Middle-Aged Sex And Death At Camp Empire

26:54Incredible. It's mad. It's mad, yeah. I went to Venice and spent the whole time just being in Don't Look Now land. That was it for me. Any dark alleyway, you know, shutters flapping in the wind at night. I was there. I was in Venice the other week, so I went on holiday to Italy, and I very nearly did a day trip pilgrimage to have a kind of an Attack of the Clones location visit. Yeah. I didn't in the end, so I didn't get to see the giant inflatable cow things, mainly because I hate sand. It's irritating, isn't it? Gets everywhere. Gets everywhere, yeah. Yeah, of course, of course. Of course. Of course, with an A.

27:28Okay, well, that's probably enough questions, I think, for now. Thank you so much for sending them in. I don't know where Chris will turn next week to ask for questions, so just keep active on all social media out there. This is a paid message from GoFundMe. Meet Juan Naula. When a son was hospitalized for a viral infection, Juan started a GoFundMe to pay for medical expenses. It was 5K to pay the bill for my son, and I needed only 22 hours. It was amazing. People really trust on GoFundMe. How did Juan raise$5 ,000 in less than a day? He posted a short video on GoFundMe, telling his story in 30 seconds.

28:0630 seconds. Be specific, be quick, and tell what are you going to be using the funds for. I was nervous to do it because it doesn't feel okay to ask money, but you shouldn't be nervous. Sometimes you just have to do it and see the results. We were able to save my son's life. Thanks to GoFundMe that we still have my son with us. Start your GoFundMe today at GoFundMe.com. That's GoFundMe.com. GoFundMe.com. This message reflects one person's experience. Let us look to movie news, shall we? Most of what there is comes from D23 last week, I think I'm right in saying. We should really have Ben here to talk us through it, but he's not in the office today.

28:50Yeah, but what do we have? Let's talk a little bit about the X-Men casting, because we mentioned it last week. We were speculating about it. And we didn't do a special podcast. So we can do that now. So we can do that now. So we had speculated about some of these names, but they have now been announced. So if you still haven't seen Spider-Man Brand New Day, like fast forward a few minutes, You're going to have to skip this section and just get your X-Men news somewhere else because we're about to spoil a plot element in Spider-Man Brand New Day. Okay? All right. So this is your warning. Go away.

29:23Okay, they've gone. So we can now say openly that Sadie Sink has been confirmed that she is playing Jean Grey. This is not a surprise to anyone who did see Spider-Man Brand New Day. But that is now open. That's out there. That is confirmed. We also know that Kit Connor of Heartstopper fame will be playing Cyclops, as widely rumoured, and that Christopher Abbott will be Professor Charles Xavier. That's the only one that's weirding me out at the moment. That's not to say he's weird bad, but it is weirding me out. So I've been thinking about it, because we were a bit sceptical of that when we talked about it last week, and I think he has the right face for it, but yes, I think of him as being much more her suit.

30:00Very much so. So I'm going to be interested to see how he looks as a baldy. No disrespect. No, that's fine. Speaking for my people. But yeah, that was interesting. And then we have a relative newcomer called Maya Boyd, who has up until now, I think, mostly been in theatre. This is definitely her film debut. I don't think she's done much TV, but she's played the lead role in And Juliet, I believe, on Broadway and done that kind of thing. So she's clearly very, very accomplished, and that'll be an interesting person to take that role. And then, who am I forgetting? Indy Navarette of Obsession fame.

30:33Yes. as Rogue. And I am so happy about this. I cannot even tell you. You know why? Because Mystique is not a fucking X-Man, okay? And if she's going to be in this, if you're going to get an actress that good, I want her to be a fucking X-Man. So she's going to be Rogue. Fantastic. No notes. Really, really here for that. That's the one I'm excited by. Out of all of that cast, it's Indy Navarrete. Just the fact that, I mean, Obsession, the guy in Obsession, I thought was okay. I thought she was just barnstorming. Incredible. Just so terrifying. And yeah, just the force of her entering this world is very, very exciting to me.

31:11And I think it sort of implies that they're going, you know, in an interesting direction with Rogue. I wonder if this is bad news for Carol Danvers in the MCU. So just to explain that. Well, I don't know. Just to explain that comment, just for anybody who hasn't read the comics, because this hasn't really been done in the films before. So Rogue's power, for those who don't remember the original X-Men films or the comics, is that she absorbs other people's power. And if she only touches you for a couple of seconds, skin to skin, she maybe only gets your power for a short... And an HR warning. And an HR warning, yes.

31:45She only gets your power for a short space of time. But if she kind of clings on for too long, she can basically suck the life straight out of you. Wow. And in the comics, she essentially, maybe not quite permanently because nothing is permanent in comics, but for a very long time, completely incapacitates Captain Marvel. like, absolutely takes all of her powers for herself. And she can then fly. And she is then invulnerable. And Carol Danvers is just left as an ordinary person. So that was a really interesting thing, because in the comics, it actually gave Rogue a huge amount of guilt. She felt terrible about this.

32:19It wasn't intentional. She had been led on and had been, yes, working with the villains, but she herself was not a bad person. But she has this very sort of parasitic power that can do really bad things to people. So it's an interesting thing that they haven't... They kind of delved into a little bit in the very first X-Men, but then they just turned it into this kind of star-crossed lovers thing and didn't really do very much with her as a person and that sort of sense of guilt and sense of fear of her own powers and those kind of things. So I'm kind of interested by this. Oh, I agree. I think it also defines Rogue's powers as we understand them from the comics.

32:56Like, when we think of Rogue, we don't just think of, oh, yeah, she sucks people. you think of her as having essentially Captain Marvel's powers as flying being super strong all that sort of stuff and that's a really interesting side of Rogue that we've not seen in the live action stuff so I'm excited about that I think Samara Weaving is going to be great as Emma Frost oh my god just perfect casting no notes very pleased about that and again not being funny Adam Driver Mr. Sinister that's spot on that's really good and I think also you know with love and respect I don't expect Adam Driver to sign on to a nine film deal for the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

33:30I think he's in for a one and done. Yeah. If not, I mean, maybe they've got a contract that says, look, we might want you to come back and, you know, cameo in somebody's dream sequence in 10 films time or something. And maybe he's like, yeah, fine. But I feel like he doesn't seem to be courting that kind of work. So I hope that that means if he has signed up to it, that they've got something really fun, really exciting for him to do. And that also that's an arc with an end. Do you not think he'd maybe do a trilogy though? Like Star Wars. I fully agree he's not going to do 10, but he may have signed up for two or three.

34:02I mean, look, it's possible, but I don't know that he entirely loved his Star Wars experience. No, no. So I wouldn't be surprised if this is a one and done. But look, again, this is not to say, oh, we'll see the last of Mr. Sinister. He may turn up again in smaller capacities. Yeah, I mean, Sinister doesn't feel to me like necessarily a multi-arc villain. It feels like you can dispense with him in an episode. But then Marauders, there's a lot to talk about. I mean, he's had quite a literal storied history. So, I don't know. We'll see. Yeah, but good stuff. Also, at D23, what else did we get? We got Frozen 3 details.

