SUMMER REPLAY: KEN COLEMAN: Find the Work You're Wired To Do

19:56Ken Coleman:Well, let's see where you score. You're right. Let me flip to it here. so here you can see and for our listener and viewer service achievement and creation are above the average line so when it comes to the missional drivers for you that don't motivate you is efficiency and solution so in other words don't come to michael hyatt and say i need you to figure out how to make this process a lot more efficient you're gonna go brain freeze right right same thing with solution hey we got a big problem there's a real cog in the wheel here we need you that is not interested. But if we come to you and say, hey, what you're going to be doing here is going to be serving leaders, you're all in.

20:33Ken Coleman:Right. If it's, hey, we want to drive this podcast. We want to drive the audience by 25 % this year. We think if we do this, this, and this, it'll do it. You in, you're going, let's go. Why haven't we already started? Yeah, exactly. Absolutely. And I'm making this up. And then the creation piece. I mean, that's how you come up with all these different products and services that your company has done for years. And then even as a publisher, there's that creative element where you're going, is this something we want to create? Yeah, exactly. Is this a book that we think we're going to put our stamp on?

21:06Ken Coleman:So that is very, very true to you. And that's why this is huge. So what this creates then is if I were going to create a product with you and I'd say, all right, we got to create a measurement tool, which probably we should do this, where people look at their work. If I followed a high performer or a CEO around for a day and I just hung in the shadows. And I would mark down a little description of all the work they did in the day. And then I'd sit and they go, did this lift you or did this drain you? And that's essentially, it would line up with this. Any work that's efficiency driven or solving problems drains you.

21:39Not me, totally. Does this move around over time a little bit?

21:43Ken Coleman:I think it's possible. The reason I say that is I don't think service would have been as high as it is on there years ago, but I'm in a season of my life where my friend Ian Cron said, my mission is to grow fruit on other people's trees. So service right now is a real focus, but I think it probably would have been younger or earlier in my career, influence and achievement. 100%. So the answer is yes. And when I mean it can, it just means how have you changed? Because remember, the missional result is all heart and so is passion. The way I describe it is we've got three measurements in this, the three wires, talent's just all head knowledge.

22:19Ken Coleman:Yeah, I know I'm good at this. People have told me I'm good at my whole life. There's no, but what I love to do and what motivates me, that does change. Your results will change as your heart changes. Do you think if you're a young person beginning your career and you sort of buy into this idea that I need to be doing work that I love, do you think that's a little bit of trial and error to figure out what you love and takes time or that maybe even earlier in your career, you have to do stuff you don't exactly love and just kind of put in your reps. Yes. I, you know, I'm having fun with that, but yes.

22:54Ken Coleman:And I think it's both. It depends on the person. Here's something interesting. Uh, there's research out there that has shown that a lot of adults who make a career pivot in their, in their thirties and forties retreat or pivot to this thing that they fantasized about when they were as early as nine or 10 years of age. Yeah, that's a fascinating thing. So there's a little something. Then I'm going to be an astronaut. Yeah, right. I wouldn't go to five, you know what I mean? Yeah. Because like a five-year-old sees a taxi driver and goes, I want to be, you know, they have no idea. But I do think there's, I point this out because I do believe with certain people, and I'm saying this with a, you know, we've got to hold this loosely.

23:31Ken Coleman:I do think with certain people that they can know very early on. And in fact, we've created a student version of this and we've tested it with high schoolers. Oh, really? And it absolutely reads their mail as well. They're able to understand it. They don't have any work history. But again, you take a student. Okay. So for parents listening in here, you're 16, 17, 18 year old. They can get a lot out of an exercise like this because they still have academic and extracurricular activities that they can draw from that say, I'm good at this. Yeah. And I enjoy doing this, you know. And so back to your question of the discovery piece.

24:09Ken Coleman:Let's say that a young high schooler wants to, is considering nursing. Let's say they take this and they score really high on service. By the way, they'll have the huge gift of compassion. Anybody that goes into health, you'll see the result, the talent of compassion big time up there. Because they just walk around with their heart out in front and they just want to help people. So in that situation, if your daughter or son says, hey, nursing's the play for me, go, that's great. Here's what I think you should do. Let's make a list of all the types of nurses there are. Well, we get the nurse that checks you in.

