Terror Attacks & Civil War WILL Happen If Britain Don’t Learn From The Troubles: Richard Inman

22:28Now, when you were moving about as a, you know, off duty, obviously you're in real danger there because you don't know who is a friend or a foe because everybody looks the same. It's not like, it's not like if you go and, you know, fight in Africa or you fight in Afghanistan, well, you know who your enemy is because they look completely different to you. Northern Ireland, a lot of the, you know, Republicans support Man United and Liverpool or whatever. So very, very similar people, but just with a very, very deep conviction about nationality. People say it was about religion, wasn't about religion.

23:00It was about nationality. And in fact, even more than nationality, it was about Republicans who were fanatical about United Ireland, still are fanatical about United Ireland, and loyalists who just, all the loyalists wanted to do was stay British. It was as simple as that. and there was a feeling of threat towards the loyalist community right the way from the Easter Rising in 1916. The loyalist and British community in the north, once partition happened, constantly thought, we're going to be sold out, we're going to be betrayed. So that leads to a level of, not necessarily paranoia, but certainly an awareness that you've got an enemy that wants to destroy you and wants to destroy your state.

23:36And of course, the Republicans on their side felt totally put upon. They felt they were being treated like second class citizens. Were they? I don't know, because that was the 1960s. I wasn't there when that was happening. They certainly weren't being treated as second-class citizens when I was serving there. But it was a divided community, and the terrorist organisations were absolutely ruthless. And this is why I'm very, very concerned about what's happening in the United Kingdom at the minute, because that hatred, you have to do something about that hatred, because it's the hatred that drives that.

24:08Because what happened in Northern Ireland, you saw the enemy as someone that was not worthy of living. And the British Army did that to a certain extent as well. I'm not saying we were sectarian, but if an IRA man or a terrorist that was going to kill us got killed, we would have celebrated that. We would have been glad about that. Yeah, what is it like living and working in a place that is so infested with hatred? Is it immediately contagious? Yes, it is in a way, because your enemy's enemy is your friend. so we naturally gravitated towards loyalist areas if you were a british soldier you weren't going to go and drink in a republican area when you were off duty you'd go to a loyalist area and you'd go and socialize and drink in a loyalist area the you know the women obviously were very patriotic so that you know as a soldier i was thinking this great girls actually really love the country because in the 80s in in england girls didn't have a clue about you know patriotism or about you know anything like that.

25:05Whereas the girls in Northern Ireland, they love soldiers because obviously they saw the soldiers come there to protect them from the IRA and from terrorism. And a lot of people suffered a great deal. There was some horrendous incidents that happened in Northern Ireland. Did you witness any of them? One of the worst things that I witnessed, actually it wasn't a terrorist related incident. It was a friend of mine had blown his brains out in a sanger. And I went in, very good, very close friend of mine. I went in the sanger the next morning and his brains were still lying all over the back wall of the Sanger, hair and brains all over the place.

25:40And that was, you know, when that happens to a close friend, you suddenly realise that life is very, very precious and very special. The IRA tried to kill me on two separate occasions. On one of them, I don't know how I wasn't killed. You've got to say it was miraculous because we'd been deployed to a certain part of West Belfast. There'd been an extradition of an IRA man from the Republic of Ireland to Northern Ireland. The IRA went mental about it. To give you an idea of the scale, in one day there was over 100 recorded incidents in one day. Now you think about the amount of terrorist attacks that we've had in England.

26:18We've had maybe 10 since 2017. We're talking 100 in one day. Not all out-and-out shootings and bombings, but petrol bomb attacks, you know, attacks on the police, rioting. 100 incidents like that throughout the province. Enough to be considered substantial. It was chaotic. And we were stretched. We'd been out on the ground for probably about, by the time the attack happened, about 18 hours. One of our call signs was in an estate called Lenardoon. They got shot at by the IRA. We followed up onto the Glen Road. We got to a house and I saw a broken glass, a broken window in the house. and I went, oh, that's where the shootings come from.

26:58And there's a woman standing in the garden. I started talking to the woman and said, tell me this. I know you can't really talk. I says, but has your house been taken over? Because sometimes people would talk to you, you know. And she went, no, that happened last time. There was a bomb here. And straight away, the hairs on the back of my neck stood up. And I stopped and I just knew there was something going on. I stopped and started talking to her. If I hadn't talked to that woman and carried on walking to the back wall of this studio we're in, that's where the bomb was. so because I stopped and spoke to the woman the guy that had the command wire he saw me stop and pressed it early right the bomb went off so literally what's that five metres ten metres away if I'd have kept walking I definitely wouldn't be here now definitely wouldn't be here it would have killed me because it was quite a big bomb so that was how that was the closest shave I had that's the closest you've come to meeting your maker just seeing an explosion happen it's I can still see it I can still actually see that explosion it's not like you're seeing the films where there's like a big flash and there's a fireball and all that sort of thing.

27:57It was just like a massive amount of pressure and a massive amount of debris going flying across the road really, really quickly. Because I was just looking at it when it went off. And again, you know, by the grace of God, not a single person was hurt. But if I hadn't stopped, me and the other guys in my team would have been sitting right, would have been right on top of that. And what was the second time they tried to kill you? The second time was a day later. What a week. I know, I know. What a day. What a 48 hours. We were going up to the med centre to get checked out because obviously we'd been close enough to the bomb to affect our hearing and that sort of thing.

28:33And the IRA opened up on the vehicle room with an AK-47 and rattled a magazine at the Land Rover. It's incredible the amount of soldiers that I know and speak to. And when they're relaying stories that you only see in films, they manage to keep their sense of humour intact. They see the funny side. It looks hilarious. You know, I mean, and the other thing is my... Because it would scare the wits out of most. Well, do you know what? I'll be honest with you, right? I was never scared. You know, I enjoyed it. I thoroughly enjoyed the experience of being in that sort of situation. And, you know, there was other bomb attacks where we weren't as close and there was other incidents happening as well.