34:39There appears to be a baddie magic user there. Someone else with ice powers who interrupts Anna and what's his name? Kristoff's honeymoon and wedding and or wedding. So, you know, lots of trauma there to get into. That'll be fun. Coco 2 has also been announced Coco's with a dollar sign Coco's with a dollar sign through it I mean yes probably unlike where they put the dollar sign do you know they have to start the film with remember me because the film was a while ago ah hey Frozen 3 where do they put the dollar sign there that's good is it like a euro I think it's a euro sign in the E maybe in the three maybe in the three and it's a pound sign yes there we go okay thank goodness we figured this out Anyway, Coco 2 will see our hero now as an adolescent, and he ends up back in the land of the dead and finds himself having to team up with Ernesto de la Cruz, his disgraced former idol from last time.

35:40So Benjamin Bratt has confirmed he's back as Ernesto, and it sounds like it is going to be some kind of, well, X-Men 2 kind of team up of the bad guy from the last film with the good guy of the last film to take down or whatever. so apparently Benjamin Bratt said he was excited to bring him back to death which I thought was a good little thing I like that but yeah that's happening so the last one won what two Oscars it's a lovely film as well it's a lovely film made the best part of a billion dollars I guess I get why they're doing that so that'll be interesting I think so that is Lee Unkridge and Adrian Molina directing Adrian Molina of Elio fame if that's the word for Elio I was about to say I'm not sure of Elio Infamy.

36:22Not Infamy. Hey, hello. They've all got it Infamy, but Elio's fine. And also in the sequel news, so what was hilarious to me was that they brought Anne Hathaway out on stage to say that, yeah, we're working really hard in The Princess Diaries 3, but we have nothing to announce. Amazing. So, like, they haven't got it quite yet, but they're working on it, guys. Don't worry. It's happening. I'm hanging in there. I am hanging in there. Hey, that is a generation-defining series of movies. Okay, okay. I want to talk about Romeo and Michelle's... Oh, my goodness. ...sequel for that. That is the most exciting news.

36:56That is it. Yes. It does look amazing. Look, they invented post-its. I get it. They have a very storied history, but still. So, can you explain what Romeo and Michelle's High School Reunion is to anyone who is unfamiliar with the oeuvre? Well, it is Romeo and Michelle who are just BFFs and... Played by... Played by Lisa Cudrow and Mira Salvino. Indeed. And apparently in this sequel, they're looking for true love. So it's interesting if that would get between their friendship whatsoever. Nothing can ever get between their friendship, I insist. I just, I can't remember a lot from the original. It's a long time since I've seen it, but I do remember that dance scene.

37:36Oh, it's amazing. There's incredible dancing around their handbags, isn't there? Basically, they are just living their best life in LA, but being called back for their high school reunion forces them to realise that maybe their best lives aren't that impressive. they haven't invented anything, they haven't gotten married, they haven't had kids, you know, there's nothing really to report. They've got a boutique, haven't they? Fashion boutique. Kind of, yeah, but it's not like a big deal. So they basically dress themselves up as business ladies in hilarious business suits, and pretend that they invented post-its, and turn up to their thing.

38:07Unbeknownst to them, their friend, Janang Rolfolo, does know the inventor of post-its, and is able to call them on that, so they get in a little bit of trouble there. And there's a love triangle slash love thread with Alan Cumming. Yes. As well. So great cast. They're all still awesome. I mean. It's just very funny and very sweet, the original. Yeah, and very silly. Yeah, very silly. They're complete airheads. And it's part of the Tarantino-verse. Okay. Because it features, I can't remember if it's red apple cigarettes, but it features one of his brands because Mira Sovino was dating Tarantino at the time when it was made.

38:46so hope that carries as well hey he's still looking for his 10th film right Romy and Michelle's continuing high school endeavours would make a great capper for his career that could be it the high point go out on a high absolutely it's the one we want to see there was also Zetropolis 3 which I thought yes you're like who said there are no new ideas in Hollywood and Incredibles 3 came out Incredibles 3 as well did they not see Incredibles 2? Well, apparently this one's going to focus on the kids, now teenagers. Oh, so they've decided to make this one good. Okay, good. Well, we can hope. And Yazoo Troubles 3 is going to be, well, Gary came along to...

39:24The snake. Yes. Well, no, but Kihui Kwan came along with Jennifer Goodwin to announce this one. Jason Bateman wasn't there, but we have to assume that the fox is back. Well, he's a fox. He's sly. It has to be. Non-negotiable. But apparently this one will feature birds. For all those who've been wondering, where are the birds in this world? The answer is the third installment. Okay. I wasn't wondering that, but I'm glad to hear it. Why not? These are major questions that you should have been asking. Wow. Okay. Couple more things. There was more Doomsday footage. There was. There was a new trailer.

40:01Yeah. What did you think? I was very, very excited about this. My excitement for this film remains undimmed. Yeah, I'm very excited about it. I think Doom looks scary, fun. You're getting an idea for him. like he you know Sue Storm is essentially telling us you know his backstory you know when his wife and child die and then he essentially turns to the dark side and you know I'm feeling another Dark Side's a different comic book universe it's true but it is still Disney so it could be related you know I'm feeling another misunderstood villain and I'm here for it I'm very very excited I'm pre-exhausted but I mean yeah fine I don't know that I need him to have the most sympathetic backstory if he is going around stealing kids and destroying universes, but I'm sure we'll all enjoy it when it comes.

40:46Yes. But yes, this was actually pretty cool and did give you more of a sense of how the battle lines are being drawn, who's meeting who and when, a little bit in this one. And also that it gives you that sense that there is a pre-existing relationship between the Fantastic Four and Doom, which I feel like is kind of an important thing to establish given that he is... I guess we kind of know it, don't we? Given that he's a historical, he is their nemesis, and obviously it appears at the end of First Steps. from behind. But that's all we've had. So I feel like it is good to have a little bit of a speech somewhere in here explaining.

41:17Well, you remember you saw the Latverian seat in our UN. Well, the reason for that is we've had long, long years of friendship with this guy, Victor Von Doom, who despite his name is super lovely. Just the biggest teddy bear. It's called Dr. Doom. Well, yes, but you know, it's just a local word meaning lovely. Isn't it? It's like Die Bart Die. With all of these announcements coming out of D23, do you feel that the MCU is really back on track? I think the jury's out on that. I think Spider-Man is an anomaly, a very big anomaly with an enormous box office now that it has surpassed the box office gross of Infinity War.

