KEN COLEMAN: Find The Work You're Wired To Do

25:11exploration is let's sit them in front of people who are winning in the space, who will be honest with these young people and say, here's the best part of my day. Here's the worst part of my day. Here's what I would avoid. Here's what I think you should do. And as that kid sits there, here's what I know to be true. The tuning fork of their heart will either go ding, ding, ding, or the family feud X. And it's that simple. And I've coached kids. I know that to be true. And so this is the number one challenge for parents. We feel so much cultural pressure to get our kid prepared? Is college the way?

25:40Is it trade school? We want our kids to win. And this kind of methodology, parents, all it does is it provides you and your child or you yourself this mirror where you can see yourself. This is who I really am. Now, what does that mean out here? And again, we must explore, okay, do I want to do people work, process work, idea work, or things work? You know, as you were talking, so my kids are 23, almost 21, 16, 14, 5. Wow. So we are literally doing it. You really, I'm going to pray extra for you today. The 23 to 5. I know. Just say a lot of prayers. Yeah, absolutely. So our oldest two are out of the house.

26:19And our oldest son, who's 23, is right smack in the middle of this, trying to figure out who he is, what he's made to do, what he's wired to do. And I'm just thinking that a great exercise would be to get this book, each of us to have a copy of this book. So if you're wondering, how do you take this assessment? You buy the book, find the work you're wired to do. It comes in the book. Yeah, it's like the old StrengthsFinder one where it's in there. You get the little code and you redeem it. But I'm thinking, how cool would it be for him to take this assessment, for my husband Joel and I to have taken it, and then have a family conversation about, here's how this self-knowledge looks for dad and I in our careers.

27:00Because now it's like, fast forward, we've already kind of done a lot of this work. And you can see, just like you were talking about with my dad and the influence, how that shows up, Finn, our oldest son, I think would then start to make connections. Oh, I mean, for sure, people is like everything about people is him. Yeah, absolutely. That makes his heart come alive. And I think he would feel a lot of permission. Yes. To be who he is instead of somebody he's not. Like you said, there's a lot of pressure to be somebody else. But anyway, I just want to encourage you if you're listening and you're thinking, okay, How might I be able to either use this with myself, my team, or definitely if you have young adult or teenage children, I really think this family conversation, we did a lot of that growing up.

27:41We did a lot of things where we would take assessments together and then talk about it. And we still do. And it gives you a common language. It really brings you closer together and you can appreciate your distinctives, your differences without them kind of driving you crazy. And in this case, there's a lot of clarity. Kids need to understand and adults need to hear this. your greatness lies within your uniqueness. It's not the other way around. Everybody's choosing to chase great. And I love that. We all want to root for a great team, go to a great concert, eat a great meal. We all want great, but very few people are willing to do what it takes to be great.

28:15And I think what it takes to be great is to be so completely self-aware of your unique wiring. And when you figure that out, everybody's favorite topic is themselves. Let's be honest. And, and so there really is,

28:31wonderful confidence that comes from it. In fact, here's what I think. I think that this assessment and the work that's done does three things for you. Number one, it gives you clarity of who you are, what you want to do, why you want to do it. You begin to go, oh, okay, this is why my heart may be a little faster about this. And then as this happens, I'm like, my brother loves to do this. I think he's crazy. And we begin to go, okay. And so clarity is first. And this is really fun. Clarity breeds confidence and confidence breeds courage. That's the magic. And so if we talk about being great professional, and that's the context by which I'm trying to help people make their mark professionally, you cannot do it absent of clarity.

29:19We can't be confident when we're not clear. And so if a person is mid-career or they're taking on some new challenges or whatever, or a kid's trying to find their path, we always want to drive people to clarity. That's my mission. Clarity on who you are. Because once we get that, the confidence takes over to go, okay, I know who I am. I know what I want to do, kind of why I want to do it. Now I got to figure out where. And that is a process. This doesn't tell you where. No assessment can. That'd be garbage. And I wouldn't promise that. But what it does is it gives you this job description. When I look at your statement, this is a purpose statement that everybody gets.