29:11But I actually, especially when you do something and you don't get killed. I mean, there's no bigger adrenaline rush than somebody trying to kill you and missing you by five metres. I mean, that's, you know, that was pretty cool. So I phoned my fiancé, who later became a wife, and I said, I said, Julius, I've just been blown up. She went, really? I went, yeah. She says, well, how are you talking to me then? I went, what? She said, you haven't been blown up. She said, you were near a bomb. I said, yeah, I was a cop. She's lived in Northern Ireland all life. She's like a Northern Ireland girl. And she just like, just made me feel about that big.

29:45You know what I mean? You didn't get blown up. You're all right. There's nothing wrong with you. Man up. Man up. But it was close enough. It was close enough to make me realise that people were actually seriously trying to kill us. Yeah, certainly too close for how I'd like to be. Yeah, yeah. What about the other side of the coin? Did you take anyone's life? No, I didn't. I was very lucky. And people might think that's a strange thing to say, saying I was very lucky. Not morally, because morally I could have... There was three different incidents where I had terrorists in my sights and I could have pulled the trigger and I didn't.

30:19And I'm glad I didn't. I'll tell you why. Well, one of them actually, one of them wasn't a terrorist. He was just an idiot that was out with a shotgun, having a rattle with a shotgun. And he's a very, very lucky man to be alive. But I'll tell you about that story first. So we're in Armagh on a patrol, Royal Patrol, and bang, bang, you know, two shots, you know. And like, can you tell whether it's a shotgun or a high-velocity rifle? To be honest, when you hear a shotgun going, you know, there is a difference. but when the adrenaline's going, you're just hearing rounds been fired, right? And then another two shots.

30:53So obviously he was shooting rabbits or whatever, right? So we located where the shooting was coming from and we went bursting through this hedgerow. And luckily I wasn't there because we made the rifles ready. We had SLRs then, made the rifles ready. So there's one in the chamber and went bursting through this hedgerow and this guy's standing there with a weapon like that, right? Now, if I'd have been the first man through the hedgerow, he was getting it. But luckily there was someone who was a bit more sensible than me. put the airfield weapon down, put the weapon down. The guy pissed himself.

31:22Still had a hole in the weapon. I go bursting through. I've got the safety catch-off. I'm just about to pull the trigger. He drops the shock and he says, I'm shooting rabbits. I'm shooting rabbits. It's all going on. But, you know, that's the narrow margin between life and death because if I'd have been the first one through the hedge, I'd have been a bit more with my ADHD and all the rest. So I'd have been bang, bang, bang. Oh, dear. Yeah, you know, but the guy that went through the hedge was a little bit older than me, a little bit more sensible, and I came after him. And, of course, we didn't shoot the guy.

31:53So that guy's lucky to be alive. But we'd have been dragged through the courts forever if we'd done that. This is what I'm saying. I'm lucky I didn't do it because they're bringing these SAS guys to court that did absolutely the right thing. I mean, they had proper advice by lawyers before any of these operations happened, and yet still they're getting persecuted for undoubtedly saving hundreds of people's lives by taking out some of the most ruthless and evil terrorists that this country's ever seen. I mean, these guys that the SAS killed were serial killers, right? And the SAS, it wasn't execution.

32:25They were going on planned operations. They were trying to get them to surrender. They didn't surrender. They fought back and the SAS killed them. They won the firefight, right? And these guys are still getting persecuted. There's another two occasions like that. One guy ran into a house with what looked like an AK-47. Again, I just didn't have a chance to get a round off. And there was another one in West Belfast where there was a guy probably 200, 300 metres away with a G3 rifle, ran across Kelly's Corner in Belfast in front of us, balaclava, combat jacket and a rifle. We knew if we shot him, by the time we got there, the rifle had gone, the balaclava had gone and we'd have murdered an innocent civilian.

33:02So we didn't shoot him. But under the rules of engagement, because you get a yellow card when you go to North and South, under the rules of engagement, we could have shot all three of those guys. And under those rules of engagement, you should have got away with it. But, you know, so I'm glad that I didn't kill anyone in Northern Ireland because the guys that did are unfortunately getting dragged through the courts because the system is just totally screwed up. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's draw something loose.

33:33Ay, yes! I like that. The Certified Fresh Series returns. Your boss. You always like this, or is this just an act? Oh, no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody! There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to live. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports.

34:18Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. So how does your time in Northern Ireland come to an end before you come back to Great Britain? You do a two-year tour. And let's say I met my wife. I met my wife the first day I was out in Northern Ireland. And she was just the best looking woman in the bar. And I was really drunk. And I was in a bar I shouldn't have been in. I was told, this was the first night I was out, I was told, don't go off with any of the local women because you can't trust them. You might get killed. And I was paralytic drunk. But I just saw this woman and thought, she's amazing.

34:56so anyway we started chatting she did way more chatting than I did because I was thinking she's going to shoot me in the head when I get back to her house so so but she but I just thought this is a really amazing amazing lady and fell in love with her first day love at first sight love at first sight love at first sight but I got back to the army camp and one of the bastards in the camp stole a number and ripped it up it was almost love at last sight it was almost love at last sight it was you know so I decided to to go and hunt her down because Northern Ireland's such a small place that I knew that I could find her.

35:29You know? So I got a taxi down to the town where she lived and I sit at the taxi driver and says, look, I think I know where this girl lives. Just take me up this entry here. And of course, all the entries in every housing estate in Northern Ireland look exactly the same. Spent about 50 quid on a taxi trying to find it. No chance whatsoever. Went down the town, thought, well, she might be in the town. She wasn't in the town. Got a taxi up to the police station because I thought I knew a name. This is how stupid it was, right? Went to the police and says, oh, do you know where such and such lives?

