QT's Making A List, We're Checking It Twice (ft. guests Taron Egerton; George Clooney & Adam Sandler; Jon M. Chu)

33:38And his work, particularly in the noughties, was like huge for me in my friendship group. But I remember kind of being resistant to going to meet for Baby Driver because I didn't want to go and play a baby faced character. Yeah. Because I was insecure about it, you know. So I know that to be true. And I can say that candidly. That was one of my own neuroses or insecurities. In terms of how other people perceive me and how filmmakers perceive me, I've got no bloody idea. And I think that way madness lies. I, you know, I'm less, I think now that I'm 36, and I'm less kind of concerned, I think, with whether somebody sees me as a young man or a man's man or an older, you know, I think the main thing I'm concerned with now is just wanting to feel like I'm optimizing the creative experiences I get, you know.

34:40Don't get me wrong. I often want to make a few quid as well because I'm a human being but i uh but i um i really i really want to find things that stretch me and you know and um and i actually feel that at the moment i really feel that i'm in that place there's a couple of things in the ether coming up and one thing that i shot last year in australia that i really feel a great have been great opportunities for me to to to do things that feel a bit further away from myself and and she rides was one of them you're shooting something right now uh which is tentatively entitled everybody wants to fuck me yeah i mean there's nothing tentative about that title i'm saying tentative yeah i mean it's been announced as everybody wants to fuck me um and uh i i i am the protagonist so i am the me in the title um it's a terrific script that i I was sent earlier this summer by a writer director named Jonathan Shea, who's done some really great work in TV.

35:44He directed a show called Ladhood, which I loved. And he also did a great short that I saw called The Entertainer with Toby Jones that, you know, was very well received. Anyway, he's written this script and it's, I just thought it was so fresh and different, very funny. and also um maybe a bit scary as well and uh and i think it's got something quite interesting and strange to say about life right now as a young person who's dating and um it's really good and it's attracted some other great people um and i uh i'm having a really good time it's the first time I fit it feels like the first time I've done a comedy since Eddie the Eagle and I'm really enjoying it it's really really good yeah you are graciously doing this while you're filming you're filming tomorrow do you know your lines um yes I do I do know my lines I I know my lines I tend to learn them the week before okay because I find that I need sleeps in between i can learn them the morning of but i'll be it's a bit like um it'll be a bit like i've just stepped out the freezer and i'm a bit creaky and stiff the thing that i do at the start of the day is i kind of privately pray for flow i want you know it's we're always looking to be free and if you don't know your lines you're never getting flow that's never going to happen so I do know them every day on this movie is a new unnerving surprise and delight and tomorrow I'm dancing I'm dancing tomorrow you're dancing I'm dancing with with some women tomorrow yeah alright well I cannot wait to see that give me a line from tomorrow what do you know what are you on is that a line or are you just asking me that both okay both well I cannot wait to hear that delivered in the line with I'm hoping a bit more bigger than that yes I'm not a critic well I kind of am but you know no that's okay we've known each other for well over a decade at this point I'll take some creative criticism from you well I'm on the lemon and ginger in the hope that I'm gonna I'm going to wake up from the crustiness I'm currently in.

38:22It was good. It was a good starting point. Yeah. You've given yourself room to build. You've got to be free to make mistakes. That's a bit. Any true creative knows that. And the mistake that you're thinking you've made right now is inviting the Empire podcast into your flat. Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Well, listen, I'm going to let one of us go right now. Taron, always a pleasure, man. Likewise, Chris. Thank you. Cheers. Okay, that was Taron Edgerton talking about SheRide's shotgun it really was a lovely flat. So you're saying movie stars maybe make more money than film journalists? It felt that way.

38:54It felt that way walking into it. It was very very nice and it smelled divine. Rich mahogany? Rich mahogany, leather bound books, beautiful candles just glorious. Well done. Absolutely. Well done Taryn. If you're listening to this well done you. But anyway we will talk about She Rides Shotgun later on right now it is time to delve deep into what passes for movie news this week. Is there any? Because it was Thanksgiving in the States last week so Hollywood shuts down. Yeah. Since they've woken up again, have they released some movie news into the ether? Yeah, there's been some stuff this week. I guess the biggest one is a rumor that, or at least a not quite firmed up yet, story that Scarlett Johansson is in talks to join Batman Part 2, The Batman, sorry, Part 2, which would be an interesting development.

39:47What? Yes. So last week we were just talking about Scarlett Johansson doing The Exorcist, the new Mike Flanagan Exorcist movie. And this very story says that there was some concern from her team about working out the schedule so she could do both, but they've worked it out so she could do both. So she can bounce straight from the, I presume she'll be doing The Exorcist next, and then straight into The Batman Part 2. But the question is, who is she? Whom? Whom? Or who is she going to play? Jimbo, any ideas? Who would you suggest that Scar Jo is going to play in Matt Reeves' Batman universe? Poison Ivy.

40:28See, that's what came to my mind as well. And I don't know if it should be what comes to mind, but I do feel like she's done her time in a cat suit. And obviously we have a cat woman in this universe already, so that's the thing. But it also means I just don't feel like she's necessarily going to be... The Batgirl. Yeah, or like Huntress or someone like that either. You know, it doesn't, it feels like, well, why would she do that? Like, it feels like a bit like she's already been there. Whereas someone like Poison Ivy, you know, sort of bringing an eco-terrorist kind of vibe might be more interesting.

40:59Is she going to be a kind of quote-unquote like named villain? She could just be like a person. She could be, isn't there a Sergeant O 'Hara? She could be Sergeant O 'Hara. You don't hire someone as brilliant as Scarlett Johansson to play someone called O 'Hara. You just don't do it. Wow. You don't do it. They are... He and Lee played an O 'Hara. All right. The O 'Hara's Helen, as we all know it, are scum, subhuman scum and should not be... I'm telling Catherine. I was about to say, this was one of the many unpopular things you said at your wedding to your family. I was ushered up off the stage.

41:35Subhuman scum! It's like, get rid of him. I was dismissing family members left right in the centre. I say no

41:47I'm excited about this I'm going along with the Poison Ivy thing because I think that a Matt Reeves take on that character would be very very different indeed and played by ScarJo yes I'm fully on board she could be Talia Al Ghul but I don't think that makes sense unless you've introduced Raz Al Ghul into this world and also does that make it a little bit more supernaturally than this world, the Matt Reeves, Batman, has been thus far? I don't know. But then it's poison ivy. But then again, you can always, you know, she can make up chemical stuff. Chemical stuff, yeah. And I think getting into a bit of an eco thing would make a lot of sense for that world, wouldn't it?

42:27I mean, it just feels like, you know, the pollution has not been stopped in that Gotham City, you know what I mean? So, it would sort of fit tonally, I think. Do we know anything else about this Batman part two? Do we know that, I'm guessing Robert Pattinson's in it, but do we know whether whether Colin Farrell's coming back as the Penguin do we know whether Paul Dano I don't know about Paul Dano I know that Zoe Kravitz is apparently not expected to return well she was seen last exiting left pursued by Batman yeah driving away from Glasgow or wherever it was that was standing in for Gotham parts of Liverpool parts of Glasgow can we talk very quickly because I know there's other stuff but just mentioning Paul Dano yeah oh we're going to talk about QT Tarantino's comments this week which shots fired I mean really harsh really harsh yeah he was saying that he loves first of all his list of the what was it the 20 of the 25 it's crackers it's crackers Christmas crackers it's Christmas crackers and Christmas bananas as well should we read it out read it out please this is Quentin Tarantino's list of the 20 greatest films read it in reverse okay from 20 to 1 the 20 greatest films of the 21st century yes yeah otherwise known as Brackets made by my friends.

43:41But this is the thing, right? Before we get into it. Okay. If this were your list of the 20 films of the 21st century. Well, 20 wouldn't be on there. Let me tell you that. I would be like, this is the 20 films that James has seen this century. This is Quentin Tarantino. He's seen everything. It's too late. And this is what he chose? Yeah. So, okay. I have notes. Number 20. Number 20, for fuck's sake, West Side Story director Stephen Spielberg. Correct. I mean, come on. Even Steven Spielberg would not agree with that. I agree with that. At number 19, Cabin Fever, director Ila Roth. I mean, that's a...

44:14That feels like friend tax. I'm not even in that one. It is friend tax. That is 100 % friend tax. At least QT, choose a film I'm in. At number 19. No, that was 19. I can't count. At number 18, Moneyball, director Bennett Miller. That's a good film. It is a good film. I mean, we can recreate it in the aggregate. Right. At number 17, Chocolate. Now, crucially, chocolate, not chocolate. Not Chocolat and not Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. No, no. Was this the follow-up to Ong Bak? Oh, okay. All right. I think I saw it. Full disclosure, I haven't seen this one. I have seen Ong Bak. But it's on Quentin Tarantino's list, so I'm going to seek it out.