24:45Ken Coleman:That's largely administrative. And some kindness and customer service. We got the nurse who's in the operating room. That's big time. We got the nurse in the ER. Hello, that's chaos. A lot of different things going on. We got the labor and delivery nurse. Oh, that's amazing. Babies. You know, you got the NICU nurse caring for the sick little babies. And in the dark days of a parent's life, they're just hanging on, hoping their baby makes it. So my point is I could keep going. So what I want to do there is, is I want to get that young person in the seat across from somebody in all of those fields.

25:16Ken Coleman:And as they begin to ask questions, tell me what your day is like. Tell me what the hardest part of your gig is. And maybe they see their nurse cry and say the hardest thing is not knowing what to say to a parent who's just, oh, yeah, I don't know. But my point is, as we put them in that environment, this is to your question of the exploration. Exploration doesn't have to be, you know, this, I go try this for two years and I try this. Exploration is, let's sit them in front of people who are winning in the space, who will be honest with these young people and say, here's the best part of my day.

25:45Ken Coleman:Here's the worst part of my day. Here's what I would avoid. Here's what I think you should do. And as that kid sits there, here's what I know to be true. The tuning fork of their heart will either go ding, ding, ding, or the family feud X. And it's that simple. And I've coached kids. I know that to be true. And so this is the number one challenge for parents. We feel so much cultural pressure to get our kid prepared. Is college the way? Is it trade school? We want our kids to win. And this kind of methodology, parents, all it does is it provides you and your child or you yourself this mirror where you can see yourself.

26:18Ken Coleman:This is who I really am. Now, what does that mean out here? And again, we must explore, okay, do I want to do people work, process work, idea work, or things work? You know, as you were talking, so my kids are 23, almost 21, 16, 14, 5. Wow. So we are literally doing it. You really, I'm going to pray extra for you today. The 23 to 5. I know. Just say a lot of prayers. So our oldest two are out of the house and our oldest son, who's 23, is right smack in the middle of this, trying to figure out who he is, what he's made to do, what he's wired to do. And I'm just thinking that a great exercise would be to get this book, each of us to have a copy of this book.

27:02So if you're wondering, how do you take this assessment? You buy the book, find the work you're wired to do.

27:07Ken Coleman:Yeah, it comes in the book. Yeah, it's like the old Strength Finder one where it's in there. You get the little code and you redeem it. But I'm thinking, how cool would it be for him to take this assessment for my husband, Joel, and I to have taken it and then have a family conversation about here's how this self-knowledge looks for dad and I in our careers? Because now it's like fast forward, like we've already we've already kind of done a lot of this work. And you can see just like you were talking about with my dad and influence, how that shows up. Finn, our oldest son, I think would then start to make connections.

27:38Oh, I mean, for for sure, people is like everything about people is him.

27:42Ken Coleman:Yeah, absolutely. That makes his heart come alive. And I think he would feel a lot of permission to be who he is instead of somebody he's not. Like you said, there's a lot of pressure to be somebody else. But anyway, I just want to encourage you if you're listening and you're thinking, okay, how might I be able to either use this with myself, my team, or definitely if you have young adult or teenage children. I really think this family conversation, we did a lot of that growing up. We did a lot of things where we would take assessments together and then talk about it. We still do. And it gives you a common language.

28:14It really brings you closer together. And you can appreciate your distinctives, your differences, without them kind of driving you crazy. And in this case, there's a lot of clarity.

28:23Ken Coleman:Here's what kids need to understand, and adults need to hear this. Your greatness lies within your uniqueness. It's not the other way around. Everybody's choosing to chase great, and I love that. We all want to root for a great team, go to a great concert, eat a great meal. We all want great. But very few people are willing to do what it takes to be great. And I think what it takes to be great is to be so completely self-aware of your unique wiring. And when you figure that out, everybody's favorite topic is themselves. Let's be honest. And so there really is wonderful confidence that comes from it.

28:59Ken Coleman:In fact, here's what I think. I think that this assessment and the work that's done does three things for you. Number one, it gives you clarity. Who you are, what you want to do, why you want to do it. You begin to go, oh, okay, this is why my heart may be a little faster about this. And then as this happens, I'm like, my brother loves to do this. I think he's crazy. And we begin to go, okay. And so clarity is first. And this is really fun. Clarity breeds confidence. And confidence breeds courage. That's the magic. And so if we talk about being great professional, and that's the context by which I'm trying to help people make their mark professionally, you cannot do it absent of clarity.

