Lee Cronin's Bluey (ft. guest, Brian Cox)

26:33I don't know if he's going to make it to the end of the film, guys, but fingers crossed for him. And we have sort of confirmation that Kate Winslet is going to be some relation of Schmeagel. We think, just because her name ends in Gol. Marigol. Marigol. So maybe flashback to Schmeagel and his mum kind of a thing or Schmeagel and his sister or Schmeagel and his other woman in his life. I don't know. But yeah, we don't really know anything other than her name. We do know that Lee Pace, the aforementioned, is going to be returning as the king of the wood elves. Thranduil. Thranduil. I believe in my recollection of what happened when they were hunting for gold.

27:13I think they did get some help from the wood elves and I think, I'm surprised that we're not hearing anything about Legolas, if I'm honest, because he and Aragorn already knew each other going into the Council of Elrond, right? And I thought he helped. But anyway, good stuff. Nipped out to the shops. He probably did. Just at the wrong time. Look, this film, does it need to exist? maybe not but let's hope it's good if it's gonna you know things of power is proof that sometimes if you expand the Law Living's franchise you can get some good stuff that's true what else leapt out at you guys from CinemaCon anything you particularly want to get into Godzilla Godzilla minus zero which is surely just Godzilla right if you're minusing zero is that not just yeah just straight up Godzilla Godzilla Godzilla Godzilla Godzilla yeah very excited by this Takashi Yamazaki is back the writer, director and VFX lead from Godzilla Minus One and we've got a little teaser trailer that's the main thing, the teaser trailer which gives us a little bit more info about what the sequel is going to be.

28:19It's out later this year it's out in like November so it's really not very far away and we know it's set two years after Minus One Godzilla has been bulking up he pops out of the ocean in this trailer and he is a beefy, beefy boy and not just in the thigh departments as he was in Minus One. Those were some... He was not skipping leg day. No, absolutely not. In the previous film and now he's not skipping shoulder day either. And the main intriguing thing is that we have a brilliantly realized shot of Godzilla walking next to the Statue of Liberty and it is brilliantly framed. So this tells us that Godzilla is going to be in New York and initially it looks like Godzilla is smaller than the Statue of Liberty because of the angle of it and then it very quickly becomes clear that he is huge, way, way, way bigger.

29:14So it's not that he was small, it's just he was far away. He was far away. Perspective, like they used on Lord of the Rings to make the Hobbits look tiny. So yeah, only a few details for now, but details to be very excited about. They are holding back on the possibility of additional monsters, but I very much imagine that we may be getting some King Ghidorah in this mix, which would be very exciting. And this is shot for IMAX, right? Shot for IMAX, yeah. It sounds like they're going bigger in many ways than they did on Minus One, which was a very big film for Japan as a production. But obviously after that success and Oscar wins, they are going bigger in many ways.

29:56it sounds like a fair amount of the story involves America and still Japan as well, but a slightly more international focus. Shot for IMAX, and they have sort of nebulously spoken about how, you know, obviously a lot of the chat on Minus One was how incredible it was that they made that film for roughly$15 million. From what I heard when I spoke to the director, I think it was actually quite a bit less than that even. His sort of answer was along the lines of, I wish I had$15 million. this one I think they have a lot more than 15 million dollars and so hopefully we get to see some big crashy-bashy from love a bit big crashy-bashy sorry that's a different tune I also enjoyed the trailer for Fokker-in-law which I was not previously hyped about if I'm honest but actually I think where they're going with it is kind of intriguing so the idea is that Ariana Ariana Grande's sort of fiancé to the hapless Skylar Gissando.

30:59Because if you need hapless, I feel like he's the guy you call. And she is potentially manipulative, potentially evil, at least in Ben Stiller's eyes, and trying to consciously uncouple his son from his overbearing parenting. And I think that's quite a fun premise for this. And I think it's fun as well. Obviously, the dynamic in the originals is that Ben Stiller feels woefully inadequate next to Robert De Niro. And so then the extra complication of Ariana Grande here is that actually she gets on really well with Robert De Niro, which only serves to make Ben Stiller look worse. And so to continue that dynamic of Ben Stiller's character, the fucker, being the sort of butt of all the jokes and being the one who is made to look just the worst.

31:47They've kept that intact without him having to become the De Niro character in that dynamic. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I think so. It's like an interesting twist on it. I think it's a fun time, yeah. I haven't seen the trailer, but you have successfully sold me on it. So congratulations. That was our point, yes. The other sort of, it wasn't a trailer, it was more of an announcement, was for Spaceballs, the new one. Now, those of us who are fans of the original Spaceballs know that the sequel was due to be called The Search for More Money. And what we learn in this little announcement from Mel Brooks is that he found the money.

32:20Apparently it was in his basement. So he doesn't need to search for it anymore. So they're just calling it Spaceballs, the new one. I don't know if that's better or worse, if I'm honest, but I'm still very hyped that we're going to get it and see what's happening. I have to say, I'm Spaceballs agnostic. I've never seen the original. And I don't know, it's possibly not my favorite style of comedy. I don't know. That kind of silly spoof? Yeah, sometimes I like that, sometimes I don't. It sounds like they have a lot of material for this one, again, reports out of CinemaCon. Obviously, they have an entire sequel trilogy's worth of Star Wars to riff on, and Avatar, and various other massive sci-fi franchises that have happened in the meantime.

33:01So hopefully, you know, Mel Brooks and a lot of material to work with means fans should be happy. I think so. I think there's material there that nobody has really spoofed yet, you know, particularly. So as long as they don't go, I don't know, back to the same sort of bullet time well that everybody made fun of for about five years there, I think we should be onto a good thing. Anything else that you want to talk about? One trailer that we have all just seen is the new trailer for Street Fighter, which was really fun. Honestly, between Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, it just feels like my childhood is on screen this summer it's so fun but yeah a lot of fun if you play the games you'll recognize a lot of the characters and a lot of the special moves Andrew Koji I think he's playing Vayu which means that there's going to be a lot of really cool fight choreography just because he's there which I'm excited about so yeah fun ridiculous 50 Cent is in the cast for some reason I don't know Noah Centino in a blonde hairdo got a couple of wrestlers in there Cody Rhodes as Greal and Roman Reigns who's playing but yeah could be fun it's probably going to be very ridiculous but should be fun seems like they're leaning into the video gaminess and embracing the character designs and the outlandish world that it's set in Amon basically exploded at the Hadouken at the end that's the what?

