BLACK ON BLACK GANG VIOLENCE The Attempted MURDER of Sasha Johnson & BLM Protests | Wendell Daniel

0:00You fell in love at first crunch and now the crispy chicken crunch wrap slider is back at Taco Bell. But with a twist, it's crispy all white meat chicken nuggets inside a slider sized crunch wrap. But now you can enjoy them with the kick of Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch or try the tortilla chip coated nuggets on their own. They're waiting for you. The crispy chicken crunch wrap slider, a brand new classic, is back. Only at Taco Bell. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's jar something loose. Ay, yes! I like that.

0:34The Certified Fresh Series returns. Your boss. You always like this, or is this just an act? Oh, no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody! There is a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to laugh. Mark Duggan. He was killed by the police. He was assassinated. There were race issues. Big time in this country. You had the National Front. Dr. Martin Boots. Skinny. Big mothers. If those guys had caught me, I would have been six foot under. Violence against all people is wrong.

1:14But within our community, the black community, there's too much of it. Did the leaders of the BLM movement, did they genuinely think it was about black lives mattering? Black lives do matter, but the old Bill taking the knee? What kind of business is that? Oh, tell me, tell me. History will prove Tommy Robinson was correct. Was the killing of Chris Cabba justified? She wore a body-proof vest. She clearly said she was Black Panther, what she believed in, and she was shot in the head. If Sasha had died, there would have been race riots across this country, my friend. Irrespective of the fact that the culprits were probably black.

2:01I want to say a quick thank you to our sponsors, Gold Seal. I use their products every single day, and now I finally get to work with them. I use their products for anti-inflammatory, reduced anxiety, better sleep, and mental clarity. I'm going to put a link to their website in the description, along with a 10 % discount code for you to take advantage of. Go and have a look at their website, see if there's anything in there for you, I hope you enjoy this week's episode and good health. Wendell. Big up, big up. Do you know something? Why has it taken so long for you to give me a call? Because you don't answer your phone.

2:36Listen, it is a privilege for me to be here. And when I did eventually get that call to be invited on such a great show, my heart was pounding, man. And I'm really excited about the possibilities today. And we're going to discuss some great things. You and me both, because you're, for me, you play a really important role in the country's movement and progression. But we're going to come to that. We'll come to that, yeah. You have lived a very interesting life. I don't think people are quite ready for this. But before we get into the death, the murder, the terror, the celebrity, let's just touch base on your background, because you were born in Barbados.

3:14Yes, I was born in Barbados, beautiful, sunny Barbados in 1965. And then the question becomes, why the hell am I in a cold country? But Barbados is a beautiful country. Sun, sea, warmth, culture, beautiful food, beautiful people, rum. It is so brilliant to be in Barbados. But unfortunately, this is the thing. Unfortunately, when I was born in Barbados in 1965, it's like everything else. You know, like sometimes a man and a woman, they meet each other, they have a little bit of fun. And then nine months later, someone pops out. That was what happened with me, unfortunately. Yeah, but fortunately, that's what happened with me.

4:04And my father then, yeah, he emigrated to England. And I was in Barbados with my mum. And I was there with, I had other brothers and sisters as well. But roughly around 1973, things were changing and things were getting really difficult in Barbados, especially for a single mum. So what then happened during the interim period, my father, he got married and his wife could not have any children. so they sent for me from Barbados to come to live here in England and I arrived on the 16th of November 1973 I lived in Tottenham and it was freezing cold but I come to live with a family who I had never known before and the culture had changed tremendously for me from being in a beautiful, hot country, sunny, to being in a cold, freezing cold England at eight years old.

