In short
Ex-Muslim guest Nuriyah Khan discusses Islam as an “expansionist political ideology,” arguing that Islamic texts and history enable child marriage, coercive gender control, and legal systems that harm women. She also recounts her personal experiences of religious policing in Saudi Arabia, public executions, and an abusive marriage she links to Sharia-based enforcement. She warns Britain to “beware” of an Islamic takeover.
Guest background
Nuriyah Khan is an ex-Muslim woman born in London into a Sunni Muslim family; her grandfather was an imam. She says she became highly devout as a child, wearing hijab around age nine. She moved to Saudi Arabia at nine, where she describes mutawa (religious police) enforcing dress and behavior, and she later lived in Dubai. She later left Islam and became an apostate.
Key claims
Aisha was nine when Muhammad consummated their marriage; Islam has no lower marriage age limit. Quran/Sharia are used to justify wife discipline (including beating) and to deny women agency. Rape accusations require four male witnesses, making convictions unlikely and punishing victims. She claims hijab/niqab originate from coercive practices tied to historical figures and are enforced by threats.
Notable examples
Mutawa whipping a woman in a supermarket for uncovered hair; “Chop Chop Square” in Riyadh for amputations/beheadings; a Dubai rape case where the victim is treated as perpetrator; her own escape from a husband using Sharia-based custody/guardianship tactics and police harassment; threats and backlash after leaving Islam.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOIntroduction of Nuriyah Khan
0:45 to 2:06
Liam introduces Nuriyah Khan and her views on Islam.
“New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock.”
Nuriyah's Early Life and Radicalization
2:26 to 6:32
Nuriyah discusses her upbringing in a conservative Muslim household.
“Go and have a look at their website, see if there's anything in there for you.”
Defining Age in Islam
6:32 to 8:04
Discussion on the implications of turning nine in Islam for girls.
“You said that in Islam for a girl stroke woman, nine years old is a defining age.”
Controversy Around Aisha
8:04 to 10:38
Exploration of the marriage of Muhammad and Aisha, and its implications.
“Like you're expected to transition into this at that age.”
Consequences of Islamic Teachings
10:38 to 13:00
The effect of Islamic teachings on women's rights and societal norms.
“Two things that sort of drive me mad is one, when you put that argument to a Muslim or an imam, a leader, you know, a spokesperson for the religion.”
Covering Modesty in Islam
13:00 to 14:00
Discussing the reasons and variations of women's coverings in Islam.
“And slowly but surely, the more they see, the more it becomes the norm.”
The Hijab's Historical Context
14:00 to 18:19
Explore the origins of the hijab and its implications in Islamic history.
“Obviously, there's various versions of how to cover yourself.”
Life Under Religious Policing in Saudi Arabia
18:20 to 19:59
Understand the oppressive nature of the religious police and their impact on daily life.
“Okay, so that was kind of perfect timing.”
Public Punishments at Chop Chop Square
20:00 to 22:39
Learn about the brutal punishments enforced in Saudi Arabia and their societal implications.
“Yeah, I mean, they would, some of my friends' dads would be trying to come home for Father's Day after work.”
Rape Laws and Women's Rights Under Sharia
22:40 to 25:59
Discuss the draconian rape laws and their devastating effects on women in Islamic countries.
“And you're laying in bed at night and you're thinking this is slowly but surely becoming an Islamic state.”
Show all 29 chapters
Post-9/11 Life in Saudi Arabia
26:00 to 28:00
Examine the changes in Saudi Arabia following the 9/11 attacks and their effects on Western expats.
“To think that we have people over in the UK that protest against people that object to Sharia law, that were born and bred in this country.”
Living in Saudi Arabia: Tensions and Threats
28:00 to 29:20
Explore the tensions of being a Western expat in Saudi Arabia and the fear of violence.
“you say to convert to Islam on the spot.”
Cautionary Tales About Dubai
29:20 to 31:18
Learn about the hidden dangers and cultural misconceptions of moving to Dubai.
“Obviously people are going to take their families, take their wives, take their daughters.”
Escaping an Abusive Marriage
31:18 to 38:03
Hear a personal account of emotional and psychological abuse in marriage.
“But if you get some drugs planted somewhere that have got nothing to do with you, the police don't carry out investigations and, you know, follow due process in the way that they follow here.”
The Struggles of Leaving an Abusive Relationship
38:03 to 42:01
Understand the complexities and risks involved in leaving an abusive spouse.
“And I didn't think that would be a part of it.”
Escaping Danger in the UAE
42:01 to 43:01
Hear a harrowing escape story from a dangerous situation in the UAE.
“my ex-husband was bribing the police as well.”
Reflections on a Powerful Recollection
43:04 to 43:44
The guest shares insights on their experiences and the impact of gaslighting.
“May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller.”
Realizations About Sharia Law
43:44 to 45:14
A deep dive into the interpretation of Sharia law and its implications.
“It will sound very familiar to some people because a lot of people don't even realize they're in these situations when they are because of the gaslighting.”
The Backlash of Apostasy
45:14 to 47:50
Exploring the personal consequences faced after leaving Islam.
“So disobedience can be construed as anything, Liam.”
Debating as an Ex-Muslim
47:50 to 49:46
Understanding the unique challenges in debating Islamic beliefs as an ex-Muslim.
“Obviously, we talked about my debates, but other than that, just for a few kind of prominent debates, I don't really, you know, I've come to my conclusion.”
The Complexity of Quranic Verses
49:46 to 51:08
A discussion on the Quran's structure and the doctrine of abrogation.
“it's organized in a way that's kind of not chronological and not in order of the revelations that Muhammad got.”
Support Systems for Apostates
51:08 to 54:09
The role and necessity of support groups for those leaving Islam.
“And that's why I find it extremely disturbing when I do debate Islamic scholars.”
The Appeal of Islam's Structure
54:09 to 56:00
Analyzing why some find appeal in the rigid structure of Islam.
“It's like tension in the air until the door is locked.”
The Perception of Strength in Islam
56:00 to 1:10:00
Exploration of how some men perceive strength in Islam and its implications.
“And also, as you said, like, Islam respects strength.”
Engaging Ex-Muslim Perspectives
1:10:00 to 1:10:42
Explore the insights and experiences of an ex-Muslim discussing Islam's impact.
“And what you've just said there has really rung alarm bells.”
Life After Leaving Islam
1:11:05 to 1:14:54
Understand the liberation and challenges faced after leaving Islam.
“May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller.”
Speaking Out Against Islam
1:14:54 to 1:16:42
Discuss the risks and motivations behind speaking out against Islam.
“see a lot of young people turning away from Islam the more they learn about it.”
Advice for Women Leaving Islam
1:16:42 to 1:19:02
Receive crucial advice for women contemplating leaving Islam for safety and empowerment.
“And I'll put all your links in the description as well.”
Final Messages and Closing Thoughts
1:19:02 to 1:19:46
Hear final thoughts on personal connections and the importance of support.
“the bigger the platform, the better the guest and the more interesting conversations we can have that the mainstream would never even consider having or platforming in their wildest dreams.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00You fell in love at first crunch, and now the crispy chicken crunch wrap slider is back at Taco Bell. But with a twist, it's crispy all-white meat chicken nuggets inside a slider-sized crunch wrap. But now you can enjoy them with the kick of Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch. Or try the tortilla chip-coated nuggets on their own. They're waiting for you. The crispy chicken crunch wrap slider, a brand new classic, is back. Only at Taco Bell. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's jar something loose. Ay, yes! I like that.
0:34The Certified Fresh Series returns. Your boss. You always like this, or is this just an act, oh no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody! There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to wear. I grew up thinking, you know, Enoch Powell was a far-right thug with his rivers of blood speech. It's all coming to fruition. Islam is always encroaching. To confirm, was Aisha 9 when the Prophet Muhammad consummated their marriage? Yes. He eyed her up when she was literally a little baby.
1:11But if you go to the Quran, there's not even a lower limit. The floor is open, like, to rampant abuse of children. What is Chop Chop Square and what goes on there? Sharia is divine law. It's Islamic law. It comes straight out of the Quran. actually God's words turned into the law that is infallible and it's timeless. In Islam, I either belong to my husband or my dad, right? I'm never myself because I don't have any agency. If you fear disobedience from your wife, you can admonish her, separate your bed and then beat her. They overcompensate with this crazy alphaness. I've got multiple women and my women are covered and they only speak when they're spoken to.
1:45Women can't laugh out loud and they can't sing and they can't talk out loud because their voice is temptation. It's not just a religion. It is literally an expansionist political ideology. You nearly became the next Shamima Begum.
