Our Favourite Curry (ft. guests Jodie Comer & Michael Sarnoski)

16:48Chris Hewitt:So you have like Eileen Brennan and Madeline Kahn and Christopher Lloyd and Michael McKeon and incredibly, Tim Curry just dominates them all. It's a film that famously had three endings and when it was shown on TV, which is where I first saw it, it had all three endings together and Tim Curry just takes the film by the scruff of the neck in those endings because as the butler, he delivers this incredible monologue wrapping everything up and he's running from room to room and people are running after him and he's delivering this dialogue at 100 miles an hour and it's still legible. It still sinks in and he's funny and he's likable.

17:29Chris Hewitt:And I was like, who's this dude? I like this dude. And then from there I discovered things at Rocky Horror Picture Show. Legend in which we don't even get to see him. Jimbo, I don't know what your favorite Tim Curry moment film is. Legend was an earlier I saw Legend in the cinema.

17:43Alex Godfrey:I didn't come to Rocky Horror until later in life when there was a period I don't know if you guys had this at university where people would go and see it on stage while dressed as Frank-N-Furter. So you get lots of people in kind of bustiers and like stockings obviously I looked very fetching in my high heels but no for me initially I guess he was Rooster in Annie which I think you can all agree is the greatest screen musical but no I loved I genuinely loved Annie growing up but yeah he was great in that but you know take that Frank and Furter and also as you know I love video games you remember the Command and Conquer games when they had those FMV the full motion video things and he was the Russian premier in Red Alert 3 which is mad but no for me Pennywise for me is his greatest role that that show and that character scared me so profoundly, so viscerally.

18:30Alex Godfrey:There are few things that have disturbed me as much as that miniseries, which is mad when you watch it now, because you watch it now isn't scary at all. But when you're young and during that period, there's just something so inherently creepy that you didn't need the gore, because there isn't a lot of gore. You didn't need huge prosthetics. You didn't need any of the stuff that you get in the remake of it, because it's really gnarly. That whole miniseries is hinged on his unnerving performance. and he's, bearing it on, he's wearing like baggy pantaloons with kind of crazy hair, but there is a menace to his almost like innocuous demeanour, you know, when he's like, would you like a balloon?

19:05Alex Godfrey:It is properly chilling. He is masterful. I interviewed him about 10 years ago for another publication about it. And we spoke, you know, for 20 minutes or so about Pennywise and he told me this story about how, and he did the voice for me.

19:26Chris Hewitt:Oh. Yeah. He said I was doing this scene with the little boy and Tim Curry said to me down the line and he did, down here we float or whatever it is. And that was a terrible impression. It was pretty bad. And the boy who was playing the boy said, yeah, he said, stop it, you're scaring me. Oh, pet. And Tim Curry says, I'm sorry, I'm supposed to be.

19:54Alex Godfrey:Well, do you know, because Bill's gone, because Skarsgård, you start asking him if they were okay after every take, because he didn't want to freak them out.

19:59Chris Hewitt:Perhaps that's why. Okay, Bill, you're Pennywise, for the love of God. Scare the shit out of them. It's your job. He was genuinely unnerving on that set, apparently. I never interviewed him. If I had, I would have asked him to recreate the last 30 minutes of Clue. Just like running from room to room. That's the film, Hells Bells. Flames, flames in the side of my face. I know, I know, yeah. I saw it later, though. That's why it's not one of my formative Tim Curry experiences. But it is an incredible performance. So if you had to go for a curry, you would go for? I mean, I'd go for the Hunt for Red October, which is my answer to most things.

20:32Oh, my God. Dr. Petrov. He's in the Hunt for Red October. Dr. Petrov.

20:36Chris Hewitt:Oh, my God. Yes. Yes. Oh, what a man. He's very sweet and naive in that. He is. He's so lovely. Oh, bless him.

20:45Alex Godfrey:Helen is right, though. You think he's been in loads of stuff, and he has been in loads of stuff, but he's not been in loads of big things. He just made a big impact in the things that we... National Lampoon's Loaded Weapon won. But this also speaks to what you were saying before, Chris, because he has done a lot of stuff and a lot of it was not very good because, like you say, Hollywood, I think, Hollywood just didn't really know what to do with him. Yeah. Because he wasn't an obvious archetype for anything. Yeah. Can I say as well, I love that he's one of the people who is on record as having an affair with Miss Piggy.

21:17he has talked on the record about it as has of course uh sir roger moore talked about it in his autobiography um i think charles groden went on the record as well i want her tell all i want her

21:29Chris Hewitt:autobiography i mean are these actually like consummated affairs that's the story he told what he said basically he she she basically got crossed at him because you know he admitted to having a girl in every port but he said you're the only pig but then he made the mistake of calling her a silly sausage

21:46Alex Godfrey:and that didn't go down well. What would her teller be called? Like making bacon? Honestly, I mean, I don't know about Kevin Bacon, but yeah, I think she could be up there with BD. I said this online, but I honestly believe it. I think she may have one of the all-time conquest walls, you know, in Hollywood. Yeah, Tim Curry porked her. Oh, oh no. Oh no.

22:10Chris Hewitt:Oh no. Too much? Too soon? Too soon. He'd probably be alright with it. Miss Piggy's not dead, so I think it's okay. But what happens if you are consummating the relationship with Miss Piggy? What does the puppeteer do? Do they just have her eyes? The puppeteer's already in there. Are they getting involved? What's happening? I want to know. That's further than I'd thought it through. Does she scream hiya at a key moment? I mean, who knows? It does, doesn't it? What? You opened the door, Helen. I'm sorry, this is... It was my mistake. How does it work? What are the ins and outs, so to speak, of a Muppet orgy?

22:50Chris Hewitt:If you know, then please do write in and tell us. Don't. A lot of this might be explored in Avenue Q. Do not write to me. I want no part of this. Just how does it work? I'm just fascinated by the whole thing. How does it work? How does sex work? Tell me. Shall we take a little break? Let's. And then come back in two seconds and dig deep into the movie news. Bye-bye. Okay, folks, we are back, back, back, and it is time now to dig deep into the movie news. There's not a lot of movie news around this week. We've waited until Thursday afternoon. There's not a lot of big movie news stories to get our teeth into.

23:31Chris Hewitt:But shall we start off? We talked about Tim Curry earlier on, and we also lost Peter Cullen. I'm sorry that Amon isn't here to talk about him because he is evangelical about the role that Peter Cullen played in the success of the Transformers films. But he really was the voice of Optimus Prime and embodied that voice to a point where even when they were trying to get big-name stars to voice the characters on film, nobody could imagine a better voice than his. So yeah, but what's amazing and what I hadn't realized until I read a whole bunch of obituaries about him is the extent of his other work.

24:08so you mentioned Predator we mentioned Eeyore in the Winnie the Pooh cartoons he did Monterey Jack in Chippendale and was the first voice of the car in Knight Rider come on

24:20Chris Hewitt:was he the first voice of the car?

24:22Alex Godfrey:he's the voice of Kit

24:23Chris Hewitt:no no no

24:23Alex Godfrey:he was the original voice of Car oh Car I was going to say it doesn't sound like it Garth Knight's car yes the evil car who could forget Car with a moustache that's amazing with a moustache Car he also had an incredible moustache

24:35Chris Hewitt:the car had an incredible moustache it's red it went back and forth sure but also Peter Cullen he did have an incredible massage yeah actually I didn't know the thing about the predator yeah so he did the focalizations of the predator predator predator he could probably say predator without taking a run up at it I bet he could you bet he could he did all the clicking noises yeah click click click click

24:56Alex Godfrey:terrible I'm trying to audition click click click click click he went click click you sound like Tweaky from Buck Rogers bitty bitty bitty but yes the man had some some vocal stylings. He really did. He was so smooth. Autobots, roll out.

25:11Chris Hewitt:Did you ever interview him? Did anyone ever interview him? No, he was quite lucid as an interviewer. I think we tried and didn't manage to do it

25:17Alex Godfrey:a few years ago. I'm sure he was at Comic-Con one of the years we were there. Really? Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was there. I can't remember what for. I think it was Digger Panel. Then he transformed into a truck and drove away. Yes. And he was working all through the 80s which means that if you loved an 80s cartoon you probably heard him. He was in Rainbow Bright. He was in My Little Pony.

