All The Information Is On The Task (ft. guests Edgar Wright, Rosamund Pike & Isla Fisher, Michael Shannon)

28:18and then it was also that thing of like handing in your stephen king used to be an english teacher so i was joking with michael because like this is like handing in our coursework to the world's most famous english teacher and then over a very sweaty weekend we were waiting for him to respond the thing is he did start responding by like screen capping bits from the script and and sort of sending bits scene by scene that he was loving like he screen crapped a line and And he goes, I love it. And then there was one line and he said, he goes, don't hit him over the head with it. That line is no longer in the movie.

28:53Oh, okay. It might be on the deleted scenes though. Okay. But at a certain point, he was loving it. But it was like, he was, it was little critiques. And I was just thinking, just read the whole thing. My heart can't take it. So he did read the whole thing. And he really, and he really loved it. But then that adds a new pressure. Because as a director, a lot of the time, the ambition level of the movie is, nobody else is forcing you to do this you are sort of making your own bed so it's not like when I'm tired and stressed out that I can curse the heavens you're standing there like on a cold day in Glasgow or Bulgaria here I think Glasgow was actually colder than Sofia but you know you can't curse the heavens because you think whose idea was this to make it this complicated?

29:45It was my idea. So you're constantly kind of kicking yourself. Anyway, the reason I say that is that you've got the ambition for the movie and you're trying to live up to the film that's in your head. But now that Stephen King had read the screenplay and loved it, now I'm also having to live up to the movie that's in his head. So throughout the movie, you've created, there's your own internal sort of pressure on yourself and then also just i just don't want to let him down so you're just putting a lot of pressure on yourself basically so the fact that he watched it and again we showed it to him i think after the second preview we did two test previews and we showed to him after the second one and he loved it and in fact i think tomorrow he's watching the finished version for the first time oh wow okay um i mean the the second preview was similar to the finished version.

30:39It's just crazy. It's just really sort of crazy. Oh, so to answer your question, sorry, I met him. So there was the next bit. So okay, two things. I didn't speak to him on the phone until after he'd watched it. Because we've been emailing he's going to watch it and I said to him, I said, hey, I really hope you enjoyed the movie. Call me afterwards and left my phone number. And so he did. And then I'm in the edit and like, it was a bit of a crackly line, but I'm kind of having a conversation with Stephen King for the first time. And he's telling me how much he loves the film, which is just kind of surreal.

31:11And then he emailed as well with lots of other things that he liked about the movie, including the changes. He said it's faithful enough to keep the fans of the book happy, but different enough to keep me excited, which is kind of the nicest way you could respond to that. I like that. But then when I was going to New York Comic Con to promote the movie, New York is close to Maine. and I just emailed him and said, I'm going to be in New York this weekend. I don't know if you're in Maine, but is there any chance of coming up to meet you? I'd love to meet you before the film comes out. And so I did.

31:48I flew up there with my girlfriend, and we ran to his house. In fact, what was the old house, which is now like a sort of institute, and had dinner, and it was amazing. And then he kept saying over dinner, I know this is okay to say, because it just made me laugh, because it was a Saturday, And he kept saying, I can't believe you guys came to Bangor. And he goes, and now what are you, and we were sort of finishing dinner reasonably early. He goes, what are you going to do on Bangor on a Saturday night? He just sort of like, I said, we came to see you. This is the reason to come. This is the entertainment right here.

32:23When we got at the airport, we got in the taxi. And we were going to sort of the hotels, drop our bags and then go around to meet him. And the taxi driver said, first time in Maine? And we're like, no, we've both been to Maine before. We've both been to Portland before. I said, first time in Bangor, though. He goes, oh, if it's your first time in Bangor, I'll drive you past Stephen King's house. And then he's driving us past Stephen King's house. He goes, what brings you guys to town? And I said, we having dinner with a friend. And I was thinking, I'm not going to tell this guy what we're doing.

32:54He might be Annie Wilkes. We have no idea. Oh, that is amazing. Love it. Andy Wilkes, my brother. Andy Wilkes, yeah. So, Edgar, thanks so much indeed. Okay, that was Edgar Wright talking about The Running Man, and we will be talking about The Running Man later on in the show in the review section right now, though it is time to dig deep into the world of movie news. There's only one place to start, and that is with a shameless plug. Hurrah. I'm counting the fact that our live show is on sale as movie news. So our next live show, our next epic live show to mark what is ostensibly, probably, I'm not counting anymore, Episode 700 of the podcast is on sale January 9th, Friday, January 9th, at our spiritual home of King's Place, London.

33:40And tickets are flying off the shelves. There's only about, I'd say, maybe 100 or so left, a hundo, as they say, for you to buy. So you best be quick. You best be quick. So don't rely on Santa giving you one. What? I beg your pardon. He might inhabit your buttocky crevice. You never know if you ask really nicely. You just recovered, please. He might give you one on Christmas Day. But don't rely on that. Don't rely on Santa. Coming down your chimney. Putting something bulging sack. Usual stuff. Anyway, kingsplace.coo.uk to snap up the final remaining tickets for that. And we will hopefully be sold out in the next couple of weeks.

34:28So be quick. Be swift. If you're flying over, book flights. If you're staying, book a hotel. Or go to James's. James is... Yes, you can stay in my bucket crevice. That's a dangerous promise to make. Yes, so James has got an open door policy. So come one, come all. Oh, God. And that'll be a lot of fun. So, yeah, we hope to see as many of you as we possibly can. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be, obviously, lists incompetence on stage. plus many, many wonderful guests and it's going to be a whole lot of fun. Anything else happening in the world of movie news, folks? Can I start with something that on the face of it is really, really dry and boring but I promise it's not dry and boring and that is Predator Bandlands which opened to$40 million at the box office and that is very, very, very exciting because none of us thought that it was going to do that.

35:19I think anyone thought it was going to do that. I did, but he just kept saying it was too bad. None of us at all, not even Helen, thought for one second that that was going to happen but I'm really, really pleased it did because not only does it mean we'll get more Predator from Dan Trachtenberg but also, you know, yay for that film. Yeah, good film. Does well at box office. Love it. Yes, very happy. Can I ask a genuine question though? Is that good? How good is that? I mean, it's been doing pretty well in midweek. I've been watching how it's done on Tuesdays and Wednesdays and it's already made about$5 million each day.

35:49So that's pretty damn solid. Pretty good legs. So it depends how it holds up at the weekend but clearly word of mouth is strong about this movie because it was tracking to make only about$20-25 million and then suddenly, out of nowhere, I think buoyed by really positive reviews and good word of mouth. It's a fantastic, fantastic film and I think a lot of people have heard that and it's a great time at the movies and they flocked to it accordingly. And there's, you know, obviously a lot of competition this weekend. There's The Running Man, there's Now You See Me, Now You Don't. So you shall see how it holds up.

36:21Whether it makes$100 million in the States, we shall see. but if you look at historically Predator movies they don't do that well they don't this is very very good indeed and of course Prey all we do each night is Prey was not released in cinemas it was a Disney Plus debut so who knows how that might have done but it's all led to this so I guess it's all it's all fine ultimately right let's hope so yeah alright thanks thanks James that's it you can leave now it says you're in the script you can go James James leaves it's funny we've got different scripts mine says James drops slightly tangential TV news is what it says next at which point I will point out that Alien Earth got it's much delayed renewal and is definitely coming back season 2 they took their sweet time green lighting that but it is and it's shooting next year which is good I suspect this might because it's quite expensive yeah it is it is expensive but it was obviously very well received did they have like a thing at Disney Plus HQ where they had like a little counter of people watching it and they, you know, like the blue Peter appeal thing and it has to hit a certain level and they're all sitting around going, oh, holding each other's hands going, it's coming.

37:30It's going to make it. It's happening. It's going to make it. James is at home frantically refreshing. Playing it on a loop. No, I'm really, really pleased about it. That's fantastic news. Oh, this is great. But they're not filming until next year. Yeah, which is unfortunate. It means it's not going to be out until 2027 probably. Oh yeah, without, I would have thought without a doubt. So long. Because TV shows are now three years a freaking part of these days. This is the thing. It's annoying. Spoiler for Monday's Pilot TV podcast, but we do end up getting into this because Shogun is starting its shooting again.

38:00Realistically, we're not going to see that until 2027 as well, the second season of that, because shows take a long time to make unless you are formerly Will Smith, but unless you are making slow horses when you are literally working on three seasons at a time. They will be editing one season while doing the writer's room for the next season and then shooting. They'll literally be working on all three at once. Editing, shooting, writing. At the risk of this devolving into an episode, and notice the word devolving. And notice the word episode. Yes. Of Violet TV. Yeah. Is there an argument being made that maybe the old ways are not the best?

