JON ACUFF: Goals Inspiring Enough to Ignore Netflix

22:43You asked me, you know, like those kinds of boundaries. Doesn't make the other person wrong or you wrong. No, I find. And are true. It's a lie. if I say I would love to do that, but if I really wouldn't love to do it, I just lied. So also listening to the words I'm saying and going, oh, that was a lie. I wouldn't love to do this. Like I would hate to do this. I'm really trying to get to the place where I can say no without feeling the need to explain. You know, just knows, like Oprah says, it's a complete sentence. I had another question and this is just my own curiosity. What's your Enneagram number?

23:15So that's funny you say that. I was on Ian's podcast. Yeah. Ian Cron. Yeah, Ian Cron. He said, because I've tested a seven for a while, but I think I'm a three. I think you are too. And he was - But a really healthy one. And Dave Barnes said to me, he's like, you're either a three or you're the most goal-driven seven who's ever existed. I was like, yeah, I think I'm an achiever. I think I - Because when something doesn't have a point, even if the point is just to have fun, I'm like, what are we even doing right now? Yeah. What are we even - And so - You struggle with that. I do. Yeah. So I would say three.

23:50Yeah. Yeah. So. I have one. Let's go. Quick thing. So I just finished reading Cal Newport's book, Slow Productivity. Oh, yeah. One of the things he talks about is how in kind of a burnout culture or an overwork culture, that the way that we know when it's time to stop working is stress. Like that's sort of the only acceptable reason not to continue working is stress. Do you find that to be true? Yeah, I mean, I have to set boundaries on stopping. So like, and I have to like, I kind of look at it when we had young kids, we would do outdoor activities that made it difficult for them to have their phone.

24:30So kayaking naturally made it difficult for them to have the phone. We didn't have to have the phone fight. You're in a boat. There's water. Like, so I like to do activities that make it difficult for me to work. So I would have a hard time if Jenny said, let's just sit on the couch for three hours today. It's a Saturday and do nothing. I would feel restless in that moment. I can do some of that, but if it was a four-hour stretch of us just sitting there. It's a great hack. Versus if she said, hey, let's go on a hike and have a long conversation where we plan the next year. Like, one, we're getting the endorphins.

25:02We're outside. It's so good for you. That, for me, makes it hard for me to work. It's very difficult for me in the middle of a hike or for me in the middle of a card game. You know, like, so I like active recovery that way versus like versus just sitting there. Like I know that about myself. And so I try to find ways that I make it difficult for me to work, you know, and difficult for me to plug back in or grind or grow. Or another boundary would be like, I like to sketch. If I post me sketching online, it's over. Like now I've got an audience. So like I'm trying to find things that are for me that I don't grow, that I don't share, that I like.

25:42And it kind of reminds me, Al Andrews, our mutual friend, he said one time to me, he said, is it ever hard for you to have an idea and not share it immediately? And I was like, yeah, not even immediately. Which platform? Everywhere. And he goes, well, right now you have a keg party lifestyle. Like you're serving light beer and people are coming in and getting idea, idea, idea. He said, you need some wine ideas. You need some ideas you have on a shelf for nine years, 10 years, 11 years. talk with a small group of friends, but let them ferment, let them grow, let them strengthen. So I'm also like, what's the wine idea that I'm quietly somewhere growing and I'm tending it, but I don't need it to be out and about.

26:18And then a friend of mine, an accountability partner, he said this to me maybe a month ago. It's kind of talking about input. And he said, people who say on your deathbed, you'll never say you wished you worked more or spent more time with the office hated their jobs and didn't like the people they worked with. Like that's like the only way you say that is if you hated the office and hated the people you worked with. If you loved what you did and felt like you were impacting the world and love the people you work with, spending lots of time with them is a good thing. And I think that, so I push back on that idea of like, I don't want a job I have to escape from.

26:54I can overdo it. Just like I have a compulsive streak where I can go, like I do one thing I love and I go, I bet a hundred would be even better. Yeah. So like Lego, I did that with Lego sets. Like I bought a Lego set. I'm like, this is pretty good. And then I bought like 50, like over a period, over a period of time. But it was like displayed in your house somewhere as many as my wife will let me. Yeah. Like, but like eventually it was like, I didn't have joy in it the same way because I had overdone it. Yeah. So I'm very, as I'm, as I approach 50, I'm like, okay, I don't want to take this joy, past joy into compulsion.

27:27I don't want to take this joy. So what's the line? How do you know? well sometimes you know because you go over it and like sometimes like healthy for me is recognizing quickly when i've gone over it and pulling it back i don't need the 40th lego set on the third i go let's take our time that's really i feel like we're sprinting through this now that's the other thing i feel like we're sprinting through this same with books like i was listening to books at 1.6 speed i was like this is panic attack speed like that's too fast like it just wasn't enjoyable and i wasn't getting anything out of it and it stressed me It was like having a really small person talk quickly into your ear.

