The TRUTH Behind The English Defence League - Exclusive Untold Story

24:42I said, right, sound. He said, I'll meet you at the tanning shop at 10 o 'clock tomorrow morning. So I met him there in the morning. We went down. I brought my camera. We're doing bits and bolts. We're looking at everything. It's a good turnout. It's a great thing to see. All the old veterans were raising the colours. There's a big, long line of them. It's a magical thing to see. I was taking photos. You could see all the bomb dogs sniffing people's backsides, you know, behind the crowds with their earpieces in, with the long coats on. So they were obviously, like, taking precautions. And then a police officer come up to us and says, what are you doing, lads, taking photos?

25:16I said, what? There was hundreds of people taking photos. And I stood on a bench and I was taking photos of all the old veterans. He said, yeah, why are you taking photos? I said, because it's our veterans, I'm taking photos. Why shouldn't I be taking photos? He goes, well, why? I said, mate, I don't know where you're coming from. He goes, you're taking pictures of police officers. I said, no, I'm not. I said, mate, bruv, how am I supposed to take a photo? There's a copper every five feet in a high luminous jacket. How am I supposed to take a photo without getting a police officer in it? And I said, why are you not asking all them people and all them people?

25:51I just thought, mate, there was a funny old atmosphere on the day. We had a few incidents like that. Then we marched up. I said, Steve, they're coming through. So we marched up, we walked up to the end of the street and then they paraded, they came down. Oh, mate, what a great sight to see. All marching through in their rows. It's a famous bit of footage, I think. You know, the local news uses it as part of a caption on their news. They come marching through. They march right through the town. We followed them. And I'm filming. They start going up past the town hall. And I'm filming them going up on my camera.

26:20And I can hear a lot of shouting and roaring. And I'm looking through the camera. And I can see a lot of white things. I'm thinking, what's going on up there? And they're shouting. So I dropped the camera and I zoomed in on it and I thought, they're there. So I shouted at Steve. I said, Steve, quick, they're up the top. So we ran, like, ran to the top of the hill where there was a big group of them. And there was all banners, baby killers, child murderers, all this, rapists. They were spitting at the soldiers. And I believe Scott Muggeridge's mum was there. She was trying to shield them from them, you know, obviously feeling this is their son's regiment.

26:53So I've sort of got behind them and we've got into them and there's bargy bargy and there was one old boy he only had one arm and it was pinned in his grey jacket and he was getting into him and he got knocked over so it was just a big load of drama there was a West Indian lady screaming at him and it was just like it was outrage so that all transpired and then they got marched down into the town and there was a load of grief down in the town centre and funny enough there was a lad one of the lads he ran into the Marks and Spencers or wherever it was, got a load of bacon, went on the roof and he was throwing bacon down on top of him, which I don't condone.

27:31But he was, there was just some mad stuff going on, probably. It was some mad stuff. So it all finished. We all went home. Next thing you know, I'm getting nicked for it because I was singing, we were all singing songs out of like, you know, she's a whore, she's a whore, Asama Bin Laden's mother is a whore and all that. I actually got nicked for singing that song. Asama Bin Laden's mother is a whore. Asama Bin Laden's mother is a whore. so they had me on film so when I got called into the police station for the interview I'm sitting there so they're sitting and they've got this laptop and they spin it around and they're showing me on the footage and they're saying is that you?

28:05I said yeah they said can you see what you're doing? I said yeah I'm just mooching about they said can you see what you're saying? I said I can't hear what I'm saying so they turned up the volume and I said oh look you want to know what I was saying? I said well I was calling them fucking wankers and I was singing as I'm a bin laden as mother is a whore put my hands up to it I don't care Was Osama Bin Laden's mother a whore? Well this was the issue this is what I said to him so halfway through the interview she says they says to me I'm sitting there I said so I'm being arrested for that and charged she says well you know it's a crime and I said so I was sort of sitting there my solicitor was sitting there I said so I said whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa hold on a minute here everybody just stop stop my briefs looking at me like what the two coppers a woman and a fella they're like what I said hold on a minute Just stop.

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29:42She ain't made a complaint. She ain't made a complaint, is she? I said, because if she has, she can fuck off. I don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck. do you know what I mean I said I haven't got a problem with her it's a bastard of a son and they burst out laughing I was shooting on all this my brief was laughing they were laughing well they had to read that out in court oh it went to court yeah I got done for it I never had a criminal record up until that time so they read that out in court and the whole journalist section burst out laughing everyone in the court was laughing because if she has I haven't got a problem with her it's a bastard of a son so he actually he the prosecution had to read that out loud and then the judge was like, order, order.

30:23Everyone was killing themselves. It's a funny moment, you know, and I've got that on tape because I got a copy of the interview. Is this before the UPL? Yeah. So from that, we went home and I said, we got, we can't have this. We got to do something about it. Let's do a protest. We'd never done a protest before. You know, I'm just a chippy. I'm just a carpenter from Luton. So we said, stuff it, we'll do it. So Steve said, look, I'll sort out the, I'll sort out the leaflets. I'll get them all printed, printed out. I've I've got a mate in a printing company. He goes, you sort out the banners. And I said, what are we going to call ourselves?

30:51He goes, oh, you sort it out, Kev. You know, it's something he always does. Oh, yeah, yeah, Kev, you sort it out. Oh, gosh, right. So I went to B &Q and I bought a load of banners. A load of white-faced hardboard sheets, cut them in half so they were so big, two foot. A load of timber, planed them up with me little block plane, took the arouses off so people didn't get splinters. You know what I mean? So nailed it to things. I bought a red and black marker set with big, thick ends on them, like inch and a half wide. So I'm in the front room now, I have all these cut up in the house, the wife's in there, and I'm in the front room with these boards everywhere, and I'm trying to think of a name, what we're going to call ourselves.

31:28I'm sitting there for ages, and it's just evading me. I'm thinking, well, who are we? We're the people of Luton, you know, and then we're united, you know, and it just came to me, united people of Luton. I said, bing, that's it, UPL. So once I had that, then I just started doing the slogans and the banners and UPL and Margaret Moran, who was the local MP, she was, Ben, as I'm Bob, no, she was corrupt and I knew it. So I'd done three or four banners with Margaret Moran is corrupt. How tempting was it to make one with Osama Bin Laden's mother's a whore on it? Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, there was a few choice things I could have put, but I thought, no, let's just keep it to the point.

32:07Let's get... Professional. Yeah, let's keep the issue, you know. So I made all these banners and the name and all that. And then we had the first demo. And it was a scary thing, you know. It was like we didn't really know what we were doing. We just put it out there and see who was going to turn up. Well, it ended up mobbed. They had mounted police, horse, the police and all that. So the police were being hostile. They were being like robust, extremely robust. and there was one particular officer on a horse who was particularly aggressive, right? But we marched, we wanted to get to the town hall to get the banners up, which we did, but the horses were there, and there was a young lad there, I've got to tell you this, there was a young lad there called Craig, a young mixed race lad, he was very small, about five foot five, he ran, I was standing outside of McDonald's, he ran underneath the horse, and I knew through the missus having horses and stuff, don't go underneath the horse that's dangerous so he's running under the horse the horse is already on like alert so he's run under the horse and as he's come out under the horse it was a female officer she had a nightstick you know the truncheons and she's just ripped it down full swing and it's hit Craig straight in her teeth and I was standing like 20 feet away from him and it was like someone dropped a china teapot on the floor these enamel the sound of the stick hitting his enamel, took out all his front teeth, the whole lot.

33:41And he went into shock. And I was like, oh, Craig, what are you doing? So there was loads of little incidents like that. So the demo, it sort of went well. It ended up a little bit, it started a bit chaotic, things like that happening. But then we massed on mass outside the town, all the banners were up. And then the lads had the Mark Moranis corrupt banners up. And unbeknown to us, I think it was the News of the World or investigative journalist. They said to themselves, this came out afterwards, I found out. They said, why are they, what's this disturbance going on in Luton? Why are all the people in Luton coming out demonstrating?

34:17Why are they holding banners if Margaret Moran is corrupt? So they, unbeknownst to us, they started digging into her. Then they exposed her that she was corrupt and she was filtering money off and all this sort of stuff. So she got taken off the MP ship. She got taken to court, prosecuted. She never went to jail. She was a very glamorous woman. very glamorous woman. If I'm going off on a tangent here, it's just part of the thing. Roll with it. She was a very glamorous woman. Big hair, makeup, clothes, you know. When she went to court, when she turned out of court, I remember looking at her thinking she was in a grey JB tracksuit, cotton tracksuit in top and bottoms, pair of slippers, long straightened hair that was, she dyed it snow white and she was on a zimmer frame.

35:00And I remember thinking to myself, you don't look like that. She went into court and they, she got away with going to prison because her judge said she was far too unwell to go to prison. So vulnerable, vulnerable. So she got, she got off. Anyway, so that was, that's your first demo. That was the first demo. And it was like, it had a big impact. Did you feel responsible at the time that you've got to manage this crowd that you've put together? A hundred percent. That's huge pressure. Oh, desperate, desperately didn't want like any agro violence. Cause movements like that are always going to attract live wires that you, you can't control.

35:34Yep. A hundred percent. I mean, this was still in-house. This was still localised. So it hadn't blown up into the ED area. So this was just Newtonians. So that went like as it did. Then we thought we'd do another one. So we done another one. And that was like five times, six times the size. But that ended up going proper bandy. Right. And police did not handle it. There was masses of lads running all over the town and up the main drag towards like the Muslim Islamic area. There was sort of the police, oh, it was panic stations for them. And that really went bandy, but it had, that made big news.

36:14But what happened from, as a result of that, it went out on internet across the whole country. And then all the lads from all over the country were like, we want some of that. Right. We want some of that because we got big problems. We got big problems. We want some of that. And what was the overall UPL purpose? Just to vent really. because I'm sort of going off track here on the UPL to the EDL. Yeah. And the Scott Muggeridge thing was the beginning of the EDL, so I'm sort of backtracking. Because the EDL was, I mean, again, because I wasn't about in the EDL days, despite what people think, but EDL is predominantly an anti-radical Muslim movement.

36:51Yes. So was the UPL the same or not yet? Not yet. It was, there were some issues, but there was, it was a big culmination of stuff that we were just happy about. So we had a demo just to back. There was the extremists on the streets dishing out literature, stuff like that. We weren't happy about that. The way that we were being sort of two-tier policed, if you like, two-tier treated by the council, by the government. You know, we felt aggrieved about a multitude of issues. It's taken 20 years for the mainstream to even admit. Brother, I'm telling you, they were in denial. We knew this stuff, you know.

37:30So, and when I say that, you could get into a bit of bother with some Asian lads. The police would come, and even though the Asian lads instigated it and kicked the lads a shoo in or something, they'd be just jogged on, and you'd be getting nicked. And you were the victim. There was so many things that were wrong. I'm not knocking the Beds Police, because Beds Police have been fantastic. You know what I mean? They're great lads and lasses. They've been great with me. But it was just issues. You know, it's just deeply ingrained into the Lutonian way of life that people weren't happy about. So from that, the two United people are looting demos.

38:08That sort of got the ball rolling. But then the EDL, that was the soldier's homecoming that instigated that. But we'd already had the UPL demo. So the soldier's homecoming was the straw that broke the camel's back. Is this the one where Tommy jumped over the fencing? No, that was the poppy burning. That was poppy burning. I got nicked on that as well. So you've had multiple problems in Luton, to say the least. More problems you can shake a stick at. Well, it was interesting. You said how would they feel about a homecoming parade in their town? You even referred to Luton being a Muslim town. Yeah, well, it's got such a massive population.

38:47They're very heavily influenced and they're very influential in the town hall, in the corridors of power. So, you know, they... And what about street-level crime? Yeah, street-level crime. You know, they've got so many lads, you know, and they run more or less everything anyway. You know, so there's a lot of, like, drugs and crime and fraud and everything you can think of there. They've got a lot of lads, you know. It's like an army. Was you aware of the dangers that would come your way going up against an army like that? Yeah. I mean, obviously, you have to take all that into consideration because – but what do you do?

39:23you know, you, um, back then I was like fearless before like all my problems and stuff. I, I didn't care. I was only a carpenter from Luton, but yeah, I didn't give a flying monkeys for no one or nothing. I think, I didn't care who you was, you know, do what, do what you got to do, bruv, you know? So, um, up until that, you know, people, Luton, that was still a bit edgy. That was like, you know, we were still finding out how to do it. You know, we did, we'd never done demos before and stuff. So the issues that came from that. So it was very sort of grassrootsy, disorganised, you know. We were flying by the seat of our pants, you know.

40:03But when we started the EDL, that was a whole new ballgame. Yeah, take me through that journey. And also, because a lot of people do know about the EDL, because it was a phenomena. But what it was actually like, what it looked like boots on the deck, like the violence, the pressure, all the nasty stuff that comes with it that people won't see. because people will see the snippets that the media put out of, you know, people exchanging unpleasantries and throwing things here and there and a few little fisticuffs. But like behind the scene, the pressure that you come under, they'll never print that because they don't want people to know that it comes at a massive cost.

