I Escaped Being MURDERED | Men Did Whatever They Wanted to Me

28:37Shit. And it would always be in their car? Always be in the car in bushes, down back of buildings. You'd have to find somewhere to go because obviously they don't want to get caught. So I knew places within that town that weren't too far where we could drive and no one would see us and no one would be about. Did you ever get caught or arrested for any of that behaviour? I've been caught at it with someone in a field and then I have been arrested for it, so I was arrested. What did they arrest you for? Persistently loitering the streets for the purposes of prostitution. Right. So what they was doing, they was having a big crackdown in the area and in my, because I've still got the write-up, I can Google it, and it's there, and it says they wanted to purge the streets of prostitutes, which I don't think is a very nice term to use, like with some sort of dirt or what have you.

29:39but there was a crackdown with the drinkers in the area and I think violence stuff like that so what they was doing is they were giving tickets out so you get a warning and you get a second warning on your third one you get arrested now I knew from another lady what that entails so when they arrested me I remember begging them please don't arrest me for this please please please because I knew what were coming. No, no, they don't care. They'll arrest you for it. And they're within the rights to do that, I suppose. So what happened then is I went to court and when I came outside of court, there was a photographer there waiting for me.

30:20So I grew up in that town and my family lived in that town. I was more worried about my nana at the time because she got the paper as well and read it. And yes, I was putting the paper and my face was put in the paper and I'd never felt so embarrassed in my whole entire life. This is why I don't like the mainstream media. It's very different you coming on voluntarily to share your story because there's a happy ending to this story. Yes. But when you go and take a picture of someone that isn't, they're committing a crime, but they're not criminals. They're very damaged ladies, very damaged women.

30:56You needed help, not humiliation. No, no. And what made it worse, I was living in some awful flats at the time. Everyone were off the red, everyone were using. And the landlord came in and said, I've seen you in the paper. And he came in with his friend and said, your rent's gone up. You'll have to pay for sex, through sex. Your landlord wanted to exchange rent for sex? Yes, yes. Did you? No. So what happened is I'm arguing, tossing him, why is my only rent going up? wise nobody else is going up and I have hours in benefit paying for it. And he was just saying, no, you're going to have to, you should get kicked out.

31:35So what I did is I didn't go to the police, because I got to a point where reporting stuff to the police was just pointless because it gave me abuse. You was the bad person. I was a bad person. I was the criminal, whatever. I was a prostitute, so it was all my fault. So I went to drug and alcohol team, which I had to go there anyway because I had to get my scripts and that, and I shared it with them. They pestered me to ring the police. I refused to. So adult social services got involved and they moved me into a hostel. So I had to move out of my flat and go and live in a woman's hostel, which I was there for three years then.

32:12What's that like? Volatile? Yeah. Apparently there's security outdoor there now. Yeah. So there's security 24-7. But there was staff there, but there weren't security. But, yeah, they've kind of upped the game now because it's... Not nice. Not nice. And I've been assaulted outside there by men. Was you living in constant fear? Well, yeah, of course. Always. This may not be directed at you, but I'm interested to know both. But what was the worst thing you ever witnessed a man do to a vulnerable woman working the streets? It's hard to remember because there was always stories. Always, always stories.

32:49He's done this, he's done that. Watch out for him. But it's really sad because it's not done in a way like, oh, look what's happened to me. It's done so we're warning each other and we're supporting each other. But what happened to me is I went and did business with a punter in some bushes and he started, while he was having sex with me, he started hitting me in the face. So I said to him, if you don't stop, I'll scream, get off me. And he wouldn't, he carried on. So then he started strangling me. But I felt like, I mean, I've been strangled off ex-boyfriends and stuff like this, but I felt like he meant business.

33:31He really wanted to hurt me or kill me. And anyway, I started trying to get him off me. And then he's tried smothering me with his hands, pinched my nose, put his hand over my mouth. And he was still sexually assaulting me at the same time. And I fought and fought this guy. Luckily, he weren't big. He was quite scrawny. and I fought him and fought him and managed to get him off me. And I've had loads of stuff happen. I've been jumped off people. I've been robbed. I've been sexually assaulted numerous times. But he frightened the life out of me. And I managed to actually give him a bit of an hiding afterwards.

34:13That's what I was like. I was just ruthless. Adrenaline. Adrenaline, rage. And fear is a great weapon. Well, I think so too. And it's a good job. I went into a rage because I was able to get him off me. I was able to chase him. He was caught on camera. I grabbed his top because I knew bits about DNA and stuff like that. There's evidence there. And I ran to the ambulance station because sometimes I had a phone, sometimes I didn't. So I ran to the ambulance station and the police came and they wouldn't let me out of the car. They got me in the car. They wanted to take me to hospital. And I thought, this is weird.

34:50They want to help me. They want to listen to me. They want to hear me. They don't want to arrest me or threaten to arrest me for prostitution. And they begged me to not go back out there. So they tried to keep me in the car. They couldn't because I said, well, I'm not under arrest for anything. You've no right to keep me here. I said, please, Joanna, he's still on the loose. So no, no, no. I needed to go and get my money. So I went back out there into the darkness of the night, down the B, very secluded, isolated area. This guy's still on the loose. but I didn't care and I just jumped in another car and I then found out he was arrested.

