Can We Trust The Police? | Ex-Officer Exposes Broken Force: Jay Darkmoore

25:26A police farce, maybe. But it's as if the people at the top of the chain are actually setting frontline officers up to fail. They want them to be hated by the public because you've seen genuine crimes get swept aside and the public see that. Viewing galleries are there for all to see. And these these arrests and jail terms and hefty sentences for being in the wrong group chat or putting something out on Facebook or X that the government don't approve of. And they're getting sent to jail. It's there for the country to see, for the world to see. And now the world is actually looking at the UK. The police force in the UK are under the microscope world over.

26:08So I don't envy anybody in that force, but I still see some of the people, because I've been going to these protests up and down the country just to see the vibe. I consider myself a journalist now. I ask as many questions as I can to find out as much information as I can about someone's life, experience, job, perspective. You look at the world one way, you're just going to get one answer. And I don't want to be that person. I want to be mouldable, movable. I want my opinions to change based on new evidence. So when I've been to these protests and I've seen the anti-racists protesting against people that aren't racist, well, it's all white middle-aged men.

26:51Apparently now, yeah. And I do not want to quote Gary Neville for the record. Fucking what an imbecile that man is. But you've got these people sort of trying to amplify, well, they are amplifying racism without there being the racism they're accusing people of being. So I've been there to get a sense of the left-hand side, the right-hand side, who really stands for something, who's got the actual purpose, who wants change, who's there because they've got nothing else better to do. But also I want to look how the police are reacting. And so I'm seeing police officers ferry in these counter-protesters who I believe are just there to agitate and cause trouble unnecessarily because the whole country is concerned about where we're going.

27:30So I've seen the police ferry them in, mollycoddle them, be very kind to them and protective when they don't need to be. And then I had an incident recently where I put my hand out to shake an officer's hand at a protest to thank him for keeping the law and order because I appreciate you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't at the moment. And he refused to shake my hand. I've said this a couple of times before, but I'll say it again because I'm not anti-police. I actually feel sorry. I think police officers at the moment are victims of the police institution. but still if I put my hand out to shake someone's hand and I feel like we're supposed to be on the same team and he's got his arms crossed saying we don't need to shake hands it really really upset me what would you have done in that situation you're at a protest and you've got people protesting against migrant hotels you've got counter protesters you've got the police in the middle trying to balance it out and then someone that's been perfectly friendly comes up and says you know thanks for what you're doing would you have shook their hand or would you have said We don't need to shake hands.

28:31It's a hard one because I have shaken people's hands before, you know, when someone goes, thank you for your work. Yeah, okay, that's fine. In a situation like that, though, because it can be considered quite a politically charged movement, you know, you've got the right side, you've got the left side, the police aren't allowed to show political favour. Even though that's very clear that that happens, is it from an organisational level? Organisationally, it's okay, well, it almost looks like we will support this movement but go against this movement or be more firm against this movement. In that situation, I don't think I would have shaken your hand.

29:06Not because I don't like you or I was disrespectful towards yourself. It's a case of my supervisor looking over my shoulder. And if I go to shake somebody's hand at a political event, that can be seen as me showing political favour to somebody else. So I can understand both perspectives. I can understand your perspective of going, I just wanted to thank you for a good job. And the upset that that caused and the sense of bias as to why they didn't shake the hand. But I can also understand the officer's perspective where it's going, if I shake your hand, as much as I want to, if I shake your hand, I can then get hauled over the coals for showing political favour one way or another.

29:50Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense. So you as a human being, as an individual, you wouldn't have shook my hand. So I'll ask you the question to play devil's advocate. Would you have shaken any counter protesters hands if they had come up and said, thanks for doing a good job? No, because then you're a hypocrite, aren't you? You can't say, oh, let's, you know, you are clearly representing this side of the argument. I will shake your hand and all the rest of it. But then this side of the argument, I'm not going to shake your hand and say I'm politically unbiased. You would have to have that stability of opinion for both sides.

30:24You would have to remain independent, regardless of who's in front of you. So, no, if I made a decision not to shake your hand, that means I can't or won't shake anyone else's hand because I don't want to show, like I said, political favour to somebody else. Now, being completely impartial, I respect that. It's like, OK, I understand your predicament. But what triggered me was the fact that for the last two years, well, in fact, for a lot longer than that, and you can tell me if you've seen this or not as well, I've seen a two-tier policing system on steroids. So where I've seen the police cozy up to people on the left, shall we say, or it's good versus bad at the moment.