25:35Chris Hewitt:Who did he play My Little Pony? Has he ever been a Miss Piggy? Captain Crab Nasty. No, Chris, no. Come on, we've moved on. Duck Tales. He was several characters in Duck Tales. Wow. The real Ghostbusters. I mean... The real Ghostbusters?

25:49Alex Godfrey:Not the high Ghostbusters. The real one. You know, the cartoon. Which one did he voice? No, he wasn't one of the central ones. He played sort of supporting characters. Dr. Destructo, specifically, and also a police officer. Nominative determinism.

26:04Chris Hewitt:born to Jeff and Winifred Destructo a boy doctor he had no choice I'm just an ice cream salesman for God's sake you had to grow up and become a goddamn doctor of destruction yeah he was an amazing amazing amazing voice actor I didn't know yes the internet tells me he was the voice of King Kong in the 1976 King Kong uncredited yes he went clickety clickety clickety did King Kong have a lot of dialogue He did the Andy Serkis thing.

26:36He makes noises. Have you seen a gorilla? I mean, you know, when he's swiping the planes.

26:42Alex Godfrey:Is that how he sounded? Oh, put me back. That's the genius of Peter Cullen. This is why he was good at his cheek. This is why we'd be terrible at it. Where's Chris gone? Chris has fallen down.

26:55Chris Hewitt:I don't know what's happening. I think he's trying to climb a skyscraper. you know when I said obituaries can sometimes go off the rails a little bit I think that is we can oh thanks mom Jesus Christ but he was he was absolutely amazing and very very sad indeed 85 years old but listen you know Amon was he texted me after the news came out he was very very sad and I get it there have been obviously celebrity deaths over the last few years that have hit hard and there are celebrity deaths yet to come don't even start that are going to hit hard of course but in moments like this I think you focus on the work.

27:30Chris Hewitt:You focus on the things they gave us. You focus on the joy that they brought to millions. And in Peter Cullen's case, that incredible voice saying, Autobots, roll out, and other things, brought joy. And he would be very sorely missed.

27:45Alex Godfrey:Yeah, there are a few people who could say, Energon cubes.

27:48Chris Hewitt:And sell it.

27:50Alex Godfrey:Energon cube.

27:51Chris Hewitt:You could say, oh, amazing. Oh, that was good, actually. Every time one of us tries to do his voice, you realize why he was so good. my Optimus is pretty good I'll try it again Optimus alright yeah you're right Alex he was a one off the great Peter Cullen who passed away last week is there anything else that happened in the world of movie news anything else you would like to talk about in a respectful fashion oh then no alright let's move on then we got some exciting question mark trailers this week did we Fokker-in-law has a new trailer with extra bits of cringe. It really does because... I haven't seen it.

28:31So this just dropped literally this afternoon and as we record this and has Ben Stiller, Ben Stiller's Greg, singing, serenading really Robert De Niro with all of me. And I think he means it as a genuine sort of tribute, but it's not a non-romantic love song, you know? It doesn't work.

28:53Chris Hewitt:Oh my God. And that instantly makes his father not very uncomfortable. And then, you know, we get the usual setup for the actual movie, which is that he now repeats the mistakes of the past and turns against his child's intended, played by Ariana Grande, and goes to increasingly demented lengths to break up their marriage. Oh my God, it's like he's not seen Meet the Parents. It's like that, yes.

29:20Alex Godfrey:This is the, count them, fourth film in this series. Yeah, yeah. Four. They are massive at the old box office. I think this one, if anything, will be massiver because of her. I think she will be a big, big draw to people. First film's great. Really is good.

29:37Chris Hewitt:What was the third one called? Little Fockers? Little Fockers, yeah. I didn't see that one, I'll be honest with you. Meet the parents, meet the Fockers. Little Fockers are now Focker-in-law. And is the whole gang in this one? Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know if they... Streisand, Hoffman? I don't know if they... if they're in it, actually. Owen Wilson? The fuckers. Wow. Owen Wilson is definitely there. Oh, is he in the trailer? He's in the trailer, yeah. Wow. That's amazing. So, yeah. That's happening. It's happening. Did the trailer look good? Yeah. It sounds like you want to move on very quickly.

30:05It looks like a fuckers movie.

30:06Chris Hewitt:It looks like a film. You know, it's going to be fine. All right. And then we also got the trailer for Ink. Yes. The new Danny Boyle film.

30:13Alex Godfrey:Oh, love it. Love a bit of Danny Boyle. Have you seen the play? I feel like you've seen the play. You know, I missed this one and I was really annoyed because it got incredible reviews. So this is the story of Rupert Murdoch, who's going to be played here by Guy Pearce, basically taking over and rejigging the Sun newspaper with the help of Larry Lamb, the editor who will be played by Jack O 'Connell with help from Claire Foy and other people are in the movie too. I think it's going to be a very good movie. They all look like they're giving incredible performances. The reviews out of Venice, where it premiered I think last night as we record are really, really positive.

30:50My problem is going to be how do I get past the searing anger that I feel at all of these people to assess it as a movie in itself, you know? And when I say all these people, I don't mean the actors or Danny Boyle. I mean the characters that these people are playing. Can I... Why, what's Rupert Murdoch ever done? I can't imagine that won't be addressed in the film. I'm sure it will. I'm not saying that Danny Boyle would never make something going with Murdoch rocks. But just the idea of watching Rupert Murdoch and these people for...

31:22Chris Hewitt:Humanizing him. I doubt it will. I think this might be more along the lines of The Apprentice, right? But then I think that did humanize him too much. Do you think it humanized Roy Kahn? Yes, I do think it did. It didn't paint either of them in a good light, though, I would say. I think it but it showed you Trump had a vulnerable moment in his life and Roy Cohn had a vulnerable moment in his life and therefore does somewhat humanize them I think more than either of those people who are galactically terrible people deserve and I worry about the same here having said that in Danny Boyle we trust because he is definitely not a son

32:00Alex Godfrey:and James Graham knows his business yes yeah he wrote the play alright but anyway it looks but it looks like a great piece of drama this is a me problem that I have to get past

32:10Chris Hewitt:yes Yes, and Jack O 'Connell, there was a rumor this week that the Bond shortlist is down to three. And Jack O 'Connell's name is atop of it. Now, nothing official has been announced just yet. But how would you feel if Jack O 'Connell, Lord Jimmy, Lord Jimmy, Lord Sir Jimmy Crystal, Lord Sir Jimmy Crystal, Sergeant Lieutenant Frank Drebin, Lord Sir Jimmy Crystal himself were to be Jimbo Bond? I think he's just too inherently roguish. I think Jack O 'Connell is amazing at being wrong-uns. I'm not saying he doesn't have range. He has played people who are not wrong-uns. But I don't know. He's got big bad guy energy to me, Jack O 'Connell.

32:55Alex Godfrey:I think every actor who has played James Bond has brought a distinct energy to that role. And they've all been the kind of people where, when they were cast, people were like, that's not Bond because it's so, like Connery and Roger Moore are poles apart.

33:11Chris Hewitt:I remember it well when Roger Moore was cast and I didn't exist at that point. I was furious. I'm sure you were. I popped into existence for a second and went, he's not Bond. I feel like Pierce Brosnan just got praised. Everyone went. But he just felt

33:23Alex Godfrey:like the inherent sort of Bondiness was just baked into his DNA. But someone like Daniel Craig and you're like, really? But then by the time, he brought a very different sort of gruff, realist-born energy to it. And I feel like if you go like a Jack O 'Connell route yeah it's not the Bond that we know but actually it could be an interesting new generation of what that character is it'd be an interesting spin because I think he'd be the he has big not posh energy yes he does and it would be interesting to see him play posh which I don't think he's really done certainly not very much so that could be an interesting spin on it I've also heard Jack Loudon mentioned quite a lot recently

34:04Chris Hewitt:That is more of an obvious fit. It's more obvious, yeah. The three on the list, apparently, this is just a rumor, and it was from someone on Twitter, I don't know how reliable they are. The three on the list, apparently, that Denis Villeneuve and Prime, Amazon, and I presume Jeff Bezos in his underground lair, and other people have whittled down a long, long list. They've seen every eligible actor in England, and the three are Jack Loudon, Callum Turner, and Jack O 'Connell. And of those three, I think Loudon is the best fit. Weirdly, I interviewed this week Theo James. And I went into the room going, hey, it's Theo James.

