A Clint In The Eye (ft. guests Sam Riley; Hugh Bonneville & Allen Leech)

23:42Chris Hewitt:I don't know personally that I thought it was a yes or no, but I got it anyway. So there it was. there it was Clint having a threesome yeah why not and it's really charming The Mule as well I think I'm gonna go with Sully because I think that movie is really just like most of these movies really well made he's famously known for being such an economical director one, two, three takes maximum everyone on set knows their jobs it's a really quiet efficient set and and that sometimes comes across in the filmmaking and I think Tom Hanks is really good in that movie. We were doing a Tom Hanks ranking.

24:21Chris Hewitt:I don't think it would be in my top 10 and it wouldn't be in my Clint Eastwood top 10. But in this decade, I think Sully is, well, let's put it this way. If you said to me, I had to rewatch any of these movies right now, I would go Sully in this decade. I would go Sully over anything else. And Jersey Boys, I would go for a painful tooth extraction. Remember Sully when I said I would pick you last. I lied. and J. Edgar I can't get on with but Sully Sully is the one for me do you know what I might be with you on that I might be with you on that I think Sully is very enjoyable and as you say Hanks is great in it American Sniper I really wanted to like a lot more than I did and it wasn't just the demon baby he has a name you know it's Bradley Cooper

25:12maybe I should give it another go alright I'll give Sully another go

25:14Chris Hewitt:give Sully another go but he has not yet made the sequel Wazowski perhaps he hasn't done his paperwork anyway Bennett I think he found it too Mike Wazowski Mike Wazowski you haven't done your paperwork 2020s he has directed just two movies Cry Macho in which he starred and then Juror Number 2 which came out last year two films to choose from Juror Number 2 Easy Choice it's clearly that one it's clearly Juror Number 2 yeah which is I think it's really good it is good I really, really liked it. And it might, if we were doing a Clint Eastwood directorial top 10 ranking type thing, it would be knocking on the door of the 10 for me.

25:55Yeah.

25:55Chris Hewitt:Below Dirty Harry. Just below Dirty Harry. Yeah, just between Dirty Harry and other movies he didn't direct.

26:04Chris Hewitt:Unbelievable. All right, there we go. Happy enough? Yeah. I hope that pleased everyone. An actual conversation about films broke out in between all the genital talk. We do try and avoid those where possible. I know. I feel icky I feel icky oh so icky oh boy please never sing West Side Story in my presence alright shall we have a guest yes let's who do you want do you want Sam Riley or yes yeah okay Sam Riley you're late with the yeses I'm sorry your timing is off Sam Riley returning to the Empire Podcast I love Sam Riley he's great to talk to wonderful English actor who burst to fame in Control playing Ian Curtis of Joy Division in 2007.

26:48Chris Hewitt:That was his very, very first movie. Unbelievable. Nowadays, he is living in Germany with his wife, Alexandra Maria Lara. And he's not making as many movies in England these days. And he's the star of this week's Islands, which is a German movie in which he plays a washed-up, burnt-out tennis pro turned tennis coach at a hotel. An English family comes into his life and things start to unravel from there and it becomes all very mysterious and maybe a little bit noir-y as well. So I went along yesterday, as a matter of fact, to the BFI South Bank in London to have a chat in its green room with Sam Riley, who was on tremendous form, as always.

27:38Chris Hewitt:Love talking to him. And I hope you enjoy listening to this. Do please enjoy. We are delighted to be joined on the Emperor Podcast by the Star of Islands, returning to the Emperor Podcast, Sam Reilly. How are you, sir? I'm good, Chris. Good to be back. It's good to have you here. I've never done an interview here before. We're in the green room at the BFI. Surrounded by cool film posters. Cool film posters signed by directors. There's an exorcist one over there signed by Billy Friedkin. Bones and all. Looking around the room, is there anything here you've gone up for? I've worked with Ray. There's a nearby mouth.

28:13Okay, there's nobody else. Yeah. No, sadly, they didn't come for me to play Elvis. Red Lighting Trilogy? That wasn't one that came calling for you? Actually, I was offered that. Okay. I went to go and shoot a movie. At the same time, I was offered a lead role in an American film. And I thought, oh, well, that's the right thing to do. And that, you can probably sense where this is going. That film was a film called 13 with... Ray, Jason Statham, Mickey Rourke, 50 Cent, or 2 Bob, as Ray called him, and Ben Gazzara's last movie, killing the Chinese bookie and everything. I adore talking to him. Oh, my God.

28:58He once said one morning to Jason, he didn't realize who any of us were. We were nobodies. All of us to him. He just said to Jason, get me a tuna sandwich. And so Jason wouldn't have gotten him a tuna sandwich. it was the wildest i can't really i i should there's so many stories from this film set things i couldn't believe i was seeing and and uh in the end the director fell out with the producers and the movie never came out as you know things turn out all right for andrew garfield uh and for me in the end but we i was actually two years after the film was shot i was in a pub with my dad in Menston in West Yorkshire.

29:42And a guy came in with the pirate DVDs. And my dad is flicking through them. This is absolutely true. And I was like, Dad, you know, this is, you know, you're screwing the film business. And then he went, oh, my God. And he picked out 13. I was in there. I'd never seen it. It was two years after I shot it. It wasn't my big American break as I'd hoped. So we went home after the pub and watched it for the first time on DVD with my parents. And was the quality pristine or had it been filmed in a cinema over someone's shoulder? Well, it had never played in a cinema. So no? No, it was all right. And then it came out on DVD in England.

30:24It did eventually come out. It did eventually come out, yeah. But what did you think when you were sat there watching a pirate copy with your dad? It was a lesson in not to expect anything. in the future of what you're doing and enjoy the moment of doing it you know i've i've got i've i've had some great stories about mickey and going out for a night out i mean i you know i went out for a night out with mickey ray and jason right in new york that that do you remember stuff of legend okay okay did it did any of that inform tom's nights out sadly what a segue my god wow wow I like when you did that.

31:04In Ireland, yeah. Yes, in a way it did. You know, without this turning into a share, I no longer drink anymore. And, you know...

31:13Chris Hewitt:It could all be traced back to that. It could all be traced back. I mean, it was before that from Leeds playing in a rock and roll band. But I was in the height of my career there, luckily. I luckily, you know, could play with the big boys at that time. No, I play a washed-up tennis coach in this movie. And the washed up middle aged guy who never fully reached his potential was the easiest part of the job. The never having played tennis before in my life was my sole fear focus. Were you, because you kind of got a, you stole a march, didn't you, on the script because you live in Berlin and so you managed to get, you had feelers out.

31:57we shared an agent and he sent me the script said this is about to go out to um probably andrew and fuzzbender and and um and robert pattinson but you know they've not read it yet and i read it and i was terrified as i was reading it that that this was going to go to someone else i really you knew you could you could do it i knew i could do it i knew i desperately wanted to do it it's a lead role i hadn't done a lead role like that for quite a long long time and janola and i both live in berlin my wife grew up there um i've been there 18 years so i got his number and i've never worn a baseball cap on backwards my whole life i don't think and i arrived at our first meeting he met me for a coffee dressed as tom pretty much i'd never done that before i'd heard of actors doing this sort of thing i ended up wearing those clothes in the film i wasn't in a tennis shorts or anything but i was in like sort of you know sporty guy and um yeah and he said i have a three-day rule you know i think he was probably still hoping uh for someone else but um you know so like on a first date you don't tell them you adore them straight away if you've got any sense so we talked about a lot of other stuff and films and then we had a second day where i said okay i really want to do this i love this character i love that we love the same sorts of films and then the third day he took me to a tennis court there was a tennis coach there who hit some balls at me i think he needed to see that i wasn't completely mal coordinated and and they sort of said to the tennis coach you know they said um you know what what do you think and they said well how long have you got and they said three months and he said yeah you know it could work okay because it's not a tennis movie per se for people who haven't seen the film yet it's not we're not talking wimbledon here or challenges but you do need to still have that facility yeah and yeah it's a physicality of it there's one you know he's he's he's called ace on the island and this is kind of like a burden it sounds cool there's a legend that that many years ago tom played a superstar tennis player who happens to be spanish on the island and aced him five times out of ten or something i think and so everyone calls him ace and it sounds cool but it's a permanent reminder of a glory in the past that is faded almost completely out of existence i suppose yeah so the sir there was going to be a moment in the movie where i had to serve and uh and so we went i i met tennis coaches at a local tennis club he was called yaris laugh who was my service coach and we worked many hours on this he was a very dry chap he he he never paid me a single compliment the whole three months we were doing this that's not entirely accurate he would say if i i mean for me and this was the miracle if i actually threw it up you know which is the hardest part and the most crucial the toss the toss yeah uh and hit it well and it went in on the other side he would say clean like that and i lived for these for these cleans these little crumbs these little morsels of encouragement yeah but you know i stole things from guys that were there the cool thing about the tennis is that i took my son with me because i coach a young boy there's a young boy in the movie and he plays tomorrow in fact he plays He really loves it.

