World's DEADLIEST Prison - Extreme Violence To Survive: Billy Moore

39:21Back then? Yeah. Even now I still chase a buzz. Even if it's something that makes me feel slightly uncomfortable, it's a buzz. Yeah. Weird to explain. Yeah, we've got a void here that we need to fill. There's a vacuum, isn't there? For me, it's like filling it with other things, like shopping. Consumerism, fighting, running, extreme exercise. Yeah, sorry to put you off. I relate to a lot of what you're saying. That was the gym. It's an obsession. It's a healthy obsession for me anyway. Yeah. Yeah, and that's how it was. And, you know, gets off this plane in Bangkok, three months, this is what's going to happen.

39:57It never turned out like that, to be fair. What was your first impression of Bangkok when you got there? Fucking mad old place. The first impression was like, as soon as that door opened, the heat hit me. And it was November, and it was like, I'm talking, it was snowing when I left. It smoged Bangkok, innit? Yeah, it was snowing when I left, this immense heat. I remember getting into a taxi and we had these wasabi peas that the taxi driver gives us I've never had wasabi peas that's what they are that was you know never even been to a McDonald's I've never experienced good things I've got a you know we had nothing you know so we was used to it you know took a lot of drugs went to a lot of prisons fucked up my life made a hell of a lot of mistakes and now I'm in this new world you know and it's exciting it's different you know and I'm trying to relive lost dreams and you know watching this Muay Thai boxing and these these bars bars areas and I thought I'll get in the ring and I'll have a little scrappy don't get in the ring with any of these sides they'll fucking break your ribs in two rounds because it's amazing that there's rings like social event full of rings and like anyone can just put their hand up and get in there and find the local Thai boxer and that was neat so I put a pair of shorts on got in got my ribs broke still gravitated to the violence yeah still gravitated to the violence and that same shout you know repeat the same mistake but expect different results so I got in again six weeks later and I learnt a lesson from the first time and I enjoyed it you know it was like the it was just like reliving all of them lost years learning a new skill you know adapting pretty well to their you know their Muay Thai skills So you learnt Muay Thai as well while you was over there Yeah yeah so I fought I fought oh I'd love to fight So you was elbows knees everything I learnt I learnt it was an eight fold martial art Yeah you know and I read the whole story about Nike and Tom and about the Burmese war and about how the Burmese said the old Ties that were, you know, combatants were blessed in every limb with venom because they could fight like there was no tomorrow.

41:55You know, and I remember like reading about like the best of the best, fought the best of the best Krati and this and they never lasted more than a round with these Muay Thai fighters and I thought wow, these are warriors. You know, I want a piece of this and I'd get in and I'd get fucking leaded and I enjoyed it you know learnt how to put a bottle and get a callus on the shins you know and so yeah and it wasn't like going to a camp it was just getting in this is it you get kicked you know to defend yourself and all the Tais couldn't speak English I couldn't speak Thai and it was like a game of charades and it was just showing me and I was like I can't just delve right into this world and me mate we've got to go back I'm like nah mate I'm staying here he said the three months are up I'm like they may be for you but I'm fucking staying I fucking love this I've got nothing to go back to you know so okay and that's when I started trying to gain employment yeah you've got to make a living now yeah so you know I had no money left so I started fighting in the ring overnight for tips and walking around with this box with these ties then I thought I've got to I've got to get a job as a teacher because you're there in the bars oh you can get a job teaching English I can teach English so I bought a bachelor's degree online sorry about that in a Physical education, because I thought if they ask me a little bit about physical education, I can probably be in a gym all my life, you know what I mean?

43:18And I did do a TEFL online as well, so I paid for that. So I had a teaching English as a foreign language course, so I had a proper certificate for that. But then I kind of threw a bevy on with the bachelor's that was a blag. Went into this school, private school, and was given a job immediately. had a shirt on skin it Thai it was bizarre so so far it's going quite well yeah yeah so far given this job as a teacher I put in my first lesson the next day with 50 Thai students no lesson planning and they're all I've walked in I'm terrified good morning teacher how are you today what am I going to teach them what I mean I know it's just like vocabulary it's not academic skills that we've got to provide so it was just how are you You know, it didn't really last long because a few months, they were a bit concerned with the accent because they were saying they sound like little scouts, you know what I mean?

44:15They actually thought I was a foreigner, to be honest. Thai scouts. Yeah, because they like them to speak with an American swank or very English. Yeah, yeah. And I wasn't really that good, so I didn't really provide a good service. But then an opportunity to work with Sylvester Stallone will come up. I got a phone call, actually. Yeah, how does that even happen? I was in the gym and as a guy he's one of us he's on he's on X he was in Coronation Street Matt Marsden lovely fella I was in the gym in Chiang Mai the Royal Oak Hotel I remember it well he was in there on the machine I was just in there training and I thought he looks like a fighter I recognised him somewhere because there's posters all over the Chiang Mai city town city centre these up and coming fights with foreigners and Thais and I thought he's a fighter so I asked him and he went Roman actor you know I was on Coronation Street I'm here for this movie called Rambo 4 I was like fucking hell Stallone here he went yeah I said have you met him he said of course I'm working with him I thought that must be exciting you know I've always loved Rocky and Rambo you know the 80s acting heroes and a couple of days later this casting crew came in looking for all non-size you know all the westerners and asked me for my name took a photograph left them a number an email and then a couple of days after that I get a phone call I thought oh this is because I told everyone I couldn't contain myself I'm in the bars selling everyone yeah I'm gonna the casting crew come in so I thought someone was winding me up they went to some American bed hey Billy boy would you like to come in we need you to play Sylvester Stallone stand in and I was like who's this like no no it's blah blah blah can we meet you at the Royal Oakhead Hotel at 5am tomorrow morning I was like, this has got to be a joke, this.

46:06But I thought, I'll go anyway. And I went, and there was a little mini bush, and I was directed into this bush, and I'm on the bush with these other people I didn't even know. They were all other. They'd all been casted for different roles. And I was like, Sylvester Stone, what does that mean? And the next thing, I'm on set with him, and he's walked in. So I'm on this set called Europe One, so I've got to be close to him. I was basically his shadow so when he he was doing I had to do first like the bow and arrow so the camera it wasn't like a fucking stuntman I don't know with him rolling down I was getting blown up I was just like I'd stand there and the camera had set up they'd get all the shadow and all the lighting right and then he'd step in so did you get to know Stallone properly?

46:53yeah yeah sure I was in his trailer with him and everything and he came to watch a fight what's he like mould intimidating? no at first right he was a presence you know he's there Sylvester Stallone yeah he's fucking oh wow and everyone's it's the one it is because I was dead I'm amazing deadly you took a show into that yeah I was just dead like a kid like a big kid because I still hadn't matured I was still like that and he was going now we need subtitles with this this fella you know what I mean he was only really saying and I was working with him for a few months enjoyed it you know met a lot of people on set all mostly from America and yeah I enjoyed that experience and then that ended it came to it came to fruition they all went back you know I went back to boxing in the ring you know I'd lost the job as a teacher because obviously I couldn't really teach you know you were two scouts two scouts now then that's what they were coming I go now then what's happening lad she said but what kind of language is this you know you can understand me they'll understand everyone anyone anywhere in the world We can't speak like that.

48:03They sound like little Harry Enfields. So I just started to fight a little bit more. I wasn't earning much. And then I met this girl who couldn't speak a word in English and the relationship was based on a dictionary. And I fell in love with a Thai girl. The biggest mistake you could make. When you say Thai girl, was she a go-go girl? No, no. Legit? Yeah, she was legit. She was a beautician. I thought, what's going on here? Very polite. So I kind of quickly fell in love. And for me, you know, I didn't deal with, like, relationships. The vulnerability. Yeah, like, you know, like I said, she could punch me in all day long.

48:44I could take the pain and then feelings were okay. But then, like, the emotional, like, upheaval and the vulnerability was, I was comfortable with anger. Yeah. There's a thin line between anger and vulnerability. I'd rather show you I was angry, but I couldn't show this girl I was angry because it's not very attractive. you know, for Ian Simitant. When you were in love, you feel wide open, didn't you? I was wide open, I was roaring. The worst thing about it, like, she couldn't speak English and I found out, like, she was going away at the weekends and turning her phone off. Why is she doing that?

49:16I'm turning into a stalker now, very suspicious, paranoid, is she with someone else? In the end, I did find out that she was with someone else and it broke my heart. I'm not going to lie, I was in bits. I was like, hell yeah, I'm trying to tell her how I felt when I was reading the 60. And she's just looking at me like I'm mad. I'm trying to explain how I feel here. She went, I love you. Same, same him. I was like, what? I said, where are you coming from, girl? It's me and you, not me, you and him. That's not a relationship. You know, I don't know what it's like over here. And she was like just confused.

