Football Lads FIGHT Against Groomers: Together for the Children Unveiled

24:07The Isle of Wight, all the prisons there are now for sex cases. Are they all that now? Because you used to, I know Albany used to be, because you used to have Albany. Parkhurst wasn't. Parkhurst was like, you know, old school. and then you add Camp Hill, which is a sea cat. But I think most of the prisons they've built in the last decade or two, probably 70 % or 80 % are for paedophiles, just for those alone. And did prison change every time you went back? In terms of what was morally permissible, because all of a sudden you see the standards come down and what we would call old school people were fewer and further in between.

24:42And those people do resonate to each other. You know, I used to get a lot of people and ask me, you know, are my boys looking at doing a bit of bird? Have you got any advice? Yeah. And I used to say, yeah, don't be in a hurry to make friends. That's the first one. Because you do tend to find that the people when you get busy that come up talking to you are the ones you do not want to know. You know, they're trying to punch backy off you or they're no good or they're grass or whatever. And other people like, you know, myself and people I know, we'll sit back and yeah people do they're looking at you usually just come in we'll see about you know especially abroad I'll get to that in a bit but you know it's different and people make their own way but don't and the other one was don't try and be something that you're not because you get people it doesn't matter who you are there's always someone you know it's like football boys oh we never come second everyone's come second I don't care who you are or you haven't met the right person yet we're not all the toughest people in the world are we you know there's always someone around the corner that's going to give you a lesson and yeah so you know be yourself.

25:43And has the politics in prison changed over the course? Well of course especially the dispersal system I mean I spent a few years in Woodhill I didn't really do dispersals you know if you count Woodhill as a dispersal I mean generally people talk about Long Norton and Whitehall and you know those ones but you know in terms of you know the Muslim gang has run all those dispersals you know ask anybody is that's how it is that's the double cat a's the cat a's yeah all run by islamists so when you look i'm going back a few years because the last time i was in prison in england was 2011 i think i came out um but you know at that time when it was perhaps the only one you know like out of the main prisons it wasn't as bad as all the dispersals but did you have any battles in woodhill one thing i always like to remember is relative to religion is um you get there You know, people have rows and that.

26:36And there was a young lad from Dublin. And he had a row with one of the Muslim lads. And they're both young boys, same age, same sort of size. And anyway, nothing too bad. I've got, you know, handbags really. And in the gym recess, after the gym, there's now seven or eight Muslim lads that want to do this. This young lad from Dublin, because that does seem to happen a lot. And there was a guy in there with us. He was from Northern Ireland. from the other side of the fence, from the UDA side, good lad. And as this was sort of escalating, this guy, Freddie, pumps in and says, what are you doing?

27:19I was right, Freddie, he's a Catholic. Obviously, Freddie being a Protestant, they thought that would stop anything happening. I never get his. His mother's a Christian and so is mine and he'll have to go through me first. And of course, everyone else stood on with Freddie and then it's about eight a size and nothing happens. You know, if you're good, you know, it ends well. So after it's all, I went, where did you pull that one up from me? The crusades just hold us more in the world. Propel Fitness Water. With Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar and vitamins, Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self.

27:58What propels you? Propel with Gatorade electrolytes. This episode is brought to you by Palmolive. Family time isn't just the big moments. It's weeknight dinners. Sitting around the table, everyone talking all at once. So when the plates are empty and the sink is full, use Palmolive Ultra. Palmolive's most powerful formula removes up to 99.9 % of grease, leaving your dishes sparkling clean. And the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier, so you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at palmolive.com. What about the screws? How did you get on with them? Any problems?

28:36Yeah, I had a little bit of a... I was like public enemy number one in Woodhill for a couple of years. How come? I can't even really remember how it started, but I just sort of went to one with the Cuffners. It was like everything I wanted to do. So it just started. All of a sudden, it was like every single Cuffner, you know. And I actually started off... When I went to Woodhill, I started off a lower category and worked my way up. Most people worked their way down. Oh, fair play. So, yeah, all of a sudden, and it's like they didn't want to let me go. You know, I thought, you know, I'd be out of here before long, no.

29:05They just kept me there, and I don't know why they kept me there, because it just went on forever. And I mean, I had so many incidents, so I had one where, I can't remember what his name was, one of the top governors there, and he sort of thought he was going to sit me down in this room, like, we need to have a chat, you and me, I'm going to fucking do it. And he's pointing his finger at me, and I went, who are you fucking pointing at me? Because I'd fuck him, right? And he's going, all of a sudden, he went, who's here for you? and he's got a fucking picked up a chair smashed it over the table all of a sudden about 10 months he'd come running in like well they think they're jumping on me don't they they come running through the thing I'm sitting here like this I'm like what are you doing I'm quite funny I'm going what are you doing Mr whatever and they're all like oh because they're expecting me to have been smashing the chair up I'm like pull yourself a cover cover so I used to get in there and that a little bit I'm not going to lie but I don't know little games but then I had a I had a heart condition in there as well so I ended up in Milton King's hospital they shipped you out of Woodhill well that's where they take you so I had to have basically I kept sort of keeling over fucking hell how old were you then I'd already had three heart attacks when I was 38 so this is carried on so I had a heart condition and then obviously I I've killed over a couple of times they took me to hospital and then I was handcuffed to two screws they did they operated on me handcuffed screws at the time because i was smashing things up and i smashed their offices up in there like because they weren't giving me my medication and things so i walked into my mate's cell and he said justice in geocsy red and i was just telling i said it's a big i couldn't reach it a bear big lump from a cat ring way i said we got in this every rich and he said he ain't thought that metal bin i went out and i was pitching up he said just he just went straight out and crashed and I started I couldn't believe it come through actually it's that wire glass and I was just smashing and they were all lying down on the floor of the screws and with their hands over their heads like Smithy Smithy fuck off fuck off would you want to fuck with me because they wouldn't give me my what happened I was on this medication and it's called corticoid steroids and basically I didn't realise this but once they build you up on them your body gets that used to them that this is what I said I got given the medical bible thing by the doctor actually went to me like yeah he said I shouldn't really be showing you this and what it said I'll never forget it said sudden withdrawal from corticoid steroids causes adrenal suppression something or other or death so I'm now sitting there thinking he's trying to kill me so then you start thinking fuck you I had a paranoia kicked in well I had so many things where I started found me with them in Woodhill so you think they were trying to kill you put it like this I started, they started getting me, you have to go to the gym on your own and all this sort of shit.

