Kruegersplaining (ft. guests Celine Song, Dave Franco & Alison Brie)

25:56Chris Hewitt:Oh my God, it's not coming back from that. The Peter Leon girl. From us. then we had Sidney Prescott from Scream 3 hey hey I am a Scream 3 purist it's my favourite one is it? I love it really? two words my friend Parker Posey well yeah but we're not putting Parker Posey up because oh I don't like what happens to her in that film I don't like what happens to her in that film it's just such good camp fun I love Scream 3 I love it so much anyway I'm so glad we found the one person who likes Scream 3 this is amazing alright so okay fuck it Sydney Prescott from Scream 3 is on Mount Rushmore then it was my choice which was Laurie Strode I'm going with the original Halloween that's her incarnation up there on Mount Rushmore and then we're going for Samara Weaving's Grace Gladys Grace what is going on I'd love to find a girl called Gladys.

27:04Talk about a black white old lady. Gladys is the final girl.

27:09Chris Hewitt:Hitting Freddy Krueger with a handbag. I feel like there's an Edgar Wright film in there somewhere. There probably is. All right. Okay, that's a good Mount Rushmore. I'm happy with that. Oliver mentioned Melissa Bevereva in recent screen movies. Oh, yeah. She's great. Yeah, great. She's great. She rocks. She does rock. But is she a final girl? Well, Jenna Ortega as well, I guess. yeah core four the core four yeah well fuck it we just put those up in the mouth and just be done with it unbelievable alright should we have a guest yeah alright if you want to have your question right out blah blah blah okay so who do you want do you want should we have Celine Song should we start with Celine Song yeah Celine Song obviously shot The Prominence a couple years ago with I'm going to say the name of this film wrong I'm going to get names of these films wrong I've gone from up to us or us to up I'm going to say past tense.

28:03Chris Hewitt:I know I am. I know I am. I've got to stop myself. Past lives. Past lives, which was absolutely terrific. Put her on the map. And now she's back, back, back with Materialists, which stars Dakota Johnson as a dating expert who, if you watch the trailer, is torn between her choice. Do I go with the multimillionaire Pedro Pascal who wants to woo me or do I go with the slumpy kind of, you know, normal guy, Chris Evans, who wants to woo me? The movie's not really that at all. It is and it isn't. There's a lot more going on in Materialist than the trailer might have you believe. And we sent along Harry Stainer.

28:47Chris Hewitt:Harry Stainer to have a chat with Celine Song when she was in London last week. I haven't heard this interview. It might have gone disastrously wrong. I'm told it didn't. So here we go. I have no idea what they talked about, but you're about to hear it. Do please enjoy. We are delighted to be joined on the Empire podcast by Celine Song, director of Past Lives and Materialists. How are you? You okay? I'm good. How are you? I am very good, thank you. So yeah, coming out of this film, I felt I was very moved by it and made me feel a lot. So did Past Lives, but I had one question that I was like, I need to ask Celine about this.

29:21So during the film, it's mentioned that there is this height surgery.

29:26Chris Hewitt:Yes. And when I was watching the film, I was like, oh, this is cool. I like this. It's fun. And I was like, oh, but it's not real. I then went on to a Google rabbit hole. It's real. And then a YouTube rabbit hole. And I was like, this is a real thing. This was a GQ article. Oh, okay. I think there was one in New York Times, too. So I knew that this was a thing, but I feel like it was a few years back. Yeah. I think it's been growing since. So it's like a common thing, like among... It's getting more and more common. I feel like, yeah, a lot of guys who are short are probably getting it. I was like, that's...

29:59I didn't realise this was a thing. It was just very like, oh my goodness. Okay, so yeah, I was obviously... Past Lives was like a massive success. Yeah. And then Oscars and all that. And then you're given the opportunity to do your next project. And I was like, this feels... In terms of thematically, I felt there's a lot of crossover, but also tonally, I think it feels quite different. At what point was the gem of the idea of this? Was it post-Past Lives, or was this something you were thinking about way before Past Lives even got made? Well, Past Lives got made, and then I finished working in post-production.

30:37And then from there, I actually had a few months in there before it came out in a world premiere at Sundance in Utah. And at that time, I knew that I was a filmmaker because I had just made past lives. But I had to wait and be in secret about that fact for a few months where it was driving me a little bit crazy. Because I knew I was a filmmaker, but nobody else in the world knew. So I was like, okay, I'm going to use this energy to write my next movie. And then I thought, well, what is the story that I've always wanted to tell? Because it felt like I could make another movie. 824 and my producers were talking about, like, let's make another movie.

31:16And I was like, well, 10 years ago or so, like in my 20s, I worked as a matchmaker for six months. And I feel like leaving that job because I learned so much about people in that job. I learned so much about what's actually in people's hearts on that job. I always knew that I was going to make something about it. And I had been trying intermittently for about 10 years until I just finished Past Lives. I knew I had already made a movie. It hasn't come out. And I was like, okay, I'm going to actually try to crack this story. So I finished that script and then I was going to get to make it with A24 and my producers.

31:57And then I went to Sundance for the world premiere. So the whole time that I was releasing Past Lives and getting to have that amazing run, and of course I even got to go to the Oscars, I knew the whole time that this was going to be my next movie. Also the seed was there. It was like before even Past Lives had become the massive success that it was, you were like, materialist is the next one. But this is script. This was my next movie. And I was thinking about it and working on it for all of that time. that I got to go to the Oscars, which was amazing, in 2024, and then in March, and then the day after that, I flew back to New York City, and the day after that, I was in a scout van for Materialists.

32:39Oh, my goodness. So, yeah, quick turnaround then. Of course. I mean, it's a quick turnaround, but also I'm putting together the movie the whole time I'm sharing Materialists. That's so cool. I didn't know that. Yeah, I mean, the whole time, the reason why my actors were meeting me and I got to sort of meet them and to fall in love with them as characters and then to send them the script is because of past lives, because they had seen past lives. So they were willing to meet me. When, like, approaching something like this, do you have people in your head while you're kind of, like, figuring it out and writing the script?

33:09So, for example, like, Chris's character and Pedro's character, were you already, like, were they kind of, like, in your mind for the roles? No, I mean... Or did it come later, like, where you're, like, actually chatting to actors and you're like, you've got the chemistry or, like, what I'm looking for for this character? Well, I think that, you know, I don't write anything with actors in mind. I usually just create the characters as they are on the page. And then I go out in search of the soulmate of that character in a way that a matchmaker might. So it's actually very close to what a matchmaker has to do.

33:38So your job has done, your previous job has done you a favour here, yeah? So I go out there and I'm kind of like, and I got to meet these actors because of past lives. I was in LA and I got to sort of like have lunch or have drinks. And it would always be kind of a casual thing that I wasn't really, they weren't necessarily meeting me for this project. But sometime in the middle of the conversation, I think that I would just realize that they were the right person. So like you're meeting Pedro and then there's like a point where you're just like, you're Harry. You're Harry, yeah. That's really cool.

34:10And then of course, then I go and that's how love works, right? You kind of go and you tell Dakota, like, I think you're the soulmate of this character. I want you to read the script and tell me if you feel that way about Lucy. And then, of course, like all love, she goes, oh, yeah, I feel this way about Lucy. She's my soulmate. That's such a wonderful approach to like casting. That's like such like an organic way to like get a cast together. Of course. I was going to ask you about the character of Lucy because I feel like especially like we're sort of culturally told that like looking at like material things is almost something to be like looked down upon.