2:06I want to say a quick thank you to our sponsors Gold Seal. I use their products every single day and now I finally get to work with them. I use their products for anti-inflammatory, reduced anxiety, better sleep and mental clarity. I'm going to put a link to their website in the description, along with the 10 % discount code for you to take advantage of. Go and have a look at their website, see if there's anything in there for you. I hope you enjoy this week's episode and good health. Naria. Hi, Liam. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I've seen you say some very, very interesting, worrying things about Islam.
2:44And I've never interviewed an ex-Muslim woman before. and I'm very interested to get your take on a plethora of things. And the one thing that really sparked my attention was I heard you say that you nearly became the next Shamima Begum. Can you start by just giving some context to that? Yeah, sure. So that's quite like a grand statement to make. But what I meant by that is I was on course to be that kind of radicalised with just the way that my natural upbringing was going. So I was born in London and I was born into what I would consider a moderate to conservative Sunni Muslim household. But basically my granddad was the imam of the local mosque and that's kind of a big deal within the community if you hold the keys to the local mosque and you open it before the dawn prayer every morning.
3:41So you're kind of really respected. and I was very close to him because I was giving a lot of attention and my time. I had a lot of time for Islam basically at that age and he was obviously positively reinforcing that. So a lot of times after school we'd have to go to the mosque every day anyway to learn Quran but I would like turn that into extracurricular activities and start memorizing the Quran verses in Arabic. I try to then memorize the English translations as well which is very difficult to do at the same time as like, you know, a seven, eight, nine year old girl. But I would enter into these Quran recital competitions at the mosque and like really try and pronounce it the way that Saudi scholars expect you to recite the Quran, even though women aren't really supposed to do that publicly.
4:29In London, it's different and you can because you're kids and you know, it's reinforcing your religion. So I would really, really spend a lot of time at the mosque. And I I was one of the first people in my class when the Quran teacher told us that, you know, nine years old is a defining year for a woman, a girl, shouldn't even say woman. But in Islam, this is where you kind of things change and you should wear a hijab if you want to please God and you want to go to heaven. I did it straight away, like no second thoughts. I thought everybody around me that refused to do it, including the women in my own family, were on the wrong path.
5:05I thought there was something seriously wrong with them. They didn't want to get to heaven. They didn't want to do right in God's eyes. And I started being like the kind of poster girl for Islam in my community. So at school, when we had RE classes, I would kind of be dismissive of the other religions and I would really kind of gas up Islam. When it came time to present Islam, I would like volunteer to show the class how to pray. So I was getting really, really kind of, you know, bogged into the religion. would walk around and I would think that the hijab wearing it, like I should be so proud of it because this marks me as a, you know, a good Muslim girl.
5:43And that differentiates me from the people around me. And then as I'm sure you've heard, Islam and the Quran tells you that, you know, Jews and Christians and especially polytheists, but Jews and Christians are on the wrong path as well. So you'd feel like you would feel the superiority complex that, you know, You're onto something and you're living life on the right track and walking by a pub that's somewhere you'd never step into. And, you know, what are these people doing that go there? And it was kind of that mentality that was like starting to take root in my mind. And bear in mind, I'm only literally between seven and nine years old at this point.
6:23But then ironically, we moved to Saudi Arabia, the House of Islam, and that all changed. Wow. Let me come on to that in a second. You said that in Islam for a girl stroke woman, nine years old is a defining age. What does that even mean? It means that things start to get serious for you. So gone are the days now where you can, you know, wear sleeveless tops maybe if you were doing that or you're not allowed to wear shorts anymore, even in front of your male relatives. You should start to wear hijab if you're taking this religion seriously. And you're meant to be trying to fast every Ramadan. You're meant to be starting to pray five times a day.
7:04But basically now your body becomes shameful and, yeah, you should start thinking differently about who you are and why you exist. Cool. That seems very heavy going for a nine-year-old to adopt. You're sort of losing your liberty very early on. You're not, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you're not given a great, well, any time to make up your own mind, really. It's kind of immediate. This is now what happens. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, like my initial instruction came from my Quran teacher who was, you know, she wore hijab herself. She wore the full shebang. But her just saying that to me and then giving me the example of like the prophet's wives or the prophet's child bride, Aisha, was enough for me to be like, well, if Aisha did it at that age, then, you know, this is the age where things get serious.
7:49So you're right. Absolutely. Like I was, you know, still kind of a tomboy at that stage. I was really interested in playing football and sports. But I kind of had to nip it all in the bud a little bit to, you know, go ahead with whatever I was told to do. But and can you imagine, obviously, Liam, in most Muslim households, this is just the default position. Like you're expected to transition into this at that age. I was an anomaly because my parents and my family were a bit like, are you sure you're very young? And so they took a more liberal approach to it. And it was me with my pre-Shamima Begum mindset being like, no, I'm 100 % sure this is the right thing to do until I grew out of it.
8:29So just want to sort of get under the bonnet of that whole nine-year-old thing, because I hear imams contradict themselves as to when the Prophet Muhammad consummated the marriage by, I mean, in today's standards, it would be rape. But he consummated the marriage by having sex with her at nine. That's the general consensus, but some, I don't know, they sort of change the wording or the history of it and say, no, it's actually much later on in life. But most imams I've heard and top scholars have said that she was nine and he was 56. Yeah, he was in his 50s, basically. And she was definitely not, as an ex-Muslim, to confirm, was Aisha nine when the Prophet Muhammad consummated their marriage?
9:12Yes. Okay, that would make sense as to why when you're nine in Islam, it's now time to start covering your modesty and just completely sort of changing and almost submitting to the religion mindlessly. You got it. Exactly. And honestly, Liam, you're 100 % right. This has just become an issue in the last like decade or so when Islam scriptures kind of became more readily available, that they had to scramble to make it a little bit more like palatable or kind of defend it in front of Western audiences. But prior to that, nobody had an issue with the fact that in Islam, Muhammad married Aisha at six and raped her at nine.
9:54There was no issue. It was accepted in the Islamic world for, you know, literally years. And now, obviously, it's, you know, every non-Muslim out there knows of this and they use it as their first defense. So Muslims have tried to find any other way to justify, as you said, they would say, oh, nine back then actually meant 17 turning 18. Or, you know, silly things like, oh, women got puberty quicker then. And he waited three years. Who waits? But I mean, in the sources, she's playing with dolls. And it's verbatim written that, you know, she was nine years old when that happened. If you look into the life of Muhammad, you can clearly see he eyed her up when she was literally a little baby.
10:35And he only, you know, acted on that at six. actually wedded her. Two things that sort of drive me mad is one, when you put that argument to a Muslim or an imam, a leader, you know, a spokesperson for the religion. And they'll say, he'll say, well, things were different back then. See, to me, as a well balanced man, I think, well, it wasn't different back then. A six year old will always be a six year old. And a 50 year old will always be a 50-year-old or 52, 54, whatever. The gulf in between has always been the same. There's a humongous biological difference and psychological difference, like the front cortex part of your brain isn't even formed yet.
11:16How on earth can you make consensual decisions to allow a fully grown man to enter you with his erect penis? And I know it's a graphic way of describing it, but when you think of it like that in stereo, my frustration is that no one wants to condemn it. They make excuses for it and say it was different. It's like, at least put your hands up and say, what a despicable act. And if we move forward to present time, it's completely unacceptable and it's not the behaviour of a perfect person. Exactly. And that's where the issue lies is because this man is like he's considered the flawless example of mankind.
11:52And he's considered an example that Muslim men are supposed to emulate. So what kind of example are you setting? If this was like, you know, a historical figure, then obviously lifespans were shorter. you know, people were dying in wars and raids and all sorts. But this is the man that is like been kind of set cemented in stone in the Islamic ideology, that he was perfect. And if you see the practical consequences of this, for example, what happens in Afghanistan, when the Taliban have come into power, men are selling their little girls as young as, you know, nine and below just, you know, to be able to secure their next meal.
12:30And why do they think that that's okay is because under Islamic law, it is okay. Like Muhammad's example was bad enough. But if you go to the Quran, there's not even a lower limit on marrying a child. There's no set limit. So between that and that, you've got just the floor is open, like to rampant abuse of children. It breaks my heart hearing it like that, especially from somebody that is qualified to discuss this subject matter and this ideology. When things creep in subtly, although I think the wave of Islam is no longer subtle, but when it first started creeping into the West and into the UK, people would obviously be looking around, looking at more burqas and hijabs popping up.
13:13And slowly but surely, the more they see, the more it becomes the norm. And I doubt they even question, why are they wearing a full face covering? So why do Muslim women have to wear a full face covering or even just sort of even with the face on display, but the rest of it all covered? And is it their choice predominantly to do that? Because I know that there's going to be more flexible, you know, moderate Muslims that treat the Quran like a buffet and take little bits and they're far more relaxed and kind of Westernised. But predominantly, if we're talking about real Islam, Why do women have to cover their modesty, including their face?