29:46Ken Coleman:We can't be confident when we're not clear. And so if a person is mid-career or they're taking on some new challenges or whatever, or a kid's trying to find their path, we always want to drive people to clarity. That's my mission. and clarity on who you are. Because once we get that, the confidence takes over to go, okay, I know who I am. I know what I want to do, kind of why I want to do it. Now I got to figure out where. And that is a process. This doesn't tell you where. No assessment can. That'd be garbage. And I wouldn't promise that. But what it does is it gives you this job description.

30:17Ken Coleman:When I look at your statement, this is a purpose statement that everybody gets. Michael Hyatt, I was created to use my talents of instruction, inspection, and communication to perform my passions of leading, promoting, and creating to accomplish my mission of influence by producing change and progress. That's a job description. It is. That's awesome. Now it's 35 ,000 feet. Right. But I can go look in the world of work and I can lay this over. Right. You're trying to match it up. Does this job allow me to spend 75 % of my day? This is the rubber meets the road. How do you really use this if you're trying to pick direction?

30:49Ken Coleman:Does this thing I'm looking at Allow me to spend three-fourths of my day, rule of thumb, using what I do best to do what I enjoy to produce results that matter to me. That, by the way, is purpose. That's as plainly as I can say it. No extra oxygen in that sentence. If I use what I do best to do what I enjoy to produce results I care about, I am a happy person and probably really healthy and potentially very wealthy. Gosh. I love that. And it just gets you, I think, to the right job that will give you the satisfaction faster. Yes. Because, you know, I think of Finn. And, you know, as he's trying to figure out what he wants to do with his life.

31:27And I was the same way when I was, you know, his age. But it's just, you feel like you're looking for a treasure. And you just got to stumble upon it because there's no strategy, no plan. It feels like you're waiting for lightning to strike. But if I said to you, it's on this island. I can't tell you where it's on the island, but it's on this island. And so don't look at all this other stuff. Yeah. That would have been a huge shortcut. Yeah.

31:51Ken Coleman:I'm going to give it to you right now. You ready? And I want you to use this with. Okay. Great. The three questions that everybody needs, and I walk them through this in the book. So once you get your results, the next thing I have you do, and I do this on the air. So I've done this about 10 ,000 times. Oh my goodness. Literally. I'm not kidding. Yeah. They keep a log of this. And so they're telling me we're approaching 10 ,000 calls. But when someone is at this point and they go, okay, I see this part. And really I do this as a cheat code. when somebody hasn't taken the assessment, I just go right to, who are the people you most want to help?

32:20Ken Coleman:And I make them answer it. Tell me the people. I want you to describe the people that if I could pay you, so forget about job title, forget about path, who are the people you most want to help? Because by the way, that's what everybody wants to do is help people. It's just how am I helping? Is it through idea work? Is it process work? People are always on the other end of it. Okay. So I would look at Finn and go, who are the people right now? 23, it's okay. Who are they today? If you had a great salary tomorrow and you were just going to help these type of people, who would be the people? He will begin to ideate.

32:52Ken Coleman:Now, here's the second question. What's the problem or desire that they have? Now, he's already essentially identified that, but we're going a level deeper. This is great. You're going to say it explicitly now. This is coaching. Yeah. So we go, who are the people who want to help? And so I'll give you an example. I had a lady call me on the show, I don't know, six months ago. And she said, Ken, you're not going to know what to do with me. I said, okay, shoot. She goes, I make$350 ,000 in pharmaceutical sales and I'm miserable. And she starts laughing. And I can tell this is not a miserable lady.

33:20Ken Coleman:Yeah. But this is a lady who's like just so blatantly honest. I said, this is great. So I said, this is going to be easy for you. And I said, who are the people you most want to help? She said, women. I said, be more specific. What are the problem or desire that these women have? And she goes, women that are struggling with their health, specifically their weight and their self-esteem. And I said, wow. I said, that's, that's powerful. And, uh, I said, uh, how, why is that the issue? Like, why is it health? And I knew what the answer was. I just needed her to say it. She goes, because six months ago I lost 60 pounds and it changed my life.

33:58She started crying.

