K Urban, Your Enthusiasm (ft. guests James Cameron & Billie Eilish)

14:23Chris Hewitt:Is that what he says? Yes. Okay. So who is Barmere's brother? Is it Faramir?

14:29Alex Godfrey:Yes. Not to be confused with Niramir, who's closer.

14:32Chris Hewitt:Oh, my God. James, that's awful. Do you not remember my advice? Neither a Baramir nor a Lendamir being... Oh, boy. Is that advice? That's advice. That's advice. Probably in the Bible. I don't know. Yeah, it is. All right. So, Eamir, how would he do in this urban face-off? I think Kirill would serve him his teeth. Okay. Fairly quickly. I think, I mean, look, he's more of a general than a fighter as far as we know. Like, he can fight. He fights the wargs, doesn't he? Oh, my God. Just because you don't know the text. I know the text. You don't know the text. I read Tolkien. I know the text. I just don't know the films that well.

15:12Chris Hewitt:So, well, it sounds great. The wargs, they're like the wolfy type things, right? There you go. Wolfy wolf. I think Alex is right. It's got to be Dredd. I think I know. Who's beating Dredd? It's fucking Billy Butcher. I do think it comes down to those two. Yeah, but have you... Doesn't he kill like hundreds of people in Dread? Probably. Doesn't he just obliterate everyone in that blog? Yeah, he does a pretty good job because he has his little gun. I'd like to go for that because for that reason and also because I haven't seen the boys. Fair enough. What does Billy Butcher do once he becomes a soup?

15:43He has, for want of a better term...

15:46Chris Hewitt:Does he just fill a bowl?

15:47Alex Godfrey:Orifice tentacles. he has a number of orifice tentacles which extend from his body and can do you a mischief right okay he's also largely indestructible Dred's fucking him up I'm sorry

16:01Chris Hewitt:there's no beating Judge Dredd can't you just shoot him he is the law he is the law to be fair yeah I'm sorry it's Carl Urban as Dredd beating Carl Urban as everyone else so there we go that's that little bit of urban warfare I'm sorry Dredd would win

16:15Alex Godfrey:that's not true it's an urban legend oh god

16:18Chris Hewitt:Anyway, all right. This is an absolutely insane question. I can't promise that any of us will have a good answer to this. But it comes from Murdoch28 on Instagram. Mount Rushmore. Yes, it's a Mount Rushmore of the best farmers in film. This is to tie in with The Sheep Detectives, which is out this week and stars huge action as a farmer. All right. He's kind of a shepherd, but okay. Shepherd, farmer, it's all the same. Angry, angry response. Yes, yeah. Very imprecise. Deeply imprecise. All right, so best farmers on film. Who wants to say the guy from Babe? Yes, it's Farmer Hoggett from Babe. That farm is a freaking idyll.

17:05It just looks amazing, doesn't it? Yeah. Everybody's like, there's all sorts of great biodiversity, you know, lovely collection of animals. he has a pig who can work as a sheepdog I mean you know he gets bonus points for that

17:19Chris Hewitt:and this is of course James Cromwell's Farmer Hoggett from Babe which came out when 1995 something yeah something 95 yes it was because we did a 30 year anniversary thing last year 1995 why the sequel was not called Babe I'm Back Again I have no idea I know what a missed opportunity to have take that record the theme They'll record the theme for anything at the drop of a hat, quite frankly. That would have been interesting. James Cromwell is a really, really interesting guy. I believe at one point he was like a kind of a radicalist. He's still pretty radical, James Cromwell. I believe he is. He's very active politically.

17:57Chris Hewitt:And Babe, I believe, actually made him become vegan. It made a lot of people become vegan or at least vegetarian. Would we count Kevin Costner in Field of Dreams? Yeah. Yeah, but he's a bad farmer. like he does fundamentally pull up a cornfield to build a baseball diamond. And I'm not an expert on farming, but I believe that the purpose is to use your land to grow food, which you can then sell and make money. And therefore that, you know, ripping up an acre of corn or whatever to put in a baseball diamond might be economically unsound, even though psychologically and emotionally very, very valuable.

18:37Alex Godfrey:If you plant them, Helen, they will come. Yes, but the point being, he didn't plant them, did he? Yeah, which is the problem. But then I think if we're going to cast aspersions on people's farming ability, we're going to have problems because both of my choices are objectively bad farmers. Great, okay. We'll get to that in a second.

18:52Chris Hewitt:But also, I would say that Ray Kinsella in that movie is actually a brilliant farmer because he plants a baseball diamond and then grows ghost baseball players, and that's incredible. You can't really eat them. Who says he's got to eat them? I mean, that's kind of the whole point of farming. Nourishment for the soul. It is nourishment for the soul, I guess. You do get points for that. So, I think that's a great one. Okay. Okay. So, that's two so far. We have Farmer Hoggett up there on Mount Rushmore next to Kevin Costner from Field of Dreams. Classic, classic movie. Alex, have you thought of a farmer?

19:26Chris Hewitt:The only thing I can think of is, isn't basically everyone in Interstellar a farmer? I was about to say Interstellar. God damn it. Who from Interstellar was my choice? Yeah, because I saw it two or three weeks ago. Interstellar Live, the Royal Albert Hall, an absolutely fantastic experience. And at that point, everyone on earth is a farmer because no one's got any choice and you have to farm to stay alive. So, Coop, and was it John Lithgow playing his dad? Yeah. And his son, in fact, Casey Affleck. So, you know, I'm not saying they were great. They were just literally farming to live. I have an issue with their farming.

19:57Okay. Because the last time I watched it and it genuinely upset me, even the first time, but it really got to me last time, when they are chasing after the drone that's coming down. and they are ripping through cornfields. And it's like, I know that you want the battery and that that's important, but it is not as important as the huge amount of corn you have just driven through. It is, if it means that that will lead you into a space mission which will save the population of the planet Earth. Yeah, but they don't know that. Which is pretty good farming. But it's not something they're aware of.

20:30Alex Godfrey:See, I'm saying that if you plant your crops and then fuck off into space for the better part of 70 years, that's bad farming. Okay, so that Coop is bad, but the other Cooper family members seem to be better.

20:42Chris Hewitt:Yeah. Also, he does kind of help mankind. That's what I mean. Save themselves. Depends how you define farming. So yeah, his crop is humanity.

20:52Alex Godfrey:I mean, are we talking aura farming? Because obviously that's a very different thing. I mean, you guys seem to be talking some kind of woo-woo religious stuff, so let's not get into that, okay?

21:01Chris Hewitt:Whereas you're like, I want corn, I want milk, that's what I want. I feel like if you're not like, actually producing food at the end of the day. It was just producing ghosts and space programs, you know. You may have fundamentally understood what farming is. Again, I'm not an expert. If I'm wrong, farmers, please tell me so. Wow, what a load of crop. Okay, James, I think I know what your second choice is going to be because you've said coop. I'm going to say something now, just in case, for shits and giggles, I accidentally steal your choice as well. I'm going to say Jonathan Kent. from the original Superman.

21:36Chris Hewitt:He is a farmer. Oh yeah, he's definitely a farmer. None more a farmer. He dies tragically. Glenn Ford, as Clark Kent's adoptive father, Jonathan, dies in the farm. He dies on the lane. I was going to say, I think that's the only time you actually see him doing any farming and it gives him a heart attack. He's a really bad farmer, is what we're saying. So these are not good farmers. But he is the ultimate farmer. I think that's fair. Because he farms a young boy from an alien planet and years later grows a heart attack. He's just got, you know, he's just like he's in touch with the soil and he's given his son the same connection to planet Earth and its people and like small town values and stuff.

22:18Chris Hewitt:Who's the best super dad? Is it Jonathan Kent or Jor-El? Jonathan Kent by a country mile.

22:27Alex Godfrey:Is it nature or nurture? Nature or nurture? I mean, to be fair, Jonathan Kent nurtures him in nature. So he kind of ticks both boxes. Wow. Good line. Jurel has years of video messaging education to... I mean, a Zoom relationship is no substitute. He doesn't have much choice. Save your life. Here's a few years of education. It's like, oh God, yeah, whatever. You're dead and your planet blew up. Whatever. Absentee father. Deadbeat dad. Two plus two equals four. Wow. They really do have advanced mathematics.

23:00Chris Hewitt:some Kryptonian skill. Yeah. Jimbo. Yes. What was your other choice? Who will I pick? Can I guess? You can guess. Mel Gibson in science. It's a correct answer. I thought you were going to say that too. Graham Hess.

