Leaving The Marines, Jailed For 10 Years & Living With Tommy Robinson

27:52Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. So I didn't think it'd be a big issue for me getting out. I wouldn't miss it. I didn't really care about, you know, I'll start talking like a normal human being straight away.

28:34But it was the complete opposite. I also, I was very aware that lads struggled when they left. But I thought it was only the lads that went and taught. It was only the lads that had PTSD. And don't get me wrong, they do massively. But I think what's often not spoken about is the fact that it isn't just about PTSD. It isn't just about, it's about losing. there's like a grieving for this really intense thrilling thing that you do with lads that you will never forget that will be your best friends forever that understand you in a way that almost no one else will and when that all disappears whatever underlying issues or uh overlying issues you have they start they start coming out right so i was like well i'm not gonna have any problems because i never fired a shot in anger but i started to i started to right and i lost my away essentially and I was trying I was getting jobs but they were I couldn't keep them because they were just awful boring nothing gave me a thrill I was back in looting for like six months I hated that um yeah it just so then I was looking for quick fixes because nothing else was really working I think the problem is I was looking at it like I want something that gives me something the way that the marines gives you but that's not going to happen so you need to be realistic or find that thing so I ended up moving up north because I knew something up in Liverpool where because I knew a lot of lads from Manchester and Liverpool from who I'd served with.

29:57And a lad I'd served with was... I mean, I don't... When I talk about criminality and that, I don't necessarily give too much detail because there's other people involved. But I started being around it and it was money to be made. It's thrilling. I was curious. I thought I could do anything. People generally, for my first person's expression, tend to like respect me so I feel like yeah this this is something I could do um the people I'm familiar with are doing it it's not alien to me because I'm from Luton so I know people already in it I've seen it before and what was it drug importation no so to be honest at the start it was mostly like weed really growing weed that kind of thing getting getting rid of weed from one place to the other you know making drinks here and there and that continued for years the imputation thing was actually such a short snapshot of it so yeah i was committing crimes for quite a while but in my mind it wasn't that serious because it was weed but i mean like there's still serious things that happen around me and there was quite a bit of it we've grown up so did you progress from weed though to the white yeah so it was like a progression thing but it was such a short period kind of but essentially uh a window of opportunity opened up which was this particular conspiracy and I was, you know, trusted enough and stuff like that to sort of give a helping hand and what I would get from it seemed to be reasonable.

31:29You know, I'd get a seat at the table when I needed it, that kind of thing. What was the details? You don't got to give anybody else's name away. What was the full story? So through different connections and whatnot, we just had made friends with some Moroccans from a European country, essentially. And, yeah, we just ended up sort of going over there. And they could give us what we needed, basically. So it just became an importation thing, yeah. Which was Charlie? Charlie, yeah, it was Charlie, yeah. What sort of volume? I don't know what I want to say. You've seen the public the money, isn't it?

32:12Not, well, I was done for 50 kilos, right? and Encro, I think, was a three or four month snapshot. So, you know, do the math. Did SA got caught through the Encro? Yes, it was through the Encro, which is not what the paper said. If you ever read the article, or if anyone's read the article, so Liverpool Echo were on the front page of. Most of the large media newspapers also posted the same story online. Most of it was the same. And they were all saying the reason we got caught was because, so we were posting it. I mean, if anyone knows anything about this world, it's like transport and it's on lorries and all this kind of stuff.

32:57But we were posting it, which is a very, well, it's not new now, but it's a growing thing, people posting it back. And these companies can't control it. It's just, you know, the amount of drugs gets posted, that was crazy. And when Encro fell down, they found out about some addresses that we were using. So the police obviously made these raids. And then for whatever reason, on one of the addresses, they didn't wait long enough for the drugs to turn up. They did for another address, so they got some. They then left. I saw it happening from a distance. I obviously didn't return for a long time. So the TPD driver turned up and then delivered it next door as they do.