31:58And that's, because they can use these things if you're not, you know, remedial gym, they call it what. Anyway, so then all of a sudden they put someone else with me. Oh, there's two of you doing remedial gym. So I get talking to this big lump and he's a big lump. He said, I don't know what, he's about six foot eight and he's a fucking bodybuilder. And he's helping me away, his name's Gary. I went, hello Gary, he's a ducker up north, northeast lad. and we're sitting there working out Gary and our bench press he's holding the bar up and all that for me supporting the bar and that anyway I thought what a lovely fella what a lovely fella Gary Vinter his name is I don't know if you've come across him yet the name rings a bell he don't stop doing people in prison he's killed loads of people now so they're putting me on the gym thing so I think at the time they think yeah go on see how you get on with him and we got on alright I think I've recently watched a documentary on it yeah it was you know Europe's Most Dangerous People and that sort of shit whatever it's called yeah Is he the one that used to work on the railways?

32:51Yeah, he killed someone in Middlesbrough, I think, didn't he? Killed him in the kiosk. Killed his co-worker or something, and then he killed his wife. Then he got let out, and then he killed his wife. Yeah, and he's done a few people in Brazil. I mean, don't get me wrong, some of the people he's done, I think, is it Roy Whitehead? I'm trying to remember that. Yes, he stabbed him in the eye. Yeah, and he's done a few, but I mean, he's done, you know, I think he just gets bored. Fuck me, so you've done weights with that geezer? Oh, yeah, that was my fucking gym. But, you know, I didn't know at the time, but I bet the whole fucking government, Yeah, lunatic.

33:21What have most of your convictions been for? The last time I was in England was firearms. I actually got bail because I had a pub in a place called Weford, Hertfordshire. And 70-armed police rated that because apparently I'm this, that, and the other. And my little boy was at school, came out of school, and I wasn't there to pick him up. and I got I was done for a firearm a handgun I put my wife in prison because the pub is in her name so I put her in prison with Rose West not the best letters I get when you're in one prison and your wife's in the other she's never been in a police station in her life bless her did she meet Rose West?

34:03that was her next door neighbour they put her in fucking Bondsfield in a double A prison next door at Rose West it's hardball they're going like at the time they're trying to get me to plead guilty to things to get you a fucking life for what you haven't fucking done so they're putting pressure on you from everywhere. Welcome to my world, yeah. Not that I want to veer off from your story, but what did your wife say about Rose West? She didn't know she was. I mean, I'm in prison, so you get a letter in England and you can write to each other in other countries. So I'm getting in prison. She's going, oh, I think, there's someone next to me.

34:29I think she's famous. Everyone seems to know her. And I'm asking, who's in there? Like, people I know, they go, Rose, fuck it, West. I went, oh. As you can write it back, you go, lovely lady, isn't I? Wow. But do you know what was nice? All the, you know, different people around different firms and things around Britain I used to know well and whatever you know they were all making phone calls and that's people because my little boy come out of school and I was at look after him they didn't think about it the old bill a neighbor of mine took my son in he was about six or seven at the time so just reminded you straight away yeah so they put me in Woodhill obviously you know you're time with you got Bronson and she's in with fucking rose west my boys come out and go home so at the time we talked to my family of genius I'm missing in Glasgow like you know so by the time she comes in yeah we made my neighbors from the pub took me boy in that's what we need community but yeah so we're all wrong with mind and then while I'm on my mind as my code I decode here as well and um they were well we got on the feeling of bugging myself to start with because I don't know if people remember back in the day, you'd sit in your motor and you'd be driving along with your mobile phone, just before the radio, just before your phone rang, the radio would go, and then your phone would ring.

35:49Do you remember? Yes. Like a radio signal. I'm an expert. And our cell's doing that. It was a telly. So I'm thinking, all right, you've bugged the cell. And then people were telling me, you know, when you go out, they're in there drilling and shit like that all the time. It's all crap. So at the time, you know, there was a few of us in, this is in Woodhill, it was like a sort of AK side, 1A or whatever they call it. So Dave Gunn and there's quite a lot of women. They come with 58 million models, you know, Paul Allen. I remember watching them do that to him before he come on the wing and the work screws, whatever you want to call them, in there drilling away and all this.

