HENRY CLOUD: How to Arrive at Your Desired Future

26:24This is what we do with a family to get them in the van to get to school on time. Everybody's got a role. You've got to do this by this time, and then we can all get in the van and love each other. But if they don't, somebody's running upstairs going, you need to get your teeth, but you need to get you, you, you, you, you. and it just breaks out. One area where this gets a little bit tricky is back to talent for a minute. If you don't have the ability to do this project management stuff on your own, you're going to need somebody to step in and do it. But then there's possibly this disconnect between the visionary and the people in the weeds, like you said earlier, because they don't appreciate that somehow or another those people in the weeds actually do need to navigate all those fine points, get from gate to gate.

27:09You've hit on such a breakdown that's important. The visionary wants to know, why am I finished? Why aren't we hitting our number? And they want to get there. They're doers. And many times they don't appreciate what's involved in pulling off what they've asked somebody to do. But this is where some constructs, like I talked a lot about this in the accountability section and the way great leaders do it. This is where when you get a team together and they're looking at what's going to happen, and each part really understands what the implications of what they're doing are for the other department.

27:51And then they begin to appreciate and they begin to do it in a way. I remember a big tech company I worked with that had a product launch and absolutely botched it. And so I went in, and we're going to do a postmortem on this, because you can't let this happen. You know, it's the kind of thing you read about in the papers. So we're going through it, and what actually happened was R &D has to make this stuff, right? Well, the sales team, the CEO was driving these numbers, and they had to meet these numbers. The sales team is out there with customers, and the customers say, well, will it be able to do this?

28:33Sure, we can build that into it. That's not a problem. And they're making promises that they don't feel the pain of having to execute that. And so they come back and tell our dude, we can't do that by April. In fact, we can't even do both of those. They conflict and et cetera, et cetera. And so that's where this team of building in these constructs, we call it psychological safety, which is not softness or niceness. It's creating a culture where the truth can come out. and the trust dynamic of helping each other to accomplish this. What you've hit on is so important because we don't understand how hard something we love may be for somebody that's got to actually do it.

29:17And sometimes they get in there and it's not as hard as they're bellyaching about. You know, you got a lot of people that want to slow everything down for 8 ,000 reasons, but it's only in that connected environment that you can figure that out. If my body, again, my body tells me to walk across the room, let's say I've got a little bit of a, let's say I've got a splinter in my toe. My head wants to run, but as soon as I step on it, what happens? My whole system begins to send a message to the CEO. You can't push that hard. We got to slow down and do what? fix this problem first if you're going to run this is why i love having a little model that everybody can see how all this works together and then it's like i use the example of what car young called synergy where it takes on a magic that's bigger than the sum of the parts and like an nba player you know we watch jordan flying through the air doing these acrobatics and all this well Well, he didn't plan that in terms of, he didn't know his arm was going to be doing that.

30:33His torso was going to be doing this. But the vision was there and your body becomes synergistically working together where it accomplished some stuff that you didn't know how that happened. Yeah. This is more of a curiosity than anything, but it goes to strategy. On Sunday, Gail and I decided that we were going to try In-N-Out Burger. They just came to Franklin where we live. in fact, they moved their corporate headquarters here now. You lived in California, L.A., for I think most of your life, except for growing up in Mississippi. For everything after college. So, you know, you were - I mean, it's only been five years, but, you know, everything after college.

31:08But you were familiar with In-N-Out Burger because it was a phenomenon on the West Coast. And so we went at about 1 o 'clock. We thought, let's get the - We'd heard the crowds were long, and we thought, we'll just wait for lunch to get over, and then we'll go and eat late lunch. And we got there. and the cars were unbelievable how many people were in line. We asked the guy that was directing traffic, how long is the wait? He said, probably 45 to 50 minutes. We said, well, that's not happening. So we went home. We came back that night and it was a 30 minute wait. So we thought, okay, well, let's try it.