34:42Like a lot of films kind of tell us that it's like you should be looking after looking for materialistic things. Yeah. I liked how Lucy as a character wants materialistic things and is also still very empathetic and still very lovable as a character. And I was wondering, how do you approach that balance with a lead character? Well, I think it's because she's going through something that lets all of her materialism sort of fall apart. It's about the film. You're getting to see the way that she is completely in control or seems to be completely in control in the beginning of the film. Because of the journey that she goes through, she's a hero of the journey.

35:17So I think that by the end of it, we see the way that the things that she believed about her life, about love, dating, all those things are not going to hold at the end of the film. My joke is always that Lucy in the beginning of the film would look at Lucy at the end of the film and say, what an idiot. And then, of course, Lucy at the end of the film would look at Lucy in the beginning of the film and say, you poor sucker, you poor idiot. So I think that what's important more than anything is to really follow the story of this character and everything that she goes through that changes her. That's the sort of basics of drama.

35:52You get to see a hero's journey. You see the way that everything that she believes in the first 15 minutes of the film is, of course, going to all come apart over the course of the film. And you get to see all of those things break down. and for her to be reborn as someone who believes different things and who actually is going to make decisions that are very heroic. And I don't think that she would have had the courage to make those decisions at the beginning of the film. Yeah, I think especially as well, a through line that I saw with this and past live was like a big part of both of them, even with materialists, as much as looking forward at relationships, there's a big part of it that's looking back at a previous relationship between Chris and Dakota.

36:37And I was like, what is it? And I've been thinking about this ever since. What is it about that we look back on relationships almost with like rose-tinted glasses and it's like the fights don't seem as harsh through those glasses. And I was like, what do you think that is about us looking back on our past relationships that way? Well, I think it's quite different for the character Nora and Hyesung in Past Lives because they never actually got to actualize their relationship. They were never in a relationship. They just had crushes on each other as children. I mean, barely. And they held hands once in a car.

37:12So for them, they're not quite exes. Yeah, it's a weird space. Yeah, they're friends. They're friends who may have been romantic, but it just never happened. So in comparison, John and Lucy in Materialist, they're fully exes. They fully had a relationship. I do think that history, the time that we spend with somebody, good or bad, is always going to be something that leaves a mark. So I think that it's more about how much I respect time. Yeah. And also the respect the ins and outs of a day or kind of like the more mundane side of our lives where it's like, yeah, I think going to the grocery store together can be tremendously romantic if you're doing it with the love of your life.

37:57Yeah, I like that aspect of it where it's like you're almost looking back on something so simple. Oh, yeah. Or even like the argument outside of the car. There's an argument outside of the car. And I was like, you're looking back on this almost through like a lens of like, it's hard to watch, but it's almost like, oh, you were a couple. Like you did what couples did. You were real.

38:16Chris Hewitt:Of course. Yeah, I also was like, just thinking throughout it, I was like, this feels almost like a step up from past lives in terms of like budget. and in terms of like, I guess, I guess like a bigger acting ensemble as well. And I was like, is that the direction you see yourself going in as a director? Would you like to return to something smaller like past lives? Or I just I just noticed that in terms of like the jump from past lives to this. It's the same heart and soul. Yeah. But a slightly bigger budget, I guess. Well, to me, it's always about just the heart and soul of it for me. Right.

38:48Because it's like I wouldn't I'm interested in making a movie at whatever budget or whatever situation or anything as long as it's something that I know that I'm going to have creative authority on right so to me I'm like I think that um uh the truth is that like that is ultimately the the thing that matters the most to me that I get to make the movie I want to make yeah because here's the thing to make a movie it is uh at a minimum three years of your life yeah and I don't really take vacation I don't really take the weekends off for me it's a 24 7 365 days event so for me to feel that dedicated and that burning for something I need it to be really personal to me and I need it to be something that I believe in deeply as the thing that only I can make and so I'm like I'm willing to do all kinds of things just for the creative authority on that project but I think that when it comes to the budget of it or whatever the actual material reality of making a movie I think that more material things, if it can stay, if it can mean more freedom, more creative freedom, absolutely I welcome it.

40:04But if it means that having bosses, that's not me, then I think that I'm a lot less interested. You know what I mean? I also wanted to ask about modern dating. I feel like this is one of the first films that I was like, this captures the whole feel of, I live in London, I know what the bonding dating scene's like. And I was like, it feels like it really captures that. And I was like, is that something you really wanted to like put under the magnifying glass in this? Because I know it's obviously framed through a matchmaker, but there were so many parts of it where it's like people going on multiple dates and trying to find a person that fits in this box.

40:41And it's like, we're kind of - Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, I'm really interested in talking about it openly. Dating is a game that we're all playing in pursuit of love. So dating is interesting to me in that way when I'm talking about love and especially romantic love specifically in this movie. I would say that dating is of great interest because it's a game that we're all asked to play. And I'm very concerned about the way that dating as a system has been becoming something that is making actually love very difficult. Because I feel like so much of the movie is called Materialist. And this movie is about the way that we commodify and objectify each other.

41:20And of course, it's going to result in also commodifying and objectifying ourselves too. And the truth is that any commodification or objectification of human beings is going to result in dehumanization. So I think that I'm interested in dating as a thing that we're being asked to do supposedly in pursuit of love, right? We're asked to swipe supposedly in pursuit of love. But why is it that the language around it is still so algorithmic and there's so much math and there's a minimums, right? The maximums. This is what I need. This is what I want. And so much of it is about value, too. And I think about this in terms of like the most important line in the whole film is I'm not merchandise.

42:02I'm a person. And a merchandise cannot love another merchandise, but a person can love another person. And the thing about merchandise is that when we treat ourselves as merchandise, then of course, we get starting to think about each other and ourselves as value objects. So you want to be desired by somebody who's valuable so that you can feel value. Yeah. Right? And you're like, well, you guys are talking like you're actually objects, you're merchandise. But in fact, it's just true that we're all people. And people do not have to have high value to earn love. People just deserve love because we exist, right?

42:39And I think that that to me is always the fundamental, some of the bedrock of this film. This movie is very much about the way that love is something that is the only cure we know, actually, to human loneliness, which is a problem that we all deal with, right? And the thing is like, you know, you can try to buy a little boo-boos and go on social media and, you know, like buy a Cartier, buy a Cartier ring or like, you know, drive a Ferrari as a ways to maybe try to solve the problem of loneliness. But at the end of the day, the only thing that has actually proven to be the only cure, the ancient cure to loneliness is two people looking at each other and then understanding each other and then saying, I completely accept you and I love you, right?

43:27And the truth is that if that is something that It seems to me that I'm very concerned with how no one seems to question the price of a Birkenberg. Like if someone says this is what Birkenberg costs, no one seems to question its value. But I hear over and over again, people ask me, is love really worth it? People question love all the time. They're like, what is it worth? Is it valuable? Should I even want it? Is it even worth wanting? Is it worth the risk? And I'm like, why is it that when it comes to the one salvation we have to the fundamental problem of being human, which is loneliness, when it comes to that one thing, everybody seems to question that, right?

44:08And I think it's because of the way that capitalism has tried to colonize our hearts. And we see it happen to us, right? It's become so all-encompassing that it's trying to eat everything. But I know that love will triumph, right? Love will always be there. just because you're rich and in control and educated and powerful. It doesn't mean that love is going to find you better. I think that's a lovely sentiment to end the interview. That's really sweet. Love is free. Love is freedom. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you so much. That was absolutely wonderful.