34:29that's the fireball? that's the big fireball it's a special move and it makes you realise how many things from Street Fighter have kind of permeated in the culture. Even the perfect sort of sound effect that has found a life way beyond that game pops up in the trailer a couple of times as well. Where is it found a life? In a lot of music. A lot of hip-hop music use that as like a sort of percussive ad-lib. Okay. Perfect. I am aware of Street Fighter. I have seen Street Fights. Yeah, I've seen Street Fights. Are you more familiar with Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter? No, I'm more familiar, I think, with Street Fighter, but I'm not familiar with either.

35:11I don't have any horse in this fight or race. There actually might be a horse in one of these fights. Yeah, I mean, it seems possible. I know enough to appreciate that they have kept the looks very close to the looks in the 8-bit games and everything else. I do think I will struggle to care. so I'm excited to see if they can give me any reason to care about any of these people maybe the Andrew Koji character based on what we saw in the trailer but I didn't care about anyone else in what we've seen so far so that's going to be exciting for me I guess we also had some cool casting news Adria Arjuna was at CinemaCon to promote the Thomas Crown affair which I'm very excited for but more pertinently for this discussion she has been cast in Man of Tomorrow which is shooting next week as Maxima, who is an alien who comes to Earth looking to find a suitable mate, and she has her eyes fixed on Superman.

36:12So that is the kind that she is playing. Do we think this is a double bluff and she's been cast as Wonder Woman? I don't know, but if that is the case, then that would make me more hyped for her, honestly. I would like her more as that character, purely because I think that means that she is in the DCU for longer and I think she'll be a great Wonder Woman. But I guess we'll see. She's ludicrously talented and insanely charismatic, obviously between Andor and Hitman and Blink twice. She was great in Blink twice as well. She is dynamite on screen, so that is a very exciting piece of casting. Yeah.

36:52I mean, look, this is not to say she won't be good as Maxima if that is what they're doing. And I'm sure they'll find something fun to do with that. But I don't know. I just got a bit suspicious. They've announced, I think that this was already rumored, but it was on the slate announcement that Game of Thrones' Aegon's Conquest is on Warner Brothers' to-do list. So that's happening. There's going to be a new Long Legs as well. Yeah. What do we think about this? I'm intrigued by this. So another Long Legs film, Nicolas Cage is going to be back. Osgood Perkins is going to be back as writer-director.

37:25I'm not sure about this personally Long Legs I think is a film that has maybe slightly cooled in people's estimation since it came out obviously Osgood Perkins has been very prolific over the last few years he went straight from Long Legs to The Monkey to Keeper he has another one that I think is already shot that is out before the end of the year and Long Legs obviously I think became a little bit of a victim of its own hype because of the sheer level of it's the scariest movie ever made and actually that film is doing some interesting strange tonal things but it's not going for scariest movie ever made so i'm intrigued of what a second long legs film is especially if it's centering around nicholas cage doing that crazy nicholas cage thing he does yeah um i don't quite know where people are at temperature wise on Osgood Perkins yet.

38:19I don't know if they can recapture that hype or if people are ready for more long legs, if that's something people want, but it's happening. Hopefully he has an interesting idea. Yeah. That scariest movie ever made tagline that gets attached to a lot of horror films lately. I'm just trying to think of the last time that was actually said and I fully agreed with it after I watched the film because it happened with Barbarian and that film was over. But to me, I mean, I personally thought that that was overhyped and it wasn't that scary to me. I know me saying that is insane, but that is how I felt.

38:58Also, is that Craig another director who is always going for more interesting things than just the scariest? Absolutely. And I actually think Aunt Gladys owes a little bit to Long Legs. I feel like just the extremeness of that look. People have also said scariest movie ever with Lee Cronin's The Mummy, and we'll get into it, but I'm not sure if it's... Well, I think somebody at the intro to the movie said that. I'm not sure. Many people were saying that before. Is that influencers though? Is that one of the reasons they invite influencers? Because they say things like scariest movie ever? Those tags of like, it's the scariest movie ever, comes primarily from social media.

39:31And it's embraced by the studios as part of the campaign. Because why wouldn't they? It's going to drive people out to cinemas. But that's part of the ecosystem that is currently driving all of this. but I think it's biting a lot of films as they release and Longlegs I think was a bit of a victim of that Can I talk about my favourite headline out of CinemaCon really quickly The Beekeeper 2 will follow the Beekeeper Society trying to overthrow the US government Jason Statham also now uses bees to heal his wounds Can we just wrap it up and give it the best picture Oscar right now This is amazing Bees heal wounds?

40:14Well, I mean, honey technically is antiseptic or anti-something. Does it just mean he uses Burt's Bees products, skincare? I mean, they're very nice skincare, you know. Other skincare is available. Jason Statham aging well, do you know what I mean? It's all the bees. I don't know if I'm 100 % sold on that sort of theory. I mean, look, if somebody wants to overthrow the U.S. government with bees, I'm intrigued to see that, I suppose. Wait, so are the bees overthrowing the government, but also helping Jason Statham? The Cure Keeper Society is overthrowing the U.S. government. Right. Okay. I look forward to watching this on a plane.

41:03Yeah, I guess. Oh, it's a lot. I don't know. I'm just now having visions of Nicolas Cage again going, not the bees. Look, good luck to him. Good luck to the beekeepers. I'm excited to see it. I'm sure there was more out of CinemaCon and will have been more by the time you listen to this. I feel like the most important one we should briefly mention is Spider-Verse. Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. A couple of images, right? Yeah. Four images. And they're going for an almost like IMAX style aspect ratio on this one. there going like a tall screen yes amon has the actual ratio that i did not bother to look up i'm like it's a tall it's a tall picture um but very cool yeah we've got our first handful of images i think they showed footage in the room at cinema con but they at least um gave us plebs uh a smattering of delicious images that look very very cool and there's a really cool spider punk one in particular that is just like showing how they're going to use that expanded frame in a very interesting way as they do in these films.