36:25I don't know him. I said, listen, mate, be careful. No, obviously, whatever you're saying. And then, yeah, the next thing was I was going, And my brief is sending me, you know, email things, what they're called in prison ones, saying about, I'll see you, it kept saying to me, I didn't tweet from a while, it kept saying, I'll see you in room 11 at 11am on Monday morning. Now in Woodhill, they've got, I don't know how many, about 40 legal suites. So I think, I'm in the same one every fucking time. Right? Okay, cool, I've tweeted in the end. He's trying to clue me up. I basically don't be talking in that room.

36:58Now listen. And then a little while after that, it came out. we went for bail and we put that up as a reason for bail so this is for firearms I've got bailed for firearms right because they were bugging my legal visits and I couldn't get a fair trial and they quote it's Woodhill Prison so at the time we quote what did they say we quote national security on this matter do you know the other person they were bugging at that time at the very same time Sadiq Khan so Sadiq Khan was visiting Woodhill Prison people forget this Sadiq Khan was a lawyer Sadiq Khan used to represent all Islamic extremists.

37:35Yeah. And they're bugging me and Sadiq Khan, which is quite ironic how things are now, if you like. But that's exactly what I said. We quote national security on this matter. Didn't deny it. And then there was a lawyer called Ramon Ravelli or something like that in Birmingham, and they were going after it, sort of thing, trying to get people bail on the back of whether their legal visits have been bugged. So, you know, how are you having a fair trial, by the way, if someone's listening to your defence? So I'm me talking to my lawyer. I had to write everything down. What was the actual charge? What did they want to get you done for?

38:07I was in possession of a firearm, which was a handgun. And I think there might be a bit of puff or something as well. Did they find any guns? Yeah, they found in a public area. So our pubs, we had rooms. We used to let out rooms and things like that. So I pleaded guilty to this further down the line. but yeah but we actually got bail I was out for seven eight months on that you know because I couldn't get a fair trial in there but the gun was yours yeah the gun was mine and what's it for I had a pub in the middle of nowhere the life I led Liam not gonna lie and people coming in the pub at night I mean I had a debt collecting firm so you know I was a target people go all those people they work for that fellow who's got the pub in the country mm-hmm so it's all right for them, they'd come out the hills and do whatever, and I'd be the constant you could find if you wanted to.

39:00Was there ammunition as well? Yeah, so, but it was, you know, self-protection mechanism, really, to be honest. Self-protection taken seriously. Yeah, life-altered. Let me go back to Woodhill, because there's a Myra Hindley conspiracy, and seeing as you were in there probably around the same time, so I don't know what, 2002, it was reported that Myra Hindley was dead. Don't quote me on the actual date, but the conspiracy is that the, And whoever it was pretended that Mara Hindley died and that she carried on living in Woodhill Jail. Have you heard anything similar? Well, yeah, funnily enough, when I was in Milton Keynes General, so I'm handcuffed to these two screws 24-7.

39:39They're like a little bit of a chain, you know, and they're in these armchairs either side of my bed. And you keep talking to them, you know, not all screws are, you know, as much as whatever people say. Some are all right, some aren't, whatever. and these couple of old boys I remember this fellow that I was talking to he was retiring and he was like one of them go to work go home sort of screws you know we weren't bothered about all the politics and shit and I said he was retiring he was moving to New Zealand and I said how lovely yeah talking to him and I said he works on the unit so he obviously got the prison within the prison I said what's the funniest thing you've seen working on a boy the most unusual thing you've seen working on the unit.

40:24And he said to me, Myra Hindley being in there the night before she was supposed to have died. The night before? Ah. If you look into that, as a result of that, a long while after that, I started looking into it. And there's a lot of things that's going to add up. Have a look at the coroner and who's since been disgraced. Some of these coroners, look at some of these things. I mean, have a look at the coroner, for example, with John Palmer, the guy from Tenerife, the Goldfinger, whatever you want to call him. Yeah. You know, the first coroner's report said it died to natural causes. The second one said there were six bullet holes in him.

40:56Think about that. Yeah. I mean, I second-guess everything now because we've been fed so many lies over the years and conspiracy turns out to be like absolute facts. If you go on to that, though, Liam, when I started looking into it, there's cases of a woman, a schoolteacher, primary schoolteacher, I think she was, who had a car crash with Maya Hindy since then, since she was out. She had a very amazing amount, eclectic group of visitors, let's call it that. They used to come and see her. She was in the prison up by Fetfeld, I think it is that way, Norfolk. And she used to get visits from the Bishop of Bury St.

41:30Evans, as it was in Suffolk, and nuns and things. And there was a rumour that she was living in a convent now. What would be the benefit of keeping Mara Hindley alive, or what would be the benefit of pretending she's dead? Well, first of all, which Home Secretary would want to be the one that had to release her? Now, she had a 30-year reg, so recommended life sentence for 30 years. Now in Europe now, once you get to 30 years, lifers get tariffs and that, and then they'll say, right, well, you're over your tariff and nowadays that goes to the European Court of Human Rights or whatever. So some are good and some bad, but they're concerned for a different reason.

42:08And then they start going, well, you've got to let this woman out. She's now 10 % over her tariff. I think back at that time she'd done something like 33 or 35 years or so. So she was well over a tariff. So in legal terms, you know, human rights things, you've got to let that woman out. And now which Home Secretary wants to be the one to admit that they've let her out? It's going to be public outcry. They're going to be unpopular. So if you look at those things, you know, I don't know this for a fact, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me from what I've seen and read. Oh, you think she's been released?