34:00Ken Coleman:Now I stepped in with one little additional question, but the third and final question is what's the solution to that problem or desire. So I said, what's the solution to helping women get healthy. She goes, I'm great at sales. I want to be a nutritionist, a health coach, meet these women where they are, fire them up. Instead of selling them a product, I want to sell them a future. I was like, whoa. Okay then. She's an extraordinary woman. But so those three questions for anybody, even if you never took my assessment and I, cause I want to give value to your audience. If, even if you never take this, if you just wrestle with those three questions, who are the people you most want to help?

34:37Ken Coleman:What is the problem or desire that you want to help them with? Because by the way, it doesn't have to be a problem. If you want to make women look beautiful with their hair, that's a desire. If you want to design clothing, that is my point is all work, good results. So what is the problem or desire that you want to help that person with? And then finally, what's the solution to that problem or desire that fires you up the most? So to give you a personal example, when I left Maxwell, Well, I felt that I was supposed to go into broadcasting. I love sports more than just about anything. So I went that route.

35:10Ken Coleman:I got on the air and I started doing sports radio in Atlanta. No small achievement, but something was missing. And what I realized was I wanted to help people who were struggling with a sense of purpose and a sense of meaning. It was a little bit of that ministry piece coming in, plus that personal experience I shared at the top. and, and, and it wasn't helping people enjoy more about their favorite sports team. Wow. So what was off was I wasn't getting the influence and the achievement piece of helping people. I was just entertaining. Okay. So if I were to walk through that exercise back then, I didn't have it for myself, but I eventually stumbled into it.

35:49Ken Coleman:Who are the people I most want to help? People who are lost a little bit off. They're just off the path. What's the problem? a lack of self-awareness, a lack of understanding of that true, what's that North Star? And what's the solution to that that most fires you up? And I was like, speaking, writing, coaching. Now, this was before Dave Ramsey ever enters the picture and I could not articulate anything that I'm doing now. And so I want people to understand that's the beginning part of ideation. The ideas, the exploration, I think is as much in here and here. It is getting the head and the heart aligned.

36:26Ken Coleman:And that's really what I hope this tool does for people. It takes our head out of the game in the sense of we don't overthink because we're forced to deal with this is who we really are.

36:42We've talked a lot about how parents can help their kids using a tool like this. The thing I want to talk to you about is how could this help somebody who's a business leader or a business owner inside of their business? Yeah. Could it be used for hiring? Yeah. Could it be used for placing people in the right positions?

37:00Ken Coleman:It's both. And I think let's start with the leader first. I think you got to check yourself on this first. So if you're taking this assessment back to that idea of do a little self-examination and they get your close team around you, maybe your personal assistant, go, am I spending most of my day doing this kind of work? So we start there. Yeah. Because you know this so well. If you're going to start to implement this in the organization, they won't do what you aren't doing. True. And so if you start going, hey, so you're going to have to go, hey, guys, this is only breaking news to me. Okay. But I took this assessment and I realized that I've been doing some stuff.

37:35Ken Coleman:A lot of the stuff I'm doing is based on a service result. And I don't care about service at all. I just want to create, create, create. And that's okay. Like I'm the creative force of the small business. And I'm getting involved in customer service stuff. Now I know I was grumpy to you. Larry, I bit your head off the other day in a meeting. That's what I'd like to see leaders do is first start with them and go, am I in my sweet spot here? Am I actually on purpose here? Then we go to the rest of the organization and go, hey, here's what we're going to do. Let's start looking at this. And I think this is going to help us free ourselves from stuff that may be draining us.

38:10Ken Coleman:And we begin to delegate. We begin to eliminate. And we make sure the people on the right see the bus. And then it turns out to be a really great team. You know, the great sports teams are marked by really one thing. Everybody knows their role, accepts their role, and maximizes their role. But I think the big miss in corporate America and even small business today is we have people walking around. They don't truly know their role because something's off. They know what their job description is. Yeah. But it doesn't feel like that's me. And we all do work where you go, this is me. Yeah. And when people don't know what they're supposed to do and they're not doing work that they care about, they disengage.

38:47100%. And disengagement, in fact, we got this quote from Gallup. 68 %? Yeah. Two-thirds of workers not engaged in the workers.