31:41Now, I'd like to know what is the strategy that makes that work? Because I've had a lot better burgers at other places. I know it's good. I've had better French fries at other places. but what's the strategy that they're employing that makes them so successful? I'm not inside that company, so I don't know how they really thought about it. But looking at it from the outside, part of it is there's an emotional connection to that brand. Now, you have a strategy to be able to build that. But over the years, there's been this emotional connection. And I've had people visit me in L.A. from other parts of the country.

32:30They go, what do you want to do when you're here? And they go, I've got to go to NNL. I go, seriously? That's where you want to go? All of L.A.'s food scene? There's some kind of an emotional connection. And then what also happens is when you go in there, compared to other burger chains, it feels good. They don't let you down between your expectation and what they deliver. They're friendly. It just goes well. And so it's a little bit, people are on a little bit of a drug trip about how, you know, it's like the oxytocin in falling in love is you don't see his or her faults. Let's run to the altar, right?

33:16And you'll wait on her, right? Give her time to go get rid of the old boyfriend that keeps coming around. But there's an emotional connection to this. And great companies are able to do two things. They're able to build that, but you can't build it with crap. You really have to deliver on the expectation. And then what you do is you exceed it. And I think that's part of it without knowing. But it's a good thing to have. I mean, Apple's a lot like that. That's true. You know, you're in love with this stuff. And, I mean, there's other platforms that can do a lot more, really, and other phones that can do a lot more.

34:06But then they have another strategy where now you're locked in. Yes. You're in this ecosystem. It's hard to get a divorce because you've got a family. And smart people figure this out. Now, when you were talking about the strategy, there's one nuance in here that I made it somewhat a linear process because it is. But there is some time, you know, I've been engaging the talent in this strategy. There are times when the strategy will dictate what talent you bring on. And so that's kind of a little bit of a merry-go-round. but actually what happens is most times it's very rare that a strategy is developed in one person's head you know they kind of know where it's going and know how they want to win this and the other but generally you know they got a few really smart people around either on a team or wherever and the strategy emerges but what's going to happen is that's a merry-go-round because sometimes you'll realize I don't have the talent.

35:16You know, like Brady said, I got to bring them in the strategy first. I mean, he's a quarterback. We're going to win by throwing football, right? And so you got to bring on the talent to execute that strategy. But that's always true. I've gone in companies that are, our new strategies, we're moving to digital. And I look around the executive team and I go, so who's the IT leader? And they go, oh, yeah, he reports to the CFO. And he's like two or three. levels down. I go, you're putting your whole business in a strategy of digital and you don't have the digital person at the table? Really? And so our strategy is dictating doing something different with the talent.

36:00And then the flip side is true too. And so sometimes we're in a strategy and we need to bring on more talent and sometimes we need more talent to come up with the right stretch. I want you to talk about Weight Watchers a little bit because I think this is one thing leaders sometimes don't understand. And that is that some leaders might be too quick to give up on the vision when what they really need is a change in strategy. If the strategy isn't working, you need to come up with a different strategy and the strategy is only as good as long as it works. Right? Look at Michael Dell. Yeah. I mean, he built the most incredible company out of a dorm room with the strategy was on cost.

36:37He's going to beat everybody on cost. How? By buying these parts and assembling them and cutting out all of that middle stuff and going direct like ikea i mean you got to assemble it but it's cheaper and that's that was a strategy when all when parts got commoditized to your point everybody could get these parts cheaper roll it 10 what 15 years later they changed their whole strategy to services and other stuff you're exactly right. Tell the story a little bit about Weight Watchers because they had the exact right strategy until they didn't. What was involved there? Well, their strategy was anchored in some very, very real good things that to lose weight, I just lost just, I say just, I've lost because I was sitting in a wheelchair for three years and not moving and all that weight, no three different big surgeries, and I gained 30-something pounds.

37:35And I've lost it. I've lost that now. So people go, how'd you do it? And I said, kind of the George Foreman diet is the way I did it. And they said, what's that? If you remember, Foreman lost, I don't know how much it was. Was it 150 pounds? It was a huge amount of weight. And I saw him on an interview one time. He said, how'd you do it? He said, well, I just had to learn something that I didn't know. And they said, what was that? He said, you can't eat everything you want. Okay. What Weight Watchers did was everybody knows you can't out-exercise your diet, right? And there's other stuff for some people, hormones, blah, blah, blah.