33:37And the next door neighbours had it for like a number of months. And then once they realised no one was coming back, they opened it. and it was disguised in Lego Duplo. Like, you know, for kids, it even had like bits of like large Lego on top of it. They decided to re-gift it to like their niece or their nephew or something like that for their birthday. And yeah, I don't know how I imagine it like this. They gifted it to the kid. One of the parents opens it for the kids and a brick of Charlie falls out, like a whole entire brick. And then they realise there's five other ones at home. The story is that they told the, police about it and yeah but I found out about that when I was already in prison and it happened because they made the raid and didn't wait for it but in the paper they made that that was the reason that we were arrested we're the dumb criminals who thought that they could import drugs they couldn't even be bothered to turn up for I don't know a 250 grand whatever it was 300 grand at the time parcel of drugs and so it got of the next door they didn't try and find it for six months and then somehow it gets which is just ridiculous it's just pure sensationalism so they ran with that story even though the only reason they even knew about the dress in the first place was because of EncroChat so our only mistake was using EncroChat which by the way if you didn't have Encroed at that time like no one would work with you that was kind of like your not your way in but it was you needed that do you know what I mean?

35:03What did it feel like when you got sentenced to 10 years? I was over the moon because I thought it was going to be worse yeah Really? Yeah, because my barrister was like, you know, I said best case scenario, he said nine on a good day. Worst case scenario, I think he said like 12 or 13 or 14 or something like that, I can't quite remember. So obviously you just expect the worst and hope for the best. I was thinking I'm going to get like a 13, 14 here. And I ended up getting 10 years. And I just broke it down and my head just, you know, compartmentalised it like I did basic training. You know, always look as far ahead as you need to.

35:39And I was like, all right, cool. So that's five years. I found out that with three years left, you can go to DCAT. So I had like 18, 19, 20 months till DCAT. So I had to behave till then. I'm going to go to a new jail, blah, blah, blah. You know, get a job there. I always worked in the gym, whichever job everyone wants. I did well there. I trained like a maniac. I was fit as a fiddle. Started learning stuff, started education. Oh, now I'm at DCAT. Now I'm going to try to get to uni properly. So I just compartmentalised it. And it came round. Now I'm here. Did you have any problems in there? Yeah, listen, the politics and all that in jail is just round the corner, mate.

36:16Well, it's constant, and then the problems from it are just always round the corner. But nothing notable. Nothing I didn't handle with either a bris speaking to or just a bit of diplomacy. For the most part, I was quite liked. Not because I was feared or anything like that. Just the fucking thing I'm a nice geezer, really. Do you know what I mean? So the bird was quite easy? If Carlsberg did birds, mate, mine was it. Really? Yeah. The jails I went to, I went to H &P, Burwin, Altcourse. Compared to your Waltons and your Strangeways and Forest Banks and Bedford's and Pentonville's, nothing compared.

36:50And you just educated yourself the whole time? Pretty much, yeah, yeah, yeah. That doesn't mean to say that there wasn't bad things that happened. I mean, the alarm probably went off every day, but Burwin's like 2 ,000 prisoners, you know what I mean? So, yeah, the people were up to no good, and, yeah, there were drugs being sold. It was jail, but in comparison to other places, there were still gripes. I hated the officers for the most part. I just thought they were just bullies and manipulators, and they didn't really give a shit. Did you clash with anyone in there? I clashed with officers quite a few times.

37:24I only clashed with lads a couple of times, but it wasn't really about me. It was kind of not letting people take the piss out of people who couldn't defend themselves. but the problem is you show a bit of weakness in jail and people will just jump on it because everything is of value, right? So if you've got something that people want and you give them a window of weakness, they're going to, they won't jump on it by like straight punch in the face but it's like a incremental thing and then when they realise they're safe enough to be a twat about it, they will. So for the most part, it was just things like not letting people who I was padded up with or liked get bullied really but sometimes put me in a firing line but not really because I nipped it in the bud straight away either by just giving them a brisk talk or being diplomatic.

38:04And because I knew most of the lads on the wing and they had something about it, they were like, well, that's not worth our thing because no one's going to defend us in that. You know what I mean? It's all a game, right? And you just have to know how to play it. And that's it, really. And did you get released early due to Keir Starmer's early release scheme? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'd imagine you was delighted. But on a whole, what did you think about that? If he was an outsider looking in and you can see Keir Starmer letting drug dealers free earlier than scheduled. Yeah, I'm very pragmatic about my opinions.