29:54Michael Hyatt, I was created to use my talents of instruction, inspection, and communication to perform my passions of leading, promoting, and creating to accomplish my mission of influence by producing change and progress. That's a job description. It is. That's awesome. Now, it's 35 ,000 feet. Right. But I can go look in the world of work and I can lay this over. Right. You're trying to match it up. Does this job allow me to spend 75 % of my day? This is the rubber meets the road. How do you really use this if you're trying to pick direction? Does this thing I'm looking at allow me to spend three-fourths of my day, rule of thumb, using what I do best to do what I enjoy to produce results that matter to me?

30:33That, by the way, is purpose. That's as plainly as I can say it. No extra oxygen in that sentence. If I use what I do best to do what I enjoy to produce results I care about, I am a happy person and probably really healthy and potentially very wealthy. Gosh. I love that. And it just gets you, I think, to the right job that'll give you the satisfaction faster. Yes. Because, you know, I think of Finn. And, you know, as he's trying to figure out what he wants to do with his life. And I was the same way when I was, you know, his age. But it's just, you feel like you're looking for a treasure. And you just got to stumble upon it because there's no strategy, no plan.

31:11It feels like you're waiting for lightning to strike. But if I said to you, it's on this island. I can't tell you where it's on the island, but it's on this island. And so don't look at all this other stuff. Yeah. That would have been a huge shortcut. Yeah. I'm going to give it to you right now. You ready? And I want you to use this with. Okay. Great. The three questions that everybody needs, and I walk them through this in the book. So once you get your results, the next thing I have you do, and I do this on the air. So I've done this about 10 ,000 times. Oh my goodness. Literally. I'm not kidding.

31:39Yeah. They keep a log of this. And so they're telling me we're approaching 10 ,000 calls. But when someone is at this point and they go, okay, I see this part. And really I do this as a cheat code. when somebody hasn't taken the assessment, I just go right to, who are the people you most want to help? And I make them answer it. Tell me the people. I want you to describe the people that if I could pay you, so forget about job title, forget about path. Who are the people you most want to help? Because by the way, that's what everybody wants to do is help people. It's just how am I helping? Is it through idea work?

32:10Is it process work? People are always on the other end of it. Okay. So I would look at Finn and go, who are the people right now? 23, it's okay. Who are they today? If you had a great salary tomorrow and you were just going to help these type of people, who would be the people? He will begin to ideate. Now, here's the second question. What's the problem or desire that they have? Now, he's already essentially identified that, but we're going a level deeper. This is brilliant. You're going to say it explicitly now. This is coaching. Yeah. So we go, who are the people who want to help? And so I'll give you an example.

32:39I had a lady call me on the show, I don't know, six months ago. And she said, Ken, you're not going to know what to do with me. I said, okay, shoot. She goes, I make$350 ,000 in pharmaceutical sales and I'm miserable. And she starts laughing. And I can tell this is not a miserable lady. Yeah. But this is a lady who's like just so blatantly honest. I said, this is great. So I said, this is going to be easy for you. And I said, who are the people you most want to help? She said, women. I said, be more specific. What are the problem or desire that these women have? And she goes, women that are struggling with their health, specifically their weight and their self-esteem.

33:13And I said, wow. I said, that's, that's powerful. And, uh, I said, uh, how, why is that the issue? Like, why is it health? And I knew what the answer was. I just needed her to say it. She goes, because six months ago I lost 60 pounds and it changed my life. She started crying. Now I stepped in with one little additional question, but the third and final question is what's the solution to that problem or desire. So I said, what's the solution to helping women get healthy. She goes, I'm great at sales. I want to be a nutritionist, a health coach, meet these women where they are, fire them up. Instead of selling them a product, I want to sell them a future.

33:53I was like, whoa, okay then. And that's changed your life at eight minutes. She's an extraordinary woman. But so those three questions for anybody, even if you never took my assessment and I, cause I want to give value to your audience. If, even if you never take this, if you just wrestle with those three questions, who are the people you most want to help? What is the problem or desire that you want to help them with? Because by the way, it doesn't have to be a problem. If you want to make women look beautiful with their hair, that's a desire. If you want to design clothing, my point is all work, good results.

