Marlon Wayans, Tyriq Withers, Justin Tipping on Him: An Empire Podcast Interview Special

0:14Hello Pod, I'm Chris Hewitt and welcome to an Empire Podcast interview special. Justin Tipping's Hymn has just opened here in the UK a couple of weeks after it made its bow in the States. A Jordan Peele-produced, darkly comedic horror film about American football, it stars Tyreek Withers as Cam Wade, a not-becoming quarterback who has taken under the wing of his idol, Isaiah White, played by Marlon Wayans, only to find that the price of becoming the GOAT, greatest of all time, might just be too big to pay. In this interview special, our very own goat, Jamie Graham, makes his Empire Podcast interview debut by talking to both Withers and Wayans together and Tipping solo.

0:58You're going to hear that interview first, and it's a belter as Jamie and Justin dig into Tipping's thematic intentions for the film, working with Jordan Peele as producer, Tipping's reaction to mixed reviews, and his realisation that he might just have accidentally remade one of his favourite films. Here you go. It's a belter. Enjoy. So let's start right at the beginning. This film, Monkey Paw Productions, kind of bought it up immediately. It was on the blacklist for a while. So tell me, how did you get involved with it and what was the instant appeal? Yeah, the story, I guess, goes back to 2017 when my first feature came out.

1:39It's called Kicks and he had just won the Academy Award for Get Out and just started monkey pop productions yeah so around that same time he just wanted to meet other up-and-coming filmmakers and in a producing capacity we met then and was amazing he said you know was a fan and loved the movie you talked about movies and cinephile doubt and said let's find something so the seed was planted then and then years later you know this this story they they get a hold of and they were looking for a writer director to make it their own and i came from i grew up playing sports you know my whole life you know my first word was ball and all the things as a soccer player uh there was a period in college where i quickly realized i was the worst one in college even though i was maybe the best one um in high school but abandoned that and found film yeah and then that became the passion and like a lot of that energy went there became the film projectionist and all the things so when i first saw this this script and this concept it was like an immediate excitement i was like oh my wait what and i think what was most exciting was I was like, oh, kind of like, and I couldn't really point to a comp, at least the thing that I saw in my head, where I was like, oh, there's nothing really like that quite like this mashup.

3:18And I think that was the most exciting and terrifying thing. How was it actually working with Jordan? I mean, as a producer, I imagine he kind of lets you run with it, but he's obviously there if you need him bounce ideas. I mean, that must be wonderful. Yeah, it's a champagne problems. Because he does come from a filmmaking point of view, so it was like very hands-off in terms of like process. And then, you know, I get a draft finished and I could then sit down with him and we could page turn and he could give notes or I could be like, you know, these are the studio notes, but if I do this, it undoes that.

3:59And from a place of like, well, if you want to say this, what if you try that? And so, yeah, a very like, I think, like a goaded soundboard. He's a goat at being a soundboard. And it's like getting at a really amazing tennis rally where I'm like, oh, and I was thinking about this. And he's like, oh, that's crazy. Here's this idea. And I'm like, that's crazy. Here's this idea. And it just got – Raises your game, doesn't it? It gets you on your toes and it's like, oh, this is so fun. And it also comes to moments like in the edit, you know, like that last scene was definitely I was like mad scientist freaking out, no sleep for weeks with like 20 different versions cut and having someone like Jordan come in at the end.

4:55And I can be like, one too many Tim Heidecker dick jokes is going to throw it this way. And like too much time on Julia's knife in the neck is like, now we're like beyond camp. Now we're in a different. So trying to get through, there's so many, you know, tones to calibrate. Having him be able to like, to give feedback back and be like, oh, what have you tried this? and talking of ideas i mean you say you kind of had those ideas back and forth and saying what about this what about this i mean there's so many themes in this film was that kind of the instant appeal there's so much meat to get your teeth into absolutely and i felt like the that it is also like what an audience brings to it because i i come aware of certain themes but also aware that if someone doesn't get that theme or like here they can find an allegory easily find the allegory in another way yeah whether it be like socio-economic or um through the body horror yeah or through you know the celebrity like there it is i guess the quintessential American cultural experience, like American football.

6:23Yeah. And so when that becomes the guiding principle for a story, all the things that come with American culture are up for examination. Yeah. One of the things that runs through this film, It's almost like an occult horror film in a way that paganism is in there with this idea of giving blood sacrifices. And you play with the term goats, which, of course, in sport means greatest of all time. But there's animal sacrifices. Yeah. I mean, that must be fun to kind of stir that around the pot. Oh, yeah. We also knew like the monkey paw universe itself. Like we are like approaching development knowing people are going to go deep dive.

