The Evolution Of O'Horror (ft. guests Amanda Seyfried & Mona Fastvold)

5:17James Dyer:Cheese Goblin I'm not going to be

5:19Mona Fastvold:a Cheese Goblin a Cheese Gobbler none of those things It's not the sexiest No it's not it's not the best I'm thinking because bear in mind whatever this is I'm adding it to my Hinge profile so I really do need this to sell me in a good light Please

5:29Amanda Seyfried:Please do Please The Cheesy Goblin You're going to get some odd matches

5:35Mona Fastvold:I mean I feel this is all more field than it is Hinge Wow

5:39Chris Hewitt:James Dyer is the Cheesy Gobbler Gobble Gobble it's turkey time Oh no Oh, no. That would surely get you a lot of matches on... Was it Twinge?

5:49Amanda Seyfried:On Twinge. Twinge.

5:52Chris Hewitt:When I see James' profile, I feel a twinge. Twinge is the over-50s dating app, I think.

6:00Chris Hewitt:Oh, my back.

6:02Amanda Seyfried:It's one of those deadlifts you were doing.

6:04Chris Hewitt:Mike, do you have a nickname, Mike? I don't think I do. No. Should we give you one? If you have a suggestion. I don't know if I like this. All right. the cheesy gobbler has spoken let us move on to this week's question which comes from Blue Sky once again this is someone who sent in a question last week and I liked it but we already had a question last week and so I saved it for this week and when I say I saved it I mean I lost it oh here it is Daniel Watkins Daniel Le W on Blue Sky give up one movie related thing for Lent because we are in the middle of Lent Helen as a Catholic, we know all about that.

6:44Chris Hewitt:Helen, do one minute on Lent now. You can't hesitate like I just did or deviate or whatever else they do in that show. One minute on Lent. Go now.

6:55James Dyer:I lost the belief in Lent and with it, a lot of my belief in organized religion. When I discovered at the age of about seven on entering a small supermarket with my mother, that sweets were still stocked during Lent. And that made no sense to me because, of course, everybody gave up sweets for Lent, right? That was my belief.

7:15Chris Hewitt:She is repeating repetition.

7:17James Dyer:I'm allowed to say Lent again. And I was outraged because I thought, well, hang on. I thought this was what we all did. You had to give up sweets for Lent. And upon learning that that was actually voluntary, and I had been giving up sweets when I did not need to give up sweets. There's a lot of sweet repetition as well.

7:34Mona Fastvold:We've uncovered some trauma. Do you want to lie on the couch?

7:37James Dyer:I gave up on religion, really, at that point. She's so close. She's got 10 more seconds. What I'm saying is Lent is nonsense, unless you fancy cutting back on something.

7:47Chris Hewitt:Helen has denounced Catholicism right here on the Empire podcast. She's blasphemes for a full minute. I have lured her into my trap. I've been sitting there for years. Would you agree, Helen, the Protestants are the best? All right, Mike. So the question from Daniel the W is, what movie-related thing could you give up for 40 days? Could you, first of all?

8:07Amanda Seyfried:movie related thing.

8:08Chris Hewitt:Could you abstain? Could you give up

8:11Amanda Seyfried:horror movies? Horror movies, Mike. I could not. I would do about as well as Helen did with sweets, apparently, as a kid, if I tried to give up horror.

8:17Chris Hewitt:When did you last see a horror film? When did I last see a horror film? Scream 7.

8:21Amanda Seyfried:Seven! Seven! About 24 hours ago. That's about as long as I can go, Chris. What would I give up? I could give up. I would give up trailers, watching trailers for 40 days and 40 nights. You know?

8:32James Dyer:That seems easy. I feel like that's when you give up

8:35Amanda Seyfried:a cop out. That's when you give up

8:36James Dyer:a specific chocolate bar but not the rest.

8:38Amanda Seyfried:Yeah, it's like when you give up vegetables. It's like me saying I'll give up dime bars.

8:41James Dyer:Yeah.

8:44Chris Hewitt:Giving up trailers. I judge you. Hells Bells? I mean,

8:49James Dyer:I could give up the MCU for 40 days. Fuck off.

8:54Chris Hewitt:Sorry for what?

8:55James Dyer:How dare you?

8:57Mona Fastvold:Helen, I think Chris is about to declare you excommunicado.

9:00James Dyer:But like then, you know, you have a comeback and you...

9:04Amanda Seyfried:She's still here. I'm clicking my fingers frantically.

9:05James Dyer:And you watch all the films again before Doomsday comes up.

9:08Chris Hewitt:You go for longer than 40 days without watching something MCU, right? If you go for longer than 40 days, the pleasure when you watch an MCU movie is immeasurable.

9:16James Dyer:Oh, no.

9:16Amanda Seyfried:I haven't watched an MCU film since Endgame. Like, that was the last MCU I watched. I shouldn't be in this room, should I? If you seem ready or not, start running now.

9:26Mona Fastvold:I'm not even kidding. I'm to run and hide.

9:31Mona Fastvold:Wow. Jimbo, why would you give up? Well, you know, films. so you wouldn't make this any difference yeah it'd be like you giving up Dime Bars I'd just stop watching films completely and only watch TV that's what I'd do

9:42James Dyer:I don't know okay but you're not allowed to mentally replay Aliens or Dime Bars

9:45Chris Hewitt:oh come on

9:46James Dyer:no you're not allowed to think about them

9:48Chris Hewitt:Helen Pyle's criteria upon top of criteria I've noticed this she's shifty she is shifty

9:53Mona Fastvold:yeah like what would I

9:55Chris Hewitt:what would I struggle to give up like if you yeah because I I don't think I've watched an MCU film in over 40 days you know that's

10:03Mona Fastvold:that's just something that do you know what because obviously the point of Lent is it is a period of kind of like penance so you do have to go up with something that you like you can't give up I should say vegetables I can't give up for example arthouse films because honestly I think I would have to

10:17James Dyer:you'd have to go on right this is one thing

10:20Mona Fastvold:I would have to give up mainstream cinema that would have to be my sacrifice I give up mainstream cinema I can only watch things that have limited release in no more than say 30 cinemas nationwide oh yeah you know I'd have a maximum budget of I don't know like 900 quid or something. That would be student films. Anyway, so you know what I mean? But I'd have to set parameters which would keep anything, you know, blockbuster-y, commercial, out of my arena. That's what I'd have to do. God, it'd be the worst month of my life.

10:49Chris Hewitt:I don't know. It's a really tricky question because I couldn't give up

10:52Mona Fastvold:watching films for 40 days because it's my job. Yeah, this podcast would be interesting.

10:58Chris Hewitt:I mean, yeah. I couldn't give up talking to people about films because it's my job.

11:05James Dyer:It's my job. Could you give up wearing film-related t-shirts for 40 days?

11:09Chris Hewitt:Of course I could.

11:10James Dyer:Do you have the washing? Do I have...

11:12Chris Hewitt:Do you own other things? Do I have the... I mean...