38:15But most of this is how much we're doing this, right? Or a lot of it. So everybody knows that. But how do you have a strategy that's going to actually enable people to do that when they've never been able to do it before. And what they did was they anchored it in known behavior change. So we build new neurological patterns, about four factors. That's how wiring gets built, new wiring that we don't have. There's an awareness of what we've got to do. In real time, you've got to be prompted to see, oh, Tiger, make sure you swing it this way, not that way. And then once you're aware of it in real time, then you have to deliberately practice the new one, the new behavior.

39:03And all of that has got to be threaded with interpersonal relational support to get the new wiring to lie down. So what they did was they built a program, awareness. You got to learn about how points work. And then in real time through the week, there's got to be focused attention that brings that to mind. And then you got to deliberately practice the new behavior. We're going to start counting this and there's accountability and all of that and there's relational support and then they meet in a group they built a very very good system and all the research showed back in the day they got better results than they might great strategy until you could get way watchers in a syringe ozempic and all these drugs hit now not that the other stuff still isn't important but you can kind of trick the body into doing a lot of that for you.

39:59And so at the time of the writing, which was just, you know, the book's about to come out or it is out now, I guess. And so however many months ago, I think Weight Watchers stock was down, was it 80 %? 80%, yeah. And I think what I said was I don't know a lot about Weight Watchers, but somebody's sitting at a room right now thinking we got to change our strategy. I mean, Michael, you lived through this in publishing. Yeah. The strategy used to be, gosh, get these bookstore owners in love with your books and let them know about them. Because the strategy is to get people in there and these bookstores can lead them right to the book that's going to answer their question.

40:41And we have this community and all of this. And all of a sudden, you can go online and order it, have it to all, and not go to a bookstore. It's a different world. It was pile high and watch them fly in the old days. And then that turned into returns. Yep, that's right. It didn't work. And remember book signings? I mean, as an author. Oh, my gosh. And you do all these book signings. Well, I don't know if anybody even does this. I know that's a cool thing. I think if you're like Taylor Swift or something, and if you do a book signing, I don't think the strategy is what's going on in that store.

41:15strategy becomes such an event that you've caused so much awareness. That's probably how it works.

41:28What about Eleven Madison Park? Because this is a great story about strategy in the book and how by not competing in the way that their competitors were competing, they completely changed the whole game. If you don't know that story, Eleven Madison Park was a restaurant in New York. And there's this group, the top 50 restaurants in the world. And you get all the Michelin stuff and all that. And they have this big awards event. But when you get named in the top 50, you go to the event and you don't know what number you are. You might've been number one You know, who knows? But they call him off up to the stage from number 50.

42:15And so Will Gadara was the owner and the guy that ran it. And he made the top 50. And he gets there. He says, wonder how high we are in all this. Number 50, 11. And he goes, oh, well, great. Something. But then he started thinking, how do you get to number one? Okay, we're a restaurant. Every piece of food in every one of those 50 restaurants is probably beyond perfect. How do you differentiate yourself and become better? How does number 27 become better than number 18 next year by food? And my worst idea is this is sort of a fool's errand, right? And he started to think, there's got to be a different strategy.

43:09So what he came up with was, back to the emotional experiences we talked about, he was going to do it by what he termed unreasonable hospitality. Now we get to strategy and a plan. Unreasonable hospitality was going to give that person an experience that they could not believe this happened. And that would create such a connection. with this restaurant. So what he did, strategy and a plan, get the talent. He created a new talent position. I think it was called the dream maker. And the dream makers, one or two or three, I guess, would be in the restaurant on call. And the plan, the servers, in getting to know the table, getting to talking to them, overhearing their conversations, something would happen at that table, they would take that something, give it to the dream maker who would then go make it happen, an example or two.