34:24So what is the problem or desire that you want to help that person with? And then finally, what's the solution to that problem or desire that fires you up the most? So to give you a personal example, when I left Maxwell, Well, I felt that I was supposed to go into broadcasting. I love sports more than just about anything. So I went that route. I got on the air and I started doing sports radio in Atlanta. No small achievement, but something was missing. And what I realized was I wanted to help people who were struggling with a sense of purpose and a sense of meaning. It was a little bit of that ministry piece coming in, plus that personal experience I shared at the top.

35:05and it wasn't helping people enjoy more about their favorite sports team. Wow. So what was off was I wasn't getting the influence and the achievement piece of helping people. I was just entertaining. Okay. So if I were to walk through that exercise back then, I didn't have it for myself, but I eventually stumbled into it. Who are the people I most want to help? People who are lost. A little bit off. They're just off the path. What's the problem? a lack of self-awareness, a lack of understanding of that true, what's that North Star? And what's the solution to that that most fires you up? And I was like, speaking, writing, coaching.

35:44Now, this was before Dave Ramsey ever enters the picture and I could not articulate anything that I'm doing now. And so I want people to understand that's the beginning part of ideation. The ideas, the exploration, I think is as much in here and here. It is getting the head and the heart aligned. And that's really what I hope this tool does for people. It takes our head out of the game in the sense of we don't overthink because we're forced to deal with this is who we really are.

36:16We've talked a lot about how parents can help their kids using a tool like this. The thing I want to talk to you about is how could this help somebody who's a business leader or a business owner inside of their business. Yeah. Could it be used for hiring? Yeah. Could it be used for placing people in the right positions? It's both. And I think let's start with the leader first. I think you got to check yourself on this first, you know? So if you're taking this assessment back to that idea of do, do a little, uh, self-examination and they get your close team around you, maybe your personal assistant go, am I spending most of my day doing this kind of work?

36:48So we start there because you know this so well, uh, if you're going to start to implement this in the organization, they won't do what you aren't doing. True. And so if you start going, hey, so you're going to have to go, hey, guys, this is only breaking news to me. Okay. But I took this assessment and I realized that I've been doing some stuff. A lot of the stuff I'm doing is based on a service result. And I don't care about service at all. I just want to create, create, create. And that's okay. Like I'm the creative force of the small business and I'm getting involved in customer service stuff.

37:21Now I know I was grumpy to you. Larry, I bit your head off the other day in a meeting. That's what I'd like to see leaders do is first start with them and go, am I in my sweet spot here? Am I actually on purpose here? Then we go to the rest of the organization and go, hey, here's what we're going to do. Let's start looking at this. And I think this is going to help us free ourselves from stuff that may be draining us. And we begin to delegate. We begin to eliminate. And we make sure the people on the right see the bus. And then it turns out to be a really great team. You know, the great sports teams are marked by really one thing.

37:55Everybody knows their role, accepts their role, and maximizes their role. But I think the big miss in corporate America and even small business today is we have people walking around. They don't truly know their role because something's off. They know what their job description is. Yeah. But it doesn't feel like that's me. And we all do work where you go, this is me. Yeah. And when people don't know what they're supposed to do and they're not doing work that they care about, they disengage. 100%. And disengagement, in fact, we've got this quote from Gallup. Gallup, 68 %? Yeah. Two-thirds of workers, not engaged in the workers.

38:27And by the way, that number has not changed over the last decade. You can go look that up. Isn't that interesting? I study that stuff like crazy. And that, by the way, that is not meaning that 68 % of Americans hate their job. It's 68 % are essentially disengaged. The big phrase that took over about a year and a half ago is quiet quitting. Yeah. In other words, I'm going to do what I'm told. I'm going to deliver the results. You'll get the TPS report. when you're supposed to put the TPS report in. But outside of that, if I see one of my coworkers struggling and I know that I can help, I'm not going to go above and beyond.