7:09Yeah. So we all, that's almost the most fun because even when I'm working with my production designer or DP, like we are, we are like aware that the conspiracy theories around, you know, billionaires and millionaires taking the blood of younger people in Silicon Valley, like absolutely aware that that is, you know, in the zeitgeist. Yeah. And that how do some of these people stay so young? How do they are? And it was absolutely both leaning into to have the fun and expose these different or exploit the different things on a societal level. And I think that's the fun of also what Jordan and what people are so good at.

8:05You say, how do people stay so young? I mean, Marlon Wayans in this film is incredible. I think he's like 53 or something in real life. And he doesn't look much different to what he did in Requiem for a Dream. Apart from he's far more pumped up now. So, I mean, why Marlon and why Tyreek as well? And the other as a kind of generational quarterback who wants to become the GOAT. Yeah, I think to... Like first and foremost, like the 90 % of directing is casting has been ingrained in me and they both had some parallel or I knew we're going to bring something unique, but also inherently built into the characters.

8:47So for Marlon, he's already a goat in the entertainment and comedy, and he knows nothing but greatness. Born in the youngest of his brothers and hanging out with Richard Pryor since he was like a kid. So good or bad, he had access and proximity to this wealth, celebrity, and greatness and what it takes. so I knew he had that and being a fan of like Requiem I knew it was there it's just he hasn't really had the opportunity yeah the dramatic chops and so it was most exciting to think of it that way since he already is vampiric by nature and not the other way because people did kind of instinctually be like oh well should we cast someone who looks and embodies like a pro athlete And for me, it was not thematically on point.

9:46Like I really did want to go older and to go with someone who already had this greatness about them and rather physically get him there. I think Tyreek was surprised people in this because, I mean, we all know he's a good looking strapping guy, but he really gets quite deep in this. I mean, those places I didn't expect. Yeah. Yeah. And that's exactly what I was hoping from this character where he's not yet, he wasn't yet big and he was very unknown. And, you know, it was very much out of fight or like pitch these ideas. Yeah. And he, but he had played sports and he had come from that world. And I think that lack of exposure to the industry and Hollywood and all the things were perfect because the character itself wasn't innocence.

10:44It was a loss of innocence and a fish out of water. So getting someone like him who's so grounded and of the locker room talk and all that swagger that you cannot direct the haptics and things. He just has it. And then throwing him into a world surrounded by personalities like Julia Fox, Marlon Wayans, and Tim Hadecker, and Jim Jefferies is just like, yeah, he's going to look around on set. And it's real. He's thrown into a world. And it was analogous to these characters. I mean, obviously, for this production, you'd want the guys to go away and train and come back looking the part. but did it surprise you when they turned up first day of set?

11:25I mean, Marlon particularly for a guy, I keep banging on about it. He's in his 50s, but he is ripped. No, it's nuts what he went through because we knew that's the direction we wanted to go, and I was in the prepping, preparing for if he wasn't going to look that way and wrapping my head around how we would execute. Yeah, like how do you execute this scene? How do you? But he went through this insane transformation, like insane. It's insane. And I would get updates like every week, like, oh, my gosh, like, check this out. And he could speak to it more. But he really went through like a spiritual and physical transformation.

12:07Yeah. And to go to go back to the themes, I mean, we touched upon paganism, but there's other religions as well. There's kind of Christianity in here. I find it very interesting. It's kind of conflated with American jingoism. And obviously it's caused a little bit of controversy. Like there's one scene where it reenacts The Last Supper and I think people have walked out of screenings. I mean, that's what art's for, isn't it? To be provocative at times. Thank God I'm in the UK where they appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, I much come from the camp of love me or hate me, but don't think nothing of me. Yeah.