44:41Chris Hewitt:Okay. That was Harry talking to Celine Song. We'll be talking about materialists later on in the show. Right now, let's get into movie news. What has been happening, folks? And where has it been happening? What would you like to talk about? Should we talk about Marty Supreme, which got its first trailer this week? Very excited for this. Yes. What is Marty Supreme? Marty Supreme. So an interesting sort of separation happened between the Safdie brothers. Safdie brothers, of course, did Uncut Gems. They did Good Time. They've been making kind of indie low-budget films for a really long time, but have grown in stature and have grown this kind of massive A-list fan base of people just dying to work with them, amongst Adam Saller and Robert Pattinson.

45:26But they parted ways, reasons for which have been largely undiscussed. But they are now doing sort of solo projects, and this is their sort of first big endeavours on their own. Bernie Safdie is making Smashing Machine with Dwayne Johnson, the aggressive biopic.

45:45Chris Hewitt:And being the bad guy in Happy Gilmore 2. And amongst so many other things. Amongst being like a Jedi in Obi-Wan and a hot dad in Are You There God, It's Me Margaret. That man's acting career is fascinating. I digress. He's doing that in That Corner, which is out in October. In December, this film is out. This is from Josh Safdie. This stars Timmy Chalamet. Timmy Chalamets. Yes, Timmy Chalamets as Marty Mezeu, a ping pong star who's destined for possible greatness. also stars Gwyneth Paltrow as a older movie star who he kind of holds a candle to. And it's about his endeavors and his strife for greatness as this master ping-ponger, but cracking cast in this.

46:33Cracking, cracking cast. Eclectic. Eclectic also. Yes, we've got, I mean, put this on your rant, Marshall. We've got Fran Derscher, Tyler the Creator, Gwyneth Paltrow, someone I hadn't heard of but is like very much a spotlight in this Odessa Azayan I haven't seen her in much but seems to be on the up-y-up

46:55Chris Hewitt:the up-y-up the up-y-up but also I'm fascinated about this I read an interview with the cinematographer the name escapes me and I'm sorry but apparently there's something like 140 characters in this film whoa yes and there's promising things like you've never seen anything like this before I don't know how you get 140 characters in a film about ping pong. But based on this, it feels, it's so interesting to see the parallels between the two brothers because they are both clearly vying for prestige, like these big, buzzy casts. You know, there's Oscar talk about both of these already. And it's just interesting to see what both are bringing to the table.

47:33Both look quite similar in terms of, like, aesthetic, but this seems to be a little bit more playful. Timothee Chalamet going for the light, fun, cocky ping pong player rather than like Dwayne Johnson going for his big awards performance I feel like with Smashing Machine but yeah this trailer looked like a lot of fun yeah

47:52Chris Hewitt:Abel Ferrara in it as well oh bloody hell why not in an acting role yeah I really like this trailer I am fully fully in have you guys like seen some of the ping pong clips that circulate around Olympic time when you see these just incredible players going at it it's really spectacular and you get a little glimpse of it in that trailer I hope that we get a considerable amount of watching these guys do their thing because when they're on form it's really exciting to watch and we all know how Timmy likes to prepare vigorously for his roles Timmy two bats he'll have one bat in one hand and one bat in another hand so yeah just on that level I'm excited but the trailer was great this is great news for Ping Pong especially after the restaurant chain of the same name had to close a couple of weeks ago did you see that?

48:40Chris Hewitt:very sad news oh man yeah I used to use that one on South Bank quite a lot oh love ping pong it's gone R.I.P yeah but this is this is this is good news for ping pong so there we go what did they serve at this ping pong restaurant I don't think I know it was dim sum yeah do you like dim sum and then some hey I'll leave I don't think I've ever tried you've never tried dim sum no okay alright well we'll have a Nightmare on Elm Street Marathon. And we'll get some dim sum. Love this for me. Get your coat. I'm on. You've pulled. All right. There was more Timmy Toomeats news. Did you see this news that broke this week?

49:24Chris Hewitt:That he's re-teaming with James Mangold on a film called Highside, which is a heist movie set in the world of motocross.

49:38Chris Hewitt:So, what is it setting? Motocross Motocross Motocross Hello Motocross Motocross I don't know No one's ever said it like that before So Timmy Toomeats Might play someone called Billy Who's a traumatized Former MotoGP racer Who's a strange brother That might be Timmy Toomeats If you don't know Helps him Recruits him to help With the series Fodacious Bank Robberies And there's an FBI agent On their tail So that's exciting Now I know that Chalamet is currently shooting Dune Part 3, which is obviously exciting. James is on holiday right now, but I'm surprised he hasn't crashed through that wall just to go, Dune!

50:21Chris Hewitt:And this looks like it might happen after that. And that means that the Dawn of the Jedi movie is still in the distance. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what will it take to make a Star Wars film work at this stage? Who knows? Who's to say? Who's the same? That's exciting news. Yeah. There we go. Everyone's happy. Everyone is happy. Anything else you want to talk about? There's been a couple bits of Marvel news. Oh. So Sony released the little clip, a little snapshot, day one of Spider-Man Brand New Day with Tom Holland in Spider-Man suits filming in Glasgow. And a number of civilians came out to watch, which was really fun.

51:07Before they released this video, there's a lot of stuff flying around on socials there's one video which I saw they're shooting a stunt and one Glasgow person goes it's fucking Spider-Man and it was brilliant

51:22Chris Hewitt:I'm sorry where are they from? I knew you were going to do this you always do this no please please do it again it's not a Glasgow person it's Glaswegian Glaswegian that's what you call them what did I say? He's a Glasgow person. They are a person from Glasgow. I want to get the name right. Technically, I'm not incorrect. In fairness, they might not have been from Glasgow. They might have traveled all the way to see Tom Holland. So maybe they were from wherever Amon's voice was from. Wow. Just trying to deliver a simple piece of news and absolutely ripped to shreds. I'm not ripping anyone to shreds.

51:57Chris Hewitt:I'm just curious to know. Please give me a backstory for this person. Where were they from? I'm hoping we get to learn the backstory if this person makes it into the film, which I generally hope they do after that one out because it gave me a lot of joy. But yes, excited about this film. Less excited that so many MCU elements are going to be a part of it. Punisher has been announced. Hulk has been announced. Scorpion. Oh yes, that's right. I don't think we talked about that on a previous episode. Ruffalo is going to be in this as Hulk. Yeah, like part of the reason I loved the ending of No Way Home is because there's no tech.

52:36There's no Iron Man. It's just Peter being a lone Spider-Man. And I wanted a story that was focused on that. So the fact that we're getting all these outside elements makes me a little hesitant. But we shall see.

52:52Chris Hewitt:We shall see. Of course, part of the Sony-Marvel deal is that any of these Spider-Man movies, the ones that cross over to the MCU, usually come with a big heavy hitter. And I was wondering who the big MCU heavy hitter was going to be. and it does seem like it's going to be Ruffalo. So that's interesting. John Bernthal is in it as Punisher, as you have said. There's going to be a lot of other things going on besides as well. I'm excited about it. As things stand, it is the next Marvel movie. It is the only Marvel movie we're going to get between now and Avengers Doomsday next December. It's got a lot of work cut out for it, but I guess they were filming in Glasgow and they knew they were going to be out in the streets and they decided to, with Glasgow people, going, oh look, that someone has come to our fair city.

53:39Chris Hewitt:He dresses as a spider. What is that? Is it red and blue? Little ensemble? That's very nice, isn't it? Should we welcome him in any traditional Glasgow? No, don't do that. Oh, my God, they've headbutted him. They've headbutted Tom Holland. Oh, no. Anyway.

