I Kept My FATHER'S Baby: Stace Don

27:45So all this is kind of, it'll be a surprise to a lot of people listening because people just don't think these things happen out there because most people are protected because they have normal parents. I know only too well that it goes on and it's not nice and it has an everlasting effect. So are you all right to carry on? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you good? Yeah, I'm good. Okay, so when he raped you, was it in a bedroom, a car? No, it was in the front room and my sibling was upstairs and all I could think about was my sibling, you know, and didn't want anything to think yet. And then afterwards, he kind of just got up and left.

28:28And I was in a lot of pain, do you know? And I just tried to get myself upstairs. And then in the morning, obviously it was my 18th birthday, so my sibling was like, stay, it's like, happy birthday, this, that and the other. Like, come down, me and Dad have got your presents. And that is the hardest thing. And was that also your virginity, Tuck? Yeah. Okay, so that's more than I'd ever be able to comprehend. That's massive. The whole thing is beyond the pale. So from the first time he'd done that to you, and also if there's any terms that I'm using that you'd rather I switch to something else, I only sort of use graphic terms so people really get an understanding of what we're talking about here.

29:14Because a lot of stories get watered down and people like you don't get the praise you deserve because it isn't explained in its true graphic form. Yeah. So don't think I'm being insensitive. Yeah, no, no, I'm just fine. Okay. So what happened after the first time? Did it become more of a regular thing? Did you fight it or did you think it was normal? No, I fought it every time I fought it. Like the full thing, like completely like raping me was, that was quite a few times but it do other things in between and then like just like try me like he'd tell me to dress up girl he just sort of can go pub so he can parade him around as his girlfriend and stuff and all the time like just feeling really uncomfortable but if you said anything bad back to him it just like but you want me to be nice don't you and then if you did things he'd like turn military on you.

30:11So he'd have you doing like sit-ups over three chairs with my head back and you'd have to bring yourself forward. But if you didn't quite bring yourself up enough, it would just dig you in your stomach. So it was just always that constant fear that he could do whatever he wanted. And he would take you to the pub and parade you around in front of people. Yeah. And obviously he didn't introduce you as his daughter. He wanted people to think you as his partner. Yeah. Sick fuck. Because I know the prison sentence he got, which we're going to obviously come to. Yeah. At what stage did you think enough was enough?

30:49I found out I was pregnant. You found out you were pregnant by your father at what age? I was 18, yeah. Okay. And how did you find out you was pregnant? You skipped a period or you just felt different? No, I felt really poorly. So I told him I was going, because obviously I worked a lot out, I told him I was going to connections. and I didn't I went to the doctors and the doctors were asking me all these questions and I'm like no they're like you couldn't be pregnant I said no have you got a boyfriend no like are you having sexual activity no because I couldn't comprehend what was going on they didn't register and then they give me a pregnancy test and so I'm just walking back down the street and stuff and I walk past connections to get back to the house and I went in and I'm like reading the instructions and I've done this pregnancy test and it come back and I'm just walking down the street I'm like no no, I'm not, no, I'm not, this isn't real.

31:39And then, like, bad penny dropped and that was my reality. And up until that point, did your dad warn you not to repeat what was happening in the house outside of the house? Yeah, I weren't allowed to speak to anyone. I weren't allowed to speak to anyone. He took over my social media, which was just like my MSN and my college email. And every time I was on MSN, my mum thought I was speaking to her and a couple of my friends thought I was speaking to it weren't me, it was him. So he didn't try and make you feel like it was normal. He led you to, well, he kind of admitted that it was wrong, so it must remain a secret.

32:20No, he didn't admit it was wrong. He turned around and said, because he didn't bring me up, no one will know, and it's not wrong. It's only if he brought me up, as my dad, then it would be wrong. But because he didn't actually bring me up, it's not wrong. So we tried to normalise it. Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu is now streaming on Disney+. What are you waiting for? Hop on. The must-see galactic adventure comes home on Disney+. This is the way. Our only chance is to work together. I like this kid. Always wear your seatbelt. Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu, now streaming on Disney+. Read PG-13.

