Jurassic Street: Cull De Sac (ft. guest, Matt Johnson)

22:42Chris Hewitt:Actually, it does have both. It does, but it doesn't have sabotage by the Beastie Boys. It doesn't have sabotage by the piece of place. I put it to you. Yeah, that's it. That's the one thing we have going for it. Star Wars? Have we hit 13 in Star Wars yet? So good. So we've got nine, 10, eight technically, but yes, nine plus Rogue One plus Solo plus The Mandalorian and Grogu. So we're not actually at 13. Not there yet. All to play for. Well, do we count Battlefront or Battle... No. Battlefront Derf. No, Caravan of Courage. No? Okay. All right. So MCU. I'm not sure I count The Mandalorian and Grogu.

23:15Captain America's Civil War, I believe. Is that the 13th? Is it? I just did a quick look and I think that's the 13th. It's definitely better than The Odyssey. Many of the same people. Yeah. Well. I mean, genuinely. But it's great. One of the same people. Is it better than The Odyssey? I tell you this. If I had to watch one of those films, it wouldn't be The Odyssey.

23:38Chris Hewitt:I can't answer this question. No, I know. You're just too torn. That's fair. I'm too torn. Yeah. It's a choice. You're like Nutty and Bruglia. Do I watch Captain America Civil War again? Or do I watch Captain America Civil War again? It's such a toughie. It's such a toughie. But there you go. And I think that's pretty much it, right? There's probably a couple of hits, 13, but I don't even know what the 13th carry-on was. Carry-on, look at my boobs. I believe that's what it's called. Actually, I know a lot of people who would go see Carry-on, look at my boobs. I would write Carry-on, look at my boobs.

24:13Chris Hewitt:Yeah. I'm surprised you haven't already. I've just finished. That's actually a line for the film. Oh, come on. I'm liking... Hang on. Carry on, don't lose your head. That was like a Barbossa or Sid James. I couldn't really tell. That was King Charles III playing Sid James. I think it was carry on, don't lose your head. That's a good one. Is that the Henry VIII? It's grammatically upsetting. Yeah. Carry on, don't lose your head. Yeah, there's no comma though. Oh, fuck off. Right, so... if you want to have your question read out on the Ember Podcast, you can do so by getting in touch with me on Instagram, or you can sign up at DMs on Blue Sky or Twitter, where I am still lurking to this day.

24:56Chris Hewitt:And if the question's good enough, we will read it out. We may not read out your name. That may get lost in the shuffle. Oh, gosh. But we'll try and correct that in a future episode. Not next week, though, because I'm not here. You're not here? I'm not here next week. So it'll be the week after that we give the person who asked that question their due credit. All right, should we have a little break? Let's. And then we'll come back and we'll talk about what passes for movie news. Enjoy. We are back, folks. We are back, back, back, and it's time to dig deep into the world of movie news. There's not a lot, I'll be honest, but something did seem to break just before we started recording Hell's Bells.

25:34Yeah, well, we were just talking about an article about Barbie 2.

25:39Chris Hewitt:Right. And the word is that they are having trouble, that Warner Brothers are having trouble making a deal because they didn't want to give the cast and crew that much more money, or certainly as much more money as the cast and crew felt was appropriate. And they have so far failed to close a deal. And there is a bit of a ticking clock on this because if they don't do it within a certain amount of time, the rights revert back to the toy company. So they kind of have to get a shimmy on. And apparently there were no clauses for first look options and so on. for the sequel. So even though Greta Gerwig and Noah Baumbach have an idea, have a concept, have a plan for the Barbie 2 script, David Zaslav and the Warner Brothers team have failed to close a deal for them to make it, which is pretty crazy.

26:25I will say this is more common with female-led films than it maybe should be. So if you remember, there was quite a long time before the second Wonder Woman with Patty Jenkins returning was greenlit because they didn't really want to give her an uplift. They may have also read the script, to be fair. But they didn't know at that point it was going to be Wonder Woman 1984, but they just didn't give her the kind of uplift that is absolutely standard in male contracts and is almost not, you know, not even questioned, right? It doesn't seem to happen. There was stories of this all the way back to the first Wives Club.

27:03those three women took a pay cut to get that film made because the studio were like look this is an untried concept these women in their 40s and 50s doing this film like we don't know if anyone's going to go see it we can't pay you all like leading lady fees so they took a pay cut it was a massive hit and then the studio wanted them to do the sequel for the same pay cut and this is the kind of thing that keeps happening again and again in female-led films the same pay cut or the same pay rate? the same pay rate the same cut rate of pay okay And this is the kind of thing that keeps happening again and again.

27:36And it's not great that it's happening to Barbie, a bona fide smash hit that won a bunch of Oscar nominations and indeed Oscars. But anyway, apparently that's the holdup in announcing Barbie 2. If they can't reach a deal, they will have to completely reboot from scratch. They can't use any of the sort of concepts and sort of spin that Greta Gerwig brought to it, as my understanding in the article. So that's going to be interesting. That was in Variety. I'm not sure it's a bad thing that we don't get a second Barbie. I mean, to be fair, they could do something really interesting with it. My worry would be is that Barbie is so, it's such a good film, it's so well executed, it's a great, you know, spin on that idea.

28:18I, it's again, it's my pissing in the pool thing. I almost don't want it to be sullied by an inferior sequel. I maybe would rather it be a one and done. Uh-huh. Yeah. What if they'd said the same about Bond back in 1962? or whatever. We'd never have had Octopussy, which as we've agreed

28:35Chris Hewitt:is better than the Odyssey. James Cameron had gone into that room and started writing Alien on the board and did his little thing with the S and the dollar sign and they went, sorry mate, we're good, one and done. One and done. That's our motto here at 20th Century Fox. Don't piss in our pool. Yeah. Why is he pissing in our pool anyway? Why do we have a pool in the middle of this meeting room? This is such a weird layout. This is where they spend all their money. Yeah. Think James, think. But I'm just saying we would be in a better world now if Patty Jenkins had not made Wonder Woman 1984. Yeah, but you can say that about loads of directors who were automatically given a pay lift for the sequel.

29:10Would we be in a better world?

29:12Chris Hewitt:Definitely. Has your life been affected negatively by the existence of Wonder Woman 1984? Yes, I watched it. Okay. Right. And those two hours you would have spent so productively. 100%, yes. But look, I mean, look, a sequel, more of a good thing is a good thing, right? If you can do that, if you can continue something and make it better, then great. And certain films feel like they lend themselves to sequels more than others. I just think Barbie exists as a really, really nice self-contained thing. I don't think it's screaming out for a continuation of the story beyond its ability to make lots of money, personally.

29:48Interestingly, I've just read that Chris Nolan, Emma Thomas,

29:52Chris Hewitt:Emily Blunt and Cillian Murphy have also not closed their deals for Oppenheimer 2. Oppenheimers. Yeah. So we're denied Barbenheimer 2. It would be amazing. And I would genuinely love if they do make a Barbie 2, that Chris Nolan has to make Oppenheimer 2 and it has to come out on the same day. Two Barbie, two Heimer. Yes, two Barbie, two Heimer. All right. Chris Van Allen, though, is having a relatively good week because The Odyssey has passed the billion mark. It's, I think, 1.12 at this stage. So it's his highest-grossing film. Yay. A long time after his last billion-dollar grocer, which you kind of forget how long it's been.