42:37Yeah. Oh, fuck me. That's what I think. This school tissue, I don't know how, because they cover all these things up now. Right. So when you get, well, what are they called? Search engine operatives, right? SEOs. So you pay these people to push your fingers to the front, like you've got your business, whatever. You get emails. We'll push you up the ladder so people see you first. You do that in reverse as well. So they pay people in India and they'll suppress, push you further and further down. So it's harder and harder for people to go through and Google things and find what you're talking about.

43:07But when I first come out, you could go through these things and see stories from a primary school teacher, a lady, who had a car crash with her. at night. And it was near there. It was near Bury St Edmund somewhere, which is where she was, you know, alleged to be. And it allegedly, this is her account, saying, oh, please don't tell anyone, please don't tell anyone. I knew it was my only looking at her. So the conspiracy is that they want you to believe Mara Hindley's dead because they released her back into the population. Yeah. And then where the search engine operative things are pushing things, look at Tony Blair.

43:41We put this in the film. Go on, come and get me, Tony, if I'm lying. Right? Tony Blair, before he was Prime Minister. Do you know about this film? He was arrested? No. What is a section in propriety? Clapham Common. He appeared in court, Tony Blair, our Prime Minister. What was Tony Blair nick for? Section in propriety of Clapham Common, doing whatever in toilets in Clapham Common. He appeared in court under his, what some people would call your common law name. So his real name is, well, his full name, not real name, is Anthony Charles Linton Blair, L-A-N-T-O-N. He appeared in court under the name Charles Linton.

44:14Now, you used to be able to read about this all over the internet. You try finding it now. That happened. We put this in the film. Come and see me, Tony, if online. You know, in the Football Escob for the Children film, we exposed three different prime ministers. These things have gone on for years, and these things get covered up. Ted Heath? Ted Heath, yeah. Well, we put that in there about him visiting children's homes. Obviously, the first and really famous one, Cyril Smith. I mean, we're not coming from anywhere here, because Cyril Smith, Liberal, Ted Heath, Conservative, Tony Blair Labour, so who knows parity in what we're talking about.

44:46All three of those people, terrible fucking people. Well, the first two. Sorry, the first two. I'll reassess that. So, Teddy from Led Zeppelin. I think there's something like a dozen different police forces have said if he was still alive, they would want to interview him. Like another Jimmy Savile. Yeah, Jimmy Savile. I mean, and Syl Smith. I mean, you'll see in the film what we're talking about with Syl Smith. I mean, he was allowed to get away with that for years. And do you know what? Sir David Steele, or Lord Steele, as he is now, who was leading the Liberal Party, has admitted that he knighted George Smith five years after knowing he was a paedophile.

45:20It's riddled, mate. I sit there now and look at all these people with the SIR, Sir This and Sir That. It's an abbreviation of something we don't know about because all these people sitting and getting knighted. You wonder why some people haven't taken it. Remember Michael Crawford? Yes. Frank Spencer. Yeah. Barnum, Phantom of the Opera, talented man. How come he hasn't got knighted? I don't know the answer to this, but I've always wondered because he has to be probably the most talented entertainer of the last 50 years. They'll chuck him out to anyone now. He can't have a night. I mean, come on, fuck off.

45:55That's another one. We're looking at all these things now. See your Prince Andrew thing. Every week or every day more or less, you pick up a newspaper and on the front page of that it's Prince Andrew there, it's Prince Andrew there. No disrespect to the young lady in America where that's concerned. And yeah, that must have been horrible for you, 17. I'm not listening that for one minute now. But while everyone's reading about that on the front page of The Sun or wherever it is every day, who's talking about the 9 ,000 cases of child abuse that have taken place under Sadiq Khan in London? What do you see on the telly or the papers?

46:32Is there anything about that? We don't see anything. So as far as I'm concerned, some of these things I think it uses as a smokescreen. There is a buffer to stop you looking beyond them or behind them and say, you know, what is actually happening with that? Because what is actually happening with that is to Decon. You know, here's a question for you if you're watching. You know, we watch all these people on his own council things. Oh, what do you mean by that? No, I'll tell you what we mean by that. Have you seen what he keeps doing? Where he sort of rebuffs the answer by answering with another question, you know what I mean?

47:02Propel Fitness Water. With Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar and vitamins, Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes. This episode is brought to you by Palmolive. Family time isn't just the big moments. It's weeknight dinners, sitting around the table, everyone talking all at once. So when the plates are empty and the sink is full, use Palmolive Ultra. Palmolive's most powerful formula removes up to 99.9 % of grease, leaving your dishes sparkling clean. And the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier.

47:40so you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at palmolive.com. Well, he deflects and then he goes around the houses and then he answers a completely different question. It's almost like he's interviewing himself. What do you mean by that, then? What do you mean by that? I'll tell you what we fucking mean by that. What's going on? It's narcissistic deflection is what he does all the time. And his disdain for women, which has been caught on camera on a number of occasions. I mean, he shouldn't be London Mayor. Take him back to five minutes ago. Why? So in Woodhill Prison, right, the powers that be, national security, deemed him to be, quote, unquote, a threat to national security.