38:56My heart's not in it. I'm not going to go to my leader and go, hey, you seem a little fried. Is there anything you can shove off on me? That's going above and beyond. This idea of knowing your role, accepting your role, maximizing your role. Great teams are made up of players who are showing up to the weight room at 5 a.m., team workouts at 8. They're watching film all the time. I know my job is to be a linebacker, but I'm going to go well above and beyond tackling and practicing. I'm going to study film. I'm going to help the new rookie linebacker that came in and go, hey, if I get hurt, you're next man up.

39:30And I plan on coming back from an injury, so you better freaking know how to play this. And I'm going to watch film with you. That's what I mean by – but you don't get that when you're disengaged. No, you don't. Engagement drives all that. We did the – I don't know if you guys do this at Ramsey, but we did the Inc. Best Places to Work survey. We do that every year. So the most recent one that came back said that we had a 93 % engaged workforce. That's amazing. And so I would say to people, if you're a leader or a manager or a CEO or a business owner, imagine what would happen if you went from a third of the people being engaged to 90 % engaged.

40:08What would be possible for your business? What would be possible for your desire to scale the business or to create a business that would run less dependent upon you? Well, we know from the Gallup data, productivity and profitability are the two outputs. When engagement goes up, of course, productivity goes up. As a result of that, profitability goes up. And so, as a matter of fact, I got to introduce you to the CEO of Gallup. Great guy. He came in and I interviewed him about a year ago. And then he invited me to DC. I spent three hours with him because I nerd out on all the Gallup data. I mean, I really study it all the time because of what I do, because I want to know what's going on.

40:41And he said this over and over again, and it all comes down to getting people. There's two, well, there's three human needs. This is all extra and not related necessarily to this. You're going to hear it here and only here. Well, no, it's in the Gallup data, but it was the largest engagement survey they ever did. 180 countries, employees across 180 countries, three human needs. Number one, purpose in your work. So this does matter to that. When people saw that, I'm built for this. You know, like this is, I get this. And by the way, the motivational piece is more important than the other two. Yeah.

41:13I'm not surprised. So purpose in their work was the number one human need. The number two human need was recognition for your unique contribution. So, hey, Meg, I saw what you did. You pulled that client aside on a break and I saw them change. And then they sent us an email. So, you know, it's a very specific private and public call out. I see what you're doing and it's very unique to them. And then the third thing is a relationship with their leader. So the three human needs, meaning and purpose and work, recognition for your unique contribution, and then a relationship with your leader. Now, the relationship with the leader is not, hey, let's go grab a beer and we're going fishing together.

41:54It's a coach relationship. And again, I'm bringing it full back to this question of how do you use this assessment? See, a coach is defined by someone who watches a player, if we use it in the athletic context, but it works in leadership. And I've got a player on my team and they're in this position. My job is to give them the training, the encouragement, the equipment to actually be good in that position. That's the coach's mandatory role. Outside of that, it is constant encouragement. Hey, you messed up on that play. No big deal. Next play. We'll look at the film later. You know, it's that constant, I believe in you.

42:38That's the transfer of belief. And so people need that. And one of the greatest ways a leader can absolutely use a tool like this is help somebody see themselves maybe the way they've never seen themselves before. And you talk about the loyalty and the drive. If you know that this leader helped me see me and I've never had anybody speak that over me. And I see this. And not only do they see it in me, they're placing me in a position where it feels kind of easy because I'm wired for it. You do that as a leader, watch out. Watch not only the engagement, but watch the longevity increase. And the other issue in the corporate world today is not just engagement.

43:20It is turnover, retention. And so you want to increase retention and have a longer life cycle. Listen, people aren't looking for a better job today. In 2024, and this always freaks the media out when I say this, people aren't looking for a better job. They're looking for a better life. Yep. And you had better start thinking about hiring a person and putting them in a position to where their life is better because of the job you put them in. Yeah. That's a different ballgame. Totally. Well, and talk about a competitive advantage. It's huge. Without question. Yeah. They're not going to – where are they going to go?

