The BEST Interview Ever - Paul Danan Life Story: RIP 1978 - 2025

27:17Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro Plans. I feel your pain. I'm not over here. Maybe have a chat with him this weekend. He lives in America, but I will. Zoom him. Andrew, I've got to talk about something that happened 30 years ago. Not quite over here. But saying that betrayal will last a lifetime. Right. 100%. Yeah. How many women have you slept with in your life? Oh, that's a good question. I don't know. I don't know. Tens, hundreds, thousands? I think we're definitely in the, yeah, in the higher range. Are we closer to a thousand than a hundred? I think, yeah, we're definitely more than a thousand, yeah.

28:08It stands to reason you are sold from Hollyoaks and you're a handsome man. Yeah, I just enjoyed. Making love. Yeah, and being with you. Yeah, and I think there's a bad thing, a flip side to that, is because now I really miss it. What, making love? Yeah. Why, have you gone celibate? No, it just don't happen like it used to. And you have to be really careful that if you're looking at, like, 25, 30, you know, and they look fucking 20, 25, you know, is that wrong? Is that right? Are you all right to even kind of fancy someone, let's say 25, 30? They're not really on your level because you're 45. and you're talking about Chippy and Chevenier and they don't know what the fuck that is.

28:55Music tastes are completely different. Absolutely. Films. Yeah. You're watching Rita Sue and Bob 2 and they've never heard of it. Oh, you called your son De Niro. Oh, why? Because you think he looks like money or something. No, Robert De Niro. Oh, who's that? Right, you're gone. If you don't know who Robert De Niro is, fuck off. I'm glad that your age bracket there, that made you feel an element of concern was 25 or 30. I'm the same. But now, you know, we get people in their 30s and 40s, not even questioning, should I get into an entanglement with a 20, 21-year-old? I mean, I'm 44. Right. I would have nothing in common with a 30-year-old.

29:36Literally nothing at all, let alone a 20-year-old. So I'm glad that you said 25 and 30. But the thing is, I know I'll end up, please God, if I end up married and whatever with someone for a while. because I think that's why I've really, like, stayed single is just, like, trying to find the right person, you know, really the one that I really gel with that's got my back and I've got theirs. Future understanding. Yeah. It's essential, isn't it? Yeah. But I do think that I am looking more at the 30 range because for some reason I just, yeah, I need to be attracted. I'm not saying that there are 40-year-olds that I'm not attracted to, but there's something in me that...

30:14But are you still highly sexed? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think the tablets and the drugs and the medication has probably not really helped. But thank God it's never really hindered too bad. Because when you was in Hollyoaks, what was that, early 20s? No, no, I was younger. I went to, my mum said, do your GCSEs. Then we could talk about drama school. I got into Italia Conti, but it was very expensive. And my dad was also sending my brother to uni. But he said, look, I'll pay for it if you really want to do it. They knew 90 % of actors are out of work. Do you know what I mean? But he did it. And I went to Conti's, got a degree in performing arts because they said you've got to do everything, not just acting.

30:55You've got to learn how to sing, dance, move, you know, elocution, stage fighting, everything. Musical theatre, double work, tap, jazz, modern, fucking hell, ballet. All right, really? But it was the best thing I ever did. Do you know what I mean? It was incredible, man. It just blew me away, and I knew I'm going to do this. I'm going to make my dad proud and make that money worth it. And the minute I left, I got with Sylvie Young again, and then within six months, she had me in an audition for Hollyoaks. And I knew, I saw what it was, and I thought, yeah, it's like 90210. But British, like, this is cool, man.

31:37Beverly Hills 90210. Yeah, that's what it was. That's a blast from the past. Yeah, that's what Hollyoaks was. That's what they were trying to copy a bit. so I knew he'd done Grange Hillfield Redmond and I knew about Brookside and that was when I was doing my method acting and Lee Strasberg was the kind of I don't want to say inventor because I don't know if he invented it but Strasberg is the main guy and Anne Strasberg opened a school in Camden and I went to that school and David Bennett was my teacher who trained with De Niro Abbotino so fuck man I was in and I just got hooked Once I like something, I want more of it, anything.

32:15So Method was your drug? So Method was my drug. So then when I went for the audition for Hollyoaks, I was like making all these method acting exercise noises. And one of them is like just where you go, ha! You just really let it out. You just let out all your, just everything that's inside you to clear your mind to become whoever you're about to become and play. and the daughter of the casting director went, Mum, there's a man in the, like, that's about to audition, he's making all these noises. What's wrong with him? She went, no, that's a real actor, darling. And I got the part, didn't I? I went, you know, I have all those hundreds of people, they were looking for a new family and I did an improv in front of Phil Redmond, it was like Elimination Day up in Liverpool Paul, this was like the third time of being called back and people were leaving and they're like, no, Paul, you stay.

33:14And in the end, we had to do a scene where I was coming back. I'd not been home for days. The police were after me. My mum was going crazy. I walk in the pub and we just started improvising. And we were improvising and she was screaming and then she slaps me. I slap her. No, or did I not slap her? I didn't slap her back. No, she slaps me. Then we're crying. and Phil Redman just was like, oh, wow. Like, you know, because it was believable. And he was like, hmm. And, you know, I didn't know and I got on the train and we were looking at, like, the other guy that was also down to, you know, and the other mum and the other sister.

33:52We're like, but you've got that accent. How's that going to work? And in the end he just jumbled it all up. He didn't give a fuck. He just went with the actors that blew him away. And Sylvia phoned me and said, Paul, pack your bags. You're going to Liverpool. and that was the day my life changed. How did that feel? It was amazing to actually finally, you know, I always said I was always just in the middle, to finally be there and to actually win. It was like I'd never won anything apart from that Oratory Award. Do you know? It was really amazing. It was a big deal, man. And I could see how proud my parents were, like all that hard work, you know, bless my dad.

34:30So, yeah, moving up there was a big deal. It was a massive thing. and I was in a boy band at the time. I was their rapper, obviously. And we were doing all right. We could have got a deal, but like, you know, one of the guys got arrested, so he's not alive anymore. And these were two gay guys. One, he turned gay, actually. And I'm the rapper, but we did gay clubs. We did, and that was my experience around, and Conti's was around gay people. And I loved it because they were so out there and they didn't care. And they were like the girls. I could chat to them, do you know? And then you're like, come on.

35:04But it didn't, I didn't, it wasn't my thing. I wasn't gay. I wasn't, you know, and I think a lot of, I don't know, as I said earlier, yeah. But I just knew who I was and what I wanted. And I just, I was like, you know, I was like the Fonz, you know. Hey. Yeah, yeah. But I couldn't be that chilled because I had ADHD, little did I know. So I was like, hey. You know. But yeah, man. And then, yeah, and then going up to Liverpool and everything and then getting there and seeing the cast, thinking, I hope they're not all flash. That was my one big thing I thought in my head. I hope they're really not flash.

35:44What were they like? They were so lovely. Cool. Yeah. And Will Mellor just comes up to me and he's got this like little convertible BMW and he's like, let me show you around town. So he's like doing 150 miles an hour and I'm just like, oh my God. because it was just cool to drive fast, I suppose. And we just got on really well. He took me under his wing. And I love Will for that. And we've stayed friends ever since. But I was a little stoner. So I was still like this kind of, you know, stoner, raver. So I was like this modern hippie, whatever, fuck knows. And suddenly I'm on this TV show and these will look like quite cocaine-y people.

36:26It's not very ganger and ecstasy and hugging and acid. It was like a lot more like, you know, money, cars. But they weren't up their own arses because we're up north. And that's the great thing about up north is they're fucking down to earth, man. And everyone was like a family. The crew were as important as the actors. The actors were as important. Everyone just partied together, loved together, fucked together, worked together. It was mental. It was like I couldn't keep up with it. It was so good. And so for my head, I was constantly busy. And that's what I like being is busy and always having something to do.

37:10So it turns out that the two people that were playing my sisters were at Italia Conti with me. So I was like, oh, this is amazing. So we all lived together. me and the two girls and it was brilliant. And no, I didn't cop off with any of them. They stayed like my sisters because I was method. So I just really made them my sisters. And that was the boundary, you know. What about the barmaids? Yeah, I was known as the extras whore because I would literally every day, they would have like these models from Nemesis was the model company, which was where they got the extras from because they wanted beautiful people in the background.

37:54And every day I was just like, hi, hi, these models, man. It was unbelievable. So then I want to do my best, you know. So I'd do my scenes or whatever and then I'd be like, what are you doing for lunch? And they'd be like, oh, nothing. What, why? I'll come back to my, you know. And every day I'd have a date with a different girl. And it was just brilliant for four years. No, because I ended up getting engaged with someone. But before I met Rachel, which was this girl I met who was the love of my life, she, you know, I really got that time to have a good fun and enjoy being a star, I suppose. But they never told you how to handle fame, women, money.

38:40Did the fame sweep you off your feet? Because, well, everyone's just blowing smoke up your arse and you're trying to stay down to earth hippie, right? So it really, like, shit, this is suddenly people recognise me. Suddenly I've got, like, all this money in the bank and I want to buy some clothes, no? But my addictions, right, funnily enough, weren't playing out. Maybe with women they were, but mainly it's because I had work. So because I had it taken care of, I didn't need to destroy myself with drink or drugs or anything. I did party and it did get worse. And the day I started there, I'm not going to say who, passed me an eight for cocaine.

39:29And I didn't even really know about coke. And I was like, all right. And he's like, welcome. I was like, wicked. All right. And, you know, it's mad, isn't it? Was that the first day at Hollyoaks? Yeah. First party? First day, first read-through. I hadn't even filmed anything. So it wasn't even a party? There was a party that night, yeah. So he gave you the eight ball for the party? Well, I don't know. He just gave me it to welcome me. That was what you got when you started. Wow. And you hadn't touched cocaine up to that point? Not really. I didn't give a fuck about it. I did it once and it didn't do anything like ecstasy did, so I thought it was shit.

40:08So that night did you do Did you tuck into that eighth Yeah and I just like remember Being at six in the morning in the hotel room Because I didn't have a place to live at that point The big breakfast was on And I was just like Oh my god I'm still awake I've got to get the train back home To tell my mum how it was You know and I'm fucking tired And knackered and it was weird When that was the start of The devil Yeah, that's quite an introduction to cocaine. There's an eighth. And was it proper? Yeah, I mean, it's from the docks.

40:52Can't get more proper than that, can you? No. You know, but yeah, you know, like that didn't stop me from doing anything. I was off money and this was my platform to learn about acting. and learn about the technical side of it because you can be an actor on stage but the difference between stage and TV and film is massive. Everything is so much smaller on TV. It's all about just literally an eye movement. Whereas on stage it's big. It's so much more. You've got more room and you've got more, whereas you'll be out the shot. Yeah? Yeah. So like you have to learn to get to your mark, hit the light, you know, all this technical stuff.

41:36and I was just a very off the cuff. So they were like, whoa, pull you a bit, like, because I'm just, you know. But then I realised about stillness and about, and that's what De Niro's so good at. He just does that one look, one, you know, and it's like, wow. And that's what you suddenly learn more about your craft. And then there's the whole thing of the tear stick, the crying. We haven't got time. just put this on and it'll look like you're crying. I'm like, no, you know, you'll have to wait. I just need to. And, you know, because I always wanted to be as authentic and I just grew as an actor and they just started to see, wow, this guy's amazing.

42:21He's got the eyes. He's got the, you know, they did a special like filter on my eyes to make sure that they were always shown. Like, not to change the, like, they didn't do anything to Mark, but just the light, they wanted it on the, you know, and they did it certain, and she knew what she wanted, Joe. She was an amazing producer, and she just started saying more for him, and I just got these storylines. So every night they would give me, because the parts got bigger, nine scenes a day, and each scene could be two, two, three minutes. Dialogue, dialogue, dialogue. Then you'd have to forget all those nine scenes and learn another nine scenes for the next day.

43:01and I was thinking, how the fuck am I going to learn all these lines? Because I'm a smoke, because, like, you know, the memory's not the best. So I made myself this rule that I can't light the joint until I've learnt the lines. So I would learn my lines and, like, every night I'd be like – and that was a good thing because I wasn't out there spending money and going crazy and doing – I just was in the game, in the craft, wanting to do well. And then I'd learn them all, I'd like test myself quickly and then I'd like to join it and it'd be amazing. And then I'd wake up in the morning thinking, fuck, I hope I remember them.