34:48Chris Hewitt:I came out going, how is he not Bond? He's got big Bond energy.

34:52Alex Godfrey:What the fuck is going on? He does push so well in The Gentleman as well. He's very, very good. Although, again, my pick is Puppet S.E. I think he has the comedy chops, the action, everything. He's got magnetic screen persona. So, yeah, he would be my pick. I don't know. I mean, obviously, I don't have a dog in this fight, so it's fine. I can sit back and enjoy whatever madness occurs. This might be the one to change your mind. Sure. Yeah. If they cast, like, Timothy Olyphant or Jon Bernthal, maybe I'll start caring. Up until then, I'm fine.

35:23Chris Hewitt:Jon Bernthal. The Punisher as Bond. Just grunting as Bond. What's his English accent like? Doesn't care. It doesn't matter. He just grunts Englishly. The name's Erg. James Erg. Anyway, that's just a rumor. It may not happen, but we shall see. But I'll tell you one thing that isn't a rumor. Oh, my God. I'm so good at this. Is the news that Days of Thunder 2 is happening. It is coming. Finally. Summer of 2028. It makes sense. It will make money because it's trickled down economics. It's a funny joke. Okay. It's good. It seems a shame that the podcast ended before our live show. But you know what?

36:08Chris Hewitt:We've had a good run. And that's it. I'm shutting it down.

36:14Alex Godfrey:This project has failed.

36:17Chris Hewitt:It was properly officially announced this week in a video in which Thomas Cruise Maypother IV announced Days of Thunder 2 with his new co-star. Oh my God. Annie Hath. Annie Hath. It's Anne Hathaway. And she's pregnant, but she was like, I'm going to have this baby. They were going to make this movie. And it was very, it was so much fun. There was also a car. Yeah. There was a car. Does anyone remember that Days of Thunder isn't very good? Yes. Am I the only one? I do remember that. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. No, you are wrong.

36:50Alex Godfrey:This is my fear. Top Gun was great, and there was a lot of love for it. Top Gun Maverick makes sense. Days of Thunder, not great. Nobody loves it. That's true. why are we doing it again? I'll tell you why because Tom Cruise wants to do a racing film he just saw his mate Brad Pitt do a racing film which was apparently good and went down very well and made a lot of money and he's already got an existing got an Oscar nomination exactly just about and he's already got an existing property to do it with I just think he saw that and thought I'll have a bit of that I like racing cars hey I did one already I'll make another one

37:24Chris Hewitt:maybe we've missed something maybe you know because Days of Thunder did okay when it came out this is obviously the attempt by Jerry Bruckheimer and Don Simpson and Tony Scott, the director, and Tom Cruise, of course, to re-bottle the lightning that was Top Gun just four years earlier. And it didn't work that well. It's a decent film. It's an entertaining film. It's got good performances from the likes of Robert DeValle. It's got good racing scenes. It looks great because it's a Tony Scott film. But I don't think that, certainly for the people who were around when the movie came out, there isn't that love for it.

37:58Chris Hewitt:I went back and revisited it recently for the Robert DeValle ranking we did. And I was like, it's fine. It's okay. He's got an amazing, you're talking about great introductions, right, with Tim Curry. It's got an amazing introduction for Cole Trickle. Because, you know, as James was hinting at, that's the name of his character in this movie. Cole Trickle. He has this amazing introduction where he rides on the circuit on a motorbike with his hair flowing behind him in the wind. And it's so perfectly timed. Like, Robert DeValle and someone else are talking... maybe 500 yards away and goes, where's this new driver coming from?

38:32Chris Hewitt:And then he, as if he's been waiting for his cue, he just rides around the corner on his motorbike. But is it one of those movies that has been discovered by a younger generation? And maybe they love it. Maybe they're getting the numbers back and they're going, loads of people love Days of Thunder. I don't think it's doing the same thing that Maverick was doing, which was saying, we've been waiting a long time. We're doing a sequel to a beloved film and trading on nostalgia. Like I say, I just think he wants to do a racing film and this is an easy way to do it. it's not saying to everyone we all loved that film and you've been waiting a long time hang on you can't just eat a banana while I'm talking to you about Days of Thunder with a straight face it's disrespectful to Days of Thunder I can I was hoping you wouldn't bring it up I haven't eaten I haven't had lunch that was a comedy banana if I've ever seen one I just ate it like a normal banana not oh my goodness I'll put the banana away Put the banana down.

39:27It's five o 'clock I haven't eaten. All right, yes. I don't think this is trading on nostalgia in the same way that the other one. I mean, it's carrying it on, but it's going to be Tom Cruise in 2026 doing probably an amazing car racing film. I don't think it matters that much if people loved the first film. No one can remember it anyway. I think, I mean, it's not clear that they're calling it Days of Thunder 2. They may well be calling it Days of Thunder

39:54Chris Hewitt:in a Scream 6. They did announce it was called Days of Thunder. If you look at the logo on the car, the R is a 2. Is it? And the S is a dollar sign. I think they will probably change it or add something. There were rumors that this would be a crossover with F1. What? It would be a sneaky double sequel. That seems unnecessary. You had my curiosity, now you have my attention. Again, that doesn't change the dynamic for me. I didn't think F1 was all that. So it would be Cold Trickle versus Sonny Sonny And Cher And Cher No there I'm in There They've got me back on board They get to the finishing line They go I got you babe Oh my god And other Sonny and Cher songs I just want you to know That I did not have to look this up But the name is Sonny Hayes Sonny Hayes Sonny Hayes And they'd have to Take the finishing line At exactly the same time It's no Cold Trickle It's no Cold Trickle It's pretty similar To Cold Sonny Hayes Sunny Hayes.

40:55Alex Godfrey:Sunny Hayes sounds like a porn name. Cole Trickle sounds like an STD. Oh, my God.

41:00Chris Hewitt:Cole Trickle sounds like a porn name, too. Does it? Do you not think?

41:03Alex Godfrey:Not a very successful name.

41:04Chris Hewitt:It's like a porn soundtrack. Cole Trickle in Pork and Miss Piggy. I could see that film. No? You would see that film? No. I would totally see that film. That's true. Okay. So disrespectful to the office. All right, anything else? yes Ridley Scott promoting the Dog Stars has been talking again but with more intent this time about seriously doing a sequel to Alien Covenant exciting yay it is exciting it is because that film was weird quite good yeah had some good stuff in it but a fucking brilliant ending which made me want to see another one the further misadventures of Michael Fassman David David David David the naughty David switching places bad David fooling everybody he'll do the fingering I really James what?

41:59I really wanted to see what happened next I think I haven't I've only seen the headlines I think Ridley has been saying lukewarm at best things about alien Romulus in this round of press saying it was okay but what we really want is a confident sequel I don't think he recognises the canonicity of any alien film not made by him true I don't think he sort of believes in the alien queen. I don't think he has any particular dog in any of the non-Scott Ridley stories. So if he is making this, I feel like it will be pretty firmly connected to David.

42:38Chris Hewitt:Bring it on. And nothing else. That's a different franchise. It's a great cliffhanger. You know, that's see it resolved. I wasn't a big fan of Alien Covenant but yeah that ending is undeniable and you want to see more I was dying to see more I really hope he makes it so do I I want that to continue and Romulus wasn't very good I'd much rather see a sequel to Covenant again there's been talk that maybe Romulus and the Covenant sequel might intersect I hope not and then Sonny Hayes will come in and have a chestburster really was a producer on Romulus lest we forget

43:09Alex Godfrey:yeah I mean this is not an Alien Romulus podcast but I still don't understand how you take the very worst thing of Alien Resurrection and end your film with that. It's just like, did you not see the other one? Anyway. Yeah, anyway. You know, it's happening.

43:24Chris Hewitt:Quite liked it. I liked it. Yeah. Apart from those two lines. Oh. Oh, terrible. Get away from get away from her, you bitch, you bitch. That's all I'm going to say on that one. A crime in the cinema. Okay. Shall we have a guest in? Yes? Yes. Okay. So let's have guests, in fact, because this week sees the long-awaited release in the UK of the death of Robin Hood. Michael Sarnowski's latest film came out in the States about six weeks ago, something like that. And this is a deliberate downbeat retelling of the legend of Robin Hood. Robin Hood, as you've never seen him before, very much an older Robin Hood, a man who's committed many atrocities, the legends that you hear surrounding Robin Hood, that he was a cartoon fox, for example.