49:47Couldn't understand why I couldn't accept it. I said, obviously you don't. And she just, you know, she left. And, you know, I was left there broken hearted, sobbing. and the answer to that for me was to go and pick up because I was in so much pain mentally, emotionally You opted for the self-destruct button? Yeah, a couple of years clean by the way but ran a bend but then I'm sat at this bar and I'm looking at this my go-to drink was brandy I don't know why but it was easier to drink brandy and coke but they didn't have any it was whiskey and I thought give us a whiskey and I remember looking at it and just watching the ice melt but staring at it for ages knowing exactly what that would do to me right I mean I'm talking like there was a fight going on when obviously you're lost but it was there was the fuck it's kicking in I'd hear it just fuck it you'll be okay just this once and it was like someone else was talking to me but in my own voice don't go ahead just have it go ahead you'll be alright and I remember just necking it the relief I felt it was like someone had just fucking turned off a kettle because the steam in my head was literally everything went silent you know I could feel it burning down you know just going right into my gully pines gone yeah it was like wow and then I picked up the phone to some lad from England who knew it relapsed and then I said can you get me any Charlie or anything no I didn't want to go to the gear the progression was quite slow initially I was kind of like I'm going to be manageable all this I'm not going to become a heroin addict again I'll just have a drink maybe a little bit of cocaine be a bit sociable gonna keep it conservative yeah see if I can manage that and he's went I'll come and meet you so he's turned up on this little scooter I've had a little higher scooter and we're just going down to this this shui in Chiang Mai and this lady boy standing there pull over but can you get us any coke oh yeah bah yeah bah what the fuck's that so she's jumped on the back of his bike and I followed him to this in the middle of nowhere by the way right this apartment we've gone in upstairs there's like six sides sat on the floor they're all playing cards no one looked at us it was very intimidating there was smoke in the room and she said sit on that bed so we both sat on this bed like that we don't get involved here we'd give her the money she'd come back with these red tablets with W-Y on them what's this fucking like ecstasy or something you know what's the other so she said explain how we smoke here, put it on the foil.

52:27And what is Yeba? Methamphetamine, right. So, in tablet form, you've got like ice, crystal meth and that. This is like, it's fucking made out of everything there's to be fair, battery acid a lot. So we had this on a little bit of, like it was a chewing gum foil and they made a little bit of a pipe. And I'm thinking, what the fuck? So, she's burnt it. She's obviously going, well, the ladyboy's obviously going first. And it's turned into oil. Not like heroin. Exactly the same. little brown little beetle but it wouldn't run it was just bubbling it was like a little and a smoke was coming off it and then she was inhaling it smoke it with a foil it like it did smoke it like a tube the foil like that burning it and then yeah your go i was like i can't give it a go done the same and she'd hold it in and i let it out and i swear it was it i was holding it i let and I was like, this feeling just exploded in my head.

53:24And it was like euphoria. Wow. You know what I mean? It was just, I like a bit of this. But it was quite mad for me because even though I was still in feelings over this girl and I was using on top of it, I was trying to type in time. On a phone, I'd type a keyboard to this girl and I was there for fucking hours. But because I was taking this drug, it didn't fucking matter. but it didn't we needed to come down you know for me it was like when I say like the progression was slow the minute I took that like you said it comes hand in hand but yeah so we went to we jumped on these bikes and flew to Burma it must have been about four in the morning both of us you know what I mean one, two, five all the way to the Mermat so the yabba's got you clucking for smack straight away no that's not it's clucking we're not clucking we're just fucking hell everything now let's go for it we've gone yeah we've gone this is it this is why I've named my title my channel The All or Notting because I'm all or notting so I've gone with them to Burma like Burma gone through the border because you can go you can go through the day you couldn't stay there any longer than a day to be honest but you can get the other one the China White on the other side it was quite cheap that's where you got it from and it came in like little white vials with an orange cap we got it and it was like like, who's taking this over?

54:51Who's taking this back across the border? You know what I mean? I went, fuck, we'll have to flip for it. You know what I mean? And he lost. We went back through the border. And because it was so pure, this heroin, you couldn't really smoke it. You know what I mean? You'd have to snort it. That's how you OD on it, innit? Yeah, well, I smoked it first and it was like just burning up, just going black and smoke. Like, not going in any direction, but everywhere. It's time to fucking get it. Little bit of it, you've got it in your lungs and measly you're spewing up and you feel it's fucking powerful and that was it I was hooked on everything again back in the hamster wheel yeah but like taking addiction to a different level to an extreme in Thailand so that was when the addiction was at it's worst Thailand was that because it's easily accessible you feel like you're away from it all it was cheap it was cheap easily accessible there was there was no shame in a sense because in the UK you know you're avoiding people you know yeah there it was just you just didn't care doing it on the beach no it was just like you just you just I mean it wasn't done in public but you could go about your day without having to bump into someone that you knew right and especially trying to communicate with them as well yeah yeah yeah ah you're better you're alright I get that no one can fucking speak English and it was like it's that saying isn't it ignorance is bliss so do you think you're just a fucking bad thing I could accept that you're the only person I've ever met that's lived to tell the tale after using Yabba.

56:22You were telling me about what you found? I said to you off camera, yeah, when I got offered very briefly, I'll mention this because people that are familiar with Thailand will remember maybe 20 odd years ago, there were boiler rooms set up. A lot of Aussies, a lot of Kiwis, a lot of Brits, a lot of ex-military would set up these boiler rooms and they'd sell Moody investments and then they'd move office three months later before they got raided. And so I was sold this dream. So I've gone over to Thailand and I've gone, oh, you know, what's the score? What's the deal? And they've told me what they're doing.

56:55I'm not going to start selling moody investments. I'm not going to steal off fucking elderly people. So I was out. It was sold completely different. And when I had a steward's inquiry and sort of dug right into the nuts and bolts of what the business fucking was, it was a scam. I said, yeah, I'm not robbing people. But the guy that told me about it wasn't on the yabba. when I went back a year later to meet another mate of mine who was a mutual friend he'd been on the Yabba for about nine months he looked like the walking dead within 12 months after that he was dead so I've always thought fucking what is Yabba because it kills people quick yeah it's a very very addictive drug mass produced very cheap so you can get as much as you wanted if you had a few quid you could smoke it all day long but it does For me it was like It was a I went from like A 14 stone Kid To like It was that skinny in the end I could anglaid off a fucking deriso That was this guy Yeah He was unrecognisable Literally He looked like a fucking He looked like a He looked like a Stick insect Stick insect corpse Like the walking dead The paranoia The paranoia with her as well Was it It's unbelievable You know Like Did more than said Oh you know You could see eyes underneath her You know In the end you know, I developed this habit on the habit.

58:17Not so much the China way because you did have to travel to Birmingham, which was a good few kilometres away to buy that. So I was quite happy just using that at the time. I wasn't a big drinker. I'm not into alcohol, you know. So that was enough. And is that how you got banged up being caught with it? I felt like I was invincible and I was invisible at the same time because the police over there are so corrupt that when you get pulled up without a crash helmet on your bike, you know they're always like putting a little board there and you know you give them 200 bar and they're happy and then you move on so you know if you get pulled up and you've got something on you you know nah sometimes if you've got the money you give it them you know but I kind of went a bit too far over there I started to sell drugs for these times you know they would give me the other tablets not like Colombian cartel kind of access just like a few hundred tablets here and I was moving into moving around a lot of Europeans and people in these nightclubs in spicy nightclub in Chiang Mai and just shelling them to non-tires and that's how I was that's how I was like funded me having because I was paying that getting this but I was my own best customer yeah I was using more than fucking you know that I'd sell so I was always in debt but I was always blended zigzagging away you know and I was in my room one one morning I'd had an argument with this guy Nui that I'd boxed with because he wanted a bit of strap off me a bit of tic and I wouldn't give him me the tyres didn't really ask me but when I did they're usually alright but you never fucking pay you so I wouldn't give him me and he took a resentment towards me and he had a pair of a pair of pumps in his tuk-tuk because he was a tuk-tuk fucking taxi driver by the day but you know we fucking show fight overnight and he rang me up out the blue and I've got loads of this Thai stick weed, by the way, in the room.

1:00:13I've got a couple of under tablets in these straw packets in the room on the side. I've got a room full of weapons but no enemies. Stun gun. I've got a Colt 45 that I bought for 10 ,000 baht. Every man on his dog's got a gun over there. Never fucking used it, by the way. It was just there. I was excited. And he rang me up. And he went, Billy, where are you? and I went to I was half asleep still had conflicts in my eyes I went to I'm in my room he went to I've got your you know your shoes in my taxi so he said I'll bring them round tell me where you are so I did as I put the phone down I'm like fucking coming to awake I was thinking why did he do that why is he willing to come round why did he even ring me that's very unusual something was like not right so I went to the door and I said you know I soon opened the door I'm on the top floor I've looked at them and I've seen these, you know, they were fucking iron police, but they weren't like, they were undercover, just fucking running on shits, she shits, they weren't fucking dressed like police, and usually it's the way you do it, and they were running up the stage, fucking shut the door and shit myself.

