The Ballad Of Roger Legend (ft. guests Rachel McAdams & Dylan O'Brien)

31:25No, no, but... Oh, you mean release order, maybe. Maybe release order, but maybe it is, you know, that one is a focus in each era. And obviously you've got to have some amount of crossover and everybody's got to be in everybody else's movies by definition. But maybe there is a little bit of a different focus on people at different times. Possibly. The one issue with that for me would be that the complexity of the Beatles' relationships and the way that everything shifted, especially the John and Paul relationship, and I think that needs to be explored by giving everyone equal weight in a movie.

32:02I think if, say for example, John was the last one at a time when things were becoming really, really fractious for the Beatles and you saw everything from John's POV. Well, I'd like to see something from Paul's POV as well. So I think that's what they're going to do. Oh, no, I don't think it'll be purely POV. I just think there'll be maybe a little bit of... Because, for example, if you're bringing in Yoko Ono, that's obviously later on, but she's presumably going to be a big part of John's story. So there has to be a little bit more time in his film, presumably, given to those later years. Presumably, maybe.

32:35I don't know. This is pure speculation weaving a fabric of possible lies on the strength of these films. And it might literally be that they've chosen the films where the haircuts make the most look like the relevant Beatle. Yes. Do you know what I mean? It may be that Paul Meskel looks a bit like Paul McCartney when he's got the mop top, and absolutely not for the rest of the films. Maybe. That's possible. But it just occurred to me that maybe you do start with Paul because he was so young when you began. and you know he's really it's a real coming of age story maybe you know you want George Harrison to be the focus during the sort of breakup period because he was the one who was kind of walking out the door at one point maybe you want to spend more time on John Lennon's immediate post-Beatles years I don't know but that's that's purely speculation on my part my feeling is that it goes up to the Beatles breakup and stops that is John Lady or Beatles John for sure but it is very interesting okay I'm going to ask you guys a question Amon and James how important when it comes to a biopic is fidelity facial fidelity how important is it for you guys that the actor playing the character looks a little bit like the character they're playing are you okay with someone not resembling who they're playing the Jeremy Allen White Bruce Springsteen approach for example where he played Carmi from The Bear with a guitar?

34:07Or do you want or do you want you know do you want to go full It will never die Full Bohemian Rhapsody where they just stick a fake mustache on Rami Malek and go that'll do Because here they've got prosthetics right? So Barry Keoghan as Ringo So you know is that important to you for example? Amon It's not unimportant but it will always be secondary to have you nailed the essence of the guy you're trying to play via performance if the acting wasn't at the level where it can burst through the prosthetics then the prosthetics would just be you know basically all surface no no actual depth you need the combination of both for it to really sing remember chris your skepticism about Austin Butler.

35:01You mean Elvis? Exactly. I know, and this is why I'm trying to take a helicopter view of this whole thing. Because Jimbo, I look at these pictures of the four people playing the Beatles, and I see Paul Meskel actually looking a lot like Paul McCartney. I see Barry Keoghan looking a lot like Ringo Starr. I see Harris Dickinson from a distance, from a distance, looking like John Lennon, of course, not John Legend, John Lennon. And then I see Joseph Quinn looking like, apparently someone the Beatles used to hang out with and I'm waiting for them to release a picture of George Harrison because he looks

35:39nothing like him I mean nothing like him even the hair colour's wrong what's going on James? I mean it helps that I have literally no idea what George Harrison looks like you know what John Nugent looks like I do and that's George Harrison that is genuinely my only point of reference here does he look like the nuge? no he doesn't look like the nuge they've got it wrong it's an odd thing to do when you have clearly made an effort to make three of them look demonstrably like someone and if as you say I'm taking your word for it one of them doesn't one of these things is not like the others that's an odd choice but I don't think it always matters hugely weirdly I had no problem with Jeremy Allen White as Springsteen I could see it I could see it as Barry Springsteen yes I could see the similarity but I could you?

36:24yeah genuinely were you squinting? yeah a little bit But I could see there was something there. I think if you can capture, as Amon said, the essence, if you can capture something about them, but genuinely, so I think sometimes I think mannerisms, vocal tics, things like that, are almost more important than, is your bone structure the same? Because you'll bump on it for the first five minutes of the film, and then after that, you won't think about it again, if they capture what you think of as the person. But the other thing is, it depends on who you're playing, right? So if you're playing someone who is almost caricatured in their mannerisms, You can get to that point where it can become distracting and it'd look like an SNL skit.

36:58So I think those are the more difficult ones to do because you want to capture that because you need to capture that for verisimilitude. But if you go too far, it looks like a spoof. So actually, if you find people who are less mannered, less caricatured, I think, you know, it's a lot easier to do. All right. Well, listen, we live in optimism, right? Every day. Can we go back? Because you said that the Scuttlebutt says that they're going to release this all at once. Yeah. That would be very surprising to me. Like we just, the other week, we're talking about Wonder Man and the release schedule for that.