5:18The first place I lived was in Tottenham. I lived Tilson Road, which is just around the corner from the Tottenham football ground. The Spurs. So I lived there and I lived there and I went to the same school as our great foreign secretary, David Lammy. So, you know, I grew up there. But when I arrived in Enfield in 1976, this was in the middle of race issues. Let's put it that way. There were, in Enfield, when we arrived there, we were one of the first black families to live in Freezy Water where we had moved to. And there was a National Front in them days. There was a the Ku Klux Klan, there was a British movement, and a lot of people who had emigrated were experiencing tremendous problems with lots of people in Enfield.

6:14So when I arrived in Enfield, it was difficult. That's what I wanted to ask, because I know people like to scream racism nowadays, but the real racism was back in the end of the Windrush era, you've entered into the UK, Enfield especially, I can imagine. And I know that the NF were rife and the KKK. People probably think that that's a load of old nonsense. No, it's real. Yeah. It was real. So was you on the receiving end of such hostility? I was on the – and my family were as well, but specifically with me. There is one fortunate. I was young. I arrived in Enfield at 10 years of age. Yeah. So, and I'm, you know, 11, 12, 13 in my teenage years.

7:01So when I arrived there, I was relatively young and I grew up with 99 % white people. Hence the reason, people can call me a coconut. I've got no problem, but I grew up within a white community. And yes, when I did arrive, it was like, there's a black man, there's black families. And it's like, people were not used to that. and at one stage, this was after we were there a few years, you had the National Front. You know the guys with the big, big Dr. Martin boots, red laces. Cherry red. Oh my God, skinny, big mothers. You get what I'm saying? And like, there's a... Listen, that was what it was like and to be living in an area like that.

7:52it was terrifying and to walk around the streets and i'm being quite honest to walk around those streets in them days and we're talking in the 70s now yeah it was frightening your senses was always heightened because you did not know if you was going to be attacked or not but one thing i'm make it clear. And that is, I grew up within a predominantly white community. And I love my white family and friends. And most of my family and friends are white. We've, you know, we've gone through lots of different issues. But things have changed. But then it was painful. And it was really difficult. And at one stage, this was when I was 16 years of age.

8:46And when I look back now, it was so scary. When I left school, I worked at a place called Baltimore Sports Centre. And there was a pub down there called the Bulldog. Big mother's down there. And that was where the skinheads used to hang out in the Bulldog pub in Baltimore Lane. And me got a job in the sports centre just about 200 yards from this pub so this was at 16. So we're now early 80s. Early 80s so one night I'm leaving the sports centre walking across Baltimore Park and for some reasons I turned around and I'm so glad I did turn around because I heard get the n***a and I look around and all these skinheads are after me bro and I swear to god in them days I can run like a ferret I was fast like a whippet.

9:38No one can catch me. So as soon as I turned around, bang, I was off over the fence and I was gone. Listen, man, if those guys had caught me, I would have been six foot under. But the Almighty was looking after me then and I was lucky I got away and I lived to fight another day. But one thing I will say, one thing I will say, I grew up in that era, which has made me what I am today. In them days, people were ignorant. People were uneducated. People were stupid. They didn't realize certain things. But now this country has changed. And in them days, there was a big race issue in the 70s and the 80s.

10:33There was. in 2025, I'll argue it's a completely different issue now. It's all about class. It's not about race. But I'm so glad that sort of happened because it opened up my eyes to things and it made me strong. It didn't make me weak. Yeah. And I can battle my corner. I can fight, brother. I had no problem with doing that. Was there any times where you had to fight to save your life? I would argue no, because I was a good fast runner. Have I had to fight for my life? No. And I'm being quite honest. I haven't. And one of the reasons why I haven't and I hope I never have to fight for my life is because one of the great things that's come out of my life is that at basically 16, 17, 18 years old age, I joined London Underground.

11:28and we can go into that but working for London Underground and I took early retirement from London Underground after 40 years and you know they say black don't crack so after 40 years I retired so working from the age of 18 to the age of 60 I had safety security I had and and also I had become what I call institutionalized because I had to comply with certain rules and regulations. And because of that, you know, when you're 16, 17, 18, your friends are going out raving, they're going out chasing gyal, they're going out doing all kinds of things. I never did that type of stuff because of the community in which I grew up in.