28:00And I was like, this isn't. So now I pulled it back to 1.2 because one is too slow for most readers. It's so true. It feels me. 1.25 or 1.2. Perfect. Perfect. They make you read slow. When you go read your books, they tell you to read slow. And you're like, no one talks about this. So things like that have been helpful. Like when I go past it and I pull it back and I go, okay, that's right. Oh, here's another one. I won't run a marathon. I've run 10 half marathons. My wife knows if you do a marathon, you're going to get into like compulsive training. Like that's where you're headed. So I had a commitment to me and to her.

28:29I'm like, you're right. I'll do half marathons. They're great. And I know that it would become an ego thing where I would just want to tell people I ran a marathon. Like it wouldn't for other people, it's completely healthy. For me, half marathon is the healthy boundary and I love them and they're great and I run a lot, but that's the boundary. Have you always been good at self-awareness? No. Like I've been good at self-awareness, but not self-action. There's a lot of people who are amazing at self-awareness, but they don't do anything. And so I think I was always intuitive because my dad's a pastor.

29:01He's a communicator. I come from a family of communicators. So they are good at expressing emotions and saying words. But it took me a while to connect that to, okay, so what does that mean on a Tuesday? So what does that mean on a Wednesday? I think about that. There's a guy named Caleb Hammer who does financial audits, really fascinating guy online, blowing up. And he'll tell people, you're not a credit card person. He's like, that's not a bad thing or a good thing. you just aren't built for credit cards. Like the way you function, you're not a credit card person. I love that framework of there's some things I'm not.

29:32I'm not a marathon person. That doesn't mean like that's bad or good for anybody else. That's just, I know that about me. But I'm a big believer, like you should keep an owner's manual. Like you should have a running owner's manual of, oh, that worked for me. That didn't work for me. Oh, this is the time I need to go to bed or this, like when I do this, it gives me joy. Because I think we forget those things again and again and again. So for me, Keep relearning them. Yeah, and keep relearning them. Because everybody's had the experience where they do something they love and they go, why haven't I done this for three years?

30:01Or you go to a coffee with their friend and you go, that filled me up. Like, why haven't we? And so that's what self-awareness feels like to me. It's like, how do you turn into self-action?

30:19Let's turn the corner and talk about goals. Sure. we've written on goals we have courses on goals you've written on goals have you always been a goal-setting guy no no okay that's interesting no like i said i love that question because i'll meet people and go were you did you have like a small business in the womb like were you like selling things in the maternity ward sometimes you meet entrepreneurs i don't like that and they're like i had eliminate stan i was three um no like it took me till my mid-30s like i was really, and I think that's why I feel so passionate now. Like I hit a career plateau.

30:55I was a senior content designer at AutoTrader and there was no super duper senior content designer position. I had hit the ceiling. I was done. And my wife was kind of like, Hey, like you either need to do something else or like we're stuck. And like, we had no money. I had no time. And that's when I started to blog. Like I started to go like, I'm going to write some, and a friend at work encouraged me to do it. I didn't even come up with the idea. And then I started to really like it. And then, and I talk about this in my book, All It Takes a Goal. Like then once I had a desire, I wanted to feed it more time.

31:29I feel like the desire gives you discipline, not the other way. I've never met somebody who just woke up one day and said, today I'll have persistence. Like today I'll have discipline. Like it's always in the service of something greater than you have right now. So like my shorthand for that is I want you to find a goal you love so much. It makes Netflix look boring. Like, cause I, I watched less TV in that season, not cause I was disciplined because I was like, man, if I do, if I get up an hour early and cause I didn't stay up late last night watching alias, then I can write more for, I can write the blog for another hour.

32:00That's amazing. Like TV was giving me nothing. And like, that's when I started in the commute, I would practice speeches in my car as I drove to work because it was dark. I didn't have any other time. I would give my speeches to the steering wheel. But I missed that hour for five years of that commute. And then when I had a thing that I really wanted and I was like, this thing needs to be fed time. I got two kids under the age of four, full-time job, Atlanta commute. I was like, oh, I'll do that. And then on the drive home, I'll call freelance clients because I'll start to freelance. And so then that's when goals, I just felt like goals are the fastest way to get anything you want.

32:38And so then I couldn't do enough. And then it was like, I talked to other people and they'd been doing them since they were 22 and I'd be so jealous. I'd be like, oh, you have a 12 year head start. And then like, but then I'd meet a ton of people that are like, no, I don't really do goals. I don't, I'd be like, how are you not? Like, what is your desire? My greatest hack. Yeah. So that's what got me into goals. So what did you think you knew about goals before you started researching it that you learned was kind of myth? Yeah, that's a great question. I think I wasted a lot of time on blame and victimhood.