37:30It feels like there would be enough from sort of character to character, focus to focus, that they could spread the releases of all of this out. And that would be to its benefit because then it would dominate the conversation for weeks and then rather than just one week or weekend, release everything, and then people move on. This was a suggestion made not by us, but other people when they were first announced. but then also you have the arguably it's less of an event that way if something is like and it's very Beatley they were pioneers they were breaking ground all the time if they go four films filmed at the same time edited at the same time you can see why the release date's in another two years because Mendes has got his work cut out here and then released at the same time that's pretty wild and also if you were to release them say one a week through the month of April and the reaction to the first couple wasn't that great then the box office for say the Beatles Ringo really tails off whereas if you release them all at the same time then people can pick and choose and also the cultural conversation should should continue through the few weeks ahead because people will be catching up with them because you won't have time to see all four in one day or one weekend most likely but that's an interesting question like what's he going to go with for the run time because if these are like a tight 75 minutes you could pretty much do them back to back, right?

38:52You know, it's like, how long are they going to be? Where's the achievement in that, Jimbo? I want three-hour behemoths. That's what I want. It's going to be amazing. The Beatles extended edition. Oh, my God. I want them as long as Peter Jackson's Get Back, and if not, longer. All right, that's enough Beatles chat. Let's see what else happened in the world of movie news. Trailers. The Devil Wears Prada 2. Yes. They're all back. All your favorites from The Devil Wears Prada 1. Andy and the other three are bagged Miranda. Did Emily Blunt play a character? Unit, shut him down. Did Emily Blunt play a character called Emily in the first movie?

39:36Correct, yes. But the joke was that Miranda called them all Emily. She would call Anne Hathaway also Emily because she didn't care to learn her assistant's names, you see. Ah, I see. All right. So what do we make of this trailer? I think it's promising without giving very much away. There was some suggestion online that the gimmick about Miranda refusing to remember either Emily or Andy's names made her look a bit more doddery than bitchy. I don't think that's entirely fair. I read that too. I don't read that from the trailer. I just had fun watching Meryl Streep and Stanley Tucci back together.

40:13That alone would be enough for me. the fact that you've also got Emily Blunt and Anne Hathaway is just a bonus, really. And I feel like they would probably see it the same way. So, you know, I don't feel bad about saying that. But I'm intrigued by this. The idea is that Andy is back to be the features editor of Runway, but they're now up against Emily, who is, I think, married a billionaire and now has money to burn and may not be using it for them, but against them. It looks loads of fun. Yeah. Yeah. just vibes and gowns is basically what that trailer was with very little plot information but I liked it you have me at vibes and gowns and gowns beautiful gowns many beautiful gowns will they be cerulean?

40:59this looks great they all look wonderful they all don't they look wonderful? they all do doesn't Anne Hathaway look glowing? you can see why William Shakespeare fell in love with her anyway so some very very quick movie news to talk about the final Fast and Furious movie has been not only given a release date March 17th 2028 just a couple of weeks before the Beatles a four part cinematic event colon Paul the Beatles a four part cinematic event colon John the Beatles a four part cinematic event colon George question mark and The Beatles, a four-part cinematic event, colon Ringo. It is also entitled Fast Forever.

41:48Surely that should be the Fast and the Furious, colon, a cinematic event, colon, Fast Forever. Although I respect their commitment to the bit of having absolutely no consistency in the nomenclature whatsoever. And I'm here for it. Yeah. So this is apparently going to be the last one. They finally announced it. It was meant to be out two years ago. and they've been spinning their wheels and Louis de Terrier is back and it's exciting. That March release date is wild because this has become a summer franchise. And March, I know global warming and all that, but March at the moment is not summer. So maybe it will be by 2028.

42:26Yeah, it's 17th of March though, St. Patrick's Day. St. Patrick's Day! Yeah, this is clearly going to be an Ireland set Fast and Furious movie. It can't be, can it? Because his whole thing is, I mean, I would say conditions, but what he said about what he wanted this to do, he wanted to go back to street racing. Yes, Big Vin, Dom, Dom Baretto. Back to street racing routes, the best of the franchise. He said they don't have streets in Ireland. You can race in Ireland. But he wants it in LA. He wants it back in LA. He wants it toned down so none of the over-the-top going-to-space stuff. Much the same thing.

42:58He wants them, he wants it going back to its roots, and he wants Brian back. Oh, come on. Don't do that. I can't see it happening. Street racing, LA, Brian. Yeah, he says a lot of stuff to Sven Diesel. Do I take this to mean that you think Fast and Furious 1 is better than Fast 5? Oh, we've already established it is the greatest of the Fast and Furious 1. That's just wrong. Point break with cars. I'm taking issue of the word final here because in no way, shape or form, there is no way that they don't 10 years or whatever from now bring these characters back for a legacy sequel. with Dom doing something stupid.

43:37This is not the final Fast and Furious movie. I'm prepared to say that right now. He's in denial. He's not prepared to let it go. He can never let go of family. Family. I mean, you say that. I kind of jumped off the Fast and Furious train a couple of films. No, the cars I'm on. No, there's sometimes also trains. Tanks and planes and spaceships. Well, actually, in Fast Five, they jump onto a train. They do. Does that help? I think they drive off the train. This metal film has gone off the rails. Well, yeah, that's what they did too. Yeah, like the train. So hopefully these final films can restore my faith in the franchise and can take it back to the best of it.

44:22But like, as I said, the last couple haven't really done it for me. You were not on Shunt Head by Dante? Oh, Dante was great. That was one of the few things that I liked about that movie. Yeah, Jason Momoa. Bring him back. Is he coming back? Because it ended on a fucking cliffhanger, not a cliffhanger, so it's a dam hanger. Dam buster. Right. So are they even picking that up or will it just be like, five years later with family? Five years later, yes. Due to contractual obligations, Jason Momoa is no longer in this film. I don't know. Who knows? And will the mooted Hobbes versus Jason Momoa's character spin-off that was meant to happen?