13:55And has a woman sort of in the grasp of Islam have any choice in the matter? Obviously, there's various versions of how to cover yourself. If you look at the Islamic world, it differs slightly between like the Afghan niqab versus the Iranian. They call it the chador. Again, different ways of just covering themselves from head to like head to about their belly button. Saudi Arabia is different as well but essentially it all comes down to a verse in the Quran and a story in Islamic history which had I known and I'm sure had any Muslim woman known before they did it they'd probably be repulsed at why it's even come about in the first place but funnily enough it didn't even according I just go by what the Islamic sources say it didn't even come down initially from Muhammad himself.
14:45It was one of his companions, his right-hand man, who was quite a thug, actually, Omar ibn Khadab. He would do these sex raids at night into neighbouring villages and stuff. And so he essentially would mistake some of the women that he would capture to sexually harass as the Muslim women because they would go to the fields at night to let nature take its call, basically. Sex raids? Yeah, yeah. Raid a house, take a woman out for sex against their will. Yes, exactly. So this man, Umar ibn Khadab, he is like a degenerate in Islamic history. And it seems from Islamic history that even at times Muhammad was afraid of him and kind of never wanted to rile him up.
15:29So I've done a video about this as well. There's a few verses in the Quran, which again made me really question how divine is this book, and it's not at all, is because three of those verses that made it into the Quran were Umar ibn Khadab's wants, essentially. And he kept asking Muhammad over and over again, like, you know, hey, hey, let's get this in there. Come on now. So one night, Muhammad's wives, when they went to answer nature's call, one of his wives, Sauda, she's a very, very tall lady. And so she was in the fields and Umar ibn Khadab was wanting to go on one of his sex raids at night.
16:04And he noticed her and he thought, okay, we need to stop. if I harassed her, she's obviously the prophet's wife. So we need to put something in place that makes me realize, you know, as a marker, who's open for harassment and who's not. And that's why I always bring it back to how dark the concept of the hijab, basic hijab, or like if you want to go into niqab and all that, it's even worse. But even just the hijab is actually in the Quran, it says, they don't even hide it. It says, tell your Muslim women to, you know, bring down their outer garments over their bosom so that they are not molested or harassed.
16:39So what does that mean? That all the women who are uncovered are free to be molested and harassed. And it goes even further because there are stories in the Islamic sources where Omar ibn Khadab actually, he punishes a woman, a slave woman who was non-Muslim, for trying to cover herself to look like a Muslim woman so she wouldn't be harassed. And he literally uncovers her and says, you have to walk around half naked because you're not a Muslim. Wow. So in your professional opinion, is the burqa a suppressive garment or is it a sign of sophistication? Absolutely the former. There's no there's no question about it, for sure.
17:18I think it's like a symbol of how repressed women are. If there was even like a strong possibility that this was like some empowered individual choice, I would lean to say, you know, maybe it is that for some women. But by and large, most Muslim women who wear that, there are severe consequences that they're about to face if they even try to remove it by the men in their lives. It's ironic that you get sort of hardline feminists defending women that wear the burqa without even investigating whether it was their choice or not. Yeah, absolutely. And most cases, honestly, the coercion, the psychological coercion that goes on behind closed doors, just the expectation that you're supposed to wear it.
18:01And then even like within families, the fact that you're told that, you know, you have to cover up in front of your uncles and people like that, it perpetuates this rape culture because the modesty culture is so embedded from when you're a child. Yeah, that can't instill a great deal of faith in men for a young girl. So did you start wearing yours when you was about nine? Yeah. Wow. And then when did you move to Saudi? When I was nine. When you was nine. Okay, so that was kind of perfect timing. You would sort of fit in there quite nicely. And what was it like in Saudi? What were the police force like in Saudi Arabia?
18:33The police force, when I was there, was like something out of a parallel universe going from London. It's just like if you think of something out of like, what's that show? The Handmaid's Tale in a way that it was, they were called the religious police. They called them mutawa and they would honestly walk around with their long beards. They would wear the white tobes and they would carry sticks in their hand to like actually discipline people on the spot. So if you were seen mixing with the opposite gender, if you were seen to not be covered properly. For example, I remember my mum was in the supermarket once with two of her English friends.
19:11And one of them just had like she didn't have the hijab on here. She had it kind of low down like that. So a little bit of her blonde hair was showing. Lo and behold, the mutawa show up in the supermarket and they literally put the whip on their hand and they say, you need to lift it up and cover yourself. And I remember she tried to challenge a little bit and says, oh, but I don't believe this. And he went, cover up now. And obviously out of fear, she put her hijab on straight away. But that also reinforced my mother's fear of when we all go out, you know, you need to be completely covered because we are Muslim, especially.
19:41So it was a very, very weird, toxic culture of like this morality police, kind of a snapshot of what you see in Iran at the moment. Yeah, I asked about the police. It was the first thing that come into my head because I've heard of them being called the religious police. Which I suppose over here are police are supposed to police without fear or favour, which obviously sounds very opposite to Saudi Arabia. Yeah, I mean, they would, some of my friends' dads would be trying to come home for Father's Day after work. And if it was like prayer time and they hadn't stopped their car to go to the nearest mosque, they would be pulled over and forced to pray on the side of the road or go to the local mosque.
20:24And they'd miss all their like, you know, festivities at home because the Mutawa stopped them to like force them to do a demonstration of prayer. So it was wild. Chop Chop Square. That's a place I've heard about in Saudi Arabia. What is Chop Chop Square and what goes on there? Chop Chop Square is a place in Riyadh, the capital of Saudi, where literally after Friday prayers, according to the Islamic Hadoud punishments, where you get your right hand chopped off if you stole something with your right hand, your left hand chopped off if you've done that, they carry out those amputations or worse, beheadings in that area.
21:03And that's why it's known as Chop Chop Square. Saudi Arabia has a designated executioner whose job it is just to carry out these, you know, awful punishments on the weekends. So we had a we had a chop chop square light, if you will, where I lived in the city of Jadda. It was it was deemed to be a little bit more liberal than Riyadh. Thankfully, I think life in Riyadh would have been absolutely stifling, but we would hear of the same things. So you can go to a mosque on Friday because Friday is the special prayer for Muslims. Then afterwards, you're welcome to go and see that. Wow. Like they're equivalent to the theatre, but you're watching people getting executed publicly.
21:44What sort of things would you have to do in Saudi Arabia to get your limbs chopped off or get your head chopped off in public? You'd have to either steal, you would have to be involved in some kind of drug trafficking, supplying alcohol to the wrong person on the wrong day, potentially even apostasy. But drugs, that's a big thing there. It's the death penalty. Adultery can get you into that situation because Islam has the death penalty for adultery as well. But yeah, honestly, it's so dependent on the mood of the police officers and the mood on, you know, the higher ups at the time that if you catch them on a good day, you might get let off scot free.
22:31If you don't, you might lose your life. There's something I've heard and I've never I've never really asked a question before. You hear a lot about Islam and sometimes actually I try not to absorb too much because it's quite negative and you've got to take those thoughts home with you. And you're laying in bed at night and you're thinking this is slowly but surely becoming an Islamic state. And people may think that's far fetched, but, you know, the stats don't lie. And if you look what happened in Iran in 1979 with the revolution, like don't think it can't happen here if we're not careful. But there's something I've heard about if a woman is raped, there needs to be a certain amount of witnesses.
23:11And if a woman has been raped, she gets punished. Now, that could be way off. I've heard it on a number of occasions. Is there any truth and substance to that? Yeah. You need to. It's ridiculous. You need to prove rape with four witnesses who have, to say it like in a less graphic way, to have seen the kind of fountain pen in the ink position. And you need four men to have seen that. Why they would have seen that, stood by and done nothing is beyond me. But that's kind of the threshold in Islam. So like I grew up in Saudi Arabia and Dubai. if a woman in Dubai got raped or like I actually had an art teacher in Saudi Arabia, a lovely woman.
23:58And she was driven to the middle of the desert at night by a taxi driver. She got raped there and left out there to die. She somehow made her way back towards the city and got on the flight the next day, gave her resignation to the school, never came back because she knew that if she even tried to go to the police there, that would be completely her fault. The same thing happens in the UAE all the time where if a woman gets sexually abused or anything to that effect, the quickest and most easiest way to deal with that is honestly to pack your bags and go back home because the police will make you the perpetrator of that crime and say that you've done something wrong and you'll be punished for it.
24:38And you're like a lot of women in Dubai end up going to jail when they've been raped. Yeah, you see, that blows my mind. And that's, again, it's another heartbreaking aspect of an ideology that I just, I'm never going to fully accept. well, I'm not going to accept it, period, especially when, you know, you are telling me this. I'm not talking to Jim down the pub who's had to cut the bevies and he's repeating what he's heard from someone else in another pub. I'm talking to an ex-female Muslim that's lived in Saudi Arabia. So this is under Sharia law. So by rights, under Sharia law in Saudi Arabia, for example, a woman can be raped by a man and it can be witnessed by two other men seeing the fountain pen going into the ink very graphic and that won't be enough that won't be enough for a conviction you'll still be deemed as the perpetrator Absolutely and interestingly Liam, I always wondered why four?