38:33And that this, the constant grind of, oh, now we have to, it's different back in the old days when you had to churn out 22, 23, 24 episodes of a show. But they still did it every year. But they did it every single year without fail. They would shoot for, what, eight months. They would show the show. They would go on hiatus for four months or, you know, two months and then they'd immediately start getting in a writer's room and starting the grind all over again so you know I understand that I want Alien Earth season 2 tomorrow but it's not going to happen I want it yesterday ideally but is there an argument being made that you know you take your time you get it right rather than isn't there also an argument to be made that you shouldn't have to do a refresher every time a season comes out I mean I don't think I think there's probably a happy medium between non-stop 24 episodes a year and 8 episodes every 3 years I feel like we could hope for 8 episodes a year how about 3 episodes every 8 years oh the Stranger Things model isn't there also an argument to be made for the fact that I have a very bad memory and I can't remember things very easily especially if we are deluged with content to use a horrible word and I can't remember it all.

39:50This is why Wikipedia episode summaries exist. You can read them before you watch the new season. Yes, it is. But there have been shows that I enjoyed season one, but I didn't enjoy enough to go and swat up. I haven't started the new season of The Witcher and it's not because I'm a Cavill girly. It's just because, oh God, I have to remember who all these people are. The lore is quite dense and you have to follow it. But I think a lot of people have that same problem with The Wheel of Time as well, where it's just very dense. and if it goes on for a while and you forget you come into it you're like I don't know what's going on yes and yet they cancelled that one they did we don't talk about that no yeah Rosamund Pike I hope in the interview on this podcast talks extensively about The Wheel of Time and why it should come back no that didn't come up wow is that because you've never seen an episode um yes can I continue with the TV news while segwaying into film news I mean say that Luther is returning in another film okay following on from Luther Fallen Son there'll be another Netflix film and this time Ruth Wilson is going to be back no way does that mean it will be good well okay so we should say so Luther is fabulous I agree with you Fallen Son wasn't my favourite Luther is that on account of it being rubbish no comment in my script here it says Jane said nothing and so but I'm excited for him to come back and I think and again we get into this quite extensively on pilot as well I think that Luther has a you know It is a dark fantasy.

41:18Luther's London is not real London. And it has always been very, very over the top. I think Fallen Sun maybe took it a little bit too far in that direction. And I think it needs reigning in just a touch. But I am interested to see what... Because Ruth Wilson being back is great. Alice Morgan is a fantastic character. And their kind of lecture-esque dynamic is wonderful. So, yeah, really, really excited to see this. Other interesting news. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether it's good or not. Ryan Rodney Reynolds... Right. Is going to remake the classic Clint Eastwood, Jeff Bridges movie, Thunderbolt and Lightfoot.

41:55Okay. He's going to star and produce it for Amazon MGM Studios. It's going to be directed by Shane Reed, who was the editor on Deadpool and Wolverine. Now, has anyone here seen the original movie, the Michael Cimino movie? I think I did, but it was 20 years ago. Oh, it's so good. It's so good. Really, really great film. Buddy comedy, heist, picture, a real emotional undercurrent as well. Lovely chemistry between Eastwood and Bridges. Both of their most movie star handsome. You'd love it, Helen. You'd love it. It sounds good. Who do you think, first of all, which role do you think Reynolds should take?

42:37I think Reynolds should take the Eastwood role. Okay. And who do you think should take the other one? Well, okay. Okay, so Lightfoot is considerably younger in that movie. So Ryan Rodney Reynolds is now, what, 40-something? 40-something. 40-something, so you need someone who's younger. I mean, that rules out a lot of people. Lordy? I can Lordy. No wrong energy for you. I don't know. Do we think Lordy's a bit too serious for this, maybe? Or maybe he'll lean into that. Maybe he would. Yeah, maybe like an Austin Butler. Austin, you think he's more funny than a Lordy? You think he's less serious than Jacob the Lordy?

43:19Have you seen Dune Part 2? That dude brings the laughs. He is funny. Like a Zac Efron then? Like what are you... Zac Efron's in his 30s. Yeah. I'm looking for someone in their 20s. Okay. Yeah. For the film. Sure. Thank you for clarifying. Just to clarify. I needed to specify that. But that's interesting. Okay, yeah. Cool, cool, cool. I think that's interesting. Yeah. Cool, cool, cool. Clearly you don't agree, but that's fine. Anything else? I just don't remember the original well enough. Shame on you. Shame on you. Anything else? There's been some trailers. There's been some interesting trailers.

43:58There's a Toy Story 5 teaser trailer, which I'm sure we're all excited about. Yeah. It was very teaser. It's teaser. There's not much in it. The main thing I took from it was that Woody and Buzz are together, which undoes the ending of Toy Story 4, which I'm sure you'll all remember. Who can forget the ending of Toy Story 4? Well, the end of Toy Story 4. Tell us, John, just to refresh our clearly already very good memories. The beloved Toy Story 4 ends with Woody going off as a lost toy. he leaves his toy friends alone and he's just like sort of running wild he's like a vagabond he's a like a ronin he's a ronin I genuinely I do not remember I don't either it's an emotional Woody and Buzz have an emotional goodbye do they they go their separate ways and then in this trailer it looks like they're back together that's none of that happens no hugs no learning is what you're saying okay good he can't stop referring to TV he just can't do it he can't stop himself that's that's honestly I couldn't bring myself to watch it but I'm sure I will watch the film and enjoy it it's a good film it's okay is it it's a good film it's by some distance the worst Toy Story it is it's still good there's no bad Toy Story films the worst Toy Story film is better than the best Martin Scorsese film I think we can all agree anyway moving on to things that are better I'm sorry we've all just stepped back from Chris because when filmed Twitter assassination we don't want to get blood in our shoes these are just words on the page they mean nothing to me just his lines speaking of which it says here as well as films better than Martin Scorsese Super Mario Galaxy movie also had a trailer you wash your mouth out with soap I think Marty would understand and agree really he would look at the trailer for Super Mario Galaxy the movie and go cinema yeah this is cinema This is cinema.

46:01Or whatever it's called. Is it called the Super Mario Galaxy movie? Not Super Mario Galaxy the movie. I don't know. This is the sequel, of course, to the Super Mario Brothers movie, which... Made money. It made a lot of money. Made a lot of money. It made a lot of money. All the gold coins. Made a lot of children happy. And a lot sad. I don't think it made any children sad. It made a lot of adults sad. But it didn't make a lot of children sad. And it was brightly colored and bouncy and made noises and did all the things that you want from a movie, apart from having jokes and coherent screenplay.

46:34I mean, it's a good metaphor for life, though, isn't it? It just shows that when you get older, you grow a moustache, you bang your head against a wall to get gold coins, and that's the whole human experience. So, you know, capitalism. Wow, a spoiler for the review section there. Do you think they released it in Mufember for a reason? It's hard to say. I would respect them more if I thought that was the case. Yeah. So did anyone watch this teaser trailer? I did, I didn't. Yeah, so Bowser is tiny now. No, I don't remember the end of those. Bowser. Is it Bowser? Bowser. Bowser. I don't know. Okay, Boomer.

47:06I don't play it.

47:10Bowser is tiny now and lives in their house. Was that something that happened at the end of the last film? I don't remember, was it? I don't remember when I reviewed it. I, yeah. It didn't stick. The movie ends, if I remember rightly, with Jack Black, who I think it's fair to say is the best thing in this movie. Peaches was a fun song. Yeah, and Keegan-Michael Key was fun as well. He played Toad, I believe. Did he? He was fun. I saw it. Jack Black, he does his song about peaches, and he reprises a song, and then it pulls back, and he's in a little castle because he's been shrunk for some reason.

47:46I don't really understand why. I don't really remember that. But great. I mean, fine. Yeah. It looks colorful, and the kiddies will like it. I hope it's better. The first movie was absolutely flames, flames, flames on the side of my face, and I really, really, I get PTSD when I think about it. People who love the games seem to enjoy it somewhat more and seem to be excited about this one. I love the games. People who could pronounce Bowser correctly. I don't care. I hated the first film. But Super Mario Galaxy is one of my favorite Mario games. Recently re-released, we should say, on the Switch.

48:21Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's on the Switch. It's beautiful. It's so much fun. I don't know that that will translate to a good film Do you know what might translate to a good film? Oh, good segue Sigourney Weaver working with Meryl Streep Whoa Could they not get anyone good? Yes, sadly All overqualified people were busy So they had to get checks, notes The worst Cars movie is better than the best Meryl Streep movie I don't think even Pixar would agree with you Wow Pixar, I can guarantee, would not agree with them I don't think that's controversial to say. But okay, what is this? This is a thriller called Useful Idiots.

49:02Is it about us? It could well be. So the basic idea is that Meryl Streep is a veteran journalist who covers the New York luxury property market, but she's disillusioned with just being nice to rich people for work and takes the imminent sale of a super record-breaking luxury apartment as an opportunity to dig into its buyer and their dealings and uncovers, presumably, some suspicious goings-on. And Sigourney Weaver apparently will be her best friend. So I guess they will be working together to solve crimes? I mean, great. But yes, this is the second piece of Meryl Streep that news this week because there was also a little teaser trailer for The Devil Wears Prada, which is literally a shot of her shoes walking through as Madonna plays.