53:58Chris Hewitt:I think they knew that they were going to have loads of pap shots and lots of people on their phones, so they decided to embrace that by releasing something official. So that's good. All right. That's exciting. Anything else? The other bit of Marvel news is Ryan Reynolds has teased that Deadpool will be in Avengers Doomsday by graffitiing over an Avengers symbol. Yes. I saw this. Yeah. I saw this. I don't imagine he'll be in it for much but given what I predict will be a fairly heavy film because of the doom of it all. It would be nice to have a burst of Deadpool to liven things up. How is he going to work?

54:39I have no idea. Call the Vissos. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I'll try. You probably could. They're not picking up.

54:52Chris Hewitt:Marvel Jesus will be in Avengers Doomsday. Turns out the number they gave me was just a pizza shop. God damn it. All right. yeah I'm intrigued there are rumours going around that there's going to be more casting announced soon for Dune State so I imagine that was Reynolds getting out ahead of that or maybe responding to that as the news editor of Empire the last announcement which happened the day before we went to print and the announcement took something like what eight hours this is my loved that it's my life Beth for me Feige has this studio bugged and he goes when have they stopped recording yes sir excellent release the news when's it printed like oh 12 hours right well we're going to take up half of that that's exactly announcing the biggest casting news of the year yeah thanks Kev well Feige we're on to you you've made a powerful enemy of us on this day but anyway we're excited about your new films yes please keep fighting the good fight yes anything else I want to do some news just for me do you want to should we leave the room just well maybe maybe other people in this room I'm very excited that K-pop Demon Hunters is getting a limited but actual theatrical release really yeah hey like sing-along screenings across the nation what and others and thank goodness like Netflix really missed a trick putting this straight onto the platform it's really good fun the animation is out of this world the bangers be banging and bring it to the big screen, for goodness sake.

56:33So it's getting, I actually don't know when it is coming to cinemas, but it is getting a limited theatrical release. And I really do think people need to go see this film. It's so much fun. So much fun.

56:45Chris Hewitt:I haven't seen it yet, so I'm excited about that. That's good. Maybe I'll pop my K-pop cherry on the big screen. It's going to be golden. The list of films that Netflix should have released in the cinema keeps getting longer and longer and longer. I'm happy that I have started. Happy Gilmore 2 being one of them. They honestly would have cleaned up. That is another thing I need to watch. I started K-pop Demon Hunters. I haven't finished it yet, weirdly. I started watching it a couple of weeks ago. And you know why? Because you watched it at home. Yeah, exactly. 23rd and 24th of August. Yeah, you will not be able to leave.

57:22Chris Hewitt:Well, you can leave during the big screen experience. The cinema doors will be locked as soon as you enter. I'm looking forward to finishing it. Maybe I will wait to finish it on the big screen. Because I was having a lot of fun. All right. That's exciting. That's exciting stuff. Are you excited about this? James Gunn has announced that he is writing his next Super Family. I believe that's what he's called it. Super Family movie. So it sounds like, and he's going to direct it as well. But it sounds like it's not going to be a Superman sequel outright. and Superman's going to be in it and I'm guessing will be the main character but it's going to be about other characters as well so what do you think I like this I said a similar thing about Batman I think on this podcast in terms of what they should be doing going forward give us more of the Bat family that's something that has not been mined nearly enough on the big screen it's a similar thing for Superman and his family.

58:25So I'm glad that that is where James Gunn is shifting his focus to.

58:28Chris Hewitt:Who do you think will be in that movie? Probably Connor Kent, who has had many different interpretations. I think the one which I'm thinking of, he's half a clone of Lex Luthor and half a clone of Clark Kent. So they could do that. And then obviously Supergirl would have been out by that point. So that means Superman, Supergirl, Connor Kent, Superboy. so hang on is Conor Kent Superboy yeah is that not a lot to explain if you're going so Lex Luthor's clone Superman imagine if they did the same that they did with Superman and it just started with Superboy there no explanation no original story just like yeah Superboy a few days ago Superboy was discovered I don't because they've already set up the clone Superman idea with the Hamlet Baravia in the first Superman.

59:22Chris Hewitt:Oh, so hang on. Because I used to read, when I was a kid, I read Superboy comics. But I thought he was like... I thought he was like Clark. I thought he was Kal-El but plucked from a different timeline. No. He's a clone. Is that canonically what it is? He's a clone. In the versions of him that I am thinking of, he's a clone. Right. Okay. Because I'm thinking of Smallville. Beth, just Will to Live check up. How are we doing? I checked out during the Halloween. It's just been like birds tweeting in my head. I mean I do wonder just on I wonder if we meet whoever it's going to be about in Peacemaker because isn't that like a multi-dimensional thing it is a multi-dimensional type thing so I wonder if they set up a little hint or something oh that's exciting last but not least Noah Centineo which I believe is how you pronounce it is going to star in the Rambo origin movie from the director of Sisu Yamari Helander and he's going to star as young Sly Stallone.

1:00:31Chris Hewitt:How do we feel about this? Shrug. Shrug? Shrug and sigh. Yeah, sure. I mean, I guess of the kind of younger crowd of rising stars, there's only a certain number of them that could fit that mold. And I guess he is tall, dark and muscly and great. He is. On a looks level, it works, but my excitement for the Lambeau franchise has long dissipated. and it's going to take a lot to get me pumped up for this one. Get the kids from Son of Rambo in. Who was in that again? Was that Will Poulter? It was Will Poulter and Bill Milner. Yeah, get them back. That'd be amazing. I'm excited. Yeah, Mari Helander's involvement makes me think that this might actually be all right because that man knows his way around an action sequence.

1:01:20Chris Hewitt:My concern with this is, I think we discussed this in the pod before, is that the Rambo origin movie is First Blood. I don't understand I mean yes you could do Rambo in Vietnam but I don't know do we really need to see it I don't know exactly yeah well on that happy note on that happy note that is it for the news section shall we have our final guests of the week they are a married couple they weren't married when we started interviewing them but they got on so well no they were married beforehand it is Alison Brie and Dave Franco, of course, who starred in movies before. Did Dave Franco direct that film, The Rental?

1:02:02Yeah, I think so. He wasn't in it.

1:02:04Chris Hewitt:No. No, he wasn't in it, but he directed it. And Alison Brie was in it. It's a good movie. With, I think, if I'm right in thinking, a young Jeremy Allen White. Oh, wow. Yeah, Dan Stevens, Alison Brie. Good cast. Creepy little fucking movie. We'll add it to the long list. Why are you trying to traumatize me? I don't know. I don't know. to quote to quote Fight Club I wanted to destroy something beautiful oh you think I'm beautiful no comment we'll let the internet decide once I get hold of the footage but anyway what was I talking about what was I talking about you're talking about together you're talking about together good God thank you so in so in Up Lupita Nyong 'o plays Gladys please please Gladys

1:03:00so silly

1:03:04Chris Hewitt:alright anyway so Alison Brie and Dave Franco they have worked together on horror movies before now they are starring in together as a couple who how do I describe this because I haven't seen it so I'm really going off what I've read on the internet fuse together on a genetic molecular level and they're not entirely sure why and they try and figure it out. Codependent body horror. That's it. Codependent body horror. Thank you indeed, Bethany. And it's, you know, again, I haven't seen it, but my understanding is it is deeply fucked up and well worth your time. And we sent along Mike Munser, a man who, of course, knows his way around the evolution of horror.

1:03:44Chris Hewitt:We sent him to talk to Alison and Dave together and a merry time was had by all, but they did not fuse together. on a molecular level, no matter how much Mike tried. Enjoy. Dave Franco and Alison Brie, hello. Welcome. First of all, just tell us a little bit about what kind of intrigued you guys about this script. What led you to want to do this project and together as a pair as well? Yeah, I mean, we are generally drawn to things that are at least attempting to do something different that we've never seen before. And the horror set pieces in this script were just so innovative and ambitious as hell where we were like, I don't even know how we would pull this off, but that's exciting.