31:02It's not right versus left. It's all completely fucked. But where I've seen the police cozy up to counter protesters, agitators, real far left leaning lunatics, unnecessary liberals. I sort of think, well, OK, if let's see which way you swing. Thanks. OK, so you're not going to shake my hand, but we've just we've seen on the news for God knows how many years that you're arresting you're arresting people. that are protesting against genuine causes with genuine concern, but you're going in with kid gloves on the counter protesters who turn up wearing masks. So that was my frustration, was the fact that I've seen two-tier policing for so many years now.

31:40I mean, the last two years, it's just been, I think it's undeniable. What would you say? You can't deny two-tier policing doesn't exist. Now, I want to caveat that. When it comes to the officer on the ground, it isn't a case of you're getting a radio message saying, I mean say that I'll tell you a story now so when researching my next book called The System's Fucked I've spoken to loads of police officers and I've always asked a question to them does two-tier policing exist on like the frontline level 99 % have said no it's we're not being directed to arrest someone based off skin color or ethnicity or you know cultural sensitivities But there was one who said they were at a petrol station and there was a white Eastern European male.

32:27And then I believe it was a Muslim Asian male as well. What happened was them two got into an argument. It was the Muslim gentleman who started the argument. And the officer on the scene relayed this to their sergeant asking for advice, like both kicking off. I believe this guy started it what's your advice? and they said lock up the white European because that will cause less cultural tensions that's the only example I've heard of that happening on the front line my own experience I haven't arrested someone or not arrested someone due to political ideology or cultural sensitivities if you've done something wrong you're coming in if I can justify it irrespective of where you may sit on a organisation level we can't deny that to tear policing doesn't exist because like you've said kid gloves for one more robust for the other dancing at pride not happy to shake somebody's hand at a um a you know unite the kingdom rally but i also believe that i think it was north hamptons north hamptonshire police have been recently taken to court about their activity at pride because they were taking part in Pride, but then there was a counter-protest and they weren't taking part in that one, so it clearly shows a political divide there.

33:49And I believe they were then taken to court to say, well, you can't do that. The police have to be apolitical. The courts, on the other hand, 100 % politically captured, 100%. We just have to look at the Southport rights. We just have to look at when it comes to hate crimes, when it comes to incitement to violence, incitement to cause damage. somebody posting a tweet gets immediate custodial sentence which by the way to remand somebody with no pnc record is fucking impossible i've had people i've been on the phone to a cps lawyer before at two in the morning saying like this guy's going to go out and he's going to kill his missus or this person's joey drug dealer and he's he's just going to go out he's going to flee the country whatever no well we don't want to remand him we think he'll be all right on tag or we think we You know, bail, bail work.

34:39So when I heard that a certain individual posted something on X and then was reminded in custody, I'm like, that just does not happen. Why on earth has that happened? And then when we look at the sentence then, because, of course, like we know, like I mentioned before, man who strangles his partner, suspended sentence, somebody posts something online, immediate custodial sentence, immediate. And the guilty plea as well. the courts are massively politically captured. I believe that in the higher rungs of the police, depending on the ideology of that superintendent, that assistant chief constable, that then feeds downwards, which then reflects on how the attention is when it comes to officers on the ground.

35:25So on a ground level, I don't believe two-tier police exists. Organizationally, I think it's pretty evident that it does. And that's not okay because you should police without fear or favour. The people at the very top should be making decisions on where they put the resources based on demand and based on, okay, well, what do the public we serve, what do they want? But that's clearly not happening. Because like you mentioned earlier, burglaries are going undetected. Car thefts. I was speaking to an officer the other day and he said, we don't even go to car thefts anymore. We just don't go. They get a crime number for their insurance and then that's it.

36:03I mean, cops can't be proactive now. Cops can't go and, you know, wait outside a house or think there's some drug dealing going on. Cops can't pull over cars if they think a car looks a bit dodgy, if there's a lot of burglars in an area. They just don't have the time. They don't have the time. They don't have the resources available to do it because they're so bogged down with the emergency calls which need the retention then and there that it's impossible for officers to go out and do proactive policing. Monday on NBC. U.S. Marshall! All new Line of Fire. The thrilling new crime drama. The world sees us as heroes, but they don't know what the job really costs.

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37:26Now streaming on Disney+. Read PG-13. What would happen to an officer? Well, what happens to officers that just refuse to take orders? So if I was a police officer now, chances are I would be graded green, amber or red. This is what's now happening. There's a grading system now. There's a grading system. So if you're an officer that is on green, you've hit your arrest quota for the month. You've got enough stop searches, traffic stops, all the rest of it. You've built your score system up. You've built your score system up. Completely unethical. completely unethical because oh if if i didn't start dipping below that i'll be on amber and if i go into red i go on what's called an action plan a development plan you're on a development plan for long enough you're getting sacked so unless you're hitting these quotas and hitting these stats you're likely going to lose your job so officers that are attending incidents and going we can deal with this another way we don't have to lock lock them up they're going yeah but we need our stats, don't we?