1:01:26Imagine, started grabbing these drugs, plugging everything, sticking it up my arse. Sat with me back against the door. I got off, what the fuck? Bam, bam, bam, bam. William, William, William. I was like, who is he? I went, police, police. I went, no, it's not a new boss. I went, throw me your ID card. I don't know why I was stolen. There was nothing else I could do. You know, I've all these fucking, all these weapons everywhere. Thrones arts and everything, you know what I mean? So this card's coming. I didn't even look at it. I just knew I pushed it back. and I've opened the door they've rushed in they've just fucking man man handled me to the ground fucking tied me up fucking cuffed me up and gave me a few little beatings and that and then got all these weapons couldn't find any drugs took me downstairs cuffed out the shame I was felt because I got used to like another concierge downstairs he's always let on and we're back streaming on Peacock may I present to you the award winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller Slap me.

1:02:25Let's jar something loose. Ay, yes! I like that. The certified Fresh Series returns. You're a boss. You always like this? Or is this just an act? Oh no, this isn't it. Oysters, everybody! There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to live. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports.

1:03:11Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. He still thought he was an English teacher. Yeah, I mean, he was nice. I'd be walking down like that cuff behind my back got in and before that by the way Liam right I went to Lau I've got to share this right I went to Lau to buy a fucking different yeah but it's cheaper over there I bought a thousand over there at one time and I hired this Honda Wave as soon as I got into Lau VNTN and I was going to this nightclub the only nightclub that they've got in Lau by the way and it didn't open till midnight. And as I was, like, on this bike, these girls were whistling and I went, it was just a fucking terminally and fiddly girl led on to them.

1:04:01But as I've said, these two taxis are racing towards me and the both of them have hit me. Right, I've went in the air, the bike's went in the air, I've landed on the floor. The bike, like, it's a Honda Wave 50, it's landed right on my chest. The handlebar's gone right through my stomach. It pudged me lung, broke me ribs. I'm in a bad way by the sound. I've got a thousand Yabba tablets, which is a life sentence in my pocket. I couldn't breathe. These Loatian fucking locals were trying to pick me up. It was a bad accident, really bad. Blood was everywhere. This Irish guy come running over going, leave me alone, leave me alone.

1:04:38You know, you can't move him. There was no ambulance available, so he threw me in this wheelbarrow. And he fucking ran with me to this hospital, which was a dead world dump. I got put on this mattress on the floor right couldn't breathe I was like this literally like I'm going to fucking die and all I was thinking about was the drugs in my pocket hope you don't find me hope you don't find me hope you don't find the drugs trying to breathe and I I heard him saying the Irish fella didn't know who he was this fella he went to is he going to be okay I don't think so I think he's going to die I was like what the fuck this is what what's going on next thing I moved he pushed me to his side to put this cover over there this big hole in my stomach and it must have shifted the rib and a big gust of like air went into me longer I said get me fucking out of here mate I thought you were a Russian you had that Russian mate I said get me out of here and these two these two busy soldiers big fucking Russian caps like the big AK-47s with banana clips walked in looked at me took a photograph of me these two soldiers while I'm lying on the floor.

1:05:47I thought, I've been grassed up to you, better be looked up. I'm going to get nicked. All these mad things were going through my head. And then he just walked off, never seen him again, never knew why he even took that fucking photograph. And then he got off. I mean, get me out of here. He took me to his apartment. And then, kind of, what I was doing in his apartment, I was smoking, I think he's jabbered in the toilet. Just wanted more drugs. Got put on a bus the next day. It was black and blue by this time. And I went to this hospital in Chiang Mai and I stayed there for three months. Didn't have a penny.

1:06:19At the end of the 12 weeks, he wanted the payments. I just fucking jumped up the window. You know what I mean? And then I got nicked a week. That's when I got nicked. When he come in my room, a week later. So that's all he fucking mad into. I was wild with it all. So is there more than one charge? I got nicked for handling and installing a mobile phone. That was the charge. I'd love to sell people. It was, I'd been smuggling fucking kilos. and, you know, I was some crazy cartel gangster. But I got nicked for handling, in the end, a stolen mobile phone. So they raided you for a stolen mobile phone?

1:06:52No, they raided me, right, because they were aware that I was selling drugs. Right. But they couldn't pin anything on me because, like, you know, I mean, most these guys, they're not going to stick anything up the back passage. You know what I mean? And I will. Did they not make you squat and cough when you got to the Obil station? No, in the prison. Yeah. This is how fucking crazy it was. I had a pair of speedos on, right, and they had it in the speedos, I put the weed because it was about just under an ounce in quarter of a year so they're down there the tablets are on my back passage they've got these speasals on and this fucking mad leather waist you know what you always call like a leather one with a big eagle on the back I don't know where the fuck I got it 11 eagles you like yeah with loads of tassels on it I must have put it on and I fucking shot I'm just going to pull it off fire them off my cake so I've got this fucking leathery and a pair of speasals and what the fucking hell I'm sitting in this this cell now with these two other ties and but before they took me to the cell I've asked them to take me to the chemist right this is how this is straight up right so they took me to this chemist I bought three bottles of methadone right some lorazepam I've fucking moggadone nitrazepam and everything I bought all these sablots and diazis you can go over the counter there can't you yeah yeah but there's this clinic that sold you know for addicts so I knew where to go and I had a few thousand bars on me so they took me I was going on throwing a bevy on the side I mean we're okay so yeah they took me got loads of big brown bag full of drugs they put me in the cell right next thing and I come to the cell they'll get the cage with this fucking brown bag so I'm talking I'm not even giving me a bag of drugs in the prison you know what I mean so I'm starting to fucking take it sabbat stragg a bit of me thinking I'm going to take it back off me there's a mad agency to take all these drugs before I went to prison and I got these fucking yabba tablets out right saying to these tires if you've got any foil yeah we've managed to get a bit of foil or lighter but already then they called me for my fingerprints and my fingerprints went back to shell by this time these fucking tablets in the metal kicked in so I'm fucked I just knocked right out then I slept for about 10 hours woke up no tablets left these two tires were shot there one had me fucking leather fucking eagle jacket on like meerkats like that fucking wired I was all where's the fucking tablets going I was made up they never took the metal I was more concerned about that to be fair I never go there's only fucking smoke every one of them but yeah so I mean that's out and then I've gone to court charged with fucking handling I stole a mobile phone I thought I'll be sad yeah I'll be out you know what I mean in no time three years they give me how many three give you three years and wasn't your first night in jail accompanied by a dead person yeah so straight to the way you're getting shackled right so you've got chains on your ankles I think they weigh about 3 kilos I can't really the precise base but it's just constant clinking you know what I mean so you go in so he goes into the prison after squat right 10 times this kid's got a phone up his ass a little thing boom it's like not even a little one it's like one of them fucking you know what they are like the ones that what did they call them the flip ones yeah he's being caught with that so they were all focused on him yeah and we're all squatting and I can't, the noise come on all day, you know what I mean?

1:10:13But I was pretty sure I wanted to fucking make a, I wanted to reveal itself, you know what I mean? But I kept it in. And then I've been put in this cell. I'm just like, by this time now, I'm exhausted. I've been in these police stations and these courts and then in this compound all day. And it's like 10 o 'clock, I'm right now. you know, they're marching us all to these rooms. There was 80 people in this first shelf that put me in. And they went, yo, yo, just telling you where to go. There was a space in the corner next to this lady boy called Tiffany with a big pair of tits and massive tits and this top that said, no money, no money, you're like a boob tube, right?

1:10:55And a pair of Zemmins shorts with a big crazy bulge. Oh, what the fuck is going on? And there was this fucking fella with a blanket over him, bit overweight, bloated. And I went, what's going on? Oh, no problem, he die. We move Monday. And this is fucking Friday. High holiday, no problem. He okay. Oh, man, he die. Just, like, fucking notchering her ass, you know what I mean? So I went, I've got to sleep in between you two. And I just sat there all night, thinking, fucking Alice is fucking mad. This Wallace ladyboy was talking to me in pidgin English with this little top on, saying, I like your blue eye.

