Matt Goodwin: White British Minority by 2063 & Reform's Last Chance

26:18To be honest, much harder than most people did. I had Hong Kongers coming up to campaign for me. I had people from Poland, Romania. I had Zia Youssef. I had basically, let's say, very patriotic Brits, often from minority backgrounds, who cared just as strongly as I do about white Brits becoming a minority, borders needing to be fixed, free speech being thrown in the bin, despised Keir Starmer, all the rest of it, right? That's what I mean by getting a broad coalition of people together because we're not going to win a general election unless we get to 32 % of the vote. That's what you need for a majority.

26:55So all the people online who are celebrating like fringe parties getting 6%, 7 % in the polls, it's like, yeah, good luck to you. You're nowhere near getting the majority. The only party that can get that majority is reform. That's the reality. So I was really supportive of this broad coalition, right? Getting this broad coalition. And then people are like dumping on me on social media going, why are you campaigning with British Sikhs? Why are you campaigning with Hong Kongers? These people should be re-migrated out of the country. We should include these people in mass deportations. And I'm like, hang on a minute.

27:29The geezer that's in the photo with me, the British Sikh, is just telling me about how him and his mates have done more to stand up to the grooming gangs than anyone else in their community. And you're telling me these are the guys that should be deported. Like, I'm not really having that. And I just think there is a faction on the right that have gone on this kind of purity spiral whereby they've convinced themselves that the main threat facing Britain is somebody like, you know, Zia Yusuf, when the main threat facing Britain is clearly much bigger than that. And I don't think people are boxing clever.

28:06I think they're like locked away in this cul-de-sac. They'll never be able to get to 32 % of the vote. They'll never be able to win a general election. So they'll never be able to save the country. I want to see that broad coalition put together. And I'm not saying let anybody in. I'm saying like, very tough. You know, if you're in this country and you're not paying taxes, you're not working, you're living in a social house, you're living on welfare and you hate who we are, I'm going to be the first one to say, sorry, time to go. Let's get you out. But a lot of the guys who are actually campaigning with me, they're fully on board with that.

28:38What could be a bigger threat than political jihad though? Because that's how a lot of people will see it. Do you think this is an infiltration of politics and the political system. A lot of people would see it as that, yeah. And it would concern them and scare them because why do we need Islam in positions of power in Parliament? Why should we have that in a Christian country? This is an argument that a lot of people would... No, I understand what you're saying, but if you're talking about reform here, we're talking about, I mean, I'm assuming this is a coded conversation about people like Zia Yusuf and Layla Cunningham.

29:10I suppose, yes. Yeah, in which case, why would they be in a political party that's publicly said we're going to ban Muslim Brotherhood. And Muslim Brotherhood is the political organization that campaigned for infiltration of taxpayer-funded institutions. Why would they be endorsing a political party that's cracking down across the board on Islamism, including banning the burqa and banning religious face coverings as reform confirmed this week? Why would they be in a party that's saying we're going to root out radical woke ideology in our schools or we're going to ban churches from being converted into mosques.

29:45Personally, I don't see it. Now, there are people who are trying to do that in our country. I think the French have just done a report on Muslim Brotherhood and they found that there is a clear concerted attempt to infiltrate local municipal government by Muslim Brotherhood activists. That is happening. And it was happening in our country too. I do not for a second believe it is happening within the Reform Party. I think Reform, to be frank, is the last barrier that we have to some of those threats. If I was to say the word takiyah to you, what would your response be to that in regards to Islam, Muslims?

30:22Yeah, I just don't, yeah, I mean, I just don't think that this is part of a, look, I know these people personally. So if the insinuation is people are deliberately lying and misleading and gaslighting in order to infiltrate a political party and then try and take over a political system. I have absolutely no doubt there are some people who think like that, but not people who have been campaigning with me. And have you ever met a Muslim that doesn't put Islam first? Yes, I've met a lot of Muslim, Sikh and Hindu people who have put their British citizenship first. And I'll give you the evidence for that.

31:01I've had to talk about it in the book. Whitestone Institute surveyed British Muslims and they said, who do you identify with first First and foremost, do you identify first and foremost with Islam or do you identify first and foremost with Britain? There is unquestionably a major problem in our country because 71 % said Islam. And I talk about it in the book. 28 % said Britain. So nobody in this room is denying we've got a major problem. In fact, I saw it up close when I campaigned in Gorton and Denton because one of the big reasons the Greens won that was sectarianism. And what sectarianism is is when people put their religious and their tribal identities ahead of their national loyalties.

31:44And this is a major problem in our country. But there are – if you believe those numbers, there are still 28 percent of British Muslims who are saying, hang on a minute, I'm first and foremost, I'm British. People like Zia Yusuf, for example, among others. Those are the people I genuinely believe that should be part of a coalition to help turn this country around. And there's a lot of other things we can get into as to what you might do to ensure that people who are not identifying first and foremost with our country and with our identity, maybe life becomes very difficult for those people. For example, we can ban Sharia courts.