38:31And plus, when you've dealt with it, you never see that incident again. You don't have to do the investigation afterwards. So there's no accountability there for the officers anyway in a lot of the forces because they have investigation units that then take it all up and deal with it. Which then creates a worse service for the public because the cops have less time to deal with it. So if you're an officer who pushes back, you're probably going to get your ear chewed off or you might be put on an action plan or you might even remove units completely. they do something you don't like and maybe try and force you out that way because you're not you're not towing the line so the officers that have a moral compass normally burn out and they leave the officers who are happy to follow the orders and do as they're told and kind of swallow that reason why they started in the first place they're the officers that generally stay there longer but that doesn't mean they like what they're doing it just means that they can separate from I don't want to do this, but I've got him.

39:27Because there's only so many times, like, I've had officers tell me that when they're at an incident and it's happening right there in front of them, or even before they get to the incident, they're having their supervision contacting them saying, this is what you will do when you get there. They have said this on the call, you will arrest when you get to this incident. They've not got there yet. And how many times do we hear people saying, you know, oh, I said this to get you here quicker. oh actually it's not happened how I said it over the phone I was mistaken or I was upset and I thought they said this thing or I thought they had this but they didn't based off that information on the call cops are then being directed to arrest so why do you need all the decision making abilities why do you need all the training in safeguarding why do you need all these other things which make someone good at decision making and problem solving when you attend an incident and all the other information you get if that decision has already been made before you even get there it's morally inept and it's completely wrong.

40:29And the only people who benefit, it's not the public, it's not the officers that I have to put the handcuffs on people and do that. It's the supervisor at the top who then can present it to their next promotion board and say, domestic arrests or arrests have gone up 30 % under my watch. Nice one. I then get promoted and move on to another unit. That's no longer my problem anymore. I've come in, completely fucked it up, and now I'm off somewhere else. and the people that suffer are members of the public like me and you when we do need the help of the police and the officers who join for the right reasons who can no longer do their job.

41:03Like I said, that's why I left. Got to the point where I just could not see what was going on anymore. And I thought, I need to go. I've tried my absolute best. I can no longer help people. I was going to ask you, I was going to ask you, did you join the police force to fight crime or feel important? You know, yeah, okay. it's nice to have an important role in society and to be that protector of people and to look after people but I didn't join to drive fast cars I didn't really join to arrest people locking people up even though I had a very high arrest statistic on my on my unit I never really got any joy from locking people up and that's why I got so invested in dealing with cases of domestic violence because I know family members have been through it I've been through it and And I know on a micro level, you can dramatically change somebody's life.

41:52If you manage to get that awful perpetrator away from that person, you can irrevocably change someone's life if you do a good job. So that was why I joined. I joined to look after people, take care of people, and make the world a safer place for my own family. There are some people who think, oh, great, I get to wear a uniform. I get to drive the fast cars. I get to, you know, be important. and I get to have this, I don't know, authority for other people. Those people join for the wrong reasons. You join the police because you want to look after people and you want to help people. And that is why I joined.

42:26When you said you were leaving, did they try and fight for you? Because I'll tell you for a while, because if I met you in a pub, even today, I would think you was old Bill. Oh, really? 100%. Yeah, you stink at police. That's not a bad thing, but surely they would fight for someone of your calibre. That's what I mean. You can tell that you've got that police officer thing about you. I don't know if I should be thankful of that or not. No, they didn't, unfortunately. No, they didn't because I pushed back a lot. So I used to push back on cases where I had to go and interview someone. He'd be like, why has this person even been arrested?

43:07Or I'd be looking at a case and be like, I'm not bailing this person. This person should never have been here in the first place. so I used to push back a lot so it was maybe a bit of a problem because I wasn't just a yes man I wasn't just doing what I was told so I did have my superintendent call me in the corridor I think on my last day and basically say like oh why are you leaving and all the rest well I was honest and I said well it's just not the job for me anymore and I was like okay what are you doing next oh well I'm gonna look at doing this okay alright see ya I was like I've done a lot of really good work for you in particular because all the detections and everything else I get make you look better and what I wanted to do was I wanted to specialise I wanted to go on what was called the stalking unit so I was on the investigation unit near the end of when I left and then I wanted to go on the stalking unit however they wouldn't let me move because he said oh we don't have enough staff when in reality I just think I was too valuable because I was more highly trained than a lot of the officers on my unit but they were saying but you can go to this other unit which you don't want to go on but if you want to move and go on that but that'll be in like 12 months so for the time being you got so i felt like they were just carrot and stick but without the carrot just stringing me along and eventually it was like i've just i've had enough going home heading my hands just thinking what am i doing i'm i'm locking people up which well i didn't personally i'm dealing with people who should not be arrested Let me give you an example of what's the shit show, what it's currently in.