44:53Yeah, I'm going to look for it. And apparently it's better than West Side Story, but that's a low Baltic. Hey, have some respect. 16. Okay, and number 16, Rob Zombie's The Devil's Rejects. What the fuck?

45:06I love Quentin but no he has his own taste he likes Rob Zombie they work together I do have questions about that aspect of it because Quentin Tarantino is known for many things but one of them is being a cineast without many peers he really knows his onions and yet he seems to have chosen a number of shall we say quite average films by people he is friends with but I think he has areas of specialism and I think some of these come from his areas of specialism And that's okay. This would seem to indicate that one of those areas of specialism is terrible films. Yeah, it would. It kind of is, though.

45:39That always has been an interesting film. To be fair, that is true. That is true. Okay. 14. 15. 15. The Passion of the Christ, director Mel Gibson. Yeah, you were right to try and skip it. Here we are. I mean, it's a very well-made movie. Yeah. Everything's in focus. It's all that right to me. 14. 14. The School of Rock, director Richard Linklid. I mean, actually, it's hard to argue with that one. It's super good. I don't know if it's Richard Linklater's best film of this century. Definitely a better musical than West Side Story. I mean, according to Quentin's list, but get West Side Story's name out your mouth, all right?

46:16And number 13, Jackass the Movie. I mean, it's no Jackass Forever. It's no Jackass 3D. I think Jackass Forever is better, yeah. What's he doing? QT, what is your major malfunction? Genuinely, genuinely. Are we saying Jackass the Movie is the 13th best movie of the Lost World War II? We're not. He is. Right, but this is what he's actually claiming. All right, well, okay. I don't want that. Okay, let's move on. And number 12, Big Bad Wool. No. This is a, like, gnarly horror, isn't it? I mean, that's, like, I haven't seen that, but Kim Newman did the review, so. No. Yeah. Moving on. Okay, and number 11.

46:50I'm getting angry now. Kinji Fukusaku's Battle Royale. Oh, it's a great film. Yeah, he had many words to say about Shusane Collins and The Hunger Games when he talked about this. It is a great film. Okay. Yeah. Number 10, Midnight in Paris. You know, I've watched it again recently for some reason. I don't remember why. It is a good movie. Great casting. Corey Stoll and Tom Hiddleston before anybody really, you know, spotted them in much. Good movie. Is it, however, the 10th best movie? No, it's not. No, it's not. No, that's silly. And number nine, directed by his close personal friend Edgar Wright, Shaun of the Dead.

47:28Good movie. Good movie. No argument. Is it the best Edgar Wright film? I would argue no. I would say Hot Fuzz is my favourite. So, but hey. Yeah, I honestly, I think there's like a feather inch between them. Feather widths between them. Yeah, a feather inch. Feather inch, it's a thing. Number eight, less controversial, Mad Max Fury Road. Okay, now I have no quibbles with that. If anything, it should be higher. Number seven, Tony Scott's Unstoppable. I mean, I love Tony Scott's. As do I. And I really like Unstoppable, but it's not the best Tony Scott film. It's not. It's the last Tony Scott film, but it's not the best Tony Scott film of the 21st century.

48:11I mean, the train stops, guys. The train stops. Well, it stops eventually. Even the title is a lie. It stops, but once it starts, it doesn't stop until it stops. But then it does, so it's not Unstoppable. But you're not going to see a film called Stoppable, Helen. I mean, if you've thought about this for three... It's no domino. It's domino next. Yeah, at number six, domino. No, Dominic Harvey. Dominic Harvey. I'm a bounty hunter. I'm a bounty hunter. No, no. And number six is David Fincher's Zodiac. That's a respectable cine-ass choice. It wouldn't be my choice for David Fincher's back catalog, but it's a very respectable choice.

48:46But of the best of the 21st century, so you can't have Fight Club, you can't have The Game, you can't have Seven. So of the films that he made in the 21st century, I think it might be Zodiac I think it might be Zodiac or The Social Network for me but yeah I think it's Zodiac I like Panic Room that's just me okay or Panic Room totally fine with that one as well or Mank everyone loves Mank moving on okay at number five despite the presence of Paul Dano who he really does not like I mean we'll get to that in a second There Will Be Blood director Paul Thomas Anderson great movie great movie yes and the Paul Dano comments were basically he called him weak sauce and then a weak sister a weak sister and then implied or maybe even stated outright that he was one of the worst actors if not the worst actor in the Screen Actors Guild which is an incredible statement to make well the Screen Actors Guild is an organisation that also includes as one of its members Quentin Tarantino so I'm not sure at least I assume it does maybe he's given up his membership well at one point at one point it did yeah because you literally have to be a member so And all I can think after hearing that is, is Paul Dano okay?

50:01It's quite, I'm not like, you know, whether you like Paul Dano or not, and I guess he is kind of a... Who can not like Paul Dano? He's the kind of actor who I can imagine people might take against. But to be Quentin Tarantino, to be at that level, to have that platform, and to go out and make an incredibly broad and hyperbolic statement about how bad you think he is, I don't understand why. Where did Paul Dano hurt you? Did he steal your cat? What happened? But from what he said, it was just like an irrational dislike. He also mentioned Owen Wilson. He's just, I just don't like him. Like me with Joel Kinnaman.

50:36Number four, which is wild to me. Dunkirk, director of Christopher Nolan. It's not even the fourth best Christopher Nolan film. So I'm slightly, I guess I'm not that surprised that it's Tarantino's favorite Christopher Nolan film. But I am a little bit. Really? Yeah. It just, it doesn't feel like the one he'd go. I would have thought Inception would be the one for him. I wonder whether he'd think that too obvious. I sometimes think there's a hint of the contrarian about him. Yeah, there is. Like, if he'd gone with Tenet, everyone would have just gone, come on, hey! Do you know, I mean, really, I mean, I think Inception has the kind of, like, group heist, you know, the group dynamic and the sort of sparky dialogue that feels most Tarantino.

51:20I feel like the prestige is probably the darkest and most twisted one. and again a little bit contrarian. So, but Dunkirk? Yeah. Ah, it makes no sense to me. Yeah, that's wild. At number three, Lost in Translation, Sofia Coppola. I do not get on with that film. So, no. Number two, please. At number two, Toy Story 3, director Lee Ungrich. Because at this point, he's just trolling people. That said, this is waggadoodled, that said, it's the best Toy Story. It's a great film. It's a great film. There's no question about it. It's a great film. Lots of hug and meh. It's no up, though, is it? It is no up, no.

52:02Not even an inside out, I think. Wow. Or a Wally. What a list. But that is the second best movie. Number one, it's the Sex Lives of the Potato Men. What's number one? It's the right answer. Yes, no. Number one. Lesbian vampire slayers. The greatest film. The greatest film of the 21st century for the last quarter of a century. The best film. Give us a clue. it is directed by a man who only watches his own films because they're the only good films so he would almost certainly agree with this choice I don't think he would agree it's directed by a man who only watches his own films yeah because they're absolute bangers he knows that he mentioned it recently that's a clue it involves a helicopter there's a director who only watches as a director who recently mentioned something along those lines yes that's right is it Is it Brad Payton, director of Rampage?

52:56No. It involves a helicopter. It has a very impressive cast. Yeah, but when nature shits the bed, this guy does clean the sheets. When nature shits the bed, this guy cleans the sheets. That's a quote from... Rampage. Oh, that's very good. It's not Rampage, just to be clear. It's not Rampage. No, it's not Rampage. It is Ridley Scott's Black Hawk Down. oh yeah I knew that the greatest movie of the 21st century according to Quentin Tarantino ah okay well that's that's certainly a list that is certainly a list maybe we should respond with our own he made a list he did not check it twice he just put it out there we'd all be cancelled I don't even was he on Brett Easton Ellis' podcast yeah it was a podcast which I believe is called Red Flag I'm not sure alright Anyway, so that's the thing that happens.

53:52That's the thing that happens. That is the thing that happens this week. And he said that stuff about Paul Dana. All right, should we discuss a second news story? We're going 50 minutes into news at this point. There have been a couple of trailers this week. And the first one is The Magic Faraway Tree. Now, look, I have read a number of Enid Blyton books, but I've never sampled the delights of The Magic Faraway Tree. I can't help feeling that the dreadful Wi-Fi joke in the trailer is not one that Enid Blyton herself approved. No, that's, well, she was pre-Wi-Fi. So you say. Yeah, because I don't think anybody would have read some of her books if Wi-Fi had existed at the time.

54:27I'm sorry, that's unfair. I used to be addicted. My dad had to actually institute a rule that when I went to the library, I wasn't allowed to get only Enid Blyton books. Oh, you wanted to live in Mallory Towers, didn't you? I mean, Mallory Towers, St. Clair's, and I have to say, I loved The Magic Faraway Tree because it got a bit of fantasy, literally, into these ridiculous kid stories and had much less fascism, for example, than The Nordiest Girl in the School, which genuinely, when you look back at it, is a nightmare story about conformism. But yeah, The Magic Faraway Tree is kind of a... So the idea is there's this big tree in the forest and you climb it, and then at the top there's like...