33:06Ouch. This knee is killing me. But I can't stop training. The marathon is in two weeks. Let's get on ZocDoc and find a doctor to take a look at that for you. Okay. Here's a review. Dr. Crowder really takes his time. No, I don't have time. What about Dr. Charles? His patients say he can help find a quick fix, and he's in network. Great, now we're talking. Book it. Booked. One mile down, 19 to go. Bring it on. You've got options. Download the ZocDoc app today. Wow. I've sat opposite a lot of people and not just on the podcast off. I mean, I've actually heard a lot worse from people off of camera because this is a tremendously brave thing to do.

33:48I don't think I've heard anything that nasty or insane in my life. I mean, he should be sectioned for the rest of his days. He belongs in Broadmoor, your father. I mean, should I stop referring to him as that? Obviously, it makes it easier for people to understand that. I just call him the man because he was the man from the park and I can't associate with him as that. So how did you approach the police, knowing that they failed you in the past? Because that must have been a big decision. Yeah, so when I was coming back from Connections and I just found out I was pregnant, I went in the house.

34:22And when I went upstairs, he was there and he was angry because I took longer than I was meant to. And he used to always do this anyway, so he'd grip me up by my throat and just pin me against his bedroom door, which is obviously at the back of the living room. and he went to punch me in the stomach. He'd just come out that I'm pregnant and he'd just dropped me to the floor and booted me in my head. And then the day after, he'd gone out. He said he was going fucking at a car, but he weren't. He was going meeting some women because he was always on women's chat rooms pretending to be a woman, but he weren't a woman.

34:52And then when he got challenged, whether he was a woman or not, he'd sit me or his ex-partner in front of the camera. So it all constantly looked like it was a woman, but he weren't. It was him talking to all these people. So we were meeting some woman off there, so I knew of a phone that he had in his bedroom and I rung the police, but I didn't tell him about the rape or anything. I just said he's assaulted me, because I knew it weren't just me anymore. And I went and met a policeman. We took pictures of my fingerprints on my neck and they went, I'll come back to the house. And I said, you can't.

35:21I said, you're going to come back there. You're going to leave. I'm not getting out of that house alive. I said, you need to ring my mum. So the police rung my mum. and then over the next couple of days like he'd be telling me that I have to get rid of the baby it's going to be disabled he was calling it all these different names um and then he was like well just kill yourself then start throwing me tablets at times he'd say he could kill me and tell everyone I travel back to olden and but I didn't make it and I'm thinking in my head like he actually could get away with this you know so I was just like I ended up trying to play a bit of again where I said I'd go back and have the baby, but once the baby's born, I'll go back to moving with him with the baby.

36:07And he bought it. So your dad was telling you to abort the baby? Yeah. But you decided to keep the baby? Yeah. That's a hell of a decision. Why did you decide to keep the baby that was your dad's? Because I knew what it was like to get rid of. Because I always got rid of and not cared about as a kid. I don't believe in abortions and I didn't see her as is. I saw her as mine and she said my life. Okay. So because of the neglect that you felt as a child, you thought you don't want to pass that down. No. Was there any part of you that thought that it may not be the best environment to bring a baby into?

36:51Was there any moment that made you think, I shouldn't go through with this? yeah I felt I've called myself selfish and everything you know and I feel like hated myself at times because I thought like am I bringing him in the world for selfish reasons and stuff but when I managed to actually escape the house because I was pregnant you know and he didn't want me to have the baby while I was there just in case because some DNA thing that come out in 2008 where once the baby's born they have to have the DNA thing he couldn't wait to ship me to my mum's but it's just once the baby was born then I'd have to go back so because she did she's in my life yeah so you've got a good relationship with your daughter now yeah no okay thank God for that we can come to that and that was just me playing devil's advocate by the way yeah no no I uh the right decision is the one that you made that was best for you if it's turned out for the greater good.

37:51But I've got to ask these questions. Yeah, no, I've got to troll. I have been trolled. Like last year when my book came out and newspapers, they don't always put the best headlines on, do they? So a lot of people trolled me, saying like I'm selfish. Why have I given birth to an inbred baby and all these different things? But this is why I'm speaking out about my story because I want to show awareness, you know, and cut stigma because I was a victim, but so was she, you know? and why shouldn't she have the best life yeah it's come with difficulties because i was naive i was young and i didn't realize the complexities that it would have you know i just in my head i just thought i was just gonna give her a better life than me you know and i'm gonna love her like i wanted to be loved and like you can kind of look after her how i wanted to be looked after um but it did come with complexities but that was also through the lack of support from services as well, do you know?