44:41So near the end of my time on frontline policing, it did about eight years frontline and about 18 months on investigations. So near the end of my eight years on frontline, when this stats focus was really starting to take hold, I went to an incident and the call was, I've just seen my neighbor push their partner. Okay, so we go there. It's about two in the morning. We get there. we knock on the door everything seems fine they can't understand why we're there now of course sometimes people can present they know the police come in act normal you get an instinct for that is this just an argument or is there something more sinister going on here and for all pretense and purposes me and my colleague who were very experienced went to this incident we thought everything's fine turns out the male was heavily autistic and was having was really struggling to kind of regulate himself so what his missus has done and he's gone, back door, go outside.

45:36So yes, she has technically pushed him. It's technically an assault. Are we going to arrest somebody? Never been in trouble with the police before for basically trying to look after the partner. So we say, right, okay, well, what we're going to do is one of you needs to go somewhere else for the night, safeguarding. All right, cool. There's also three young children asleep upstairs. We then relay this information to my supervisor. My supervisor says, nope, you have to arrest. So I'm like, well, I'm not doing that. that's not appropriate i turn around with colleagues sticking this lady in handcuffs all hell breaks loose it's like someone threw a grenade in that room this lad who was already struggling with his mental health starts going off on one the woman is there crying her eyes out we've got three young children who've now come downstairs and are going why are you arresting my mum what you're doing it's absolute carnage what happens is we manage to calm everything down we take the lady to custody she goes no comment on interview she's released within half an hour not ideal she should never have been locked up anyway because that means that lady's now got a PNC record she goes for a job she'll see she's been arrested before the next day I then get the curly finger from my sergeant we're going to what's called the room of doom the room where you're going to get a bollocking yeah exactly so I get fucking pulled in by my sergeant and she goes why did you push back at that instant last night I said because of my powers I didn't think it was necessary to arrest we could have dealt with that a different way she and they also said and then she said so you're telling me that a vulnerable male was assaulted and you didn't want to take positive action and it's funny how someone can twist something who wasn't there based on little information very passive aggressive yeah yeah not so bad and then they said well there's also three young children upstairs she said well they should have been what's called ppo'd so police protection order emergency social care so rather than that sergeant say to me you're there I trust what you're saying.

47:28You can separate. You know all the training and safeguarding. You do that. She would rather me have arrested the mum, put her on bail for three months so she can't go home, leave a heavily autistic male in the house, mental health in the toilet, and put the three children into emergency social care rather than push back on what she was being told by her supervisors when they put down the order to arrest. And that is what's happening all the time, is the decisions making is being taken away from frontline cops who are there dealing with it. And it's the frontline cops who then get all the shit.

48:05Yeah, you've got to show them a little bit of mercy, when you're seeing what's going on out there. And I want to go back to why I said that I would know you as old Bill just by talking to you in the pub, because I don't get in trouble with the police now. I'm now seeing police prancing around at Pride wearing heels and makeup. Mind-blowing. You're paid to protect. You can't protect people when you're dancing. and you've got to be vigilant at all times, particularly now how volatile it is out there. But when I used to get in trouble with the police many, many years ago, so decades ago, I'd be getting arrested by men like you, which is how I would scan you and think police officer, because you remind me of the police officers that I used to deal with that used to interview me after I'd had a punch-up outside a nightclub or something.

48:45And now I just see police officers completely, well, they're not like they used to be, which is a problem. And the ones that were effective back in the day, that can, A, think for themselves and make the right decision, they're leaving, you being one of them. So, yeah, that wasn't, I suppose it's however you take it, but it weren't meant to be an insult. I take it as a compliment. It just reminded me of the good old days when I used to get nicked. So what about abuse of power? Did you witness much of that? And if so, where is the power most abused? As in supervisors or like? Could be anybody. Let's say frontline officer that's got his badge and thinks it's a licence to do what he likes.

49:26I mean, we've seen some, what's that police officer's name that's been sent to jail recently? I mean, if that weren't an abuse of power, he got the girl in his car. Oh, was it Wayne Cousins? Wayne Cousins, yeah, piece of shit. Hang him. Yes. I've seen some officers maybe a bit more heavy-handed than was necessary in quite a volatile situation. Abuse of power in the sense of maybe, I don't know, being over the top uh aggressive or no i don't i don't think i did generally the officers i worked with on the whole were quite good they were they joined for the right reasons they did the right thing people who did go too far would have been reported and got reprimanded and they either got sacked um there was an officer who i was aware of who pulled someone over for drink driving he then began a relationship with this person.