43:57Right. Right. Let them start kicking the tires. I think the biggest mistake a lot of employers make is that they think, when they're thinking about their employees, they're thinking, oh, you know, to retain employees, I got to pay them more. And it's all about the money. Employees don't think that way. I'm not going to say it's not important, but it's not the top thing. It's not. In fact, the data backs you up. The data backs you up that says that people would prefer a public recognition more than they would a pay raise. Isn't that so interesting? Now, that's shocking to people. but that's because don't forget we're all little boys and little girls so to have grown up that want to know, do you see me?

44:32Do you love me? Yep. And you never lose that. Never lose it. And in the work world, um, I, I think there are, if I was going to coach, if I was going to teach only one leadership lesson, I could teach it in less than five minutes and this would be the only leadership lesson I would ever teach. And that is every week you better sit with your direct reports and ask them two questions. How are you doing? how can I help you win in your job? The first question is a very personal question. They will not answer it fully right away. You'll have to keep that one up. They'll give you surface answers for a while because they're trying to figure out what's going on.

45:06Am I safe? What's your angle? Am I safe? And so over time, they will begin to answer that. And they'll say, well, I'm struggling. My mom had a stroke. Yeah. And she's going to be okay. But it will really freak me out. And I'm struggling. And in that moment as a leader, you got to go, hey, we got you. What's on your plate right now? What do you need? Well, what's best for you right now? And they're going to look at you like you got horns growing out of your head, but it's in that moment you have a chance to truly lead and go, I'll tell you what, let me pull the team together. We'll take this off of you.

45:38We're going to step in. Family matters. You go. You go, keep me posted. And when your head gets good, come on back. Now, let me tell you something. Wow. from that moment on you have built enormous trust with that one person so that first question how are you doing it's not walking by in the hallway how you doing no no how you doing you doing okay you doing good great and if they don't answer right away don't turn into Dr. Phil it'll come right you know because then it gets creepy that's going to take a little bit of time no I mean really yeah really you're not telling me you know because they're not used to that and so the second question is also important and that is How can I help you in in your job?

46:18Now, here's the weird thing about this. Until they begin to answer the first question, honestly, they'll never really give you the answer to the second question. Because to your point, they got to feel safe enough to go, hey, I'm struggling a little bit. Know that you actually care about them as a human. And then once you care about them as a human, that same person, that same person, I just used to say, but look at you and go, yeah, I don't have the software. The software that you gave us, it's just, it doesn't work. And they're still going to be a little cautious because it's hard to tell your boss.

46:47But when they know you care about them, they're going to be willing to go, well, I could use an assistant. I'm dying. I can't do the output that you're asking me to do. Only when they know you care about them will they actually trust you enough to say, I need your help. Wow. But that's really what's going on in the world of work today. That's why people leave. They leave leaders not sometimes because of what the leader did to them, but because of what the leader didn't do for them. Yeah. And I think if you can ask those two questions on a weekly basis. Say that again. Most people, yeah. Yeah. This is a big impact.

47:21Yeah. And this is coming from 10 ,000 people telling me why they're leaving. They're always leaving because of the leader. Always. They don't quit a job. They quit a leader. They quit a leader. Even if it's a great opportunity. Yep. They're leaving the leader. And most of the time, it's not because the leader did something to them in the form of an insult or pass them over or treat them with disrespect. But what the leader did not do for them. they will go where they feel cared for or they feel like there's some potential. Remember back to the statement, people want a better life. They will stay with you longer.

47:54They will follow you to the gates of hell if they believe that they are in a better situation in their life as a whole because they get to work with you. That's the challenge before leaders today. So understand what are you doing for your people? Well, I got news for you. Everything you're doing for them is worthless if they're not answering those two questions on a regular basis. I love that. Man, this has been so powerful. It really has. I hate that we have to wrap up because I have so many more questions. I know. We'll have to have you on again. I would love that. For sure. Thank you. I think this directly relates to the idea of the double win.

48:28Because if you're not ultimately spending the majority of your time in your desire zone, it's hard to win at work. And I think this is a great tool in this book, this assessment, to get clarity on what those things are in your desire zone. I love the desire zone, by the way. Yeah. It's pretty great. It really dovetails with this, too. It does. Yeah. It does. Similar, but yours is better. No, no, no, no. I think this is just a tool, but I love the way you describe the desire zone, and I would say that this will help you get there. I think so, too. I think it's a great diagnostic to help you get there.