11:15Amanda Seyfried:Is Helen just throwing shade at your fashion? Do you have anything else, Chris, you can wear? She's coming in hot today.

11:20Chris Hewitt:I am wearing a Tommy Lee Jones t-shirt. I cannot sanction this preferring. Right now. Yeah. Procured for me by Jeremy Dillon, occasionally of this parish. Thank you, Jeremy, for that. And yeah, you know what? I could, and I wouldn't miss a beat.

11:38James Dyer:All right.

11:38Chris Hewitt:I wouldn't miss a beat.

11:40Mona Fastvold:But what would you, like, let's be honest, from a watching capacity, if you had to give up a thing, because you could totally give up Marvel movies for a month, because let's be honest, they don't come out that often, so we could re-watch them all the time. That was my workaround, really. So you could totally do that. I don't sit and re-watch them. That would have to be like a real sacrifice.

11:59Chris Hewitt:In terms of things I watch? Well, something that, you know,

12:02Mona Fastvold:that means a lot to you that you would struggle to be parted from? If you take original Law & Order from me,

12:08Chris Hewitt:I will pry the eyes from your skull. Maybe some TV shows. I am loving Law & Order right now. I work from home quite a lot and I've fallen into a routine where I work until about 1 o 'clock and then I make myself lunch and I sit down and there's a Law & Order marathon on 5USA, Channel 141 on Sky, every single day. OG Law & Order. So the good shit with Jerry Orbach as Lenny Briscoe and Sam Waterston when he was Jack McCoy. He wasn't the DA then when they sidelined him a little bit. He was the ADA, principal crusading ADA fighting for what he believed was right. Which a lot of the episodes I've been watching recently has been the death penalty.

12:50Chris Hewitt:He's been fighting to execute a lot of people, which doesn't sit well with me. But anyway.

12:54James Dyer:Fun story. Law and order has a measurable effect on juries and makes them more likely to convict.

12:59Mona Fastvold:and CSI had a measurable effect on juries as well because they put a greater weight on forensic data

13:04James Dyer:extremely trouble

13:05Mona Fastvold:that aside I mean it's a great show and I'm loving watching it I was going to come at you for your resistance to all peak TV and your insistence on watching old things but actually we were having a discussion on the Pilot TV podcast today about precisely this that these kind of network procedural shows there's something A quite comforting about the formulaic structure

13:22Amanda Seyfried:of them it's quite reassuring

13:23Mona Fastvold:which is why a lot of people love SVU in particular but also it's the kind of TV that if you are doing other things and you drift off for a while,

13:32Amanda Seyfried:it doesn't really matter.

13:34Mona Fastvold:Yeah.

13:34Amanda Seyfried:Yeah.

13:34Mona Fastvold:It's quite a nice palate cleanser from the pasty stuff. Which is why they're so popular because also, like, they're standalone, right? Because they're completely episodic. So if you miss a series, three series, or in Law & Order's case, 20, 25 series, it's absolutely fine. Pick up what you're left off.

13:47Chris Hewitt:Spoken like someone who does not watch Law & Order. Hey, I've seen Law & Order UK. I've seen Law & Order UK.

13:54James Dyer:I just put on the first episode of Boston Legal. so good Denny Crane Denny Crane

14:00Chris Hewitt:Denny Crane so good great show but Talk of Law and Order brings us neatly onto our second question this week which comes from SBC1972 on Blue Sky which film set around courtrooms would you least want to be a juror in you can disregard that objection overruled sustained which is it oh boy which you can just maybe you can do which you'd like to be a juror in, or least, and which would you happily attend just for the drama? Helen, who trained to be a barista.

14:36James Dyer:Oh, God. Barrister. Get this. So, to kill a mockingbird, maybe I could sway the jury in the right direction and convince them to be less racist and return a verdict of not guilty, which the accused in that film definitely was not guilty.

14:53Chris Hewitt:So you would use your powers as a juror?

14:56James Dyer:I would attempt to do so, yeah.

14:58Chris Hewitt:Would you be a rural juror?

14:59James Dyer:I would be a rural juror.

15:01Chris Hewitt:This is exciting.

15:03Amanda Seyfried:This is real good. I don't think mine would be as moral as that. I think I'd like to be something like a few good men just to watch them yell at each other. Just to get a front row seat. There's no jury in that one. There's no jury in that. Twelve angry men then, you know? That'll be a fun one. Just any one where there's angry men.

15:16Chris Hewitt:I want men to shout at each other in front of me.

15:20James Dyer:Twelve angry men's an interesting one because that's a really unpleasant looking jury room. It's really hot. They're all really miserable.

15:26Amanda Seyfried:They are having a terrible time, aren't they?

15:28James Dyer:On the other hand, like being juror number eight would be pretty cool. But you'd have your work cut out for you.

15:36Chris Hewitt:Yeah.

15:36James Dyer:But it'd be pretty cool.

15:37Chris Hewitt:I was, when I was in college, I was in 12 Angry Men. I was juror number four, who is, I think, I believe E.G. Marshall in the Sidney Lumet film.

15:46James Dyer:Okay.

15:46Chris Hewitt:And he is like a very reasoned, very intellectual guy because he went for me. I slicked my hair back. Good boy. Wow. I had a lot more hair back then. And I slicked it back and I put on some glasses. And I adopted, now I realize this has not aged well, but I adopted a Kevin Spacey-like aspect for the role. Wow. Because I thought cold, intellectual, you know, I'm going Spacey. So I went Spacey. You never go full Spacey.

16:14James Dyer:It was a different time.

16:16Chris Hewitt:It was a more innocent, joyous time. but a juror number three or which is the Lee J. Cobb angry role that's a good one as well and of course juror number eight is a Henry Fonda role those are the three biggies I think he says put himself up the cast list probably fourth or fifth build but I think I think people really come away from it going juror number four I like that guy that's not what I would say but Jimbo

16:42Mona Fastvold:what would you go for? I don't even remember what the question was the question was

16:44Chris Hewitt:which jury would you not like to be on or like to be on not like to be on. Or like to be on. It's entirely up to you.

16:50Mona Fastvold:So many things. I'd like to be on the jury for Primal Fear. Oh. I feel, I feel, I would like to experience that twist in person. But you wouldn't. But the jury doesn't know. The jury doesn't know. The jury doesn't know because it all happens afterwards.

17:03Chris Hewitt:Well, they do get to see him kind of cycle up. Yeah, Roy out. And he lost time.

17:10Amanda Seyfried:Yeah. Oh, it's so good. Mike, any more before we wrap this bad boy up? Courtroom dramas are not my forte.

17:17Chris Hewitt:I can't think of any of this. What if it was Freddy Krueger on trial? Would you like to see that trial?

17:22Amanda Seyfried:I'd love to see that.

17:22Chris Hewitt:He never got his day in court. I know.

17:25Amanda Seyfried:So unfair. So unfair.

17:27Mona Fastvold:Also, the song doesn't go up to 12. It stops at 10. Just saying. One, two. One, two. Jury number three is coming for you. I don't know. Minority report. Minority report. Because you get to have the trial before the crime. Saves time. Efficient.