1:04:26Yeah. And the way that it all tied back to the themes of the movie, this movie is an exploration of fears of monogamy, codependency. So we just loved that all of the horror set pieces were tied into the exploration of those themes and they build on each other really beautifully through the course of the film. So did you immediately kind of think we should do this together? Yes. I mean, Dave read it first and basically sent it to me and was like, we have to do this together. We just figured our real relationship could lend itself to the relationship in the movie where these characters have been together for over a decade.

1:05:00And hopefully when you're watching us on screen, you can kind of feel that history there. Our relationship is not at all like the relationship in the movie. Right. We should clarify that. But still, the meta quality is there. If anything, it's like these characters are kind of at odds most of the film. Yeah. But we wanted to make sure that there was like this underlying love between them. because when you've been with someone that long, no matter how difficult the relationship is, there is still a basis of love there. And so that was something that we really wanted to infuse in there. Yeah, obviously you are playing characters, but was that weird kind of, you know, those kind of moments of tension between those characters?

1:05:34It was weirdly not weird. I know, I know. You know, like annoying answers like where - I know. No, it could be, I suppose it could be quite therapeutic as well, right? You would think that like, oh, maybe if we're like harnessing these deep like feelings and we're like letting it out on screen, but we're just acting. No, I think it was more like Dave said, because our relationship is so different from that of the characters in the movie, we weren't taking any of that stuff home or using it therapeutically for ourselves. It was more like the fact that we are together in real life gave us that trust so that we could take these big swings in the movie and we do some really weird stuff and kind of like gave each other permission to take these big risks.

1:06:18or take some anger, threw the characters out on each other. But it wasn't personal. No, if anything, we just felt lucky that we were, at the end of each day, we're like, oh, thank God we have never gone through what these characters are going through. Yeah, absolutely. They do go through a lot. What was it like on set, particularly some of those moments of kind of body horror and filming those bits? It was interesting. Yeah. It was wild. It was, I mean, there were certain days where we would come to set early in the morning and from the very first take, our energy had to be at 100 and it had to stay there the entire day.

1:06:54And pretty much every day, I was definitely getting injured. You know, I think about the shower scene where I'm fully nude, my character is unconscious and I'm flinging my face against porcelain walls and that really hurts. But we were just so excited about the footage that we were getting and just felt like, kind of going back to what we were saying earlier, just felt like something different that people will hopefully look at and be like, oh my God, I've never seen this on screen before. And so our excitement just kind of superseded any pain that we were feeling. Is there one day on set particularly that stands out to you guys as being a particularly kind of challenging one?

1:07:31Definitely. Most days. We were shooting the reciprocating saw scene and we were attached for upwards of 10 hours. So we were sitting together for three hours just to get a prosthetic attached to our arms. We couldn't be further than an inch away from each other. I mean, not even an inch. We didn't want to damage the prosthetic. In addition to that, Dave was taped to a chair. I'm sitting on his lap all day. It was just sort of a trying day. Yeah. And it's like, you know, when someone's sitting on your lap for 10 hours, regardless of how petite they are, it hurts. It also really, it takes a toll.

1:08:08And so what was nice about us kind of being in a real relationship is that we could kind of surpass. Forgo the niceties. Politeness. And just be like, honey, you got to get up. I love you, but adjust your weight somehow, please. It's true. So we both just sort of had to take turns being uncomfortable that day. But you're right. We didn't have to spend those moments in between being like, how's your wife? Yes. What about those moments of your body's kind of contorting and flipping? and like how was that done on set? Well, I should give credit. I had a great contortionist double for a couple of the major backbends that took place.

1:08:46But then there was some wire work on us where there would be like one... Attached to a wire around our waist or chest or Dave's ankles. Either it was providing resistance so that, you know, we could fight against it or we were just fully getting yanked down the gravel driveway. Wow. So a lot of stuff was done practically by the sounds of it on set. Yeah. Yes, yes. Almost everything was done practically and then had an element of visual effects over it. At least had a basis of practicality. A couple big set pieces that were VFX only. Are you guys good? Are you squeamish with kind of body horror and gore and that kind of thing?

1:09:20We love it. We love it. I will. I'll watch some stuff through my fingers, but I'm enjoying. That's the fun of it. I like that. Yeah, absolutely. Are you guys horror fans generally there? Oh, yes. Because Dave, you've directed The Rental as well, right? So has that always been there for you, that love thought? Definitely. Yeah. As a viewer, there's nothing I love more than a good horror movie. And I think when I directed that film and I was my first one, people were surprised that I was going into that genre because I think a lot of people know me from the comedies I've been in. But it's just it's so great because in horror, the stakes are so high.

1:09:55You know, this is life and death and crazy weird shit is almost expected within the genre. And so as a filmmaker, you can take big swings stylistically and you can really put your own stamp on one of these movies. Did you guys, was there ever thought that you would like to direct this movie? Or was that kind of... No, no, no. Because it really came to us as this package deal from our writer-director, Michael Shanks. I mean, and then we came to him, we answered back with another package deal. Yeah, yeah. We'll be in it together and we'll be producers on it. That was our reciprocal package. But Michael Shanks, our writer-director, he has an extensive VFX background where he actually did 150 of the VFX shots in this movie himself while he was editing the rest of the movie.

1:10:38So that was part of the sell because, as you can imagine, this was an incredibly ambitious shoot. The script had all of these beautiful set pieces in them. And then we knew that we only had 21 days to shoot the film, which would be impossible without someone with that VFX background and with our budget. We just couldn't have afforded to pay someone to do all those shots. Is it a risk kind of commercially doing something that is as kind of extreme as this in terms of the body? Definitely. Yeah. I mean, there was only there was one moment on set when without giving too much away, we're both naked and pressed together.

1:11:16Without giving too much away. We're naked. Yeah. I promise I'm not naked in every scene in this movie. He is naked in 80 % of the movie. Yeah, yeah. But we're both naked, pressed together, doing some weird shit. And during that day, we were like, if this doesn't work, this is a career ender. Yeah. But I think what drew us to the project was the risk. I feel like as actors, we seek out risk. And that's how you know that it's an exciting project. If it scares you a little, if you're risking something, you know, it's exciting. Because when it works, it's what makes it feel special and unique. Do you think, because obviously last year there was stuff like The Substance, too.

1:11:50Do you think horror, is horror having a bit of a moment right now? Is this something that people are really embracing? I think it's been a handful of years now where it's been like the one consistent genre that are drawing big crowds. And I mean, with The Substance, that's been paving the way specifically for body horror, where it was nominated for multiple Oscars, including Best Picture. And it's kind of making people just acknowledge and accept that this is a real genre that people need to take seriously. Treat the filmmakers with respect. Yeah. I've always thought that with horror and comedy, right?

1:12:24They're both genres that get kind of looked down upon. Sure. And you guys juggle both in this movie. Do you think there is a parallel? Is there a connection between making comedy and horror, do you think? I mean, I do think both comedy and horror, they deal with very high stakes in sort of different ways, right? Right. Sometimes comedy fodder for comedy is taking something that's like sort of inconsequential and then imposing high character stakes on it. Horror is like you're truly dealing with life or death stakes and how are your characters going to get out of that. So either way, it's sort of like a heightened experience.