41:56Massive. Yeah, which is... At the US, I think. Not well-wide. Is it not well-wide? I believe so. Yeah, it's US, domestic. But I think once we've seen Doomsday, I think we'll be able to make a call on that. Yeah. because we've talked about this many, many times. Doomsday isn't Infinity War. It hasn't earned what Infinity War had earned. And crucially, you don't have the investment in the characters you had going into Infinity War. So it's got a lot, not stacked against it, but it has a lot of ground to cover and it has a much larger task ahead of it than Infinity War did because it's not a pre-earned cinematic event.

42:33They want it to be one and it may be one, but I don't think that's a given. But I think, you know, you could say that even if Doomsday dies on its arse, Spider-Man alone, that box office alone, I think has bought the MCU a decent amount of leeway. But I feel like if Doomsday really lands, then it does feel like, yeah, the comic movies and Marvel have got a second win. I'm thinking we're back. It's going to be an interesting one because Disney actually has not had the best year overall. They do not get all that Spider-Man money. A lot of that is Sony, who own the character rights. a lot of what they've done this year has been maybe a bit disappointing.

43:12Toy Story 5 obviously being the big exception to that, but they have not had the best. No, in terms of box office and so on. But I think in terms of this year, it has not been an all-timer for them. So I think they're going to be hoping that next year, and certainly Doomsday, first of all, and then next year really brings it home. But they were really giving it the big hoopla, weren't they, and trumpeting Star Wars Starfighter with Ryan Gosling, which they're obviously hoping will be welcomed. And they played the trailer in the room for that, didn't they? Yeah, but I haven't seen it. But we haven't seen it.

43:43Now, I really want to see that trailer because I think that, for me, is going to determine whether or not I'm excited or depressed. But every day is Christmas Eve. It is, but also I saw The Mandalorian in Brogu, which is not good, despite what Ben says. And I feel like, for me, Star Wars is in a bad place. And I think part of that is Andor's fault, honestly. I've talked about this before. I think, and or ruin Star Wars, because it's so good and nothing else goes anywhere near it at this point. But I have some hope, a new hope, if you will, for Starfighter. Just some daring do might fix it. Yeah, a little bit.

44:20Also potentially huge for 2028, I think. Fast forever. Now, Vin Diesel, a man of unimpeachable integrity, who has never made an announcement that he could not immediately back up. right I want to be very clear on that yeah has said that shooting will start in December okay and that they've been through four sets of writers wow but that the script that they now have made him cry and he says even tough guys will cry sometimes so unless he falls out with one or more of his castmates before then that would never happen come on not then at this point I'm like for fuck's sake we've been through 10 films give us the last one for God's sake I just want to see it and I want it to be everything I want it to be the most over the top bombastic, ridiculous cinematic experience known to man.

45:08And if it's anything less than that, it's a failure. It will be. That seems entirely fair. Wow. He was talking at the 25th, God help us, anniversary of the first Fast and Furious film. But he literally said by the end of the script that we crafted and worked so hard to make right for you after four years. I was crying. I couldn't hold it back. And I had to tell everyone. And my sister said, no more crying, bro. So I just want to say that sometimes even the toughest guys in the world need to cry. That's lovely. Look at him. Is it, though? Because this is the bit that worries me. Because I've always felt like Fast and Furious is hilarious and everyone is in on the joke except Vin Diesel.

45:46And if that screenplay made him cry, I put it to you that it is maybe not doing what we all think it's going to do. That's true. I like the fact that his sister said to him, no more crying, bro. Yeah, no more crying. This is hilarious. A guy just head-butted a tank. And it's like, well, okay, fine. but I like that it's family though if you headbutted a tank your eyes would water too it would make me cry so yeah and last we heard Louis Leterrier hadn't read the script even though he's meant to be directing it so but he said there will be an ending and it's great I was very very lucky to be part of the franchise and I love Vin and I love Universal so yeah we'll see there will be an ending it's great I haven't read it yet but it's great there's still time but yeah it's happening probably guys so hooray that franchise will never get more emotional than when Paul Walker drives off.

46:35Is it number seven? Yeah, yeah. They go their separate ways. I mean, that genuinely killed him. Yeah, that was genuinely emotional. Yeah, really emotional. It was. So did Vin cry then? I'm sure he did. I think he did. Yeah. We should also finish with some very sad news that came out this week, which is obviously the death of Hayden Panettiere at the age of just 36. I think for many of us, she sort of defined a moment with heroes and with the Save the Cheerleader kind of slogan and her character that came out of that, which was wonderful. But she did incredible work in Nashville. Just really stunning and really sad news.

47:11And not the only person that we lost this week. No, we also lost John Irvin, who's a British filmmaker, a lot older than Hayden. He was 86 when he passed. But people will know him. He directed Raw Deal, one of the early Arnie films. He did the original Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy with Alec Guinness on TV, which won various awards. and is absolutely fantastic. I urge people to seek it out if you haven't seen it. I think it's still on iPlayer if you haven't seen it. Yeah, I'm sure it is. And the film's tremendous as well, but this being kind of five episodes, five hours, goes a little bit deeper. It's fantastic.

47:44And he also made John Irvin. He made Hamburger Hill, which was part of that whole kind of late 80s Vietnam War when you had, you know, Platoon and Full Metal Jacket and all of those films coming out. And Hamburger Hill, at the time, I mean, I was only about 15 and I was really into my Vietnam films. And for a moment, it was my favourite just because it was so gory. It's just a bunch of guys going up a hill and just attack after attack being repelled and just blood and limbs everywhere. Watching it, you know, later on in life, it's maybe not as good as the other ones from that cycle of movies, but it's still well worth seeking out.

48:20So it is a real loss, John Irvin. Yeah, absolutely. So our thoughts go out to their families and friends today. But this is a, yeah, it's been a sad week, week, especially with, you know, the tributes pouring into Hayden Panciera at such a young age. All right. Well, I think that's enough news for today. Let's move on to an interview. And I will say we are delighted this week to be joined by Jane Schoenbrunn, who is, of course, the director behind We're All Going to the World's Fair and I Saw the TV Glow. And they are back this week with the fantastic Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma. Now, to be clear, the Empire Pause podcast is not endorsing teenage sex or death um actually but we do endorse this film um in which a young filmmaker played by hannah einbender tries to persuade the reclusive original star of a horror horror franchise that she's rebooting to sign on once more that's jillian anderson's character and we also obviously uh endorse sean burn themselves as well so we sent harry stainer along to find out more please enjoy jane shubrin welcome to the empire podcast your film is in u.s cinemas today how are you feeling um it's like a little bit of a like end of a marathon feeling honestly because

49:35Jane Schoenbrun:you um when you make a movie you have so many opportunities to sort of like celebrate it for the quote-unquote last time um you know there there's the you wrap production we made the movie you you know you finish the edit we locked the picture we actually finished the movie it's done the festival premiere, et cetera, et cetera. So it's been just like half a year of celebration, honestly, and, and getting to share it with audiences. I think I've been at Q and A's every night for the last two weeks, um, getting to hear audiences react to it, um, laugh, which is really nice. Uh, talking about it to the press, seeing the reviews, it's like such a long road leading to it.