35:29I went to court. I had to stand up in court and like... Give evidence. Give evidence and be pulled to pieces because of what I was doing. Did you feel like you was on trial? 100%. I was made to look like the perpetrator. I was made to feel like the perpetrator. He said I'd tried to rob him and I have done stuff like that but I hadn't in that instant. and yes, he was, I don't know, he was told he could apply for parole every four to five years. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects.

36:11And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. Real value shows up in reliability. You don't have to second guess. Like a set of Firestone all-season tires. They're designed to deliver confidence-inspiring wet weather traction and a quieter ride, no matter the road, season after season. Firestone all-season tyres For durability, you can count on Just like people count on you Firestone Always dependable since 1900 Oh, so he got convicted Yes, he got convicted Well, if he's been convicted, you can say his name on here Lee Neilds There you go, fucking animal Well, what made this situation worse So the police knew who he was As soon as I described him they had their eyes and ears out for him.

37:15It was no surprise to them. It was no surprise. He was on day release from prison. Shouldn't have been on day release because obviously he weren't in a fit state to be released into the public. You know, he was a danger to women. And then I found out what he was serving a sentence for is raping girls, 15-year-old girls on the canal. So they'd be walking over the bridge, over the canal, and he'd drag them under the bridge and rape them and strangle them. so it was a really serious Serial fucking dog Yes, yes So I don't I'm presuming he's still there I hope he's still there So he may still work And how many years ago was this then?

37:57This was about Nine, ten years ago now Oh the chances are He still is Did you have any other occasions where you felt you was coming under threat? Yes The ones that I can remember and the ones that Weapons I'm not sure about weapons I'm trying to understand the mind of somebody That will pull up on the side of a street Knowing damn well that there's a young woman That's mentally unwell Yeah And haggle with them about the price of sex And be happy paying£20 To have sex in a bush or their car That's a very shameless act I mean, you're the one with the addiction I mean, unless they have as well But I'm trying to get into the mind of someone like that Some of them What kind of person does that?

38:41I think it attracts people. It attracts predators. So they know that they're going to assault you and they can do whatever. They can be rough with you. They can hold you down and do whatever they want, really. Because they've given you money and there's a transaction. There's a transaction and they know that the police don't really think much of us anyway. And so I've actually done business with guys, given money, and then they've robbed me handbag and ran off. and they've actually robbed me of the money that they've just given me. And I've been, I remember my first assault. So I don't, like I said, I don't remember my first sexual encounter, but I remember my first assault.

39:24And he started, before we'd agreed with the money, he started to get his penis out and just trying to rub it on me without any agreement to anything. so he's starting to like try and sexually assault me immediately so I've gone to go and again we're on the streets down this like alleyway and he just dragged me back by my ear I started beating me and I remember trying to fight this guy but he was quite a big guy and he just kept overpowering me and I'd get away and he just dragged me back I'd get away I'd drag me back anyway I was screaming and two other addicts who were around the area at the time they came and he ran off and they grabbed him.

40:14I said, keep hold of him, keep hold of him. And he said, she's just tried to rob me. So a lot of these guys use that as their excuse to get away, to get off with stuff. She's just robbed me. And I hadn't. He just tried to assault me. Well, he had assaulted me, but like sexually. And then he beat me up. If I was a sergeant, I'd say to my team, right, police that area there. put your cameras on these cars, do background checks on these people and find an excuse to raid them because I want to know what's on their computer, what their habits are, what they do. Because as you say, yeah, it stands to reason that it attracts predators because for£20, that's a piss in the ocean.

40:56Of course. And there's some really strange people and like these guys that start thinking that they're your boyfriend and stuff like that. I was going to say to you, what kind of outside of sex and oral sex, what other bizarre requests do some of these people ask for? What's some of the craziest things you can remember? The things that I do remember is asking them to piss on them. They asked you to piss on them? Yeah, in the mouth, in the face. I was pretty shocked at that, but he paid me, so I did it. I mean, you could have eaten asparagus for all he knew. Well, I've been drinking black cans.

41:37That should do the job. Yeah, and then when you're using, you don't really drink many fluids, and if it is fluids, it's probably alcohol or something like that. So, yeah, it wouldn't have been pleasant, but you seem to enjoy it. And then stamp on someone's balls with heels on. Fucking hell. I mean, I wonder how that works in the eyes of the police, because that's going to cause someone damage. It has to. Oh, yeah. I mean, how hard did you stamp on their balls? I just did it gently at first. He kept saying harder and harder and harder until I was really stamping on him. And we talking on the actual testicles themselves or just the scrotum?

42:13Both, just in between his legs, wherever it hit. It hit me. It would die. We were around the back of some garages. We were outside and he just laid on the floor and he wanted me to actually do it harder, which felt a bit strange. And it's not something I really wanted to do, but I did it because he was paying me and I was off my head. You say you've slept with thousands of men. Oh, yeah. Did you grow a hatred towards men because you've seen the worst of men? That's why I can picture you enjoying kicking these blokes in the bollocks. It's a good question, that. I've never really thought of that.