44:14Chris Hewitt:All wrong. He was a fox though, right? Because he's played with Hugh Jackman. Hey. And he is nearing the end of his life. I think it's fair to say. The film is literally called The Death of Robin Hood. And he finds himself severely wounded and on an island that is overseen by a prioress called Bridget who is played by Jodie Comer. And their relationship takes some very interesting turns, shall we say over the course of this film and Jodie Comer is terrific in this as is Hugh Jackman very well directed by Michael Sarnowski we'll talk about it in just a few minutes in the review section but I went along to a London hotel room and spoke to Jodie Comer and Michael Sarnowski this week and the film was shot in Northern Ireland which is why we start off talking about Northern Ireland where I had just been to top up my Northern Irish accent Brilliant and have some feet of bread Ach, amazing and Club Orange Oh, I'm jealous My sister actually lives near Tato Castle, so she does.

45:12Oh, you're kidding.

45:13Chris Hewitt:But I have never been on a tour. Wow. All you can eat crisps. Are you kidding? Probably. Just take Mr. Tato home with you. What would happen if Mr. Tato and Miss Piggy... Anyway, here is my interview with Jodie Comer and Michael Sarnowski. Do please enjoy. Michael, Jodie, welcome to the Emperor Podcast. How are you both? I'm really good, thank you. Good, good, good. I'm also really good. Excellent. I was concerned. Yeah, do I not look? It's like, look at you. You look terrible. You look very happy. First things first, before we get into the film, how was Northern Ireland? Amazing. Yeah? I mean, I was there for about probably seven weeks.

45:53Michael was there. For like a year. Like a little over 11 months. Yeah. I loved it. I had a great time. I mean, we prepped there for like four months, shot for 30 days, and then we edited it there in Hollywood, a little town just east of Belfast, which is crazy to like come across the world and be like making a movie in Hollywood. Yeah, absolutely. We did the best cinnamon bun. Oh, my God. Yeah. What is the name of that? Oh, honestly, I'm the worst. It's like a cinnamon scone bun.

46:21Chris Hewitt:I can't remember. It was right next door to me, and it was amazing. But yeah, I loved it. Did you indulge in any other kind of Northern Irish things that you can't get over here in England? Like Club Orange? Did you have any Club Orange? What's Club Orange? Club Orange is like an orange drink that kicks the shit out of any orange drink we have over here. No! I love orange. It's amazing. Do you remember Claire would make 11s? And they were the marshmallow with the digestive and the cherry. 15ths is what they call them. I don't call them 11s. Oh, God. They may change from place to place. I was just Guinness and James.

46:55That was sort of it for me. And seafood chowder. The seafood chowder there at the Dirty Duck. Did you ever go to the Dirty Duck? I don't think I did. The Dirty Duck in Hollywood, that kept me alive.

47:06Chris Hewitt:So you never have, for example, the delights. And believe me, we'll talk about the film in a second. I was back in Northern Ireland last week and I kind of plugged myself back in like the matrix to Downloaded a lot of Northern Irish stuff. Did you ever have feeder bread? Oh, is that it's like a mold mold. Yes, I did Yeah, I made the mistake though. I made a the like chips and the crisp sandwiches We do like a crisp and butter and then I made it on that kind of bread and someone's like no I don't think you're supposed to do was it quite done. Yeah, it was a sense Yeah, so I try dry. Northern Irish things that didn't quite go together.

47:39Chris Hewitt:Michael, it sounds honestly you lived there for a year. Guinness Jameson's and crisp sandwiches with fita bread. It's a wonder you're alive. Yeah. That's why I look so. That's why I ask. Are you OK? Are you are you OK? Have you gone to the doctor recently? This is not the death of Michael Sarnowski. This is we're not doing that. Let's talk about the film. I mean, Jodie, did did you get a sense, you know, again, kind of staying with Northern Ireland, you know, you make the place look at times horribly intimidating and bleak but also beautiful did you take any inspiration from that for Bridget I mean I was quite taken aback actually the first time that I seen a cut of the movie like you're saying that kind of the duality of it being so brutal yet visually stunning like that first 20-30 minutes I didn't think I took a breath um because I also wasn't kind of privy to that world you know bridget is in a resides in a very kind of different part of the movie also kind of i guess like a medieval day spa yeah exactly exactly um so it was obviously something i i read in the script and you can kind of picture but never in my wildest dreams was i you know was that kind of playing in my in my mind's eye be in the freezing mud too much no that's why everyone's like how is it in the nature i'm like it was fantastic and then i just pig showed you with his like face in the mud eating rocks it's like he's like well i disagree with that but i mean yeah it looks that that opening sequence of the movie it looks cold and horrible we shot in february march so it was it was cold yes that wasn't we weren't pretending i mean the the big muddy fight scene we wanted it to be like in the dirt and kind of muddy so we were gonna like spritz it down and then it started pouring rain when we shot that and it was like a freezing rain and the whole field just like flooded with like foot deep mud and i was like well we we got our mud i guess and that was just you rolling around in that mud oh my god um and uh jordi i spoke to michael yesterday for a spoiler special about the movie you could say the title is a spoiler but i'm not going to get into that but we were talking about how the legends of robin hood's death do sometimes predict uh depict rather the prioress, who's Bridget in this movie, as someone who betrays him, someone who may even be evil, for want of a better word.

50:06Chris Hewitt:That is not your character at all. Can you talk about crafting her, shaping her, finding your way into her and her humanity in a way, which is such a key part of the movie? Yeah. I mean, I have to be really honest and say that I didn't kind of look back and make any sort of comparison because when I read Michael's script, his interpretation felt absolute to me and like very clear and her humanity was what kind of astounded me um you know there's a kind of catalyst within the film where um she's confronted with a revelation she realizes that their um their pasts connect in some way you know he's a huge reason for the reason why she arrived at the Priory in the first place and the grace in which she was able to meet that moment, what I was really inspired by, but it also made a lot of sense to me in a sense of how she kind of references alchemy, you know, I felt like there was a, even though this moment causes her a lot of pain and I don't think was necessarily easy to exercise this kind of grace.

51:20I think she understands that it's kind of fundamental within this moment. And I love that because I wasn't sure how I would react in that situation. Do you know what I mean? I was like, wow, this is...

51:34Chris Hewitt:You've got to park yourself your own opinions. Yeah, of course, of course. And it felt, the magnitude of it, it just felt enormous. But again, like, I don't think it was easy, you know, for the prioress she wasn't kind of born a kind of holy woman these are teachings that she's taken on it's something that she's constantly practicing i think she finds inspiration in it i think it also provides a comfort um so there is a nuance in there it's not like this kind of easy um easy choice no for me i don't think yeah absolutely and michael you know in terms of what you wanted to do with the characters who are enshrined in mythology.

52:15Chris Hewitt:You had a little bit more leeway. I mean, you're doing a 180 with the kind of traditional view of Robin Hood in this movie. But you had a lot more leeway, I'd say, with the Prioress. Can you talk about creating that character almost out of whole cloth in a way? Yeah. I mean, I think she was kind of my in to the movie because I knew the death of Robin Hood legend and I was always fascinated by it. I was fascinated by the quiet of it, by the, oh, this is the end of this heroic legend. But the thing that always I wanted to explore more was, okay, this idea of spoilers of like a prioress quietly bloodletting someone to death in this bedchamber.

52:51Like what an intimate space that is. And what an odd act that is. Like what a quiet, gentle, intimate way of killing someone. But yeah, in the old stories, she was always kind of, yeah, the betraying kind of treacherous nun. And I was like, no, like there has to be more to that relationship between these two characters. And I wanted to understand that more. So really, my in was, okay, I need to understand the prioress more. And I did a lot of research on like Hildegard von Bingen, who was this German prioress from the 13th century that was this kind of polymath who was like a theologian and a composer and a healer.

53:25And it became really important to me that it was like, no, no, healing and helping people is this person's identity. Like she has sort of created this like matriarchal commune where like people can come who are cast off by society and she will help them. And like that seemed so much more interesting to me to be like like, oh, no, like she's not some evil lady who happens to be a nun and then kills goodly Robin. Like this is someone who like her identity is healing people. And that was really kind of my jumping off point. And then it became, OK, well, let's think about Robin. Like maybe he wasn't the goodly hero.