30:30What was his last billion? Dark Knight Rises. Was it? Yeah. But it's really, really good to see that just because it means, you know, this one really broke through. And also it changes the worldwide chart for this year and knocks some films I didn't like down a little bit. So Michael and Super Mario Galaxy are now, you know, falling down behind the Odyssey, Toy Story 5, and of course Spider-Man Brand New Day at the top.

30:53Chris Hewitt:There's$5 billion groceries so far this year, isn't there? Yeah, yeah. Which is interesting. and you'd assume that Doomsday will become the 6th and there's a chance that June Part 3 might become the 7th, although I don't think it will. I don't think it will. I hope it does, but I don't think it will. I mean, I think Project Hail Mary was, what, 680-something. June 3 is probably around similar numbers. Yeah, I would say so. Hopefully. Where do you think Brand New Day will end up? So Brand New Day at the moment is 1.7 billion. Yeah. It's so funny. and is that's 10 days in I guess 10 days in it's I think it's going to end up around 2 2.5 that's what I'm going to say but that is just a wild fucking guess I know isn't it so it might well become what one of the three biggest films of all time possibly you just you just don't know but it's it's kind of amazing that we're in this situation so yeah if it hits 2.5 it'll become the third biggest film of all time.

31:58Chris Hewitt:So I think that's kind of where it's got to be looking, right? Yeah, fingers crossed. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed, I wasn't on when we reviewed that, I really enjoyed the film, but it's not even the best Tom Holland Spider-Man film, so it is kind of nuts that it's making this kind of money. A lot of people think it is, though. I know a lot of people, they're maybe not in this room. Many, many fine people. And I liked the movie a lot, but I know a lot of people who think it's the best one. For me, it is not the best one, but it's very, very good. Very good film. Very good. Yeah, very good film.

32:29Chris Hewitt:Very good Spider-Man film. Very good MCU film. Ticks a lot of boxes. And clearly, honestly, the success of this movie is really, really interesting to me. Like, where has it come from? Yeah. You know, given that last year, Marvel, we're basically we're in a sandwich board going, come and please see the Thunderbolts. I mean, look, we'll put the Avengers in the title. Would that help? Would that help? That's a really good film. You should come and see the Thunderbolts. Please, sir. Can I have another half billion dollars? I've only made just under half a billion dollars and it's not enough there'll be people watching Spider-Man Brand New Day who will be seeing oh that's a spoiler a character from the Thunderbolts movie for the first time yes and they'll be going who is this character from that movie and they'll have to go back and then they'll go oh man I should have seen the Thunderbolts movie when it came out last year well I just I'm very pleased for Marvel who get to sit back and watch Sony rake in all this money.

33:26They get a little bit. They get a little bit. They get a little kickback. They get a little taste.

33:29Chris Hewitt:A little taste as well. But Sony's doing very, very well. Very, very well. What if it's became the highest-grossed MCU movie? I mean... It's a chance. It's got a chance. It can't do. What can't it do? I just... It would upset me a bit. Just for that, I'm going to see it 500 more times. I bet you will. I'm going to push it over the edge. Avengers Endgame is just shy of 2.8 billion. now it does it's tricky because Avengers Endgame is being re-released next month in September as Endgame Encore now that the fairy fact is called Endgame Encore it has a little bit more footage so they can't add its takings to Avengers Endgame so this isn't like a diddle I was about to say what are the rules on that because lots of re-releases do contribute to the overall box office is it changing the title is it changing because like well the title has changed it's not even Avengers Endgame Encore it's just Endgame Encore Why have they done that?

34:24I don't know why. I don't know.

34:25Chris Hewitt:Well, that's what the trailer was. Certainly the one they showed at Comic-Con. Because I wonder if... Because I would feel, if were I doing it, I would try and add a little bit of cumulative gross to the overall thing to push my numbers up. Yeah, try and get it above Avatar again. Right. And it's not like films have not released different cuts and done that, so... Yeah. I don't know. We shall see. We shall see if Endgame suddenly leaps above Avatar, but we'd have to make another 140 million. It's not beyond the realm of possibility. I mean, it's been a while. People might go back and see it on the big screen.

34:57Chris Hewitt:I can't wait to go back and see it in the cinema. It's very, very exciting. I saw it one or two or nine times when it came out, but I'll probably see it again. All right. Nine times. Nine times. Okie dokie, anything else you want to talk about in the world of movie news? There was a trailer for Paper Tiger this week, which is the new James Gray film, with Adam Driver and Miles Teller playing brothers, Gary and Irwin. with Scarlett Johansson as Irwin's wife, Hester. So she's married to Miles Teller in this. We don't have to worry about her getting divorced from Adam Driver again. So, okay. So it's Black Widow, Reed Richards, and the man who probably turned down Reed Richards.

35:39Yes. They are together again at last. The idea is that basically the brothers got involved in a scheme that was too good to be true. I think Adam Driver seems to be running from maybe mayor of New York or is mayor of New York. I only watched the trailer once and now they're in trouble with the Russian mob who are targeting them and Adam Driver's all like don't worry it's fine I'm the mayor they can't touch me and Miles Heller's like I'm not the mayor they can touch me what the fuck so yeah

36:06Chris Hewitt:well I'm sure it'll all have a happy ending and as all James Gray movies do it always works out for the protagonist always works out they just have the best time so good the best time so cozy we are recording this podcast before D23 probably kicks off. Our Ben Travis is going out to Anaheim to witness it firsthand. He's on a plane right now. I can't help but feeling that the leaked X-Men casting rumors will be confirmed officially on stage at some point during D23. You think? It seems likely at this point because they're leaking like a sieve at the moment. Okay, so leak, James, this is not a force in a sentence, but leak over me, James.

36:45Chris Hewitt:What is, what are the leaks? Well, we've Samara Weaving is linked with Emma Frost at the moment. Yeah, we talked about that. Kit Connors is obviously linked with Cyclops as well. Kit Connors, yeah. There is another from Heartbreaker, Heartstopper. God, I'm mis-saying everything at the moment. Mis-saying? Is that even a word? I don't know what is happening. Should we start the podcast again? Yeah, let's do it again. All right. Bangley Bang! On the Empire podcast this week. He's back for the second time in just a few weeks. What have we had for lunch? We haven't had a Bodine's. What's Bodine's? Well, you should have a Soho special.

37:17Something to do with Five Guys,

37:18Chris Hewitt:lots of sex jokes, the end. Right. The 13th movie by a director. Oh, God. I think it's Lawrence of Arabia, guys, but it might be Captain America Civil War. What was the 13th Soho special you ate? I don't know. I don't know. It was probably the first week I had a Soho special because honestly, guys, you do not understand how good these things were. They were, it was incredible. I feel like we could move back to where we were. Back to where we were? All right. Anyway. So Kit Connor. Kit Connor may be Cyclops. Yes, he may be Cyclops. Indy Navarrete from, and that's probably a weird way to pronounce that name, from Obsession, might be Mystique.