12:18I wasn't going to be going out to pubs. I wasn't a drinker, so I never frequented those types of institutions, so I never engaged. And I never had to deal with that type of issue. I never had, thank God, I've never had to fight for my, I've had dodgy situations within the press. But in regards to fear of losing my life, there was only one occasion when I had to run for my life. If not, skinheads would have ended my life. Let me touch base just for a little bit on the London Underground, because for me personally, I'm quite nervous, if I'm being honest, to go on the London Underground. So I don't use it anymore.

13:00Was you nervous at all working there? No, no, I wasn't. I love working for London Underground. And I won't have anything said bad about it because I joined the company as a guard at Oakwood in 1983. I should have joined in 1981 when I left school. I didn't. I come back two years later and I joined. And I joined as a guard. And on the guard, I was on the back of the train, opening and shutting the doors, going to Heathrow, Rayner's Lane, Cockfosters and all of those locations. So for me, I was never scared of the underground. And then I'd become a driver. And being a driver now, I'm earning big money, boss.

13:44You get what I'm saying? And this was at a very early age. And then you're having a family, you're getting a mortgage. So I was never really scared. And when you say scared, traveling, I've seen so many changes on London Underground because I joined in the 1983 and I left 40 years later. I've seen the Kings Cross fire. I've seen 7-7. I've been through all new trains. I've been through the days when you joined the job, you would have to clean the white lines on platforms. Now you've got cleaners. you know in the days when you didn't have fire alarm systems now you've got so much safety and security you know there was a crash many years ago at Moorgate I think it was but now you've got so many safety systems on the underground do you hear about crashes on the underground no you don't as a driver I had three people jump under my train to commit suicide that you know I had that but in regards to your question specifically I think London Underground and I'm being quite honest is the safest way to travel around London you've got great staff and if you look how efficient they are they've all got their iPads they're approachable they can communicate London Underground is safe man it is safe and I don't want anyone to say that they feel unsafe in travelling on the underground because women, I understand some women feel unsafe, but now we've got CCTV everywhere.

15:26London Underground has evolved. It has developed. I can say things about the mayor later on. You get what I'm saying? Sir Sadiq. I couldn't say that when I was employed. I can say it now. But it's brilliant. Please do never be scared to travel on London Underground. As soon as you enter the system, You've got staff there. Not all locations. Let's agree on that. Central London, you've got staff there. And you get on those trains. You get announcements. It's telling you we stopped in a tunnel. How long are you going to be stopped for? It's brilliant, man. What concerns me is it's not an unnatural fear.

16:07It's because I hear what goes on through the grapevine that doesn't get reported in the press. and I just think it's a perfect place for a terror attack. So I'm always mindful of that. And I shouldn't live in fear, but I just think if there's an alternative way to travel, I will. But maybe now you give me the reassurance it's the safest way to travel, I'll give it a go. It's as safe as going on an aeroplane. And I'm being quite honest. I would not have been there for 40 years if the place was as bad as what they see. At one stage, I worked on the Northern Line and the Northern Line is to call it the misery line because it was always breaking down and all kind of stuff.

16:48The misery line. But now, look at the Northern Line. Beautiful trains, beautiful stations. It is, listen, it is amazing, but you did mention about the terrorist attack. Let's talk about the terrorist attack, yeah, when that happened 7-7. Yeah, when that happened, it was frightening and I'm being quite honest. It was frightening. I was on duty on that day when it happened. Yeah. And to this day, it scares me the thought that at those locations, Edgeware Road, Kings Cross, Russell Square, and down at Tavistock Square, some dickheads exploded bombs with the intention of disrupting London and killing so many people.