49:51So exciting times ahead for street pets. Very, very sad news to finish off the news section. We lost a number of people over the last week or so, some luminaries from the world of film. We lost a great Japanese actor, Tatsuya Nakadai, who was in things like Akira Kurosawa's Ran and Seven Samurai. That's how far back he went. And Yojimbo. And he was in Kwaidan, which is, I believe, the most recent Empire Masterpiece fantastic Japanese ghost story from the 1960s he was in a human condition as well he was 92 years old when he passed away very very sad indeed we lost Pauline Collins the great British actress Pauline Collins who was of course famous for Shirley Valentine got an Oscar nomination for that movie if I remember rightly yeah amazing performance and we lost the wonderful director Lee Tamahari director of Once Were Warriors and the James Bond film Die Another Day and of course my beloved The Edge he passed away last week and he was only 75 years old I mean that is that's too too damn young too damn young to be taken from us and very very sad indeed Tatsuya Nakadai Pauline Collins and Lee Tamahori they will be missed okay shall we have another guest or two shall we have let's have Rosamund Pike and Isla Fisher who are two of the stars this is a star stuffed film of Now You See Me Now You Don't which is the third and long awaited third shall I say a part of the Now You See Me franchise which began James if you remember rightly with Now You See Me Yes and then Now You See Me 2 which should have been called Now You Don't Yes and this should have been called Now You Free Me that's actually hard to argue with it's hard to argue with but Isla Fisher was of course one of the original four horsemen Henry Reeves yes back having missed the second one she's back because she was pregnant in real life she was replaced by Lizzie Captain not as the same character Lizzie Captain came in it's a different character for Now You See Me 2 Lula.

52:17Yes. Wow, your Now You See Me knowledge borders our mind. I watched, this is absolutely true, on New Year's Eve, coming in 24 to 25, I watched both Now You See Me and Now You See Me 2. It was an absolute rage around my house. I did. I watched both of them on New Year's Eve. You could have just called us for help. I know. I'm so sorry. I felt the need, and I did. I watched them both, and it was... You felt the need. The need not for speed, but for Now You See Me, and Now You See Me 2. The need for illusions and trickery. Yes, absolutely that. And rightly so. So I think the worst Now You See Me movie is...

52:49Well, we're not in the review section yet, Chris. We're not in the review section yet. Okay, is better... Don't finish that sentence. For the love of God, man. Have mercy. Yeah. Leave Marty alone. Watch me make my reputation disappear. You have a reputation? When did that happen? But yes, Now You See Me is a ton of fun. Now You See Me 2 is less fun. And Now You See Me, Now You Don't brings the four horsemen, who, if you remember, are magicians who are also spies. No, no, no, they're kind of thieves. They're kind of thieves. Magicians slash thieves. They're thievesy spies. I would say there's a little bit of spying, a little bit of thievery.

53:24Mostly thievery. Sometimes they murder people. I don't know. It's true. It's quite weird. Do they murder people? I mean, some people definitely die. I don't think they've murdered anyone. They've definitely just beat people up. Oh, no, he died. I don't think anyone dies in this. They have no problem with beating up police officers. and get to that you know Dave Franco gives some serious paper cuts he does throwing those cards around so the four horsemen are of course Death J Fire and Mortis Fire and Mortis sorry I went about 2008 no it's Brinner McQueen Coburn and Bronson who are the four horsemen James you can't you know too much J Daniel Atlas played by Jesse Eisenberg Jesse Eisenberg Kenley Reeves played by Isla Fisher Kenley Reeves Henley Reeves, who can pick up?

54:11Merritt McKinley. McKinney. McKinney, played by Woody Harrelson. And, unforgettably, his twin brother Chase in Now You See Me Too. And Jack Wilder. Oh, my God. Very good. Played by Dave Franco. Very good. Very good. Don't ask me to name the new ones. I don't remember. Nor do I. Okay. Or do I. Which tells you a lot. there's Charlie Bosco and June oh yeah Bosco Leroy yeah Bosco Leroy which is a really good name played by Justice Smith that's Charlie Ariana Greenblatt who is June and Dominic Cessa Dominic Cessa I remember Bosco Leroy I forget Dominic Cessa which is weird because he's really good yeah he's really good he appears to be made of pure charisma oh he'd be great Thunderbolt and Lightfoot Dominic Cessa I was going to suggest him and then I was like I don't know done alright good I get a casting bonus anyway everybody go watch the Holdovers it's back in season oh it's so good that's true yes it is seasonal good it is very very seasonal as indeed is Now You See Me Now You Don't I can see a time when Christmas Day is just wall to wall Now You See Me I've already told you it's New Year's Eve it's not Christmas Day every New Year's Eve you have to watch all the Now You See Me that's the law if you press play on Now You See Me Now You Don't at the exact moment your social life disappears when you get to midnight.

55:36It's extraordinary.

55:40Anyway, all of this is to say that Isla Fisher is back in Now You See Me, Now You Don't, and she is joined in this by Rosamund Pike. We love Rosamund Pike in this podcast. She's been on many, many times before, and she is the film's baddie, Veronica Vandenberg, who is a South African arms dealer. Diplomatic immunity. Diplomatic immunity. And it's a very good South African accent. And she could absolutely pass muster on an episode of Snakes in the City, as I didn't say to her when I spoke to her. And Isla Fisher together last week in the London hotel room. And we had a lot of fun chatting about this movie.

56:14Do please enjoy. Rosamund, Isla, welcome to the Emperor Podcast. How are you both? Very good. Thanks for having us. Well, no, absolute pleasure. Rosamund, of course, you're new to the Now You See Me franchise. Yes, new and short-lived, I think. No, not necessarily. Sometimes our villains come back. Yeah. Yeah, there's lots of people, there's lots of retcons. Baddies turn good, you never know. You join the I, you become a horseman. Yeah, absolutely, you know. Honestly, try and read the Morgan Freeman character bio in this. He's up, he's down, he's good, he's bad. You don't know what's going on.

56:46So you never know. You never know. I think people know what's going on with me, though.

56:54You never know. Well, we'll get into it in a second. But welcome to the franchise. Isla, welcome back. Thank you. obviously you were unavailable for Now You See Me 2 for very good reason for very good reason indeed yeah but how does it feel to be back? So good so fun it's like a big family albeit a dysfunctional one we just set off we picked it up exactly where we left it playing some silly game and just having a fun time it's really great amazing did you guys have a lot of time on set together because not to give too much away but Veronica Vandenberg what a character name and Henley Reeves, what a character name, are very much loggerheads throughout the film.

57:36So was there a lot of time on set for you guys to do those games? We had a week or two where we were together. We were fortunate enough to go to Abu Dhabi together, so we had a few dinners. Yeah. But for the most part, you're off doing your villainous things. Most of our scenes together, we're in Abu Dhabi, right? Yes. Yeah, and we had, yes, we're sort of facing off, me versus the sort of crew. Yes. It's quite sort of. Yes. it's usually me you know with a wall of horsemen confronting me so I have to play confident and all of us just stop acting and watch her act because she's so brilliant we all just leave our characters in the room this is a masterclass and now it's done well you want to speak about magic tricks can we talk about your accent in this that is that's my only magic trick I think it is as they say in the acting world proper good it's proper good thanks yeah so So it seems very specific.

58:31Was there a part of... There was a woman, actually. I think over time I've learned that the generic thing, the generic American, the generic doesn't really work. It's much better if you find a person and absorb everything about their inflections, their rhythms, all that stuff. Okay. Or get inspired by, apparently, I was supposed to say, rather than steal from them. Yes. It's fine. It's okay. She's in character now. Absolutely. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. But it's, I wanted, I looked very hard for a South African voice that had that sort of sense of...

59:37you know, to when I first spoke to her, I was in LA. And I said, she said, are you in London? I said, no, I'm in LA. Oh, how divine to be in LA. And I thought, oh, how divine to be in LA. I just went with that all the time. How divine to be in LA. But you were also given a lot of alternative lines, which you really were so good on. I was so impressive. Remember Ruben, I don't want to give a spoiler away, but there's a scene where we're in a tank and, you know, she has a very impressive monologue. And she was given, you know, at the last minute, really big changes and small changes, but a lot of changes to this one.

1:00:13And I just was so impressed. Oh, gosh, thank you. Amazing. Of course, Isla, you have an incredible facility for accents. I mean, she's not American if you hear. What? I love an accent. It keeps you so safe. It's like a cozy sort of... I've done no research. Hang on. You're not American. What the hell? That's a hell of a thing, though. I mean, did you find accents come naturally to you? I think just there isn't much call for an Australian accent, at least when I was starting out. There weren't the same opportunities in Australia. Like our industry is really boom now. We have state-funded drama system.