42:48You must have an opinion on men because you've encountered more men than most. Because I have a son. I think that helps me not think of all men in that way. And I know some great men, but I'm very wary. I'm very guarded around men. I've had one partner in the last eight years. That lasted three years, but he was fucking hard work. Have you got a good radar now? Do you feel like you can sense whether someone's a good man or a bad man pretty quick? I think so, yeah, massively. I think I'm quite hypervigilant and I also think I have quite an invisible wall up as well. No one really tries it with me.

43:29No. No one really. No, they don't drop into my DMs or out like that. I think they're probably a bit like, no, she doesn't give off any kind of energy that she wants that. But you did have a bloke try and kill you and you did get the better of him. Oh, I know. Yeah, yeah, maybe. They're a bit wary. And they think, fuck that. Yeah, yeah. You win. So, of course, of course. Yeah, so I think it has had a lasting effect on me and it is tough. And I think the main thing is trust. I don't trust a lot of men. I don't trust them. I wouldn't trust to be intimate with them. They'd have to, I think as time's gone on, they'd have to be quite a special person.

44:10And you know, when you work in the streets, is there any kind of protection? Or actually, the real question is, is there any kind of control? Is there someone controlling you to do that? Or are you completely independent? Are you exempt of a pimp? Well, I recently realised through doing, like I said dissertation on prostitution but my partner at the time was my pimp I thought if they your pimp it means they come out and they watch and all that kind of stuff and it doesn't so a lot of the women down there they have partners and if that partner is profiting from your prostitution they are essentially your pimp so um yeah there was a lot of control through a guy who I was with, he was really abusive in lots of ways, really controlling.

44:59He wouldn't even watch me refuse to because he didn't want to stand out in the cold. So he'd send you out to sleep with men whilst he was sitting indoors in his pinstripe suit medallion? Yeah, he would not. And he came out and watched me once because I'd been assaulted and I said, please just take the thing, my number. Obviously, I was a bit scared and that. And he came out and what his words were. he said it's alright for you, you get to get in cars and get warm that was his words because he was too cold Did he ever get his just desserts, this piece of shit? I don't even know if he's alive or dead to be fair, I couldn't really care less Did he ever go to jail or anybody weigh him in that you know?

45:39The worst thing about it is everyone you said Joanna what you're doing with him, what you're doing with him every time I were in jail he was always there, he's never there now because it's always you that's in jail So, yeah, he got his habit fed for years from me. And it was me doing all the grafting. It was me doing all the jail. And it was me doing all the street work. Did you ever say no to anyone? Ever turn anybody down? I doubt it. No, no. Because when you get up on to you, you're so relieved. You're like, oh, God, get me off these streets. Let me do what I can do. Then I can go and score and get home.

46:15Was there anything that you wouldn't do? If they asked for something, you'd say, no, that's crossing the line? I've drawn the line at anal, that kind of stuff, even though it has happened once, but it never happened again. So, yeah, that's probably where I would have drawn the line. But the rest of it... Just in there. Yeah. Most people just want sex and a blowjob and then to go. You don't get that many weird requests, but then you do get weirdos at the same time with the behaviour around you and they get very obsessed with you very quickly and then they think they're your boyfriend and they're telling them they love you.

46:54But I would play into that because, again, it's money. So I would lead them to believe that. I was watching 24 Hours in Police Custody. Funny enough, I've only seen the first half, but there's, the story so far is, I'm yet to see the end result, but there was a, looks like to me, a prostitute. I hate using that term if you sat robs to me, but there was a prostitute whose boyfriend would help fund her habit or he would drive her about and stuff. He wasn't a pimp as far as I know, but long and short of it is she would also serve up and she's arranged to meet these two guys so she can sell them a bit of gear in the back of the car and then another car has come round and four lads have jumped out at balaclavas, chased these two lads and one of the lads ends up with a baseball bat around his head bleeding out of his ear.

47:51The woman has set these two people up to sell them the drugs to then get them robbed by a gang. Did you ever go down that route of setting anybody up? Yes, I did. One guy in particular, I ended up in a relationship with a guy who was quite a prolific offender, serious offender, you know, holding people, knives to the floor, robbing post offices and, you know, causing a lot of trauma while he's robbing people. And so he came out of prison. I ended up getting with him. And at this point, I think I was about 21. I had not actually worked the beat. Not long after I had, when I was 22, but at this point I hadn't.

48:44So he said, go down the beat, get in a car, make sure it's a nice car, don't get in no shitty car, and then bring him back and we'll rob him. You won't have to do business with him, we'll rob him. So I took him back, they came through the back door, this guy and another guy, and it all just went like tits up basically. so they ended up taking him to the bank over and over driving his car taking him to the bank making him draw money out and he tied him up with my dressing gown cord and tied him to a chair and all night we just smoked drugs um in in front of him obviously he was pretty shook up and traumatised by this, the guy.