48:20And yet that man's in charge of London now. Yeah, that's insane. Before I ask you about what happened in Geneva, what's your relationship with Ray Winston? Oh, you see the newspaper article. I could only find out little snippets of your life. So this is fascinating. There was not much that comes up here, so I'm quite glad of. there was a famous picture in The Sun some years ago I think it was The Sun myself took Ray Winston to visit a friend of his they sat next to each other in school him and Danny Jones at Garden Robbery but yeah couldn't remember where did you say in Belmarsh yeah how did that visit go well I couldn't get in to start with because I had ripped jeans I had a little rip in my jeans so it would have been funny for me to start with like yeah so then it was about it was early morning it's like eight o 'clock in the morning it's the earliest prison visit i've ever been on and obviously you know you have to put your names down who's visiting so i dare say they've seen right right walk out from it and uh so they obviously tipped off whoever but i i eight o 'clock in the morning i've got a stupid little ripped in my jeans like that like you know fashionable at the time i suppose and uh anyway they wouldn't have it they wouldn't let me in so now Ray's got a driver called Joe and I'd be man telling him man and uh so Joe's now driving me round with Willidge and he's driving we're driving around trying to find something open to put on his trousers I've stopped at a catering company you know like the chef's back in my dress yeah apparently I could get any of your turn up to Belmarsh and checkered trousers I was too fat to be a chef I think um and uh a garden said you know like the green over all shit but anyway 8 o 'clock as Georgia as the Romans, right?

50:03Whether it's course, I've got these, the worst post shorts, I've got, I don't know if you see the picture, you'll see one, I've got my belly, and it wasn't a good picture. But yeah, I would just say one thing, you know, when you see some of these people, like Ray, and a lot of these celebrities, and actors and things, over the years, the amount of times that they get put upon, including myself, I've asked several times, you know, someone that you know is dying, or the amount of things that they do for charity, wherever he's concerned you know they've always got time for people and when you see someone that still knocks around with all the people you went to school with yeah because you get a lot of these people they're sort of treading on people along the way and they're stepping stones and yeah I know him now and I know that man still knocks around with everyone you went to school with and that so yeah good man yeah Ray Winston's one of the real ones isn't he yeah proper man yeah good lad apart from West Ham obviously oh is he West Ham oh yeah whenever you get you get Christmas cards I think so and he's got a wet, you know, people send your finger to Christmas jumper, he's got a West Ham Christmas jumper or whatever.

51:05God, let it slide. What's your favourite Ray Winston film before we move on to something more serious? Well, I'll just tell you a funny little one. So, I'm banged up in Switzerland and where I was in Geneva is called Champ de L 'Ambra and it's a ship prison. And I think it's like Europe's worst prison when I was being extradited from Holland. But you was held at gunpoint, weren't you? I'd love to know what really happened. I spoke up for Tommy Robinson. I got asked to go 2018, and Tommy was banged up, and I got asked, would you come and speak on his behalf at Hyde Park Corner? So I reached him and asked him to come there.

51:44So I went there, and I got up and spoke on his behalf, and I put it on the Home Secretary at the time, Sajid Javid, that he had a duty of care towards Tommy's health in the prison system. I've seen this speech. Right. So anyway, I didn't really think about it at the time. It's just come from the heart. You know, I said, because if you don't, you'll be answering to us. So I think that was taken as a threat. I was just saying, look, the world's watching, if anything happens. But anyway, so a few people up was with me. You know. And so that was on a Sunday afternoon, I was saying. On a Tuesday, 36 hours later, I got on a plane to Amsterdam in Ireland.

52:28to meet a couple of my friends, veterans. I was meeting out there. And, well, I didn't make it because I got to the airport and I went to go through customs, you know, your passport control and we've got an international arrest warrant for you from Interpol. And I actually generally thought it was like, you know, politically undesirable or whatever. I was illegally detained in Holland in Schiffel Detention Centre for two or three months. So I was illegally detained there and I was extradited to Switzerland. So I went from this liberal, lovely liberal place, I mean, the people in there, a different class, I'm banged up with El Chapo's partner, Jose Amfrax, I call him, some Colombian boys.

53:18Got on with them? Yeah, we had a little clique of about six of us, a very famous Serbian person's son. Yeah, lovely people. A guy called Leslie, you know, to the Apple's Hotel in Singapore. There were some quirky people. Right. There was about six of us. And, yeah, nice. I've heard some funny, some funny, very funny things happening there. And everyone speaks English watching the World Cup and whatever. You know, having hoots and so forth. And, you know, I have to say the best prison I've ever been to, as bad as that sounds. It was your favourite prison. My favourite prison of all time. Yeah, if you get a chance, pop your head in.

53:54Pop in there, you'll love it, love it again. But once you've got a fridge, I'm not selling this well, am I? Kids, don't follow this route, but yeah, you've got a fridge. Yeah, crime don't pay unless you get banged up in Holland. Yeah, mate, and you cook your own food and whatever. And I mean, I had some very funny times when I was walking around with some of the people. I remember walking around the yard there, and it was like it was, like a big buffer field, there was grass in the middle. And I was talking to these two fellas, and one was from South America. my mum was French and there's a little fella walking round I've got a beard and I went hello mate you alright you look lost you know what I mean I said you alright I said what's your name he said Jihad I'm sorry it's unfortunate anyway so I come back talking to the other two I said see that man over there his name's Jihad one of them said he could be a terrorist and everyone said no no he can't be a terrorist he doesn't have a beard and everyone said he could be in disguise eyes.

54:57Yeah, no, I went from Holland. I was extradited to Switzerland, so basic I was taken from Schiffel Prison at gunpoint, wheeled across the airport, Schiffel Airport. They put me in a wheelchair. I don't need to be in a wheelchair. I'm fine. Why did you need to be held at gunpoint? I don't know. It's just the way they've... Whoever they were to this day, so there's five fellas, they ain't got a uniform on. They've just got... To me, they look like more soldier than old Bill. And they come and put me in a wheelchair. I said, well, you've got to sit in a wheelchair. And they've cuffed me ankles, cuffed me hands, wheeled me across the tarmac.