17:37What did you witness? I didn't witness the actual attack in itself, But then I was a photographer. So I had the opportunity. Yeah. As unofficially this was, I took photographs of things, flowers, the cards, the messages. I saw how Londoners galvanised and come together. I saw how the police worked to get, and also London Underground Management and everyone else, worked together to reassure the public, to get the public back on the system. And it was the first time I saw reassuring police with police officers walking around the system with guns. I had never seen that before. it was frightening and everyone with a backpack you're shooting you're scared hold on what's in that backpack and and that was the issue but eventually you forgot about that and security alerts will then become right so if anyone left the bag or you saw a bag you automatically assumed hold on that could be an incendiary device so your your senses were heightened heightened heightened and we on the underground, I'm really proud as we do safety and security checks to make sure things like, you know, if someone has left the bag, we'll deal with it.

19:05But we cannot have these Muslim terrorists, yeah, disrupting London. We cannot have any terrorists disrupting London. And we've done an excellent job in recovering and moving forward. And I'm proud to be part of that. but to photograph it oh my god and so how did you get into the whole photography and becoming paparazzi mainly since i left school i had that love for photography and then eventually the first i think it was in about 1984 1985 i bought my first camera a minolta 7000 i'll never forget and I started taking photographs. From that, I got the love for being able to create an image in photography.

19:56But in them days, nowadays you've got SD cards and you can click off. You know, one of my, I've got various cameras. One of the cameras I've got is a Canon R3. I can hit off 30 shots in one second. Bang! But in the days when I started out as a photographer, we had the film you had to put it in the camera and you only had like 24 or 36 shots and then I will have to go into a dark room and develop and print my own photography that got me into it and that got me to love photographs and and there's nothing better than going out there to take a photograph and to see the final product but in 2025 you know I've got mirrorless cameras click click and automatically see the picture at the back on the lcd screen in them days you didn't know what you've got until you developed it and that was so exciting hold on there click click click i don't know what i've got till i've gone in my dark room develop and print and see it develop in front of me but that got me into it and then eventually i ended going to southgate college to learn photography and to learn how to develop and print a photograph because and how a camera works because people now nowadays in 2025 they don't know how a camera work all they know is press that button they don't know about lighting about aperture about speeds and all these kind of technical things where you learn how to manipulate a camera but i learned that and once i started getting good photographs i then wanted to become a paparazzi and i and in them days it's the days of princess dina now man and it was great to chase and to go at locations where the royalty were or princess dina was to photograph her because in them days yeah i would you can look in the newspapers and it told you where royalty was going to be.

22:05Right. And so you can plan out your day. Oh, you know, I'm going to go to this location, that location, because the Queen is going to be there, Princess Diana is going to be there. And that's how I got, you know, that's how I got into the love of doing photographs. So were you one of the lucky ones that can say that you managed to take a photograph of Princess Diana? Yeah. And I will say Princess Diana used to use doubles. I swear to God, she used to use doubles because I would take a picture of Princess Diana and I thought, this nose is slightly different. And the person looked better. I swear she used doubles, but yes, I did have the chance to photograph Princess Diana.

22:48And when that horrible day in 1997, when Princess Diana was killed, the word paparazzi become a bad word. Yeah. And that turned me off to chasing around and going, but basically the role of the paparazzi. I didn't want to be associated with all of that stuff. It was dangerous because paparazzi were blamed for what happened. And that word, didn't want to be associated with it, bro. So you've gone from photographing the royal family, the great princess Diana, may she rest in peace, then to the crazed funeral. And then you're mingling with the likes of Dave Courtney and England's greatest, most notorious gangsters.

