Woke Comedian Endorses Antifa | Racism Was Rife: Jeff Innocent

25:37I mean, I'm not active politically anymore. I don't get involved. I'm probably just what you might call a liberal now. And I'm probably just more concerned about the way I live my life on a personal level. In those days, a lot of us still, I mean, I'm not saying we thought there was going to be a revolution, but I mean, you know, Thatcher and all of that, we're all over that. And what was it she'd done that your group would object to? Well, it wasn't my group. It was just the general feeling about Thatcher is that she wasn't in our interest. And she was very anti-union, of course. And that's all we had in those days to represent us unions.

26:16What was the milk thing that they spoke about? Well, I think her reputation is that when she was a minister, before she became prime minister, she stopped free milk at schools. That's right. I know that if anyone says anything pro-Thatcher on X, for example, that's their go-to. Oh, no, right, right. But that's kind of the end of the argument. It's like, you've got to do better than that. So, yeah, and of course, you can't really be right-wing and have black friends either, can you? You know, that doesn't really work, you know. How does that work? You know, being right-wing is essentially anti-immigration, you know.

26:51It's pro-white. So it just all fits in. Would you be pro-migration now the way it's happening with the people coming over on the boats illegally? Well, I haven't got a problem with that because that only represents about 4 % of immigration. So I haven't really got an issue with immigration or any of that at all. And how did the anti-Nazi league compare to, say, like Antifa now, for example? Would you still be pro-Antifa? Yeah, it's pretty much a similar incarnation, just an earlier incarnation. You know, and they were imbued by the, what's his name, the Rivers of Blood speech. Enoch Powell. Enoch Powell.

27:29That was part, you know, part of their thing. Yeah, you know, so you didn't think you were making any real political decisions. It just seemed quite natural that you were anti-racism, you know. But then I went to university, of course, and then studied history and politics and philosophy. But that came a bit later, sorry, so I'm jumping ahead a little bit. So I've always been into reading, books, politics. Yeah, roll with it because we'll come off politics in a minute. But I will have to say, because people will be thinking wisely and pushing back on the right wing, sort of you've got to be anti-migration and racist.

28:08I mean, I'm definitely on the right-hand side of politics. There's not a single person of colour I object to. I welcome migration that's going to contribute and add value and exchange value. And also, I don't know anyone on the right wing that is racist. I've never actually met in the flesh a bonafide racist. Never. So it's important I put that in there to fight for my side. But different back in your day, I appreciate that. I mean, yeah. I know that. Yeah, yeah. Sure. I mean, I used to go to watch Arsenal play when I was a kid. And I remember people throwing bananas on the pitch when Mickey Thomas or Rocky Roe Carlson were taking a throw-in.

28:49So that's the world I grew up in. So I have witnessed racism back in the day. But for me, it doesn't exist anymore. But also, on a personal level, one side of my family is Jewish, Eastern European, great-grandparents, and the other side is Irish. So I come from an immigrant background myself. Right. Do you believe the Jews are controlling the world and responsible for everything? That's blown my mind. Well, that's been going on for a long while. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm honest, the whole Jewish thing, I'm very late to the party. I mean, I could never understand why everyone didn't like the Jews and then now it's sort of resurfaced.

29:22Well, that's been going on for thousands of years, hasn't it? Yeah. I sort of kept out of politics for years. Sure. But all this Jew hatred has seemed to have manifested again. Sure. I think, shit, imagine being a Jew walking around Dundon now. Well, I mean, it's interesting because the Anti-Nazol League, I'm just reading a book about the 43 group, which was a group set up after the Second World War, maybe in between the words, in the East End. Vivaldi Sassoon, the hairdresser, was part of it. And they were a core of ex-service, working-class ex-service Jews that come from the East End, so cognizant, who were trying to put a stop to Oswald Mosley and the fascist meetings and fascist violence on the streets of the East End.

30:04So if you look at it on that level, It's the same thing, you know. And they were coming out, all the villains, all the Jewish villains were coming out, helping the 43 group. So they were set up to battle the sort of thing that we're seeing, that we saw up north, or we saw an entry where they set fire to immigrants' hotels and houses and stuff. So they were there to stop the violence, really, because the police weren't doing anything about it. But there was very much an anti-Jewish thing in those days, of course, because the British soldiers were fighting Jews in Palestine. So there was a lot of anti-Jewish feeling then as well.

30:41So it's all quite complex, but it's still going on. And it was going on there. What about religion? Which way do you swing there? Oh, I'm not religious in any way. I wasn't brought up as a religious person. I don't have any religious beliefs. No, I don't either. I'm not burdened with that, thankfully, but a lot of people I know are. Yeah, yeah, Sam, I speak to a lot of people that are, you know, really their religion is their guidebook to their life. And without it, they'd be kind of lost. But I've never been religious. I hope people listening and watching this realise that people can actually have a conversation with different political beliefs and actually get on.

31:15Well, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not about – I mean, I don't mean this in a – I don't care what other people think. I'm not – I mean, it was a time. It was a time when I'd want to argue about everything. But I just don't do that anymore. I'm the same. But by that, I mean, I'd like to see less conflict in the world, obviously, less conflict in the country, more people listening to each other rather than like immediately going at each other's throats because there's a slight difference. Just have a little listen, get a bit of a better understanding. And you do not have to agree at all, but at least give somebody the honour of explaining how they believe and just think, OK, well, you grew up.

