Change the Frame to Win the Game

26:26Right. And so sometimes you can see things and challenge assumptions. Like Marissa said, you're just not attached. You know, you don't feel the same sense of the domino effect of things if you were to make this change or that change. And you might be willing to consider things that are a little more unorthodox or a little more unconventional that can really lead to a breakthrough for that specific team. And I think marketing is an area where this is particularly valuable.

27:01Okay, Marissa, let's go to our final limiting belief, limiting belief number five, which is marketing means constantly pivoting and adjusting. Womp womp. Talk about that. Well, there's part of this that is true. I mean, this is kind of the truth of marketing is that you do have to continually pivot, continually grow, adjust to meet those metrics, right? But what this can end up feeling like is that there's never a bottom. There's never any kind of rest in this. And it's just you're constantly pivoting. You're constantly adjusting. And it can feel exhausting. And I think that this is, you know, certainly true in certain seasons within business.

27:46You know, I've seen this feel really, really true in certain seasons. And then in others, it feels like you're just kind of grooving and flowing. And it's not as challenging. challenging. But I think that, you know, within our marketing team, I think that the way that I try to really frame this for our team is rather than it's just about constantly pivoting and adjusting and, you know, we're never going to rest. I really try to go in with the kind of mindset. And I think we get this from our dad, which is an experimental mindset, which is really about trying different things on, seeing what works, seeing what doesn't work, seeing how we can adjust going forward.

28:28Today within our marketing team meeting, we did an after action review, which is a process that we have as a company that goes back and we look at whatever project or experience we just went through and really helps us kind of distill down what worked and what didn't work and kind of how we want to adjust going forward. And I think for me, when I've seen the best transformation or pivots happen and, you know, the best results that come out of that is really when I involve our team. And if I'm just the one, you know, calling the shots all the time and saying, well, we need to pivot, we need to do this and that, you know, and they're not really connected to those pivots or they don't have that personal buy-in, then it can feel more challenging and more like, oh, we're never able to just rest, But when I can kind of get their buy-in, it feels like it's a joint effort.

29:19We're all in this together working towards these results. And we all have ownership versus I'm just the dictator over here calling the shots. And so, yeah, I think that this is real and it's normal again. And it is true. Part of this is true. Um, but I think to me, kind of the liberating truth is, you know, that marketing, um, means that we get to constantly test new things out. You know, Marissa, while you were talking, one of the things that I thought of that is kind of cool is that marketing is not a perfectionistic sport. Okay. Like that's kind of a liberating truth all by itself. I mean, it's always open to growth and learning and optimization and it's dynamic and it's collaborative.

30:05And there's so many great things about marketing that, for example, are not true about a discipline like finance. I mean, you really, you really don't want like, that's where you want your perfectionist. It's like surgery, you know, you really want to get it right. The first time, because, you know, a lot is at stake in a different way. In marketing, you don't have to have the pressure of doing it perfectly right out of the gate, because there's so many levers that you can adjust and, and kind of fiddle with. And it's very empowering, like like you were saying, for the members of the team, even at the individual contributor level, to suggest changes, to make changes and to take initiative, this does not have to be top down.

30:44And I think while this is probably not an area for somebody who doesn't like change, you know, those people are better suited for other areas in a business. I think that it's really about how you think about the change. And if you think about it as being exhausting or empowering. And I think the truth is, the liberating truth is, it really is exciting and empowering.

31:11Okay, so let me review the five limiting beliefs that we've talked about today that marketers often feel. Limiting belief number one is that marketing is only about the metrics. And the liberating belief that we talked or liberating truth that we talked about is that it's really about transformation, that marketing makes transformation for our clients and customers possible. The second limiting belief is that we've hit the ceiling on our success. And the liberating truth is something like there's always another level of success that's possible with different strategies and tactics. The third limiting belief is that the only way to market is to be salesy and sleazy.