42:10Everything in the frame in a Spider-Verse film is something worth looking at. So that's great. Yeah, I'm excited about this. And it sounds like what took the time is that when they decided to make a third film, they had too much for one film but not enough for two films. So they basically had to create the full middle act of this film from nothing. And that's why we've had to wait since 2023. Not that we're bitter. It's fine. We'll just take your time. This is what I've been saying. I've been saying for the last four years, you are on the verge of a 15-star trilogy. Take your time, land the plane.

42:46We will wait. Well, okay, but also, could they not land the plane quick? Can we not have both? But then once the plane's landed, we have the plane forever. So if they land the plane as safely as possible, then we have a better plane for the future. Why do we want a plane unless it's taken off again? Come on, think it through. Because it's full of snacks and movies like The Beekeeper 2. I feel like that's somehow slagging off Spider-Verse beyond the Spider-Verse but okay yeah look I'm thrilled can't wait to see it it's going to be it's going to be amazing and much more news I'm sure to come from CinemaCon but yes well done everyone shall we move on shall we have an interview let's do it yes so this week we are delighted to be joined by Brian Cox who is of course the star of Succession Troy X-Men 2 you name it as well as finding time to be a completely different person who knows a lot about physics, which is pretty impressive.

43:37So this week, he's making his directorial debut in Glenrothen, which is, I mean, he may well have made it in a place called Glenrothen, but also it's a film called Glenrothen, which is a family drama, comedy, whatever, in which he also stars as Sandy, who's the owner of a Scottish distillery who has to reckon with his past regrets when his estranged brother, Donal, who's played by Alan Cumming, comes back to town. And we sent Chris along to speak to Brian Crox because we couldn't go an entire episode without Chris, of course. So, here is Chris talking to Brian Crox. Please enjoy. Brian, this is the Empire Podcast.

44:14Yes. We can talk about whatever you want to talk about. You can swear if you want to swear. Oh, okay. There are no restrictions. Oh, fuck this. Fuck this about a game of fucking soldiers. I'm not fucking doing it any fucking more. And off he pops. We've lost Brian Crox. he's gone yeah it's like giving whiskey to the bravergo to tell me that I can swear because I do swear and I never used to well I swore a bit but I never swear as much as I swear now why is that? Logan fucking Roy that's what it is that's what did it for me oh interesting okay interesting so that's something that they they didn't tailor that for you then you swore as a result of Logan Roy Logan Roy didn't swear as a result of you no not at all I mean he was swearing all the time.

45:04Naturally, I read the script and try to do the lines that are in the script. So I was fucking off on a regular basis. Well, welcome to the Motherfucking Empire podcast, Brian Cox. That's fine. I'm so fucking happy to be here. Very, very happy to have you here, sir. This is your directorial debut, Glenn Rothen. It is. What took you so long? What kept you? Well, nothing kept me because I never wanted to do it. It wasn't my idea. It was Neil Zyger, fuck him, Zyger. I can say that, can't I? That's good. It was his fucking idea. He came to me and he said, you're directing this film. And I said, what?

45:48He said, you're going to be directing this, David Ashton, who we're all friends. We're all way, way back. And he said, you're directing David's film. I said, what do you mean I'm directing David's film? He said, well, you're going to direct it. I said, how? Why? why? what? and he said well you know you're going to direct it that's it you're going to direct it and I said well and it was force majeure so I was forced to direct it so I thought okay well I'm going to direct it and I was also and I thought well I said well it's okay because I would have probably played Sandy even if I hadn't directed it I'd probably end up playing Sandy anyway which is a good part actually so I said okay fine so I'm directing it but it was a tremendous experience because of you know having been part of films for a long time you know I've done over 200 movies and having worked with some of the most awful directors of all time, you know, I mean, real control freaks, you know, and sort of stuck in a kind of way.

46:45I mean, not everybody. I mean, there's some really wonderful directors. You've worked with some characters as well. I've worked with some really great directors, so I can't complain. But the bulk of them sometimes is that they're all sort of concept-ridden, you know, and you go, and I'm not interested in that. I'm only interested in exercising the talent of the people I'm working with and to do it on an egalitarian basis so that everybody contributes what they need to contribute. And I don't stand in their way. I said, you want to design the sets for this? You design the sets and I will stand by you.

47:20And so they did what they wanted to do. So that means everybody's happy. and I was fine because I just think you've got to you've got to marshal the talent and not impede the talent you must marshal it and let it go do ahead go ahead and I don't think there's nearly enough of that done because we don't trust you know we're still so untrustworthy as a species and I find that I have to operate on a different level altogether and with actors I mean the performances in this are fantastic yeah Was it a case of direct unto others as you would have others direct unto you? Absolutely. And also the fact that these are actors who know what they're doing.

48:04Yeah. You know, I mean, you don't have to direct an actress like Shirley Henderson. You just have to give her the space. And she'll blast you out of the room. You know, she's just wonderful. And it's the same with Alan. Alan is a really considerable actor. Yeah. And you just allow him. And that's what I love about this film. it's getting back to what Alan really does best. I mean, he plays these creatures and he's brilliant at traitors and things like that. But that's not the Alan coming I know. The Alan coming I know is this really rather profound actor. And he does some wonderful stuff. And I think he's fabulous in the film.

48:38Yeah, I was watching this. We've had Alan on the show over the years as well. And he's wonderful to talk to. But there's something about, I don't know the way that Hollywood, I think in particular, has kind of pigeonholed him. a little bit. So when I watched Glenn Rothman, I was like, oh my God, there's so many more strings to this man's bow than I think people have allowed him to display. That was my point. You know, originally, when we started 100 years ago thinking about the film, I thought we'd have an American actor because the fact that he'd gone for nearly 40 years and he'd become Americanized and everything.

49:16And I went down that route for a while, but then most of the American actors I talked to didn't understand what I was implying. Why? What do you mean? Why can't I? I said, no, it's all right, fine, forget it. We won't go there. But Alan, of course, and I suddenly thought, it's got to be Alan coming. It has to be Alan. His name was on the part all the time. How far back do you and Alan go? Because obviously you were in X-Men 2 together 24 years ago. I first saw Alan in probably 1984 when he left drama school. I can't remember when he left drama school, but one of the earliest things he did was he did a production of Tartuffe, and he was playing The Sun.