55:07a land and then there's like a hatch that opens into the land but the land is like a clock and it rotates and so sometimes so the hatch will lead you to different lands every time you go up and you only have a certain amount of time to stay there or you'll be stuck rotating around and you won't be able to get home again yeah um so you could be in birthday land where it's always like a party and there's presents and cake and everything is wonderful or you could be in like really shitty scary land i'm paraphrasing because it's been a while but you know it's it's not the mechanism makes no sense.

55:43It's not nearly as elegant as wardrobes full of lions, but it is, you know, it was a cool idea as a kid. You're like, oh, wow, you just climb up a tree and go through a door, and then you're in a birthday party. Yeah. It does feel like a line from Father Ted. Like, it's not magic. It's far away. It is a bit like that. But I just, you know, okay, here's the thing. I thought this would be ridiculous, and I still think it might be ridiculous. but then you've got like Simon Farnaby after Paddington 2 writing it and you've got Andrew Garfield and Claire Foy and Nicola Coughlin Jennifer Saunders Michael Palin Lenny Henry Simon Russell Beale Rebecca Bloody Ferguson all signing up to be in this film on purpose presumably so there must be something there right?

56:28Unless they were just all like obsessed with it as kids and it's like one of those sort of dream jobs Yeah but I mean even I if I were asked to be involved in The Magic Far Away Tree which as you know given my hugely successful acting career was probably something they thought about. You are the weakest actor in the screen as his guild. It has to be said. Weak sauce, I would say. That's 100 % fair. I would ask to read the script, you know, and I would consider the script before signing up, even as somebody who once loved the books. And I'm sure they have. And the script is by Simon Farley. And I'm sure it's good, exactly.

56:56Therefore, it's going to be great. So I am very, very hopeful. I have to be hopeful that this is going to be... I didn't expect this diatribe of hatred from Helen. This is... She's a monster. This isn't a Brett Easton Ellis podcast, Helen. Oh my goodness, how was that hatred? You can't just unload on Enid Blyton. I mean, really, some of her books are very bad. And I say this as someone who read all of them as aforementioned. So I can say that with some authority. But look, I'm really hopeful and excited for this because why would they all be there otherwise, right? And the kids' performances in this trailer are really charming, I thought.

57:30So that's a good sign as well. Okay, so that's one of the trailers out this week. The other one is the grammatically upsetting Ready or not to Here I come Yeah The follow up of course to Ready or not So you would have left out the two Oh no I'd have put the two Yeah I mean because it can't be Ready or not Here I come to Because that would be a sequel to Ready or not Here I come But it's like a split infinitive isn't it But it's a split phrasing They just don't need the two It's Ready or not Here I come or Ready or not to It's like it's not called Now you see me Three Now you don't It's called Now you three me so anyway so yeah this is the sequel to that and it's caused some problems for me because Catherine Newton and Samara Weaving are two actors who I have historically on occasion confused now this is my own failing entirely there's no commentary on them as actors but I have in my head weirdly conflated those two so having them playing sisters in this sequel sisters sisters blows my mind ever so slightly well this is presumably good casting it looks like a family resemblance Short of getting Margot Robbie in.

58:35Shall we? I mean, I don't know. I'm just spitballing here. Shall we explain what this film is for people who don't know what the first one is? I mean, they know. I mean, it's just an idea. So in the first one, Samara Weaving got married and went home to meet her new in-laws who all turned out to be psycho killers. And she was basically... It's a psycho killer. And basically she was told it's a game, you have to survive the night but if you don't sorry about that it's a shame yeah anyway spoiler for the first one she survived the night well crucially there is an aspect to the first film which could be considered a spoiler and that aspect is present in this trailer yes okay so I will say full disclosure I stopped watching this trailer halfway through because it just seemed to be spoiler after spoiler after spoiler and Ready or Not was such a delight Radio Silence directing Samara weaving just absolutely terrific and it was complete out of left field surprise to me I knew nothing about it going in well I knew the premise but I knew nothing about the twists and turns and surprises along the way and I started watching this trailer and I was like okay nope I've seen enough thank you we're good I'm in I don't need to know anymore there's one particular scene which I obviously will not spoil which I really kind of think they should not have put in the trailer yeah there's quite a lot of this trailer that probably shouldn't be in the trailer But what it does do is showcase the new cast members who include Sarah Michelle fucking Gellar, once again with a stabbing implement in her hands.

1:00:09Come on. Mr. Pointy. Mr. Pointy is back or something to that effect. Sean Hitosi, who I haven't seen in a while, but I enjoy generally on screen. And Elijah Wood as, you know, a dickhead, by the looks of it. I'm on board. I'm excited for this. Fro don't. So, and Catherine Newton, the aforementioned Catherine Newton, as a sister of Samara Weaving's character. Sister. Which is cool, because obviously she worked with Radio Silence, who are Tanner Gillette and Matt Bettinelli. Open, of course, on Abigail, which was terrific. She was great in it. Yes. Both of these things are true. It's good to see them together at last.

1:00:49And there's other great people in this. David Cronenberg's in this film, which is fantastic. Well done him. Nestor Carbonell. Yes. in this. Batman Well himself. Batman Well is back. Is in this. So I'm excited and I just needed to see the first set up. I didn't need to see all the fucking twists being spoiled for me. So excited. Looks good. Yes, please. Alright, should we have our second guests? Let's. Shall we wish them well? Because they are George Clooney and Adam Sandler. Both returning champions, returning to this podcast, but now together because they are together in Noah Baumbach's new movie, Jay Kelly, which tells the story of a movie star who looks a lot like George Clooney, but who's actually called Jay Kelly, but has also starred in this world in a lot of movies that George Clooney had starred in.

1:01:43Anyway, George Clooney is this movie star, Jay Kelly, who is trying to reconnect with one of his daughters. And so he takes a trip to Italy and a prompt you trip to Italy. He sacks off a movie that is clearly meant to be by the Russo brothers, but just slightly differently named. And he goes on this trip to Italy, ostensibly to receive an award at an Italian film festival. But along the way, he confronts himself and who he is and his past. He delves deeply into his past and he does so with the assistance as well of his longtime manager, his good friend Ron, played by Adam Sandler. And these two guys are terrific in this film.

1:02:20It's out this week on Netflix. And as people will know, I'm a huge fan of Adam Sandler. despite that someone, some dolt chose Helen here to do a Q &A with Sadler and Clooney a couple of weeks ago at the London Film Festival. I was burning, burning with rage afterwards. And I asked the universe, I said to the universe, can you give me an Adam Sadler, George Clooney interview on the podcast? And the universe listened to my tale of woe and rage and it answered in the affirmative. So I sat down with them. at London Hotel Room. Rage and woe, turns out, pays off. I don't know. It's a great combination.

1:03:01I sat down with George Clooney and Adam Sandler at London Hotel Room a couple weeks ago and this interview was an absolute blast, folks. They were on great form from beginning to end and here it is. Ton of fun this. Ton of fun. Enjoy. George Clooney, Adam Sandler, welcome to the Emperor Podcast. How the devil are you both? Well, the devil, the devil's fine over here. We're good, I think. We're having a nice time here. That's an Irish expression, George. I hate it. I hate the devil, are you? It is. But you're not Irish. Aren't you from Canada? I'm from near Montreal. Yeah, exactly. I could hear that.

1:03:35It's oozing. I said South African, but here we are. Yeah. It'll come through from time to time. Yes. I'll put a bit of South African in there for you. No, that's nice. If you did it, just not for you. So, I imagine a lot of interviews for this have been talking about your life and career and making you guys reflect because it's a movie that makes you reflect, right? Yeah. So has that been happening? And are you sick of walking down memory lane? I'm not sick of anything, man. I'm excited still. I look over at Clooney. I listen to what Clooney has to say. I say, he summed it up better than I will.

1:04:10So I'm going to just sit here and listen. I think the two of us feel very lucky and fortunate. That's true. To be in the film that Noah and Emily wrote and that Noah directed and that we get to work with each other. We've always been friends and fans with all these other wonderful actors. And, you know, it never gets tiring. You know, it's hard to get wherever you are in your career. It's hard to get in to be a part of a good script with a good director. It doesn't happen. I mean, you do these interviews all the time. It isn't all that often. And so we feel extraordinarily lucky And I think it's fun to be able to come out And talk about it And nice to be with you Yeah, you too I like seeing George Anytime I see George I lift up So you guys have been friends for a long time When did you first cross paths?

1:05:00Saturday Night Live Saturday Night Live George Clooney was the host I came on, I did a guest host And then we started playing basketball We played basketball It was a Monday or a Tuesday night George was dominating the floor There was me, Farley, Kevin Nealon Some other Irish Nealon and Farley I will say Kevin Nealon, a waste of height No, don't say it You will shake him up for life He's a big man and a polite man But he has a nice hook shot He has a hook shot now? He developed that He's uncoordinated on the court? He's not uncoordinated But for a man his height I was hoping for a little dunking action He wanted a dunker I don't know if Kevin's dunking but did you know Kevin was a quarterback in college?