44:57That doesn't seem to be happening either with Dwayne The Rock Johnson. And yeah, I don't know. There's so many characters. I just want to see Luke Evans' story concluded. I want to see Owen Shaw giving closure. Right. You don't think he was giving closure by saving a baby from a plane that one time? And then just going, bye, and then leaping out of the plane? I want to see The Rock team up with the kid from Up, and it'd be Fast and Furious, Russell and Hobbs. No? What are they going to be doing? Some kind of boiling point? Toasting something? no I've broken Chris use balloons to take the car airborne I mean Kurt Russell's already in the franchise why did you have to bring the kid from up into it I see what you're saying I see what you're saying to be fair he doesn't play a character called Russell we don't know that he's Mr.

45:46Nobody that is true he could be Russell Nobody or Russell Kurt he's an amazing name or just fuck it Kurt Russell fuck it yeah Kurt Russell fuck it Kurt Russell it's a bit like John Roger Legend isn't it anyway okay one last thing Mike Flanagan's The Exorcist is moving apace and it has added Chiwetel Ejiofor to its cast hooray hooray do we have any more details no okay apparently he might be playing a former priest oh I love a former priest in these movies because then they're tortured aren't they yeah they're tortured and they're probably let's be honest literally tortured also crisis of faith you will probably die if you're a former priest I don't wish it on him but I worry for him.

46:33I don't want... No. I'm just saying. No. I'm just saying. I don't want Chihuahua to die. What tends to happen when people's faith shakes in an exorcist movie? Oh, they die. The lamps shake as well and then the demon goes, you have no jurisdiction, you're a priest. No way, that's law and order. Anyway. Any film that Chihuahua is cast in just got better. Yes. He's a fantastic actor. Have you watched Serenity the other day? he is so good he's so good in that he's so good and Bridget Jones Mad About the Boy where he plays a tortured former priest you know he's so great so that's exciting ScarJo of course in that Noah Jupe in that too and Diane Lane so when I said I didn't have any more information I had you had loads more information so Noah Jupe so this was he'll be hoping to die in this now again I sound death obsessed but Noah Jupe has been apparently complaining to his little brother like when when Jacoby Jupe was cast in Hamnet, he was like, I'm going to have to die again on screen because apparently every film he makes, he dies.

47:34And Noah was like, I never get to die. So maybe he'll get lucky this time. Noah Joop will die. That's the dream. That's the dream for him. Let me, again, be clear. I'm not wishing death on anybody. I'm just predicting death. The Empire Podcast does not wish death on anybody. Well, maybe. Except, time for a guest? Let's have it. Shall we have guests? All right. So this week sees the return to the big screen of my beloved, possessive goat boy, Sam Raimi, a.k.a. the greatest director in the history of motion pictures and the director of the finest motion picture in the history of motion pictures, Evil Dead 2.

48:12And he is back with Send Help, which strands Rachel McAdams and Dylan O 'Brien on a desert island. He is an asshole boss. She is a put-upon worker who has been fucked over for a promotion and their dynamic on that island becomes very interesting indeed. Lots of hilarious hijinks ensue. This movie is an absolute blast. And as was this interview when I went along to, yes, a London hotel room to sit down with Rachel McAdams and Dylan O 'Brien just last week and we had a right old giggle. So here you go. Enjoy. Dylan O 'Brien, Rachel McAdams, welcome to The Empire Podcast. How are you both? Thanks for having us.

48:55Thanks, doing well. We're great. How are you? Yeah, not too bad, not too bad at all. I want to dig into your Sam Raimi trauma. Okay. Yeah, consider this to be like a psychotherapist couch, if you will. Obviously, they can't afford a couch, but, you know. Should we get comfortable? Day one, you guys, you told me this already. Day one, on set, Sam shows up wearing a paper bag over his head. Yeah, that was the beginning. That was it. How did that make you feel? Were you okay with that? So very alarmed. Yeah? I have worked as Sam before, so I'm on to Sam. Dylan, on the other hand. You're on to Sam.

49:31I feel like you walked into the office and I was like, what is this? What's going on? And I was like, oh, yeah, he has a paper bag on his head. Did he do stuff like that? He was going to do it for about 15 minutes and then it'll be over. We'll move on, we'll talk about the script. It's just a phase he goes through, he needs to wear a paper bag on his head. Just indulge him. Was it a power move? What was he doing? Was he trying to unsettle you? I think he was trying to make him feel comfortable. Like. Oh, really? Yeah, like. Uncomfortable? Comfortable. Oh, yeah, no. Yeah, 100%. And it's his way of feeling comfortable, too, which I like really relate to.

50:07It's like a communal ice. Now we're getting into the therapy of it. Yeah. It's like a communal icebreaker almost. It's like very welcoming into the space, which I really appreciated because that's A, I think, like a love language that I really associate to really resonates with me and be I don't think there was a B. There doesn't have to be a B. I don't know why I started doing letters. I do that all the time. I go A, the thing. Yeah. And then two, that's not even a letter. What's going on? There doesn't have to be a B. That's the one thing we've learned about today. There doesn't have to be a B.

50:45Yeah, it doesn't have to be. So, Rachel, had Sam pulled anything like that on the set of Multiverse of Madness? Or was he on his best behavior on that one?

