Steve Laws RADICAL Policies Quizzed By Liam Tuffs: Raw & Exclusive Interview

21:43So it's irrelevant. What about the Poles, Lithuanians, Germans? Would you send them back in too? So it's complicated. With the Europeans, it's slightly different because they are more culturally similar to our people. They are even taking aspects away from language difficulties. You You could assimilate a German within two, three generations, and it would not really be much notice in terms of our people. And it wouldn't really, in terms of majorly affect the demographics. Of course, I wouldn't want billions, millions of Germans coming over. I would say, no, that's ridiculous. But the odd few, that's not problematic.

22:19But when you've got non-whites coming over, that creates a problematic issue where the demographic decline is changing, the white population is declining, and these people are very foreign to us. Like Europeans can live amongst each other and be unified to an extent because you're from the same continent, you have similar histories, even if they are complicated. But when you go to places like Africa and Asia and India and so forth, these people are clearly foreign. They're clearly very different to us and they should not be allowed in. Now, I'm not saying we should let in millions of polls. I voted Brexit for the very reason to get rid of these people.

22:53But I'm not saying the odd one or two polls is problematic compared to one or two Africans. One or two Africans in your village is more problematic than one or two Polish people. Is there a touch of white supremacy about you? No, I wouldn't say there's a touch of white supremacy. I'll just say I put my race first, I put my people first, I put my ethnicity first, that's before me, before anything else. And if I got in the way of our people being, if I was in a situation where I was in the way and it prevented our people from progressing, I would step back and I'd go, right, I'm done. but I see it as I have a role to play at the moment our people need to be woken up at the moment they are very much sleepwalking into demographic replacement a lot of people have kind of like you like sympathetic views to foreigners and they think ah this person's fine this person's fine what about this person is Christian and so forth and the mindset needs to be moved away from that because you have to think you have to think long term you have to think as a collective not as an individual and you have to sit back and go okay so I'm friends so let's just use a random example.

23:53I won't say you, but a random person. You can use me. Okay. So let's just say you. A random person's got a friend who's black. He's from the Congo or whatever and so forth. And you're like, oh, I love this guy. He's great. He sings to a national anthem. He supports the local club or whatever. But that doesn't change the fact that he's still replacing us as a people. It doesn't change the fact that they don't belong here. That doesn't mean that we hate this person. Once he goes home, I wish him well. Hope he has a great life in their own country. But here is a problem. What are your views on Adolf Hitler?

24:25I've never really been asked that question, to be honest. That's why you're here. Some good policies. I wouldn't agree with everything. Probably hugely misunderstood. Wouldn't die on the hill with defending Adolf Hitler, but I would say he's very much a misunderstood politician. I'd say a lot of the stuff that he advocated for in the German people would do wonders for our people right now. What do you think about the Nazi regime? In terms of what way? Are you for it or against it? Or would you have been for it? If I was in Germany in 1930s, I would have been straight behind them. So you would have been quite happy gassing all them Jews?

24:59Well, that's a conversation for another day. I wouldn't encourage murdering of any people. But what I'm saying is... That's definitely a conversation for today. Okay, so we can go into it. I very much doubt the figures on that. You did say nothing's off the table. Yeah, you did, yeah. So would you be for the gassing of the Jews if you was a German back in 1936? No, I don't think we should have to gas people. I just might, I'll just say remove them. this is my position. But I very much doubt the credibility of all of that information. I'm not saying it's all lies, but I don't think everything's as we heard.

25:28Oh, do you think the numbers have been exaggerated? Very much so, yes. Okay. What about is gassing one Jew too many? Gassing anyone's too many. You shouldn't be gassing anyone. I very much advocate for the most peaceful solution to fix demographic replacement. The position I advocate for with remigration is very much, we're going to return you to your homeland peacefully. there's going to be no harm done to you and both sides are going to live happily ever after I'm not here saying right let's just line them all up against the wall and shoot them that's not that's not the line I would ever advocate for for one I'd have my doors kicked off in seconds and two I just don't think it's the sort of thing we need to go down the road British people are never going to get behind something like that even if that was the solution to the problem British people are a little bit more moderate so we wouldn't ever entertain that anyway so my position is I wouldn't entertain that.

26:17I'd push for remigration, a peaceful solution to a demographic replacement. No harm will come to anyone. What about the half a million Sikhs, the British Indians that fought in the World Wars, that defended our shores? What would you do with those people? They didn't fight for us. They fought for the empire. They fought for their own self-interests as well. Is that not enough? No. There's Gurkhas. There's Gurkhas. They fight for us. Most people have a lot of respect for the Gurkhas. But where I come from, the town just over from me, Cheriton, I live in Folkestone, town just over Cheriton, Gurkha stronghold.

26:49The whole town is basically Gurkha now. And that's because there's an army base there and they serve there. But they're just they're just foreign mercenaries. They're paid to come over and fight for us. That doesn't mean they get the right to our homeland. They should be paid and sent back. That that should be the logical solution. In terms of meritocracy, what have you done for the country that supersedes what the Sikhs or the specific Sikhs done for our country in the world wars? I don't think you should ever use that argument. So my ancestors fought for this country for my people to have a future.

27:23They didn't fight for it so Indians can come over and live here and open up a corner shop. Nobody fought for that. Nobody wanted that. If you went back and spoke to all of the veterans, I can guarantee you a good 99 % of them would turn around and go, I do not stand for that. I do not want that. So using the argument of they fought for the country, what have you done? It's such a ridiculous sort of analogy. This is my country. I don't have to explain why I'm here. My people fought for this country. My people have led for this country. And they've done it for a future for our people. And now we are betraying their memory by sitting here and even discussing the fact that Indians should be allowed here.