38:48It's insane that people have trolled you for that because no one other than you will ever understand the situation. No one. No one's got any right to judge on this one. No one. Ask questions by all means because everyone's going to be curious because it's such a rare case. How did your mum react when you told her that you were pregnant or did the police tell her or did your dad tell her? So I told my mum I was pregnant. Well, he actually told my mum I was pregnant so for me to get back to old him he was to ring my mum but obviously I knew that the police had already spoken to her so I was like please don't say anything you know otherwise it's game over here luckily she didn't but his story was to my mum was I'd gone to the South End Earth Shore I'd met a man called John Carson he got it from the England football players John Terry and Scott Carson because it was on telly at the time and he just put their names together I'll never ever forget I can literally see the TV while I'm sat here and I've come I've been falling poorly and I found out I'm pregnant so can I come can Lulu come and live with you so my mum's like yeah and obviously my mum had already had the phone call off the police my mum got rid of her abusive partner as well so she was like yeah so that was like the build-up to me getting out so your dad still thought he'd be able to keep this a secret and And accuse another man of being the father of your child.

40:12Yeah, he was adamant. He told me if I ever spoke out and he'd find me, he'd kill me, he'd kill my baby. Like, I had the threats left, right and centre. Like, I was feared. I'm still feared of him now, and it's been 18 years. Was there any friends that you had at the time you could confide in? No. He completely isolated you? Completely, I had no one. So how did the cat eventually come out of the bag that your dad was the father? So I'd gone through the pregnancy on my own, not telling anyone, scared. that was hard because I feel like everything's just been tainted you know like all the experience um he used to tell me as well that he's given me something that no one else would be able to give me and like all the way all the way through like my daughter it's like yeah it's because I could never have another child now because I'd never wanted to feel like an outcast you know so things like that sat on sat on me but um I got back I went through the pregnancy and every time I went to scans and stuff I'm like is she disabled it was embedded in my head that there was going to be something wrong with her complications but I didn't understand all that I was way too young I was like I weren't mature for my age at all still a child so I went through all that on my own and then my daughter I gave birth to my daughter and she was perfect and I was happy but I just was so adamant there was something wrong with her but no one knew what they were looking for you know so I couldn't tell them what they were looking for and then I'm expecting him to run through the hospital.

41:38The more time got on after I gave birth to her, I was expecting him to turn up at my mum's or something, you know, like, why didn't you come back to Essex? Because that was the game plan that I had to do. But he didn't. And then when my daughter was two, I was scrolling through Facebook and it just has another child with another woman. And it was a girl and I couldn't live with myself. I saw her picture and I was like, I have to pull her, please. So you didn't see him within that period of time So your dad wasn't there for the birth for example He just discarded you again Yeah it was here but he wasn't physically there Okay so you live with the fear of If I say this is his baby He's going to murder me You distanced yourself, you had the baby And then I mean what did it feel like knowing you Was carrying your dad's baby, do you remember That must have been In your head every single day It was because every time I went to the shop or something So I knew people around where I lived, but because I was isolated in Essex and then I'd gone through all that trauma and abuse, when I went back to my mum's, I'd just lived in my bedroom because every time I went out, everyone would be like, oh, who's the dad, who's the dad?

42:46It was just shit, you know, I couldn't get away from it. So I used to just die, but I'd find myself trying to count her fingers and her toes in my belly and stuff, just trying to convince myself that everything's going to be all right. And I didn't even know where they were going to be. And up until you saw your dad on Facebook with a new child, Was your mum convinced that the baby was somebody else's as well? Yeah. Okay. So the only way that was ever going to come to light was through you coming out with the biggest confession of your life. Yeah. Not that it's a confession, but it's a hell of a fact to face.

43:22So where did you go from after you saw that Facebook post of the man with a new two-year-old? Where did you go from there? Wrong the police. You wrong the police. good for you yeah and then they've come out did a statement and then they said that they had to come out and take Katie's DNA take my DNA take my mum's DNA but I like shut myself off from my mum because I knew the police were going to tell her why they're taking the DNA do you know what I mean and then next time I saw my mum it was like nothing happened like nothing had been said but she knew by this stage so this is why you're very conflicted as to yeah because I just felt really isolated and I just didn't know what was going on have you even made sense of it now?