25:32What's this obsession with four? But interestingly it comes down to Aisha, Mohammed's child bride was accused of adultery at one point and Mohammed and there were three witnesses and obviously Mohammed did not want that to be part of his life story and to have that on his conscience that his child bride could potentially be interested in somebody her own age. And so he upped the level to four, which is why we're stuck with this ludicrous thing we've got today where women are raped all the time and they're afraid to go to the authorities. To think that we have people over in the UK that protest against people that object to Sharia law, that were born and bred in this country.
26:13I mean, we've got a legal system over here that's always worked very fine. We're very civilised. We're very fair. We're very balanced. We have a judge and a jury and a legal system. And the majority of the time, justice does prevail. We don't need Sharia law over here. And people are entitled to be concerned about that. And I think people should listen loud and clear to what you just said, even if you need to rewind that a little bit and listen to that back. Under Sharia law, it's a completely different universe of rules. And it doesn't go in the favour of the female. And when you think I'm a man with a mother, I have to think about my mother, my wife.
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26:49Would I want them being treated like that? My daughter. Yeah, it blows my mind. Was you living in Saudi Arabia when 9-11 took place? Yeah. How did they respond over there to that atrocity? That's really interesting. So because I was in a, I guess, thankfully, because it's what made Saudi Arabia actually a pleasant experience for me, regardless of what was going on outside. but I lived on a very international compound that had a heavy US military presence. So essentially life changed forever. Saudi Arabia went like my compound, especially within Jeddah, went on extremely high alert. And that day from that day onwards, just like the policing, the security to enter the compound and to leave the compound just to go to school.
27:31There would be sandbags and machine men with machine guns standing there, like literally following our bus, following every car into the compound. You'd have to stop for checks under your cars. A lot of like my neighbors and people from the Western world got bars put on their windows in case a terrorist attack, like a retaliatory attack was imminent on our compound. So even like my neighbors from New Zealand, they actually asked me to teach them the Shahada, which is like what you say to convert to Islam on the spot. And I remember jokingly saying to them, if terrorists storm this compound, they're not going to go door to door and like check if you're Muslim, like they'll just blow up the whole thing.
28:11And they said, no, but like whatever chance we have, let's take it. So they put, you know, like a little Allah Muhammad or like a Bismillah, which is just the thing you say before you start a prayer outside their house, just in case there was to be an attack. We had terrorist drills at school as well. So, yeah, there was a lot of tension there between, you know, being a Western expat living in Saudi Arabia. It was it was the end of the kind of, you know, secure way of life that was up to that point. Just the Muta 'wah was our biggest threat or like pissing off a Saudi because you're not supposed to do that in Saudi Arabia.
28:46But now it was very much like this, this international tension you feel. Are you connected? Is your father connected with a Western company? How do Saudis feel about that? Before I move on to something more personal about you as a human being, we have a lot of people moving out to Dubai now. And Dubai is very much painted as like the perfect place, the new paradise. And people are fleeing there, you know, in their scores. And they're celebrating and promoting Dubai as, you know, this is the future for Brits, not Spain anymore. Obviously people are going to take their families, take their wives, take their daughters.
29:26Is there any kind of cautionary tale about Dubai for people that are just seeing how Instagrammable it is, like the freedom of women over there? And are there rules that you know about in Dubai that I wouldn't necessarily know? Yeah, I mean, there's plenty of cautionary tales. I was about to be one. I'm glad I'm not. But literally, even while I was there, I was, you know, always alert to the fact that you hear stories of Brits going out there and the basic things happening. I mean, there was a man who brushed against an Emirati man in a bar because he didn't want his beer to spill. And that Emirati man just took it the wrong way.
30:06And again, the hierarchy there is such that, you know, Emiratis call the shots, obviously, because it's their country and that's how they like to operate. and they've got their own issues with other various Arab states, but then it's like the Westerners and then it's all the modern slave labor that they've imported from South Asia and the Philippines and that. So there is definitely a hierarchy that operates in the UAE and you're given job opportunities and your salaries based on the passport that you hold. But if you get on the wrong side of an Emirati, that could be it for you. And the police like to make examples out of people.
30:40So I'm sure even if you Google like Brits in Dubai, There's been stories where, you know, a man had a little bit of marijuana on the bottom of his shoe and the Dubai authorities stopped him and made such a big deal out of him. And they try and make examples of these Brits. Some of them end up on death row. And then it takes like the case going public or at that time getting Boris Johnson involved or something to try and get out of that or striking a deal with England. But absolutely, I think people need to realize that all that glitters is not gold. Dubai is, you know, it's great until it's not.
31:16Yes, it's tax free. Yes, you know, work hard, play hard. There's brunches every Sunday. You get to go to the beach. It's like sunshine. Crazy hot sunshine, though. Like you need AC. It's horrible, suffocating at times. But it's not like when you said for women, especially if you try and get a divorce out there, if you've been sexually abused, if you've been sexually harassed, if your boyfriend turns out to be a bit shady, if you get mixed up in a, you know, not just even not even anything to do with you. But if you get some drugs planted somewhere that have got nothing to do with you, the police don't carry out investigations and, you know, follow due process in the way that they follow here.
31:55So you can expect anything to happen to you. And if you look at the prisons that they have out in the middle of the deserts, that is not something you ever want to kind of be a part of. So now it's getting a bit more lax but previously even in Dubai to do business if you had a check that bounced you could go to jail so that's how like you know I mean that they don't mess around when it comes to this stuff and once in a while they do like to make an example out of a Brit or some kind of other Westerner just to kind of show who calls the shots so just as a swift reminder know your place you're a guest here I mean I wish that we would adopt not quite as extreme rigid rules like that.
32:35But if you come over here, have some national pride or at least respect it. But that just sounds far too dogmatic and dangerous for me. Now, if I overstep the mark, do tell me because I want you to feel very comfortable. But I know that you've been in an abusive marriage. Are you happy to talk about that? Yeah. What took place and what led to the abuse and what was the overall picture? What caused the abuse? Essentially, in our culture, you get married pretty young because that's the next natural step after university and, you know, for you to be able to live your life. So I did that. There's no kind of dating.
33:16So you can't really vet people in the same way that you would if you were to like date them more long term or, you know, go through a series of boyfriends, you know, you're not given that space to do that. So essentially, what you probably see is like your parents' marriage, however good or bad, and the marriages around you and then boom, you marry one person and you just deal with whatever cards you're dealt kind of thing. And that's the thinking. So nobody in my family had ever even been divorced. But after the honeymoon, he just kind of like, it was like a switch just flipped. He just became extremely psychologically abusive, very verbally abusive, very manipulative.
33:51And I think genuinely there was some underlying personality disorder there, like mental health conditions that were very much hidden from me at the time that this whole marriage stuff was going on um because when I brought it up to his sister the reaction I got was not normal it was almost like a shit like she's she's you know clocked it or something um so like I said he started like just displaying very odd behavior um and like very scary behavior I remember like he was watching the um the oj case that was like a series on netflix and he would just like hover over the the bed where i was sleeping and say like oh this is the most amazing show like you need to watch it with me like with you know just like a very weird look in his in his eyes and i'd be like okay and i'd be texting my friends being like he's being really odd and they were like okay just like have this code if you need us to call the police or something but that behavior started heightening and getting weirder and weirder where I would have to like record him secretly to just be like did that happen or am I going crazy and like I went and obviously you know like I showed one of my cousins that I could confide at the time and he said you need to get out of there because every day you're showing me something and then you you justify it like he's royally royally fucking with you and um it got to a point where then these games became so weird that when he the day that he threatened physical abuse, I like defused the situation played into his game.
35:20But I that day thought I need an out from here because I will die in this house if I stay with him. I'm obviously like now I'm good again, but I'm very kind of outgoing and I'm quite extroverted. I was losing myself every single day. Like I started to watch a TED talk about, you know, depression and like suicide. And I was like, what is going on with me? Until one day I googled, like why do I feel this way this is what my husband said and all these pages came up about 10 signs you're being emotionally abused and I was like emotional abuse what is that I thought abuse is like bam you know like sexual something like that but I didn't realize it could be just the way that somebody manipulates their words or gaslights you or stonewalls you or breadcrumbs you all of these things were new to me and I just went through the checklist and I went holy shit like tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.