40:36Your mental health, living in fear, all the rest of it. So you talked me through that. How did that actually look in reality? We didn't know the extent of how it would go. We knew there would be grief. just the EDL in general it sort of started in my front room that was the nucleus of it Tommy was going to some meeting in London to meet some people he'd come home he said look lads we've got I've just met some lads and they've got a Welsh Defence League so my ears picked up and I said well that's it straight away in a nanosecond I said that's it English Defence because we knew we had to go from a street level a town movement to a national movement so I said that's it you know English Defence League, simple.

41:18And we said, that's it. And that's how quick the decision was made. So from that point, we started pushing it out, going with it. We had to organise a demo. The first one was going to be in Birmingham. And is this when you started introducing speakers at these demos and stuff? No, the first demo, I don't think we had any speakers. We just sort of thought we'd go there and we'd stand on the street and just have a presence, you know. So I made all the banners for that. That's a funny thing. So I made all the banners. I think it was 88 banners I made. Took me about three or four days. And I had to work in between all this.

41:54You know, I was grafting. So I was doing all this. And the wife's like, oh, gosh. It was taking up our front room and all that. But we went to the first demo in Birmingham. But there was only 44 of us, like body count. Because going into the centre of Birmingham was a scary thing to do. So we gave out the banners. Because there was twice the amount of banners, everybody had to hold two banners. So we were all standing there, but we didn't have any speakers. I remember I don't think we had any speakers like that. It was just a presence. Right. But that caused mayhem. Violence? Yeah, just violence.

42:26Oh, mate, bricks, bottles, lads getting jumped, nothing to do with it. Because what they'd done, the left, they pre-emptied us turning up to Birmingham as, oh, the far right's coming, the National Front, racist. the English Defence League, they're like the National Front, they don't like black people, they don't like Asian people. It was all like lies. So the whole of Birmingham was turned out, all the black lads, all the Asian lads, they were like, ooh, these geese are coming to our town. So the left is actually stirring up the racial tension. They stirred it all up. They primed it all. Do you know what?

43:00I've only envisaged the left sort of appearing more and more in recent times. So they were on to you from the start. Yeah, oh, mate, sooner than we stuck our head above the parapet, they were on us. because they'd already been long time established. They had much more skin in the game of protests, demonstrations. They were funded by, as we now know, all George Soros, Antifa, all this lot. They were like extremely well funded. We were just a bunch of lads pulling that money out of their own pocket to pay for banners. But I think she was a councillor for something for Birmingham. I think her name, I could be wrong here.

43:34I'm going to show it out there. uh, Samuel Yacoub. She was a, a female, um, Muslim. And she was like very, very outspoken against us and pushing the far right. And if they come here, we'll smash them all this kind of rhetoric. Right. So when we turned up, they wanted to kill us. And there was chaos. Lads going about their normal business that lived in Birmingham. We're getting caught up in our stuff. There's photos and footage of lads on the floor getting jumped on by seven, eight lads, black lads, Asian lads, just stomping on their heads. They had nothing to do with it. It just caused that kind of fear, you know, that paranoia.

44:09So they were just battering anyone they thought was with us. Did that make you want to elevate the movement even more then? Oh, yeah. That sort of sparked it off. I mean, that made the papers all over the internet, the footage, the pictures, that sort of boosted us. Then we were getting contacted from the whole country, everywhere, from everywhere, saying, we want a part of this. Can we start an English defence division in Blackburn, in Birmingham, in Preston, in Liverpool, everywhere? So the division expansion of the EDL wasn't in your original roadmap. It just sort of happened organically like that because there was a need for every town.

44:48You couldn't put it back. It's just organic. It just happened. And I'm talking every town, every city. And it's then we found out that every town, every city had problems. because you know the way they don't let the North know what the South is going on and this sort of stuff. And it's like divide and conquer, you know, that this sort of got rid of that. Everyone was communicating, the North, the South, the East, the West. And we were getting it from everywhere. And it was like, wow, this is big. This is huge. And all shared the same problems. And all the same stories, all the same social problems.

45:25Were the grooming gangs, I mean, we know they were going on there now, but was you aware that they were going on at the infancy of the EDL? We had problems in Luton that we knew of, lots of problems. Then we started hearing stories from Rochdale, Yorkshire, Birmingham, everywhere, London, everywhere, up north, Blackburn, everywhere. Wherever this was going on, there were these problems. And we were getting messages and stories. It was like, at one point we sat back and thought, what's going on? This is huge. This is massive. and it just blew. And then people were asking our permission to start an EDL division of this area, of that area.

46:08We were saying, yeah, do it. And the driving force was the pursuit for justice? Yeah, because they wanted to tackle the problems in their area, but under our banner. And when you think if you're doing a job like that and you're putting together groups of men that are all in the pursuit for justice, did you have many clashes with the police? Because you would think the police would think, this is quite a good thing that we can work side by side. My rational brain would think that. Because if it's too much work for them to police themselves, the grooming gangs, the heroin, the violence, the disrespect to our own soldiers, you kind of think, oh, this could work if we work together.

46:42Like, you would think that? Yes. Right. I know, I know. I'm trying to give the police a squeeze here. Yeah, yeah. And listen, let me just put it out there because I've got a lot of time for the police here because without them, we're nothing. As a society, we need them, yeah? And the only reason you can tuck your kids in bed at night is because the police are out there. If there was no police, you'd have to barricade your house every night. You know what I mean? So there are a lot of wicked people in the world. So, you know, the police do a fantastic job. Let's have it right. You know, it's a dangerous job.

47:14Would you want to do it? It's so scary. They see all the results of all the crimes, of all the issues that we're trying to raise. They're seeing it firsthand. but their own personal feelings might add because Bedfordshire Police Kempston Police all the police that I've dealt with fantastic unbelievable so good with me fair-handed but as a movement as the EDL we were treated like woefully because the government was pushing we were this big bunch of ogres these bunch of far-right thugs you know we were a bunch of animals and we just wanted, and because a lot of the lads that turned up, in the beginning, to get people to come on the street, you're not going to get your average hairdresser or beautician to come out demonstrating against radical Islam, right?

48:05It's going to take the lads, like, so football lads were the first and front and centre people to join. So they were the only ones with the minerals to actually stand on the street and if it came to it, to have it out. Do you know what I mean? So they were game. So that's why people say, oh, it was all football folks. No, because they were the first lads. They were like the foot soldiers. They were the bravest ones of all. They came out. You know, they stood up when everyone else sat down and was either behind the front doors. So you can't knock them for that. So from that point of view, but I think the police, because some of the lads had had a few beers and it was a bit of argy-bargy, and the police probably wanted to let off a bit of steam.

48:42You know, I would imagine. They were, they policed us extremely robustly, you know, to say the least, and the dogs and everything. So, um, batons. How did that whole thing actually impact your life outside of days where you're protesting? Because I hope not hate the media and the police, all of them considering you and projecting you as ogres, hateful, thugs. Knowing what I know, I know that you're not that at all. I know that you come from a place of love, but that's not what the general public would read unless they was part of the movement. So how did that actually, how did that impact your life?

49:19Do you know what it felt like? And it was, I mean, it didn't just feel like it. It was. And Tom can testify to this as well, yeah? It felt like it was me and Tom, us, the movement, particularly me and Tommy, against the world. Because the media, the newspapers, the internet, the government, the police, the left, we were getting it from everywhere. So, but we just said, nah, we're not backing down. What do you think they were scared of? Because normally when people lie about other people, They're scared of something. Do you know what our best defence was? It was our biggest shield. It was our biggest weapon, right, and our defence at the same time.

50:00We were speaking the truth. We weren't lying. Everything we were saying was true. You know, people might not like the truth, but the truth don't really give a shit, does it? It's just, it's the truth nonetheless. You can kid yourself, as long as you like, that the truth is a lie, yeah? You can say, oh, no. But it's still the truth. It remains the truth. And we just stuck to that. We sort of had that thing in our head. Well, they can say what they like. We know what we're saying is true. So we'll just keep pushing forward. Do you know what I mean? And we'll break through eventually, hopefully. But it was so, so difficult.

50:33When the world is on you, you know, and you're getting harassed and you're getting nicked. We were getting nicked. I was on four or five different sets of different bails. We were getting nicked every other week. What for? Everything and anything. Like just driving the car. oh, you know, you get pulled over, you're getting a hard time. We were getting nicked for fake profiles on Facebook, things we were supposed to have said and done. Just a load of made-up baloney. But it causes a lot of grief, a lot of hassle. Well, let's now raise the bar to, like, the real serious attacks you come under. Multiple death threats, genuine attempts on your life, which you can put that on record now, exactly what happened and what spills out off the back of someone trying to murder you.

51:23I mean, that affects the family life. So tell me about the attacks that you come under personally. It's on top. You know, everywhere you go, it's on top. And then I didn't really give a stuff. I was just like proud as punch because it was my baby. It was my baby, mine and Tommy's baby. It started in my front room. We built it. We grew it. And I'd wear the T-shirts everywhere. I didn't give a stuff. I didn't give a stuff. So, but with that, and because I lived in Farley Hill in Luton on the estate, I was on the main drag, everyone knew where I lived. I was a sitting duck. But I just thought, stuff, yeah, you know, here's what it is.

52:01But then obviously the missus, the wife and the kids, they're like, you've got to be mindful of them. But the attacks come. So, like, for instance, the lads turned up at my door with a shotgun, with a sawn off, banging on the door. And what lads were they? Well, I was sitting on a settee, it was about to half ten at night, and I'm lying on a settee, and then all of a sudden there's this almighty, I'm just waiting for the Anglia News to come on, I've watched the 10 o 'clock news, I'm just waiting, and I had a bay window, and all of a sudden there was a mighty boom, it was like, what, a gunshot, what was that?

52:35But it wasn't a gunshot. It turns out, it was a monoblock, paving block, right, they'd tried to throw it over the reed rush in the garden and hit the window to get me to come run into the front door, rip open the front door, it was easy to stand with a sawn off. Are these Muslim lads? It ended up a black lad and a Muslim lad, and an Asian lad. But this, anyway, this boom, this crash, I thought, what? But I'd already been clued up, and I'd lost a mate who was shot looking out of his bedroom window. He took both barrels in the face. So I was, I knew not to answer the door, right? So I ran up the stairs, the wife was in bed, and I've gone over to the window and I've looked down and I see this guy in a hoodie wrapped up tight, brilliant white trainers.

53:20Don't ask me why that sticks in my mind. Brand new Reebok Classics and a black and grey Nike tracksuit with a pool cord and he's standing at my front door and he's holding and he's bouncing up and down. You know, I don't know. He's bouncing up and down. I don't know. The nerves are all, he's waiting. But unbeknown to me, there was another lad behind my next one, he was Bush. Now he's thrown a monoblock at my window to break the glass, to get me to come run into the door like some big hero, open the door, bang, bang. Right? But I'd already spoken to some lads, some great lads from Belfast. They said, if anyone throws a brick at your door or sets your motor on fire through your window, don't answer it.

54:01It's the oldest trick in the book over here. You open the door like the big, who's throwing a brick? Bang, bang, you're gone. So I had that in mind. So that's why I went upstairs. Now, normally I'd have a catapult with an M12 nut, and I would have popped it straight through the top of his head, right, from above, because I'd seen him, and I could have done him, but my catapult was broke. So I grabbed a big knife, and she goes to me, where are you going? I was putting on my chest. I said, I'm down there, some geese on the door with a gun. She said, well, don't go down there. And I said, no, fuck that, I'm getting him.

54:34So I run down the stairs, and I had a panel on the side of the door. So I thought, right, and in my head, this is the plan. It's all nanosecond thinking, you know. So I don't know about the other guy either. There's just this one guy at the door I see with a gun. So I thought, right, I'm going to flick the door open up. He's bagging nerves. He's just going to pull the triggers, right? He's going to take his two shots. I'm going to jump out and, you know, do what I've got to do. So I flung the door open up and nothing happened. So I jumped out. He wasn't there. So I thought, what? So I've grabbed my keys.

55:06I've shut the door. I'm locking the door. The missus is out the window. she says where are you going I said I'm going to have this geyser so I jumped in the van reversed off the drive booted it to the end of the road I'd done a 360 in the mouth of the junction and as I was coming round I'd seen him walking back round the bush and he was walking with his arm in the bush and he's walking along I knew it was in by the clothes so I pulled about 15 yards in front of him and I said to him out the window and I had my foot on the accelerator ready to boot it and I said here bruv you haven't seen a lot of kids running down here have you he said no no no no he's a big old lump and I said he says well what's the matter I said so I've just found a fucking brick at my window and he goes no no no I knew it was him so I said I said here mate what are you doing bruv because now it's about 10 or 11 right at night so I said what are you doing bruv and he went what am I doing and I said yeah what are you doing he said oh I'm jogging innit I said you're jogging he went yeah I said you don't look like no jogger to me mate and he went well what's a fucking jogger look like and I said well someone that's running and jogging and sweating.