12:40Apathy is, I can't, I can't. Nothing worse than a boring, boring film. We want things that get me going. At least I took risks, I guess. But, yeah, I think I knew. I was aware that we're taking on something that is sacred to American culture. And it's God family football. And I was raised Catholic, so I'm also traumatized. That was a Catholic joke. Full of guilt, I'm sure. Man, oh my God, so much guilt. Love is sacrificed. And it turns out it's not. But so those themes, yeah, they're inherent to who I am. And I knew that, yeah, it might turn some people away. It must help to have someone like Jordan behind you and, you know, Universal supporting it because you know you're going to get some flat don't you yeah I mean I don't think this movie exists or like how I was able to make it I don't think that's possible unless Jordan Peele yeah is a producer yeah like his stature his caliber his his uh him pun not intended but now it is um made that happen and and the fact that Universal Studios had like really like a blind faith kind of because i was making choices and that were like i can't again i couldn't point to a comp like no like this so there was a trust and like

14:24talking of explosive themes i mean there's also that whole thing it's very interesting that the saviors the football team are ran by a kind of cabal of middle-aged white guys and there's that whole theme where whether you call it exploitation in sport you could even say that football is modern day slavery in a way if you want to be really explosive yeah i mean would you go along with that yeah well before i made this movie the amount of like exposés from the new york times washington post there's that idea was already in in the ether in the culture so i do like to say i just held up a mirror like i'm not introducing new things um and that's yeah also some of the criticisms like what's new here mike i don't know if the same audiences are reading those articles um and and going that in depth but the i think that's for that's that's for the new audiences who are finding the movie if they do want to um if it elicits and hopefully it does have a conversation about um some deeper themes and what's what's going on and in professional sports that's the thing i have no problem i'm like the game is a game games are games like boxers are going to box knowing what's at stake guys are going to free solo and fall off that's just the human nature but i think it's the the commodification and the business around these athletes that we all participate in and um ignore and brush aside some some issues um all in service of the profit.

16:15Do you think it's possible to get to the top of sport without having that kind of toxic masculinity or that drive or that competitiveness? Yeah. Because you kind of need it. You have to absolutely go for it to get to that level, don't you? I'm so glad you asked this question. Good. I'm glad I asked it too. I don't. You don't? Interesting. And here's why. Same reason I don't believe in the myth of a tortured artist. Yes. I think it's bullshit. Yeah. You don't have to do 400 takes to get a performance. No. You're telling me you suck, actually. You don't have to work a crew. Would you say that to Stanley Keeble?

16:57I would. I look him dead in his eyeballs. That's fucking ridiculous. David Fincher. Fincher, no, he's still alive. I love him. Shout out, Fincher. But in the, I mean, that's a generalization. But in the sense of like, do you have to work a crew 20 hours? I don't wear that as a badge of honor. That's part of what this movie is about, is this exhaustion economy that we found ourselves in where we just push ourselves to the brink of death to deliver something that you could just get fired for the next day. And like, what's the point of that? Wait, what was the question? I just started going off. Do you need to push yourself?

17:34Do you need that toxicity? Here's the other thing. I think there's a misconception of there is like, there's like masculinity. Great. Divine masculine, all those things. I think there's just a misinterpretation of it. And I will say, no, that's debunked because like, look at Steph Curry. Yeah. Yeah. That guy's a great guy. As far as I know, it's pretty chill. Never changed up. Redefined a generation of an entire sport and how it's played. and I don't know. Someone like Roger Federer in tennis, nice guy, chatty in a changing room. I just really feel like we've been told that you have to be an asshole to be great.

18:21And I think that's just a justification for behaviour and for artists and athletes and celebrities that we all love. But I don't think it has to be that way. you said you can't see any comps for this film which i totally agree it's kind of totally out there on its own but i wonder do you watch any other movies to get anything or get in the spirit of it any other football movies like north dallas 40 or any given sunday which is another oliver stone intense like your film it's got so much intensity i mean do you look at those things yeah i remember any given sunday was the one i love that that movie's so stylish i watched did again i was like oh this holds up like oh my god and cameron diaz is like best performance in my opinion yeah um i even try to name one of the fake teams after the the expansion team that al pacino is going to to coach in this but i didn't get it past legal shout out legal you did good um the but really just the football um i i already know the machinations of a rudy or air bud or like the there you start off with a sports figure that can't do that is has the potential but can't do it they just need to address something else that has nothing to do with the game they do that and then they throw the winning touchdown or then they and um so i didn't want to to uh to to be beholden to that um we definitely wanted to to be more in service to more of a horror yeah um a subversive horror and start maybe in a in a very traditional underdog look at this kid who's got of potential and you know we're referencing nike ads and espn 30 for 30 montages with family and soundbites so that once we get to where we get to it can be a slow descent yeah you mentioned nike ads there and detractors of this film because it's kind of got mixed reviews but the detractors have mentioned like commercials and said it's like you know watching one big mtv video or something like that but to me i mean isn't that part and parcel of a message kind of style mimicking form because it's about this it's setting this world in this arena that is so intense and like the way you amp everything up the sound design the flash cuts everything to me kind of feeds into it that it needs to be that maximum maximalism can't say that yeah it is i mean do you agree with that was that be intention right from the off absolutely um yeah that wasn't a mistake fucking you know anything about art what's happening in american schools um yeah that's the point yeah is that we leaned all the way in and um it is it is meta it is it is it's satire it's um taking the beauty and the normalcy and making it haunting and seductive and attractive because that's the whole point of the professional sports is like, here's the pomp and circumstance, here's the fireworks and the thing and look over here in any kind of world that becomes commodified and dangerous.