43:41Forgotten them again. You know, and I'd be on set and they'd be there. They'd be there. And I'd think, wow, I've developed a muscle memory and it just gets stronger and stronger. My friend Nick, who's still on it, he can literally go, yeah, done. and he'd learn the lines like that, that quick. He'd just go, okay. Yeah, it's an incredible talent. How'd you do that? I mean, that's because he's been in it now 25 years. Muscle memory is a great way of looking at it. Honestly, it was phenomenal. Phenomenal. And it got better and better. So then I was, but if you're out of touch and learning lines, like lately when I get auditions, I'm like, fuck.

44:18And I've learned like speeches like that for a long time. So, you know, you really develop a lot of skills. And I think people don't realise how tough it is. You know, a soap opera is the closest you could get to an everyday job from a nine to five. Because acting, you never know when you're going to work. Like now, people would come in and have like two episodes. They'd say, you're so lucky to be a regular in this. I said, well, what do you mean? They said, because it's so tough out there. And I was like, wow, yeah. Not really understanding what they meant because I was in a job. Every day I'd have a job.

44:51And I'd get paid three, four grand a week at 19 years old.

45:25Mental. me a reason to live. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plans. Yeah. That's a lot of money. It's a lot of responsibility. I wasn't really doing much with the money. And then in the end, my friend Jeremy Edwards, who played Kurt in it, he was the original first guy.

46:08He said, I'll buy a property, talk to, you know, buy somewhere. And he, thank God for him. And I bought a wicked place and I've still got it now. So that's lucky because not much of it else is left. You know, but it's a lot of money back then. It's a lot of money now. It's a lot of money now. It is. And a hell of a lot of money back then. How was you treated on set by not just the cast, but like the directors and producers? Really lovely. Really well. Yeah, really well. They really loved me. Yeah, they really did. But the funny thing is they've never asked me back because of, I think because the press ruined me so badly, you know, and painted this picture of me.

46:52And that's what's so annoying is because everyone else was doing it. I was just the one that got called. So did the press destroy your Hollyoaks career? No, no, no, no, not at all. They didn't. I'm talking about later on. Oh, I see. Why Hollyoaks didn't have me back. Yeah. How did it come to an end? Oh, right. I wanted to leave. I was like, right, it's four years. I started to get really like, I don't know. I just started to feel, oh, yeah, I'm an actor. Dad, I need to play other parts. I'm a serious actor. Like, I want to go to America. I want to go to Hollywood. I want to go and get an agent out there.

47:26and yeah, I just wanted to get out. I wasn't feeling it anymore. What was the stint of you in Hollyoaks? Four years. They weren't happy because I was breaking my contract. I was like, no, I just want to go. I just wasn't happy, but I had started to do drugs on my own a bit. So the cocaine was partying with them. When we had days off, we'd drink, we'd get on it, we'd chat shit and it was wicked and we'd shag and whatever with the girl. It was just brilliant. But it kind of fizzled out a bit. And then, you know, this progressive illness, suddenly I find myself, you know, doing it on my own. And I'd always be all right.

48:06I'd never be, like, fucked filming. No way I wouldn't be able to handle it. And that's the truth. But, like, I did feel it progressing. So I'd go down every weekend to my parents, and suddenly I wouldn't go down. I'd just stay up there on my own and get an eighth. And how old would you have been at this stage? 22. So I started at 19, 22, going on 23, you know, near the end. So I think that had us – because I obviously wasn't content anymore. I wasn't happy. I think a lot of storylines had happened. My mum had died in it. Not my real mum, obviously. Soul's mum. Soul's mum had died. Kate, the sister, had gone.

48:47It really was fizzling out. And I think even Danielle, who played Gina, she was there. except it was just literally me left arguing. I just thought, I need to go and do another job. You know what I mean? I'm ready to go and do films because that's what I wanted to do. So here's a question for you. So you've played soul for four years and you've put your heart and soul into it. When you decided, I want to evolve, go into films, which means you can't be soul anymore, the actual separation, did it feel like you were separating from someone? Was there heartache involved? That's a really good point.

49:25You must have formed a relationship with Soul. Yeah, and I think we even went to Barcelona and did the Boys do Barca, which was a whole late night episodes. And that was fucking amazing. But at that point, I had met Rachel. I met her at Glastonbury and we were really close. We got engaged. She got pregnant and I didn't see her all the time because she obviously was down in London. And I got to a point where I think that was a big factor. I wanted to be close to her and I wanted to play other roles. So I just made that decision to get out. And when I left, I did feel like I was leaving a massive part of me behind or like, yeah, it was like I was leaving soul there and I would come back and rejoin later on at some point.

50:16And because that hasn't happened, it's been really hard to accept because they've had a lot of people come back and they never did meet and he was the biggest character on it. So all I can see by just saying mind is, Paul, what did you do to really fuck up your acting or your relationship with them because they loved you? is it because they're pissed off you left? What happened after you left Hollyoaks? I got asked to present the Priory with Jamie Thigston and Zoe Ball. So I was their outside broadcaster and I would basically be waiting by, say, a burger van by Stephen and Fred's house or whatever.

51:09These are made-up names. and Zoe would be speaking, Hi, is that Stephen living at number four windmill Crescent or whatever? Yeah. Your girlfriend Jane has set you up, pulled your hands waiting down the road in a bite-a-burger van. If you run down there within one minute and eat five burgers, you get£500, you know. So I'd always have to have a wicked little crew with me, like production people. and we'd have to go all around England and they'd always bring me a four-pack of Cronenberg because I'd need that little bit of Dutch courage before I do it because it's live TV, like live as fuck. Ah, so was that more nerve-wracking than my soul?

51:54Yeah, because you're you. You're not a character. Right. Suddenly I'm being – and I'd never done it before, so it was like, this is weird. This is – I have to be me, so who is me? Am I funny? Am I this? Am I that? You know, so, and they loved it, man. It was hilarious. And I'd shoved the food in their mouth and I'd always give them the money. And, you know, I just, yeah, it was just so exciting. And I don't know if Jamie thinks, whenever I'd see his face, I don't think he loved me as much as Zoe. Zoe just like was being hysterical. She just loved it. So they kept asking me to do it and they were the same people that made TFI Friday.

52:34So it was a wicked production company. and then they were the people that did Ant and Dec. So I was in with all of that. So I left Holyoaks and started getting in with the big players, but in a different kind of way. And then I went and done the Edinburgh Festival with an award-winning playwright and I played in The Desires of Frankenstein. He was the monster, but a beautiful boy. And Igor was his servant and he'd go and get food. yes master yes every day and he'd come back I got some please may I and I'd be like oh go on then and he'd give me a blowjob on stage you know in this theatre this little hunchback it was so fucked up it was a a really kind of crazy gay playwright who's amazing was it an actual blowjob no no we'd fake it okay but I was his master because I know your method you see yeah I know yeah no good point I just wouldn't nah nah I mean man this guy he's a good little actor but yeah it was funny because people would think because we made it so believable and and he goes thank you like you know because I've got it was hilarious and I thought what the fuck am I doing but it was just a show you know I'm an actor I'm an actor I'm an actor yeah did you ever consider getting into porn Yeah.

54:04Yeah. I thought that would suit you. I really did. And, like, literally, I was close to it maybe, I don't know, I did a film a few years ago, and the guy that did all the makeup and the prosthetics did horror porn. So he said, like, they wouldn't know it was you, Paul. You know what I mean? You can't just do normal porn, can you? No. I want to hide my face. You know, he said they get paid a fortune. Literally, they come with suitcases, cocaine, fucking money, everything, and feed you everything you want, give you some Viagra, boom. Put a fucking, you know, scary mask on you and you're off. And you get like 10 grand.

54:40Do you want to do it? I was like, do you know what I really could do with that money? It's very tempting here. What put you off? Oh, I'm an actor. I'll be all right. But it's interesting, isn't it? It really does go on and it's available if you want to. So like, you know. Yeah. Yeah, and because I quite like porn, like, you know, kind of thought, yeah, I'd give that a go. But no, thank God I don't have to do that and I haven't had to do that. So, yeah, fast forward, man, and the addiction started to take toll and I started to, like, realise that I was doing it, you know, once or twice a week on my own.

55:21I'd left Hollyoaks and I'm with this amazing girl, like, but she's older than me, about eight years older and she's pregnant and I go and do this panto with Sue Pollard So this is now on from hosting the Priory? Yeah, first year after I'd left Hollyoaks I'd gone to America to meet this casting director as well through Sylvia and he was a wicked guy and he did American Pie and Legally Blonde and those type of films, Joseph Middleton a really nice guy and he'd write me for dinner one night and I'm like, didn't even realise, but the whole night I'm like sitting next to Stifler's mum. But I didn't know.

56:09And yeah, I just had a laugh and they loved me and they were selling me. I ended up getting a manager called Mark, who's still my manager, out there. And he managed James Gandolfini, who's Tony Soprano. So I got friendly with Jim and he was an amazing guy, God rest his soul. What an interesting guy to know. Yeah, really lovely guy. And we were going to do a film together and everything and it's just such a shame that he passed away. So young as well. Yeah. Did you learn a thing or two from him? Yeah, I just learned his humility was incredible. When he came to London, he'd been to the Gulf War, not the war, to see the troops.

56:52The troops loved him. And James, Jim, they would, Mark would call him. So Mark would call me and say, Paul, can you hook us up a nice weekend? We're coming from there. He's gone to see the troops. Like, we want to go out. Can you get us any, you know, some bits and bobs? Of course. And I tell my brother, because I didn't watch Sopranos at the time, and my brother and my friend, Shiri, they were obsessed. They were like, no fucking way is he coming. I said, please, let us come, please, let us come. All right. So we got to the hotel room and he's there and, you know, he pulls out this big blade because he carries a knife everywhere he goes because of New York, growing up in New York.

57:37How did you get that through customs? Like, I just don't get it. I didn't ask him how, I don't think, but he'd been talking to the troops and whatever and he obviously was this very VIP type guy, but you would never come across like that, but he was going through a divorce at the time and something really, really upset about the kids' situation. And we were there to meet a director for this film called Kill Kill Faster Faster, which unfortunately didn't happen. But I got a part in it and James Gallifini and Rosario Dawson were the leads. It could have been mine, you know, might have done a lot for me, but it didn't happen.

58:17Anyway, we take him out to Soa House, I booked, and China whites and literally, like, and my friend Pete, God rest his soul, had all the best cocaine in the world and James just pulled out all this money and he must have bought, I think, five or six grams. He left one or two at the hotel, bought the rest and got there, poured it on the knife and me, my brother, Shiri, you know, Tony Soprano is basically feeding us with his knife and then he's like, right, the car's outside, should we just walk? And I'm not going to do the accent, but we're like, yeah. So we're walking in the winter. It's kind of snowy.

58:55He's got this little bobble hat with James Gandolfini, you know, Tony Spina down fucking Leicester Square around Covent Garden. And we walked to Sour House and we were walking there and we'd get a few drinks. And then he's like, let's go to the toilets. So I'm like, right, okay. And I felt really like the one in charge, the one that's organised. The nights, it's all on Paul. Paul, make sure you take us to the right fucking places and that everything goes all right. And because I'm seeing the reaction from my brother and my friend, they're really thinking this guy is the body. And I knew he was, but I didn't realise how big, you know.

59:33And we go into the toilet and the guy that's working in there, he literally just grabs him and just puts him outside. It's like, hold on, what, like, you know, one minute, we just need to do what we've got to do. And he puts us back to the door. And the guy's banging on the door like, let me in. I work in there. I'm a toilet fucking attendee. Gets out the knife, pours out the, you know, again, each of us. And we're like, okay, thanks, Jim. Then he opens the door and then lets the guy back in. And he goes, like, you can't fucking do that. And he just looks at him and he, you know, moved out the way.

1:00:11He's big. He's tall and he's massive. And we sit down and the Soho housewoman, And she comes to my ear and she goes, I know that he's James Gandolfini, but, like, you can't be doing things like this. Like, you know, you're going to have to leave soon. And I'm so sorry. Like, I didn't know that was good. Like, I promise it won't happen again. But I'm not telling him off, right? If he wants to behave like that, you know, it was just mad. And then we get to China White's and literally they parted ways. I've never seen people react like this when you walk in with someone like him and we had this booth and we had the best night ever but he sneaked off and we, I ended up meeting the best girl that night taking so much drive, it was brilliant and then I said to the guys come on, I've got a bit of money let's stay in the same hotel because he's got two grams left and they're fucking in the room and he put his credit card bought us all the drinks, like bottles and bottles and bottles, like thousands.