50:19Jane Schoenbrun:It almost feels like the bottom of a water slide, You know, it's like, all right, now it's dropped into the water and it's out in the world for real. So accomplished and tired. I was going to say, you were saying laughed. And I think that was the thing when I first saw this. I was like, this is an incredibly funny film at points. And I think Hannah and Gillian have such a kind of like lovely stoner dynamic. And I was like, how did you go about building that dynamic on set? The dynamic between Hannah and Gillian. Yeah. Um, yeah, because they both showed up, uh, having done so much work, like figuring out their takes on these characters.

50:59Jane Schoenbrun:And in a lot of ways, like they're like freaky, weird takes on the characters. Like they each had the kind of like individual comic understanding of like who these people were in, in like the way that the movie is about two weird people meeting each other and forming a connection. and then I do remember the um yeah I think it was like three days before we started shooting when we first got the two of them together in a room um and they were so dialed in to like the comic timing I remember like sitting there being like oh we've got like a good movie like the movie in many ways is just like a house for the two of them to to live in um they were and they were so yeah the chemistry was just there they had done all of this work to prep but then there is also this element of like it really only is going to hit if they're uh if if if if if the the fire is there and the fire was just there and in both like the the performers and these these strange people that they had created yeah i wanted to take you back to the kind of the opening montage of the film because you're essentially creating what is someone who is little death is meant to be someone that exists alongside kind of freddy and jason jason and where where's the starting point of coming up with that kind of iconography of like making like a horror villain that's meant to have existed through like multiple errors essentially i think the key thing for me was um not doing not doing something that was like a contemporary referential sort of um reflection on the iconography of the slasher film, but to like sort of put myself through the thought experiment of like, if I was alive in 1983 and I was like, Ooh, there's Jason, there's Freddie, there's, there's Mike Myers.

52:58Jane Schoenbrun:Like who's my guy? Which honestly, like, I remember thinking about that in high school. Like that's not a new question for me. That's like a fun question. But I do feel like it's just, it's been 40 years or whatever of slasher movies at this point. and now the like cliches of the medium are so well refined that um it's like when we see another hockey mask or like something that feels like the off-brand like store you know the store brand of of like hockey mask it's like oh we made it look like close enough to remind you of jason or mike myers without getting sued um it feels so much uh uh so much less so much less exciting or it it feels like it starts to feel like an impression of the thing rather than the thing you know and so this is something you have some experience with with my movies um is uh is trying to like cross through all the way to um to to like not doing a throwback to pastiche in the obvious way that we're used to you know um but but, but, but getting like right into the heart of it.

54:15Jane Schoenbrun:Like even with TV glow, I remember being like, no fucking bicycles in this movie. Like kids are not allowed to ride on bicycles because bicycles in the suburbs are like overdone. You know, it's been bled of its power. So then the question became like, I knew that the question was like, how do I create something that like could be believably iconic in the way that like a Jason or a Freddie or a Mike Myers was iconic. And I knew it needed to be something like simple, but incredibly memorable. And then I was lying in bed at my ex's house or at my ex's parents' house one Christmas and I was staring up at the ceiling and I saw the air vent, you know, this thing that here in the US is on like every ceiling in the country almost.

55:06Jane Schoenbrun:it's like that symbol of those boxes within boxes. I know maybe it doesn't quite travel in the same way, but in America, it's like, it's, it's completely ubiquitous. It's everywhere and it's everywhere in this invisible way, or it's so common that you don't really see it anymore in the same way, for instance, that like power lines stretch across the country. But, but we kind of like have learned to look past them. I just saw it and I was like, Oh, that that's the mask. There it is. And I didn't overthink it because to overthink it would have been beside the point it needed to be like, yeah, like one of these elements in the movie that like makes an uncanny intuitive sense, but not like a metaphorical sense.

55:48I think it's perfect because I was in the cinema the other day and I saw like a standee of Little Death and I my brain just went like oh it's a it's a horror film and then I was like I'd already seen the film and I was like oh wait that's Camp Miasma and it's instantly you're like oh Freddy Jason and I think that opening sequence because you kind of paint such a rich history of the franchise I kind of wanted to ask like you're riffing on like Army of Darkness in that opening you're riffing on Jason takes Manhattan which is a personal favorite of my um was was there any and the arcade machine i was just obsessed with um was there any that didn't make the cut because it's so rich in terms of what you're pulling from and all these like

56:29Jane Schoenbrun:bits of memorabilia no i think i got most of the jokes in there that i that i wanted to um i perhaps there were some pieces of memorabilia that just from like a budget perspective we couldn't create there's i'll tell you about one joke that we that that we couldn't get to work that I thought was a really funny joke was the first reboot, like a big part of that opening credit sequence for me and the joy of it, right, is like speaking the language fluently of just like tired old IP because that becomes almost like a genre unto itself that like if we zoom out and look at as like uh oh yeah they they made all those sequels they went to space they got worse and worse then they rebooted it then they rebooted it again now they're doing like a prequel tv series it's like there's a logic to it and like you can track these trends not just in horror films but in a lot of our like endlessly recycled remade and regurgitated um pieces of intellectual property that i think like tells a fun story that is the story of like capitalism in some ways uh i uh yeah like that the storytelling and the reason it works it's not just like look at all of these different um you know these these these these pieces of memorabilia that you remember there's something of like the decades passing in that sequence that i think is really a pleasure so yeah there was this one moment that we were gonna do and we shot it but it just like it didn't work it was like the rhythm is so important uh and and the and it just cut off the rhythm too much but like we were going to do this joke where you see the fake trailer for the first reboot oh okay okay like uh like you kind of you think the opening credits are over after he like goes to space and he's like washed up and then we were going to have this like voiceover that was like 30 years ago Like he emerged from the bottom of the lake and like, and kind of do this like fake out where it really feels like, Oh, now it's like a good, you know, it's like, now it's like prestige again.

58:42Jane Schoenbrun:Now we're like getting serious. And then the camera was going to slowly pull out and you were going to see a computer. It was like, like the trailer was playing on a TV screen and screen and you were still in the museum and there was a computer next to it with rotten tomatoes pulled up. and it was like then we were going to like rack focus to the computer screen and it was just going to be like critics for four percent you know like um because there was this funny bit you know it's kind of like the platinum dunes era of like um elevated horror remakes when it was like michael bay was like producing all of these like serious humorless gnarly uh reboots of classic slash your your nightmare on elm street reboot essentially or friday the 13th the texas chainsaw or like house of wax like that era of movie that like at the time because it was the first time they had been like well fuck all the other movies like we've driven these properties into the ground let's like go back to the beginning um and i like there's some humor i think it's it's like what scream didn't get to comment on in 1996 right is that it's like let's like re reclaim the like vitality of these franchises and it's like no those sucked and then they tried it again and those sucked and then they tried it again and those kind of sucked too um yeah now you're talking about like late stage capitalism i also wanted to uh quickly talk about the film in terms of like your journey as a filmmaker um because we've we've like world's fair and tv glow uh being made at a point where you were like uh like during transitioning and those films kind of especially tv glow explores this idea of dysphoria and i think one of the things that surprised me about this film and really moved me was this is such like a euphoric celebratory film like what was the intention of making something so joyful at this point in your life?