28:00Have you ever had your head kicked in for any of your views? No, but I have had a gang of Pakistanis turn up at my house with baseball bats once. That doesn't surprise me. How did that go down? I just went down with a baseball bat. The neighbours went out and they'd run off in a car. But it could have went a very different way. I've had numerous death rates. I get a death rate every day. But no one really cares about that. It's just part and parcel of the politics. I'll probably get them now just for platforming. Yeah, you may. Actually, let me interject this. I want to know, Am I going to get more backlash for platforming Bonnie Blue or Steve Laws?

28:34Put it in the comments. Are you more disappointed in me that I've platformed Steve Laws or Bonnie Blue? Now we move back to the serious conversation because I'm interested. Let's just say I fell in love with a Greek woman. Her father's Greek. She's half Greek. She's lived here her whole life as of her previous family members. I fall in love with her. We procreate. I have a baby. That baby's now quarter Greek. what do you do with my quarter greek baby that wouldn't be such a mixed race argument because you are two europeans having a child that's something that has happened throughout history and unfortunately it's something that's going to continue happening i would it's not something i would encourage but it's not something i would turn around and go okay we're going to round your child up and sling you out that's not something that i would advocate for for one the percentage on people that actually do that is very, very low.

29:26And if it's not encouraged as time goes on, it's never going to be a future issue. But as it stands, it's a very low percentage. I wouldn't even put that at the top of any priority whatsoever. What about if I fell in love with a black woman and we had a mixed race child, would you separate me from my child? I wouldn't separate you from your child, but... How would you deal with that situation? I would encourage you both to leave if that would be the best option. If you had the power to make one of us leave, would you? Yeah, non-Europeans, non-Europeans are words. Okay, so you'd separate a mother from their child if their child was non-European?

30:05No, because I'd let you all go together. But what if the British person had to stay where they are? But why would that ever be a situation? This is a weird hypothetical where it's like... It's just to get inside your mind just how extreme you'd go. You can take it down to that there are various subjects, nuances in these situations where, for instance, there are people that have been in those situations and it's complicated, of course, it's complicated. It's not something that should ever be encouraged. What, to procurate another race? Yeah, to mix race. I don't think it should ever be encouraged because one, it creates a child of nowhere.

30:39They're a child that's not part or parcel of their own people and they're also not part and parcel of the people. So say the mother's African and the father's English, you're no longer seen as English and you're no longer seen as African, you're seen as an other. And it becomes problematic. So this is where a lot of mixed race people have resentment and a lot of them turn that resentment towards the British people and they actually promote immigration and so forth. So these people, it is a complicated subject, I understand this, but these people have an inherent bias towards their immigrant parent.

31:17I've seen it, you must have seen it. let's use a prime example, Bob Villan, I heard you want your country back. Half Jamaican, half English, everyone in the country was calling for his deportation when he was sitting there saying, heard you want your country back. He's a mixed race fella. So the public will move to that position when they feel threatened. And this is where the line becomes problematic because the others, whereas you've got the immigrant parent and the English parent, that child belongs to no one, essentially. Even when you fill out your government passport form, it's white British mixed other.

31:53That's what they would be. And unfortunately, these people are victims of immigration and somewhere along the line, a line is going to have to be drawn in the sand and then someone's going to have to go, enough is enough. Otherwise, we're going to have a nation that is like Brazil where everyone's mixed race. There's no inherent culture. There's no dominant ethnic group. It's just hellhole. And that's the direction that is heading in Britain, unfortunately. Is there any part of you that's scared? Do you fear anything, any kind of attack? I'll give you an example. Now, I know that I'm quite happy to speak out against radical Islam.

32:26I'm also happy to speak out against Muslims that don't speak out against radical Islam. It's their moral obligation to call out their own community. And I'm happy to say that, irrespective that I've got Muslim friends. I've sat up drinking and partying and doing real haram stuff with some of my friends I've grown up with that are Muslim. And I've had debates with them. You know, they've got a glass of red wine in their hand and a 50-pound note hanging out their nose talking about the Prophet. I'm like, no, no, no, you're not a Muslim. So, and you know, you must know well enough by now that I'm as outspoken as most men.

32:57And I know that I'm a target for a radical Islamist. They'd love to shut me up. But you could be a target for any non-white, essentially. So how do you sleep at night? Do you fear you could come under attack? And, you know, where do you go from there? To be honest, right, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. If it happens, it happens. I don't walk down the road looking over my shoulder thinking, oh my God, I'm going to get attacked one day. It doesn't bother me. I'm fully aware that there's an awful lot of non-whites that despise me. They see me as like the devil and they want me gone, but the feeling's mutual.

33:28So there's not really a problem there. Like I've said, I've had people turn up at my house before. That's only been a one-off, so touch wood, it doesn't happen again. But ultimately, it's just part and parcel of politics, isn't it? There's going to be the risk that I'm going to get attacked. I do not fear for it. I have three children, so I do fear for their future, but they've had no problems in terms of anything, so that's not an issue. But I wouldn't say I'm concerned at all, to be honest. If I get attacked, I get attacked. It is what it is at the end of the day. It would be no different than any other British person getting attacked.

34:01Do you fear that you could be a target for murder? Do you think somebody could potentially kill you? I don't know, maybe. It depends how influential I got in terms of politics. But as I stand right now, I don't think there's people out there that generally want to murder me. If they do, it's just sort of like a throwaway comment. I don't think there's anyone really going to be hunting me down. You see, I think very differently. I think we are living in times now where there's so many radicals plonked amongst us that we're kind of playing Russian roulette, but this is like an illegal immigration thing, which is a different subject matter.