44:13This guy comes in, the server over here, I can't believe I've been in New York three days. And I mean, this is a great meal, but I never got a street hot dog. How can I leave it in the morning? How can it? They go out on the street, they buy the street hot dogs, they bring them in, they serve it in a silver platter. The guy doesn't know it's here and they He put it before me. He reached out, and there's this hot dog. And the chef had cut him up with all this. Another example, they heard this couple say that, they said, how long have you been in Newark? Well, we're just not even supposed to be here because we were flying to the Caribbean for this anniversary beach vacation that we've been longing for, and our flights are all canceled, and now we're, you know, who knows if it's going to work.

44:59Toss it to the Dream Maker. What the Dream Maker does, goes out, figures out how they did this, probably down the street in New York. They bought a blow-up swimming pool, and they got a bunch of sand from somewhere, another room in the restaurant. They brought in all these plants and everything. They created a beach with however they knew what music people like. They created a beach with a private table and gave them their tropical dinner. And it's just a million stories like that. But it's got a strategy and a plan and talent, and everybody knows their role. And that's how it works. How are you going to win?

45:49And then how is that going to get executed? I met Will a couple of years ago at an event, and we got to talking. We had a lot in common. And he said, we're going to get together. And I go, where do you live? He said, Nashville. I just moved to Nashville. I said, I did too. Where? And he told me, he's my neighbor. And so, you know, we've gotten to know them. And here's what's really funny. So we go out to dinner. If you go to a nice restaurant with Will now because of who he is, it's like going into a guitar store with Elvis. I mean, the managers, the servings, but he's created a real thing about hospitality.

46:34And now a lot of industries are flocking to him for training and his people. And it's really great. We've got to know him a little bit too. And we've had him on this show. And funny story was, he said, you know, people are often afraid to invite my wife and I, his wife's an amazing chef too, invite us over for dinner. Well, she started Milk Bar. Yeah. That's her chain. So they're intimidated to invite us over for dinner. And I have to tell them, I say, look, we're not getting together for the food. I mean, if I wanted to find amazing food, I could find it anywhere. But we're coming for the connection with you.

47:11And that's what's important to us. I thought that was really beautiful. Okay, I want to talk about accountability. That's your fourth kind of component here. and I don't want to miss that because it does scare people. I mean, it's one of the worst words in people's limbic system. As soon as you hear the word accountability, you know, it's like, because everybody's had experiences, right? Or I always think of it, everybody's seen this on C-SPAN or something. The senator's up there pounding the, somebody's going to be held accountable for this. And it means you're going to get punished, right? You're going to get whatever.

47:47And that's what it means to a lot of people. that's been their experience, you know, whether a parent or an authority figure or a boss or whoever. And so the first thing to realize is nothing happens without accountability. Nothing. What is basic accountability? The word actually means, the etymology means to answer to a trust. So we're in this thing together, and this is your role, this is my role, and we're trusting each other to do what our part is to make this happen. It's a very positive thing. Your body, back to the body, one of the most basic measurement accountability systems that keeps you alive is your immune system.

48:32It's always measuring our things like they're supposed to be, but if something there's a problem it immediately addresses that and it has different levels of accountability your saliva first and then your stomach acid if it's a bigger problem and then if it gets through and actually something there the marker cells really interesting in your immune system marker cells go to that bacteria and put up a sign it says you know ebola some country 1948 here's a genetic code we understand the problem so everybody knows this is a problem and then the t-cells the team come around and contain it that's what great accountability systems do for us the first thing i do with teams about this is okay what comes to mind when you when i say the word accountability you see the you know whatever and i put up two charts and two flip charts okay i want everybody to tell me what happened when you've had a bad experience of accountability what what What happened in that dynamic?

49:34And we put all those right. Well, it was hard, sure. You know, they never told me what they were expecting anyway. And then they came down to me or didn't talk to them for six months. And, you know, there's all these reasons. Okay, let's get all those down. Now, tell me a time when somebody had a good accountability relationship and it really helps you. What happened in that relationship? We put those things up there. Then I kind of, you know, group them together. Really, these three are talking about this. And you get three or four behavioral anchors. And I go, look, team, this is how you're going to do accountability.