55:40And they have to just take their ankle cuffs off, obviously, to get up the stairs. So I go upstairs. This is before anyone gets on the plane. So they put me in the right corner, far back right hand corner two of them here three of them there obviously handcuffed and then put blankets over the guns and that and then everyone else gets on the plane to be honest it's quite surreal when it's you they've had the plane loads up I'll never forget the air stewardess come round and she said to me have you got your seatbelt on I went yeah and she went can you show me and I went no so she probably thought I was a bit obtuse or something and I thought so anyway she got on and she went like that pulled the blanket it.

56:19Of course, there's me with my handcuffs and there's my two little snub nose. So people on the plane are going, oh, we have a gun and all that. So they've got a gun pointed at you on the plane as well. Oh, they do what they fucking want. I don't know what people know about Switzerland, but that's the most powerful little country in the world. They do what they want. Everyone's money's there. People say they're neutral and all this. No, they're fucking neutral. They house all the Nazis money for all them years. Do you know what I mean? Sorry, I keep swearing. I don't mean to. I get emotional about that.

56:52Oh, yeah. So, yeah, I go to Geneva. That's all I knew. I knew I was going to Geneva. From Holland, these people are going, oh, we've got you a lawyer. They're not worth a carrot. Any lawyer in Switzerland, they actually talk to them. So, anyway, I get off the plane and come gunpoint. Come on. I said, don't tell you where you're going. It was 40 degrees then. This was 2018. It was May 2018. it was unbelievably hot so they put me in sweat box a smaller sweat box I've seen in my life like you know you like that so when coming on you get on you get the stock whizzing through Geneva now all I can see out the window the windows are sort of blacked out if they've got this black sheet and thing over them you can just see the little strip bit as you're going forwards so as we're going through Geneva at speeds you can see all the motorbikes across the roads just to stop the traffic so we can carry on through you know so we're wishing through Geneva I don't know where we're going now I'm thinking how fucking long are we in this thing for I might not be a brief people probably thought I was the president yeah you've got the motorbikes you've got the calcades the noise the sirens and all this stuff and I'm genuinely saying I think who the fuck's on here do you know what I mean because I've just left I've just left like governments of Chapo Pant of all these fucking people I think fucking hell and I'm not going to lie I think this could be useful back in the day I think it could be a good introduction and we get to the prison and they say come on off with the guns off you get and I said what about the rest of them they went there's only you on here mate I went that's I ain't gonna like you you think what yeah that's a bit of a level and you think what the fuck so what you've done all that for me what the fuck that's a bit of a level yeah well it is I should imagine it was hang on yeah and to be fair I think that was the only of what I didn't appreciate at the time that was the only man and I think they spoke English to me the whole time I was there.

58:45They spoke English. And what's going through your head at this time? I'm a bit funny like that because even – I've had a bit of a mad life, obviously, but even that you think it's like another chapter in the book and you think – I genuinely think that. If I'm writing a book, I think, well, this would be a good chapter, wouldn't it? Right. You know what I mean? Which isn't normal really, I suppose. But I'm not going to lie because I get in there and then they deliberately put me on a muslim wing. Not ideal. and I didn't realise at the time that the two extremist ones that were there didn't come out the whole time I was there.

59:15So they're watching me come in like this. Because I don't know what it is in Switzerland. They're looking at your record, obviously on my record it's got this and that. But the first cell they put me in had six people in it. It's a bit of an eye-opener from like in England you've got one or two and everything is the polar opposite. So in England, for example, if you arrive there and you've got, you know, you've got some snout or you've got this backy or you've got this, or you'd be keeping that to yourself. You've got five or six people in a cell, you think. Do you know what I mean? There you are.

59:49Whatever you've got, you put out. Six tour cells surely got a lead to violence. People can't synthesise this. Remember, it's like, there's three bunk beds. It was tiny. It was tiny. It had a little table that wasn't six seats. There was four little seats like kids ones, like primary school, little plastic chairs and that. a tight shower it's really basic Champs-de-Lon prison if you Google it I think it was built for 200 people there was 800 in there at that time so when we talk about overcrowding in England we don't touch on it in comparison to these people and the US State Department they had a thing bearing in mind they've got what's it called Guantanamo Bay they were having a moan about this gaff and oh this is inhumane and so forth so it's a naughty place so the conditions are terrible yeah Normally in any prison system, you start off, it gets better and better.

1:00:39So I started off in this lovely place in Holland. It's marvellous. And I went to this proper shit. You wouldn't think that of Switzerland. You'd think Bangkok, those areas are going to be inhumane. No, Schompte-Lon, you go online. The first thing's in here, anything to do with Amnesty International, it comes up, Schompte-Lon Prison. Human rights abuse, that sort of thing. And is there violence in that Switzerland jail? I'm led to believe. let's put on there to believe that i got requested to go in a cell with someone right and i didn't know this at the time the pharaoh he uh allegedly his last cell mate didn't leave in a good state are we talking about an alleged murder well yeah i don't say too much i don't know about this leave it at that but he uh he requested me and after that because he wanted to learn english so you ain't got no choice of course okay he could speak a little bit of english He said, one of the only prisoners I've met.