50:00He wasn't even playing one of the major roles, but he was unforgettable. And I just thought, who is this young man with this phenomenal energy and this focus, which was quite startling, and it was Alan. And I've watched Alan over the years become a really, truly wonderful actor. But also, there's this other side of people, which people have naturally employed, because he loves it. I mean, he loves the whole thing. And traitors as a result of that. But, yeah, you get to sing in this as well. I do. So you do, yeah, there's a little bit of singing going on. With Alan, it's always difficult because you can really sing.

50:38You have to stop Alan singing. Well, no, I don't get him singing because, you know, he sings that wonderful version of, you know, we had these too, Tommy and Roddy, who are composers, were just fantastic. And Tommy wrote this version of My Hearts and the Helens, which is you know, it just makes me cry every time I hear it. I get very moved by that. I was just reminded the other day that you and Alan had actually done Carpool Karaoke. We did Carpool Karaoke together. Together. You know, but I shall never forgive him for that. Why is that? Well, because I had to sing a Spice Girls song. and it was fucking embarrassing.

51:21I mean, truly fucking embarrassing. And I said, do we have to sing? No, it's all part of it, Brian. We've got to sing this. I said, you know, what do you want? What do you really? Tell me what you want, what you really want. I just, oh, this is fucking trodous. I did it with a wonderfully bad grace. I'm a Shakespearean actor for the love of Christ. I can't be doing this. That cuts no ice whatsoever. That just brings out the cruel people. The cruel people. They come out and say, oh yeah, you can sing that. That would be great. So I guess you made sure never to get into a car with Alan on the way to set, just in case he sprung something on you.

52:01No, no, no. No, he only does it professionally. He doesn't do it any other way. So when you think about it, we're just saying that you have been directed by some clunkers in your life, but also some crackers. you know Michael Mann is someone that you were directed by absolutely actually ironically it's the 40 at the end of this month is the 40th anniversary of Manhunter my god I know I can't believe it has anyone come out and asked you to well there was a talk to do something I may not be available that's the only problem because I'm about to start this Dexter show which I'm doing you know I'm playing I'm playing a retired serial killer well I'm guessing Hannibal Lecter then Was he your first serial killer?

52:44I think he was. Yes, I didn't do one before that. Yeah, so 40 years on from Manhunter, how do you look back on that experience? I loved it. I still think it's the best film about that character because I don't do any of that Welsh business.

53:05I play it straight down the line. Because I went to school with these guys. I know what these guys are like. You know, I went to the guys, a couple of guys who are now doing life in prison for murder, you know. This is in Dundee. In Dundee. So I knew those kids. I knew them. I knew what that was like. And I knew what that mentality was, that sort of determination that they have. And, of course, you put it into a sort of psychiatrist. It's doubly dangerous, you know. Jesus. So, you know, when you think about the great directors you work with, would Michael Mann be up there? Michael would be up there.

53:37Who else would be on your list? Lindsay Anderson. without question a wonderful director who ran the Royal Exchange in Manchester called Michael Elliott who's a fantastic director and whose daughter is Marianne Elliott who was actually my assistant when I directed Richard III in Regent's Park 25 years ago and she was my assistant again she's taken over her father's talent because tragically he died at the age of 53 he had dwarf kidneys his kidneys, and he was in a very bad way. But the last thing I did with him was Moby Dick, and it was probably one of the most sensational things I've ever done, really.

54:17What separates a great director from a merely good director for you? A great director is a visionary. It's that he gives you things that you never even thought about. And when he tells you them, it makes complete sense. Male or female. And the other great director I worked with is Debra Warner. who creates the most wonderful working atmosphere and lets things grow in the rehearsal. So many directors come with their ideas and what they want to do, you know, and I think that's unorganic. I think you have to work with the people you work with. And this is what I learned about doing Glenn Rothen. Let the people who are there serve their particular talent and don't get in the way.

55:00Let them do it and let them offer what they can offer. And usually it's harmonious. Usually it is a sense of togetherness of all of us working together. And I believe in that. I really believe that's the most important element in any creative activity, especially any group creative activity. So what were you keen to not do as a director? What mistakes were you keen to do? Tell people what to do. Yeah. Never told anybody what to do. I let them do what they did. You know, and I would sort of suggest things, but never ever alter what their initial relationship to that particular text was as an actor or an actress.

55:44You know, when you work with somebody like Shirley Henderson and Alan, when you work with somebody like Shirley Henderson, you just stand back and let her go. And she is phenomenal. She is phenomenal. You know, because she's very pure, Shirley. She's a very pure, rather brilliant actress. And you just allow that to be, you know, and don't stand it. Don't get in the way. That's the thing a director mustn't do. Don't get in the way of the talent. Let the talent thrive, you know. So how did you tackle camera work and working with, and composing shots and things like that? Well, you know, you've got to get a great DP.

56:24And I worked with this Jamie Aykroyd, who is Barry Aykroyd's son. And ironically, I worked with Barry and I did a film with Ralph Fiennes, Coriolanus, which I think is a wonderful film. But Ralph doesn't get his just desserts for that. And I had a great time, you know, working with seeing and observing Barry, how Barry worked. Now, Jamie is a stylist. He's not like his father. He's taken a different route. And he's a brilliant stylist. And I just see, I saw some of his work. And I said, I think this boy will do, and he does. I mean, he makes Scotland look like incredible. You know, he really does make Scotland look beautiful, stunning.

57:09And that's down to Jamie. There's an interesting tension in the film because obviously you're very, very proud to be Scottish. Alan's character has been self-exiled from Scotland for a long, long time. He has a very complicated relationship with Scotland. It's something that he shut out of his mind, but he still loves the country. you know you've moved away as well from Scotland but I know you try and get back there as often as you can what's your relationship like with Scotland? It's a complicated one quite frankly it really is complicated because of the level of poverty that still exists in Scotland and we haven't been able to shift it particularly child poverty you know and I find that really kind of acutely depressing and also the way we are treated as you know I mean and I'm going to be repeating myself, but these people have heard it before, but the telephone, Alexander Graham Bell, a Scott.