49:34I was off my head on Valium and eventually I went upstairs and fell asleep while they carried on taking him to the bank. And then he's come upstairs and got me and said, tell him if your grass is up, you're going to say he's raped you. And I remember vaguely, I didn't really want to do that, but he grabbed my hand and scratched his arm. So that I had DNA, basically. So eventually they let him go under the agreement that he's going to meet him again and give him more money. Obviously, this is what drugs do to people. Insane. And I said to him, no, don't. The police will be there waiting. Anyway, the police were there.

50:23The actual armed response were there waiting for him. And then the police came through my door. I was young, I'd never been arrested I'd been arrested plenty of times But nothing for as serious as that So I basically was shitting myself And then I was interrogated for hours by CID There was both, because of their previous There was, he was recalled straight away And the other guy was put on remand So what happened is they couldn't So it was conspiracy to rob so they couldn't prove that I'd conspired to rob him because I said I'd gone down the beat, I'd brought him back to the house and then I went upstairs and fell asleep.

51:09So they couldn't prove that I conspired to rob him. And at the time they were saying, Joanna, we know you're not a prostitute. I said, well, yeah, I am. And the guys were amazing because they backed me up massively. You know, where I grew up, you don't grasp people, you don't grasp on people. So So I was charged with it. I was summoned to Crown Court. I stood up in the dark with both of them. They had to plead guilty because they were banged to rights. I pled not guilty and I was very lucky I got off with it. And one of them were IPP'd and served 14 years. The one that got your hand and scratched him?

51:44The other guy got four, served two, come out and died of cancer. I seen him in the street and he said, I'm dying. And he said, I don't care. And he had children as well. He said, I don't care. Do you want to? I don't care less. Eventually you did end up in prison, didn't you? I did end up, yeah, yeah, I did. Once my son was removed, I was then, I think looking back, the courts were quite lenient on me. Yeah, before you talk about prison, what was going on with your son throughout all of your street work? He was left with the guy who, basically my pimp, which I hate to say, he was left with him while I'd go and work the streets.

52:21and he would take him into other room while I'd bring punters back. So I'd be in one room and he'd be in the other with me some, which is just horrendous and shocking, shocking behavior on my part as well. You know, and... This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports.

53:05Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. Real value shows up in reliability. You don't have to second guess. Like a set of Firestone all-season tires. They're designed to deliver confidence-inspiring wet weather traction and a quieter ride, no matter the road, season after season. Firestone all-season tires. For durability, you can count on. Just like people count on you. Firestone. Always dependable. Since 1900.

53:42Have you always been this honest and open? No, no. Do you feel better for just letting it all out? I think so. It's a lot of stuff that I'm saying and I'm thinking I can't believe I'm saying this. Well, it's also, it's a lot to carry. I think for me, it's still a lot of guilt around it all that I still carry. And I find it hard with my son to, like, not have that guilt. I think it's just going to always be with me and always stay with me because I find it hard to justify that kind of behaviour, drugs or not. but I also know that I'm a good person and I've got a good heart and I wouldn't intentionally cause my son any harm or to be in situations like that.

54:30Me, without drugs, I'm a good person. I'm a caring person and I'm just trying to say that I would never put my son in that situation if it weren't for class A drugs and drug addiction and all that, carry on. If it wasn't for the substance going to work. Yeah, because I have a dog and I adore my dog and he's so well looked after, so I know what I'm capable of. You know what I mean? I would never have any children. I'm 43, I don't want children. You know what I mean? I've got my son and he's 22 now, but I know how much I'm capable of loving another, you know, something as innocent as a dog like a child.

55:11To me, dogs are like children and I'm capable of looking after that dog to the best of my ability. Yeah, no, good on you. So tell me about prison before we get to the part where you had enough of everything. Because I know you've been in hospital and you've nearly died and lost limbs and all sorts of stuff. But let's go through prison because how many times have you been to prison? What was it like? Did you share a wing or a cell or a prism of any infamous female prisoners? What was the experience like? Was it volatile? I suppose I bet you was okay in there because you can hold your own. Well, I think so, yeah.

55:45So I went to prison nine times, all in all. Fucking hell. Yeah, I went to prison nine times and I've just recently got all my, you know, reports from the police and stuff like that and there's a total of 99 offences but 33 convictions. So a lot of them offences get collated together. So it might be failing to surrender. that's one or you've been shoplifting as well so a lot of them they bring them all together and sentence you like that Was shoplifting your main thing? Shoplifting was my main thing there has been some violence there's again a lot I've had to read through it because I'm writing a book that I don't remember there's Grievous Bodley Harm but that was thrown out I can't remember who that was to that's how bad my memory is so there's stuff so I had to read through it all because I can't remember half of it Any burglaries?