36:10He does all of those things. No wonder I feel like this. And so, yeah, that's the day I decided I need to leave. And I did one day and never look back. Yeah. And escaping a narcissist, which is, you've just described a narc to an absolute T with the gaslighting and confusion and control and odd behaviour. He adds you in that hamster wheel, no doubt, of make up, break up, put you down, build you back up when he's getting back and your good books. Does that sound familiar? Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The, you know, the please begging, like big, fancy restaurants, the entire place booked out just for us.
36:47Like, I'll change. I'll never do that again. I'm sorry. Boom, just to get me back in the cycle repeats. So went through those a couple of times. And that's when, as I said, like, I was, I was telling my cousin who was actually here in London at the time, and I kept sending him what was happening. And he went, you like, enough is enough. You need to see what's happening here. if you don't do something, I'm going to I'm going to literally get on a plane and bring you back to London. And that's what I thought, you know what, I am being really fucked with like, this is bad. And I need to, but then something inside me just woke up, Liam, like I was like, when I read the 10 signs, and I got some validation, not just from my cousin, because he was the only one I could turn to, as I said, in my family, divorce had never happened.
37:27In that sense, I'm the eldest child. So again, I thought, Oh, you know what, like, this was a marriage kind of of my doing. Yes, they told me to get married, but like, it wasn't, they didn't bring him home. I said, I'll marry this guy then. So I thought, you know, I have to just stick it out. And when my cousin made it seem like, no, you don't need to do that. I've got your back. And then seeing those, you know, the validation even online from forums of women who had been like, they were saying things like, I should have left 10 years ago. I got sucked back in. And I just thought that cannot be me.
37:57I am not going to waste years of my life to this man. There's no way. So to flee your husband, did you have to flee the country? Yes, I did. And I didn't think that would be a part of it. To be honest, I wish I had a great job at the time. I moved back to where my parents were. I found an amazing job. Everything was going so well. And I think that's when he decided to strike again, obviously, because he's lost the grip of me within the house and in his control. He lost his supply. Exactly. Yeah, I'd cut off his supply. I was somewhere else where he didn't have access to me. So he goes and hires this extremely nefarious lawyer who taps into something absolutely unheard of, even by my Arab friends who are from various parts of the Arab world in countries where they still have like hardcore Sharia like Egypt and, you know, Jordan and these other countries.
38:45This lawyer bought this ancient Sharia law called Ta 'az Aujia, which relates to the discipline of the wife on me, where the police were calling me and saying, am I going to voluntarily go back to his house myself or should they come and arrest me and take me back? And if I want to go anywhere, I cannot leave without his permission. Wow. So, I mean, the worst combination is a Muslim narcissist. Yeah. With the might of Sharia behind him and a whole bunch of men who are like, you know, got this grandiose complex of they've got divine law in their hands to use against a woman. Fucking hell. Because I mean, over in the West, if you have a narcissist, yeah, it really hurts to try and separate because you're addicted to them and it will take a long, long time to recover.
39:28But you have still got the free will to go, you know what? Fuck this. I'm out. Whereas over there, not quite the same. No. In fact, everything is telling you, you are going to go down. It's either you come willingly or we're going to force you there. So again, I was trying to be clever about it. And in Islam, I either belong to my husband or my dad, right? I'm never myself because They don't have any agency. So I thought, right, let me play to Islam's laws. And right now I've left him. So I belong to my dad again. It's called a mehram in Arabic, which is like your male guardian. So the police would come knocking on my door sometimes in the middle of the night.
40:07And I said, my dad was traveling for business. But I said, you cannot come into my house and you cannot take me to a police station with four male officers. You need a woman present. That's the law in Dubai. you have to have a woman officer president if they want to take me in their car to the station and also if my father's not in the house how dare you take a woman without her male guardian and so I played on that for a little bit but every single night the harassment from the police would like keep coming then he would my ex-husband would stalk me at work so like the world cup was on as well and I went to watch the England match with a few of my colleagues and he just showed up out of nowhere and just sat behind and was staring at me.
40:48So my colleagues had to like just discreetly tell me that he was there and escort me out that building. Every single day, Liam just existing in my own like villa became an issue. Like I'd have to get snuck out the back into an Uber because I couldn't drive to work. It was too dangerous and life just became hell. Like I got, I actually got PTSD from constantly like being on edge of watching, watching my window, opening the curtain, back to London for a holiday, my neighbours told me that he had sent somebody to walk up and down outside my villa and just stare at my room. So yeah, eventually the police asked me to hand over my passport.
41:29And that's when all the Brit stories of Dubai came rushing back into my head, all the ones I'd heard even while living in Dubai, that the one thing you've got that guarantees your freedom is your British passport. You can get the hell out of there before they block you up. So the day that they asked me for my passport, I was actually so defeated and so drained that I was actually on my way to go there. But at the last minute, I saw my lawyer running out and saying, stop, because they are charging you with so many different things that they're not going to drop this. They're not going to let you go because my ex-husband was bribing the police as well.
42:04His family were camping outside these police stations, giving them gifts. And then I called this British emergency number for help. and the man said, he literally saved my life. He said, do not give your passport. Are you in the car? Have you stepped inside the station yet? I said, I'm right outside. It's like 200 yards away. And he said, drive to the airport right now. Just come back. And I did. Thankfully, I did because honestly, nothing was worth getting locked up in Al-Basha police station in the UAE and having your life depend on them. You fell in love at first, Crunch. And now the crispy chicken crunch wrap slider is back at Taco Bell.
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43:18Oysters, everybody! Has it happened? There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to laugh. I mean, I'm glad I asked the question now because that was a powerful recollection of the whole thing. Wow, that'll blow some people's minds. And there'll be also there'll be people that can, it will sound very familiar. It will sound very familiar to some people because a lot of people don't even realize they're in these situations when they are because of the gaslighting.
43:52So was that also what inspired you to leave Islam completely? Yes. I mean, at the time, I thought this is just men on a power trip. You know, obviously, this has got nothing to do with Sharia. This is just like he's paid off some man who's thought, yeah, let's get this woman. You know, let's lock her up because that's what you want. And let's teach her a lesson kind of thing. But when I got back here and I kind of dealt with the PTSD and I had some time to recuperate and just kind of think about what happened to me, I thought, hold on a second. They justified this using Sharia. I studied, dabbled in Islamic law a little bit.
44:28I call myself a Muslim. Let me see if God, because I knew Sharia is divine law. It's Islamic law come straight out of the Quran. It's not even like man-made. It's actually God's words turned into the law that is infallible and it's timeless. So I thought, how can that law want that for me or do that to me? And obviously I'm back in the UK, so there's no restrictions on the internet like there are in the UAE. You can't even search anything about Islam that could be contrarian. So for the first time in my life, I actually, as a grown woman, was like, let me see what Sharia law says about women. and not just that let me see what the Quran says about women because they've got Sharia from the Quran so I went straight and I read I was like screw the Arabic let me read it in English word for word and what I read I was absolutely disgusted like a Quran 424 that whole verse the verse of women Surah Nisa says like men are in charge of women because they are a degree above them and then obviously it gives you the right to discipline your wife in that verse but the law All that was put on me comes straight out of that verse because it says, if you fear disobedience from your wife, you can admonish her, separate your bed and then beat her.
45:43So disobedience can be construed as anything, Liam. Like you could say, do you want to go for dinner tonight? Say no, disobedience. You know, I want a divorce. Hardcore disobedience. Yeah. Who defines what disobedience is? Yeah. The person you're defying. Yeah. That's dangerous. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, so you're now an apostate. Yes, I'm proud. And yeah, you're a proud apostate. What kind of backlash have you received? And was you in danger? Are you in danger? Will you be in danger? Will I? I'm not sure. I'm hoping to stay safe, I have thus far. Touch what you do, stay safe, by the way. I'm not tempting fate.
46:23I'm just curious. No, for sure. And I know I'm very aware and acutely aware of, you know, the changing threat always. It's like, you know, there's some parts of London I would never touch. There's some parts of the UK I would never, you know, go to just for my own safety. But it takes one, it takes one, you know, nutter to kind of be a little bit inspired that day to do something to you. But essentially, yeah, to answer your question, becoming an apostate, like leaving Islam is one thing. and then making a whole new life around it and dealing with the family backlash and losing a bunch of friends and finding a new identity and then existing within the climate that the UK is right now, even politically, even, you know, keeping your job, even all these things.
47:10It's like everything is rigged against you is what it feels like anyway. So yeah, to begin with, I got a lot of the probably the standard hate that a lot of ex-Muslims or apostates get where as a woman they were a bit different because they're very sexually charged threats it's more like you know rape threats it's more threats about I will make you my second third wife I'll bring you back to Islam that's what my DMs used to be filled with. From Muslim men? From Muslim men yeah obviously they just try and slut shame you you left Islam to all the boring it's so boring but like you left Islam to drink and wear mini skirts and, you know, hang out with white men, all this kind of stuff.