1:11:34and I felt flattered and I was thinking it was like the fucking brown one as well you know what I mean fucking you know what I mean a little bit of fear kicking in here so how close to you was this dead body I was like next to each other I'm literally like it's like sardines like you know anyone who's been to a Thai prison he'll tell you straight you know there was like 80 people in three rows so see this is this table so there's there there and there so you've got legs on your shoulder like your legs are on their fucking shoulders they're on yours this body is right like it's here you know what I mean after a couple of days it's just become fucking normal you know and then you get conditioned to your environment and you adapt pretty quick to a point right you've had these little fucking porno mags through the day these ties put the door and you've got to remember you're in a cell with no fucking toilets just two holes on the ground either side and what they do is they throw blanking on you've got to put your name on the list and all they do is just knock them out all day in front of each other yeah it was fucking madness you know you'd wake up and there's someone BZ in the cell you know because they fucking hung themselves they've got to have a 24 hour watch so what they'd have is someone every hour on the hour watching everyone else in the cell and were there lady boys in jail yeah I mean there was three that had had to fall up in Chiang Mai but they were in a compound and were they vicious the lady boys yeah because I remember when I was in I can't remember what part of Thailand it was Could have been Koh Samui Could have been Bhattaya Could have been Phuket But I remember The lady boys would go out Mob-handed And I see them dish out A fucking serious kick-in To one person One night Like a serious kick-in And I thought Cool, fuck it But they're men Yeah, well I had to I did back down from Bob once Because I thought You know what If he knocks the fuck out of me There's no way I'm going to live the fact That I got bit up by a fella with tits So I kind of just had to Kind of bite my tongue And swallow my pride You know what I mean For the fucking Over tramadol tablets because for me being an addict, I wanted to escape the best way I could and then the father, he could get travelled all off the doctors.

1:13:39And then the ladyboys were getting them and I was selling them. So I was going to find myself getting in debt with everyone. And you must have been asked 100 times if you ever fucked a ladyboy. Never. Whilst you was in there or even out. No, I never even got a wank off one or a shock. And I asked Kev Lane this question as well because he's a lifer. Now, I've been celibate now for as long as I can remember. Yeah. And I'm starting to feel the need for intimacy. My problem is I'm a fussy fucker and I can't just have anybody touch me. So that's my conundrum. But so I'm thinking for someone that spends such a long time in jail, we need intimacy.

1:14:17We need to touch each other. So how does someone go such a long stint of time without intimacy? Or do you see a lot of people buckle in jail and think, you know what, it's just a cuddle? I'm not insinuating that that was you but do you know what I mean going a long time about intimacy is not good for your mental health or your equilibrium or as a human being I think to be fair there'll be difference in prisons in the UK everyone's a bit macho but over there with it being a third gen then it was quite you're quite aware that there's a lot of HIV as well you know so that's going to be off putting yeah that's true enough the intimacy you don't want to get too close to anyone you know because of you know blood on blood bone viruses you know so no I never I felt quite fucking frightened because I was very homophobic you know I've got an uncle he's passed away now and he's he was gay but he was a man like he was in the parish he was not feminine whatsoever and I was going on my dad sent me away like to my uncle because he lived in Bournemouth and it was my mum's brother Freddie and the day I was going with that Freddie because I was excited going on like the man going on little trips It's a fruit in your own I went, what?

1:15:31So in my head Now I'm fucking Like I'm just sharing This little apartment Little room In Bournemouth In Bosco With my uncle Thinking Fuck, I had this guy What if he wants to sleep with me? He never did But a fucking frightening life I had me You know what I mean? And he said one night Oh, it's fucking freezing in here I wouldn't mind jumping In that sleeping bag Would you? And I was like Whoa, it was horrible The feeling You know what I mean? So It took a while for me To sort of Even open up to someone Yeah, and I'll tell you what happened. I had a fight with these three foreigners over two of the foreigners.

1:16:01There was this... When you say foreigners, you mean like Brits or Aussies? Yeah, no, no. So there was these two Aussies and this Iranian kid, Ali, Daniel, and this Jason, and these American, Aldo and John. But they were trouble causes, these two old fellas, you know what I mean? They're always like talking about other people. So they come on top of them and it was my first week in this foreign section compound. where there was like five of us to a cell. And you were quite like, yeah, it's a relief from the introduction where you're in that induction cell with 80. So they moved you into a foreign cell, which was, you know, it was quite easier.

1:16:37The cells were a lot smaller and I kind of stood up for these two fellas defending them, which he shouldn't have at the time. But, you know, when my rebel were out of course, I'll fucking fight other people's battles. And, you know, I was going, I'll leave it out, will you, lads? And then they were kicking off through the vents and I woke up in the morning and it went off. And, you know, I ended up fighting with these three fellas. all together got a fucking good item but I give it as good as I got and with that I ended up because I was fucked up they put me in the compound like segregated away from everyone else so I'm in the compound like I said with these three lady boys and when I woke up because I was all caked in blood and this lady boy was dabbing me fucking face with this cotton ball getting all the blood off and he said you okay it sounded like Minnie Mouse on fucking on helium you okay I looked up and she fucking looked gorgeous until I realised it was a man but then I got talking to them because I was in there for like about a month I had to kind of stay there and I found that like I don't know what I found it was like they were really very caring and very understanding you know and no different from anyone else that they were just they were just more feminine you know what I mean they were just they wanted to be women but unfortunately they were men in a men's prison you know and there was no although in the movie there was a scene now if you look online it'll say facts and truth the director John Stephan he wanted to because in the book I was talking about sort of the relationship that had developed in a friendship way with this lady boy called John he was very supportive with a very helpful and kind.

1:18:25Showed me a bit of humorous in a place where it was quite dark and she stunk a fucking Chanel. And he was one of the portrayals like in an intimate relationship. But it wasn't the case? No, it wasn't. It wasn't. That was for drama. When he said it, I was, you know what, fair play, I'll accept that. You know what I mean? And were you forced to watch men rape other men? Yes. That happened? Because there was a gang of men raping one guy and you were forced? This was in Bangkok so I've moved from Chiang Mai at one point to, you know, I spent a year in Chiang Mai prison where there was only 4 ,000 inmates and you say only 4 ,000, that's fucking massive, there's a lot you know, the biggest prison in Europe was HMP Liverpool and I held 1 ,500 inmates so, you know, you think about this prison, 4 ,000, there's a lot but when you go to Klong Prem you know, you've got over 18 ,000 inmates in there Bombard Prison, you've got the Women's Prison you've got the hospital, you've got Lad Yao so there's a massive compound, complex And Bangkok prison that you got moved to, that is one of the most dangerous prisons in the world.

1:19:24Yeah. Yeah. It's the most, yeah, but it's, it's, it's, so you've got a thousand inmates on each unit with two prison officers. And I'll be straight. I've witnessed, like, I witnessed murder there, you know, rapes, a lot of, I was subjected to a lot of violence myself. You know, I was in debt because, again, I couldn't face reality. Can we cover those three things? Go on then. Because I know there's a particular murder that you witnessed that was chilling. Yeah. Because you described it as a very calm... Collective, yeah. Just plunging the knife in his organs. Neck shots, all killer blows. They're all death shots, yeah.

1:20:03And what was that all about? See, there was this guy and he was quite... He was different from the other sides. He used to have this bandana. And there were the southern sides and the northern sides and then you've got the central sides. So you've got north side, which is Chiang Mai, south side, which is closest to Malaysia, and then you've got the central, which is the Bangkok area. so the southern sides were like they were Muslims most of them yeah the northern sides and the central were Buddhists because it's a it's a very religious country everyone's fucking praying in the morning they're praying at night you've got you know the calls of prayer by the Muslims morning, noon and night it's a so there's a lot of people at his shoulders' throats and this guy for whatever reason I think it was over a phone a mobile phone is a is fucking such advantages of this other side and it's come on off of him and all I remember was standing in the library and I don't want to say a library it's not like a unit it's like outdoors you know what I mean just a fucking little hut with no door on it with loads of books here and there's a pathway there and I've heard this commotion and he's running and you know what you can hear is these flip flops just running they're slapping against the floor but like not at speed and he was catching up with this fucking enormous blaze on him this kid next to me in the library remember the school chairs the metal ones with the wooden seats yes so he's coming running out with one of them and just caught this kid with the bands on it smacked him right in the face he's hit the floor that's it he's in a vulnerable position he's got this knife and he's just stabbing him and I'm watching it and it's like it's slow motion it was very surreal you know and I could see it going in places this is in his neck this is in his chest this is in his body He's just getting them everywhere.

1:21:49And it's not like in a frenzy. It's not like doing that. It's just shot. And then he's looking for another opening bang. And it's like, you're dead. And I couldn't imagine, right, at that time, I don't know how many blows there was a lot. And there was a crowd, about 50 people, that are surrounded. And I also can remember them saying, it was, come on, come on, come on. And I didn't understand what that meant. until later that meant kill him. They were all screaming, like chanting kill him. So they all wanted this guy over a phone? Over something. I didn't really get the backstory of what went on, but I did.

1:22:29It was a phone and you can only see people's words for what was going on. Couldn't, the communication was a bit poor. I was lacking in that. And what about the rape? Why did the geezer get raped and why were you forced to watch him get raped? It was more of a dominant. kind of experience because I was in the same shell, you know, and in other words, you know, if you keep in your mouth that this is what's going to happen. That was your warning? Yeah. And I've been like threatened with HIV, you know, improvised syringes made, you know, there were pens with fucking pens at the end full of blood. You know, and I've had that put in my neck, you know, and I knew that this gang of samurais that were all emphricated and tattooed, I mean, literally from here.