56:40I've burgled one house, but I swore I'd never do that after what happened to us growing up. But I have burgled one house. I didn't get caught for that. But to me, shoplifting was more my thing because I could justify that more as not being as harmful to other people. Not stealing off an individual. Yes, yes. Even though it's not great, it's the less of the two evils, in my opinion. So, yeah, just shoplifting, really. But I'd just fill the trolley up with me and alcohol, cover it, get them like pound bags that you use. They'd just be hanging up on the sides. I don't think they do now. It's a few years back.

57:17And I'd just fill the trolley up with meat and alcohol and like£300 worth of meat and alcohol and just trolley dash I'd call it. Obviously I'd get caught loads as well because I'd be keen to know I'd try and make myself look different but you can't make yourself look that different. Did you care that you was getting sent to jail or was it more like a bit of a break for you? No, in the beginning, I remember going, and I remember I weren't too bad. I was never there for that long. I think the longest I did was six months, serve free. And then after that, sometimes I'd be there for two weeks. So I'd come out of jail and I'd commit crimes or I'd be recalled back to prison because I'd breached my licence conditions.

58:00So, yes, they weren't that long sentences, but I'd get stuck into stuff. I'd go to work, I'd get a job, I'd tend to work on gardens. I've done probably every job in there, to be fair, but my preferred was working on the gardens. HMP style, it's a very well-kept prison. Yeah, it's chaotic and it's intimidating. It's all them things that you'd imagine prison to be. Rough, ready, violent, bitchy. All the lot. So I went on first night centre and all the women are sat on the floor shuffling down the methadone queue very, very poorly. and I thought, fucking hell, they look bad. Now a couple of sentences later, I was joining them on the floor, shuffling up the methadone queue in the same poor state that they was in.

58:45Would there be like a woman convict that was in charge that would tax people like you do getting mail? Yeah, there was a massive hierarchy and there were some women that were massively feared. One of the murderers, she was massively feared. I was once put on her life as house and that was an eye-opening experience and it made me feel quite sad actually because I've gone on this life's house and I'm going around speaking to all women and what you're in for murder, murder, obviously it's the life's house. Who have you murdered? My partner, my partner, my partner, partner. Now I know the majority of them if not all of them was through domestic violence and some of these women just seem like your average woman.

59:28They weren't like many of the other women, you know, rowdy and loud and stuff like that. They had children and it was quite sad to see, but I remember this woman, she kind of latched onto me and she kept saying, come to the gym, come to the gym. So I go to the gym with her and I'm walking around the jail with this woman until someone comes up to me and says, do you know what she's in for? I said, yeah, murdered. They went, no, do you know what she's actually done? I said, well, go on. And And she said she tortured someone to death, a woman. I can't remember her name. And she, her and her boyfriend tortured her and they pulled her fingernails off.

1:00:09And I think they rolled her out of a carpet onto a motorway, something like that. And I was walking around the jail with her and I didn't know. Thinking she was sound? She was a bit strange, but you just get on with stuff, don't you? and um was there any catfights in there yeah i've been in well i've only i didn't have a proper scrap i just grabbed her and pinned her up against wall by her throat because you can't choose who you padded up with and if that person's horrendous then you have to just deal with it the screws are not going to do anything and i was having to deal with this woman calling me all sorts of names to me face being really hard work i was trying to help her because she was doing a detox of alcohol they don't think she was mentally sound i weren't in a great place because i just i was still detoxing as well and i just had enough i just grabbed her by her throat and pinned her up against wall and um and i ended up punching the wall instead of her because i didn't want to go down the block i'd already experienced the block and it's not a nice place to go um it was a it was a tough place to block to be.

1:01:23So I didn't actually, but I would have normally have. Yeah. I mean, I used to, the reason why I ask if you witnessed any cat fights was because I worked at the door for years and years. Yeah. And I would dread women kicking off because they were a lot harder to deal with separate than two men fighting. When they latch on and they get the hair and they wrap it around and they are vicious. angry women are fucking well especially angry drunk women but I can imagine people that are angry in jail and women they don't need to be drunk to be vicious it's just in them I've witnessed a few fights but not many not that many to be fair but like they'll all just jump on one woman you know what I mean and there's one woman fighting like five women so prison for you as far as a memory goes is nowhere near as haunting as work in the streets oh god no no And what about hospital?

1:02:16What about the near-death experiences? I would just wake up in hospital with a drip attached to my arm or I would bump into someone like a police officer who said, I've had to ring you an ambulance. I found you on the corner at the street, don't be. Just OD'd. I've been in Spire. Ambulance has been rang. I've been in bedsits. Ambulance has been rang where the police have had to come as well because I'm ODing, but I'm still a bit compass mentis and they're trying to get me with naloxone. So I'd wave my arms about because if you got naloxone, they're then thrown into withdrawals and your drugs are wasted.

1:02:54So I'm flinging my arms about because you have to be still for them to get you with the naloxone. But then the police would come, Joanna, you'd come to the police station and go to hospital. Obviously, I'd go to hospital. But a lot of times, yeah, I'd properly OD and just wake up. I'm really lucky, to be fair, because... You overdosed plenty of times. Yeah, yeah, very lucky. And the overdoses started to come thick and fast when I started to take a drug called pre-gabbling. That was just insane, being addicted to that. What is, they call it pre-gab, didn't they? Pre-gab, yeah, yeah. What is that exactly?