33:10So I would look at other people and go, oh, it must be nice. They must have connections. They must have money already. They must have, like, I did a lot of time blaming versus sitting down and going, okay, how do I take personal responsibility for where I am? And because you could say I'm too busy. That's just a form of blame. Like, I would do amazing things if I wasn't too busy. And so when I stopped and I was like, wait a second, people like me get to do goals? That was the biggest revelation was like, it's not for special people or different people or privileged people or rich people or whatever.

33:45Anybody can do them. And there's like Mel Robbins has this thing where like, no one's coming. She has this riff that's really popular. It's like, no one's coming. No one's coming. It's got to be you. And the reverse is true too. No one's stopping you. Like no one is coming. Like when I started to write, there weren't a hundred people that showed up like you don't get to write like I was kind of like oh if nobody's gonna stop then I'm gonna keep doing this and then I like the biggest revelation was that the door was unlocked the whole time I just had to turn the handle and so like I think I made a lot of excuses early on like well here's why I can't do this or that's for other people and and knowing that I got to do it and it was possible changed everything what have you found um to be the secrets to achieving goals I mean one is desire I think we have a really hard time admitting desires Or being okay with desires Why do you think?

34:34Well I think sometimes we have broken soundtracks from our family Sometimes it's cultural Sometimes we grow up in a faith conversation that prevents Like there's a musician here in Nashville that told me He's a Christian musician He said if you buy a$90 ,000 Suburban Christians say good for you It's a family car If you buy a$90 ,000 BMW They say Jesus rode a donkey Like you really shouldn't have used that Same amount of money Just a different brand, different interpretation, different judgment. So I think sometimes you bring into your own self-limiting beliefs or whatever phrase you want to use.

35:04I had a friend, Stephen Scoggins, and his dad used to say, Scoggins don't get ahead, Scoggins get by. And so you hear that 100 times as a kid. That's a family – like here's the family line. So sometimes I think we bring stuff like that into them. I think we make them harder than they need to be. I meet people that will go, I want to write a book. And I'm like, that's great. and they go, I want to write a book so my dad knows my career choices are all right. And I'm like, whoa, whoa. No wonder it's hard for you to write. Take it to therapy. You just have to prove to your dad you're a good person as you write.

35:33Every word is going to be torture. Don't make an already difficult thing more difficult. So sometimes we make it harder than it needs to be. Sometimes we've never seen it done. But as far as secrets, my whole thing is great thoughts turn into great actions. Great actions turn into great results. So if you can get the thoughts right and then actually act on them, you'll actually start to see some results. And then it's the stuff that you guys talk about all the time too, is having a community. We know it matters, but it's so easy to isolate. And then the last thing would be culture is not built for you to succeed.

36:06I said that to our friend Josh Axe. Netflix doesn't want you to do well at your goals. That's not their goal. Hulu doesn't want you to write a book. Even dating apps don't want you to get married because then you break the business model. Their goal isn't you find long lasting love after one date. Their goal is you have a hundred meaningless hookups and never unsubscribe. So you have to at least admit culturally you're up against some challenges. Like Netflix is really good. Like Instagram is really good. And they're spending billions of dollars. To get your attention. And so I think, you know, that's not to say you couldn't have been distracted in the 80s or the 90s because I was there.

36:46I remember being distracted without all those things. but you have to admit that like that's changed. Like even think about it this way, like department stores now have buy here, pay here options. When you check out at a department store, it'll allow you to buy here, pay here a hundred dollar thing. So you go, why is credit, like, why is credit debt going up? Because what used to be buy here, pay here at car lots that you go, that's a bad neighborhood. It's a different, now every purchase you can finance into the future. And so like we teach our kids, like if your legs and your car works, never doordash.

37:20Like you wouldn't tip$8 at a Taco Bell. Like, but we've now been taught like, no, I should do that. So you have to understand there's this whole cultural machine pushing against, you know, the goals you want to do. Like, and we're at odds. Like my goals are different than what Instagram wants for me. My goals are different than what Netflix wants for me. And so I think sometimes we forget that and we don't draw boundaries. Yeah.

37:54this is a little personal so you can yeah sure or not answer it but what goal have you struggled with the most because i think we all have like a thorny goal i've had my version oh yeah i know this one yeah so what and then how did you deal with that i would say uh building and running a systemized business. That's been the biggest thorn in my flesh. It is so hard. It's so hard. And even now, like I mentioned Bill Hampton, Bill and I are working together. He was my boss at Ramsey, brilliant guy. And I feel right now in my partnership with him that I am like an 800-pound person who's hired a trainer, a physical trainer.

38:33And it makes me very uncomfortable in the best ways. Because he'll go, why did you do this, this, and this? And I'll go, because I was afraid and it was the easiest way to do it. And like, I felt uncomfortable and not like, and he's asking hard questions and I've had to open the fiefdom. I've had this little John Acuff fiefdom to a wise person with outside perspective to go, I think you can go to the next level, but in order to do that, you're going to have to do this, this, and this. And I've hidden so easy that I wish it was hard for me to go, what's a goal I have? A hundred percent. Yeah. growing my business to the size I believe it can be with some of the things that I would say are systems you know the way staffing culture all the stuff that's like it's not shiny like one of the soundtracks I say is excellence is boring like it's like winning is exciting but excellence is boring it's all the things it's all the follow-ups it's all the thank you notes it's all the things that nobody sees but that's the stuff like that's the stuff that matters and so So making time for that, valuing it, and surrounding yourself with people that can ask hard questions.