36:01I'm a soldier. Do you know where such and such lives? The cop says, go away, son. Go to the pub. Anyway, very dejected. Had a few beers. Got a taxi home that night and I'm telling the taxi driver the story. Lovely female taxi driver. It's a terrible thing happening. You know, looking for this girl and I've lost her number and all the rest of it. This woman just says, all right that's that story sounds very familiar she says you don't do you don't recognize me do i says no i says should i know you she says yeah you were drunk out your head in my car on saturday night i'm the one that picked you up from that girl's house i know exactly where she lives so the next day i got this same taxi woman to take take me down to julie who became my wife's house and uh she opened the door went well you're late and that's how yeah and it all blossomed from there I mean this may come as a great surprise to you and a lot of people watching but I'm a massive romantic and I love a love story so I thoroughly enjoyed that but let's get back to business yeah sorry I enjoyed that, it was lovely when you come back to Great Britain from Northern Ireland how did life change?

37:09yeah well I mean because that's got to be a complete dopamine pop Well, actually, this is an interesting one. So when I came back from... Certainly an adrenaline dump. Well, it was until the first... I got married in the meantime, so I married my wife. So me and my wife are in married quarters, right? So about second or third night, we're in married quarters. I heard a really loud bang. Now, when you're doing training exercise, you use things called thunder flashes. They make sort of simulate explosions and all that sort of stuff, like mini hang... Sound like hangry. I heard this bang. I went, that was a really loud thunder flash, right?

37:43So me and the wife lying in bed woke up and said, did you hear that? She went, no. Five minutes later, massive explosion. Window shake, right? This is in England. This is in Shropshire near Telford, Turnhill. And I jumped out of bed, looked out the window. There's a guy running across the grass in front of our house. I looked across where the camp was, just flames coming out of the camp. They'd blown the camp up. The IRA had come and put two bombs in the baths, like they did in the Brighton Hotel. They put two bombs in the baths. There was baths on the ground floors of these accommodation blocks, in the accommodation blocks, and blown two of those accommodation blocks to bits.

38:24There were 60 lads in each accommodation block, so 120 people in those accommodation blocks. What happened was the Paras, we were taking over from the Paras, the Paras rearguard saw them doing it, walked into those accommodation blocks, challenged them. The IRA pulled the gun on the Paras. The Paras didn't have rounds in the rifles because that's the way it was back then. Used to guard camps with a penny suppressor in your magazine. They didn't give you bullets in England. Don't even ask me. But so the Paras, Mexican standoff, the IRA guys run away. I think one of them was the guy I saw running across in front of my house.

38:57I legged it into the camp. Everything's on fire. And luckily for those guys, again, luckily, but all the grace of God, those guys, all of them got evacuated out of those blocks or else that would have been the biggest mass casualty attack that Paris had done. They'd have killed at least 100 people if those bombs in those two accommodation blocks had gone off. So that was my welcome back to England. The IRA didn't leave us alone. They followed us. And what about your box? Because you was heavyweight champ in the military. Yeah, I boxed for three years and finally, finally got the belt. I got battered the first two years of box.

39:29Finally fought some football hooligan from Leeds and battered him. And I was heavyweight champion in the battalion. And then I did all my, you know, did all my courses. I was, you know, I've done weapons instructors course, tactics course. So I've done all the courses to basically go right the way up to sergeant, right? But my wife, she didn't say anything, but I just knew the army life. She wasn't, it wasn't her, right? And that's, I'm not attacking army wives at all, but she was just, she was, it just wasn't her thing. So I bought, she got pregnant and I bought a house back in Northern Ireland.

40:02because I didn't want my child being brought up in the army environment. And were the troubles still going on? Oh, yeah, yeah. The troubles were still going on when I bought the house. Yeah, I mean, I was in Battles of the Force in Northern Ireland because Julie lived there, you know, right the way from 1987. So, which was very strange because when you were there as a soldier, you'd the biggest gang on the block had your back. You'd, you know, a battalion, you'd, you know, quick reaction forces. Even when you're out on the beer, you're out on the beer with a lot of squaddies. Sometimes you'd have somebody armed, you know, just sort of looking after, looking after everybody, just sort of sitting in the corner, not saying too much.

40:41And you were going to loyalist areas. So you were just like one gang. You know what I mean? You weren't, you weren't in a, well, you didn't feel you were in any danger. Obviously you probably were in a lot of danger. But when I went back on my own, I wasn't in a gang anymore. I was on my own. So I went from being part of a, the biggest gang on the block, the military, to being on your own in Northern Ireland and not knowing anybody, which was very, very unnerving because you've got no security briefs. You've got to suss out where you're going. You've got to be very, very, you become very hyper-aware, very, very hyper-aware because you know what the potential for disaster is.

41:17Many ex-soldiers were murdered by the IRA just because they were ex-soldiers. There was a para, and he was still serving in the paras at the time, black lad called Harrison, and he was with a girl from East Belfast. We weren't too far away from where I lived. And the IRA smashed into his house and shot him dead in front of his wife. So that sort of stuff happened a lot. So you were very aware that you were in danger. The whole time I've, you know, since I come out of the military, I've always checked under my car. I still do it. It's just, and I'm checking for a bomb. I'm not checking, you know, for anything else.

41:47I'm checking for an under-vehicle booby trap. And again, that was another method that the IRA used right the way through the troubles. So there's constantly, you constantly had a sort of tactical awareness when you were in Northern Ireland. Now in England, apart from when the camp gets blown up, which is quite unusual, you were a bit more chilled and a bit more relaxed. That must put you in a constant heightened state of paranoia. That's got to affect your mental health. It's really weird because I don't know if you've ever seen me when we do the demos. I am always extremely aware of what's going on around me.

42:17And that absolutely comes from probably, actually probably, not just that, probably been brought up in Middlesbrough as well because you still had that sort of threat. It wasn't a threat of murder, but it was a threat of violence all the time. Got to be on your guard. You've got to be on your guard all the time. So you just have that hyper-awareness and it just never leaves you. If I'm driving the car, even now in Belfast, if I come up to a set of traffic lights, I won't have the handbrake on, I'll have the foot on the clutch, it'll be in gear, you know, and I'll be sort of, you know, a few metres back from the, you know, from the traffic lights if it can be possible.