37:50Chris Hewitt:Yeah. And Samara Weaving might be Emma Frost. Yes. Was it Tom Pelfrey as well, potentially? Oh, I haven't seen this one. Professor X. Who the fuck is that? Well, Professor X is... He's bald. He's psychic. I know who Professor X is. Thank God for that. Who is Tom Pelfrey? Tom Pelfrey most recently was in Task with Mark Ruffalo. Set in the Mare of Easttown universe. He's really, really good. And yes, he was in the latter seasons of My Beloved Banshee, Jonathan Tropper's show. He's very good. He's really, really good in task. I would have thought they'd gone for a big name for Professor X. Although they were saying that Christopher Abbott might also be in the running for that.

38:30Chris Hewitt:Who knows? He's a slightly bigger name. Even then, like not super big. Yeah, he doesn't strike me as the sort of guy. I've interviewed Christopher Abbott. Obviously, he was in The Wolfman. But he doesn't strike me as the sort of guy who will embrace franchises necessarily. Yeah, I think that's probably fair. It's interesting. they're clearly skewing younger which I think is the right way to go. I think Kit Conner's a really interesting cyclops because he's so likeable in Heartstopper. I think he's got a really solid, you know, centered kind of energy which I think would be quite good for that role.

39:04I mean, a lot of this stuff obviously is still rumored. It hasn't been officially confirmed but I can't help feeling that they are going to do it and it feels like D23 is the time and place to do it. Yeah, it does. So I'm very excited about this. Even if you're a Marvel skeptic at the moment, even if you do feel that it's a little bit lost its way, the X-Men is exciting. And it seems like they're going for a very young generation of X-Men, which is, I think, definitely the way to go as well. Because I also think you want to distance yourself from... It's going to be weird seeing a young Logan.

39:37That's going to be strange.

39:38Chris Hewitt:I don't necessarily know that he'll be young. Logan doesn't have to be young. No, he doesn't. Logan could be middle-aged. Yeah. And you also don't need to bring him in the first wave. I think you do. I kind of think you do because he's... I mean, I think you're right in that we're not that far away from Deadpool and Wolverine. Hugh Jackman is Wolverine, so it's a really hard thing to do. And especially if you don't go young, then you're putting someone up against Hugh Jackman. And that's a difficult thing to do. I also wouldn't be surprised if Hugh Jackman's in Secret Wars. So I don't think that they'll have a Wolverine in this movie yet.

40:10But it's hard to imagine an X-Men story without Wolverine. I know, obviously, there are many, many, wonderful X-Men. Yes. But Wolverine is the best. I agree, but I still think they're not going to have him in this one. And that may be a sound tactical decision on their part. Yeah, I would say. But yeah, I can't think how, because Hugh Jackman is so synonymous with that role. I don't know how you move on from that.

40:37Chris Hewitt:Yeah, it's going to be tricky. Maybe they don't do it in this movie. Maybe they do it in the next movie. Maybe that's the Christopher Abbott role. maybe yeah he'd be more of a wolverine than a professor x in my head canon obviously we have not seen these people's screen tests we haven't seen their chemistry tests I'm sure this Tom Pilfrey again rumour it was rumoured on a podcast so I mean that could be nonsense no but yeah I'm seeing it on on lots of news here as well I'm sure he's he's been balled up for screen tests and all sorts of stuff and yeah I mean we shall see it's going to be very very interesting the makeup of these characters so you know Mystique Emma Frost these are potential bad guys I'm reading Adam Driver maybe in the mix finally to make a Marvel movie but as a bad guy and what will the team be so if it is Cyclops and it is potentially I don't know if there's a Jean Grey in the mix at some point is it going to be the classic the classic X-Men team that started off in the comics.

41:44Chris Hewitt:Is it going to be that five? Is it going to be Cyclops and Beast and Jean Grey and Angel and Iceman? Is that what it's going to be? It could be something like that. It could be. Or are they going to throw in a Nightcrawler? Are they going to throw in a Storm? There's been rumors about both of those, haven't there? Yeah, there's been rumors that Storm's going to be in Black Panther 3. Well, you've also got to think about the fact that this isn't like we're doing an X-Men movie. It's like we're beginning an X-Men chapter of this universe. and they do want to keep their powder dry, don't they? They've got so many great characters.

42:14You probably don't want to drop them all at the beginning. You do want to pace yourself and you want different stories with different characters and different textures. They are probably portioning them all out and working how these things will fit together. That's very exciting.

42:26Chris Hewitt:How's it going to work? So we have an EX-Men, we have an EX-Men team in Doomsday. I'm sure there'll be an EX-Men team in Secret Wars. It may even be this EX-Men team, but it seems to me like they are going to set up in this MCU world, they're going to set up the fact that Charles Xavier is already in this world, we just haven't become aware of him and he's been slowly recruiting people you know, kids for his school for gifted youngsters and Cyclops, Scott Summers may be one of them and Jean Grey may be another and we get there and there's Beast and there's Warren Worthington and all those guys but how the other X-Men team from Doomsday fits into it, the classic Yeah, the Fox team The Marsdens and the Cummings and the Remains.

43:11Chris Hewitt:Yeah, that's going to be interesting. I don't know how that's going to work out. Because it works in Deadpool Wolverine because it's not really part of the main playing board. But yeah, this brings it all into direct canon rather than canon adjacency. But I still think that... But it's all multiversal, isn't it? Yeah. And I think as a result, Jackman might be in Secret Wars. I can see that. Yeah. I'm talking about new Wolverines, I don't think. Yeah. But we shall see. How they get there, it's not our job to figure that one out. that is for the Russos and Steve McFeely to figure out. So good luck, guys.

43:43Chris Hewitt:Good luck with that one. And of course, Shakespeare, who's directing this movie, this X-Men movie. So we shall see what happens. They are making a sequel to Jurassic World, near the city park, Jurassic World Rebirth, but not with Gareth Edwards, who has dropped out. I heard they couldn't afford him anymore after the jolly they sent James on last time. It's true. Yeah, most of the budget went on my trip to Thailand.

44:08Chris Hewitt:You laugh, but it's probably true. So what do we make of this? First of all, I didn't know that this was happening, so it was a surprise to me when I read that he had dropped out of a film I didn't know existed. Yeah, so it's apparently creative differences, but we don't know what that means. That can mean anything from, they want me to go faster than I'm comfortable with, the script is still three notes on a cocktail napkin with a question mark next to them. or it could mean they want to have dinosaurs flying fighter jets and I just can't figure out a way to do that creatively or anything in between you know it's always a very kind of slippery thing or it may literally just be I don't vibe with this I don't feel where they're going I think that's probably I mean just having interviewed Gareth about it don't get me wrong he was so excited the opportunity to make a Jurassic Park film like it's a dream for him and I think he actually had a good experience doing it unlike say you know Star Wars but equally beyond getting paid a lot of money because you know Rebirth did well I do wonder whether he'd actually rather go off and do something else I interviewed him I saw him in Thailand it was his last ever interview for Rebirth before he was going off to work on other projects and he was so excited at the prospect of just flying home and just on the plane just getting out a blank pad and just noodling ideas you know and I think the creator I think was a mixed blessing for him because obviously it didn't do that well and it was difficult but it was a great film and honestly I would like to see Gareth do more films like that like original films like wild ideas just run amok because that was that was such a great film and it should have done a lot better than it did so weirdly for him I think this is good news for Jurassic maybe less so because I actually think he's really good but yeah I'm really interested to see what he does next yeah 100 % absolutely and also interested to see who they get in for this and you know dinosaurs with fighter jets I think it could work guys just call me yeah sounds good I'll do it I don't care and where's Storm and Wolverine fit into this where do they yeah they're definitely going to be there yeah they'll call it they call it Jurassic World the Savage Land oh my god I kind of that would be that would be kind of amazing oh dear how many X-Men movies do we have to have before we can go to the Savage Land do we think oh hang on What's the 13th X-Men movie?