34:40Let me ask you something. Let me think of something nice you could say about someone. Who's the most attractive black woman you can think of? I don't think black women are attractive. Not any of them? Not any of them. Any Asian women? No. White women. Just white women? Yeah. So, for example, if Halle Berry was set opposite you saying, Steve, let me give you a blowjob, nobody will find out, would you refuse that blowjob? Yeah, she's brown. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slight me. Let's jar something loose. Ay, yes!

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36:05I don't know why you're so shocked I'm just thinking about the comment section now The comment section can fire away, mate If it's white, it's alright If it's brown You're not having it No What about the police? You must have come under attack by the police. You must be a target for the police, surely. Because they must fear that your views will spread further afield and then they'll have a whole new army of people to deal with on the streets. And remind me to ask you after that question, or if you can remember two questions, could you form an army on the streets or are you a small minority that are big on X but you wouldn't be very big on the street?

36:44So they're the two questions. are you a target for the police and could you form a street movement of say 100 ,000 people I'll answer the second one first so I don't forget 100 ,000 people no the only person who can do that in the UK is Tommy I'll accept that everyone everyone can accept that but in terms of a street movement we can very much build a street movement we're working on it at the moment um but it will never it won't be 100 ,000 numbers I'm not going to lie to you it'd be at a push a few hundred that's probably the height the limit was what we could get out onto the street at the moment but what I can get out other people maybe had to get out more but um that's probably the best i could get if i really put a lot of effort into it and done it but in terms of the police um ultimately yeah i get a lot of shit i get arrested at protests um i get like i've had my police knock on my door multiple times i've been arrested i'm currently on bail now but obviously i can't talk about that and um yeah so i do get a lot of shit from the police but i think we all do don't we um If you're a nationalist, most people do get shit from the police, especially if you're slightly influential and people listen to you.

37:50So it doesn't bother me. They're just doing their job at the end of the day. They're going to be told, right, go and harass that person. Crack on, mate. Yeah, I think if you're remotely anti-establishment, you are a target for the police. Somebody, the higher you get up, the more politicised it becomes. And we know what side of the fence they lean on up there, which is a sad state of affairs because we are, as much as I don't agree with a lot of your views, I'm well aware that we are on the precipice of losing our country for good. And I don't think people realise just how quick that could happen and how quickly you can radicalise people, probably from both sides, but not that I would never, ever compare an FNAT to a fucking Islamist.

38:30So just let's not get that twisted. How would you define me? Because some people think I'm far right. I personally think I'm centre. I try and be as fair as possible. Am I what you call a civ-nap? I would call you on the cusp of liberal to civic nationalist. I'd say you're a liberal that doesn't like Islam. Fair assessment, I would say. And in terms of your immigration views, I would say you're very much not open borders, but you're not closed borders. Oh, I am. But you're not in a way because... I hear something. I wouldn't want any new foreign migration. So that's fair. You wouldn't want any more to come in?

39:10No, no, no. No. So that's, yeah, I've got to be open and honest about that. The state that we're in now, I wouldn't want any more foreign migrants entering the country, not in a million years, not until we've got our shit together. And then if they're part of a family that's already here and they can contribute and add to the economy and they've actually got a genuine skill set and a CV and a DBS check and a criminal record check, then I'd be open to, okay, well, if you can contribute and make the country a better place, I can sit there and I can think about it. That's my honest opinion. But it's interesting how you perceive me because I know that people that you knock about with, because I invited you on after you insulted me on X and I didn't respond.

39:56I thought, you know what? Well, is that because you're a prat? You called me a prat. We've got bigger battles to fight and I've been called a lot worse. I thought, well, you sound like an interesting guest. Come on, rather than like all that stuff on X. It's like, yeah, fuck that. Let's talk about the real world. But a lot of people on your side said that I would pull out of the interview and that I'd never have you on. Why did they say that? Well, it's your circles you run in mostly because most people in the civic nationalist, liberal, I say civ-nat just to keep it simple. I'd say most people in the civ-nat sphere are...

40:27And just what is a civ-nat so I'm clear? So a civic nationalist is basically, long story short, they think anyone can be British. Right. which is a fair assessment of you. You think most people can be British. Your African friend, you think, is British. They're African-British. They're not British-British. British is British, mate, but I'm not debating you. I'm not saying they're British-British. No, it's not a debate. But in my mind, I think they're African-British. If they held their culture and their views in front of ours and they'd lived here for their 40 years of living, then I'd say, well, you're not for the country.

41:04So I'm not really a black and white person. I'm into the nuance and I sort of, I do think, okay, well, not everyone's the same and you've got to make a few allowances here. But I know that I'm a better judge than a lot of other people. So I think if it was under my control, I would be able to sit down, interrogate somebody and know there'd be a plus for the country or there'd be a negative for the country. But do you think, I know not to push back on it a little bit, but do you think that is a logical way to control immigration where you've got to look at every person, you've got to work them out, and you go, yeah, he's British.

41:38No, he's not British. Do you think that's a logical approach? I get it would be far simpler from a logistical point of view, but I also am mindful that there are other races and ethnicities in the country already that have been here for a lot longer than me, and they've managed to assimilate, and there are success stories within multiculturalism. I'm just kind of being a bit of a dichotomy here, although I know it doesn't work unless there's a top tier culture, which is ours, if I'm making sense. So you want like a caste system like in India, ultimately, where you've got one class above and one class below.