1:13:02And I think with, you know, with comedy, it's like whether you're kind of setting up a joke where it's like, OK, this that leads to this and then it pays off here. It reminds me of horror when you're setting up a scare where, you know, I don't know. It's kind of about the timing, isn't it? It kind of is, yeah. Yeah, and I guess you get that reaction. Have you kind of watched it with audiences? Because there is that kind of similar reaction. Well, that's what I was going to say. The other thing they have in common is it's like they're the two best genres to watch in a movie theater with an audience.

1:13:30It's a communal experience. You want to laugh together. You want to experience jump scares together. I think it heightens the whole thing. And this is a very obvious statement, but like comedy works the best and jokes work the best when they're unexpected, when they catch you off guard. Same with scares. You know, I think horror audiences are so savvy these days where they can kind of anticipate certain scares that are coming. And if you can surprise them, that's that's it's so rare these days. There are some truly frightening moments in this movie. Right. And amongst all the body horror, some of those dream sequences and other nightmarish image images.

1:14:04Did you kind of feel that on set that, oh, my God, this is really going to work on people? Yeah. And I mean, truly, a lot of that was Michael Shanks. Oh, yeah. He has such, he loves horror. Yes. And has such an eye for it that I feel like there were even some moments that, like, I don't know, that on the page I would go, I don't know how he's going to make this work. And then when we were there shooting it, I was like, wow. Yeah. Final questions for you guys. What are your favorite horror movies? Oh, yeah. In terms of the classics. The Shining. Rosemary's Baby. Alien, 28 Days Later, The Thing, the newer films we love, It Follows, Hereditary, the Danish version of Speak No Evil.

1:14:48The Ugly Stepsister. Oh yeah. That is gross. From this year. That is so gross. Talk about a movie that I watched about, I kept watching it like that, but also cackling, laughing. Yes, for sure. What a beautiful satire. Raw we love. Yeah. yeah that's a great one fantastic amazing we're off time

1:15:07Chris Hewitt:thank you guys thank you so much for your time thank you man okay that was Alison Brie and Dave Franco talking about together and we will talk about together or more accurately Amon will because he's the only one of us three who has seen together at time of recording anyway later on in the review section for it is now the review section of the show there's only one place to start it is of course the meeting of Reed Richards Johnny Storm and Madam Web together at last. Interesting that you're up with Johnny Storm and I'm cutting the murk in there. Well, I just figured the whole FF thing, Reed Richards shoot, there's a scene in this movie where Reed Richards and Johnny Storm meet and they don't talk about all the cosmic rays in Galactus.

1:15:48Chris Hewitt:It's very strange. Anyway, I got past it. It was fine. I got past it in the end. My God. But anyway, while we're talking about materialists, let's turn to our very own Madam Web. Beth. Hello. Hello What do you want to know? Everything about the movie What it's about You know Did you like it? Should people go see it? That sort of thing You know A review A review I've done a few of those That's funny That's funny And I'm here Me? Failed review? That's impossible What? Gladys?

1:16:24Celine Song Made past

1:16:28Chris Hewitt:I fucking nearly this bit take I genuinely nearly this bit take

1:16:35Chris Hewitt:that's good shit Celine Song we like Celine Song very much Celine Song made her directorial debut two years ago now with Past Tense Past Lives

1:16:53which was Empire's film of the year that year was it? yes

1:16:57Chris Hewitt:wow because that was one of our Mount Rushmore questions that I rejected which was Mount Rushmore of Empire's Films of the Year and I said one of them was Past Lives and you just I wasn't he was listening yeah I wasn't listening you got me okay put the cuffs on me Past Lives which we loved very much a real moment a real arrival for Celine Siong as a filmmaker loved that film so very much this is her follow up a little bit of connective tissue I would say and that Past Lives was very much about a woman sort of wrestling between her past and present. Had a whole other sort of strand of identity running through it.

1:17:37Lots and lots of other themes there. This is a little bit different. It's about a matchmaker called Lucy, who is Dakota Johnson. She is at a wedding for one of her clients where she meets Pedro Pascal's Harry. Very moneyed, very handsome. What they refer to as a unicorn in her industry. like a very suave Pedro Pascal wonderful man

1:18:04Chris Hewitt:I watched this with my wife last night he appeared on screen she touched my arm yeah your first mistake she's at this wedding she meets him and then while she's talking to him she also bumps into John who is her ex-boyfriend played by Chris Evans who's kind of the antithesis he's this like struggling actor late 30s living with housemates and this house sharing in New York like really struggling and we learn as the film goes on that they kind of fell apart because she's really driven by wealth and status and it's this really really interesting exploration of her work as a matchmaker we get to enter this very robust very well observed partly because Celine Song used to be a matchmaker When she moved to New York, her first job was matchmaking to make Rent while she was writing her plays.

1:19:04Fun Easter egg, actually, when they go to see one of Chris Evans' plays, one of John's plays, there is a poster for one of Celine Song's plays.

1:19:10Chris Hewitt:Oh, I thought you were going to say the dialogue they were delivering was from that play. Good Lord, no, that would be a bit egotistical. There's a poster for one of her plays. I did notice the poster, but I didn't know what it was for. Yeah, it's really fun. And all of that detail and observation kind of bleeds into this world. It is really fascinating to see, you know, the kind of tick boxes that these people have for matching. So, yeah, there is a love triangle involved in the story. And as you mentioned in the trailer, it is marketed as that. You know, this woman who has to choose between one and the other, her kind of future aspirational life.

1:19:51and this, you know, schlubby, lovely, kind of grounded guy. You know, where will her loyalties lie? But it's so much more than that. And I don't want to give anything away, but there are some sort of mid-act revelations and plot developments that are really interesting and surprising and handled very well. For me, the screenplay is just what sells this for me. I really enjoyed watching the cast and the chemistry is great. Of the three, I found Chris Evans a little bit less believable as a down and out guy because he's just so handsome and clean. You just can't make that man dirty. I don't know how else to put it.

1:20:36Helen has tried. I mean, aside from literally putting soot on him, I don't really understand how you can make him look.

1:20:45Chris Hewitt:There's a bit where Lucy unexpectedly turns up at his apartment and he's trying to get ready and hurry. And he starts and he's like, oh, my hair is terrible. And he's just like, dude, you look like motherfucking Chris Evans. You know what I mean? It's just, yeah, of the three. And that's not to take away from his performance. I think it's lovely to see him doing something like this. I agree totally. I think that he is someone who, you know, his choices have usually been solid. And over the last couple of years, post-MCU, you know even though he's fun in stuff like The Grey Man and you know fine in Red One those choices weren't as smart as I think I thought The Grey Man on paper just looks like a really really smart choice but you know I don't know how well it did on Netflix but I think Lights Out is still his best post-MCU performance yeah but you know he's someone who had begun to walk off the path a little bit and now he's working with Celine Song he's going to be in the next Ethan Coen movie and he seems to be finally rediscovering that sort of working with kind of idiosyncratic indie directors again and that's great yeah and I think that lends to this wonderfully you really do believe his love for Lucy you know that's what it kind of boils down to and then on the other end Pedro Fescal is just so smooth and effortlessly charming and enigmatic and effusive and you can totally see how she gets kind of drawn to him and attracted to him.

1:22:19And then Dakota Johnson's great. She really, she can go from being, you know, click, click, click. Yes, I can get you this man who's six foot seven and earns this, this and this. And it gets, you know, it gets candid. They talk about race. They talk about politics. They talk about, you know, all these, these are deemed to be the kind of unrealistic standards that these people have. And it's her job to manage those expectations and try to meet those expectations, even though some of them are really impossible. But, you know, she can kind of pivot very quickly between that and vulnerability, you know, when the mask slips a little bit.