1:00:47You know, we have so much more money in the arts. But back then it was sort of like you had to sort of master a different accent because you knew you were sort of going to be farmed out somewhere overseas to work. And also a lot of the content I grew up watching was American. Yes, yes. Yes, I was going to say, because I've spoken to a number of, well, I think it's something that British actors and Australian actors share in common. We all grew up, say we, I'm not an actor, but we grew up watching a lot of American TV and it just seeps in there. It does. By osmosis, it just gets into your brain.

1:01:17But at the same time, is there one that both of you have struggled to crack over the years, accent-wise? Oh, I've done a really shady accent once. I'm scared to even bring it up. Oh, please bring it up. It's so bad. You're among friends here. Okay, well, I'm going to be quoted on this. but I did a Scottish accent. I knew it was going to be Scottish. I knew it. And I didn't have any time to prep. I honestly had a week and a half, but I had a newborn. I had two kids. And my father's from Bathgate. My mother's from Strenra. So I grew up with the dialect. And weirdly, it created a kind of inability for me to hear it, which I didn't count on.

1:01:53I think just because I was in a house with people with really strong Scottish accents. It was the strangest thing. It was like I couldn't get over it, and I was doing Shakespeare. and I just, I haven't actually seen the result but I know it, I knew I was, it was just, it wasn't in muscle memory, it was, I had to think about it and you know if you're thinking about something, I feel like it's not working. I think if it's not really ingrained in the muscles in your mouth and you don't know where the sound's coming from and you're still formulating it while you're doing your dialogue, you know you're doing a shit job.

1:02:26I'm sure it's not the case. Well, I mean, I haven't seen that film But if you don't feel free in the dialect, which I didn't in the early days of doing American, you're playing the accent. You need to be able to be so free in the accent that you could say anything. So instead of now practicing the lines when I'm doing a dialect, I will read bits of the newspaper. I'll read the menu. I'll read and try and just make sure I can do it. And you can do it with real people, order a coffee in it. Yes. Yeah. Which, you know, people don't sort of teach you to do that when they first start teaching. You think it's just a dialect coach on the lines.

1:03:00And now I think there's – I think now that people are watching so many more real people as opposed to just movies, I notice that the younger kids are so much more facile with accents than we were, I feel, because there's just so much more spoken English all the time. But it's really interesting because – Let's not people at home. Let's not check it out. Don't check it out. But I'm sure – Let's not Google it. I'm sure it's true. Let's not Google the reviews just in case. And if you do, don't tell me or write on my Instagram page that you heard it and it was awful. But it's interesting because I have, weirdly, I espoused this theory on our podcast a couple weeks ago.

1:03:41And I said that kids who grew up in a household with parents whose accents are wildly different from theirs are usually able to imitate those parents. Proved you wrong. Proved me wrong instantly. Exhibit A right here. Thank you. Maybe it's because you heard it. You couldn't analyse how all the sound was made. Correct. Where in the mouth it goes. It was just there. Oh, my God. All right, should we talk about happier stuff? It's dark walk down memory. And at least it's all in English. I mean, I'm trying to sort of learn. My children speak Chinese and I'm trying to sometimes, you know, learn a phrase here and there.

1:04:14And there are sounds that I think, you know, there's a sound like qi. And I say that's what I'm doing, qi. And they say, no, it's not. It's qi or qi and it sounds exactly the same to me. Yeah. You just can't hear it. We're both trying to get ourselves unemployed. Do you hear this? Competing for who's worse at hearing sounds. This was not the purpose of the jungle. Cut, cut, cut. Listen, I did not. I didn't walk in here trying to like, you know, torpedo your careers. It's just, it's just, it happened. It's just a natural byproduct of where we went. But let's talk about happier stuff. Let's talk about magic.

1:04:49Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Did you learn magic tricks for this? Because Veronica is obviously someone who's not... Oh, I meant a really good bit of sleight of hand. There was a real kind of smooth, and then it's clean cut from the film, sadly. Oh, I thought you meant the one where you... Oh, okay, right. No, there's a whole kind of... There's a whole exchange in a sort of, you know, secret pocket, secret compartment. Right. Something goes in the bag, and then it's not in the bag. But it's deceptively hard to do these, like, you know, the little... The micro muscles that you use to do stuff. magicians work on for years.

1:05:22Yeah, 10 ,000 hours. And we just sort of came at it with a very short amount of time with fantastic magicians, but a lot of it was just practice, practice, practice. Had you kept it up in between? A little bit I had just because, you know, once you've learned, it becomes like a party trick that you just want to show off. But it was fun learning the new magic, and this movie is so much more practical magic, which I think is great. Yeah. What's the party trick? I can flip like a ping pong. It's all sleight of hand stuff. I'd need the props, but I can make it. Yeah, I can flip it. It's all to do with like I can make things appear and disappear.

1:06:00Let's just say that. With using my tiny hands. Something the size of a ping pong ball. No, I can do it. I can also do it with a heart diamond. I did that. Oh, yes. Oh, that's actual sleight of hand in the film. Yes, I did that. That's a incredible take. Great. From all of them doing it one after the other. Amazing. because I don't know what to believe when I watch these movies. That's one take and everybody's part had to go right. Wow. It's so exhilarating. And when they'd got it, everyone just kept watching it back because it was like... And I was really lucky because I do two tricks in that scene, but my only difficult trick is early on.

1:06:33So I got it out of the way. So if it had gone wrong, we're only a minute and a half in. Oh, yes, yes. But some people had to do their trick right at the end and everyone's sort of watching each other. It's like being on stage where you're seeing each other hit and it's real camaraderie. It's a team effort. So we're all like equally annoyed if someone gets it wrong. Like Woody, remember, improvised on like one of the last, like we finally got it right and we got to his bit and he just like played around and ruined the magic. We're like, Woody! That seems very Woody Harrelson in a lot of ways. Wow.

1:07:06And so when you got it right, did everyone have to keep control of their emotions? Yes, because of course there are other things that might not be right, Like the lighting, a boom, the direction we might have shot off somewhere. So it was not just dependent on us. Obviously, there's an amazing crew that are pulling also the same feet off. Jeepers. Imagine if you got it all right and then you just ruined the take by high-fiving and just whooping in joy. But Rosamund, I mean, I'm just disappointed to hear that your sleight of hand was cut out of the film. But did you learn anything else? Have you picked up anything else over the years?

1:07:40Any other magic tricks? Well, I mean, I do some pretty, you know, I get people to disappear and reappear in certain ways in the film. I mean, you know, the whole diamond business is a magic trick, you could argue. Yeah. We've all bought into the magic of the diamond as the symbol of romance. Did you hear now that they can make diamonds? Well, lab-grown diamonds. And nobody can tell the diamond apart. So diamonds are a thing of the past. Yes. Well, as Veronica says in the film, I mean, who wants a falsehood on their finger? Because that's all she's got to hold on to. Because she says it's not, you know, it's not a diamond.

1:08:20People can't tell the difference, but you know. And Ruben tells me he's working on Now You See Me 4. Yeah. That'll be fun. Watch this space. Don't look at me. Watch this space. I'm looking at her. I want her in my contract. I'm like, we need her back in the eye. Yeah, absolutely. someone even worse than Veronica Vandenberg comes along and the horsemen have to team up with her for reasons I haven't figured those out yet but don't worry I'm working on it and then boom magic happens hmm okay Rosamund's not I need to know the reasons what are the reasons just reasons you don't need to know Rosamund Isla on that note thanks so much for your time thank you thank you okay that was Rosamund Pike and Isla Fisher talking about Now You See Me Now You Don't you would think we would start off the review section of the show because that's where we are now with Now You See Me Now You Don't but that would be just what you want us to do instead we're going to talk about Frankenstein because it came out last week on Netflix Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein we weren't able to do it justice in terms of the length of review when it came out in the cinemas a couple weeks ago and we weren't able to do it justice last week either will we be able to do it justice now?

1:09:37Hells bells. Oh, probably not. I'm not sure there is such a thing as justice for this, but this is a real passion project, a labor of love for Guillermo del Toro, who's been trying to make it for approximately ever, I believe. Yep. And this is a pretty faithful adaptation of the Mary Shelley original story. So we have Victor Frankenstein played by Oscar Isaac, who is a little bit of a little boy lost. He lost his mother at a young age. He was raised by a domineering and quite frankly terrifying father. Think Charles Dance dressed up when Salieri dresses as Mozart's dad. So you think he can dance?

1:10:16In Amadeus. Hey. That's kind of the vibe here. Very, very sinister. And he grows up to become a surgeon and take people apart and try and find a way to conquer death, which after all took his beloved mother from him at a young age. And he ain't having it. so um he has some success bringing bits of bodies to life that impresses uh an investor played by christoph waltz um who gives him the means the money and the uh frankly terrifying tower on a cliff top that he needs to finally bring his project to life and create the creature uh jacob alordi's creature who uh is made out of dead things um this is a really interesting film because he's approached it with the framing device that basically an Arctic exploration vessel finds these two in the deep frozen north.