1:00:43Jane Schoenbrun:Yeah, I mean, it's not something I'm always going to do. In fact, I think like the next challenge for me is to like, treat transition as a little less of a muse for me. Because it's just like, I'm, I'm six years in at this point. Obviously, my perspective on the world and my life is like completely colored by being trans, but like, I'm not going through the same kind of like adolescence, or like literal, like transition from one reality to another that I was five years ago. It's like part of who I am, but it's not like the thing that my life is about at the moment, which is nice. You know, like I, I'm happy about that.

1:01:31Jane Schoenbrun:It feels like, yeah, people talk about transition as they call it second puberty in many ways. It felt like first puberty for me because like I needed a do over. Um, and, uh, and I do feel like I'm through, you know, I think transition and change is obviously like that, that, that's that lasts one's whole life. Um, whether or not you're trans, you're, you're constantly changing and growing, but, but yeah, the discrete sort of like learn, like the learning of, of the things that I needed to learn about myself as a trans person, which I think in many ways are the things that everyone else learns about themselves as cis people like a lot earlier.

1:02:14Jane Schoenbrun:Like I kind of speed ran that and, and feel a bit through it. But for these first three movies yeah, like transition, my personal gender transition was in many ways, the muse. And the reason the filmography starts there is that like, before looking at that part of myself, I just like, I, I couldn't, make art. I, you know, I, um, I was hiding. Um, and so those two things have also been deeply intertwined, right. My like coming into myself as an artist and my coming into myself as a, as a person, uh, have, have, have met each other. Um, for world's fair, that was a process of like, literally just understanding it.

1:03:00Jane Schoenbrun:I was working on that movie for like the half decade that it took me to like come out to myself. And by the end of that process of writing that script, I was like, oh, I thought there wasn't a word for what this movie was about, but there is, and it's dysphoria. TV Glow, which I wrote the script for two months into my actual physical gender transition, when I was still dealing with like all of the fallout of coming out at 32, you know, and going from being straight married, corporate job working man to something very, very different. That movie is about the emotional atomic bomb that sets off and knowing that that's coming and that being part of repression.

1:03:50Jane Schoenbrun:So neither movie is actually so much about transition itself. They're about getting to the point of transition. um whereas miasma it's like i i sort of describe like early transition sometimes as um it's like getting on ssris where it's like you have all of the bad side effects for the first couple months and then it starts to feel good uh this is a movie about the like starting to feel good um and the starting to feel good is complicated because you're you're like not just understanding intellectually but you're really feeling a thing that has been ephemerally broken for your whole essentially life um starting to feel a little less broken and you're coming into yourself but you're also coming into yourself with like a lot of accumulated trauma um and a lot of like self-consciousness especially about being in your own body um and feeling comfortable opening parts of yourself up that have been completely closed down.

1:04:57Jane Schoenbrun:And so that's really what this, this one is about is, is like that process and specifically that process as it relates to sex and sexuality, which was scary and tender and joyful and, and fun and, you know, and, and sticky. And, and so the movie had to be too. I just wanted to quickly touch on what you're up to next, which is an adaptation of Charles Burns' Black Hole. And this is your first time adapting something. Is that something you feel like you have to stay close to the source material, or is it kind of an opportunity to have your own spin on that graphic novel? Definitely the latter. I am not going to be very faithful to the plot or even characters, you know like the the literal like um the the literal things that happen in that graphic novel black hole for me and i i it's my favorite book um i read it as a teenager and it like captured this thing that like i always wanted my own work to capture because it just felt so close to me this like mix of like teenage feelings and uh grotesque imagery um romance and horror you know um and the way that like alienation can feel romantic or comforting when you're a young person and um and then the ways that like society wants to kind of like ground that down um Um, and, and so I'm staying very true to that.

1:06:39Jane Schoenbrun:Uh, and I'm staying very true to that as this like lineage that that book, I think kind of invented, like, I feel like there are so many filmmakers and films that have been influenced by black hole over the years that, um, are, are also among my, it's like, it's, it, there's almost like a body of work, um, that, that I don't view, I don't view this as like the first time black hole has been in the world. It's like, it follows is black hole in my opinion. And, and yeah, I don't know. I, I kind of like gave myself the gift when I pitched on it because especially it's a TV show. So it needs to change to, to sort of use it as a jumping off point to like my own obsessions and, and my own world and story.

1:07:28Jane Schoenbrun:And yeah, it'll be very, very different from the book while still having these like flickers of the book if anything it's like in the process of developing it so far whenever i feel like a little lost i'll take out the book and reread it and just like sometimes just like stare at the images for a morning because it's like it becomes this this north star aesthetically and and and emotionally for me more than it's like oh and i need this to be like the story and how it plays out thank you so much take care take care all right that was jane schoenbrunn and i think it's time for reviews and I feel like that's the only place to start.

1:08:05Let's talk about teenage sex and death at Camp Miasma. Jamie. I absolutely adored this film, like one of my top three of the year. Very much made for me. I mean, I grew up, I loved slasher movies as a teenager, still love slasher movies and it's very much set in that 80s slasher world. But this filmmaker is a kind of queer indie filmmaker who's looking to reboot the Camp Miasma series from the 1980s, but wants to do it very much through a modern lens, kind of investigating psychosexual politics and things like that, and sort of the idea of seeing and being seen and blurring the boundaries between real life and movies.

1:08:47There's a lot going on in this film, sex and death kind of merging those as well. And she is obsessed with finding the original star, the final girl from the first Camp Miasma film to star in her reboot and actually tracks her down at the original camp miasma where the where obviously the first one was filmed so it's like going to the camp on friday the 13th and finding you know the final girl from there is still living there isolated completely on her own living in this world of trauma and memories this star is played by gillian anderson who's absolutely great in it as this kind of recluse this forlorn diva there's a bit of sunset boulevard going on in there as well, sort of drawn from the world.

1:09:30And so begins this conversation between them where Chris, the filmmaker, is trying to persuade her to come into this film. And it is basically very much a love letter to 80s slasher movies. Anyone who ever read Carol J. Clover's book, Men, Women and Chainstores, which was a major tome in 1992, and it opened up all the doors of sort of taking horror films seriously and introduced the whole idea of how the idea of a final girl in horror films makes young men identify with women in that position. Because before then, people were saying, oh, it's just tits and arse, and it's people being killed, and it's very voyeuristic and male and horrible.