38:54Ken Coleman:By the way, that number has not changed over the last decade. You can go look that up. That's not interesting. I study that stuff like crazy. By the way, that is not meaning that 68 % of Americans hate their job. It's 68 % are essentially disengaged. The big phrase that took over about a year and a half ago was quiet quitting. In other words, I'm going to do what I'm told. I'm going to deliver the results. You'll get the TPS report when you're supposed to put the TPS report in. But outside of that, if I see one of my coworkers struggling and I know that I can help, I'm not going to go above and beyond.

39:22Ken Coleman:My heart's not in it. I'm not going to go to my leader and go, hey, you seem a little fried. Is there anything you can shove off on me? That's going above and beyond. This idea of knowing your role, accepting your role, maximizing your role. Great teams are made up of players who are showing up to the weight room at 5 a.m., team workouts at 8. They're watching film all the time. I know my job is to be a linebacker, but I'm going to go well above and beyond tackling and practicing. I'm going to study film. I'm going to help the new rookie linebacker that came in and go, hey, if I get hurt, you're next man up.

39:57Ken Coleman:And I plan on coming back from an injury, so you better freaking know how to play this. And I'm going to watch film with you. That's what I mean by like, but you don't get that when you're disengaged. No, you don't. Engagement drives all that. We did the, I don't know if you guys do this at Ramsey, but we did the Inc. Best Places to Work survey. We do that every year. So the most recent one that came back said that we had a 93 % engaged workforce. That's amazing. And so I would say to people, if you're a leader or a manager or a CEO or a business owner, imagine what would happen if you went from a third of the people being engaged to 90 % engaged.

40:35What would be possible for your business? What would be possible for your desire to scale the business or to create a business that would run less dependent upon you?

40:42Ken Coleman:Well, we know from the Gallup data, productivity and profitability are the two outputs. When engagement goes up, of course, productivity goes up. As a result of that, profitability goes up. And so, as a matter of fact, I got to introduce you to the CEO of Gallup. Great guy. He came in and I interviewed him about a year ago. And then he invited me to DC. I spent three hours with him because I nerd out on all the Gallup data. I mean, I really study it all the time because of what I do, because I want to know what's going on. And he said this over and over again, and it all comes down to getting people.

41:14Ken Coleman:There's two, well, there's three human needs. This is all extra and not related necessarily to this. You're going to hear it here and only here. Well, no, it's in the Gallup data, but it was the largest engagement survey they ever did. 180 countries, employees across 180 countries, three human needs. Number one, purpose in your work. So this does matter to that. When people saw that, I'm built for this, you know, like this is, I get this. And by the way, the motivational piece is more important than the other two. Yeah. I'm not surprised. So purpose in their work was the number one human need.

41:44Ken Coleman:The number two human need was recognition for your unique contribution. So, hey, Meg, I saw what you did. You pulled that client aside on a break and I saw them change. And then they sent us an email. So, you know, it's a very specific private and public call out. I see what you're doing and it's very unique to them. And then the third thing is a relationship with their leader. So the three human needs, meaning and purpose and work, recognition for your unique contribution, and then a relationship with your leader. Now, the relationship with the leader is not, hey, let's go grab a beer and we're going fishing together.

42:21Ken Coleman:It's a coach relationship. And again, I'm bringing it full back to this question of how do you use this assessment? See, a coach is defined by someone who watches a player, if we use it in the athletic context, but it works in leadership. And I've got a player on my team and they're in this position. My job is to give them the training, the encouragement, the equipment to actually be good in that position. That's the coach's mandatory role. Outside of that, it is constant encouragement. Hey, you messed up on that play. No big deal. Next play. We'll look at the film later. You know, it's that constant, I believe in you.

43:04Ken Coleman:That's the transfer of belief. And so people need that. And one of the greatest ways a leader can absolutely use a tool like this is help somebody see themselves maybe the way they've never seen themselves before. And you talk about the loyalty and the drive. If you know that this leader helped me see me and I've never had anybody speak that over me. And I see this. And not only do they see it in me, they're placing me in a position where it feels kind of easy because I'm wired for it. You do that as a leader. Watch out. Watch not only the engagement, but watch the longevity increase. And the other issue in the corporate world today is not just engagement.

43:47Ken Coleman:It is turnover, retention. And so you want to increase retention and have a longer life cycle. Listen, people aren't looking for a better job today. In 2024, and this always freaks the media out when I say this, people aren't looking for a better job. They're looking for a better life. Yep. And you had better start thinking about hiring a person and putting them in a position to where their life is better because of the job you put them in. Yeah. That's a different ballgame. Totally. Well, and talk about a competitive advantage. It's huge. Without question. Yeah. They're not going to – where are they going to go?