31:53That was your life experience. It makes sense. My life experience was that. Hopefully that makes sense. Yeah, because I mean, in some ways, even though I have to remain relevant and I'm modern and I'm contemporary and but I am a person of my time. And that's that was the situation with me growing up. When you're on stage doing your long format comedy, is it a blatant left wing political act? No, no, nothing's blatant. Does it keep people guessing? Because I wasn't. Well, there is a certain ambiguity about things, but I think essentially there's a kind of liberal, a liberal base to everything I do where I'm a good guy.

32:29or on the side of the underdog. But no, I'm not an overtly political comedian, but I am subtextually or implicitly probably political. I talk about having a gay son. I talk about having a black wife. I talk about having a Jewish dad. So if all those things are acceptable to somebody who looks and sounds like me, that is kind of making a political statement. It's funny because you look like a homophobic racist. Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah. But I think that's been to my advantage. You know, the comedy hangs on that. And you wear all the old football gear. Oh, I love that anyway, though, yeah. That's not a costume.

33:06That's just the way I dress. The old tracksuit tops. Yeah, yeah. Oh, they're great. Yeah, yeah, I've got a load of those. Yeah. I mean, you're a very interesting character because you're sort of, people judge people by the way they look. And we all do it. Somebody walks in the room, whether you like it or not, me included, I'm being judged. And then until you start speaking, it's like, oh, there's layers here. But I think that's been a good source of my comedy, really. Once I worked that out, it took me a while to work that out because I think when I first started, I was a bit of a Jack the Mad, more of a character, I think, when I first started.

33:35And I think a lot of people do that as a protection device when you get on stage. Getting to the real you is the most difficult part, and it can take a long while to shed that skin so that it's just totally you, really you, not a character, not even an exaggeration of you. And that can take people a long while. Sometimes you never get that. If that's what you've done, you've sort of whittled down the amplified version. I think so, yeah, definitely, yeah. And you're just Jeff Innocent on stage now. Yeah, I think so, yeah. And do you manage to win over the people on the right? Because you know we're very stubborn politically now.

34:05Well, yeah, I think I do. I think, well, I don't know if it's about winning over, because I'm not looking to win people over. If I can, right, there's a thing about comedy. There's a play called Comedians. It's on YouTube. It's a comedy school, a night school. and all the ideas of the writer of the play go through the teacher of the school. And there's one scene where he's talking about, it's not just about making people laugh, it's pushing through the laughter to change the situation. And I thought, whoa, whoa, whoa. And I thought, now, okay, right now, I don't set out to change the situation.

34:42My agenda is to make people laugh. I'm not looking to change what they think about stuff. But you can change the situation. And I'm sure that I've changed the situation with some of the stuff that I talk about, certainly about having a gay son and the fun I have with that and my acceptance of that. I'm sure that that has an effect on people. See, another thing that a lot of people on the right do is stand up for the gay community, which I very much do. I've got some very close gay friends and I think the trans are hijacking that. I mean, that's another complete different conversation. But it's interesting because I've often thought to myself like we do, if my son was to say, Dad, I'm gay, how would I react?

35:29And I can categorically say, I'd be like, well, don't be a whore. Be happy. Don't hurt anybody. Good luck. Like, you be you. I was just going to say, don't ram it down people's throats. That old one, eh? It's hard for not to do when you're that way inclined. So when your son came out of the closet then, or did you suspect before he came out? Well, it was just no big deal. You know, he just seemed gay almost immediately, and that was it. It was never an issue. It was never something I was ever going to question or have a problem with. I bet he was delighted that he had a dad like you that he could approach.

36:01Well, I don't know, you know, because I don't know if he knows. I mean, I don't really want to take credit for it, because to me, everyone should be like that, but I don't know if he knows how lucky he is. We can't all be gay. No, but I think he, yeah, I think he, I don't know, maybe his friends say you're very lucky to have a deadlock but I talk about him in the act but what I mean Liam is that I don't have an agenda about changing people's ideas about the world but I think through seeing me it may have that an effect and I think it very well done so you know the working class obviously working class but but have sort of not unconventional but just modern modern views about the world I think Being a comedian, I mean, to me, it seems like there would just be...

36:46Can I just say before... Yeah, yeah, no, go on. I don't think that the world is split up into left and right-wing ideas. It's not as simple as that. It's much more nuanced than that. And there can be contradictions. So I don't think everyone is either anti-gay or gay or anti-black or black. I think there's a lot going on in between. And maybe that in-between bit is where I do my work on stage, I think, maybe. Yeah, that's probably bang on where you are because I've always gravitated towards your work and I've always thought, yeah, he's brilliant. And I get the jokes and I get where you're coming from.

37:20And even when you make fun of things that you'd essentially be making fun of how I view the world, I see the genius in it. And I respect and admire it and I don't have a problem with it. Really, I'm sort of more flexible than people think, but I think there's such a hard line now with the left and the right because things have got too extreme. I don't think there's much space for people in the middle anymore because you're going to get branded anyway. And I think sometimes you have got to do a little bit of that. Yeah, and I think I'll just do that because that's who I am and I think I own that little area comedically.

37:52But I also think that one of the reasons that my comedy has become more popular, apart from the fact that it's now been seen by a lot of people, is that I do think, and I try not to sound pretentious here, I do speak, I do think I speak on behalf of people that haven't got a comedian. You know, Chubby Brown, Jim Davidson, they've all got their audiences. Whoever they are, whether you like them or not, there's an audience for every kind of comedian. I see what you mean. And I think that I've been embraced by that sort of post-Black Lives Matter kind of, that, you know, I think that's who's embraced me.