1:05:47Are you kidding? I saw a video of it the other day of old films and he looked great. Made a lot of passes. But the worst was seeing get tackled. You just don't want to see the big boy get tackled. No, you don't want to see anybody get tackled. I'm going to start to build up. I'm tackling you any minute now. George fought this dude in our movie, by the way, and was on the floor rolling that guy was big he had such thick calves german kids that's true yeah jake gets into a couple of fights in this movie i don't run like an idiot i don't he's still fast here's the funny thing you know i'm running like i'm and you know no one likes to do like 30 takes okay i've got to run a couple hundred yards and he wants me to sprint all out and after about 10 takes i yeah i literally said to know you know i'm 64 years old yeah yeah hey what do you need he goes maybe run a little faster so instead of running faster because i couldn't run any faster i just started pumping my arms faster yeah arms quick work yeah arms faster arms and it looks like you're going fast you go that was much faster i was like okay like the t-1000 you're just you're just doing that absolutely oh my god uh because i i obviously haven't you know timed it or or uh used a tape measure in any way shape or form but i think you run more in this film george than you have since I didn't What The Peacemaker Maybe Maybe We were running a lot In that movie But I did a lot of running I did I tried to do a real goofy run In The Descendants In flip flops That's true yeah Saw The Descendants The other night by the way Oh yeah Unbelievable Yeah well Cause you like Hawaii Have seen it before I like Hawaii But yes I've seen it before But I was Going to bed And I watch it differently Because I'm buddies with yours now Okay That movie was You were so real It's a pretty film And so funny And on the money In that one He's such a good Good lord He's such a good You're pretty damn good too, there, besides him being good.

1:07:39Yeah, I'm a nice good director. He don't like compliments. Getting back to running, yes. That's an Irish thing. You don't like compliments? I love compliments. Chris likes them. Let's start dealing with it, Tony. We'll compliment the shit out of Chris. Yeah. You were good in Descendants too. The second I do something worthy of a compliment, you guys can compliment. I would compliment you anyway, man. Okay, thanks, man. I like your accent. That's good. Yeah, wherever it's from. Wherever. Just try and pin it down as I move across the world. Sounds like Tom Jones, Wales, right? Oh, a bit of Welsh, yes.

1:08:05Yeah, yeah. Lovely. Oh, yeah. I heard it. Yeah, I'm dropping it in. Just scream out what's new, Pussycat. Let's hear it. You name a country, I'll slip it into my accent. Within reason, of course. Yeah, I like it. He's a good man. Thank you. Thank you. Adam, how much have you run on screen? Sluggish. Worst runner in business. The movie we were just talking about, you ran a lot in. Oh, yeah. I ran in Punch Trump. Punch Trump. Yes. But not a great runner. Oh, you're a good runner. He's a good athlete. Very good basketball player. Decent athlete, bad runner. You want to hear a sad story? Yeah. I was, I got a base hit in Little League Baseball.

1:08:39Okay. You got to run the first base. Okay. I'm running as fast as I can to beat out a throw. I hear my own friends in my dugout on my team laughing. I'm going, what the hell's going on? Laugh, laugh. I come back in there. I said, what happened? What happened? Just you running. I said, what do you mean we running? They're just like, you think you're going fast, but you're not. Really? That's stuck with me, man. Oh, well, so you were like running in a treacle. I thought I was booking it, and it turns out my body wasn't doing what I thought it was doing. What's your top speed? I ran the 40-yard dash in 2.6 hours.

1:09:17But I got there, man. You took the word dash out of 40 yards. The 40-yard amble. George, what's your top speed? I don't know what my top speed is. Oh, you're fast as hell. Clooney's very fast. I used to be very fast, but not anymore. I think you're very fast. You're much quicker than me. Quicker than me. I'm not saying you'd beat me in basketball. I can't say that. No, I would not beat you. He told somebody he beat me in basketball. I said, don't tell Adam, but I'd kick his ass in basketball, which is not true. It shook me. But it did rattle him, so it's worth it just to rattle him. No, Adam's a really good basketball player.

1:09:57I'm telling you the truth. George is a better basketball player, but I play more than him, so I have a chance. Oh, no, he's a better basketball player. But I will say this, and you will agree. There are a lot of actors that love to talk hoops. Yes. And then you play them and you go, you do not play hoops. Right? That's true. I mean, I can't say how many times people have gone, yeah, we play a pretty serious game, man. And you go play with them. And it's like they're looking at the ball while they dribble and stuff. And you're like, dude, you don't play basketball. Do you have courts set up on set?

1:10:31On the set, yeah. Yes, right in front of George's trailer. We had a hoop. We shot around. We had the best time. Yeah. Even when, because this is a traveling movie. Obviously, you're winding down from Shepparton. Then you're going from Shepparton to Italy. It's a portable thing, right? Yeah, it has wheels. It rolls around. It rolls. Yeah. Listen, you're from Vienna, so you don't understand basketball. Oh, I can't do that accent, George. That accent's too much for him? Yeah. That's the one that stops you after everything we've thrown. Good Lord. First of all, I had to think about where it was. I got you.

1:11:02Austrian, I can't. No. If it happens, it happens during the interview. It's just a natural thing. Okay. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. Don't worry about it. No pressure. Anyway, so you're for it. So tell me exactly where your basketball skills have come from. That was good. Mr. Crowley. So how's this for a segue? so presumably you would have had your hoop on set on day one when you shot that amazing one oh god there's a segway that was good I don't think we had the hoop yet we had a little hoop and you hit a shot oh my god the top he was walking into his trailer to one shot boom and got it and walked away because honestly if you make it you gotta walk oh that was smooth I think I shot about 15 that day didn't hit any oh my god Have you ever seen I'll get back to the film in a second But have you ever seen that moment in Alien Resurrection Where a Sigourney Weaver Is at the halfway line I don't know basketball terms But she's at the halfway point of the court And she gives a basketball and she throws it over her head In one shot and it goes in It's one of the greatest things I've ever seen She really did it She did it for real The way we would have done it Throw it up in the air, somebody catches it and drops it from the ceiling Throw it up really high have us out of the camera range and then someone else drop it ron perlman tells a great story i saw steph curry do it the other day oh yeah that's his job yeah yeah yeah i see but it's yeah it's like he's you finally do your job no one's gonna applaud that true chris if you're sigourney weaver and you're just wondering that was cool that's a good one-handed without looking i'm very that's cool she's also very tall so i could see her just jamming on us tall strong i'm just saying next time you guys have a hoop on set bring sigourney weaver she's the ringer So what he refers to is Kevin Nealon.

1:12:51That's what he needs to do. Oh, wow. Kevin Nealon knows what would happen. Kevin's going to hear this, so he's going to cry. He is a good basketball player. He's got sharp elbows. He's got it all. He had a bad night, maybe, George, that night? I don't know. I don't know. You just wanted him to jam. And he went 6 '4", 6 '5". You got to jam. You expect. You expect to jam. My uncle's 6 '6", still can't touch the rim. Yeah. Never could. No. That hurts. Really? That's Judaism. That's all Judaism. Yes. Just he had other things to worry about. I can't get up that high right now. I've got to get to mom's to eat some soup.

1:13:27Yeah, I'm already in trouble with my children. I spoke to Noah yesterday. He said that the one-er that opens the movie is the first thing you guys shot. Yeah. It was fun. Were you just pitched in on day one or had you been rehearsing it in secret for some time? We rehearsed some. We rehearsed it. Yeah. And then we jumped in and we didn't get it. We shot all day and we didn't get it. And the excuse was that there was a problem with the focus with the lens, which there was, but we needed to do it again. And it was an interesting time because I've done – in the world of oners, I grew up on it because ER was all oners.

1:14:05Yeah, yeah. And then we did a lot of live shows and things like that. And the one thing you kind of learn when you're doing oners is when you get into the editing room, you wish it was faster, right? Yeah. It always feels too slow when you get in there. And by the time we came back the second day and we all had the moves down better. Yeah. And we did it. It was, I think we cut like three minutes out of the take. Wow. So it was much, much faster and it felt much better by the time we did it the second day. It was awesome though. It was awesome because I do remember George kind of, even though it was, you know, the shot and Noah shot.

1:14:45and George just, you just kind of follow, that's when we started just going, okay, this is Jay Kelly, let's just, I love George's, what he gave to the set, how he made everyone kind of feel togetherness, and we had a, we had some sort of, it felt like a team, even though there were 30 different people saying different lines, everybody felt like they were on Clooney's team. That's amazing. Glad to be on the team. And then you guys, I imagine you cut three minutes out of it because of your top speeds. So you were racing fast. And also because Kevin Nealon wasn't in the show. Slowing us down. That was the cut.