23:16Alex Godfrey:Who can doubt the farming abilities? Swing away, Meryl. Swing away. Indeed. No, I was going to choose Luke Skywalker. If we're talking about farm boys, then my beloved Princess Bride is right back in contention. Oh, hello. Hello. Wesley and Buttercup are working on a farm when they meet

23:33Chris Hewitt:okay but what does he farm what does he do he carries around mung beans buckets and you know fetches her you know pails and stuff so do you know have you seen this film yeah he's working on a farm okay does he fetch her pail of water do they fall down she asks him to get a jug from overhead basically wow so it's hot jug action hot jug action amazing it's extraordinary it's a film with everything alright Jimbo what is it about Graham Hess played, of course, by the unimpeachable Mel Gibson in M. Night Shyamalan's Signs that makes him your choice for the Mount Rushmore. He's definitely not my choice.

24:10Chris Hewitt:I'm still going with Luke Skywalker.

24:11Alex Godfrey:But if you like, I can supplant both of them and give you Paulie Shaw from Son-in-Law.

24:15Chris Hewitt:Well, did they farm in Biodome? Oh, is that farming?

24:20Alex Godfrey:I guess it's kind of farming, isn't it? I don't know. Oh, yeah. Okay. We could have a Mount Rushmore of just Paulie Shaw as farmers if you can find another view. Oh, God, no. Pauly Shore, Mount Rushmore might be the end of Mount Rushmore. The three guys who then become three iconic characters in Wizard of Oz who Dorothy is palling around with at the beginning. Are they not farmers? They are farmers. They're farmhands. Are they? That's farmers though, right? I mean, I feel like, I don't know. Who's the farmer? The farmer is her uncle. Annie M's husband. Annie M!

24:51Chris Hewitt:And what does he become in this fantasy of hers? He doesn't feature. He doesn't figure. Yeah? Unless he's the wizard. No, that's the... that's the magic man yeah yeah yeah he doesn't figure so just too busy farming so just three guys they're just farmhands alright forget I'll accept farmhands I'm okay with that I've heard that in lieu of payment I'll accept farmhands alright have you gone for Coop? yeah Coop James you're going for Luke Skywalker I am and I'm going for Jonathan Kent no Ray Kinsella someone mentioned Kevin Costner because there's a chance we could have two Costners on this Mount Rushmore alright we could have Ray Kinsella from Field of Dreams someone chose that was it you?

25:28Might have been.

25:29Chris Hewitt:And then we could have Kevin Costner as Jonathan Kent from Man of Steel. What a time to be alive. Yeah. But given that his death is very stupid in that movie I'm rejecting him and going with Glenn Ford as Jonathan Kent from Superman opposite Luke Skywalker and then Coop definitely Coop ahead of Kevin Costner from Feel the Dreams Alex? For my own liking yes. Okay. Coop and then Farmer Hoggett from Babe I'm back again. There we go. That'll do, pig. That'll do. Thank you so much for your questions. I like this Instagram thing. I might stick with Instagram. You seek me out in there. I'm cthah1976.

26:07Chris Hewitt:I know it's catchy. It trips off the tongue. But seek me out and respond to my panicked or not panicked shout outs for questions every week. All right. Should we take a quick break? Okay. Let's do it. Let's take a quick break. And then we'll be back in two seconds. Two shakes of a lamb's tail. Hey, sheep detectives. with the news section. Exciting. Bye.

26:29Alex Godfrey:All right, we're back, back, back

26:30Chris Hewitt:with the movie news section. Has there been any movie news this week, James, Alex, Helen? There have been trailers, many, many wonderful trailers. Wonderful trailers. Which one should we start with? The Odyssey. Yeah, The Odyssey. It's a biggie, right? I think so. Yeah. So this is the second trailer, I guess the fuller trailer for Chris Nolan's The Odyssey, which is obviously going to be absolutely huge, starring Matt Damon as The Odyssey. but we got a good look at all the other actors. Well, maybe not all the other actors. A lot of the other actors who are going to be in this movie based on Homer's The Odyssey.

27:08So The Odyssey is Matt Damon's Odysseus trying to get back from the siege of Troy after he was instrumental in coming up with the horse idea to help them win it. Which is fucking stupid. Well, it worked, didn't it? Because the Trojans, it was a symbol of the city of Troy, so it was like leaving, you know, sort of like, I don't know, a phoenix in front of Liverpool's stadium, and they'd be like, ooh, a phoenix. Surely it'd be a liver bird.

27:31Alex Godfrey:It'd be a liver bird. Liver bird, sorry, I apologize. Why is it called, why is it a liver bird but Liverpool? Why is it not Liverpool? Anyway, so they leave this symbol, like, right in front of the city, and they're like, oh, they like us, they really like us, and they bring it inside, and then they jump out and murder the guards and open the doors for everybody else.

27:48Chris Hewitt:Spoiler for Troy. Yeah, spoiler for, yeah. The Iliad, I guess. Anyway, so he played a key role in ending the siege of Troy. And they'd been there for 10 years. So they'd already been away from home for 10 years. And then he gets in his boat with his guys and he tries to go home. And you know how it is. Like there's a motorway pile up or a road is closed and there's diversion. You've got to take the rail replacement bus. There's a cyclops and he kills a bunch of you. You've got to like sail between a sea monster and also a whirlpool. You get held captive by the nymph Calypso on an island for like seven years.

28:26it takes him a while to get home. And meanwhile, you have a bunch of suitors trying to marry his wife because they're like, your husband's clearly dead. If he wasn't, he would have been home by night. It's super late.

28:37Chris Hewitt:And also we should mention that said wife is played by Anne Hathaway. I mean, I was going to get into the cast later, but yes, so you've got Anne Hathaway basically trying to keep all these suitors, led, it seems, by Robert Pattinson being a dickhead, away. And sort of, because she knows that the danger is, it's not just about, oh, she has to marry Robert Pattinson. and oh no, what a terrible ordeal. It's also about he will totally kill her son so her son doesn't threaten any children they have. And her son? Her son is, of course, Tom Holland. Tom Holland. Telemachus. I'm sorry, what? His name.

29:11Anyway, he's the son of Matt Damon in this. Matt Damon. And he calls his father Dad.

29:16Alex Godfrey:I can't get on board with that. And it's the one thing in this trailer that I absolutely stumbled over and felt like my face. He's like, my dad is coming home! and you're like what is happening I genuinely if everything else about the trailer was exactly the same and he just said my father is coming home yes no no I don't want to be that you know I am that guy I'm going to say Christopher Nolan if you're listening to this podcast and I know you are he does religiously re-record that line re-record that line but it's all intentional obviously and clearly he goes to himself that's just going to maybe sound old fashioned it's not what I want it's the early ad it's yeah I mean it's literally 3 ,000 years old but also Also, it's not even like fatally old-fashioned.

29:58It's just they are all speaking in a certain level, and that word doesn't belong on that level. Yeah, agreed.

30:04Alex Godfrey:Hard agree. I mean, they have literal gods in this movie. He's going the old-fashioned route. I mean, look, I'm not going to get into discussions about the accuracy of some of the costumes, which some people online are doing. You can go out there and look for that. We're not doing that here. I do think it could be a little bit more colorful, but again, I'm not even getting into that. But genuinely, it's just the tenor of the language elsewhere is not at home with the word dad.

30:27Chris Hewitt:When you said you had no notes. I could. I'm saying I'm choosing not to have those notes, but I acknowledge and respect that they exist. Okay, but what you actually meant was I have a fuck ton of notes. I don't. I just have. I'm interested.

30:39Alex Godfrey:I have three lever arch files, but that is absolutely it.

30:42Chris Hewitt:This is, I thought it was a good trailer. The dad thing's interesting because, yes, I bumped up against it slightly. But then again, they're not speaking ancient Greek. so it's fine and he's made a choice Nolan to have all of his actors using including Matt Damon using American accents which is really interesting because usually in historical epics like this we like our Greeks and our Romans speaking with received pronunciation English accents because that's how they spoke back then I don't care about that but that's interesting and I think so in the context of that I think having a young kid played by a 30 year old man can can work when he says dad instead of father.

31:24Alex Godfrey:He absolutely can't. Because, Giles, you can become kind of accent deaf where you just accept that everyone just speaks as they speak. But it's the choice of language. That really pulled me out of it. I should say I'm really excited about this film. I think it's going to be fantastic. I really want to see it. I don't know that this trailer did it justice.

31:41Chris Hewitt:Do you think?

31:42Alex Godfrey:Yeah.