38:30I was on a train once and some people told me, she went, oh, God, you know, you talk about, you know, you talk about our life. You're a mixed race girl with a white husband. And it was very much a multicultural group. And again, you talk about our life. No one's ever done that before. And I thought, oh, well, maybe that is what I do. What's the correct term now? I mean, I don't even know. You know, you said mixed race, like back in the day, it would be half cast. What is the correct term? I think mixed race is the acceptable term. I don't think half-caste was ever acceptable. Oh, was it not? Well, think about it politically.

39:03What it suggests is that you are... Those sort of terms like coloured, for example. Yeah, coloured or black. Well, coloured suggests that white is the norm and you're coloured. You're not the norm. You're something else. Why aren't you coloured? Do you understand? So we got rid of that term years ago. Black became a term. But I think... I was always more comfortable saying you're either black or white or brown. Yeah, brown's good. I like brown. My kids use brown. They don't use mixed race. But I think using someone's name is probably the best thing. Yeah, I'll drink to that. Because, you know, also, of course, you know, when you're talking about ethnicity, you know, colour is almost a meaningless thing in ethnicity, isn't it?

39:46You could be Polish or Irish. Well, it is neither here nor there. Or Russian or, yeah, yeah. There's such a big thing made about race these days, but they're bi-race baiters. I think there's a lot less racism than people think, but people like to stir the pot. They want racial tension. So I'm very big on like, no, no, no, black and white unite. Colour, we all need to be blind to colour. Like 100%. Sure, because, I mean, you've met my girlfriend. She's more cockney than me as far as I'm concerned. She's well chavvy. She is. And she's black. And she's sat right there. But she's, yeah, she's, I've never had a chavvy girlfriend before.

40:24You have now. When I talk about her on stage, I've started to a little bit. I have to say that she's black because when you say, oh, my girlfriend's so chavvy, you know, they're assuming it's a white person, aren't they? And this is exactly what we're talking about. So there is such a thing as a black chav? Yeah, and she's sitting right behind me now. She's introduced me to a whole new world, Primark, B &M, you know, a whole new world that I... Because she thinks I'm posh. Now, I never thought I was posh, but after being with her for a while, I think I am posh. You are posh. I think what it is is I think I'm educated.

40:58It's a working class, but I'm educated. It can make you seem posh. But I think that's because we're assuming that working class people can't be educated. We've got an old stereotype of what we're supposed to be like, and it's back to that thing I'm always trying to escape, that limited stereotype, that pie and mash. So getting into comedy at 41. Yeah, yeah. To me, that seems late. To me, that seems adventurous. To me, that seems brave. I mean, when you're young and you've got no inhibitions, you sort of throw caution to the wind, but 41 getting up, cracking jokes in front of a crowd. Well, I always fancied I could do it because I'd done some acting.

41:32I think always, couldn't keep my mouth shut, always trying to find the funny thing to say, always used humour as a child. There's a lot of power in humour. You can take over situations with humour. You realise that. You can undermine, you can subvert with humour. So I think it was always a bit like that. But you can also be disruptive. with humour. And so I spent a lot of my life getting into trouble. What did you use humour mostly for? Well, I think I used to take the piss all the time out of everybody. And I think that can be a sort of bullying as well. Psychological bullying. Yeah, I think it can be a bullying.

42:09It can be a protection device. It can be a way of changing situations. But it's also, I think I used to take the piss too, mate. When I look back, I think I was a bit of a wanker. You know, when I think back, I think, oh, better. And, you know, sometimes... And then if you got to the same way, you want to go back and say sorry to people. And I did see someone, you know, there was a broke, I remember, who was in our circle. So what happened is when I got into my 20s and stuff and I left home, you're living in bed seats in those days, you see the early 70s, and so I'd be, and I had a girlfriend in a bed seat.

42:42So I'm coming into contact with people, teachers and educated people, working class, but from up north or whatever. So similar backgrounds, but they've been to university. and I always had a feeling of inadequacy about that. I always knew I was bright, I always did reading, but I always thought I really wish I'd gone to university. It was a thing that was bugging me. So you did, didn't you? Well, I did in the end, which led to the comedy, really. So in the end, in the late 80s, I went to the University of East London, so I kept it cockney. So that was the stepping stone to comedy? Yeah, yeah, it was, because then what happened is I spent five years at university, So I did one degree and then I did a master's degree.

43:23I didn't want to leave university. I thought, oh, this is fantastic. Talking, debating, arguing, reading full time. And I thought, whoa, this is really where I want to be. And I did that. And while I was doing that, I was looking at the comedy circuit and went to a couple of comedy gigs. And I thought I could do that. You know, I've got mates that you go to a boxing match and they think, oh, fancy that. I fancy that. Or football, I fancy that. And I think with comedy, I thought, I reckon I can do that. What was the first gig like? The first gig was at the end of a workshop. I did a six-week comedy workshop in Stratford at the Tom Allen Centre, which is now African Church, obviously at the Theatre Royal Stratford.

44:03So the first gig was in front of people that you knew, really, friends and family. Is that worse? Is that more nerve-wracking? I don't know. It was just the first one. You don't really know what you're doing. You cobble an act together. But the point is, the reason I jumped into it, Before that time, I couldn't see how you could earn a living out of comedy. But by that time, the whole alternative comedy scene was kicking off. By the mid-'90s, that was all established. Jonglers, comedy clubs, they had a chain of comedy clubs. And because I had kids, I thought, I could see this might be worth working on, you know.