38:40I can easily say I was over the moon because it benefited me greatly, but at the same time I can understand why the average citizen who has been promised that the courts and the law will give people the right punishments and carry those punishments out like they have promised to do, I can understand why people are upset about that. but since I've been through the justice system myself that's the least of your worries mate it's a fucking shit show do you know what I mean the law I mean you know British law and common law that stuff is for a long time has been like the pride of the pride of Britain because of how we showcase it against the world and how it differs to the way that other courts and stuff act but I don't think that's the case anymore I mean even speaking to my solicitor I'm embarrassed because I'm really inquisitive So when I'm talking to them, I'm like, okay, but what about this?

39:27What about that? And they're like, even they're saying it, I'm paraphrasing, but that is a shit story and it doesn't make sense. And lots of things aren't fair. And these are people that are working within the system, but their job is to just know how to work the system, not to change it. So it really shocked me at how, I mean, put it this way, I was told what you get could depend on what judge you have. Does that sound right? Does that sound like a law system that is based on fairness? And not fairness just to the person who's standing in the dock, but fairness to the rest of the people who are voting, taxpaying people.

40:06So how did you find out you was getting released early? Did you get a knock on the door saying, guess what, you're out? No, it was rumours. So there was like, I don't know where the rumours came from, probably from an officer or something. There was a lot of rumours circling around. A lot of the lads who had been in a while, been in and out of jail a long time was like, I'm not listening to that. We always hear nonsense That it never comes true But I was like Well I get that But the fact of the matter is There is a prison crisis In terms of space Stuff like that So There's only one way to fix that And if this rumour is circling As Excuse me As big as it is It has to happen And it did I probably found out Six No I heard of the rumour Six months before I was released And then When I found out It was a real thing I was probably out within two months which was actually difficult for me because I had all these plans that I was incrementally putting in place in order to make my transition into the real world seamless and all of a sudden I had to get everything sorted straight away it was bloody stressful I didn't have a place at the uni properly didn't have anywhere to live I didn't have my student finance in place I didn't have any of these things and like luckily because I was going on leave every day to uni I was able to be proactive enough to sort it out.

41:25So had you planned in your mind whilst you was in jail what you wanted to do once you'd come out? Yeah. Which was entering to journalism? Yeah, I mean, originally it was just study. And then it was like, okay, what can I study? And then it was like, well, what can I study that I like that's going to get to me and give me a job, right? Because at first it was like things I was interested in, history and whatever else. And I was like, well, what can I do with that? Like, you know? so then I studied like a foundation course at Open University in prison because it was the closest thing to like journalism and then I found that you could go to uni once you got to DCAT which is open prison where you can go and leave and go to go to work so I just waited for that to come in so to get to DCAT get you know the green light to be able to go home and go to leave the site basically and then yeah I there was they did an open day at the prison actually Oxford British University and I yeah loaded myself onto it was a part time basis but you went there every day because you could only study at uni because you couldn't have your laptop because of security and stuff how long did you serve out of the 10 so I did four years so what's that you got released a year early a year early bang on yeah yeah because it went from 50 % to 40 % so it's 10 % a year yeah and before we finish off with the with the journalism ambition that you've got how did you end up living with Tommy Robinson for a month well basically we went to the euros in 2016 uh and we drove a camper van out there and essentially he is a mutual friend of mine and he said do you want to come to the euros this was 16 we know the whole marseille thing and all that nonsense uh and i was man i'm always up for an adventure you know what i mean i like footy so i was like yeah sweet let's go and tommy was the other friend that he was going with and we drove there in a camera van.