53:55Maybe he was this medieval bandit who led this life of violence. But really thinking about, okay, I want to believe in the prioress and what she's doing so that this act has more meaning and this space between them has more meaning was kind of my in to the soul of the movie.

54:10Chris Hewitt:I don't want to get into the last third of the movie, but as you said, there is bloodletting. That is part of what Bridget does to Hugh Jackman's Robin in this. And I am a horror hound. I'm a gore fiend. And I can watch people being axed in the face until the cows come home. But things like bloodletting in this movie. I genuinely have to look away Are you guys like that at all? What was it like being part of those things? Obviously, it's all fake you have unless you actually to give up his blood for this movie, which is entirely possible very committed I mean it was I remember when like because we made the practical Arm piece.

54:48I mean it looked real there was definitely a marriage. I was like this looks so real It's definitely because you would literally like poke the hole in the arm and then blood and there were moments Sometimes we would like do the pressure too much. And it was like, oh, yeah. And there were, I mean, there was always a moment when you did that on set where you could sort of feel the whole crew just go like, like, it was like. Because it was just like a skin, you know, there was like a piece of kind of skin and the tube was very kind of discreet. So he would just offer up his arm. You know what I mean?

55:15There was nothing kind of obscure in it in any way. It like looked very much real. Yeah. And then, of course, you're also wanting to get it right because then it's a blood reset. You're like, don't mess this up. But you're okay.

55:29Chris Hewitt:You can take this sort of stuff. You don't like, you don't have the gag reflex. Yeah, I'm not too bad. I mean, if I get my own blood taken, I do look away. But no, I'm - I do the finger pinch. I always look away and then pinch my fingers. Like I can't feel it. And it doesn't even hurt them. There's something about like a needle going into you though, which I think is the same with the bloodletting that like, it's not just like, it's, I'd rather someone just like cut me than like stick something into my arm. Like there's something very like parasitic about that. Or leeches. We'll bring back leeches is what I say.

56:00Yeah, we cut the leech scene. Everyone's too screaming for it. We haven't used leeches in years. It's a real shame. Leeches actually have some medical grounding. Bloodletting is a little iffy. I don't recommend it. Leeches can do something. I'm not saying. Go put leeches all the way around. I'm not a health professional.

56:18Chris Hewitt:Yes, we'll have to flash something up at the little disclaimer on the screen here. Let's talk about Robin Hood. who was your Robin Hood, both of you, as a teenager? Jodie, let's start with you. I mean, I have a loose reference to the Disney Fox. Okay. But, again, I wasn't, like... You didn't have really a Robin Hood. I didn't really have one. It was Shrek. Or a man in tights. It was, it was, steer from the ridge, go to the knee. Oh, yeah, that's better. That is, if I'm being honest, that. But that's not a full exploration. It's more of a cameo. If you weren't growing up with, say, Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves on the TV.

56:56No, but I definitely walked in the living room and my dad's been watching it for the 100th time. You know, on Channel 5. I feel like that's a solid Channel 5 film. It certainly is.

57:07Chris Hewitt:It is, yeah, yeah, yeah. With Cosmo's incredible accent. Yeah, because Hugh, unlike other Robin Hoods, talks with an English accent, to quote Kerry always. We went for like a Northern English accent. For kind of everyone, we sort of nudged it all Northern. and mine was Disney and Costner. That was like, I loved, I mean, the Fox was like, that was my favorite Disney movie growing up. And then Costner, I had like all the toys. They had like a treehouse set that you could get. They were toys? Yeah, yeah. Like Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves? Yeah. Are you kidding me? I had a bunch of them. They had like a treehouse set where like, it had a little like pulley and you could like, it had a little like tree elevator and you could like put the, like, I loved it.

57:46My mom got rid of him, I think, which bums me out. I would still play with them.

57:50Chris Hewitt:did you have like little action figures like a little christian slater action figure little morgan freeman action figure i don't know if i had like i think i had i think i had morgan freeman costner um i mean this was a long time ago but yeah i had i had quite a few of them are you disappointed there's not the death of robin hood action figure place there's still time come on nicely real bloodletting yeah i want to see the ad for that with kids just getting like sprayed by like mom it's really coming out of lockout yeah i love that i love the fact that your um your robin hood's growing up are as far removed from this movie as you could possibly get like the fan diagram of disney robin hood and kevin costum robin hood doesn't come close to you in this movie we did a crew screening of the disney robin hood though um in prep we did like these sort of weekly screenings where each department would like choose a movie and my first one was the disney robin hood and we watched it all together.

58:45That's such a cool thing to do. Yeah, it was really fun. It was cool. And then like Pat, which Pat chose like There Will Be Blood, David chose Come and See, like everyone sort of chose a thing that they wanted to express something. But I sort of just wanted to be like, hey, let's have fun with this. It was weird. We were watching the Disney one. It holds up. It's so good. It's so odd. It's such a lovely film. But then there's a moment where he's fighting with a torch and I was like, oh, I guess I stole the torch thing from Disney's Robin Hood.

59:11Chris Hewitt:Yeah, I don't remember the Disney Robin Hood show in a torso and someone's throat he didn't shove it into an eye yeah they they cut that part out yeah yeah that was that was cut at the end and Jody you're talking about the accents you know you have this incredible proclivity for accents you know can you talk about Bridges accent were you tempted to go Northern Irish at any point I wouldn't dare, man. I'd need a lot more time and prep on homework on the Northern Irish. Northern Irish is hard. Do you know what was lovely was I kind of felt at home within Bridget with the accent that I had. Like we said, we were kind of going for a generic Northern, but we worked with Brendan, particularly on vowel sounds.

59:56that was kind of the main kind of shift within the dialect. But it was nice. It was nice to kind of sit in that. And it's also for me is a really, I associate it with home and warmth. And that was kind of very a part of her essence. So it was just like, I don't know, it just kind of felt like a perfect fit for me.

1:00:20Chris Hewitt:Yeah. Yeah. It's nice. Not tempted to go to American like Kevin Costner. No. he only goes American after like 10 minutes into the movie he's like trying at first and then he's just like nah and then he's just the Robin Hood action figure you pull up the string he goes I am Robin Hood yeah anyway on that note Michael Jodie it's been a pleasure thanks so much thank you thank you cheers thank you okay that was Michael Sarnowski and Jodie Comer talking about the death of Robin Hood and that is what we're going to be doing now because it is reviews section of the show Alex Godfrey yeah tell us about the death of Robin Hood No spoilers, please.

1:00:55It was very, very sad. It is a very, very, very sad film. It's because it's directed by Michael Zornoski, who makes very, very sad films.

1:01:03Chris Hewitt:He is such a nice guy in person. Like, he's funny and kind and personable, in my limited experience, of course. And then you see his films, it's like, dude, what the fuck is wrong with you? But please, continue. What you say is very, very kind. His films are very, very kind. So, Pig, I think, was his debut film. It was, yes. about a man played by Nicolas Cage grieving is he grieving over

1:01:27Alex Godfrey:the death of his trouble but he's trying to find one he's trying to find one his pig's been taken it's John Witt with a pig but he's trying to find it not offend you anyway it's a beautiful meditation on grief pig and then he did Quiet Place Day 1 correct which was not about grief but it was well it's about grief in society I guess and it's about loss and Lupita Nyong 'o's character is dying yes so he has this thing has a lot of heart death and grief and loss and regret and people dealing with trauma and sizing things up. And wouldn't you know it, this film is not a departure from that. It's really taking Robin Hood as a jumping off point as like the legacy of the character and an old Robin Hood, played by Hugh Jackman, sizing up his legacy and basically sort of disgusted with himself and what he's done.

1:02:20so this is set in the 1200s Hugh Jackman plays him as you know, much older than he is

1:02:27Alex Godfrey:in real life, very gruff, very sad, very regretful, he's exiled himself, he doesn't want anything to do with his legend, his legacy, and that's the great thing about Robin Hood, you know he's a folktale, he's a folk hero and it's all about this legacy and the legend of and this is a guy who wants nothing to do with that, and he's like, I don't like what I've done, I don't like what it's done to me, I don't like what I've done to other people and I'm just going going to be on my own. He gets into a big, horrible, horrible fight. Ends up getting very, very injured and ends up at a priory where he is found by Jodie Comer's sister, Bridget, who is just like a Florence Nightingale character and wants to help him and nurse him.