50:57No, the first day, he came up to me and said, he got very serious, and he sort of came close and said, young lady, would you like to keep your job? And I didn't know Sam yet, so I said very earnestly, yes. He said, okay, well, then you will have to do that better and faster. Savage. Because this isn't one of your little Canadian films, okay? He did this bit to you straight out of the gate? Of course. He does his, he has all the bits and they always come back for more. He's always workshopping. He was doing this. Yeah, he's workshopping. He's basically like a closet comedian. And he's always like workshopping like a quick 10.

51:49He's the biggest performer of all of us. He's, is he a frustrated actor as well? No, he's a great actor. So he was in a film with, he's a great actor. He's very funny acting stories. I wish he was still acting. His story about sabotaging that other actor who got the line instead of him. Yep. by like holding onto his t-shirt so that he would miss his cue. And then the AD was getting really frustrated with the guy for missing his cue because Sam was holding on to his t-shirt. And then I think Sam got the line back. He doesn't feel bad about it. I think he kind of does, but he knows that it's such a funny story.

52:31I don't know. Who knows? That was amazing. And of course, Rachel, congratulations on your Hollywood Walk of Fame star. Thank you. Which was amazing. I know Sam gave a very heartfelt speech. Really lovely. Yes. It does as well. That was a tight 10, right? Yeah, he opened up with his rubber band bit. Which he also kicked off the screening last night with. At the premiere. And when he did it at my star premiere, his girlfriend was filming and she goes, every time. To me. I've heard this joke. Because I turned to her and I was like cackling because I loved it. She's like, he does it every time. Guess it works.

53:09He has a series of rubber bands. Yeah, truly. He walks around with rubber bands in his pocket. He brings one to do it. Mm-hmm. So when you got to that beautiful, exotic beach, Mm-hmm. what was that like for you guys in terms of your interactions with him and your interactions with each other? Because things, you know, they go up a few notches. Yes. For Linda and Bradley on that. Cranks up a bit. It certainly does, yeah. Get to the island. um yeah i mean a lot of calibrating and how much can we get away with and we had we had already shot so much of the film by that point we had done the whole first half of it in sydney so by the time we got to that actual beach we were kind of um we had a lot we had a lot under our belts but trying to track the jumping back and forth was a big challenge Because the first half of the shoot covered so many like pinnacle markers of the film.

54:11And then it was like going back to the beginning and like and filling in all the beach stuff. Mm-hmm. So it was really out of sequence, which is really challenging. Oh, it was massively out of sequence, was it? Massively. Oh, okay. Yeah, it was crazy. So we couldn't get tanned. The great irony was that we had to actually stay pale. you know we were spending all our time on a beach we were under these little umbrellas um yeah sunscreened up every morning and then tanned up every morning unless we were jumping back i was burnt up every morning that's right yeah yeah because probably he's a little bit more tanned than linda shall we say uh little little sunburned yeah he's yeah he has these really bad burns the whole time a little ruddy yeah never gonna recover from that i was 12 hours in the makeup chair wasn't it Dylan I think every time he just just call time was 1am.

55:06Dedication. And his hair grows so fast your hair grows so fast which is a sign that you're very healthy person. It's grown about an inch since we started the movie. Which is quite the thing. Yeah. Is this is this a special skill it's on your cv you know the actor's Actors special skills. I'll advertise any. You know that's on there. It's just shandy. Shit that isn't true is on there. Yeah. I can fish. Yeah. I can't fish. Do you have anything, any skills that you have acquired as a result of this movie? Nope. What about golf? That's some pretty good putting skills you got going on there. I mean, that's just like mini golf, you know?

55:50Just like mini golf. That was an eight to ten foot. That I can handle. I can handle a little me a golf. No, I swing a golf club like a baseball bat, so I can't. I shank it. It always does this. I'm not I'm not much of a golfer at all. Okay. But you are a baseballer. Yeah, I love baseball. Okay. Yeah. Different sport, obviously, but you know that. But you a lot of people think, you know, because the same skill set, but it's an entirely different mechanics are this way. Right. Rachel, you into golf? You're a golfer? You know, I used to work, I've worked at two golf courses. I was a waitress at two different golf courses growing up.

56:30I didn't know that either. And I got green, like access to the green for free. Your swing is really good. Why again? Thank you. You were like working on it, but what was the story again? I was working on it, yeah. I was going to the driving range. I do not play golf oh okay you could have fooled me I never ever once played golf really the whole time all the free golf in the world I was like oh no I'm okay I'm just gonna go home now my shift's over we did play one time like as a staff fun thing we played go in the dark golf at night yes yeah and that was fun yeah I like that that's about the extent of it that's it that's the skill you've picked up from from previous that was before so yes you picked that up yes that's amazing okay you guys go in a second but just one last thing for for each of you Dylan this movie comes out over here Feb's well Feb 5th this is the week of Dylan O 'Brien because twin lists also comes out hey thank you okay on Feb 6th yes as well you play twins yes imagine if Sam Raimi attracted that movie could have tortured you twice.

57:44Yeah, that would have been a different, a different version of Twinless. That would have been a different film. If people go see the Dylan or Brian double bill, what order should they go see them in? Second time I've gotten this question today. No. Yeah, I'm sorry. I pride myself in original questions. I'm sorry. Motherfucker. Who was it? I want names. I want names. I'm scared to tell you. It will track them down. Yeah, yeah. You gave me a little red in the face, man. Use your acting skills to pretend you've heard this for the first time. I know. I should have. I should have. And instead, I can't help it.