42:19And ultimately you want the British to be the above class and then all of the immigrants to be below, which is kind of, when you break it down like that, sounds a bit silly when really you could just remove the foreigners and we just have the British people here. And then there's that hierarchy you've got. But I want the hierarchy. It needs to be done. I mean, you go to Poland, I mean, you can smell the cultural hierarchy in the air. It's beautiful. I can't even tell you what it smells and tastes and feels like. But I quite like some of the foreign people that are here. I enjoy what they contribute.

42:55I enjoy the difference. I don't want to live in an echo chamber, but not of the detriment to the country's safety also. So there is leeway with me. There is movement. So let's go back to why your FNAC group didn't think that I'd actually have you on my show. Because for one, ethno-nationalists and civic nationalists have always tried to have debates. I know this is discussion, not a debate, but there are a lot of ethno-nationalists that would like to debate the influential civic nationalists so both audiences can hear the conversation and they can make their own mind up. But at the moment, a lot of civic nationalists sort of, once they've got their audience there, gatekeep that away from the FNO nationalists because God forbid they hear the truth.

43:37And that's kind of problematic. The only person who's done it from the civic nationalist movement who's actually entertained it, other than speaking with you now, was Lawrence Fox. And that debate managed to bring an awful lot of people over to my position. A lot of people messaged me after saying, didn't realise how wrong I was once I heard that debate. It's all as clear as day. I've moved over to your position and so forth. And that was hundreds of people. So this is why I think a lot of people think these debates won't happen. You and Lawrence Fox had a debate. What was the debate then? I've not seen it.

44:07So it was on an X space. I'll send it to you when we finish this. And ultimately, it was just about immigration, basically, and his position and my position. And obviously, he's kind of more where you're at, to be honest. I'd like a traffic light meritocracy system like what Australia used to do. If you qualify, if you contribute, if you're kind and we've got a full background check on you, then you're welcome. But if you step one foot wrong, I mean you fart in a lift, you're going home. That's probably the best way to define my view on it. See, the obvious problem with that is you look at like that's basically what a H-1B visa is in America.

44:52And all of the Indians have come over on those visas and taken over all of the work from all of the Americans in the tech industry and so forth and just completely decimated them. And that's an obvious problem there. when you say, oh, high skilled, high skilled in what? For one, because you always hear of these high skilled immigrants coming over. And then the next thing you need to see is they're working at Uber Eats or Just Eat or something like that. And I understand some of them come over and there are doctors and so forth. I understand that. But why are we not training our own? Why are we not putting our own people forward for this?

45:25Because there's a number of people that apply for those applications that just get rejected and they just go outright rejected. and then some Indian fella or some Pakistani fella comes dropping in, gets taken onto as a role as a doctor, and that's another role that should be for our people, and they shouldn't even be in the country. I can understand that people have sympathetic views towards immigration because they've got a friend that is immigrant or so forth. Most of it, I think, is where you grew up. So you grew up in London, as you were saying, Crawley, wasn't it, you said? London, I was born, yeah.

45:52It's a very multicultural area, even back in the 90s and so forth. So you guys have always been around them. So to you, it's normal. It's like a normal thing to have all of these blacks around. But most other people in the country, especially people who come from areas where I come from and so forth, like small little towns on the outskirts, there are no foreigners. It's completely alien. So when you see like gangs of blacks and stuff in London, you're like, how is that even a thing? Because where I'm from, it doesn't exist. And this is kind of where I think the differences in like SIVNATs and FNATs is sort of coming from.

46:24So like a lot of like your movement, I'd say, have come from similar sort of backgrounds as you. Like you've all been multicultural areas, whether it's like Crawley, Luton, London, wherever. Right. Whereas my sort of movement, they've all been from like small towns and no one's had like black friends and stuff. This is an interesting point. It's very different. Being a product of your own environment. Yeah. So you are very much, we're both products of our environment to an extent. I know who's disingenuous. And the one thing I've got to give you credit for, whether I agree or don't agree, is you've stuck with what you believe in.

46:59You've not buckled. And you genuinely believe the things that you say and you practice what you preach. And I mean, I wouldn't say the same thing to a radical Islamist, but I do respect somebody that dies on their own sword and is prepared to take massive backlash, which I know that you get. I even know I'm going to get that just for having you here. But it's like, there's no way I'm going to let a character like you slide by and me not say, whoa, whoa, whoa, I've got to find out more about you. How have you come here? I respect you for coming on, mate. Let me come on. Because like I said to you earlier, most people would just shy away from it.

47:32They wouldn't do it. They'd be like, oh, he's too extreme. What he's saying is too radical. I do not agree with that. You've told me outright you don't agree with a lot of what I say, but that's not an issue. I can still sit here and tell you it. Totally. Well, I think we need more discourse like this. I mean, the only way to get a solution or find alternative routes to success is through conversation. And if you're a free speech advocate, which I am, I'm not a free speech absolutist. I don't agree with call to violence or call for war, but I'm a free speech advocate. So that means I need to allow someone their free speech and not just say it, actually mean it and do it.

48:08So hopefully by this, this will showcase the fact that I put my money where my mouth is. We don't agree on everything. In fact, there's a lot of things we disagree on, but it's like, I want to hear what you've got to say. This is a free speech platform. And as we agreed and I've stuck to my side of the bargain, I've not hammered you or pushed down or anything or tried to squash what you've, because I want to know why you feel this way. And here's a scenario, actually. You know, those group of Pakistani men that turned up to your house with baseball bats. I know you dealt with the situation fine, but let's just say it went the other way.