1:22:52And it's certainly something we see in the second half of the film. You see that kind of professionalism slip away and her really wrestling with a moral quandary. And, you know, the deeper it gets, the more we kind of see Dakota Johnson leaning into that role and really being very emotionally intelligent and very, very compelling.

1:23:17Chris Hewitt:It's interesting because it's a film that doesn't have a villain necessarily. And I would say at times, Lucy's a little bit down on herself. She tries to villainize herself at times. And the movie is, I think, very interesting in trying to wrestle with the moral intricacies of what she does, especially with a fairly late-breaking development that I will not spoil in the film. but there's a lot more here than the poster and the trailer which made it look like a frothy Nancy Meyers style rom-com and everyone was going this is what Celine Song is doing after Past Lives and then you see the film there's complexity here yes absolutely I can see you know marketing just trying to make this film very accessible but I agree Miss Sold and I just love Celine Song I cannot wait to see where she goes from here it's great that she's managed to move into to something more accessible.

1:24:11Not that I'm saying Past Lives wasn't, but Past Lives was very specific. She's shown a lot of her other experiences for that film. So to make this as a follow-up, I think she did an incredible job and I'm looking forward to seeing everything else that she does. Yeah. I'm a big Past Lives fan. I was really looking forward to this. I'm in the like-not-love camp. I liked it for a lot of the reasons you already said. I think the thing which I was most... hung up on was you mentioned the love triangle of it all. And obviously there's much more going on, but I didn't feel the um and the ah in terms of which person am I going to choose?

1:24:53It never really felt very much in doubt to me. Yeah. I was a bit surprised by that. The other thing. I kind of disagree. Interesting.

1:25:03Chris Hewitt:I, there was a point yesterday I saw for the first time last night where I was like this could end in a number of ways and I'm not entirely sure how it's going to end with 15 minutes to go with 10 minutes to go I was like this could go this could go in a number of different ways that's interesting I haven't heard that tape before yeah well you're hearing it now motherfucker I was also surprised about the lack of humor in the film like I think in any relationship but especially in the romantic relationship humor and being on the same wavelength in that regard is a huge thing and there's not much of that that I felt watching this film.

1:25:39But I like the performances. I think Chris Evans is really charming. He does side face really well in this film in particular. So yeah, I'll still recommend it, but it will be a softer recommend for me.

1:25:51Chris Hewitt:Amon gives it a soft recommend. Beth, medium recommend, a hard recommend? Hard recommend. Me too. I think this is in my top 10 of the year so far. I will say caveat, I've only seen 8 films. No, I thought it was terrific. I thought I was on a par of past lives. And I know that not many people feel that way. But God damn it, that's where I feel. That's how you feel. That's how I feel. I'll tell you who gives it a hush recommend is John Nugent, who is quoted twice on the materialist posters. Wow. If you see a train station at tube stop, John Nugent Empire is quoted twice. And it's not a big poster.

1:26:29It's one of those like slight, it's not like a massive quad. It's like quite a small one. And John Nugent's name is on it twice. Wow. the reviews so nice they quoted him twice there we go

1:26:38Chris Hewitt:fantastic alright four stars then for materialists next up Amon Chris what do you want to do Nobody 2 or Together let's do Together but Solo because we haven't seen we haven't seen Together but I have seen Nobody 2 so we could do that Together or we could do Together Solo Together Solo and then we'll finish off with Together Nobody 2 okay are you okay yes will to live check Beth okay I'm ready that straight sweeper now take it away together Tim and Millie that is where our focus is they are played by Dave Franco and Alison Brie oh they were on this week's show they were that's great look at that wow they are a couple that have just moved to the countryside while they are on a hike they fall into to a very creepy cave.

1:27:35There's not a cave of wonder. There's a very creepy cave. They decide to take shelter in it overnight to ride out the storm. Tim also decides to drink some nasty-ass water, which is very, very ill-advised. And then once they do all of that, mysterious, supernatural things start happening to them. They find themselves drawn to one another in more ways than one, leading to a lot of very sticky situations. figuratively and quite literally at multiple times in this film. All right, good stuff. So this is a really, really confident debut feature from Australian filmmaker Michael Shanks. G'day, mate.

1:28:18Are you in Glasgow? Glasgow.

1:28:20Chris Hewitt:Bloody well, Spider-Man's in there. He's flying around, mate. He's bloody well doing a swing. This is not the Michael Shanks who starred as Hawkman in Smallville, by the way. honestly you took the words right out of my mouth that is where my mind initially went to when i saw this name they are two completely different people all right um a lot of good work is done in the first act of this film to set up the relationship dynamic between tim and millie there's love there but there's also quite a bit of doubt um tim in particular has a lot of commitment issues the film actually opens on a public proposal scene that is very very cringeworthy like i wanted to crawl out of my skin it was it's very very cringeworthy okay but it's very smart because they showcase how scary their relationship is now scary love is before any of the supernatural horror stuff begins to seep in when it does seep in it's very creepy it's very gross it's very very well done michael shanks has a background in visual effects and you can tell that he does watching him put together this film.

1:29:32The blend of practical and CGI is really, really impressive. The sound design as well, a lot of bone cracking and snapping. It's just very, very effective. The performances are really, really great. Alison B and Dave Franco are married in real life and they bring that sort of real life energy, intimacy into these characters. It's a very physical performance. They are throwing themselves around everywhere into these very uncomfortable positions. But it's very, very impressive. Final thing I'll say, this has there are four months left in this year. This has the best needle drop of the year by quite some distance.

1:30:11I know what the needle drop is and I haven't even seen this film. It is the best needle drop of the year. It is phenomenal. Spectacular. I will say no more about it. I don't want to spoil people but it is fantastic.

1:30:23Chris Hewitt:And the film is pretty good too. alright was it scary did you get scared yes did you pray at any point during this one I didn't pray I was sat next to a fellow scaredy cat Helen O 'Hara and Helen's tough she's from she's from the streets although admittedly there are very well to do streets in Northern Ireland but still she's one of those Irish people that we're saying yeah from Glasgow and yes I think I was more freaked out than she was to be fair there's one scared that happens in the first 10 minutes, I was so unprepared for. I thought that I was out, and I was trying to time it so that my fingers were over my face at a certain point.

1:31:03Finger watcher. Oh, yeah. If I get too kicked out, absolutely. Oh, my gosh. I think it's in the ears as well. I should have done that for Blink at Back. Have you seen that? No. Oh, my gosh.

1:31:13Chris Hewitt:The sound design in that film. You know what my trick is? I don't know. Because I love horror, but I'm still a bit of a fraidy cat when I watch a horror film for the first time. So what I do is I unfocus my eyes. really? how does one even do night so you can still see the screen this is excellent podcast content sorry the video is on me right now even now I'm going to put this clip out and people are going to be like oh my god Chris Hewitt is a hunk as I unfocused my eye and then pointed something faking in the distance and so Freddy Krueger he's on screen he's on screen but he's blurred so I don't know and then oh scary things happened then I refocused my eyes yeah and the good news is that it's only damaged my eyesight by 75 % over the years so you were just vague shapes to me right now we are actually Helen and James you've just defocus your eyes that's good yeah that's a good way also keep repeating it's not real just to me I genuinely I close my eyes and think about my cat If it's something really, really gnarly, I'm just like, just think about my little cat rolling around.