39:38Like Bill is asking hard questions. And my business won't look like it looks like right now a year from now. Wow. That's exciting. That's amazing. Is there a goal? This is sort of the inverse of what you just asked. Is there a goal where you achieve something really big, but you would have never achieved it without a goal? Yeah, I would say 90%. Like I, I, the joke I do, like I have this joke where I go, why don't people, you know, succeed? And I was like, I'm always like, I can't speak for them, but I don't like doing difficult things because they're difficult. Like they're hard. Like, like writing as easy as writing a book is not writing a book is even easier.

40:16As easy as going to the gym is not going is even easier. And I'll joke, I'll say, have you ever nodded before? I could not all day. So like, I am very like, I heard a Swedish author. I wish I could remember his name. and he said, my brain and I are not friends. We are coworkers working on a project called life and it is not going well. So I, another line I'll do is that you're the most persuasive person you've ever met. And I'll say that to people and go, cause every bad decision you made first, you talked yourself into it. And I'm like, this is going to go well. It's going to work out for us.

40:44And so no, I mean, writing books, like I have to be writing is very challenging for me. Like I have to sit down and really like I track the hours. I know I'm at 223 this year. Cause I write down each hour. Like I track the hours I focus. Like, so I need, if I shared all the tools it takes to keep me going in the right direction, like listeners would be like, that's too much. This guy, he needs to go to counseling. I would say I am, that's one of the tools. So I would say the majority of what I've accomplished has been because of goals. Like. I have a theory and let's see if this is true for you.

41:19And that is, I chronically underestimate how long things are going to take and what they're going to cost. But I actually think that's a life hack. Because I think if anything I got into that was meaningful, if I'd really counted the cost, I would have never done it. So I stopped resenting that and started embracing it. I love, that's one of the many reasons I love your stuff. That's a hundred percent true. If somebody told me, and somebody did tell me this, I remember I was at an event, I shared the stage with John Maxwell, which is awesome. And then we did a book signing line together, my table and his table's next to me.

41:51And there were 500 people at his table and no one came to my table. And people had wheelbarrows full of his product to buy and they'd get out of line for a second and go, love your blog. Not in a buy your stuff way, but I'm going to be over. And then they'd get back in line. And a dude came up to me from behind, patted me on the back and goes, 10 years, buddy, 10 years. And he meant it as encouragement, but I didn't want to say decade. That's all it's going to take decade. So if somebody told me at the beginning, Hey, all you have to do is like consistently write books, consistently speak for like 16, 17, 18 years.

42:25Like I graduated college in 98. So I've been a professional writer for 26 years. I'm so glad nobody told me that at the beginning. And so I do, I think I a hundred percent agree with that. But on the flip side, for me, somebody asked about that. They're like, you've worked really hard. And I genuinely, this sounds so cheesy. I generally believe that when you're in your calling, it doesn't, it's not as hard to you in the moment. Like I don't look back on things that I did. Like, man, I went to Effingham, Illinois, and I did a three hour event and it was January and it was cold. And there were a lot of people there and the guy forgot the clicker.

43:01So like when I got there, he goes, left the clicker at home, just say next. And I was like, for three hours, that's, I'm going to have to say next 187 slides. Like how far is home? Like is home close? Can we go get the clicker? But even in that moment, I don't look back on that and go, oh, that was so hard. I go like, no, that was the like, even in that moment, I always say like find something you love that even with the delayed flight, you're smiling. Nobody I know is like, man, yeah, I love a canceled flight. Nobody loves that. But even that I'm like, but did I get to be on stage for 45 minutes and do what I feel like I'm best at and really impact a lot?

43:36Like that was worth it. Like, so if you have the blessing of bumping into that, like that's what you hold on to. And it doesn't like it doesn't feel as hard as you might think. So if you're talking to somebody who keeps setting goals, they're not achieving them, or maybe they're 50-50, what would you say? Because I think that's a lot of us. Well, I would say I would try to diagnose what the problem is. Like, is it an overestimation? so like i always say you know um like your calendar tells the truth so a lot of times your your desire is divorced from your calendar yeah and you're doing so true and so i'll meet people that'll go i want to do these goals and i'll say well how much time would they cost a week and i'll say about 20 hours and i'll say well how many hours of free time do you have in your week right now and i go free time i'm really busy zero and i go you have 20 hours of goals zero hour space you're doomed before you started.