35:50Oh, but this wasn't his inciting incident, so to speak. He'd been playing beforehand? No, he'd never played. No, he'd never played. Oh, wow. So this movie turned... Yeah, he's good and he enjoys it.

36:00Chris Hewitt:What's his signature shot? He's into the slice at the moment. So he's trying to hit everything like that. What's the Sam Riley signature shot? Just anything that goes over the net? I just... Yeah, pretty much anything clean. and you're happy enough but but that side of things aside this was a character you felt you saw parts of yourself in or you you echoed you in some way yeah i think yeah i mean you know without going into too much detail there's certainly the lack that that that sort of cycle of uh the vicious circle of um you know of of escape of trying to escape from yourself. I'm aware of that type of thing, and I won't go into it.

36:53But the other - We have a couch if you want to lay down here. Yeah. I'll let it all out here for the Empire Readers. Yeah. And I think a lot of us at our age as well, you can find yourself thinking, is this it? What if I'd have done this? Or is this really what I wanted to do? Or did I miss this opportunity? Have I fully reached the potential that I maybe showed at a young time. And this thing that the characters find very difficult in this film is to talk to each other, to communicate with each other, to say there's so many things. He's saying, just tell him or tell her or do this, and they don't.

37:33I thought that was really real in this.

37:38Chris Hewitt:There's an amazing scene where you're in a police station and the camera pushes in on you as Tom has this moment of epiphany. And then the camera's just locked in your face. And that, I imagine, is a very difficult style of acting as well, externalizing the internal. But not giving too much away to the other people in the room as well, but having to give the audience just enough to know that, oh, Tom has realized something, the penny is beginning to drop for this guy. I love that. I really, I don't know. I think it's certainly the sorts of things that I really adore playing. Yeah. I remember there was a moment when we were filming a scene in Control with Samantha Morton, who's an incredible actress, and it was my first film.

38:24And there was a scene where she finds out that I've been cheating. And there was a scene, it was a lot of dialogue and conversation back and forth. And she just said, this is so eggy, eggy dialogue. And she says, you know, she said, have you ever cheated on anyone? And I thought, well, I am. And she said, have you ever been confronted by it? What did you say? I said, I don't think I've said anything. And she said, go out of the room. So I went out of the room, and then I came back in the room, and she confronted me with this fact in her own way. And as she got more and more upset, we sort of moved.

38:59She backed me up into a corner, and I didn't say anything. And then when she left the room and slammed the door, I just burst into tears. and I couldn't believe, you know, that I was capable, I couldn't believe I was capable of it. Yeah. And it was thanks to her being as good as she was and her intuitive as she was that I suddenly thought, my God, we said it, you know, it was all there and I didn't say, didn't need to say anything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's like, and supposedly bringing it back to tennis, you know, like if you're playing someone better than you, you play better. and it's not about point scoring, but there is like a back and forth like that.

39:42So I realized the power of, and the joy of like not saying stuff.

39:48Chris Hewitt:Sam, I'm going to let you go in a second. Not least because you're about to head back to Berlin. I am. You are. And you display, I mean, my God, you're multilingual. So did you know Spanish before you took this movie on? No, no, I learned the bits of Spanish that were required. And there was a Spanish crew who like, I mean I can speak a bit when I'm on holiday I speak German because I live there Okay And I suppose that Fluently? Are you fluent in German? My son would say nine Out of what? Oh my god I have to tell my German What did Freud say came between fear and sex? Fumf

40:28That's good I got a C at GCSE German So yeah That's not wasted on me No okay that's nice but I suppose that opened up something in the brain to like and my wife's Romanian so I can speak that a little bit or understand when they're talking about me you had me fooled speaking of your wife you worked together on a film we can't talk about too much but Ben Wheatley's new movie Bulk and that film Jesus Christ hopefully you'll be back in the podcast when it comes out that is one of the wildest things I've ever seen what was it like for people who don't know you filmed it essentially in a house we shot it in a house in a brighton film school over the course of two weeks uh it's a neo-noir sci-fi romance shot using old science old old um special effects techniques models yeah i used my wife and noah taylor play all multiple characters i mostly playing myself um we it was incredible i mean we you know i've if it wasn't for ben i wouldn't work in uh british cinema really uh so when he rang and saying i've got this idea for the two of you we do we alexandra was in colin bursted as well yes we we were absolutely thrilled i think like Alphaville with an iPhone, maybe.

41:58That's a great description. That is phenomenal. It's a brain buster. It is. It is what it is. But one of the things I love about it, again, we'll talk about it hopefully when the movie comes out, but is that the dialogue was all recorded post-sync as well? So you have this weird… There wasn't enough room in the house for a sound crew.

42:18Chris Hewitt:I love it. I spoke to Ben at length for the magazine recently. Yeah. I mean, all the Italian, you know, as he was telling me when we were talking about it, he's like, you know, all the Italian, you know, La Notte and all of these great, La Dolce Vita, it's all post-sync. So, you know, so that's, and they came to Berlin to do it, you know, just on the excuse to come to Berlin. And we did it in Babelsberg in one of the old sound studios where they'd done that in the old days. It was great. Sam, one last thing before I let you go. You said there, apart from Ben, you wouldn't work in Britain very much.

42:48Chris Hewitt:Why is that? It's not out of choice. And I just worked with Charlotte Reagan Who did She's done a really cool BBC thing Oh fantastic She's a massive interesting talent And very cool And No but I worked with Jamie Adams Who's a fantastic Welsh guy Who does all these improvised films But I worked a lot with European actors And more in Germany recently And sadly they're not coming out over here So I can tell you they're exceptional without you being able to to counter it amazing so are we putting out the call to casting agents anyone listening to this any directors listening to this you are willing yeah I'm willing and available to work better than ever alright make sure your phone is not on silent because it's about to start fucking ringing yeah man Sam Riley it's been a pleasure man cheers always a pleasure thanks thank you okay that was Sam Riley talking about Islands which is out in cinemas right now Go and check it out, folks.

43:51Chris Hewitt:It is really good and well worth your time. All right, should we talk about movie news? Let's. What has been happening in the world of movie news? Well, there were some quite cool trailers this week. I don't know why the first one coming to mind is The Rip, but it is. No, neither do I. Although it does look quite good. It was really good. I think it's good. This is Matt Damon and Ben Affleck together at last again. Matt Damon. And playing possibly corrupt question mark, cops question mark. No, they are. Definitely corrupt. Definitely corrupt. Who basically stumble across a larger than expected cache of cash.

44:30A cash cash. A cash cash. Wow. And have to, well, figure out what to do with it, but also survive all the other people who would like a slice of it, slash all of it. It looks really fun. I'm here for it. It's a Netflix film, so it's going to be out there in January.

44:45Chris Hewitt:It's not just a Netflix film, though, Hells Bells. It is a Joe Carnahan film. It is also a Joe Carnahan film, yes. Which is usually caused for celebration because he's a very, very good director, especially good action director, re-teaming with Ben Affleck, of course. They've worked together in the past. First time with Matt Damon, I believe. He's hiring Matt Damon. Joe Carnahan has taken to social media and said that he believes it's his best movie. So I'm excited about that. I'm in for that. It's unfortunate the styling of the title because it's all caps, the typeface they use. So most people have previously been referring to this as the RIP but it is of course the RIP as in rip off so it is just the word RIP the RIP even IMDb has it as the RIP with the capital R possibly they won't have both in there yeah maybe they die at the beginning and the whole thing is an afterlife tale who knows I suspect not all the characters in this will make it out at the end of the film but it looks real fun it's going to be out in January right so that's not too long to wait and there's a moment in this Scott Adkins is in this movie as well so I'm looking forward to Scott Adkins and Ben Affleck being in the same scene together perhaps they'll just point at each other like the Spider-Man meme which could be a lot of fun or maybe Scott Adkins will kick on unreasonable and because it's January unseasonable amount of ass yeah maybe he will yeah speaking of seasons did you see the Jonas Brothers Christmas movie?

46:08no oh my god oh no and that's not just because I was deliberately avoiding it I'm just as the host of a Christmas movies podcast I'm just delighted Helen, Helen, Helen. We do not, under any circumstances, promote other podcasts on this show. And you know better. You know better. I'm so sorry. Hey, do you like Sully? Because it's about a pilot. Hey. That's exactly why I like it. That's why you like Firefox as well, isn't it? There's a theme here. See, my plugs for Pilot become much more subliminal. Yes. I'm solely pushing films about pilots. I hate subliminal posts. Don't listen to Pilot. Anyway, there's a Christmas movie with the Jonas Brothers.

46:47it's called A Very Jonas Christmas and if you're into stupid looking Christmas movies this is a treat. Isn't there a film called A Very Lowen Christmas? No. Am I making that up? Was that a song? She's made a couple of Christmas movies. I need to Google it.