1:11:09Again, inspired by the novel. So we have kind of two perspectives on the story because we get Victor's take on it, talking to these sailors on this ship and laying out his history, and also the creature's account of his own life and what he experienced. And it does give a really interesting spin on things. There were also roles for Mia Goth, who is Elizabeth, who plays Victor's brother, William's fiancé, basically. But he also has a little bit of a thing for her because she looks just like his mum. Freud, hello, calling Freud. And yeah, that's kind of the setup. It's quite a sort of focused cast, a very focused group.

1:11:49It's all about, honestly, it's all about bad fathers and, you know, taking responsibility for the life that you create and learning what matters in life and not just sort of, you know, pushing for knowledge for its own sake, I guess. It's beautiful looking. It is just stunningly, absolutely drop dead gorgeous. you know this is clearly something that Guillermo's been working on for basically his entire career and thinking about and kind of bringing to life and I thought the performances were great as well Oscar Isaac's very English accent takes a little bit of getting used to he is meant to be a baron after all but I thought of course he's not English either no no but you know but he's but he's speaking with what we perceive as an English accent because they're trying to communicate that he's posh and that's how you do that and that's how you do that it is and I love that the creature develops a different accent because Victor doesn't spend enough time with him to teach him how to speak and someone else who teaches him how to speak.

1:12:51And I thought that was just a beautiful, beautiful piece of performance. It's a film about shitty parenting. It really, really, really is. And also about what makes us human and what it means to be human and all these kind of things. So I just thought it was lovely. I thought the first time I watched it, and I think I said this when we talked about it briefly before, that I find it a little bit quick at the end. I thought certain things happened too fast for me. When I watched it a second time around, those did smooth out a bit and they did feel more natural and flowing and effective actually so i feel like it's one of those ones that my objections to first time around are going to fade steadily with with time because i really enjoyed it i really enjoyed it first time but i really really enjoyed it second time around it's interesting you're talking about the structure because i i found this to be quite long and i do think this is a holdover from when originally this was going to be two films.

1:13:43He was going to have a film from Victor's point of view and a film from The Creature's point of view and then he realised that having this kind of hinge in the middle and pivoting the narrative was maybe a better way of doing it. But it does mean this is not a short film and I felt that certainly the last half an hour of it I was flagging ever so slightly. But it is absolutely beautiful and it's a really interesting take on the story which is, you know, it's like daddy issues with monsters. Like it really is. And Elordi's monster is great. He's so good in this role but he's simmering with this kind of fury and resentment and sort of a sense of abandonment of this kind of paternal malfeasance that he's suffered.

1:14:15He's like the world's stroppiest teenager, but instead of, you know, saying, I hate you, he just pulls your arm off and you can't kill him. But he's also quite eloquent and sort of emotionally literate, which is a million miles away from Boris Karloff. It's a completely different sort of take on the creature. I think at times there were moments where I thought it was being consciously silly, like deliberately. I mean, it's a very heightened film. And I didn't buy some of the character motivation. Mia Goth's character in particular, well her main character, not the mother character, but I didn't buy her motivations and I felt like her affections sort of are all over the shop.

1:14:49I couldn't quite get a read on it. I think that's deliberate. Yeah. I didn't love that because I couldn't really sort of feel my way through that character. And I do think, like I say, it probably could have lost 30 minutes, but I do think that you know, when this story is told well, it's supposed to tug at the heartstrings, it's supposed to be affecting and I genuinely think this does work in that regard. but there are also moments that kind of somehow undid and I don't know that this was deliberately an Austin Powers homage but there is a bit where Victor gets out of the bath and various household objects are obscuring his cock and balls I'm like is he doing Austin Powers is that what this is I'm assuming not but hey maybe it is maybe Gamma's a massive fan there is a bit where he turns to the camera and goes yeah baby but you know did it make you horny it did make me horny I didn't love this film partly because I just couldn't always get a handle on it I really I think it had noble intent and I think it looks beautiful I think if you maybe shaved half an hour off the run time I think it would have been almost perfect for me but I just think by the time I got to the end I felt a little bit like it would have become an endurance test no pun intended on the name of vessels but yeah John have you seen it?

1:15:59I have yeah I liked it I didn't love it I think I sort of agree with you James that the sort of pace did feel a little bit much for me. Also, I've never totally vibed with Guillermo del Toro's more gothic homage films. I kind of prefer him when he's doing a bit more modern-day stuff. Not a Crimson Peak fan. Not a Crimson Peak fan. But it's still definitely a pleasure just to watch someone clearly realizing their long-held dream. This is such a specific vision, and it's completely executed exactly as he wants. It's also a very Catholic film, which I really appreciated. It feels very, it's sort of thick with religious imagery.

1:16:50Helen's nodding along. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's not even the most Catholic film that Netflix is putting out in the next two months, though. That's true. That's very true. Christmas Chronicles is back again. What is it? Wake Up Dead Man. Wake Up Dead Man. Oh, that's very Catholic, isn't it? Very Catholic. Yeah, very Catholic indeed. Let's move on. John mentioned Pace a few seconds ago, which brings us neatly to Lee Pace and picking up the pace because it's time to talk about The Running Man. I've gone Irish, I don't know why. The Running Man. John, talk us through this one if you can. The Running Man, yes, of course.

1:17:26Well, this is The Running Man, originally written in 1982. I've said it several times. just in case we're not clear it's The Running Man written by Stephen King yes in 1980 as Richard Bachman Richard Bachman as he was was his pen name yes at the time then became a film in 1987 yes by Starsky or Hutch Paul Michael Glazer Starsky directed Arnold Schwarzenegger starred didn't really bear a lot of resemblance to the book no improved upon it really in every way oh my god I think that's it it's been a while since I've seen it but it was set in like a sort of a gladiatorial arena it wasn't really like you were on the run you were just sort of I think we can all agree that Steve D'Souza elevated Kingspros here's Sub-Zero now plain Zero

1:18:26just play along nod and play along and he will soon lose interest it all is good but yes 87 one but this is now the 2025 one it is a much more faithful adaptation it tells the story of Ben Richards who in this film is played by Glenn Powell who is a working stiff he's a good guy but he's beaten down by society he's forced into competing in The Running Man which is a deadly competition where trained assassins track you down and kill you. It seems unfair, right? It doesn't seem very nice. They don't do that on Taskmaster, not yet anyway. Not yet. And Ben Richards is perhaps the best hope to outrun these assassins and expose the corrupt...

1:19:24He has to stay alive for 30 days, essentially, to win one billion new dollars which judging from the exchange rate in this movie would make him genuinely one of the richest people on the planet I mean inflated wise deflation isn't it it seems like a hundred new dollars is quite a lot of money in this world so a billion new dollars would make him essentially emperor of the world yes so John tell us more Return of Edgar Wright worth the wait I would say so it's like it's a very different film for Edgar Wright I think it's first off it's a big Hollywood film he's not done a ton of stuff in Hollywood apart from Scott Pilgrim really Baby Driver was Hollywood Baby Driver I suppose but this is very different to either of those really it's a big flashy sci-fi film he's I think trying to do something a bit different here I think he's trying to like pull back some of his more directorial box of tricks you know the sort of the whip pans and the crash zooms are like a little bit more muzzled um but what he is doing which i really appreciated is a kind of paul verhoveny satire you know this is a very like very um enjoyable piss take of america as it is now and what it could be as uh i i it felt a lot like kind of the robocop vision of the future this kind of dystopian, heightened version of what an urban landscape looks like.

1:20:54And there's also a little bit of like Starship Troopers, and it's like the way it satirizes American culture. There's some very funny like reality TV parodies. There's the Americanos, which is like a Kardashian piss take. But interestingly, it's not that funny. It's not a comedy. I think it's not like it's early stuff, which is straightforwardly sort of action comedy. I feel like it reminded me more of Minority Report than something as sharp as some of the Verhopens, to be honest. I think that the satire is there, but it's not as wild as it could have been. I think it could have pushed those shows a lot more.

1:21:35The Americanos bits, every time we cut to that, I'm like, nothing's really happening here. What's this about? So I felt like it could have been punchier in some of those areas. I know what you mean. I love Verhoeven's satire because there's a real brio to it. There's a grotesquery to his satire that I very much enjoy. And I think this one, I mean, you could say it's more subtle or you could say it pulled its punches. I feel it's more the latter. So I was a little disappointed by this. I think my main reason is it didn't, it honestly didn't feel like an Edgar Wright film to me. I don't think it had any of his flair, his panache, or any of his stylistic flourishes, because Edgar's established himself as kind of an auteur, really.