31:42Chris Hewitt:This trailer didn't... I don't think this is a full trailer. I think there's hints and teases because we've been talking even in our cover feature you know I'm asking him are you going to go down the God's route is there going to be a Cyclops and he's been very much like oh maybe wait and see and this trailer hints but doesn't confirm there's a shot of something that could be a Cyclops I mean it's but it might just be it looks pretty Cyclops-y well I don't think we see the one eye you do we just see the top of our head do we? one big eye in the middle of the forehead

32:10Alex Godfrey:yeah he's kind of a giveaway oh well he's got a little label on his he's not winking it's a little label on his fuck it that says hi my name is Cyclops that's right see Chris was looking for the character from X-Men that's where it went wrong

32:25Chris Hewitt:he's not even in it what are you talking about there's only one movie featuring Cyclops this year that I care about I think that Christopher Nolan's

32:35Alex Godfrey:natural instinct is of course to put as little as possible in trailers and I really do respect that generally I think with this film he can maybe get away with not doing that for the simple reason that obviously it is based on a text that is shall we say accessible to people and has been for a few I don't know, millennia. But then equally, you could have said the same thing about Dunkirk, right? We know what happens. There's actually quite a lot in this trailer, though. I know it's clearly holding a lot back just because there is so much in this film, but there's a lot going on in this trailer, a lot of characters.

33:01Alex Godfrey:But I wonder whether it's twofold, isn't it? On the one hand, it maybe isn't what we've come to expect from trailers, but then I think it's the difference between a director having, and I imagine this is absolute, control over every single frame of the trailer directly, or essentially, the studio's marketing people saying let's put all the fucking good bits in the trailer and just whack it out there which happens with a lot of films not here I think that's absolutely right I was interested that the trailer had a lot more of Penelope and Telemachus than I expected Penelope is the Anne Hathaway character

33:33Chris Hewitt:is the Anne Hathaway character the wife and I first of all super excited about a Christopher Nolan film where the wife is alive that's going to be real real fun but yeah it's you know I didn't expect them to be quite such a sort of key part of the story and it seems like very much like that sort of maybe half or a third. Judging by this, that might not be the experience of watching the film itself. Because the recent Ralph Fiennes movie with Julia Binoche, The Return, was entirely that. It was about Odysseus washing up, finally, on... Ithaca. Ithaca, thank you. And then there's a lot of ass-kicking at the end.

34:10Chris Hewitt:Obviously, there seems to be a big part of that in this movie as well, but then there's Cyclops and giant warriors and whirlpools and goddesses. And we haven't seen everyone yet, but we get a hint of Charlize Theron, who you seem to think is? Calypso. Calypso. Okay, so there's a lot going on. I mean, this is unlike anything we've seen from Nolan before. I'm very, very excited about it indeed. Yeah, me too. Okay, so some more trainers to talk about. Resident Evil. Resident Evil. Featuring stars. Austin Abrams and some other people this is Zach Craig yeah adaptation of the classic video game horror survival horror franchise Resident Evil is it though wait wait wait and the first trailer for it dropped the other day and this looks great yes not terribly faithful to the games

35:05Alex Godfrey:I would say Jimbo any way shape or form in fact if it were not called Resident Evil I defy anyone to have drawn any connection between this trailer and the game franchise. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I think Paul W.S. Anderson, to be fair, he takes a lot of liberties with his. For example, viruses drying up rivers and whatnot. But I think this really seems to have ejected everything from the mythology to the aesthetic to really everything. But I think that's understandable, because if you strip away... Because Resident Evil is so heavily inspired by Romero. If you try and go down that route, then you're going to either end up in a standard Romero-esque zombie film or you're going to go down that weird biohazard-y.

35:47Alex Godfrey:And I don't think Resident Evil is ever at its strongest when it goes through Umbrella Labs and BioWeapons and Raccoon City and all that. It kind of works in a game. I don't think it really works in a film for me. So I like that he's doing something different, but I'm just not sure why use the IP if you're not going to use the IP. Does that make sense? You could have called this absolutely anything.

36:05Chris Hewitt:But we don't know yet. True, from the track. I think he's going to be using the IP in a very, very interesting way. So let's just set up the movie as far as we can from the teaser. Yes. So Austin Abrams, who was really, really good in Wolves, if you remember that movie with Clooney and Pitt, he plays a courier who has the worst night of his, and in fact, everyone around him's life, when he essentially finds himself in the middle of what appears to be some sort of zombie outbreak. or at least monster outbreak monster yeah and it's about him trying desperately to stay alive and early word in this that it is relentless I've seen it compared to Fury Road in that regard the Fury Road of horror people are saying so Alex I thought this looked absolutely terrific this could be 3 for 3 for Sack Greger as far as I'm concerned he's amazing and I James your concerns about not being faithful to the game I hear you do I care no neither do I truthfully neither do I listen that's not what good cinema is about and I imagine there is more to it than meets the eye in this trailer I don't think he would just be taking the IP title and saying who fucking cares I'm just going to make my film and Magnus is going to get made for a bigger budget because I think he I think there's going to be more going on well he pitched this right like he pitched doing this

37:25Alex Godfrey:so he clearly had an idea of what to do with this IP and if it wasn't connected to the IP he never would have pitched the idea he just said I want to do a horror film another one it might be that the film kind of follows the pattern of this trailer which is it starts off very not Resident Evil and then kind of becomes a bit more so by the end. And that would be a really interesting way to kind of do it, you know. I mean, weirdly, I suppose I get a bit stung by this because I'm wary of anything that ends like a Resident Evil ends because they all tend to go down this similar route. Oh, yeah, I'm not sorry.

37:57I don't mean that it ends like the game, but it gets to look more like a Resident Evil. I think if we know anything from weapons is that you have no idea how is that correct. is going to win. That is fair. I didn't play Resident Evil a lot. Sometimes I went around to my friend's flat. He used to play it. I remember a dog scaring me once. And what I think was...

38:17Alex Godfrey:Were those two things connected or were they separate things? We were stalking down some corridor in the game and a dog suddenly jumped out of nowhere. Resident Evil 1. That's right, the very beginning. Very scary. But what I think was great about this trailer is it just worked as a mood piece. It was like, this is the tone. of the film. I don't really care what happens. It's the next Zach Krega film and that's what's exciting as well as all the other films

38:42Chris Hewitt:he's developing. It could be an absolutely relentless horror. Perhaps the ultimate experience in grueling terror which was how Sam Raimi's original The Evil Dead was built when it came out in 1981. And it looks like Sebastian Fanacek who is the director of Evil Dead Burn has taken that as a personal inspiration and wants to clear that bar because the second trailer for Evil Dead Burn came out this week. The Red Band. Holy fucking shit. Holy fucking... I feel like this trailer is less of a trailer and it's more like a micro-dose of all the gore and horror you're going to see in the film itself.

39:23Like, if I watch this trailer enough, I'm hoping that I'll be strong enough to then watch the film. Do you know what I mean? Because there are so many unpleasant things in this trailer.

39:35Chris Hewitt:Oh, I'm so excited. Just, I mean, how does he keep, how does this franchise keep finding new things to do with stuff that should only be used for gardening and not used on people? Yes. Right? And now here we are with yet another gardening implement being put to unlawful purposes. Yes. And don't even get me started on kitchens. I don't think this is a franchise that should be allowed in the kitchen anymore. Okay. I mean, last time there was the cheese grater. It's not allowed in the kitchen or the garden. No. What about the bedroom? Oh, no, that's even worse. Oh, yeah. Okay. So just to set this up very, very quickly, this is the, I guess, sixth movie in the Evil Dead franchise.

40:16Chris Hewitt:The last one was directed by Lee Cronin, Evil Dead Rise. And this is Evil Dead Burn. And there's another one which is already underway and will be out next year directed by someone else as well. Evil Dead Wrath is what it's going to be called. Whether these are all connected and are part of, you know, another sequel trilogy. I don't really know. But of course, this is connected to Sam Raimi's original Evil Dead franchise, which contains, of course, the greatest movie of all time, Evil Dead 2. I am very, very excited about this. I'm always slightly nervous slash skeptical about a new movie in this franchise.

40:48Chris Hewitt:And this trailer absolutely blew me away. It seems to be about a family gathering in an old country home. So it's not a cabin in the woods. It's not a high rise like Evil Dead Rise was. and there they get attacked by deadites. Yeah. And it seems to be a little bit more family-related than perhaps some of the Evil Dead movies have been as well, but we still have some eye-catching set pieces. The first teaser for this movie, which I wasn't on the pod for when you guys discussed it, was Cracking, so it features the, I guess, the hero of the film, whose name I believe is Alice, played by Suelia Yacoub and it was a one-er where she was crawling through this house as all manner of horrible things was happening to her and to other people around her.

41:43Chris Hewitt:And this really does pile it on as well. The opening of this is fantastic where we see Alice and Hunter Dewan as her brother come racing into the house panicking because they've just seen something horrific and then that something horrific arrives. And from there, the tension and the gore seems to crank up. It seems a bit spoilerific, I will say. I think it gives away the fate of several major characters, this trailer. But listen, I'm all in for a just utterly relentless, gore-soaked thrill ride in Evil Dead Burn. I'm buying up for it. Did you guys concur? Yeah, I mean, it's true, isn't it? Evil Dead, in its original incarnation, was very much Bruce Ash versus the Deadites.