21:52I always think it must be infuriating for a filmmaker when you set out to do something, you achieve exactly what you set out to do And then people like critics, maybe responding away, almost like you didn't mean to do that or it's a mistake. Or why the hell is it like this? Yeah, it has been interesting. It's happening in real time. Yeah. Mind you, where, yeah, I'm trying to ignore it. But also it's like it's funny to see people say like it's both cringe and dark and this. What? And I'm like, what? Yeah, you just described what we tried to do. Like that wasn't. So I think it is for whatever reason.

22:35Yeah. If it's new and it's a tone of people's expectations where it was going to be a very serious like horror. I don't I don't know. But I do know a lot of people also love it and get it. I think if you get it, you get it. Exactly right. And obviously there's a lot of humor in it as well. we should say that because it's such a dark film and we keep using that word intensity but with like Jim Jefferies in it you know there's a lot of a lot of black humor going on as well oh yeah and yeah so maybe that's why it works out here yeah you fucked up people in England

23:17and that's part of the that's part of the the trick or the seduction or the hypnosis that you could have Marlon make out with a fanatic and throw her head against the wall and watch her bleed out with her kids crying. And then the hard cut to Julia Fox saying it's just a typical Tuesday. Like, I don't know if you don't see the humor in that, then you just have bad taste. I agree with you. I agree with you. So final question for you, because our time is nearly up. But I mean, this obviously is a horror movie and a very different kind of horror movie in a way. But I just wonder, are you a fan of the genre in general?

23:59And have you got a goat horror film? I am. And oh, my gosh, this is going to be funny to unpack because I've only unpacked it till recently. One of my my goaded horrors, Alien. Brilliant. And when I break it down now, I'm like, shit, did I just try to make Alien again? because it's you're on a you're you're stuck in a in the place in the house in the house isolated you're isolated you're trying to figure out who's on your side and who's not in the crew the Jim Jefferies yeah yeah like and then the bigger evil is a corporation that is just using people as as disposable for a profit instead of something that that they the corporation is in need of and i was just like god damn i guess you know these movies really take a deep seat in your fucking psyche because uh yeah don't even know it's there yeah but i i didn't realize until after i made the movie sure but justin it was an absolute pleasure talking to you love the film so thank you so much for coming on the empire podcast thank you so much okay that was justin tipping and And now let's barrel straight into the interview with Tyreek Withers and Marlon Wayans.

25:21Wayans, of course, you know from his comedy background, he's one of the Wayans brothers and starred and co-wrote the likes of Scary Movie 1 and 2 and White Chicks. But he's also a fine dramatic actor, as seen in the likes of Requiem for a Dream and Air. Withers is very much to echo the themes of the film, an up-and-comer, seen in the likes of Atlanta and this year's I Know What You Did Last Summer remake. but he's set for the big time, and all as he confirms in his interview, without offering up a blood sacrifice. Which is nice. Oh, and he and Wayans talk about their age difference, the film's themes, getting pumped in the gym, not like that, horror movies, and much, much more.

26:01Enjoy. Marlon Wayans, Tyreke Withers, welcome to the Empire Podcast. Thanks for joining us today. Thank you, bro. Thanks for having me. This film is so extreme. I mean, I was watching it just sipping an oat latte and I came out the other side of it feeling bruised, battered, punished. I mean, how was it to film? Was it as extreme to do it as it was to watch it? You felt bruised, battered, all the extreme. Oh, latte? That's amazing. On the other side of your latte, you was... I think it was, to me, like one of the most amazing experiences I had on a set. Justin Tipping and Jordan Peele I think the two of them together allowed me to have a freedom that I haven't had on a film set and I really embraced and appreciated it I'd say same for me the level of fun we had in between takes on and off set I think that juxtaposed to how intense the movie is you need somebody like Marlon to really bring the joy, the jokes, the laughter try to keep up with them when it comes to jokes, I have a few dad jokes start opening for his stand-up shows and whatnot.