1:22:15You know an Edgar Wright film, whereas if you'd said to me this was directed by, insert name of action, I'd have said, sure, why not? Sight unseen, I would never have said this was an Edgar Wright film. So I think I maybe went in expecting some of that and feeling a little short-changed that I didn't get it. Yeah, something he's not trying to do this time. Yeah, and fair enough. This is clearly a decision that he's made, and that's fine. But I felt a little bit let down by that. And I think the other aspect to it, and I will not go into details, is I did not think the ending worked for me. I understand, and again, I'm going to be deliberately very vague here, I understand the choices that were made and the conversations, I'm sure, that were had, but I felt quite let down by the kind of final act of this.

1:23:01So your mileage may vary on this. so this was not one of my favourite Edgar films but by no means a bad film I had a good time with it it's got a lot of big action-y blockbusters some great set pieces in it and Glenn Powell who's playing less the friendly cuddly Capybara and more the perma-angry I'll fucking punch you in the face Capybara which is a new look for him I guess similar to his Maverick role a little bit I quite enjoyed that but I found it also disconcerting I don't expect that from Glenn Four stars then for The Running Man next up Now You See Me Now You Don't Jimbo yes the return of the four horsemen with some extra horsemen yes many many horsemen younger horsemen they call themselves the foals apparently in real life that's a bad that's very sweet very sweet indeed this is the third but hopefully not final part of the Now You See Me franchise I hope this franchise runs forever and I hope you have to watch there are only so many hours on a New Year's Eve Chris I honestly See, I wanted to make more Now You See Me movies so that your entire New Year's Eve is taken up with these movies.

1:24:08So that your entire life is just seeing Now You See Me. Now You See Me. Like at all times Now You See Me. So would you say, if someone said to me, should I see Now You See Me, Now You Don't, should you say yes, you go see Now You See Me, Now You Don't, or should you say Now You Don't See Now You See Me, Now You Don't? That's a lot of words. Please stop. I mean, look, okay, so I should say I really like this franchise. I really enjoy these films and I do think the laws of diminishing returns apply here. We're going to have some, I think, disagreements in this room over this, but let's get into the plot.

1:24:39I'm so angry with you already. I can tell where this is going. You like big butts and you cannot lie. I cannot lie. I think the first show you see me is a delight, an absolute delight. A five-star masterpiece. I think it's a four-star film. I think it's so much fun and I think the horsemen are fantastic. The overall plot and the switcheroo is great, but there is something so satisfying in seeing the tricks unfold. Not even when they show you how they were done, which, you know, you shouldn't do with magic for sure. But just watching moments like when Atlas throws the handcuffs onto Ruffalo. It's just great.

1:25:13It's a really satisfying watch. The second one is nowhere near as good. I still give it three stars. It has some great sequences. You know when they're passing the card around in the vault? That's a genuinely great sequence. But as a whole, the film is slightly disappointing. Is it though? Yes. This one, I think, is a step down from the second one. and let me tell you why. So this is set 10 years after the events of Now You To Me, as we're going to call it. And that's when the horsemen disappeared following that film. And now a new group of magicians. So you've got, checks notes, Charlie, played by Justice Smith, Bosco, played by Dominic Cesar, and June, played by Ariana Greenblatt.

1:25:47June! And they are essentially fleecing people while pretending to be the horsemen. And then, of course, wouldn't you know it, enter J. Daniel Atlas, Jesse Eisenberg, who has a job from the eye and wants them to steal a diamond. So this is the heart diamond. It's apparently the largest diamond in the world, and it's owned by Rosamund Pike, who plays Veronica Vanderberg, and much hijinks then ensue. I thought the old lady threw it into the ocean at the end. I mean, right. It's been 87 years, but Rosamund Pike had it all along, so it's absolutely fine. And wouldn't you know it, but the horsemen get involved.

1:26:21So, and this is my main complaint about this film. So I totally get what they're doing. They're introducing new blood. It's a team of younger magicians, and the idea might be a passing of the torch because there is a lesser role. I mean, Jesse Eisenberg's in it a fair old bit, but this is a lesser role for the other horsemen. There's very little Woody Harrelson. I think everyone has sort of slightly pared down parts. And for me, that was the big sort of downside to this because the horsemen are the best things about these films. They're so much fun to be around. They're really, really great. And I just felt these three characters, and this is no criticism of the actors, all of whom are great, but I just felt that Bosco and Charlie and June just didn't interest me as characters.

1:27:00I found them quite bland. I found them quite boring. And any time I was with them, I was very conscious I wasn't with the Horseman and felt a little bit disappointed. I want more of, you know, Merritt McKinney and his evil twin doing like mentalist hypnotics on people. I want more of that, you know. And I felt a little bit shortchanged by that. And the other aspect of this, and look, I know these films have always been fantastical. I know that the magic has always been heavily CG enhanced. Obviously, it's not real. but there was an element of you were like i know it's not real but could it be like there was there were moments where you're just like that's just really clever i felt that invention was missing here and a lot of these tricks it just felt like oh we're just going to cg thing here and whatever and it just didn't it didn't have the magic honestly is what i'm saying it didn't have the magic for me and i think i found that that and some questionable historical facts i found quite distracting and ultimately i was just i think gently bored so for me this was and i agree with the official Empire of Hugh John Nugent, a two-star film.

1:27:55You're both disgraces. I had an okay time with it. I agree with Helen. Will I remember it in a month? Absolutely not. It's all I can think about. It's all I've been able to think about. It passed the time perfectly well. I think it helped me with the younger cast that I like them all as actors. I think they're all really likable actors. I am always, anything Justice Smith is in, I'm intensely interested in his well-being. I cannot explain this, but literally since the get-down, I've been like, I just want that kid to be okay. I hope he's all right. I'm sure in his own life, he's having a wonderful time and that's great.

1:28:29But when I see him on screen, I'm like, are you okay? Do you need a snack? You want justice to be served. I do. I want justice to be served. And I felt that here. And I think that probably helped me invest in those younger characters. I loved the younger characters. I thought they were good. I thought he had this whole fanboy thing going on, which was charming. The other two were a little bit spikier, but still inclined to be starstruck by the older magicians. It was a fun dynamic. I liked it. It's a fun dynamic, James. But I do think there's a lot of globe-trotting in this, and I think it maybe suffers from a little of even-numbered Fast and Furious films syndrome of you're putting spectacle ahead of the reason we're all here, which is, of course, family.

1:29:13Those films have the same thing as well, don't they? It gets to the point where you've got so many characters, it becomes unwieldy. It becomes a bit unwieldy and the CG takes over from the stuff that was done practically. Although there was never much. I'll be honest, these were always very VFX heavy. Yeah, I think it was the way it was done though. It had that quality where you almost believed it and I didn't have that. Unless I've completely swallowed everything they've told me, which is entirely possible because I'm very gullible, as someone once told me. Apparently they did a lot of stuff practically.

1:29:43There's a big diamond switch at one point that apparently they were all palming it off to each other. the diamond that is not a sex thing so yeah listen I swallowed it I'm sure the sort of the leisure domain was done practically but a lot of the other stuff is just like I don't know what you just said slight of hand okay I just think yeah look it's not it's never going to be my favourite franchise but nothing about this upset me particularly I rolled my eyes a bit but it was I wonder whether that's because you don't love the first one yes I don't I mean the first one had a cleverer twist than anything in this there's a bit of a twist in this which pretty much worked for me but I thought the first one really delivered on that and that the others haven't so much well you're all dead to me because this is my favourite franchise and John justify yourself this is your favourite franchise we are selling Marlon favourite of all the franchises it's called misdirection John I've got you concentrating now you see me over here while I'm MCUing it over here please tell me I mean it's a franchise that has never risen above fine.

1:30:50It's just fine. Whatever. I don't care. It's like... It's fine. Now You See Me Now and now I do not even think about it. It's a... It's... Yeah. It's a whatever. I had a decent time with it. It's directed by Rupert Fleischer, which I'm not sure is something we've mentioned so far. No, we have not. We have. He's the third director in the Now You See Me franchise taken over from John M. Chu, director of Wicked for Good, of course, and Louis Leterrier, director of The Incredible Hulk the second film in my favorite franchise the Marvel Cinematic Universe so it all comes full circle eventually you know fun crowd pleaser but will there be any crowds to please?

1:31:28will they all be at The Running Man? will they all be at Predator Badlands? who the fottick knows but I gave this one 23 stars John has disappeared 21 of those I genuinely took me a second to work that out 23 I've got to get to two from 23. What do I do? I take away 21. John, you gave this two stars. I did. I did. I'm sorry, Chris. You are a Scrooge and a curmudgeon and I dock you 10 points. Two stars then for Now You See Me, Now You Don't. Very, very quickly because we are running out of time and people are banging angrily on the glass to get rid of us. Three movies of such lethal cunning, Hell's Bells.