58:05Yeah. John Logie Baird, television, a Scott. Anesthesia, Simpson. Yeah. You know, these were what we've contributed, what our and my nation has contributed to the general good. Not to mention golf. Not to mention golf. Somebody mentioned golf the other day. I don't play golf. I'm with Sam Clements. It's a good walk spoiled as far as I'm concerned on golf. You know, I cannot do little balls and holes. I mean, snooker, golf, any of that stuff, I just die. I think, oh, for fuck's sake, let's get out of here now. And you call yourself a Scott Bryan, don't you? No, no, no. No, it's not. Golf is rather, it's not, you know, everybody plays it now, but it was a wee bit of a posh game, you know, You know, everybody in their place, which is one thing I cannot stand.

58:57You know, I mean, I'm a socialist and I don't believe in that. You know, I don't believe in all that. You know, I'm the boss and you're not, you know, all that stuff. What's your sport of choice if you have a sport then? Well, I do like football. Yeah. I really love football. And I've always been a Man United fan because... Well, this interview's over. Thanks, Brian. Thanks for coming in. I've always been a Man United fan. But, of course, they've been through a rather bad time. And they're getting better. They're getting better. But also, I'm aware of other teams. And the team that I really do admire is Arsenal.

59:33And that's my son. My youngest son has become an Arsenal fan. So he took me to the Arsenal games. And I think Saka is probably one of the great players of all time. That number seven is just amazing. What he can do is... And he doesn't do it with any fuss. He just does it. He just plays the game. And I watch him dribble and I think, he's incredible. That guy, he's absolutely incredible. He is phenomenal. I will admit that. I'm a Liverpool fan. There you go. There you go. Well, Liverpool, of course, when the great Scottish people were running Liverpool, it was a great team. Yeah, very much so. Shankly, Dalglish.

1:00:10Shankly, Dalglish. Great people. But you always need a good Scott to run the teams. Busby did it in Manchester. You know, think of Busby. he came to Manchester just after the war and it was a mess. It was a complete mess. The ground was a mess. They'd been bombed, you know, all that. And he built that team up. And of course, I still remember, I still remember the Munich air disaster. I was a boy then and it was one of the saddest days ever. You know, Duncan Edwards, Duncan Edwards, who was just a, I mean, I can remember him. He was this beautiful player and this young man who was, you know, who died as a result of that crash.

1:00:45Yeah, gone far too early. Brian, I'd be glad to go. But just very quickly, the fact that you didn't mention Dundee or Dundee United, does that speak to that complicated relationship with Scotland as well? Are we going back to that? No, it's bipartisan. I cannot go for one team as opposed to the other. That would be wrong of me because they're both two teams that are, you know, they have their moments and they've been great. My cousin Bobby Cox played for Dundee. He was a right back. He also played for Scotland as well. So my brother was a good father. I was useless. I was, when any team was ever picked, I was the one, they always said, well, I suppose we'll have to have cocks.

1:01:27I was the same. I was the same. And you don't ever forget that. You don't. It cripples you for life. The wound runs deep. The wound runs so deep, so deep. I suppose we'll have to have cocks. Absolutely. You know, and I just, I mean, but to watch that game, it is the beautiful game, and I love the game. Absolutely. Well, listen, Brian, on that note, I could talk to you for a lot longer, but I've got to let you go. We haven't sworn in about 15 minutes, I'm going to say, Brian Cox, thanks for fucking coming in. Oh, thank you for fucking having me. Pleasure. All right, that was Brian Cox talking to Chris about Glenn Rothen, which we'll be talking about in a couple of minutes.

1:02:07But let's start with the biggest release, I think, of the week, which is Lee Cronin's The Mummy. Yes. Amon, as a fellow scaredy cat, set it up for us. Yes. So we have Emily Mitchell as a young Katie. She is the daughter of a journalist played by Jack Reiner and a nurse played by Lyon Costa and she is kidnapped. And then eight years later, she is found. But there's something a little off with her. But the doctors say that all she needs is some family time. That's all she needs. It turns out she needs a little bit more than that. This has three core elements to it. It's got body horror, it's got a domestic marital situation, and it's got a mystery to it.

1:02:49And I think it scores on all three. The body horror, there are things that are done to fingernails and toenails in this movie that will stay with me for quite some time. It was fun. We all saw this last night in a pretty packed house. And a toenail scene. Pedicure scene, yeah. A complete whole audience. Oh, all at the same time, which is a joyous. So on the body horror, it scores. Domestic situation, the marital stuff, I think, really, really works. There is some lingering trauma, of course, after the kidnapping that is not always made explicit, but there's always just underneath the surface. I think they act that really well.

1:03:32And then the mystery, which is, I guess, the point person for that is Mae Kalamawi, who plays Detective Dalia Zaki. And it's really, really compelling. I wanted, I was always interested in her determination to try to figure this out, this mystery at the heart of everything. And it's also through her, I mean, there's punishing sound design all the way through, but the sound design that really sticks out to me, at one point she fires her gun. It is the loudest gunshot I have heard. in the cinema in quite some time. I was thinking, how can a gun that small make a sound that big? I think also in that screen, they really cranked up the sound.

1:04:14They really did. To the atmosphere. They really did. So there's only two things that I had couples about. As I say, I don't think this is the scariest movie of the year. I think it's very nasty and gruesome. It's not always very scary, although there are times when I had to look away from the screen. and there's also the editing at times is a little bit off there were sequences that happen and they do a good job of sort of setting up the geography of the house but there's sequences that happen there the characters going through it upstairs and then there's characters who are unawares about what's happening downstairs having a nice little quiet chat yeah I think you have to assume that that house has some serious like it's Adobe I guess and that doesn't really you know a lot of time to travel well but yeah the other option is it's either that or it's supernatural sound muffling.