1:01:16But I could see it was upset man, you know. So anyway, I'm shagging. We're all in the same room. It was crazy. And then I say, right, I'll go down to the room. I'll knock on his door and ask him if he's got a pick up.

1:01:33I hope my mum doesn't listen to this. And I swear, I knocked on the door and I knocked again. and he answers the door in this dressing gown and he looks at me. And it was like it wasn't him. He'd obviously done all of the gear. That's five. And it was the strongest, I swear. And he just looked through me. Like, it was like it wasn't him. And he just looked so angry. And before I could say anything, I just went, oh, sorry. And I was like, it's all right. I'll let you. and he didn't say anything. It was the look. It was like that look you've got to do on TV when you practice that. It was this look of like, fuck off.

1:02:20Don't fucking knock on my door. I didn't have even the chance to say, have you got any car? I was like buzzing on all these pills. I'm like, oh! Scared, scary, scary. And it was the last time I ever saw him. He gave you the De Niro subtle stare. Yeah, like you ain't having my gear. That's my gear I'm in the middle of a wank You bastard Yeah A very expensive one So it turned out that Mark went the next day And he ended up staying in that hotel room for two days But yeah, bless him Never saw him again Never did that film And obviously it was a big loss for Mark But we stayed He stayed my manager You know, out there So when I go to America I lived in Los Angeles for three years So I moved out there and yeah it was amazing man I had a good time but I was very lonely out there and that's when the drugs really took over When you was over there?

1:03:16Yeah Coke? Yeah Yeah And one night I couldn't even get any and I ended up getting crystal meth and I was up for days man and it was horrible and I didn't enjoy it and I just thought well I'll never do that again but I was lonely I took my girlfriend out there for a bit but it didn't really work out with her out there I wanted to do what I wanted to do they were selling me as like this young, new Jude Law type guy. And you can't party and do well in Hollywood. You know, you've got to be healthy. And I was young and I was like still a bit crazy. I met this girl called Ashley, moved in with her, so gorgeous.

1:03:55She was at Fidham, which was this fashion school, and I was doing my auditions. And it was cool, man, but I just ended up getting into the wrong type of routine of using, of drugs over time because I choose, the biggest thing I hate, I can't handle is rejection, but I choose the one job that gives you more rejection than any other job. Cool, yeah. And I'm auditioning all the time for big, big movies. Off your head while you're doing that? No. No, not off my head, but tired from the night before. So you're auditioning on a come down? Yeah, a lot of the time. That sounds like hell on earth. Yeah.

1:04:34That gives me anxiety thinking about it. And it's very hot, and they want you to do the American accent. Would you be encouraged to take these drugs? No. Sourcing it all off your own back. This is what I want to do, so I'm going to do it. There weren't a group you was with saying, go on, have some of that. No, I was just... Because that's self-sabotaging, isn't it? Knowing you've got an audition for choosing to sit up smoking crystal meth is... No, I didn't smoke it. I just snorted. I didn't even know how to do it. But yeah, yeah, I didn't have an audition when I was doing that. Most of the time I wouldn't do it if I had auditions, but I was still just not as good or as on form as I could have been.

1:05:08You've got to be sharp, isn't you? You've got to be sharp. You know, it wasn't like I was going always to an audition hungover or on a come down. No way. But a lot of the time my life revolved around either getting stoned or going to a gig, doing a bit of coke or doing a pill. or there was always some sort of drugs or drinking involved because there was a lot hanging around, a lot of learning lines and just waiting to get that part. And I don't know, the people out there, America is very drug orientated if you're kind of in that young. I was in my 20s, do you know what I mean? So I was just finding my feet.

1:05:51But the one thing I needed was family or friends around me. Support network. Yeah, and I didn't. And I found it hard to kind of, you know, it was like the drugs filled that void. They were my friend. They were keeping me safe and warm. Keeping you company. Yeah. But they don't, do they? No, they don't. They're, well, they're your worst enemy. So how old were you when you come back from LA to the UK? So I come back from LA every three months because of the visa. Ah. My mum's like, oh, any work? No, but I'm going back. Any work? No. You look browner, but you look skinnier. And no work? No, no. And I'm like spending money, spending, you know.

1:06:36And then I've got a couple of things. Then I got this film that's cheaper by the dozen with Steve Martin as the boyfriend. And I was like, mum, I've done it. I got it. So I rehearsed it with the director and the kids and everything. Like, it was going to be brilliant. So they said, yeah, okay, because I was with Mark. and Mark looked after James Gandolfini and he was the best fucking manager out there. So basically I get the part, I'm so excited, but then the director bumps into Ashton Kutcher, who he had just directed on a film called Just Married with Brittany and Murphy. And he says to Ashton, hey man, I'm doing this new film with Steve Martin, you know, like I've got this English guy.

1:07:23it's only a little part but like if you want to do it you can and he went yeah i'll do you a favor and so they phoned me on he said we're really sorry but all right but ashton said he'd do it what do you mean so i'm not doing it no no no sorry you know and it had happened to me before with orlando bloom with a film called calcium kid where i got the part and the casting director So in the end, he said, look, we're going to go with Orlando. Because he had been in The Hobbit, it's Ashton Kutcher. You know, it's like, who's Paul Deland out there? No one. So you have to be very lucky. And even if you're lucky, you've got to be filming to actually celebrate.

1:08:07Yeah, shit. That's an end of climax. It was a really, really big blow. It was heartbreaking. I do remember kind of like me using that night or just like, you know, Just turning again to self-soothe. And how old were you then? 25. Midway through your 20s, and that was your go-to now, your regular go-to. If there's a problem, I'm using. Well, yeah, or having a drink or just something just to... Clock out from the disappointment. Yeah, and it turned out that I was getting everything that had an English accent, but anything that was American accent, which they wanted English actors to do American accents because they love the way we act because they think we're better than the Americans, but they want us to be American.

1:08:52But every English role I did get, I did a couple of cool things. But yeah, I came back very skinny with a great suntan, a hundred grand less. And my mum said, well, you're not going back there anymore. What do you mean? No, you're not. You're not. It's killing you. Perth of your health. And it was. It was. Ashley was killing me because she was, God knows with who, all the time because I was back and forth so I knew this fit bird was getting so much attention even though we were together I just I was paranoid I was yeah I was doing all sorts of drugs yeah so did you come back with a habit? oh yeah so by this stage it's now yeah yeah yeah coke?

1:09:33yes and booze? no just coke oh so you were dry sniff as well oh yeah I didn't yeah totally because that's a different I mean people watching this yeah it's a different ball game isn't it? totally Oh yeah, oh yeah, I would just That's all it, I didn't want to drink But I would then, I would soon find out That there are Painkillers that ease that Come down, and that's dangerous Because when you start to Combine the Kind of, uppers and downers Yeah, and then you're like realising Oh yeah, and then you're aching more After a big night and whatever Whereas it never used to happen And especially when you're not drinking as well you start to try and find solace in ibuprofen or neurofem plus or whatever and it's dangerous because there's a lot of you know habits that get formed that way when you think you're not doing anything wrong there's housewives out there addicted to fucking codeine yeah which is heroin sorry housewives but it is it's terrible i know people with codeine addictions it's bad news it's painful I've had codeine addictions for years and years it's been probably one of my main that and and cocaine have been the two biggest so yeah What about Valium?

1:10:55No Because Coke and Valium go hand in hand I just can't get it And we're back Streaming on Peacock May I present to you the award winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller Slapp me Let's jar something loose Ay yes I like that The Certified Fresh Series returns Your boss, you always like this? Or is this just an act? Oh no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody! There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to laugh. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT.

1:11:32Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro Plans.

1:12:10Oh, Matt, can we scream after two minutes? Yeah, go on. If I would have been into that... I know. Right, let's go back to LA. Listen, just quickly. I'm enjoying this, brother. All right. I'm enjoying this. Good. Okay. So in LA, you had a night with Madonna. Is that right? It was in LA. So when I was... It's a little bit back. So before I moved to LA, when I was in Hollyoaks, I was very into, as you know, my music and everything. I was really into The Prodigy. And I kind of friendly with Liam a little bit and Kitty, who's Maxim, the MC. And I used to go and watch them live and stuff. And I knew that they were up for an award at the MTV Awards in Milan.

1:13:00Did you ever get friendly with Keith as well? Yeah. Yeah, but me and Keith, because we both had a thing with Gail Porter, so there was a little bit of animosity with each other there. Well, he's in this story quite, actually, I'll tell you. So I said to the producer of Hollyoaks, I think I should go to the MTV Europe Music Awards in Milan and represent Hollyoaks. What do you reckon? Why do you need to do that, Paul? because we need to be seen worldwide, you know, everywhere. And I think it would be a really good idea if I took, so if I wanted to take Tash, who played my sister, she played a character called Kate.

1:13:41What if I go with Tash, we'll represent, you know, just send MTV a Hollyoaks-headed fax or whatever at the time saying, you know, could we get, and so they did. The publicity department did and they got us tickets. So it was just like my little, see, that's a real ADHD thing, coming up with ideas like that, just because I wanted to fucking go, Heywood, bloody, you know, the prodigy and whoever, I didn't know who was going to be there, but man, it was wicked. We got to Milan, we were in some little hotel, you know, I remember it was cold winter, November time, a big jacket, really nice jacket I had, like with all my stuff, my little disposable camera, you know, it was disposables, got to the awards, and watching it, and it's Madonna, and all George Michael, and all these people winning awards, and then the Prodigy win Best Dance Act, Wicked.

1:14:30They win the award. There's a little after thing afterwards that we had tickets for in the venue and we're having a drink and a chat and there's Liam and the guys and Louis. And I'm like, what are you up to? What's going on now? They're like, yeah, we've got something. Do you want to come with us? And I was like, yeah, yeah, Wicked. I had no idea we were going. I said to Tash, come on, we're going with the Prodigy. So we get in this minibus or whatever and driving through Milan. We pull up outside this fucking incredible house. They're like, this is Donatella Versace's house. I was like, what?

1:15:09No way. It was Gianni's and he gave it to her and it's like their main house. And there was this red carpet, like went on for ages. And we get there and we were early. So Keith and me, we go to the toilet. He goes, have you got any care? And I took literally two little lines for me and I was saving them. But it's Keith. We're on a gold-plated Versace toilet in a cubicle. What better time to get the only lines you've got out and do them with him? So I did. And he never even thanked me. that c***ed, but basically, whatever, you know. And I didn't say that it was a sort of I had, but it was, you know.

1:15:57And I'm thinking, he'll sort me out later, I'm sure. Yeah, right. You know, your head goes, yeah, that'll be all right. That's a good one because then he'll definitely sort, you know. So we go up one floor and there's all these tables and everyone's sitting and there's waiters. And we're on the Maverick table, which is basically Madonna's label because they had just signed the prodigy on her label, Maverick, for America release. So we're on Madonna's table. So suddenly I'm sitting down. It's like, you know, me, the prodigy guys, Tasha, because Liam liked her. And then Madonna, she just comes and sits down.

1:16:41That's her place. So I'm literally sitting, eating. and she's, I mean, it was just, it was just like bizarre. And then the next minute there's this guy who just goes, Soul, Soul, like that. And I'm telling you, who is it? I swear on my life. And it's George Michael calling, like, Soul, come here. And he sat at the other table. He's like, me and Kenny, we love you. We watch you every Sunday. Just wanted to say we love your character. I was like, oh, thanks so much. I think you're amazing, you know. And it was just like, I was saying, Tasha, this is mental. Then there's like all the Spice Girls and Lenny Kravitz.

1:17:22And it was literally everyone, but like the coolest. Then there was Praz from the Fugees. And him and Madonna were kind of, you could see getting it on. Then there was like Pharrell. And he was like, no one really knew him back then. And then after the dinner, we go upstairs to a nightclub in this fucking house. and Tasha, I remember, she ended up stepping on Madonna's toe and there was this whole big thing. I was like, Tasha, oh my God, what have you done? Anyway, we moved from there. Madonna's getting off with Praz, this tall, tall black guy, really cool rapper, and we go to a club, to a nightclub.

1:18:01We leave that place. We're all a bit drunk or whatever, but I was still really together. And we get to this club and there's Damon Albarn and we were all sitting on that table and like massive attack and it's the prodigy just know who's who and who they're friends with. So I take off my jacket, it's got all my stuff, even my passport, everything. And I put it down and I see this girl and we start snogging outside, this German girl. And we're snogging and we're really getting into it. And then basically I was like, I'll be able to go in and just see where the guys are. and I go in and it's just Damon sitting there with someone else.