46:32Have there been 13? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

46:37Chris Hewitt:I'm going to get increasingly high, bitch. We did a ranking. There was about 14 or 15. Oh, because you're including, like, okay, the spin-off-y type of things. You get the three initial X-Men movies. Then there's the four of those. Then there's three Deadpools. Then there's three Wolverines.

46:54Matt Johnson:Three Wolverines?

46:55Chris Hewitt:Three Wolverines. Jesus. Yeah, so we're already up to 13. New Mutants? Everyone. No, everyone. How could you possibly forget that? Well, the 13th apparently was the New Mutants. Oh, that's not it. Is it better than the Odyssey? I don't think it's better than the Odyssey, no. Yeah. But it's interesting, isn't it? The makeup of the X-Men team. If it is the classic X-Men team, thank God that Jean Grey is there. Do you know what, Helen? Yeah. Otherwise, that'd be five guys. Oh, boy. And we're back to this whole special. Yeah, we are. The reason I say that is because this week's guest has directed a movie called Tony, which is not a biopic, but a snapshot of the younger Anthony Bourdain, the brilliant food writer and cook, who, of course, passed away a few years ago.

47:42Chris Hewitt:This is based on his early years. Yeah, he's kind of learning stuff, but despite himself. Despite himself. He goes to Cape Cod for the summer, basically following a girl, and gets a job in a kitchen just to keep himself afloat. and then does everything wrong and is a general disaster of a human being. Sounds good. But maybe there's the nugget of someone great within him. A great cook, a great writer, a great mind at work there. And the movie is, of course, Tony. He is played in the film by Dominic Sessa. He's terrific, isn't he? I haven't seen that film, but I would be amazed if he's not brilliant in it.

48:20Chris Hewitt:And the director is, of course, Matt Johnson, who just a couple of weeks ago director james's favorite film of the year in nirvana the band the show the movie uh director also of blackberry and just a real live wire of a director and uh we sent on soon i think it was a mon warman to have a chat with him a couple weeks ago so here now is that chat do please enjoy uh we are delighted to be joined on the empire podcast by the director of tony mr matt johnson how are you sir i'm wonderful i've been on this podcast for empire before haven't i i think so for nirvana the band the show the movie yeah yeah that's right yeah yeah oh yeah empire's cool nice to meet you nice to meet you and yes you are the director of that film as well which made our list of the best films released in the uk this year so far uh very well deserved i watched it recently had a great time um when did you start to realize that people were really connecting with that movie and what have the last few months been like for you as you see more and more people seek out that

49:27Matt Johnson:movie and connect with it i gotta be honest it's been quite strange because you know i live in toronto in canada and we'd been making that show for 20 years and uh to see the explosion in popularity that's happened just in the last six months has been surreal to say the least um but I've just been grateful. It's deeply humbling that people like that. I mean, it's a group of less than 10 friends who make it. And in some ways, it's like a little private secret. And so it has an outsized reaction based on what we thought it would be. Yeah. It is secret no more. and uh yeah thank you for sharing that with us again it's a really really fun film as is tony i had a really really good time watching this i guess the first place to start with this is what was your relationship to anthony bourdain before this movie a great question and the answer i think is maybe surprising to a lot of people but none i barely even knew who he was like i obviously knew him as a cultural figure but i would say normal nor no more than i would have known like I knew Gordon Ramsey better, you know, like, like, uh, so I didn't, I didn't have, I would say the best way of putting this is I didn't have any baggage.

50:52Matt Johnson:The worst way is to say I was totally ignorant, but I like making movies about things that I know nothing about because it allows me to operate from the point of view of an audience and get curious about what exactly it is that is relevant or cool or demanding of interest of this person or this thing or this process or whatever. Like I made a movie about the first smartphone called Blackberry and I know nothing about that world at all. But, but I view it as a strength as opposed to a weakness because yeah, it's just, there's something that I think audiences want to see. They want to see things from the point of view of a newcomer to that as opposed to an expert because to become an expert at something you kind of need to know everything and and you have to present a point of view that's unassailable whereas what i'm trying to do is is tell a story that is in some ways universal yeah that's so interesting to me because i you're also a co-writer on this movie and this film was based in part on Kitchen Confidential, Anthony Bourdain's book.

52:02How did you zero in on the period of Bourdain's life to show in this film? Because I think that's one of the major strengths of this film in doing that because you, I think, in doing that, avoid some biopic tropes that you could have maybe otherwise fallen into.

52:20Matt Johnson:It's a great point and a great question and I felt like I understood what it was like to be a young man trying to prove himself desperately. And I thought I had some, something to say about that. And when I met Dominic Cessa, I saw that he was going through this exact same thing at this time in his life. And I thought, ah, this is such a great marriage of me having just gone through this myself and him going through it now. And Anthony Bourdain having gone through it in the 1970s. And the three of us can conspire to tell a story about what it means to be a young man becoming an adult and how painful that can be and um and some of the traps you can fall for uh and and so that was that was our goal like let's let's make a movie about just that and when you cast dominic sessor who is fantastic in this just as he was in the holdovers are you say are you telling him to seek out stuff for anthony bourdain or are you telling him not to do that.

53:23Matt Johnson:I told him, don't, I said, don't touch a thing. Literally. I told him not to do anything. Now, of course I wanted him to be comfortable in kitchens. I wanted him to have, um, some, uh, I gave him a copy of kitchen confidential and a few other things that Bourdain had written about this time in his life, which he read. I introduced him to a lot of people that knew Anthony at this time, but he had it like he was ready. I met him in New York city and this is when I wasn't planning on making this movie. And within an hour, I was like, okay, I am going to make this movie. I'm going to make it about Dominic Sessa.

53:58Matt Johnson:And we're ready to go right now. Like, let's start shooting tomorrow because he just had it. Also great. And this is Antonio Banderas as a chef. The first thing I got to ask you that is approximately how many times did Antonio dredge Dominic in water? And how much did he enjoy that? You know what? I hear credit to credit to Banderas. He didn't enjoy it at all. Oh, credit to Banderas. Like he was, he was so, um, worried about how uncomfortable and terrible it was going to be to splash Dom over and over and over again. And sure. He makes it look like he's having a good time, but no, I mean, that was a partnership.