1:32:11We have Nuremberg, we have Christmas Karma, And we have Alpha, the new film from Julia de Cornell. How do you want to take them? Let's start with Nuremberg, shall we? Which is James Vanderbilt's adaptation of the Nuremberg Trials. And this one focuses on... Based on World War II by... Thanks, yes. I love the credit comes up. It is actually based on a book about... Specifically, but it's based on the sort of conversations between Goring, Hitler's right-hand man, who's played by Russell Crowe. Yes. Take it up with my boss, the Hitler. And the psychiatrist who was sent to, first and foremost, make sure he was fit to stand trial because they wanted to be very clear that they were trying to give the Nazis a fair trial and they were trying to, you know, convict them in the eyes of the world and make it very clear what had happened so it would never happen again.

1:33:07They hoped. So that was job one for the psychiatrist who was played by Rami Malek. Job two was he was thinking, hey, there's a book in this. I can write the definitive account of the Nazi leadership and what makes men go evil. So, you know, there's immediately kind of competing aims, I guess, with him going into this, but it becomes a bit of a battle of wits, I suppose, between him and Goering. There's also a kind of B plot, which is about the setting up of the court itself, which is where Michael Shannon comes into it as Justice Jackson, who was one of the lead. US prosecutors. It was a multinational team.

1:33:45My issues with this were I don't think it goes far enough. I think it should have been a miniseries. I genuinely think this is one of the few times in history where the lawyers were the real heroes here and they have decided not to in any way really focus on the lawyers, which I was immensely frustrated by. I think this should have been like a 6R Prestige HBO miniseries. And I think that the angle they've taken and the sort of Hollywood of a lot of the stuff that happened, I find really discombobulating and ineffective here. I think it comes to a good place. I think the point that it tries to make at the end of the day is a pretty chilling one and a pretty effective one, but so much along the way is just dumbed down for not even, it doesn't even feel like it's dumbed down for the audience.

1:34:29It feels like it's dumbed down for a studio exec. And that's one of my least favorite genres of writing. So I find this, I'll be honest quite frustrating I would probably give it a three three stars in for Nuremberg John Julia Duconale is back she is she's back she's behind you oh my god how did that happen she's like Santa she can materialize she's back back back with Alpha this is of course the director of Raw and Titan yes yes so she is sort of the the French body horror queen in some ways you know she did cannibalism with Raw and I don't know people having sex with cars in Tatan. Less popular Top Gear segment.

1:35:11And this is sort of bringing that sensibility, but in a very different way. It's a very different tone to her, the two films. It's a lot more understated, a lot more sad. It's sort of an allegory for the AIDS crisis. Alpha is the name of the main character played by Melissa Boris, who's a newcomer, 13-year-old girl, who lives in a world where people are essentially suffering from a mysterious disease that turns them to marble. Their bodies just sort of get frozen in time. They become sort of statue-like. And really beautiful sort of effects work that makes this happen. And Taha Rahim plays her uncle, who is a recovering addict, and Gorshifti Farhani plays her mother.

1:36:00it's yeah it's very different if you're expecting to tan which was like an assault on the senses and really quite upsetting and weird and challenging that's not what this film is it's much more like I don't know it's a kind of grieving for the sort of lost generation of the of the AIDS crisis and yeah I found it very moving I found it also a little bit muddled it tries to do a lot it's over two hours long I think some of that could have been shaved it kind of goes in lots of different directions and I do wonder if the body horror elements could have been developed a little bit more and I do think it is weaker just for its slightly muddled approach than her last two films but there's a lot of good stuff there and it is really genuinely moving and it's such an interesting and original take on on the AIDS crisis.

1:36:59So there's a lot of good stuff in there. Oh, wow. Okay, so what did we give it? We gave it three. Three stars. All right. Three stars then for Alpha. And last but not least is Grinda Chatter's Christmas Karma, a new take on Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol. Hell's Bells. Yeah, this is last and least, I'm afraid. So this is Kunal Nayar from The Big Bang Theory as Sood, a.k.a. Scrooge, who is a London businessman, modern day, who's really mean and rich and doesn't share it around and gets visited by a bunch of ghosts. Those ghosts include Ava Longoria's kind of mariachi ghost. I'm not kidding.

1:37:43I wish I were. Billy Porter's kind of gospel singing ghost and Boy George as the ghost of Christmas future. Boy George. Yep. From Culture Club. Yep. Yep. Karma Chameleon. Sure is. Yeah. Is it Karma Chameleon? Did you spot him in this film? I would say no. I would say I did spot him, so I guess not a chameleon. Yeah. But Karma, I suppose. Look, this is the kind of film that has three songs before a single ghost appears. For some reason, the ghost of Jacob Marley is CG'd out of all recognition. I genuinely don't know why they've made that choice. There are some bizarre just choices throughout, like Bob Cratchit living in what I swear to God is a million pound house.

1:38:30Oh, easily. It looks like Paddington's place. Admittedly a little bit smaller than Paddington's, but seriously, come on people. So there are these weird choices. And it's a shame because I think there was the nub of a really good idea here, which is to kind of illustrate Suud's childhood trauma and a history as one of the people of Indian origin who were kicked out of Uganda by Idi Amin in the 70s. and the tragedy and the trauma of that having shaped the character that he goes into. I think that's a really smart and genuinely moving choice. I was moved by those scenes. It's just that the rest of the film is bad.

1:39:08And I didn't love the songs. There's a lot of songs at times and then they kind of vanish and then they come back again. And it just didn't work. I was just, I was not enjoying it. And I feel bad because, you know, during the credits They do the sort of little, you know, outtakes of everybody singing along and having a lovely time making the film. And you want the best for these people. It was clearly made with lots of love and care and probably against all the odds because making a British film nowadays is incredibly difficult. But I just wasn't having a good time watching it. I'm sorry. Yeah, I think that's right.

1:39:42It's like it's got a really interesting premise. I think this is actually, you know, we don't need another Christmas Carol adaptation. Lord knows there are a billion out there. you know, we should have stopped at Muppets. Like, that's fine. But it is an interesting take. Like, to have a South Asian Scrooge is different. And to have a Scrooge who literally does not celebrate Christmas because it is not his religion, that's interesting. That's a perspective I hadn't come across before. Just narratively, that makes for an original take. The problem is not in the premise. The problem is in the execution.

1:40:21and the execution is just really sloppy all the way through. It's just the production values feel very cheap. Some of the acting is not great. Like the songs, Gary Barlow and Shaznay Lewis from All Saints have written some songs and I did not enjoy listening to them. Yeah, it's just not a good film. I mean, it's not quite, I've seen at least one outlet give this film zero stars, which feels a bit mean. If you're awarding zero stars, you're maybe trying to draw attention to yourself a little bit. Quite possibly. But yeah, you know, there are good intentions here. And I think, you know, Gurinder Chadha is a really like, it's good to have her in the sort of the ecosystem of British film.

1:41:17I think it's important she's making films, but I didn't love this. Two stars in for Christmas Karma. And nearly ready to wrap up, hey, hey, hey, the present that has been this week's Empire Podcast. Just one last thing to do, bring you an interview I did with Michael Shannon, who is, of course, one of the stars of Nuremberg. And I caught up with him in Zoom last week. We chatted about the film. We chatted about his performance as Justice Robert Jackson. and we talked about going toe-to-toe with Russell Crowe. Toe-to-toe with Crowe should be a new show. But weirdly, mainly, well, not weirdly because it's me, we talked about R.E.M.

1:42:00because Michael Shannon has a band. He's been a musician for many, many years. And over the last few years, he and his musician friend Jason Arduce have started essentially playing R.E.M. tribute shows. R.E.M. are my favorite band of all time. And so they're traveling around the world playing R.E.M. songs to sundry people. And in fact, at one of the gigs they did in Athens, Georgia, R.E.M.'s hometown last year, they essentially reunited R.E.M. on stage. All four members of R.E.M., Bill Berry, Michael Stipe, Mike Mills and Peter Buck were on stage performing at the same time, which is rare these days.

1:42:42Very, very rare indeed. So we kind of just got talking about that and then didn't stop. So here we go. Here's Michael Shannon talking about R.E.M. and Nuremberg. Enjoy. Michael Shannon, welcome to the Emperor Podcast. How are you? Lovely. Thank you. Good, good, good. I was just speaking to James Vanderbilt, the movie's director, and he was telling me about the centerpiece of this movie, which is his incredible courtroom exchange between your character, Robert Jackson, and Russell Crowe's character, Herman Goering. and he was telling me how you guys wanted to do it almost like a piece of theater.

1:43:19So you did it for real, cameras running, 25 minutes at a time. What was that experience like for you doing that? Oh, gosh. Well, for me, it wasn't necessarily so much a piece of theater as just what it would have actually been during the actual trial. I don't think they would have stopped every eight minutes and said, are you okay do you need some potato chips or something you know that's the pressure that uh that both of these men were under so might as well recreate it if you have the opportunity sometimes i think on films they try to make things uh too comfortable but i don't really think i don't want to watch people being comfortable that's not very interesting yeah yeah because james was saying that he had originally planned to shoot it over four or five days, breaking down into chunks.