1:23:14never really on the face just from here yeah right the way down right tattoos here just skin and bone you were getting you know you knew they had HIV because everyone said you know that little crowd over there they're all injecting each other with the same needle now every every fucking day you know they were feared because of the blood bone virus and the fact that they didn't give a fuck and I was in debt to this one to that one I owed money everywhere to a point where they had to fucking cover my bills somehow or I was going to end up dead. And it wasn't like I was going to end up dead quick.

1:23:47It was like a slow death sentence, which was more of a fear. Right. You know, imagine, you know, you've got to kind of suffer. I'd rather go quick than suffer slow for a long time. I mean, you was on the receiving end of some violence as well. Yeah, I was forever, you know, getting involved. To a point where they were calling me, they were saying, you know, you're a crazy foreigner for Angbar. And I was like, I don't have that. Did you ever think you might end up killing someone? No. What about, did you ever think about killing yourself? Plenty of times, yeah, yeah. In there? Yeah, and it was against the rules.

1:24:23Because every morning there was a tannoy and he gave all ten commandments. And one of them was like, you can't kill, you can't commit suicide. And I remember being in a cell. Thou shall not kill myself. Yeah, right. And I remember being in a cell. I couldn't understand what it was. I couldn't translate it to myself. And I remember saying to this site, sell me your laces. I had sliders on. And he went by, I went to, what the fuck had I done? He said, what the fuck had I done? And he went to, can't. You know, and in his best English, he said, the cell would suffer and we'd get punished as a cell, as a whole.

1:24:59Oh, if that allows you to kill yourself, they'd all be in trouble. Yeah, so that's what happened. What were the other commandments? Oh, stealing. It was fucking basically, you know, no stealing. No sex was one of them and all that. I couldn't recall everyone It's like no one took notice of the commandments No It was a ritual every morning and every evening So you'd have to stand In the prison courtyard While he raised the flag The Thai National flag While I was singing the Thai National anthem Even as a foreigner you'd have to stand there And you'd have to join in I could fucking put his own in my head all the time And I'd all stand there like that And I'd be singing along And it was every morning 8am and then 8am every evening they'd sing another time National Anthem before they went to fucking sleep because at 8 o 'clock after that National Anthem National Anthem had finished it was silence you couldn't say nothing you couldn't even speak in the cell right so bang no one it was shh nip right not a word so the whole prison just went silent you know and it was that was just the way it was every day that's a mental three years and didn't you turn your hand or dabble in Islam as well?

1:26:14So what happened was, right, I was, there was a guy, and a lovely fella called Pete Chet. Now, I was in that much debt and I was fucking starving and I couldn't fucking pay these bills and, you know, I was fucking hiding from everywhere and there was this Christian lady called Catherine who used to come up and see us all the time and she'd buy us food and cigarettes, you know. We'd get prisoners abroad and send us protein tablets in 2 ,000 bars that go into your accounts every month from a charity called Prisoners Abroad which I'm really grateful for and I remember saying to Catherine look I'm going to be honest with you I'm in a bad way here I said I don't know if by this time Liam I don't know I couldn't I'd seen this kid getting murdered watching these people getting raped I kept getting tired coming over to me doing that and I thought people were saying you're going to be next you know lad you don't sort your head out you're going to get it you know I need to pay these bills it wasn't much it was about I'd say about 8000 baht but to me it was it was out of reach you know what I mean and I spoke to Catherine on a vision and explained what had happened she said look I'll pay this we'll pay this bill for you right but you cannot right do this again right and I was like please please so to pay this bill right that's left me with with eh no repercussions now but what I also was left with no fucking money right I'm not going to borrow off anyone I can't I'm eating prison food which is like chicken feet and it stinks chicken feet with sticky rice and it fucking smells literally you've got to do that you know to get it down because it was sick and I couldn't face it and I remember walking around the prison as I do every day you know just doing laps it was a big big massive complex and these Muslims were sat there and they're all fucking eating this fucking glorious food and I kept looking what you do fucking hell fucking better than me and one of them would you like to join us fucking nice so shut down and he said do you want to pray with us and I went yeah fucking hell fucking christian I'm a Catholic they're all to pray and I went oh no we pray like this so I'll pray like this what do we do in here and he fed me and I said I'll come back tomorrow and I went it's only for the Muslim brothers we just didn't fight you today because we we've been seeing you and you know it's not really something that we do all the time I said okay the next day I got a fucking sharon a skull cap I sat down I said my name's Yusuf Muhammad right that's it my name's and he didn't bat an eyelid right so but the fucking crafty fuckers they fed me then he went look you've got to go pray with us now so next thing they threw a Quran at me so I've got to learn but it was in English so I'm learning this Quran then he said you've got to they were shahada, so I was like, what the fuck is shahada?

1:29:10They go, I should do it, I should do it. This is going back years ago, by the way. Yeah. So I'm trying to keep the engine room alive, right? Got all the, like, the English fucking foreigners going, you fucking hell, but you're with all the Muslim over there, because they're all the tallest, they're all tiny. So they've got me, I've got my school cap on now, I've got me sharon and I'm going for it. And I'm fucking standing in this. Did you grow the beard? No, fucking hell. Go to the line somewhere. Couldn't even grow a muzzy. They were all cutting foreskins off and everything, you know, people who they didn't call them converts they called them reverts so they were saying right Bill you've reverts and they were sad don't get me wrong and I was asking questions what about you blowing up this and blowing up that and they were going oh you know this fundamentalist Bill and his extremist he said right see these over there they're extremists right he said Islam is peace right when I say salam alaykum alhamdulillah that means peace be upon you and also it means that no arm will come to you I said okay that's kind of interesting and you know these are these are feeding me it kind of reminded me of like being safe in a group and unified and everything was haram you couldn't take drugs and you did well I don't want to take drugs I don't mind a bit of food but then they moved me into a shell with them and I think it was about six months you know they were waking me up early hours in the morning you know yes they looked at Fadjar and they'd take you to Juma so I'd meet other people and I met this guy from Australia Mitch he was doing life he'd converted to Islam as well there was a drama on TV about him I'll send you the link I don't think he's involved in it at all more he's out and obviously at least he's living in Australia he's doing well but yeah I kind of like dabbled in in that but you've got to understand I went from Buddhism to I tried every religion under the sun in this prison by the way right and I'll tell you why because there's something in our cards where we sought help through medication religion and psychiatry so I was taking medication to come off the medication I was already on or to change the fact that I was an addict I was seeking religion for a bit of solace in everything I could find you know what I mean so whether it was Islam whether it was Christianity because you've got to remember you had loads of Nigerians in there right so every Sunday they'd be banging drums and giving you three bars of soap so it'd be a Christian on a Sunday and then I'd be skipping into this Islam kind of circle on a Tuesday and a Wednesday for a bit of scrania you know what I mean I was kind of playing the field just surviving keeping the engine moving alive getting disciplined in this role and I was keeping away from drugs but I was getting fed I was doing okay I felt safe and like I said they moved me into the cell and I was playing five times and they were kicking me up at five in the morning fucking you've got to do a lot so we give that a little go and that's why I named the book A Prayer Before Dawn because every morning before the sun rose you'd hear prayers whether it was the Islamic calls of prayer or it was the Buddhist chanting there was prayers and then the doors would open and you'd be unleashed into these gates it was like fucking hell everyone was surviving like I said there was two prison officers and I seen this guy one morning come running out of this office the commander's office stabbing himself right like going for it blows everywhere and I knew he was part of the samurai gang and it was literally squirting and everyone was panicking and staring and it got to a stage right where for me I became conditioned to it so much that I thought while they're all doing that I'll join the queue where the hot water is because it'd gone down and I'll be getting my water quicker than anyone else It got to that stage Where it was just normal Completely desensitised And I was thinking This is it I can get more water Quicker Blah blah blah But yeah When you When you got released Did you Was you released As a Buddhist Or a Christian Or a Muslim Or the day you was released Did you think I'm back to Billy Moore again No I'll tell you what happened Right So And how did that feel Getting released Because that's got to be The worst three years Of anyone's life Yeah It was a bit Of a mad one really Because Bangkok was on fire right there was a war there was like the red party and the yellow party they were going so the fucking airport had gone up and everything you could go back and have a little look online they were setting fire to the whole fucking whole whole of the city right and it was it was a day for me to go out at this time so we got put back and I was like deflated thinking fucking hell is this how it is but yeah I got released from this cell where which I was sharing with the Muslim guys, and they were all Southern Thais, and they were really lovely people, very supportive, and they walked me to the gates, and they weren't putting pressure on me to do this or do anything, everything was just okay, and then we said our goodbyes, and I remember getting taken to immigration, and these two cockney screws turned up, like, a fucking bit madly, and we get on the plane British Airways 12 hour flight cuffed before you go on take him off no one's on the plane you take them off you sat at the back screw there screw there but alright and they're writing down here give you all your details you know your food what religion are you and as soon as I they said to me oh fucking hell one's worst fella fucking Muslim fucking gang's everywhere what religion are you share I was like fuck no telling a minute like that fuck that know what I mean so I just said I'm an atheist I'm fucking I'm not know what I mean and I kind of didn't know oh so you got moved from Thailand to a British jail oh yeah so they shipped you to Wandsworth yeah so two screws I flew over from Wandsworth because I had a repatriation because of I'd put in for it with the embassy because I still had time to finish on my prison sentence in Bangkok but what if I get back home now I don't know if I know you know and I thought it's the right time and hopefully they'll go through the red tape a lot quicker and he went yeah okay and he got me back to the UK so these two shrewd picked me up flew me back Mr Moneypenny I remember his name very well and the minute I got on a plane and I kind of knew that oh I had to go behind me it was a way of surviving it was keeping the engine room going and I would have done anything to kind of stay alive yeah so and was Wandsworth for walking the park compared to Bangkok yeah it was because when I've landed in Wandsworth you've got to understand I've got a complete culture shock now being out of the country for five years it wasn't a three month backpacker it turned into five years I've came back to the to the UK I'm in this prison on A-Wing and I was just fucking baffled by it all and I had kids at the service kicking off fucking chips you fucking goud I could show you that fucking chicken I was thinking you just walking ungrateful swats you want to see what I've just been eating there I've fucking been eating Flip-flops and everything And it's fucking horrible So yeah I stayed in Wandsworth For eight months Before they released me And then Ended up getting a job On the gym As a gym orderly Any violence in Wandsworth?