42:26but now they are expanding it in a way that is seamlessly, endlessly broadening it out while somehow retaining, you know, what it is that makes it unique in the first place. I still don't really know what this film is, but it looks fun and gory. There's a real self-awareness about it, I think, and it looks really, really, really brutal. It's really gnarly. But I guess this thing, the last Evil Dead film, especially the have been pretty much straight out really gnarly horror films. They've kind of dropped the whole Sam Raimi, Three Stooges vibe of it. And that looks like pretty much to be the case with this trailer, except, like I say, there's a self-awareness about it.

43:08There's a knowingness about it. It's like the humor is, the violence and gore is so extreme that it might be funny in a darkly comic way. So I think there's that ingredient going on as well. The sort of Chekhov's dishwasher of it all.

43:22Chris Hewitt:the wackadoodle kind of Looney Tunes live action Looney Tunes nature of as you say Alex the three stoogies of certainly Evil Dead 2 and Army of Darkness there's a bit of humor in the Evil Dead originally but the Evil Dead is a pretty intense movie pretty nasty yeah very nasty movie and Evil Dead 2 and Evil Dead 3 or Army of Darkness are lighter affairs more comedic affairs third one is a comedy yeah third one is absolutely a comedy and that doesn't seem to be the case for any of the directors who followed in Rami's footsteps whether it's Fede Alvarez or Lee Cronin or now Sebastian Fanicek whose last movie Infested was about spiders in a high rise so I haven't seen it but I'm going to check it out I hear it's really really great I'm really really excited about this this trailer has completely and utterly got me flipping for this movie so yes please for Evil Dead Burn I don't think we discussed this last week Nicolas Cage and Osgood Perkins are reuniting for Long Legs 2 which has been given a release date of January 14th so just two days after my sister's birthday 2028 so that is exciting interesting because hmm how do I say this without spoiling Long Legs Long Legs in Long Legs didn't seem to be Long for this world legs It's a horror film.

44:52Well, it turned out he had legs, you see.

44:54Chris Hewitt:And he used them to run away from death. He used them to stick around for the second one. Yeah. Legs. Oh, I see. Very good. Yeah. So this is Nick Cage returning as the creepy, satanic, serial killer, Long Legs. The first movie terrified a lot of people. it had a lot of hype as being one of the scariest movies of all time I think Oz Perkins sees it as a dark comedy in many ways as well but it is a very very creepy movie it's got some great jump scares also and a real really unsettling sense of dread but it all hinged around a sense of mystery around Longlegs, who he is who he was, what he wanted Alex and now we know vaguely what he is how can this movie work?

45:44Well, maybe it could be a prequel. This might be his thing on, you know, similar to what Zach Greger is doing with Gladys, the prequel to Weapons. You know, Gladys was only in what didn't come into at least the second half of that film, I think. But she stole the show so much so that they're making a film all about her. Maybe that's what's happening here. I mean, Long Legs was a good film and a creepy film. and the main story was these was if i remember rightly it was the mother and daughter story right but long legs was the you know nicholas cage's performance obviously that was the most was the thing that stuck with you visually and vocally um yes it is a black comedy because how can you not laugh at what nicholas cage is doing in that film as well as being scared and i don't know i trust those two people to do something insane i don't know what it's going to be, but more of Nick Cage doing that character is good with me, that's all I know.

46:44I mean, it kind of seems like you could make a film just based on those questions. Can you, like, what if he's not the only long legs, as it were? Like, what if, you know, what if there is a supernatural or a weird element, and there's a whole bunch of them out there?

47:00Chris Hewitt:That could be interesting if they did that.

47:02Alex Godfrey:Jimbo, are you a fan of long legs? I do, I do like it, and I'm happy to see more. I don't know where it will go, but the first one was batshit, there's no reason why this one shouldn't be as well

47:09Chris Hewitt:yeah alright exciting stuff new issue of Empire is out Jesus should we we always have a show shameless plug which we do a deep dive every month this is special because it's the best issue of Empire

47:23Alex Godfrey:that's ever been made oh boy so this is why we must demonstrate demonstrate this is why we must dedicate the next three to five hours on the cover feature which is the greatest

47:34Chris Hewitt:piece of editorial the magazine has ever I don't often do this but please don't buy this issue No, of course, do. Do it. Buy it in multiple, multiple copies.

47:43Alex Godfrey:Why should they do that, James? Because it is the Aliens 40th anniversary issue, and it's when I completed life, by which I got on an hour-long Zoom call with James Cameron, Scorny Weaver, Jeanette Goldstein, and Michael Biehn to talk aliens. You completed life.

47:54Chris Hewitt:They completed life, because they got an hour with a fucking nutter. They did, yeah. Did they get a word in? No, it's extraordinary.

47:59Alex Godfrey:I talked at them for an hour solid and didn't let them speak. It was wonderful. Yes, but I know you made it, but did you know? Yeah, did you know this? And they were like, yeah, but, but, but, but.

48:10Chris Hewitt:What was your I think you'll find count? Oh, so many, so many. Well, Jim, I mean, you say that, but actually.

48:17Alex Godfrey:No, it was, it was, it was glorious. It was definitely the high point of my entire existence. Were you nude? I was. Yes. And covered in Swarfaga. Yeah, very much so. I am telling the West Wing feature on you. My God. Oh, yeah, you spent a lot of time on the West Wing feature. I did, I did spend a lot of time. I hear it was good. Yeah, it was all right. But yeah, this is wonderful. and I think Alex is fair to say it is the greatest issue of Empire that's ever been made. Certainly this month. Yeah. No, it's brilliant. This was a dream plan we concocted a few months ago. We realized that Aliens was 40 years old this year and thought...

48:50Using maths. It would be... Calendar. Thought it would be incredible to get some or some of the key members of that gang back together. Alien Queen said no. Sigourney said yes. James Cameron said yes. And we got Michael Biehn. We got Jeanette Goldstein. and you had an amazing hour with them. I did. And we supersized it. It's a 14-page feature.

49:12Alex Godfrey:14 pages of me banging on about aliens. What's not to love? It's a lot of fun.

49:17Chris Hewitt:All right, there's loads of other great stuff beside the issue. Of course, we will do the deep dive and the shameless plug, but very, very quickly, what else is in the issue? An amazing interview between Tom Hanks and Tim Allen. It's not an interview. Our writer, Ollie Richards, got them together for... or much of an hour talking about playing Buzz Lightyear and Woody, surname unknown. The cowboy. Woody the cowboy. Yeah, to Mr. and Mrs. the cowboy, his son Woody is pretty. He does have a name. Does he have a surname? He does have a name. I read this the other day that he has a name and I've instantly forgotten it.

49:50Well, it's not important for this article. The fact is, I think, that Toy Story 5 is coming out in cinemas. For years, we've wanted to get those two together to talk about playing Woody and Buzz and we finally did it to talk about Toy Story 5 and all the other Toy Story films and their magical partnership on and off screen. It's an amazing read. We also have a feature on Scary Movie, that whole franchise and the return of it. John Nugent went to Rome to sit down with the cast of The Boys for a big roundtable talk about the final season of that show.

50:20Chris Hewitt:Carl Urban as Billy Butcher, who gets killed by Judd Stratt. Yes, he does now. We have an amazing feature on AI in which we speak to a lot of people in Hollywood about the pros and cons of AI and what's happening. Written by Chachi PT. Yeah, it was very quick. And we did a great photo shoot with Naomi Aki about her career and her upcoming roles in I Love Boosters and Clayface. She was an amazing person to talk to, and it's a beautiful photo shoot. That is the feature section. There you go. And it was a fantastic issue. There are other amazing things in there. Find out what they are by picking up the latest issue of Empire Magazine from all good, evil, and virtual news agents right now.

51:01Chris Hewitt:Buy it. Consume it. love it pay our wages you lovely people thank you so much indeed shall we have a guest? let's shall we have two guests? cool yes shall we have the director of the biggest film of all time? oh my god and one of the biggest musical stars on the planet? what? our cup runneth over? yes that's right it is of course James Cameron and Billie Eilish who have teamed up in unexpected fashion for a concert movie in eye-popping 3D. This is a movie depicting the Billie Eilish Hit Me Hard and Soft tour, which, Alex, you went to see. Not the whole tour, but I went to one of the concerts on the tour in the O2 in London.

51:46It was an amazing show. She's a brilliant songwriter, but also an incredible performer. I have never heard a crowd that loud in all of my years of going to gigs. that was Beatles' Shea Stadium Decibels. It was really something else. And, you know, she's quite, not so much anymore, but for a lot of her career, she's been quite an understated singer. Performer, yeah. But the crowd, like, hollering and bellowing, like, shouting these whispered lyrics out so loud. And it was actually quite joyous to witness. Amazing show.