43:17That was pretty much how it happened. I mean, I've known who he is even before. Obviously, you know, the rest of the country did because I'm from Luton, but that was how it happened. An all-new season of the Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. Four years ago, we were just making TikToks. But it feels like there are no friendships left in MomTalk. You act like you're better than everyone. You're not. I can't trust anyone in this group. She's just dead to me. there's so much the public doesn't know watch the new season of the hulu original series the secret lives of mormon wives now streaming on hulu and hulu on disney plus for bundle subscribers terms apply this episode is brought to you by chat gpt hey it's bill simmons from the bill simmons podcast have you guys heard about chat gpt work it's the new way to use chat gpt for bigger multi-step projects and when you need more than just answers give chat gpt work access to your apps and files and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports.

44:20Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plans. Did you have any preconceptions of what he might be like before you met him? Yeah, because again, like a lot of the lads I knocked about with, I mean, everybody knows, like everybody knows who he is. You know what I mean? Like whether you're white, black, or Asian, like you're aware of who he is. I remember seeing him outside boozes when I was walking past, I was walking through town and stuff. And a lot of the lads that I'm friends with knew him because they're from that part of Luton, like the part of Luton that he's from.

44:51And once you spent some time with him, did you see him as the racist that the mainstream media has perceived him to be? I don't think I ever saw him as how the media portrayed him to be. I mean, we just spoke about how the media portrays things in terms of my story, right? So I'm always dubious about anything that's said about anyone at any point. And because I know the story of how the whole thing started. if you're from Luton right it was the Royal Anglians marching through town and all that and you know and then you know people were sort of protesting against them and and then that's how the whole kind of thing started so I was aware that like what he was essentially defending was the British military's right to march for a town where we're allowed to come from which is something that I would also agree with right um I also know that Tommy Robinson has grown up around in Luton and around black and Asian people the entire time and at that point before that thing happened with the Royal Anglican there was he was never a race mate there's lads I know like older than me who are black lads and stuff that were his friends and I knew them to be his friends stuff like that um I mean you could argue he's prejudiced against Muslims particularly he'd probably admit to that to be honest so you know um but the whole racist thing i mean what is what is a racist i mean like what's the definition my definition of someone who's racist is that someone who's prejudiced against somebody for their race which is a genetic code right religion isn't a race or think that the color of their skin makes them more superior than you because you've got a different color yeah exactly have you ever witnessed any of any of those signs with Tommy?

46:31Honestly, no. No. But this isn't, and this isn't, mate, I will defend or offend anyone in the name of truth and I've never seen that, no. And what was the month like with him? Maybe just having a laugh like I do with any of the lads from Luton, yeah. Just a normal bloke? Just having a laugh, yeah. And what are your views on him? I think any man or anybody can look at somebody who takes what they believe and defends it to their utmost to something that's noble, right? Regardless of whatever it is. And it's obviously not been easy. But I don't always know if he's going about it the right way, in my own opinion.

47:13But we all make mistakes, right? I think the thing I like about anything he's ever said, and the problem here is I don't actually watch anything. I know the guy, so I'm not really interested about the videos he does and all that kind of stuff. Like, man, I'm too busy living my own life. I just know him as the bloke that I that I met and the name that I knew he was before before that point right so really I don't even know that much about it other than the fact that I'm from Loon but I know that he is championing sort of like British values um patriotism and patriotism for me I think for a lot of people means nationalism but that's not what it means for me sort of a lost and broken sort of working class that hasn't been represented by anybody including the left that's supposed to represent them which because that's what they're created for and he's like being trying to be a voice for that and I see issues with that I see a lot of sort of white working class people who for maybe a fault of their own or not have issues that no one seems to care about right my belief is that all working class people probably have the same issues and should probably come together and have a conversation about what the next move is, right?

48:24That's my own opinion. But I don't know how useful the whole Muslim argument is in general. I'm not saying that there aren't issues. I'm not saying that there's a theological argument or whatever else. I just don't know if that's what he should lead with. Not because whether things that he's saying is true or not, I don't know if that's the right way to get people on board. but I do think another issue is with any person who is a public figure and controversial on any side of the coin is that the state, the government, the police, they're so worried about civil unrest that they do things that they probably shouldn't do and allow to do to silence people and I think that's a far more interesting story about him than any of the other stuff about you know what he believes about Muslims or what he believes about that group of people because essentially i think that the vision has been helped that like people like you know you know andrew tate i know they're different problems but andrew tate tom romerson they exist not because they came up with the idea they exist because there's a material problem within society and they are a um they are fall out of that they are not the people who invented the things that are necessarily being said so that means there's a problem so we should look at that so what you do with these people, even if you disagree with them, you ask them how they got to that point in the first place.