1:05:03That's the only thing that makes sense for me in those moments. But I still find it to be very compelling. I don't like to use the word enjoy when it comes to horror films, but it's very compelling, very effective. You know, I did find this quite a fun time, though, because I am a fan of Lee Cronin's work. I really liked Evil Dead Rise, but the trailers for this, for Lee Cronin's The Mummy... Yeah, I think that's for copyright reasons, right? Just to distinguish it from the universal. Yeah, it feels like, in a way, it's quite funny, because no, truly, I say this as a fan of him, nobody knows who Lee Cronin is.

1:05:35But at the same time, even just as a signaling of like, this is an authored film. This is not a franchise thing. This is an authored piece of work. And it does feel very Lee Cronin. If you liked Evil Dead Rise, I think you will like this film. I agree. Why do I think there'll still be people showing up to the cinemas wondering, why isn't Brendan Fraser in this? What's going on? They are in for sure. Give us a little bit of time. Because this is very gnarly. but the filmmaking in it, I think, is generally really good. This man loves a split diopter shot more than anything in the world. And he maybe very slightly overdoes them in this one because every other shot, every shot involving Katie, she's doing something freaky in the foreground and you have a split diopter and you have somebody else looking freaked out in the background.

1:06:18But you can really feel the intention he's put into a lot of this. I found it a slightly strange mix of, on the one hand, it does feel very familiar because you can look at all of the horror beats and go, that's The Exorcist, that's The Omen, that's Evil Dead. At the same time, to have those influences tied up in the guise of a Mummy film feels new. So it kind of feels new but kind of familiar at the same time. There wasn't much here that I felt like I'd never seen, but I've never seen it done as this kind of horror, this supernatural Mummy monster movie. Yeah, I thought he had a real commitment to the family, which I liked and I thought that was really interesting and I think it's particularly interesting in the very last minutes of the film that I'm obviously not going to get into and I thought that was quite effective because I think it's a it leavens the awful stuff that's going on elsewhere I mean this family are being put through it and the commitment to having a family who at their heart love each other and care for each other you know is just enough to kind of get you through this endurance test so so i like that i think it's very evil dead and i think if anything i would have liked to have a bit more mummy-ishness about it and obviously you know curses aren't real so it's hard to know what that would be but like you i feel like there's something else we could have maybe done because this feels very much more based in changeling myths in irish mythology or like possession myths in european mythology and not specifically in egypt and i think some of the portrayal of Egypt may rub some people up the wrong way uh and I would kind of understand that I think I think May Kalamawi is brilliant in this I really really liked her character and what she gets to do because I thought that was really effective I think some of the other Egyptian stuff may may may cause some people to be troubled let us say I need to check with you guys because I haven't spoken to you about this yet I was sat on the same row as both of you.

1:08:17Yeah. Quite a bit further down the row from you two. The opening sequence to this is very spooky. There are spooky shenanigans happening. And there was a big jump scare early on. And I'm pretty sure I saw a Helen shape leap out of a chair. Truly, to a physical extent that I very rarely see in the cinema. It brought me so much joy. I think, did you like absolutely jump out of your skin? I don't know if I left my skin, but I definitely, yeah, I was scared. I was properly scared. I have reservations about some aspects of this film. I think we gave it three stars I would agree with that I don't think it's a five star masterpiece or anything I think Evil Dead Rise is better than this but I was proper scared that particular moment got me good and yeah some of that I mean and that was through like if I wasn't being jump scared and there's some like big like sound jump scares there's a lot of gore scares there's a lot of slow burn tension to me it's a very very scary film he is throwing everything at the wall but sometimes I would have liked maybe it to be like a little bit more focused and a little bit more narrowed down to what really works it is a long film too for horror it's over two hours and I think again you could have tightened that up a little bit without losing you know some sense of a slow burn so we gave it three stars which is a recommendation but certainly not for anyone with a weak stomach don't maybe eat immediately before you go in or immediately afterwards, if I'm honest.

1:09:46And yeah, if you have young children, it may be more traumatic for you than for other people. So do bear that in mind as well. But three stars for Lee Cronin's The Mummy. Also out in cinemas this week is Rebuilding, which is a Josh O 'Connor starring kind of cowboy story, right? That is correct. He plays Dusty. And after wildfires destroy his ranch, he winds up in a FEMA camp and he finds community with others and he also reconnects with his daughter and ex-wife. I was going to say right off the bat, there's something that just feels right about Josh O 'Connor in a cowboy hat framed with this picturesque background.

1:10:32I mean, there's many, many shots of this, but it just, it feels right, would you agree? I mean, weirdly, yes, but he's like, even though he's very English and very much not a cowboy in real life, he plays it really well, he does. This is a very tender, gentle, heartwarming story that I really, really liked. It's slow-paced, but it was very deeply felt to me. I never felt bored, I was never really looking at my watch. There are times when you're watching a slow-paced film and that's kind of the energy it's giving. This is not giving that energy at all. And yeah, Joshua Conner, very versatile. I think his most recent performance that I like the best is still in Wake Up Dead Man.

1:11:09Sure. But this is right behind it for me. I think he's great. Really liked Amy Madigan as his mother-in-law, Bess. And I like that this is really at the heart about community and about resilience. Those two things really come from community especially. With people sharing what little they have with others. Yeah. and that's a film that we could use a lot more of in these times. Absolutely. Great performance as well from Lily Latore, as his daughter, Callie Rose, who's a fantastic little actress, and Megan Fahey, very good, as his ex-wife as well. This is written and directed by Max Walker Silverman.

1:11:48And inspired by his own story. Yeah, and wow, I didn't know that actually, but that's, yeah, really, really lovely, warm, as you say, film. Very gentle to the point where, you know, barely there, I think. It's very, very slight, but it's a nice time. And especially, like, you could double bill this with The Mummy. Like, come out with The Mummy and then go into this and have your faith in humanity restored. It's a good pattern, isn't it? You know, it's that kind of like, oh, okay, maybe sometimes things will be all right. So we don't have an official Empire review yet at the time of recording. I think, for me, this would probably be a high three.