1:36:40No No I bet you was just sick Of any kind of violence By then I was clean I was in recovery You've got to understand I got to a stage I've kind of settled down Training, eating well Yeah training Eating well Were the screws interested In your story? Yeah I was very sub-servant as well because it's a very yes sir no sir country Thailand you're kind of sub-servant you can't stand above the screws you've got to bow to them it was holy yeah yeah and what are the guards like in Thailand corrupt? yeah very very corrupt you know there's no anything about a pound in them so after you got released from Wandsworth and that's it you're a free man what happened from there is that when you was approached for the film?

1:37:24no no So what's happened is I've been writing and documenting what's been going on whilst I was away in prison. So I had all these bits of paper, smuggled it out into envelopes, letters that I'd had, because you couldn't really write about what was going on. You couldn't kind of evidence what you'd seen or witnessed. But I wanted the actual factual documentation. So it would be day to day, writing like sort of a diary, little bullet points. and when I got to Wandsworth one of the one of the education staff came to see me because I'd been writing this A4 piece of paper and he'd be like my god you need to write more I'm like what do you mean he'd be like I've just read this little story he said and he said I've been I've found myself in that cell with you he said the atmosphere the fear the anxiety everything he said you need to continue and I went very and I thought is he stroking my ego so Dave his name is big shout out I started to continue writing until eventually I've written this book called A Prayer Before Dawn and that was the title I chose

1:38:34and when I've got out it was hard work I was getting knocked back by everyone sending it off the manuscript and the synopsis to their publishers not for us but try something else I wish you all the best I kept putting them in envelopes and posting them and getting nowhere in the end this guy from this guy from Thailand said they'll take it on board give me a 500 pound advance wow here's a 500 pound advance the book was only published in South East Asia at the time and then I met this other guy from Ireland about a year later he wanted to buy the rights of the worldwide Maverick House Publishing so that went for that he gave me an advance not as much similar price to that and then I've got this book now and then I took it to my producers well I didn't take it I'll tell you what happened I was on I was in Liverpool on Hopesteed and I walked into this building I said Hurricane Films and I pressed this buzzer and the woman said can I help you I said I've got this book would you like to do it she said we'll speak to the manager they said can you come back next week so we came back next week the week after and then he said we're not in today can you come back again I said look do us a favour just take this book I said no I'll leave you alone so he took the book I think he wanted to get rid of me because I kept fucking there every other day in the end left me an email and a phone number and three months later I got a phone call I was on a bus on the way home saying oh my god we've read this story you know could you come in do you want a meeting it's quite exciting everyone's buzzing about the story that you've written do you want to make a movie a movie I just wanted a little bit of exposure from I don't know what I was expecting but I went and sat down with them and they were talking about big actors and this and that big budgets fucking joking aren't you and that's what happened sat at this table next time there's a director on board there's an actor involved you know wearing cans on the red carpet with 2000 people cheering and clapping and standing to this movie that's just finished in this big mad cinema I'm stood there in the fucking tuxedo like just thinking is this surreal wow and I'm just amazed at the response that received after because I had a big part to play in the script as well.

1:41:21Yeah, it was just exciting, you know. Overwhelming. Yeah, it was like a minute standing over. And I remember speaking to the American guy, James Seamus, who put the money to the budget. He was sitting next to me, I had Joe Cole, and then I had John Stefan Savard, the director there. And I had everyone's clapping and I went to this James Seamus. I said, do you think he liked it? He went, he said, listen we're in france he said he said the french he said to boo you whether you were here or not he said he loved it he said you're well done and then i was interviewed back to back all day and it was there was a lot of positive responses you know the variety magazines and all this i was like wow this is this is too much you know what i mean um so yeah that was all exciting but at the same time i'd been diagnosed with cancer uh stage three which was above and below the diaphragm so I had a tumour in me now you know I was five years clean I was in recovery I was doing really well I was working at this recovery service in Liverpool you know giving back I was I was in a relationship at that house I had a car you know I had a cat that I didn't like but it was it but we had it so yeah things were going well you know movie book what am I looking at that for bang this diagnosis the relationship ended, I was given medication which he abused so I was given a payout at the same time so you can imagine that, thousands of pounds paid out to me, put in my account and I was saying to myself, I'll just have one just one, I'll get away with this I can justify it because of So you relapsed again?

1:42:59Yeah. With the cancer? Yeah, so relapse of the cancer you know, the girlfriend I was with she left, I couldn't the job, sick pay ended to a point where I wasn't even coming back to it, you know what I mean, so that got stopped couldn't pay the rent from the house I was in so I was avoiding the landlord every time he was knocking at the door I had all the furniture was gone because the girl was there took it so I'm left with nothing basically the only thing she left was her cat which fucking ran away in the end so it was just me and my addiction in a dark place to a point where I broke into my neighbour's house right which I don't feel good about by the way you know people keep telling me and reminding me about stuff that I've done in the past.

1:43:44And, you know, I accept that. I can't change it. I'll never escape. You know, my history, it is what it is. But that kind of, that was another significant moment because I was hiding near-takes it from everyone. That land you back in jail? Yeah. See, the producers took money out of me where I had left and paid for me to go into this rehab in Essex. Right. So it was a privately funded rehab. It cost a fucking few quid. I could have done it in a fucking council one. But I went in there and I was there for six weeks. I've got clean By the time I've got out I'm like six, seven weeks clean The police have come and charged me For breaking into my neighbours You know We got on with And I didn't get on with But the rest of the time We were on holiday And I You know I feel terrible about it To be fair Liam It's not It's not a nice thing to do I must have fucking Fucked in the head That I couldn't even I never even had the energy To go out You know I never had the energy to graft anymore or the heart How long clean are you now?

1:44:45Now I'm eight eight years clean Okay that's a significant stint of time isn't it? Yeah but at the time so I landed back in prison you know they said I couldn't I was put on chemotherapy so you've got to remember So you're in jail on chemo? No I just finished the chemo that month Right So you've got to remember all the contributing factors all the contributing factors that led to to what I've done I've spent everything I've wrecked myself I want to die I think I'm going to die you know I'm running out of funds you know I want drugs to just fucking escape again I'm doing anything and everything that can be possible to that point where I committed that crime and I felt so bad about that I returned all the property but I couldn't stop it didn't take away what I did you know I had no right and I still feel bad about it.

1:45:42Was that the final straw, do you think, for you? Yeah, it was for me. The lowest. I woke up the next morning and made that decision to tell people the truth because I had been out there for so long and I bet that I had a problem again and that I'd relapsed and that's when the producers thought, well, we've got to get a fucking saw to the air. We'll use this money. And I went into this real for six weeks, got out, got charged by the police, which was justified, rightly so, you know commit a crime you know you know you've got to kind of suffer the consequences went to court thinking okay so the judge will understand that being through a relapse the last 10 years he hasn't been in prison you know worked with the NHS you know I've worked up until the day I got cancer and they'll give me a squeeze no straight away he's looked at my criminal record hasn't even read the letter I've read right two and a half years in prison right so I'm five months clean by this time never been to prison clean in my life always been going in rattling I had to fucking just go through the system but this time I went in five months clean and I stayed clean from the 23rd of September 2017 and I haven't used since I haven't smoked a cigarette I haven't drank I haven't took a substance the only fucking thing I've took is a fucking paracetamol you know I know exactly what happens to me And in that eight years, I haven't been arrested.