50:03We're not going to do these bad things, and we are going to do these good things. Same thing Alan Mulally did when he went back to Ford. And his accountability, every Thursday morning, had an accountability structure and made it a very positive thing. But he had behavioral rules about respecting each other and helping each other in all this. So you've got to get it positive first, because then everybody's brain's going to be working right. But we don't realize how key this is and positive to getting there. And one of the examples I use is if you're a pilot, okay, and you're flying an airliner from L.A.

50:39to New York, you have a vision. You've engaged the talent. You've got a copilot. You've got the navigator. You've got all that. You've got a strategy. The strategy is, well, we're going to fly. But there's a plan, a flight plan, 40 ,000 feet, 540 knots, certain heading. There's your plan. The next thing that happens, you've got measurement and accountability to the plan. A pilot would never take off without her accountability partners. Now, the first one is our instrument panel asking the question, according to the flight plan, are we doing what we said we were going to do that's going to get us there?

51:2640 ,000 feet. Fine. She dips down, wins or whatever. She's at 38 ,000. Gets feedback. Beep, beep, beep, beep. Plan shows 40, 38, please, you know, correct. In her head, she goes, oh, good night. Thanks. Thanks. Why? Because I'm burning too much fuel at 38 ,000 feet. I'm like, you know, we can't do that. Quickly fixes and adapts, all right? If it doesn't happen then, her next accountability relationship, the regional tower, United 721, flight plan shows this heading. You're actually headed at whatever. Oh, gosh, you're right. You know, sorry, I got distracted up here with an equipment thing. You know, it helps you get there.

52:11And that's how individuals and teams must see accountability. You're my best friend. If I'm very not, please tell me. You know, I wrote a book called Necessary Endings with three kinds of people. There's wise people, foolish people, and evil people. And the wise people are ones that the book of Proverbs says, correct a wise person and they will get wiser still. They'll get better. They'll get back on track if you correct me. Correct a fool actually says don't correct a fool because they'll hate you. They'll cast insults upon you, you know, defensive. And what if that happens in accountability?

52:48You're 38 ,000. Oh, shut up. I know what I'm doing. Well, we know where that is. It's the best thing ever. But we've had such bad experiences. And then I actually divided that part of the book into two sections, accountability and how it works. But the second one is having the accountability conversation, because how we do this actually loads on brain functioning and whether people will be able to use it and execute it or not. And that's the big deal. A lot of people don't do it well, but a lot do. So good. One of the phrases you used in the book is that it's partner work, not police work, which seems like a really simple but great mnemonic for remembering the two different types of ways this might show up for people.

53:32Another thing that I said there was we think of it rear view mirror only, you know, looking back to what somebody did last week or what they did in the quarter, whatever the cadence is. But it's really forward looking because we're seeing what we're doing and what we did last week. And if we keep doing that, we're going to end up over here, not where we want to go. And again, it all ties back to our vision is what holds us accountable, really. What we're doing, though, knowing I'm going to get to the other side of the room is not going to correct my activities unless I take that future reality and move it back to the present.

54:15We're actually going to actually do something that's going to affect the future reality. And that's why, you know, I've heard you talk before about write your obituary. What do you want that to say? Well, people can't just write their obituary. They think, oh, that's what I'm going to do. Then what you have them do is you work that date back to what have you got to be doing today to make that happen. And that's what accountability does. It's a very positive thing, but we got to get in people's heads where it feels that way. We don't have time to fully get into it. We're about out of time, as I knew this would happen.

54:53But adaptability. It's your fault, always. I know, it's always my fault. But the adaptability component really flows naturally out of the accountability. It either flows naturally or it doesn't because of our issues. Well, say more about that. I mean, we're talking about like, if you don't fix it, it ain't going to happen. So what's the breakdown there? Well, a lot of times it may be very uncomfortable to go fix it. What if you're conflict-aboidant? That's going to require a hard conversation. This human tendency of avoiding negative realities is as deep as anything. Why do people know they've got three things they have to do today, but they scroll instead?