58:26And I'm just like, Barry Astor, that's a story. I can't help it. It flies out of me.

58:35I still don't have an answer. Oh, I'll give you the answer. OK. Start with Twinless. Go, Rachel, go. And then move into Send Help. Yeah. Yeah, fun. Why? I would say let's go Send Help and then finish, round it off with Twinless. Why? You're questioning me. Because it's the other way around. How about you start off with Twinless, you leave Twinless halfway through, you go see Send Help. No one's going to want to see either of these. You come back and you watch the end of Twinless. Diminishing returns at some point. I love movies. You're a movie fan. Yeah. And you're leaving in the middle. Oh, movies.

59:14I thought you said golf. No, I've never seen a movie. I have no idea what movies are. My job. It's all an AI simulation. It's fine. It's fine. It's not happening. This is when we start the interview, this is going to be completely different. This is just the test. The test. This is rocking. I think it's good. A, it's been great. and only A. Two. There has been a B. You've got to. There's no B. I can't count to B. I can't count to B. The last thing, Rachel, I have seen movies. One of those movies is Game Night. We say this on the Empire podcast all the time, but your delivery of the line, yes, oh no, he died, we say this all the time, is the greatest line reading in the history of cinema.

1:00:07The History of Cinema. I can die happy now. When you were delivering that line, did you think, this is about to be the greatest line reading in the history of cinema? I did it. Don't mess it up. I did it. You did it. I did it. You did it. I didn't think that. No, it was four in the morning, and I was like, what am I saying? Oh, my God. And that's where brilliance happens, I guess. Isn't that funny? Yeah, no, that's so sweet of you, though. Thank you. Thank you. It was an amazing line reading, and that experience was preparation for this interview. So it all comes around full circle. Life is beautiful, isn't it?

1:00:48There we go. Absolutely brilliant. Guys, it's been an absolute pleasure, and I hope they record this. Rachel, Dylan, thanks so much for this. Cheers. Thank you. Thank you. Great to see you. Buddy, that was wonderful. Thank you so much. Thanks, guys. Okay, that was Rachel McAdams and Dylan O 'Brien talking about Send Help, and now it is time to send help to us because we have about 24 minutes to review a dozen films, starting with Jimbo, Send Help. So really quickly then, is what you're saying. Okay, I'll do my best. It was implied. It was implied, and indeed it's dead. I mean, you've already covered the plot, haven't you?

1:01:21But it's like, this is a survival horror comedy, I guess. And Rachel McAdams is this sort of meek and mild financial strategist, and Linda Little, and she, after a deeply upsetting tuna sandwich incident, gets passed over for a promotion by her new Bell End boss, Nepho baby boss, Dylan O 'Brien's Bradley Preston. However, the tables are turned because the corporate jet that they're on crashes on a desert island. There are only two survivors and wouldn't you know, it's Bradley and Linda. He naturally goes to pieces. She, a former would-be survivor contestant, flourishes, thrives in this wilderness environment and the power dynamic kind of gets reversed.

1:01:57And then after a while, Bradley starts to resent his reliance on his former employee and their relationship sours a little bit and everything goes a bit Lord of the Flies. This is genuinely funny at times, to be fair. I had a pretty good time with it on the whole. It's quite gnarly. It's got blood, guts, gore. There's an eviscerated pig. Lots of puke. Lots of puke. And lest we forget the tuna sandwich is so upsetting. The performances are really, really fun. McAdams, who's brilliant in everything, let's be honest, but kind of she transforms from this downtrodden caterpillar to this sort of Robinson Crusoe-esque butterfly and that's really fun.

1:02:33And she's also really good with the dark parts of this because she, you know, she starts with this office mouse type character and then gradually, gradually becomes ever more unhinged as the film goes along. So I really liked her. It plays cleverly, I think, with your sympathies as you go through because they're both kind of bellends in their own way, which is fun. So it's enjoyable. However, however, for me, I found it pretty obvious exactly where this was going quite early on. And then I was just kind of waiting out the clock a little bit. And I think so. So for me, it felt a little stretched like because it's quite a simple premise and I think you know with a tighter run time I think it would have been spot on for me it just outstayed its welcome a tiny little bit and it kind of it's a little bit it was described to me by someone as an overlong episode of Tales from the Crypt and I was just like I kind of see I kind of see that aspect of it it is fun I did like it but I ultimately I just it was a little bit flabby for me it could have done with with trimming a little bit but but fun I went into it not knowing anything about it and I really really love this for me it wrong footed me I thought this film was going to end a certain way for a good chunk of the run time and then things shift and let's just say I was completely completely wrong but I loved the switch up that it did playing with your sympathies is exactly right and it's interesting sort of thinking about how I felt at certain points of the film knowing how it played out and what you kind of explained away at certain points in the film only for stuff to happen, which makes you think differently about certain characters.

1:04:03So I thought it was great. And Sam May be in the horror guy that he is, a couple of moments did get me a little bit. I really, really, really enjoyed it. I do have notes. I think there's another film which I'm not going to mention because even mentioning it would be a spoiler. Star Wars. Wow. No, but anyway, we're not going to mention it. That did something similar recently and I wish this had felt fresher for people who have seen that. But at the same time, I just really enjoyed the madness of it. I really enjoyed the shifts and the dynamic. I do think Rachel McAdams is amazing. I love her. It's an incredible performance.