44:23Right.

44:24Ken Coleman:Right. Let them start kicking the tires. I think the biggest mistake a lot of employers make is that they think, when they're thinking about their employees, they're thinking, oh, to retain employees, I've got to pay them more. And it's all about the money. Employees don't think that way. I'm not saying it's not important, but it's not the top thing. It's not. In fact, the data backs you up. The data backs you up that says that people would prefer a public recognition more than they would a pay raise. Isn't that so interesting? Now, that's shocking to people. But that's because, don't forget, we're all little boys and little girls that have grown up that want to know, do you see me?

44:59Ken Coleman:Do you love me? Yep. You never lose that. Never lose it. And in the work world, I think there are, if I was going to coach, if I was going to teach only one leadership lesson, I could teach it in less than five minutes. And this would be the only leadership lesson I would ever teach. And that is every week, you better sit with your direct reports and ask them two questions. How are you doing? how can I help you win in your job? The first question is a very personal question. They will not answer it fully right away. You'll have to keep that one up. They'll give you surface answers for a while because they're trying to figure out what's going on.

45:33Am I safe? What's your angle? Am I safe?

45:35Ken Coleman:And so over time they will begin to answer that and they'll say, well, I'm struggling. My mom had a stroke. Yeah. And she's gonna be okay. They're really freaked me out and I'm struggling. And in that moment as a leader, you got to go, Hey, we got you. What's on your plate right now. What do you need? Well, what's best for you right now? And they're going to look at you like you got horns growing out of your head, but it's in that moment you have a chance to truly lead and go, I'll tell you what, let me pull the team together. We'll take this off of you. We're going to step in. Family matters.

46:07Ken Coleman:You go. You go, keep me posted. And when your head gets good, come on back. Now, let me tell you something. From that moment on, you have built enormous trust with that one person. So that first question, how are you doing? It's not walking by in the hallway. How you doing? No, no. How you doing? You doing okay? You're doing good? Great. And if they don't answer right away, don't turn into Dr. Phil. It'll come. Right. You know, cause then it gets creepy. You're like, that's, that's going to take a little bit of time. I mean, really? Yeah, really. You're not telling me, you know, cause cause they, they, they, they don't, they're not used to that.

46:39Ken Coleman:And so the second question is also important. And that is, how can I help you in your job? Now, here's the weird thing about this. Until they begin to answer the first question, honestly, they'll never really give you the answer to the second question. Because to your point, they got to feel safe enough to go, hey, I'm struggling a little bit. Know that you actually care about them as a human. And then once you care about them as a human, that same person, that same person, I just used the example, will look at you and go, yeah, I don't have the software. the software that you gave us, it doesn't work.

47:10Ken Coleman:And they're still going to be a little cautious because it's hard to tell your bosses. But when they know you care about them, they're going to be willing to go, well, I could use an assistant. I'm dying. I can't do the output that you're asking me to do. Only when they know you care about them will they actually trust you enough to say, I need your help. But that's really what's going on in the world of work today. That's why people leave. They leave leaders, not sometimes because of what the leader did to them, but because of what the leader didn't do for them. Yeah. And I think if you can ask those two questions on a weekly basis.

47:44Say that again. Most people.

47:45Ken Coleman:Yeah. Yeah. This is a big impact. Yeah. And this is coming from 10 ,000 people telling me why they're leaving. They're always leaving because of the leader. Always. They don't quit a job. They quit a leader. They quit a leader. Even if it's a great opportunity. Yep. They're leaving leader. And most of the time, it's not because the leader did something to them in the form of an insult or pass them over or treat them with disrespect. But what the leader did not do for them. Wow. They will go where they feel cared for or they feel like there's some potential. Remember back to the statement, people want a better life?

48:19Ken Coleman:They will stay with you longer. They will follow you to the gates of hell if they believe that they are in a better situation in their life as a whole because they get to work with you. That's the challenge before leaders today. So understand what are you doing for your people? Well, I got news for you. Everything you're doing for them is worthless if they're not answering those two questions on a regular basis. I love that. Man, this has been so powerful. It really has. I hate that we have to wrap up because I have so many more questions. I know. We'll have to have you on again. I would love that.