49:10Before we are like done, done. Okay. I got to have you answer three questions. Rapid fire. Oh, my favorite thing. One sentence. And explain the double win to our listeners. Because they're listening to the double win podcast. So they probably know why they're here. Yeah, you probably know why you're here. But in case you just randomly searched for something and you found this podcast because you were just like a huge Ken Coleman fan. Right. We know that's what it was. The double win is winning at work and succeeding at life. So we don't want you just to succeed in the work domain. We want you to succeed in all of your life, including, you know, your relationships, money, your body, et cetera, et cetera.

49:45So first question is, what is your biggest obstacle in this season of your life to winning at work and succeeding at life? A lack of patience while completely driven by passion. It's really hard to. That's well said. It is. Okay. That's supposed to be one sentence. Yeah, that's it. You're going to. I get that. You understand that. Okay, so how do you personally know that you've gotten the double win, that you're winning at work and succeeding at life?

50:18When I am fulfilling the role of husband and father to the best of my ability, and I am growing in my ability to reach people, those are the measurements. That's great. That's really good. And then what's one ritual or routine that helps you do what you do? Reflection at the end of the day. Learn this from John Maxwell. He did it with a glass of red wine. He said in the hot tub, I do with a cigar and a glass of ginger beer. And I reflect on where I won, where I lost, and what I need to do different tomorrow because of the win or the loss. But what's that look like? Are you actually writing that down or are you talking through it with your wife?

51:01No, it's by myself. by myself and, and she doesn't like this cigar as a wife who, uh, formerly had a husband who smoked cigars. Not, I'm not formally a wife. I'm still a wife to the same husband. The cigars are former just to be clear. I feel sad for him, but I get it. Um, no, it's, it's actually, it's actually a form of meditation. I'm not writing it down. Um, it's, it's quiet and, uh, it's toward the end. I mean, everybody's kind of in bed and it's just, it's not every night's a cigar. That would be unhealthy. Good to know because I was going to talk to you about that. Yeah. No, but it's, it is a quiet moment by myself outside and I'm just running through the day rewinding while it's still fresh.

51:42That's great. Where did I win? Where did I lose? Why to both? And then what does that mean I need to do tomorrow? And that's become, it's become a really easy routine. It's not overwhelming. It's just kind of in the moment present. it. And it helps me because I'm such an emotional guy. And as I'm growing older, I'm learning the discipline of being present in my feelings, not letting my feelings drive the moment, but kind of sit back in it a little bit. And - Very healthy. It's really wise. Trying. Great amount of therapy. Yeah. I mean that. I mean that. Well, I think as Eddie Graham threes, we have a really hard time tapping into our emotions because it creates unproductivity.

52:27If I have to deal with an emotion, I can't be as productive. Yeah. So I just want to bury it. I'm going to confess something because I feel like I'm supposed to. Okay. Is that okay? Yeah. We're past time. That's okay.

52:40Being a three, if you're not careful, it's not about arrogance, at least for me. It is about being surrounded by measurements. Yeah. And this is the world that I've asked for. I've created. And one of the things I struggle with, I'll be 50 this year and still struggling with it is the desire to achieve and the desire to influence. If I'm not careful, I become my worst critic. It's not enough for me. And that's dangerous. And I'm just confessing that because it's got to be about people. It's true for me too. Because if I get caught up in the numbers. And I'm not even talking about comparison. That's part of it.

53:25But I mean, just what I will do to you. Beat the crap out of myself. Yeah. I mean, it's such a false narrative. You know, I can't, I can't be validated. I can't be whole. I can't, I mean, this is a whole other podcast, but seriously, you know, how, how we can show up in an unhealthy way, but I'm grateful. Thank you for confessing that. And, um, you know, I think I started some awareness of that about the time I was 50. But it wasn't until I got into therapy, this is a plug for therapists, until I got into meeting with a therapist on a regular basis that that started to change. And my therapist said to me, he said, you know, the thing about therapy is only the healthy people come.