1:03:27It's for nerve damage and nerve pain. So I used to go to doctors saying my leg, my leg through injecting, I was really in pain and I wasn't. And then that's when they started me on pre-gabbling. I'd also buy it off people as well. Did it suppress the clock as well? Yes, yes. So if I was rattling off heroin, then pre-gabbling would stop that rattle. It was that powerful. It would override the withdrawals and it'd get you that off your head. It'd override the heroin and withdrawals. But the heroin wouldn't override the pre-gabbling withdrawals, if that makes sense. Yeah. Because it's totally different substances.

1:04:07in so if I'm rattling off pre-gabs and I can't get hold of them I'm rattling and I found that throughout the last years of my addiction I'm either rattling off pre-gabs or I'm off my head on them and I would eat I got up to a point where I were eating 13 300 mil pre-gablings which God knows what that comes to like with Valium I can eat strips of them and yeah I'll wake up itself and what have you and whatever. I don't know what I've done. But with pre-gabbling, 13 300s is a hell of a lot. And say like if you took one 300 mil pre-gabbling now, you'd feel it. You'd feel a bit wobbly and a bit off your head off it.

1:04:51How many Valiums did you take in one hit in your prime? Me and my ex, I used to get 56 fives and he used to get 56 tens and we'd just share them. To put it into perspective, if someone goes to the doctors and they've got chronic backache, they'll give you two milligrams of diazepam. Yes, yes. And that kind of takes the edge off. Yes, strips and strips of them. And they're strips of 10 megs. Oh, yeah, yeah. Strips of them. And then I got into selling the fake ones. But it was with a guy who I was with. He was selling fake valleys. We'd got a cheetah mill place in Manchester to get them. And we'd sell them.

1:05:30But he had more control over that. I was just driving around in a mobility car. Because also for people that don't know, everyone knows that heroin is extremely addictive. Yeah. But Valiums are so dangerous. Oh, my God. Not only when you're coming off them, you get the physical and the mental withdrawal. Oh, 100%. Dangerous. And people can, like you say, you can build a very good constitution for Valiums, can't you? Yes, yeah. Massive, massive tolerance to Valium. Massive. You just want more. and they stop having the desired effect. That's why you need to start eating strips of them because they don't have that desired effect.

1:06:05Just like anything, you need more and more. And going back to smack, because that's the one that everyone's going to be familiar with and there's so many horror stories. And not many people come back from smack addictions. That's the thing, especially if they get to the point where they're injecting. And how much was you injecting a day? If I could inject 50, 60 pounds worth, I would do. So that's six, 10 pound bags. But if you're smoking crack, you can smoke hundreds and hundreds of pounds worth of that and still be going. It's amazing how you, well, you did manage to stop and how you've got your faculties.

1:06:42You speak very well. You're very fluent. You can obviously grab words from your brain and you know exactly what they mean and they flow out lovely. Some people I know that have had a drug addiction for ages and they're still on something now. They're still on some kind of prescription drug, but they can't even speak properly. I was like that when, and you know, people witnessed and seen me, I had a pre-gab, what I call a pre-gab stutter. I was rocking back and forth. The drug team thought I had special needs, thought I needed outside other help because I was that poorly. and I weren't able to articulate myself very well.

1:07:20I didn't understand words. I couldn't grasp conversations. All I used to say is my head's in the clouds. I couldn't really describe it as anything else. But what I've done over the years is I've constantly shared in meetings and air meetings in particular where you're talking in front of a group full of people, learning words from other people, how to articulate yourself. I then started to educate myself and went and I've just completed a degree. So all that writing and learning how to put words together has really massively benefited me. And that's why I wanted to get into public speaking because...

1:08:02It really shows. Thank you. Because I couldn't speak. I couldn't understand words. It was just very basic, like a child really. and I've got to a point now where I feel confident in speaking and I'm okay with how I speak. And in my early recovery, that's all I wanted. And what was the final straw? What was, you know, 13 years of prostitution, attempted murder, rape, violence, prison, hospital, nearly dying. Yeah. All that, you still carried on. What made you go, enough? Right, so the last year I had a pun to live with me. so he basically just moved himself into my flat but obviously he, I used to get him to score I used to send him to drug dealers to score for me he's a bit of a sick and twisted individual targets working girls, has done for years he hasn't even had a baby with one then she died of an overdose the baby or the mum?

1:09:04the mum both fucking terrible yeah, so he was a real horrible con yeah nasty piece of work and he so he was living with me he was hiding drugs all around the house um what the flat and then he would go to work and I'd have to ring him where are they where are they and he'd talk me I'm not telling you I'm not telling you I'm not telling you and then he'd go right go into the kitchen if you go behind this and you go under that and you know I just had so much control power and control over me and And I felt like he was assaulting me while I was asleep. I have no real proof of that. It was just a feeling I got while I was under the influence.