42:50I'm constantly thinking, if something happens, how can I get away here? And that was just the way I always was, you know. because of living. I mean, I was 18 when I went to Northern Ireland. So I've lived with this all my life. So people used to say to me about doing the movement, oh, you're not scared about speaking about Islam? No. No. Not in the least bit. So how old were you when you moved back to Northern Ireland? Well, Julie moved back first. So Julie moved back to Northern Ireland in 1990 when I bought the house. And then I was going to stay in the military and have a career in the military and just travel backwards and forwards.

43:25Now, what happens is when you're in a situation when your wife's at home and you're, you know, back with the lads, there's one or two things that are going to happen. You're either going to become a womanizing idiot or you're going to go on the drink and fight all the time. Well, I went on the drink and fought all the time because I wasn't, you know, I wasn't going to do anything like that. And that caused me a lot of problems in my career because obviously my career was set up. I mean, I'd done all the courses. You know, I was a good soldier. I was, you know, fit. I was strong. I could do everything.

43:54But my Achilles heel became what I was doing at the weekends when I was getting drunk because I was missing my wife. And then when Gemma came in, I was missing my daughter. I was missing my wife and my daughter. So drinking's surely not the problem. It's got to be the fighting. Yeah, it was a violence. It was because, and again, it's, it's a bit like, you know, it's a bit like when you get a bit of a reputation in, in Civvy Street. If you get a bit of reputation in the regiment, then people are going to come to you with things and, or, you know, or you're going to be expected to do a, you know, act in a certain way.

44:24If you're out, they're expecting you to sort things out, you know. So, and I'm not a tough guy. I'm not, I'm not, you know, trying to make out something I'm not, but that's, you know, that's just the way it was. In fact, there was one really bad incident, a couple of bad incidents. There was two recruits came up to me, and they're only young lads, probably 17 or something like that. And one of the corporals had been sexually abusing them, right? Now, I'd been busted at this time. I'd lost my rank for being a bad boy for fighting. You lost your rank? Lost my rank, yeah, yeah. I got busted out in private.

44:54Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, these two young recruits come up to me and said, oh, Corporal Such and Such, funny enough, he's an Arab guy, has been sexually assaulted. They didn't say that. They used other language. But I went, okay. So I went down and affronted the guy about it. And he made a joke about it. He said, oh, it was just a bit of fun. And I just went mental. And he was sitting in his bunk and he had a photograph of his wedding, him and his wife. And I took the photograph of him and his wife and I smashed it over his head and I just battered him. Which I thought was fair enough because he's sexually assaulted kids.

45:31even though even though these these guys these guys were soldiers there was still to me there were still kids i was like 24 or something at the time and these these are just young young boys you know what i mean and um so i battered him and some of the guys in his platoon obviously didn't know what was happening i had a reputation of being a bit of a you know a bit lively and i look around and there's these three lads standing there one's got a um a bed leg you know with like a big square spiky bit on the end of it. One's got a broom handle and the other one's got a pickaxe handle, right? And I was like, oh no, I've got a problem.

46:06So I went out into the hallway and I thought I've just got to fight because if I go down, they're going to kill me. So I just, the first guy, he hit me over the head with the metal bed leg, that scar, and it just opened up and I couldn't see because there was blood just gushing out and covered in blood. But I just stayed on my feet, fought, fought, fought and got myself out the accommodation block got to the um the guard room and uh said to the guy in the guard room he says what's happened i just fell over in the shower usual stuff you know got taken the med center got got all patched up but that really rattled me because i thought that was actually i probably came closer to dying there at the hands of fellow soldiers than i did when the ira ira tried to kill me with the with the because i didn't get injured when the bomb went off but these guys near beat me to death you know and i was in the right because i was sticking up for kids that had been you know sexually sexually so I got all those guys back but I mean but that was that was a downward spiral and and and the army can be very violent probably not so much now but back then you know you could you could have you could be fighting everybody all the time and and I thought do you know what I've got to get out of this and alcoholism is rife in it you know in a form of self-soothing yeah I don't think I was an alcoholic but I was a binge drinker you know so because I was still doing all my fitness I was still doing all the stuff but I was binge drinking I'd lost definitely lost my way you know and it and it was because i wasn't you know i wasn't with my wife because she was back home in northern ireland and i thought that was a good thing to do to buy a house and to do the right thing and give her a good life but it it actually really really badly affected me and wrecked my career and i love i love soldiering that was i i was just that was just my thing and i'm sure i'd have gone on to do a lot more than that than i had done but yeah so that so basically you know there's other things happened as well but i kind of went that's it i'm I'm done with the army.

47:54And I bought myself out. And that was, you know, I went back to settling in Northern Ireland. I thought, when I get back to Northern Ireland, I'm not going to get involved in any of that nonsense. Because one of the things about, if you marry into the sort of loyalist community, it'd be very easy to get dragged into various different groups, especially as an ex-soldier. Shortly after I came out of the army, there was guys came to me from a certain paramilitary group and said, look, you'd be very useful to us. You know, you're a weapons instructor. you know we know that you're fairly aggressive um you know um you could have your own team and all this and the other and i just went nah it's not for me you know so so i i didn't want to get involved in anything like that so i thought i'm gonna i'm gonna do right thing i'm gonna get a good job i'm gonna settle down i'm gonna make myself a middle class a nice middle class life and and that's what i did i just i just screwed the nut in and started working didn't get involved in any violence kept myself to myself had a lot of friends from lots of different backgrounds to me the best way to deal with people is make friends with them you know there's no point in trying to be you know confrontation you never show anyone any fear but also be very friendly and very nice to everybody that's the best way to get on in life so I started started in business doing sales had a double glazing business for a time started getting involved in advertising marketing and that's the way my career went and I was very successful at it I was making not massive amounts of money but I was making enough money to to give my wife and kids a nice lifestyle, nice holidays and all that sort of stuff.