17:45Chris Hewitt:Really good idea, isn't it? that system's not flawed at all as seen in the hit movie Minority Reports

17:51James Dyer:like don't build the torment nexus

17:54Chris Hewitt:don't call it a torment nexus maybe don't do that but

18:00James Dyer:the one I mean another one that would be fun would be Runaway Jury right?

18:03Chris Hewitt:yes that was the one I was going to say that is a good one I fucking love Runaway Jury I don't know Runaway Jury Runaway Jury great film John Cusack Rachel Weisz Rachel Weisz Dustin Hoffman and Gene Hackman amazing they have a great scene when they're in the bathroom being angry at each other and they're pointing at each other as only Hoffman and Hackman can do and it's based on a John Grisham novel and John Cusack plays Nick Easter I know this movie too well and he he gets onto a jury deliberately so he can tamper with it and sell the verdict to the highest

18:41Mona Fastvold:and prove that he controls the jury yes nice

18:44Chris Hewitt:Nice.

18:45Mona Fastvold:It's real good.

18:45James Dyer:It's real good.

18:46Mona Fastvold:Love that.

18:47Chris Hewitt:I love a Grisham.

18:48Amanda Seyfried:That's what, yeah, and you know, angry men pointing at each other. Like I said, that's what I want.

18:53Chris Hewitt:Hackman, Hoffman, pointing at each other.

18:56James Dyer:That's what we want. You cannot get much angrier than that, can you?

19:00Chris Hewitt:Helen, if you were on a jury, would you have been swayed by Nick Easter? Do you think?

19:05James Dyer:I probably wouldn't have needed to be swayed. Slash would have been thrown off that jury for being openly left-wing and anti-baggones. You wouldn't have got through the jury selection process. I don't think I would have got through selection. Unless I pulled a Nick Easter. I wouldn't have got through unless I pulled a Nick Easter and hid all of my viewpoints about everything.

19:25Mona Fastvold:Yes, because you would find that so easy, Helen.

19:28James Dyer:I know, right?

19:31Chris Hewitt:I'm a very subtle person. Are there any great courtroom drama scenes in horror films, Mike? No.

19:39James Dyer:Does anyone get...

19:40Chris Hewitt:Oh, well, Oh, Ghostbusters 2. Does Ghostbusters 2 count?

19:42Mona Fastvold:Does Glary Brothers 2? Ghostbusters, yeah.

19:45Chris Hewitt:The Exorcism of Emily Rose. That is a courtroom thriller, isn't it? Are you checked? Yeah.

19:52Amanda Seyfried:Out of order. But no, I guess they skip a lot of the sort of legal... Can't imagine why.

19:59Chris Hewitt:I think it's an interesting unexplored terrain, right?

20:02Mona Fastvold:People should sue more slasher killers.

20:05James Dyer:No, but Chris had a great idea once for... Shut up. No, one time, Chris had a great idea for a horror sequel that would basically pick up with the hero survivor of the first film being put on trial because he's the only person still standing and they would obviously think he did it because it was actually a supernatural entity.

20:22Mike Muncer:Yeah, yeah.

20:23James Dyer:So, like, there's a lot of horror movies where, I'm sorry, the final girl or whoever would immediately be arrested. Absolutely. They turn up covered in everybody's blood, probably holding an axe or a knife in their hands, just as the police come up at the end.

20:38Chris Hewitt:With some nonsense story about demons. Exactly. You know, deadites. Oh, yeah, I cut my girlfriend up with a chainsaw. My fingerprints are all over that chainsaw. Yeah, of course. But it wasn't me. She was possessed at the moment at that time by a Kandarian demon.

20:55James Dyer:Yeah, and also it wasn't me doing it. It was my disembodied hand, not my real hand.

21:01Chris Hewitt:And how did you summon this demon? I played a tape cassette that I found. you would absolutely you know Ash for example just to name one he'd be looking at 25 to life man one

21:12Amanda Seyfried:yeah he'd be screwed man one he'd be screwed

21:16Chris Hewitt:oh boy

21:17Amanda Seyfried:back to law and order again have you seen Red Rooms the French Canadian film from a couple of years ago no that is a really scary horror film courtroom drama really that's the only one that springs to mind what happens in that oh it's really it's really really dark but it's essentially a trial of a kind of serial child murderer and there is a woman who is kind of obsessed with obsessed with serial killers and true crime and she kind of finds a way to sneak in and watch the trial and then dark stuff starts to happen involving her and her obsession with serial killers it's very very good I would massively recommend but that one springs to mind as a kind of good really genuinely scary courtroom film

21:57Mona Fastvold:horror film is The Exorcism of Emily Rose frightening? yeah I thought some scary

22:03Amanda Seyfried:contortions

22:04Chris Hewitt:that's the main thing

22:05Amanda Seyfried:I remember that's scary it did a fucking

22:07Chris Hewitt:number of me that movie absolutely did a number of me I was awake bolt upright all night long after watching that movie

22:15James Dyer:at 3am 3am

22:16Chris Hewitt:3am came 3am went and I was like oh no nothing's happened okay I can go to sleep now but no it really did a number of me I've told Scott Derrickson

22:24Amanda Seyfried:this

22:25Chris Hewitt:it's delight but yeah oh god what if you had like a movie where they were putting the devil on trial and there was a jury that could call it The Devil's Jury. Lovely.

22:37Amanda Seyfried:I've been watching, going back to like slightly naff network TV shows, I've been watching that show called Evil. Have you heard that? You know,

22:44Mona Fastvold:you say naff, it's one of the better procedurals out there.

22:45Amanda Seyfried:Okay, well, yeah. I mean, it's because it's made by the Good Wife people, isn't it? Yes. The Good Wife, but with demons and devils and exorcisms and stuff. It's great. Yeah, it's fun. I've been enjoying it. Luke Cage himself. Yeah, he's great. And that is definitely one of those shows that I've been happy to just sort of half watch every day,

23:03Chris Hewitt:in fact

23:04Amanda Seyfried:which brings us

23:05Chris Hewitt:full circle once again there you go so thank you so much indeed for your questions this week I think we're going to go somewhere else next week we're going to go away from blue sky I'm not quite sure where yet it might be our discord channel it might be the subreddit it might be twitter it might be instagram keep them peeled on my socials and I will let you know where to send us questions for next week's show oh I still have to tell you guys about how I nearly stepped on Florence Pugh's dress but we've got to move studios We've got to move studios. We'll be back in two seconds with the news section.

23:38Chris Hewitt:That's exciting. And then Florence Pugh's dress. Okay, we are back, but in a completely different studio. Shall we talk about some movie news? If we must. Let's do it. If we must. If we must. If we must. I do insist upon talking about movie news on this movie podcast. So I guess there's only one place to start, and that is with the BAFTAs. the Baptist took place at the weekend. Now, obviously, we're aware of the incident that happened at the Baptist this week involving John Davidson, the inspiration behind I Swear, and onstage presenters Delroy Lindo and Michael B. Jordan, and of course, in the audience, the production designer of Sinners, Hannah Beachler.