47:00Chris Hewitt:You're making this up. A Very Lowen Christmas. And this is the Jonas Brothers? This is the Jonas Brothers trying to get home. Alvin, Simon and Theodore? Theodore, yes. Trying to get home for Christmas from the UK. Because they all live in the same house? Well, I mean, they do have like at least one of their actual wives is playing their actual wife on screen. So there's a Priyanka Chopra Jonas. I mean, if you're married to Priyanka Chopra Jonas, you get her in your movie, right? You would hope that you could get her on the phone. Yeah, on the phone at the very least. It would be a terrible shame if you couldn't.

47:37Chris Hewitt:Blimey. All right, well, that's exciting. I'm not sure that's the biggest thing. I would argue that the best trailer this week was for Rian Johnson's Wake Up Dead Man, colon, and Knives Out Mystery. Yes, that's what I was also trying to get to. Yes, which looks absolutely wonderful. Yes. So, so, so excited about this. This is opening the London Film Festival as well, so very excited about that. And it has a very different vibe. I mean, obviously, Glass Onion had a different vibe to the original, but it has a very gothic, slightly spooky vibe, you know, brings to mind a slightly madcap haunting in Venice.

48:10Do you know what I mean? it has that slightly different feel to it. But really exciting. It's funny. It's great. Yeah. Very, very, very exciting to see what Josh O 'Connor does with his Swery Priest.

48:21Chris Hewitt:Yes, because... So this is an all-star cast. This trailer seems to reveal who dies. I'm not going to reveal it or who's killed. I'm not going to reveal it in case you haven't seen the trailer. But it's an all-star cast. So who do we have in there? We have Josh O 'Connor. We have Glenn Close. We have Kerry Washington. Josh Brolin. Jeremy Renner. Mila Kunis. Mila Kunis. Andrew Scott loads of people are in this and as you say it feels like a much darker more serious but still funny yeah well that's the thing because it's darker and more serious and then there's a bit towards the end where Joshua Connors goes off on a rant which is really really funny it's great yeah and thinking okay okay we're in safe hands here yeah I still bump up against this and I believe it annoys Rian Johnson as well that it's called a Knives Out mystery it should be called a Benoit Blanc mystery that the character now has the cultural cachet to do that.

49:14But this was a glass onion thing, wasn't it? Netflix were clearly very keen to make it abundantly clear that this was a follow-on from Knives Out. So we are now locked into this nonsense nomenclature. We are. The algorithm strikes again. We're burying the lead, I think, in quite a big way this week because there has been one bit of seismic news this week. Many, many beloved actors, you know, unfortunately do eventually retire from their time on screen. But it takes something very special, something momentous to tempt someone out of retirement once they've hung up their spurs. Michael Caine, at 92 years old, has come out of retirement.

49:51There's only one thing that could have brought him back. It must be The Odyssey, right? The Last Witch Hunter 2, Helen. That's a funny name. It's the film we've all been waiting for. I'm only going to come out of retirement for one person. And that one person is Finn Diesel. It's Vin Diesel. I don't understand the world right now I don't I genuinely don't so bear in mind it's what 10 years old The Last Witch Hunter at this point yeah it's really hard to tell because I haven't been keeping track of The Last Witch Hunter genre classic that it is Vin Diesel who did wonders for thigh length coats and whatever that wig was on his head and the beard as well do you remember the beard I do not

50:29Chris Hewitt:oh it was extraordinary extraordinary film I remember only one thing about The Last Witch Hunter I actually for some reason and I guess everyone else was unavailable and turned it down. I hosted the premiere of that. I did. And it was everybody was there, and everyone came on, and they did a little introduction before the screening began. And I made a Dungeons & Dragons gag in front of Vin Diesel, who promptly schooled me, because I got it wrong. You got it wrong. I got it wrong. And he promptly schooled me in front of 800 people. But, you know, that's fine. I don't know what I'm talking about.

51:01Chris Hewitt:About anything, at the best of times. so I remember that that stuck in my head that because I went did you roll the dice the six sided dice he went 20 sided dice yeah and I went it would be a 20 sided dice family and that was his answer it was amazing but yeah it was fun I had a good time I think Michael Caine was there well clearly isn't it weird that I don't remember that yeah was Michael Caine there was Michael Caine there I can't remember but anyway he was in the movie and he will be in the sequel as was Elijah was Elijah Wood in that one was he in that one I don't remember Elijah Wood was in it was he?

51:34Elijah Wood was in that oh yes he was I know Rose Leslie was in it but and Darry Olufsen's in it but other than that I don't remember I remember very little about it the coat and the hair were really the only things that stuck in my memory it was in New York question mark? because it flipped about from modern times to you know who ancient days who wants this? well we need to answer that crucial question which witch is the worst witch and I think this will tell us no the worst witch is pretty good actually but this sounds like rubbish. Yeah. I don't know. Was the Acuna's in it? Yeah. Oh. The Worst Witch, clearly.

52:09Wow. I, why is this happening? I don't know. Doesn't, why? Is that the subtitle? The Last Witch Hunter? Why is this happening? It is, it has been 10 years. I will say that this film, and this is very much my bag, let's be honest. It is my bag also. It has not lived long in the memory, nor has it been really crying out for another installment. And yet Michael Caine disagrees. I mean, and fair play to him. I just, I don't, I don't know, I don't know what's happening. I just, like, it should be something that I like. I even like a stupid Vin Diesel movie. You know this about me. I do. I have watched many Fast and Furious movies on occasions when I did not have to watch them.

52:48All right, let's look. Let's look up. This might be just, I am... I'm going to look up the official Empire review of The Last Witch Hunter. Oh, Lord. I am 90-ish percent sure. I probably wrote. I can't find it. It's not there. I think it's been I think it's been redacted. I think it's been expunged from the record. It's too dangerous for the public to see. They've sealed it. It's been redacted. 75 years from now. It'll be unsealed. Because it's eternal so it's going to be back to fight more witch last witch hunter review. Something like that.

53:23Chris Hewitt:Maybe Michael Caine read it and you were unflattering towards him and then he had it removed. I need to come out of retirement and have that man from Empire write me another bloody review yeah that's probably what happens that doesn't seem like how he spends his time I think well how would you spend your time if you retired if I was Michael Cain I would spend my time with my feet up earning a well deserved rest I'm playing bloody FIFA that's how I would do it and he wouldn't be one of those EA Sport FC 25 guys he'd be proper hardcore old school FIFA alright here's a couple of last things to talk about James Gunn has confirmed further details about Superman Superman Man of Tomorrow he has confirmed that the plot will see Superman played by David Cornswit and Lex Luthor played by Nicholas Holt team up to take on a bigger threat I called this last week I said it was going to happen and it's happening do you think he didn't have that in his plans until he until he heard me I think that's 100 % I don't know what to do with this story where am I going let me just have a little bit of light listening skip through all the stuff about genitals blah blah blah oh here's an interesting bit oh wow Clint Eastwood directed Dirty Harry he's listening to this week's podcast last week he is good and then he's like blah blah blah oh my goodness Helena Harrah has nailed it what if I had them team up to fight and possibly kiss possibly kiss I mean if you think about it their portmanteau name would be sex and somebody pointed that to me in beauty.

55:03I don't get it. James, you did indeed write the review for The Last Witch Hunter. Hey, what did I give it? It's on Romans Maddox. You gave it a splat. Did I give it a star rating? It doesn't, yes, two out of five. Aww. That was harsh of me. Read a line, read a line, click on it. No, I can't click through because the page doesn't exist. Because it's been expunged. Mother of pearl. Diesel is comfortably watchable as the unstoppable immortal. when not chewing on hand-me-down wookie chin fuzz. But even his rumbling charms can't save this, nor justify its sequel bait sign-off. Well, they're going to justify its sequel bait sign-off now, aren't they?

55:40It does. It does have a sequel bait sign-off. See, that's, do you know what it is? Does it? I think, yeah, apparently, it says in the official M.I.R. review, I think that's it. I think Michael Caine cannot handle a dangling modifier, and I think that's what that class, he was just like, genuinely, he's at home, he's tossing, he's turning, he can't sleep he's like I need to know how the story ends Vin Vin oh that's right I remember how it ends now he goes I'll see you in 10 years

56:07but I tell you what

56:08Chris Hewitt:Jimbo I am a huge fan of Diesel yeah What's diesel? Oh, I see. Yes, what's diesel? Diesel nuts. No. Okay. I don't understand. Hey, remember we were talking last week about how The Conjuring Last Rites was coming out and was probably going to be the last country movie? That's right, because it's called The Conjuring Last Rites. Yeah. It's baked in. And they've talked about it being the last case for Ed and Lorraine Warren and they have no more grifts, no more contract, no more... Damn it, it's so weird. I can't get through the sentence. So weird. Yeah. no more hustle what's the word? cases no more cases for them to pretend that they cracked for them to crack why is it that mean?