54:05You know, the people that are really, really unhealthy, they don't want to come. So good for you for going. And don't feel like it's an admission if you're listening to this and thinking, well, I would never do therapy because what does that say about me? Well, it says you want to grow. It says you want to be healthy. You want to show up as a better version of yourself. That's excellent. Well, if you're wondering what your next step is, it's to get this book, to take the assessment, find the work you're wired to do. You can get it anywhere books are sold, anywhere else people should look to find you.

54:34KenColeman.com. That's where they can figure everything out. Excellent. You can figure out your whole life, literally. There. Thanks, buddy. You've been everything I'd hoped. Thank you. Appreciate you guys. Good to be with you.

54:51Well, that was such a fun conversation. I mean, man, we have a lot in common with Ken. Well, Ken's one of the funniest people I've ever met. Yeah. You know, he's just very witty and just, you know, always on his toes. And I've always enjoyed being with him for that reason. And by the way, you know, he really kind of got his start, not only doing the work behind the scenes, but on stage like as an emcee. Yeah, I remember that. And he was so fun. So LeaderCast, we've done some things there together as well. But why does this resonate with you? Well, I think what I appreciate about Ken, and I think this is near and dear to our heart, is that he has a high view of work.

55:29And I think that we're living in a time in our culture where sometimes, you think about the quiet quitting that was happening post-COVID, some of the things that we're seeing about burnout, engagement, all that kind of stuff, which some of which we talked about in the conversation that almost like work is the enemy and the goal of it is to do like as little as possible and and like that's not where your real life happens your real life happens outside of work and it's almost like work is the enemy and that may sound funny coming from us because we always talk about the double win winning at work and succeeding at life um and really what we're trying to do is is correct for work being people over indexing for work you know people like you guys who are high achievers who are probably prone to working too much and neglecting other areas of your life.

56:14But it's not because we think work is bad. In fact, we think work is inherently good. And that comes from our faith based perspective. We believe that work is good and that it's redemptive and sanctifying and fulfilling and all of those things. And Ken does too. And so I think his assessment helps us get clearer on what our highest and best contribution is. And it really overlaps kind of with the the freedom compass that we talk a lot about. Well, I was going to say that, you know, the thing that I really resonated with, it sounds very similar to the freedom compass. Yeah. And I think the reason that we created the freedom compass, and by the way, that's found in my book, free to focus.

56:54But the reason we like that is because it helps you identify the specific kind of work where your passion and your proficiency come together, what you love and what you're good at. And Ken does that too. You know, that's where you're going to have the most, create the most leverage, have the most impact in the world when you're focused on that kind of work and when you're feeling the most work-life satisfaction. But he has a slightly different model, but it basically gets at the same thing where people can be deployed to do their best work. And not just any work, but the work that really aligns with who God made them to be.

57:29Yep. I love that. And I think he's very practical in how he thinks about that. And I felt like he shared some really good practical solutions and applications that will really help people to put this into practice in their own lives. Yeah. And so we would just encourage you guys to go take the assessment. This will be in the show notes. It's called the Get Clear Career Assessment. And it's definitely worth taking. And it might be something you want to do with your entire team and then discuss the results. I also think this is a cool thing to do if you have adult children. I haven't done this yet with my adult children, but I think that they would really benefit from this because one of the things happening with young people, and I know this is an area of passion for Ken is there are so many options.

58:10It's like paralyzing. It is. You know, that has not always historically been true, but it is true now. And so we need things that help us get clearer among those, those options so we can make a decision about, you know, what to pursue in our life. And just, and just narrow down the options. And just narrow it down. And this is a great mechanism for doing that. Yeah. Well, thank you guys so much for listening this week. I hope you've enjoyed this conversation with Ken Coleman. And if you have, I would love to ask you to review the show. That really helps us get this message of the double win, winning at work and succeeding at life to more people.

58:44We want to get that message out. So if you will review the show and if you can give us five stars, that helps us put it on the radar of other people like you who also want to win at work and succeed at life. So thanks so much for listening and we'll look forward to another great conversation next week. Thank you.