47:49So once you ignore that noise and that just kind of gets into the background, I don't even need to interact with Muslims. I don't sit there. Obviously, we talked about my debates, but other than that, just for a few kind of prominent debates, I don't really, you know, I've come to my conclusion. Now I'm on a different path is to educate other people about what I think they need to know about Islam and tie it into what's happening here on a daily basis kind of thing. But, yeah, I just block it out. How does a Muslim debate an ex-Muslim? Because you surely know Islam as well as they do, and you also know the chessboard, and you must have learned the moves that they're probably going to take and make, and you'll pre-empt that with your facts.
48:34If you've read the Koran front to back in English, I'm just trying to think how they can get the better of you. How do they do that? How do they even attempt to convince you that Islam is great and you've imagined the whole thing? Sounds a bit like being in the gaslighting room. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that's why I think it's also so, you know, you see it so clearly, like there's a lot of muddying the waters. And that's what they try and do. So they try and, A, they gaslight you. They're completely mixing things and they're relying on certain things which, you know, you start to pick up. They always go back to, oh, context or that context matters.
49:08and you know it's it's the same apologist arguments and i would actually have to thank a lot of the christian scholars and preachers because they've dealt with these apologetics of islam for the last 10 20 years you know their arguments haven't changed so they're relying on that and they you know it becomes a case of they're just counting on the muslim audience to believe what they say and i i was reading about this yesterday and i'm thinking why are there so many muslims out there who just don't read the Quran like I did and understand the fact that let me just trust my eyes and like realize that that's wrong.
49:45But interestingly, because the Quran is, it's organized in a way that's kind of not chronological and not in order of the revelations that Muhammad got. The Quran is put together from like, except for the first verse, which is, you know, kind of medium sized verse, it goes from the longest verses to the shortest. And so a lot of Muslims, not talking about the Islamic apologists that I debate, but a lot of like, you know, your Muslim friends around will say like, there's no compulsion in religion. Or, you know, if you kill one person, it's akin to killing all of humankind. And they take all these nice bits out of the Quran.
50:20But what they don't understand is that there's a doctrine of abrogation in Islam, which means that all those fluffy, nice verses have been overridden by the violent verses. because those were the verses that were revealed when Muhammad was in Mecca, when he barely had anyone on his side and it was in his interest to be nice and peace-loving and rainbow and unicorns. When he did the migration to Medina, the Hijra, it goes, kill all the disbelievers, you know, make them pay the jizya and be humbled. They're the worst of creatures. It all changes. So, I mean, bless them because maybe it's ignorance or whatever.
50:56But if you just understand that doctrine in Islam and you understand the way that the Quran was revealed, cherry picking one or two peaceful verses doesn't make it any better because that's all overridden. And Islamic scholars know that. And that's why I find it extremely disturbing when I do debate Islamic scholars. And they use those verses and they're just saying it over and over again to the public as if that's it. But no, it's not because they're hiding, they're holding so much back. This is a severe learning curve for me, finding out, because you think you know enough and then you realise, There's, I've probably not even scratched the surface, there's so much more to it.
51:33And hearing it from you, and especially the confusion and the complications and the sort of muddled verses in the Quran, that's very easy to confuse people. And then it's very easy for somebody that really knows it to trick you into saying, no, it actually means that. And that's what another thing I find when people are defending the scripture, they'll tell you that you've misinterpreted it. Oh, yeah. That's a favourite one. That and you need to understand Arabic because in the Arabic, it means something very different. And, you know, there's no there's no equivalent for it in English. So you'll never understand the true concept behind this.
52:11That's another one. So being apostate in the UK, is there support groups for apostates? Not as many as I'd like. No, not at all. But there are some, which makes me then ask the question, why would there need to be a support group for somebody that wants to leave an idea? Exactly. Yeah, very good point. Because it comes with more than just leaving, right? There's a huge kind of bounty on your head at the same time. So yeah, I mean, you know, one of the first, when I left Islam, one of the first kind of reasons that I felt strong enough to talk about it in that moment actually was, I was thinking, shall I go public with this?
52:51Shall I not go public? Should I tell my story? Is it worth it? You know, will people benefit from this? A little bit is cathartic as well, but there was an organization called the Council. So obviously, I'm sure you've heard of the Council of Muslims of Britain. So this was called the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain. And if you go on their website, there's thousands of testimonials of people who have left Islam across the country. And I remember my eyes just lit up when I saw that because I went, wow, there's so many of us. But obviously, when they would do events, initially, I'd go to a couple of their events.
53:25I mean, it is like some secret society meeting where, you know, until the last minute, the location is not disclosed just because of safety reasons. And I remember the first when I was asked to give a talk at one of those events, I honestly, even my mom was so nervous for me. She was like, can I come, even though she's still Muslim, can I come just so I know nothing happens to you? And I was, you know, even going to these kind of, and I think that was the first thing I said in my speech there that I can't believe, I think it was about a couple of years ago, in this year in London, in the middle of London, we're having to sit here in hiding because of this perceived threat that none of us feel safe enough to even, you know, advertise this anywhere.
54:06Everyone is kind of, you know, taking a double look at each other. No one's really sure. It's like tension in the air until the door is locked. and then you can finally breathe and say your piece. But I'm like, what is going on? This is meant to be the free world. Islam is fierce. That's the thing. Christianity is so watered down, forgotten about. And I like it being forgiving, don't get me wrong. But you can see how an idea like Islam can appeal to a lot of lost people that need some kind of structure or a big brother to look up to because it's sort of unforgiving. doesn't bend and it just keeps moving forward it sort of just bulldozes its way through anything that stands in front of it yeah absolutely and I'm not encouraging people to join Islam but I'm just thinking I can see how Great Britain has become the way it's become we got too soft accepting forgiving and inviting and a very unreasonable idea has crept in with the power of recruitment as well.
55:09Okay, you can join us, you can join us, you're part of a team now, a strong team, a solid team. Okay, women conform when you're part of our gang. And every man wants a lovely woman that conforms to a certain extent. I believe in gender roles, not gender dictatorship, don't get me wrong. And I can just see how they're going to tap into a lot of young men's minds that are a bit lost. And we've now got big influencers that are promoting Islam, and they never speak overly positively about women. It is kind of they belong to you. That's the rules. Yeah, it's the perfect system. If you're looking for something kind of rigid, structured, like you said, kind of like, you know, the tough guy image.
55:51It's the alpha religion. It's the alpha religion, yeah. You've got access to four women you can marry. You've got plenty that you don't even have to marry that you can mess around with, have your way with, and, you know, not to be too crude. And also, as you said, like, Islam respects strength. So a lot of these, you know, alpha men or like men that like to call themselves alphas turn to Islam because they actually say verbatim, they say Christianity is too soft. They don't fight for their values enough. Like in Islam, you know, it's like a warrior religion. You don't see them ever like bending the knee when it comes to their values and this and that.
56:26So, you know, you've got the likes of Andrew Tate, Mohammed Hijab, those kind of men who, and Mohammed Hijab says these things like you go to certain parts of the UK and he'll be like, we've got Muslim gangsters in place to, you know, enforce whatever it is they want to enforce there. And, you know, the kind of no-go zones that we talk about. But Islam, I will say this, Islam respects that kind of defiance and that kind of strong-willed nature. if you don't stand up to Islam like that it will eat you because you've got to fight fire with fire absolutely yeah they actually don't respect kind of this whole forgiveness and oh you know like we'll let you have your way no no no no Islam's like we we respect people who actually stand up for their values I won't submit to anything I don't believe in I don't care how ferocious it is I'm going to stand my ground and a lot more people seem to be doing that in the UK now I think There's a bit of a surge in Christianity, and I'm hoping that, you know, keeping their moral fibre intact, they stand tall and say, we no longer stand for this.
57:27We don't need Sharia law. We don't need Islamists. We don't need the nonsense. We don't need the victimhood that I see within Islam as well. When you react to them, again, it's like a narcissistic, you know, they create a storm and then mown when it rains. Yeah, exactly. Touche. Yeah, I see that within Islam. And I don't want to appear to keep slamming Islam. But the more and more Islam I see in the UK, and no one challenging it, it makes me want to challenge it more. But I also want to find out more about it, which is why I'm so delighted that you've come here, especially as a female, because I think the females within Islam really do get the short straw.
58:09Absolutely, they do. I have another theory on that as well. But I mean, it is the perfect religion if you want to be like, you know, this kind of, I mean, believing in gender roles and all of that is fine. But these men who are genuinely like predators or misogynistic and these kind of things, why do they all turn to Islam? You know, there's a reason that this is the religion that calls to them and they find their perfect way of life within this religion. And I do have a theory that because Islam is submission and they, you know, they are such a slave of Allah in that sense, they overcompensate with this crazy alphaness and this kind of, you know, I've got multiple women and my women are covered and they only speak when they're spoken to kind of vibe.