1:47:09I haven't been charged. No one's been robbed. No one's been hurt. No one's been fucking attacked. I haven't been attacked. And you feel like a better man. Yeah. It's like... I become my dad. I become a demon. I become all those things that I don't want to be. And I remember saying to me mum, look, you know what? I know I'm not the man I should be and I know I'm not the man I could be or the man I want to be, but I thank God I'm not the man I used to be, right? because, you know, I am so, I am fucking horrible. You put something in me and it changes everything. All my makeup just changes. I'm someone else, you know what I mean?

1:47:44Like, I'm like, fucking hell, but no, he's got fucking dope. Bam, bam. It's someone else. It's not me. It's horrible. I reckon anyone that's met you since you've been clean will find it very hard to believe who you are when you're not clean. Yeah. Because it's a shock to me to think of all the things that you've done on the man that you admit to be when you're on that. but I suppose when you're on The Substance, you are The Substance. You're not Billy Moore no more. No, you know. And that's why I'll finish off in a bit with what I do and why I do it. Is this the street journalism stuff? Yeah. Because that's what I want to finish this on now.

1:48:15Now that you're straight and you're clean, I want to know what inspires you to start, like, documenting on what's going on on the street and also what you've seen, the decline of society, the open-air drug use and the worst towns you've visited and the violence. well I've so I was similar to yourself I started like a podcast I was asked to come on a few podcasts James English Day 2 Geordie Lab Bible and I was telling my story to everyone in the end and I got fed up like of listening to my own fucking you know you get bored you know what I mean get that tone you know you do so and I'd read comments this guy should have his own podcast well I thought I'll start one and I interviewed like you know I had like Paddy the Baddie Tony Bell you fucking Molly McCann all these Liverpool people from Liverpool Paul A.

1:49:02Schmidt and one of the Schmidt brothers and I was getting good guests on great interesting stories the likes of Kevin Lane and Carlton Leach you know just interesting people you know I had a lot of interesting people but then I got to a point where I wasn't feeling it anymore you know I liked to interact with people you know and I went out one day and I started to speak to people on the streets people like Michelle people who've been there you know and trying to inspire them to change and share my experience with them because I know what it's like to be in a dark place you know I know what it's like to to be in that fucking cell and to miss a meal and to sleep on a cold street so I wanted to share my experience you know that someone would get it you know not everyone does there's a lot of people who react and you know if you if you make yourself a target then you put yourself on a platform it becomes that I'll treat you the way you treat me you know we'll talk about Charlie Veitch my first experience with him I don't really watch other people's podcasts I just hear people say oh he hates crackheads he hates smackheads this that and the other and I felt like a little bit offended okay I'm an ex-user right you know I'll always be an addict but I don't have to be an act of addiction and the first time we spoke and he said, do you feel offended that I call crackheads crackheads?

1:50:28I said, well, it's a bit derogatory. And it was this guy. Everyone called him Crutchy. And I kind of, when I met him, I liked him. He was fucking wild. You know, he was sleeping in doorways with another guy called Ironside. He was in a wheelchair. These names that Charlie featured give these characters, you know, Crutchy because he'd whacked them with a crutch. So you've got all these mad characters with these mad names and you know I met them and they're like me you know I can bounce off anyone I'll speak to anyone it doesn't matter what background what race what religion lack of religion call a creed I'll speak to you if you've got a story and you want to share it with me then you know we can relate and we can have a good chat and I'll have a little bit of banter and I started building a relationship with these people within the gardens and it gave me an opportunity to get in the middle of them and have a chat with them as other people were on the on the firing line from a distance where I was in the middle you know and I felt it was a bit more easier to communicate and get a story from them and then when I heard what they were going through and you know what they were saying you know I could relate to it and I kept saying to this this this what's your name my name's Anthony Anthony Merner you know but people call me Terbo I said why don't you fucking give yourself a chance lad you know you're weird you know you don't want to be like like doing this for the rest of your life.

1:51:57He's got five daughters. He was telling me he had a good job. I was thinking, wow, he went from a great job, great family life, kids, to losing his dad who was in a wheelchair. Then I picked up why he was pushing this other fellow around in a wheelchair, he was homeless. I picked it up. He was playing that role again. And I thought, I'm going to keep working with him. So I did for about a year. I kept telling him there's a better way to live and I pushed her on him and now he's in recovery he's six months clean, next week he's doing a 10k run, he's sponsored by Adidas and this is fucking unbelievable how about that?

1:52:43He's got his son back in his life, his kids I feel really emotional when I see that, not because it just reminds me of me, because people used to write in the comments Billy fuck him off he's not worth it he's not worth it he's a waste of space leave him shak him and I thought Billy that is exactly what people said about you right that's the same stuff that they're saying about him that he said about you right and now you know it's not that he's proved everyone wrong it's not about proving people wrong it's about like showing people that there is like there is change in others that you can If you dig deep enough, you can change.

1:53:24Yeah, you know, and what I see now is people say to me, you were on the streets, you know, I go, I've seen Anthony. You call him Anthony now. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award-winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's jar something loose. Aye, yes! I like that. The Certified Fresh Series returns. You're a boss. You always like this, or is this just an act? Oh, no, this is mad. Oysters, everybody! Has it happened? There is a certain satisfaction when you work with someone. Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig. The Paper. New season streaming September 9th, only on Peacock.

1:53:58This show gives me a reason to laugh. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode, available on Plus and Pro plans. Has Charlie and Anthony reconciled the relationship? No, but hopefully they will do because, you know, Anthony's got all the old resentments, which is quite nice, really, because he's been on the receiving end of a lot.

1:54:41But, you know, he's made himself that target. He's put himself on that platform. And that character, Charlie Beach has got a big heart as well because I've interviewed him. Yeah, off camera I've spoken to Charlie And I quite like You know, I quite like him off camera He's got a lot of kindness in him Yeah, he has And he's a different person When he's on there So, you know But it is what it is And he does what he does And kind of like, you know He's, um Because you sometimes cross each other Don't you, when you're doing your content Yeah, I'm a civil Yeah You know, and, um We don't really He does what he does And I've accepted That's how he operates And he accepts how I operate And there's a balance I have to admit I love watching you both Yeah I know Charlie's totally outrageous Yeah he can antagonise I mean he's outrageous But fucking hell He has been absolute stitches I just can't believe Some of the things he comes out of I think He's very clever Oh yeah He could have been a comedian A journalist An actor He could have been like A Monty Python script writer Yeah Very very clever guy I'm quite envious of the way He can articulate and communicate And like You know his knowledge Yeah I'm just I've just got street smart I'm a scally You know I like how you get right in amongst them and when they stick it on you, you give your phone to somebody else and you sort of, you offer them yourself and then their energy changes.

1:55:57I like the fact that you're game with them all as well. You know what? I see everything that goes on. I mean, these people now who are claiming to be homeless, that living in tents, they become portable crack dens. Nine out of ten people on the streets aren't homeless. There's genuine people out there who are really struggling and I've got empathy and, you know, understanding them, you know, trying to help them fucking change. But then you've got people who are, you know, Piccadilly Gardens, for fuck's sake, is like an apocalyptic playground. You know, you've got all the illegal migrants in there shaving up bits, selling bits, you know, stabbing each other, fighting with each other.

1:56:33There's, you know, I've gone to the streets in Sheffield where, you know, no one speaks English and they're just fucking fly-tipping everywhere and there's a shithole. You know, Liverpool down Homestreet, down Smithdown, it's just a fucking wreck all the Albanians just just turned it into a bombsite so when I go down to these little cities and towns and visit these areas you know you see the rapid decline of like you know the country as a whole it's just massive and there's no integration there's no communication there's a pockets full of madness everywhere and there's cliques different communities no one there's no glue like there was back back when we were young no glue in the community no one sticks together you know and when you you know it's just a bit of a difficult time living and we see it I've got an opinion you know I've got my views Can you feel tensions rising more and more regularly?

1:57:26I do and do you know what to be honest I'm not really a big fan of going to these protests but I'll go you know and if they're on I'll pop into one and I kind of speak to the left and I speak to the right and when I speak to people on the far left say you know they become really aggressive abusive call me and that Nazi, I thought, what the fuck's a Nazi? Why are you calling me a Nazi? I'm not from Germany, you know, I've got nothing to do with Hitler. They call me a Zionist, a fascist. I'm like, fucking hell, these are new words, aren't they? You know, I'll have to find out what this means. If only they knew you've been a Buddhist, a Christian, and a Muslim.

1:57:57They call you a racist. I was like, fucking hell, come on, stop it. Now I get to, I felt offended. You know, now I don't, I get to a point where I don't feel offended because, look, I know I'm not. And I've got to, you know, it becomes your narrative. Well, you're kind of the least fascist or racist. Mate, I'm far from it. You know, I'm not into, you know, it doesn't really fucking matter. You know, what's going on within our country is quite shocking because we see it on the news a lot. We see it on channels, little small channels that I've got going on YouTube where, you know, the violence that's erupted within our communities is a lot more than it was back in the day.