1:44:14And obviously he did numerous takes and he was getting coverage from all sorts of different angles. And so you had to do it multiple times. But it was you and Russell who were actually advocating for doing this in the 25 minutes. I suppose the assistant director, who was fantastic, a Hungarian woman named Chilla, she thought it was crazy. because usually on a film you don't shoot that many pages in a in a day you know on a typical film shoot day you you're lucky if you shoot you know four or five pages so she was doing that math and uh but the fact of the matter is is um there's not any movement that you need to worry about because i can't leave the lectern that i'm standing behind and russell can't leave the chair he's sitting in so really the only uh obstacle to doing that would be us and uh i've spent my whole life doing theater so you know as daunting as it might seem to somebody who's only done film to do a scene that long uh for me it's it's kind of still small potatoes at least in terms of the length the thing i was frankly more uh uh anxious about was the the the language because i'm i'm not a lawyer and i've never tried a kid this was my first you know courtroom drama so uh uh some of that some of that jargon's uh difficult to wrap your head around but But yeah, it seemed like the right way to do it.

1:46:01You're a very experienced theater actor. So what is your technique? What is your approach for memorizing pages of text? It's very easy. You just work really hard. Same way you do any other job. You want to be worth a darn at it. You know? You work. It's work. You just look at it. you have to study it you know the same way you would study if uh you want to become a doctor and you need to or let's say you want to be a black cab driver and and you you were i can't imagine these guys trying to get the knowledge right it's insane to me yeah the knowledge uh makes a scene of dialogue like that pale in comparison i don't i don't understand how those black cab drivers although they don't do they still need the knowledge anymore not everybody has this stupid gps i think they can cheat a little bit more than they used to but yeah i still think you to be a black cab driver you still need to have the knowledge and of course london is constantly changing and morphing and streets are springing up and disappearing and i don't know how they keep track of it to be honest and they keep lowering the speed limit they do i mean 20k an hour really i mean that's like sometimes i feel like i'm going backwards so slow that's a very very good point uh are you uh are you how long have you been in london over the years how many times you've been to london i've been to london a lot i was here all summer doing a play at the almeida theater in islington but i started coming here in the 90s So I actually have a godson who's of London.

1:47:45Oh, my God. So you've seen London change as well over the years? I have, yeah. In the 90s, I was staying in Shepherds Bush and Hammersmith over around there. And that's changed a bit. The first theater I worked at here was the Bush Theater, which was originally a pub theater. But now it's in a library. I guess it used to be a library. I'm a huge REM fan and sadly I couldn't see you guys when you and Jason came over here in August I mean you were here already for the play but you did the Fables tour we did and I missed you we did two nights man I know I wasn't here I wasn't around well we're coming back when are we coming back September?

1:48:32next September and that's Live Switch Pageant yeah I think we're playing is there a place called Coco? there is in Camden. Yeah. Yeah. I think we're playing that. As an REM fan, I'm very excited about Live Twitch Pageant. It's my second favorite REM album, Michael. What's your first? New Adventures in Hi-Fi. Nice. I like that one too. We played New Test Leopard a lot on the last tour. Oh, that's a belter. That was one of our second set songs. That's a belter. But I have to say, Live Twitch Pageant has my favorite REM song, which is Coyahoga. Coyahoga, we've played that on the last tour. Yeah, how's that to perform?

1:49:10I love singing all of their songs. I haven't sang a song of theirs yet that I was like, oh, when's this over? I enjoy singing them all. I love this sort of diversion. Obviously, music's been a huge part of your career and a big part of your life for a long, long time. But this diversion into this ongoing celebration of R.E.M. It was completely happenstance. It was a totally random scattershot thing. I mean, I've been doing these shows, these one-off shows where me and my friend Jason Arduce, we pick a record and we play it once and that's it. That was what this was supposed to be. And we do it in Chicago where me and Jason know each other from.

1:49:57And, yeah, we did it. And Jason knows Mike Mills. And Mike Mills came to the concert and got up and started singing with us. and people just lost their minds. And then other people started asking, well, why don't you do that here? And yeah, it never occurred to me. It was completely unanticipated. You said that obviously Mike Mills showed up at a very early show that you were doing in Athens. You were responsible for getting all four original members of REM back in the same stage? Well, I'm uncomfortable with the usage of the word you. I don't know how responsible I personally. If you hadn't been there, Michael, they wouldn't have been there that night.

1:50:49Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was very sweet of them to come. I think, I don't know. It seems to me they have a real fondness for what we're doing. I mean, Peter Buck said something very interesting once. He said, you know, I never get this experience to, like, hear the music without making it, you know, to just, he's like, I always had mixed feelings. I'm paraphrasing, so please don't say, oh, Peter Buck said I had mixed feelings. But there's something to the effect of, like, I didn't know how I felt necessarily about Fables of Reconstruction. but now like getting the opportunity to listen to you you all manifested i'm like oh yeah oh wow that's really something and you know when you're inside of it uh you don't get the same opportunity to encounter it uh that way so because they i know the guys didn't have a great time making that record over here in what i mean yeah well they had to come to london so how could no i'm just kidding um well london the night lady five was a different place it was a very different place man yeah no i think honestly i think uh in all seriousness i i think they were exhausted when they made that record they had been touring constantly for years it made two records that were widely acclaimed and beloved but uh they hadn't made any money and they were still living pretty harsh lifestyle and I think even considering like is this a viable way for us to exist but they banded together and made that record and things maybe not after Fables but they took off eventually yeah absolutely That would have been their first exposure to people who had the knowledge to black cab divers back in 1985.

1:53:02Let's talk about Nuremberg again, because this performance, this character, Robert Jackson, is, I think, you know, if you're talking about it in old-fashioned terms, this is maybe the Jimmy Stewart role. This is the Gary Cooper role. In a way, he's a very, very straight ahead, very decent, a good, honorable, noble man. Yeah, Jimmy Stewart would have killed it. In the past, I mean, not all the characters you've played, but you do have this CV filled with people who are, shall we say, flawed, interesting, rough diamonds. People like Sod, Bobby Monday, people like that, Strickland from The Shape of Water.

1:53:39Do you find that roles like Jackson don't often come to you? Well, it's the first time anybody's asked me to play a Supreme Court Justice. I mean, I just played a Supreme in the last year. I played a Supreme Court justice and a president of the United States of America. I just keep getting surprised in this, this thrilling career. I'm so blessed to have, you know, I've, I've done so many things that I, when they call, when they call me, I'm, I think, are you, you're serious? You really think I'm the person that should be doing this? I don't know. But there's a long list of characters like that that I've played.

1:54:24But it was a real honor to get this call. And I felt very fortunate, frankly, to get the opportunity to walk in Jackson's shoes. He's everything I like human beings to be. He's a very brave man, you know, and, you know, I think there's a tendency nowadays, there's so much horrendous garbage going on in the world that has a lot of us feeling a little down. And there's a lot of people that feel kind of powerless and hopeless and like, you know, I don't like what's happening, but I don't know what I can do about it. and that's why I feel like Jackson is very important for people to see Jackson right now because Jackson said oh no you can do something about it you can totally do something about it it might not be easy you might be met with a lot of resistance but you can do something about it you just have to work really hard and be unafraid of other people's opinions okay that was Michael Shannon talking about Nuremberg and I am looking forward to seeing him and his band play Life's Rich Pageant next year when they come back to London that'll be a lot of fun but anyway on that note that is it for this week's Empire podcast join us next week for more film related fun we'll be joined by Benedict Cumberbatch that's right old Ben and Lynn Cumberbund himself returning to the Empire podcast to talk about his hard-hitting emotionally devastating movie The Thing with Feathers and he'll also be joined by that film's director Dylan Southern and will also be joined by another star-director combo the star and director of Train Dreams yeah that's right brand new film is on Netflix it is terrific Joel Edgerton and Clint Bentley but until then until we meet again until that auspicious occasion it is goodbye from Chex Script my two colleagues of such lethal cunning because James Dyer has indeed exited left pursued by bear.

1:56:45There wasn't a bear but yes, he has. He had to go to a meeting. Pursued by meeting is perhaps if Shakespeare had done a second draft of Winter's Tale and believe me, Shakespeare should have done some second drafts. Oh my God. You're saying Now You See Me series is better than Shakespeare's canon. The worst Now You See Me movie is better than the best William Shakespeare play. Prove me wrong, Silent Bob. Literally just wrong. Anyway, James is fucked off, which leaves just Helen to say goodbye, which she's done in her inimitable fashion. And it's also goodbye from John. Goodbye. Goodbye, John. Thanks.

1:57:30Thanks a lot. In my inimitable fashion. Sadly, all too inimitable fashion. it's goodbye from you and it is goodbye from me as well I'm off to have a word with the writer of this week's podcast seriously you can type this shit but you sure can say it thanks for listening see you next time oh here's Santa again ho ho ho goodbye everybody ho ho ho ho six more weeks till Christmas Day Christmas Day Christmas Day six more weeks till Christmas Day Empire Podcast ho ho oh gosh