54:40Matt Johnson:That was a partnership. That was one of the harder things to film because we had to do it like 25, 30 times. Jeez. Yeah. Well, that's amazing. his character and the way that he relates to Tony I think is just great he is the guy who helps Tony find his purpose and hone his skills who helped you hone your passion as you were first starting out it's such a great question in some ways I made this movie to honor those people because I myself get so much credit for oddly being myself right As any filmmaker does, it's like, ah, wow, look at you. And I'm so in debt to the people who made me that I wanted to make a film to recognize that.

55:33Matt Johnson:So, look, I didn't have a mentor in the sense that Tony does with Antonio Banderas being both a kind of an almost religious figure in his life, but also extremely stern. But he is an extension of Bourdain's own mother who has standards for him and played by Dagmara and wants something better for him. And that is taken right from my own life. My mom was a major role model for me and in a way that I found very intimidating and tried to get out from under, right? I think my whole history of being such a liar comes from me trying to elude the standards that my mom set for me. And so a lot of that is both in Anthony Bourdain and Dagmara.

56:31Matt Johnson:But then I also had incredible role models at summer camp with camp counselors who were older men that I looked up to as though they were superheroes. I was like, how can anyone be this funny? How can they be so confident? Like this, it was blowing my mind when I was young that, that, that, that this was, this behavior was even available to me. Um, and then even in film school, just the other night, I was having dinner with a friend who in many ways created me. I'm doing, I'm, I'm still doing an impression of him. If you can believe it. Uh, and no one will ever know. No one will ever know. People are going to think, wow, that Matt Johnson is really one of a kind.

57:12Matt Johnson:It couldn't be further from the truth. And although I am extrapolating, I like to think that Anthony Bourdain is not immune to that and that we all owe the people who helped to create us. And that's beautiful. And I think that that's a healthy message for young people to take, which is that look for role models. Look to where your interests go. Why are you interested in this person? Right? Pursue that. like that that's something in you that there's a there's a small voice in your head that's saying this person interests you follow that what is it about them that you like because they are going to wind up making you and uh and so don't take it lightly one thing i just i'm a big nerd for film scores and soundtracks and the soundtrack to this one is just great i'm excited to listen to it properly on this on its own so many great tracks but for you what is the secret to a good needle drop and there's it was it was anything that you had trouble securing the lights to well these songs were extremely expensive but thank god i'm making this for a24 it was the first time uh where i was making a film for uh that was the for a studio that was paying for it that has never happened to me before in my life um a needle drop to me needs to um it needs to match the behavior and the feeling of a scene so perfectly that everybody in the audience goes like almost takes a breath like there's and when you get it right there there's in my opinion there's really nothing like it i think that film is the one medium i suppose dance is actually similar but but for me film is the place where where music can highlight images like nothing else and so every chance I can, I take it to do so.

59:03Yeah. Yeah. I don't think there's ever a bad time for a fifth of Beethoven. And you best believe I was bopping my head to that one. I'm so happy you liked it.

59:12Matt Johnson:That's why my editor, Kurt Lobb is wholly responsible for that. And he won me over with that song. Yeah. It's amazing. It puts that montage so perfectly as well. One of my favorite sequences in the film. um you had a great quote on the feature for this film where you said bourdain's life shows you that you can learn so much from your failures that it helps create you yes you've been a filmmaker since 2013 you made many great films what's the most valuable lesson failure has taught you oh i fail every one of my films i fail do i learn from them i don't know but i i would say the mac the meta lesson is you just never give up on the project.

59:56Matt Johnson:Like, like I've had movies that have been complete and total disasters that I just refuse to close the casket on because like movies are funny because it's a temporal medium. And so like, you don't know, I mean, look at the Nirvana, the band movie, as an example, we shot that web series and it was kind of an abysmal failure. And lo and behold, 20 years later, I'm using the footage from that web series to create a movie where we travel in time between the present and the past solely because of that failed web series. And yet at the same time, I learned so much making that web series that allowed me to then create the movie.

1:00:32Matt Johnson:Like it's such a crazy back and forth relationship. So look, I would say that's the meta lesson. Something more specific. Have the actors say less. like what I'm doing in my edit is almost always cutting out my stupid dialogue and just playing on the faces of the actors, which are so much more interesting. I try to do that more and more as I get older. Oh God. Yeah. I mean, I felt so badly and, and to remember that tomorrow's another day that, that just going to sleep and not thinking that's it, it's over for me. My life is done and I suck like going to bed and, and, and realizing that tomorrow you get to go again but i also don't want to give the advice not to get wrapped up emotionally in your work because i think that's what gives it its power and i wouldn't get so despondent around my failures if i didn't believe that what i was doing mattered so so yeah look advice is a complicated game and i try not to get into it because what worked for me will likely not work for everybody and uh and i'm also a fool one thing i did enjoy with this film the the drive in the theater sequence oh yeah i love it yeah jaws playing did you and the cast get to watch the full the full thing uh did you have a chance with good news and bad news good news and bad news there and that is that because when you're shooting a movie there was a very specific scene i wanted to play on the screen and so i needed to have um my designer loop that sequence over and over and over and over and over and over again and so we did get to watch a section of jaws but we had to watch it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and it was only one 10 minute section so so what we didn't get to spring it up and play the whole thing from the beginning but that's a that's a very famous drive-in theater it's called the wellfleet drive-in and um it's where jaws famously played an entire summer in 1975 because that was the spot amazing amazing i've never had the pleasure of a drive-in i want to experience it at least once in my lifetime but awesome I'm good sure and I believe that is our time Matt Johnson thank you so much for your time it's been a pleasure you have a great day

1:02:47Chris Hewitt:okay that was Matt Johnson talking to Amon Warman about Tony and Tony is out in cinemas right now folks and we're going to talk about it right now because it is time for the reviews section of the show before we get into Tony though I will say don't forget Nimrods a Green Day comedy opened on Tuesday of this week we gave it three stars but I think it's a really really sweet quite funny coming of age comedy with some great music especially of course if you are into Green Day so do check that out and an interview with Mason Temez and the director Lee Kirk is available on this week's episode of The Interviews which is going to be up very very soon also featuring Adam Shankman who's the director of next week's comedy Stop That Train so that is very very exciting and on next week's interviews we have the two drag queen stars of that movie Jujubee and Ginger Minj that was a joyous interview to do by the way so yes looking forward to that but if you are sick and tired of seeing the Odyssey and Spider-Man Brand New Day and Nimrod's Green Day comedy and you're looking for something else to see well this week we got you covered haven't we who wants to take Tony this is as we said Matt Johnson on the story of Anthony Burden's early years as Tony he is a student of Vassar who, when we meet him, is essentially pitching his wildly pretentious novel idea to a literary fellowship board, trying to get money to basically sit and write the great American novel that summer.