32:21We can ban cousin marriage. We could crack down on Islamist networks and funding. These are all things we could be doing right now under a government that understood that, under a reformed government, for example. but I push back against the sweeping generalization because there is a tendency on the right to say well all Muslims believe this therefore we need to get every single Muslim out the country or we can never have any Muslim in political institutions and I think if you just look at the evidence that's just not true like if you look at what a lot of British Muslims think and believe I think there's some nuance there that people are are missing out on and I do think that will make us weaker it's a bit like saying in an earlier era you know well if you're not white you can never possibly feel patriotic about this country but look at somebody like you know ian wright i mean the idea that that guy doesn't believe in britain is absurd oh it's insane right but that's what i'm saying there's nuance within this and people sometimes lose sight of the nuance it's like people on the left who say everyone who's got money must be an evil evil capitalist and you know we need to get them out the country.

33:24Actually, no. So you would say that Nain Zia Yusuf personally, he would put country before his religious beliefs? 100%. That's interesting. I wonder why that just converts Christianity seeing as it's a Christian country. Have you ever asked him that over a beer? Well, I think this country is also, England and Britain is also based on religious tolerance. That's one of our foundations. And I do think everybody should be free to practice what they want in the privacy of their own home. If you go home tonight, shut the door and you decide you want to practice harry krishna i don't give a monkeys it's your home you can do whatever you want where i think the new dividing line is if you come into trafalgar square and you start doing a mass prayer for harry krishna i'm going to be like hang on a minute i'm not really up for that i think what we need to do is reclaim our public spaces and say we're not going to have what we saw in trafalgar square with mass prayer and i think the conservative politician nick timothy was right when he said that was an attempt to dominate the public square.

34:24And he was the first person who came out the next day and said, we've got to do something about this and we will ban mass prayer like that in the future. It was Nigel Farage, very first, next morning, gave a speech and he said, we're not going to have this anymore. What about being sworn into parliament on the Quran? That concerns people. I can understand that. And I think, but, you know, again, I'm not trying to bring everything back to reform, but the most powerful speech on the Christian roots of our country is Danny Kruger. If you go on YouTube now and you just search Danny Kruger Christian speech and watch it, it's 10 minutes long.

35:01He's the only politician standing up in the House of Commons saying this is a Christian institution based on Christian foundations in a country that's shaped by a Christian way of life. There is no other frontline political party, major political party, making that argument. It's only reformer making that argument. And you know when Zia Yusuf got Rupert Lowe arrested for whatever took place, I don't know. I genuinely don't know the detail of that. Yeah, because I think that's another thing that people are worried about. They're thinking if someone can get their own arrested, you know, what could he do to the rest of us?

35:36And then he does play a significant part in reform. I think that's why, because there is doubt now. But, you know, you've got Rupert Lowe's got huge support. What separates Rupert Lowe from Nigel Farage? One is known in every single household in this country. has won two national elections with two different political parties and the other one is not really known by the vast majority of households in this country and has never won a national election. That's the difference. And I just want to just, to be absolutely honest with you, Liam, I want to take the egos out of it. I'll be really honest with you.

36:06I'm not actually interested in the individuals. My starting point is what's the best way to save in Britain? And the best way to doing that, I keep coming back to it, is we've got to win a national election. Everything else is irrelevant. What's the best way to win a national election? Going with the party that is most likely to do that, that is seen by most voters in this country as the most credible and compelling party. Okay, which party is that? Well, there is this party that's currently number one in the opinion polls, that's got about 20 mil in the bank, that's got a quarter of a million followers, and happens to be led by guys who won a national election before, twice.

36:40Well, that looks like a pretty good bet. Am I going to go for that? What else have we got? We've got a guy here who's never won a national election. Most people don't know who he is. He's surrounded by a lot of inexperienced people who have also never campaigned for the House of Commons. And it seems like most of the people who are supporting him are either bots or from America. Which one am I going to go with? I think I'm going to go with this one. There'll be people that will think maybe Farage, once he gets it over the line, he bails. When has he ever bailed? Let me give you an example, right?

37:09You and I, same age, basically. We remember how fringe the idea of Brexit was in the early 90s. I remember Brexit, the idea of leaving the European Union was seen as nutcase territory. Nobody ever asked for it, right? It was just seen as completely insane. After the Maastricht Treaty, it was put in. Nobody could question it. Blair comes in, cements it and says, hey, why don't we also deepen our relationship with the EU and maybe we'll get the euro single currency? At this point, it was like inevitable, right? It was just we were in. Nigel Farage was laughed at for 20, 30 years during that process and never gave up.

37:49Now, you admire somebody else that we've talked about during this conversation for his resilience. Remind me who that was. Well, you've admired Tommy Robinson. You said he's a friend of yours and he's kept on going and he's kept on going and he never gave in. Well, the flip side to that is if you look at somebody like Nigel Farage who got into politics in the 80s when it was not popular to be campaigning for things like Brexit, It was not popular to be campaigning for things like national sovereignty and independence. Was laughed at, was abused, humiliated, attacked. There was no financial reason for doing it.