1:10:12And this book sort of opened the idea that actually, no, it takes these viewers, which at the time was considered mainly men, and puts them in the shoes of a final girl fighting against a masked killer and sort of makes them identify. So it's really interesting. And this is almost like a filmic version of that, that it takes all of these ideas and puts them into this movie. But at the same time, it's so much fun. It could have been really dry. It could have been really academic. But it's full of like bursting gore, hosing blood. It's very, very funny. It's very personal as well with the whole sort of sexual politics.

1:10:49that obviously Jane Schoenbrunn is a non-binary trans filmmaker, puts a lot of themselves into this film. And it's just really, really interesting. It's just so many swirling ideas and so much fun. And I know that James hated it. I did. It is true. Now, for me, this was a little bit like reading an incredibly pretentious film studies paper, except with someone occasionally getting impaled up the bum with a big old spear. So, look, I have nothing against metatextual commentary. I actually rather enjoy it. But for me, what needs to happen is it needs to exist in parallel what I think is really compelling storytelling.

1:11:28And what I lacked, what I didn't get from this was a compelling story. I understood all the references. Well, I didn't understand all the references. You understood all the references, Jamie. I understood a percentage of the references. And I appreciated what was being done. But take something, and I know it's really first-base example. Take something like Scream, right? You take out all of the commentary there that Kevin Williamson was doing. You take out all of the meta stuff. What you've got is a great slasher movie. Like, it's really fun. It's got a great story. It's got like a twist. It's like, it's just fun.

1:11:55You could never have seen another film and you'll get everything you need out of Scream. I don't think that's true of this film. So I think if you take all that out, what you've got is something which for me was actually just quite boring. And I didn't really gel with it in that way because I didn't find it scary. I found it occasionally funny. Some of the gags are good. They tend to be quite, you know, in jokey cinema type of gags as a jump scare gag, which is quite accessible. I found that very funny. But I didn't find it hugely suspenseful. So I guess what I'm saying is this is a film that has and will get a slew of five-star reviews, not just from you, Jamie, from all sorts of people.

1:12:29The reviews have been glowing, but it is also a film aimed at film critics. And I feel like if you're the kind of person who sees a five-star review and says, right, I must see that, I would say watch the trailer, read the review, understand what it is, because it will not be for everyone. I think if you are someone for whom a running gag about split diopters has you howling in the aisles, this is definitely the film for you. If not, I'm just saying, know what you're getting before you go in. Maybe don't watch the trailer because the trailer is really misrepresentative of the film. Is it? So I've not watched the trailer.

1:13:01It tries to say it's more of a straight slasher film. I can only imagine what the marketing team thought when they first saw it. They were like, what the fuck are we going to do with this? It's also, as you said, it's quite gnarly. So it's not, as a horror film, it's not scary, but it is quite unpleasant. I think there are moments of scare. I was scared because I didn't know what it was going to do and I didn't trust where it was going to end up. And so I spent a lot of the film quite tense about what was going to happen next. There is an element, obviously, of kind of, you know, almost psychological warfare between the two women.

1:13:36You are very unsure of Gillian Anderson's ability, of her kind of motives and what she wants out of this when they meet. It seems pretty obvious pretty quickly that she doesn't just intend to easily sign up to this film. So why has she got this young woman here and what is she planning to do with her? I was genuinely quite unsettled by that. There's an element of almost kind of supernatural something or other going on. You're not quite sure what that is. and it sort of plays with your expectations and plays with your understanding of the genre in ways I find quite effective. I think it's really funny.

1:14:09I think you're underselling the funniness. I think you are. I think to be fair, me and comedy have a troubled relationship. But like the split diopter shot was like the least of it, but that was really good. It does get laughs out of knowing the genre, but it also gets laughs out of, you know, ridiculous meetings that this director is, that she's trying to get on Zoom calls with her team back in Hollywood and just the absolute disconnect between what she's going through and what they're talking about is hilarious. And you don't have to be an expert in film to get that. If you're a fan of like the studio, you know, you'll get some more jokes from those scenes, but you don't need that.

1:14:46So I just find it was really effective and I did not see where it was going and I did not expect it to end up where it ended up. And I thought that was a good thing. Helen just said something which I was going to say exactly right about the fact that it really sends up Hollywood as well. But a lot of what James has said is true. And if you're into your horror films and you know all the references, you'll maybe get more out of it. But anyone with even a passing kind of knowledge of film or cinema will get the fact that, you know, these Hollywood execs, what they want, which is a very lowest common denominator horror film, you know, with just lots of people being killed, it's very, very different to what this filmmaker, this art house indie filmmaker wants to make.

1:15:27and their conversations are hilarious, kind of dumb Hollywood, but at the same time, also sending out the filmmaker and people who over-intellectualise horror movies, like Carol J. Clover with Men, Women and Chainsaws. You know, as much as I'm on side of that and I love to talk shit about horror movies and get deep on horror movies, there are people, myself included, who maybe go too deep and will spend hours and hours discussing things that maybe weren't even intended and it doesn't lose sight of the fact that those people could be absolute twats as well. So I think it's very funny for that as well.

1:15:59You know, it's kind of playing both sides of the fence. I absolutely agree. We gave it five stars. We did. We did. I'll file that alongside Nirvana and things that I'm utterly upset about this year. You are so wrong. Okay, well, but it is a five-star film. That is a big recommendation. But maybe take James's views on board if you two have no comedy gene. I mean, what? Who said that? Oh, God. Anyway, next up, a little bit of a change of pace. Jason Statham has made his film again. He has! James, tell me about Mutiny. Bless him. That is a man who knows what his audience wants and he gives it to them.

1:16:34This is a film by Jean-Francois Richer and he did that mad Jerry Butler film Plane. Do you remember that? That we reviewed not as long ago? Plane is great. Right? Yeah. And he did the 2005 Assault on Precinct 13 remake as well. And he did Mezrin didn't he as well? Yeah. It was pretty good. Anyway, it is also the latest Stath thriller in which our craniumed crusader, he plays a guy called Cole Reed, and he's a former Met officer with a weirdly non-specific mid-Atlantic accent. I don't know quite what was going on there. It's occasionally Australian, but let's not dwell on that. So he now works as a bodyguard to this wealthy businessman.

1:17:08He's based in Thailand, and this is a guy who has come to see him as a part of the family. We know this because he buys him a watch at the beginning. And his friend and employer gets brutally assassinated on his watch, and old Cole, old Cole Reed, stows away aboard the cargo ship that one of the killers who killed him, he was posted on. So in order to try and find out what is what. Meanwhile, the reluctant third mate of that ship, played by Annabelle Wallace, is posted to the ship at the last minute, only to discover that her crew are not exactly on the up and up. So, you kind of know what you're getting with a state film.