49:48What have you seen? What are the issues? Why do you feel like this? And even if you disagree, you now understand them and maybe you can find a solution. But what they do instead is they're so worried about what's going to happen if these people are allowed a platform. And we know that from the debate, because that's what the protesters were saying, that people shouldn't be allowed a platform. That I think these people get disenfranchised. They become martyrs whatever cause that they're talking about and actually if your job is to not if your job is to not let Tommy Robinson be a bigger figure pushing against them is the wrong thing to do and that's exactly what they've done right so um I think that there's a massive conversation to be had around all of these things that we're not having and it's like even the debate the other day as interesting as it was and as funny as it was at times and that kind of stuff I don't know if that's the right debate and the right style of having these conversations.

50:42This, just for people watching and listening, this is the Oxford Union debate that you're talking about. And what the debate was, should the West be suspicious of Islam? That was a debate. And how do you think that went? The people that said that we should be suspicious versus the people that said we shouldn't be suspicious. How did you think that ended up? Well, I think that, so the vote, I stayed for the vote and the vote was we shouldn't be suspicious. but I am suspicious of the fact that that vote was probably made because people are ever fearful of having any other decision or they're just so attached to the whole virtue thing around it.

51:17But my problem with that, I mean, I'm part of the Oxford Union, but my problem, and debate's great and it's a great starting point, but I think we need more deliberation. You know how that voting system worked, didn't you? Yeah, through the thing. So just for people, for context, there's a doorway and there's a poll put between the middle of the doorway. And if you were in favour of one side, you would walk through the left. And if you was in favour of the other side, the right. And it just so happened to be that if you was in favour of not being suspicious of Islam, you'd walk through the left-hand side.

51:47And if you was in favour of being suspicious of Islam, you'd walk through the right-hand side. Two things here. I walk through the left-hand side, and I am suspicious. So did Lawrence Fox. So did plenty others, because they didn't get the memo that that was how they were going to do the voting system. and when you walked to the door, there was a man standing in the right-hand side of the doorway. So most people naturally walked through the left-hand side. Now, I was there and I can tell you now, if I wasn't suspicious of Islam before, that debate would have made me suspicious. Now, you tell me if I've got this wrong.

52:17People gave a decent argument as to why they should be suspicious and the people defending the faith's suspiciousness, all they'd done was deflect, smear the speakers and didn't, well some people on their own side said that this debate's been completely derailed because all you've done is smear the opposition you haven't given the the public gallery any reason why they shouldn't be suspicious so that result i know for a fact because i was there was a complete scam by the time i walked through that guy wasn't there but it wasn't i 100 % agree wasn't made clear i had no idea i just only reason i worked out because i stood and looked but it wasn't explained but my problem is with the whole thing in general i think debate is important and that's where it all should start right but the problem is is that what is a debate about it's about winning right and if you're a good orator or a good debater even if in in factuality or in in real time you're actually wrong if you're good at an argument you can beat almost anybody right and that's the problem with the debate it's based on winning not based on deliberation or finding a solution.

53:23So Lawrence Fox stands up or whoever, and they make, they don't really make it, they make their argument, but the next person that stands up doesn't answer to that, right? The only time you get to question the argument is a point of information, they called it, where you'd stand up and say point of information, but you can knock that back. So while it's great that free speech and whatever else is won there, what was the solution? Okay, so now some people disagree or agree but i think deliberation needs to come into play right it's like okay so you've said this about islam what's what's my comeback right because i don't believe any of those people there on the opposition were bad people or bad muslims or whatever so what's the answer to the things that i'm saying if they are aren't true and it and it just became like a firing match which was great to see and it's fun to watch but for me at a societal level there has to be deliberation.