1:01:33None of the staff did. And so, yeah, when I got to know him, he was a Polish lad. He was a very fit man. And when I got to know him, you watch his programmes. Everything's in French. There was nothing in English or Arabic or whatever. I used to watch this Polish... I think I don't know what it was. I could follow it without knowing the language. It was like a little comedy set in the village. And when I got to know him, I said, I said, what happened, the last fella, what happened to him? And he went to me, Justin, he said, you know when you are watching your favourite programme? I went, yeah. And he went, and someone is whistling?

1:02:11I went, oh, he's fucking asking for it. Now I'm joking, obviously. And he went, oh, you understand. I think, no, you crazy fella. But, I mean, yeah, you see some, you do, I mean, I'm laughing about it. I mean, it wasn't a nice experience, you know. Because I was going out on the yard every day, waiting to see whether someone's, you know, whether someone's going to try and iron you out. And, you know, and I got all that, because of these famous pictures of me at the front of the football lads thing with me and Phil Campion and whatever. And I can't get a phone call, so I'm not allowed a phone call, a letter, a visit or whatever, because, you know, in communicado, I think.

1:02:48And I've got these other people walking up to me with a phone going, this is you. You can see it's made a photo of me, Phil Campion, John Mann, I think it is at the front of the football lads. so they go what are you doing and I said you've got children and they went yeah I said well someone done that to your children I'd come with you and I went oh and there were six Russian geezers on the ring big lumps and they're going alright and they were they fucking stood on really so when people came to that Russia and Ukraine I said what's that I'm on but yeah in the end because I was there four and a half month I had to pay to get out there I had to pay money to get out there because they can hold you for what they'd call a six-year sentence so it's three years.

1:03:29Without you seeing a fucking judge. Switzerland is not like any other country. But you've done nothing wrong? No. They're trying to get me to fucking plead guilty to something that I hadn't fucking done. And what was that? This is from five years before someone, I don't want to go this is too much, but someone, not me, someone's due company, whether they'd done something wrong financially. Okay, so financial crime. I know, so that was to do with that but long story short, they're just like, you're paying for this, but, I mean Switzerland for a reason. Switzerland, you've got no control over it, the British government, anyway.

1:04:02Basic principle, and this was relative at the time, right? The British government, for example, would never extradite a British citizen to Switzerland because Switzerland doesn't adhere to human rights. Switzerland never signed the Human Rights Charter. They didn't even sign the Torture Treaty. And they also don't adhere to mental health things. they don't acknowledge mental health it's fucking dangerous place because you've got people in there trying to kill themselves like regularly yeah like people that should be in England they've been broad more and this person they're just fucking in the cell next year you're banged up with them oh that's dangerous yeah honestly I mean one of these people I had a little guy from pool school is a football coach who's tiny geezer and he's in the thing with me and I've got to all cause him he's got a fucking great stab mark in his neck about that wide but and his wrists done long ways.

1:04:55But he said, Bruno, I don't mean that sort of thing. But he... I said to him, Bruno, what happened? I said, what happened? He went, ah, I panicked. It's not what he's talking about. So he's plunged his old woman with a fucking carving knife in the stomach. And when he's saying he panicked, he's talking about himself. I panicked because he thinks he's dead. So then he's going to kill himself. So he's stuck the carving knife in his neck. So he's going, ah, I'm banged up. there's so many nutty people so I said Bruno I said mate I said you get up and then I go to the toilet I mean the toilet's there I said you go anywhere else like we're going to fall out he's like oh well I think we're friends I said we are friends but you're fucking nuts you can't right it's getting like a lot this my my mate I was calling him because it's very multicultural obviously I think it was about 80 % 85 there was only putting on me 85 for the other lot and there was a few Brazilians Russians and that there's a Brazilian lad on there we school in a man a football and he's banged up with his skizer now we have a same as a Spanish skizer but he is married used to walk around his sandals like a Jesus thing reading his Bible on the yard every day with his head in there walking around you know you look in being a full ticket anyway and I see this name on one day looks like shit all he's like he ain't slept when you're right brother's something oh just this man this this is crazy it's crazy i said what's that he said it he's just sort of spanish but it's in the locker and he's going yeah but he's woke up in the middle of the night and this man we are standing on the little plastic chairs you get with a telly on the wall with a fork stabbing the celly claret all over him stabbing food just staring him I know I was trying to reach the buzzer no don't come to them give a fuck if they just drunk on this or dinner they do not give a fucking one down on the roll call you know he said in the morning he says hello night his gazeos fucking for such bits in the morning they come and take this way there's a marry of a woman off to the fucking hospital and he said he said bitch I said well look on the bike so I said at least you ain't gonna see him again I said late on that day when they opened that cell do you want to put that gator back in with you he's like are you sleeping propel fitness water with Gatorade electrolytes zero sugar and vitamins propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self what propels you propel with Gatorade electrolytes this episode is brought to you by Palmolive.

1:07:35Family time isn't just the big moments. It's weeknight dinners, sitting around the table, everyone talking all at once. So when the plates are empty and the sink is full, use Palmolive Ultra. Palmolive's most powerful formula removes up to 99.9 % of grease, leaving your dishes sparkling clean. And the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier, so you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at palmolive.com. No. You know what I mean? They're so... What about your mental wealth? So through the life that you've led, you've come under constant threat from Islamists.

1:08:10You never know if you're going to get nicked or not. You've got to keep a gun at home. You're in jail in Switzerland where people are being killed in cells and God knows what else. How has all of that affected your mental wealth? Because it must take its toll. I was diagnosed with PTSD, obviously, when I come out. So I didn't realise at the time.