1:17:45You know, you're getting, you're getting, you know, great action, you're getting fun set pieces, you know, RJ's essentially fucking shit up. therefore that's why you bought the ticket now there's also a subsection I would argue of state films that are genuinely elevated beyond the genre they outperform the source material and in many ways the script and they become an absolute hoot Guy Ritchie has directed a few of the recent ones of Old States the Magnificently Stupid Beekeeper I think falls into this category as well Crank 100 % it's like the gold standard of this stuff mutiny is not one such film so oh god where do i start right so let's start with the good it has pretty decent action i would say the choreography is pretty good the energetic uh direction i think gives it a real sort of sort of zhuzh to the to the fight sequence often in close quarters as well so that's pretty fun look the state can kind of punch someone in the face like very few other people he does it very very well um the story is utter drivel um yeah i mean i look i had a better time, I think, with this film than you did.

1:18:49You did, but then they did give you canapes because you went to the premiere. And the state was in the row in front of me. And he sat for the whole film. Sat for the whole film. Just saying, not everybody does all the time. That's a vote of confidence on his part. But I am saying, what was interesting to me is that there are decisions that make no sense. So he finds this, you know, as you say, this sort of lading card for this guy. Oh, this guy's going to get on a cargo ship tonight after killing my boss. A guy who is also bald. Yeah, but then he suddenly decides to take the guy's idea and board the cargo ship.

1:19:23What's the thought process, Jace? Why do you think that will solve the mystery of whodunit? What possible reason is there to take this man's place on a ship? How is that going to... That could just be his escape route. You don't know there's anything wrong with the ship. But then equally, while pretending to be the other bald man, he wears a hat. And you're like, dude, the only thing you have in common with this guy is you're both bald. Take that. Anyway, that's a relatively minor point. But look, the story, as we say, is drivel. It's kind of obvious where this is going from the beginning. The dialogue is horrific.

1:19:56And look, that's not always a problem. And I think Arnie dealt with some, actually, to be fair, some really great scripts from Steve D'Souza. But the thing that Arnie had is he had a twinkle in his eye, and The Rock does this as well, which elevates the material because he knows it's stupid. And respect where it's due, Jace often knows that as well. you look at Crank you look at Spy the man is genuinely very funny when he wants to be this is acutely humorless it is the most po-faced film and so the dialogue that he's having to twist himself through it just thuds down like an anchor and it's absolutely hideous so you know it needed a little beekeeper lunacy to it it needed some of that fun some of that kind of like crazy stuff and I think and you don't get any of that in there and then there's the other thing why the fuck is it called Mutiny he's not even a member of the crew No, like call it The Stowaway.

1:20:47Call it Death at Sea. I don't know, but... Anyway, that's a relatively minor bugbear, but it kind of bothered me. Look, this is not a film, I think, that warranted a theatrical release, and yet here we are. Wow. Femi? I think The Stave makes two kinds of movies. He makes the slightly serious, sombre ones like Hummingbird, Wrath of Man, Safe, and this one, Mutiny. And then he makes the ones we mentioned like Crank and like Spy. But Wrath of Man is good. Yeah, Wrath of Man's better than this. and he makes the ones where they're very sort of tongue-in-cheek. This is certainly the former one where it's a safe being serious.

1:21:21You know, it's shot very sort of bleak. It looks really miserable, leeched of all colour, you know, kind of breeze-blocked grey visuals. Like you said, the fight scenes, which are actually quite good, are very short and sharp and real, just sort of violent and punchy, but they're not big choreographed fun fight scenes. And there's not many of them. There's not enough of them. but for me where this movie really really falls down is it's trying to be very serious it's trying to be somber but like the plot the whole conspiracy plot is not interesting it doesn't grab your attention you don't really give a shit you know what the outcome is if you don't spot whodunit in the first 10 minutes no there's something wrong then you're on your phone yeah honestly you must be you know exactly whodunit and who was working with who you I mean from scene one you know that per Ramon Tikarab's character his boss T.B.U.

1:22:10He could not be more doomed. He is more doomed than Dead Meat Thompson in Hot Shots. I have never met a more doomed character, God bless him. But, you know, I still had fun. It's so stupid, but I had fun. Roland Muller as the ship captain was very evil. I enjoyed that. Annabelle Wallace was utterly unconvincing. I mean, she is radiantly beautiful and we're meant to buy her as this hardened sailor. I'll be honest, I struggled a little bit. No disrespect to beautiful women who work on cargo ships. I'm sure there are many, many of you out there. But I didn't 100 % buy that as a character for her.

1:22:48It's interesting that you mentioned Plane at the start, which is the same writer and the same director, because apparently, and I don't think this has been 100 % confirmed, but almost definitely this started off as a sequel to Plane. What was Boat? Yeah, it was originally called Ship. Oh, right, okay, fair enough. That is amazing. But then I feel like plane has a playfulness to it. Yes, and this doesn't. And this really doesn't. No, it doesn't. And it should do. I think Adrian Lester's got a little sense of playfulness. Yeah, he's got a twinkle in his eye. He's got a twinkle. I just saw him on stage last week, so I'm very much in a pro-Adrian Lester mood.

1:23:21If you haven't seen Cyrano de Roserac, his Cyrano is incredible. But he plays this, you know, sort of naval captain that they're trying to get in touch with and who's sort of getting suspicious about the boat. And he, I liked him. He had a little bit of a... In the three scenes that he has, Anyway, we give it two stars. So I'm a little bit higher. I would probably go three because I just had a nice time. But I accept the verdict. I would give it two and I did give it two because I wrote the review in Empire. But I would say if you want to watch someone creeping around on a ship and beating the shit out of people every now and then then go to Under Siege.

1:23:57Oh, no, no. 34 years ago. It did it 34 years ago and so much better. I don't think we can... No, I watched it again a couple of years ago. I like Under Siege. I cannot sign off on that. Die Hard on a boat. It is. Under Siege is great. And nothing but love for Tommy Lee Jones. But no, I cannot put Steven Seagal over Jason Statham. I'm not making great claims for Under Siege. I'm not saying it's Die Hard. I'm not saying it's First Blood. I'm not saying it's Terminator. But it is a damn solid outland movie. It's a genuinely very good film. And it's Steven Seagal's best by a country mile. I mean, wow, that's grading the curve.

1:24:35Anywho, two stars then for Mutiny. We should also talk, now, Insidious out of the further, as we record, has not screened for critics. I apologise to all of you Insidious fans who are waiting on that one with bated breath. You will have to check back on the website later in the week. But we have seen And Sons. So what can you guys tell me about And Sons? Jamie? Well, Anne's Sons is about a sort of really grouchy, washed up alcoholic writer. He's a kind of literary god called Andrew Dyer, sorry, who is played by Bill Nighy. And he's one of those writers where he's put his whole life, his whole soul into it, which means that his family is very fractured and very resentful.