38:21In fact, quite the opposite. I think he left his job in the city to do it. It was a massive downgrade for him and his family. Carried on with everybody laughing, everybody attacking, kept going, kept going, kept going, kept going. Suddenly Brexit starts going mainstream, gets it over the line, helps win the referendum. we've never had the Brexit victory at the referendum without Farage, wins a referendum, sticks around and makes sure it actually gets done, stands down in 2019 to make sure Boris Johnson and the Tories get in in order to get Brexit over the line. And then people say, oh, he's driven by ego.

38:54The guy literally stood down in order to ensure that Brexit got over the line. That's how much he actually cared about the issue. And along the way, also transforms our national conversation over mass migration, makes that acceptable to discuss and debate too. So I just, when people say, I don't think Nigel Farage actually means what he says, I'm like, look at the record. Look at the record of the last 35 years. I've known Nigel very well for 15 years. If he is prime minister, this country is turning fundamentally in a different direction. Absolutely guarantee it. Probably a good time for me to say that during Nigel Farage's Brexit campaign, I mean, he could do no wrong.

39:39I loved, admired him, found him an incredibly inspiring human being. And for the record, despite a few things that he's done, but I'm probably a bit sour about because it involves a friend of mine. And I know that he either got his information wrong or he lied on LBC. I still admire Nigel Farage. I'm not slamming Nigel. I'm not anti-Nigel whatsoever. So it's important to know that I'm not anti-Reform. I'm not anti-Nigel Farage, but I'm just asking the questions that I know that my audience will be thinking. And there's obviously a few concerns for myself because I'm politically homeless. So having you on, giving me all the pros and the cons, well, not so many cons, I'm enjoying this conversation very, very much so because you do shoot from the hip.

40:29You don't care what people think and you've got laser focus. So since Rupert Lowe left reform, his popularity has soared. That's irrefutable. Why do you think that is? I think his popularity has soared among a certain group of people. I think if I had asked the 7 ,000 people that I met at the Gorton and Denton by-election when I knocked on 7 ,000 doors and talked to people and said, what do you think of Rupert Lowe, I could pretty much guarantee you about 80%, maybe 90 % would say, Rupert who? And I think sometimes when we all live online and we see online clicks and we see things going viral, I do think we fall into the bad habit of thinking that is the real world, That is the offline world.

41:17I think Rupert has said things in a sloppy way with no discipline that would lead me to think at a general election, he would be completely and utterly annihilated by the press and by a large chunk of the electorate who would look at him and say, no that it does it's too it's too casual it's too loose um what what the people the british people want is a credible competent alternative to this regime that has been imposed on them for the last 30 years they want to look at somebody and be like okay that person reassures me most british people are not like you and me they're not obsessing about politics and they're not you know reading books and about politics and debating the ins and the outs of what's going on on the right of politics most people are busy like families politics is the last thing they think about but they might be like yeah actually i think the borders are a mess i think immigration is out control and i'm paying too much taxes and my energy bills are too high so when it comes to the election those people the forgotten majority are going to need to be reassured right to get over the line because the british are not open to anything that seems a bit radical a bit extreme.

42:38They need reassurance to get over the line. And I personally don't think that that crowd over there, the kind of Rupert crowd, I understand they care about the country. I understand they really are concerned about the state of Britain, but I don't think they are disciplined enough and in tune with the British people enough to give them that credible, competent alternative. And I'm just being real, right? I'm not trying to irritate people. I'm just saying the only way of turning this country around is taking a majority of people and reassuring them at the same time. We need to hold the British people's hand and say, it's okay to leave the ECHR.

43:19The world's not going to collapse. It's okay if we just end this regime of mass migration. Look, it's okay if we do. That is basically what we need to do to voters. If we start shouting at them and screaming about remigration and mass deportations without ever defining what we're talking about. I mean, the British voters are going to run for the hills. They're never going to get on board with that in a million years. Do you think Restore are a threat or do you think they've actually assisted your position? Everybody I know at the top of Reform is like 100 % focused on winning the local elections in May and then winning the next general election.

43:56And I mean, every single day there's an event, there's a campaign thing. I mean, it's not, people are not sitting around dwelling about other political parties. There is a complete focus on saving the country. When Farage said in one of his big speeches, he believes this is the last chance for Britain. I've talked to him about that as in one-on-one and he genuinely believes that. He believes this is it. If we don't win the next election, we're not going to turn the corner. And I think that's given him a new sense of purpose and dedication. I mean, I'll tell you one thing, all the people saying, oh, Nigel's in this for his ego.

44:35I can tell you when Gorton and Denton, when I ran at the by-election, he was knocking on doors late at night with no media, no cameras, like genuinely believes it. Would you ever see Keir Starmer doing that? Would you ever see Kemi Badenhock doing that? Would you ever see a lot of other frontline political party leaders doing that? It's not to blow smoke up his backside. It's just to say the guy's real, like he genuinely believes it. And I think when you sit online and everyone's like, oh, ego this, ego that, this person's too soft, this doesn't. It's like, I know these people, right? I've been around them 15 years.