1:08:29Yeah, I'm not going to lie. It doesn't do you no good. I mean, I had... And there's no shame in that either. No, I'll be honest with you. Because, you know, no one's made me do nothing. I'm not a kid. I don't think I'd say that thing's wrong for myself because putting that next to a little girl with leukaemia or something. You know, you're all big boys, aren't you? But I remember, I think I was home for about six weeks or something like that. And just one day, that just hit me. Like, sort of that you're lucky to be alive. You know, some of these things that you think, you do question you think I'm sorry I'm going to get my doubt there why did you you know because if you know British government things like that you know I don't think when you look at all these things you think you put them all together and you think really should I still be here yeah but do you know what do you live in a state of paranoia I mean I've had people attack you I've had you know several different things and all that but do you know what I mean it pays to be paranoid nowadays we do what we do for our kids it's like it's not going to change you're going to change me you're going to keep going let's talk about kids let's finish this with Together for the Children what is that?

1:09:40about a year ago through the contacts with Telf and Naga PAG UK so these are all child support groups I was friends with these people and we put them together with the Football Lads and we formed what's now known as Football Lads Together for the Children and have taken that across the country. We did two events last year. The second one, which was last June, about 30 ,000 people attended that. The first one we just did with children because there was a lot of survivors in that talking. We didn't involve the footballers with that. The second one we did, and we got another 30 ,000 people, something like that, turned up.

1:10:24Altogether, survivors speaking. people from Telford and Rochester and that was just great to see because you do feel we were the first people or certainly amongst the first people to call for a national inquiry in this country when we were in Telford you can see this in the filming Telford and Rochester in 2018 and we're saying that on the steps of police stations to the old bill you know we do my national inquiry and we've been pursuing that ever since quite where that's going to go at the moment I watch all these people kicking it about but they're not really doing anything are they if you know what I mean but you know our job now is to make sure that that now does come to some fruition.

1:11:03So you're like a pressure movement. Well yeah I mean we're a campaign it's like you know when we did the film screening the other day there was a lot of politicians there you know they came to watch a film that we made and I was saying to all of those you know you were there yourself then it's like we're not a political party we're a campaign. There was no reason for any of those people not to get behind what we do. It doesn't matter what walk of life you're from you know It's not about any religion. We welcome people from all religions, from all walks of life, across the social divide, come along.

1:11:35If you care about your children, then come along. And with that in mind, we've got National Survivors Day that we're doing on Saturday the 27th of June, which is going to be a huge event in London, following on from last year. So this is the second annual one, if you like. National Survivors Day. National Survivors Day, yeah. on Saturday the 27th of June in London. That's going to be massive. You're going to be seeing lots of stuff coming up about that. Prior to that, on the 23rd and 24th of May, we've set up this thing that's called Walking for the Children, and that has actually gone global.

1:12:12We're asking towns and cities across the country initially to get behind it and to walk with their children four miles, hence walking, and the number four, the children. and we're asking them in their local areas. So, for example, people in Clacton are going to walk down the beach. People in London are probably going to walk down the South Bank. People, you know, different places going through parks. We've got people doing this in New Zealand, France, Spain, Italy,

1:12:44Tenerife, Thailand. So all of a sudden this has got some momentum. We hope to do it every year. and our reason for doing that, we're asking people to do this with their children to get so the children, it's a little bit of education with children marching for children, you know, and we're asking them to get sponsored, the children, to try and raise some money for us to put on a massive event on National Survivors Day and we've never asked anyone for money. I'm not going to lie, I look at some of these people out there who are asking for money for things and I question some of them, what they're doing and where that money goes or if they've got a real good reason for asking people for money this is what we're doing it for it's for National Survivors Day and everything is transparent with what we do Is there somewhere where more people can find out more detail?

1:13:32Yeah I'm hoping Liam is right with you we're going to put a link on the end of your programme Yeah of course where you're going to get a link so people can go and find out about Walking for the Children they can find out about National Survivors Day and also they can have a little look at the film Football Lads Together for the Children. We've got a link on that for that so you can download the stream and watch it. All the profits from that are going towards National Survivors Day as well. So, you know, have a little look at the end of this programme, everyone, please. Try and get behind some of these things.

1:14:03You know, we're a campaign. We're not political. And we represent children. And when can the public expect your film to be released? Sunday the 1st of March, I think, comes out. Sunday the 1st of March. Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to make sure that I put links to Together for the Children in the description. Please go and take a look. I mean, everybody should at least take a look, and I can't see any reason not to get behind it. It's educational, I think, mate, isn't it? And we'll put the link into your film as well, Justin. Is there anything else you want to say to people? It could be a thank you, it could be a final note, a message, or something you want to hope for change.

1:14:36Yeah, I'd ask everyone to get behind Together for the Children project and campaign, because our children deserve a better future. And it doesn't matter what group you are, what party, individual concerned citizens, together we are stronger. Yeah, I fully agree. And anything for the preservation of children and their security and their future and their state of mind, I'm behind 100%. So that link is going in there. I hope you enjoyed this conversation. A lot of you would have heard of the DFLA and you probably up until now didn't know as much as you do now. Please like and subscribe to the channel so I can keep bringing these interesting guests on and these conversations that the mainstream will just never, ever air.

1:15:17And Justin, stay safe and keep doing what you're doing, sir. Thanks for having me on, Lou. Thank you, brother. Take care. Thanks, mate.

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