56:53but then it made the official word

56:57Chris Hewitt:is a shit ton of cash at the global box office last weekend it made 189 million dollars around the world which may not seem like a lot to you and I but is a lot to James Wan and the people of Warner Brothers. And yeah, I am not surprised to hear that they've already started talking about a prequel movie and there's a country and TV series, which was already in the works, admittedly, but they're not going to stop there, right? They're going to make another one. Because it's huge. It's made like twice what people thought it was going to make. Yeah, it's how many more are there going to be? None.

57:31No, the none's already been done. You can do a sequel to that if you want. Yeah. Isn't this like one of if... Okay, so Boyd, who is listening to the podcast. Hi, Boyd. Boyd made a statement on Pilot Bridge that this is the most successful horror franchise in movie history don't listen to the Pilot Podcast is that true? what? is Boyd lying? is Boyd lying? yeah probably about most things is it the most successful horror franchise in movie history? that was his that was his I think it depends how you define horror or indeed success or franchise no but like I feel like the Resident Evil movies made a lot of money for example Evil I don't know

58:08Chris Hewitt:They wouldn't have got close to. I don't think any of them even got close to what this did in the Top of the Weekend. And if you look at the It chapter one and chapter two, both of those movies made like a lot of money. So, but that's a two movie franchise. I would have thought Paranormal Activity. Well, again, if you're talking about... That's profitability. Yeah, correlation between budget and profit. Yeah, Halloween was huge in that regard. Blair Witch, obviously, as well. But yeah, I'd say that this is up there, definitely. I mean, so just to put it, like, Resident Evil has made 1.28 billion.

58:42Resident Evil. Thank you. Yeah. So I feel like that's a good starting point. I don't know where The Conjuring meta franchise is. Or how much The Last Wish Hunter made. We don't know. That could be it. You know, I put it to you, as I put it to Boyd, The Conjuring's success is interesting to me, because those films are fine. But they're not great, are they? I'm not saying they're bad, but they're not great. When you think classic horror... No, the first two are really good. I mean, The Enfield Haunting is the second one, isn't it?

59:13Chris Hewitt:Well, it's not called The Enfield Haunting, but that's basically what it is. Is that really great? I mean, it's okay. It's not brilliant. It's really good. They are putting The Conjuring at 2.6 billion worldwide. Who's they? This is like, I'm looking on Wikipedia at the moment, but if we're including not just The Conjuring, but also The Annabelles and The Nuns and so on, apparently that does get us to 2.6. with Alien at only 1.99 with much higher budgets. So, I mean, he does seem to be onto something possibly. Right, Boydie, we'll let you off the hook. Yeah. I honestly did not see this coming.

59:47Chris Hewitt:I felt that this franchise had farted at its last and was just sitting around waiting for someone to put it out of its misery. But now, people must have been loving it. I imagine it's huge on the gram. Yeah, I don't know that all of this is necessarily adjusted for inflation, but yeah. No, it's not. but it's still very well done well done The Conjuring because they've all made well the last one made 200 million I mean this one's already soared past it it's probably going to be the biggest in the franchise so well done it well done Annabelle the Creepy Doll oh damn it yes yeah but anyway okay there we go well that's exciting well done everybody shall we have a second guest sure shall we have a group of guests or a pair oh okay well yeah a duo a duo Hugh Bonneville Alan Leach name a more iconic duo what's happening I do I do very much enjoy your your niche niche niche niche my favourite philosopher anyway liar liar liar I'm staring into the bits right now we all know my favourite philosopher is Tinky Winky anyway enough about Helen hitting you in the bollocks anyway I did feel I did feel dipsy afterwards that's for sure I was trying to think I was po-faced there we go la la there we go okay what are we talking about Downton Abbey the grand finale or is it Downton Abbey Last Rites is out this week and it sees Ed and the Rain Warren travel to Downton Abbey to exercise Lord Grantham the Earl hang on I'm going to try to see if I've picked anything up and watched this movie the Earl of Crawley?

1:01:33No, you bellend. The Earl of Grantham? He is the seventh Earl of Grantham. Robert Crawley. He's Robert and Crawley. That's it. Lord Grantham to you and me. Sorry, Lord Grantham. I should genuflect in his general direction. Anyway, they've been cranking Downton Abbey's out for years now, haven't they? It was on the, what do you call it? The small cinemas that you have in your TV. The television.

1:01:53Chris Hewitt:Yeah, the televisions. Don't listen to the TV podcast. And that was successful for a while, wasn't it? They enjoyed that. Yeah, for six seasons. Yeah. Series, because it's British. Julian Fellows Hell Fellows well met he was the creator and writer of all that and then it expanded got a promotion you could even say James because as we all know the big screen is superior to the small I mean so three Downton films have been wrought and this is the third a holy trilogy final this is this is in many ways the third Downton Abbey movie and they're all back they are all of them apart from the ones who are not with us anymore both in the world of the show and indeed in real life and when I say lay the ones we were talking to this week are Hugh Bonifill who plays the Earl of Grantham yes and Alan Leach yes from the X-Men who plays Tom Tom the Irish fella yeah who former chauffeur former chauffeur he was was he in the IRA or something like that he had shall we say revolutionary tendencies he had revolutionary we should all have revolutionary tendencies in regard to this darn show come on revolutionary tendencies anyway so they're back back back Tom the chauffeur and no longer the chauffeur no longer the chauffeur he has graduated father to Sibby father to Sibby father of a mother Sibby husband of a mother ghost wow and he is back back back and who did we send along to do this James because you are the biggest Downton Abbey fan I know I don't know anyone who could even hold that handled you in terms of your Downton Abbeyness.

1:03:32And yet you were unavailable. I was. I was coming back from my extreme jolly. I mean, I was returning from an essential work assignment. You were having a massage probably at the time that this happened.

1:03:43Chris Hewitt:And I said, I don't know who we can get to do this. And you went Boyd. I did. Boyd Hilton. So folks, what you're about to hear now is, I think, unprecedented. Have you listened to the interview, Chris? No, I haven't. Because it's fascinating. He starts every question with, do you listen to the Pilot TV podcast? The Pilot TV podcast is fascinating. It's really just Boyd talking about Pilot. That's how you would do it, and that's why I'm glad that you were unavailable to listen to the Pilot TV podcast. And so Boyd, Boyd Hilton, is making his Empire podcast debut here. This could all go horribly wrong.

1:04:17If Boyd sounds like he's been overdubbed in a Northern Irish accent, then you'll know what's happened. We should say, Boyd regularly listens to this podcast while going to sleep. So I'm just going to say, Boyd, wake up. You're about to do your interview. Boyd, don't listen to the pilot TV podcast. Here you go. Do please enjoy. Hugh and Alan, welcome to the Empire podcast. How are you doing? Very good. Nice to see you. Excited about the... Now, the title of the final Downton Abbey movie is The Grand Finale. That's really setting you up, isn't it, for a situation where you have to stick the landing.

1:04:47And do you believe, when you got the script for this final film in the trilogy, do you think, oh yeah, this is a good way of ending it? Oh, absolutely, I did. And this really has been made, well, it was made with the audience in mind hugely this time, I think. Rather than trying to break new ground, it was really bringing all the sort of, all the storylines that have been out there, bringing them home to roost. So it's got a much more domestic feel than it might otherwise have done. But it actually feels complete. I wasn't sure at first if that was the right tempo, the right tone, but actually it feels completely right and pertinent.

1:05:18I'm happy with Tom's storyline in the film. Very much so. I think he has always been a kind of signal for change within the story from the very start. And the fact that he comes in as a voice of reason as well is very important for the finishing of his story and for his acceptance and his role within the family. And I really loved how it ends, and I feel it is very much a full stop and a finish point for his character journey. Going back 15 years when the show first started on ITV, It felt like a completely unusual show for ITV to be doing. It wasn't particularly, like period dramas weren't particularly in fashion at that point.

1:05:56Do you remember kind of that first episode and going on set for the first time, Hugh, and what it felt like? What did you think of the show itself in those early days? I can remember reading the script. In fact, Alan and I were both doing a film that Julian Fellows had written and directed called From Time to Time with Maggie Smith. And I think half a cast of the future down to map. And chatting to him in the garden of his house one day, where we were filming and asking him about what he had on the cards coming up next. And he described a couple of projects that he was writing, including, he said, I'm doing also while I'm revisiting the world of Gosford Park.

1:06:30He told the briefest of outlines. I said, that sounds really interesting. And then when the script, you know, he said, well, I'll send it to you when it's ready. And about, you know, nine months later, the script came through. And, you know, I can remember thinking the characters are so vivid. They really jumped off the page. I could see them in my mind's eye, whereas often you read a script and they're interchangeable. This was absolutely, you know, Mrs. Patmore really spoke differently to Lady Mary. You could hear it. You could see it. And then equally, I wanted to know what happened next. I got to the final page and thought, damn, I want to know.