1:32:28But then when I go home and see the cat, I'm thinking about all the awful stuff that happened in the film. How is this good? Oh, living a best life, man. Living a best life. There's one scare in the first 10 minutes. I thought I was out of the woods. And so I lowered my fingers. I was not out of the woods. I got the full impact of it. And there was a vocal reaction and people were laughing at me. And screw those people because I was freaked out. but yes it is scary and quite gross it's not quite like you know final 30 minutes of the substance gross a film which I will never watch ever again but there is some gross stuff in there

1:33:04Chris Hewitt:alright good stuff

1:33:08Chris Hewitt:alright so we gave this one four stars four stars as well four stars then for together and I know what we gave the next one because Amon you've seen this I think you're the only other person besides me who has seen this film and in the world I think other people in the world have seen it it is Nobody 2 which is of course a sequel to let me just look it up Nobody wow that's just incredible I just got my phone told me honestly the way I've been going in this show it could have been any number of films I could have said anything Nobody 2 it's a sequel to Five Children in It I don't know Nobody 2 is a sequel to Nobody 2 is a sequel to Nobody.

1:33:52Chris Hewitt:Starring Bob Odenkirk. Yes. Better call Saul. As Hutch. The return of Hutch. Hutch Mansell. Hutch Mansell. And yeah, he has been going full on with his assassin work. And he's just like, you know what? I need a break. And so he decides to take a break and reconnect with his family in Plumberville. which is a place where when he grew up his father took him there and he had a really, really great time to recreate those memories with his family. All looks to be going well. And then an incident at an arcade escalates quite understandably because some fool decides to put hands on his daughter. That's a massive, massive no-no.

1:34:37And despite promising his wife that he'd keep his dark side at bay, he gets mad. he ruffs a few people up and unfortunately for him that escalates and escalates to the point where every corrupt bad guy it seems in the town is mobilized to hunt him down it goes all the way to a crime boss called Lendina played by Sharon Stone who is annoyed that this Hutch Matzor dude is all up in their business who is this nobody? yeah she says yes and yeah she decides to come to town to Exact Revenge. So I enjoyed Nobody in 2021. Really enjoyed Bob Odenkirk as an action hero. I thought he was awesome. There's that bus sequence which was very highly praised and rightfully so.

1:35:28Timo Garganto directs this one and he brings a lot of style to the action. Each action sequence has its own flavor to it which I really really enjoyed. There's a thing that he does multiple times where he'll let the sounds of the battle just have the audience sit with that for a few seconds and then the camera will catch up to the madness. I thought that was really, really smart. There's one point where he goes from outside and just hearing the sounds to inside and where all the carnage is happening in a really, really cool, smooth transition. The best thing about this is the action. It ends with the final battle at a carnival fun fair, which is really, really fun.

1:36:11And it feels like Home Alone, but in the Nobody universe. Really enjoyed that. I think on the script level, this film is less good. It's quite shallow with the themes that it's playing with. Like there's a father-son, be better than your father theme. That doesn't really go anywhere. It just fizzles out. There's another thing with Hutch and his wife, Becca, played once again by Connie Nilsson. Good to see her have a little bit more to do in this film, especially in the final act. But there's a thing with the two of them, you know, like, you know, Becca is understandably, you've broken your promises to me, you haven't kept your rages, she's in check, she's mad, and then she isn't, all of a sudden.

1:36:52And I found that to be quite weird. Also, the Sharon Stone of it all, they try to go very big with the performance, and it's not not entertaining, but it does feel like a collection of ticks that's just thrown together, that doesn't really gel into something that properly coheres. So I had an okay time. It's less good than the first one. I wouldn't mind seeing another one, but if they're going to do that, they need to find more ways to switch it up and have better thematic storytelling because I think that is the biggest weak point.

1:37:27Chris Hewitt:Yeah, hard to disagree with that. Sadly, I enjoyed it. It's fine as it goes. I loved The First Nobody, directed by Julian Neishuller. It was one of my favorite action movies of that year. it's a film that you can go back to and re-watch endlessly it's just great fun like a more comedic John Wick of course by the same writer Derek Kolstad whose influence I think is less in evidence on this movie the script is attributed to him and someone else Aaron Babin yeah I don't know I get the feeling that maybe Derek Kolstad didn't stay the course on this movie and you can tell everything about it is fine but I think the story is a little slight.

1:38:12Chris Hewitt:Some of the character motivations don't work for me. It's one of those, hey, the gang's all here sequels that didn't need to have the gang all here. So it's trying to find things for Christopher Lloyd to do. It's trying to find things for RZA to do as well. And it just doesn't quite work out. But, you know, Bob Odenkirk's always fun to watch. The action sequences are fine. very, very good. I don't think this is Timo Ciccanto in full-blown berserker mode. If you've watched his Indonesian action movies you know this man really knows his way around an action sequence. And it's good solid stuff here but yeah sadly for me not as good as the first movie but still plenty to talk about.

1:38:57Chris Hewitt:I have recorded this spoiler special chat with Timo Ciccanto and we will be doing a spoiler special for this movie. Hopefully it'll be up next week if we can find the time to record something. I've been away unexpectedly over the last week or so, and so we're a little bit behind in supported specials. So please do bear with us, and we will be getting up to speed as soon as we can on that front. But three stars you gave this one. Three stars for Nobody 2. I would go with that. Yeah, I think that's fair. Three stars in for Nobody 2. And I hope if it's a third that Dean can take all the things that work in this movie and realign and recalibrate and move forward.

1:39:36Chris Hewitt:alright I think on that note that is it for this week's Empire Podcast join us next week we will be joined by oh this is good returning to the podcast Joaquin Phoenix star of no star of Amri Aster's Eddington and destiny has brought him to this podcast and that's not all two more returning champions Chiwetel Ejiofor makes his second appearance on the podcast this year. Was he aware of that fact? No. But it is undeniable nonetheless. And I think he's the record-breaking guest on the show. I think he's been on more times than anyone else. Tom Hiddleston will be back talking to those two guys together.

1:40:26Chris Hewitt:They are the stars of Mike Flanagan's The Life of Chuck. What a time. What a time it is. But anyway, until then, until we meet again, and until that suspicious occasion, it's time for me to say goodbye to my two colleagues of such lethal cunning. Over the course of this podcast, they proved that they were more than just another bald man and another woman. That they were, in many ways, the show's beating heart. Oh my God. Beating veins. Being held as a puppet. Being puppeteered.

1:40:59You're really not selling me all much in this film, guys,

1:41:01Chris Hewitt:I have to say. That's not even the worst. Well, actually, it's the worst bit. That's like the worst death. It really stays with you. It's horrible. It's absolutely horrible. But there's another bit where Freddy turns into a giant snake and tries to eat someone and there's another bit where he turns into a TV and his arms come out the side of the TV and he goes, it's prime time, bitch! And smashes someone through the... I'm not. These are things that happen in Nightmare on Elm Street 3, Dream Warriors, co-written by Chuck Russell and Frank Darabont, directed by Chuck Russell, 1986. Wow. Oh my God, please release me.

1:41:32Sorry, 1987. Please release me from it.

1:41:34Chris Hewitt:I got that wrong. oh my god oh my god anyway it's goodbye to Amon Warman peace we're gonna get some dim sum we're gonna freddy you up oh boy one two Chris is coming for you it's goodbye from Beth Webb bye bye goodbye goodbye goodbye alright and it's goodbye from me as well I would like to round off this podcast on a personal and slightly more serious note if you will allow me Simon Glenn was many things. He was a talented drummer. He was a fan of Manchester United, but, you know, nobody's perfect. And he was a wonderful human being. He was the partner of my eldest niece, Gabrielle, and a loving father to her son, Tommy.

1:42:19Chris Hewitt:Simon died suddenly last week at the age of 36. And as you can imagine, the last few days have been exceptionally tough for everybody. My thoughts are with Gabby and Tommy and Simon's family and friends. and I would like to dedicate this episode to him. Rest well, Simon. Rest well.