1:04:44But I do think she's not the perfect casting for this because even if she has a bit of tuna sandwich on her face, she's still Rachel McAdams, right? And I think the level of visceral disgust that the guys in the office have for her would be better explained if she wasn't Rachel McAdams. So, I was willing to suspend disbelief and it's a good enough performance that God knows she makes it very, very easy to suspend disbelief. But it isn't, I think, the perfect casting for that role, if I'm perfectly honest. Having said that, I had a great time. I disagree with that. And we'll get into that on our Sporter Special.

1:05:19All right. There may even be fisticuffs. Well, okay. Because the Sporter Special will be on a desert island and it's going to be just me. I forgot to tell you that. Good luck. Good luck. Oh, no, I'm not going to survive that. By the way. But, you know, go out on a high, right? I love the film. I do think the point would have been a bit stronger if she weren't conventionally gorgeous, that's all. I disagree with that. I think they do a reasonably good job of... It's not quite like She's All That, where they've just put glasses and dungarees on her. They do actually do, I thought, quite a good job of taking her natural radiance down a few notches at the beginning.

1:05:53They have essentially put glasses and a grey cardigan on her. And a tuna sandwich on her. I mean, but anyway, this is, like I said, that was a nitpick. I really did have a nice time with it. Well, I love this. I think this is the 15th joint greatest movie of all time. Of course. Along, obviously, with Evil Dead, Crime Wave. We don't have time for you to list them all. Oh, that's right. I said we don't have time. And then I wanted to list all of Sam Raimi's films. I love this. It's my boy, and he's back. And this is, you know, I struggled a little bit with Multiverse of Madness. But this is my boy, Firing on All Cylinders.

1:06:26but this is not the show-off Sam Raimi. This is not the visual stylist. This is a very buttoned-down, very classically directed movie. Bill Pope's the DP as well, and they really do conjure up some fantastic images. The camera isn't moving around at 100 miles an hour until he wanted to, and then there's real moments of impact when that happens. But it's more about the battle of wills between these two, as James said, prize bellends, and I think it did a really, really good job of successfully flipping your sympathies for both Linda and Bradley a number of times during the movie. And I do think it is quite deliciously twisted and dark.

1:07:04And I'm fascinated. This spotted special is going to be really, really great. You're going to have to join us on the desert island as well, guys, because I'm really intrigued to see, A, the ending, James could see coming a mile away. I'd like to interrogate that. B, I'd like to hear the ending Amon was flummoxed by. and three I'd like to hear the movie that Helen thinks is a dead giveaway because I don't know what that is apart from maybe Hamnet I don't know what it is but yeah I love this this is tremendous fun and four stars four stars to my beloved possessive good boy Sam Raimi well done more power to his elbow please and please don't make it a long time before we see a Sam Raimi film again four stars I ever send help next up I mentioned Hamlet should we stick with Hamlet yay because confusingly they've released Hamlet a couple weeks after Hamlet yeah this is Riz Ahmed Hell's Bells yeah this is Riz Ahmed in an Anil Carrier version of Hamlet it is a I guess I guess technically it's a loose adaptation of Hamlet if we're honest because they've they've chopped down the text they've basically focused on every scene that has Hamlet himself in it there's no two other characters talking about Hamlet but he's somewhere else in this.

1:08:24This is like Hamlet. So how short is this? It's just about the two-hour market just under, I think. Five stars. But it makes it into quite a compulsive sort of first-person thriller. It's basically this guy finding out at his father's funeral that something is deeply wrong and that maybe his uncle killed his dad. This is him having a confrontation with his father's ghost. And is he imagining it or is it real? this is him being driven on a rollercoaster of revenge, essentially, for this great wrong that he thinks has been done. It's got a terrific supporting cast. Sheba Chadda as essentially his mum.

1:09:03Gertrude is off the charts. Great. Art Malek is his uncle. Avajit Dutz is a fantastic elder Hamlet, the ghost, essentially. And you've got Morfydd Clark, Joe Alwyn, and Timothy Spall as their... So Joe Alwyn's in both Hamlet and Hamlet. He is in both Hamlet and Hamlet. Blimey. He's Laertes here with Morfeth Clark as Ophelia. But Ophelia's role has been slightly sort of smushed together with Horatio's. So she's also sort of a best friend confidant as well as the former love interest. So I just thought it was a cleverly done thing. And what I think is great about this is it's sort of in subjective, almost real time.

1:09:40It takes place over a couple of days and mostly nights. And he's kind of wandering the city trying to figure out what to do and figure out what to feel about all of this. and like other people are saying, no, it's been months, you know, your mother is now marrying your uncle, like time has passed and he's gone, what? No, it hasn't. Like this is all right now. It just happened yesterday. So it's kind of like, it's the subjective experience of being caught up in this crisis and not able to escape it and not able to get beyond his own head. And I thought Riz Ahmed was absolutely fantastic. This has been a passion project for him for like over a decade.