31:49But the liberating truth is that when we market authentically, we attract the right customers and clients. The fourth limiting belief is that there's only one way to get leads. In our case, we used to think that was webinars. But the liberating truth is that there are many ways to get leads. And one of the best that we've found is fill in the blank, whatever it is for you, meaning there's always opportunity for something else. And then lastly, that marketing means constantly pivoting and adjusting. And I think the liberating truth there is that marketing is not a perfectionistic sport. There's always opportunities to optimize and improve, which is very empowering.

32:29Well, Marissa, thank you so much for joining me today. I personally feel like I've learned a lot and I hope that our business owners and leaders who are listening today feel like they have a new toolbox to go coach their marketing people, their marketing teams with that's really going to unlock some results that they haven't experienced so far. Well, thank you for having me on. It was a pleasure as always.

32:55Of those five limiting beliefs, one that I feel comes up a lot for a lot of people, I've certainly seen this, is that the only way to market is to be salesy and sleazy. And here's the problem. When we feel like we are selling from our heels, we are never going to be as successful as we might otherwise be. because we're walking into the world basically apologizing for the good things that we are offering the world.

33:23The reality is if we can walk into a sales context confident that what we're offering the world will benefit anybody that purchases it, we will be able to sell all that more confidently and, of course, all that more successfully.

33:42Next, after the break, we'll hear how limiting beliefs are affecting your human resources and operations.

34:02Aaron Perry is our chief experience officer here at Full Focus. And the truth is, that's a tricky job. Whenever I think of HR, I think of the line from Thornton Wilder's play, Our Town, wherever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense. And the reality is, as true as that is, it's also false. And the hardest thing about being in HR is to somehow not be cynical or naive. That's a real challenge. The only way to be in that headspace is to be real about humans. And that means avoiding limiting beliefs. That's why I'm so excited about this conversation, because Megan and Aaron are going to chat now about how limiting beliefs show up in HR and operations and what to do about it.

34:48Well, I'm excited to continue this conversation about how we as business owners and leaders can help coach and guide our teams to higher levels of performance. And, you know, this is an area where this really shows up is with our team, with our people as a whole, with our our company. And the reality is that people, as we believe at Full Focus, are our greatest asset. I mean, certainly they're probably the biggest expense in your business. I know they are at Full Focus. And because of that, we want to steward them well. And we put a lot of stock in our HR team and how we care for our employees.

35:30and all of that. But one of the things, just like on the marketing side that can happen on the HR side, the ops side, is that there can be a host of limiting beliefs that creep in that can make that HR team less effective at building and developing the kind of team that can perform at the highest level. So we're going to talk today about five typical limiting beliefs about HR and operations that we see all the time with our clients, with our customers, and how you can really swap those for liberating truths that will help you better align the way you're caring for your employees, the way your HR team is caring for those employees and building the team with the goals that you have as a company.

36:17So today I'm joined by Erin Perry, who's our chief experience officer. She's been with me before on the podcast, of course. She oversees both our client customer experiences, but also our employee experiences, including operations and HR. So Erin, I'm so glad that you're here today to talk about all this. Thanks, Meg. I'm super excited to be on again and excited to talk about this topic. Yeah, yeah. This is going to be really fun. Okay, well, let's talk about the first limiting belief, which is that HR and ops only care about the employer and not the employees. Do you find that this is something that HR and operations teams often feel is true?

36:59Yeah, you know, I have seen a lot of HR people that come into an organization and because of their past experience, they lean more towards siding with the employer and they forget that part of their charge is actually to be the bridge that connects the employees to the company and the ownership and, you know, the executive suite. And so ultimately finding that balance, I think is really important. And if you're out of balance, it leads to people feeling like they can't trust HR or operations teams because they're not really going to listen to me. They're not really going to take into account the things that I am caring about.