56:09That's for starters. Yeah? And I'm talking to him out the side of the head like this, looking out the back of the window backwards at him. And he's got his arm and I know he's got the shooter, yeah? So I said, I said, listen to me, brother. I said, see how anyhow that would have went through my window and that, I said, every one of you would have got it. And he went, is that fucking right? And he's just stepped under the streetlight and I've seen him and he's pulled up, as he's moved his arm up, mate, I've just booted it and I've booted it back to the house. I've turned on the drive. I've nearly drove through my own wall.

56:43I've hit the brakes and I'm at the front door and I'm trying to get the key in the door to get in the house. Well, I get in the house, it's all locked up tight. Mrs is out the window. Funny story, I used to have a go at it all the time because she'd smoke fags out the window and throw them on the grass and I used to do my head in and I'd say, stop throwing the cigarette butts on the bloody guard. It's proper gypo. And this one night, she's having a fag out the window and she's shouting out, what are you doing I said some geyser and I'm trying to get the kid all of a sudden she starts screaming like the banshee Kevin Kevin he's got a gun he's got a gun I've turned around he's run up the road on the other side of the road and now he's coming across the road towards me I've only got a little fence garden fence at the front of the garden and he's standing there and I I don't know why I didn't know I just turn around I'm staring at him unbeknownst to me my neighbours are watching it all out the bedroom window with the kids and someone else across the road so I'm just staring at him and I'm looking at him and I'm trying to compute the seat he's standing there right next to my fence and he's bouncing up again he's shaking like a leaf with his gun pointing his shotgun at me and all of a sudden I just thought run and I was gone and our adrenaline kicked in I've had to dive over the nose of my own Vavaro because it was parked too tight to the wall I've slid over the bonnet round my next door neighbour's car and I'm sprinting through the front garden as well my house is locked up tight I know it's me he wants so I've ended up toe punting penalty kicking the kerb shattering would be a big toe in six places, hitting a deck, and I thought, oh no, not like this, not like this, anyway, I'm not joking you, to this day, I can't explain it, I felt somebody, like someone got their hook in the back of my, uh, jean loop, and they lifted my arse up in the air, and I was in a sort of, prone position, press up position with my arse up, and my foot was against the thing that I just toe punted, the little six inch curb, and in my ear, I swear to God to this day, I heard, run.

58:37And I was off like Linford Christie. And I was gone. I ran to the pub. And then I was calling. And I was calling the old Bill while I was trying to get there. And I was swearing down the phone to the woman on the call. And she was telling me, if you keep swearing, I'm not going to talk to you. Do you mind not using bad language? I was like, fuck, same love. There's a guy chasing me with a sawed-off shotgun. I'm sorry about the language, but help me out. So the police turned up. And then I come back. and there's 15 coppers walking around with guns and torches and my missus was sitting on the stairs crying her eyes out.

59:09My daughter was sitting above her. She was crying. And then the cop says to me, come on, Kev, some big publicity stunt on it because you've got a demo coming up. I said, what? You what? He said, I fucking whipped off my train and remember seeing my whole foot was black, purple, the whole foot, swollen. I mean, you think I'd done that to myself, a publicity stunt? I said, are you off your head? I ended up getting the right arm. So I ended up shoving them all out of the house physically. There's four or five in front of the room, guns. I said, get out. Just get out. Fuck off. Get out. Fuck off. And I pushed them all out the door.

59:45They were going, oh, you can't, don't touch me. I said, I don't give a fuck. Get out. So I pushed them all out of the house. Anyway, I said to the missus, I can't believe you just said that to me. Anyway, 10 minutes later, 20 minutes later, knock at the door. It's them. They've spoke to my neighbours who witnessed it all. And he goes, oh, look, sorry about that. We just thought it was a stunt. You know, can we come back in? we need to talk to you and then we had to get out of the house safe house for a couple of days then come back they put my missus and kid up in a hotel I had to take the five dogs in the Corsa they wouldn't let me take my van I had five dogs at the time I had to go drive to some street park up in a thing with a blanket with a seat coming back with one foot in each of the footwells in the Corsa and five dogs climbing all over me trying to sleep that's just surreal you know what the fuck you know So, and I went back next day.

1:00:36Oh, brother. Did they ever catch the boat with a gun? No, no, no, no, no, no. You know, and there's been lots of stuff like that. I know that, yeah. I know, I mean, we could be here for three hours just talking about similar scenarios. How did that affect your mental health at the time? At the time, brother, that was a bit, that was a big thing, but I was still sort of indignant about it. I was like, ah, I don't think of shit. You know what I mean? It wasn't until they used the petrol that's when I said we've got to get out ah tell me about that well after that incident they put a panic button in and a firebox on the back of the door and all that the letterbox so all this sort of stuff but what they did was they put a couple of cameras in probably planted a load of bugs in the house as well you know as you would do if you were then but I'm lying in the bed one night and it's asleep I'm lying there it's about one o 'clock in the morning it's pitch black we also have the windows open it was the middle of summer it's hot both big bedroom windows open my daughter's in bed and then all of a sudden I'm lying there and I open my eyes and although it was pitch black I could see the the air was moving and it was dark but I thought from athletic stuff like a full court pick up game swish to athletic-ish stuff like a half mile stroll get those steps in head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all.

1:02:02From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. Propel Fitness Water. With Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade electrolytes. What's going on here? And then I thought, what's that smell? I thought, what? So I've jumped out of the bed, I've wrapped the light on, room's full of smoke. I'm thinking, oh, no. I've ran straight through to my daughter's room, opened the door, everything's right with the world. I've shut the door, I've run back into the bedroom, all the smoke, and I've looked, and it's coming in the windows.

1:02:41So Mrs. is up now, she's freaking out. I've looked down, all the smoke is blowing round and in. So I've thrown my dressing gown on, I've ran downstairs, I had loads of fire extinguishers in the house because that's how I had to live. Two fire extinguishers on the landing, two in the hallway, two in the front room, two in the kitchen, the bedrooms you know my missus hated the sight of them trust me but I've run downstairs and in my head right I think I saw the smoke coming round from the side I thought it must be next door neighbour Brian he liked a drink I thought he fell asleep and burnt the house down so I've I've come out I've opened the front door and I've got a fire extinguisher in each hand I'm running out the door car pulls up it's my next door neighbour Dominic the son he's a young lad he's had a few drinks I said Dominic quick I think your house is on fire the old man's fell asleep he went I'm Kevin's your van I went what and I've gone round the corner my van is ablaze my Vavaro's just up fuck so we've got the extinguishers we put it all out next day we looked on the CCTV footage about twenty to one quarter to one two cars pulled up outside my house lights off Gizzi got out the back opened the boot got a gallon of petrol it's all wrapped up the old scarves and all that he's gone up to my front door now this is uncanny because the day before I'd screwed up my letterbox with four four inch screws and a block of 4B2 and I had a firebox on the back as well but this is the day before so he's gone up to the door and he's trying to he's got the gun he's put the nozzle on and he's he's standing at the door these two cars are sitting there he's he's trying to pull up the letterbox I'm sitting there watching it with the cuppers the next day.

1:04:28What? And he can't get it. And he's gesturing back to the cars. They're going, he's trying to pull it and he can't get it. And I've got it screwed solid. Do you know what I mean? We wouldn't be here now. He'd lit up the house. But this was part of a, there was 23 petrol bombings in Luton. And it turned out it was them. They were spraying EDL on the houses and buildings, trying to give us the blame. But it turns out it was them. they got caught half a dozen times on camera. So he's trying to get the letterbox open. He can't do it. So then one of them points out the window to the van. So he goes to my van and he pours the gallon of petrol on the four tyres and lights it up.

1:05:07They get back in the cars and they go. Because the car was parked right next to the house, the van. So when that went up, it would have just torched the whole roof of the lot. So after that, I thought... That's your whole family at risk. Bravo can't... Guns and me is one thing. That's a specific target. in, but I thought petrol, I don't care, that don't discriminate. I don't burn my daughter alive and burn my wife alive. Do you know what I mean? You know, you know, you had four terrorists come and they were going to bomb one of your demos. Oh, six of them. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Six of them. Yeah. Yeah.

1:05:38So what was more concerning? The fact someone was trying to burn your house down with your family in it, or the fact you had six terrorists come to bomb the entire demo? Because that's heavy too. Oh, that was really heavy, brother. We had to go to Old Bailey for that. That was deep. That was heavy. but I mean convictions and oh yeah they lifed off everything with the petrol but you know it was escalating it was getting more and more serious so but that was as we were growing become more influential because you've got to remember we went global there was a German defence league a Russian defence league a USA defence league French defence league they were everywhere Danish defence league they were all over it's like global Australian nuts but But so we would become more and more sort of a bigger thing.

1:06:24So the violence and the reaction to it was getting bigger. The petrol was one thing. That was personal. That was trying to do me. But it would have took my family. So that was really, I took that personal because of my kids and my missus. But the bombing thing, that was. Next level. Different gravy, bruv. Different gravy. That was like proper, proper, full on terrorism. they um and you know it's uncanny it's just the whole story's uncanny the night before it's funny but um i'd climb me tommy and this lad that was filming i'd hired a triple extension ladder and i'd got two george cross flags edl flags because it was armed forces day next day right and we had little bits on support our troops and our forces day and edl and i'd got two broomsticks and some cable ties and made two flagpoles and in Luton there's a flyover that goes right across right in front of the the Islamic area the Muslim area yeah and there's this massive green dome like a dome of a mosque I mean that's why the council put it there is to signify you're now entering their area sort of thing but it's it's a green metal frame and um it comes right down to the ground it's way up um so the the idea was i said look what we'll do is our forces day morning we've got a demo the next day in dewsbury what we'll do is we'll get ladders we'll climb up on top of this green dome i will muggins here um and i'll tie these two flags like that and they won't get entangled because i put them in loops on the cable ties so in the morning when everyone wakes up on our forces day on this dome and these two edl flags georgia's cross flags with edl and armed forces and all that.

1:08:10So we've done that. It was the funniest thing. We're on this flyover. We're carrying this ladder. This ladder's huge. It weighs a tonne. It's like three, four extensions. So we're carrying it at two o 'clock in the morning, sneaking out up Cardigan Street onto this flyover. We get underneath this dome. The cameraman's there. He's filming it. I've put the ladder up right, and the ladder's dead straight up to the dome. So Tommy's at the bottom holding the ladder. He's going, I've got it. I've got it. I was going, make sure you have. but I'm going up it, right? And it's dead straight and I'm going all over and I've got these things over my shoulder and I climb out through this dome and it's got like a big filial on the top and I'm up there and I'm trying to tie these two flag broomstick handles, flagpoles onto this dome and the ladder's going all over the place and I'm like, John, for fuck's sake, hold that thing because I'm holding it, I'm holding it.

1:08:57This other lad's filming all this, right? And I was like, hold it still, hold it still. And what I realised was it was nothing to do with him. The dome, the whole thing was moving back and forth. Like that. The whole massive dome. Because it was on these, like, three legs that went down into the roundabout below the flyover. I was like, oh, mate. Anyway, I heard a car. So I turned around. I saw a police car. This is gospel true story, brother. The police car. It started coming down the hill straight towards from the police station. I said, lads, don't move. I said, it's the old bill. Don't move.

1:09:31So I'm standing at the top of this ladder in this dome. And as you come down the hill, this thing's right in front of you there's the flyover you've got to go underneath it and round it and down the road so there's this massive dome and I'm up on this ladder the police car's coming I was fitting please please God no don't don't don't just keep going keep driving they come underneath us drove around straight off not a whisper it's like you can't make this up hurry up I said right so I tied these things got down went back to the took the ladders went back home Tom had something to do the next day he couldn't go to this demo and it's now half two, three in the morning.

1:10:07So he couldn't go to the demo. So I went up on my own and I was going to do the speeches myself. But unbeknown to us, there was six lads in a people carrier driving towards the demo in Dewsbury from Birmingham with an IED in the boot, right? Big nail bomb, big old boy. Two saw-off shotguns, load of shells, machetes, knives, axes, and a letter to the Queen. It was a letter to the Queen calling for abdication, execution, and for them to fly the black flag over Buckingham Palace and all that. So, oh, brother, we've got to hear this. This is mad, right? So, but en route to the police, en route to the demo, the police pulled them over.

1:10:50They were going the other way, but the ANPR picked them up. This is what they say. They pulled them over and they said, yeah, that's where you're going. They said, oh, we're just going on our way to Dewsbury. They said, well, lads, you're not insured. I said, what? Yeah, we are. They said, no, you're not. So they checked the insurance out. They'd insured it the night before, but only for a day, right? And they'd put, whoever was keying in the date, the registration plate, put the wrong letter in, right? So the ANPR picked it up. So they pulled them out and said, well, look, lads, we can't allow you to travel in this vehicle.