1:25:19his son's never got any of his time and he had an affair and his youngest son is the result of that affair so that splits up the whole family his wife played by a melt us amelda staughton left him said enough's enough and he's basically drinking himself to death on his own and the idea of this film is that he brings back his family brings back his sons by saying i'm dying i want to kind and make amends i want to talk to you so one son is called jamie played by george mckay who's a documentary filmmaker the other son is richard played by johnny flynn who is a screenwriter and they both come back into the house full of resentment full of anger and sort of have it out with their father so there's a lot of kind of uh really going at it locking horns deep meaningful grouchy talk there's a little bit of humor as well when amelda staunton comes into it whenever she's in her room with Bill Nighy, you know, two great actors, there's real spots, you know, there's real kind of oomph, depth to the drama.

1:26:25But unfortunately, and I can't say more because I don't want to give away a major twist to the film, but there's a twist in the middle. They're all ghosts. It's not that far, but it's almost as ridiculous as that actually, almost. But there is a twist which is kind of hard to take seriously that puts a whole new light on the film and it makes it slightly silly given how serious it all is as well. I would say the director is a guy called Pablo Trepero who's Argentinian and if you want to see him make a crime, sorry, a film about a dysfunctional family, he made a movie in 2015 called The Clan which is a true life story about a dysfunctional crime family who in the 80s kidnapped people and killed people and that film is absolutely terrific.

1:27:11So go and see that. don't go and see Ann Sons, which I'm very, very lukewarm about. Yeah, we gave it two stars, I'm afraid, which is a shame because, like, you know, as you say, great people involved. Sarah Polly wrote the script. I mean, we expected more, but two stars for Ann Sons, which brings me at last to stop that train. Which we should say, you banned me from watching. I respectfully suggested that it might not be your cup of tea. And that it didn't deserve whatever it is, I would say about it. It didn't deserve the kicking that you would give it, is my view. Fair. So Stop That Train is a kind of, it's a quasi-airplane, but obviously set on a train, die hard on a train, or more, you know, airplane on a train.

1:27:56Underseas 2, die hard on a train. No, anyway, this is Adam Shankman directing. Dark Territory. And it's very much a sort of RuPaul production. So the idea in this film is that there are many, that the US has a rich train culture. Okay, so that's the first joke. The U.S. has a rich train culture and that there is a super luxury train that is going back and forth across the U.S. And all seems to be well with this train, the Glamazonian Express, until a major storm threatens it. And the result of several lightning strikes means that it becomes a runaway train. The Stormaganza has created this horrendous situation.

1:28:38situation. So all those aboard the train who include two new stewardesses, Tess and Didi, who have just been, find themselves out of a job when Stank Rail collapsed. They're played by Tess as Ginger Minj and Didi is played by Jujubee, both drag race stars for those of you who are not familiar with their oeuvre. And they basically have to save the train, which involves much chaos. helping or, let's be honest, sometimes hindering them from doing this is RuPaul as President Judy Gagwell. And you also have just an incredible supporting cast. Rachel Bloom plays a sort of person back in the weather centre who's trying to guide them through the storm.

1:29:20How you can guide somebody on a train is a fascinating question. There's also silly people like Missy Pyle is in it. Chris Parnell is in it. Sarah Michelle Bloody Geller is in it. It has an incredible sort of deep cast of just like supporting cameos and little tiny appearances. Lisa Reena, Jerry O 'Connell, Ricky Lindholm all turn up for like a scene at most. I had a really good time. The hit rate is not airplane levels of hit rate. You know, this is not a film where all 273 gags in its 89 minutes are bangers. They have not shot this around college campuses all over the country and cut out anything that didn't work.

1:30:03But it is only 90 minutes, and it does have a high enough rate of comedy, I thought, or rate of jokes, that even though the hit rate was probably only about 50 % for me, that was still a regular supply of jokes, you know? So I find this really fun. I think James would hate it. I think that's fair. And I think you do have to have a sort of tolerance for that kind of drag race humor, which sometimes is hit and miss for me. Like there are some episodes of drag race which are absolutely sublime, and other times I'm just like, oh, boring. So it is going to be a little bit hit and miss. I don't think everything is like finely crafted and honed to perfection.

1:30:45But I thought Ginger Minj and Jujubee were genuinely great as besties. I loved them. I absolutely was hugely invested in the success of their friendship and that they would succeed aboard the Glamazonian Express and displace those mean girl stewardesses who were trying to send them back to stank rail. Jesus Christ. I was just, you know what? I just had fun with it. So we've given it three stars. So ha-ha, the Empire Review agrees with me and not you, James. Yeah, well, I know how I feel about the Empire Reviews this week. I can feel you thinking it's a two-star from there. I really can. A two-star?

1:31:19One star for James. Yeah, probably. I suspect I'd want to burn every copy of this film. I agree with you, Helen. It's three stars for me. It's fun, right? I think you've nailed it. It's loads and loads of gags. It's non-stop sight gags. It's slapstick. It's one-liners. It's very much kind of airplane with drag queens is like to be reductive, but that's what it is. And like you said, a lot of it doesn't work. Probably 50 % does, but that 50 % is enough. You're sort of constantly chortling. It looks very cheap and it looks very plastic in places, So that kind of adds to it, to the whole trash aesthetic of it.

1:31:54And I thought Chris Parnell as the captain was wonderful. He's very much doing a Leslie Nielsen straight man. And he's incapacitated by a scorpion, so he can no longer drive a train and the brakes fail and all of this. And there's a running gag, which I really liked, that people keep wanting to know what the problem is. And they sort of say, tell it to me straight. And the person sort of says what the problem is. And they go, right, great. Now tell it to me gay. and then they obviously put on a camp voice to say it again. And stuff like that is very, very silly, but it is in places very funny.

1:32:26There's a Rachel Bloom variation on that gag, which is sublime, absolutely sublime. And Sarah Michelle Gellar as well, playing a washed up actress who's kind of hopes people recognise her, but her time has gone. It's very, very game of her to do that. Absolutely. Yeah, God bless her. So yes, three stars for Stop That Train. And that is it for this week's Empire podcast. Join us next week for more film-related fun when we'll be joined by, I think, Dave Green, the director of the fabulous Coyote vs. Acme, but it might be Willem Dafoe. I'm not sure. Chris is going to make a call, but he's on holiday.

1:33:02So tune in next week to find out suspense. Until then, until that auspicious occasion, until we meet again, it's goodbye from Jamie. Goodbye, everybody. Goodbye from James. Goodbye. Please listen to the Pilot TV podcast, not least of all because I have Carl Chandler and Aaron Pierre on the podcast on Monday for Lanterns which you haven't seen it is fantastic and is streaming now on HBO Max I'm not being paid for that plug okay well thank you for clarifying and it is also goodbye from me I'm off to try to cancel my web subscription for the web address mystiqueisnotanxman.com which apparently is no longer necessary and thank goodness until then we'll see you again bye bye

1:33:46I love you.