44:34And that's what I did, so I threw myself into it. Still working part-time in the menswear trade after college. And then got into it, and it just took off really quickly. but it took off quickly but it's taken me a while to not I think what it is is I developed a bit of a persona a bit of a character a bit of a cockley geezer character it was all just one one place there was no nuance or contrast and I earned a living out of it but it wasn't really me it took me a long while to shed that Did you always write your own stuff? Oh yeah yeah yeah I mean you're talking about Bobby coming on and I don't know Bobby's background but Bobby comes from a completely different comedy scene what we would call the mainstream scene cruises, northern working men's clubs, hotels, whereas I really come from what we call the alternative company of scene, which kicked off in the late 80s with people like Alexis Sowell, which was all about writing your own stuff.

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46:14They're waiting for you. The Crispy Chicken Crunchwrap Slider, a brand new classic, is back. Only at Taco Bell. Alexi Sauer, remember him? He was part of the Young Ones, Ben Elton. That's right, yeah. All that love. Alexi Sauer was a pioneer in that respect. And that's about you must write your own stuff, because that's why you're doing it, to write your own stuff, because you've got things you want to talk about. Yeah, it must be very rewarding to write your own material, sort of after fun then put it out there then watch it back and think that was all me well when you first write jokes you think wow I can write a joke like a proper comedian yeah because you can't you think that's like possibly as good as a proper comedian and one of the jokes one of the first jokes I wrote which is actually all my stuff was crime related as well one of the jokes I wrote was yeah I I had to go to court the other day got community service 200 hours so I took a gram of speed and got it out of way in an afternoon That was one of my early jokes.

47:08It was all like that. It was all crime type crime and drugs and all of that. So it wasn't really me. It was part of me. It wasn't really me. That's what it was. But it worked. It worked for a while. I was earning a living with it. I'm still doing one or two of those jokes now, I think. But now because I've got the other side of me as well, I'm more rounded and more developed, I think. Was there any fear of causing offence? Well, for me causing offence. Yeah, did you ever think, I don't want to offend anybody? Well, I don't, I don't, yeah, I am like that anyway. You know, I don't want, I wouldn't set out to offend unless it was something that's a target, you know.

47:41I mean, I had a joke recently that someone pulled me up over and I took it off because I thought, no, you're right. I've got this, so I'm very liberal and sensitive and woke me. I mean, I'm all over that. I mean, political correctness and that, I'm all over that stuff. And to a fault, really. It's good that you own that as well. Yeah, yeah. I mean, so, for example, I had this joke recently about rescue dogs. Now, I've had this joke for ages. Here's the joke. You know, if you've got a dog, yeah, and you go over the park and you're part of the dog community, you always know the rescue dog owners, didn't you?

48:15Because they keep fucking going on about it, don't they? Oh, we rescued him. We rescued him. He's ADHD. He's ADHD. He was terribly abused. And I feel like saying, look, you didn't really rescue him, did you? Not in my book. You didn't break into a scrap metal yard in the dead of night and unleash a rabid Doberman into the world. You didn't go and live on a gypsy camp for months and learn their ways and smuggle out any endangered dogs in a shindler's list kind of way. You didn't walk into a pet shop with a gun and go, put all the puppies in a fucking bag now, you slags. I just went down to Battersea and went, can I have that one, please?

48:49Not a fucking rescue, is it? So I've been running with that joke for a while. I haven't done it for a while, but I stuck it in the hour show when I was on tour because it was a collection of everything that I'd done. And I wasn't uneasy about that gypsy part of it. because it suggests that gypsies are cruel to animals. It has that undertone, suggesting. But what it is, it comes from when I was growing up and you'd go past a big traveller's site, you'd always get some mutant dogs. When the dogs were running free and feral on the site, so you'd get a few mutant dogs, like half ground, half Jack Russell, all fucked up weird dogs.

49:25So that's what that was about. But I was never comfortable with that. I always thought, oh, it's suggesting something. and recently a young woman got it onto me on Instagram and said, Jeff, I love you, but, you know, I'm from a traveller background. We keep dogs and horses. My dad keeps horses. We look after them. They're in beautiful condition. And that joke, and I thought, you know what? You're fucking right. And I've always thought that, and I took it down. So I'm very sensitive about that. Very conscious of your content. Yeah, yeah, and I don't set out to offend. I mean, I might have targets, you know.

49:59I mean, I had a joke about... It must make your job harder if there's things that you can't go near. No, not at all, because I trust myself. I trust my politics and I trust myself to not be like that. So what do you target? You said you've got targets. Well, I had a joke, for example, about Israel. And some years ago, I had this joke about offsetting. I don't know if you know, there used to be a thing called offsetting. It's part of environmentalism where if you take a plane ride and you create emissions, when you come back, you can offset that by buying a few trees or adopting a few African war orphans.

50:35It's a sort of liberal sort of conscience thing, you know. Yeah. Okay, it's called offsetting, right? So I thought, oh, so I had this joke about buying a pair of Caterpillar boots because I was going through an environmental phase and I thought it looked good for my environmental look. But then I found out that Caterpillar are the same company that make the bulldozers that the Israeli government used to clear Palestinian villages. And I thought, I can't be ethical and be involved in ethnic cleansing, so I need an offset. And I thought, I know, wear the boots, but every time I meet someone from Israel, give them a bit of a kick in, right?

51:09Now, it was a half-baked joke. It wasn't something I went with, but I liked the idea, which probably wasn't finished properly, but I went on the telly and did it, and it ended up being on YouTube. In my early days, I didn't think it was a great joke, But more recently, a woman got in touch with me and said, can't you just make it, you'll give the Israeli army a kick in or Netanyahu a kick in? I thought, yeah, you're probably right. But I was in Bahrain, dying in a gig. I was in Bahrain. I thought it was an expat gig. He was actually supporting an Arab comedian. So it was an Arab audience. And I was doing all my stuff about the East End, of course, completely.