24:19Chris Hewitt:All we're going to say is that it was an awful situation for everyone involved and our hearts go out to everyone involved. Yeah.

24:28James Dyer:I think people should have been immediately apologised to and comforted and were not. And I think broadcasts went out that should not have gone out.

24:38Chris Hewitt:The BAFTAs themselves, let's talk very quickly about the results on the night. Did anyone watch it? Did anyone pay attention to it? I must confess I didn't.

24:50Amanda Seyfried:I sort of half watched it. Yeah. One eye open. One eye on what was going on. I mean, generally, I think it was fairly predictable, right? You know, obviously one battle after another, taking best film. I think it's deserved.

25:03James Dyer:One of six awards that it took.

25:05Amanda Seyfried:Yeah, one of six awards. I was really pleased. Obviously, I'm a big fan of Sinners. I was really pleased for Wumi Musaku, who won for that. I think he won Screenplay 2 as well, didn't he? And Score. I was going to say, and Score. So I was thrilled that Sinners picked up a couple of awards. Three, yeah.

25:21James Dyer:And I think, yeah, I think it was pretty much, you know, what people predicted for the most part. You know, Jesse Buckley as well. I guess the big surprise, if you like, of the night was Robert Aramayo getting lead actor for I Swear. Helen, you

25:37Chris Hewitt:say that, but if anyone had been listening to, I believe it was Absolute Radio over the weekend, they would have a bright, young, up-and-coming film journalist on there talking about predictions for the BAFTAs, and that person hedged their bets wildly and said that Robert Aramayo might win Best Actor.

25:59James Dyer:Well, that person really did a good job there. Look, I do disagree. It's a fantastic performance, and the reason it isn't in the running at any of the other awards is because it hasn't come out in the US, right? The film isn't out until in theory April. We'll see if events of this week change that. But it's a... I thought that was great, because I think he's a lovely person, and it's a brilliant performance, absolutely off the charts, and it was delightful. So that was a real...

26:28Mona Fastvold:Also, dude, it's Lord Elrond.

26:29James Dyer:It is Elrond as well, I know.

26:31Amanda Seyfried:It was lovely when he was just looking out at the other nominees as well, you know, because the people he was up against, Timothy Chalamet, Leonardo DiCaprio, Ethan Hawke, Michael B. Jordan, and Jesse Plemons. Like, that must have been quite a moment for him.

26:42Mona Fastvold:The thing is, he's brilliant, but when he went up, he had big competition winner energy, and it was incredibly adorable. But also, it's like, dude, you deserve to win. You were amazing. So, yeah, enjoy that moment. Exactly.

26:56James Dyer:And my beloved Hamnet, you know, won Best British Film, which I'm happy with. If we're going to split up the awards a little bit then great. I'm glad I got something.

27:06Helen O'Hara:Nothing was massively surprising.

27:08James Dyer:Maybe Stellan Skarsgård not taking Best Supporting Actor for Sentimental Value which did win Best Film, not in English but he didn't win Best Supporting Actor that went to Sean Penn. Who wasn't there. But that's maybe the biggest upset question mark of the night.

27:24Amanda Seyfried:Do you think this is I mean obviously apart from Best Actor Do you think this is how the Oscars are going to go with these sorts of results?

27:32James Dyer:Broadly, maybe. I can still see Sinners doing a bit better than at the BAFTAs. I think Sinners should pick up some more at the Oscars.

27:40Chris Hewitt:It looks like Jessie Buckley's got it in the bag, and she's brilliant in that movie. But having now seen Rose Byrne's performance in If I Had Legs, I'd Kick You, I'm like, that's the one. That should be it. Because there's such a breadth to that performance. There's so many dizzying highs and so many contrasting emotions from scene to scene. Yeah. Whereas you could argue that the Agnes character in Hamnet is relatively...

28:08James Dyer:But you wouldn't because that would be foolish. I wouldn't. With me right here in the room, you wouldn't argue that.

28:14Amanda Seyfried:She'll take your eyes out. I wonder if that film, if I had legs, I'd kick you, is almost just too hard for Academy voters. It's so stressful. It's so stressful.

28:23James Dyer:And it's so... In her face and in your face. Oh my God.

28:26Amanda Seyfried:Yeah, you feel like you can't breathe watching it, right? It's amazing.

28:30Chris Hewitt:All right, enough about the BAFTAs. What else has been happening in the world of movie news? Mike, has anything been happening? We do have a trailer for the Back Room.

28:38Amanda Seyfried:Toy Story 5.

28:39Mona Fastvold:Toy Story 5. Terrifying.

28:42Amanda Seyfried:Toy Story has its scary moments from time to time, actually. Don't knock it. It does. But there is a trailer for the Back Rooms movie, right? What was that? A24 made.

28:52Chris Hewitt:And it was kind of a sort of a kind of online kind of creepy pasta turned game experience type thing.

29:00Amanda Seyfried:This kind of like analog horror creeping around these sort of dark corridors and things pop out at you. And almost a little bit like that Silent Hill PT kind of demo spin-off. It's got that kind of a vibe. It's being made into a film. So I don't... That reference was lost on everyone here except me, by the way. Oh, okay. Well, there you go. I'm glad somebody got it.

29:18Chris Hewitt:But yeah, I think it's going to be interesting.

29:21Amanda Seyfried:I don't because obviously that's not a heavy sort of narrative type of a game or situation so I'm imagining it's going to be a very vibes-y movie it's weird

29:29Mona Fastvold:I'm not familiar with the meme that sort of gave birth to this but many people are and have been quite excited about it the director for this who I believe is now 20 was I think 19 when he made this film which makes me feel A. old and B. like an underachiever yeah

29:44James Dyer:very much well I mean to be fair most people we meet make us feel old and underachievery but yeah Yeah, it's kind of like if the Film4Productions logo came to life and was made into a film. That's right, yes. It looks very creepy. I'm also impressed by the sheer gumption of their poster, which is basically just some wallpaper, and not particularly attractive wallpaper, with almost invisibly at the bottom, in really small letters, the back room.

30:12Amanda Seyfried:Yeah.

30:13James Dyer:So, yeah.

30:14Amanda Seyfried:It could be infuriating and pretentious. It could be kind of Skinner-Ink-esque, or it could be really, really scary. I don't know. It could go one way or the other judging by that poster and that marketing at the moment, you know?

30:25James Dyer:But yeah, exciting. Yeah.

30:27Chris Hewitt:We shall see. I mentioned Toy Story 5. There was a trailer for it. It broke after we recorded last week's podcast. Of course it fucking did.

30:37James Dyer:Of course it did.

30:38Chris Hewitt:Hellsbuzz, did you watch it?

30:39James Dyer:I did, yeah.

30:40Chris Hewitt:It's a big Andrew Stanton stan?