1:03:12Well, sort of not back to life because he basically, he is dying. That's not a spoiler, right? The death of Robin Hood is very protracted physical downfall and she's there to help him almost like a hospice sort of environment and that's basically the film, there are flashbacks and Bill Skarsgård pops up, his little John who's also sort of in hiding and has taken someone else's name and it's really it's this beautiful little portrait of a man trying to live with what he's done as he's dying. It's sort of been maligned, I think, because James, I can already feel you on the side of the maligners.

1:03:58Sharped in his arrows. It's not had great reviews. I think we gave it a three. I liked it quite a bit more than that. And look, it is a glacial film. It is a slow, quiet film, but it's like a little tone poem. And if you want a character portrait, a very mature subject matter. I think Michael Solnowski delivers that amazingly. I was really captivated for it by it. I thought it was absolutely beautiful. It is soulful. It's poetic. Like I say, it's very restrained. It is a meditation on all those themes that Michael Solnowski is preoccupied with. And it's quiet. And it's slow. But I don't think slow, if it's engrossing, is necessarily a bad thing.

1:04:42I like, you know, there is great slow cinema. Some of it legendary. I would say is when this film isn't slow, like the fight I mentioned, it is fucking grubby and grimy and nasty and so violent. It's two old men who can barely move, let alone fight, just wrestling around in the mud, just stabbing each other. Like there's no choreography involved. It's just horrible. You really... There was probably some choreography involved. Yeah, I know. It doesn't feel that way. It doesn't feel... Yeah.

1:05:13It's a very tactile film on every level. and I thought it was really pretty in terms of how it explores its themes. It's really sensitive, it's really compassionate and I was really on board with it and I was really touched by it and I can see why people wouldn't be on board with it but I loved what it was doing. I think it takes a little while to get used to the pacing. For me, it took me a little bit of time to kind of ease into it and kind of get what it was trying to do but it is about regret and retribution and maybe possibly redemption of some sort. And I think the way that it deconstructs the legend was really smart and really interesting.

1:05:52And Hugh Jackman looking like Gandalf kind of worked for me. I thought that was actually kind of an interesting look and something we haven't seen from him before. And really kind of just trying to play with something completely different. Did not recognize Bill Skarsgård. I was like, that guy is faintly familiar. He's built a career out of being unrecognizable. I saw him in two films on this day and I didn't recognize him in this.

1:06:15Chris Hewitt:Bill Skarsgård? Yeah, until... I didn't know he was in the film. Yeah. And because, you know, the credits only come up at the end. It took me 10, 5, 10 minutes. It took me so long. I think it was just before the end of his scenes. I think he's fascinating, Bill Skarsgård. He's really, really fascinating. He's a chameleon. You don't know what he can do. He can do anything. He's this tall drink of water. He's got model good looks, but he can hide them brilliantly. He's chameleonic with that accent of his. He can do any accent, apparently, seemingly. Yeah, he's terrific. I'd watch him as Bond. Anyway, I thought this was really good and Northern Ireland looks gorgeous in it, I've got to say.

1:06:57Chris Hewitt:And also bleak and horrifying and terrifying and desolate. Yes, yes, okay. As things were in the 13th century. It's a film of two halves and deliberately so. The first half is grubby and grimy and bleak and horrible and filled with blood and mud. And the second half of the film is, as you were talking about, it's about redemption and contemplation and compassion. It's spiritual, yeah. And this is a film because it didn't do well at the box office in the States. And I don't know how well it's going to do at the box office this week when it opens in the UK. And it opened in the summer as well. So it's not necessarily going to stick around and be part of the Oscar conversation.

1:07:35It's not a summer movie either. It should have been an autumn movie.

1:07:37Chris Hewitt:What the hell was the scheduling of that? It will be forgotten and overlooked by the Oscars. Jackman is terrific in this. So is Jodie Comer. So is Jodie Comer, but it is his movie, and his final scene is phenomenal. Phenomenal performance. He's great. James?

1:07:55Alex Godfrey:I cannot disagree with anything you're saying, to the extent that it is all of those things. It's meditative, and it's thoughtful, and it's melancholy, and it's a really interesting idea to take, what if Robin Hood had been a murdering sociopath and not a folk hero? like that's an interesting idea what if he was consumed with regret over his sins and it's a man at the end of his life looking back on what made him a man and falling up coming up short it sort of overlaps with Odyssey in that respect yeah and it has a lot of that in it it's got a bit of Logan in it it's got a bit of you know Unforgiven in it like it has a lot of this of this kind of like weary kind of gunfighter soldier warrior arrow fighter whatever you call him you know looking back at his life and you know wondering why you know wondering why he did the things he did how has he become the person he's become that's all very interesting and the performances as you said are absolutely top notch and it's beautifully shot but it is punishingly dour to the point where it is so bleak and so slow and so downbeat and there were just parts where I was clawing my own skin off just praying for it to end like if you're really into you know very abstract slow you know deeply internal stories you know there's stuff here to love there is stuff here to love but it is all the things like it is grubby it is sad it is depressing it is mopey these should all be poster quotes and it just wasn't for me and it just felt like it was interminable so I do think the performances are fantastic and the craft of filmmaking there is spot on but I'm just not sure I'd class this as quote unquote entertainment

1:09:33Chris Hewitt:well you're wrong I think it's better than three stars I think it's a four but we've officially given it three stars three stars then for the death of Robin Hood and hey speaking of wrong three star reviews it's time for Mayday Jimbo

1:09:49Alex Godfrey:yeah so this is the new film from Jonathan Goldstein and John Francis Daly the geniuses behind Game Night and Dungeons and Dragons Honor Among Thieves and this is their new comedy and well the geniuses behind Game Night and Honor Among Thieves and this is their new film on Apple this is a streaming film and it stars Ryan Reynolds as Troy Assassin Kelly. And this is set in the 80s and he is a naval aviator in the manner of Pete Maverick Mitchell. And we see there's some Top Gun action at the beginning with him landing on a carrier and helping out another pilot who's got a malfunction on his plane.

1:10:20Alex Godfrey:It's not this similar to the beginning of Top Gun, which is deliberate. And there are Top Gun references all the way through this film. But he goes on a special secret spying mission over Cold War, Soviet Union, and the Blackbird plane that he's in gets shot down. Fucking love a Blackbird. Love a Blackbird. And he is behind enemy lines and he is quote unquote rescued by a Russian a bearded Russian played by Kenneth Branagh Nikolai Yusinov Branagh is back on his shadow recruit Russian accent duh that's right but but I have to say I absolutely love it in this because Kenneth Branagh is the MVP of this film Branagh Branagh Kenneth Branagh essentially the two of them together embark on a buddy comedy 80s style adventure to get him back, you know, to safety, essentially, to rescue him.

1:11:11Chris Hewitt:2 ,000 miles behind enemy lines.

1:11:12Alex Godfrey:Exactly that. So Nick, as he likes to be known, Nikolai, is a massive fan of Americana and all things USA. He loves Springsteen. He's obsessed with Top Gun. So when a real Pete Mitchell arrives in his backyard, this is his dream come true. Yes, he's former KGB, but let's just cross over that. And the two of them go on this kind of road trip. And it's quite plot-light, but it's quite funny. and the action sequences are actually really good and what's quite interesting is it's really clear that it is Kenneth Branagh doing a lot of this action. He does some really good choreography in it and he's a lot of fun.

1:11:45Alex Godfrey:He leans into this character. He really embraces the stupidity and the sort of lunacy of that character and he's loads of fun to be around and the kind of buddy dynamic between them works very well. I would say Ryan Reynolds is very much doing his trademark comedy shtick that he does in literally every film he's in. On autopilot as well. Right, and genuinely it is that and I feel like sometimes And look, the quips are fine. His one-liners are okay. But if you find Ryan Reynolds quite grating, this will not change your mind. Like, it is very much him being him, doing his thing. But I do think the heart in this between these characters...