1:06:59And I think that translated into the production itself and into the viewer's experience. They got hooked because of its sort of soap-like pace and variety of character and identifiable character. But early on, none of us knew. None of us knew what we were embarking upon. Even Gareth Neem, our boss, I remember saying, well, yes, I know we've got a three-year option on you, but don't forget you'll be out after season one because these things don't return. And the rest is history. And you kind of arrived halfway through series one, I seem to remember. Do you remember your first day on set and what you had to do?

1:07:34I absolutely do. And I still have my cover letter that came. That's how old it was. It got couriered out. The signs got couriered to me. That's how long ago. And I have his name and Michelle Dockery and Maggie Smith, and they were all written on the cover letter. And I remember being so excited by that as the prospect of being part of it. But yeah, I remember my first day, my first scene was with Hugh in the library when he got introduced to the new chauffeur for the family. And he was, I have to say, very, very, very warm and welcoming for someone who I was absolutely terrified, you know, going on to this set.

1:08:09And also when you walk onto a set that's already well-oiled and working, and when you come in, sometimes it can feel very alien. But Hugh, as we all have whenever anyone joined, made me feel incredibly comfortable and welcome, and it was very special. And do you remember when it went beyond just being a hit TV show and became a cultural phenomenon? I think it became an incredible success. Do you remember, was there a moment where you think, oh, yeah, it really hit home that this is something huge? Well, in the UK, I can remember it was about episode five or six, and I was picking up my son from school.

1:08:44He was then about nine. and this kid in the playground coming up and saying, I don't like that, Thomas. And I thought, what are you doing? You should be in bed at 9 o 'clock on a Sunday night. And we began gradually to realise the demographic was broader in every direction than one had perhaps anticipated. And then when we got to New York, I can remember the first time that we publicised the show there, and this was before it had gone out on PBS, and we were in a big theatre with, I don't know, 300 or 400 people. And I said, how many people here have actually seen the show? and about 25 % put there, I mean, they'd pirated it.

1:09:19And this tended to be young people again. So you realise that it wasn't just the armchair PBS masterpiece audience. There was something new happening and it began to creep up on us gradually over the following year or so. Yeah. Also, I think it hit us all when, I think it was Michelle came back. One day she came running up with her phone and said, we've been parodied on Jimmy Fallon. Oh, wow. And when that, I was like, oh, my God, it's massive, The fact that the show has that much relevance that it can be put out to a much wider audience and people can get the gags. This, if it is the final think time, thing we see of Downton, I read he said that maybe there'll be a different, there'll be a spin-off that could be.

1:10:01Never say never, he's kind of saying. But when you're watching, there are certain events that happen in the film. For example, the very first shot I thought was a very ambitious cinematic shot, almost like a one-er takes us through Soho and Piccoli Circus and goes to the theatre where Noel Coward's play is running. It felt like a kind of really ambitious way to begin the final chapter, if you like. Was that there in the script? What did it feel like to see that back the first time? Oh, it was. It was great. And in fact, the theatre bit was later on originally. And I think I can take credit in saying I think you should open with the play and get us straight into a bit of action in the city.

1:10:40But that opening shot, I stood there and I haven't even talked to Simon about where and how they shot it. That was shot in the studios where we shot down near Richmond. Oh, was it? Okay. But it was brilliant. And it was all done green screen in the back lot. Wow. That's amazing. But anyway, it works brilliantly and gets us straight into the heart of the action and the culture of the time. Yes. And then for those who know their theatre and their stage history, we'll get this little buzz of, oh, my gosh, there's an old coward. How lovely. And the idea that he actually feeds off his experience of meeting these characters to write his next play is really lovely.

1:11:14Yeah, it's fantastic. There's storylines and obviously there's such a huge cast as ever in Down to like 22 kind of fully detailed characters but there's also stuff that neither of you are in. For most of the time, for example, thinking of the County Fair storyline which feels like Simon Russell Beale is hilarious. But you probably didn't even see that until you're in the final season. When you're watching that back for the first time watching the film you might have thought oh, this is a great little element of the film. Yeah, and also all of those elements because we were still around for that final bit where the prize giving, we were all still staying in the same hotels and so there was that sense that you didn't know what people were going off to film and then when you do get to see it, you're like, oh, that's what they were doing, okay.

1:11:58And as you said, Simon Russell Beale is as much of a character if not more off screen than he is on and he was a treat. He really was. Yeah, you could do a spin-off I think of Simon Russell Beale. Absolutely, yeah. He deserves a film show, and he knows it. We've been so blessed with all the visiting artists over the years who think from, I don't know, Shirley MacLaine, Kirin Muntikano, Nigel Havers, Anna Chancellor. Richard E. Grant. Richard E. Grant. I mean, all the people who've come and played with us has been phenomenal. We've been so lucky. And in this one, Alessandro Nervo is very interesting.

1:12:32I think you're the one who kind of, you're suspicious of him, aren't you? Yeah, I'm the only one who seems to, yeah, kind of go. There's a couple of red flags here, guys. Right. And I love that for Tom as well, that he comes in. Actually, it was written that he was even more suspicious. Oh, really? Yeah. They've toned him down because I think Tom was coming in more with the fire he had in season one. Yeah. Yes. And Tom's one of the interesting journeys. Politically, he's like a socialist. He's almost like, you know. And he definitely kind of treads that path from chauffeur to man right in the middle of this family, of the most privileged family.

1:13:05Yeah. It's been an incredible arc to play. and a victim of circumstance due to other people's choices, even as actors who no longer wanted to stay within the show. And as Julian said, you know, if you're a servant, you can leave. But if you're a family member, you have to die. So suddenly there I am, season three, facing into unemployment because I was sure that I was going to be written out. But the fact that he kept me on and the challenge that Tom faced of having to have his ideals put up against the reality of the situation and within this family. And it has been lovely to play that arc and try and come around whilst holding on to a lot of what made him Tom at the start.

1:13:42And that's been great fun to play. And I do feel that this is a very happy balance by the end that he finds himself in. And Hugh, after 15 years, six series, three films, loads of Christmas specials, how much are you going to miss Robert? Not so much Robert, but the world in which we lived, or rather the team with whom I played, because it really was a team and a second family who couldn't help but be so. They've been a remarkable band of people. We've been through so much together, births, marriages, deaths, divorces, everything. And here we are for one last hurrah. It's beginning to feel quite emotional now, actually, because it has been an amazing chapter.

1:14:24Because you've got the premiere tonight, so that's going to be... Premiere tonight. Yes, interesting. Everyone's reaction. And this is a very cheesy question, but I have to ask, because we have reached the finale effectively. Do you have a favourite moment, a scene, a sequence in the whole history of your time on the show? Do you know, I mean, there are so many that could pop in, but the one that just popped into my head was the vision of Maggie walking across the hallway in season three, sorry, yes, when Sybil's died. And she falters for a moment and then picks herself up and carries on because she is the matriarch and she has to be strong for the family.

1:15:03It's a tiny moment, but it just sums up everything about Julian's writing, Maggie's acting, the spirit of the show. Just a brief moment, but it's very powerful. Alan, for you? I think it comes in this movie, actually. It's the last scene watching Robert and Cora walk away. In a way, for me, that fully symbolises the end of this story. and the one that we've been fired up.

1:15:33Beautiful. And what struck me, the final scene, this only struck me kind of almost as it was happening, without giving anything away, but the way it's shot and what happens when there's a reminiscing is happening, shall we say, without explaining it. It reminds me of the ending of Mission Impossible. Have you seen the Mission Impossible films? Yeah, it's quite similar. You know what I mean? In a kind of poetic way. We did have to edit Tom Cruise out. from the end. Yes. He was running round and round. Which is the boredom. Yeah. I mean, he's quite expensive. Which you're right, actually, yeah. It really does.

1:16:03Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, when you watch that, that's definitely like a, because it's like a montage which has been edited together. How did you feel when you were watching that? Well, I didn't know because it wasn't in the script and I didn't know it was coming and so it completely floored me, you know, to see a kaleidoscope of so many memories in one place and I think the audience will feel the same. I think so, absolutely. congratulations loved it thanks boy and thank you for your support over here that was really nice no it's total joy thank you

1:16:31Chris Hewitt:okay that was Hugh Bonneville and Alan Leach and Downton Abbey the grand finale is out that's what it's called is out this week folks in all good and evil cinemas but I'm sorry James has already bought all the tickets yes he's going to be sitting in the cinema fully nude probably watching the Chris Chris Chris I will of course be wearing black tie and tail what are you talking about and otherwise fully and otherwise fully oh dear is it like a felcro thing you just oh no much like that like the Chippendales

1:17:06just be me and my manservant yeah oh is that what the kids are calling it now Mr. Bates

1:17:17should we talk about the long walk oh thank god

1:17:19Chris Hewitt:alright okay so we'll talk about Downton Abbey in just a few minutes once James has composed himself. And let's talk about The Long Walk instead, which is the third of four Stephen King adaptations to get a theatrical release this year, Hell Spells. The other two so far have been The Life of Chuck and The Monkey, both of which are great. Is this also great? This is also pretty great, yeah. What? So this is Francis Lawrence of Hunger Games fame returning to the battle to the finish in a way. But this is based on the Richard Backman slash Stephen King book as was. And the idea is pretty simple. In this version of America, there has been a civil war, if you can imagine.