45:04I get it. I've seen it. They're serious people and they believe it. They're just boxing clever, right? They need, you need to get that big majority. If you don't get, I keep coming back to it, 30, 31.2%, right? It's basically what we need. Yeah. Right, you've got to get over the line. And then you get over the line, you can then have a conversation, right? Here's our notice. We'll leave an ECHR. Right, here's our first piece of legislation. We're repealing the Tony Blair's Human Rights Act. What does that mean? It means we can get all foreign criminals out of the country. We can immediately detain and deport all illegal migrants and get them out.

45:34We're not kind of just standing there screaming about mass deportations. It's like, here's a plan to actually get people out. Right, okay, what about the 72 % of Somalis who are living in social housing and mostly they're unemployed? Well, okay, what we're going to do in government is remove welfare benefits of people who aren't British. And then we're going to remove social housing subsidies for people who aren't British. And that's costing the British people£6 billion a year and£10 billion a year for welfare. So there's£16 billion right there that we could put into the NHS or police forces while also creating, let's call it, a difficult environment for people who are living on the state at the British people's expense, many of whom probably hate who we are and hate our way of life.

46:18Now, that to me looks like something I'd quite like to see happen, right? I'd like to see those things happen. And I'd like to see net zero get gutted. So our energy bills come down. I'd like to see us drilling for oil in the North Sea. This stuff can all happen within the next couple of years because I think we're on the cusp of a major financial crash in this country. And I think the next general election could be happening as early as next year, 2027. I really do believe that. There is so much NFL on ESPN right now. Monday Night Football, plus pregame and postgame. NFL Live, NFL Primetime. Everything you need to stay on top of every game, every week.

46:57Unbelievable. And now NFL Network is on the ESPN app. More football, more coverage, more ways to watch. Football's on, all season long on ESPN and streaming on the ESPN app. You gave me hope when I watched you. I can't remember what interview it was, because a lot of people were scared, senseless, of what the future may bring or may not bring, or the complete demise, the complete implosion of the country. But you said that you was optimistic. And I thought, well, that gives me a little bit of hope. Because I think we're going to get this government. Because you've got your finger on the pulse.

47:32I think we're going to get this government. And I think we're going to get... Look, when Blair came in in 1997, you remember that, Corbettania, I remember, I was 16. What the left did very well at that point is they used that majority to completely change the country and its constitutional set-up. You had the embedding of us in Europe, mass migration, Supreme Court, devolution. Blair just basically took a bazooka to the whole system. There's no reason a right-wing government couldn't do that with a majority. There's no reason. We've had two big revolutions in our lifetime, basically. 1979 with Thatcher, and you and I grew up in the Thatcher years, and then we had 97 with Blair.

48:13Those were the two big revolutions that reshaped the country in some good ways and in some bad ways. I think 2027 or 2028, whenever the next general election is, I think it will come sooner than 29. I think that will be the next big political revolution because I think if you get a majority government, a majority reform government, you can then – you've then got the mandate to basically kill off, dismantle all of the crap that was put on after 97. You can start taking on the state and you can start putting the people back in charge, fixing the border, clamping down on Islamism and all the rest of it.

48:49And I think if people are sat at home going, no, that's too, they're not going to do it, too soft, I don't believe it. I'm just telling you, as someone that literally hangs out with these people, that's all, that is going to happen. So who is reform's biggest? I know that when you're focusing on the win, you don't focus on competition, but sometimes you've got to. Who would you say is reform's biggest threat realistically then? I think the establishment. I think everyone put together. It's going to be a, I mean, it already is. The reason they're attacking this book nonstop is because they see me as being affiliated with reform.

49:18The reason they attack Nigel nonstop, but drawing up what did he say in 1975, you know, is because they feel threatened. It's going to be full on. I mean, there will be a coordinated plan to try and take down reform. I saw this at the by-election. You should have seen the stuff that was going on with the media, mainstream media. It was insane. The things they were trying to say about me, write about me, and it was complete and utter nonsense. What you see is a system that is starting to get scared because the people in that system can sense that their positions of power are now under threat. So they are lashing out.

49:56The reason they want to shut down the book is because I didn't go with a mainstream publisher. So they can't control me. They can't censor me. They can't pull this book. They can't sack me. and when they realise they can't control you, by the way, that's why the podcast is so important because so many podcasters have stepped outside of the gatekeepers, they've stepped outside of the groupthink, they've stepped outside of the Overton window, then they can't control you, then they don't know what to do with you and then they start lashing out and they try and shut you down. But actually we're now in this very exciting era, politics with reform, podcasts, new publishers, all the rest of it where actually people are saying We're not going to just be controlled by the institutions anymore.

50:41We're going to do our own thing. And what are your political ambitions? Right now, I just want people in the country to know the truth. I really think that is important. Everyone out there is being gaslit. They're being lied to. Not deputy? Just I want this book to do as well as it can. and I want to try and ensure that as many people as possible don't filter off into things that are not going to help this country. And I understand why people are frustrated. I get it. And I understand why they might not be drawn to a party like Reform. Like, I'm not an idiot. I see why people feel the way they are and they're focusing on personalities and everything else.