54:21Like, what is the solution? Otherwise, we're just going back and forth the entire time. And what's the solution? What's next? Like, what's next after that debate? People go home and say, well, people didn't change their mind, put it that way. Well, the good thing is it was recorded and it will come out on YouTube. So people can watch that and they can see with their own eyes. Yeah. Yeah, for me, it was clear cut who won that debate on the day. I think from a scoring match, regardless of how I feel, I think from a scoring point, the proposition won because they made better points and they didn't get answered.

54:56And the opposition led with a Samirian campaign. And I think from just a completely unbiased, like who made a better argument, then clearly that they won. But the point is, is that, okay, but what's next? If they are right and we should be suspicious, then what's next? Because I don't think the people we should be suspicious of where the people sat on the opposition side. So, like, what's next? And I think, and the thing is, we spoke about it earlier, but it was two really good speeches for, one, the proposition and the opposition, and they were from the floor. I think they were ex-students or students of Oxford University.

55:38One was a Muslim guy who was on the proposition side, one was a white guy on the opposition side. They said almost the same thing. They just ended up in a different thing. but I think their point was this has become an argument of sort of language and we're not really honing on what the definitions are and if you don't know what your definitions are it's just an argument of language and there aren't going to be any solutions and one of them also said suspicion is a really low bar so I'm suspicious of loads of people I'm suspicious of rich white billionaires because they're only in it for themselves let's make the argument I'm suspicious of whatever So suspicion is a really low bar.

56:18But I think in the consciousness, it was like, oh, if I'm suspicious of Islam, I'm racist and hate Muslims, right? But suspicion is not like the same as prejudism, is it? I don't think. Maybe I'm wrong. And I think that wasn't really what it was about when the debate actually started. It became being about like, are Muslims bad or are they good kind of thing? And the proposition's main argument was a theological argument. So therefore, the pages in the Quran, they were reading it out and saying, well, what does that mean? And that kind of thing. I think the theological argument is important because if it isn't important, that means that the progression of the West isn't because of the changes in the reformations in church.

57:04right so a lot of intellects and historians would say that the west has got to this place because um you know reformation that's probably protestant protestant i can't say that word protestantism and like reformations in the catholic church the the ability to go okay yes we're christians but that kind of needs to be changed whatever and in islam they pride themselves on things not being changed which i understand i understand why that's like preservation of something from a long time ago is obviously valuable um and that argument matters in my opinion but it doesn't matter as much as what the proposition was saying so for example tom rams and laurence fox that was like their whole argument but i don't think that that is the entire argument i think there's way more to it than that there's you know there's different cultures within islam there's um the space that we've been given to progress at a different point there's um foreign foreign bad foreign policy which definitely hasn't helped um and also the book doesn't have to change for the culture around something to change and i think most people would agree the majority of people the majority of muslims don't look at the quran and go well i'm gonna do bad things i mean the old testament had some similar similar stuff right but obviously there has been left a vacuum in place because of how the world has become where they have used that to do bad things but I think for the most part most people understand that interpretation matters and it can mean to you what you want it to mean but I would have liked to have seen them answer the direct questions about okay so it does say this why does it mean something different to you and if one of those people said it means something different to me because of xyz and that's why I'm not doing bad things, then how do we spread that message to the people who are reading it in that way?

58:57Islam is not the only and the first ideology to be used to do bad things, is it? So I think we can learn from other things as well. And I think contraventing theological argument and bashing the thing itself just creates more division. Even if that's right, and I'm not saying it is, is it a helpful argument? I don't know. and that's where I kind of stand with it. And I could be wrong, I don't have all the answers, but I would like to have a conversation with someone, not a debate. I mean, there'll be debate amongst it and you would have to challenge each other. But the point is to find common ground, which I think somebody on the proposition did say at some point to find common ground, but it kind of disappeared very quickly.

59:39It became like a shooting match between the two, which was entertaining to watch, don't get me wrong. An all new season of the Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+. Four years ago, we were just making TikToks. But it feels like there are no friendships left in MomTalk. You act like you're better than everyone. You're not. I can't trust anyone in this group. She's just dead to me. There's so much the public doesn't know. Watch the new season of the Hulu original series, The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+.