1:11:27We're going to have to tow it. They were like, oh, shit. They said, but we've got a duty of care. We can't leave you on the side of the motorway. will take you to the train station you go back to Birmingham so they said oh alright then so they took all their details and off they went they towed the car back to the yard they didn't search the vehicle for two days because they're so busy they had so much going on Birmingham busy place for the old building so they go to the one of them goes out to search the car they flip the bonnet they flip the boot they open it up what? to find all this stuff well that was it obviously from the security services point of view I think what they did then was they set up obbos on all those six addresses and they watched them for a couple of weeks and then they went in on them and they found everything on making equipment terrorist manuals weapons the whole nine yards on all of them now we didn't know nothing about this I'm at a demo giving a speech and all that but that and away Tommy's doing what he's doing I'm giving a speech this all comes out afterwards it turns out the plan was they were going to pull up to get to the demo one of them was going to stay with the car the others would get out get armed and all that and they'd be in the crowd waiting he would drive the car up to the stage through the crowd run as many people over as they could hit the stage detonate the IED take it would have took me in told me out but I was anyone there took us out untold other people smoke carnage devastation screaming panic and once that panic started they were just going to get to work chop and stab yeah and I know this is but the letter to the Queen we had a meeting with afterwards with Simon Israel the little fella that stood a political correspondent for the news we met him and he said the one thing that surprised him they laid everything out on pace tables they had everything every weapon everything and the letter he said the one thing I noticed was there was no mobile phones there had no phones on them and there was no mobile phones in the vehicle because they had no intentions of coming back suicide bombers yeah they intended to either get shot arrested or shot or blown up to smash this to cause carnage to murder all them people and that was scary brother that's the real deal so we went to court over we had to go there it was the Old Bailey but we were in the gantry in the Old Bailey in the balcony like the opera type thing we're looking down and we're we're covered we're surrounded by all their family and relatives there's six of them in the dock and the judge is on the right they're all in the dock in behind the glass dock the all the legal eagles are down here the press are over at the back on the right in front of us at the back so we're sitting it got a bit frosty with the relatives and the family with me and Tommy in the box and outside a few times but I've never been in a more intimidating building never in my life I've been in a more intimidating building than the old Bailey right in that court that is so intimidating like they're different gravy all the guards in there they're huge they are the biggest the biggest lads right and they said to us right you've got to sit in the dock hands on your keep your hands on your legs at all times no shouting out no talking no moving your hands no pointing and then when they come in they sat next to us on each side of us not with all the family and the relatives just me and Tommy so I thought well it was a bit off so we just sat there and then during the interval we had a bit of a frosty one with the relatives outside and on the stairwell.

1:15:01That got a bit lively. But the jihadists? Yeah, their family members, yeah. Okay. They kept doing this to us in the balcony, turning around, looking at us, going, you're all out and you're dead, and trying to give us a big one, you know. But they never got thrown out. But I think if we'd have done that to them, we'd have been elsted. So, anyway, this all went on. Anyway, they were getting done and reading out the charges, and it was mad, mad, bruv. Did you get to see all six of them? Yeah, yeah, they were all in the dark. We were sitting in the balcony looking at them. and the judge. And we're sitting there and they're reading out all their charges for each and everyone.

1:15:32They race from like 24 to 50 or whatever. And, um, I said to Tom, this is funny, right? I said to Tom, he was outside, I said, listen, it's good that you can laugh about it. Yeah, brother, this is funny. This is funny, right? And this is me all over again because I love having the crack. You know, I die, shoot me if I can't have the crack. So I said to him, listen, I know what's going to go, what will go down well here. I said, they had a letter in the boot calling for the Queen's execution and all this sort of stuff and the Buckingham Palace with a flag. When that judge slams the gavel down and says, case finished, closed, whatever, right?

1:16:08Says it out loud. I'm not sure they slam a gavel. But anyway, when he ends the case and we're no longer impeding the case, we can't be prosecuted for interrupting. Because they would use that against you. I said, when he goes, what? I said, me and you are going to push forward to the front through all their family members and we're going to get on the edge of the balcony and we're going to lean right over and we're going to shout out, God save the Queen! Right? Because they can't do us for that. Because that crest above the judge's head means you're in the Queen's presence. You're in the presence of the Queen.

1:16:44I thought he was going to say Bin Laden's mother of the horde. No, no, I couldn't. Yeah, we could have, and that would have went down well as well, you know. Oh, yeah. Oh, dear. but we just shouted out and he says well why are you shouting out I said because they had a letter in the boot calling for the Queen's execution that's the final fuck you that's our Queen bruv right that's our Queen I'm not a Royalist you know I'm a loyalist but I'm not a Royalist right but the Queen is the Queen you know so it's what she stands for what she signifies so I was like no no no no we're not having that so I said he goes do you reckon that'll work I said bruv trust me we shout that that'll that'll cause uproar So he said, right, so we did it.

1:17:25So we did it. So we ran forward and we pushed through. God save the Queen. Mate, the whole courtroom went up. They all kicked off. They were scrapping with the screws in the box and everything. Everyone was going nuts. This lot were trying to scrap in and pushing and shoving. All the guards were coming, running in. The judge was like, whoa. And the journos all over the back, all the media. They were like, whoa. It's all causing mayhem. And the next day in the papers, The big story was Tommy Robinson and Kev Carroll shout out, God save the Queen, causes mayhem in the courtroom. Not that they've been convicted of terrorism, like potential murder.

1:18:07We caused mayhem because we shouted out, God save the Queen. But they couldn't touch us for it. Because how can you prosecute someone for shouting out, God save the Queen, in the Queen's presence, in her highest of courts? That's the highest court in the land, isn't it? Yeah. And what happened to the six terrorists? They all got whapped away, all got life, yeah, 30 years, 35 years, all that sort of stuff. I mean, as much fun as it sounds like having terrorists want to come and kill you all. No, it's not fun. At what point did you decide enough's enough, and how did the EDL come to an end? Because it caused some problems as well, didn't it?

1:18:38Yeah, I mean, what you've got to remember is, like, I was working for a living as well, yeah, so physically, I'm a chippy, and it's hard graft, you know what I mean, climbing around roofs like a spider monkey and throwing fire doors about and floor. It's hard graft. So I was having to earn a living and do all this. And like, because I literally had to general everything. I had to run everything. Do you know what I mean? Tom would just make a call to me, get when he did setting up, when he did that setting up. And I'd have to go and do it because I was the practical one. Do you know what I mean?

1:19:10We take the piss now. I say, you stop calling me up and giving me jobs to do, will you? Do you know what I mean? So, but I'd have to set everything you see on all the videos, is the sets, the scenes, I'd have to sort it all out, the lighting, the banners, the posters. Oh, mate. And then I'd have to keep everybody in control because I was able to do that, you know. I'm not saying that I'm anybody, but I had enough presence and respect from people that, you know, if I shouted out, lads, lads, lads, stop, get back, they would do it, you know. So what I'm trying to get to is it was exhausting. And we'd had a few years at it and I was spent, bruv.

1:19:44I was spent physically, emotionally, mentally. had your mental health gone to pot by then no no no not by then not by then I was just I was literally burnt out and I felt it you know what I mean yeah and one of the coppers said to me he was a lovely lad a great lad I was chatting to him he said to me here Kev he said it was him and a female copper WPC she was lovely as well they were at my house really spotty they were so sound they said after the gun thing they were like put on my house that's a funny thing I used to bring them out Chinese. They were sitting outside the house. I used to cook for them and bring them in the house and talk to them and let me use the toilet.

1:20:22But they were great. They were great. They all were. So she said to me and he said to me at the same time sort of thing, how do you do it? I mean, how do you do it? Do you know, how do you, where do you find the energy? Do you know what I mean? To like work. We know you work for a living and you're organising these demos every four to six weeks all over the nation. How do you do it? I said, I don't know. Don't ask me. You know, the Lord. You know what I mean? So, yeah, but I was so exhausted. And I said, Steve, I ain't got my stuff in me, brother. And he said, and he was the same, you know. And it's the stress and the hassle constantly getting nicked and all this sort of stuff and the court appearances and the stress and the drama.

1:21:02What about the crowds and some EDL members' behaviour that you're probably being held responsible for? Yeah, yeah. Is that all a contributing factor? Yeah, you have to. And it's exhausting, reining everybody in and controlling. Because we were really organised. We had ROs, regional organisers, all sorts of different levels of – and it was exhausting. And we had to deal with people's egos because you'd be amazed. You give someone a stripe and they were proper sound before then. And all of a sudden they're marching like they're some sort of RSM on the parade ground, started bullying people and telling people what they've got.

1:21:34I said, no, we don't tell them. Bruv, we don't tell people what to do. We ask them. And I got loads of calls about people getting above themselves. we had to dismiss them and rein them in people's egos bruv I mean I ain't got an ego so I'm just so laid back I'm just super chilled right and then I don't care so if you bruv if you're sound you're sound but don't be a dick yeah do you know what I mean no one likes a dick don't be a dick but you'd be amazed how many people sort of thought they were like this super powerful being because you give them a bit of power so we had to bring them back down I'd have to do all that but it's so exhausting and then you've got to remember about infiltrators and instigators at demos they would put their lot in a demo and put an EDL shirt on and throw a bottle and make sure it got caught on camera these little details the public won't they won't even give it a consideration that this happens to make you lot look bad no that's right and that happened all the time you know all the time so we had to keep an eye out on that sort of stuff more of a well known left tactic yes now but back then it was probably well you're finding your feet as well aren't you if you're new to demos and stuff yeah because we didn't I've been chippy so this whole protesting thing and this mind games and plots and plays and scheming things you have to do from demos and the tricks we didn't know any of them so the left were pulling all these stunts on us in the beginning they were getting away a bit like murder loads of people throwing bottles and starting fights or starting because we would never throw a bottle at the police.

1:23:10So when they did that, we knew it was one of them. And also, did the police think that you was like a criminal enterprise? I think they did. One thing I know for a fact, because we were told and it was from a high up source, sympathetic source, that as far as the government and the police were concerned, the English Defence League were a higher threat, a greater threat than terrorism. And we saw their objective and it said objectives was to give the leadership lengthy custodial sentences to remove them. This was their plan. And this was way up high. This was from someone that was sympathetic. That's gospel truth, brother, I wouldn't lie.

1:23:54So it was just about the time Lee Rigby was murdered. And you met Lee Rigby, didn't you? I met Lee Rigby, yeah. Never forget that man. No, and when that happened, I was done. Because I've only recently found out about you meeting Lee Rigby. So this is interesting for me. a really good mate of mine a great chippy a real fantastic chippy JD I'll call him right JD a lovely man lovely man lovely family I've been so close to him for so many years right he says to me and I worked with him as a pair carpenters so he said fantastic carpenter my gosh right so he says Kev my niece is getting married you've got to come to the wedding so I said yeah no problem when is it He said, Saturday.

1:24:40I said, John, I'm finishing a job and I've got to hand it over Monday. Oh, and I was gutted. I was devastated. He goes, oh, no, he joking. I said, no, and I'm under big pressure, John, to get it done. And he said, oh, look. He goes, oh, no. He said, I know it because he runs jobs as well. He said, look, I get the pressure, but I said, what about the reception? Can I come to the reception? He went, oh, you can make it to the reception? I said, yeah. He goes, oh, bruv, come. I'll see you there. it was at Crescent auction house in Luton Free Seek Brothers own that wonderful lads massive place it was a good venue so I shoot I finish as a shift I get dressed and washed I shoot there I go to him and I walk in the hall and the first thing I see is a mate of mine Big Mike he's a great mate of Tom's right I said Mike what are you doing here he went oh my missus knows the girl that's getting married I said oh it's great to see you blah blah blah blah you know chatting away because he's a great lad funny funny man and they're having a chat with him and then John comes over and spots me he goes Kev so I get out with him he said oh John he goes I'm so glad you've come I said yeah yeah he goes listen I said here John what's going on over there and there was a big table about 12 13 seats and all these lads in red jackets so I said what's all that he goes oh Kev let me introduce her she married a soldier my niece I said oh right oh he goes Kev that's why I wanted you to come he said together the full swords out ceremony, you know, with the swords as they walk out of the church.

1:26:08And I said, oh no, bruv, I might have sacked the job off if I'd have known that. Fuck them. Stuffed a job. Handed it over Tuesday. Right. But, oh no. But, I said, oh bruv, so he goes, oh, let me go get him. So he went over, he brought two lads back. He says, this is so-and-so, the groom. He's all in their tunics, right, all in their uniform. I said, oh lovely to meet you. I said, oh you're a madman, and you've done it now, haven't you? You've signed your life away. I was having a crowd with him. And he goes, oh, no, Will. And he goes, and this is Lee, his best man. I said, hello, Lee. How are you?