44:03Not probably, no. How old are you now? I'm 36. So even 18 years down the line it's still... It's still all wrong and some things I'm still learning to process and trying to understand. So I'm assuming after you made your statement, they made the arrest. What did they arrest your dad for? Rape, incest. And there was another charge, but I can't remember. Okay, I mean rape and incest is enough. And did they remand him? No. So he got bail? Yeah, and he was still getting access to my other siblings while he was on bail. Unbelievable. Knowing that he'd already done this previous to another girl as well.

44:41Yeah. This is where the justice system is just, no wonder you didn't trust it. No. No wonder people don't trust it. That's horrific. But eventually it has to go to court. Yeah. Now, I've stood in the dock and testified against my father as well, so I know how that feels. so in your own words in your own time roll that out so i went to the court so it was uh april the 11th 2011 and it was supposed to be in chelmsford but the night before i got a phone call saying it had been a thingy'd rescheduled for basildon the same time so i went to basildon for 11 well for about 10 o 'clock the next morning through all the process because i was from olden and i had to travel back down to essex i didn't have no support for it i'd never met my barrister i didn't get no support for the whole the whole thing i was literally on my own even the build-up there was no support from anybody nothing i was supposed to have victim liaison involved but they only like rung me once so i've gone down like completely in the unknown and they've gone like the different um the thing is they said his name you know for the court case and i just broke down tried running out of the court my mum's friend who was there she gripped me and then i went and sat in this room in the court um and 11 o 'clock came and the barrister come in she went i've watched a video interview and stuff she said we're nearly there i said what do you mean she went he's 35 that he's gonna plead or something so i thought he's definitely not gonna plead you know like i knew what he was like he used to thrive the fact that no one's ever got him sent to prison and stuff okay so you thought he was gonna go not guilty yeah irrespective of dna evidence yeah yeah because he literally dog said that he denied it all the way up to the court i think he was just testing me to see if I'd turn up.

46:25And then two o 'clock came and they come back in. They said, right, we're 50 % there for him to plead. You can go and get some food from upstairs if you want, but just to warn you that he's walking around. So I was like, I ain't moving out of this room. Not a chance am I moving out of this room. I suppose because he wasn't reminded, he could come and go as he pleased. And when he was in the court, because with me, I was actually up in the dock and I was cross-examined. It made me feel like I was guilty of something. And he was right there, my dad, and they suggested that we have a barrier between us so I can't see him, which I refused and said, no way, I've been waiting for this moment for years.

47:03He's going to have to look me in the eye and face what he's done. Was there anything like that with you? He ended up pleading guilty at four o 'clock, but if not, then I was happy enough to stand trial, but I wanted the barrier because I am scared of him. But he pleaded guilty, but only doing my book did I realise that he did a plea bargain and that's why he pleaded guilty. But if push came to shove, you were prepared and you were brave enough to get in that dock. Oh yeah, I was standing up there, yeah. I needed to to protect my siblings and my daughter, yeah. Which I know that's exactly what you would have put it because you wouldn't have gone to those lengths.

47:39No, I was willing to do it. Obviously I was scared in my head but it weren't about me anymore. It was about other kids and I don't want anyone to go through what I went through. So he's pleaded guilty in the end? Yeah. And he got sentenced to how long? Seven years, do 3.5. He got sentenced to seven years for raping his own daughter and impregnating her. This is where the audience, this is where their jaw is going to hit the floor, as mine did when I got to that part of your story. I just, wow. So what was the plea bargain? How did he only get seven years? And he only served three and a half. Three and a half he served.

48:20So I got told it was down as rape and incest and only through doing my book it comes down to sexual activity with a child. I don't understand the laws and stuff but apparently it just knocks you off your sentence, I don't know. And I don't know how we got that, I do not know how we got that from the evidence that was there. And it's an absolute categoric fact because DNA doesn't lie. No. Was you in the room when the judge said, send him down? No, they won't let me. Could you view video link? No, they won't let me. So the news was just being relayed to you, so you was getting given hope little bit by bit by bit.