1:18:39I said, have you seen where Liam and all that lot have gone? And he's like, oh, they've gone. I was like, what? What do you mean they've gone? Where have they gone? I've been back to the hotel and I'm looking for my jacket. My jacket's not there. I'm thinking Tasha's probably got my jacket. I'm thinking I'm stopping with this German girl. I don't know where they're at. I just want to go and party with them. Keith owes me gear. He owes me a lot. I know they've gone to this. Because all I wanted to do was go and get high. That's all. I was just like, I need more. I want to go and party with them.

1:19:12Where's my jacket? Shall I shag her? I kind of know where I live, but I've got no jacket, no money, no nothing. Then I bump into this dancer that I'd done a Royal Variety performance with. And she was amazing. And she was helping me. And I think she helped us get back. So I got back to the place, shagged her. Wasn't great. It was all right. Six in the morning. Tasha walks back. Her jaw is going bam, like crazy. And she's had the best night ever. And I was like, no way. But she's empty-handed. Where's the jackets, Tash? Where's my passport? What are the photos of the night? Don't know. I thought you had it.

1:19:56No. Oh, no. And what happens is when things like that are going on in town, there's a lot of thieves. They go and they take the jackets from these nightclubs of these VIP areas. So gone. No jacket, fucking freezing. No passport, no memorabilia. You know, I was just like, no way. And then she's telling me about how she's had this most incredible night. Loads of gear. Keith had like, you know, what?

1:20:29What am I going to say? to the German girl, just go, just leave. I was like, you've ruined the night. You know, but again, the addiction to women and to getting laid, fucking terrible. So, the next day, we just walk around, go to the police station, thinking for the insurance and the passport and all that and it was a bit of a mare but then I see Dolce and Gabana, I think it was Dolce and Gabana or was it? Yeah. And I say, you know what I'm going to do to make myself happy? I'm going to buy a fucking expensive jacket. Tash, you got any money? Because I had no cards. I had nothing. And so I did.

1:21:10And I bought a really nice jacket. I've still got it to this day. And it's humble. It's so thick and warm. And that was my, you know, best thinking is that how can I make myself happy from this fucking disappointment? So it went from the best night of my life to, like, the worst. Did we represent Hollyo? It's not really. I don't know. But whatever. You represented Paul, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah, I just got what I wanted. You know what I mean? I had a really good night. But it turned, you know, and Madonna and George Martin. What a lovely guy. Like, so nice. So one more time after that, just this Lauryn Hill thing.

1:21:47But, yeah, Miss George. Like, think what a guy. What a talent. Yeah. One of my favourite musicians. Yeah. And we all like, I just, you know, I want to see a good documentary on him and his life. Yeah, putting the spotlight on his good, generous side. Lovely, man. But the media, they like to put... They want the car crash, don't they? Yeah, it's ridiculous. You know, he had a really severe cocaine problem. Did you discuss any of that with him? No. Did you share a line? No. Him and Kenny just loved soul. That was enough for me. Yeah. Yeah, rest in peace, George Michael. Isn't it? Yeah, man. Yeah, that was a sad day.

1:22:23Christmas Day, wasn't it? Yeah. What was the transition between acting and then going into the reality TV side of things? Well, you know, I get back from America, skinny, brown, no money. Well, not that no money, but I had a lovely place that I owned, which was good. And I owned that because I did this Kate Moss advert as well, which really did me well. So I did the Rimmel advert with her where I played this graffiti artist and I had to draw a tag on her face with the lipstick. And it did really well. It sold to like 22 countries. And because it's her, you know, it brought me my place. So it was really lucky.

1:23:05And the Hollyoaks money together. But it was brilliant doing that. So I'd worked with Andy Moraghan, who directed Careless Whisper and Club Tropicana. And he also directed November Rain, that video, which is the Guns N' Roses video. Right video. Amazing. and then now I'm working with him. So I was really honoured to work with him and, yeah, we're friends now and we're still working, we're doing something at the moment together. So it was really special and Kate was special. She was so amazing. And, yeah, you know, we got up to no good together, which was brilliant. In what sense? Just, we were on set for, like, days, you know, three days and you're just fucking about, just eating hash and did a little, getting a few lines here and there.

1:23:54And she was great. She was just down to earth, one of your own. You know what I mean? And that was really cool. She knew Richard E. Grant as well. So we had this. So it was nice. It's funny how it all links in. Yeah, it was lovely. And just lovely. And, you know, they're the nice people in this industry, like people that you wouldn't maybe think that they would be so lovely, but they are. And I think the people that have longevity in this career are the good ones. If you're a dick or you're up your own arse or whatever, you soon get frizzled out. People don't put up with it, you know, but if you're a good guy.

1:24:28And, yeah, like, there's been things, like, later on, like, with me where people know that, oh, okay, you can be a bit sometimes late or whatever or a bit ADHD, let's call it. But they know when I work, I work hard. But you have to wait for that person that really sees something in you, gives you that opportunity. and that's kind of, you know, it's been hard because, as you say, I get back, I go to a meeting and they say, Hi, welcome, we're Celebrity Love Island and you just have to go to Fiji for six weeks and that's it. What do you mean that's it? And who am I playing? No, no, no, Paul, you're you.

1:25:14What do you mean? Six, how? Because I didn't understand it. And they're like, okay, so you just got over there. And if you like someone, great. And there's other celebrities and they're good looking and the girls are good looking and we'll just film you, but you won't see us. Okay, how are you going to film us? Well, they're all hidden. So, you know, it was mad. It was really like, it took two and a half days to get there. It's the furthest place you can go to from England, Fiji. And it was bonkers. Did you love it? Yeah, I loved it. But I didn't have my drugs. so I was like oh my god I got there bought a big black sack of weed like really big like bin liner full of just bush Fijian twiggy weed and like for two days you'll just hold up in a hotel before you go on so just like okay do I take any no and I didn't and I thought what's the point I want to get chucked off i want to do this job um and i didn't really worry but the first few nights i started to to to note this i wasn't feeling well and that is the i because i didn't know about addiction i didn't know about adhd i certainly didn't know about withdrawals and suddenly i'm like crawling to the you know like the diary room which is like the called the beach hut and I'm calling in the middle of the night, like literally crying, like, help me.

1:26:42Then I'm shaking, shivering, sweating, and they're like, oh, dear. And they just knew. They just thought, fuck, we've got someone withdrawing on camera. And what was you withdrawing from? Just everything from the last few years of constantly doing it. because I know there's a massive come down or withdrawals from, say, opiates. Mentally, there is from cocaine, but not physically. Physically, there is from Valium and things like that. But I think it was just a combination of suddenly nothing in your system. And it was like, it was weird. But it only lasted one night. And you know why? You know what they gave me?

1:27:29Brilliant. Australian medics. There you go, mate. Five milligrams of Valium. Yeah. And I went to sleep and I woke up in the stand and I was brand new. And that was it. That was it for withdrawals. I didn't have nothing else. So it wasn't like what I know now. But that was your first taste of it. Yeah, and it was scary and it was intense and it was sweaty and it was fucking scary and it was shaky and it was like, whoa, what is this, you know? So anyway, do the show. You know, the show is mad. Like, I fall in love with everyone. And that was a genuine romance. Yeah, I just like, I loved her for that and I loved her for, you know, but I really got on with Lady Isabella Harvey.

1:28:19We really clicked. And then they bring in a Playboy model called Nikki's Earring. She was married to the 90210 guy called Ian Ziering. And Ian Ziering was this Jewish guy and she converted, but she was on this island. She weren't with him anymore. So I thought, this is great. She is hot as anything. She's converted. She'll do. That's my wife. Brilliant. I found my wife, mum. Right. So I'm like going, you know, really into her. and Isabella's like, oh, man, you know, because I don't know. It's like I did care, but I wasn't with anyone, so I could flirt. You know, one night I was, like, just hanging out with Abby Titmuss, just getting on well before having a little snog.

1:29:10But that was just in the beginning. And then, but then, yeah, the Isabella, and then they brought her in and me and her started to, and she took me into the toilets. And I'd been there about two, three weeks, and we took off our mics and little did I know they put like a time clock when people were viewing the episode above the screen, on the screen, to see how long I'd last. And she gave me a blowjob and then we come out and she put the mics back on and everything and she's like in the mirror purposely like that and really fucking, you know, she's playing up to the cameras. and I get home and everybody's chanting two minutes, 58, two minutes, 58, little did I.

1:29:59I'm like, what are they going on about? They had a clock up there about long. And a minute of that was getting the mic off. So, yeah, so, you know, who does that, gets a blowjob on TV? But no one really saw that, you know. But, yeah, then me and Isabella got together properly when the show finished and I've never known fame like it. Like, I've never seen people go so mental. Like, four years in a soap opera, that was nothing compared to these six weeks of what the stature of fame, you know. My mum was like, they're just saying the word Paul, and they know, and it's you. Like, that's how. They didn't even have to say your surname.

1:30:40So Love Island was the one that skyrocketed you into fame? Like, ridiculously. ITV won prime time every night, and if you're making a splash on it, because I got dragged off. I had a big fight with Fran because I was paranoid by that point because I'm drinking all the booze and booze is terrible for me. But that's all there was. I needed something because I couldn't handle this. So I'm drinking, I've got the girls and I've got alcohol. That'll do, you know, to soothe me. But it didn't. It ended up, like, making me all, like, you know, happy for a bit and then you get, like, kind of, like, who wants to fucking go drunk?

1:31:19And I choose the biggest guy who's a doorman and all of that, Frank Cosgrove, a good friend of mine now. And, you know, and then I'm, like, trying to offer him out, this big fucking Irish guy, you know, come on in. You know, and he was just laughing, like, I'll kill you. And I'm like, come on! And that was the only time we saw anyone come on the island. The guards, like, the big Australian bodyguards, like, they were dragging me off by my hands and feet and I'm screaming and there was a vote, shall we? They took me off to another island and they said, Paul, we don't know if you're going to be able to go back on.

1:31:57And they did a vote, like who wants him back? And there was like five to four. So I just got in with the majority, came back and promised I wouldn't drink and I came third. Did really well, but everyone loved it because that being chucked off episode beat because they're in competition with Big Brothers ratings. and if it weren't for that, man, they just said, well, if it weren't for me, they just said the show would have, you know, completely flopped. So when they put you in the scene bin, did they notice that the stacks had taken a dip? What, when they took me out? Yeah. No, because of that episode, they went up, but if I weren't going to come back, they were worried it was going to dip.

1:32:40Right. So, yeah, basically, they were thinking, shit, this is drama, and this is real. It's not contrived. There's no director like there is nowadays. All the Love Island you watch, it's all contrived. It's all like, mate, you get with her, then you say this to her. We've never had no one. They just left us. So when you was on Love Island, it was completely organic and who you fell for and slept with. We didn't have to be with anyone. We didn't have to sleep with anyone. We didn't have to do nothing. And how many people did you sleep with? They just left us. Only her, only Nicky. And then... But you got with someone else.

1:33:16And then with Isabella, we ended up going out together properly because she was who I really gelled with originally. How did she take you getting a blowjob? Cheating her. I mean, you bring a Playboy model on to any island. But she forgave you? Well, I wasn't really with her at the time, so we liked each other. Yeah, she did forgive me, yeah. It's definitely enough to put someone's nose out of joint. Yeah, it did. It definitely did. Yeah, I know. But I don't know. I managed to... Let's get it on. I'll have a quick blowjob. I'll be back. I'll be back. Well, because she was taking ages even to kiss me, but she was like, I don't want to kiss you on screen.

1:33:55I didn't think we were on TV. I just forgot all about that because I didn't want to think about that. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been myself. But everyone was really on their guard. Like, if they were going to do something, it would be when the show was finished. And Bella was the same. So the minute the show was finished, I thought she was some real friggy girl. Didn't want to do nothing. Man, it was amazing. The minute it finished, she'd been waiting to, you know, and I was, oh, all right, okay. But why did you care so much? You know what I mean? But anyway, when I get off, I will never forget this woman producer, like literally dragging me going, like I was Michael Jackson.