30:42James Dyer:Yeah, I like Andrew Stanton. I think this is an interesting one. I kind of don't know where you go with it. So the idea is here that basically there's a new interactive screen toy called the Lilypad that all the kids want and all the kids are on all the time. So they're not really playing with toys per se anymore. And so what do the toys do? And they all, in this case, they all panic and they radio Woody and they ask him to come back and help. It seems.

31:07Chris Hewitt:Where is he?

31:07Amanda Seyfried:Where is Woody?

31:08James Dyer:He's been off on his own adventures. Yes. It's a Toy Story 4, you see.

31:11Amanda Seyfried:He no longer has an owner, a child, essentially, right?

31:15James Dyer:So it's kind of like, that's an interesting premise. I do worry that there's kind of no happy or even bittersweet ending. Because, yeah, they do seem to be on their tablets.

31:27Amanda Seyfried:That's where it's going, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's true.

31:30James Dyer:So Greta Lee voices Lilypad. She seems quite antagonistic early in this film, but maybe the whole film will be about kind of bringing her around and bringing her into the circle of toys. I don't know if they have a name. They do act like a gang sometimes. The toy circle. The Toy Circle. That sounds wrong.

31:49Chris Hewitt:The Toy-Luminati?

31:52James Dyer:It's not, we're going to have to work on it, I don't think.

31:55Chris Hewitt:It's not quite working. Are you guys excited about this? I mean, yes, Andrew Stanton.

32:00James Dyer:James.

32:02Chris Hewitt:James, this is an audio medium, James. James is shaking his head.

32:07James Dyer:If you were going on something for Lent as a sacrifice, it should be animated films. Nothing but animated films. Oh, that's right. He has to watch.

32:16Mona Fastvold:I 100 % give up animated movies for Lent. No, no, you have to watch nothing but animated films. Art house and animation. Oh, my God.

32:22Amanda Seyfried:And ideally art house animated films. Yes.

32:24Chris Hewitt:Waltz with Bashir morning, noon and night for you, my friend.

32:28James Dyer:Exactly. The red turtle.

32:30Chris Hewitt:What is this? Persephone? Yes, it fucking is. Persephone is, damn it, I got that wrong. Damn it, I fucked myself.

32:38Mona Fastvold:I appreciate the gag. Thank you. Yeah, no. Just no. Well, because like Toy Story 2 was wonderful. Toy Story 3 was even better and then they did Toy Story 4 and I feel like this might be like a Return to form Right like the new Dexter series a way of kind of putting right what once went wrong like it ended on a sour note so actually maybe they can use this to redeem it and sort of retcom it

33:02James Dyer:Turn it into a Haribo sour Yeah

33:05Mona Fastvold:Sam Beckett style

33:06Chris Hewitt:What do you mean what went wrong? Toy Story 4 was a delight I really liked it

33:11Mona Fastvold:It had forky You do like horrors so you know Yeah

33:15James Dyer:It was okay. It was no Toy Story 3. It was weak sauce.

33:20Chris Hewitt:Mike, mound an impassioned defense of Toy Story 4 immediately. I can't, I can't.

33:24Amanda Seyfried:No, I remember having fun with it, but I don't remember much about it other than they were in a sort of charity shop and there were some creepy ventriloquist dummies. Keanu Reeves is in it.

33:32James Dyer:Keanu Reeves is in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

33:33Amanda Seyfried:Forky, Forky. Forky. Okay, well, Forky was a great character, right?

33:39James Dyer:Totally hell. Not good enough, I would suggest.

33:42Chris Hewitt:He's got loads of spin-offs. I know, they're cute. There you go. I rest my case, Your Honor.

33:48James Dyer:Yeah, that doesn't make the original film cute.

33:49Chris Hewitt:Okay. We shall... Yeah, it was shit. I have folded as well myself. Okay. I'm mildly excited about this. Every day it's Christmas Eve. Every day it's Christmas Eve. It might be wonderful.

34:04James Dyer:Yes. Did we talk last week about the Venom animation plans?

34:08Chris Hewitt:We didn't. Venom. What Venom?

34:10James Dyer:Another treat for James.

34:11Chris Hewitt:Pretend, Helen, for a second, I've paid no attention to anything that's happened in last week. Spunk is dead. Long live Spunk.

34:18James Dyer:That is essentially, yes, what we're talking about.

34:22Chris Hewitt:Cartoon Spunk, isn't it hentai?

34:23James Dyer:Oh, no. The Hollywood Reporter is reporting, as is their want, that in Hollywood, Sony are trying to bring back Eddie Brock and Venom in an animated movie. and they have Final Destination Bloodlines directors Zach Lipovsky and Adam B. Stein attached to direct and produce.

34:45Mona Fastvold:Yes, it's true.

34:46James Dyer:So, yeah, so maybe Spunk lives on in animation.

34:52Chris Hewitt:Yeah. I'm too expensive for life action, AD!

34:55James Dyer:I mean, yes, but also, you know, Spider-Verse movies exist and they're fucking incredible. They are fucking incredible. So, maybe some of their incredibleness will rub off on Venom.

35:06Chris Hewitt:Into the Venomverse. Lepofsky and Stein won a lifetime pass from me for Final Destination Bloodlines I also love that they're not just doing the next Final Destination movie because that would have been the obvious thing for them to do instead they're doing all sorts of other weird shit instead good on them good on them good on them cash in those chips boys they've God knows they've worked long and hard

35:28Amanda Seyfried:to get where they are they did that amazing sort of zoom call prank thing right they did those guys that set fire to their house and everything it was amazing

35:35Chris Hewitt:do you guys know about this? how they got the gig on yes

35:38James Dyer:oh yes yes yes yes their fake swim call

35:41Chris Hewitt:they talked about it on the podcast but where one of them was decapitated by a fan a ceiling fan not like well see snipes it was which would have been a twist it really would fairness but yeah really good stuff anything they do is good for me hey do you know what else is good for me

36:02James Dyer:what's that

36:02Chris Hewitt:martin scorsese ooh

36:04James Dyer:he's good for most people

36:06Chris Hewitt:Yes, he is making another movie. It is called What Happens at Night. It stars Leonardo DiCaprio. No. Yes. And Jennifer Lawrence. They're going to be a couple, a married American couple, who travel to a small, snowy European town to adopt a baby. And this week the cast was, the ranks were swelled or swollen, whatever the word is, by Jared Harris. ooh yeah

36:37James Dyer:ooh that's a tasty combo

36:38Chris Hewitt:that's the Jared who gets that reaction when you say

36:41James Dyer:yeah we were all kind of like

36:43Chris Hewitt:oh god another Jared would have got a kind of ooh but this gets a ooh it's Harry Seldon Chris

36:50James Dyer:yeah it is that's a Foundation reference oh don't worry about it I was like

36:55Chris Hewitt:is that his name in Chernobyl it's unlikely that's his name in Chernobyl no it's not okay that's Foundation yeah

37:00James Dyer:that was Foundation yeah

37:02Chris Hewitt:alright well that's exciting good cast Mads Mikkelsen and his incredible hair. Patricia Clarkson and her incredible hair are also going to be in it. Scorsese going to direct and produce. And the script's been written by Patrick... Whoa! Patrick Marber.