23:34So how did that take place and what was that like? Oh, my God. That was amazing because I had put down my camera after the issues with Princess Diana. But then when you've got a love and a passion for something, you can't put something down very long. You get what I'm saying? so I picked my camera up and then you were hearing in the backgrounds that someone was sick Is this Bridge or Ron? I think the first person who passed I think it was Ron Oh so you covered both funerals I covered both I covered both and when people speak about the craze there was a mystique about who they were and what they stood for Secretly I liked that and I admired them and because I was in I was a photographer and I was in the process of getting together a portfolio because I had I had stopped I wasn't doing anything so I had to demonstrate I still got the skills to be able to get up my press pass so I then started I thought I'm gonna go and cover this funeral we're hearing how big it's gonna be when I got there oh my god I to this day I'm in the funeral industry i do things every day in the funeral industry i would argue princess dynas funeral that was gigantic the queen and members of that was but for a normal person i had never seen anything like it in my life because when you went outside that church at bethnal green the whole road was rammed with people i had never seen so many limousines and it must have know that 30 40 limousines and then you see dave courtney you know i didn't know who he was then but but when you see this dude and that jacket he was wearing and how majestic he looked and the team who was around him and to be there to capture history to capture that on photographs it was amazing but one of the most amazing parts of being there to photograph the funeral here was was the journey down to Chingford Cemetery and if you recall I sent you a video last week from Chingford Cemetery and then the whole cemetery was blocked off the only way we can get into that cemetery to photograph what was going on at the grave was to jump over them.

26:12Big, big, big, big fence. So all the photographers, and in them days we were agile, we was a lot younger, man. Didn't have bad knees, you get what I'm saying? So we jumped over, mate. The police could not stop us. And we got there. So when the remaining craze, they were there with the security people and the people from the prison service, all handcuffed and whatnot. and to be there to photograph it and to be over, and I'm being honest, to be over the grave with my camera, click, click, click, click, click. Fucking hell, man. It was just... Surreal. It was surreal to witness history in the making, but it's not just about witnessing history.

27:01It's about recording history because that's what you're doing. You're capturing... A split second in time. And you're trying to capture it the best way you can. And that, for me, is so important. But when you are capturing history with a photographic camera, just like nowadays, as a live streamer, you see me, I'm there commenting on a live stream. So you're giving your opinion. When you're taking a photograph, you're not giving an opinion. you're completely impartial objective you can say you are given an opinion by how you take the photograph how you compose the images who's in it and all kind of things but in general you're not commenting but you are commenting by capturing a beautiful picture that is just a split second in time that recalled something which like you say was so surreal and to be there at the craze funeral Oh, my God.

28:04Well, here's a question. And I'd imagine that some of the audience watching and listening will be asking themselves. Because some people love the craze. Some people hate the craze. And you said that you admired them. So the question is, what did you admire about the craze? No, that's a great question. And what I admired was the reputation they were able to build. And that reputation was around looking after the ladies, looking after the women, and taking care of people in the community because I don't see that enough now. If you was a bad man, come and mess with us. We'll deal with you. I like that.

28:44But you look after your family, you look after your community, you take care of your ladies. You know, you've said it yourself. You're certain people. You must always take care of. And the craze did that. And, you know, and this was back in the 50s and 60s. A lot of the stuff I've seen, was it true? Who knows? What happened at certain pubs? Was it true? Who knows? But I just loved that mystique around them. The aura. Yeah. And for me, it was amazing to witness it. And even now, every now and then, like I've said to you, I go and pay homage at the Kray grave. And I do. I'll go and visit there, say a few words, and there's a family grave.

29:32I'm not saying exactly where. That's something completely private. But to actually go and pay homage to characters like that, I think it's amazing. Should they have been in prison for as long as they were? No. But that's the state messing with you. We can get into that. They should have been released years ago. but because of that mystique around them, in my opinion, that's why they were never released and they all died in prison. And that was so sad. Yeah, as a very good, honest dancer, and I'll be very interested to read the comments in this section of the interview, you had an awakening one day to social justice.