55:38Or they go to the cognitive machine. Because sometimes there's two things. One, some people are wired for more immediate gratification than delayed gratification. And that's got to be worked on. But there's another part of this is that if there's a problem, that by definition activates certain kinds of stress, right? And stress kind of fight or flight. We're going to go in and scream at somebody about the problem. That's the fight. Or we're going to avoid it. And go work on something we really like. Or we'll minimize it. A lot of times we minimize it. We can't do this. One of the examples I use in the book was I'm a boat addict.

56:20I've loved boats my whole life. And yes, I had the little better is, little bigger is better disease. And the first time I got a boat, I lived in LA for a long time. So I moved from lakes to the ocean. And the first time I got a boat, it was big enough to really have systems. I picked it up, Marina Del Rey with the yacht broker and we're taking it to Newport Beach where I was at the time. You got to go way out there beyond Palos Faris Peninsula. It's a pretty good trip. And so we're out there, and we're up on the flybridge, and I go down to the Master State Room. And I'm in there, and I hear this, I'm hearing this intermittent noise.

57:02And I go, crap, something's wrong, because the engine room was next to that. I go, something's wrong. I ran up to get the guy, and I go, there's some noise down there. Something's broken. And he goes, what? And he comes down there, and he starts laughing. He goes, that's the autopilot. I said, oh, I never had an autopilot before. This boat was bigger than anything I ever had. And I said, well, what's that noise? And he said, well, when we rounded the peninsula, the swells out here are really big. And, you know, you can feel it. And the boat's supposed to get on this heading to go to Newport. Well, you know, we'll get knocked off that heading all the time.

57:40And I set it on a much tighter cadence for correction because we're moving so much. I want it instantly correcting pretty quickly because if you don't, back to the words in the book, adapt and fix to what the measurement shows you. If that weren't happening quickly, we would end up in Catalina Island if somebody didn't fix what the measurement and accountability showed us. And so the quick part is really important. Collective wisdom has said this for centuries. Nip it in the bud, for example. It's just true. Problems unaddressed become patterns. Patterns become deeply ingrained. It's like tributaries of water out of your gutter.

58:27It's not going to go where it's supposed to now with a big storm. It carved a new path into your yard. You've got to address it quickly. It's neurological. It's how behavior happens. So good. So just to summarize, if you want to get from here to there to your desired future, five basic essentials here. Vision, talent, strategy, accountability, and adaptability. You've written a tremendous book. You guys need to go buy this book, Your Desired Future by Dr. Henry Cloud. I was trying to encourage you before the show to create a coaching certification program around this. And I hope that you'll end up doing that.

59:13But this is a book for every coach. It's a book for anybody who wants to accomplish anything. This is the basic operating system for getting into the future you want. Henry, thank you so much. Well, thanks for having me. I always love being with you guys because, again, you actually know this content domain. It's such a great discussion. So I'm sure we'll continue it at lunch. Okay, buddy. Thank you. Thanks, Henry.

59:55Okay, that was a fun conversation. And as I predicted, it was hard to bring the plane in for landing because there's so much to talk about. We had a lot of stuff that we couldn't get to. Oh, true. I mean, we probably covered a third of the questions that we had. But, you know, he's become a dear friend over the years. I've known him for a long, long time. And despite the fact that he's written all these bestselling books, he sold so many copies of those books. He's spoken at so many conferences that none of us get access to. And he's got all these impressive credentials. He's such a down to earth guy.

1:00:30And I really admire that about him. So what did you take away from this, Joel? I mean, I love the fact that he bases it in a model as simple as our daily waking experience. You know, we all want to wake up and go do stuff. And to do that, we have these various steps that we just automatically do. We don't even have to think about it. And yet that model scales all the way up to massive corporations trying to go do something. And I think that's just a really fascinating, on the one hand, way of approaching it. But it also then shines light on all these places where things break down. When you highlight, for instance, needing to recruit talent, your body has the talent that it needs to do most of the stuff that it wants to do.