1:15:24Yeah. Without giving things away too much, obviously, there is, towards the end of the film, a montage of J. Kelly's movies. And J. Kelly seems to have starred in a lot of films that George Clooney has starred in in real life. I think that means George Clooney doesn't exist in this world I don't And by the way, I'm not really here This is AI It's very good Does Adam Sandler exist in this world, do you think? Adam Sandler has not Been around for about 10, 20 years now No, no, yeah, he was abducted He was taken away by some great Great Rabbi Rabbi aliens About 40 rabbis What are you doing? Adam it's time I said oh I got so many there Sorry It's easy to be abducted When you can only amble out of danger They'll get you You need to have top speed I gotta figure out why I'm so slow I don't know what it was Oh you know why I'm slow guys I just figured it out Tight hamstrings Can you stretch I don't want to do that Can you touch your nose to your knees Not even.

1:16:37You ever see this guy? Oh, my God. Can he stretch? He puts elbows to the ground. I swear to God, it's one of the most flexible bodies I've ever seen. It's incredible. I don't know if that's a compliment or not. It's very nice. It doesn't feel like a compliment. It feels like a big compliment. He's still in compliments around sexual. But still, even if it is sexual, which it was. Yes. No, honestly, I've never seen a man like this. I'm not kidding. You probably could get elbows close to the ground. Yeah, of course. You're lithe, George, like a panther. I am. Lithe. See, that's a word I like. That's a word I didn't think I'd hear all day.

1:17:16Nah, you knew it. You are lithe. Yeah, lithe. Not lithe. Lithe. I said that. I said that. I said that. Didn't I? No, you didn't. You're live. We're lithe and live. And I'm glad you guys are going in a second. Good word. But that montage is absolutely terrific. And if you had to have a montage of your films in real life, I don't know whether you've Is that through a montage of your films in real life? What's it like? Fantastic. I sit and go, yeah, baby, look at that one. Come in tight on the sandlure. Don't say sandman. Come in tight on sandlure. Sandlure. And no, I have not had a montage that I've enjoyed yet.

1:17:52I haven't had a clip of anything I've ever done. Oh, well, that's bullshit. That I go, all right. No, no, I don't ever sit when they spring a clip on you. Well, I don't like that because those clips are always, they never pick the clips you wish they picked. Right, yeah, yeah. You're like, what, that's the one they picked? When you do a talk show, the studio will pick a clip to show and they want a 42-second clip. And they always pick a clip where when it's over, the audience is kind of like, eh. And you're looking going, that's the clip you've picked? And then you've got to explain to the audience, look.

1:18:18Look, here's the thing. Let's not sum me up on that one. Yeah, let's not vote for me on that one. And sometimes you don't know what the clip is, right? You never know what the clip is. And you know what? I've gone to the, hey, the clip there about the show, I go, I don't want to know, man, because no matter what, I'm going to hate it. Right. So, yeah. But I have to say, shooting that scene and being there with Adam, because we didn't know, neither of us knew that they were going to use actual footage of me. So being there, the two of us being there together was really helpful, I think, for both of us, don't you?

1:18:50That we didn't know what was coming. Yeah, it rocked us. Yeah. So what were you imagining? Were you imagining films that Jay Kelly had made that weren't? Well, I thought that they probably, since there was, you know, what we didn't see, there was all projected. But what wasn't projected was what we hadn't shot yet, which was the stuff of my daughter's dancing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so there's a big just blank screen. I thought we were just going to be looking at a blank screen and they'd fill in stuff. Maybe we were going to shoot pieces or maybe they were going to do some CGI. I thought mostly they'd just play it on our faces, you know.

1:19:19Right, right, right. Me too. And then when all of a sudden it was actual footage of films. I thought it was a joke when it first started. Yeah, yeah. Oh, they're kidding. Because it started with some bad hair, you know. and uh you've never had thick hair it was come on but it was still is great by the way no no it's sticking around that's a fact by the way that you and your daughters i didn't i of course you shot that scene i didn't see you shoot it that that i think is the one that knocks me out the most when they're dancing he's leaving and just how you like how you can't stand still and the two kids are funny as hell sweet as hell that's that one i have two daughters that knock me out and i want to leave constantly too by the way yeah we're done here you did you dance let me go to work let me put the bread on the table uh very last thing is uh in that montage obviously there's there's i was so delighted to see burn after reading a feature so prominently i fucking love that movie it's such a great film also i get to shoot brad pitt in the face in that Yeah.

1:20:26I mean, come on, nobody deserves it more. Nobody deserves it more. Bradley. All-time great moment in that film. But I noticed Jake Haley doesn't seem to have played Batman. Did you notice that? I did notice that. You know, I was thrilled with the way that they kept my bat nipples out of that. Yeah. I mean, I wanted people to, you know. Remember when you got Batman, how exciting that was? Dude, I was so excited. That's the funniest part. Yeah. It's like you're calling all your friends. Yeah. I guess I'm going to be Batman. First I said, I'm going to be in the next Batman. And they're like, really?

1:21:02What are you going to play? And I go, Batman. Ah! Oh, my God. And he screamed. You know, like, Ishtar. Ah! Yeah. You know, nobody's really realizing that I'm going to end up in the worst film of all time. It is not. But can I tell you a great one about Michael Keaton? Go on then. Saturday Night Live he hosted. Yeah. And he took all the writers, and I was a writer back then. We all went out to dinner. It was like 30 of us. And the check comes, and Keaton grabs it. And Jim Downey, the head writer, goes, no, no, no, we got this. And he goes, no, no, no, no, let me get this. And then everyone said, no, no, no.

1:21:40And then he goes, I got it, guys. I'm Batman. And we all cheered. Oh, that's fantastic. That was cool as hell. That's fantastic. You get to do that your whole life. I'm Batman. I do that. I say that all the time. And then my son goes, no, you're not. Do you actually have the bad credit card? Don't leave home without it. No, but somebody outside just now pulled one out and said, here, sign this. I was like, what the hell are you doing with a bad credit card? I don't want to get someone to sign a credit card. That's bad, George. It's probably not good, is it? That's probably fraud. That's because you don't trust people.

1:22:08I don't trust people. I do. Well, that's – Being from Vienna, I just don't trust people. I was going to say, because he's, you know, from Greece. That's a Greek man. They don't trust people. Oh, Christ, I've never been to Greece. what do they sound like they sound like me they sound like me they've been naturalized for years exactly like you it is what it is guys I will have to let you go but it's been an absolute pleasure good to see you buddy thanks so much thank you okay that was George Clooney and Adam Sandler talking about Jay Kelly and now it's our turn to talk about Jay Kelly Hell's Bells yes so this is like you said this is a story about an old fashioned kind of movie star he dresses like Cary Grant he looks like George Clooney he I mean a lot like George Clooney A lot like this.

1:22:50Uncanny, isn't it? He finishes a job, gets home, decides to spend time with his daughter. And she goes, well, I'm going Euro railing for the summer. So whatever, dad, see ya. And a little bit stung by this and a little bit sort of, you know, beginning to reconsider the passage of time due to a couple of other incidents over a couple of days. He decides, you know what, I'm going to go to Europe too. There's this film festival that wants to give me a lifetime achievement award why don't i fly into paris spend a couple of days with my daughter maybe bring her to the award show it'll give us a reason to go and be there and i think it's a it's a it's a moment of him needing connection and needing to feel like he is making making plans making an effort with his family um his plans do not go to plan uh it is fair to say and he ends up you know travelling across France on a train, mildly stalking his daughter, I would say.

1:23:47I think it's not unfair to call it that. She's not invited him along or anything like that. He's keeping tabs. I don't think it's stalking. I think he's just keeping lovely parental tabs. I'm not calling the police on him, okay? I'm just saying. Dragging along his poor, long-suffering manager, Adam Sandler, and his publicist, Laura Dern, and various other hangers-on, including co-writer Emily Mortimer as the hair and makeup lady and so on and so forth. And it's just kind of a bit of a caper, but it's also a kind of meditation on, you know, on art, on life, on the things we give up and the things we prioritize, on regrets, on regrets, on, you know, getting older, on life changing, on love and family and career.

1:24:36And I think it's just really touching and really tender and it feels in so much of the way that it shot this really like golden light on the european landscape a lot of it shot in this country but they did travel around europe as well it just feels like it's got a real um glow to it it's got this really warm sense of yes time is passing but you know maybe that's okay and even as he looks back through his memories he's trying to kind of process things he went through figure out if he made good decisions bad decisions could do you have made other decisions? Was that just the way it was always going to go?

1:25:11Where could it have gone differently? You know, there's just, it's a really kind of nostalgic in a good way film in that sense. It's somebody really examining their life choices and trying to kind of figure out why they did what they did and why they've ended up where they've ended up and kind of reassess things. Not always behaving perfectly. You know, there are moments where poor Adam Sandler is essentially having a minor breakdown because he's missing his own family life to be there for his clients. And Jay is completely oblivious because he's all wrapped up in his own nonsense as always. I'm going to drop everything, therefore you must drop everything and everyone else must drop everything and come with me on this journey.