1:09:50And all he did was beg me for business all the time, just pester me for sex and blowjobs. And he made my skin crawl. I think when I've worked the beat, yeah, I've done that. And then I've had to fuck off and go and get off my head. Where he was there all the time. Home's meant to be a safe place. even in your situation? Of course, yeah. You go back to your safe place and I didn't have that. And then I couldn't walk very far. So like the last five, six years or a lot of my addiction, just festering away, led on a sofa, just wasting away basically. And all my back, all my muscle in my back started to waste and weaken and I couldn't walk very far.

1:10:33So I was only 35 and I could barely get across the road and back to get my methadone. So that, I'd done all my leg in from injecting in my groin, so I've no vein in my left leg. And I was suicidal every day, and all I kept doing was picturing myself in a coffin. And I was living above a funeral parlour, actually. So I was above a funeral parlour. So I felt death around me, and I felt like I am going to die. I cannot do this anymore. This is just hell, pure, pure hell. and then I was getting help from Inspire and I started to put some real effort in and then I went to the NA meetings and got support through them heard that other people were clean from severe addiction so that got me going I started doing a detox in the community I kicked him out he actually went for me because I started doing I started doing my rattle off the gear and um I think he felt like he was losing control so he he liked to drink so he went for me and even though I was in a bad physical state he was in his like 60s so I was just able to punch him a few times and he just dropped up floor and I really get out but it weren't the end of him because I remember going into detox and I wanted to leave.

1:11:57I did leave at one point. I left and found him and then I went back. They gave me another chance. I went back and then I went to leave again because of the withdrawals. I just couldn't cope. And he came to pick me up to take me away from the detox. But the manager grabbed me and just hugged me and I cried. She knew who we were and what we were doing. and I stayed and I stuck it out and then went to a rehab. And yeah, just the journey started then of recovery. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work?

1:12:37It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. Real value shows up in reliability. You don't have to second guess. Like a set of Firestone all-season tires. They're designed to deliver confidence-inspiring wet weather traction and a quieter ride, no matter the road, season after season. Firestone all-season tyres For durability, you can count on Just like people count on you Firestone, always dependable Since 1900 And was there any cold turkey Or did you wean yourself off gradually?

1:13:33So the cold turkey came with the heroin But I was on methadone So that happened for like seven days And then I started to come off the methadone I was on 30 mil. There's a lot of people say methadone's worse than the brown. Oh, yeah. It took me about five months to come off the methadone. But then at the side of that, I was coming off pre-gabbling as well. So I was having two quite strong, powerful pharmaceutical drugs to come off. And that was brutal. It was really, really tough. And it went on for a full nine months. I don't think I've ever heard of a detox as long as that. But the doctor gave me too many pre-gabs, really.

1:14:16He shouldn't have prescribed me that many. But I know that I was hard work to deal with with the doctor. And how many years have you been clean now? I've been clean over seven and a half years, totally abstinent from everything. Booze? Yes, alcohol. I don't drink. I don't drink. I don't smoke anymore. You know, I try and eat as clean as I can. I'm pretty good at that. I'm good with my exercise. I do CrossFit. I didn't just land in CrossFit, though. You know what I mean? I left rehab, started going to the gym, and then there was a CrossFit programme called 180 Project, and they support people into CrossFit.

1:15:00So it's people with mental health and addiction issues. So I did that, and I still do that. I still got to the same gym. but yeah no I'm not no like athletic athlete swinging off bars I give it a little go and I am quite strong though and I was told to not lift with my leg but then I thought no I'm going to and someone said to me we're a chiropractor sometimes the over medicalised thing he said if you're feeling pain and stuff like that just shake off go to the side and then go back at it and that's what I do and I'm all right and what does day-to-day life look like for you Are you always this open and bubbly?

1:15:39I think so. You seem like you're in a good place. Yeah, I'd say so. Yeah, you don't seem traumatised. You seem like you're relieved that that's in the past. Yeah, and I think you can also get a lot of strength from your past. And I'm quite resilient. I'm quite fearless. And I think a lot of that has made me this way. So I can't, God, boy me, I've never been through this. It's something that I have to talk about 24-7. I don't. I get on with my life. You don't carry it with you every day? I wouldn't say so, no. I do have PTSD and I do have bad nightmares still. My dog's helped me with that. Have you got a business with your dog?

1:16:23I have my own dog business that I've just set up, yeah. No, I don't mean you and your dog have come into partnership, but... Well, he kind of is. His face is on the side of the van and it's called Joanna and Vinny's Canine. You can find his name on Companies House. Company director. Yeah, yeah. Oh, he's there. He's there. And he's quite well known. He's my dog, Vinny. And he's well known within the recovery community, within the CrossFit gyms. He's well loved and well liked. So, yeah, I wanted to just work with dogs. I've done other work in recovery, sport work and that, but I just find being with dogs is better for me and sort of set up my own little doggy business where I collect dogs, take them to a secure field for two hours and then drop them off back home.