1:01:13But your organization may not. And that may be exactly where the breakdown is coming. Or you may be reluctant to take the feedback that the environment is giving you or the market or whatever is giving you. Your body would know, for instance, a pain signal. Ouch, don't go there anymore or ouch, correct course. But in an organization, you might be really reluctant to listen to like the feedback mechanisms that you have in place. and so we suffer the consequences. So scaling up from that basic idea that it's kind of like what the human body does on a daily basis, that's what we're doing in big organizations and small teams and everything in between, I found that just really compelling, really easy, an easy way to kind of understand what's going on.

1:01:54It felt like something that grew organically out of his observations about the body and there's nothing more fundamental than the way that we move through the world and try to get what we want. And so those five components of his system are so, for me at least, easy to memorize because they just naturally flow from one to the next. And even when he talked about, you know, sometimes the strategy will dictate the talent, you know, I thought that was a nice nuance to it because that's definitely how it sometimes happens. I think my biggest takeaway, though, was around accountability. I had so many more questions that I wanted to ask him about because I do know as a coach myself that people sort of bristle at that notion.

1:02:41It's kind of like everybody says they want accountability until it happens. Yeah. It's the right thing to say, but it's not the right – it's not the thing you want to feel. And it's literally the number one thing I look for when I'm interviewing a new potential client is are they willing to be accountable? And the thing that I say to them is I say, look, I'm not going to hold you accountable. I can't do that. But I'm going to help you hold yourself accountable for where you want to go. And I think that Henry has given me some new language around that. Well, like that partner versus police thing, right?

1:03:14Yeah. It's feedback so that you can adapt so that we can both get you to where you say you want to go. Yeah. And I think in my own life, you know, I think it just makes me open, more open. to feedback because let's be honest, when you get feedback, particularly from people close to you, not going to mention any names, but sometimes it's, you know, it's a little bit hard to hear. It can sting. And it's easy to try to justify yourself. But if we're wise, as he pointed out, we'll welcome it because we have an opportunity to get wiser. The other thing I thought was great about the simple five steps or components or features of this way of doing things is it works like a diagnostic too.

1:03:56So when, when you're stuck or when things are breaking down, you can kind of pull out that list and you can just look, where am I failing? Like, where is this going wrong? Because it's going to be one of those five things. You know, I think this would probably be true at Full Focus. I'll see if you concur with this, but I think that if there's one place that we've struggled with over the years, it is in the accountability. Not that people aren't willing to be accountable, but up until recently, we haven't been able to build sort of the dashboard that gives us the feedback we need to correct. That's really true.

1:04:28I think it's true for most of my coaching clients too. And certainly in our double win coaching program, a lot of those people who have businesses, they don't have any system for getting feedback. So they don't know if they're on course or off course. And you can end up miles and miles from where you want it to be just because you didn't have a source of feedback that created the accountability that resulted in the adaptability that kept you on course. And like where the breakdown can happen with us is like we have the data, but don't have a way of getting access to it in a useful way. And so even if you have the parts of it, you may not have what you need out of it in order to get what you want.

1:05:06So like, back to that diagnostic idea, if you see that breakdown, you got to dig in. Like to use this phrase, you got to double click and then go further into it to see where the breakdown is. Because it's really easy to say, well, we've got the data. But unless you can actually look at it and use it, no, you don't, even if it's there. It opens up so many possibilities. Yeah, it does. Well, I love this conversation. And oh, by the way, much like your wife, Henry is the master of metaphors and stories. And I think that elucidates everything he was talking about and makes it clear in a way that, you know, just telling the principles doesn't.

1:05:42Right, it's just all on the top of his head and out it comes. And it's great to listen to. Guys, we hope you've enjoyed this episode with Henry Cloud, and we hope that you've enjoyed it so much that you'll share it with a friend. So do that if you would, because we want to spread the word, and we want to get the news about not only this interview with Henry, but also his book out there. And of course, go buy the book, Your Desired Future, Where Better Books Are Sold. See you next week.

1:06:17Thank you.