1:18:02There has been an economic crash, if you can imagine that. And the result is...

1:18:08Chris Hewitt:It's all pretty far-fetched to me so far. The result is a very depressed state where people are struggling to get by and where basically every teenage boy across the land enters a lottery each year where one boy from each state is chosen to compete for a vast cash prize and a wish. So the winner gets a wish as well as their vast cash prize. The losers get summarily executed. So the idea is that you start walking and the last one to stop walking is the winner. And everyone else who pauses for longer than 30 seconds, who falls over, who injures themselves, who tries to leave the track, who in any way fails to keep walking along the road, will be summarily executed.

1:18:54Mark Hamill's major plays the leader of the troops who are charged with keeping them all literally and figuratively in line. For the purposes of this, our heroes are Raymond Garrity, number 47, and Peter McVries, number 23. They're played by Cooper Hoffman and David Johnson, respectively. and around them are a cast of like good young actors people like ben wong people remember from credit kid legends earlier in the year charlie plumber is in there uh tut naiot garrett waring um who are all just trying to do this you know competition for for various different reasons they've they've got various different hopes and dreams uh various different let's be honest weaknesses and shortcomings that may or may not prove instantly fatal um and uh and yeah they just have to keep walking i i really like this i think it's great great performances uh from pretty much all the boys actually but particularly from from hoffman and johnson who are just superb in the lead sometimes they're in the middle of the pack but you know they're the lead roles um and uh And I just, you know, you really do feel for them.

1:20:04You want them to do well. You want somehow all of these boys who formed these friendships on this walk to survive. You know that's not going to happen. You are setting yourself up for a heartbreak as soon as you walk into the cinema, let's be honest. But it is really compelling stuff. As somebody who's done a bunch of like, you know, endurance events, this is the stuff of nightmares. The whole point of like doing marathons and half marathons is that you go home that night and you really sleep and you have like an amazing sleep.

1:20:31Chris Hewitt:Is that the whole point? Is that why people do it? I think it's the whole point. I mean, the medals are nice, but the sleep is just... These guys have to keep walking through the night into the next day and on and on and on and on. And the littlest thing, you know, a stomach upset, a cold can just completely knock you out. And it's a pretty terrifying prospect the more you put yourself in their shoes, as it were. But I think what works about it is that they are young men and they have that sense of optimism and that slight sense of delusion that enables them to keep going and sort of keep thinking that maybe they're going to make it, maybe that it's going to be them that survives, maybe that's going to be okay.

1:21:10And it only gradually becomes clear to them what the stakes really are. They know intellectually, obviously. They know they've seen this thing on TV. They know what's happening. But they don't really until they're in it, which I think is one of the most tragic aspects of the whole thing. So yeah, I thought it was really, really good. It didn't perhaps have, I don't know, exactly the right sense of stakes or the wider ideas. I think I could have maybe used a bit more on the whole philosophy of the thing. I kind of maybe wanted not more character development for the Major, but at least more sense of the power behind the Major, I think I would have liked, and the power that he wields could have been a bit more developed maybe for me.

1:21:52Yeah, is he the president in this world or does he work for the president? Is he just a guy? Yeah, I think he's just a guy. But I just wanted more of a sense of the wider country around this event. He lays it out a little bit at the beginning, but I wanted to see it. I wanted to feel it more than I did. But like I say, I think Cooper Hoffman and David Johnson, just superb. Superb in the lead. So relatable, so likable, so interesting. not just carbon cut out hero boys. They are good natured and they do try to do right by other people, but they're not sort of just simple do-gooders. They have things that they want and things that they need and reasons that they're doing this.

1:22:34And I really bought into them in particular.

1:22:37Chris Hewitt:Yeah, I thought this was amazing. I hadn't seen it before Tuesday night when we did the Empire VIP Club screening. As people who listen to this regularly would know, I'm a huge Stephen King fan. He's my favorite writer. And I read this book, which is part of the Backman books, which also contains The Running Man, which will be coming out in a couple months' time. I read this about 20, no, maybe even 30 years ago. And it's stayed with me ever since. It's the very first novel that Stephen King ever wrote, apparently. He wrote it when he was about 17. When you consider that, when you read that, it's an astonishing piece of writing.

1:23:15Chris Hewitt:The boy's got talent. to say the least. But I never thought it would become a film. I never thought that it could be rendered cinematically. And many people have been attached to it over the years, and you won't be surprised to know Frank Darabont was attached to it for a long, long time. I was trying to get it made, and it had written a screenplay. And I thought, this is inherently uncinematic. This is a bunch of kids walking along the road every now and again getting shot. And obviously there's drama in that, but I just didn't see how that could really unfold as a satisfying piece of cinema.

1:23:48Chris Hewitt:I was very, very wrong. This is written by J.T. Molnar, who directed Strange Darling from last year. And he has absolutely nailed the spirit of King. And I think the spirit of King, in a lot of ways, is not about the scary stuff. The reason why I'm constantly drawn back, I'm one of Stephen King's constant readers, is because of how well-drawn his characters are. and how quietly noble and heroic the greatest king heroes can be and how utterly despicable the greatest king villains can be. And this film does that justice. The performance isn't this. This is one of my bugbearses, one of my soapbox subjects.

1:24:36Chris Hewitt:David Johnson and Cooper Hoffman in this should absolutely be in the awards conversation. They will not be. they are extraordinary and they're surrounded by an incredible cast this is a harrowing film it is a bleak film it does not let go and it doesn't pull his punches in any way but what it does is something that I think some of the best King adaptations do which is it makes you fall in love with the characters and that makes the gut punches when they happen and folks, it's not a spoiler to tell you that they will happen at some point it makes them hurt even more and I just I haven't stopped thinking about it since I saw it I've gone back and revisited the book I'm working my way through it again and it's just a great great adaptation Jamie Graham of his parish said it's in his top 10 Stephen King adaptations I don't know if I'm willing to go there quite yet but it's it's up there and it's up in my top 10 of the year so far I would say there are slight quibbles i'm not entirely sure that we get a real sense i mean there's there's an obvious sense of their their decay their physical decay their mental decay their emotional decay as they're going on this this huge trek hundreds of miles across several days but one of the weird things in the book the king is really good at detailing what it does to their feet and how physically painful it would be by mile 300 also to be walking and i don't know we get a slight sense that in those movies but i i'm not i don't want to i don't want to wallow in viscera but i did want to more of a sense of every step they take every move they make at the end of this update at the end long walk should be absolute agony physically and i'm not sure i got that you get a few moments of Not a consistent sense.

1:26:34I mean, the other thing is like it rains like cats and dogs on them a few times. And so it's the water man with the long distance that will fuck your feet up. That really will. And it's a bit repetitive as well. I mean, they're just walking. You have 50 people and they're being thinned out. And you can only really play a few notes. And there's a couple of things that happen in the movie that you feel,

1:26:56Chris Hewitt:oh, I've seen a version of that earlier on in the film. But for me, this is Francis Lawrence's best film. and it's not something that I can see myself revisiting a lot but I absolutely loved it we gave it four stars on Borderland 5 yeah I think that's about right so there we go there we go the long walk four stars then for the long walk Jimbo hi I'm tempted to ask you to review Spinal Tap but I won't instead you know what go and have at it Downton Abbey talk about turning things up to 11

1:27:35this is the third and final installment in the great Downton Abbey trilogy of movies following on from the wait for it great hey hey six six series of television five Christmas specials now three movies and a crawly in a pear tree funnily enough there are a very Downton Christmas but I I have been watching this since the very beginning. You'll be unsurprised to hear I am borderline obsessed with it. It's one of these things where Sir Julian Fellowes has really tapped into this. Reminds you of your childhood. It's like me and mother and father. Yes. It's posh porn is what it is. And it's a great export.

1:28:19I can totally understand why the Americans love this because it just fetishizes the class divide. And it is absolutely beyond absurd. And this film, I think more than arguably any of the others is the lowest of low stakes. Like the big set piece is the modernization of the county fair. So, you know, just to give you some idea of where the level is. But the idea is here, the 1930s are approaching. A lot is happening. Lady Mary is now divorced from Matthew Goode, who didn't want to be in it anymore. And she's now a social pariah because a divorced woman. The scandal. So that's quite a lot. You know, Downton is now in financial crisis yet again.

1:28:57Oh, no. Exactly. Lady Grantham is trying to whip up some inheritance, but... Sorry, who's Lady Grantham? Lady Grantham. I've seen this movie. Elizabeth McGovern. Elizabeth McGovern. Elizabeth McGovern. Right. Her brother, played by Paul Giamatti. Ha-ha-ha. He's back. Literally, the first thing he does in this movie is go, ha-ha-ha. Anyway, he's over to try and help with the financial woes, but, spoiler, doesn't. A lot of other things. Lord Grantham is very, very upset because he feels that maybe his time may have passed. it may be time for him to sort of step back and allow Mary to run the family estate.