1:12:17Alex Godfrey:Well, let me finish. I do think the heart between these characters works very well, and I enjoyed that. So all in all, I think as a kind of buddy adventure movie, it's not a film. We don't see a lot of these films these days. You know, they feel like a relic of the 80s and 90s. It is streaming on Apple. If you have Apple TV +, 100 % watch it. is it going to set your pants on fire? probably not but I had a pretty good time

1:12:38Chris Hewitt:I can I say I now? I I you

1:12:42Alex Godfrey:tell us

1:12:42Chris Hewitt:I disagree I know you loved this I know you did yes I did but I disagree with your assessment of the Ryan Reynolds situation a pilot on autopilot I don't think you were watching the film closely enough really? yeah what did I miss? what does he do that's heroic in the film? he plays the damsel in distress in this movie yes and he is constantly being bailed out. He is effectively useless once he lands behind Rush and Soil. Because he's a pilot. Because he's a pilot. And Nick is the unstoppable one-man army of the movie. And yes, there are a couple of little Ryan Reynolds one-liners here and there, but by and large, he's playing a guy who's scared, who's wounded.

1:13:20Chris Hewitt:This isn't Deadpool. There's a lot more going on under the surface of this character than you might think at first glance. And I think that's true of the film in general. Maybe I'll give it another go. I did appreciate that they examined a little bit of, like, you think we're evil but how much do you actually know about us kind of Cold War propaganda kind of stuff and they kind of talk about that a bit and deconstruct some stuff I appreciate that but overall it felt a bit I think it's so much fun it's smart it's inventive Nick is a character for the ages as far as I'm concerned and you're all idiots that is interesting it's a laugh it's just like if you're going to be at home and put on that film with certain expectations, I think you will enjoy it.

1:14:04In terms of it being a three and a four, it doesn't change the world. It's not doing anything new or inventive whatsoever. But what it does, it does really well. And I think it's a really entertaining experience. Make of that what you will.

1:14:17Chris Hewitt:All right, then. Three stars. Incorrect. Three incorrect stars for Mayday. I nearly sent up a distress signal when I heard that. I had to stop. I was like, what? What? What? What? That was my Darth Vader. But anyway, it's on Apple TV. So the four of you who have Apple TV subscriptions will be able to see it this weekend. And let me know what you think. Actually, we'll just meet up. We'll meet up at a phone booth. All the Apple TV subscribers will meet up in a phone booth and we can discuss what we thought of this movie. Next up, Hells Bells. Hello. Have a pick. You have so many films to talk about.

1:14:52So many.

1:14:53Chris Hewitt:You can choose whatever it is you want to talk about as long as it's one of those three films. Let's talk first about The Incomer. Ooh. This is a new Scottish comedy film. It's written and directed by Lewis Paxton, and it stars Gail Rankin and Granta Rourke, who is my new favourite, by the way. Oh, right, okay. He's great in this. They are a brother and sister who have grown up on this tiny Scottish island entirely alone, basically, since their parents died sort of 30 years ago and left them as children alone on this island. and they are resourceful and a bit weird and they have made it work ever since.

1:15:34But now the council sends Donald Gleeson to basically tell them to bugger off because they're going to turn the island into a bird sanctuary or something. And they have trained all this time to resist incomers to the island and to protect themselves against anyone who might want to hurt them. And so they react rather poorly to this incursion onto their territory as they see it. And that's kind of the setup for this. There's a little bit of, you know, just around the edge as we see his life in the council offices where he works, where Michelle Gomez is his boss and obviously as terrifying and scary as she is wont to be in her characters.

1:16:13It's just a weird little film about some weird little people who kind of find their way through a difficult situation, I guess. I really enjoy this this is we give it four stars and I feel like that's about right this is this is a fun weird little British comedy and we don't it's not quite you know the Ballad of Wallace Island but it's you know it's in that ballpark and that's a good ballpark to be in

1:16:38Chris Hewitt:like like the ballpark in The Naked Gun that ballpark sure sure let's go with that one let's go with that one I was thinking more it's more the ballpark in Field of Dreams you know it's like if you build it they will come Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. So yeah, so we gave it four stars. Four stars. Worth a look. One of those, I didn't really know this film existed until I saw an advert for it the other day. I didn't see any screenings or anything. So yeah. Well done team. But looks good. Looks good. It is good. Yeah. Four stars for the incoming. Incoming. Also incoming is Willem Dafoe in Late Fame.

1:17:20Yeah. Yeah, so this is the new film from Kent Jones, who is a film critic. So I hope we all feel like underachievers people because we're not out there making films as well as criticism. Written by Sammy Birch, who also wrote Coyote vs. Acme. Oh, wow. So big couple of weeks for her. So this is about Willem Dafoe, who plays Ed Saxberger, who is a, well, he works at the post office and lives in New York and has done for nearly 50 years. But he also, in the late 70s, published a book of poetry. And this book of poetry comes into the hands of an idealistic bunch of young, rich... Pretentious. Pretentious, yeah, but wannabe intellectuals.

1:18:06They're well-meaning, I think, but they're also... Enthusiastic, artsy people. Yes, they are. So they're led by Edmund Donovan's mayors, And he is basically all excited about the fact that he has rediscovered this great lost poet and sort of showers Ed with compliments and invites him along to talk to their group. And Ed is both bemused and flattered and kind of freaked out, but increasingly tempted to sort of go along and be admired. And goes along and talks to their group and meets Greta Lee, who is the slightly older actress, who is also very much a part of this kind of flamboyant society. and they are basically all dressed as great figures of the mid-20th century.

1:18:49You know, they're very much modelling themselves. She dresses like Anna Mae Wong or Marlena Dietrich and that kind of thing. She's very, very theatrical, very performative. You know, you've got the guy who's dressed like Hemingway the whole time. They're all kind of almost in costume as intellectuals. They're kind of unbearable. They kind of are, but there's a sweetness to it in the sense that they are... It's real passion. Yeah, they're trying something. They're trying to do something. They're all rich kids who can afford to try this stuff, but they're trying something. And so I spent quite a lot of this film worried that he was going to disillusion them or they were going to disillusion him.

1:19:25But I felt like it was going to go one of those two ways. This relationship didn't feel safe. So that was kind of the, I guess, the dramatic tension in the film for me. Ultimately, I didn't think it had quite enough character meat on the bones. I thought it was an interesting setup and an interesting situation. I thought Willem Dafoe was obviously great. And I liked that there was an interesting sort of thread to the film where he's almost torn between his blue-collar friends who he can talk to about most of his life, but not this poetry angle. And then these new friends who can suddenly embrace this side of himself that he's been neglecting for years and years.

1:20:02I thought there was an interesting kind of tension there for him. But beyond that, it just felt like there wasn't quite... And there's no story to this beyond what I've said. There's no story. but it just didn't feel like it kind of got anywhere for me. So I was interested in it but I was ultimately a little bit disappointed if I'm honest. Yeah, Late Fame and Mayday have about the same amount of plot in each one. I think, I mean, at least Mayday has like guns and stuff though. Like there's no guns in Late Fame. That's where Late Fame went wrong. But I liked Late Fame because of what you were just talking about, because of that tension, that push and pull.

1:20:38what I think it's a really fascinating thing to explore which is how fame which is what this character sort of had in the 70s and is on the cusp of potentially getting back here because they spend the whole film trying to encourage him to perform at a little poetry night and he doesn't really want to and they keep coaxing him into it and I won't say where that goes but he still is enjoying the embrace of these people who value what he did which is something he's basically compartmentalized and put on the shelf for decades and decades and it explores how that how fame uh push but certainly adulation and praise can distort us a bit potentially corrupt us but at least give us like a twisted or skewed sense of ourselves and how it can cause us to maybe lose perspective on things which i think is a really interesting thing to explore and that is all that this film does but what i like about that above and beyond that is that it does it without using a sledgehammer it does it without being heavy-handed uh it's a very tender poetic quiet little film and it is quiet and it is very slight but i thought it was quite lovely and i loved watching defoe sort of internally grapple with that situation and that's sort of all the film is but i love watching him and i loved him doing that are you interviewed him for the podcast going out in this week's interviews.

1:22:04Chris Hewitt:Yes. How was he? He's a very thoughtful, soul-searching, tender human being who takes these things very seriously. It was really interesting, actually. One of the things he talked about was there was a meta thing going on on set because the actors who played this group of kids who are in awe of him as an old poet, on set, they were doing the same to Willem Dafoe as an actor and asking him what it was like and all the stories from the 80s and beyond. And he said life was mirroring art in that respect. And I think the film meant a lot to him. I think it actually adapted from a Schnitzler story, as was Eyes Wide Shut.

1:22:47I actually thought it was completely character-driven and not plot-driven at all. I like the fact that there were no stupid plot things going on. I think it was just exploring something thematic. And I thought it did it nicely.