27:08But yeah, it was a fun, creatively satisfying experience where it pushed me to a certain level because Justin Tippin, he really took some big, bold swings for this one and produced by Jordan Peele. So the essence of his art is flowing throughout all the filmmakers and actors and crew members for this project. We'll talk about the psychological side in a minute and the themes, but I want to start off with a physicality because you guys are ripped in this film. I mean, you're like Olympian gods. So tell me, how did you get in shape? I mean, that must have been months and months. I had breasts before we began, man.

27:47I had a belly and breasts, lots of red wine and steaks over quarantine. And it was just time to get in shape. And God gave me this project and he knows that I'd dive in and commit 150%. And to me, it breathed new life into me as Marlon. So I'm grateful for Isaiah. Yeah. And I'd say for me, you know, seeing Marlon really attack the gym, you know, being twice my age. Can I? No, but like, it sounds like I'm poking fun. But like, yeah, it was like, it sounds like I'm poking fun. He's going to die way before me. But I'm not. It was like a peer, you know, having him like really show up and show out like the competition.

28:32was necessary for this film, especially the character dynamic and, you know, working out six times a week, twice a day, doing mental exercises. You know, there's a lot of meditation, a lot of red light therapy, a lot of journaling, a lot of reading. And then that affects the performance, you know. And I think while you're shooting, you have to keep up the physique. You have to keep up the proper throwing mechanics and emotionally explore your character. and then the scenes to come. So, yeah, I think the difficulty just helped with the performance because, you know, physically getting in shape helped me get in shape other ways as well.

29:14Does it get competitive on set? Because I once talked to Josh Brolin about Only the Brave, that firefighting film, and he was saying all the young guys were kind of pumping weights between takes. Josh was sort of twice the age of most of his co-stars and he was pumping even bigger weights than they were. and they were like, wow. I mean, was it a bit like that with you guys? I mean, because it's not just you two. It's quite a lot of you on there. I know for me as the elder statesman, I got to preserve my energy. I did all the work beforehand. Right. And so, you know, sometimes between takes, if I didn't get a workout in, we go in that little gym that they had on set and we get a quick workout in.

29:48But, you know, it was more about preservation and the mental state that I had to keep myself in. And I felt bad for him because he had to throw a lot. and he had ice on his arm and I'd be like poor baby waking up from a nap no but I think there's a quiet competition too like the physicality you know as a quarterback there's a competition to like really look like a real quarterback and I didn't approach it with that mature mindset because preserving the temple I didn't really do that I threw my arm out first day you know and so a lot of the scenes you see it's real pain and frustration that I'm witnessing so which helped with the character but also i think um the competition the quiet competition where like he'll bring it to a scene and you're like oh they're gonna flip the cameras to me i have to like lock in and yeah uh there's this one scene where he went really big and like hit his chest hard and like he got bruised from that and then uh justin's like all right let's see what you're gonna bring and then but like i think the cool like thing about partner that's when you beat my face no no like three million times no i was like how can i best support the scene and you as an artist where you that was your choice and you know i i juxtapose that like that the boldness to like just the stillness and i think that scene is so powerful because it's two people uh feeling the same emotion but differently uh and you know i think that competition just helps the performance in all scenes one of the mantras in the film is no guts to no glory.

31:24I wondered, I mean, we see it in so many films like Black Swan, Whiplash, that to get to the top of a profession, you need to be hungry, you need to be driven, you've got to really go for it 100%. I mean, do you think it's possible to get to the very elite level without doing that? No. Yeah. I think if you are, you can visit the top of the mountain, but you're going to slide off. If you want to stay there, it's going to take work. And I've been here 35 years and I'm still climbing. because I am relentless in my work ethic and I'm not done. I'm not there. I never made it because I'm going to always stay a student and I'm always going to put everything I got into every ounce of every performance.

32:08I don't care if that's on stage. I don't care if it's writing. I don't care if it's producing. I don't care if it's acting dramatic. I don't care if it's a character. I'm going to give it everything because I don't know where it is. I was going to ask if there's any similarity with the acting profession because you guys to get to the top, it's the same thing. You've got to sacrifice. And something I tell him is like, look, you can get to the top. You can be the guy, but rare guys are the guy and stays the guy. There's only been maybe a handful of guys that was the guy. Like Tom Cruise has always been the guy.