1:00:10For bundle subscribers, terms apply. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. Well, I'm not going to say a great, I'm not going to say anything. I'm going to let the comment section have fun with what's just been said there.

1:00:52But I tell you what I am suspicious of. People that work for The Guardian. So the final question is, you want to become a journalist? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who do you want to write and report for and why? And what does the future hold for you? So my article was published in the magazine called Prospect Magazine. They advertise as a centre magazine. so they don't lean either way and you can anyone can read that and deduce whether that's true or not um when i was there um the editor was a guy called alan rush bridger who was an ex uh the ex-editor of the guardian was there for a long time and i don't hold really any particular particular political view i think party politics is probably on its way out i think that each problem needs its own special solution um i think the problems of today are exacerbated by such divisions and i will work for anybody that allows me to say what i want to say as truthfully as possible prospect magazine allowed me to do so even though you know it's about criminal it's about you know all these other things which are which i respect and i will have a conversation with anybody at any point it doesn't matter who they are and be respectful about it so I think if I work for establishments that mainstream establishments it gives me some level of authority will I continue to be there forever I don't know I mean there's a massive question mark on my life in general about how how things are going to go but I just hope that I am allowed a space to just talk about issues and and try and find solutions and use my own lived experience as a way to to explain that I've seen behind the curtain behind worlds that most people haven't um you know I've seen you know I've been in the military that's something that people you know aren't very sure about I don't understand and I'm not here to say that it's the best thing ever and there's not anything bad about it because there is the same with prison I could go on about that all day the same as controversial figures like if somebody treats you well and and for whatever reason but they hold their own values that doesn't mean i can't be friends with them the interesting thing is i'm quite worried right about saying that i know tomu romanson whatever and for whatever else but no one bats an eyelid if i say that i'm friends with murderers that i met in prison do you know what i mean and it's like mate he knows this tomu knows this i mean look when i said that when i saw him at the episode debate that's the first time i spoke to him in absolute donkeys mate like probably six seven years right but if he says something I think it's ridiculous I'll tell him and guess what you'll be the first person to just have a conversation with me about it that's what I value and I just think the world needs more deliberation and if that can be something that I can help bring along then I've done my job I'm obviously not in this for the money because journalism doesn't really pay that well if the Telegraph and the Guardian both headhunted you and both gave you a job at the same time what newspaper would you accept?

1:03:59Well, I mean, there'd have to be a conversation, wouldn't it? This is the conversation. They'd have to allow, like, you know, I'd say, I'm going to write about this and pitch that stuff. Would you allow me to do it? I actually think that The Guardian probably would give me a bit more freedom. And do you think The Guardian prints the truth all the time? I think mainstream media is flawed in general, really. That doesn't mean I wouldn't get involved in it, but it's just that the problem is that it is somewhat binary or very binary. they have masters to answer to they are stuck in whatever belief or system they have mate put it this way it happens in my life i have mates on the extreme left the extreme right and all the way in the middle if i speak to my right mates and have a debate about them they think i'm the most leftiest kind of idea right if i speak to my mates on the left they think i'm like some alt-right mania you can't win because everybody is so entrenched in their ideas and that's what i want to get away from because that's the only way things improve and yeah like i said if i can use my lived experience to be like, no, no, I think you're a bit wrong there and develop my lived experience and chase the stories, find out more and, and, you know, not be prickly about it and just, you know, be interested and just learn and I think it can be done but I'm not going to do it on my own.

1:05:09I'm only going to draw up now, I'm joking. Would you want me to put your social media links in the description? Yeah, of course, yeah, So where can people find you? Instagram, X? Instagram, yeah, that's the main one, yeah, yeah. The link you want in the description? yeah that would be the main one okay cool I will put Isaac's Instagram link in the description give it a click give him a follow and see which way he goes Telegraph or Guardian if he goes Guardian it's got nothing to do with me but good luck thank you very much good luck mate stay safe and yeah may you live a successful life and don't go back to jail no definitely not that's over with mate that's over with okay

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