48:41and they smashed you to pieces with them baseball bats and they smashed your legs in so bad that they nearly had to be amputated and you got shipped to the hospital and an Asian doctor saved your legs from being removed, would you still want him to go back to his home country? Yeah, because in my vision of what Britain should be, that would be a British doctor. The only reason it's not is because our people haven't been given those opportunities and there's so many immigrants in the country now that we need more immigrant doctors to actually treat the immigrants that are coming over. And it's a catch-22.

49:17It's like a Ponzi scheme just keeps going and going and going. Sure, I'd be absolutely grateful that they saved me, but I would still deport them. They're just doing a job at the end of the day. They're paid to do a job. It's no different than me being a painter and I've had to go and paint some foreigner's house. I'm not doing it because I want to do it. I'm doing it because I'm paid to paint that house. Saving your legs is quite a big thing. and also this is again it's hypothetical but it all has to be because this is a very kind of unlikely situation but it's just to get to get an understanding of just how far you're prepared to go how would you break it to that Asian doctor that saved your legs from being amputated would you say cheers for saving my legs mate but you've got to fuck off now how would you word it diplomatically or would you just hit it they'd get a letter saying you're going to be deported if they do not respond or anything then they'd get a knock on the door saying you've got this long pack your stuff you've got to go would you sign it at the bottom and send him a picture of your legs?

50:08I'd say, Steve Law said you're deported. Goodbye. Not even a thanks for saving me legs. Oh, if it's the person who saved my legs, thanks for the legs, deport. It's not going to change. You could give me a million pounds, I'd still deport you. It's not going to change my opinion. So you've got three daughters. Yep. If one of them fell in love with a black man, what would you do? They've been told not to. They know very much the risks that comes with it. They know my opinions on this. And they will not do so. But you can't help who you fall in love with. But you can very much guide your children to stay away from foreign savages.

50:45But if they didn't and they accidentally fell in love with a black man, would you disown your own children? I would not let it happen. I'd go around and make sure that did not happen. But if they, you know, love is a whole different, there's going somewhere where you're not allowed to go. But when you get chemistry and love, you can't control that. So if that was to happen, I mean, and I've seen families destroyed because someone's fell in love with somebody and they've chosen the person they're in love with over their own parents and brothers and sisters. It happens. You've got to be honest. Chemistry you can't fuck around with.

51:20So let's do it hypothetically. If one of your daughters fell in love with a black man and wanted to marry him and did marry him, would you disown her? So here's the thing, right? This is a politician's response now, Steve. No, the thing is, right, at the end of the day, as you say, you can't control that, but you can very much teach and mould and guide your children to take the correct decisions. In the same way you can encourage your children not to become a crackhead. It's the same mentality. You go, like, stay away from drugs. If someone offers you something, do not take this. If you see your children hanging around with the wrong crowd, you nip that in the bud straight away and so forth.

51:56So there are ways you can do this to prevent that ever becoming a thing. So I wouldn't be too concerned that that's going to happen because I know that I've raised my children the right way to not do so. They know my views on it. They know an awful lot of everyone else in my family's views on it. They know that it's not acceptable. They know that that is not the right thing to do. And I've also warned them of the risks that come with that as well and that they're very woken up. Obviously, I'm not talking about my youngest two children, but this is my eldest because she's close to 15. The youngest are too young for those conversations at the moment.

52:29But the eldest very much understands no. Okay, let me just see if I can squeeze a real answer out here. And to make it easier for you, I'll give you a bit of my past. You probably know about my dad's a rapist. I disowned him. In fact, I got him sent to jail. I was one of his victims. He didn't rape me, but he abused me. I didn't just disown him. I testified against him and I sent him to jail. So I'm familiar with disowning my own if they do something I don't agree with. So if one of your daughters fell in love with a black man and married him, would you disown her yes or no? It's a big question.

53:07It's a big question. Be honest. Probably, yeah. Wouldn't be happy about it. I don't think that situation will ever come to play, if I'm honest with you, because I've raised my daughters the right way, as I said to you a moment ago. So I've put all preparations in place to prevent something like that happening. I also live in an area where there's barely any blacks. So that's a bonus. But ultimately, it's a tricky situation. I couldn't really honestly answer it until that situation ever happened. Well, the thing is, a man with your views, it's a very horrible question to be asked because you know deep down what the answer really is.

53:41And to say it can't be nice. You'd disown your daughter, wouldn't you? I don't know, to be honest. This is the thing. You could talk about it. This could be your American History X moment. I wouldn't. Because I know that, for one, I would deal with a bloke. It would be gone. It'd be out of the way. It wouldn't even, it'd be gone. There'd be no black fella around to be the love of their life because that'd be gone, that'd be dealt with. So there's no vision where I see this ever happening. This is why I can't answer the question. It's like sitting there and going, what would you do if oxygen disappeared tomorrow?

54:18But I can't envision that ever happening, so I don't know what I'd do. Yeah, but hypothetically, if it did happen, but you've already answered it. I'm not going to question you anymore. You have said that you would disown it. Probably would. If she came home with a black man, I would not be happy about it. But to say overall disown as in never speak to them again in my life, that's a big thing that I probably wouldn't answer on a podcast, no. Like in terms of a final answer. Have you seen American History X? Yeah. Do you reckon you'll ever have an American History X moment where you think, shit, maybe I got it wrong?

54:50The true ending of that film actually was meant to be where he shaves his head again and he goes for it. That was meant to be the original, but the actor sort of bailed out from it. Is there a scenario that could ever happen, you think, that would make you change your mind? No. I know what's at stake. The future of our people is more important than any personal grievance I have, any personal alliance I have or anything. It's irrelevant. It's irrelevant what your problems are. It's irrelevant what my problems are. Everyone else. The future of our people is all that matters. and it doesn't matter if some nice Indian guy saved my legs.