1:12:25Amon, what do you think? High three, low four. High three, okay. So somewhere in there. So again, recommendation, good film, but just be prepared for the kind of movie, I guess, that it is. Shall we go to Outcome? Ben, you want to set this one up quickly? Yeah, this is the new film from Jonah Hill, his second feature as director in a sort of fictional capacity. He previously made Mid-90s, which I really liked, and the documentary he made about his therapist was his last film. He's been through a lot since then, maybe some not so shiny allegations about him from people in his life and he's come back with what i have to say is one of my least favorite genres of films which is um somewhat cancelled person makes a film about being cancelled uh so it stars keanu reeves as reef hawk who is a beloved movie star uh the entire world loves him he does franchises but he also wins oscars he has been out of the game for a while excuse me Ben sorry you forgot to mention this two time Oscar winner I said Oscar winner yes call back to the movie and yes so he is about to make a bit of a comeback having been away for years secretly hiding issues with substances and his recovery from that but his agent receives basically a bit of blackmail saying we have an incriminating video of you and so he sets about reconnecting with people in his life who he may have wronged in some ways to apologize but mainly to root out like what is this video who has it what's on it where's it come from and so the film is like effectively a sort of apology tour and yet it's a cynical apology tour because it's motivated by what is the video and who can i uh how can i find it and how can i squash it and uh the film is i have to say an uncomfortable watch of like it seems to be jonah hill in some ways addressing what he has been through in these years and it is like a semi apology but also a semi like woe is me it sucks to be a celebrity and like everybody thinks they have something on you and it doesn't feel like it's particularly digging deep into that idea emotionally yeah the weird thing is keanu reeves is generally affable likable keanu reeves in the main role but jonah hill is also in this as reeves crisis lawyer playing a very very over-the-top comedy character who i found excruciatingly irritating i hated him so much he looks mad everything about him is wacky and he's just like a really over-the-top caricature and the whole thing is just a tonal oddity but it has like a weird psychedelic visual style it's full of celebrities martin scorsese is in this he's great he's so good he plays the the first guy who recognized reef's talent when he was a little kid and so reef reconnects with him and they have a really nice conversation in a bowling alley that is like the best scene in the film the rest of it I don't know.

1:15:36It just feels weirdly motivated. It didn't sit right with me in the big picture of things. And also just as a viewing experience, it's on Apple TV+. It's about 70, 75 minutes, but it kind of dragged even so. And also felt too slight. It's just a miss for me. And it's a shame because mid-90s I thought was excellent. I really like Keanu in this. I genuinely think he's on. I think he really identifies with this idea of, I've been famous and it has warped my life in some ways. I think that felt like there was something true there. But I hated pretty much everything else about it. And I should have been on board because you've got Cameron Diaz in there and Matt Bomer as his best friends and really good people.

1:16:23But yeah, I think my hatred of the Jonah Hill character and in particular one scene about victimhood turned me off this entire movie. but Keanu as ever is innocent yeah I didn't love it me neither I share your hatred of the Jonah Hill character did not work for me pretty much instantaneously and that energy was maintained throughout because I agree with you that Keanu is given a good performance in this but there is a school of thought that he's a bit miscast in this and I kind of agree with that because given what they're doing with this character, you need to believe that he could be as awful a person as the film is making it out to be.

1:17:08And at no point in the film, with Keanu being his affable self, do you fully sort of buy into the fact that he could have been there. There's a couple of moments where they try to make that clear. They try, but it doesn't go far enough. And the fact that they are so unspecific about what the awful things he has done were works against the movie as well. Well, because it turns out he doesn't know what the things are. Anyway, yeah, we gave this two stars, so let's not dwell on it anymore. Let's talk instead about Glenn Rothen, which is, as we said, Brian Cox's directorial debut. He also plays one of the two main characters, who is Sandy, who's been running the family distillery since his brother Donal, who's the Alan Cumming character, went off to America years before following an unclear argument.

1:17:59And we gradually, during the course of the film, learn what drove them apart and see if there's any way for them to get back together. This is kind of an old-fashioned sort of a movie, isn't it? Very much so. Very much so. I kind of dug it for the most part. I think Alan Cumming is at his best when he's on stage, much like his character in the film. When he's doing his singing and dancing act, he's actually really, really fun. and there's a few scenes of that. Brian Cox, he's playing, he's not playing Logan Roy in this, although he does dip back into a succession bag of tricks a couple of scenes, but for the most part, he's playing a character with a lot more warmth, and he's playing it very, very well, and he's an actor, he contains multitudes, I like that he's given himself this role.

1:18:44The theme of brotherly love eventually came through for me, that's kind of the spine of the film. Shirley Henderson might be the MVP of this entire thing for me, I thought she was great. She plays Jess, who had a relationship with Donal way back when, and she feels hurt by how Donal abandoned her. And she's also Sandy's right-hand woman, so it kind of works that well. Yeah, and she is fantastic. So even though you see where it's going quite early on, the excavation of those wounds feels patient and at times is emotional. There are times when the script works against the actors as quite cliched.

1:19:23the score is very cloying and trickly and distracting at times. The direction, it's a directorial debut. It's fine, but it's unambitious. There's a lot of scenes which just feel quite static. I'm not sure if you felt the same way. I didn't, to be honest, it didn't trip me because I think it's quite a classic story. It's classically told. I didn't have an issue with that. I really enjoyed young Alexander Wilkie as Sasha, who I thought was really good as sort of Donald's granddaughter, and Alexander Shipp as his daughter. they were nice they didn't get enough to do but they were nicely used that's what I was going to say they did and it's just quite a warm nice film I think I think it's a little bit Sunday night TV but I don't mean that in a totally disparaging way I also think by the way that Alan Cox gave a very good performance as his dad's dad so he plays Sandy and Donal's father because he looks like a young Brian Cox essentially and I thought he was really good he's also Watson and Young Sherlock Holmes.

1:20:24Oh, is that good? Fact fans. Have you never seen Young Sherlock Holmes? Oh, I thought you meant that there was a new Young Sherlock. No, no, the original Young Sherlock. Oh, okay. Well, I haven't seen it either. Oh, no, the new one is... I've watched one episode, put it that way. Okay. Anyway, we haven't got an official Empire review. Would you say that's a three? I feel like it's a three. It's a three. I think it's a three. I want to very quickly talk about Thrash, which is a shark movie on Netflix. So basically, there's a big storm surge and also a tanker full of blood crashes in a small town.