1:58:41It's far more extreme now, isn't it? It's far more extreme, you know. And it comes from both sides. It's not like just, we can't just say it's this and it's that. You know, it comes from all over the place. But what I say to people is, when you're saying refugees are welcome here, right, I get it, but what about illegal migrants that are economically travelling from France to England, right, and then getting arrested for crimes, like unsavory crimes as well? How do you defend that? oh but we've got what about the people in here I said I'm saying we've got our own monsters we don't need to import others that's the issue we've got our own monsters here that we've got to deal with first but what we're doing is we can't even deal with them but we'll import others first on top of that so it's double the problem right it's a fucking no brainer my mum can't even get an appointment for the hospital you know she gets a phone call she's got to wait six weeks for the phone call back you know years ago the doctor had come to the house remember that yeah right you call a doctor you shit and he'd turn up in your house an hour later now you never see one you know and the thing is you see more than most because of your street journalism I mean you really are boots on the deck you put yourself in the most volatile situation so you've really got a good you've really got a good flavour of what's going on out there and it's channels like yours that people need to pay attention to because you don't shy away from any conversations or confrontations do you?

2:00:11No, no. You know, I believe if you shy away then you don't get what you need to, you know, you don't understand what people are going through. Do you come under any attack or any threats? Because a lot of you street journalists now are getting death threats. I say a lot of you, I mean, I can name a specific few that have been on the podcast and said they've been given Osman Morning's official letters by the police to say that your life's in danger and here, you know, we've got the evidence, be careful. Have you had any of them? No. It's because you take a different approach, isn't it? Yeah, I'm not a, I'm not here to hate on anyone or give anyone a hard time.

2:00:44Like I said, I've always respect people. If they respect me, I'll respect them. I'm willing to listen to someone's story. I'm probably on a different level. I think these are auditors, aren't they, most of these? Yes, that's true enough. See, I'm not an auditor. I don't go around looking for problems or issues. I'm just out there. I let the camera do the work. I'm very random. If I see someone, how are you? What's going on? tell us a little bit about the area whether they know or whether they don't whether they're willing or whether they're not it is what it is I don't force anyone to go on camera there's a lot of people out there that are struggling and that are in need of help I got a message this morning I'll show you after this where a young woman said to me thanks for that video you put on I've seen my brother on there we haven't seen him for years she explained why he was out there and they thought he was dead, you know, because he hadn't been in touch.

2:01:41And they were really grateful because some people go missing, they go off the radar, you know, they're out there for years. But because I'm in the thick of it and I'm in places where no one will go, you know, the most austere areas, or, you know, in the undergrowth where there's fucking tents, I mean, you go to Stoke and it's like, Stoke is an absolute mess. You know, I've been to campsites there's addicts on monkey dust just fucking bizarre fucking way of life just like communes Liverpool's like tent city at the minute Piccadilly Gardens Sheffield Pageall it's just like a fucking scrapyard Covency a lot of Afghans there that are very volatile and violent kicking off probably one of the most dangerous areas in the country I believe and that's not from people who live here either.

2:02:38Do you feel fulfilled now? Because I feel like when you're an addict, you're always chasing something new. Do you feel satisfied with what you're doing now? And content is the right word. Are you content with your work now? And where you're at? Well, let's put it this way, right? When I was diagnosed with a cancer and he said I couldn't have children, would I like to freeze my sperm cell and all that stuff? I wasn't even interested. that I tried to have kids with multiple women over the years that I'd met and fell in love with. And I thought they were the answer, we'll get kids settled down, have the house, have the car, the family will be okay.

2:03:15And that'll be me at peace with myself. And with the cancer treatment and the chemo, they said it was almost impossible to have any children. So I thought it's okay. I gave up on that, on the chance of ever having a family. and then I met this woman who I loved earlier and we've got these two wonderful little boys who are fucking great. I mean, it's just a different experience. I've got the chance to nurture, to be a dad, the opportunity to allow them to make their own decisions and never hit them and never be aggressive or violent or be that person that they're going to cower down to. So there's a happy ending to this story Yeah You know And even me dad To be fair You know I'll tell you What happened with me dad at the end You know My dad died of cancer And I got to play me dad in the movie Right Which He came to visit me In this scene In A Prayer Before John Which he never did by the way The director did say to me He said I've never been to see you in prison I went no He said Well he will in this one I went what do you mean He said We'd like you to play your father I was like You're joking You're joking And this is what he said to me, right?

2:04:32He said, right, French ears, believe. He said, what would you say to your father if you had the chance? What would you say to your son if you were your father? So I'm in this last scene within the Philippines now. This is where we're filming in this prison in Cebu. And it's five o 'clock in the morning. We're doing the last shot. Joe Cole comes in playing Billy Moore. So I'm getting ready, gearing myself up. The director's whispering in my ear, you know, that's your son. What are you going to say to him? What do you want to say to young Billy? And I was like, fuck it, I was choked up. and I went what was the only thing that I ever wanted to hear from my dad and here he is walking because I was angry you know I was angry and you could see I was explaining this to Joe you know this is how it feel and he came in and I also wanted to say I also did say or I tried to which I couldn't I couldn't even get the sense I was you know I love you that's what I wanted my dad to say to me so when when I seen him and all that's coming up all these feelings and it was real and I was looking into the eyes and I was picturing myself and I was like in my dad's shoes I couldn't say it because of the emotion and the director went cut and I went that was enough he said that was best left unspoken he said that was more powerful than actually having to say down words because I couldn't get it out you know what I mean and because every time it was just it was painful and that's what it is now so I've got these two wonderful little boys and you know you know I feel really grateful that I've got this life where you know I am clean I am in recovery they've never had to see me use you know I've got an opportunity to go out on the streets and inspire others to change you know whether they want to or not you know I'm giving them a little bit of hope I'm showing them that there's a light at the end of the tunnel that's time to be that beacon where I can go look I've been here I know what it's like have you seen my fucking life story I'm no better than you I'm no worse than you right and I'm not trying to pretend I'm anything different so for me you know I try and like treat everyone the same you know and yeah I have got an opinion about certain things and different views and opinions are like assholes we've all got them you know what I mean Liam it is what it is and I try not to fucking create any harm but I won't fucking take any shit at the same time Nah You know And that's just how it is for me You know I've got I've tolerated A few things And I'm quite patient Until I'm not I think you've been through too much To tolerate people's shit Because there's a lot of people out there That have lived very sheltered lives And you've seen things That make most people's fucking Hair fall out Yeah He says What would your final message be to the masses On a positive note On a positive note Maybe if they're struggling No direction No direction I always say this People say Well there's no one out there For me to reach out to Do you know what Right You know when you're In that dark place I hope you heal From the things That you don't want to talk about Because there's people Out there that Right Even myself I didn't want to talk about stuff And you know I'm not going to heal By By keeping it to myself It's all It's all like A secret And there's fear So I do want people out there Heal from what They don't want to talk about because for me, communication is key.

2:08:09Finding someone you can trust, be open with, someone that'll fucking shit with you and just listen instead of fucking trying to give you advice and fucking tell you what to do because that never works. It's just, you know, be there when no one else is. And that's it. I hope people enjoy this story because I haven't really enjoyed telling it, to be fair. Have you not? No, because I struggle. I get to a point where I feel really... Conscious? Yeah, and I feel quite emotional about, you know, some of the shit I've done, you know. My mum today, you know, she used to shut the door on me. She used to walk around with a handbag.

2:08:52You know, that's how bad it was, you know. She'd fucking always be sobbing. She'd tell me that she used to pray that I'd get arrested because she knew if I was in prison that I wasn't using. or in her head she thought it wasn't. Now, you know, she rings me up for advice, for guidance, support. My brother, you know, our job. Got to finish off on our job, haven't I? Joe, he's just, you know, he's got autism. He's blessed with autism. He's got a care in the world. The most loving kid you'll ever come across. And he's helped me become a better person, you know, by just sitting there and listening to him.

2:09:37So, yeah, I think I've shared a lot. You've covered it all. I have, yeah. And I'm very grateful that you shared your story with me because it's completely and utterly out of the ordinary, mind-blowing, and there's light at the end of the tunnel. And I do like a redemption story. And I think there's a lot of people in shit situations that if they listen to your story and where you are now, like a human bull with your shit together two lovely kids you can't wait to be there dad forever and you're clean I think it's going to give people hope and that's the purpose of these conversations so I'm very grateful you took the time to come here and share that with me and in return I'm now going to go and buy you some dinner and do you know what I wish I could interview people like you too lad you've got that like voice you know when me missus the voice note she goes I was like he's off the radio so well done thank you mate Thank you very much.

2:10:30Take care. I enjoyed it. As dark as it was, I enjoyed it and I'm grateful for it. Thank you. Cheers, brother.

2:10:40This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. Who says Halloween only lasts one day? With Wayfair, one night of Halloween becomes a whole season at home. From larger than life yard decor and moody lighting to festive accents for every room in the house, Wayfair has what you need to make Halloween feel like magic all in one place.

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