55:24That doesn't help the future of our people. That just helps me. And why are you so passionate about preserving the country's identity and why do British people mean so much to you? It's tapping inside your heart now. Because there are people. I care for my people deeply. My children, I have three daughters and they are going to grow up into this country. They're going to have families in this country. They're going to have careers and so forth. and all of the people that I want around them, I want them to be my people. I'm not saying all of our people are perfect. We have plenty of our own wrong-uns, but we deal with our own wrong-uns.

55:58The foreigners do not belong here. They're not the same as us. They're completely alien to how we live. Sure, there may be the odd one or two that can sort of blend in to some extent, but they still stand out like a sore thumb when push comes to shove. If, say, Pakistan versus England, they're going to cheer for Pakistan during the cricket. Just silly little things like that can make them as another as it is. Let alone the fact that they're actually Pakistani. So I care about the future of our people. I know what sacrifices have been made by our people to create England as it is today. And the fact that our people are just letting it go and betraying all of our ancestors just makes me truly sick.

56:35Because this is not what they fought for. This is not what they envisioned as a future of England. This is not the England they envisioned. This isn't even England. Like if you look around and anywhere you go, it's just foreigners everywhere. There's vape shops, there's kebab shops, there's Turkish barbers, there's foreigners selling drugs on the end of the street, there's foreigners raping some kids down the road and stuff. Like everywhere you go, it's just not England anymore. And that's because there's too many immigrants. Like you can beat around the bush, but that's the simple fact. And we're back.

57:09Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's jar something loose. I like that. The certified fresh series returns. Your boss. You always like this or is this just an act? Oh no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody. There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig. The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to live. Real value shows up in reliability. You don't have to second guess. Like a set of Firestone all season tires. They're designed to deliver confidence-inspiring wet weather traction and a quieter ride, no matter the road, season after season.

57:55Firestone all-season tires. For durability, you can count on. Just like people count on you. Firestone. Always dependable. Since 1900.

58:08Well, I'd agree with you there. There's not just too many immigrants. There's an obscene amount of immigrants, far too many, an astronomical level, totally out of control. And it's fucking embarrassing. I mean, I love the country. I love the people. Same as you. I feel very, very embarrassed of our government being our representatives. I mean, I really do. I mean, I loathe Parliament. The people in there that are so detached from the likes of you and me. I just think, how have we got into this mess? Have you ever been abroad on holiday to a country outside of Europe? Yeah, I've been to Turkey.

58:46Oh, blimey, but that's almost 100 % Muslim. I hated it. Did you? What did you dislike about it the most? The food's crap. The people, they're just like, it's like a whole country of kebab people. Like, it's the only way I can explain it. Like, you know, when you go in the kebab shop and like, they're like, hey, boss, blah, blah, blah. It's just that everywhere. And it was just like, oh, it's not for me. Didn't like it. Are you chilli sauce or garlic sauce, man? I don't really eat kebab. I used to when I was younger, when I'd go to the pubs and that, I used to have chilli sauce and that, but no, I wouldn't eat a kebab now.

59:18Then you had your fucking racist epiphany and you thought, right, that's the first food. That is when I first heard that some little girl got pushed into a kebab and chopped up from all the Pakistani rape gangs. And then after that, I was like, no. And a lot of people won't be able to argue with that and they'd think fair play. It's just disgusting. You don't know what's in that meat. You don't trust the people serving it. It's just no. Yeah. See, there's things that I can't argue with, even if this was a debate, because the crime against humanity, the crime against children, the crime against our culture, it's off the Richter scale.

59:52And I can see why people are leaning more towards your viewpoint, because things are so out of control now. You know, the pendulum's gone so far that way that people are happy to go completely the other way. And there's probably, as Piers Morgan, has someone mainstream ever not said, right, I want to have a head to head with you? No. So I had Louis Farouk team reach out to me back when I used to do the dinghy stuff. But I said no, because I've watched loads of like his like documentary things and their obvious stitch ups. And I was like only like two years into my activism back then. I was like, no, it's just not happening.

1:00:28But other than that, no big names, really. No. I mean, you've done a great job of being exactly who you are, which I'm very grateful for. That was the deal. But we'd never edit this to make somebody look worse or better. It's just like, this is what you're saying. This is your answer. We're not going to doctor it. And I'm also not going to edit. I'll never do it to make myself look better than what I am. It's like, well, I am who I am. I've got plenty of people that dislike me. Even your lot don't like me. It's like, fucking hell, I can't win. Your lot hate me. Yeah, I'll be interested to see.

1:00:56I mean, the thing is, I've never really had a massive discussion. And with X, because it's such a toxic platform, but I'm very grateful for it because it allows voices like mine. I mean, I was completely and utterly fucking censored just through my views. And I think that you called me a liberal. So Elon Musk has now opened up that door for people to speak freely. And I think, well, you should be able to listen to people's views because you'll never know what they're capable of if you don't know what they're saying or thinking. I think the shutdown of free speech is one of the most dangerous things you could possibly do to a nation.

1:01:30I mean, you look at Anjum Chowdhury. Imagine if he'd have been completely set. I mean, he shouldn't have been allowed to fucking hate preach on our streets. I mean, Jesus Christ. What the fucking hell was the country thinking then? But I'd still like to have seen him have an X platform so people could see just how radical this piece of shit is and get him banged up sooner than he was. I mean, Christ, imagine how many people he's responsible for converting and radicalising. Now, obviously, people can find you on X, which I'd imagine is the only platform you're going to be allowed on. Is there anybody out there that you'd like to debate?