1:04:20They see right through him and turn him down, and he ends up basically going to Cape Cod in pursuit of a woman, Nancy, played by Amelia Jones, and ends up kind of, to keep himself afloat, taking a job in a kitchen. and it's Antonio Banderas' kitchen he's just known as Chef basically in this movie and he's kind of horrified by what he sees but also kind of intrigued he kind of finds a little bit of an almost mentor relationship eventually with Chef has a bit more it's kind of a good angel on one shoulder bad angel on the other shoulder Leo Woodall being the bad angel who's basically taking him out to get fucked up every night and shag ladies and generally oh no this sounds

1:05:03Chris Hewitt:terrible I know, you must be shocked. Please, avert your ears, Chris. This is outrageous. Where do I sign? I tell you what's great about this. Dominic Sessa, first of all, belongs in 70s set movies. He's so good in The Holdovers. He's so incredible here. It's the sideburns. It's the sideburns. But he's also just incredibly good at playing these characters who are objectively privileged, objectively lucky. I mean, this guy, unlike the kid in The Holdovers who was abandoned by his family, this kid has a loving family. this kid has every advantage going for him and he's still a dickhead he's a total shitbag and he makes every possible mistake throughout this movie he lies he cheats he steals he is spectacularly unreliable he is a complete idiot and i think that is genuinely the strength of this movie because first of all it's very anthony bordin like he had a very incisive eye in his writing and he turned it on himself as well as everyone else right so it it feels like him it feels like what he would say because it begins with that quote doesn't it where he describes himself as a narcissist and i'm in desperate need of an ass kicking right yeah and that is a hundred percent the kid that we see and i think that um that if anything makes you feel more affectionate towards him because he is such a dick such a dick such a dick but it kind of reminds you of like genuinely being that young and that much of an idiot and having that little understanding of the world that you think this is a valid way to live do you know i mean and it's sort of and there's almost a beauty to that very shitheadedness i genuinely i can't quite explain it but it is there is really something quite touching and innocent about his absolute faith in his own greatness without any sign of any greatness at any point and i find that quite endearing and as the film goes on you do see him get knocked on his ass repeatedly deservedly literally and figuratively and it and it sort of feels like this might be the thing that makes him and this might help so this is not one of those films or those sort of biopics where somebody's going we've got to keep this kitchen confidential kids and sort of like signaling what's coming in the future there's none of that there's there's very very little he is only he's only referred to really as tony he corrects anybody who calls him anthony you know he he is not that guy yet and the film is not sort of tipping its hats over and over again to that guy but it is showing you how this dickhead might one day become that guy and i thought that was a really really clever way of approaching it and he'd be a good wolverine it's you know what he might not be a bad wolverine he Daphne has the sideburns for it.

1:07:48It's also not like a complete Bourdain origin story. It's basically one summer in his life when he went to Providence Town and worked in a restaurant. And yes, a pivotal moment in his life, but it is just one small chapter long before he kind of made a name for himself. I'm not a huge, I didn't have a huge amount of Bourdain knowledge going into this. Did you go to Bourdain school?

1:08:09Chris Hewitt:Very good. I did not go to Bourdain school. I really liked the trailer for this. It had that kind of hazy 70s, almost A24-y vibe to it. Something about it just appealed to me. This, in spite of the fact that it is directed by Matt Johnson. Now, Matt Johnson did Blackberry, which I quite enjoyed, but he also, of course, made Nirvana, the show, the series, the lobotomy, whatever it was, which I think we can all agree is one of the most aggressively unfunny films ever made. And what's interesting about this is when I came out of this and really liked it, all of the people in the office who are massive Matt Johnson fans were disappointed that it didn't feel like a Matt Johnson film it didn't feel like his stamp was on this film but what does that mean?

1:08:53well quite because he does have a kind of slightly wacky zany off kilter sensibility I don't think Blackberry has that it has a bit of that in there it does have a bit of that in there not to the way that Nirvana has in that you know it's good but this doesn't have any of that in it but actually it really works because this has a woozy 70s-y feeling it's almost got this very dreamlike quality and I really, really enjoyed that. It's not a narratively driven story. It's a hangout thing. He's in this kitchen. He's miserable. He's shucking oysters. He's washing dishes. But something about it is weirdly hypnotically compelling.

1:09:29And he, as a character, as Helen said, he is a grade A bellend. He is utterly unlikable. And again, a great bit of casting. What Cesar does is he gives him, first of all, he has a hangdog energy kind of bathed in pathos. and you can't help but root for him even as you want everyone to punch him. And I think that's a really hard thing to pull off. And so actually, I thought this was great. And we, like I say, people were maybe disappointed with the lack of Matt Johnson-ness to it. We gave this three stars. I think that's a bit harsh, to be honest with you.

1:10:01Chris Hewitt:I'd give this four. So you would take the star off Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie? I would take all of the stars off that and give them all to this one. Good movie. Really good movie, Nirvana, the band, the show, the movie. This is also a really good movie. Yay, Matt Johnson. Yay, Matt Johnson. Three stars then. Three stars then for Tony. Hell's Bells, tell us about, there are two more movies to talk about. One is called Lady. She's a lady. And the other one is Sunny Dancer. Yeah. Tell us about those, but don't get them mixed up. I will try not to. Lady is a mockumentary. It's directed by Samuel Abrams, who also lends his name to one of the characters in the film.

1:10:42the director of the film within the film, played by Laurie Kiniston, is also called Sam Abrams. And he turns up with a crew to this stately pile to film Lady Isabella, played by Sean Clifford from Fleabag, etc. And she is this wildly eccentric, weird, slightly sad lady who is convinced she's worth talking about and convinced she's worth people seeing. And she hosts a talent show every year for kids called Stately Stars, as in a sort of strictly stately kind of a thing. Okay. And has decided to enter it herself. So as well as judging the talent show, she will also be entering it. And they're following her as she's trying to find a talent for herself.

1:11:33And it's kind of a ridiculous character study to begin with. And then some weird stuff happens on top of that that I won't spoil. So this, I thought, was already kind of a weird little dude of a film. And then it became an even weirder little dude. This is Dan Stevens

1:11:51Chris Hewitt:in movie form. Yeah, this is it though. It starts as like a Dan Stevens and then it ends up more of a Clint Howard. I think that's a good way of putting it. But it's very strange, but it's quite likable. And there is emotion in there as well. And the documentary maker is wildly conflicted about his own role in proceedings and unethical at times as well which kind of makes it more interesting but yeah I just enjoyed this I wasn't sure what to expect but it definitely wasn't what happened so if you want to be surprised this is the one to see this week what did we give it? we gave it four stars four stars?

1:12:30Chris Hewitt:I'll be honest I might have given that three and Tony four but it's on the borderline so I'm not going to argue too hard with that okay four stars and for Lady Really interesting that that's what it's about. I once tried to enter myself in a talent competition and as a result, I was disqualified. Probably for the best, really. Yeah. Shouldn't be doing that in public. They frown upon that sort of thing. They do. The other film out this week, this other small film, is Sunny Dancer, which is written and directed by Georges Jacques, who is apparently 26 years old. He's another disgustingly young...

1:13:02Chris Hewitt:This cannot be allowed to continue. This is appalling. I'm appalled. Young people should be in front of the camera, like Dominic Cesar. Indeed. Not behind the camera. Well, one such person, in fact, several such people are in front of the camera here. This is led by Bella Ramsey who plays a teenage cancer survivor and her parents, who are played by James Norton and Jessica Gunning, are worried that she's not making friends. You know, her people her own age can't really relate to what she's been through. She can't really relate to what they haven't been through. It's a whole kind of gulf. So they send her away to a camp for teenage cancer survivors up in Scotland run by Neil Patrick Harris.