1:25:48Exactly. Because I'm the main character. Because I'm the guy. I'm the guy and you're all not the guy. So that's the way it is. And he doesn't ever 100 % get to grips with this. This is not a film that idealizes him. But it does suggest that there's maybe there's hope for this guy to become a slightly wiser person as well as he goes along, I think. A little bit of hope. I'm not saying a lot. No, no, it's interesting. We can't get into it, but I think you and I fundamentally disagree about the end. We do disagree. Well, and I've been trying to see it your way and I can see why you think that. Trying to see it my way.

1:26:16Yeah. But anyway, but I just think it's got, it's just got a lot of meat to it and it feels quite old fashioned. It's very sort of, it has the glow of classic Hollywood about it, almost in the way that it's shot as well as anything else. It's Noah Baumbach really going for that sort of slightly glossy, kind of Cary Grant's traveling across the country sort of a feel to a lot of these scenes. I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. I think it's not just old Hollywood. I think there's edges of, you know, French New Wave and that kind of thing as well, actually sort of 1960s kind of a feel. When I first saw Still from this movie, I honestly thought it was set in the 60s just because of the way Clooney was dressed in that particular shot.

1:26:55He really was dressed like Cary Grant or something. And it took me a while to realize it was set in the modern day. But it also has some dazzlingly beautiful just single shot moments some dazzling and beautiful transitions Starts with a great winner Yeah, great winner at the beginning but also just some of the transitions from, you know, present day into dream or into memory are beautifully, beautifully done It's a little flashier than I would associate with Noah Baumbach who I think can be sometimes you know, he's a very grounded realistic director for the most part He's a director I really, really like Love the marriage story, obviously the Merowitz stories new and selected I think he's really really terrific and it's fascinating that he's teamed up here with Emily Mortimer I guess both of them bringing a kind of unfarnished look at an actor's life you know Baumbach's not an actor but obviously he's around actors he's married to Greta Gerwig who's also in this film briefly and yeah there's some really really interesting scenes it's absolutely not a hagiography of Jay Kelly in any way it's an examination of this man it's George Clooney running around the countryside looking anguished at times and listening to someone who worships Michael Clayton, I was very much on board with that.

1:28:12It doesn't have the same thriller aspect of Michael Clayton but it's Clooney on top form Adam Sandler also on top form although very much a supporting character I would say to Clooney in this it is the Clooney show it just really brings it home how much we relate to movie stars and how much we remember our own lives based around our interactions with them and with their art I can remember where I was when I read in the newspaper that Clooney was playing Batman I can remember exactly where I was I can remember a lot of things I can remember a lot of places where I was for the first time when I saw Ocean's Eleven I can remember where I was for the first time when I saw Batman and Robin and then called a priest You immediately burned down, weren't you?

1:29:04Yeah, I just remember a lot of stuff through my life. And I think we all do this to an extent. We all kind of look back. And as a football fan, I do that as well. My wife's constantly baffled by my recall of dates. And often it's tethered to a Liverpool game. Of course. Because I'll go, oh yeah, that was that May. Because if you remember, Liverpool won that game that day 3-0. and that's how I remember things and we do the same things with movie stars and with movies as well. I also think it's interesting that there's several movies this year of which this is one that are about, you know, about art and its ability to say things that we ourselves cannot always and I think this along with maybe Sinners and Hamnet, for example, The Milds of Art.

1:29:52are really, on some level, just about the importance of art. They're sort of, yeah, a creative curve for that. Hands off at AI. All right, well, I really liked it. You really liked it. But Empire as an entity, not the entity, but as an entity, or indeed anti-entity, gave this one three stars. Three stars down for Jay Kelly. It is on Netflix right now. You can go and check it out immediately after listening to this. Or maybe at the same time. I don't know. I'm not the boss of this. Probably not how they intended you to view it. No, it's not. Listening to us banging on about it. But if you sync it up, if you sync up the review of Jay Kelly with Jay Kelly, the review will end like five minutes into the film so I don't know what you're going to do after that alright next up let's talk about She Rides Shotgun shall we which is on Prime Video right now Jimbo take it away well you've obviously heard a lot about this already but this is of course directed by Nick Rowland and it is based on the book that Jordan Harper wrote in 2017 and it sees Taron Egerton as a man freshly released from prison Nate McCluskey and picks up his daughter Polly played by an incredible Anna Sophia Hager and takes her on a kind of daddy-daughter bonding road trip, except it's not really kind of Six Flags and Disney World, and it's more let's run away from the white supremacists, which is a less fun kind of road trip, in my opinion.

1:31:14So it's a very gritty, slightly bleak thriller. And yes, it does involve neo-Nazis and something that Nate has done in prison has not just imperiled him, but crucially, it's imperiled his daughter. his daughter has been green lit her life is in danger so he's trying to keep her safe in the only way that he knows how which isn't I think on many people's you know parental advisory list I'd say the thriller aspect of this is fine like it's good it's quite simple it's quite straightforward it's not particularly surprising I don't think that's this film's strong point to be honest I don't think it's bad I think it does what it needs to do I think what this is about is it's this father-daughter bond that you see kind of kindled quite early on because he's been in prison for a while she doesn't really have a relationship with him he's not really written or stayed in touch with her and now he's suddenly back in her life.

1:32:01Like she knows who he is but that's pretty much the extent of it. You know, she has a stepfather now. Her mother's, you know, remarried. So, but the bond between them sort of kindles quite quickly and it's very, very real. It's very believable. Her, I mean, her acting is just incredible. Yeah, she's amazing. The film opens and closes on her face pretty much and there's so much emotion in those eyes on her face. She just plays it beautifully and your heart breaks a thousand times over watching this. It's one of my favourite final shots of the year. Yes, it's fantastic. Incredible. It's fantastic.

1:32:33But to be fair to Taron, again, another really good performance because he's at once formidable, slightly terrifying, buff as fuck, you know. He really is slightly scary in it. But also the relationship he has, like he doesn't know quite how to express himself. He doesn't know how to be a father, but he knows that he loves her and he knows that he wants to keep her safe. And it doesn't feel mawkish, but it doesn't feel artificial either. It's really believable. Well, there's an emotional honesty here that I think really, I found really affecting. So I really liked it. It's quite slimline from a plot point of view.

1:33:03It's quite straightforward. Really, the only other main character in it, I would argue, is Rob Yang, who plays the detective, John Park, who's trying to, well, first of all, catch Nate, but mainly to get Polly back because they believe that he has kidnapped her. And then it plays out with, obviously, as we said, some white supremacists in there. But it's, you know, it has added Nazis, is what I'm saying. but yeah it's really there just for that central relationship I think it's a great character piece and I thought they were both fabulous in it I 100 % agree I thought they were really really terrific together and it's got so much heart I mean we've seen films like this before you know big tough guy on the run with small child you know Logan apart from anything else but I think this is a good example of the genre I enjoyed it yeah it's fantastic really really well acted it's a shame that this movie has been I think slightly dumped in a way on Prime Video give it a go check it out good solid thrillers some nice action beats great performances what else do you want?

1:34:03I don't know I don't think we've got an official Empire review yet I believe Ben is still writing it Ben is still writing it I don't know where he's going to land if it's Ben five stars five stars good movie says Ben Travis so there you go for She Rides Shotgun next up Hellspells hello we have It Was Just An Accident it really was I didn't mean to. Oh, what? Sorry, you mean the film. Yes. This is, of course, the Pam Dorr winner at this year's Cannes. Yes. It is a very, very strong film. It comes from Jafar Panahi, the Iranian director who made this in secret without permission. Yep. It is critical of the regime.

1:34:41He has been, I believe, handed a prison sentence this week. In absentia. In absentia. He is not, thankfully, in Iran at the moment and therefore is not in prison. But this is, I thought, an astonishing film. So leaving aside a short scene at the beginning, our story really begins with a guy called Vahid, who's played by Vahid Mabaseri. And he is an ordinary, everyday guy. He works as a mechanic, essentially. And he sees this man, following that opening scene, he sees this guy who he believes he recognizes as the person who tormented him when he was unjustly imprisoned years before for his union work.

1:35:19And he's pretty sure he's got the guy. He follows him home. The next day he follows him again. He goes out and he ends up kidnapping him. And puts him in a van, takes him out to the desert, is literally, you know, digging a hole to bury him. And then he starts to kind of question himself and go, well, like, I was blindfolded. I don't, is this really the guy? He's saying he isn't the guy. Can I trust my own memories? Can I trust my own instincts? So he basically decides to recruit a bunch of fellow survivors and try and establish, is this the guy that we remember tormenting us in prison, torturing us in prison?