37:45They're not really listening becomes a part of the narrative. And so I think the other side of the coin, in the liberating truth is good HR and ops teams are that bridge and that connecting piece between the company and its employees. And that's how you steward great culture. I love this because what you didn't say is great HR and ops teams prioritize the employers over the company. I mean, I think you're really finding that third way is a liberating truth, Because if you prioritize the company always over the employees or vice versa, those binary options are going to lead to problems. Right. And so if you can find the third option, which is this bridge idea, which I love that, then it really becomes win win because that's what we want.

38:38I mean, we want the employees to win when the company wins and vice versa. We want every everybody on the same side of the table, as my dad often says. And so it's almost like this limiting belief is really more about that the company is preeminent over the employees. You know, that's kind of that binary option. Really, what you're saying is the bridge is the right path forward. I love that.

39:10Okay, so the second limiting belief is that HR and ops only care about the employees and they don't understand the needs of the business. So talk about that a little bit. Yeah, it's the exact opposite of what we just talked about. And honestly, a lot of times I find this comes in the form of an overcorrection, right? Somebody's received feedback that they're not caring about the needs of the employees. And so they over course correct and start caring so much and advocating so much for the needs of the employees that they forget that there's a whole business attached to this. And even something as simple as your recommendations have got to consider the needs of the business?

39:55Is it feasible? Is it affordable? You know, all of those questions. And so that puts the business owners in a weird position of kind of having the HR team in between them and the employees. When again, that idea of the bridge here really is the liberating truth for both of these. Your best HR teams should always be thinking about what's the third way? How can I align to the needs of the business and steward the employees in a way that they feel prioritized? I love this because certainly at different points in our history and my professional history, I've seen this kind of swing in different directions.

40:38And you're right. It really is problematic. I think sometimes this happens if somebody's come out of like a big corporate environment that was a negative experience. And now they're in a small business context and, you know, they're just going to kind of do it right, you know, so to speak, in air quotes. But I love that there, again, is a win-win solution with the bridge. And I think part of what's important as the business owner when you're dealing with your HR team, I know I spent a lot of time with you, Aaron, with our HR team, because people are so central to our business. and there are always opportunities and challenges there that we're dealing with and, you know, thinking through, I think it's important for you to set the pace as a business owner here about what your expectations are, that you expect the third option, that you expect this kind of bridge, that that's how you want to think about it.

41:27Because everybody comes to their role or their team with baggage from their past. And they're probably going to swing in one or the other of these directions of these first two limiting beliefs. And as a business owner, you have the opportunity of being the one to say, okay, but at full focus, this is how we're going to think about it. And this is how I want you to think about your solutions and your behavior and our culture and all of that. And that's a really powerful contribution that you can make as the business owner or the leader to your HR and ops team. The marriage of those two, and if your HR and ops team can take the lead there that tends to set culture across your organization and builds in that expectation of behavior.

42:19Okay, so the third limiting belief is that HR and ops don't strategically or meaningfully contribute to the vision of the company. Okay, talk about this one. Yeah, I think it's a really easy trap to fall into where if you're working in HR and ops, you're not bringing in revenue, you're not developing new products, you know, you're doing less exciting things. And that trap of feeling like, am I contributing to the meaningful parts of the vision starts to creep in? And it really, if you take that train too far down the tracks, you feel like you're a drag on the business and you start to wonder about your contribution.

43:04And I think, you know, what we've learned and certainly I've seen in a majority of companies is if you don't have a good HR and operational foundation, then you can't actually get to the vision. You can't actually live out everything that you want to live out. And so finding that foundation and where is your place and how do you meaningfully contribute by way of things like great processes, great systems, you know, all of those things that can help to build upon that vision and make it a reality and make it reachable, I think is the liberating truth. It's a huge component of the vision and really should be the center that keeps everything else moving forward.

43:53I love that. You've really brought that vision to our team for the contribution of HR and ops. And I think that has been hugely beneficial for us. And I think kind of like what we were talking about with Marissa earlier, in one of the limiting beliefs we were talking about, and I think it was the first one, you know, that idea that marketing is just all about the metrics. It's kind of like similar in this way where it can almost feel transactional. And, you know, you're doing benefits administration, you're coming up with project management systems, you're, you know, documenting SOPs or thinking about the tech stack or whatever, all those kinds of things.