1:10:16He worked with Michael Leslie on the screenplay and sort of they workshopped it for ages. And Neil Carrier came in and gave it this first-person focus. But I just thought it worked really, really well. You can absolutely nitpick it. I'm not going to because I liked it. Good. Good on you. All right. What do we give this one? We haven't got the review up yet, so I'm going to say it's four stars. No one can argue with me. So it's four. Sooth. Four stars then. To be. Not not to be. To be not not to be. Well, he does the to be or not to be speech in classic rich boy in a crisis mode. Oh, good. speeding along a road in a sports car I should have said of course two stars or not two stars but Helen's gone four it is the question four stars then for Hamlet Amon next up is My Father's Shadow okay so My Father's Shadow directed by Akinola Davies Jr this is his directorial debut and it's set during the 1993 Nigerian election crisis takes place over the course of a single day and it stars real life brothers Godwin and Chibuge as Akin and Remy.

1:11:21They spend the day with their father, played by Shopei Durizu, who is attempting to reclaim six months' worth of back pay. And so they're following him around as he's trying to do all of this. I really, really love this. As somebody who is a Nigerian, just to see Nigerian culture on screen. It was actually filmed in Lagos, wasn't it? It was filmed in Lagos. It feels very vibrant. and just the tasty restaurants, the stylish African garb, the rich sense of community, you can all feel that coming through the screen. I love how it unpacks black masculinity. One of the big themes in the film, just on the father's side, is yes, he's trying to earn money so that he can provide for his family, but in doing so, he's become an absentee father.

1:12:11And that has had an impact on his kids. So his kids revere him, but they also fear him. And there's some anger there that the film slowly unpacks, which I think is really, really good. So, yeah, this is a really, really, really strong directorial debut. Again, it takes place over the course of a single day, which adds some tension as he tries to get that money to help his family. So that is really well executed as well. I thought this was really great. and it's gotten a lot of, it's had a really fantastic festival run. I think Akronola's nominated for a BAFTA. Yeah, it's really resonated with a lot of people, which is beautiful to see.

1:12:51Yeah, I think it's really, really splendid. And watching it, I was really struck by it. I don't know how the fuck they did this. Because I know they went and they shot in Lagos, but it's a period piece. And so I presume they just threw Chopin and these two incredible kid actors. I don't know if anyone saw the M. Beth Davids movie. Don't Let's Go to the Dogs Tonight which only got a release here straight to streaming essentially a month and a half ago but there's an amazing kid performance in that, the central kid performance like the seven year old girl who wasn't really an actor and these two kids reminded me of that they're so real and I can only imagine that Akinola just dropped these actors into the hurly burly sometimes of what feels like a real Lagos market and just went, okay I'm going to hide the cameras and you're going to go around and interact with people.

1:13:42And obviously, there's going to be some scenes and some actors. But that feels to me like what he did. I don't know exactly if that's what he did, but it feels to me like that. There's such real feracity to what's going on. And there's an emotional, real emotional kick also at the end. There's a scene which takes place at the scene. It's very Moonlight-esque, actually, which is really powerful and beautiful. And Shopey DeRizu, I've been a fan of his for a long time. This, I think, is career best work for him. Very vulnerable. unpacking the layers of this character. And yeah, I hope this sort of propels him onto bigger and better things as well.

1:14:17Indeed. Four stars then. We gave this one four stars then for My Father's Shadow. Let's stick with you, Amon, for The Chronology of Water, which is Kristen Stewart's directorial debut, named by an arthouse movie generator. Clearly, what is The Chronology of Water? So this is actually based on a memoir of the same title by Lydia Yuknovich, who is the character that Imogen Proust plays. And yeah, she had a difficult life, shall we say. The film opens on a stillbirth and then the film proceeds like the memoir to zip through her life in non-chronological, non-linear order. So it goes through her childhood, adolescence, motherhood and also the discovery that she's a good writer which is what led to the memoir, which is what led to this film.

1:15:08Kristen Stewart, this is her directorial debut. She's made some shorts before, but it's a feature directorial debut. Sometimes when you do that, like an actor becoming director, they could go for something which is a little bit safer than what Kristen Stewart has done here. It's very bold. She has jumped into the deep end. And you know what? She's swimming. She has the source. there's a lot of bold direction to this that brings the authorial voice of the memoir to life and what I mean by that one of the passages in the memoir Lydia writes I remember things in retinal flashes so like I said it's all non-linear so at times we get quick cuts to various moments in Lydia's life there's dialogue overlapping with each other the editor whose name is Olivia Neergard Holm does incredible work piecing all these various things together.

1:16:07So just on a sense of bold direction, I think it's incredible. Imogen Poots, she's long been a fantastic actor, but she is fearless, go for broke, very extreme performance, but she absolutely nails it. Honestly, it's worth going in for just her performance alone. She is utterly incredible. Are you saying worth the price of admission alone? I'm saying worth the price of admission alone. I'd love to buzz you for that. Yeah, she's great. And she wasn't in the Oscar conversation, which is maybe a bit daft. I don't know. Yeah, she is fantastic in this. So the zipping through various elements of her life, I vibed with it, especially the second time around, but I suspect that for some people, because of the messiness of that, it's sort of hard to zero in on an arc for Lydia.

1:17:00but again second time around I found that wasn't an issue for me I just vibed with what it was I liked what it was put in down so yeah Kristen Stewart she has the sauce I hope that she goes on to correct that is a chronology of water of course it goes from water into sauce that's how that's how water works alright we also gave this one four stars I think spoiler alert everything's got four stars this week except for our next movie 100 Nights of Hero yeah Yeah, this is an odd little fairy-tale beast, really. So this is written and directed by Julia Jackman, and it stars Micah Munro as a very chaste, pure, law-abiding young woman called Cherry, who is married, has a lady-in-waiting hero who is Emma Corrin.