49:22But there was something still wrong. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Jar something loose. Ay yes! I like that. The Certified Fresh Series Returns. Your boss. You always like this? Or is this just an act? Oh no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody! Has it happened? There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig. The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to live. This episode is brought to you by Chat GPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast.

50:02Have you guys heard about Chat GPT work? It's the new way to use Chat GPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give Chat GPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. In your mind? Yeah. PTSD? I think it was. I think it was. I mean, when I've read about the symptoms, because back then nobody, nobody knew about PTSD. It was just, you got out of the army and you cracked on. Plus it wasn't macho to talk about your feelings, was it?

50:38No, no, exactly. I wouldn't have anyone to talk to, you know, but my wife was very good because she knew there were things that just weren't quite right. You know, aggression sort of, I suppose, I suppose it was probably quite lonely as well because I'd lost this career that I loved doing and gave me real purpose in life and that had all gone, you know. And she was very, very supportive. And I would have, one of the problems I had was I'd wake up in the middle of the night, so I'd have this recurring dream that I was, do you ever see this film 1971 about the Troubles? No. Okay. well it was made way after after i had this experience but the film 1971 if you get a chance to watch it you'll you'll get where you'll get what this is about so i had a recurring dream that i was in west belfast on my own separated from my unit right this was the dream that i had like almost every night and and i know the ira were chasing me and at the end of it the big guys with balaclavas around me and then i wake up in the middle of night like shouting ah they're coming to get me, you know, and getting really aggressive, running around the house bollock naked, you know, shouting, and Julie would have to come down, Richard, calm down, there's nothing, there's nothing going on here, you're okay, and get me back to bed, and that went on for, until 1996, right, 1996, I had an experience, and again, make of this what you will, three separate nights, I stopped drinking by this stage, I was, you know, real straight go, I wasn't doing drugs, never have done drugs not my thing and three separate nights I saw an image of Christ crucified on my bedroom wall right lying in bed my wife's lying next to me she's not seeing it but I'm seeing it now and I wasn't I wasn't you know when I say I had sort of symptoms of PTSD I wasn't it wasn't affecting my day to day life so I wasn't in a situation where I couldn't function it was just a night terrace it was just a night terrace right now after that happened because then I straight away I realised Christianity is real Like you can't just see, because I would have been very sort of agnostic, not really interested.

52:37I wasn't, I wasn't like, I wasn't like one of these idiot atheists that's like digging Christians out all the time. I was just like, I just don't really believe it. You know what I mean? It was like, it's, it's for some people. It's not for me. That's where I'm at. I don't, I don't, in fact, I actually support the Christian movement. Yeah, exactly. That's what, that's what I'd be like. I would have been very sympathetic to Christianity, but I just. I call it a Christian movement. Exactly. Exactly. I wasn't, I wasn't convinced, Liam. Do you know what I mean? But when something like that happens, like you can't argue with, I went, okay, this is real.

53:05And I started to go to church and I became Christian and so on and so forth. But immediately after that experience, those night terrors stopped. Never had them since. So – See, this is why I'm – when you say agnostic, I'm very much that way inclined. I'm not going to dig Christians out. If anything, I support Christianity because I think it's desperately needed back in the UK. But when people like you tell me stories like that and it worked for you and it soothed and eased your pain and you made sense of whatever it was you were going through, it gets my vote. Yeah. And until it happens to me, I'll remain agnostic.

53:38Well, I was just going to say that, Liam. And the thing is, it's, you know, I don't believe in atheists. I believe that because I was agnostic. I just didn't know. Do you know what I mean? I couldn't say for sure it was. I couldn't say for sure it wasn't true. Once something like that happens to you, you know it's true. And, of course, there's this idea of God choosing people and God coming to people. So if God's going to come to you, Liam, you ain't going to be able to stop him. You ain't going to be able to explain it away. If God wants you, he'll get you. Well, do you know what? If God does find me, I'll shout it from the rooftops.

54:09People will know that he's found me. I know. I won't be subtle about it. No. But, yeah, so far I'm yet to meet the geezer. I'm talking about meeting geezers. Talk to me about meeting Tommy Robinson. Because you've stuck by him for years. So talk to me about how you met him and also what was it about him that stood out? And I also want to know how you nearly killed Tommy Robinson. That's a good story. Okay, so I got in touch with Tommy through a guy called Bill Weir. Bill's passed on now. Bill was involved in the veterans. Bill was in the EDL with Tommy. Great guy. Geordie lad, very, very quiet.

54:43Total, total gentleman. And Bill knew Tommy. Now, I followed Tommy's career because obviously I've had a thing with Islam since the 80s because of my experience with Pakistani Muslims. I wanted to know what was going on. And I'd done a lot of digging and investigating and looking at Islam. So when Tommy started the EDL and he did the Newsnight thing with Paxman, I thought, that lad has got it. That lad's brilliant. But what put me off the EDL was when they pull the balaclavas on. I'm just coming from Northern Ireland. I'm going, lads, don't do the balaclavas. We've just been through 30 years of this.

55:16This is not... And I know why they did it, because they were trying to hide their identities from idiots that might try and do them harm. And they were young, weren't they? They were young. They were young. I mean, they were kids, weren't they? They were really, really young. Young and scared, but brave at the same time. Brave, yeah. I had so much respect for them. And I knew what Tommy was. So when we started doing the veterans thing, Veterans Against Terrorism in 2017, a lot of the veterans were very, very wary of Tommy. Oh, he's this, he's this, he's that. I said, no, he's not. I said, look, I followed his career for a long time.

55:42I said, I'm telling you now, he's all right. Same with the football lads. but what about this? What about that? Because they just didn't, because they got very, a lot of the lads that got involved in that then, they didn't fully understand what they were getting involved in, right? Whereas I knew exactly what I was getting involved in. When I went and made my first speech with Veterans Against Terrorism in 2017, I went to Gatwick Airport and I sat down and just this weight came upon me. I thought, oh, you've really done it now. You've just wrecked your life. And I had, I was right. But Tommy, so I reached out to Tommy, I think.