49:00And when you, I mean, because back then you probably didn't even think about the sentence, or did you? When they told me seven years, I thought it was justice, do you know? Because I thought seven years, I can get myself strong, do you know? My daughter would be like 10, like, yeah, it's not much older, but I've had them years with her, do you know? And I can prevent history from repeating itself because he was supposed to be the things for life so he's not allowed to speak to me or Katie indefinitely, do you know? So if I'm right, I'll protect her in that way. And then he was sentenced in the April and then in the August I got a phone call off the court, I asked someone to do with the court saying, just letting you know that he's getting day release to go and get access to the one-year-old sibling, the one-year-old sibling that I went to the police originally to protect.

49:51Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu is now streaming on Disney+. What are you waiting for? Hop on. The must-see galactic adventure comes home on Disney+. This is the way. Our only chance is to work together. I like this, kid. Always wear your seatbelt. Star Wars The Mandalorian and Grogu now streaming on Disney Plus Raid PG-13

50:22At ZocDoc we know being a healthy adult is like living in a video game. Every day has side quests, taxes, laundry birthdays, and just when you're leveling up, you have to book a doctor The insurance portal crashes, they put you on hold, your doctor doesn't take your plan game over We see you, so we made booking a doctor easy. Download Sock Doc. Search by specialty, insurance and availability. Book instantly, no cheap codes required. Find a doctor you love with Sock Doc. Has he tried to get access to your daughter? No. He's never tried to do that. Which I'm really grateful for, but I got told he could have done and he would have been granted it because when he got out of prison, he lived in Southend, but they shipped him over back to Manchester because that's where he said he wanted to be.

51:09And he's always told me that he always knows where I am and what I'm doing. He also told my social worker the same thing. And when he got sent there, because he lived in Manchester and I was only known to Udham Social Services, Manchester Social Services wouldn't have known my case, so they said he would have been granted it if he did apply. And there was nothing I could do about it. Did he try and contact you from prison? No. No. So no contact whatsoever? No, when he got out of prison, he was getting with women, not too far from my house and getting their daughters to ring me up, threatening me, while he stood on the other end of the phone laughing.

51:44When I reported it to the police, they said, well, you were actually on the phone talking to you, so all we can do is log it. Do you know what he's doing now? Yeah, just living life. Free as a bird? Yeah. Has he had any more kids? I don't know. Don't know. I don't know. Do you live too far from each other? Well, he lived in Manchester and I lived in Uldum, And then when my book came out and the MEN did a newspaper article, he was moved under police protection back down south. By law, are you allowed to name him? Yeah, he's named in my book. He's convicted, so he can be named. So his name's Nigel Taylor, and he changed it to Marcus Halliwell.

52:21He changed his name the day that he got sentenced. OK, and he's living whereabouts now, do you think? Essex. Well, I'm glad that you're allowed to legally say who he is, because that man needs to be a marked man. And every parent within 100 mile radius should know who he is and steer very clear and make sure your kids stay away from him. Let's go back to how you then dealt with that afterwards because also I know what it's like after the trial. I sat there and I'll be honest with you, I even questioned myself. Once it was all done, it was surreal. I started having the wildest of thoughts. was it really as bad as I thought?

53:02Did I do the right thing? Should I have done that? I've just put my own father in jail. I now know that it was the right thing to do and actually it was a lot worse than what people will ever know and I think it's my greatest achievement ever and I would say it's certainly one of yours other than being a great mum to your daughter because you prevented that man from abusing others. Although it was only three and a half years, that's three and a half years you've saved people's lives but how did you deal with it and process it afterwards? Does that make sense? Yeah, it does because I used to question like, have I actually gone through all that?