51:48And then I got to the bit about the offsetting and giving the Israelis a kick in, because it was in my set, it's all right, and I did it. They stood up and cheered and clapped. So that wasn't my intention, but it got me out of a sticky gig. So, yeah, so on one hand, I'm now a hero with these Bahrainians for doing a joke about, you know. Whereas on the other hand, I've got this Jewish woman on the online gang. Do you have to do that joke? It sounds a bit dodgy. So it is tricky, but what I do, Liam, is I trust. I'm an old bloke now. I've been around. I trust, I don't set out to make a political point.

52:24I just trust that my politics are going to be sound and who I am. But I don't always get it right, you know, sometimes. You don't always get it right. You said about it was nearly a sticky situation. I mean, I know every comedian I'm either friends with or I've interviewed, there's always been that one sticky situation where it's erupted during a gig. You can't be an exception to that. I mean, I've seen a couple of them up the creek in Greenwich or Deptford on the borders. because that can be a place where that happens. I've been on stage where it was Charlie. Once audiences started taking Charlie, that changed everything, didn't it, in the late 90s, early 2000s.

53:02I mean, for people that don't remember or weren't part of that scene, the shift from when people were taking the bumblebees to putting stuff up their nose, it went from free love to extreme violence like that. It did. I remember that. And so people would just be arguing because of that, and it kicked off while I was on stage and the whole audience just seemed to be it just seemed like the whole audience was fighting and we just had to abandon the gig so we had a couple of those but not really that much so it was so bad you actually had to stop the gig I had to stop the whole show I had to be stopped the whole place everyone had to leave did you still get paid?

53:36yeah I did yeah yeah oh yeah I always make sure otherwise we don't want any more aggravation do we? the last thing you want is Jeff putting his fucking West Ham top on doing a bit of artwork work on the ICF flyer. And what pressures come with being a comedian? Because to me, to me, it seems like, to me, it seems like it's a lot of pressure. You've always got to be funny. And I bet when you go out, people expect you to be the entertainment. I don't know. I don't know if there is, I don't really feel any pressure. I think. You're quite a laid back geezer, isn't you? Yeah. But I also, I also think I've been doing it for a long while now.

54:11So I know what I'm doing. And I think once you know what you're doing, it's a lot easier. When you first start, it's not working out. You don't know if it's you, you don't know if it's the audience, and you're finding your way. But now I know if it's not very good, it'll be me, or if it's them. So, yeah, there's no pressure. There's no – I suppose the only pressure now is that now that I've got famous, everyone's seen everything I do. I've got to write a whole new show for touring. But that's the first time I've ever come under that. It's not a bad pressure to have, a bit of artistic pressure.

54:43It'll keep your mind very active, won't it? And if you don't use it, you lose it. Yeah, yeah. That's for sure. Even my tender age of 45, if I don't use my brain to create something and I let myself go numb for a while, it takes me a while to jumpstart my brain again. Yeah, yeah. But talking about offending people, no, no, actually, what am I saying? I love offending people. I know, but I think when you're – I've never been a young comedian because I started when I was 41. I've had a young attitude, and quite a lot of the time when you're a comedian, you want to be edgy, you want to be confrontational.

55:13So you write stuff just to be confrontational. It might not be necessarily something you totally believe in, but you know, that will get a good effect. I think comedy was a bit like that for a while. But I did get attacked on stage, funnily enough, by these young women who thought I was being racist. Because here's the other thing about my stuff. Like we said earlier, it can be slightly interpreted. I mean, one of my big jokes, the first one that went viral, is, yeah, not easy when you look like me. If you have a black wife, there's certain things you can't do. that you might take for granted.

55:45I couldn't chase her down the street. That was a massive joke for me that went viral. But I'm pretty sure there will be people who completely interpret that in a completely different way, who enjoy what they think is the racism of that. Oh, yeah, that's right, mate. So that's one of those slightly ambiguous, but that's not my intention. But Davina McCall, she said, think about Jeff Anderson, he looks like he's going to go to a dangerous place, but always has a happy ending. And I thought, oh, I do that, do I? I saw that. So I think that's what I've ended up doing. But I've got older now and I'm more rounded with my comedy.

56:20I think that's one of the reasons why I've become more popular, not just the content hitting in with the times, but I think I'm just a nicer, better comedian now. What makes a good comedian? Well, I teach or have in the past for a few years run comedy courses and comedy workshops. But I think you, I know it sounds like a cliche, but I think having funny bones to begin with, it's pretty, you know, most people I know are good comedians of just funny people. Or like I said, have been funny in their life, all their life. I haven't just come to it and thought, I fancy doing comedy. They've got that knack of getting something on the hook.

57:00Yeah, but I think it's more of a curse. That's what you're like. So you've found a job to fit your personality. Does that make sense? It does make sense. Being a comedian's a curse. I suppose, like, if you're that guy and you're at a funeral and you can't hurt yourself but crack a joke at the most inappropriate time. And just being disruptive, like I said, by using humour all the time as part of your personality. And actually, as soon as I became a comedian, I stopped being like that in life. Because, oh, here I am. Here's a place where they're going to pay me to be like this. And what's it been like shooting into fame so late in life?

57:36Because I'm sure if the internet was about when you first started. Maybe, maybe. Because, well, I mean, I've always been an older comedian, so I wasn't really that TV friendly. I wasn't, you know, I didn't do a lot of TV. I wasn't someone they were looking for, working class, a bit edgy, talking about cocaine and prison and stuff. Marxism. Marxism. But I don't think that was TV friendly as such. So the internet has helped me because there's no gatekeepers. so you have a direct relationship between Norcom and in the audience. Well, that being approached on the street. Yeah, that's been the only difference.