1:34:34So finally my Michael Jackson moment had happened. And I couldn't handle it. And as soon as you flow back? No, it was in Fiji. Like the minute I got voted out, you get taken to D-Rig, you get like medical looked at, food. And then, but I didn't. It's like we are grabbing you and we're putting you in hiding. Why? Because your agent has done the best deal with the newspaper, the Star. And if you get photographed by anyone else, you'll lose the deal. so they're like throwing blankets over you and you can't see and they're treating you like your bubbles you know like it literally is like fuck off like you know quick hit and then you've got to do this and you've got to do that and they put me on the front of the star with me and Nikki her in front of me me with my arms round her waist her in a bikini me in just swimming shorts big boner just behind her like that and her holding this pineapple because she said, if you eat pineapple, you'll come taste better.

1:35:44So there she is on the front with me and I'm like, 50 grand. You know, it was just mad. And then they put me in the front cover the next day. My mum said, you know, they put you in a, she went, you should tell Syl that, you know. So yeah, another 25 grand. Like it was mental. And this is, I hadn't even fucking left my hotel room and I'd already earned that. the winner wasn't even getting that so I knew things were big and it was just the way I was treated and everything it was like it was too much and I couldn't handle it and I never got in this game to be famous I hate the word celebrity I do I'm not a celebrity and I'm not I don't want to be famous I just want to to be respected as an actor I just want to do my acting and people to go, wow, that was a really believable performance.

1:36:41Did Love Island hinder that? Very much. Because I'd done a big performance on Love Island. So I did my own performance as Paul because I couldn't be Paul because I didn't know who Paul was. Paul was the guy crawling to the fucking diary hut. Because they plied you with booze, you was drunk, Paul? I was just withdrawing, come down, drunk, crazy pool. Yeah, just hadn't figured myself out, you know. And how old was you? 25. And did they invite you back again, Love Island? Yeah, so then they gave me, so then I got the show, Callum Fran and Dangerous Denan. But I also got a show called Test Drive My Girlfriend.

1:37:28And, you know, yeah, there were fun times. They were really good. I unfortunately though after Love Island experienced my first treatment centre because all of that fame and that's why I'm like saying about it if I would have when I was in Hollyoaks maybe learnt some tools around women, money, fame. you know, I don't want to say the word celebrity, but whatever it is, adoration, you know, how do you deal with it? What do you do to, you know, when it can really overwhelm you? And what if you start to believe it? Did you become a bit of a diva? I don't know. No. Maybe a bit, but I think that was, maybe Coke probably had more to do with that, because it can make you a bit selfish.

1:38:23It is a selfish disease. So basically, I withdrew, and I just got hired all the time behind closed doors. And also, you've just been given a hell of a lot of money. Yeah. So it got too much, and I said to my mum, I saw Robbie Williams had gone to clouds, and I said, I think I've got to... And I just told them, I don't know how I told them, but I did, and I'll never forget my dad driving me to rehab, and I went to that rehab where Robbie went. Clouds. Yeah. And Kate was at the time, Kate Moss was in Meadows in Arizona and I thought, well, if they can do it, fuck it, I'm going to do it and try and stop this shit.

1:39:03And I really, really enjoyed rehab. Like I was in, I enjoyed being with my tribe, my like-minded people, but I also, I don't know, I enjoyed being clean. And how long was you in rehab for? Six weeks. Completely clean Yeah New man But about three days before A week before my graduation There was a message from my agent Saying one of the guys in your group At the rehab Has sold you out to the news of the world And do you have a statement? Do you want to say anything? I was like what? And they didn't say who Because obviously this person wouldn't say And they ended up with a lot of money because they told the paper all my personal stuff that I'd said in group.

1:39:54So my trust went fucking really down. And I remember the Monday morning, the Sunday the paper came out and it was double-paste spread. Paul Denan, Hollyoaks, cocaine addict, in rehab, blah, blah, blah. And they wanted to write worse than that. But because I gave them a statement, they retracted it. Did you think this is my career over? Yeah, the news of the world come out on that Sunday and I was devastated and I thought, fucking hell, man, I was just getting it. I was just enjoying this sobriety thing and this kind of fellowship stuff. And they fucked it. And there were people with DRRs and all of that.

1:40:30Like, it was some nutty people there. It was scary. What's DRR? Where you, instead of going to prison, they send you to treatment. The judge doesn't do it anymore. Right. They used to send people, like, say, that were dealing or whatever. instead of sending them to prison if they had a habit, they would say, right, we're going to give you rehab, which is really, you know, it's their last chance. But they don't want to be in rehab. They just don't want to go to jail? No, they just don't want to go to jail. So anyway, yeah, on the Monday morning, we're in group, and I pick up a chair, and I go, who the fuck was it?

1:41:08Was it fucking you? Was it you? I want to know, because I was like, I was going to, I would have used it. Someone would have gone, yeah, it was me. I sold you out. I would have gone. I would have gone crazy. So then they, the therapist was like, Paul, put the chair down. Get out. That's it. You're out. And they chucked me out for threatening behaviour. And I never found out who it was. And I just thought, you bastards. And I ended up. and it was really dangerous because of breaking my anonymity and selling me out. I got in a cab all the way from Wiltshire to Brixton, scored, went all the way from Brixton to Chigwell, got a hotel and stayed in that hotel for two nights, you know, and I could have died just relapsing.

1:42:02All because of that trust being broken, you know, and it took me a lot of rehabs after that to finally start to open up and trust people again. So you'd go back to rehab but wouldn't open up because of the previous experience? Yeah, I just went for my parents or whoever was sending me there for a break. Because I've done a lot, as you know, a lot of treatment. But Love Island still said come back. Oh, yeah. And I said, well, double the money. And they said, yeah. So what would they pay you for a series of episodes? Oh, I didn't get a lot for the first one. I think I was the lowest. It was like 27 or something, 28.

1:42:35and the second one, they doubled it. So the second season of Love Island, you got paid about 60 grand. And what happened in season two? The show never really lasted. No, nothing. They kind of picked on me a little bit in the beginning. They weren't very nice because Isabella's sister was in it. Sophie Anderton. But I met some good people. Chris Brosnan, Pierce Brosnan's son is a good guy. Another addict, got them very friendly with him. So, sorry, so second series of Love Island, they put your ex-girlfriend's sister in there. Yeah, and she was all right with me. It was Sophie mixing things, Sophie Anderton.

1:43:18Yeah, I was drinking a little bit, but I had this, so they gave me this thing that the therapist gave me, because they have like a therapist that you can speak to and stuff, and she gave me these, what were they, plastic coins, and she gave me three and she said when you have a drink you throw one of them in the in the in the water or whatever and then you know you've had one then when you have two and you've only got three to make it last something like that oh I've only got one coin left like that you know because that's what it was like but by that point I'd had an accident on a motorbike and I was on codeine and so I was drinking then having a bit of codeine and I was just like, hey guys, you know, like, and it was kind of like, so I was chilled.

1:44:05I was kind of like, yeah. And then Chris is like just straight out of rehab, like saying to me, like, can you leave me a couple of pints on the toilet seat because I can't drink on camera. And I was like, mate, he said, please, dude. I said, yeah, all right. So every night I'd do that. Then they brought Steve-O on from Jackass, and he was fucking, and he had swallowed a whole big pellet of stuff, and he shut it out, and then the next minute, me and him, like, he's, like, got this apple, and he's pierced the hole inside of apple, cut the top off, put this skunk in the top, and, like, we're walking around smoking his apples.

1:44:47And, like, they're like, Paul and Steve-O, come to the diary room now. We're like, yeah. It was, you know, insane. And they got rid of him, they chucked him out. Thank God they let me off. But we had a laugh. They brought in so many different people. They were just trying to beat the ratings. They were trying to beat Big Brother. They were trying to, you know, and in the end, just didn't last, did it? They never went back on the air again. But little did I know that it would ruin my acting career. Yeah, so after the whole Love Island escapade, which route did your life take after that? Because you was on Big Brother as well.

1:45:23Yeah, but not till 17. So it took a really bad route. It took a very, very dark route. And that's when things just got from bad to worse. Just drugs. I had an overdose. I was doing pantos, then got banned from panto because I swore some Christmas lights. What did you overdose on? I came out of a rehab in South Africa. When I got back, they said the psychiatrist had put me on all these antipsychotics and told me that I had bipolar and all this shit, which wasn't true. They blew me up on these pills. And I was there for months and I didn't want to be there. And I got back home and my parents were so proud of me because I was, like, safe and sober.

1:46:17But I looked, I was fat and I was horrible and I just didn't feel like myself. and they gave me my keys and my car and my credit card and said, I'm going to see my agent. And I detoured and stopped and got some gear, some coke, and I said, have you got anything for like... And she went, yeah, try this, and it was like a bag of light brown. And I'd never done it before. So I snorted it, and I shouldn't have snorted it because that's dangerous, really dangerous. And I ended up having an overdose really bad. And, yeah, luckily the ambulance was down the road, but my parent, my mum, found me, like, couldn't breathe.

1:47:03It wasn't, yeah, it was terrible. Yes, describe what a heroin overdose actually is in reality. You kind of just, you don't know about it. Apparently my mum just heard me gagging on my last breath, just making noises. And she just said to my dad, like, there's something wrong with Paul. That doesn't sound like snoring. And she came into the room and she couldn't wake me up. And my little brother was next door. It's just the saddest thing about it because he's really been still to this day, apparently. He was very traumatised by it. And she couldn't wake me up. She just said to my dad, I can't wake him up.

1:47:45I don't know what's wrong with him. So she called the ambulance and luckily they were parked down the end of the road. So they came and they said, what has he taken? And she said, nothing, he's been to treatment. He doesn't do drugs. And they just knew. They thought we've got to give him the reversal here, which is basically the antidote. And fuck me. It was Pulp Fiction. That's how I'm imagining it. It was. and they give you it and you go... And all I could see was my dad's face at the end of the ambulance. My mum said to me, she'd already said goodbye to me. My brother watched me stretched off with just my boxer shorts on this slab, on this stretch, had just gone.

1:48:35And my mum said goodbye, thought that was it. But the first thing, I saw my dad's face at the end and I just could see this look of, like, I'd never seen before, of absolute disgust and hate, but relief. Yeah. Oh, my God, he's alive. You know, because they basically said, you know, he's gone. Like, basically, like, I died kind of thing. But not complete, you know? Like, that was their, like, last choice, last option. and because I woke up and went, and I just went, and I saw his friend, I haven't done anything. Denial. Just the first thing I could say was I haven't done anything because I was so scared of like, fuck, I've let them down and what have I done?

1:49:24And then I remember going into, and this is what I do remember, being in intensive care and the nurse or whoever it was just screaming at me, wake up, wake up, because I just kept going off to sleep. and I knew that if I allowed myself to do that, I wouldn't be here today. I was going to die. So there was something in me, it was quite amazing, that said, stay awake, please stay awake, stay awake. And I had that feeling of real fucking dread and I was so scared. And I made it. I made it through the night and I remember trying to go for a cigarette and I think maybe someone saw me or maybe it was the ambulance man that was just pissed off that I didn't say thanks for saving my life, but one of them sold the store from the papers again.

1:50:21Did they know, did the press get wind that it was heroin? Well, exactly. So the next day in the papers, Paul DeLano D's on heroin. So it must have been a member of staff. It could only have been. and it was horrible. It was like, that's the end of your career. Do you know what I mean? But then everyone that knew me thought, he doesn't do that. He don't do heroin. And they all knew. And I remember bumping into Will. I saw him in Hampstead. He went, you don't do that shit. I said, I know, man. I said, but I just tried it. I didn't know what I was doing. So I did an interview for OK Magazine explaining all of that, and I just snorted it.

1:51:02I thought it was just some powder. I didn't really know what it was. I did, but I just didn't know how to do it. I didn't know what it would do. And obviously because I'd never done it, that's what happens. Do not snort.

1:51:18And I'm lucky to be alive. Something saved me. And, yeah, but I don't know the trauma it's done to my mum and dad and my brother. And I go back to that house all the time. And for them, it reminds them a lot. So it's really hard to be in that house with them and their fears. So it's hard, the life I have nowadays with my parents and my brother, because they're all so scared of what's going to happen. If I'm upstairs for longer than two minutes, they're worried. Still, I know I can't, there's not much I can do about that apart from just keep showing up, keep saying, keep doing what I can to prove that that's not going to happen again.

1:52:02Did you ever do heroin again? And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's jar something loose. Ay, yes! I like that. The Certified Fresh Series returns. Your boss. You always like this? Or is this just an act? Oh, no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody! There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to live. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast.