44:30And so like, is it a time issue? Like, is it overestimation? Do they really want to do it? Like, it's okay to say you don't want to do it. It's okay to retire a goal. Like I retire goals all the time. Like one of the phrases I say is September, September you is smarter than January you. So you only knew one, like you had limited information in January. If you get to September, you're like, this is not the thing. Don't slug it out with yourself to like, Go ahead and admit, I've grown, I've changed. This isn't a desire anymore. And so I like to audition goals versus come up with an annual goal. Ooh, I like those.

45:03Because I think people in January, for you to come up with a New Year's resolution as a goal, which is probably our most popular form of goals without ever testing it, is like speed dating somebody you married that night. And you'd never do that. Only on TV. Only on TV. And so I'd go, well, can we audition it for like a week? Can we audition it for a month? And then in February, you decide, you know what? We're doubling down. We're going to do February 2 and we're going to do March. So I like kind of doing them with an iteration versus a, I have to go from never doing it to now I'm all in. So I think that's part of it.

45:35I think sometimes they don't have community to encourage them. I talked to a guy the other day. He said, running sucks, but the people are awesome. Like he wouldn't say, I love running. It's like, man, I love how I feel after. I love, I mean, that's the other thing is like, I also fortify goals with soundtracks. So one of my soundtracks for difficult goals is I'll feel awesome after. I'll feel awesome after. Can you explain what you mean by soundtracks? Because I think people automatically go to music. I assume they're buying it right now, just ordering as they listen to this. I wrote a book called Soundtracks about mindset.

46:04And the theory was a soundtrack is just a repetitive thought. And the key to mindset is you retire your broken soundtracks, you replace them with new ones, and you repeat those new ones so often they become as automatic as the old ones. So for me, I use that. And it works and it's probably going to end up being my best selling book because it's a really easy handle and everybody has soundtracks. Our team loves that book. I appreciate that. So one of my soundtracks for something I don't want to do is I'll feel awesome after. So I know, like we live in Nashville, the joke I always do is it's too cold in the winter to run and the spring is too rainy and the summer is too hot and the fall is too dark.

46:40Like there's not a good. Yeah. And so what I tell myself, I don't, if I think about the beginning, I'll never do it. if I imagine oh it's gonna feel cold when I go outside I'm gonna have to find clothes it's gonna like it's gonna be windy like oh if I think about the beginning I'll never do it so I tell myself I'll feel awesome after I feel awesome after like and I I just I think about the beginning in black and white I dream about the end in technicolor so I go oh man it's gonna feel great in that shower it's gonna feel great crossing that number off on Strava it's gonna feel great coming down that last hill and I'll say I'll feel awesome after and now I've got a soundtrack that's helping nudge me So a lot of times they, they've never dealt with the mindset side of it.

47:15And so, yeah, I think there's just a, and then some of it's perfectionism, some of it's procrastination, um, some of it's imposter syndrome. And so I think there's a lot of things and they all come down to, you know, fear, just like a general sense of fear that a lot of people, that sticks a lot of people. Cause the stuff we do, like the joke I sometimes do is like, they've never invented a 12th ab, like men's health could publish one issue if people just did what it said. Like there's never like issue 500. It's not like, hold up. We found a different type of ab exercise. No one's ever done. This one works.

47:48The previous 490 issues are bad. This is the one. Like we have enough info. Like building a business, there's a lot of things that aren't mysterious, but they take consistency and they take boring stuff. And so it's like, how do you fall in love with those little pieces? And, you know, for me, it's exciting to get a book in the mail. that you've written, it's like half an hour. It's going to take you a year. So you better find other things to move you along than just the half an hour of holding the book because money's the same way. The thrill of that's pretty short. You better enjoy the conversations you're having on a Thursday versus just someday this thing goes viral and we get massive sponsors, whatever.

48:32Yeah. Do you think when you're goal-focused, and I struggle with this, to be honest, is that I'm so always in the future that it's sometimes hard for me to be in the present. Yeah. Yeah. For me, I'll think about things like, how do I put my feet down? Like, how do I root to this moment? Like, I'll stop and kind of like, okay, what moment am I in right now? And I'll write down notes during the day. Like, you know, like, wow, that was, I'll start keeping track of things, like small things that I'm just like, like, I'll probably put in, I don't know if I'd call it a gratitude journal. I keep, I come up with something called a best list moment and all it takes is a goal.

49:12And like, I got a really good parking spot today. So I'm going to write that down in that. Cause that was a small, like now I'm not waiting for home run moments. Now I'm like, man, I found one. Cause they're starting to do two hour only everywhere. And so like I found, I had to go a couple blocks over where there's no two hours. It's just like park as long as you want. And I was like, Hey, and there's one available. And so like, I'll write that small thing down in like in the day, but where my wife will kind of push back on me on that is when it's a Monday and I go, are we going out to dinner with friends on Wednesday?