58:11In a restaurant and you're trying to relax. That has taken some getting used to because that happens suddenly. See, I think, I imagine if you're on TV, say you're in EastEnders for six months, right, you gradually get recognised. On the internet, one night millions of people would be watching your clip and it's on their phone, it's in their house, it's in their family, they're passing it on to their family. So almost overnight, as soon as I left the house, he didn't even have to leave the house. Neighbours were knocking on door. That is you, isn't it? That is you. I said it was you. Can I have a selfie?

58:42I even had my son's friends going in the kitchen. I'm standing in Crocs and boxer shorts, you know. It's you, isn't it? It's you. So even in your own house, delivery drivers, it's shocking. It's shocking. It's almost like, do you think, what, has everyone seen my clips? Train station, on the train. I think I was doing about six selfies a day at one time. Now, that's all quite manageable, though, and I'm not complaining about it, but it does make you think, what's it like to be Peter Kay or Mickey Flanagan, where you probably can't go anywhere unless you're in disguise. So it's all manageable. It's all manageable, and I think it's love and affection.

59:18It's people coming up to tell you how much they love you. And I've only ever seen that with Jo Brand before. When I worked with Jo Brand, I thought, my God, what's going on here? These people love her. Yeah, what big names have you worked with? Well, everyone. I mean... And who were your favourites? Who were your least favourites? Oh, dear. I mean, I like Stuart Lee. This is your moment now. I like Stuart Lee. But no, I mean, all the people that are famous are people that weren't famous at one time, and I knew them then. So it's not like you're working with famous people. But when I was younger, Jasper Carrer, I remember supporting Jasper Carrer.

59:51He was famous, what was that, in the 90s, the 80s probably. Jasper Carrer. I forgot what that was. You know, I recently supported John Bishop. Do you know John Bishop? Scouser. Yeah, he said to me, I can't have you supporting me anymore, Geoff. You're too good. So he couldn't. He wouldn't give me any more work. He'll be supporting you. Yeah, yeah. What about Kenny Everett back in the day? Well, he was not really a stand-up comedian, but I do as Mario's work, the way he uses technology on the radio was groundbreaking. Cupid's stunt. Wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. And his characters were great, weren't they?

1:00:21I know this is a completely, it's not comedy related, but do you remember delirious Eddie Murphy? I do, yeah. He was 20 years of age or something like that. He was, yeah. I mean... It was a phenomena. Wow! It's interesting you say about his age because I think there's a fearlessness with age which I've lost. But the intelligence that he had at that age, like how are you so worldly wise and how can you pull all those characters off and the nuance? That's his genius. That was his genius, wasn't it? Phenomenal, wasn't it? Definitely. Very, yeah. What about Richard Pryor? Oh, yeah. I mean, that routine he's got about the mafia is just so incredible.

1:00:56I don't know if you know that one. If you know it off by heart. No, no, I wouldn't do it justice. But he's got this thing he does where he talks about growing up and being in a gambling house or something. It's all run by the mob. And he's doing errands for them and stuff like that. I think he tries to rob it with his mates or something. It's a story about them all laughing at him. But he does a thing that I've never seen before. It's a simple thing where he uses the microphone stand. He puts his arm around it and he's talking. So the microphone stand is here and he's like, hey, hey, come here, come here.

1:01:29Such a clever, it's one of my favourite Richard Pryor pieces. But, oh, Richard Pryor. Richard Pryor was very progressive as well. He was doing things that hadn't been done before. And you've got to go way back to watch Richard Pryor live on stage. It's way before Seen or We Were Here No Evil, way before Stir Crazy. Definitely, definitely. I do love those films though. Oh, same. Stir Crazy. Stir Crazy is the one. What a combination. Those two are. Unbelievable. My favourite duo ever. Yeah, yeah, that's a great one. I bet you weren't a fan of Bernard Manning. Well, I am a fan of him up to a point.

1:02:02I mean, I'm a fan of him as a phenomena, as a joke machine. He's like a monster on stage. A joke machine. That's exactly what it was. All them old talkers just rattle them off. His way that he delivered a joke, his whole persona, and then you just go and spoil it. You think, why do you? Oh, it's all going so well, and then you have to get nasty. you know, and but yeah, no, up to a point, a fan of his but the thing is stand-up comedy is so well known, everyone knows about stand-up comedy, we all grew up with stand-up comedy, particularly on TV in the 60s and 70s, there was loads of stand-up comedy, so I think people even before I did comedy, you know how it works you know the rhythms of it, you know what a joke is, and I think that's very much part of British popular culture, that stand-up comedy.

1:02:48I miss stand-up comedy. I love it. I can watch, but I just admire the way people tick, put things together, connect the dots. They sort of tee you up. You don't even realise you're being teed up and then the timing, the execution of the joke. I just admire the trade. Yeah, that's a lovely feeling that dropping, dropping it, holding onto it. Yeah. Or setting it up and they're laughing and you think you don't even know what's coming. There's a real glee, a real joy as a performer when you're doing that to an audience, when you're dropping it and you're holding onto it and waiting. to the last possible moment.

1:03:21And yeah, that's the rule. It's a lovely, lovely performing, you know. It's a lovely thing. And you're 69 or 70 now? I was 70 in February. And you still love it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I love it more, really, because I know how to do it more. So I'm more in control of it. So there's more possibilities for me in it. I was going to say to you, as the woke mind virus killed comedy, but by your own admission, you are woke. So it's probably made comedy for you, isn't it? Well, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, obviously there are excesses that are ridiculous, and I think that's what people often talk about when they moan about wokeism, the excessive ridiculousness.