37:16James Dyer:Ooh! Oh, wow. Oh, that's just like 10 out of 10 on paper. Yeah.

37:20Chris Hewitt:Peter O 'Hanrahan himself. This is amazing.

37:25James Dyer:That's exciting. I'm in. I'm on board.

37:27Chris Hewitt:I love when I make a reference and James, it just dies. I look at James and he's like, no, I don't know what that is. The day-to-day. The day-to-day. You ever see the day-to-day? No. It's a comedy. You would not like it. I don't do comedy. You were too busy gobbling cheese, no doubt. That's going to stick. That one's going to stick. Anything else you want to talk about?

37:43James Dyer:I do want to mention quickly that there is going to be a film adaptation, apparently, of Lincoln in the Bardo.

37:48Chris Hewitt:Yes, I saw this.

37:50James Dyer:Which is a Booker Prize winning novel that I haven't finished reading, but I'm gonna now.

37:54Chris Hewitt:I have read the Wikipedia entry about it, and it sounds really good.

37:59James Dyer:Yeah, I mean, the bit I've read has been incredible. What's exciting is, as you might expect, Lincoln is a character in it and is going to be played by Tom Hanks. Super here for that.

38:11Chris Hewitt:Woody himself.

38:12James Dyer:Woody himself, yes. So it's about Abraham Lincoln following the death of his young son from typhoid. He's a grieving father and interacts with the living and the dead in a sort of way to kind of process his pain. So it's basically kind of Lincoln talking to ghosts. Wow. Yeah.

38:30Chris Hewitt:It is exciting. It is very, very exciting.

38:33James Dyer:I'm going to finish the book now because I'm hyped. And this is being directed by Duke Johnson, who co-directed Anomalisa. Oh, cool.

38:41Mona Fastvold:Oh.

38:42James Dyer:Kind of art house cred. James would love it.

38:45Chris Hewitt:For my new Lent viewing schedule. Exactly. Yeah. All right. That's enough of the movie news for one week. Time now for this week's guests. Yes?

38:54James Dyer:Yay.

38:54Chris Hewitt:Yes, yes, yes. It is a double whammy. It is a director-star combo. I like doing these in the podcast. Not very often you get to talk to a director and an actor, lead actor at the same time. and talk about their relationship and their working relationship together and all that jazz. That's a different movie. And this week's director-star combo is, slash R, depending on the correct grammar, Mona Fastfold, who is the director of The Testament of Anne Lee and the actress playing Anne Lee, Amanda Seyfried. And apparently it is Seyfried. I've seen a number of interviews with Amanda Seyfried. I always thought it was Seyfried.

39:29Chris Hewitt:I thought it was Seyfried. Well, there we go. I think it is Seyfried. and I'm pretty sure I've seen her say that herself in interviews and being introduced on talk shows well she would know in that way you would think right but here's the thing what if the way that you think your surname is pronounced is not the way your surname is pronounced it might be Munker Mike Munker we don't know

39:48Mona Fastvold:well isn't this the whole point that Shuti Gatwa said that he's been pronouncing his own name wrong his entire life because his mum recently corrected him really amazing I love that because the N is not silent apparently he always thought it was

39:58James Dyer:he'd always been telling people it was so it's not

40:00Mona Fastvold:in Shuti Gatwa yeah And he didn't know that. That's amazing. It's kind of cool.

40:06Chris Hewitt:Wow. That's amazing. Helen O 'Hara?

40:10James Dyer:Sure. Yeah.

40:11Chris Hewitt:O 'Hara. Yeah.

40:13James Dyer:O 'Hara. O 'Hara. That is my Halloween name.

40:15Chris Hewitt:It is, yeah. Helen O 'Hara. Evolution O 'Hara. Are you going to do a spinoff, Mike? Evolution O 'Hara? Absolutely. Helen, let's talk. Helen O 'Hara is the lesser-known Biffy Clyro song, by the way. Don't get it. Laughed anyway. I appreciate that, Chris. Thank you for your charity. I recognize it was meant to be funny. You know, you know, there's moments in the podcast where I say something that is clearly funny and you just give me nothing back?

40:38Mona Fastvold:I know why you laugh. See how I was generous to you there? Yes. Ha ha ha, Chris, please feel free to take that and cut it in whenever you say a joke. This fucking cheesy gobbler, I don't know. Anyway,

40:49Chris Hewitt:what if your surname is pronounced like, what if you're Deerer? Right? James Deerer. And what if I'm Chris Heewitt? Because I do bring the wit and I am a he. I mean. So, okay. Anyway, so this film is a testament of Hanley. and this is a film that is it almost defies description it is a musical biopic of someone that you probably have never heard of but someone who is a fascinating figure so Anne Lee was a very very notable figure in the shaker movement the shaker movement are people who are so dedicated to worshipping God that they abstain all thanks to an intercourse and they go a bit celibate-y don't they and this is a tale of Anne Lee who was born in Manchester then moved to America with her brother played by Bill Pullman's son, Louis I'm sorry, Bob Bob Pullman and it unfolds and there are things in this movie that I never thought I'd see to be quite frank it is a very, very ambitious very, very bold musical I was really, really taken by this movie and I jumped at the chance Desartes Seyfried and Fastfold who by the way was also heavily involved in The Brutalist and her husband is Brady Corbet and I think that comes up in this conversation

42:06James Dyer:he co-wrote this one

42:07Chris Hewitt:he co-wrote this one as well and she co-wrote The Brutalist so look at that Division of Labour synergy that is nice isn't it they were in great form love talking to them here we go do please enjoy Mona, Amanda welcome to the Emperor Podcast how are you both? good good good good excellent before we talk about the film which is an amazing amazing film an amazing achievement I've noticed I'm sure you guys have noticed as well there are people walking around here with t-shirts with your names on it yes

42:32Mike Muncer:at the moment

42:33Chris Hewitt:how does that make you feel does that make you feel weird or

42:36Mike Muncer:I'm just trying to keep it keep it for my mom keep them away from my mom yeah no I think it's I it's called Girls on Top right

42:44Helen O'Hara:Tops

42:45Mike Muncer:Girls on Tops yeah I keep saying Top as well

42:48Helen O'Hara:it feels different than Tops

42:50Mike Muncer:yeah Girls on Tops yeah

42:52Helen O'Hara:yeah it's lovely it's like a nice this nice thing to you know lift up female filmmakers and film workers it's great. It's a fantastic company. But it's funny to have your name on a t-shirt Yeah for sure.

43:04Mike Muncer:Yeah.

43:05Helen O'Hara:I mean it's less funny for you because you were like you've been in franchises I'm sure there's like pillowcases with like Mamma Mia or something. It doesn't say Amanda Seyfried on it.

43:13Mike Muncer:It feels very personal. That's true. Yeah it's a character.

43:15Helen O'Hara:It's different.