51:24But I also can see that if everyone cares about Britain as much as they say they do, if that's true, if they don't coalesce around one entity, we will not win the next general election. And if we don't win the next general election, just think for a second, that is not just the Starmer regime and everything Starmer has done to this country. That is another five years of Zach Polanski, pro-Gaza independent MPs, Labour MPs, you know, borders wide open, ongoing migration, unchecked Islamism, free speech crackdown, digital ID, I suspect, complete gerrymandering of the system. I mean it will be essentially game over and it will be a shame if people after the next election wake up and think wow, that one government that we could have had came really close to taking power but didn't get there because 1 or 2 % of people decided that they'd rather stick with some fringe entity or maybe they said I don't want to vote at all I'm so angry with the system I'm not going to vote at all and I hear that a lot there's a lot of people that are in that bracket in there.

52:38Don't be an idiot. Register to vote. Register to vote and actually have a say. Yeah, I'm going to echo that. Anybody that subscribes and watches my channel on the weekly and you appreciate the work that I put into this. And also it closes a lot of doors for me outside of the podcast, which I won't go into, but like my day-to-day business, because of my views and opinions and I platform anybody, I get a lot of doors slammed behind me from the woke brigade. So just get out there and vote when it's the time. Zach Polanski, in fact, actually Starmer, first of all, who do you think's pulling Starmer's strings?

53:14I don't think he's smart enough to be steering the actual ship of the country, but I think it suits him because he's a communist. But I think why the communist drive and who do you think's pulling his strings? I think Starmer is a classic globalist lawyer that really views the law, procedure, bureaucracy as being front and centre of everything. I don't think the guy's got any passion. I don't think he's got much emotion. I don't think he understands the nation. And I don't think he understands the people. He's clearly always wanted to be prime minister. He's entertained some pretty dubious people along the way.

53:52not just people who hate Britain when he was a lawyer, but actually people like Jeremy Corbyn. Remember, Keir Starmer told us Jeremy Corbyn should be prime minister. Completely insane. And now we are in a very real situation where I think what's coming up on the back of Labour's weakness with the Greens is much more insidious than what we saw with Corbyn. I saw the Greens up close, by the way, campaigning in Urdu, campaigning in Punjabi, doing deals behind closed doors. It was interesting, the very first thing that happened after the Greens won Gorton and Denon. And the next day, the deputy leader was at a stop the war pro-Iran demonstration in London.

54:35Look at the polling that we've had on Green Party voters, much more supportive of Iran than anybody else in the country. Look at the recent polling we've had on British Muslims who are now rallying around the Greens, openly, significant numbers of them, endorsing anti-Semitic tropes, very supportive of Iran. You know, I'm very concerned about the direction of travel. I think the Greens are a Trojan horse for some crazy shit. Well, I wanted to ask you, in all seriousness, because a lot of people, I mean, even me, I look at Polanski and I think, well, the guy's a laughingstock. But really, is he a dangerous man?

55:10I think he's a very dangerous man. Think about what they want to do, right? legalizing all drugs, crack cocaine and heroin, legalizing prostitution, open borders, right? Basically, when they say safe and legal routes, they mean open borders, right? Anybody can come in. Getting rid of our nuclear deterrent, leaving NATO, teaching little boys they can become little girls and little girls they can become little boys. A sort of mainstreaming of this anti-Western, anti-British ideology, mainstreaming anti-Semitism. I'll tell you, I spoke at a meeting two months ago in North London. it was a reform meeting 82 year old lady sitting next to me right lived in britain her whole life had a lovely dinner chatted about everything that was going on towards the end of the night she turns to me not dramatic not angry matter-of-factly she just says look if reform don't win the next general election i'm leaving leaving the country leaving the only home she's ever known and i think millions of people feel like that in this country which is if we're going to carry on with this shit show of a country for another five, ten years, then to be honest, I am going to just leave.

56:17I'm going to go down to, maybe not now, Dubai, or I'm going to go to Italy, I'm going to go to Spain, I'm going to go wherever. I cannot sit this out anymore. And if you look at the numbers, by the way, on the immigration numbers, no one's actually noticed this. It's not just that we're still running historic highs of inward migration. It's that a lot of people are now leaving. About a quarter of a million people are leaving. And many of those are British people. And they're just saying, I'm checking out. I can't watch this anymore. That number, I predict that number, a quarter of a mil, is just going to keep going up and up and up.

56:54And I think Nigel said it the other day. He said, we're losing British people for Afghan goat herders. All our wealth creators are vanishing. And that's not a joke, right? We lost 16 ,000 millionaires last year. And people are like, Zach Polanski's like, great. You know, the wealthy are leaving. The top 1 % in this country pay about 30 % of all tax income. So if your plan is to chase all the wealthy out of Britain, who exactly is going to pay for the NHS? Who exactly is going to pay for policing and public services? Because if they all go, I mean, anyone who stays is screwed because we won't have the tax base because we haven't got growth, by the way.