1:02:01Well, I want to debate Tommy Robinson. I'm probably arguably one of the largest ethno-nationalist accounts in the UK. He's arguably the biggest civic nationalist in the UK, if not the world. He's very confident on his position, which I believe. I know he's your friend, so I'm going to go easy on what I say. This we agreed on also. though. I'd never have a friend of mine bad mouthed in front of me. Yeah, no, I understand that. Exactly. But to answer your question, yeah, I very much like to debate Tommy. I think he's leading our people down the garden path to nowhere. I think he knows this as well.

1:02:35I think he may have started with the best intentions, but I believe civic nationalism will lead to our people being replaced and it needs to be addressed. That's all I'll say on it. The thing is, mate, you've said some fucking wild things, but you're not an unlikable bloke. So I'm not horrible. I'm just telling you what I think. And you've explained the reason why you feel the way you feel. And I suppose there's no flexibility with you. You've seen rapes and murders and crimes and scary stuff coming from foreign people. So in your head, it's a lot easier just to expel them all. It's not just the rapes and murders.

1:03:10It's the future of our people. This is the priority. Our people are going to become a minority in our own homelands. And to understand what that means is we're going to have no control over our destiny. that means we're not even voting our way out of any of the problems. We're not even going to be able to have the strength if there was a civil war to be able to get ourselves out of these problems because we will be a minority. Sure, we may be the largest minority for a small amount of time, but all of these other small ethnic groups, they're not going to ally with us if things go tits up. They're going to ally with the other foreigners.

1:03:40Like all the Africans are going to stick together with other Africans and the Asians are going to stick with other Asians and so forth. Like the Bangladeshis and the Pakistanis and stuff will go against the Indians and so forth. so you have all of these problems and they're escalating and our people if we're a minority we have no control over our destiny we have no control over our future our people have no representation and it's over it's gone we've lost england and it would just be a slow decline so my solution is remigration total remigration that prevents a civil war my my position presents that ever being a civil war or violence on the streets and it won't be like a civil war where there's half the country against half the other country.

1:04:18It'd be more like Northern Ireland where there's cars getting blown up and flats getting burnt down and so forth. And that will escalate drastically without remigration. So they're the problems at hand. Sure, the rapes, the murders, the thefts, the assaults, all of that is a huge problem ongoing. But it's still a minute problem compared to the ever-arching problem in the corner as we're being replaced in our homelands. And in regards to civnats, do you hate them because they don't follow your script? No. See, I don't hate the civnats. I do very much dislike some of the leading civic nationalists who understand what's at stake and they still push it.

1:04:58I do very much dislike those people. Hate's a strong word, so I don't use it too often. But I would very much say a lot of them are misguided. A lot of civic nationalists are either scared of being called racist, they're scared to say what they truly think in case they get their jobs, in case they lose their jobs. So the civic nationalist position is the safe position. Oh, I want the immigrants gone, but only the illegals and the criminals. And inside, I really want them all gone, but I'm not going to say it because I'm scared. Or for whatever reason, there are people who are generally civic nationalists and love it, and that's mostly because they've got skin in the game.

1:05:32Their best friends are Jamaican or they've got a mixed-race nephew or something. So there'll be people with skin in the game. You can never win those people over. I'll never be able to win those people over. They'll always see me as the enemy. But the people in between who are just misguided, that's the audience that I need to bring over to our position from my perspective, because they are the ones that are open to our position but not quite there yet and need a bit of guidance. And out of interest, and you can be as ruthless as you like, man. I mean, you've said this is political, not personal, and I'm fine with that.

1:06:02I've got thick skin. So if you bear in mind the conversation we've had today, And I've given you a few, I've given you some insight into where I'm at, you know. Footlong, Xavier, Lawrence. I mean, there's a lot more than that. I've given you examples and I'm in favour of them staying with me. I'd never want them deported. I don't want any new foreign migrants coming in as of today. I don't want anybody from outside of Europe coming in until we get our shit together. I'm trying to think what else I would have said that would have given you a good idea of sort of where I stand on the whole situation.

1:06:38But you've put me as a civ now. How would you perceive me? Be as honest as you like. I will not take it personal. So I don't think I'd ever bring you over to my position. Someone like you, I don't think I would ever bring it over. I would see you as a civic nationalist who's got skin in the game, who've obviously got friends that are foreign. You grew up around foreigners. So to you, that is the norm. So you wouldn't want to see these people deported. And I very much suspect that you'd be the sort of person that fight against people like me if it ever came to deporting them. You would choose their side over ours.

1:07:09What about is it a human being? Do you quite like me or do you think I'm just a fucking ignorant? No, it seems sound talking to you outside. No, it seems sound. As a person, like I said to you, politics aside, I talk to you friendly. But if we're talking politics, then yeah, your politics is a problem to me. And I'll be honest with you, I generally think your politics is leading people to nowhere. And if it's encouraged, our people will be replaced. Yeah, because I know how frustrating it is when somebody isn't on the same page as you. I mean, this is a very extreme example, but I'm asking a guy who's, you know, the Refugees Welcome Brigade that completely doesn't know the difference between an economic migrant and a refugee.

1:07:49No one's fleeing no war. There's no war in France. And I'm saying to him, there's a population of 20 ,000 people in Kroba. This video has recently gone viral. He's there protesting against the protesters. And I've said to him, what's it going to take for you to realise that mass immigration of illegal men is a bad idea? And I went through scenarios and I cut to the chase and said, what about if your daughter was to get raped by one of those men in that army barracks? Because they're housing them in army barracks in Cobra. Well, I wouldn't politicise it. I said, it sounds like you're making excuses.