50:20He was actually sent to prison for that because he got reported. In my experience, whenever somebody has gone over the line, they have been reported. Abuse of power, if it happens, it gets dealt with because the professional standards are so overzealous now that people who do serious wrong do get caught and they do get dealt with to the point where they're so over the top, people who, like you saw with Longcastle, he called a lad with a knife a little bitch and he got fired for it. So it's kind of like they've gone completely the other way now where cops are being investigated because they use robust language.

51:07That was outrageous. Yeah, it's ridiculous. And didn't his colleague grass him up? It was his colleague, yeah. Fuck's sake. And I'm all for the integrity. more for the integrity line. And if you see someone doing something which is fucking out of order, you know, that person is a held account. But it's got to be out of order. It's got to be out of order. Yeah, calling someone a bitch that's carrying a knife doesn't quite fit the bill. That could have been dealt with by the sergeant pulling him in and going, mate, fucking calm down next time, you know, and it'd be dealt with like that. Talk to me about Poo Watch.

51:33What is that? Poo Watch. So I never knew this when you joined the police, but if somebody has swallowed drugs, they go on what's called constant observations which means that there is an officer for 24 hours a day sat there with them in custody if they've swallowed drugs they have to go on what's called the glass toilet the glass toilet means that you have to take this person when they need to have a bowel movement they it's like a fucking they climb up there they sit on the top they then have to have a crap and they have to have two clear bowel movements and it's to see if there is any drugs in their system Most of the time, when someone says they swallow drugs, they're probably not.

52:16So you basically just got to watch someone shit a couple of times and they can only be taken off poo watch once they've done two clear bowel movements. So we are paying for officers to sit there and wait for somebody to have a poo. That happens. I'm glad I know where my taxes are going. And the best bit is, so when it comes down, It's like a jet wash. When the stool comes down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you imagine, you know, like... We had one lad once. He had an all-day breakfast and he hid a piece of sausage. So when he climbed up, he basically threw this bit of sausage down to look like it had a crap.

52:57So we have to wash it and see if there's anything inside it. It's the shit job. Basically, if you're pissed off your supervisor, you're on poo watch. I think the longest we had someone in it for was, I think, about 40 days. I think that's the record in my old force. 40 days watching someone shit. Yeah, because he just wouldn't go. We said, like, can we not, like, is there a thing where you can lax it? And he said, no, against human rights, obviously we can't do anything like that. So you have to sit and wait for someone to do two clear barments. It's funny, this human rights thing. What about the human rights of the man that's being forced to watch someone take a shit for 40 days?

53:32Well, unfortunately, that's your job. You have to deal with that. Yeah. But it's interesting, like, When you look at the proportionality of something like that, someone's got a bag of cocaine on them, six months prison max, if they get sent to prison at all. Chances are they get a fine, they get a caution or whatever. Is it proportionate for that small detection to have an officer sat there who's on 30, 40 grand a year for 12 hours a day watching for somebody to go to the toilet? To me, I'd say not. Now, multiply that by three shifts a day, maybe for three or four days, for the sake of that. We did have one lad who had a crap in his cell, fished it out, and then swallowed it again.

54:19He'd already been there for three or four days. Fucking hell. Mate, cops don't deal with the best people in the world. But let's bring it back to you. Let's finish the interview with going, mate, we'll shift from the police and talk about Jay. Talk to me about your uncle's murder. Oh, wow. Okay, so my uncle was a doorman at a big club in Manchester. I was very young at the time. I was like two years old. He was a doorman at a big club in Manchester. He was involved with some organised criminal gangs. Anyway, he was shot, he was murdered by someone in this gang. my father then was tasked because he was involved with it all as well my father was then tasked to move his body to transport his body in a car problem is he fucked it up so then the car was then found this guy was then caught which meant that my dad then had to flee uh to the south of the country never saw him again um dad of heroin he was a heroin user he died when i was about 20 I think I spoke to him once over the phone in my entire life the officer who was then involved with the case so something called a family liaison officer someone who works between the police and the family to console them, to help them, to support them he ended up marrying my mum which of course you would never ever get away with now but this was in the 90s, this was like I said 30 years ago interestingly um we got a knock on the door while my grandmother got a knock on the door 20 years after the murder and it was two detectives saying yeah you know your son who you buried yeah we've still got all these organs in in a freezer in the nick what do you want us to do with them she had no idea i didn't even know this happened like so they've taken the organs out of my uncle's body, froze them, kept them, preserved them for whatever reason.