49:42And she'll go, we'll figure it out Wednesday. And I'm like, oh, I got to know. I got to know. And that's where I'm moving into anxiety and I'm living in a future versus like, what are we doing today? So yeah, I would say I'm always trying to re-root myself to the moment I'm in. It's not automatic for me. You know, an interesting practice that I've begun, especially with my grandkids, like I try to get better at saying no. And now I'm in a season where I'm trying to get better at saying yes to the right things. So it's kind of like you were talking about, you know, with your girls, when you're being asked to do something in the moment and you just decide to say yes.

50:17You know, whatever the plans are, they just go away. And I'm trying to do the same thing with my grandkids. And it's a really great strategy for being present. Yeah, and it's, I would say it's like anything else, you can practice it. I always tell people, like when people say to me, well i'm john i'm not detailed i'll go forever like you're 38 you don't you might live 50 more years that's already been decided like you can't learn how to be more detailed or they go i'm not good with numbers right for the rest of your life and so for me knowing i'm not i'm not easily present just goes can i make that a goal like what would it look like okay and try things like test it like okay I'm not gonna have you know I'm not gonna have a calendar this week on vacation okay well let me see how that feels or I'm not gonna wear my watch like I'm a big test it with a small action guy so like one of the ones I talked about in the book I wanted to be closer connected to people because I was getting isolated like my introversion moved into more of isolation so I decided I want to encourage people and so I came up with a list of 30 people and for 30 days in a row, I texted one of them every morning an encouragement, out of the blue.

51:24And I was like, hey, just wanted to know, like, every time I think of creativity, like Jeremy Coward, we mentioned that. Anytime I think of the word creativity, like, you're who comes to mind. Like, it wasn't, and I didn't make it hard. I didn't write them long letters, like, and 90 % of them wrote back and said, you don't know how much I needed that today. And so, I took what was fuzzy, be a better friend, you can't execute against that, and made it kind of tactical and practical, and then I did it. And then at the end of the 30 days, I felt more connected to people. And so anytime, like, so if I said to myself, I want to be more present, I would probably find four or five actions that I could try in small ways.

52:00Um, and instead of doing the extreme and going, I got to do yoga. I got to like, I got to go all, I got to do a silent retreat for three months to figure this out. I would go on a Tuesday, what can I do to be a little more present? Let me try that seven days in a row, 30 days in a row, see if it worked. And if it's something I want to add to the toolkit that keeps me moving in the direction I want to go. That's fantastic. Well, I know we're almost out of time and almost to our questions that we get to ask every guest. However, selfishly, I want to ask you one more question about goals because it's a question we get asked a lot.

52:37And that is as a parent, so you're kind of like almost at the empty nest phase. You're not quite there, but you're getting close. What would you say to parents about teaching their kids how to set goals? And what should they not do? What should they do? Give us your best advice. Great question. We actually have a book. My daughters and I wrote a book called How Teens Win that comes out in a couple months that we're really excited about. That's so exciting. What's the title again? How Teens Win. I just wanted you to say it a second. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for saying that. Available everywhere. They read the audio book.

53:06What happened with soundtracks was it was the first time I'd ever had a book come out where parents asked for a teenage version. Yeah. Like the first six books no one ever asked for a teenage version to finish or do over. And a book about mindset, parents came out of the woodwork and like, my kid is struggling with mindset. Like, could you do a teenage version? And I knew if I wrote it, it would be like an old person trying to sell it young. Like, hello, fellow youths. Like, wow, don't crease the Js. I got so much riz. I'm a risley bear. Like, it would be so whack. And then I said, whack is whack.

53:37So when I had two teenage daughters and they helped me write the book and we wrote this book called Your New Playlist. and now it's being taught in schools across the country. And my hope is that we'll teach kids mindset in the future in the same way we teach them finances. 20, 30 years ago, we didn't teach kids anything about money and said, here's a credit card, try not to buy a jet ski. And then they would like detonate their lives. And so hopefully we'll teach a mindset, but that led to a second book, How Teens Win. So I would say a couple of things. One thing we've seen that works well with conversations like this is do it via audio.

54:07So, so many parents have come up to us and said, I got the print book of your new playlist, but the audio book that's your teenagers reading it, teens speaking to teens was way more helpful because we can listen to a chapter in a carpool. And I could say, what do you think about that? Do you agree? Because like, it's challenging for a parent to go, here's a book I want you to read during the summer. That's not, you know, like what teenager is like, you got any more books for me to read? So one, I would say like play to that strength of audio connection time. second thing is don't suffocate a passion there's a real temptation as a parent where a kid expresses a little bit of passion you go she's an artist i knew she was an artist and every birthday present every gift every class and you suffocate this passion that the kid had and they just wanted to try five things yeah and we have specialization culture where we make kids specialize really early and like it's wild to me that like a nine-year-old can feel it's too late to try something new because they didn't start playing flag football when they were two.