44:30And it can seem far away from the vision. And part of the unique role of the business owner, the team leader, et cetera, is to remind that team of what an incredible and important contribution they're making to the vision and how uniquely the work that they do paves the way for the vision that we're headed towards. So I think that's easy to underestimate, but critically important to help the folks on these teams have longevity and a sense of significance and meaning in their work.

45:10Okay, so let's go on to the fourth limiting belief that the job of HR and ops is primarily firefighting in the moment. Okay, talk about that, Erin. Hey, listen, first of all, HR and ops teams will know that this is true. We're all great firefighters, otherwise we wouldn't be here. And that is a part of the job and you'll never get around it. But great HR teams don't get stuck in thinking, hey, I'm just a firefighter. I'm just responding. They are more proactive in their approach. So they're looking for the train long before it comes down the tracks and they're trying to proactively solve the problem before it's an actual problem, right?

45:53And so there's risk management involved in that. There's, you know, getting enough out in front of issues and strategically planning your work in order to be able to achieve that. But I think the liberating truth is you're more than just a firefighter. You can be proactive in your approach to problems and you can have the agency to affect real change across the organization if you can proactively problem solve, if you can find trends even in the problems. And how can you put that together? And instead of putting people on the problem, put a system on the problem, put an automation on the problem.

46:34So I think another version of a liberating truth here is that the firefighting makes it possible for the rest of the business to continue running and growing without getting bogged down and coming to a screeching halt. So So I think even in those seasons where you are firefighting, it's so purposeful and important. It's important to not minimize that or diminish even that part of it. Erin, you know what came to my mind as you were talking? I was thinking back to 2020 and how we have jokingly said that you and I were a health department of two there for several months. And it was actually longer than several months.

47:13We thought maybe it would be a few weeks, but it turned out to be much, much longer than we had anticipated. But even in that season of firefighting, which, you know, neither of us would willingly choose that job again, that enabled our business to continue to grow, to grow profitably, for us to continue to serve our clients, for us to keep people employed, all of those things. And if we hadn't been able to find a way to safely continue to work and manage the risk that we were facing, which did feel like firefighting for a season, you know, it would have had a very detrimental effect on our employees and on the business as a whole and certainly on our clients.

47:51And so there will be periods where the majority of the work of an HR or ops team is firefighting. I think that's not the goal for sure to have that be longer than it needs to be. But even in those periods, there's real purpose and a very important contribution that only the HR and ops team can make to the business during that that enables the rest of the business to continue to function and even grow and expand. And so, again, the business owner or the leader has the opportunity to remind the team of that when it can feel just like hand to hand combat. It's actually more than that. And its purpose is incredibly valuable.

48:34Okay, so let's go on to the fifth and final limiting belief, which is that HR and ops is all about creating and enforcing all the rules. This is one that, I mean, I think most people, this pops into their mind when they think of HR especially. Yeah, totally. And listen, HR people and operations people think that about themselves. And so that's part of the danger here. If you are a very process-oriented person, which most HR and operational people are, then you're constantly thinking about how can I mitigate risk through rules? How can I, you know, standardize things through process and rules? And you create lots of them.

49:14And that's an important part of the job. However, that can feel to an employee like, ooh, they are handcuffing me. And that can feel like a business owner to, ooh, I'm being handcuffed and I can't do the things that I want to do. The liberating truth in that is while certainly there needs to be rules and process, that those can be flexible. They don't have to be either or, black and white. There's a lot more living in the gray that should be done by HR teams and operational teams to come to the right kinds of rules and processes. And I think that's the really important piece. You don't want to have this cumbersome, overly bureaucratic process or rule that no one's going to follow and people are just going to veto by inaction anyway.