48:51For sure. I think this directly relates to the idea of the double win, because if you're not ultimately spending the majority of your time in your desire zone, it's hard to win at work. And I think this is a great tool in this book, this assessment, to get clarity on what those things are in your desire zone. I love the desire zone, by the way. Yeah. It's pretty great. It really dovetails with this, too. It does. Yeah. It does. Similar, but yours is better.

49:19Ken Coleman:No, no, no, no. No, I think this is just a tool, but I love the way you describe the desire zone. And I would say that this will help you get there. I think so too. I think it's a great diagnostic to help you get there.

49:37Before we are like done, done. Okay. I got to have you answer three questions. Rapid fire. Oh, my favorite thing. One sentence. And explain the double wind to our, our listeners. Because they're listening to the double wind podcast. so they probably know why they're here. Yeah, you probably know why you're here. But in case you just randomly searched for something and you found this podcast because you were just like a huge Ken Coleman fan.

49:57Ken Coleman:Right, we know that's what it was. The double win is winning at work and succeeding at life. So we don't want you just to succeed in the work domain. We want you to succeed in all of your life, including your relationships, money, your body, et cetera, et cetera. So first question is, what is your biggest obstacle in this season of your life to winning at work and succeeding at life? a lack of patience while completely driven by passion. It's really hard to - That's well said. It is. Okay. That's great. I'm supposed to do one sentence. That's it. I get that. You understand that. Okay. So how do you personally know that you've gotten the double win, that you're winning at work and succeeding at life?

50:45Ken Coleman:when I am fulfilling the role of husband and father to the best of my ability and I am growing in my ability to reach people, those are the measurements. That's great. That's really good. And then what's one ritual or routine that helps you do what you do? Reflection at the end of the day. learned this from john maxwell he did it with a glass of red wine he said in the hot tub i do with a cigar and a glass of ginger beer and i reflect on where i won where i lost and what i need to do different tomorrow because of the win or the loss but what's that look like are you are you actually writing that down or are you talking through it with your wife or you know it's by myself by myself and she doesn't like this cigar as a wife who uh formerly had a husband who smoked cigars.

51:36I'm not formally a wife. I'm still a wife to the same husband. The cigars are former. Just to be clear. I feel sad for him, but I get it.

51:45Ken Coleman:No, it's actually a form of meditation. I'm not writing it down. It's quiet and it's toward the end. I mean, everybody's kind of in bed and it's just, it's not every night's a cigar. That would be unhealthy. Good to know, because I was going to talk to you about that. Yeah. No, but it is a quiet moment by myself outside and I'm just running through the day, rewinding while it's still fresh. That's great. Where did I win? Where did I lose? Why? To both. And then what does that mean I need to do tomorrow? And that's become a really easy routine. It's not overwhelming. It's just kind of in the moment present.

52:24And it helps me because I'm such an emotional guy.

52:29Ken Coleman:And as I'm growing older, I'm learning the discipline of being present in my feelings, not letting my feelings drive the moment, but kind of sit back in it a little bit. Very healthy. It's really wise. Trying. Great amount of therapy. Yeah. I mean that. I mean that. Well, I think it's any grand threes. We have a really hard time tapping into our emotions because it creates unproductivity. If I have to deal with an emotion, I can't be as productive. Yeah. So I just want to bury it. I'm going to confess something because I feel like I'm supposed to. Okay. Is that okay? Yeah. We're past time. That's okay.

53:06Ken Coleman:Being a three, if you're, if you're not careful, it's not about arrogance, at least for me. It is about being surrounded by measurements. Yeah. And this is the world that I've asked for. I've created. And one of the things I struggle with, I'll be 50 this year and still struggling with it is

53:31Ken Coleman:the desire to achieve and the desire to influence. If I'm not careful, I become my worst critic. Yeah. It's not enough for me. Yep. And that's dangerous. And I'm just confessing that because it's, it's gotta be about people. Yeah. It's true for me too. Yeah. Because if I get caught up in the numbers and I'm not even talking about comparison, that's part of it, but I mean, just what I will do to you. Beat the crap out of myself. Yeah. I mean, it's such a false narrative. You know, I can't, I can't be validated. I can't be whole. I can't, I mean, it's a whole other podcast, but seriously, you know, how, how we can show up in an unhealthy way, but I'm grateful.