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1:53:10A long time after. Did you do it properly this time? I just smoked it. Yeah, and I realised, oh, fuck, yeah, you don't fucking do all that. Most people I know that have dabbled with heroin, they end up doing heroin properly. Right. No, it was never really, I don't know, I like uppers. It wasn't my drug, it wasn't my thing, and it never has been. I just had a problem with the tablets, the codeine, because of my shoulder, because I had all this surgery, and that Callum Fran and Dangerous Denain show was meant to be on Harley Davidson's, and we were taking our bike tests. They had passed theirs. I was doing mine in Southend or something, or just before in Chelmsford.

1:53:59And the day had come, or the day before, we did a dummy run on the A127 to South End. And it was windy and I'm on this bike and it's shaking. I'm thinking, fuck, if I'm going to go to America for two weeks and be shaking like this, this is not comfortable. So I thought, what am I going to do? And that night, my best thinking was, let's just get high and we'll deal with it. tomorrow, and then the day came, the test came, I hadn't really slept, got on the, because it's over 500cc, so you passed your 125, now you're trying to do it for the bigger bikes. Right. And we were about to go round a few roads to get onto the A127, and you've got everyone with their bibs on, and the instructor that's taking you to do your test.

1:54:52and a car was coming and I'm on the bike and I'm thinking, fuck this, I don't want to do this and I just let go. And I felt, and I really fucked my shoulder up. But I just didn't want to do it. Now, why I couldn't say to them, look, I just don't want to do it on a bike. Instead of doing that, it was bizarre. Because you're a confident person as well. Yeah, but I was scared. I was scared again of dying on a motorbike. I don't know. I don't know. So I kind of just threw myself off it. It was really weird. And they were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, Paul. I said, just go. You go without me. Don't mind.

1:55:44Leave me here. And they did. They went, are you sure? Yeah, go. It's a fucking trooper, that Paul. Yeah, yeah. And I didn't want them to miss their test because of me. These are just Joe Bloggs, guys. They ain't doing it for the show. is people I've done training with. Don't stay with me. Don't not have your licence. Anyway, the ambulance came, went to the hospital. My dad met me and they popped me. They said, yeah, take these, you'll be all right. And they gave me these two coding tablets. Oh, my God. I was like, oh, that's better. And that was like the beginning of, oh, that's nice. And, yeah, I had an operation.

1:56:28We turned out we did it in a 1962 convertible Cadillac. All three of us, cameras set up. And they were pissed off because we didn't do it on Harleys. But I was like, this is cool, boys. And it kept breaking down through the desert. But that's what made the show. It was quite funny. And there's me in a strap for my arm. And we were meant to. The stories, what we were meant to do was like the simple life with Nicole Richie and Paris Hilton, where they went and that shows like they had to earn money by working for someone to earn money to move to the next town. And that's what we had to do. We had no phones, no money, no nothing.

1:57:08We just got set up jobs. Let's do the job, earn the money, buy a bit of food of it, petrol, and then go to the next place. And there was always a place to stay. We tasered balls in Texas, Amarillo. So, you know, you're tasering these big fucking balls to go and fight or whatever. It was mental. We were, like, working in a bowling alley. We were working in mechanics. I know. But I thought I played this character that don't want to do any of it. Because I'm on Vicodin. I'll do what I want. Yeah. And I just... And the guys hated me. but the more they hated me the more I just played up to it became like the guy that just couldn't because of his arm you know and when it come out when you watch it it's quite funny me and Cameron have a fight we get really pissed but we're good friends now like it's cool it's just drunken but there's me with my shoulder you know trying to fight him and yeah it was good footage you know it's won a lot of things like the best moment in reality you know That year I win an award, you know, since the Oratory Award.

1:58:27So funniest reality TV personality of the year was for Loaded Magazine and they called it The Lafters, not The Bafters. And I win this award and I'm like, yay, you know, but to be honest, it wasn't what I wanted, was it? No. To be some joker on a fucking reality show. No. You wanted The Bafter. Thank you. Not The Lafter. And then I got a job, that Panto, and they said, come and open the Christmas lights or whatever. And I went on stage and I'd had a few drinks and, you know, and I hadn't been on stage or been in front of a crowd for a good few years. And no one, again, gave me any advice or said, oh, Paul, you know.

1:59:16And I just got on the stage, like, oh, fucking, let's have it. you know and they just said oh do you want to take that side of the crowd and we'll take this side these like these radio presenters and we'll turn on the lights but you've got to get them to scream the loudest I'm like yeah and I've been watching Up and Smoke which is like Dre and Snoop and Eminem and I was just like yeah I'm on Up and Smoke you know it's just my like Wembley you know it's Preston And I'm like, make some motherfucking noise. And everyone's like, yeah. Oh, shit, did he just say motherfucking? And they were like. Was there families everywhere?

2:00:05Yeah, they took the white, it was dark. You know, and I was just like, they took the microphone and grabbed it back. What are you doing? They were like, you can't swear, like that. so, all right, thanks, Paul DeLette. You know, and, oh, it was mad. It was mad. And I was just like, oh, all right. And I just thought, oh, fuck it. It is. Yeah, and then I got off the stage and the police just were there, just slapped me an 80-pound fucking fine for speaking, for swearing. And then the producer went, why did you say that? there's the ITN news, go and apologise. Right, okay, shit, sorry. And I was like, yeah, I'm really sorry if there were any kids or whatever, you know, and I'm like, literally, my eyes are like black, like literally, and I just look fucked, man.

2:01:02I look terrible. It's the worst. If you see it on YouTube, it's so bad. And she was horrible. And they were just out to get me, I swear. And basically, the next day, my agent phoned and said, Paul, man, Paul, what have you done? You haven't worked all year, 17 grand. We needed this money. You needed this money. I said, well, what's the problem? They said, they've replaced you. You've got to go home. I said, what do you mean? They fired me. Yeah, the mayor was in the audience, and he went to the person next to him. Who is that boy? and they went, oh, that's the guy that's playing Jack in the Beanstalk.

2:01:44He's playing Jack. And he went, no, he's not. And they fired me and they hired someone else, this guy, and I was on the front page of all the papers and then all the nationals started going crazy, like what an idiot, why would he do that and all that. And then my best thinking is just to use so hard, I've never relapsed so bad because it was like, my life is over man this is it like what the fuck but that's ADHD it's impulsive it's excitement it's like I didn't mean to swear people have done worse you know I've got to tell you for the record and anybody watching this that is since I've started this podcast journey that is the funniest story I have heard to date mate that is oh you didn't know about it no That is funny Yeah, well That is funny No, I can laugh now, but Yeah I mean, if I was your friend at the time And you just lost your career I wouldn't find it funny Oh, no I mean, you know Retrospectively, mate That's funny Maybe What I think Is that it was God blocked it I think it was blocked For a reason That I wasn't meant Because something worse Would have happened Like, that's just a swear word What if I'd have been off my tits Doing a book like, oh, something.

2:03:06Who knows? I wasn't in a good place. I wasn't very well. I should not have been on that stage. But yeah, it was the train journey up there, I remember. You know, it's a long train journey and you've got a few things on you. You've got a six pack and an eighth on you. By the time you get to the Christmas lights, it's eight o 'clock. It's going on. You're steaming and it makes a motherfucking noise.

2:03:35It's not make some noise, is it? It's by then, it's make some motherfucking noise. Oh, man. Right? That is funny. There is no in-between. Nah. That's why they call you Dangerous Danann. Yeah. Dangerous Danann. It's in effect. And that's the thing. And they asked me, you know, with the title, they wanted to call it, remember that character Desperate Dan? They were going to call it that. I said, fuck off, are you calling it that? They said, well, you come up with something then. And I said, what about Dangerous? so that's why when we did that show because we got to shoot like all different guns uh in in Arizona and um well they took us high up in the mountains and they would started us on like the PPKs and you know moving up to the machine guns the AKs and then the Mondoos and the Mondoos is that you know literally one rocket and like million rounds like the bullets are like that and man, when they gave me that gun and that was it and I just thought, yeah, that's why this show could be cool, so the more anything dangerous I could do I just, you know, and it just pissed, you know it is me rebelling a little bit like, fuck you, I don't give a shit and we ended up in America so you end up like from one Route 66 it was so, you know, Texas all the way to California, and when we got there and I shouldn't have stayed because obviously I'd lived there before.

2:05:04I'd go and try and see Ashley. She's with God knows who. That's upset me. Then I'd go and see him. Then I'd have a few auditions, but fuck them. And it was like I tried to because I'd had that visa that they gave us because we did Route 66 and it was for a year. So it meant if I got a job, they wouldn't have a problem with giving me work permit. But I didn't because I wasn't, I needed more help. so more rehabs more rehabs and it just and it just ended up like really really being a lot of treatment a lot of treatment centers a lot of places around the world one minute i'd be all right then i wouldn't be all right and then um in 2015 i met someone my brother said you're lonely you need to you need to go to uh go on this thing called tinder i said no fuck that i ain't doing and that shit.

2:05:59And he said, look, you don't know, it's Facebook friends, and she said, we might meet someone. And there was this girl, she was 0.3 miles away. She didn't believe it was really me and all this. I turned up late and stoned. She's there with a bottle of wine and we just get on. And within three months she moves in. And within six months we're going to split up because I realised, nah, don't think it's for me. And then she says, well, let's go to your parents and, you know, we'll have Christmas Day and then I'll probably move out. And on Boxing Day she says, I'm pregnant. And that's, yeah. And it was like the greatest thing ever, but also like, damn, because I'm not feeling us.

2:06:39But I said, you know, my dad said, no, you did the right thing. And I was like, yeah, absolutely. We've got the best thing that's ever happened to me from it, you know, my little boy. Have you two got a good friendship? Now we have, yeah. But it was hard. It's been a journey. It's been really difficult. And her seeing me not well. Yeah. Going in and out of rehabs and stuff over that time. Because, you know, even a baby or whatever, even my child can't fix me. You know, only I can fix me or help myself, you know. So when you went into the Big Brother house, you was a dad as well? Yes. Yeah. How old was your son when you went into the Big Brother house?

2:07:19He was two. Okay. But I did it. I did Big Brother because I wanted to do it and I wanted to go in there and I wanted to show a different side of me or I didn't want to show the Love Island side. I wanted to just... So I went in there sober. And the thing is, it was a piece of piss. Most people wanted to leave, but I'd done so many treatment centres. Big Brother was nothing. I could stay in a place for three, four or five weeks because I'd done that before in a much harsher environment. This was just, you know... Like work. Yeah, it was cameras and it was fun and it was tasks and enjoyment. but there were people there that wanted to wind me up there were people there that wanted camera time and knew that the cameras were going to be on me a lot for some reason they just gravitated towards me to either wind me up to fight me or to, you know, not to really fuck me because there wasn't anyone in there that wanted me like that it wasn't like that but it was fun, it was good and I really enjoyed it but it was like watching everyone drink and I was sober and I was like, I could see it from the outside point of view of what people get like.

2:08:30And there's the people that can drink and aren't alcoholics or addicts. And then there's the ones that are. And they don't know they are, but you can see it a mile off. That's interesting. And it is just like, my God, they probably don't even realise what they're doing, but they're hiding drinks. They're fucking doing anything they can. And you can see how many more they're having and how they're asking, big brother, can we have some, you know. Whereas there'll be a few people that'll just have one or two and they're all right, you know. Who was in the house with you that year? God rest her soul, Sarah Harding.

2:09:00Yeah, she's passed, isn't she? Yeah, and she was having arguments with, there was a brunette in there that was really, really aggy. Yeah. What's her name? Yeah, she was horrible. It was Gemma Lucy. She had tattoos all over. Yes. She started with me a lot. And she brought up De Niro. She brought up my little boy. I just went, Millie. Why did she do that? To get camera time. To get a fight out of me. Ah, okay. Yeah. She just did. So that's the name of the game in there. Try and call some... if you're a reality expert, see, I wasn't. She was. She was very used to it from her shows, the shows that she'd been in.

2:09:39She was reality. That's what she liked. X on the beach, all that shit. You know, I hadn't done reality in a long time. I didn't really know. I knew what to do. I just wanted to be me. That's all I ever do. I just think, just be you. Just be fun. Just be nice. Be kind. But, yeah. So, yeah, that was going on. I wasn't drinking. When they were drunk, they were horrible. When they were not drinking, they were lovely. That's the alcoholic, isn't it? Jacqueline Hyde. So did you find yourself just keep repeatedly forgiving people from the previous night? Yeah, I suppose there was a lot of, like, make-ups, break-ups.