52:21Chris Hewitt:And so this film is a version of that, but with Cameron's 3D technology utilized in really, really interesting ways. Yeah. and it's a fascinating fascinating documentary we'll be talking about it is it a documentary

52:33Alex Godfrey:yeah it's a concert film

52:35Chris Hewitt:but it's also part documentary as well a little bit tiny bits yeah talking to her and getting inside into her process and there's a cute bit with some pups but Alex who is a massive fan of both Billie Eilish and James Cameron went along just the other day and talked to them and I've listened to this and it's a very good interview thank you very much very good indeed oh no your bits were terrible but their answers were excellent I can't stand you. Here we go. Billie Eilish and James Cameron. Two names I never thought I'd say in tandem on the Empire podcast. Enjoy. James Cameron, Billie Eilish. Hi.

53:10Hi. How are you doing? You had a premiere last night. We sure did. How was it? Was there a party? What happened? Did you see the film? I've seen the film, yeah. I saw it yesterday afternoon. You weren't there last night. No, I wasn't. Everybody was singing along, but the film is so loud you couldn't hear them. We hear the people singing in the movie. We don't hear the ones singing in the theater. But the premiere was wonderful. It was amazing. It was cool. The first the world heard about, this was the first I heard about it, was, Billy, you were in Manchester and you said, well, you announced it there pretty casually on stage that you're going to be filmed and Cameron is here and he's filming it.

53:46Jim, do you remember that moment? Oh, yeah, sure. And what was that like? And were you able to just bob around unnoticed? Oh, yeah. People don't expect to see me, so they don't. They don't. It's not like you can't go anywhere without a bag over your head. Yeah, I mean literally, literally, yeah. No, but it was, look, I had stuff to do that night, trust me. We had 17 cameras running, and I was watching all the feeds and kind of trying to get the best out of every shot and every setup that we could. So it was, I mean, it just goes by like a blur because it's such sensory overload. But we had four nights, so the mistakes, you know, we didn't make a lot of mistakes, but we were always trying to improve from night to night to night across the four nights.

54:36You know what the hardest thing on this movie was? Getting you to wear the same outfit four nights in a row. Yeah, that was horrifying. Yeah, because the first time— But I did it. You did it. You did it. Because we filmed four nights to make sure we got everything. We had four nights in Manchester, and Jim was like, you're going to have to wear the same outfit because we needed to have continuity and you have to do your hair the same. And holy shit, did I fight that? You did. But I did it though. I did it. Were you proud of yourself? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's just, I don't, yeah. But it ended up working so well and it felt so good.

55:13So I'm happy about it. I saw the film yesterday. I was at the gig at the O2. So I had seen the show. It was amazing to watch it again. and I think one of the main things the film gives you is it makes such an enormous event intimate okay which is exactly that was the goal yeah that was our primary goal it really was in this I found it very emotional I mean the songs are emotional anyway seeing you Billy sing them sing them at such close quarters and the crowd not just singing them but the connection all of the crying. Yeah, I know. And in that sense, I mean, it looks spectacular. It is emotional and almost dramatic in the way that, you know, movies are.

56:02Was that something you two had discussed about wanting to take people on an emotional journey or did that just come through as a part of it? I think it emerged. I think, yeah, I think it did. I think it just came out naturally. Yeah, but the thing about cutting a documentary of any kind, I mean, obviously this was the show, it was non-fiction, it's non-scripted. At first we just started with this idea, we're just going to bottle the show essentially using modern 3D technology. And then we sort of got a little ambitious beyond that to get behind your eyes, get into your creative process a little bit.

56:39Not historically, not like going back in time, but just kind of the day of. But it definitely was about finding that emotional connection, what does it mean to people? Because I think when you see the fan commitment early on, it almost feels a little pop culture-y in a way, but then you start to realize the deep resonance between them and Billie and how her music has gotten them through for many of them the hardest times in their lives. And then you realize that it's a deeper meaning. And as beautiful as the show is, there's also this thing underneath it. And then when you see them crying, to me especially as I watch the film, in the back half of the film I have a deeper appreciation of what they're feeling and why they're having such an emotional reaction.

57:33Yeah, it really comes across. Yeah. Jim, I know you asked Billie to co-direct because she knew the show back to front. But also, obviously, Billie, you've directed some incredible music videos. had jim had you seen them and did you get a sense of what billy's direction was like from them no i i knew that you had a really you know strong uh visual sense you see it within the show yeah because you were behind all the graphics and the imagery the choices of all that stuff so it seemed like just a natural thing for me billy you so as i mentioned you've directed quite a bit before. You worked on this together.

58:11How harmonious was it as a collaboration? Because you're both extremely strong-minded, strong-willed people who know exactly what you want. How did that work together? It's a good question. We figured it out. I was just saying this, like you just said, two people who are very strong-willed and have a very specific way that they want things to go and how we want things to look. And I think it was like a good challenge for both of us to allow someone else in in that way. And also like let the other one take the wheel at certain points was really kind of amazing. And I feel like I learned so much and saw things so differently and through your eyes in ways sometimes that I didn't expect.

59:06And like just saw things through a new lens, which was really like kind of unexpected for me. Of course, in hindsight, I'm like, yeah, of course that happened, but I guess I didn't think it necessarily would happen the way that it did. Well, I made a deal with you, and in so doing, I made a deal with myself that I would never try to prevail in an argument. I would state my case, but I would never seek to use my reputation or whatever to prevail. because if something was important enough to you to push back on, it was important for me to understand it because, as I've always said, this was your creation.

59:51Some shows are created by other people and the artist kind of exists within it. That's not the case here. This is Billy's show from scratch and you were drawing from everything you had learned from your previous tours and applying all those lessons, being in the round, always being at the center of the audience as opposed to projecting to an audience. All of the things, all of your principles. So I made myself this pact that I would always step back from being the top decision maker. I was pretty clear, if you were working on an Avatar movie, if you want to - Oh yeah, girl, I wouldn't even try.

1:00:35If you want to come play a Navi, that's going to be a different deal. Yeah, obviously. But you did win with the no costume changes, though. You did win the outfit. That's true. Well, we went through stages. Yeah, we did go through stages. All right, how can we creatively use costume changes? Open mind. You had a real open mind for all of that. We tried to make that work. And then eventually, I mean, the thing about you is sometimes you'll have a knee-jerk reaction of no, and then you'll think about it, and then you'll come back later. and we'll meet halfway. I don't want to make it sound like it was contentious.

1:01:10It wasn't. We really had the sense of driving hard in one direction, which was to capture that sense of connection, which was the first thing you said, the intimacy, the connection with the audience. But it's easier said than done. So I had to use everything I've ever learned over 44 years of doing this directing thing to figure out how to do that. Did you see Billy as part of the lineage you've had of putting these incredible women at the front and centre? I mean, obviously it's a completely different context. Absolutely. Well, you're part Sarah Connor, you're part Sigourney. When I see somebody as assured and confident but also vulnerable and self-questioning it's like no you're just fascinating I mean you know I just I just I think of you as you know another sort of prototypically fascinating and powerful woman it's just that you're not fiction you're the real deal thanks Jim yeah how do you feel about that but I mean had you seen all these films were you and have been inspired by these course I mean yeah of course I think yeah the first I hadn't thought of that until I did an interview was like the first interview about this film and this sweet girl who was interviewing me said that about like Jim makes so many films with these powerful female characters and you seem like another version of that and I was kind of like oh yeah that's actually really true and and it's like uh yeah it's true it's just not fiction it's like real it's just real life um and it's pretty amazing to be grouped in with that kind of i want to see what you do on your on your movie where you're starring in a starring in a film that's going to be a fun challenge you like challenges i'm not worried about you well there is i mean i take it you've seen a lot of billy's music videos but i mean that is acting you are genuinely as far as i can see it you know you're playing roles and characters in those music videos yeah um so you it's like you've been gearing up to move into that for a while is that what it's felt like to you at all i guess yeah i don't know i think i'm just i love a new challenge yeah but you there was a point where we're trying to figure out how to get the camera in front of you i would have put it between you and the audience and i said hey no problem we'll just do we'll just do a concert with no audience.

1:03:44Alex Godfrey:And you're like, no, we're not doing that.

1:03:45Chris Hewitt:We're not doing that. We're not doing that. It's disingenuous. You know, I mean, look, there's always acting involved in any kind of performing, but you need that feedback. That's what drives you. Well, it's more just like that's the point. That's the point, right. Performing isn't acting to me because it's the connection between the – more like I'm not talking about acting at all right now. I'm literally just talking about the show and how the reason for that, because it's a good point that they were like, oh, we'll do pickups. You know, we'll just do the show, but without an audience. And I was like, no, no, that's not what there's no point to that, because the only reason we're filming this show at all is because of the audience to me.

1:04:30And that's the only reason I do the show is because of the audience. I wouldn't do it if there wasn't one. And it's not because I need an audience for people to cheer for me. It's because music is about that connection. and to me like performing is about sharing your passion with other people's passion you know and that that kind of feeling in the room being in every single person is like nothing else in the world it's just the most magical thing in the world and like as a concert goer I feel that way you know it's just like there's nothing like that and so it was important to like capture that specifically.