1:29:28So many people in this movie talk about something being someone's time. That's right. It's a little on the nose. You could argue the points are not made subtly, but the whole point is that a lot of people, whether it be Mr. Carson, who's retiring as a butler, Mrs. Patmore, who's retiring as the cook, and indeed Lord Grandham, need to step aside and let the next generation, and I'm sure we will get Downton Abbey, the next generation as the next film. But that's happening in there. What else is happening? Oh, yes, the county fair. Let's not forget the county fair. Who can forget the county? There's a chance they might have to sell the house in London and get a, wait for it, flat.

1:30:01Honestly, James, I've seen some high-stakes movies in my time. I've seen Avengers Endgame. This movie takes drama to the next level. Will Lord Grantham adjust to the idea of owning a flat? But how does one go upstairs? Will Paul Giamatti finish the Pickwick Papers? This movie sets up the stakes. It does. And you just think, they can't get any higher. It's extraordinary. and yet it surprises you. Daisy the scullery maid is now in charge of the kitchen. She's cooking duck for dinner. That's a whole thing. Will they succeed in getting Noel Coward along to their dinner party? Well, as you say, so Noel Coward, Artie Frusham is here as Noel Coward and he turns up for tea and of course all the neighbours want to come.

1:30:38He turns up for tea. He turns up for tea. He sings a song. He sings a lovely song. It's, I mean, look, it's fucking absurd. It's the most ridiculous thing ever and I cannot emphasise enough that if you've never watched or don't care about or let's be honest, absolutely hate Downton Abbey. You shouldn't go anywhere near this because it's nonsense. And yet, and yet, and yet, I loved every second of this. I had the most delightful time. And I think it is one of the things that these characters are just, you know, they're great, they're awful, they're fascinating, they're all of those things. And when you've spent this much time with them, it's quite delightful.

1:31:13Ah, so it's the sunken horse fallacy. It is a little bit that, but I do genuinely enjoy this. It could be that too. They've been keeping me in their basement for a while now. but I had a really good time and I didn't think this film would work for a couple of reasons so the show finished on quite a good note the first film was a little bit wobbly but worked as a kind of sort of capstone on the series and then of course they did another film and that had a lovely send off for everyone and now of course we've got the third film and it's another lovely au revoir to Downton Abbey so it's basically we're in Return of the King territory here it's just ending after ending after ending this however literally has the grand finale in the title so you know I'm hoping maybe possibly this is the end of the story And if it is...

1:31:51You're hoping it's the end of the story? Well, yeah, because it's a lovely way to send them off. And I do think... Where they all die. They do, yes. In a hail of bullets. Downton Abbey without Maggie Smith is somewhat reduced. And to be fair to Julian Fellows, and I should say, and Simon Curtis, who's returning as director, he directed the last one as well, this actually manages to be good and fun and entertaining. Good in inverted commas. Fun and entertaining. And fun and entertaining. Also in inverted commas. Without the Dowager Countess. And that's no small thing, because she was the heart and soul of Downton Abbey.

1:32:19but I had a lovely moment with this and it's so I mean it's so cynical in the way that it kind of tugs at the heart strings as a bit where she's gazing off into the distance and seeing you know you know characters passed from the show but it gets you like it lands and as a Downton fan I have to say this is exactly what I wanted now Boydie still listening Boyd hopefully hasn't gone to sleep wake up Boyd you're a monster said for the last film and this one I can't believe you didn't give it four stars it's definitely Boydie I hate to say this it's not a four star film it's not close to a four star film but did I have a four star experience you betcha I mean I had a four star experience laughing at it I had a great time Helen actually brought out a pitchfork at one point it was extraordinary and rightly because the thing that you're sort of aligning with a lot of what you've just said is that for all of the quote unquote downstairs characters in this show there's a lot more downstairs action

1:33:09Chris Hewitt:than this than I was expecting to be on you make it sound more fun than it is it's all very like oh her ladyship just complimented my cooking Oh, this is the most wonderful thing that's ever happened to me. Oh, I can't believe I get to be in service for the rest of my life. Oh, being in service has been the most wonderful thing that's ever happened to me. And honestly, bring back the revolutionaries. The thing is, this all came out of Gosford Park, which was also, you know, Julian Fellows wrote, obviously, for Altman, not ITV. But the point is, that had something to say about the bullshittery of the class system and how it was fundamentally hypocritical and everything else and how the people upstairs were bad people, at least as much as the people downstairs.

1:33:56And this has none of that. This has none of that. It has so no edges. It's like it couldn't have fewer instances of actual drama. The problem is they gave everybody a happy ending and they now don't want to undo any of the happiness. And that makes for very, very bad drama. I will give you Lady Mary's red dress in the opening scenes. Stunning. Some of the coats, delightful. Top dresses. The millinery, outstanding. I mean, pretty damn good. But really, get a grip. I mean... Get over it. It's EastEnders with more silverware. Look, let's not pretend it isn't. No, EastEnders has fights. EastEnders has murders.

1:34:38EastEnders has, like, incidents. This has none of those things. There was rampant, rampant extramarital sex in this, I think, of fun, Helen. It was scandalous. It wasn't rampant. It was off screen, and you know it.

1:34:49Chris Hewitt:I passed out during that stuff, so I didn't really get to see that. All the blood drained from your head, you're saying? Yes. I just had... I had a good time with it. I don't... About 20 minutes into this, I thought, this must be what people feel like when they go to see a late-stage Marvel Cinematic Universe movie. What is going on, and who are these people? Yes. I don't know who any of these people are, but... Well, maybe not all late-stage Marvel Cinematic Universe movies, but I'm having a lovely time. And that's what I felt with this. I was like, I don't know who these people are even though I've seen the previous two films and quite enjoyed them for what they were.

1:35:24Chris Hewitt:And I don't know how they're related to each other but I'm having a wonderful time because it's absolutely borderline terrible. And I'm enjoying that. Oh, Simon Russell Beale was in this. I quite enjoyed it. Yes, as Hector. Simon Russell Beale, because it's presented in alphabetical order, fucking sneaks in and gets top billing. Does he? Yeah. I didn't notice that. Bonnyville must be furious. He's the seventh Earl of Grantham. He's okay. Has Johnny come lately, Simon Russell Beale? Unbelievable. What's he been in? I mean, what's he done? Some of the greatest theater productions Show me your CV, Beale, if that's your real name.

1:36:01He's just a KBE. I mean, what's that all about? Borderline Terrible is a bit harsh, but I had a good time.

1:36:08Chris Hewitt:Borderline Genius. Borderline Classic. It's somewhere between the two. Is it genius or is it goat? I don't know. but we gave this three stars and I think it is the most resolutely three stars. Hey, what about that opening shot, Jimbo, that outdoes the Copacabana winner in Goodfellas. It's an opening shot that takes you through the London of the time. And it was just pure cinema. See, I would comment on that but as you know, I arrived during that shot. That's right, you did. That's right. So you didn't enjoy every single minute. No, that's true. I literally missed the first 20 seconds of the film.

1:36:37That's why he's bought every single ticket to every single screening. Which is why it's only got three stars. If I'd seen those extra 20 seconds, it would have been a fine nailed on no doubt

1:36:46Chris Hewitt:did you mention in your review that Artie Fushen who plays Noel Coward is Buck Cashman in Daredevil Born Again that didn't come up did it no wouldn't have come up doesn't sing as much there's an amazing scene with Noel Coward we did a spoiler for the last one I don't know can we do a spoiler for this one we should just for that one line I think we should do a spoiler just for that one thing it's not just that one line there's another thing I want to talk about it is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever seen and I Ludacris isn't in this movie hey he would have he could only have improved it or I don't know he could have improved his prospects I imagine delighted to meet you delighted the importance of being ludacris is my new play so there we go three stars then for Downton Abbey film of the week three stars film of this or indeed any other week is Downton Abbey the grand finale last but not least Hell's Bells I mean you could just swap the titles of this week's, two of this week's movies around, Downton Abbey, The End Continues, or Spinal Tap.

1:37:47Chris Hewitt:The grand finale. The grand finale. Because this is Spinal Tap 2. Directed once again by Rob Reiner and also by his alter ego, Marty DeBerge, on screen. What? I did not put that together. What? And we have the return of Tap, obviously. Christopher Guest as Nigel Tufnell, Michael McKeon as David Sinhubbins, and Harry Shearer as Derek Smalls. they have to put on one final concert because it turns out they still owe one under their old contract with Ian Faith which his daughter cleverly titled Hope Faith played by Karen Godleyman sorry played by Kerry Godleyman is now you know calling due on and so they have to come back together and do one final gig they have to audition a new drummer you'll never believe it but many of the world's best drummers don't want to be anywhere near them is this because you keep exploding Dear girl.