1:17:08So that's what my day looks like. I have done some public speaking. I'd love to do more of that within schools. Prisons? I go into prisons. I go into the guys' prisons and the women's prisons. That's just done as part of 12 steps though. So carry the message to the addict who still suffers, basically. So you just give your time. I'm going, share your story, share the meeting. And then, yeah, and I see guys like who are from, who I've been in the prison and seen and they're now in the rehab and stuff like that. And, you know, people, I've been to the women's prisons and seen women I know in there.

1:17:50So, yeah, it's all really good stuff. It's really good stuff that I really enjoy doing. What about love? Have you got love in your life? I ain't got love in the life with a man I believe I did but I kind of outgrew him it was just hard work and I think I did feel a sense of love for him because you've got to trust somebody to love them yes and I think that's why the love kind of went because the trust went and the it felt very one-sided again like I was the parent and like I'm not in this world to babysit a man. I've done that most of my life. So I realised my worth and I let that relationship go, which is great because I've never done that.

1:18:37I've always stayed with really toxic men, abusive men. So I do feel like really empowered today, but I hope to find love with someone and find that true love where it's not toxic or abusive. Yeah, you're not going to shy away from it? No, I won't say so. You're going to lean into life now? Yeah, definitely. I can't not really. I'm here to live now, not to exist in that misery. And I feel like I live my life to the best of my ability today. And what does the future hold for you? And where can people find you? So people that have watched and listened to this on YouTube and Spotify and other platforms, where can they find you to follow the work that you're going to do?

1:19:25because I've got a feeling that you're going to really lean into life now. Oh, yeah. And I hope you get to do all the public speaking as well because people will only ever learn from people that have lived it. They can't read a book and learn about struggle and addiction and trauma and all the stuff you've been through. I think you now could go on and actually save a lot of lives. I just want to advocate for women as well, I think. What about men? No, no. What about bald men? Definitely not. Fuck them. Well, I'm not a man, so I mean, I always advocate for the guys, especially when they're sharing in meetings and stuff like that.

1:20:03I go into guys' prison, so I'm always there to support guys. But as a female, I need to be there to speak up for the women, especially the street women, because they get all the shit. The men don't, the punters don't, and the pimps don't. They get arrested, they get named and shamed. They're the ones that get assaulted. as I've just said in the whole, you know. And I agree. I agree. It's exactly what you should do. I was only joking. I know. No, I know. But I just want to. Some people watching won't, they'll miss the fact that I'm trying to make this lighthearted. Yes, I know. Of course. Have you learned about the internet now, now that you've been using social media accounts?

1:20:39There's a lot of fucking arseholes out there. Oh my God. Yeah, people will just take a little bit of a clip and then turn it into something. It's totally not. So yeah, I totally, I'm learning about the world of the internet. but I'm on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Joanna Warner, Joanna and Vinnie's canine crew, both on Facebook and Instagram. I think my Instagram account is Joanna Warner 121. Someone set it up for me years ago because I didn't know how to use social media. I'll put all your links in our description so people can find you just by clicking the link in this description on YouTube.

1:21:18Oh, amazing. And then I'm on LinkedIn. I need to say it properly. LinkedIn. Keep calling it LinkedIn. It's LinkedIn, isn't it? LinkedIn, yeah. I'm on there now as well under Joanna Warner. So, yeah, that's where people can find me. Is there anything you want to end this on? Any final word to anyone that's listening? I just hope that it gives people hope that, you know, you can live a really good life when you've been through all that chaos and trauma and street work and prison. and, you know, there is a life there for you to grab and to be able to do it clean and sober as well. I didn't think it were ever possible.

1:22:00I didn't think I'd ever be able to get a job. And now I've turned into this, I believe, confident, strong businesswoman who loves living life. You know, I'm not always full of traumatised thoughts and feelings. means yeah, I am triggered sometimes, as we all are. But I just want people to know that there's hope out there and there's the right support available for people to come out of all that darkness. Well, for me, I think this is what the internet should be used for. I mean, it's not used for it all the time. It's used for all sorts of stuff and I get wrapped up in it all. But if someone can share their story and it lands on the ears of people that really need it and you save one person or you give someone comfort, that's what it's all about.

1:22:52And you've given so much of yourself during the last hour and a half during this interview. And I'm very, very grateful that you're willing to do that. Hopefully it's made you feel a little bit lighter. I know it's going to help people at home. It's made me feel in a weird way uplifted that, you know, fucking the show must go on. Things can only get better. Your attitude controls your attitude. you've got a fucking great attitude and like, yeah, you seem like you're in a good place. So it's made me feel quite nice. So thank you. No, thank you for inviting me on. Well, I'll be rooting for you. So I'll be following your socials and like, I hope that everything works out.

1:23:30I hope Vinny becomes a dragon one day on, on the BBC or whatever Dragon's Den's on and you just keep on going from strength to strength, staying clean and living your best life. And hopefully one day you'll find love. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully. But at the moment I'm in love with my dog, Vinny. good and on that note it's been a joy thank you oh thank you so much cheers

1:23:57this episode is brought to you by ChatGPT hey it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast have you guys heard about ChatGPT work it's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects and when you need more than just answers give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro Plans. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's draw something loose.

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