Where is Austin Tice? 1. 'We believe he’s alive'

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0:30we do the things we do, and how to make better choices to help avoid costly mistakes. Each episode covers the latest research in behavioral science and dives into themes like the power of self-control, shaping your mindset for success, navigating new beginnings, and why starting over can feel so hard. Listen to choiceology at schwab.com slash podcast, or wherever you listen. This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Lost Culture East. That's with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. You know when people try a new food and suddenly it's like, okay, hold on.

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1:46The Documentary. Home of the best documentaries from the BBC World Service.

1:53Josh Baker:Hello, and welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service. I'm Josh Baker, and I want to introduce you to the podcast I host, I'm Not a Monster Presents. Series three is called Where is Austin Tice? I enter a world of fear, greed and betrayal as I uncover what really happened in one of the biggest missing person cases of our time. And I learn that there are people who don't want the truth to come out. To listen to the full series, just search for I'm Not A Monster Presents wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening.

2:34Josh Baker:Before we begin, I just want to explain that this series is an investigation into a real-life missing person case. We're in regular contact with that person's family and inform them of the content of every episode. Thanks for listening.

3:05Josh Baker:We're literally racing from room to room. We're going up another floor. Each room has kind of been ransacked. He's saying we need to look here. We just need to sweep this. Somebody tried to burn this and it didn't burn. I don't know if it's significant. Something about Lebanese intelligence. Just kidding. It's December 2024. I'm moving down the dark, narrow, windowless corridor of a Syrian intelligence facility with my colleague Sara. This is one of the most notorious and secretive buildings in Syria. And it's where we've come to get answers. I'm in a room that's been set on fire. It's so precarious.

4:02This says the Russian detainee, the German corpse, confessions, the death of number 1002. I guess that's a pregnant number.

4:16Josh Baker:We're searching for information about Austin Tice. He's an American journalist who disappeared in Syria more than a decade ago. Today, he's one of the most high-profile missing person cases in the world. If I lift this up, can you look underneath?

4:42Nothing here.

4:45Josh Baker:And this end?

4:50Josh Baker:Oh my god. Oh my god. Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Let me go quickly and try. You try. Yeah, keep looking. The keys we've just found might unlock a safe that we've been told contains answers about what happened to Austin Tice. Now, I need to see if these are the right keys. Oh, that's amazing. One more night. Yes, this is it. OK, hold on.

5:33Let me just step back a few months to the 14th of August 2024,

5:38Josh Baker:the first time I met Austin's mother. Let's see, I need 13, please. Thank you. Do you get nervous? No, I did persuasive speaking when I was in middle school. It's definitely good for mothering. You ready to go? Hey, Debra. Hey! I'm so glad you're here. I thank you all the time. Absolutely. I really appreciate it. This is Debra Tice. Today marks the 12th anniversary of Austin's disappearance. I'm following her down a corridor at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. We pass by a large poster of Austin. He's broad-shouldered, handsome, with thick, dark hair and a chiseled jaw. Then we enter a grand ballroom.

6:31Everyone, we're about to get started. If you want to start getting to your seats, Today, we recognize a major and sobering step in the long journey home for Austin Tice. Twelve years ago today, Austin was taken in Syria, where he was working as a journalist. We are joining together with Austin's friends and his family in urging the U.S. government to bring Austin home.

7:00Josh Baker:This is no ordinary gathering. There are FBI agents, members of the intelligence community and government officials. Because for more than a decade, every American president has paid attention to Austin's case. On a big screen, recorded messages start to play. There's the head of McClatchy, one of the news organisations that Austin worked for. Today marks yet another year without Austin Tice, an American journalist and veteran US Marine. who has been missing in Syria for over a decade. He's followed by Donald Trump's former national security advisor. Austin was the type of man that every dad wants her son to grow up to be like.

7:44A US Marine, a photojournalist in combat zones, a Georgetown law student, a great son, and a terrific brother.