54:09Thank you for confessing that. And, um, you know, I think I started some awareness of that about the time I was 50, but it was, it wasn't until I got into therapy. This is a plug for therapist.

54:20Ken Coleman:Yeah. Until I got into meeting with a therapist on a regular basis, that started to change. And my therapist said to me, he said, you know, the thing about therapy is only the healthy people come. You know, the people that are really, really unhealthy, they don't want to come. So good for you for going. And don't feel like it's an admission if you're listening to this and thinking, well, I would never do therapy because what does that say about me? Well, it says you want to grow. It says you want to be healthy. You want to show up as a better version it yourself. So that's excellent. Well, if you're wondering what your next step is, it's to get this book, to take the assessment, find the work you're wired to do.

54:56You can get it anywhere books are sold anywhere else. People should look to find you.

55:00Ken Coleman:Ken Coleman.com. That's where they can figure everything out. Excellent. You can figure out your whole life. Literally there. Thanks buddy. You bet everything I'd hoped. Thank you. Appreciate you guys.

55:18Well, that was such a fun conversation. I mean, man, we have a lot in common with Ken. Well, Ken's one of the funniest people I've ever met. Yeah. You know, he's just very witty and just, you know, always on his toes. And I've always enjoyed being with him for that reason. And by the way, you know, he really kind of got his start, not only doing the work behind the scenes, but on stage, like as an emcee. Yeah, I remember that. And he was so fun. So leader cast, we've done some things there together as well. but why does this resonate with you? Well, I think what I appreciate about Ken, and I think this is near and dear to our heart is that he has a high view of work.

55:56And I think that, you know, we're living in a time in our culture where sometimes, you know, you think about like the quiet quitting that was happening post COVID, some of the things that we're seeing about burnout, engagement, all that, all that kind of stuff, which some of which we talked about in the conversation that almost like work is the enemy. And the goal of it is to do as little as possible. That's not where your real life happens. Your real life happens outside of work. It's almost like work is the enemy. That may sound funny coming from us, because we always talk about the double win, winning at work and succeeding at life.

56:28Really, what we're trying to do is correct for people over-indexing for work, people like you guys who are high achievers, who are probably prone to working too much and neglecting other areas of your life. But it's not because we think work is bad. In fact, we think work is inherently good. And that comes from our faith-based perspective. We believe that work is good and that it's redemptive and sanctifying and fulfilling and all of those things. And Ken does too. And so I think his assessment helps us get clearer on what our highest and best contribution is. And it really overlaps kind of with the freedom compass that we talk a lot about.

57:09Well, I was going to say that. The thing that I really resonate with, it sounds very similar to the Freedom Compass. And I think the reason that we created the Freedom Compass, and by the way, that's found in my book, Free to Focus. But the reason we like that is because it helps you identify the specific kind of work where your passion and your proficiency come together, what you love and what you're good at. And Ken does that too. That's where you're going to have the most, create the most leverage, have the most impact in the world when you're focused on that kind of work and when you're feeling, you know, like the most work-life satisfaction.

57:45But he has a slightly different model, but it basically gets at the same thing where people can be deployed to do their best work and not just any work, but the work that really aligns with who God made them to be. Yep. I love that. And I think he's very practical in how he thinks about that. And I felt like he shared some really good practical solutions and applications that will really help people to put this into practice in their own lives. Yeah. And so we would just encourage you guys to go take the assessment. This will be in the show notes. It's called the Get Clear Career Assessment. And it's definitely worth taking.

58:19And it might be something you want to do with your entire team and then discuss the results. I also think this is a cool thing to do if you have adult children. I haven't done this yet with my adult children, but I think that they would really benefit from this because one of the things happening with young people, and I know is an area of passion for Ken, is there are so many options, it's like paralyzing. It is. You know, that has not always historically been true, but it is true now. And so we need things that help us get clearer among those options so we can make a decision about, you know, what to pursue in our life.

58:49And just narrow down the options. And just narrow down. And this is a great mechanism for doing that. Well, thank you guys so much for listening this week. I hope you've enjoyed this conversation with Ken Coleman. And if you have, I would love to ask you to review the show that really helps us get this message of the double win winning at work and succeeding at life to more people. We want to get that message out. So if you will review the show and if you can give us five stars, that helps us put it on the radar of other people like you who also want to win at work and succeed at life. So thanks so much for listening and we'll look forward to another great conversation next week.

59:30Thank you.