2:10:19Yeah, and things like that. So we had, like, Sean Williamson, amazing, like, Barry from EastEnders. So he was lovely. And, yeah, there were some cool people. Derek Okora, who's dead now as well, could rest his soul. He was the scary guy, the medium guy, whatever. There was, you know, Sam, who won the jungle for Made in Chelsea. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's another ADHD, hyperactive guy. Yeah, yeah, we got on so well. Very, very likeable. Yeah, really lovely. Yeah. What's the name? Amelia Lilly. There was Brandy from The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. I like that show. On a whole, you got on with everyone and you had a nice time.

2:11:01Anyway, I did all right. I got like fifth or something. I came out, but that week I could do Loose Women. I could do all these shows. The ones that went all the way to the final couldn't. So I got to earn my money. Would you do Big Brother again if you was asked? Probably. Love Island? I'd present it. That's a good shout. Yeah. That's a good shout. What about Jeremy? I got the voice. I went for the voiceover and they went with that Scottish guy. Oh, so you was in the running for that? Yeah, it was only between me and him. So that could happen down the line somewhere like that, couldn't it? Yeah, but why do I never fucking get it?

2:11:33You know what I mean? It's like, this is what I mean. It's like, always so close. You just got to keep throwing the net out. I do. Keep throwing the net out. And Jeremy Kyle. Yeah, it was horrible. What possessed you to go on there? I owed a deal of some money. So that, so, yeah, really? Hey, it's Kelly Rowland. You may not know this, but I have eczema. So I get how it can steal your time. But why let eczema take over when you can talk to your doctor about ebglyss? Ebglyss, Lubrikizumab LBKZ, a 250 milligram per two milliliter injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema.

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2:13:29Tell me about Jeremy Carl. Why? He's a dick. Tell me about the Jeremy Carl show, The Experience. He's just a dick. I know that you went on the show, but I don't know why, what happened. Yeah, literally. I was not in the best place, I think they asked. But he went in. He was able to get the archives, right, which is from ITV. So he really went in and just showed me fucked, pissed on Love Island. Just showed me fighting, showed me, just chose the worst bits. Never said to me, said hello before we went on air. No way. Yeah, didn't say, right, so it's going to be all right. nothing i met him on the stage and uh do you know what when i told him about the overdose and stuff he asked me so why would you then go and do drugs again like really like you piece of shit type thing i was just like because i'm an addict and he just shut up he just couldn't and he knows exactly what that's like because he's a fucking gambling addict same thing different hat so what you're about Jeremy you fucking hypocrite and don't you and when he showed that those archives and that stuff of me being really not good and really unwell I thought that was exploitation and I wasn't expecting it and I wanted to cry and I nearly I nearly got up and walked off I was that close and I just, there was something and you know what?

2:15:08It's addiction that kept me because I thought if I'd walk off I probably won't be able to pay that fucking guy. You know what I mean? He grabs you that much. It's like I've got this, I've got to pay him, I've got to pay, and I, you know, a lot of the shows I did like fucking, what's it called, Come Dine With Me, Celebrity Come Dine With Me, I needed the money. When you was doing Jeremy Carl, was there a live audience or was it a recording studio? Live audience. How did they react when you? They were really lovely. On your side? Really on my side. Good. Really, really. So that backfired on him, didn't it?

2:15:39Totally. Totally. And people were like, poor you, man. They liked me even more. They saw how upset I was. Good. And it's up to me, isn't it? And that's another thing that I am drawn in for a pound note. You know, because if I can't pay my bills and look after my boy and do... And TV's all you know. Yeah, it's difficult, isn't it? But all it's doing is keeping me further away from the real stuff, the acting. Because these casting directors are very, they're old school, man. They don't want reality. But you've now slipped back into the whole acting scene, haven't you? Yeah, amazingly. Thank God.

2:16:22Talk to me about Morning After Drama. I started working for the Amy Winehouse Foundation because I really, I don't know, there was something I was drawn to with Amy again, you know, could relate, never met her. But Mitch knew my parents and they grew up in the same area. Like he knew my mum and this, that and the other. And I don't know, it wasn't even that, but it was just, I just wanted to phone them up. So I phoned them. I was in recovery. I said, I want to help. Is there anything I can do? And they said, yeah, we're doing this thing in schools, where you can come in and you can tell them your story to the classroom and deter them from going down the wrong road.

2:17:06We never say, oh, I'm here to tell you not to do drugs. I'm here just to warn you of how they can be if you're prone to escapism, let's say, or addiction. And there was kids that, you know, knew people, self-harm, and it goes on in schools a lot, and it's a really good programme called the Resilience Programme. so I would be with other volunteers, we'd all meet up at Marilobone Station, and we'd go off to this school, and literally they would throw you in a classroom on your own, and you'd be there with the kids, and be like, hi, and then, you know, and I didn't talk about, say, Hollyoaks or anything, but one of them, a few of them cottoned on here and there, and that's all they wanted to talk about, and I'm like, no, just here to talk, you know, so I kind of do a podcast, but a mini one, you know, I tell them a bit about my journey, and I'd say, like, it doesn't discriminate this disease, yeah and I call it disease because I'm at this ease with myself and I want to feel at ease and the only ease and comfort that I feel is when I'll put something in me that that that is kind of it's yeah mind altering I suppose in the way of like where you know no wonder why I wanted to be an actor because it means I don't have to be me you know maybe that so what's wrong with me why am I so you know why can't I just sit with myself and that's the biggest thing the feedback from all the therapists is he just won't can't sit with himself you know I always got to have this on stereo the telly the this I have to be distracted I can't with that sit with that because it's that washing machine head that really becomes you know like regret like we say you know like the past is depression the future is anxiety and but the now is the now is it was all right the present's all right so be in the present and that's where mindfulness comes in and it's so important how in how much mindfulness helps with addiction with adhd with all that because when you're in the moment, you can just be in the moment and not worry about the bills or the girlfriend or the car or whatever it may be.

2:19:21At this moment, everything's all right, isn't it, right? But it's hard when you're a thinker. It's thinking, thinking, you know, and it's just like, bloody hell, the regret of that. Andrew with my, the girl I lost her virginity to, The resentment's come up. There's regret, there's pain, and I've never wanted to regret anything. How can I turn this addiction on its head and actually turn it into a positive? There's got to be a way. And when you're sober, there is a way, and you realise it's about giving back and helping others. And I said to Jane Winehouse, I don't think we should just go in and talk to them.

2:20:06I want to get them up and get them acting scenarios that they'll find themselves in in real life. So they're in the park. Someone passes them a joint. What do they do? Let's act it out. Right? That's a good idea. Someone passes them a drink. Do they stay? Do they leave? Do they say something? Do they not? We're like, you know, let's act out. So when it happens in real life, they go, I know this. I did this with Paul. I know what to do. So they developed with me this whole drama program. and they put me in charge of it. And it was amazing. And we took it and piloted it. And funnily enough, we piloted it in Liverpool.

2:20:44And stuff like that. I started to get hired again for Pantos. Someone took a punt on me. And that was really cool. Turned out he was a bit of a party guy. You know what I mean? Like, I always meet him, don't I? But it was cool. It was, yeah, and I was doing this stuff at the Amy Winehouse. And then the summer came. I think I went to a festival. I think I took a little ecstasy tablet or something and I went for a meeting with some of the Winehouse people and they had just got 4.3 million from the lottery to fund the resilience programme and the drama programme. And I was like, I've developed that.

2:21:26I've fucking done that. And they were alongside Adaction, who are the people that kind of held the money and did it alongside them to help these people. And it's actually one of the people said, he doesn't look great. Maybe you should test him. So Jane was like, Paul, are you all right? And I was like, yeah, fine. Listen, we're going to just call you in to do a little swab test. I was like, oh, fucking hell. And I couldn't get out of it. so I went there shitting myself and they did it and they sent it off to a lab and it must have cost them a fortune but they did it the proper way not where you just pee in a cup or whatever it was really like there was no getting away from your own saliva and um it came back like god knows what was in this pill crystal meth this that and the other so they thought I was on the what are you talking about and I just said look I did half an ecstasy tablet I'm sorry you know and they said oh and we thought it was something I said yeah I don't do crystal you know um and they said we're gonna have to give you three months you know you have to not work for three months if you get that sober come back and blah blah and it kind of didn't really I didn't really go back to them But what it did do is it instilled in me something later on that I didn't realise would happen.

2:22:55So later on, I end up in treatment in lockdown. After lockdown, I escaped from my parents, ended up on the fucking, oh, man, it's mental. But I ended up on Bournemouth Beach, just like homeless, literally. Just like, what the fuck? It's like trying to get into hotels and no one will let you in because it's lockdown. and I stayed in a holiday inn for a while because I told them I was working on the front line for the Amy Winehouse Foundation helping addicts when really I was the one off my tits and she fucking, she was like, okay, right, can you send a letter with the headed paper just to say that, you know, because they wouldn't let anyone else stay in hotels at the time.

2:23:41It was really like big, this. So I was like, of course, I'll get on to Jane and I'll get it through to you. And I never did, obviously. And they weren't allowed in your room. So the room just got left and the more I stayed, and it was horrible and I started to see things out the window, thinking the police were in the trees. I started to get really bad psychosis. Sniffing in there. Yeah, bad. Anyway, basically ended up somewhere, stayed there all summer through that lockdown. did three months and then this yoga teacher said to me she used to go for walks with us uh what what do you want to do paul then come on when you're going to leave and i said well i'm not going to go back home probably go to bristol my mate ronnie size is there he's a drama based he's a really good friend he's gonna yeah i'm just gonna go and live in a dry house i think i need to carry this on and be with like-minded people and be in a house with addicts that are We're in recovery.

2:24:42But what, you know, she said, what were you used to like? I said, I used to knock on doors. I never gave a shit. I've lost all my confidence. She said, it's still in you. You can do that. And I said, well, I wouldn't mind teaching drama, but to adults, because I had a little kids thing, you know, but I directed a play with them and everything. And I realised I could direct, I could produce, I could write. And all this stuff that I never really gave myself a chance to do. and then coming up with that drama programme for them. And I just said to her, I wouldn't mind teaching, but with addiction problems and neurodiversity and, like, you know, autism, ADHD, because acting, and actually there's some from Vanderkilt or something, Brest Vanderbilt, he's a psychiatrist, who wrote a book about how improvisation cures trauma.

2:25:33so acting and drama actually was proven that it really helps with trauma and with youngsters and this and that and I just knew it and I was doing it anyway and I just knew I had this formula so I said she said do it go to Bristol knock on doors and do what you used to do so I fucking did and I left and I developed my own theatre company for mental health in a bedroom of a dry house in Bristol and it grew and grew and I ended up just getting loads of work and I've now got theatre companies in Bristol, in Western, Supermare, I do people on probation that have problems, I do schools, prisons and just trying to build it and build it as much as possible and I do it for free so they come from the community and it's something for them to do and I've got the most amazing actors and I've got the most amazing people and people underestimate how amazing these people are.

2:26:38They're so special and it gives them a purpose. These two women, they didn't leave their houses all through lockdown for about a year. They had pure anxiety. They couldn't even say their names. They came, they gave it a chance and now they're like French and Saunders. They're hilarious and they've got so much more social skills. They're going out helping others and it just built, man. And we got lottery funding. So I ended up getting my own lottery funding, not 4.3 million, 10 grand just for the year to help. And, you know, it's just, yeah, it's really good. I get more from it seeing them change over the weeks than I do being on Love Island or Hollyoaks.

2:27:21It's a very special thing you've created there. Like, no joke, that's powerful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and the podcast I do is amazing, but it's not like that. It's not like when you actually, because it's acting, so it's what I love. And I do method acting with them. They've never done acting in their lives, but I'm straight in with a method because they can use their sense memory. So method is, say the last time you cried, you use your sense memory to think about how that felt, how it smelled, how it looked like, what you were feeling, where you were. and then you use that emotion and bring it into the scene that you're doing or when you last laughed what was it like how did it feel and then it comes out and it's like to act is not to act so like me and you talking now the camera's on us we're not thinking about what we're saying it's just coming natural it's believable it's first time we've said it that's how you should act even if it's we say the same words again take five it should be as real as this it is now to act is not to act and you know and they love it and i do all these method acting act exercises and use all different emotions and scenarios and relationships i can cover and i did job interviews with the probation not one guy got a job because he goes i know this i've done it did a rapport.