32:45But if you don't think Tom Cruise is possessed in terms of his work ethic and what he does and he gets better, how do you get better after all this time? Because he stays a student. Eddie Murphy, you know, guys that just have been here at that level for that long, it got to be the work. So Tyreek, I mean, you've had a great year. You've had, I know, what you did last summer and now this. I mean, are you making blood sacrifices to kind of get there? No. I absolutely not. Let's put that on record. You know, I do like my steak medium rare. So maybe that's part of it. Yeah, no, I'm just grateful. You know, it's everybody sees the finished product, but they don't see the decades of figuring it out.

33:35You know, the pain, the suffering that, you know, life throws at you. And I think that's the beauty of art. You just take all that and pour it into a project. And, you know, I got to film a movie, Reminders of Him this year. So that was a whole different ballgame where you live in that quiet vulnerability as a man. But yeah, I'm just super grateful because it's been a work in progress. And now they're finally coming out. And, you know, through prayer, through building a village, having a village and really locking in on the craft. I'm just grateful that people were able to finally see the work.

34:10and there's a lot of themes in this film swirling around sort of big meaty themes like cult of celebrity there's religion in there there's toxic masculinity there's so many things i mean how much do you guys dig into that or do you just sort of do what's on the page i mean are you kind of working through these themes with justin um i think some of it is working through some of it with justin but i think the other part of it is you know i think you have to have your own interpretation of the text as an artist and find out where you live and breathe and coincide with the character so that you can bring all those feelings truthfully to the surface.

34:53So a lot of mine, I delved into the vulnerability and the human nature of what an arrogant goat like Isaiah would be and I found that he's really insecure. And when I pull from there, you get textures, you get layers. There's something beneath what that bravado is saying and it's vulnerable. And obviously, I mean, the cabal who kind of run the saviors, who run this American football team, they're all kind of middle-aged white dudes. So I just wondered, I mean, is there a theme there or am I seeing too much into it as sort of football as exploitation, even modern day slavery in a way? I think sports period.

35:36I think every industry can be looked at that way. And I think every player, you know, everybody's so disposable nowadays. Oh, you get injured, somebody else comes along. And it's like when it comes to the big contracts, I'm like, yeah, pay those athletes, pay them. Because the big companies are making money. They should make money too. Same with actors. If, you know, the studios are making a lot of money, pay them because they're giving their blood, sweat and tears to this thing, especially like footballers, their bodies, their brains. It's a lot. So I'm glad that college kids are starting to make money and make money on their jerseys.

36:10And I think it's fair. And I think it's good to attack the establishment. Now, Marlon, it's great to see you in a dramatic role. I mean, I remember you in Requiem for a Dream, which I absolutely adored. I mean, do you kind of get something different out of these roles to what you do in your comedy and stuff like scary movie? Oh, yeah, definitely. It's a whole different world. It's all energy, right? Like when you're doing scary movie and doing comedy, comedy is up here. Everything's up there. You're thinking it's a desperate, desperate medium. And I come from sketch and I come from parody. Comedy itself is a desperate thing.

36:48But when you do sketch, stand up and parody, everything got to be funny all the time. So when I get to be still, and I take all that desperation and I just get to own it and hone it and then focus it and then put it out literally and I could just be vulnerable and I could just feel it's a vacation from comedy and it's easier for me to do drama because I got a lot of pain. There's a lot that I run from that I don't deal with because comedians were sick people. Something terrible happens to me. The first thing I go is what's funny about this? yeah right I don't even deal with the pain I take the pulp I throw it away somewhere and I don't mess with that until I do a drama and it's like hey remember that stuff that you didn't talk about when the stuff that you was making fun of let's deal with that so is it cathartic when you finally yeah absolutely okay a final question guys because our time is up but this is obviously a horror movie and I just wondered are you fans of the genre and do you have a goat do you have a goat horror movie no uh before we get into that one thing that i remember you saying that was powerful was like am i chasing something or am i running from something and i think that that is the existential question uh especially from an artist and uh i think we're all mosaics of uh our past trauma and pain life you know the good experiences the bad and seeing marlon really pour his blood sweat tears into this uh this role has been something i'll hold to my heart dearly so uh i think yes he brings such light to to to to the set but i think it takes a certain amount of darkness to like really weather throughout life to be that bright so um i'm grateful to have witnessed that so it's one of the blood out there too brother yeah the horror question but you had a question So for me, I made a living making fun of horror movies.