56:11I think I reached out to him. And because we're doing the big demo in October with the veterans of the football ads and I was fortunate enough to get speaking at that demo. And Tommy wanted to do an interview with me. And I went, yeah, I'm up for that. So we did an interview and because the veterans were so wary of Tommy, they'd really like, you know, before I went and did the interview, they were saying, careful what you say to Tommy. And I'm like, no, he's all right. I'm just going to go and talk to him. He's just, he's one of us. You know what I mean? So I did the interview, but I think I made a bit of a, a bit of a mess of the interview, to be honest with you.

56:48I wasn't myself. I wasn't my normal self. And a phone told me, I says, mate, I says, I think I made a bollocks for that interview. He says, I says, I know you're editing it with the lads. He says, can you make sure it doesn't look as bad as I think it was? And he went, yeah, of course I will, bro. And he's like, and he did, he cut it so well that I didn't look like Dick. So he made me look quite good. So he did me a real favour. And from that there showed me the measure of him because he could have been like, he could have tried to be smart or try to prove a point, you know, and he didn't. He didn't.

57:17And then, of course, we had the Phil Campion thing. I don't know if you remember that. I do remember that very, very well. Now, Phil's, I like Phil. I think he's a good lad, but he really dug Tommy out, right, on a podcast. It was totally unnecessary. And Tommy phones me up and he says, he says, look, he says, he's done this. He says, you know, he says, I could bury him. I says, tell you what, don't do anything. I says, don't mention it to anyone. Don't say anything about him. He's an SAS guy. If you go against him, there'll be blowback on you. Other people will do it for you. And I think you did.

57:46I think you did a video. I did. Yeah. I was very disappointed in him. Yeah. But I don't hold grudges. No, I don't. No, Phil's a great guy. Phil is a great guy. Everybody can make mistakes. I've invited Phil to come on the podcast. You should get him on. He's a good... I've asked him to come on. He's agreed. But then he went quiet. I think he may have agreed, then realised that it was me that called him out after that occasion. But I don't hold any grudges. And also, I'll probably apologise for some of the things I said as well. We should be pulling together. But I feel at that moment in time, he didn't really pull together.

58:16And so I said, Tommy says, I says, the best thing to do is let other people fight your battles. You know, I says, there's a, there's a verse in scripture says, vengeance is mine, save the Lord, leave it to God to sort people that your enemies out. You don't have to do anything. You just sit there. Leave it to Liam. Leave it to Liam. Yeah. Leave it to Liam. That was a good video by the way. But, but yeah, so, so all that was going on. I hate infighting, you see. Yeah. So it infuriated me because I think Christ, we are up against the ropes. Yeah. It's like, You, Britain, we are fucked. Pulled together.

58:47So when I see divisiveness... It's relentless. Unnecessary. It's relentless. Well, you and me know this. All the right-wing street movement, the division, the ego. Now, there can be division on ideological matters, as you know. With me, I've got red lines, and when it comes to ideology, and that's where I put the divide. I'm not going to join forces with Nazis. I'm just not going to do it. I'm never going to do it. And you wouldn't either. We're not like that. But with what Phil did, yeah, it was wrong. And look, the bottom line is it is what it is. It's ancient history. But what I said to Tommy was just don't respond.

59:21Just leave it and you'll win. And he did win. He absolutely won history. And that's happened time and time again. Every time something appears to be potentially going to destroy Tommy, it just completely turns around. Think about the guy in the station where it looked like Tommy's maybe he's going to go down for GBH with intent, like 15 year stretch or whatever it is. And he walks away from it because he was innocent. But the media was spinning it. Everybody's spinning it. And I thought, no, he's going to be all right because he always is, you know. But yeah, I mean, we've had some brilliant times and I'll always stand by him because we are ideologically on the same page, but not just that.

1:00:01He's a good lad. It's not just a question of whether we agree with people. He's not going to do you over. He's not going to stitch you up. He's one of us. Well, here's something I've never really spoke about on the podcast before, because me and Tommy become friends post EDL. So I was never part of the EDL. So people say, oh, you're EDL. Now, Tommy's movement of the EDL back in the day was monumental. Hundreds of thousands of people. And amongst big groups like that, you get your lost souls, you get your weirdos, you get your wrong-uns. And you can't police everybody. You can't. So Tommy always gets the blame for people that were part of that movement that have got a very, very sketchy past.

1:00:43Yeah. Well, I say there's a lot in the scheme of things. There's a percentage of scum that are in jail and rightly so. And the thing is what people need to realise is when you're at demos, you've been to countless. Yeah. You can't help who comes up to you and says, can we have a picture? And you can't be rude and say, no, I'm not having a picture with you. It's like these people are supporting you and the vast majority of them are going to be kind, warm people, desperate for hope and solution. But you're going to get these dogs, these scumbags that there were scumbags in the EDL. All of them have been jailed, but some of them have been photoed with Tommy.

1:01:18But Tommy didn't ask for the photo. Tommy didn't build this big bond, this friendship with. And people love to add their interest to the story. Oh, look at you. Look at all your friends. They weren't Tommy's friends. They followed Tommy and you can't help who follows you. So I just, yeah, if you want to echo that or anything that you've seen that resembles that. I mean, what happens is Tommy, a lot of people, you see the parasites that basically attach themselves to Tommy for their own aggrandizement or for their own ideological reasons. They try to push him in a certain way or to follow a certain agenda.

1:01:52And one of the things about Tommy is he's a very open and welcoming person. He's very trusting. I'm like that as well. And it's not a good trait, to be honest with you, because you can get really badly burned. I've been burned. We've all been burned by people that we probably shouldn't have trusted. And Tommy is a very open book. You know, what you see is what you get. He's not, in fact, actually, I've said this before, the more I get to know him, the more I like him. You know what I mean? Like, you know, there's some people you get to know. I normally have like sort of five-year shelf life with someone.