57:29We haven't got productivity. And I do think people haven't realised how close to the edge we really are in this country. Just to give you one example, we are spending 140 billion pounds a year just servicing our national debt, right? Think about your credit card and the interest on that credit card. Our national credit card, our country's credit card, the interest on that is 140 billion a year before you get to paying for the NHS and schools and everything. So we're paying 140 billion pounds every year just servicing our national credit card. The cost of that, the interest on that, what's called the guilt yields, They are now soaring.

58:07They are higher than they were when Liz Truss brought in her budget and the market had a complete meltdown and freaked out. In other words, what I'm saying is we are perilously close to the financial market saying we're pulling the plug on Britain because we don't think it can afford this anymore. And when that happens, which could happen very soon, we are going to be in the mother of all debt crises. And when that happens, we're then in the mother of all political crises. And that could happen this year. I really do think we are very, very close to a major financial crash. You're talking recession, depression.

58:44We're talking, I think, top economists have already agreed there's going to be a recession at the end of this year. We've got 0 % growth right now, basically. And the only thing that's keeping the show on the road is this Ponzi scheme of, well, we haven't got growth. So we're going to basically have to borrow loads of money. We're going to have to keep spending on all of this stuff. We're going to have to send the tax burden to the highest point it's been since the Second World War, basically, one of the highest on record. And we're going to use immigration to keep just people buying stuff. But what's happening is you and I and everyone watching this show, what's happening is as a result of all of that, we are just living in managed decline, right?

59:20So everything is just slowly getting worse. Public services are getting worse. The NHS is getting worse. The quality of life is getting worse because the whole economic model in this country doesn't make sense anymore. What we need to do personally, in my view, is everything that Nigel and Reform have said, which is gut net zero, bring down energy bills, support small businesses, get them going again because they support 16 million people in this economy, reduce regulation, start actually incentivizing people to get serious about building businesses in this country. get all these people on welfare off welfare.

59:58Got 8 million adults on welfare. Half of them don't have any requirement to look for work. That's insane. So when people are saying we don't want all this immigration in our country, okay, stop the immigration. But I want these people getting back to work. Why am I paying? Like you work hard. I work hard. We pay taxes. Why am I paying for Somalis to live in a council house and not work? That's one question. But the other question, which is nobody wants to ask this, it's a bit awkward. Why am I paying for this lot over here who are also British, but why are they sitting on welfare? Why aren't they working?

1:00:35Oh, we're on the same page, you and me. We've got enough of our own deadbeats that we're funding. We don't need any more. Because people like me and others, right, they're just going to end up saying, this social contract doesn't make sense for me. Meanwhile, I'm the one who's hustling, right? I've got to go into London. I've got to be on public transport. I got to deal with all the decline of our country. You know, I get a front row seat to all of that. And I'm paying for these people that are not contributing. And the British culture historically was based on the idea of fair play. We got it from cricket.

1:01:08You know, there are rules. Everyone contributes. That's fairness. But what's going on at the moment is the opposite of that. This doesn't feel fair to me at all. This feels profoundly unfair. And I think that's why you've got 250 ,000 people leaving. And I suspect in a few years from now, that's going to be 500 ,000, maybe a million people. And that brain drain is going to weaken us. Yeah, I'll tell you what I like about reform. I know I've busted your balls a little bit, but I've got to. But is the business acumen within the party? Because I think that's what Parliament's lacked forever. What on earth do they know about business and actual economics?

1:01:44How do they know how to build a successful, flourishing economy? Well, nobody on the front benches, nobody in the Labour Party has ever built and developed a major business. That's insane. It's a big problem. It's a massive problem. You'd think if you're going into politics, you want to run the country, you should have experience of running a big business. But it's not happening. I think it's completely crazy. And that's what I mean. I'm very, very alarmed about where we are. And look at this year, right? In April, everybody's bills are going up. Council tax is going up. Water is going up. Mobile phones are going up.

1:02:16Car tax is going up. Energy bills are now going to go up because of the war in Iran. We've got no resilience in our energy markets anymore. We're not using our own gas. We're not using our own oil. We're importing energy, often from our enemies. That's how mental this has become. So it's a complete joke. The only person, again, ahead of the curve on the energy, Nigel Farage. He's been saying it for years. Start drilling for oil in the North Sea. Stop shutting down working-class steel factories in northern England because of this net zero madness. Yes. Just quickly, do you know June Slater? Yes.

1:02:48I want to give her a shout out. She won't have a bad word said about Nigel. And if there's any remote bad word said about him, I'll get it in WhatsApp. I'll tell you something about June. And she gives me the breakdown. She's lovely. I'll tell you something about June Slater. She came up to Gorton and Denton two, three times to help the campaign up there. So June's solid. Yeah, she's good stuff. What do you think of this as a thought? And not just a concept, but logistically, how do you think it would work? Now, I think Westminster, I'm sure you'll agree, is completely and utterly detached from working class Britain.