56:19And he got buried without any organs in them. And it's like, she never consented to that. Is that even a thing? So yeah. So this guy then married my mum. They were together for about 10 years. Very messy divorce, very messy breakup, police officers. I remember coming home one day and I must have been about 10, 10 years old, two police officers in my garden. And I remember there was a plastic little cricket bat, me fucking 10 years old with a little plastic cricket bat walking into the back garden. And of these two cops there, and the reason why they were there was because of the divorce. My mum's husband at the time was on the train track ready to end his life.

57:13And there was loads of things like my childhood's been pretty fraught with chaos, to be honest. And what about your mental health? Spending all their years in the police force, witnessing hangings and brains on the floor and stuff that you wouldn't wish your worst enemy to see. Did it take its toll on you? Has it taken its toll on you? Definitely had my struggles before. My girlfriend now has been an absolute rock to me in the past with it all. you learn to put on what's like i always call it job mode job my arm i'm in the police now you know it's it's kind of like you don't react when you deal with something fucking awful it's like you have that wall up you have that barrier up the problem is when that wall and that mentality starts bleeding into everyday life when you can't feel sad for something genuine what's happening in your day-to-day life because it's all you've always got that wall up so it can make you very emotionally numb and empathy burnout is a massive issue in the police just because you deal with that many awful things if you started to crack at every single one of them you'd be an absolute wreck you have to develop that mindset of going you know okay it's another death it's another hanging and so on or it's another person telling you the worst things imaginable what's ever happened to you so you learn to build that resilience because all that trauma what you're dealing with, it's still there and it still needs to come out.

58:38It's getting in there somehow, isn't it? Absolutely. Even with that wall up. Yeah. And even though you might not deal with it there and then, it's still, you might then wake up with, you know, having night terrors. You might find your alcohol use is going up a little bit more. You're not being able to sleep properly. You might be getting a bit more snack. That's all just signs of PTSD with things, what you've, with the accumulative trauma of what you've dealt with. and I remember one night we was um me and my me and my girlfriend we just we just have the beer it was like a friday night something like I was having a beer and just watching tv and the next thing I know my head is in my hands and I'm just crying my eyes out it was just like for some reason it all just went but it all just overflowed and she was absolute star to me she proper looked after me and it was just that release so I mean I've I've struggled with my mental health before I joined the police due to stuff that's happened to me in early childhood.

59:38But I have absolutely struggled with it during the police as well. And this is when we talk about the welfare side of it. So the police can put on and say we have these welfare days and we have this welfare truck and everything else. but the best welfare support I ever got was I just said to my sergeant one day I said you know that job that hangarman went to the other day yeah I didn't keep thinking about it and just went right okay he put his radio down just went right come on back room I was thinking fucking hell I said something wrong here and he literally sat here like this me and him and he just went we just went had a chat for 15 minutes and that was that was all I needed just that one-on-one vent just that vent and we just was open and honest about because he came to the internet as well um and we had a chat about it and that was great that human touch that human talk with somebody um when i was arrested and then over malicious allegation i was arrested and then i was released i had one cell that was finished i had uh counseling and occupation health support that was really good the worst i ever felt was when i was in an abusive relationship myself and this is why i got so I don't know so passionate about domestic violence and looking at men who get wrongly can wrongly accused and why I saw so much injustice when I was seeing men who frankly have been arrested because they're men and because the police have this agenda of positive action to arrest somebody because they have all the quotas and everything else and I was seeing so many guys being lifted and having their lives ruined which should never have been in that position in the first place because I've been through it because it happened to me.

1:01:19So I was in a very abusive relationship for like six or seven months. And I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but six or seven months in that environment, it feels like years. My ex-partner attacked me. I defended myself and I called the police. So I'm there covered in blood, contacted the police and I said, girlfriend's just attacked me. I've had to hit her back together to stop. I'm now calling you for help They said well what's she doing now They said well she's in the kitchen She's calmed down Oh we're not coming then Sorry What do you mean you're not coming I'm calling you for help I'm bleeding Why not Okay So then I had to kick her out of the house myself And that was the last time I ever saw her I then called the police four times Over the space of 24 hours Asking for help They didn't come I was then And the next day I was in work, in the police, and I was arrested at work because she had called and made a count relegation.