7:53Josh Baker:And then his mother Deborah is introduced. She has this long, striking silver hair and warm, gentle smile. She's petite and quietly spoken, but exudes a strength that comes from years of refusing to give up on her son. She's a badass. She's a woman of faith. I know she's a huge inspiration to me and a huge inspiration to many. If we can welcome to the stage, Deborah Tice.

8:23Right now, I just want to speak to Austin publicly. Stay strong, Austin. Keep the faith. We have many good people working for you and praying for your release. You will walk free again. I love you. You hang in there.

8:49Josh Baker:The people here see Austin as an American hero who served in Iraq and Afghanistan, who put his life on the line to report on the civil war in Syria. As the applause dies down, I look around. Faces are still, eyes fixed on nothing. A thousand-yard stare shared by many, not least of all Deborah, whose expression seems caught between gratitude for those who've come to honour her son and the quiet, unrelenting weight of his absence.

9:28Josh Baker:The next day, I meet back up with Deborah at the National Press Club. She walks over to a grand wooden cabinet. It's got some of Austin's possessions on display. They have these shoes in it. His converse all-stars. That's all he ever wore. If you look really closely... Yeah, that's his reporter's name. Under his name, under his name, Austin Tice, where it says, if found, please contact, there's a phone number. Oh, that's your home phone number? And every now and then, someone noticed it, and they would dare to call. And they would say, are you really his mother? And, like, I'm really his mother.

10:12He wanted to be a journalist, international reporter for NPR. That was his dream. And then when he turned 18, he really was like, if I'm going to go to college, I'm going to Georgetown. And then he called them and said, well, if you don't accept me this semester, I'm going to apply again next semester. And if you don't accept me, I'm going to apply this semester after that. And I'm not going to any other college. I really think he only got in so that they could use their own phone occasionally.

10:44Josh Baker:So he's a pretty determined guy then. He has a pretty strong will, I would say. Deborah glances at the cabinet. A soft smile emerges on her face. It makes me wonder if for a moment she feels near Austin again. When was the last time you heard from Austin? In 2012. On his birthday, August 11th, we had the best face time. He must have already been in Damascus when we had that call. Austin had taken a break from his studies at Georgetown, one of the top law schools in the country. He wanted to pursue a dream of becoming a war correspondent. So he spends his summer reporting in Syria, and on his 31st birthday, he calls home to speak to Deborah.

11:39Josh Baker:After the call, Deborah leaves for a camping trip with friends and she has no phone signal. So when she emerges a week later, she calls her husband Mark to check in. Mark said, I need to talk to you. Go somewhere that you'll feel strong and that's quiet. So I found a place and I called him back and I said, So what is it? And he says, well, Austin is missing. And he's been missing for almost a week. What was going on in your head? What do we do and how do we navigate this? And then I was in the car and then I heard Austin's interview air. There's a very real security concern. You know, the Syrian government is notorious for exerting pressure on people by going after their families in really quite violent and atrocious ways.

12:40Josh Baker:So just so I understand, you've just been told your son is missing and then he comes on the radio. Yeah, we're all listening to that and kind of, I mean, talk about dystopia.

12:56I haven't seen my son since 2012. That's the last time I hugged him. I know that my son is somewhere alive.

13:08Josh Baker:Since the day Austin vanished in war-torn Syria, it's been Deborah's mission to get him home. And that means making sure he's not forgotten. And joining me now is Deborah Tice. With me now is Deborah Teiss. Austin's mom, Deborah Teiss. Mother Deborah Teiss joins us now. Deborah's campaign has been so effective. She's attracted the attention of everyone from popes to presidents. We are not CeCe, our effort to get him. Leave no stone unturned in finding Austin and bringing him home. He's disappeared off the face of the earth.