30:14What was that? Mark Duggan. Mark Duggan was... He was killed by the police. I'll rephrase that he was assassinated. I'm going to say Mark Duggan was assassinated by the police. And who was Mark Duggan? Mark Duggan was a... I don't know Mark Duggan personally, I'm declaring that. I don't know Mark Duggan's family. I can only go by what I've read, research, and I know people who were involved, yeah. But Mark Duggan was a gentleman who lived in Tottenham. I believe he was around the Broadwater Farm estate. he had family in that area and the broad water farm estate was synonymous with troubles back in 1985 when pc blakelock sadly lost his life so it was synonymous and mark was well known yeah he had built he had built a reputation for himself and what happened august the 4th 2010 i think it was where the police thought that mark was in possession or in control of a weapon a gun i think that's not in dispute but what is in dispute was when mark was stopped what was the sequence of events that led to him being assassinated by the police it was argued that he opened up the door of the taxi he was traveling in just as the stop was taking place and he threw a gun out over a fence it was argued also that when mark when when the vehicle stopped mark got out he had his hands in his he had his hands in his pockets yeah and and there was there There was movement and the police may have believed that he had a gun in his hands and you've got a police officer with a firearm and in no time, bang, and he was shot and killed.

32:21There has been a lot of denials in regards to what actually happened, what led to the police officers shooting, sorry, police officer shooting Mark Duggan. But what has, what transpired afterwards was that the family were not kept informed in regards to what happened. Yeah, the community was angry. And I see similarities with what happened in Tottenham with what happened in Southport. And the community was angry. What then happened was community leaders and the community and family went to Tottenham police station for answers. they didn't get answers that they were looking for they were like go away like you're nothing yeah and the police are here to protect and serve and and i'm gonna declare i've got nothing against the police bro and i'm gonna argue later on that we got some great police officers and and i think the police in general do a great job but there are occasions where some elements of the police gotta ask questions bro you get what I'm saying and the family didn't get the answers they were looking for eventually it erupted in Tottenham people started burning rioting and we know and it spread throughout the length and breadth of this country and And it was shocking for me to see it because, you know, when I said I first come to England in 1973 and I lived Tottenham, that's where I lived.

34:04That was my manor. And my manor was getting burned to the ground. It was, I could not believe what I was seeing. I don't agree with what happened. Sorry, I do not agree. I can understand people were angry. But, you know, when I get angry, you know, we can talk. we're not going to get physically violent i can pick up my camera i can make things i can educate people i'm not going to be going doing criminality and that was wanton criminality and it was shame to see it unfold in front of my very eyes and when i saw it yet again i'm a cameraman i'm there to film this stuff but in them days yet again i've got photographs so so i had the opportunity not on the day it happened the day after it happened the aftermath yeah the aftermath but i knew the area lansdowne road you had the carpet shop at the corner which burnt just down by tottenham football ground i know these places i used to frequent these places to see it oh my word which community was burning down the buildings?

35:18No, that's a genuine question, yeah. Some people would never have heard of Mark Duggan, you see. In general, it was mainly, from my understanding, people from my own community, but it was people from all communities, but mainly it was, I'm not going to say Mark Duggan, I'm going to say in the black community, yeah, and it was sad to see it because this is the heart of London. Tottenham has a history, because of what happened previously in 1984, 85, it was 1985 when it happened, you know, when the Tottenham rights after PC Blakelock was killed. And it should never have happened. But the police, and I say it to the day I end up in my own grave, when people have lost loved ones you have a duty to protect and serve and you must communicate with the family from down i think now you've got liaison officers you've got all kind of different people yeah but they were not communicating with people and exactly the same southpaw but but but we'll deal with that separate and and listen it was a tender box waiting to explode but one thing that really shocked me and it didn't when i saw that place burning when i saw people going in to shops nicking tvs and it's like what's going on bro but i saw the police standing by with their cameras not doing nothing but i understand what they were doing they were gathering evidence they had all the technologies facial recognition and all that they don't need to arrest you there they went afterwards and they rounded all the people up and they got banged up.