55:08Wow. And my daughter felt that when she joined swim. She joined swim at nine. She saw that there were five-year-olds there, and she said, I'm so far behind, I'll never catch up. So the other thing I'd say around kids is don't suck the joy out of it in performance. So I just, example, I just recently ran the Nashville half marathon with my youngest daughter, McCray, and people are like, what was your time goal? What was your time goal? I said, we didn't have one. I had two goals, that at the end of the race, she didn't hate running, and she didn't hate me. Because I knew as a parent, I'd be tempted.

55:38We got to train. We got to. And I would remove all the joy. And she would never want to run again. And I would have. So wise. And then the last thing is give them the time to develop that you needed to develop. Like a friend of mine said to me. He goes, man, my 16-year-old, just a knucklehead. Like I can't get him up on time for all this stuff. And I said, well, how long? Like what age were you when you kind of got disciplined and consistent? He said about 32. I said, well, no offense to you. Maybe your amazing parenting will cut two years off of that, but that just still means he has 14 years more.

56:09Right. And so I think where parents like us get it twisted is we find something that's true and amazing about life in our mid-30s, early 40s, and we don't want our kids to have to take as long to learn it. Yeah, so true. And we put a pressure on them. I did it the other day. That's why it's fresh in my mind. We have a drawer where we keep the car keys, and one of my kids couldn't find their car keys. And I was like, if you just put it in the drawer and my wife was there and she was like, it took you 10 years, John, to trust that drawer. And I was like, right. I don't want her to have to pay the decade cost.

56:40Just learn from my mistake. And so recognizing that temptation to go, they're going to get some of their own bruises. They're going to get some of their own lessons. And that's part of, if you want to feel like you're out of control, have a kid. Like, because you can control into a certain, and I used to not think I was a control freak. I used to say, I'm just a fan of certainty. and then like and then now like once you have teenagers i can't control what type like who like if people like them i can't control if they go to the prom i can't control who they go with who they go with there's so many so you have to be really open-handed with children totally and i think that's the bravery part of it i mean like in the stage you're in like you can't control if they have kids or if they live near you or if they do some job that takes them to europe for 10 years Like there's so many things.

57:30So I think like, I think that's part of it is like encourage them, support them. When I say to kids, like when I meet teenagers, I said this the other day to a teenager, he's 18 and he's starting to read more books, like kind of goal books. And I've been giving him some advice and I was like, dude, treat your parents like venture capitalists. If you show up with plans, they will throw so much money at it. I said, if you go to them, mom and dad, I know I'm going to school and I want to join a gym because gym, like being at the gym is part of my mental health. and they'll be like, great, we'll buy you a gym membership.

57:59And when I saw him and his parents last, he said, yeah, I'm crushing that Audible. I'm listening to so many books while I do lawn care. And his dad was like, yeah, I'll buy any book you want. The dad was like, of course. So I try to tell kids, the parents' job, if you express a passion, we're so excited. We'll fund that, we'll lift that up, we'll surround you and everyone. And so I was trying to reframe for him, treat them like venture capitalists. If you showed up with paperwork, like my daughter, when she wanted to sign up for TikTok, came with a 10 slide PowerPoint. And on her own. She was just like, look, here's the accounts I want to follow.

58:37Here's the time measurements I want to set. And we're like, oh my gosh, like she's really, like we're all in. So like I love to encourage teenagers, like treat them like venture capitalists. They want to be angel investors in your success if you'll let them. So bring it to them. And they're only trying to make you successful. Like that's their only, um, and so I, I, I kind of geek out about helping, helping both parents and teenagers that way. Maybe as the granddad, I could tell your kids that and kind of coach them to come to you with a PowerPoint slide deck. Well, you used to make us do that.

59:08We didn't have PowerPoint back then, but you used to have us do that very thing, you know, like you don't go ask for money unless you're coming with a proposal. I want to know you're all in. Yeah. Like I don't want to be casual. I want to know you've got skin in the game and you're like, it really matters to you. Yeah, absolutely.

59:35Okay, so we do a lightning round at 10. Yeah, sure. And we've got some questions to ask you. So first of all, what's your biggest obstacle for getting the double win in this season of your life? I would say vulnerability. I said the business stuff, like opening up with... I think you're so vulnerable. Yeah, but like... Or is it full vulnerability? This whole hour has been a lie. No, like opening up to invite otherwise people to ask me hard questions that I then respond to. So that's what I mean by vulnerability. Especially in areas where you know you've got to grow. Yeah. And it's going to take me past my current kind of comfort zone.

1:00:14Yeah. Well, I would say the shortest distance between where you are and where you want to get is the truth. And the faster you can get to that, the faster you can make progress. Okay, second question. How do you personally know you've got the double win? Not that it's ever perfect, by the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just not, you know. I know it when my wife feels supported and loved, when my kids feel connected, when they know they can interrupt me. Like there's been seasons where I now practice being interruptible for a small group of people, not everybody, but like that they can come into the office and not have to apologize when they come in.