13:46Josh Baker:Despite all the resources and political power of the American government, Nobody has been able to work out what really happened to Austin Tice. I started looking into Austin's case after I saw his mother Deborah on TV. She was making this heartfelt plea for his return and she looked exhausted. It made me think about my own mom and how she'd feel if I disappeared. So I started digging. I'm an investigative journalist who spent almost a decade working in Syria. I've also worked to help evacuate people from conflict zones when they're in danger. And I have some experience looking for missing people.

14:34So I opened my contact book and spoke to everyone from senior officials

14:39Josh Baker:to people gathering information on the ground inside Syria. and eventually I get a meeting with someone who might be able to help.

14:54Josh Baker:I feel like we're walking through a postcard. Little fences, pretty flowers, great English. Yeah, it's adorable. Can you tell that I have a cold? I mean, the voice is a little bit huskier than normal. It's all right, it's a strong look. Yeah. Makes you edgy. Edgiest girl in the English countryside. It's the late summer of 2024. This is Sara Obidat. She's a Jordanian investigative journalist. We're good friends and we've worked together for a long time. And she just happens to have spent years researching the Syrian prison system. So I've asked for her help in looking into Austin's case. Together, we've come to a small village in southern England to meet a Syrian contact.

15:49Hello. How are you? Hi.

15:53Josh Baker:Good to see you. This is Salam. He's smartly dressed with thick, dark hair, and he has this restless energy. He's asked us not to use his full name because the work he does carries real risks. If he's identified, it could put him and others in danger. When were you in Syria? It was January 2013, when I left Syria. I served in the Syrian army for around 19 years. During the revolution, I defected from the army. In 2011, protests had swept across North Africa and the Middle East. Dictators fell in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. people wanted their freedom and demanded fairer societies. When the movement reached Syria, President Bashar al-Assad responded with mass imprisonment and murder, plunging the country into civil war.

16:52Josh Baker:That's what drove Salam to defect from the Syrian army and join rebel fighters. He went on to build a network that gathers intelligence on the Syrian regime. He even has sources inside Assad's security services. And for years, he's been searching for Austin Tice. I suppose there's this big question at the moment. Austin has now been missing for 12 years. Some people believe he's alive. Others think that there's no way he could possibly survive this long. It's not going to be surprising that he's still alive after 12 years. And the Assad security regime, they are smart enough to know that he's a golden egg.

17:38They are very aware of how much the Western communities cares about their citizens and how big pressure they can put on the Western governments. The instructions will be to keep him alive, to protect him, to treat him better than other prisoners. I've been told that around eight months ago, he, an American journalist, he looks like Austin, A doctor visited him because he was in a hunger strike.

18:05Josh Baker:Hold on, you heard that Austin might be alive eight months ago. That's what I heard. That's what I heard. They think that he was in a very good situation, like treated differently from the other prisoners and not in the normal prisons. So if this is true, that would be the most recent time someone has seen him alive. Can you walk me through where he might be? So he was moved to branch 235 Palestine branch, known as Palestine branch. So Salam has information that Austin might be alive, and even a location where he could be held, an intelligence base known as 235 Palestine branch. But we can't get inside Syria, so it's hard to verify if this is true.

18:58Josh Baker:Hearing this made me determined to get to the truth. Because there are many stories about Austin Tice. In some, he's held in a cell, waiting to be rescued. In others, he was smuggled out of Syria and hidden away. And in the most tragic, he died long ago. But the truth is, this isn't just a missing person story. Austin's fate has become entangled in a world of covert talk, secret deals and power struggles that are still playing out, all while his mother Deborah is left searching for answers. Following Austin's trail has taken me from the corridors of power in Washington DC to the depths of Syria's most secret intelligence facilities.

19:48Josh Baker:Along the way, I've spoken to spies, tracked down war criminals and uncovered evidence that has never been made public. And I've learnt that there are people who know what happened to Austin Tice. And some of them don't want the truth to come out. So, what really happened to Austin Tice? I'm Josh Baker, and from BBC Radio 4 and NPR's Embedded, this is Where Is Austin Tice? Series 3 of I'm Not a Monster Presents Episode 1 We believe he's alive

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