1:21:02And wouldn't you know it, sharks invade the town. And a bunch of people have to try to survive the sharks. Fun? Fun. Stupid. Very stupid. Very stupid, very rubbish. But I would be lying if I said I didn't have a fun time with this. It does some extremely stupid over-the-top stuff in the last act, which made me clap on my sofa and the ridiculousness of it all. Yeah, this is directed by Tommy Verkola who made Dead Snow and Violent Night. So he knows like a pulpy premise and he leans into this. It's basically Crawl, but with sharks, but not as good as Crawl. Crawl is actually quite mean and very toothy.

1:21:40This is a bit toothless, but has some fun with it. Phoebe Dynavor from Bridgerton is in this. She is pregnant and she has a conversation with her mother at the start of the film where her mum is like, oh, before you exit the town that is about to flood, how are you feeling about having a water birth for your baby? And immediately you know where the third act of the film is going. There is an incredible deployment of millennial anthem, a thousand miles, Vanessa Carlton, that is just so stupid. And there's a great line involving Phoebe Dynavor in the final act, which deserves to go viral. I believe it already is.

1:22:19it's trashy it's super trashy it kind of knows it you might watch it and be like this is total trash why am I wasting my time or you might watch it and go this is total trash I'm having a nice time yeah I'm having a nice time also again about like literally 75 minutes we're not even talking like 90 minutes here it's well sub 90 it does lose some points for setting up its own sequel in the closing moments of the film but you know I had a nice time nice to see Jaiman Hunsu playing essentially the shark expert who stands on the sidelines and goes, gosh, that would be awful. I hope he makes it. But the Phoebe Dynavore has me automatically interested.

1:22:58I loved her in Fair Play, which is the odd name. But Amon, if you're thinking that's going to mean character development and depth of performance, you're not going to find it here. Let us disabuse you of that notion immediately. Ben, you and I also wanted to pick up on something that came out a couple of weeks ago, I think now, which we missed at the time because Disney didn't tell us it was out. It's on Disney plus and that is pizza movie pizza movie pizza movie is fun this is a film by the duo known as brightanic uh that's brian mcclehaney and nick coca cocher sorry if i've mangled names i'm just going to call you brightanic and uh you know in 21 jump street the scene where they take the drug and they're tripping major ball sack yep pizza movie is that as an entire movie about two college friends who find some drugs that have fallen from the ceiling and they decide to take those drugs and quickly find out that they are in for a world of pain if they don't specifically eat pizza so they order pizza and they have to go down two flights of stairs to get the pizza and the entire film takes place within the span of them trying to get downstairs to eat this pizza meanwhile all kinds of crazy time dilation stuff is happening because of the various stages of the drug trip that they're on and it is just incredibly fun it's full of inventive filmmaking and just packed with like little comedic details all in the exploit of making something completely stupid it's like very very stupid and kind of smart at the same time Gaten Matarazzo from Stranger Things who to me was always one of the MVPs of that cast he's incredibly good he is one of the main guys along with Sean Jambroni and they are both very funny together they have a great dynamic uh lulu wilson who spent her entire childhood playing um haunted little girls in things like ouija origin of evil and uh annabelle creation has grown up to be a slightly less haunted young woman which is very nice to see she gets to have fun and not be spooked by things for once and they make a fun little trio um as they kind of move through the stages of this drug trip together.

1:25:10And it's a really good time. I honestly did not expect much, but I saw the words pizza movie and I was like, I like both of those things. I like pizzas, I like movies. Maybe I'll like a pizza movie. And I really did. Did you eat pizza while watching the movie? I didn't and I really should have. I'm planning a rewatch with my husband and that's the plan for the rewatch. It is, yeah, this is really, real stupid. I mean, it is really gonzo, bizarre craziness but I had a great time with it. There's just some delightfully odd choices throughout the film and some genre bending, reality bending stuff that really worked for me.

1:25:50It's kind of a throwback in a lot of ways to the kind of 80s, you know, teen movie. It feels like a little bit Revenge of the Nerdsy. It feels like it's got a sort of, it just feels like it's harking back to something as well as being quite modern. So I just thought that was great. And it's also the stoner comedy thing of Harold and Kumar and Jane and Silent Bob. And so the freewheeling silliness that you get from those films, it gives them permission. The drug trip thing gives them permission to do some wacky shit. To do a lot of that, yeah. I can't believe it's on Disney. I genuinely can't. But we don't have an Empire review.

1:26:22Honestly, I'd be closer to a four on this one. Yeah, I feel like this is something that I would give a four and then some people would yell at me and be like, why did you give Pizza Movie a four? And I'll say, because it's a good pizza movie. It's a fun time at the movies. It is. in pizza terms, it is a Dr. Oetker because it's cheap and it looks like it might be a bit rubbish, but actually it's delicious. I've said my piece. You've never had a Dr. Oetker Ristorante? I never would have particularly called it delicious, but maybe that's just me. Whoa, whoa, whoa. I wish you could see Ben's body language.

1:26:54I'm married to an Italian now. I think genuinely it would be cause for divorce if I were to say that I like a frozen pizza. No, but that's the thing about the Dr. Oetker. It's not official Napoli pizza, because that is the Christopher Nolan's and the Rian Johnson's of this world. But this is Britannic, and this is Dr. Oetker, and they cooked, and it's delicious. I will say that they cooked. I'm just not sure I can get on board with the full metaphor. You know, like, genuinely. Grounds for divorce. Okay, I'm sorry, that was an epic review section, but we had to catch up on a couple of those from last week.

1:27:30but that is it now for this week's Empire Podcast join us next week for more film related fun when we're going to be joined by the lovely David Lowery to talk about his new film Mother Mary from the mummy to Mother Mary you'd think that somebody had an Oedipus complex in the cinema these days wouldn't you my god they're everywhere but until then until that auspicious occasion until we meet again it is goodbye from Amon Warman peace it's goodbye from Ben Travis goodbye and it's goodbye from me I'm off to sadly bin all of my Spaceballs the search for more money merch that I'd had printed up in anticipation of this film's release it's hard times at the movies but in any case we'll be back next week and we look forward to seeing you then peace