53:35Did it happen to me? Am I that what? That I've just created all this story in my head. And it does, it makes you really doubt yourself because so much just happens and your brain struggles to process it that you just can't puzzle all the pieces together on why and understand it. And obviously then I've got my daughter and that was the reality of my situation. you know like yeah that did happen you know and it was really hard. Well abuse rewires your brain yeah it literally rewires the entire way you think and process things so making sense of stuff takes a lot more work than it would do say an unfractured brain yeah so I get that totally so how did you have you survived life from then till now and I use survive because you have had to survive because you've not had a normal life no it was hard so like from one years old I had my daughter living with me before that she stayed at my mum's for a little bit I was living at my mum's at first but then I struggled I really struggled it was like I went from overprotective to just couldn't grasp everything what was going on and then trying to run my own house and just wanting to be loved by my mum myself and just wanting to have my foster parents to just wrap me up in cotton wool again and not have all this responsibility you know and it was a lot and then I got my daughter, she was living with me and we was fine and then obviously the court case, that happened and then services knew about it and the school, I crumbled in a school meeting and ended up breaking down to the school because I just couldn't manage the situation, you know.

55:11I gave my daughter the best that I could give her, you know, but mentally it damaged me and that was showing in day-to-day life so sudden bangs, sudden knocks, like people just walking past the house and I'd be feared and my daughter had to watch my reactions to all that so that became her normality which isn't the best, you know. And I was crying out for services to help me, like please help me. And then a social worker come out and she went, well you're asking us for all this help but your case is the only case in the UK so do you want us to use your daughter as a guinea pig? That fucked me up.

55:50That's more pressure. That really, that ruined me because I just felt like I was supposed to have all the answers and I had none. What you're explaining there is complex PTSD, isn't it? Yeah. Have you been to therapists if they diagnosed you? Yeah, I've got complex PTSD and I get the visuals as well. You're allowed to explain the visuals? Yeah, so basically they come in different stages. So sometimes at night I can be content, I can be chilled and next minute I can see him watching me sleep. other times I can hear something in the night and I'll go to check it out and the ghost of him is stood on my stairs and I have to walk through the ghost of him then there was another time my daughter she'd gone to the shop but she hadn't come back so I'd gone to one shop and the shop keeper said I've sent her up to co-op because we did like um but I think the card machine wasn't working so she couldn't buy what she wanted to buy so she's gone to co-op and I'm running through the valley because I never really let her out of my sight but like she'll be coming a teenager when this happened and I got in the valley and I walked I got to the point where I could see the car park and Clara's day like it was completely real I seen him holding my daughter's arm and walking away from me out of the car park and I just collapsed on my knees started crying like completely broke down on my own in the valley and next minute i've got up dusted myself off like numb like a zombie just walking towards the club and my daughter comes out and none of that had really happened that is it's scary it is like really scurrying that that's the reality of what i see on different things and then other times it can just be like even talking about things like now when i'm when i mention stuff my head goes back into them situations so i can describe everything, what's going on in them rooms.

57:48A lot of people would have heard the term flashbacks but not really they're not really able to comprehend a flashback unless they've had one. It's a bit like describing anxiety to somebody that's never had anxiety. How do you explain it unless you've actually felt it and experienced it yourself? Do you suffer with anxiety? Really bad. Yeah, anxiety can just take off on my body within minutes. Did you ever self-soothe with drink and drugs? I've tried going out partying just for the distraction, thinking like you've got friends and stuff like that. But I've never really been consistent with it because I've always, like even medication, when the doctors have offered me and prescribed me medication, I'm always scared that it'll make me just relax too much that I'll take my eye off the ball and the next minute I'd wake up and my daughter wouldn't be there.

58:33So it's like I'm constantly in fight mode or flight mode. There's alarm bells every day where I have to be on the ball to make sure that me and my daughter are safe. and that's 18 years later. I tell you what, you're a hell of a lot stronger than you think. I've self-sued for years. I've turned to the dark side to block out the noise. So I know it's a very easy, it's a quick fix. Okay, I'll take that, I'll drink that, I'll sniff that, whatever it may be, that blocks out the noise, that shuts off the pain. So the fact that you didn't go down that route, fucking hats off to you. Is that why you say your daughter saved your life?

59:10she saved my life because she got me out of the house because if I wouldn't have got pregnant I don't even think I'd be alive I honestly don't and do you like being a mum? yeah love it yeah I do like being a mum for years and years though I questioned whether I was worthy of being a mum and whether I deserved to be a mum because of the situation and stuff like that and whether I was selfish some people can say about me but now I'm coming to terms with it and it has been 18 years and different things and I literally have the most amazing daughter, do you know? And yeah, I do. It's took a lot because it's not just been like natural and planned.