50:07Yeah. You know, Erin, it reminds me what my coach, Les McKeown, often says, which is some version of that the right kind and amount of process actually creates freedom in a business. You know, it frees us up to do our best work. And I think that is really exciting. And that reframes HR and operations in a way that I think we can all wrap our head around and get on board with. Rather than an antagonistic relationship, it really can become a partnership. And that's, I think, something that I've expanded in my own thinking in the last couple of years. And it actually makes me excited about and value HR and ops in a different way, because they're so critical to the things that I want to do with our business in terms of our vision over the long term.

50:58It's not possible without the right kind and the right amount of process involved. Otherwise, you know, we can't hold the weight of what we're building. And so it's really a symbiotic partnership when it's done well. Totally. I think, Meg, the right question to be asking if you're on an HR or ops team is how can I make this possible? Not how can I not make this possible? So it really, if you approach this with a possibility mindset, there's usually always a way to make what someone's dreamed up happen with a few little tweaks and a few little, you know, process things put in place.

51:45Okay, so let me just review these limiting beliefs here that are often held by HR and ops teams. The first one is that HR and ops only care about the company's interests and not that of the employees. And Aaron's liberating truth is that HR and ops functions best when it's a bridge that finds win-win solutions between the company and the employees. The second limiting belief is that HR and ops only care about the employees and deprioritizes the needs of the business. And the liberating truth there is exactly the same. The best HR and ops teams are a bridge for win-win solutions between the company and its employees.

52:31The third limiting belief is that HR and ops don't think strategically or rather that HR and ops don't strategically or meaningfully contribute to the vision. And the liberating truth is really that HR and ops clear the path for the vision. So that's a great opportunity as a business owner for you to remind the team of that and really elevate their work in that way. The fourth limiting belief is that the job of HR and ops is primarily firefighting in the moment. And the liberating truth is that the best HR and ops teams are thinking three steps ahead and planning for that. And also that even in the firefighting, they're making it possible for the business to continue to operate in an uninterrupted way.

53:16And then lastly, the fifth limiting belief is that HR and ops is all about creating and enforcing all the rules. And the liberating truth, as my coach Les McEwen says, is that the right kinds and amount of process actually create freedom. All right. Well, Erin, thank you so much for joining me today. I don't know about our listeners, but I suspect this is true for them also, that I've really gotten an expanded and exciting view of the role of HR and ops within the realization of a vision of a company. And I'm so glad for your leadership at Full Focus and for how you're sharing that with our listeners today.

53:57So thanks again for being here. Thanks, Meg. Really appreciate it.

54:05Let's go back to Erin's third point, that HR and ops doesn't really strategically or meaningfully contribute to the vision. We know that's false. HR and ops can impact the vision at an incredible level. In fact, without HR and ops working in concert with the vision, my guess is you never reach it. The reason we started with confidence is recognizing that the way we see a situation affects how we perform in that situation. When we walk into a setting feeling unprepared, feeling like we can't prevail, we're likely not to prevail. Yet, if we walk into that same setting feeling confident that we can prevail, our chances of doing so are greater.

54:49And that is especially important as we're thinking about goal setting in this coming year and then achieving those goals. If marketing and HR and ops are coming into the new year with their hands tied behind their backs with limiting beliefs, reaching those goals is going to be basically impossible. If instead they can be empowered with liberating truths, they can approach any situation they're facing with greater confidence and more effectiveness. And that's the difference between failure to reach your goals and going all the way to the finish line.

55:35that's it for this episode of the business accelerator podcast if you're a business owner and you're interested in learning more about our business accelerator coaching program go to businessaccelerator.com we help successful but overwhelmed small business owners just like you scale yourself and your business so you can win at work and succeed at life. It's what we call the double win. And if you don't think that's for you, I think that might just be a limiting belief. If you'd like to experience a liberating truth for yourself, go to businessaccelerator.com. And that's a wrap. We'll be back next week with more conversations to help accelerate your business.

56:21Thank you.