1:02:25They hadn't even gone to see her. Off the back of a phone call, they deemed he's the one in the wrong. We need to arrest him. 12 hours in the cell later, put on bail. It was all, after a couple of months, it was NFA'd. the Crown Prosecution Service and their paperwork actually said why was he arrested when we can clearly see he's the victim we've got all of his statement we've got all of what he said on interview we've got all his injuries we've got the phone call and it all goes against the evidence we have goes against her why why was he arrested or blatant sexism and they sued the force for wrongful arrest in the end.

1:03:03But in that couple of period of, in that period of time, I'm thinking, am I going to get convicted for this? I've not done anything wrong. I've looked after myself, which I'm legally allowed to do. There's a myriad of other incidents which have happened where I've been assaulted repeatedly and I've not reported them. I'm now looking at the social services that are then involved with my family and my son. Am I going to lose my job all these it's some thing you wake up to in the morning and you think about it all day until you go to bed at night so having been through it myself and I was fucking suicidal I was I was on the verge you know and thankfully you know a good support network around me and everything was fine definitely the worst I've ever felt in my life um I'm holding justice around it as well because she never got convicted she never got convicted for anything what she did so there's that there's that side of it as well but then i'm then expected to go and do a job where i'm seeing people who are in my position who i do not believe have warranted the police involvement whatsoever and you're asking me to now try and convict this person and i think that was a big moral shift for me because i've been on the other side of the cell door and i've spoken to people who deal with prisoners, deal with suspects, people on bail, who have told me that as a result of this lock somebody up because it's a stat, leave them on bail for months, people are ending their lives because the families are absolutely turned against them.

1:04:39They lose their jobs. Family relationship breakdown. The stigma as well of people thinking you're a domestic abuser, there's nothing worse than somebody who hits the partner. Why didn't you walk away before it got to a stage where you had to hit her back? As in the relationship in general? Well, there'll be mixed reviews on this one. You could be in the eye of the storm and you've got a woman attacking you. You can turn around and you can walk out and just leave that space. Or you stand your ground and then you react and you hit the woman back. Like, obviously, there's a lot of men out there that just would always say, walk before you raise your hand.

1:05:19But it's very easier said than done. When you're in the eye of the storm and you've got somebody coming at you, you know, there may not be a door near you. So I don't know the scenario. So, yeah, I'm just curious as to why you hit her back instead of just walk out the door. I mean, he was one of them. She was like a feral animal. He was the only way I could get her to stop. and I'm not proud that I had to do that because I've never hurt a woman in my life. I'm not proud I had to do that. And, you know, sometimes I do get a comment saying, oh, well, you're a domestic abuser. I'm not, and I've never, I'm in a happy relationship now.

1:05:53I've been in for, God knows, you know, several years and never so much as an argument. It was a case of that was the only way that I could make this person stop attacking me. This person threatened to stab me before. they'd thrown hot water in my face they'd thrown cups in my head they'd push me they'd it was an incredibly volatile relationship and I'm not a psychiatrist but I strongly suspect that the person I was in the relationship with in my opinion had some kind of personality disorder whether that was borderline personality disorder or whether that was NPD narcissistic personality disorder but even if they didn't what they did and how they treated me was still not okay and when we look at when we look at domestic violence in general there's a lot of emphasis on male to female domestic violence men hurting and killing women that is obviously a massive issue but when we look at it as well we see that actually 40 percent of victims of all domestic violence are actually men but we don't want to talk about that bit because that's unpopular we want to talk about violence against women and girls we don't want to talk about sexual abuse of young boys we don't want to talk about men who are abused by the partners because the methodology of the abuse is different women are more afraid of the physical um violence from a man men are more afraid from women of the reputational damage which a a female abuser can cause there's plenty of men out there who've left a marriage or have left a relationship and now they can't see their children for no reason or they are financially ruined.

1:07:30That is a form of abuse. It's just not as recognised as domestic abuse. And there's also men who will not leave an abusive partner because they're afraid of a malicious allegation. They're afraid of being accused of rape. They're afraid of being accused of domestic assault. I've dealt with plenty of cases where a male has rang the police. There was one in particular. a male rang the police on the ring doorbell you can see him on the phone to the police he's got a ripped top he's got claw marks on his face similar to myself claw marks on his face and he's called the police and said my partner's just attacked me I'm bleeding and everything else cops have turned up they've then gone into the home they've then spoken to the female who's drunk who has then made a cat relegation guess which one ended up in handcuffs it was the man the man ended up in handcuffs and on an interview he's turned around and said I've tried to leave this woman so many times every time I try I end up here because she won't let me leave without making a malicious allegation against me and then with the cycle of abuse following the uh the the cataclysmic incident then comes back there I'm sorry I love you let's have a you know let's go back together and then the cycle continues again so it's male domestic abuse is something which is just not focused on as much and i mean to put to put the question back on yourself if it was a woman who had to strike their partner to get them off them would you ask why they hit monday on nbc all new line of fire the thrilling new crime drama the world sees us as heroes but they don't know what the job really costs.