2:28:47And I got this other actor to play all different types of boss. So like a strict boss, nice boss, flirty boss. So he was ready. You know what I mean? He'd been in prison. He didn't want to be recalled. And yeah, and it's just like, wow, the power of drama, the power of improv. Because it's not like you've got to learn a lot of lines, right? It's just coming out of your mouth. But you know the scenario. And how many people would you do that with at once? 15 max I do all the rehabs So I'm going back into rehabs I do rehabs in Western All of them I've got more as contracts and stuff But we're struggling at the moment Because to be honest If I was like why did you give it for free I'm like because I wanted to give back And I know these people on the dial They're straight out of prison or rehab They ain't got loads of money They probably won't come otherwise But they have built their own connection They've got a WhatsApp group They'll go out together.

2:29:44They've got proper friends and we help them if they've lost their phone or they need help with counselling or they need help with anything. We've got, I've got proper trained workers that can signpost them to get help with housing, with jobs, with, you know, it's not just a drama thing. It's not just acting. And then I put on performances. so we're doing the recovery festival in Bristol. And, you know, we just need a bit more funding and help of becoming a CIC, and that's hard to be your own charity. You know, it's like a lot of responsibility. But I don't even get a wage, do you know what I mean?

2:30:22I get a little bit of money here and there, and then just waiting for the big job, innit? You deserve for that vehicle to be monetised because it was born out of love. Oh, yeah. I can see that. I've seen your whole demeanour change since you've been talking about it. It's beautiful. I love what you're doing. You deserve it to be monetised. Have you got an idea of how you can do that? Because this is something that needs to grow. Oh, massively. And people need to realise it's just as effective as group therapy. You know, drama therapy is very effective. And obviously, yeah, straight out rehab, your confidence is not really there.

2:30:59But a little bit further along, you do get that confidence. and actually even straight, like, they want to get up when they see others get up. So what I do is I was doing this place in Oxford called Adapt and it's like a secondary. So they've been to treatment, they've detoxed. Now they're in the secondary and they're all lads. And they're all pretty hard and they're all right, but they like me coming in. I kind of get on with them, you know, and I really know that I can go, yeah, you're a musician. You can just tell, you can just tell who's who. And they say, oh, we're not going to, I'm not doing it, Paul.

2:31:31no no I'm not acting today alright mate you can just watch the minute they see someone else get up they're up and it's usually the ones that don't want to do it that are the best that have got so much and then I learn a lot about creative writing so I do creative writing with them where you like when you say a title like summer you say the word summer is the title and then they just write whatever summer means to them and everyone writes something different and it's beautiful and it's just coming from them And the reason I want to do all this is because kids too much are on their iPads and on their games.

2:32:08And I think people are forgetting about the imagination that we have. When we were younger, we played out till late. We didn't have computers. We didn't have anything. We just used our own kiddie gameplay from our brains and our imagination, our creativity. And that's getting forgotten a lot. and I think, you know, something's got to stop with all this, you know, iPad shit. Bring back lampposts and 40-40. No, do you know what I mean? I'm with you 100%. Adults being kids, you know, playing, being, you know, it's that fun play and it makes them feel good about themselves. So when I do a check-in, I make sure I see where everyone's at, we talk a little bit, help them a bit with what's going on with them and they can check in really sad and really unhappy and by the time they leave, an hour and a half later, they're a different person, guaranteed.

2:33:02And it's amazing. And you just see the smile come back on their face. Where can people find you and... Morning After Drama. And Morning After Drama. So, on Instagram, at Morning After Drama, or Paul Denan, at Paul Denan. I also have a parody account called Paul Denan Official, which is hilarious. On Instagram, these guys wanted... through a page, and they said, well, who was in the middle of the whole nostalgic 90s naughtiest thing? Paul Danan. Like, who was falling out of China rights and all that shit? And so they called it the Nanogram or whatever, and they're brilliant writers, and they started writing this funny shit that's really made up with pictures that they have from, like, the paps that they get.

2:33:50And, you know, Lee Ryan phoned me up and go, Paul, man, Why are you saying that I was watching the plates spinning in Yo Sushi on Mitsubishi's till four in the morning? Like, I'm doing strictly tomorrow, man. You can't, like, take it down. I said, it's not me, Lee. It's like, I promise you. He's like, but, you know, I said, it's all just made up. It's like, but it's your name. I said, yes. My brother said, look, don't tell him to close it down, but you need to, you know, you need to watch it. Have a say in it. Yeah, and to make sure it doesn't go too below the belt. I thought that was hilarious.

2:34:26Denanagram's brilliant as well, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. No, that is it. I know, I'm saying it's just a brilliant name. Yeah, yeah, denanagram, yeah. And the address is 69 Gary Street. Obviously. Yeah. And it just says a few pictures from my old disposable camera. And then that just reminds me of that night with Madonna. That disposable camera, I wish I could find it. Yeah, that'd be worth some money. Wouldn't it? Yeah. You know, so anyway, yeah. and it's gone from strength to strength and Evening Standard magazine called it Instagold and a lot of people in the industry, they follow it. You should follow it.

2:35:00It's really funny and it's been going a while now and I'm really proud of it and we will do something out of it. So there's lots of, you know, things in the fire but at Morning After Drama or morningafterdrama.com and The Morning After with Paul Danan is my podcast and it's all about mental health and the arts And yeah, you know what? Like, I still struggle. I'm not going to say that I'm, you know, the best at this stuff, but I try to stay as well as I can for myself, firstly, obviously, and, you know, mostly my little boy. You know, it's tough. My life is very up and down. Do you feel like you're constantly battling against something?

2:35:45Yeah, and hopefully it'll just go at one point where I'll just be tired of this fight, you know, because what am I fighting? You know, when it's all there, you know, I read something like it's all there for you to take right now. It's all there, man. All you got to do is take it and not go down that road. My mum always says you do good things, good things happen. You do bad things, bad things happen. If I was to read in the paper that you'd relapsed again or you overdosed, after this conversation, moment, memory we've made, I'd be upset. I'd be upset. So I can only imagine what people would feel that have known you their whole lives, that love you dearly.

2:36:27Let me round this interview off like this. I see the mainstream media lambast and vilify people as often as they can at every given opportunity because no one's perfect and they go for the low-hanging fruit. So two things. Firstly, you know, if you used to put your name in YouTube, you're just going to get snippets of outbursts and reality TV and, like, all the car crash stuff. Yeah. And I just want to say that sitting here with you for however many hours we have... I don't know how long it's been. It's been fucking beautiful. and I can't think of anyone I've met for the first time and thought, I can't think of anybody more likeable.

2:37:10And I mean that. Thank you. I really mean that. So I want to give that back to you. Thank you, same you. As a way of thanking you for sharing all of this with me because it does mean the world to me. The fact that you're prepared to be open and honest with me, it's only fair that I tell you how I'm feeling and I've never met a more likeable bloke immediately and I hope people watching this can feel what I felt today. And the last thing I want to say is because I know that Caroline Flack was a friend of yours. And so in between bullying and what the mainstream media do to people, what would you say to people out there that are A, cruel and B, the mainstream media?

2:37:51What would you say to these people that are just pumping out toxic negative junk aimed towards individuals? I think that they are also trying to earn a living But they seem to think that the public only want to read that shit When actually, look at how you've reacted to the other side of things Yeah, why can't they ever write? I mean, I think there's a law now where they won't write anything too bad Especially if you've got mental health or addiction issues They're not allowed to go into it anymore They're not allowed to really write terrible. But, like, thank God that's come in. Because I know if, like, someone's tried to kill themselves or someone's, they won't write it.

2:38:33They won't write about it. They don't want to know. Because they don't want to be responsible for anyone's demise or anything like that. But back then they didn't give a shit. And even with Caroline, you know, she was a friend that had my back in a way because she really wanted me on that new Love Island when they brought Love Island back. And she did this piece in the front page of the Heat magazine and it was a picture of her with a speech bubble and inside the speech bubble it went, where's Paul Danan? Front cover, there it was, my name. And she was so big at the time and I thought, wow. she's just got the host in the job for presenting the new Love Island and that's what she said.

2:39:24That's who she thinks of when she thinks of Love Island. That's who she wants back. And they printed it and they did get me on. They cut together this whole video montage of me in Celebrity Love Island and they said on air, if it wasn't for this guy, we would not be here back doing this show again. and we just want to thank Paul for his craziness and blah, blah, blah. And we went out that night and we had such a laugh and she was just the most down-to-earth girl I've ever met. And she's just hanging with the crew, you know, just having a laugh. And you just thought, what a cool girl. And let me just say that I believe why she's not here today is because she never asked for help.

2:40:09That pride and that ego got in the way so much she was scared of losing that job on X Factor, scared of losing that Love Island gig. So if she told them that she was using or she was drinking or she had a bad eating disorder or her head wasn't in a good space, she would lose the job. She didn't want to lose the job. So she stayed ill and silent. And now where is she? Well, there is no job. Well, there is no life. And that's the problem with me is that that pride and ego kicks in too much. Can't let them know. Can't tell them I'm not well. you know, even my parents, it's like, oh, they're going to have a go at me if I say I've, do you know what I mean?

2:40:50But that needs to go, that needs to be smashed. And thank God there's a place you can go, which is anonymous, pretty much at the time, who you see here, what you hear here, when you leave here, let it stay here, because gossiping is damaging and can cause relapse and death. So people take it seriously, which allows you a platform to share. Now, You know that guy sold that story on me. How can I trust this meeting, this room full of strangers? I have to. I've got no choice if I want to live. That's why I'm able to talk to you. Because if I don't grass it up and take the power out of it, it stays in there.

2:41:31And what is that? That's not good. You know, I always say, do the opposite to what your head tells you. So if my brain says to me, come out of here and go to London and have a good night, don't. Go home and go and see your parents and have a roast dinner, okay? Yeah. That's God and the others, Paul. Don't listen to Paul. Do you know what I mean? Do the opposite. Because it is usually, most of the time my head will tell me to do the wrong thing, you know. And you know what tells you to do the right thing is that little thing inside you, that little instinct, that little kind of, you know, that feeling of, no, maybe I shouldn't do that, maybe I shouldn't say that.

2:42:13And that's DBT, and that's dialectical behavioural therapy. One side is rational, one side is emotional. I'm all emotional, I'll react. But I need to use the rational as well. So if you use both, here in the middle is the wise. The wise mind, which is just pause for a second. Is what I'm saying going to hurt him or not? Is what I do going to hurt her? or, you know, it's that moment of pause. And that's mindfulness. Be in the moment, pause. And it's a very good tool. DBT, not CBT, DBT, dialectical behavioural therapy. And it was like amazing what I learned. I learned about assertiveness. I learned about expectations.

2:42:55If you don't expect people to say thank you when you open the door, then you don't get hurt when they don't. Because I used to be like, yeah, all right, thank you. Do you know what I mean? You can't be shouting at the fucking mouth. I think I'm mental. Could say thank you. That take is a personal. Fucking hell, I'll just let you go, motherfucker, you know. And what happens? I get angry. Resentment, use. Number one offender, resentment. So I can't be resentful with anyone. So I've got a lot of work to do still, but I'm aware of it. And I have to look back and think, well, I'm better than I was.

2:43:38yeah 100 % so and just getting it all out there just being brutally honest is that's also beautiful yeah it takes balls yeah that's brave yeah on such an open platform so before we wrap this up yeah it's been a joy is there anything else that you want to say no I just want to say like don't judge a book by its cover do you know what I mean give someone a chance allow people to to better themselves you know Ronnie always said to me betterment it's a really good word and it's like we can only just keep bettering ourselves and and and you know and learn and it's okay to say sorry it's okay to to make a mistake um you know it's yeah and it if there's i just if you just ask for help try and take the power what's going on try to speak to someone you know at least someone um about it because if it stays just with you just with me, then it's dangerous, you know.

2:44:40But no, I mean, I'm doing a play at the moment. I'm really excited about that with a really big director. So I'm really, I'm doing a charity football match and I didn't think that I'd be able to pull everyone together. Again, I was like, oh, no, they're going to come and play for this football match. But they did and they all said yes. and it's so nice that made me realise, no, man, people do, all right, they do like me. That is testament to you. Yeah, I didn't realise, like, you know, it's kind of really blown me away. I know it's for the kids, obviously, for the charity, but it's nice that they reacted, like, replied and said, yeah, of course we'll come and help.

2:45:22So I like that and I realised that actually, yeah, I haven't burnt every bridge, you know. Alright, I've made some mistakes, but there was never any malice or any purpose to it. I was just trying to figure myself out. Thanks for having me, man. Paul, it's been a pleasure. Wait, that's it. It's been a pleasure, man. Thank you, brother.

2:45:55I can't remember a podcast that I've enjoyed more. I'm going to love you forever, geezer.

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