58:49Like we've got Ali Dawah, who's I don't know if it's a parody or not, and I'm really hoping it's a parody because otherwise it's absolutely deplorable that that's happening in England. But he's got a woman or a man. You don't know what's under the burqa. He's got somebody in a burqa who only who he presents as his wife speaking with a whiteboard back to him because. And I mean, it's not even far fetched to think this because in Afghanistan, in a pure Islamic theocracy like under the Taliban, who promised things would be better. women can't laugh out loud there and they can't sing and they can't talk out loud because their voice is temptation and Ali Dawah here has got a woman or man under her burger talking back to him with a whiteboard just writing responses and he presents that as his wife that's outrageous I know you you reminded me of a video that I've seen on repeat a number of times every time I can't believe my eyes it looks like it's somewhere in the desert Saudi Arabia somewhere and there's a room full of people and there's a man, Muslim man, you can tell that he's drunk and he's singing.
59:53You may have seen this. I hope you have if it rings a bell. But if not, this is what happens. Room full of people, men and women. It's obviously an Islamic family. The man is having a whale of a time. He's leaning back. He's singing. He's got some friends there. And then what I can only assume was his wife. It's a female. She's wearing the burqa. She starts joining in singing with him. He gets up, he beats the daylights out of her. It's on camera. It's full of people. So he was audacious enough to beat this female up for joining him singing. And it makes sense what you've now said, because never before have I heard that joining a man singing is what, haram?
1:00:38Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. I actually haven't seen that video, thankfully, because I hate just sometimes scrolling past and seeing that kind of horror on my screen. But I've seen so many videos to that effect. Like, you know, that famous meme, not meme, a picture, but it's turned into a meme. A man in his shorts swimming in the sea with his son and the woman just draped there all in black, like in, you know, over 40 degrees centigrade heat in the Middle East somewhere. And the same thing where a man enjoying an ice cream and the woman's there lifting the flap up to keep eating her food, like degrading things like that.
1:01:12I've seen that. And this is the moment where the provocative leftist will jump in the comments on YouTube and say, well, there's domestic violence within Christianity, within Britain, within the white community, whatever. It'll be the what about this? So just to please them, we have more than enough domestic violence within our Christian, atheist, white British community than we care for. and just to put it on record, if I was aware that there was a man in my community beating on his wife or girlfriend because she was joining in with him singing and I got wind of it, I would jaw him. Yeah. And for those that aren't familiar with that phrase, I would physically attack him if that was done in front of me and it would stop there and then.
1:02:06That's somebody in my own community because people love to do that. You're having a sensible conversation. What about, it's like, yeah, we're not talking about that. The fact that we're talking about one group of people doesn't mean that we're pretending it doesn't happen within other groups of people. So it's important to do that now because we know that there's so many mentally unhinged leftists out there that just want to argue for the sake of arguing. So there you go. Save your comment for somebody that gives a shit. We're trying to make sense of what's going on in the UK within a religion used to be a part of.
1:02:35And we want people to be safe again, predominantly women and children, because they're the first ones in the line of fire. Absolutely. I'm glad you said that as well because, yeah, we should anticipate that at any point. But just to take that one step further as well, as you said, domestic violence exists in every culture that I've seen actually work in the field. I've seen it, you know, it doesn't look at race or colour or anything like that. But to bring back what I said earlier, it is actually there in the Quran as a prescription to do. So it also does have a religion in this case. In the case that you were describing, it definitely has a religion, and that religion is Islam.
1:03:16Has Islam got an agenda on the whole? Is there a bigger plan? Obviously, when I was a Muslim, I thought this was all a conspiracy like this. You know, Islam is just here to exist. It's not, there's nothing malicious. There's nothing else happening under. But the more I looked into Islam when I was on my way out towards leaving it, I realized it's not just a religion. And that's the obviously I'm sure you've heard many people say this now, but it is literally an expansionist political ideology. So when we have all these problems that we're talking about in society that relate to Islam, why is that?
1:03:50It's not just we don't have these problems with the Hindu community, per se. We don't have it with the Sikh community, per se, with none of these other religions opposing the same problems. They're not trying to kind of infiltrate in a way where they're pushing their agendas and they're trying to censor our speech with like stupid laws like the Islamophobia law, for example, the Islamophobia bill. Sorry, Islam is always encroaching. And it's because within the scriptures itself, it's never just OK existing as is. From Muhammad's time onwards, there was always an agenda from his time onwards to turn the whole world into, well, as you said earlier, submission to submit to Allah.
1:04:30No other God, just Allah. Until that day happens, it is every single Muslim man's duty, and women in their own ways, but Muslim men's duty to do something to work towards that. So most Muslim men who are living a normal life, not enacting this, having a drink, going to the casino, doing whatever, cultural Muslims I like to call them, they're okay. But the large portion of them that are the terrorists are just enacting what Muhammad's final call was, is to keep going, keep spreading. And obviously that was jihad, which is like, you know, using the military and using force and using sexual violence, all those horrible things normally to expand Islam, which we saw it colonized a lot of the world as well.
1:05:13Got to the frontier of Europe, made its way into some of Europe before the pushback. But now what we're seeing in Britain is even more nefarious because it's not fought like that anymore. Now the agenda to infiltrate and jihad has now turned to, if you look at organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood, if you look at money spiraling into this country from Qatar, if you look at the Saudi Wahhabism that has been exported to our mosques, and it's just all around the country infiltrated into the university campuses, into institutions. you've got an organization like MEND actually which I'm going to do a video on because they are very scary in terms of what they've been doing in the UK and it's kind of gone unchecked how how much progress they've made but MEND stands for Muslim Engagement and Development it's what they call themselves they're a grassroots civic kind of body that promote you know Muslim relations within the community they encourage Muslims to take up positions in local councils in public positions.
1:06:16They monitor everything that gets put out in the media in case it happens to be Islamophobic, in case it's painting Muslims in a bad light. They are the ones who go around to various schools and set up Islamophobic awareness programs. So they discourage conversations on the grooming rape gangs because they deem that to be Islamophobic. They are pushing an agenda to make Prevent change its mission and from focusing so much on Islam to more far-right conspiracies. So now you see actual trainings that you're given in workplaces when you do a Prevent training. It's gone to like not even 50-50. It's like 60-40 about the far-right versus Islam.
1:06:56Whereas who are the biggest threat to the UK? As you mentioned, who are on the extremist watch lists? It's not really far-right activists or thugs, as they like to say. It's Islamic terrorists. So this organization, MEND, is extremely anti-Semitic and they've got very like extremist Islamic sympathizers who lead their top positions. They go into universities, they go into your kids' schools and they're pushing these agendas, which literally they've glorified terrorism in the past. But taxpayers, like what things that we pay for every day, the way that their agenda has slipped in to change our general lingo.
1:07:35there was a case of this lady. She's of Pakistani heritage, but she was in Scotland. And just recently, I think the Free Speech Union covered her case that went to the employment tribunal, and thankfully it was dismissed. But Liam, can you imagine? She basically overheard in the staff room two ladies discussing, like one of them was asking for an audiobook recommendation. And the lady suggested the Salman Rushdie Satanic Versus book that she had downloaded, but hadn't listened to yet based on his recent knife stabbing. This Muslim lady was just hearing it in the back and said, oh, that's Islamophobic for you to say that.
1:08:11This is offensive to Islam. The two ladies stopped right there. This woman is part of MEND and she bought this issue along with a hundred other lists of complaints saying that her white colleagues would say good morning in a weird tone. Another white colleague didn't tell her what spilled when her food spilled over in the microwave. these were literally part of her thing to to say this whole school has an atmosphere of islamophobia she is directly linked to mend top government officials including i think michael gove even when he was um a uh cabinet secretary said that we need to be very mindful of mend and the islamist agenda that they are pushing also got silenced out of fear of being called islamophobic nobody listened fell on deaf ears they have infiltrated so many of our public bodies they're going around to schools in the UK and they're pushing these programs, when this is combined with the Labour Party's Islamophobia working bill that they want to pass, these two things will mean that, let's say, MEND comes into your school to give a talk and you oppose it, you're gone.
1:09:17Because the Islamophobia bill will already silence you. And they are literally parroting the narratives of the Muslim Brotherhood. So you've got people, honestly, ministers from the the UAE trying to give the UK a wake-up call and say, stop conceding ground to organisations like the Muslim Brotherhood, even charities like Islamic Relief. They're plastered all over the TFL, the tube networks in London. They're fundraising. I wonder why. Exactly. And their funding channels are so questionable. But yeah, the rot runs very deep is how I'll end this. Yeah, the rot does run very deep. And I think more people need to put Sadiq Khan under the microscope and keep the microscope there for quite some time.