1:23:00Chris Hewitt:There we go. So, four stars in for late fame. Helen's in the three-star camp. Alex, you were in the... I'm for it. I think it was quality work for what it was doing. But it's slight. It's a slight film. All right. Last but not least this week, we have Gail Daughtry and the celebrity sex pass. Hell's Bells. I love this movie. Yeah, this is the story of the aforementioned Gail Daughtry, who's played by Zoe Doge, who, I don't know if you know this, she has levels of charisma that you can actually see from space do you know the thing I didn't know about Zoe Deutsch until recently did you not know whose daughter she is I did not know whose daughter she was she is the daughter of Howard Deutsch the director of Pretty in Pink but also Lea Thompson and once you see once you know that you get it wow yeah I did know that but anyway she is the aforementioned Gail in this movie she is engaged to her childhood sweetheart all is well in her life she is working as a hairdresser with her best friend Otto and she just couldn't be happier with life.

1:24:01Everything is wonderful. Until one day when she's been having a jokey conversation with her fiancé about the idea of this celebrity sex pass that you can, there's one person in the world who you can, you know, you can, consequences free, have sex with and... Miss Biggie. There you go. There would be consequences. Wow, what you said. Anyway, just, let's not get into it. so so this is all fine until he actually acts on this he gets the opportunity and he acts on his sex pass and this throws her for a loop they're due to get married in just a couple of weeks

1:24:38Chris Hewitt:yeah should she still marry him is the relationship on is it off in theory this is fine he thought it was fine because he's got his sex pass right it's fine yeah it's fine was it laminated but is it though it's not laminated no it wasn't laminated it was only verbal and a verbal contract is not worth the paper it's written on So anyway, so it ends up with her going to L.A. with her bestie, Otto, and recruiting a ragtag bunch of helpers in an effort to secure her own sex pass target, Jon Hamm. And that is the film. I am not mentioning really any of the celebrity cameos here because they're so delightful and you should discover them on your own.

1:25:22Chris Hewitt:Yes. I think it's wonderful I really really really enjoyed it which one do you want to John Slattery yeah yes spoiler alert yeah if you're going to try and find John Hamm and you do find John Slattery you've got to think maybe John Slattery another star of Mad Men can get me to John Hamm so you you latch on maybe to him so he is one of the ragtag bunch yes who help her and he plays himself as an idiot he does and I'm still laughing and a coward I've seen I saw this movie about two months ago and I'm still laughing at a John Slattery based sequence which I think is one of the funniest things I've seen in ages yeah this is David Wayne's a really really fascinating director he's and he wrote this with Ken Marino who's also in the film and they did Wet Hot American Summer and David Wayne directed things like Role Models and Wanderlust with you know Paul Rudd and Jennifer Aniston and he's a really fascinating guy because you know He embraces, I think, all forms of comedy as a director.

1:26:25Chris Hewitt:And they're all in this movie. Yeah. And that's maybe the one thing I think that drags the movie down a little bit. I think this is the funniest film I've seen this year. By a country mile. I laughed so hard at this. I paid to see it. I went to see it with Jaime Blanco, James White, when I was in L.A. at the beginning of July. And it was half full in L.A. It's a great L.A. movie as well. I was not prepared for how funny I was going to find this movie I was on the floor laughing I think it's to slight detriment is that it tries everything it throws everything at the wall and not all of it sticks I agree I think especially early on there's some bits which just feel like they weren't quite sure of the tone or they were still trying to almost figure it out but when it gets going it really gets going it really it's so delightful I cannot even express how delightful it is but it is a particular form of very silly humour people in this room who do not enjoy humour

1:27:26Alex Godfrey:Alex well you know me would not enjoy this film

1:27:29Chris Hewitt:James I don't know if you're aware of this but throughout this review of this film that you haven't seen you look like you want to kill everyone do you know what it's funny you say that but actually I was thinking I quite want to see it honestly this is the Mad Men sequel I think has been missing from your life because John Slattery is amazing in this film. So good in this film. And listen, I'm not going to spoil whether Jon Hamm turns up, but if he does, I'm sure he would be a delight also playing against type. Now, Jon Hamm is a man who would have Miss Piggy on his sex pass. He probably has.

1:28:03Chris Hewitt:I'm sure she has him on her sex pass. Or maybe not because of the name. Maybe not. Ken Marino is very funny. Ben Wong is very, very funny as well as a kind of would-be agent that they stumble upon. One of the great things about this film is that it's a kind of remake of The Wizard of Oz. Yes, it really is. And so Otto is an anagram of Toto. And each of the three people that she recruits into her gang need courage, a brain, and a heart as well. And there's wild outbreaks of comedic violence, which sometimes work, sometimes don't. But Joe LaTrulio is fantastic in this as a kind of mob henchman who is on their trail.

1:28:42Chris Hewitt:And he's utterly incompetent. And one of my favorite moments, I don't want to spoil too much about this movie, but there's an amazing moment where it clearly it was shot very very quickly on a low budget and so they go to the Man's Chinese Theatre to try and look for Gail Daughtry and they clearly just told the actors to go out to Man's Chinese Theatre and walk around and mill around and interact with real people and they left this brilliant moment in where a woman recognises him from Brooklyn Nine-Nine and goes and he goes oh Charles Boyle and he goes I get that a lot and he walks off so I had a delightful time with this and I'm writing the review.

1:29:21Chris Hewitt:Are you okay? I don't know what came over me. No. John needed a review and I went, have you got a review? And he went, no. And I went, I'll write the review. And before I could do anything, I couldn't retract it. I'd said it was in the text. Oh my God. So now I've got to write the review. I don't know how long it's going to be. I assume just five words? No, a bit more, Chris. A bit more. Oh, Gail Daugherty and the celebrity sex pastor. Seven words. Yeah. Is good. Okay, well, a few more. That's your theme. Now elaborate. Don't forget the stars. Oh, yes. Well, there's loads of stars. There's Zoe Deutsch.

1:29:54Chris Hewitt:There's Camarino. There's Ben Wong. There's John Slattery. Maybe John Hamm? Don't want to spoil it. Anyway, four stars. That's what I'm giving it. Four stars. And if I had my way, no, I wouldn't give a five. But it's a cracking film. Anyway, go and see it. Gail Gaudry and the Celebrity Sex Pass. I'm so glad it's getting a UK release date. So go and see it. so that more madcap deranged films like this will be made in the future. But anyway, on that note, that is it for this week's Empire podcast. Join us next week for more film-related fun because the live show we're doing at King's Place is not going to be released as a podcast that is there for the people in the room.

1:30:31Chris Hewitt:Bits from it may turn up on podcasts down the line, but we shall see what happens with that. But we will be joined by two ruddy legends. not just James and Helen but Stockard Channing and Diane Wiest who are the stars of course of Practical Magic 2 I think there are other stars in that film but they mean nothing to me this is all about Stockard Channing and Diane Wiest very very quickly who is your celebrity sex pass? Patrick Stewart did I answer that too quickly? you answered it a little too quickly I think so by Helen On3 Timothy Olyphant I was going to say Dean Winchester Really? Yeah, not Jensen Eichel's Dean Winchester No, it doesn't count Celebrity Sex Pass That's my answer He's not a celebrity Dean Winchester is not a celebrity Technically he kind of is because in world he's the star of a series about Anyway Alright Alex, who's your celebrity sex pass?

1:31:33Chris Hewitt:Mr. Snuffleupagus

1:31:35Alex Godfrey:The things he does

1:31:36Chris Hewitt:with that trunk Oh, big bird Warm and woolly. That's what he calls Alex. Oh, my word. What? Big bird. I heard. On that Abbott Costello-like routine, I think that's a note on which to end this week's Empire podcast. Thanks to Zipper for listening, and it all remains now. So say goodbye to my three colleagues of such lethal cunning. Goodbye, James Dyer. Goodbye, Chris Hewitt. Goodbye, Alex Godfrey. Bye. Goodbye to Helena Hara. Toodaloo. And it's goodbye from me. I'm off to go see my celebrity sex pass. And on the way, maybe I will apologize to her husband for getting in the way of their long, long and wonderful marriage.

1:32:15Sorry, Kermit, but you had to go.

1:32:17Chris Hewitt:Thanks for listening. See you next time. Bye-bye.