1:17:51And her husband's friend, Manfred, played by Nicholas Glitzin, comes to stay in their house, and he basically makes a bet with the husband that he can seduce Cherry. And if he wins, he gets to keep their castle, their home. And she will, of course, be killed. And she is not, because it's a very misogynistic world that they live in, and it's basically ruled over by a misogynistic god called Birdman, not that one, who is played by Richard E. Grant. It's a whole mythologically complicated film, this. anyway um so she just she basically has to resist the advances of he-man himself um for the titular hundred knights and to do this a hero makes up lots of stories to try and distract him from his pursuit of her mistress um and so it's a kind of sheheradza thousand and one knights kind of a setup basically because she tells a story about these three sisters in order to distract them from his quest.

1:18:51One of them is played by Charlie XCX. Anyway, so look, it's weird and wonderful and you kind of have to get on its wavelength and go with it. It's a very feminist fairy tale from literally soup to nuts. This is like a feminist reimagining of a Thousand and One Nights kind of a thing. Maybe it's because none of that seemed unusual to me that I was a bit like, well, I feel like I've seen this before. but it does have some cool little you know just twists of design it's got a real point of view it's got a real voice it's got great people in it you know good performances it's all just quite mannered and quite arch and you have to sort of get on it's wavelength so I liked it but I do think three stars is right I don't think it's a four Agreed.

1:19:38Alright three stars in for 100 Knights of Hero and Jimbo we started with you talking about Dylan O 'Brien we might as well finish with you talking about Dylan O 'Brien and Twinless. Can't go away from him this week. No, but this is a slightly twisted black comedy. This is written, directed, and co-starring James Sweeney, who did it straight up back in, I want to say, 2019. And this sees Sweeney as Dennis and Dylan O 'Brien as Roman, and they are two men who meet in a kind of support group for bereaved twins. And they strike up a bond and instant friendship, and their relationship grows. They become ever so slightly codependent, but it becomes apparent that both men have secrets.

1:20:15which eventually all come tumbling out, and it makes things very, very awkward. Now, on one hand, it's kind of a sweet look at mourning, right? So O 'Brien's Roman is dealing with his grief over his brother Rocky, who's died, and his guilt over the state of their relationship when he died. But also you've got Dennis, who has obviously suffered a loss, and he has somewhat odd behaviour. So it's not the kind of, like, on the face of it, you think this is like a sort of friendship triumphing over grief kind of story, but it really isn't that because it is supremely awkward at times. And Sweeney's Dennis is not just odd.

1:20:53He is deliberately played to be supremely unlikable and he really kind of leans into that. But he's unlikable to everyone except Roman, which is kind of a bold move. It takes some, I think it's fair to say, interesting turns. So you will want to go into this cult, which I think is slightly more difficult by the fact that it came out in the US, I want to say like about three or four months ago. So do avoid reading stuff about it on the internet. Really nicely written. There's a couple of really nice split screen sequences, in particular one at a party where they both go their separate ways. I really loved that.

1:21:21I thought that was really well put together. So that's, but I think honestly the two performances were what stuck with me because Dennis is like, he's spiky and as I say, he's quite unlikable. And I think it's really interesting how they play with you as an audience, how you feel about him when you start to understand that character slightly better. But O 'Brien I thought was fantastic in this because he's this seething cauldron of rage and resentment and guilt and neediness and vast insecurity over his own self-worth. He's really good. He is really, really good in this. I really enjoyed that.

1:21:54So it's kind of great. Also, he speaks simlish, which is unusual in a film. So I quite enjoyed that. Probably a first in cinema. I don't know, but it might have been. So it's kind of a weird, dark little film. It's blackly amusing, if not laugh out loud funny, but I quite enjoyed it. We gave it four stars. I think Aisling, Fancius, as Marcy is really, really great. There's a high-pitched voice and bubbly energy that she initially has. Although she's always funny. There's one scene early on where Dennis is asking her if he should go somewhere. And she vocally says yes, but everything about her body language is saying no.

1:22:32And that did amuse me a little bit. But slowly but surely, she sort of becomes a more three-dimensional character with her own agency, almost in the background. I love how they did that she's great so yeah props to her as well I think Dylan O 'Brien week the inaugural Dylan O 'Brien week has gone really well I look forward to next year yeah Mays runner triple bill anyone? let's not go crazy alright so there we go four stars aim for Twinless and on that what was that noise? what was that? not me is it Dylan O 'Brien in this room? it could be oh my god so on that note that is it for this week's Empire podcast to join us next week for more film-related fun.

1:23:13We'll be joined by Emerald Fennell, writer-director of the very faithful, I hear, adaptation of Wuthering Heights. But until then, until we meet again, until that auspicious occasion, it's goodbye from my three colleagues of such lethal cunning. Goodbye, Amon Warman. Peace. Peace be unto you, my friend. And you see, there's a whole make love not war thing again. You see? It's all coming back. It's goodbye to Helen O 'Hara. Toodaloo. And it's goodbye to James Roger Legend. I am legend. You're not an ordinary person. Yeah, that nickname's not going to work. I'm sticking with it. It's gone. Subscribe, it's gone.

1:24:01It's gone on the TV podcast. No, you've doubled down. That's absolutely it. It's not going to happen anymore. anyway it's goodbye from me I'm off to join my castmates on SNL Live I cannot wait for that show to take off this could be my ticket out of here see you later guys thanks for listening bye bye