1:38:40I believe it is, Noel. How kind of you to join us. I've joined you for the last 10 minutes of the podcast. God help us all. And yes, so they have to get together. They have to work through a little bit of very ill-defined drama that has stopped them playing together for the last 15 years or so.

1:38:56Chris Hewitt:Heavens. And they have to put on a show right here. Here being, in this case, New Orleans, New Orleans, as they try and recapture that mojo that made them the loudest band in Britain. yes this is this is not the worst comedy sequel ever this is that's the good news oh what is oh there's some very bad ones I know what I think it is what Zoolander 2 yeah yeah it's pretty bad isn't it anyway this one I think is in the middle of the pack of comedy sequels it is not as good as Spinal Tap which is one of the all time great comedies this one if you're if that's the big that's the big headline does not come close to Spinal Tap there's no shame in not coming close to Spinal Tap but this one does not come close to Spinal Tap.

1:39:41This doesn't go up to 11.

1:39:42Chris Hewitt:It goes up to where? I would say seven or eight. I find it intermittently pretty funny. I laughed a little bit quite a lot. You know? I did a little bit. Quite often. So did he. But he did laugh. No, he laughed. For half the film, you were laughing because I was sat there basically like a statue, just stony face, staring with hatred at the screen. And then there was a bit, there was a masturbation joke about halfway through and I tittered. I tittered gently and the floodgates were opened and from that point on, I laughed. Several times. Twice more. No, no, no, you did not. Your definition of the floodgates opening is not everyone else's definition of floodgates opening.

1:40:21Chris Hewitt:I didn't write it down because I didn't have my phone on me. It was take it off me because I can't be trusted with it. You laughed precisely twice in the movie. I thought it was three times. And I know exactly when you laughed and I know exactly why you laughed as well. And they were two quite juvenile gags. They were, which I was quite surprised at. They were both quite... I was so surprised because it was like watching one of those fucking Easter Island statues would have laughed more at this movie. And Jimbo was just sitting there because you had literally just watched Spinal Tap before you came into this because you'd never seen Spinal Tap before.

1:40:51Chris Hewitt:I haven't, yeah. This is Spinal Tap. And you weren't particularly disposed towards that either. And that's like one of the greatest comedies of all time. And then you were watching this which we all went into with fairly low expectations I think that's fair to say. And then you just sat there. like some sort of automaton for 40 minutes. And then... And I turned and I was like, oh my God, he's left. I actually pointed at him. And we should say this is 83 minutes all in. That includes the credits and the movie basically continues right through the credits. It does, yes. So it's compact like its predecessor.

1:41:29I did laugh. They were mostly sort of hehes rather than, oh my God, I'm falling apart laughing. Like that one line in Downton, which was funnier. But... Oh, which line is that, dear girl? I can't possibly say it. Pass the port. No, not that way. Oh, the line I was referring to. Indeed. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. But I did have fun with it. I think it's an interesting one. Because of the towering reputation of the previous film, they were able to get some incredible cameos. And it's not in the sense of, again, the Zoolander 2 thing, where they've just overloaded the cameos and none of them make any impact.

1:42:05they have some very very impressive people in here and they are for the most part pretty well chosen um i think some of the other stuff around tap with their new manager and in particular their new sort of a andr man played by chris addison is very variable there's some of that did not land even slightly um and i think some of the improv behind the scenes and sort of what they've been doing in between and why they fell out just felt woolly and undercooked and not not coherent the music is still great um a lot of the fun stuff about being on stage is still great um but i it was it was a mixed bag for me but not nearly as bad as i was expecting and not nearly as bad as i'd kind of heard tell what was it earlier on it's a great slog a great it's not a slog because it's only 83 minutes you can't have a slog in three minutes i'd like the idea of great slog going and the poster did one film and then not nearly as bad

1:43:00Chris Hewitt:as I was expecting. Helena Hara. But it is, I think it's hit with the legacy sequel problem, which is that when you love a thing, when you've grown up with a thing, where a thing is part of your DNA, when something else comes along and purports to follow it up, there is an element of hatred towards it if it's not as good and they're never as good. So I think, you know, we gave this two stars. It's super harsh, I think. I thought, I had a very three-star experience with this. I laughed twice, you know? For me, that's almost... For James. Two James laughs? That's extraordinary. You know, whereas, like, Coming to America, I actively bled out of my ears, and that's not something I would give three stars to.

1:43:36But then I think you were probably more engaged with the original Coming to America than you were with the original Spinal Tap. And I think that's the key. And so there was an element of sort of, there's a punitive element that I hated the sequel because for me it sullied the original. Whereas with this, I couldn't give a shit about the original. So I quite enjoyed this for what it was. And one of my laughs, my second laugh, was from a Chris Addison line. Most people have detested his performance in this film. And I must admit, I don't think he's the best character. I didn't love him, but he does have one killer line.

1:44:03There are a couple of good lines. None of it's uniformly bad. There's ups and downs in this film very much.

1:44:11Chris Hewitt:I agree. I don't think it's bad at all, and I was expecting it to be bad. But Chris Addison's really interesting, because I know people who have seen this movie who really didn't like it, and who actually called in Ed and Lorraine Warren to exercise Chris Addison from the movie hasn't worked. But he's fine. It's just a character who's a slightly ill-conceived one. And I think certain avenues of the movie as well were slightly ill-conceived. There's a really interesting movie in here, I think, waiting to get out. And they don't quite, I don't know whether they just weren't willing to do it, the foursome, Reiner and Guest and McKeon and Shearer.

1:44:52Chris Hewitt:They weren't willing to explore some of the darker edges of the material about there's stuff about aging in there there's stuff about dying of course but i don't know there felt it felt to me like there was there's a really interesting thing to be explored in the Nigel Tufnell Davis and Hubbin's relationship falling apart and the movie pulls us punches in that regard uh that said i laughed and chuckled probably a lot more than i thought i was going to and i just really liked hanging out with them and I like the music stuff. I wonder, Wendy, I wonder if The Beatles Get Back documentaries were an influence on this and just the sense that you're hanging out with a bunch of people just...

1:45:37Much more in the studio than previously.

1:45:38Chris Hewitt:In the studio, watching them rehearsing together, watching them to get to grips with the songs together. These guys are some of the best improvisational comedians who have ever walked the face of the earth. The fact that they can all play extraordinarily well as well just adds to the luster, the sheen of reality that the film craves. At times it does break its own documentary rules, which doesn't really sit well with me. But, you know, I had a nice time with it. I had a three-star time with it. Yeah, so did I. But not hateful and nowhere near as bad as advertised. Absolutely. Stick that in your poster.

1:46:13Chris Hewitt:Great slog. Spinal Tap 2. There we go, folks. I will say that I did interview Sam Riley earlier on and Islands is really, really worth your time. It is directed by Jan-Oli Gerster, and great cast. Sam Riley is phenomenal in this, as Tom, the washed-up tennis pro, who has slowly realized he's in way over his head in a situation he did not foresee coming. Stacey Martin's great in it as Anne Jack Farthing, but it's mainly a Sam Riley showcase, a sun-kissed Sam Riley showcase. It is part drama, part thriller, part noir, part character study of a man who realizes that he's wasting his life and is he about to receive a wake-up call?

1:46:57Chris Hewitt:I don't know if there's an Empire review, but I'm very much in the four-star camp should you wish to check it out this week in kinemas. And on that note, folks, that is it. That is it for this week's Empire podcast. If you're joining us on Saturday, can't wait to see you there. But if you are not, then join us next week for more film-related fun when Helen yeah and James hi but not me no will be joined by Cillian Murphy Oscar winning Cillian Murphy and his director Tim Mielantz will be on the podcast to talk about Steve which is a film called Steve which is a very serious drama called Steve and it's not about a monkey from Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs who only wants gummy bears.

1:47:48But there you go. That'll be fun because I'm away. Yeah, you are. When you are hosting next week's podcast, when you're recording next week's podcast, I will be playing a round of golf at exactly the same time. Wow. Just imagine it. I can't. I've already fallen asleep. But not here in England. No. Abroad. Wow. Yeah. Still boring. Still a really boring game. A Good Walk Spoiled, which is also... A long walk spoiled. Yeah. Love some Mark Twain's review of the long walk. Or Noah Carwood's review of the long walk. That'd be an interesting one, darling, wouldn't it?

1:48:24Chris Hewitt:Anyway, until then, until they meet again, until that auspicious occasion, it is time to say goodbye to my two colleagues of such lethal cunning. Goodbye, James Dyer, dear boy. Goodbye, Chris. Goodbye, Helen O 'Hara. Toodaloo. Oh, toodaloo, toodaloo. And it's goodbye for me. I'm off to accident and emergency because my undercarriage got quite a tickle earlier on. Quite a tickle in the undergarage Can affect you in matters of marriage It's my new song Thank you for listening See you next time Bye-bye, you boys and girls

1:49:01Don't listen to the Pilot TV podcast