1:03:57But generally, I think, just like political correctness, I just think it's showing respect for people. That's all. The way of showing respect for people that are not the norm necessarily, and I haven't got a problem with that. And I'm a big supporter of the underdog anyway, and minorities, just like that, I'd always back them up. how important is laughter in the world? Your job is to make people laugh. You must want to do that for a reason. Have you ever thought about that? Why do I want to make someone laugh? It's a beautiful thing to do. I mean, I do, excuse me, yeah, I don't know. I think it's an uncontrollable desire to make people laugh.

1:04:34I think that's how I communicate. I think that's how I have conversations. so but I will say one thing I because I'm partially deaf sometimes when I I haven't got my hearing aids or I've forgotten them or they're broken and I've done gigs without them you can't hear the laughter you go away with an empty feeling so you're still having a successful gig but you don't know it but you don't know it or you don't feel it you don't feel it and it's completely empty and horrible and you think wow I'd never and it's only been that happened I thought wow I really you want that laughter that you want to hear it, it's not good enough just to know that they're laughing.

1:05:12That's the dopamine. Yeah, yeah. How did you lose your hearing? Were you born with it or was it because of the speakers? For DJing, yeah, yeah. DJing. Because I used to play on big reggae sound systems, so you know what they're like, the big speakers in the 70s. And when I went to have my ears tested, the woman said to me, have you ever listened to any loud music for any length of time? And I was laughing. I thought, yeah, I have, and I still am. It's kind of my thing. Yeah. But I think it's, I think all of my decisions, I've got loads of wear and tear, but I always, somehow, I've got a glamorous take on them.

1:05:42So I've got complex spinal injuries, which I always say is down to doing martial arts. I've got the definition where I say it's down to DJing. But in a way, years ago, that would be like working in a factory or working on a building site. So the same wear and tear injuries, but somehow they seem more glamorous. It's been nice to talk about that. And has your martial arts come in handy during your career? It's funny you should say that. It's Krav Magra, isn't it? Yeah, well, yeah, yeah. it's funny you should say that because um what i like about uh martial arts is that it organizes your temper you know you're not just in a temper and being bad and wild you you're organizing yourself and funnily enough i did get attacked on stage and uh and i did do did put a little bit of a grab on the person a little bit of a fender was it caught on camera it was and then the people at at the club and said, oh, can we put this out online?

1:06:33It'd be really great. But the thing is, they were women. I got attacked on stage by these women who were drunk who thought I was being racist. Again, my comedy sometimes interpreted in different ways. And they got kicked out and they came back and then they rushed to the stage. Were they white women or black women? White women and one Asian woman. So a middle class, young student, middle class, drunk, who weren't waiting for me to get to the end of my stuff. So, you know, I can walk on stage and go, yeah, I look racist That would be enough For people They go Oh he's being racist It can be like that It can be literal Oh I know I mean It can be literal I've not Well about a year ago I signed back up to X And I mean The passive aggression on there People decide What you mean It's like No I didn't mean that Yes you did Okay Sure I'll tell you what I'll say it You decide what I mean Sure So but I don't get much Of that misinterpretation It was just there Oh I had a little I had a little Oh God I don't know This is I'm getting a bit old now but I had a little tussle with a bouncer where it came in handy as well.

1:07:34Basically, I had a little bit of a thing with a bouncer. We had a little bit of a tussle, and I was putting some moves on him. But as I was doing it, I thought, whoa, I'm in slow motion. What's wrong with me? And I thought, no, don't get involved in it. You must be getting too old. Lost that snap. Yeah. Lost that. And I think you get old. And I wasn't training at the time. You've got to be training all the time. You're doing boxing and martial arts. You're nigh to get out of trouble, but it's always good if you're training at all times, isn't it? so you're fit and strong and you can put your techniques into action.

1:08:04Yeah, use it or lose it. But I was a bit, I thought, Jesus Christ, I'm doing what I want to do, but it's about half the speed I thought I would be doing. Time to get back to the jokes. Well, after that, I thought you'd forget. But what happened is I had this little thing and I got the better of him. Now, I've got to say, he obviously wasn't their best bouncer, but he's on the radio going, code red, code red. All the other bouncers came running and it was me, you know, and he looked and thought, what, what? They said, what is it? It's just this old bloke. But after that, I thought, no, I don't.

1:08:36Just got to leave that sort of thing. And are you always as calm or is there a confrontational side of you? Oh, totally. Oh, yeah, yeah. And that's something I'm trying to curb. You ain't curbed it by now. Well, here's an example. I mean, if I go to my local train station and press the button for the lift, which is about the first thing I'm going to do when I leave the house, someone else comes along and presses that button well i've just pressed i have to have a word with that person i can't let it go no i can't let it go i mean i got banned from from a gym recently i can't i don't want to say the name but i got banned what did you do from the gym well i moved someone from a piece of equipment because he was on the phone and i wanted to get on there and he was on the phone for too long i thought no no so i just swiped his stuff away i went get off and it turned into a massive thing.

1:09:23He started screaming. All the people were running. So no, I'm not. I am calm, but I've got this little, that thing. An Aggie element. It's a little, I like to kick off. And of course, now that I'm a bit well-known, I can't kick off. So I've got this battle now between wanting to kick off. But they're not, I mean, I am concerned with major things in life, human trafficking, global warming and all that. But this, I'm embarrassed to say that I can get drawn in to very small things. And I think that might be the old Cockney jeans kicking in. You've tried to battle the inner you your whole life. It's exactly that, the inner me.