59:48Like my pregnancy with teenage, you know, her growing up was challenging and it was the reality of what I'd been through and everything like that. So it's not been the easiest, but she's mine, do you know what I mean? I give birth to her, I'm a mum. And that's what frustrates me with some of the trolls because on some of the posts, even recently, they turn around and say oh so he's the dad and the granddad and you're the sister but what automatically makes him the dad and the granddad because he hasn't been there he hasn't picked her up he didn't do the school runs he didn't love her he didn't care for that like a dad isn't just a title do you know like you have to give that child something to earn that title but I'm a sister even though I give birth to her I've given protective home I've saved her I've given stability routine and love like and I'm literally trying to justify myself being a mum to my daughter that I've raised who's 18 years old who wants to speak out as well over him just being given the dad and granddad title you know a lot of people use the phrase everything happens for a reason have you do you adopt that philosophy yeah so do you think this happened for a reason yeah I don't know what reason but I do believe like even if it's just for me to stand up and show awareness and speak out you know that that since doing my blog and speaking out like that's become my purpose and I kind of find the strength and the self-worth in myself once I feel like I've done something good for other people and help someone else, you know, because I don't ever want anyone to feel so lonely how I felt like 14 years I was shut behind closed doors trying to be a mum in a world that I just didn't know what was what, observing other people trying to learn normality, you know, and it's just, it has, it's been difficult and I just don't want anyone to feel the pain that I felt and just be a person for people that I needed.

1:01:32And is that literally what has inspired you to write My Girl? Is so that other people don't have to feel the pain that you did? Yeah. What a lovely reason to do that. And what about relationships since then? Have you struggled with trust issues? Trust issues, yeah. So I have relationships. So I moved to Northern Ireland to get married, but that relationship's broke down, you know, unfortunately. Just not everything lasts forever, do you know? um but yeah I have I do have trust issues and I have a lot of self-doubt in myself like I don't I don't have no confidence I don't feel worthy um and I just do it is just one of my struggles daily because I think all these people that were supposed to love me like my mum my dad my foster parents you know they shut the door on me once I had to leave their house and I got I've stopped from seeing them.

1:02:26And then I've lost a lot of people throughout my life. I just think if all them people who were supposed to love me can't love me, how's someone else meant to? I don't know, it's a weird thing to do, kind of polishing your own halo, not that you're doing that. But is there any part of you that thinks I'm incredible? No. Nothing at all. You know, I've had six foot two men walk in and out this studio and they're not even talking about trauma. They couldn't quite go ahead with the podcast. And we've had to call it a day because they lost their nerve or they got nervous or they got anxious and they pulled the plug last minute, which is absolutely fine.

1:03:04You've got a real story to tell. You're not talking about the prison that you've served or the people that you've beat up. Yours is about as real and raw as it gets. And you've sat here for over an hour spilling your heart out. Does that not make you feel in the least bit incredible? No, I just don't have to fit it out with someone. Well I hope it makes you feel even just a little bit incredible And what about the future? The future Optimistic? Yeah I've always been one to try and set goals and achieve Because I've always wanted to be a better person than anyone from my past You know so I've trying to At the minute I'm creating programmes I've created three so Parenting, Free Trauma Safe, Seen and Heard which is about empowering children To try and help them protect their safe space well enlighten them on the signs of grooming do you know healthy unhealthy boundaries the healthy and unhealthiness of the reality of social media do you know and when your parents are at work or your guardians are at work don't just go home and jump online and speak to you don't know so it's about giving them that them tools to be able to help and protect the safe space um which it could have helped me and even show them signs and things that would show that something's going on with someone else, you know, so they can try and help other people around them.