1:35:55And this unlikely and frankly ragtag group who are all traumatized by their shared experiences, who are all dealing with it in various diverse and sometimes unhealthy ways, have to figure out, is this guy responsible for torturing us? And if so, what do we do with him? What is the right thing to do? Or at least what is going to give us some peace, maybe? it's a film that's sometimes really funny, really, really funny. It's sometimes absolutely heartbreaking. It's not, you know, explicit. It's not gory, but it is quite upsetting at times just because you're hearing these accounts of this maltreatment and this horror in prison.

1:36:37And it ends with, I would say, another of the year's absolute best final shots. I think the end of this film is absolutely an all-timer. It's an astonishing finale to this film and it's really lingered with me since I saw it. So yeah, I think this is absolutely worth the hype. We gave it four stars. If anything, I think that's harsh, but it's an extremely, extremely good film that is worth your time. Yeah, I really want to see this. I've heard nothing but great things since May, since it came out. I believe it is tipped for Oscar glory, certainly the best international feature film. I think it would be a very, very strong contender there.

1:37:16and who knows you never know it might be able to be in the best picture race as well very very excited to see it especially now after hearing your review as well so there we go it was just an accident four stars for it was just an accident but a Helen sanctioned fifth star because it's Christmas you know what I've decided that every film this week because it's Christmas gets five stars including Eternity. Isn't that right, Jimbo? Yes, the five-star film that is Eternity. This is David Frain's, I guess, somewhat whimsical, supernatural romantic comedy, I will say. So this stars... Five stars. Steady.

1:38:02This stars Elizabeth Olsen as Joan. And her husband, Larry, who is eventually played by Miles Teller, passes away and ends up in the afterlife, which is a kind of... It's a weird, it's almost like a metro station hotel mixed with like... A convention. A convention, like a 1960s convention. But instead of being Comic Con and there being lots of nerdy shit, the convention is there selling eternities. And the idea that when you die, you go to this kind of... It's got a Beetlejuice-y vibe to it, to be fair, but slightly less anarchic. You go to this holding area and you pick your eternity. And there are rules for dead people.

1:38:37And those rules are that once you have picked your eternity, that's it, it lives up to its name. You are there for eternity, So you can choose once, you go there, and you are never allowed to leave. So if we were in pod world, we would be podcasting from here until literal kingdom come. So, you know, choose wisely. But there are all sorts of things. There is a nudist world. There's world of Satanism. Studio 54 world. There's a man-free world. Helen would like that one. Yeah, there was a smoker's paradise, which made me laugh. Bromance world. Maga world. Yes. That's pretty funny. Marxist world.

1:39:06So there's lots, they have a lot of fun with the different worlds is what I'm saying. And the idea is that Mars Teller, who is Larry in his youthful form, because he's youth, they go back to the time when they were happiest when they die. He goes there and he essentially waits for his wife, Joan, played by Elizabeth Olsen. She eventually carks it as well. In fact, only a few weeks later, so we don't have long to wait. She turns up and he thinks the two of them will be happy together on Beach World, or whatever it is they choose to go. Unfortunately, there is a wrinkle. She was married in her youth for two years to the incredibly dashing Luke, played by Callum Turner.

1:39:39And he has been waiting for 67 years. It's been 84 years. Exactly that. So she then has, shall we say, an unconventional love triangle, and she has a choice to make. Does she pick Luke? Does she pick Larry? Who does she want to spend eternity with? And essentially this film spins out that choice over the course of its nearly two hours. And do you know what? Is it surprising? I think they do a good job of making you unsure which way she'll go, but also which way you want her to go. Or also, will she go either way? Man Free World is right there. Man Free World can 100 % go there. It's quite fun.

1:40:19It's gently amusing. There is one sequence in it that is positively mad and has Eternal Sunshine vibes to it. But it's very short-lived. And it's a shame, actually, because I wanted more of that kind of afterworldy craziness to it. It's actually weirdly conventional at times. But it's quite sweet. You know, it's quite nice. I liked it. But ultimately, when it got to the end, I kind of thought it was fine. Like, it was good. It was decent. It was solid. But I didn't think it was super, you know, it didn't tug at the heartstrings particularly. I think Elizabeth Olsen plays a 90-year-old woman in Elizabeth Olsen's skin very, very well.

1:40:54There's a lot of fun made from the fact that they can, for example, do squats. Do you know what I mean? It has a few little jokes in there. I couldn't help feeling myself that both of her potential suitors are raging bellens. you know, and Mansory World was looking pretty good to me. No, I think they're, I think they handle the character building quite well. This is director David Frayn who's Irish, I think, so let's give him a passion. Ah, Jesus. A six star then for eternity. And there's fun roles, Divine Joy Randolph and John Early play their afterlife consultants who are trying to push them in one direction or another.

1:41:30I just, I felt it didn't ultimately have the courage of its convictions in the way it plays out. and I think it couldn't quite decide. It was trying so hard to keep us guessing that it didn't really have a firm belief in its own ending. So that was really my big no. I think the last act is weaker than the setup. The setup is pretty good. The setup is really good, but the last act, to me at least, was a bit weaker. It's got some really good ideas in there, but I think ultimately Helen's right. It doesn't really have the follow-through. That doesn't matter, James. We've given it five stars, a Christmassy five stars.

1:42:05Okay then, Helen, spoil sport. We've given it officially four stars, but you know what? Guess it's Christmas. Christmas is just around the corner. I'm going to say it. I'm saying every film that is released in December will get an Empire podcast, Christmassy five stars, no matter how terrible the actual film. If you have been sitting on film companies, distributors, if you've been sitting on any real pieces of shit, now is the time to release them because it's an amnesty. Oh boy. If you can get your piece of shit onto a big screen between now and December 31st, we will give it five stars. And Quentin Tarantino might name it one of the greatest films of the 21st century.

1:42:48I do not co-sign this approach. Nope. I'm trying to get on the fucking nice list. Oh, I see. Chris, I think it's too late. It is too late. It's far too late for that. Anyway, four stars in for Eternity, which is in cinemas. There we go. as is It Was Just An Accident. She Write Shotgun is on Prime Video and Jay Kelly is on Netflix. So there you go. And on that note, that's almost it for this week's Empire podcast. Just one last guest. And so that guest is John M. Chu, the director of Wicked for Good, which is, of course, the second part of the Wicked saga. It's in cinemas. It's been cinemas now for a couple of weeks.

1:43:26And I sat down with him on Zoom a couple of weeks ago and had a good old natter, a good old spoilerful natter about all kinds of things. The full spoiler special interview will be packaged on our spoiler special subscribers feed along with Team Empire's take on the film which we're recording tomorrow. But I'm going to wet your whistle with a little John M. Chew here. About the first 10-12 minutes or so of him talking about this movie with me. So here it is right now. Enjoy. We're delighted to be joined on this Wicked for Good spoiler special by the film's director, John M. Chew. How are you, sir?

1:44:03I'm very good. Excited to be talking about this movie in the deep dive version. Before we get into the film, by a wonderful quirk, I realized this the other week. I talked about this on the Empire podcast, that I believe you are the only director in history to have made four second entries in different franchises. Wow. That's incredible. That's great to know. I can't believe that. So for those keeping score at home, of course, Step Up to the Streets, G.I. Joe Retaliation, Now You See Me Too, and now Wicked for Good. Wow. I also did a sequel, just to up my record, I did do a sequel to Never Say Never, Justin Bieber.

1:44:50I did a movie called Believe. So, yeah, I guess that counts as another one. So five? Are we saying five? Let's say five. Let's make it harder than no one to reach. it's a tough record to beat but it means going into a second part did you did you know what pitfalls to avoid uh and what to hone in on second time around i never saw uh wicked for good as a sequel we we we shot it at the same time as movie one it was always one big story in a weird way movie one was the fairy tale that cracks just at the end of it and movie two is it's shattered in pieces in front of us and we're now a little older and looking back and trying to piece those things together if it's even worth piecing together and then what is the story that we have for our future um so to us when we were shooting it and editing it because we shot it we edited it at the same time as well um at least the first pass of it um it was it was a complete i would say one year uh cinematic experience for our audience that we were always keeping in mind there are of course two new songs in yes wicked for good uh no place like home and the girl in the bubble, both of which are bangers.

1:45:58Interestingly, No Place at Home, I love the way you ended it. You don't end it on that big up note. There's a moment of drama that ends that song. Can you talk about that, first of all, but also finding the right place to insert both of those songs and what you wanted those songs to accomplish? Yeah, so for No Place at Home, it was a moment in the script that we know we needed to be close to Elphaba. The best thing about a movie musical is that it's not about big performance. It's actually about you have access to a character that comes from the inside out, that they get to speak the things that they're thinking.

1:46:37And it's not a soliloquy, it is a song. So you get melody, you get movement, and you get lyrics to help accentuate or bring us closer to them. So it's actually about intimacy. And if we were going to look at movie two as a full movie, then I needed to know what was happening with Elphaba. So Schwartz and Winnie and Dana and I and Mark Platt, we were on these Zooms together in the very beginning of this process, going through every line, every lyric of what was in the past. What do we need for this movie? And in this particular moment, it was, what does she feel about what she's fighting for? They think she's a villain.