1:26:43Boom, boom, boom. He's standing on my right shoulder. I shook his hand. I said, oh, lads, you look fantastic. I said, you look great. I love the uniform. Blah, blah, blah. Chatting away. And I said, what makes you... He goes, well, I'm getting sent on tour next week. I said, so why'd you get married? If you're going on tour, what? if something happens he went no that's why if something does happen then my wife gets the whole package you know and then Lee was laughing he was taking a minute he goes yeah you'll be going for six months if you don't get his arse blown off you know and they're having a crack and he says yeah you'll be going out he goes yeah not for six months mate right so I said what do you mean he goes no well half of the regiment goes out for the tour and then they come back and the other half goes out right so Lee was on the second half so anyway that night I said well lads you're going away you're the best man I had a few hundred quid in my Sky Rocket so I thought right I just ended up buying trays and trays of drinks we ended up on the bus and we had a great night it was such a crack do you know what I mean I think there was some piggybacking going on and sword charging and stuff I don't know it was all sorts of madness across the dance floor oh mate but it was a great night and then anyway the night finished and all that and I forgot about it and it was about it's about a year later I think it's about a year later I come in from the shift and the wife's sitting in the kitchen and she's got the telly on the little portable in the kitchen and I said alright love she went shush shush shush I went what's the matter and I looked on the screen and I saw this guy in this red tunic and I said what's that what's going on and I go shush the soldier's been murdered I said where she went in London I said what do you mean she goes he's been beheaded in London and on the streets of London.

1:28:30I said, what? So I'm zoned in now. And I remember, I looked at him and I said, he looks familiar. He's just got his picture on it, a famous picture you see with him. Good looking lad. And I said, he looks familiar. And I swear, my miss says, I said, I think I know him. She said, how are you going to know him? He's a soldier from a barracks in London. Behave yourself. You don't know everybody. She's giving me a bit of a roasting. I said, I'm just saying, mind your neck in, he looks familiar. Anyway, it all comes out. then the phone goes it's Tom careful going up murder a soldier in the streets of London blah blah outside the barracks we're going up there I said brother I just got in the door and I said I'm not coming up it was just my head where I was at the time and Tom said well I've been out for three days and nights I'm going I said well listen you go I said I've got some mad things to do I'm just trying to soak this up so he went and that's that bit of footage you see when they're up there all going mad you know So anyway, it all comes out about Lee and we get involved again.

1:29:38So I ended up doing some demos and protests and big gatherings for Lee. And it was outrage on it. It was horrific. We've just not seen stuff like that, have we? No, that was shocking to the core. That was shocking to the core. Even now, just talking about it, it's a mad one. But that was horrific, brutal. and you just think to yourself, bloodthirsty, homicidal maniacs. And at what stages did you realise it was Lee Rigby? Driving past my mate's house one day and I said, I'm going to whip in and see JD. I'm going past his house because I'm coming back this way from the job. So I whip in. I've got this mad story to tell him about something that's happening.

1:30:12So I go in there, I said, all right, JD, all right, to his missus and all that and lovely, lovely family and a great guy. He's a funny geezer as well. He's a real comedian, right? And I have great Irish stock humour so I said I'm telling him this story I said it's going to bake your potato and normally he'd be laughing and having a crack and he's a bit standoffish and his wife's looking at him and he's looking at his wife and I'm like my missus what's going on and his wife looked at him and said tell him tell me what and he goes oh mate he said I've got something that's going to bake your potato I said what's that and he said you know Lee Rigby I said yeah he said you met him straight away the pennies dropped I said I met him he went at so and so's wedding my niece's wedding he was the best man he was dancing around me all night at the wedding boom it was like a massive penny drop you know I thought oh my god I knew I knew him I knew I knew him I said oh my god she goes yeah I said oh mate all the photos and the things we were doing during the night the dancing and the jumping, the charging and all that sort of stuff.

1:31:26He said, yeah, the family said that, but no, no photos, Kev, because they don't want his name being dragged through. They'd use it as a stick to muddy his name, and we couldn't have that. So I said, yeah, yeah, 100 % get it, no problem. Oh, my God, I couldn't believe it. I was freaking out. So there was that. But, bruv, when I got home, you see my wife, I went, yeah, come here. you know Lee Wigby that bloke I said to you he looks familiar and I think I know him and you said he don't see him how would you know him I knew him I explained she goes oh my gosh oh my gosh I said mate and then I ended up spending some time with the family because I went to another wedding of JD's daughter's wedding and all the family were there because they were friends so I ended up sitting in the hotel bar with them until four in the morning chatting to the all the friends and the family members and stuff.

1:32:24So I had that mad connection sort of thing. I've actually met him and the family. Changes things when you've met a human being, doesn't it? Yeah, a whole new ballgame, a whole new dynamic. It becomes more real. A lot of people that watch the news or they're looking at war from Sky News or GB News because they're so detached from it, they don't really care. It's like, go on and bomb him and bomb that person because there's too much distance there. If you actually knew those individuals, you'd be looking at it from a different angle. And so I'd imagine the feeling was quite different once you realised that you'd bonded with him.

1:32:54100 % brother. It's tangible. There's a human thing to it. You know, like it's not a picture or a face or a TV screen. It's a real person. And it was horrific enough for anyone that didn't ever meet him. I mean, that's still, well, I think it will haunt the nation forever, that particular incident. Because it was the kind of first of its kind I can remember. It was so barbaric. and the fact that now we've got access to immediate boots on the deck, there's a bloke there, blood all over his hands, with a knife, reciting God knows what, just to see that in real time was certainly branded in my brain.

1:33:31Very sad. Well, you just actually nutshelled it there, I think. That's exactly what it is. Because I think it's imprinted on everybody's brain, isn't it? Those images and the name of Lee Rigby. because I mean obviously I know we had terrorist stuff before but that for something there was something about that very intimate that's a perfect word it was I think everybody felt it personally yeah it is an intimate thing 100 % and I think that's why it shocked the nation and the world do you know because that went across the world I don't even like saying the scumbag's name I want Lee Rigby to be remembered forever because they I know it's sad but if you allow them they would scrub him from history because let's just look at it now.

1:34:14When do they talk about him? When do they talk about Lee Rigby? And they say he was killed. You know, it's the dumbing down language they always use, like Southport killers. Oh, those children that were killed. No, mate, you're not. He wasn't killed. Those kids weren't killed. You're killed in a climbing accident or a car crash or in battle. They were murdered. He was murdered in the most brutal, cowardly fashion. run over and then right outside his barracks and then brutally murdered. That's, you know, listen, we can't have people like that in society. Nah. So that must have made it even more difficult to think we've got to wrap up the EDL now when you're fighting against people that are responsible for those kinds of crimes.

1:35:00So how did you manage to sort of box the EDL off? Well, that sort of rebooted it. Just when I was exhausted, I feel like, oh, I can't do this anymore. That gave a whole new impetus and that we sort of springed off again. So, you know, it kept us going for a lot longer and then it sort of died out again. And I just, it was just getting, it consumed me. It had taken over my life, you know, everything. So I just said to Steve one day, listen, what do you think? And he says, well, I think it's time. And I said, no, brother, I'm the same. I feel the same way. so how do we do it you know we'll hand over to someone let someone else take the reins now do you know what I mean so we decided to use Quilliam right as the news outlet even that went sideways do you know what I mean even that was like you know that didn't go to plan because they're a children horse operation anyway I think Quilliam just the name Quilliam yeah research that but But Majid Nares was all, he was nice on the face of things, but I still think he's heart-lined with Islam.

1:36:12Yeah, and the whole radical thing. Yeah, radical thing. And what freaked me out in there, brother, they had a lot of these white dudes, English Christian dudes, right, and girls, like, campaigning on their behalf. like there was this one I mean there's only one word I can use to describe him I don't like to speak to other people but he was a wet blanket and a bit of a bell end right this guy Jonathan right when we were announcing it's a bit of a weaselly rodent-y type you know in general but he just before we'd done the announcement right before we went out on the internet and across the world this too Bob gobshite he couldn't resist the temptation he tweeted out something I'm so proud and glad to announce to the world the that Quilliam are facilitating the decapitation of the English Defence League and it is no more as if he was taking the credit for it you know what I mean and someone told me this like it wasn't your resignation yeah like we were doing it against our will yeah and And we were just using them as the voice box, the soundboard to get it out, right?

1:37:31Well, I lost the rag. I ran around this whole building, the Quilliam building. It's not like me either. But I ran around the building looking for him. And, you know, I'd give him a kick up in his hole if I'd have found him. But for doing that, because it was already, from there it just went boom, all over the internet. Whereas it was supposed to come from me and Steve. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And he sort of stole the funder sort of thing, so to speak. But it wasn't that it was a funder, but he was just trying to make himself and his Quilliam organisation. They're a bunch of weirdos, brother, as well.

1:38:07They are a strange bunch. I mean, who are they, for those that don't know? Quilliam is an organisation that they say that they're working against extremist Islam and all this sort of stuff. Because imagine they'd done five years in Egypt for terrorism when he was a jihadi. but now he was like you know a multi-coloured sock wearing bow tie wearing you know individual campaigning and working working against it you can't trust anybody that's even been in that headspace no mate it's all Trojan horses and it's all Takiyah you know it's all it's a lot of baloney but these these guys I even said to him I said I can get these guys because they're born they are what they are they're born a bit like the converts you know they're born like that and that's their religion and that's how they've been brought up.

1:38:54But you, you're one of us. You know, you're like slash white slate Judeo-Christian, you know. Christian, you're born in England and you're Christian and you were raised in a Christian household. And now you're working on their behalf. And you know they're working against us. From athletic stuff like a full court pickup game, swish, to athletic-ish stuff like a half-mile stroll. Get those steps in. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all. From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. Propel Fitness Water. With Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins.

1:39:33Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade electrolytes. Why do you think there's a surge in white British Muslim reverts? And I don't even like calling them reverts. Yeah, what is that? That's a baloney Mahoney word, isn't it? It's just ridiculous. But they believe they're born Muslims, they just don't know it yet. Is that right? Yeah, I think they try and say that originally everybody was born Muslim and then people were taken away from it. It was a lot of old trodden. Why do you think there's a surgeon?

1:40:06I mean, a lot of them seem to be ginger. They're kind of, you can sort of spot one now, can't you? I'm telling you, as a redheading, because I was a redheaded lunatic as a child, yeah, I was wild. But, so the redhead thing, right. But one thing I'll tell you, Now, growing up in Luton, for me, just to backtrack on that, I used to get terrorised for being red. I took more shoo-ins and more kick-ins and more chases and got singled out more for being a redhead, right? And, mate, that's why a lot of redheads are angry. You don't really want to be pissing them off because they've got this anger thing in them, right, that they can summon up, this rage, right?

1:40:42And maybe that's a Celtic Viking type thing, yeah? But it's that DNA. They've got that genome in them and they can pull it out of the bag. But there's a load of young ginger kids that are getting terrorised for the hair colour and end up committing suicide, jumping out of the loft. And it's true. They get picked on. And it was almost acceptable on TV by TV personalities, demeaning, red-headed kids. Like it was some sort of like disease, the fact that they were ginger, right? But I know for a fact that the kids, the ginger kids at school, they get singled out and they get terrorised. Now, you're recruiting for Islam.

1:41:16You're looking to convert people, right? Now, along comes this ginger-headed lad that's been no mates at school, been bullied all through school, been isolated, bullied. All of a sudden, this guy comes up to him and says, no, let's do it, buddy. Come with us, brother. You'll be with us. And you've got to tip your action for this. So all of a sudden, they show this lad a lot of love, a lot of support, a brotherhood. You're trying to come with us, mate. You need to come to Islam. you'll be protected you'll have a whole family friends no one will be able to mess with you now to someone that's been bullied and terrorised all through their school life and their young adult and feels isolated and a bit conscious about their being ginger and all that yeah that's very attractive very appealing so they jump to it like a fly to the like a off to light bang you know so a lot of these ginger lads are converting because all of a sudden they've got friends, a brotherhood.

1:42:19No one can take the piss out of them anymore. Do you know what I mean? And it's not right anyway, but that's what they do. It's like in the prisons, they go for anybody that's vulnerable or isolated. Do you know what I mean? They'll recruit them in. And to be fair to them, I've said it many times, the brotherhood they do have, the fact that how they stick together. You mess with one, you mess with them all. That's very mafia-like, isn't it? Yeah. So that's very appealing. And to a lot of that, even me myself, my whole life, I've searched for like a brotherhood. Band of brothers. Band of brothers.

1:42:56Do you know what I mean? My whole life. And that's why I'm such a loyal dog. You know what I mean? You can't buy me. I can't be bought. No. I live in poverty, mate. It's to this day. I have nothing. So, but that's the price I was prepared to pay. You know, it is what it is. But searching for that band of brothers feeling and that feeling of belonging, that's a very alluring draw. They offer it and they've got it. So for a jihadist, a ginger guy is an easy target, easy recruit. Easy recruit. So when you ended the EDL, because it was your baby, you loved it, you lived and breathed it. I built it, I formed it, I started it, I built it.