37:01So while we're on the subjects of the police, what's your personal opinion of them? There will be occasions during this podcast, you're going to hear me cuss the police. I've got no problem in cussing the police. I will cuss Wayne Cousins in what Wayne Cousins has done in regards to Sarah Everard. I will cuss them. You get what I'm saying? Chris Cabba. Yeah. you know i i went to the trial at the old bailey and i listened to the evidence and i heard what happens yeah there's certain things i cannot say because there's all kind of rules which prevent you from disclosing what didn't go before the jury right and you know there's certain things i would say but in general i believe we have and i'm being honest people are going to cuss me for this in general we have a good police service in this country i work in partnership with the police on occasions when i'm doing protests and i have a very great relationship with the metropolitan police specifically yeah for example if you do a protest you see officers who wear the tabards yeah the blue tabards they're they're called the liaison officers and the liaison officers I get on with all of them because over a period of time you build up a relationship and I get on with them I have me if you look at my records yeah in the last 40 years I have never been stopped I don't drive anyway I've never been stopped or arrested by the police and I you know and I'm being honest yeah so i myself have no problems with the metropolitan police we and when i say we i'm saying we as a community i'll define that in two ways black and all the community in general we as the black community we need to work in partnership with the metropolitan police i want to see more black men and women joining the metropolitan police force in their ranks and I want to see them becoming part of the community because we can't all stand on the outside cussing, cussing, cussing the Met.

39:19What are we doing? What steps are we taking actively? In your opinion, was the killing of Chris Cabba justified? No, that's my opinion. But what is important, a jury listened to the evidence that they were allowed to listen to and they made a decision. What is important is that I believe in the criminal justice system in this country. A person is innocent until proven guilty. Officer NX121 went through the criminal justice process and he was cleared. That is it. But I was there. And when I was there, I heard that I wasn't there every day. but it is important for people in general to go to courts to listen and when you listen you can hear what is permitted to go before the jury and what is not when you hear what can on cannot you ask questions and and on the day as as you know with the chris cupboard case i'm just going by my memory.

40:33Yeah, it was alleged that he was involved with an incident the night before. Yeah. What then happened was that he was driving a vehicle, which was observed by the police and the police were following it. I think it was somewhere in Croydon, but I'm not 100 % correct, but he drove down a road. There was a police car already in the road blocking his exit there was one behind him yeah and the police what we were told yeah they did not know who was driving the vehicle they didn't know if there was weapons etc etc in in in the vehicle so they stopped chris chris then is blocked in he then made a decision that's his decision to drive the vehicle and that's a person who's attempting to escape I can understand why, if Chris God rest his soul, I'm not saying nothing bad about my late brother when I say brother, another human being if he had even if he had put his hands up who knows what would have happened or if he had made it clear to the police that that didn't happen because he drove a vehicle this is where it then becomes argued in law this thing's called actus and mens reis and for those who don't know the mens is the element in your head at the time you did something yeah and and the actus is the act so what was argued was that then and i'm this is my understanding What was argued was that when that vehicle that Chris was driving went towards the police, they were in fear that that vehicle would have struck or hurt or killed the police officers that were there.

42:37So in your mind, this is the mental bit, you're now in fear. Once you're in fear that, you know, life is at risk, you may, you know, you may be justified in pulling the trigger to stop that person or to stop that threat. That is my recollection of exactly what occurred. So, you know, the officer believed that vehicle, and let's be honest, yeah, a big vehicle being driven at the police is an issue. Is it justified to shoot someone or to shoot the tyres out? It's not for me to say, you know, you are employed to do a job to protect and serve. you've got a lethal weapon in your hands you you have to make a split decision and we can argue after the fact was it right was it wrong but officer nx121 made a decision that decision resulted in the officer being charged and then acquitted i wasn't there i don't know what go I've heard and I've heard some of the evidence and I, you know, my opinion is that it wasn't justified.