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1:10:05Read PG-13. No. So there we go. That's what I mean. It's the perception of the incident's completely different. From a personal standpoint, I am biased with the whole men and women dynamic. I'm probably the worst person to ask that because I've got a high threshold for, I suppose, abuse. And I just got that in me that I would be able to stand there and take a lot of abuse, physical and verbal, and with a woman and just say, that's just now ended us and I'm walking away. If it was a bloke, I'd ravage him like a fucking wild animal. Yeah, absolutely. But I've spoke to so many people that have been in your situation as well.

1:10:47And I have to play devil's advocate by asking the question because you've also got a lot of men that have been attacked by their girlfriends that have said to me, if she wants to behave like a man, I'm going to treat her like a man. So I get both sides and they're never straightforward ever. But I do know that the man gets the rough end of the deal. He is guilty just off the allegation and his reputation is tarnished. And if he's in the limelight, a public figure, and that makes the press, before it's even gone to court, pretty much your reputation destroyed forever. Yeah, it's not the situation anybody ever wants to be in.

1:11:21And I mean, I remember seeing there was a video, it was like one of these social experiments, and it was a man is attacking a woman, not attacking, but it's being a bit rough with her in public. Within a few seconds, people running over, get the fuck off what you're doing. Then it was the flip side, it was a woman hitting the man and people actually start pulling the phone out and recording it and filming it and thinking it was funny so it's almost like if the man's the abuser so it's almost like if the man's the one being abused he's not man enough to stand up for himself if the man tries to defend himself the man's the abuser so the man can't win so when it comes to domestic abuse in relation to men men are fucked on the balance of probability so in the civil court it isn't a case of okay well can we actually prove this beyond no reason or doubt like we need to in a criminal court but in the civil court it's well we're quite risk averse we don't want to we don't want to risk it so yeah grant that restraining order it's a man who suffers and this is a big part of i think male suicide which people don't talk about is the domestic element side is it the side of domestic abuse because when i tell you i was close ending my life like that's not an understatement if it wasn't for my son god knows what where i would have been when i was going through all that now when you get people who have been alienated from the from the pet from the children you get people who have lost their jobs you get people who have frankly been a victim of a punitive system such as the police with how they're working right now due to this model of arrest first ask questions later, abusers are using the police as a method of abuse to further exert their power and control over their victims.

1:13:09So if, for example, a woman tries to leave the relationship, the man can ring up and go, she's just punched me. Woman gets locked up. And vice versa is also true. So as a result of this ethos what the police now have we're actually making victims worse off under the guise of protecting people and it's totally wrong, totally wrong and disgusting Well I mean this interview took a turn that I weren't expecting so my final question to you would have been what would you say to anybody considering joining the police force or how can the police force be saved but rather than me ask you a specific question because we've touched base on policing and domestic violence and wrongful arrests.

1:13:59You pick any one of those three. So it's important to you. What would your final message to anybody watching and listening be? If you want to join the police, remember they are your powers. You cannot be sacked or reprimanded for doing something which you do not believe is right. When the police is based on the code of ethics and honesty and integrity is the fucking focal point of that. It's the pillar everything else rests on. So if you join the police, make sure you keep your moral compass intact. You do an incredible job. The wrong people get promoted for the wrong reasons. I think what we need to do is we need to restructure the police force based on who's actually the best leader and not just who makes the police force look better because we would have a dramatically different police force overnight.

1:14:53To the good police officers out there, I would say you wear uniform with pride. It's an amazing job what you do. And despite all of the shit which gets piled on you, the world is a better and safer place with you in it. To the bad police officers and to the supervisors who get promoted off the back of stepping on other people, destroying service to the public, victimising people who shouldn't be victimised, you're an absolute disgrace in the uniform and you should resign immediately. That's what I'd say. Okay. I will put Jay's social media links in the description. He's got a YouTube channel. I'll put Instagram, X, all the other ones in there.

1:15:30If you want to follow Jay's journey, please do so. Remember to like and subscribe to this page also. It takes you two seconds, costs you zero, and I can keep having these kind of conversations that you won't really get elsewhere. I wish the best for you for the future. People will judge the whole domestic violence thing. What I can confirm is that your girlfriend is sat right there. You're a current partner who's been very supportive, even in the green room to now. So I can at least vouch that you're in a nice, peaceful, loving relationship and it's nothing like the one you was in before. And I wish you all the best for the future.

1:16:03It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Cheers, brother.

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