1:13:39And there she falls in with a group of other kids played by the likes of Daniel Quintoy, Ruby Stokes, Earl Cave. Wow, that's a good cast. Yeah, it's a good cast. And she basically begins to slightly come out of her rather angry shell and tentatively begin to make friends. I will be honest, I could see at least one of the major plot points of this film coming from the summary. And you maybe can too, if you're watching this, if you're listening to this. But I still thought it was pretty effective because I think Bella Ramsey gives a great, great performance here. I think there's a real sense of community and bonding between the kids.

1:14:21They're all just so wonderful and the thought of any kid going through what they've been through is naturally upsetting. So it gets you right in the feels, as they say. It is also very funny. It's just a charming little British comedy, you know, and we don't get too many of those to the pound these days. so I just thought it was well done it's not like I say it's not going to reinvent the wheel it's not you know going to stun and surprise you with its narrative twists and turns but it has its own point of view and I think it does it pretty well

1:14:51Chris Hewitt:amazing what would you give it or what have we given it we have not yet got the Empire review up it should be up I imagine by the time you listen to this I think it's another sort of high three low four for me somewhere in there somewhere in that region we'll find out by going to the Empire website at EmpireOnline.com to find out exactly what we gave it but Helen would be high three, low four for Sunny Dancer. Alright, one more film to talk about this week. It is David Robert Mitchell's The End of Oak Street. Jimbo. Hello. Tell us about this movie. I thought that was implied. Let me send your name in that way.

1:15:28Sorry, you were not specific. Yes, he has got what, roughly a hundred thousand times the budget he had on It Follows but he has made a film about dinosaurs. And the thing that strikes me about this film, before we even get into the story of it, is remember the end of Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom, where it sets up a world where dinosaurs are roaming suburbia. And we were really excited to see where it went, and instead we got Jurassic World Dominion. I feel that this film finally fulfills the promise of that promise and shows us what would happen if dinosaurs ran amok in suburbia. So this sees the Platt family.

1:16:02You've got Mother Denise, played by Anne Hathaway. You've got Father Greg, played by Ewan McGregor, and it's 1982. They're having cookouts. Their kids are riding around on BMXs. Their kids, specifically Brian and Jeanette, and they're having some marital difficulties. He's off delivering pizzas. He's lost his job. They're having some sort of frictions at the home. But all of that pales into insignificance when their entire neighborhood is transported back to kind of the Jurassic era where dinosaurs roamed the earth. and I kind of what's the best part of this is is that while they are obviously transported back in time it's kind of like we are too because it's set in 1982 but it is also a film from 1982 everything about this is like a Spielbergian Amblin homage like everything from the pacing to the plotting to the Michael Chichino score which is very plinky plonky and incredibly Amblin and 80s as they wake up one morning and find there are dinosaurs in their front garden and what I quite like about this from a dinosaur point of view is you see that David Robert Michaud, he's not completely shed his gory attendances, like there's some gnarly kills in this, but all in all, he's done different things with dinosaurs, because I think what Spielberg did with Jurassic Park, unfortunately for everyone else, is ruin dinosaurs for every other filmmaker, because his T-Rex has a specific look and a specific sound and an identity.

1:17:26His raptors, even if they're not, you know, scientifically accurate, they are dinosaurs for us now. And any time you use those dinosaurs, and let's be honest, there's only a certain amount of great dinosaurs to choose from, you feel like you're in Jurassic Park. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm sorry, Helen's going to put one in for the Allosaurus. I mean, come on. But what I really like that's done here is the dinosaurs here have a different aesthetic to them. They feel more rugged. They feel more feral. They feel more savage. They feel more horror. And I think that was a really smart move. You've got the much more sort of feathered-looking raptor beast.

1:17:58The T-Rex looks like some mutant monster.

1:18:00Chris Hewitt:But I think they're recognisably dinosaurs. I think it'll recognize the species that they're meant to be whereas something like the Adam Driver movie 65 reinvented the dinosaurs and so you couldn't really tell what species they were because they deliberately futzed with them they deliberately played with them but here apart from the fact that they have feathers it's like oh that's a Spinosaurus that's an Ankylosaur yeah I can tell what they are You can recognize what they are from a paleontological point of view but what I'm saying is they're not the Spielbergian archetypal dinosaurs that I think we're used to seeing.

1:18:32And I think that benefits this film enormously. And it's fun. It's part horror movie, part adventure. Honestly, it's one of the most fun I've had in the cinema this year, actually. It's a really good laugh. And also, they use some, shall we say, dinosaur archetypes that we're not used to seeing. Yeah. One in particular that I will not spoil, which was a lot of fun and also incredibly upsetting. But yeah, really, really fun film. Great dinosaurs. It feels like the Jurassic franchise has... I mean, I like Rebirth, but I feel like it has been done to death a little bit. And this made me think, oh, actually, there is life in the dinosaur movie yet.

1:19:08And you can do this without feeling like you're retreading Jurassic ground. And that's something to celebrate. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's really fun. I think there are some very funny moments in this movie, but without losing the tension of, you know, people are trapped here and have no idea if they will ever be able to get home. and they don't know how they got here in the first place. There's no real explanation. There's a bit of chat about wormholes and Carl's again, but that's like, that's it. And then they're kind of just trying to survive. And I think it does a really interesting thing because it kind of does, you know, I thought it would be more like the last house that we saw last week, which was with the family stuck in their house, you know, and that was all about how do you survive with just what you have?

1:19:51There's an element of that here as well. They immediately lose power and water and they're just, okay, so what food do we have? But it's less about that and it's more about fuck there are dinosaurs and they're really scary. I have questions about the number of carnivores in a very small area if I'm honest. But we're going to let that aside because it just makes for a movie. It doesn't seem like a sustainable ecosystem. It doesn't seem like a sustainable ecosystem. How are they all finding meat? Do you know what I mean? It doesn't seem right.

1:20:22Chris Hewitt:Well, this is why Bodine's closed. They're coming from a much bigger area outside. Well, but there's like a bit of a cliff. There's a bit of a escarpment on at least two sides. I think there's, well, you know. Maybe all the carnivores smelled them from miles away. Yeah, and maybe we smell like delicious, delicious Soho special to them, I guess. They were like, five guys. The other one was like, no, there's at least 30 or 40 of them. We can eat them all. Well, it's two miles. Anyway, but. Yeah, but I just really enjoyed it. I thought it was very, very Amblin-y. It has elements of obviously like Back to the Future with the time travel, Jurassic Park, obviously with just the fact that there are dinosaurs.

1:21:00Gremlins, Goonies. Like it just feels like very rooted in that time zone, that aesthetic. I think it, but it doesn't feel as slavish and pastiche as some of the Stranger Things and other ripoffs that we've had in recent years have done. This has its own point of view and it feels like it's doing its own thing on top of that. And I really appreciated that. It has that 80s thing of like, how did all this happen? and they're like, it's the 80s, who gives a fuck? And I quite enjoy, there's a layer of absurdity to this, which just feels so of its era. But yeah, it's a really, really fun time at the cinema.

1:21:34And it's a shame that I would say most people probably don't know what this is. It doesn't feel like this is, because this could have been a tentpole summer movie, right? This could have been one of the big movies you're looking forward to. And it feels like it's snuck up on people with a fairly generic title.