1:47:11They want her dead. Why is she fighting for this place? And even the animals who she's defending aren't listening to her. That was a very interesting concept to explore with Elphaba. So it was either going to be a scene or a song and Stephen Schwartz was like, it's a song and it's called No Place Like Home. And this idea of home was so fascinating to us because we were going through COVID lockdowns when we were developing the script. Suddenly we're trapped in our own home and we're looking at our home as a country or as a world and everything's all, all the things we thought the adults knew, they didn't know.

1:47:46and now I'm looking at myself, a new father and looking at my kids and being like I don't even know what to tell them how I feel about the world and what do I tell them about the world of this place that I don't even know what our culture is anymore and that we were going to have to define that so the song was something playing up against that, this idea that why do I love this place that never loved me what is she going to go through in this So that to me, it started as an anthemic song. We were like, it cannot be another ballad. We've had, couldn't be happier. And we're heading to dark times.

1:48:23If we do another ballad, it's going to be an energy song, sync. It has to be a question that she asks herself. And then it has to be like, no, she has to fight. She has to actually double down on her wants and needs. Because if this is her, I want song, then we need to, even if she has their doubts, she has to say, no, they're trying to make us feel worn down. They're trying to make us feel like there's no hope. but we have to fight harder. And we get her to this place, to the final ending. And we actually shot her singing the final note because we didn't know which way it would go, but we knew it could go either way.

1:48:53And the cutoff helped us so much dramatically when we did it in the cut. Again, we had both versions because it allowed us to then say, there's no answer. She's not giving an answer to us. And then it feels very episodic when you go to the next scene. You're like, okay, end of that. Now what? And it just, we needed the motor to keep going. So the disruption of the Cowardly Lion stopping her. Makes us hungry to finish something and we don't know quite what it is yet. And we'll hold that for later, for maybe even no good deed later when she gets to hit the big note. So all those things were considered as a part of how do we engage the audience emotionally with music, not just do a new song.

1:49:32And by the way, we tested the song many times in terms of if this song isn't dramatically needed, then we should cut it. Because Wicked has enough songs. We don't really need another song if we don't have to. And we tried the version where you cut both Girl in the Bubble and No Place Like Home just to see, just to test our theories. And you needed it. You're like, I don't even know where Elphaba is coming into this next scene. So it was really helpful. And that's how we sort of came to that. And with the Girl in the Bubble, you know, it's a moment of introspection and reflection and self-awareness as well for Galinda, which was very important.

1:50:13Can you talk about that also? Yeah. When we're looking at Glinda's arc, it's very clear if she's singing couldn't be happier. And she's looking for how to be fulfilled, maybe not be happy, but feel right about what she's doing. She had to go through this journey. When was she willing to pop her bubble? It's very reflective of a lot of us in our own lives. I've been making movies for years, making all these sequels, and they were great. And I was living a great life. But was I challenging myself? I don't know. I felt a little bit empty that following someone else's work never showed people who I am.

1:50:52Part of it was, hey, actually, it's really interesting. You get a box and you get to make and you get to be more creative, actually, because you get to find out what you bring to this franchise. But it comes to a point where I know what I'm doing now. I need to know for myself who I am, which is where Crazy Rich Asians and The Heights came on. So when I look at Glinda's journey, I think very often that it's about us. We're both good and wicked. None of us are just good or just wicked. So there's a point where we have to forgive each other. And does courage have an expiration date? Because she wasn't able to change in movie one.

1:51:30In movie two, the struggle with when you know the truth, who are you going to become? It was very important. But I never saw a scene where she makes that decision. It just sort of happens. And so I wanted to see her struggle. And we all talked about, again, Schwartz and Winnie and Mark. And it became very clear. It's a scene or a song. And Schwartz frees his hands. It's a song. It's called Girl in the Bubble. Oh, okay. And he sent his little voice message and he sang it. And that's, you know, No Place Like Home evolved over time. But Girl in the Bubble stayed pretty darn close. and it was this idea of mirrors and distortions.

1:52:10It was something that I knew visually I wanted to play with because we're on a screen, we're watching a movie. We are living a life that is squeezing the space for movies in our lives. We're filming ourselves. We're looking at others as we scroll. And so this idea of a distortion or reflection was really interesting to me and that she was living in this sort of maze of images of herself. And so this idea where she looks at herself, and it's a weird distorted mirror, and the fact that she looks at herself and can question, like, who is that girl? And we don't start it with an intro. We actually had an intro part of this music that starts, that's really beautiful, that got us in.

1:52:52And then we had John Powell, our composer, built an outro from the scene before that eased us into the song. So we had to choose. And what we found was both got ahead of the story. That if we had nothing, that as soon as she closed the door, you just hear the yells outside. It really was almost meta. Like it was almost like we were on set with Ariana Grande and that there was silence. And you could hear her footsteps and her big dress flopping around like it was just a costume. And that silence, then she looks into the mirror and she sees this story version of it. And she starts the song. The song doesn't start her.

1:53:29She starts, look, is what she says. And she sings. And then the strings are hesitant when they come in. They're not confident when they come in. They're hesitant as they bring us in. And the camera moves and we see her reflection. And we go in and we get trapped in this sort of multiverse of all these different versions of her and how she's trapped in it. And so for me, it was about ultimately, maybe we shouldn't be looking at our own reflection. It doesn't matter if it's a distortion. There's always a prism between us and the reality. And then if we want to be good, we had to be good. We had to act good, not look at the reflection of, do I look good?

1:54:08And that really informed how we were going to visualize the song. And I don't visualize songs until much later after we've maybe heard the song. She's recorded a pre-version just to know how we can move it around. And then I come up with the concept of it. But I love that we got to do this. And it would involve a set. She got her private suite that she always wanted. but the set had to be built for this sequence. And the costumes, how she was going to move around, what it was going to feel like to be trapped in it, where are the mirrors in this room? It was almost like a Muppets theater because we had all these trap doors and things opening and closing that we had to know way before how to do it.

1:54:45So it's a big technical challenge. And then for Ari, the lyrics are so powerful. We didn't want to leave her face. So how do you do a song that you never leave her face, but isn't boring where you're just sitting there watching her sing? How could we be a part of that narrative? And it's, oh, the reflections. If we go from here to the other here, then we never leave her the whole time. And so that was all part of how we sort of developed Girl in the Bubble. John, I could talk to you for a lot longer, but sadly we're being wrapped up. But there you go. It's been an absolute pleasure, sir. And thanks so much for your time.

1:55:16Thank you. See ya. Okay, that was John M. Chu talking about Wicked for Good. And as I said, the full Sporter Special will be up on our Sporter Special subscribers feed. next week, I'm saying. Next week for that, Guillermo del Toro and Frankenstein went up this week as well. So it's a good time to be a subscriber. If you haven't already, empire.supportingcast.fm and very, very quickly, our live show, episode 700, Friday, January 9th, King's Place, London. There are still a couple of tickets left. We're down to the last couple of, I think maybe the last row and a half in the stalls and the last row of the balcony.

1:55:52So if you want to get your tickets to see us live with some amazing guests and these two dickheads. January 9th, Kingsplace London is going to be absolutely amazing. Go to kingsplace.co.uk snap up those remaining tickets while you still can. That wasn't a dark thread. I'm not going to kill you but I'm just saying that the tickets will soon not be available because other people will have bought them and then just like the Kirk and Spock thing you'll be kicking yourselves. Kicking yourselves. Anyway, join us next week for more film related fun and we'll be joined by Glenn Close Glenn Close the legendary Glenn Close and her dog Hurrah first time I've ever interviewed someone and her dog amazing and her little dog little dog star of Wake Up Dead Man who else is going to be on that show there's going to be other people on that show as well I can't quite remember everyone what are my maid of calendars I don't know but there will be great great guests on next week's episode of the Emperor Podcast but until then until we meet again until that auspicious occasion it is goodbye from my two colleagues of such lethal cunning goodbye to you which one to say first?

1:57:09Oh my goodness James and Helen Oh this is nice behaviour is it? This is nice list behaviour I'm trying to get on that fucking nice list and if I don't do it Santa Claus is I'm going to punch him in his fucking face It'll kill you who'll kill you for real he'll snap me snap the claws that's what he was going to do bye bye toodaloo all I want for Christmas is for everyone to listen to the Pilot TV podcast James James and Bohambo Helen neither of you can ask for the impossible Santa can't do it Santa's too busy snapping up those final tickets for our live show Jan 9th although he will be he'll be on holiday by that point the lazy guest yeah coming to our live show for his holiday yeah that's actually our guest yes Santa Claus is our guest.

1:57:52Oh, that's a good question for next week. If you could have one Santa Claus on a live show, who would it be? Anyway, it's goodbye from me as well. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Bye.

1:58:22You