1:05:09Yeah, I remember the meeting where we brought that up and you said, nope, that's not happening. And I thought, hmm, okay, this is gonna be really hard. This is gonna get really hard. So we solved it. Technically, we use these robotic cameras called a G-toes that could get along the kind of the baseline of the stage, but everything was an up angle. And to get those beautiful, there's some gorgeous close-ups of you in the film. We're shooting those from 150 feet back on an 800 millimeter lens. We're talking about natural history photography of like bears, you know, and you can't do that or Antelope, beautiful Antelope.

1:05:47Yeah, no, I know. I know exactly what you're talking about. And you can't get good 3D from a distance. So we figured out how to do that. Catch Billy Eilish in the wild. Yeah, we went to these hyper stereo super long baseline systems, and then we used AI to reintegrate the background so that it was fusible by the human eye. And that's how we were able to get shape and dimension in you at a range that's impossible. So it literally drove us to build new technology. Now we'll use that on football games and basketball games and stuff like that, thanks to you saying, nope, ain't happening. So you see how things work out?

1:06:26All right, nice. Well, it's an incredible piece of work. It was fantastic to watch it, And thanks so much to both of you for talking to me about it. Thank you so much. Good questions. Thank you. Thank you.

1:06:35Chris Hewitt:Okay, that was Billie Eilish and James Cameron talking about Billie Eilish, Hit Me Hard and Soft, the tour live in 3D, which is out in cinemas right the futtick now. Let's discuss it because we're right into the reviews section of the show. Helen, I thought this was really, really fascinating. I'll be completely honest. I am completely detached from modern popular music. I don't really know much of Billie Eilish's work. I know the two songs for which she won Oscars, one for Barbie, of course, one for No Time to Die. Spoiler alert, only one of those is played in this movie. Yeah, I thought that was interesting.

1:07:15Chris Hewitt:Yeah, so I was even more slightly on board and trying to discover her in real time as I went along. But I was really, really fascinated, really taken in by this movie. What did you make of it? Yeah, similar, actually. I know the music maybe a little bit better, but I definitely didn't know every tune here. I was not like, oh, yes, well, that's obviously a track from the third album. Fantastic. So I thought it was, you know, it was interesting. I didn't really know her particularly well as a performer, although I had seen her Glastonbury set a few years ago where she was amazing. And what struck me then and what really struck me this time and what I sort of sat there kind of trying to unpack in my head is what an interesting place she occupies in the pop landscape.

1:07:55and I think this is the kind of thing that this film really brings out and it's one of the things that Cameron discusses with her because they, I mean, in this film, I feel like there's only probably 15-ish minutes of interview, right? About max, I would say, about 15, 20 minutes in a two-hour film, just under two hours. It is very much a concert movie more than a documentary but I think he does really get to the points I kind of wanted him to ask about which is, you know, her energy on stage as a performer, she honestly reminded me of like like classic Eminem she reminded me of like the Beastie Boys when I saw them and they just ran around the stage for literally like three hours non-stop that's kind of the energy she's giving in the first half of this performance and a couple of points after that and she would but she also can just slow it right down and sit there cross-legged and sing a ballad with her audience she can conduct them like a conductor and they know they don't just know the tune, they know the sort of the descant part and she can sort of harmonize with them, which was just astonishing to see.

1:09:01And I think Cameron did a really good job of capturing that rapport that you were talking about, Alex, between her and the audience and the emotion that they feel without just, you know, lingering on crying faces and, you know, this is Beatlemania kind of 2.0 kind of thing. It's not that simple, but he really got into what it is that they feel about her and what it is that they kind of connect to. And I think it's the fact that she is so versatile because, you know, look, love and respect Taylor Swift. Please don't come from the house. I'm not going to critique her. She's an incredible songwriter.

1:09:38But she's much more kind of normal than Billie Eilish, who goes on stage literally dressed like Eminem back in the day, like gigantic shorts like 16 jumpers at once like she's Joey in Friends and but can still deliver love ballads you know in the middle of that and it doesn't seem incongruous because she is just that broad of a performer do you know what I mean? And like all the eras also shows width and depth please don't come for me but I just thought that was a really fascinating thing that she doesn't feel that sort of Dua Lipa urge to be gorgeous and hot all the time. that she is defiantly herself and kind of just showing this kind of versatility of music as well.

1:10:25I thought it was really, really interesting. And the little bits of insight that you get into her personality, I thought were really, really fascinating and just well chosen. I also just really like the way he shot it. It just looks incredible. I was lucky enough to see it in the Odeon West End Lux, which we know is James Cameron's favorite cinema in London. It's really good 3D there. other cinemas are available. But I think the 3D worked really well. It did give you that kind of immersive concert experience. And her light show was also tremendous, and it looked really, really good in that format.

1:10:59We should emphasize or re-emphasize that they both directed this. He approached her to direct it because it's her show. She'd already been on the road for months and months with it. But also, she's directed a bunch of music videos. They've been really, really, really good. She's completely prodigious, extremely skillful. and obviously she was on stage for the gigs. This was filmed over four nights, the co-op arena in Manchester. And then in Phoenix as well, apparently, bits and pieces. Yeah, for bits and pieces. But they planned it together. As he might have said in the interview, he had 17 cameras, and these cameras are on stage with her, not totally blatantly.

1:11:38Sometimes she has them herself. He has cameras all over the place. He's manning the cameras himself, and they do bring what can be, you know, a static, you know, when you're watching a concert, regardless of the atmosphere, you're standing still with one view watching it. And this one never stops moving and not in a way that makes it annoyingly frantic or over-edited, but it's just capturing every angle and it's epic when it needs to be and it's big when it needs to be and it's very, very small and insipid when it needs to be. And like you say, it really captures the connection between her and the crowd.

1:12:10And there is that one moment in it where she records some of her vocals for a loop that will then be played back the rest of the song and she's like, this is the only time in this gig that I'm going to tell you to please be quiet. That was cool. And I believe it's about 10 ,000 people in the co-op arena. You cannot hear a pin drop. Did she do that and the O2? Yeah. I mean, I think it was pretty much the same show every night. She did. And you can see, I mean, I think towards the end of the set she does the Barbie song. What was I made for? I think. and everything quietens down. It's such a beautiful, sad song.

1:12:47And she gets down because she plays in the round. So she's got people on all four sides, which is one of the reasons why she's running around so much because she's playing to all sides of this place. She's not just Axl Rose running up and down in the front. And she gets down and the crowd, I mean, it's not that messianic, but they're all reaching out their hands. She's touching their hands. It feels it. It really feels it. And you really, Cameron and Billy both do a really good job there of showing how an artist does connect with the people that are watching it. And I can't think of many concert shows that do that.

1:13:17The 3D is really, really effective. And it's more to just say that, oh, you feel like you're there. It does just add another level to it that brings it to life and makes it pop out. I mean, it's blatant, obvious thing to say, but it does make it pop out from just being a flat screen experience. It just makes it even more immersive. It's a brilliant job. I mean look if you're not a fan of Billie Eilish or not interested in music you may never well see this you may never see this film

1:13:44Alex Godfrey:you say that but we sent Ian Freer to watch Taylor Swift's era tour the concert film thing in the cinema and he came out a massive Swifty so maybe this will turn you into a massive it may happen honestly yeah it's absolutely upped my fandom no I'm not saying you won't like I mean the thing is the key word we sent Ian Freer he didn't go seeing it of his own accord I'm just saying I don't know how many people will go out you know this weekend to go and see it if they're not fans but But if you do, I think you will at least, you know, you might really, really like the music and become a fan. But otherwise, you will really appreciate the technical skill that is going on here to bring a concert to life on a screen.

1:14:20I think it was really, really brilliant work. It sounds like you guys are in the four-star camp. Yeah, easily a four-star, yeah.

1:14:26Chris Hewitt:Yeah, easily a four-star then for Billie Eilish, Hit Me Hard and Soft. All right. Next up, The Sheep Detectives. Hit them hard and soft. Alex. Alex. Is this a good film or a bad film? It's a good film. Okay, good. And it's certainly better than I expected. It's a film called The Sheep Detectives. It's about detectives who are sheep. It sounded to me like a kooky proposition. And I wasn't sure who it was aimed at or what it was made for, to paraphrase. The Irish. but the most intriguing thing about it at first glance and the first thing you should know is this is written by craig mazin yes he of chernobyl fame yes he of the last of us fame um that's amazing recently he has been doing those shows very dark intense brutal very adult dramas this is a film about sheep who are detectives.