1:21:47Chris Hewitt:Yeah, I was surprised by the scale of the movie. I've seen this movie. I've seen a movie, everybody. I've been on for a little while. I haven't seen everything, but I've seen this movie. Went along and saw it last night. And I was surprised by the scale of it sometimes. This clearly cost quite a bit of money. And it feels like it's been hung out to dry a little bit in the summer season. I might be wrong about that. It might do really, really well this weekend. Although it's up against a behemoth that is Spider-Man brand new day, which I guess nobody saw coming. People knew it was going to be a big deal by its third of the game, but I don't think they knew quite how big a deal it was going to be.

1:22:23Chris Hewitt:And the trailers were a bit generic and a bit like, what is this movie? And have we seen this thing before? And there hasn't been a lot of promo for it. So I think it's important that people like us exist and platforms like this podcast exist for us to tell you that you should stop doing whatever it is you're doing right now and rush to your nearest multiplex and plonk down your hard-earned cash to see the end of Oak Street. because this movie is fan-fucking-tastic. It is my favorite film of the year so far. I adored it. I cannot wait to see it again. I found it funny. I found it scary, which is really interesting because I think that one of the things the Jurassic franchise has done over the years is de-scare dinosaurs.

1:23:16Chris Hewitt:First Jurassic Park, they're terrifying. And then it's like, oh, it's a raptor's doing their thing again. and now we can control the raptors and they're our friend. So they're less scary and they have to make up these mutant monstrosities in order to, you know, to frighten audiences and indeed the characters. And this actually makes, put a baseball cap going, M-D-S-A, make dinosaurs scary again. That's what, that's what the end of Oak Street does. David Robert Mitchell hasn't been, hasn't directed for a while. He's about to direct Lay Follow, which is a sequel to It Follows. and the fact that he has had this in his back pocket.

1:23:52Chris Hewitt:Maybe, James, he saw Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom and had exactly the same thought you saw. Maybe. And then when he saw Dominion, he was like, that's not what this movie should have been. And then he went home and he wrote the movie that it should have been. Good for him. And good for him indeed because I think this is beautifully directed as well. I think there are very, very few dud choices that he makes in the movie. He deploys split diopters in a very interesting fashion, but I love it. I'm a big split-by-diopter freak, so I was very, very happy with that. Isn't that one of the dinosaurs?

1:24:26I think it is.

1:24:27Chris Hewitt:Split dioptosaurus. And he makes great choices with suspense sequences. There are some genuine surprises in this film. He does have to tiptoe around the PG-13 restraints quite a bit, but he does it very, very nicely indeed. He sets up the first 20 minutes. I was thinking, my God, the algorithm must be furious with this film because there's no action in the first 15, 20 minutes. It's all set up. It's all character-based. And the algorithm must be going, no, but something exciting has to happen in the first two minutes. Otherwise, people will switch off. But no, not the end of Oak Street. But believe me, all the exciting stuff happens in the last hour and 20 minutes of this movie.

1:25:07Chris Hewitt:It's a thrill ride. It's got great characters that you can root for as well. And it's just great. and it's got a lovely dog as well. A lovely dog called Starbuck. Such a good dog. And such good dinosaurs as well. 14 out of 10 for the dinosaurs. Only a facetious attention-seeking idiot would say things like this is the best Jurassic Park movie since Jurassic Park. And things like this is the best Spielberg movie in decades. But I am a facetious attention-seeking idiot so I'm going to say this is the best Jurassic Park movie since Jurassic Park and the best Spielberg movie in decades even though Spielberg is not involved in this film.

1:25:41Chris Hewitt:I loved it. we gave a four I say piffed and poo poo to that I'm going to give five five Hewitts five out of five Hewitts for this five guys five guys it all comes back to five guys it all comes back to food in the end we are not sponsored by five guys we should be though we should be they should sponsor our live show our next live show we have a live show coming up tell us more Chris we do have a live show Helen why thank you for that very organic segue yes we are doing a live show Saturday September 5th King's Place London it is part of the London Podcast Festival it is going to be an absolutely belting evening there are still some tickets available for that so if you haven't seen an Empire Podcast live show before it is a ton of fun come along and see that and if you have been before then come along and have a ton of fun again it's going to be tons of fun tons of fun all round and we will be sponsored by Five Guys we won't be sponsored by Five Guys no but Helen will personally spring for a burger or a vegan option for everybody in the audience.

1:26:44Chris Hewitt:I will not. Helen will not. All right. We will invite you all down to Bodine's for a sorrow special. We'll meet you in Bodine's. Which Helen will pay for. Oh, poor Bodine's. No, again, no. Just in case they're reopening. I need to make this clear. I mean, frankly, you wouldn't be able to afford them at this point. Oh, come on now. Anyway, so five stars for our live show on September 5th. Kingsplace.co.uk to get tickets for that. And four stars officially from Empire for the end of Oak Street. Ignore the generic title. Just put Jurassic World in front of it and you will be fine. Jurassic Street.

1:27:20Chris Hewitt:Jurassic Street. That's what it should have been called. Actually, is it Jurassic that they go back to? Is it Triassic? Triassic Street. Oh, they should have called it Cull-de-sac, but C-U-L-L. Oh. Cull-de-sac. That makes it sound like they're culling a bag. Yeah, I don't know. because cool is like in that color alright fine Jurassic Street four stars in for the end of Oak Street or Jurassic Street or cul-de-sac if you want to consider that and on that note I think that is it for this week's Emperor Podcast I'm not around next week oh hooray off again is it I will be in Lyon but this is an actual holiday whereas previously I've been working I've been doing some work but I'll be in Lyon next week earning 20 % you will be the Lyon professional yes I will be luckily there are many films to talk about while you're gone so many films on next week so many many films you'll be in safe hands with Helen and James next week and we will be joined by

1:28:25wow

1:28:26Chris Hewitt:we've killed Chris I might not be around ever again by

1:28:34Chris Hewitt:Jane Shunbrun ooh director of teenage sex and death at Camp Miasma. That's exciting. But there's also about 847 other movies out next week. I have picked the perfect time to take a week off. And we'll be joined by some people from those movies, including Jujubee and Ginger Minj from Stop That Train! And they'll be on the interviews. Hurrah! Until we meet again, until then, until that auspicious occasion, it is goodbye from my two colleagues of such lethal cunning. Goodbye, Helen O 'Hara. Toodaloo. Goodbye, James Dyer. Goodbye, Chris. Listen to the Pilot TV podcast. Why, though? Not for any particular reason.

1:29:15Just because it's great.

1:29:17Chris Hewitt:Yeah. Maybe listen to it while you're queuing up to get tickets. Don't listen to it for the past two weeks because I wasn't on it, so it was rubbish. Oh, it improved measurably. A real uptick, a real surge in listeners, I hear. You listen to it. I guess there was one extra listener. It was me. That's exciting. Well done, James. Well done. And it's goodbye from me as well. I am off to go down to Poland Street and just stand outside Bodine's and stare at it, wistfully, forlornly, a single tear running down my cheek. Oh, Soho Special. You were special. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Bye-bye.