1:43:34It was my baby. I put all my time, effort and energy in. I was consumed. Yeah. So like 100 % pure, unadult rate and passion. So when you divorced from the EDL, how did that feel? Yeah, it's kind of like a... Relief or sadness? It was a bit of relief for the pressure. You still get the pressure, obviously, because you can't just sort of switch off from it. It is what it is. So historically, that will always be associated with me. And it was a historical thing to do. There was a woman, just to... Sorry, you have to stop me digressing. Just to go... There was a woman that negotiated. She was an American woman.

1:44:07She helped with the negotiation of the Good Friday Agreement, a peace deal in Ireland. And we managed to have a little chat with her. and she said, look, what you've done is historical. It's history. You've broken down the North-South divide. That in itself was historical. And you've built this protest street movement, and it's actually part of British history. It'll have to be wrote in the history books. They can't scrub it. They can't deny the EDL. They cannot say the English Defence League was a massive influence on today's society. Because look at today. the cat's out the back. Look at Tommy's where he is, doing what he's doing.

1:44:49That's all down to the EDL. So that will always sort of be part of the following, but I did slip into depression and then sort of like, yeah, it was a multitude of fears, you know, it's, I'm a bit manic anyway, I suppose, because I'm sort of super Duracell bunny, get things done, OCD, you know, like everything where it's supposed to be. and it kind of like clashed with my head a bit, you know. What was your fondest memory? Fondest memory of the old days and the biggest regret, so we can yin and yang it. What were you most proud of? Everything, really. I mean, the whole, it's hard to put a little pin in it because I was just so proud of, like, the way we brought the country together.

1:45:38Like, you know, we've created this force. Do you know what I mean? The fact that I was instrumental in getting my brothers and sisters, my fellow countrymen and countrywomen, from all four corners of the country, the UK, and then like the globe, but specifically the country, to broke down all them barriers, all them stereotypes, you know, northern this, southern that, that all went out the window. Because let me tell you something, brother, the people of this country are great. We are a fantastic people. but what they try and do and they have done is try and tell us that we're nothing and we don't matter and other people are more important than us and this that no no no no the British people we are important and we are fantastic we are a tremendous tribe of people amazing tribe of people I love all I tell you I'm so man you know soft spots for individuals like the people like the North East the Geordies what magical people brother The best, didn't they?

1:46:40Yeah, the best. And not that everybody is. I love all our people, the Northwest lads, the Northeast lads, the Welsh lads, the Scottish lads. They're all great. But I've got a little soft spot for the Geordies. You and me both. Second home for me, Newcastle. Yeah, they're great. I lived there myself and they're great. They're just so great. But in general, the fact that we galvanised our nation, our people to stand up and be proud of themselves again and take to the streets and be proud of their identity and speak up against injustice and two-tier this and two tier that. You know, no, not having it.

1:47:11And so there's that. But also I've got to say exposing the grooming gangs. You know, that was, having my name on that was like, yeah. That's a lot of lives you've saved. You know what I mean? I always think of that. When I think about, you know, the chastisation and the media smears and the lies that were spread about you, I think, how come you don't ever print about the good side? because there is always a good side and most of it was good. And you did put this out there into the universe that there's a grooming gang epidemic that's going on. There are children, young girls being raped on an industrial scale by gangs of Muslim men.

1:47:53Hello, wake up, smell the coffee. And eventually we now have. But to be one of the fire starters of that, I just think, wow, the lives you've saved, I will forever be in your debt because, you know, stepchildren, stepdaughter, my friends have got daughters and I look at them and I think, well, it could have been you if there was no awareness added to it. And that's down to you. You played a big part. When I say it, it's I'm proud. Like, it's not just, it wasn't just me. It was like Tommy and it was all the people we worked with. Do you know what I mean? We worked with loads of people up north.

1:48:25I mean the Royal You. As a collective, if you like, I'd sit my hat. To be part of that. Because I was never part of the EDL. And so I still get, I'm still interested in finding out more and more about it. I know people probably think I was part of it because I'm close with you and Tom and I look the part, don't I? Yeah, from a stereotype. Yeah, yeah, but you're not like that, brother. I mean, what do you say to people that stereotype you? What do you say to people that have accused you of being racist over the years, for example? Oh, brother. It's an insane claim as well with anyone that knows you.

1:48:53Yeah, they're nuts. It's just nuts. And it's so frustrating as well. Because growing up in Luton, yeah, I've never been to another place like Luton from the dynamic that, like, the black and white lads in Luton, We were like that, bruv. We grew up together. We played football together. We clubbed together. We partied together. We fought together. And Luton is just that special type of place, yeah? And it was a fantastic town. And it's got a big Irish population and a big West Indian population. And for some reason, the Irish and the West Indians have always had this thing, you know? But in Luton, the black and white lads were like that anyway.

1:49:31Because we all just lived to each other. We lived next door to each other. We were on the same estates. we grew up together so all my peers that I looked up to like Johnny Ash and Desi P and all these lads and all the families big family names they were like my boxing coach they were they were just like wonderful people they were great do you know what I mean I had my best friends and like growing up I used to live with them and stuff I shared a flat with one of my best my best mates but they couldn't be furthest from the thing I used to go to the West Indian clubs on my own and just rock in there you know and the blues parties.

1:50:05I used to rock up, and I was that lad. So I'd walk in there, mate, and I'd be in there, in the 5-0 club it was, for everybody that knows the club in Luton, the 5-0, it was legendary. There was another one in the International, but that wasn't so good. I don't want to be keen on that one. But the 5-0, it was a real predominantly West Indian club, right next to the Goudwara and the Flyer in Luton. And I'd just go there and just, I'd have great nights. And I'd know everybody, and I'd get some curry goat and rice and peas, and it was a great night. Brilliant. and that's how I was brought up. And nobody could ever find a quote that you said that's racist if they tried, could they?

1:50:41There was no way. I just laughed. But, you know, and I couldn't really expect the members of the West Indian community to jump on a platform and start saying, no, no, he's my mate. Because there's too much pressure on people. Do you know what I mean? So whereas they didn't defend me sort of thing, when they all knew, they would all know that the stuff they were saying, like everyone, I knew that all the people that knew me would be saying when they were saying oh he's racist far right they'd all be saying what? Jeff you're joking mate yeah not in my whole life he's a friend of the family you know what I mean we love him you know what I mean I love them like genuinely I love them so they all know that's baloney but that's the left that's the tool isn't it there's a box of tools that they go to tools that they use and that's smears the far right Nazi racist lot of rubbish I've got sidetracked now again which I was worried about doing.

1:51:33Oh, yeah, it was the grooming thing. So, yeah, proud of that. Yeah, what you were proud of, great achievements. That was a great achievement. And all of us working as a collective, you know, tirelessly, it was great. You know, if you can stop one child being groomed, you know, that's worth everything. Like I said, you could brand me racist on the forehead with an eye and I'd wear it as a badge of honour. I said it in one of my speeches. I could stop one child. But the problem with that grooming thing, or still you go back, is… Finish that phrase because you said it to me privately and it's beautiful.

1:52:05Well, there was this massive denial. When we started talking about grooming gangs, they were saying, oh, you're lying. There's no such thing. Where? Where's these grooming gangs? And we were like, mate, we know where they are. We spoke to the families, the victims. You know, people didn't even know what a jihadi was. When we were saying that, they were saying, what's that? I had a lot of people say to me, what's that? But now it's household name. That's because of us. But the grooming gangs got uncovered because of us. like I said to you about Andrew Norfolk the journo he came to us and we told him about that he took credit for the story but he didn't believe us so we gave him contact details of people to go to see it up north in Yorkshire and Yorkshire and all the rotherham and that and he said I'm going to investigate it myself and then I'll find out a couple of weeks later mate he's getting back in touch saying I can't believe it this is it's industrial it's an like you say perfect word industrial scale like abusive young white British girls um And it's horrific, horrific.

1:53:01He was gobsmacked. He said, I'm just going to look more into it. He said, then we'll see what happens. So he'd done his investigation, and then he got back in touch. He said, look, this story is so big. I've uncovered a Nestor Viper, so big. I've gone to my boss, and I've got – we could do a story, 20 pages on this in the Times. That's a big newspaper. And he said, but we've had to sit here for hours and hours and hours and whittle it down to seven pages. Now, that's the story they rolled out. It was the front page of the Times, seven pages long. And he said to us, this is the biggest story the Times newspaper has ever done in its history since it was first started, the day it started.

1:53:40Never have they done a seven-page story. But he said, there's just so much to talk about and say. So, and then obviously, then it opened up and then it came out. But one of the chief of police up there is stuck in my core. He said, yeah, well, we knew it was going on, but we were so scared of being called racists that we swept it under the carpet. And I gave a speech in that particular police officer's chief of police's district. And I said, I'm telling you now, worried about being called a racist. So you allowed children to be raped, knowingly allowed them to be raped and brutalized. No, I said, listen, you could brand me with a hot iron racist across my forehead.

1:54:25and I walk around the rest of my life proud as punch, like a badge of honour, if it stopped one child being raped and groomed. So I said, so you were worried about hurty words, someone calling you a racist, you're a nasty racist. Yeah. So you let it happen. No, that's not, that's not an excuse. No, no, no, no. You're facilitated. You know, there's a big difference. You know, you're an enabler. You know, when you start doing that, you're an enabler. silence is compliance silence is compliance perfect yeah so anyway that was so that was like a big thing so I was proud of that and don't get me wrong Andrew Norfolk took all the credit and he said to us I won't be able to give you the kudos because of who you are we said we don't care you take all the credit but just get the story out there yeah just to get the cat out of the bag and that's what it did yeah and that's exactly what happened so you know he can keep all his awards I think he got an award recently about that or something I don't know biggest regrets I've got a lot of regrets but

1:55:28a lot that sticks in my mind and it's nothing to do with the activities right from athletic stuff like a full court pickup game swish to athletic stuff like a half mile stroll get those steps in head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all from athletic to athletic Sierra's got it Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade electrolytes.

1:56:11Oh, it's too much shame, really. You know, I say this out loud. Bloody hell, I can't believe we're going to say it. All right. So when I say I was like obsessed with the movement, yeah, it was my baby. I meant it was my baby. I, thousand percent in.

1:56:35And I loved my wife, right? and we were together for many, many, many years, decades, right?

1:56:47And one day I came in from the house. I came into the house and I was rushing around. I always ran in the door, dump stuff, run back out. Got to do the same. So she says to me, oh, can you just stop and stay for an hour and we'll have to get in there and talk about normal stuff? I said I've got stuff to do love I've got this is big I've got this thing tomorrow I've got if I don't do it it's not going to happen blah blah blah blah I've got to do it and anyway got into this little bit of the thing with her and she said oh I'm bloody sick of it you know it's like it's all idiot what about me what about kids blah blah blah the house you know and to my shame right and it sticks with me and she'll and if and if she's listening or she watches this god love her she's a wonderful wonderful woman a magical human being lovely to the core right deep down she's a lovely human being um and she was it was her birthday 21st just gone there a couple days ago happy birthday hen I can throw that out to her there you go happy birthday love you know I'll always love you anyway but um I said to her I can't believe I did it but uh I looked her right in the eye.

1:58:07This is 20-odd years into marriage, right? I said to her, what? I was so taken aback by her, like, trying to stop me, do what I was doing. I said to her, listen. I'll never forget, she was standing at the sink, right? She said, I said to her, she looked at me and I said, don't make me choose between you and the EDL, love. I actually said that out loud to my wife.

1:58:42I can't believe I said it. But I did say it. But that's where I was. But the good news is, mate, there'll be a lot of people watching that have done a lot worse. Oh, yeah. Don't worry. But it's a big deal to you because you're a loyalist. Yeah. For me to say that to my... Not just to your country, but to your inner circle. Brother, I love my country. I'm a patriot through and through. I don't care what anyone says. I'm English born and bred and that's me. I love my nation. I love my people. I love my wife. I love my family. But to say those words, and I'll tell you why, because it was the look in her eye when I said it.

1:59:26Her eyes just glazed instantly. And the look in her face. and I knew that I'd wounded her probably irreversibly. Right? So I've done mad stuff and lots of bad things, but, you know, like words... Stick. You know, like old Sher says, whatever it is, like words are like weapons. They can wound sometimes. They can, can't they? The power of life and death lay in a tongue. I knew I'd hurt her. That done me, brother. It was too late. I couldn't take it back. It's gone into the ether. and I looked at her and I knew the guy's glazed up and I knew what she was thinking and feeling and I thought oh my god did I just say that to you and I know it doesn't sound a big deal but at the moment to you it is yeah to me it is it haunted me and it haunts me to this day well that's testament to you being a good man if you ask me it just haunts me brother and talking to good men tongue in cheek sarcasm Charles King Charles so So I cottoned on when you said that you was never a royalist or you're not a royalist.