1:15:30But it was a passion project for him. He's been wanting to do it for years and years and years, and I think he first wrote this draft a long time ago. Now, back then... It's based on a novel, right? It is based on a novel. It's based on a 2005 German novel set in Ireland, Go Figure, called Three Bags Full, written by Leonie Swan. I haven't read it. Craig Mason's had a fascinating career. I believe he wrote on the Hangover sequels years and years ago, and then he plied a trade writing, let's face it, awful spoof movies, but then came out of nowhere with Chernobyl and Last of Us, and now this is his next thing, and I'm not going to say that it bridges all of those things together, but it is a very unique and unpredictable mix of tones and emotion.

1:16:22Hugh Jackman plays a shepherd who just really loves his sheep not that way Chris and he reads them murder he reads them murder mysteries at bedtime because they just love these stories and they all crowd around him and he's very loving and affectionate and they love being read to and then pretty soon on I don't think this is a spoiler this is the conceit of the whole film he turns up dead and it's a big mystery the next thing to know is Was it homicide? The next thing to know is that the sheep all talk. To each other, not to the humans. Not audibly to humans, but they can talk to each other in the English language.

1:17:06And they then set about going to find out who done it. And there is a long list of suspects. It took me on a journey because for the first hour, I've got to say, it is twee. It is a very gentle murder mystery, not worlds away from Thursday Murder Club. Not as cretinous. No. More likable. Similar color tone. Similar color tone. And what was not totally working for me is I wasn't finding it all that funny, but it was watchable. And then something happened about an hour in when the plot really starts to kick in and it becomes more dramatic and the stakes get bigger. And I don't want to go into detail.

1:17:58I'd love to know what you think, Helen, because for the last half hour or maybe 40 minutes of this film, I found it really quite profound and a lot more stirring and certainly a lot more touching than I'd expected. by the end of it I was really quite emotionally taken by it and that caught me by surprise yeah there were some nice emotional bits I'm not sure I'd call it stirring I I thought it was I thought it was cute I thought it was nice I think it's going for an almost Wallace and Gromity yeah certainly babe influenced tone

1:18:33Chris Hewitt:have you mentioned the director yet I don't know if we have but it's Kyle Boulder who did you know Minions and things like that so he's got more animation experience behind him than live action. But that kind of makes sense because, of course, all the sheep in this are CG, or at least predominantly CG. And it sort of helps, I guess, with all of that. I guessed really early on who'd done it, and I never really wavered from that, which is very unusual for me. Most who'd done it make me at least doubt that. Does it matter in this film? Is it meant to be, is it glaringly obvious? No, it isn't. I don't know that it's obvious because I haven't talked to many other people who definitely guessed it early on.

1:19:09But I think, I don't think it's funny enough for it to be that easy to guess. That is true. I wouldn't say it doesn't matter, but my takeaway from the film was not that. My takeaway was the themes it explores. And without getting into spoiler territory, it explores the concept of death and the afterlife more than I was expecting. Yeah, that stuff was nicely handled. Yeah, and that's what it left me with. and that's what I went away thinking about and being affected by more than the whodunit of it. I think this is, I thought it was nice. I thought it was nailed on three stars and never more than that.

1:19:46Chris Hewitt:And that's what we've given it, right? Okay, fantastic. Three stars then for the sheep detectives. Next up, Mortal Kombat 2. We started talking about Carla Urban. Helen, Kay Urban, your enthusiasm? Curb your enthusiasm. Yeah, no, I heard it. Yeah, it certainly is a film. So this is... Oh, my God. This is a sequel to, what is it, 2021's Mortal Kombat? Yeah. Which pretty much starred Louis Tan as his character in the films. I saw it last night and I'm struggling to remember. Hang on. He was, of course, I think as we all know, Cole Young. Okay. Yes. James is refusing to help you out in this. That's fine.

1:20:29Yeah. I don't deserve it. Yeah, so he was kind of the lead of the last film, but they've kind of shifted focus this time. So it turns out that there's kind of like a big evil realm that goes around swallowing up other realms. And the way to win a realm, because the gods put rules in place, you can't just have a big army. That would be unfair. You have to go around and beat the champions of the realm you're targeting like 10 times in a row.

1:20:55Chris Hewitt:Should we explain what Mortal Kombat is for people who haven't seen it? I think I just did. So you basically got to fight the champions of the realm you're targeting to conquer, and you have to beat them ten tournaments in a row. Right, okay. And you've got like six, five lives each, and you got to beat them five times.

1:21:12Alex Godfrey:And this is, of course, based on the video game series, which is a fighting game from the 90s, which was made famous because it was live-action video, kind of, the graphics, and it was the fatalities, the gory fatalities. This Mortal Kombat series is still going. There are still fatalities in it. There are, gosh. It's gorier than ever. Finish it. Finish him. Him. I know, I mean the franchise. Oh, I see. Okay. Terrible. Get over here, I believe is another one. That's right. That's Scorpion. I got very excited when, yeah. Anyway. Yeah. So anyway, they've kind of pivoted this time. So the idea is that there's going to be this tournament.

1:21:42There's this big, and I use the term literally, he's like nine feet tall, this big evil emperor dude who has a name.

1:21:50Alex Godfrey:Shao Kahn. Shao Kahn. I haven't seen the film. Shao Kahn, voiced or performed by Martin Ford. He is a Shao Kahn. Yes. Sorry, come on. He has already conquered a land and killed the king and adopted the Princess Katana, played by Adeline Rudolph, as his own daughter and forced her to be his fighter. She's not a fan. She's not happy about it. Her best friend is Jade, played by Tati Gabrielle, who's also not super into the whole thing. Anyway, they're all lined up. Earth, however, has to get its champions in place because they are next on his list. So Lord Raiden, who is not a brand of sunglasses, he's played by Tadanobu Asano he has to gather more champions including of course Johnny Cage which brings us to Carl Urban who is a washed up martial artist turned actor he's now the kind of person who nobody asks for an autograph at Comic Con and he's kind of

1:22:47Chris Hewitt:I don't think that actor exists by the way I'm not sure I believe that either but anyway he is he is basically forced to get back in the game in order to save the world. Right. So no pressure. Is Josh lost in this? Because he was the best thing about the first movie by a mile. he was killed in the first movie but as luck would have it, death is no bar to this movie's call and there are necromancers around. There's so many character names. I'm not even going to bother.

1:23:15Alex Godfrey:Shang Tsung. I mean, okay. I don't think he's in the film. He is in the film. He's played by Chin Han. He brings people back to life and most of them come back as horrible revenant guys but he doesn't care enough about Kano which is the Josh Lawson character so he just comes back as himself and he's very funny. He gets, I would say, 90 % of the nine laughs in this movie.

1:23:38Chris Hewitt:So there's seven and a half? I don't know. Eight and a bit? I just, it certainly was a lot of things that happened in front of me. There are, look, there was at least a bit more Mortal Kombat in this film than I think there was in the last one. Yes, because the tournament wasn't

1:23:52Alex Godfrey:in the previous film at all, was it? Yeah, it was sort of setting up to that, wasn't it?

1:23:56Chris Hewitt:This is the same director as well. Who directed this? This is directed by Simon McQuoid. Oh, it's the same director. Yes, the same director. Basically, we have all of these people who have to fight each other one by one. And if they live at the end of the fight, then they get to do another fight. Well, whoopsie-doo. And the plan is just to stop the bad guy from conquering the world. So there are a lot of fights. these are very CG heavy fights even when they're between two ostensibly human people there are monstery types as well which I can understand where there's CG and I think the problem with that is if you're going to do fights between CG figures you have to be really really good at your VFX and a lot of this just feels like weightless shit and I understand that it's based on a video game and that they are mimicking the specific moves in the game and things like that.

1:24:49But they are, like, the laws of physics do not apply, like, at all to any item or person in this film. And so it kind of does give you a sense of I don't give a shit about all of the fight scenes. You know, you're watching a guy with a magic razor hat and you're still...

1:25:06Alex Godfrey:Ah, Kung Lao. And you're still bored, you know? Because, like, the magic razor hat is just flying its own thing and not obeying any kind of laws of physics. Liu Kang. Yes, I remember that, yeah. He did seem to be a talented martial artist, by the way. Liu Kang, of course, I think as we all know, played by, I don't know. I'm having so much fun. This is amazing. Helen, your enthusiasm is dazzling. Ludie Lin, Ludie Lin. Yeah, playing him. Look, I know I'm not the target audience. I know I didn't play the games. But there's so much going on. There are so many characters to give their little heroic or whatever moments to that even though Johnny Cage is the ostensible lead of this film, he's maybe in 25 minutes, you know, because everybody else has to have their fights and everybody else has to have their moments.

1:25:54And there's just so much noise. And there's a bit where they go to the underdark from Dungeons and Dragons. And it's just there. And it's like, and again, it's a completely CG environment with people using completely CG effects. And it's just like, why is all of this happening? It is weightless. and I found it a little bit pointless. Now, I did have some fun laughing at this. I don't think I had as much fun laughing with it. Like I said, there were nine or ten laughs. So those were fun. But most of the time I felt like I was laughing at.