1:10:02And what you've just said there has really rung alarm bells. And if people aren't going to take notice of Islam from an ex-Muslim, then who are they going to take notice of it of? So, yeah, I encourage people to maybe watch this back once or twice or rewind a few bits and engage in the comments and have a conversation. And if anyone's watching this that, you know, wants to leave Islam or you feel like you've been a victim of Islam, I think some Muslims are victims of Islam. I've said this for years. You know, you can always create an account where you haven't got your face on there and just have a chat in the comments amongst people.
1:10:34And here's a question that hopefully will make you glow. What's life been like since leaving Islam? You fell in love at First Crunch. And now the crispy chicken crunch wrap slider is back at Taco Bell. But with a twist, it's crispy all-white meat chicken nuggets inside a slider-sized crunch wrap. But now you can enjoy them with the kick of Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch. Or try the tortilla chip-coated nuggets on their own. They're waiting for you. The Crispy Chicken Crunchwrap Slider, a brand new classic, is back. Only at Taco Bell. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller.
1:11:11Slap me. Let's draw something loose. Ay, yes! I like that. The Certified Fresh Series returns. Your boss, you always like this? Or is this just an act, oh no, this is mad? Oysters, everybody! Has it happened? There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to live. On a personal level, amazing. Absolutely amazing. I mean, it's the sweet taste of freedom. you know like mental emancipation physical emancipation you're not this walking body of shame you're not temptation in that way you're not you're not going to get roasted in hell for you know befriending a gay person so yeah on a personal level it's been more liberating than ever I can live my life I'm in the driving seat I don't not restricted by any of those weird archaic dictates that Sharia ordains for you not even like the societal pressure of the community because I've said sorry I'm out of here I'm not part of what you think how you think you can't police me anymore um on a way of managing relations interpersonal relationships of loved ones a bit trickier because obviously you're I mean I've charted into territory that they're not familiar with not necessarily entirely happy with per se and also extremely worried about my what I say publicly as well in that sense.
1:12:36So for safety reasons. But yeah, it's just coming to a compromise where you stand your ground and you make people aware that this is who I am now and this is the decision I've made. So you need to meet me halfway and we need to coexist otherwise. Sayonara kind of thing. And what's your main driving force for speaking out? Because we've seen what happened to people like Salman Rushdie and other people that have had fat was put on them. You know, people must be aware by now that speaking out against Islam, can be very dangerous. So we've got to look at Charlie Hebdo, other people that have lambasted or criticised Islam.
1:13:10Sometimes it ends really bad. What drives you? What makes you so fearless? Why are you doing this? Oh, I don't know if I'm fearless per se. I do sometimes have the odd thought at night that like, oh my God, will my life go to this stupid cult that got out of hand? Will I end up in the hellfire? No, never that. That is never a worry of mine. And it's more just like, oh, will I come across that nutter that day? But I think it's just knowing how bad something is and knowing that actually we talk about all these problems all day that are happening in society. I know there's many other problems besides Islam, but majority of the Islamic countries, the problems that they have are not down to culture, are not down to this or economy.
1:13:55It's literally the core of their, you know, everything they live. and it's Islam, if that doctrine is so bad, it's like reading, you know, like Mein Kampf and saying, let's carry on with life. No, no, no. Let's discuss how bad that is. Like, that's just once you because I sleep very peacefully at night, Liam, because I can separate that and say, that's an Islam problem. That's an Islam problem. If you get rid of that, so much will fix itself. You'll have a chance at life. You'll have a chance at stabilizing your country, we'll have a chance at, you know, integrating, we'll have a chance at living to your potential.
1:14:31So many things come back to Islam holding people back. And I just think if somebody sees me, another woman out there, you know, questioning, even a man out there questioning, but more and more of us in our numbers grow bold enough to speak out against this religion. And we are a power in numbers now. We're growing. And obviously in the Middle East, you don't have the numbers shown to you because it's the Middle East. But if we were to, we'd see a lot of young people turning away from Islam the more they learn about it. So I just think, yeah, I think it's honestly a personal moral duty of mine to speak out.
1:15:04Yeah, the moral duty, I feel compelled to speak out about certain things as my moral duty, certainly as a father as well. Got a very lovely message from my son earlier saying that he was proud to be my son because he sees the things that I do. Nearly made me cry. Oh, that's lovely. Yeah, it was nice. And it just sort of makes it all worthwhile. It's like, you know what, I don't care what kind of backlash I get, what trouble I get into. If I'm making him proud, I'm on the right track. That's my purpose. Not really a great deal to live for other than make sure the future generations are going to live a fulfilled, safe life.
1:15:35What message would you say? In fact, what words would you say to our politicians? If Keir Starmer was sat in front of you now, what would you say to him? I mean, oh, I don't really want to talk to him. But if I had to, I would say to the politicians that I think actually have the best interests of the country at heart, I would say to them that, you know, whether they agree with them or not, look to some of our greatest politicians of the past. Like they have had things to say and they were on the right track. I did a video about a month ago on the Islam that Churchill saw and that he wrote about as like a military commander and as a war correspondent.
1:16:13And he saw Islam in its rawest form. similar things where I grew up thinking, you know, Enoch Powell was a far right thug with his rivers of blood speech. It's all coming to fruition. So I would honestly tell them to look and look and learn from the past, listen to voices of the past who actually had the best interests of, you know, the British people at heart and take heed in their words, because the way that we're going at the moment, it's not working. Before I ask you the final question, where can people find you? What platforms? And I'll put all your links in the description as well. You can find me on YouTube with my full name, Nouria Khan, or as Holy Humanist.
1:16:56And also on X, I think it's at Nouria 21 or at Nouria K21. But yeah, those are the two main ones for activism related stuff. Otherwise, I'm on Instagram, but just putting pictures of pretty things and nice wine, really. Food, wine and sunsets. That's it. That's the palate cleanser. Yes. That's the separation of, ah, and switch off. Absolutely. So my final question to you would be, what message would you give to any woman out there desperate to flee Islam? I would say that obviously first, please be careful. Your safety is everything. If you are unalived, then there's no point you having left Islam.
1:17:39But I would say that if that is how you feel, to trust your gut. Like you're not crazy. because when I first thought that, oh my God, is this all potentially a con? One of the biggest cons in history made by the man called Muhammad and people have been falling for it for generations. You know, in Islam, even when you die, you have to say like a word, like a sentence just so you can get to heaven as well to enshrine it. And I was thinking how many people have like, you know, from history have said this and thought they're going to Muhammad's heaven. But I would say to those women that please trust your trust your mind trust your own gut trust your mind and believe that these are stories and these can be stories you know it's not the ultimate truth but find yourself some people you can trust find yourself a local support network if there is any and when and as you can take steps to ensure that you're able to live the life that you truly want and I think one of the main things in order to do that especially for a lot of Muslim women who are not empowered to is because of financial independence.
1:18:47So I would say get financially independent as soon as you can and trust your mind. Don't go back to Islamic scholars and sheikhs and imams to get your answers. If you are dissatisfied with their answer, trust your mind. And I'd also like you all to trust your minds and like and subscribe to the channel because the bigger the platform, the better the guest and the more interesting conversations we can have that the mainstream would never even consider having or platforming in their wildest dreams. Like and subscribe. Give Nerea a follow. Good time for me to mention to my son that will be watching.
1:19:25That message meant the world to me earlier. Never forget I fucking love you. And I'm very grateful for you for coming on and sharing that with me. And I've got a feeling you'll be sat there again one day. And until then, good health and stay safe. Thanks, Liam. And you. Thank you, darling.
1:19:46And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Jar something loose. Ay, yes! I like that. The certified fresh series returns. You're a boss. You always like this? Or is this just an act? Oh, no. This is mad. Oysters, everybody! There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to laugh. So you're not worried about hosting the whole family for the holidays? Why would I be? Wayfair had everything I needed to get the house holiday ready.
1:20:22What if Mike brings his cheerful dogs? My tree has tons of five-star reviews telling me how sturdy it is. But what if everyone's plus one brings a plus one? We'll see how extendable this extendable table really is. And extra chairs are on the way. Okay. What if there's a blizzard and everyone has to sleep over? Ready to go with extra bedding and towels. From guest-ready essentials to holiday decor you can trust, Wayfair delivers.
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As a child in the UK, Islam was her life. Moving to Saudi Arabia and marrying opened her eyes, and she faced intense pressure and danger, until finally escaping back to the sanctuary of England.
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✅ About Liam Tuffs.The Dozen with Liam Tuffs is a no holds barred podcast channel, where True Crime, Celebrity, Politics, Current Affairs, Combat Sports & Comedy are amongst the topics discussed! I sit down with some of the most fascinating and controversial characters including ex-gangsters, comedians, bare knuckle fighters, boxers, celebrities, and politicians to bring you raw & unfiltered conversations.
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