1:02:22and if you suddenly realise that you can't stand the person that you think is really the best thing since sliced bread. But Tommy's not like that. Tommy's kind. He's very kind. He's kind. He's very kind and I think he's very open and he's open to ideas and he's open to cheeky gets like me saying things to him that I probably shouldn't say. He's not an idiot and he's very intelligent. And he has his character flaws like we all do, Liam. At the end of the day, he's not a perfect man. I made a speech once when he was in the Old Bailey, and I said, he's not the Messiah, and he can be a very, very naughty boy, you know.

1:03:02And that's true. And we're all like that. We're all just flesh and blood. We're all flawed human beings. But in the overall scheme of things, he is the best man to do what needs. Nobody can do what Tommy can do. So why did you try and nearly kill him then? I didn't try to kill him. It would have been manslaughter, right? so basically what it was we were doing a demo in Telford right and it was a really big demo so it was I think it was the first um Rape of Britain film that we'd made which is another story we'd love to talk about that but the um we made these great films and we were in the pub we made a big mistake we decided to go to the pub the night before the demo instead instead of the night after the demo so it's about one o 'clock in the morning right we're all completely pissed out of our heads and Tommy's room is opposite mine, like on the top floor of this hotel.

1:03:50Right. So he's blitzed. Right. I mean, properly just completely pissed out of his head. And I went, mate, you're speaking in the morning. I says, you're going to have to get some sleep. No, no, be all right. Be all right. He says, no, you're going to have to get some sleep. So I picked him up, right. Put him over my shoulder and started walking up this spiral staircase to the, you know what's coming, don't you? Started walking up this spiral staircase to the top floor. I don't know whether it was Andy Saxon or who was, I can't remember who was there. Somebody said something to me. I turned around to look at them.

1:04:23I forgot Tommy was over my shoulder and dropped him. Right. So he goes, I mean, it was like, I don't know how, it felt like he fell down about 30 stairs. It was probably three, but it felt like he'd fell a long way and landed on his neck, not even on his head, on his neck. And as he landed, I looked at him and went, I've just killed Tommy Robinson. And for a minute, he didn't move. And then he just jumped up and started laughing. He's like the Terminator, isn't he? He is. He is. So I went downstairs, picked him up again, took him to his room, dropped him on his bed, and that was it. And the next morning, he was alive.

1:04:54And he's still alive. Yes, thankfully. But imagine all the kudos I'd have got with the Muslims. Oh, blimey, yeah. I would have been alhamdulillah. You'd have had to have reverted. I would, you know. You mentioned the Rape of Britain. Yeah. And you mentioned Telford. Yeah. So it doesn't have to be that one, but there's been a lot of demos that you've been to. Yeah. So you've seen the two-tier policing. And is there any really memorable demos, for better or for worse? Well, the last one, Liam. I mean... That's a great one to discuss, actually, the last one, because that's the most relevant, and it's only going to get bigger and better and more unified as we move forward, I feel.

1:05:29The people behave so well. I mean, there was a peace over that event, Liam. You know, it was just such a peaceful event. Nobody was going there for any aggro, even where the police lines got broken by people pushing and shoving. There was no real violence against the police. If you've got thousands of people pushing against you, people are going to get hurt. But it wasn't an aggressive attack on the police, if you know what I mean, which is how it's been framed by some media outlets. Oh, yeah. I think most people that tune in to me know not to believe the mainstream media by now. I hope so anyway.

1:06:00But, yeah, a police-related question. As a soldier, say back in the day, let's just say 20, 30 years ago, did soldiers and police officers have mutual respect? Absolutely. Okay. Well, in Northern Ireland we did because, well, the police had to respect it because we were saving their lives. The police could not go out on patrol in Northern Ireland without a team of 12 soldiers around them in West Belfast. Two police officers would have 12 soldiers around them. So that was the level of protection that they needed to go out on patrol in West Belfast. And with respect comes trust. Yeah, absolutely.

1:06:34Okay, so the question is, current day, as an ex-soldier, do you trust the police? Some. I trust some of them, to a certain extent, not fully. A lot of them I don't. I mean, I've had some very, very sinister experiences with the police in the last month, which I haven't talked about publicly. I've told people privately about it, but I think I'm ready to talk about it publicly. I when I came to Stansted airport in the day before the demo a cop grabbed hold of me as I was coming off the plane now you never get pulled on a domestic flight it just doesn't happen right so I got off domestic flight this cop pulls me and says I'm from counterterrorism I want to speak to you and I was like are you holding me no are you arresting me no well I don't want to speak to you I'm gonna just go on my way oh it's in your best interest to speak to us I said no I don't think it is, right?

1:07:28So I batted him off and it rattled me, to be honest with you Liam, because I just knew there was a smell about it that wasn't right. Okay? Two weeks later, I was going to England on business, right? I arrived at the car park at Belfast International Airport, and this is what I mean by being sinister. And again, we're talking about awareness. I clocked these two guys. I got out of my car. Two guys, maybe 200 metres away, up the top. and I went, they're coppers. I just knew they were coppers and I knew they were coming for me. So I walked up to go to the airport, not even out of the car park, these two cops come up to me, says, oh, we're from C3, I think it said C3, which is RUC Special Branch, right?

1:08:12Which basically what they do is they are counter-terrorism police, right? And they said, we want to talk to you. I said, well, I don't want to talk to you guys. He says, what do you want to talk to me about? oh we just think you could help us i went oh oh so you want me you want me to be an asset then is that what you're saying and they were just like yeah we do i said well look lads i said be honest with you i'm not buying what you're selling and i had a conversation with them i said look lads i said i'm going to tell you what i am i said i'm a political activist i says i work with tommy robinson as you know i says because obviously if you talk to me you know everything about me i says everything we're doing is peaceful legal and legitimate and there's no reason for me having in discourse with you.