1:00:51Like, yeah. Just go like, hey. So like for me, that's one of the, like, I'm getting the double win. That's fantastic. You know, it's interesting as we've asked this question now to a lot of people, the two answers we get are either my spouse is good or I feel peace. And I think they're a version of the same. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, it's so interesting. Is there a, this is the last question, is there a routine or a ritual that is really kind of cornerstone that helps you do what you do? Yeah. I am a timer fanatic. Like I can't – it's hard for me to focus. So since last July, so a year now, I've tracked like effort hours, like where I'm dialed in on something that matters and I'm paying attention.

1:01:35And I've tracked them in a notebook and I try to beat last month's total. So like setting a timer on my iPhone. By the way, you are an Enneagram 3 if there's any doubt. Okay, good. I've never thought of that. after you'll be like, he is crazy. But like for me, like that using a timer to go today, I'm going to do this. And then the other thing I'd say related to that is being deliberate about my time the day before, like knowing tomorrow. Okay. Like, so like today I'll review tomorrow and I'll go, and I do that every day and I do it all week. Like I knew on Monday, I got a meeting with guys on 7am Friday and I've got some other stuff.

1:02:14I'm not going to have time for a run. I need to run at 515. And knowing that gives me such peace. Like knowing I don't like to wake up without a plan where things are shapeless. Like I have a harder time on a shapeless Saturday than I do on a busy Friday. And again, working on it. But so knowing, being deliberate about my hours the day before. And the soundtrack I use for that is like night me is a decider, morning me is a doer. Like night me is a decider, morning me is a doer. Morning me will wake up and And if there's a list, let's go. Like heads down, go. If it wakes up and it's blank, morning me is like, yeah, maybe Instagram, huh?

1:02:49Like want to scroll a little bit? Like maybe. We're like, and night me is very good at going or late afternoon me is very good at going, here's the three things we're doing tomorrow. We're going to take care of this. Like, and there's just less stress. If I wake up on a Monday at 8 a.m. and I don't know what I'm doing, now I've got the stress of the week and it feels like it's breathing on me. If I do that Friday without the Monday breathing on me, completely different. Wow. So true. Well, the thing I'm wondering is why don't we get together more? I know. Man, I just, I love this. I know. We do a lot of the same things.

1:03:21I know. Yeah. This is so powerful. Well, if people want to find you, where do they find you online? Yeah. It's just johnacuff.com, J-O-N-A-C-U-F-F.com. I have a podcast called All It Takes is a Goal and All It Takes is a Goal and soundtracks are available everywhere books are sold. Man, well, if you've enjoyed this hour listening to John, you will enjoy his writing. So get his books. All It Takes is a Gold, the Soundtracks book, all the other books that you've written. I appreciate that. But that'd be a great place to start. Yeah. So thanks for stepping in today. Yeah, thanks for having me. Thanks for being here.

1:03:53Of course.

1:03:58Meg, what'd you think of that interview? I loved it so much. And I'm just going to be like totally honest, I was a little worried given all of John's work on goal achievement. I thought, what if he says something that is like in conflict with the philosophy of goal achievement that we teach? And in fact, it was the opposite. It was so complimentary. Of course, he has his own unique perspective, own unique story of kind of how he came to goals. And so I feel like I can easily wholeheartedly recommend him and his work. I mean, we've known him for a long time, but I just found that he's very relatable.

1:04:39I love it when people share their struggles. Me too. It's funny. It's like, it's hard to do that yourself, especially in a public setting, but it endears people to you. And it makes, it made me feel like, oh, this is possible for me too. You know, like, I mean, that may sound funny to say since we talk so much about goals, but we all struggle with certain aspects of goal achievement, of pursuing the double win. And just to hear that other people who are very accomplished also struggle, I don't know. It just made me feel good. You know, I think another takeaway for me was it's easy to think of a guy like John, who's very successful, an incredible public speaker, that he's kind of an overnight success.

1:05:15And maybe some of you haven't heard of him before, and all of a sudden you do. But I think he made it clear that this has been more than two decades in the making. Yeah. And he's put in his 10 ,000 hours. Yeah. You know, he's done all this stuff, including going to small towns and speaking and having to do all the things you have to do when you're just starting out. And I love that because it's easy to forget that. And it's easy if you're listening to this to compare where you are to where John is and say, oh my gosh, I guess I just must not be that good. No, you just need more reps in the gym.

1:05:43Yeah. Well, I loved his idea about contentment and ambition. Oh, that was incredible. Two things that can live in tension with each other in a really healthy way that you don't have to choose one or the other. Yeah, I love that too. And I think that, at least for me, when I hear things like that, where things seem like they're in conflict, I think Andy Stanley says it this way, these aren't things to resolve. There are things to hold in tension. Yeah, it's kind of like the tension actually keeps them both in their proper place. So on the one hand, contentment doesn't become complacency. And on the other hand, ambition doesn't become drivenness or narcissism.

1:06:22And I think that is a great way to frame that whole idea. Hope you guys enjoyed this show with John and we look forward to seeing you again next week where we'll have another amazing conversation with a significant thought leader.