2:00:34I thought I'm going to put a pin in that and come back to see what you think about Charles. Where do you think his heart is? I'm just going to speak candidly about this, right? And it bears nothing on my patriotism and my allegiance to my country, yeah? My people. Because it's the people that I'm loyal to, right? Because the people are the country. I'm not loyal to Westminster, to 650 crooks, you know, politicians, I'm not loyal to them. That's not my country. The royal family, to me, that's not my country. The Queen was great as a figurehead, and we all do respect to the Queen, yeah? But it's not like the days of old, when the kings and the queens led from the front, you know, in the charge.

2:01:24You know, I don't support the... I mean, look at more Fergie and look at Andrew and Harry and Megan and all that. I couldn't give a swinging monkeys flying toss for any of them, bruv. No. Right. They're all a bunch of parasite ponces and egomaniacs, megalomaniacs and narcissists. I can't bother them. But did I get enough out there? I don't know. But could get some backlash for this, right? Could get some backlash for this. But no, I'm just not, you know, I loved old Diana. god bless her I thought she was great I like Kate and William out of all of them right Kate's a real princess she conducts herself like a princess right Meghan Harry give a stuff for them shameful conduct you know how they've represented the royal family in our country but Andrew Bellend this mate and then Charles.

2:02:29I didn't like him when he was Prince Charles. I had no time for him, neither did my father. I always thought he was a bit of a wet blanket, a drip, you know, God forgive me. But now he's king. You know, you're supposed to be a king of our nation, yeah? Then be a king. Be King Lee. And a defender of the faith. This is where I'm going, brother. And you, my friend, are supposed to be defender of the faith. Now, these lands are Christian lands, yeah? We're not multicultural. Multicultural is the biggest con word, buzzword, made up like Islamophobia. It's just a made up bullshit word, right? We're not multicultural.

2:03:07The culture of this land is Christianity. The foundational building blocks of our laws, of our way of life, our customs, our traditions, everything is based on Christianity, right? Yeah, you can be from a different religious background and do something different. And you can practice your faith and you can do what you want to do. But you will be one of those, like a Hindu or Buddhist or whatever, whilst residing in a Christian land, right? So you have to respect and adhere to the ways of our culture. This multiculturalness, what a con for diluting and getting rid of a nation's identity, right?

2:03:47That's all it is. It's a part of the big con, right? It's a much bigger plan. Anyway, so stuff that. So you are supposed to represent Christianity. I get angry with King Charles. I'm 100 % convinced he's a Muslim. Right? I'm going to throw it out there. I think it's well known in his inner circle that he's a Muslim. And he practices the faith. He's a practicing Muslim. I'll tell you a little story. I knew a man that worked, was cleared and vetted to work on one of his homes, their lands. and they had this little fancy-dancy little shed thing in the back garden and inside was, he had a look in there, and there's a mat, there's nothing to sit on, there was just a rug, mat on the floor, prayer mat.

2:04:33He told me that story, and I thought, mate, 100%, I already know. And then he, speeches he's given before, years and years, he's always bigging up, he said, oh, we can learn so much from Islam and Islam has brought so much to the table and all this sort of stuff. What? Baloney, what? We stopped the gates of Vienna. If it wasn't for the Polish stopping the Ottoman Empire, the gates of Vienna, you, the royal family, us, the West Christians, wouldn't even exist. They haven't brought nothing to us but war, conflict. They won't convert us or we die. Right? And thanks to the Polish, legends, they stopped them.

2:05:15But you're supposed to defend our faith. you know you're supposed to have all this knowledge and be on board you're not even giving speeches at Easter you'll give them about Ramadan and Eid you're not even you're refusing to do a king's speech for Easter to the people of this Christian nation at Easter our most holiest of days Easter is the most important day in the Christian calendar because it's about the resurrection of Christ so I'll tell you that on board I'll tell you that personal because obviously I'm Christian much more sort of developed now than I was. But I think that's disgusting. What kind of behaviour of a king of a Christian nation and a defender of the faith refuses to give a Easter speech for the Christians of that land, of his nation, that he's king of?

2:06:08He doesn't do that, but he gives one for Ramadan. I mean, you've got great grounds to go on to assume that King Charles is a Muslim. It's based on the fact that, you know, someone that's had clearance to his grounds and they've found a prayer mat. In this little fancy. That's outrageous. Little garden hut thing or native thing. They told me years ago and I knew it and my dad knew it as well. My dad's always said, he's a Muslim. Go and see it. Now, now on the subject of faith, I want to come to that in a minute. But talk to me about more recent, your more recent life. You've had a few, it's in the public domain, so I'm going to have to go there.

2:06:43You've obviously had some problems because you've, you was in jail for a little while. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Made some mistakes, you know. What happened there and what was going on at the time in your life and in your head? I started to spiral out, you know, and sort of 2020. And I started to spiral out and I was, listen, I was substance abuse, alcohol. What pain were you numbing to do that? Because you're always in pain if you're using something. I was just on my own, right? I'd lost everything. lost my wife, family, homes, work, everything you could think of, lost it, you know, and then ended up, and then I lost everything, got stripped down to the bone, ended up losing me dignity, everything, just carved to the bone, brother, I lost everything.

2:07:27And you get deeper and deeper into alcohol, you're trying to use that as a medicine, I suppose. And then, like, substance abuse, you know, oh, mate, and it just, it was a never ending, just spiral. And I had a lot of stuff going on with a lot of like idiots as well. So I ended up just spiraling out and just, then my mental health took a real, like, I think it all just, boom. I suppressed it for so long. It just hit me. You know what I mean? And I thought I'd lose myself in drink and drugs and whatever. And that just made it worse, like 10 times worse, you know? And I had to have run-ins with the police and all that.

2:08:08And this is what – look, the police, they were so good with me. Like Bedfordshire Police, like Northamptonshire Police, Kempston Police, they were so good with me. They treated me with such dignity. And, like, they were so good with me. Like, big shout-out to them. Wonderful. So I can't knock them, you know. They were really professional. Is this when they nicked you? Yeah, but even when they nicked me, they were sound with me. They were super cool with me. And what was the charge? Well, I got nicked so many times. so many charges for different things but they weren't major things were they the charge are we talking the charge for what I got jailed for yeah yeah that was dangerous driving possession of a bladed article threats you know just three different charges and to be honest with you this is how many it is I can't even I can't even remember because when that happened I was in the middle of like this massive like absolute complete mental breakdown.

2:09:05Yeah. I mean, like proper, proper mental breakdown. Like, I didn't even know what planet I was on. I thought the devil was chasing me all over the world. You know, I just, oh, brothers, it's such a dark, dark place. It was, and I was on my own. Like, no disrespect to Tom, but Tom has this big support, you know, sort of around him and that, willing to like do everything and anything for him. I didn't have none of that. I was like, the poor relation. It's like the poor knacker relation. Right. Don't get me wrong. I just got a frat out there while I'm talking about that because I'm laughing. But Tommy is, Tommy is without question, the bravest.

2:09:50I've got to say it because it's a drop beyond record. He is without, shadow of a doubt, the bravest, one of the bravest men. I've met a couple of brave people that have stand up and women, but he is without doubt the bravest lad. right I'm not kidding you and I mean he's so ballsy mate it's a wheelbarrow he needs do you know what I mean get his balls about he is so ballsy and he's fearless bruv he is fearless and people underestimate him and that's the biggest mistake they ever make because I've seen many a 6 foot 4 18 stone lump come unstuck against him mate you know if you want to stick it odd in boy you better know your onions because you'll be going for a kip do you know what I mean but he is and he's funny the geezer as well but he's very witty very sharp witted he can have a good crack with him but I don't know how I got on that tangent I felt like I had to get it out yeah put it on record yeah because I'm trying to make the thing between me and Steve like so he's doing great things now and all that and you know good luck and god bless I wish I had kept going you know but that was out of my hands but so he's doing that and I sort of I just found myself on my own spiralling Yeah, on my own, spying out.

2:11:04PTSD, dealing with that? Yeah, I had massive PTSD. I still suffer with that. You know, there are a few things, but this is all from the traumas. But when you're moving at a thousand miles an hour, you don't take in the traumas. And I, you know, and everyone could say it, but just life was traumatic for me from childhood right through, you know what I mean? So just glad to have school for me growing up in Luton. How mad things happened, even when I was young. I don't know, I was about 18. I was walking to the pub on Saturday night and a car pulled up beside me and asked me for directions. and you know as you do you go to lean over right you lean up you go over and say you alright mate where's so and so right mate and I'm leaning on the window where it's down and I go right and I'm looking in the car and I go you go down here right you go down here you turn left and as I looked again the geezer's pulling a shotgun in my face what for and this was way way this was when I was 19 20 you know all these sort of things happened to me but it's just that mad shit right so you know and I was on my way to the pub to meet the lads and then he goes yeah And I was like, whoa, lads, what?

2:12:04And they just started laughing. It was two A's and that's funny enough. They go, yeah, you fucking white bastard. I was like, lads, lads, I'm just going out of the pub. Right? And I was only 19. So they just drove off. And I remember standing there for a couple of minutes thinking, what the fuck? What the fuck? And I was like 500 jars from the wheat sheet for the pub. And then, so I got in the pub and I was like, are you all right? I said, yeah. I said, no, bro, for something mad just happened to me. You don't believe it. Shit like that happens. So I suppose some people could have did counselling after that.

2:12:35So your spiral was always only a matter of time before you actually took the time to stop and sit there and then it's going to creep in on you. So you've got banged up. And this is the first time you've actually been to jail? Yeah, that's the first time I've been to jail. I mean, I've been nicked loads of times and sailed loads of times and held and all that, like, you know. Was it like actually finally getting jailed for real in your 50s? That was so trippy. For the first two weeks, right, Because when I got nicked, I got, that particular night, they tasered me six times. They had to double handcuff me because I was struggling.

2:13:11And the cuffs, they dug so deep into my wrists, they scarred me to this day. But they cut in because I was, like, moving. So they went into my wrists so deep that when I was in, and I had a whole tin of pepper spray. so I was all burnt my lips all scabbed up and all that mouth looked like I had something you know and then these two big scabby pussy cuts around my wrists when I was in they put you into like on a different part of the prison two weeks before you go onto the main wing so we're on the ladder in there and he goes fuck you mate what's the matter with you I said no no that's alright that's pepper spray and that was the cuffs he goes oh I thought you had something I was thinking stay away from you in the dinner queue do you know what I mean I said no it's not STD lads, trust me.

2:13:59So I was tripping out. So I was two weeks trying to get my head round. I'm in this place. And then one day they come for me and said, you're going up on the wing. So they was taking me up on the wing. And then, but when they took me to the cell, they locked me in my cell. They didn't let me out for three weeks. I said, well, how come I can't get out of the cell? And they said, no, we've got security issues. I was like, oh. And it was the middle of summer. It was roasting hot. Oh my gosh. And one day the cell door opened up and there was these two lads standing outside. I've got to tell you about this.

2:14:28And they were looking in, they were saying, yeah, all right, mate. I said, all right, lads, how are you? They said, listen, we're going to try and get you out of your cell. I'm having a word with the, with the gov and the miss, and the miss together. You need to get out of your cell, miss, blah, blah, blah, blah. They said, well, we've got issues. And I said, I'll be all right. I said, just let me out on the wing, I'll be all right. And they said, no, no, there was this big fella saying, no, you'll be all right out on the wing with us, mate. And it turns out these lads, Elliot Burton, his father and son, and Connor, two of the best lads, great lads.

2:14:57And they looked after me in prison. And that was trippy in there for me. But I think Elliot knew I was in the middle of a – because he goes, I've watched a lot of your videos. He said, you don't seem to be the bloke that I'm watching on these speeches and stuff. And I said, bruv, I think I'm in a bit of a meltdown. Because it's important for me as a friend to actually put in here now because it's not been made clear, that you didn't go out causing random havoc for the sake of it. You didn't go out with a criminal intention. I would say you was having like a paranoid PTSD episode. Yeah, induced by I was getting a bit of jip off a couple of lads.

2:15:32I thought, you know, in my head, it's a complicated thing to explain. So I was getting a bit of harassment at the time. So anything would set me off, right, in my head. but I was just I'd be sitting in my house one minute next minute I'd be running down the street do you know what I mean thinking like devil himself after me do you know what I mean Satan himself was coming for me and that's why I mean it's important to put that on record because I'm sure the media would love the public to think that you're a horrible criminal no that wasn't criminal stuff but it wasn't no no it was me mental you was escaping your own mind yeah mental health things just complete meltdown and defending yourself from things that maybe weren't even there yeah and it was lockdown as well I was like but I'm telling you the way the police handled me was so they were so spot on I'm not joking they were so good with me mate they treated me with such dignity and like understand it was very empathetic so which I you know you wouldn't think the police would lean that way a little bit but I'm telling you all the police that I dealt with were just so good with me and if they're listening here kudos to you and much love and respect to the lot of you do you know what I mean you get my you know the job you used to.