1:08:53So no, it's not about, it's not about what's happening. It's not about what's happening in England. We're concerned about what's happening in Northern Ireland. I said, well, look, I says, let me reiterate then. What we're doing in Northern Ireland is perfectly legal, legitimate and peaceful. And it's really none of your business what we're doing because we're not terrorists. And they kept saying, we know you're not terrorists, but we just want to have an angle on what's happening. I says, lads, I says, I'm being, because you try to be polite because at the end of the day, these people can ruin your life.

1:09:20These sneaky beaky coppers can create all sorts of a firestorm for you. I says, I'm not buying what you're selling. You're very good salespeople. I've got to get my flight. Goodbye. Now, to me, Liam, that is extremely sinister, right? Because I'm not part of any criminal conspiracy. So why are undercover coppers coming to me and trying to recruit me and turn me into an informant for whatever it is that they're trying to achieve? And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's draw something loose. Ay, yes! I like that.

1:09:52The certified fresh series returns. Your boss. You always like this? Or is this just an act? Oh no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody! There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to live. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports.

1:10:36Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. Yeah, who knows what they're plotting? It rattled me because what it made me realize was that the deep state is taking a very close interest in what we're doing. And that means that they're threatened by what we're doing, which is a good thing because it means if they're threatened, they know that we've got a chance of winning and winning peacefully. And so knowing what I know about Northern Ireland, I just know that basically the deep state will try and destabilise what we're trying to achieve peacefully in Northern Ireland.

1:11:14So my antenna are massively up now. No, I can well imagine. Well, on a final note then, because I know that in your mind you've got solutions of how Great Britain can be saved. Because it needs saving. At the moment, it's got no pulse. How can Great Britain be saved? Do you know, we've got all the tools there. We've got a toolbox, Liam, right? And I'm very frustrated. I'm going to be honest with you. This isn't a dig at you. It's a dig at all of us that have got social media profiles. All the social media actors in this space have got a toolbox. And inside that toolbox is Tommy Robinson, the Unite the Kingdom movement, Ben Habib and Advance UK, the Pledge, which obviously is the ideological backbone of our movement.

1:12:02And of course, we've got Christianity as well, but nobody's going to use Christianity. God will use Christianity. Man can't use Christianity, but a Christian ethos is massively important to what we're doing because it'll mean that things are done peacefully and they're done morally right. Okay, so the Unite the Kingdom movement and Advance UK have the potential to save this country, along with the pledge as the ideological backbone. And nobody is putting their hands in that toolbox and pulling those tools out. Tommy's doing it a bit. Me and Paul Thorpe are doing it. You've done it because you've had Ben on your podcast.

1:12:32But there are big players out there. And again, I'm asking a question. You keep complaining all the time about how bad the country is. We've got tools in that toolbox that can save the country. because if we get a political party that is strong enough to win the next general election, because we all know that reform are not the answer. We know that. Anybody that thinks that reform are the answer, you need to go and read a bit, right? Because we know Farage, we know what they're about. So my challenge to everybody that's watching this podcast, and we know all the big players that will watch it, get behind Advance, get behind Ben, because if we do, we can absolutely save the country.

1:13:09So if we got a majority at the next general election, a stonking majority, say, let's say reform collapse, which they could do at any time, or people realise that advance is the solution and reform isn't, and we get a 300 seat majority at the next election, we can then start making the change that we need to make. If we have a street movement that gets millions of people all over the country going to different events all over the country, peaceful, wonderful, multicultural events where everybody comes together in love and harmony to promote our message, which is a message of peace and a message of tolerance and a message of togetherness.

1:13:48Uniting the kingdom. Calvin Robinson came up with the name. Uniting the kingdom is a brilliant name for it because it's bringing everybody in the kingdom together. So if we can marry those two things together properly in a proper political and cultural way with Christianity as the driving force behind it, not people becoming Christians. We're not here to evangelise anyone. Not saying people become Christians, but people realise that the Christian culture of the United Kingdom is what's made us great. if you get those three strands together including the pledge we've got a chance of really stopping this country descending into civil war and not just a chance I think it's the only chance Liam if we don't pull those levers we're going to be in for all sorts of pain and again this whole podcast we've majored a lot about Northern Ireland if what happened in Northern Ireland was repeated in the United Kingdom it would be a million times worse because the state do not have the ability or the security apparatus that they had in Northern Ireland to keep a lid on the sort of disturbances that could happen.

1:14:59You could have hundreds of thousands of people in this country killed if we don't get a grip. And that's why if somebody's looking for a civil war and wants a civil war, they're absolute idiots. Now, don't get me wrong. If there was a conflict and my country was in danger, even as a 57-year-old man, I'd lose the belly and I would fight for my country now without missing a heartbeat. So I'm not a coward or a pacifist. What I'm saying is we need to use every other avenue possible to make sure that we solve these problems peacefully. And it can be done if you get the right government and if you get the right moral and cultural background for the whole country.

1:15:34Okay, well, what I'm going to do is I don't want civil war. Neither do I. But I will be the first one to fight if we enter into that situation. I will be at each other's shoulder. And the public have my word on that. Politically, I'm still sat on the fence looking for the solution and I'm ready to pounce. But because I speak to so many people, my eyes and ears need to be open. But what I am going to do is off the back of your recommendation and your solution, I'm going to put a Ben Habib thumbnail here for you to go and watch me interview him and you can make up your own minds. I'm going to put Richard's links in the description to his YouTube channel.

1:16:11So please go and follow him and subscribe to his channel and his X account. As you can see, he's good stuff. He's fought for the country. He's very passionate. Like and subscribe to this channel and keep watching wherever the thumbnail appears of Ben Habib's interview with me. Richard. Liam, thanks so much, mate. Good help, sir. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:16:34This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. Do you hear that? That sound, right? That means that summer's officially here. It means that grown adults just sprint into the street for a frozen dessert shaped like a cartoon.

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