43:16Mike Muncer:Yeah it's weird the idea of promoting yourself personally is very conflicting.

43:21Helen O'Hara:You do have a lot of like I mean I think the idea is that through history there's been a lot of like um you know you create icons out of male filmmakers it's a lot of like icon building and i think it's the idea is to try and do that with ladies but then we're way too humble so we're just like oh god please don't talk about why does it feel different to have your face

43:42Mike Muncer:to have your name as was your face because when i see people with my face it's kind of funny yeah like i wear my own fate t-shirt from the housemate of me screaming i wear all the time because it's a funny shirt and I like the colors. But seeing your name is different. So yeah, it's like, I don't belong there.

44:00Chris Hewitt:So you wouldn't necessarily wear one with your name on it, but would you wear each other's t-shirts?

44:04Mike Muncer:Oh, yeah, I'll wear monas. For sure, I'll wear monas.

44:06Chris Hewitt:Yeah. All right. Well, there's loads there. I'll go and grab you a couple. There are? Oh, there's loads. I've got loads. Yeah, absolutely.

44:13Helen O'Hara:Which one are you going to wear? They don't have my size. Oh, boy. You know what?

44:18Chris Hewitt:They've only got large and I'm extra large.

44:19Helen O'Hara:No, I don't believe you.

44:20Chris Hewitt:Yeah, I'm a little tight.

44:22Helen O'Hara:pretty much. Mona Fastwell a little tight. It's going to be great on you. Yeah, it'll be a little tight

44:27Chris Hewitt:if I just go for the last. Yeah, but just like pot tight. Yeah, absolutely. I'll do that. Anyway, should we talk about the film?

44:32Helen O'Hara:Sure.

44:34Chris Hewitt:Let's talk about the film. We've got a t-shirt with Anne Lee's name on it. Can you talk about your first meeting and when this working relationship began and blossomed for you? I know, Mona, that you had been obviously working on the movie for quite a while. At what point did Amanda come into your head and what was our first meeting between the two of you like?

44:54Helen O'Hara:Oh, it was graduate. So we've known each other for a really long time.

44:57Chris Hewitt:Okay.

44:58Helen O'Hara:Gosh, I think we met, like, we were in our 20s when we met, like early 20s. So... We have a mutual friend. Yeah. Okay. So we, but we didn't, and I got to direct Amanda on a television show. And, you know, I always loved your work, But I guess I knew you more from comedic roles than dramatic roles. And I think that it sort of all clicked when we started working together for me. Yeah. When all of a sudden I saw we had some really very dark, really challenging scenes where she was just digging into some. some and and it was also you were playing an academic so you had you had challenging texts that was kind of like long speeches and monologues so i and i feel like i was like all of a sudden the combination like getting to see that and then also how the ease of our work relationship it was tim for me it was you know sometimes you work a long time to try and find the key into an actor and trying to figure out like how can I support you?

46:10Helen O'Hara:How can I be your first audience member? That really, you know, because that's really what you are. You're sitting there behind the monitor. I'm like, I'm the first spectator. And I'm just here to sort of try and guide, try and help you to do your, give your best possible performance. And sometimes that's tricky. Sometimes you just, you know, it takes time with you. I felt for me, it felt immediate, like that it was very easy to act for us to communicate and to access to see, you know, I could say one or two things and it would be click into place. So I, for me, it was the sum of all those things that seeing these sort of more, seeing this more sort of dramatic, darker, deeper, older, you know, in my mind, you were still, you know, 21.

46:59Helen O'Hara:one so i was like oh she's all like she's actually the right age to play this role and she has this dramatic depth and and she's an incredible singer and mover um so it was all those things and i just asked her i was like can you do accents and you were like definitely i remember that was the last thing i checked on that was the meeting i was like do you do how are you how are you with that

47:22Mike Muncer:it was on the we're on the phone because i was at the farm and i was like pacing and i was like i was like yeah yeah i mean okay are you sure but it felt very like she was committed to that idea already and i was like okay well she's she really thinks that i can do this and i probably can i just have to like wrap my head around it um because it's a lot of work and i like to do a lot of work but the idea of a lot of work sometimes is depending on like the time of day

47:54Helen O'Hara:and you're like and and i was just like budapest oh yeah i don't go no i pitched it poorly i was like overseas you're gonna go we're gonna shoot it in hungary you're gonna have to leave your farm it's gonna be really hard work the budget's gonna be super tight you know none of the comforts of you know of big budget productions will be available to you uh your trailer will be really physically intense yes so physically intense hard accent yeah but i was like but there's going to be animals everywhere yeah and there were and she was right i was right so amanda did you weigh it up

48:28Mike Muncer:do you have like a scales going oh animals no it wasn't that hard i think i i i know what she does is is um you know she she she gets pretty close to the impossible and she like jumps off and i think that when you follow someone who's that brave you become braver yourself it just it's It is life-affirming for sure, and I knew that I was going to have that kind of experience. I knew that I had to just trust. And, you know, playing a character like this is a very rare and rare opportunity, too, because Anne Lee is just an enigma. Like, you know, I think what an amazing experience that's coming to me to play such a, lack of a better term, strong-willed, you know, humanist, you know, who should be an icon from the 18th century.

49:28Chris Hewitt:Did you know much about her?

49:29Mike Muncer:I didn't know anything, no. I didn't learn anything about her in American history. I mean, nobody really knows about her except the people who found out about her through weird avenues, just like you. Like, you found out about her through a song. It's just, unless you're really looking hard, you're not going to find her.

49:47Chris Hewitt:So did you go off on your own journey to find Anne, or what was the communication like during prep as you were?

49:55Mike Muncer:Oh, I mean, my journeys I did separately were all technical. We're all very technical, and I didn't really ever go off. I was always either with Celia, Ralson Hall, our choreographer, learning the moves, who also lives pretty close to me upstate, which is very convenient, or on the phone with Mona or on set with Mona, other sets, or at Mona's house or whatever. And I knew RDP really well. I was working with Daniel Blumberg on Zoom all the time. We were in different studios, recording different songs at different times, way before we got to set. We shot for two days up in the Shaker Museum in Massachusetts, like eight months before we got to Budapest.

50:38Mike Muncer:And we just had all these experiences. Honestly, they all added up to full knowledge when you got onto set. And everything, you know, her and Mona's interpretation of Anli is Mona's interpretation of Anli. And so I held fast to that.

50:58Chris Hewitt:The musical numbers, for want of a better phrase, in this movie are unlike anything I've ever seen. And Amanda, there are moments in this where I'm always fascinated by actors and how much they're in control of their instrument during sequences like that, where Anne is lost in this reverie. But at the same time, you have to be absolutely precise in your movements. How difficult was that? And did you ever get lost in a reverie yourself?

51:25Mike Muncer:I probably did. There's room for it, though, within the movement. Yeah, okay.

51:30Helen O'Hara:Because the movement is not supposed to be perfect. Well, that's the thing. So in Beautiful Treasures, the three different versions, you want to talk about that?