1:03:17So how do they know how to fulfill our needs if they've got no connection? They don't know, they don't understand that fibre. They've never lived in communities where back in the day you could leave your back gate open and people would come in and out and nick each other's milk and sugar. And just, you know, back in the day how it used to be. Those days are long gone. So these people that are so detached, the politically elite, the political snobbery that's in there. I've always thought that they need these political parties could do with a streetwise advisor that knows what goes on in these North London tower blocks.

1:03:51They've got their ear to the ground on the street and they can see things and understand things that the political elite can't. So I've always thought it'd be nice to have a trustworthy streetwise advisor to these political elites. but how would that work? Is it something you've even considered? Is it something that reform have played about with as an idea? Well, MPs historically were supposed to have that, right? And the teams around them, they're supposed to represent and reflect the communities that they're from. But what happened is politics got professionalised and as you say, we lost that link to communities.

1:04:24So I completely agree with you. We need ordinary, normal people running for office, standing for election. I think that is happening now. I think you look at the local elections this year in May, we've got 4 ,000 or 5 ,000 candidates that are standing for reform. Most of those are decent, hardworking, taxpaying, law-abiding British people who care about their country. I think that's how it should be. Keeping that connection to the grassroots is critically important. Look at Keir Starmer. The guy's never – I mean put Keir Starmer in a working-class men's club in northern England. It would be a disaster.

1:04:57He wouldn't come out alive. I don't think he'd come out alive. But I campaigned with Nigel. It's a completely different story. Even if people are like, oh, you know, I might not vote at the next election. I'm really frustrated or angry or whatever. They still love the guy. They still, because they can see his heart's in the right place and his instincts are in the right place. Oh, he's a hell of a communicator. He has got so many strong points. There's no denying that. So here's my question for you, because I'm allowed to ask you a question and abuse this position. Why do you think a lot of people on the right are not coalescing behind one movement?

1:05:33I think there's a lot of ego on the right hand side. I think there's a lot of people suffering with main character syndrome, which is a shame. I think everybody wants to be the centre forward when we desperately need a captain. I think we've got a rise of ethno-nationalists and I'm not sure whether they're doing it to push the Overton window or they genuinely are intolerant of anybody other than the Aryan race, which is a bit of a concern because we know quality people that haven't got blonde hair and blue eyes that contribute more than some of the people that object to them. Too many splinter parties.

1:06:12And I think because Islam is such a big deal, I think when they've seen Faraj recruit a few Muslims, I think that's put people's noses out of joint. People have to remember that Tommy Robinson, whether they like him or not, has a huge influence in the UK. There's not many people that could bring a million people to the streets of London. There just isn't. And Nigel's sort of beef that I think was unnecessary with Tommy didn't do him any favours either. So I think he would have lost the support of the people that supported Tommy. I think that could be easily resolved because Tommy is country first.

1:06:47And I think if there was just an honest chat between the two of them or even just a let's just agree not to slag each other off. Let's just, you know, I do the culture, you do the politics. I think that would be OK. But I think that's probably the reason why there is so much divide. But if you think of it, if you take the 30 ,000 foot view, really, it's no real big deal. I think all these little minor details, because we all want the same thing, essentially, I'm sure. We want our families to be safe. We want to know that our wife, when she goes to the shop, she's going to come back unscathed. We want to know that when our daughters go to the park, they come back unraped.

1:07:24I think we all want the same thing, but I think there's too many people that want to steer the ship. For me, I'm looking for a captain. I'm not interested in the centre forward, the glory boys. I want somebody that picks the right players and the right team. And I think if we get more voices like yours that are reasonable and don't shy away from questions that you know are going to cause problems with certain groups. I think communication is king. And eventually, I think if we focus more on our similarities as opposed to the differences, when if you step back, they're not actually that big a difference at all, I think we can merge and pull together and get something over the line.

1:08:04And I think although we're running out of time, there is still a little bit of time. So you've actually put a bit of optimism in my heart. One thing I would say, and people, I don't know if anyone noticed this, the Gorton and Denton by-election in Manchester when I stood. I was gutted about that result. Well, I was very proud of the result. We beat Labour in Greater Manchester, which was a big thing. It was a big thing. It was more the Greens winning. It was the Greens winning that really, yeah, it was dangerous stuff. But also the Conservatives lost their deposit. Labour finished third in one of their diehard seats.

1:08:37there was a party candidate to my right who talks a lot like some of the people online talk. And I think it's worth pointing out that that candidate who was from Advance with Benabee got fewer votes than a monster raving loony party. And I say that not to be facetious, but to make a point about strategy. we polled 29 percent our national polling average in a seat that was our 440th target seat that should not have happened but we did that's how strong the reform vote is the party on the right that went even further along that was trying to push the overton window the people took one look at that and they were like no we don't want this don't certainly don't want it right now and I think if you're wanting an experiment that really shows where the British people are I think that was an important moment and I would urge people to look at that and think okay which vessel here is most capable of turning this country around just to get a bit of a feel for you personally before we wrap this up let's just say that you was PM tomorrow what would be the first five things you would do?