1:26:31Alex Godfrey:It's Sub-Zero in it. It would be a spoiler to say that. I see. As you remember, Sub-Zero was also probably killed in the last film. But again, no barrier to anything. But the grave is no barrier to its soul. Zero now, plain zero. Is Sub-Zero your star rating, Helen? No, look, I've seen worse films probably, I think. I just don't get it really, I guess. And look, my husband had fun and Amon was sitting on the other side of me and he was having a lovely time and everybody was really whooping it up. So I guess if you're a fan of Street Fighter, well, I mean, probably. Yeah, they're pretty much the same.

1:27:08Street Fighter looks really good though. It looks the same as this. it looks less CG that is true and the lack of CG-ness might be a good thing and the haircuts are much more extreme in Street Fighter so I look forward to those but I just I really did think this was very silly and this comes from someone who reads a lot of books with dragons on the cover you know I should be in for this cod fantasy nonsense but it really is

1:27:36Alex Godfrey:Amon bestowed upon this three stars I take it you dissent from this opinion I would personally have been like a star lower, but I respect that he knows the game in a way that I do not and that people who go to see this are probably going to be more forgiving maybe than me.

1:27:52Chris Hewitt:Sounds great. Yeah. I really... Fatality. I had a blast with the first one, but then again, we were all very depressed.

1:28:00Alex Godfrey:It was in the middle of the pandemic. We were starved for entertainment. We'd have watched fucking anything.

1:28:07Chris Hewitt:Including Porg Porn. Yeah. Or Thrawn Porn, you know, either. Oh, no. Oh, yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, we've given this one three stars then for Mortal Kombat 2. That may be my favorite Helen review in a long time. You were actually in physical pain describing that movie. There's so many people, and I don't care about any of them.

1:28:31They were in a pit with spikes. I felt like I was in a pit with spikes as well.

1:28:35Chris Hewitt:Oh, good stuff. All right, did you have a better time with the final movie this week, which is on Netflix? and for which I interviewed Sally Field, the legendary Sally Field, and Lewis Pullman, also in the interviews this week. Remarkably bright creatures. I had a better time, but maybe I think a less good time than you did, maybe. So this is... I thought it was sweet. It's a sweet movie. What's wrong with you? Do you have no soul? Wow, harsh. This is based on the novel of the same name by Shelby Van Pelt, and it is about... It is narrated by an octopus who is... Is this true? This is true. Already better than Mortal Kombat.

1:29:14Chris Hewitt:This is 100 % true. It's voiced by an octopus played by Alfred Molina. So we found talking sheep, but that's fine for these guys. No brain guffaws of laughter for that, but once a talking octopus... I know. Jesus Christ. And octopuses are objectively smarter than sheep, probably. They are. They can solve puzzles.

1:29:34Alex Godfrey:What can sheep do? You would be too if you had your brains in your arms. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, so anyway, he lives in a tank in an aquarium that is not the Monterey Bay Aquarium but it's very similar and he one of the few people he likes is Sally Field who is a cleaning lady who comes in at night and you know wipes the finger marks off his window cleaning woman and so basically then a young man played by Lewis Pullman comes to town looking to reconnect with the father he's never met he's Cameron and he meets Tova the Sally Field character he desperately needs money to fix his van that he lives in so he takes a job as a night cleaner when she gets a bad injury and can't do her job.

1:30:12They meet and kind of start working together rather reluctantly, at least on Cameron's part, and gradually strike up a sort of a friendship over this octopus that they're both kind of looking after, among other creatures, of course. And then there's a whole bunch of stuff happening in the town and there's like tragedies in both their backstories. And they're both clearly very damaged and lonely and sad people. and it's a question of whether this octopus can bring them to some kind of new level of happiness.

1:30:42Chris Hewitt:Marcellus. Marcellus is the octopus, yes. It's all very nice and twee, and I think I just struggled a little bit with the tone which I found saccharine. And this is directed again by? This is directed by Olivia Newman, who also adapted the book with John Whittington, who's worked on, he's worked on a bunch of animation, Lego Batman, Lego Ninjago, Sonic the Hedgehog and stuff. She in the past has done things like Where the Crawl Dads Sing and First Match. I just find it a little bit cutesy and I think I struggled a little bit. There's nothing wrong with that. Look, hey, I've watched seven seasons of Gilmore Girls.

1:31:29Do you know what I mean? I have a high tolerance for cutesy, but I think it was something about the octopus narration in the early scenes that I was just like, oh, I'm going to struggle with this. I will say it did get better. It grew on me during the course of the film. I thought it was going to be disastrous in those opening scenes and it got steadily better.

1:31:47Chris Hewitt:Well, Avril Molina's narration. I love Avril Molina, but something about the narration I just find a bit ridiculous. And I like octopuses. I think they're great. But something about it just didn't work for me. Dr. Octopus. Very good, you see? Hey. They didn't just throw this shit together. Back together again. Yeah. Befriending Aunt May, no less. Yes. Oh my goodness, this is like that storyline where they got married. This is the multiverse. Whilst the sentry looks on. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it's all happening. Meanwhile, in Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey, Batman is trying to romance Catwoman and possibly kill Spider-Man.

1:32:31Oh my God. It's all happening.

1:32:33Chris Hewitt:I had a better time with this than you, Helen, but then again, I have a soul. What? But also, I'm very undemanding. And a bit dim. I like an undemanding Netflix nonsense. Like, I watch Christmas movies on purpose. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, but you have a podcast. You have to do that. Yeah, but, you know, I have a tolerance for schmaltz. I just, something about this, it took a long time for me to, you know, get into it. That's all I'm saying. All right. But I really did struggle at first. What would you give it? I could see my way clear to a three, I guess. It wouldn't be a high three, but I would feel like kicking an octopus otherwise.

1:33:11You know what I mean? And nobody wants to do that. Man. Like, you know, it's not moral combat, is it? Yeah, because what if they grabbed on and your foot's just gone?

1:33:22Chris Hewitt:You'd be flung. Flung, liberally flung. Does this octopus predict the World Cup results at any point? You know what? I don't think he did. No. Fucking useless. Missed opportunity. Yeah. Real shame. Real shame. This octopus, of course, went on the star in Oldboy. Very, very exciting. So we give this one, maybe three. We're not sure yet whether we have an official Empire review, but we'd give it three. Three stars in for remarkably bright creatures. And speaking of remarkably bright creatures, that's us. Hurrah. The Empire podcast team. And that's all you're going to hear from us this week because that is it for this week's episode of the Empire Podcast.

1:34:00Chris Hewitt:Join us next week for more film-related fun when we'll be joined by... Haven't decided yet, but it'll be either Bob Odenkirk, the great Bob Odenkirk, Saul Goodman himself, star of the new Ben Wheatley action movie Normal, or Ian McKellen. Oh, yes. Who is a star of Steven Soderbergh's new movie The Christophers. The Christophers. Well, that name almost seals it, doesn't it? So good. Bob Odenkirk. Is it about who is

1:34:31Alex Godfrey:the best Hollywood Chris?

1:34:32Chris Hewitt:Is that what the film's about? Yes. It's just him arguing. Definitely. Before they all decide that it is. Because he deeply cares. Ian McKellen's super into. Of course he does. Pine. Is it though? Evans. Hemsworth? Walken. Walken.

1:34:54Chris Hewitt:He's a Christopher though, not a Chris. So is the film. that's fair that is true that is true and according to my mum I'm a Christopher so Saint Christopher and to me you're a Christopher patron saint of travellers hmm okay yeah not much you can do with that is there let's move on then it'll be one of those two wonderful wonderful gentlemen but for this Empire Podcast that is definitely it until then until we meet again until a suspicious occasion all that remains is to say goodbye to my three colleagues of such lethal cunning goodbye Alex Godfrey Goodbye. Goodbye, James Dyer.

1:35:30Alex Godfrey:Finish it. Goodbye. Listen to the Barla TV podcast. Steve Coogan's on a Monday. It's great fun. Oh, yes. Very good. Oh, ho. Did you do that? No. I'm sure he'd love that. Because he was on talking about legends on Netflix. I'm sure no one does that to him. I did do an interview with Shahzad Latif once, and my microphone wasn't working, so I did legitimately have to say, can you hear me? Can you hear me? I don't think he found it funny, but it was a legitimate question, because he couldn't hear it. It's a legitimate question. It's totally fine.

1:35:57Chris Hewitt:All right. Can you hear me, Helen O 'Hara? Can you? I can, unfortunately, yeah. Bye. Toodaloo. Toodaloo. Toodaloo. And it's not toodaloo for me. It's to the dentist. Is it safe? No, it most certainly is not. Thank you for listening. See you next time. Bye-bye.