1:10:03It's in there. And, yeah, so I'm always like that. And I have really tried, you know, to stop being like that. Just, you know, for my own safety, I'm getting old now. You know, it shouldn't be, but I can't help it. It's not necessarily anger. It's a bit probably like, well, hold on. No, no, no. So press the lift. Sorry, mate, mate, why have you just pressed that lift? What do you think I'm doing standing there? Do you think I'll just come and stand here? That's what I do. Hang about by lifts. That's what I do. So it's the logic of the situation I'm after. You need to read a book called How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

1:10:42Too late. It's too late for me. But I would love to be able to curb that about my personality, actually. It's like road rage. It's because I've got this joke, I do this joke about I own a pink pair of Crocs. I own it and people are only wearing it when I drive because I suffer from road rage and I figure I'm never going to get out of the fucking car wearing a pair of pink Crocs. So I need to have a pink Crocs for every situation, I think. Yeah. But that's definitely that old, that's that, you know, that... That's the dog in you. That background. Yeah, it is that. That's the fight in you. Yeah.

1:11:14People shaking, don't want people shaking liberties, you know, that kind of attitude. I've still got that. FX's American Horror Story returns for an unrivaled 13th installment. With the iconic horrors you love to fear and an all-star cast reprising fan-favorite roles. Light your candles, draw your pentagrams, and prepare for a supreme surprise. FX's American Horror Story 13. Now streaming on Hulu.

1:11:49You fell in love at first crunch, and now the crispy chicken crunch wrap slider is back at Taco Bell. But with a twist, it's crispy all-white meat chicken nuggets inside a slider-sized crunch wrap. But now you can enjoy them with the kick of Hidden Valley Diablo Ranch. Or try the tortilla chip-coated nuggets on their own. They're waiting for you. The crispy chicken crunch wrap slider, a brand-new classic, is back. Only at Taco Bell. I think that's a mouth. I think it's quite healthy to have that. Yeah, maybe. Maybe pressing the button on the lift is a bit strong, but... Yeah, yeah, yeah, but...

1:12:21So you are. Yeah, but, I mean, no, no, hold on a minute, Liam. You're not backing me up here, so... No, fuck them. If he ever does that again, call me and we'll both deal with him. Here's the lift. Right there, yeah? I've pressed it. Someone will come and... I mean, no, no, no, no. In fact, I let it go the other day. Someone did it the other day. And I let it go partly because it was a black woman and I thought this could look more confrontational than it really is. This could be interpreted as something else. So I'm going to have to let it go. But partly because I thought, I've got to start letting this stuff go.

1:12:52It killed me. I couldn't even sleep. I wanted to go and find her. I let it go. She pressed the lift. She got in. It just, I couldn't live with it all day. I'm thinking, oh, that woman and the lift. I'm trying to think, is that white privilege or black privilege? Yeah, a bit of both. Black and white privilege. So no, no, I'm not. I'm calm. Calm at work. Calm, calm. Most of the time I'm calm. But I do have my little moment. It sounds like you need the stage to balance you out. Yeah, I think you're right. I think a lot of people do. I think a lot of performers do that anyway, don't they? Yeah. Well, I'll be following your journey.

1:13:22Before I ask you the final question, which is actually sort of down to you, where can people find you? What are your platforms? YouTube? Well, Instagram is very big. I mean, the hour special, as they call it in comedy, which is special is the term we use for a recorded version of your show. That's on YouTube. And it's called Smart Casual. It's an hour show. It's the touring show that we filmed at Theatre Royal Stratford. I've seen it. Okay. Very good. So that's sort of what I'm about comedically is all on there. The gypsy dog joke's still in it, I'm afraid. But, you know. But apart from that, Instagram is the big platform.

1:14:04We'll put your Instagram and YouTube links in this. Thank you. So the final question is, a man that's lived a very interesting life, spent 70 years nearly on the planet, what would your final message to the masses be? I was going to say something that's really silly, you know. Now is a chance for me to be really profound now and say something that could influence people. And I find myself, you know, I'm never lost for words. Just don't fucking promote Marxism on my show. Yeah, I think keep it left wing, yeah. Keep it trotskies. Don't worry about immigrants. That's not the issue, yeah. It's economy that's the issue.

1:14:42Yeah, let's go right back on everything now, yeah. I don't know, just be nice, you know. Be kind is a decent sign-off, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. I try and be nice all the time. It's not always easy to be nice though, is it? But I haven't always been nice. And it's the thing that I've, I think I've got nicer as an older person. I was a bit of a wanker when I was younger. But, and I struggle not to be a wanker. So don't be a wanker. Maybe that's it. We're going to end it on that. But, folks, I'm going to put Jeff's links in the description. I hope this sends the right message out that you can completely disagree politically, have a conversation, get on, connect, have a bond, maybe build a friendship, and maybe sort of bridge that gap.

1:15:28But I totally condemn Marxism, and I'm definitely on the right-hand side of the political fence, just to be absolutely clear. But I do love Jeff and appreciate what he does. Like and subscribe to the channel. there'll be plenty more of this where it came from follow jeff and sir i love you man and you love you thanks inviting me really honored man thanks a lot thank you brother thank you

1:15:55fx's american horror story returns for an unrivaled 13th installment with the iconic horrors you love to fear and an all-star cast reprising fan favorite roles Light your candles, draw your pentagrams, and prepare for a supreme surprise. FX's American Horror Story 13. Now streaming on Hulu. Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile with your summer price forecast. Now, unfortunately, we're seeing rising costs across the country with possibility that big wireless hates you 100%. Now, over here at Mint Mobile, we're seeing sunny skies and dropping prices. Every plan to just$15 a month. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch.

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