1:09:57have a stiff drink uh well the first five things um goodness leave the echr um without question smash up the home office it's not fit for purpose we need an entire new government department that would manage borders counterterrorism and security relieve pressure on small businesses tax regulation i think that's critical the reason we got a million young people british people not in education employment or training is small businesses aren't taking them on um ban muslim brotherhood draw a line in the sand we're not going to have organizations in this country that are actively trying to destroy this country uh from within um and scrap all hate laws and legislation that's undermining our free speech and free expression and i think if you probably got another 50 but let's say if you start with those five you'd start going a long way to reasserting who we are i think that's what we need and i think the reason i wrote this book which was actually i have to say when i was writing this book i was like it is going to cause a bit of a shit storm but i'm glad it is causing the debate it's causing because i now know when i go to bed at night i know there are lots of people reading it and that means they're reading what's about to happen to the country and that means they're going to start thinking okay what do i need to do myself to try and ensure that maybe that doesn't happen or I can try and push this country in a different direction.

1:11:26And that gives me enormous sense of comfort that people are at least engaging with the truth. And what I'm going to do is, because I think people will be very interested in the conversation and you, so I'm going to put the links where people can find your book as well and all your social media platforms. I mean, knowledge is power. So the more you learn, the more you know. And even if people wildly disagree with it and they say, hey, I don't agree with your prognosis on how to save the country, let me know. I'd be interested. Come and leave a comment on social. Let me know. This is a conversation.

1:12:02We're all trying to get to the right place. Totally agree. We don't all have to agree with each other on absolutely everything. As long as there is a kind of core and everyone sort of understands these are the bits that we think are non-negotiable, you know, I'll debate all day long. I think we'd get so further ahead together. If everyone made a conscious effort, okay, I don't agree with that person. So what I'm going to not do is just immediately insult them. Just come with some constructive criticism or your point of view or your angle. Because then I'll actually think. You come in and say, oh, you fucking bald-edit idiot Grant Mitchell looking wanker.

1:12:36It's like, well, that's me switched off. Well, let me say one thing, right? Because this is – I think there'll be a lot of people watching this show that I relate to this. when I was running for parliament, I had people to my right who were more interested in supporting another candidate on the right and ensuring reform doesn't win that by-election than they were interested in saving the country. And that was a real eye-opener for me. That was a real moment where I really understood there are lots of people online, some of whom have quite big followings who were so petty and driven by ego, right, that they were telling people not to vote for the only candidate that could credibly beat Labour and the Greens in that seat.

1:13:20And they were so petty, they were even cheering on a fringe candidate that had no chance at all. And I looked at those people from the outside and I sort of, Douglas Murray said this once in a talk, he said, there are moments when somebody sets off a flare and suddenly you can see everything and you can see where people are and you can see what they really think. And for me, that by-election was that moment because I looked around the landscape and I was like, that person's in it for ego, not the country. That person's in it for ego, not the country. And I just went around and it was very revealing to me.

1:13:55Now, what I want to see, and I think you're the same, I want to see people - Exactly where I am. I want to see people who are like, no, this isn't about me, actually. This isn't about my ego. This isn't about that this is about saving britain it's so much bigger than us now if you can get a squad together of people who really think like that who are like we're not going to fall out we're not going to have all this ego petty bullshit we're actually going to think how do you turn the country around what is needed to do that that fundamentally it's about character and getting people with character together who can do that and i can't engage with people online who are just simply some of whom are joining leftists in this petty coordinated campaign against reform or people associated with form and i'm like since when did people on the right start going into business with people on the left to undermine people who are trying to achieve broadly comparable things that to me is so revealing of a lack of character not serious people that you get to a point in your life where you realise what character is and what it looks like.

1:14:59And that's what I took from that experience. Yeah, online is a very eye-opening experience. And if you pay close attention, eventually the cracks reveal themselves. So final question then, as a human being, who is Matt Goodwin? Pissed off with the establishment. Love my country and I'm sick and tired of watching it be destroyed. And that's what we're watching. And I think when you have a family, everything changes. You start thinking about what's coming after you. And I, I, I, I sick and tired of people not being told the truth. And, uh, don't forget I've been through the institutions. I mean, I've been, I've been at the, you know, as a university professor, I was in the room, I was at the world economic forum events.

1:15:40I was at, um, top tier, you know, big think tanks and big conferences and labor events back in the day. Like I've done it all. And, um, there are a lot of people controlling our country who don't believe in our country. Yeah, I'm very glad we've gone down the route we did with today's interview. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. And I'd like to get you on another time and just get your full story. But thanks for sharing your time. Thanks for coming all this way. I'm going to put your book on in our description and all Matt's social media links. Like and subscribe to the channel so we can keep bringing you these conversations and books that could possibly be banned so buy it before it does.

1:16:17I hope you have a safe journey and a good talk tonight. and I really enjoyed that. Appreciate it. Thank you, mate.