1:04:22And then I've got one for grieving for the living, which is about obviously me losing my foster parents. It's just left a massive void there. And then my daughter, she wants to help me do a three-part programme to help anyone in mine and her situation. So that's good that your daughter's playing a part in the whole... You've got a support act within the support act now, haven't you? Yeah. A support group within the support group, should I say. yeah how nice is that and as a cautionary tale who failed you the most the whole system starting from social services like they knew they was aware of what what his capabilities was his his obviously his sentences before and stuff and they still allowed me to go there without one check the first time I lived with him when my mum's partner dropped me off there after me begging them to put me in a children's home they didn't come to the house and check like they took me out of a loving healthy home where they they could see that I was thriving and then within four weeks I was having hospital visits my behavior had completely changed my behavior around them had completely changed and they just failed to or choose to ignore the signs that I was showing you know to say that I wanted to go back home but couldn't openly speak out because they would only ask me questions in front of my mum and her partner which I didn't feel comfortable doing you know and then the police like they didn't support me even through the court case and different things like that and um the probation they offered me like some sort of like camp thing for me and my daughter to go to when Kady was seven um he just got out of prison and I was up for going you know to try and build our bond you know because of the struggles and misprocessing the trauma and everything else like it did it did like tar it a little bit you know because I was struggling so we was going to go to that and then literally a week before I was supposed to go out and go to this camp you know for me to try and build this bond with my daughter and learn how to be a mum as well because it was all I didn't it didn't come like naturally because I didn't know I had nothing to go off um and they said I didn't fit criteria because it was three years after he'd been sentenced so I didn't fit criteria and I just thought that that in itself like is a joke because how can I not fit criteria?

1:06:38You're telling me I'm the only case in the UK. You're just shutting me behind closed doors. I even begged them to section me. After I had to tell my daughter the truth at 13 years old, I begged them to section me because I couldn't say it no more. You felt like you were losing your mind? I was losing my mind. He was taunting us. He was hanging around my house. I was constantly ringing the police and no one would help me. Everyone's saying, oh, we'll go get... Like, this fear is real. This is not... I'm not messing about, you know. And, yeah, I just asked them to section me and they just said, we know you won't do anything because you'll do right by your daughter.

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1:08:05on. You've got options. Download the ZocDoc app today. What advice would you give anyone listening that's in the grip of abuse at the moment? Because a lot of people that are being abused at home, they turn to YouTube channels for some kind of hope. They source conversations like this to try and work out what to do next. What advice would you give them? Speak out because silence is a false sense of security. And while you start silent, you're giving them more control. And I've learned that the hard way and who do you who do they turn to anybody they possibly can like there is there is people that I wish I would have spoke out because now I've spoke out with my blog and stuff like even though like services can fail there is systems out there that like can help like the Maggie Oliver Foundation like they was brilliant with me um and since I've done my blog and I've found purpose I know that I'm not alone you know and that's given me the strength to even be able to tell my story on a ride of things.

1:09:04Yeah, I think what we'll do is we'll put some links in the description. I'm going to put links to your book, to your social media pages, because I know that you want to carry on influencing and supporting people that are struggling and being abused. So I'm going to put all of your social medias in the description. I'm going to put a link to My Girl. So go and check that out. It's a great way of sharing support. And like and subscribe to the channel also, so I can keep bringing you these conversations because you're never going to, these are the sort of stories that the mainstream just don't want you to hear because they'd like you to think this stuff doesn't happen and it does and it's harrowing and people like you need to be heard and you need to have your say.

1:09:44And final question so we can end it on something chirpy because I'm sure your daughter will be watching this. Tell me something you love about your little girl. She's just amazing. She's incredible. Literally, like, I'm proud of her. I'm proud of everything that she's, like, pushed through, you know like the complexities and the challenges that have been put on her do you know even with my mental health and my struggles even though like she wasn't there when I went through the trauma and abuse like she's had to deal with the aftermaths of that do you know what I mean and she's like just she's just always there for me she's the most kind loving girl ever um and she's doing well in college and she wants to work and honestly like yeah massively anything else you want to say without me probing you anything you feel like you just want to get off your chest or just let people know complete free reign without me teeing you up just tell my story like to show awareness and cut stigma do you know like i just want to turn my negatives to positive and try and be a difference for other people and i know that my questions are very invasive and we spoke about this off camera that we're going to be as as raw and real as possible if i've asked really personal questions.

1:10:54It is what the podcast is about, is to get people's story out and also just let the audience know the magnitude of it. For me, as hard as it's been, it's been rewarding because I know this is going to help so many people. I hope you feel a little bit lighter and I'm also very grateful that you chose to share your story with me and I wish you nothing but the best in the future and I can't thank you enough for raising awareness and letting other people know that they're not alone. yeah no thank you and thank you for having me as well it's a pleasure stay strong keep doing what you're doing yeah good health