2:16:46And they're dealing with this stuff on a daily basis, bruv, all over the country. And people knock the police. This one gives me the ump. I get the ump about it because I think, listen, you go and do their job. You go and do their job and see if you don't get stressed out. What a job. I want to ask you one final question, which I know for you is probably going to be the most important today, particularly for the here and now for you. But before I do ask that one, I just want to ask you, how would you describe and it's horrible talking about yourself but who is Kev Carroll? Wow, see, that's a question, brother.

2:17:25That's a question. Listen, do I know? Do I even know?

2:17:33To describe myself, I'm just a lad from Luton. I'm just a Lutonian lad who's a chippy, who's grown up in Luton. I've got no problem with no one I've never started instigated grief with no one like never you won't find a person on this planet that can say I've instigated anything harmful to them or bullied them or done something wrong to them or ripped them off or anything like that nah never gonna happen you know so I'm just this normal lad from Luton that's grown up that's been put into this that was thrown into this scenario that decided to do something I've got the hump you know and I'll help anyone you know I love me animals and all that you know that's why they nicknamed me Dr.

2:18:14Doolittle you know thanks for that Steve but I love wildlife and mother nature and the world you know what I mean I love people I love my people so I'll help anyone I'll never see someone in distress you know don't matter who it is man, woman, child police officer I'm not I'm not standing by and watching anybody getting attacked or injured or wronged I always felt I needed to stick up for them um I'm just like, but you know, listen, I'm just an ordinary lad and I think, you know, there's nothing evil or wicked about me. Do you know what I mean? And like now, I'm sort of like, and I've been swearing in here and all that, but I'm into my faith, you know, my Christian faith and God and all that now, Jesus.

2:19:02So that was going to be, this is my final question to you. I want you to talk about your faith. How you found God or how God reappeared in your life, what it's done for you and how important your whole faith system is? Because I know it's important to you. Yeah, like I say. You've brought your Bible with you. Yeah, and brother, I would just like, don't stop it, mate. I can't help you because I know the crap we have. This is my Bible, right? I watched a interview you've done with, Pastor Ricky gave me this, right? Who is a wonderful man, right? I love Ricky. He's a wonderful man. He sent me that Bible.

2:19:41with a letter inside it when I was in prison. It's a lovely letter. And you can't get a Bible in prison. You can get a Quran, but you're not allowed to have a Bible. So I was like, oh, I was pretty desperate and I was in a bad place. And I thought, and I've always been a Christian, but I was a lazy Christian. I was a lukewarm Christian, you know what I mean? I wasn't like committed. I was doing what everyone else was doing, you know. and then but he sent me that Bible in it's a beauty as well and that letter and I read that letter I thought and that really oh mate I can tell you what I can't tell you the strength that gave me in prison right and a lot of times I love the man himself anyway Ricky he's such a lovely man and then when I come out I sort of I leaned on that and I just started reading my Bible and started getting into it and it just sort of it started getting on and on me but then I found myself in a real desperate desperate situation and I was living in this derelict house right no ceilings and cables hanging down and no windows and derelict house because I've been homeless for like so long I'm homeless now so more or less I use an address but I was in this derelict house and I was sitting there And I was drinking and I was just so desperate.

2:21:07I just, I literally, brother, I just, I've had a few things like this, like the Holy Spirit moment sort of thing. I just literally called out. I know it sounds mad. I literally called out to God to help me, right? Just like, help me, God. I just need help. Just help me, please. I begged him, like, Jesus, help me. And nothing happened then. and I was like just kind of doing anyway I went through this thing next morning bruv I I hand on my arm next morning I didn't want to have a drink I didn't want to do nothing I felt different I was like boom felt the need to read my bible more ba da bing ba da boom ba da bing ba da boom and it's just everything I just completely changed the next morning and from that day on and now I haven't touched a drop in three years I haven't done anything in three years How better is life for you now you've got the Lord in your life?

2:22:07Listen, people, the system, the establishment the lunatic brigade, they can do what they like because you can kill my body but you ain't going to kill my soul because I've got my faith in Jesus and God and that's it and I don't care what anyone says and there's one thing a bit of advice I would say to the youth of today and the men of today is we need to get back to our faith, right? Because they've made it like, they've made this image like they've done everything that if you say you believe in God or Jesus or you go to church, you're some sort of gimpy weirdo or wimp or you're weak. Well, no one says that to the Muslims, do they?

2:22:46When they confess their faith, I think they're big, like brave warrior men or any other faith. It's just when it comes to God and Jesus. And so I would say to men, stop we need as a nation we need to start getting back to our faith our Christian faith you know because that's we were great the men and women that fought in the second world war and the first world war every single one of them would be going to church and have living their Christian values but now they've all gone and it's been deliberately eroded so I think society is much better when we have standards you know what I mean we've got every other girl woman on OnlyFans now everything seems to have gone into the gutter.

2:23:29You know, the moral compass as a nation is just, it's pointing to, instead of pointing to True North, it's pointing to the Bermuda Triangle. You know, we need to get back to True North. How do you think we've made Christianity more appealing? Because you can see why Islam's appealing to people in need of support and groups and brotherhoods, and it's strong, and it doesn't bend for anybody. So I can see, although I don't agree with Islam, but you can see the attraction. You can see the allure in there because it's all for one and one for all. And like you say, if you mess with one, you mess with them all.

2:24:03So how does a Christian make Christianity more alluring and how do you make it more muscular, make it more something that young men want to get into now? It's like, oh, I like this. How do we do that? I suppose it lies mostly with the parents because if you're not taking your kids to church or teaching them Christian values and stuff like that, how are they going to know? to get to 16, 18, they're just on the party train, the young person train. Back in the day, our forefathers, my father, my father's devout anyway, but my grandfather and his grandfather, they were big, strong, fit, able-bodied, very, very brave men, soldiers, fighting men, they fought in the wars.

2:24:45They were proud. They all carried their Bibles and knew their prayers. Do you know what I mean? They were proud to be, to practice their faith as Christians. Do you know what I mean? So, and it wasn't being, there wasn't that stigma attached to it. Like it was, it meant you were some sort of like weakling or lesser, you're not as strong as a big butch burly man. No, no, no, no. If you look through our history, this country from top to bottom is stained and soaked with the blood of Christian warriors defending this land, fighting, whether it was internal fighting or external fighting, fighting invaders or fighting amongst themselves.

2:25:26Those men were Christian men and they were ferocious. You couldn't get any more masculine. You couldn't get any more warrior-like, you know? So how they've built that stigma on this, no, no, no, no. You can be a Christian soldier, mate. You can be a Christian warrior. We're in desperate need of a warrior class, aren't we? We need a warrior class. That's what I'm saying. We need a whole generation. what have we been not that they all are but the fact that they've got these young men and women looking for safe spaces and cry spaces and don't get me started on that and what is a man and what is a woman shut up you idiot you absolute imbecile there's only men and women that's it and the rest is a host of mental illnesses a multitude of mental illnesses that's all that is You know, biological males, biological females.

2:26:23Not to get on that tip. But fundamentally, Adam and Eve, there wasn't no transgenders knocking around the Garden of Eden. Do you know what I mean? So if anyone out there that's feeling lost, downtrodden, forgotten, kind of floating around, not doing a great deal, and they need some guidance, you recommend strongly to pick up that book? I recommend find a local church, find someone, a mentor, a pastor, pick up your Bible, read your Bible, walk into a church. It depends what you're looking for. I mean, you've got the Catholic church, which is great, but it's very sort of orthodox, you know, sort of strict type of, you know, it's not lively.

2:27:01Like Pastor Ricky's church is very lively, animated like the Pentecostals. You can go into any church. Choose your church, but just go into a church and seek, look for your faith, search for your faith. That's who you are. We are. We're all, all the men and women in this country, we are Christians. Do you know what I mean? Fundamentally. Can you ever see yourself making a comeback into the patriot movement, whether it be talking about culture, God, politics, society? Oh, brother. If you come in from a different angle that wasn't going to bring you unwanted stress. Well, listen, even this podcast will probably expedite circumstances and issues and speed things up and make things happen.

2:27:45Things will probably happen because of this podcast. Because you know there's a lot of people in the movement that miss you. I get asked all the time. It's one of the first questions I get asked, if I speak to anybody that's part of the Patriot movement, how's Kev? Have you spoke to Kev? When was the last time you saw Kev? Tell Kev I love him. You miss. People be in the comments. It's nice to know. They'll be concurring with me. But listen, brother, I don't think I'm anybody special. I'm telling your brother, my feet were on the ground all the time. I just looked at myself like everyone else. So I was just a lad.

2:28:17But that's what makes you special. But there's so many special people and groups of people that we had. You know, I miss a lot of the lads that I spent a lot of time with, you know, Edda's and Saxon and all that and all the Lanesfield lads. And, you know, there's so many lads. I want to know, are you going to make a comeback, Kev? Yeah. I don't know really how does that happen. I mean, someone would have to present an opportunity for me to do something or to be part of something or, you know, because, brother, at present I I survive by the skin of my teeth right that's that's the gospel truth I hand to mouth do you know what I mean so I I I literally I'm sailing on the wind brother so I don't know keep them guessing you know I mean look that's just don't give the game away keep them guessing Kev keep them guessing no but listen I mean doing this podcast was like a a big thing you know like I was anxious about it and I'm thinking ooh you know and I'm telling you now and I'll get this on the record as well there is I would never there is not another being other than your good self that I would have spoken to about this I would not have sat across from anyone else and said all this it would never have happened it would have it would have died with me do you know what I mean all the whatever memories and all that and that's gratefully appreciated by the way which I've said to you before and it was a tough one for me and you because we're pals I didn't want to reach out and say come on the podcast because I didn't want you to think that I'm using you for content over friendship so that's why I never said a word so when we got chatting you said you'd like to I would yeah I thought perfect because I'd love to because this for me would be a legacy piece because I know the real Kev Carroll I know who you are so this is It's been a beautiful exchange for me.

2:30:15So thank you. No, but brother, listen, you know I love you like with everything. Likewise. Right? You are my brother, right? Literally. And that's how I look at it. And I love you to the – you couldn't get any more love, brother. So you're the only person I would do it with. I appreciate that. Because there's no one out there in a position that I love that could have possibly asked me these questions. And you've really kept yourself to yourself for like a good few years now. You've been looking after your mum and dad. We won't go into that, but you've been doing God's work there. So again, I tip my hat and it's just that nurturing side of you coming into its natural life force.

2:30:57But how's it been for you sitting here talking for two and a half hours after so long staying silent? I was a bit anxious and a bit nervous because I'm a secret squirrel. So I don't hear from no one. I don't see no one. you know I've gone through the whole phases of feeling sorry for myself and all that stupid stuff you know I've got abandoned and all that and then just go through all the motions human motions you know what I mean and then just ended up I'm just on my own so I'm a secret screw I like to keep myself like my private life private sort of thing but you enjoyed going down memory lane the mad thing is I'm sitting here now thinking I could roll I could roll another 24 hours solid I know With stories.

2:31:41The police commission, the FIFA building, the whole nine. I could roll with all them stories. A thousand stories. Which is why I say, if I did a book, I could do three books. Easy. Well, I purposely left a few bits out that wouldn't really flow with today's interview so that you can come back and we can do another part in a year. Oh, well, that's happy days, brother. So that's all coming. So let's cap it off. What would your final message to the masses be today? Well, what I would say is everybody, the people of this nation, right, if I was addressing them, I would say, listen, you are a fantastic, beautiful, amazing, wonderful people as a culture, as a people, as a nation.

2:32:23the history that what our forefathers done and what they've sacrificed for us to have society as today and it's being attacked and eroded you know with the immigration with everything your culture your values everything our children are being violated and attacked our people our women can't walk the street safe at night my and the corruption in politics my gosh as a people I would urge the people of this nation from me, from Kev Carroll to stand up and move forward and say enough is enough we're not having it and I don't mean that as an armed revolution I mean get involved active, support Tommy you know, support everything fight for your right to exist, fight for the right your right in a Christian land to be able to walk the streets of your own land, strong in your faith, strong in your identity, unaccosted.

2:33:26You know, be proud to be who you are, because I'm proud to be English, and I know that everybody else is proud, and so you should be. And for too long, these individuals have tried to make us feel lesser or ashamed of our, look at what they're trying to do about our flag. Don't let them do it to you, folks. Be proud of your flag. Be proud of the George Cross. Be proud of the union, Jack. Well, that's the inside. Just walk tall and don't be afraid to speak up. Don't be afraid to speak up. You're not happy with something. You see something that's out of line. You think something's not right. Speak up and vote with your feet.

2:34:01You know what I mean? That's all I want on record. I love my nation. I love my people. And that is a perfect sign off. And now we're going to go have some dinner. Love you, geezer. Brother. Thank you. Lemmy, I love you, brother. Trust me with that. Listen, I trust you with my life, brother. Yeah, likewise. Likewise. I'm now going to trust you with my dinner.