1:08:22I said, OK, your daughter's been raped in front of you. You've seen it with your own eyes. Would that change your stance? He wouldn't budge. So then it was very difficult. That's no longer politics for me. That's now personal. That's like, you fucking moron. I can't even say what I'd like to do to him. So I get how politics can swing very much into like, this is actually personal because you're just not getting it. So I'm just curious as to where I am on your spectrum of, yeah, it's political or I could see this getting personal, but I'm not going to start attacking you online after you've been honest enough and good enough, in my opinion, to come on, knowing that I'm going to ask you questions that you're going to have to give honest answers to that are going to be very unpopular with a lot of people.

1:09:07So for me, I think, okay, well, I'm not going to take a personal approach. I am going to keep it as political. And, you know, good luck to you. And I hope that you don't get harmed for your views. Yeah. See, this is the thing. If you're coming at me from a political angle and you're critiquing me, I do not care. If you're attacking me personally, I'm just not even going to respond. I'm not even going to acknowledge it. I'm like that. Yeah, it's just like, mate, I get this all day long. I don't need it. What did I throw at you? I get bald, angry, Phil Mitchell. I think, oh, that one again. I get like, there'd be like videos of me talking there, just like a screenshot of the worst sort of angle you can possibly get.

1:09:46Most unflattering image. It's you, Steve, but like a thousand times. It's just, oh. But yeah, so we all get stuff like that. It doesn't bother me. But realistically, come at me in terms of political questions and anything you want. I'm not going to hold it against you. Obviously, if there was like, if you was coming at me with like ulterior motives and stuff like that, then maybe I'd be a bit pissed off. But overall, I'll talk to anyone. Yeah, I just, I just, I purely wanted to know how you've, how you've come to where you are. And, you know, what's moulded the man? Who is Steve? Final question.

1:10:18Who is Steve Laws? Father, patriot, self-employed painter, keep myself to myself. If I had my way, I'd be at home just watching the football, enjoy it and playing my video games, just chilling out with the kids. Like, that would be me. I didn't want to do this. I was forced to do this. I had no choice. Well, anything you want to ask me before we wrap it up? Yeah, same question back what you asked me. So what would you, what's your personal opinion? Well, what's your personal opinion on my politics? Don't hold back. No, I fucking, I never would. My personal opinion on your politics is I think you need to be a little bit more flexible.

1:10:59Maybe spend some time in different towns for long durations of time where there are different cultures that have managed to assimilate over the years. I think we can both agree there's one in particular that's really struggled the most. But I think politically, we're never going to agree 100%. A lot of what you say holds a lot of weight and I can see why you are the way you are. But, yeah, I've got no problem with you. Because I don't mind. This is the weird thing. I don't like racists as such, but I don't mind anybody being racist towards me. I don't like collective bullying. So that's another thing I take into consideration.

1:11:38I don't like people ganging up on one person or one group if there's not legitimate reason. But the thing is, because the UK is in such fucking bad shape at the moment, I have to listen to everyone's opinion and find out how they come to their conclusion, because I think a lot of people are confused, scared, uncertain, unsure. They've got families to protect. What's the best way moving forward? So politically, I can see why you're appealing to a lot of people. But for me, it's not quite where I'd ever be. Do you think it's a generational thing? Because a lot more people older than me, so I'd say 35 and above, are very more civic nationalists compared to these youngsters.

1:12:20Youngsters that come into nationalism now are very ethnocentric. They understand what's at stake. Do you think it's a generational thing? It could be. Yeah, it could be. Because I see your marches and stuff, and I see a lot of the fellas that are with you around your age, whereas if we do an event, they're all very young. But you know what? Keep my eye out for one of your events next time. And if I get the all clear, I'll come and interview a few people. And I'm not going to, well, you've sat here with me now for over an hour. I've not tried to trip you up. I've not fucking lambasted you. I've just listened to what you've got to say.

1:12:54And I'd happily do exactly the same. But a generation thing, maybe. See, I was of the mindset. It's only because I speak to so many people. I always thought that the young, I mean, my son's not actually. My son's got sort of very similar views to me. But again, he goes down the boxing club and he's sparring with black lads and they've all got the same kind of mentality. But I was under the impression that the people that are coming up through universities and schools, because I know they're indoctrination camps, I thought they was more steering towards the left. But I've been corrected by several people that have got their eye a lot closer on the ball than me, that the younger generations coming up, they're far more right.

1:13:30More radical than I am, mate. Maybe it is a generational thing. And for me, as I've grown up, I thought, well, my job now is to sit back, listen, learn and watch. And that's what I'll do. And I'll be keeping a close eye on you now. And despite our differences, I hope you've got something out of today. Appreciated the fact I wasn't a complete fucking arsehole about it. So that's proved all of your mob wrong. But I do hope that no harm comes your way because you're a father. And I do actually genuinely mean that. And I hope maybe one day the people that you want to get to debate, you can debate.

1:14:03Yeah. Who knows? Yeah, I appreciate you getting me on. Honestly, most people wouldn't do it. So like you said, I appreciate that. Give me a fair shot. I can't really argue more than that, to be honest. You asked me before, is there anything off the table? I said, no, just say what you want. And I thank you for that because it makes my life a lot easier because I don't want to tiptoe around things. I want to hit the questions head on. You allowed it. You a fair game. So for that, good health and stay safe. Nice one, buddy. Cheers, mate. Thank you.

1:14:36And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Jar something loose. Ay, yes! I like that. The certified fresh series returns. Your boss. You always like this? Or is this just an act? Oh, no. This is mad. Oysters, everybody! There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to laugh. Traditional home security only alerts you after a break-in. And that's too late. SimpliSafe is changing that.

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