51:37Mike Muncer:Well, that's the thing. It's like my intention was so clear at that point. I knew the movements at the back of my hand at that point because I'd done it so much. And there were three different places that we were shooting from, three different places in Anne's life, like when she's freshly in love and when she's freshly pregnant and then when she's lost her babies and every time after she loses her babies. And so I just got to explore that song. You know, I left nothing. There was nothing left to explore. And that's rare. But it is, you get lost every time. And if you don't, I mean, but you also get lost in a way that's just, you are just connected to everything you're supposed to be connected to as the vessel and because I had so much time to prepare every take I was able to experience something new as an actor it's great, it's very rare but Beautiful Treasures and Hunger and Thirst too I understood the intention

52:52Chris Hewitt:was that tricky because the camera is right in your face no no because there was also you know

52:56Mike Muncer:the camera operator and i had been working together for months together on a tv show and and it was like we we moved perfectly together really there's so much work that went into preparation that went into the camp like the the relationship between the camera and me and

53:13Helen O'Hara:it was later in the schedule too and he had been part of rehearsals with us as well so both our cinematographer and our operator would come in and you know i would bring them into dance rehearsals so that we could they could they have to practice the movement as much as as you have to

53:29Mike Muncer:be in it you have to feel like you're in it when you're in like it's really important and not no

53:34Helen O'Hara:and no one for no one to really anticipate one another because that's what you're really trying when you're doing performers doing movement and then the camera is is is doing movement as well Ideally, you want there to just be unity in the timing of that rather than one anticipating the other, especially not the camera anticipating the movement because you really want it to feel driven by it. Yeah.

54:00Chris Hewitt:I think you also have something like All This Summer where that is, I'm guessing, just so precise because you're cross-cutting between different times of the year and each cut blends perfectly with the next.

54:12Amanda Seyfried:so that must have been a nightmare to make or was it quite it was hard well it was smaller than we

54:21Helen O'Hara:thought well not than i thought you guys just ignored my i had i had you know i had gone there had measured it it was very it was the camera angles were extremely precise as to where i could put the camera and what would work for for the shots on this boat and i also as i had and there was many things that were not movable it's like this coil of rope has to be there it's a security thing this is a real boat and this thing is you know this is another thing that this big thing poly thing that can't be moved so i taped everything up in the dance studio and i was like this is your parameters this is where the camera is and my choreographer was like cool cool great no no problem let's do it and i would just watch rehearsals and i would just see you all just dancing on top of my tape disrespecting it completely and i'll be like god damn it then we get on the boat in sweden and and uh celia is just like well this isn't gonna work you know this is a nightmare you guys were absolute complete um rubbish uh for the first rehearsal it was a disaster as i was just like sweating watching you thinking this is this is i mean what are we going to do here and then we just started making the the movement smaller um but really still precise and then we rehearsed and we rehearsed and we rehearsed and then you guys were wonderful and great we had so much fun and in the very the last the last version we did with big rain towers um uh off to the dock as a boat was docked and we we didn't i couldn't afford a big crane because um budgets um and uh in so in the end we ended up rigging the camera off the tower um which is a crazy thing to do but um uh the the beauty that happened in that final couple of takes in the rain was that finally because their clothes were just way down in water and you were wearing this leather coat that just became incredibly heavy all of a sudden the movement was just beautiful it was truly that was my favorite that was our favorite movement take because the the pull the gravity sort of pull of the heaviness of these period costumes were just like yeah it really made the the movement so beautiful and you were exhausted it's a good

56:39Mike Muncer:it's a really good metaphor for what they were going through like no matter what no matter the the way the world was structured at that time they were gonna they were gonna you know um they were going to get through it and they were going to prevail. And with that batting down rain, that incredible downpour, we just were just, you know, something else was happening for us and it was cool. It looked cool. It felt cool.

57:09Chris Hewitt:Did you get that sense of what it was going through? At that point, did you were snatching victory from the jaws of defeat as the sequence went on?

57:19Mike Muncer:I guess we were all like, fuck you look at us go us I'm like no fuck all of you we're still dancing look at us like it was kind of like we're like a punk band for a second yeah it's like

57:33Chris Hewitt:let's do the show right here

57:34Mike Muncer:get it on it did feel a little bit like that yeah amazing

57:40Chris Hewitt:I'll tell you in a second but Mona at what point did the idea because you almost stumbled upon Anne Lee right in discovery in her and this concept of the shakers and celibacy and what they stood for. At what point do you think, okay, yes, this is someone whose story I need to tell, and in this fashion as well?

58:03Helen O'Hara:Well, it was a long process. You know, I think when I first discovered one of the draws to the story for me beyond just the sort of the aspects of the story that's, you know, her feminism, her radical thoughts around community inequality um to me her story is just so deeply cinematic and i'd wanted to do you know i'm my background is in dance and movement and so i um for me going into a project i could really explore modern dance and movement and and then continue my collaboration with daniel blumberg who i worked really closely with on the world to come which was his first score. So for me, just deepening, though, that sort of the collaboration with Celia Rousenhall and Daniel, and it was all of those aspects.

58:54Helen O'Hara:And then it was just something that felt really, I think I was so excited to take, I felt a deep need and want that was just felt almost like it's sort of a possession. And I was possessed by this urge to take this story that was forgotten in history and then give it this like freaking like epic treatment. Yeah. I wanted it to feel like this grand, you know, piece of sort of like Americana, Hollywood-ish sort of feel to it. So I was like, we're going to do John 35. We're going to have these massive matte paintings and big sets and we're going to cross the ocean. We're going to burn shit down. and somehow doing that felt really subversive with this character instead of saying I'm going to tell this little story about her a day in her life or something very like you know minimizing which so often happened with female historical figures I was like I'm going to give her this unknown woman is going to get this epic treatment of course no one else thought that way so you know it was incredibly hard to raise the money for the film and in the end the budget was very was tight but we still just said

1:00:13Chris Hewitt:when Amanda comes aboard that must help as well

1:00:15Helen O'Hara:yeah yeah of course it does but not really they still are like

1:00:19Mike Muncer:good luck girls good luck

1:00:22Helen O'Hara:we had to make it for the similar budget level as the Brutalist but you know there's old tricks that they use in old filmmaking before we had all the tools that we have now So we just utilize a lot of them, a lot of sort of traditional tools of filmmaking, like, for example, matte paintings and, you know, things like that.

1:00:46Chris Hewitt:Love a matte painting. Yeah. So beautiful.

1:00:49Helen O'Hara:Fantastic. I still don't understand what that is. I've talked about it so many times. I know what I like. I can't picture it. You can, though.

1:00:56Chris Hewitt:It's just because you're from the green screen era. It's basically. Everything gets pumped in afterwards.

1:01:01Helen O'Hara:Yeah, so we basically, you know, I photograph the hillside. You're standing right there in front of it. And then that, you know, I shoot that on 35. That image goes back to my painter, Lito. He hand paints Manchester, the whole city behind you to that picture, matching the light, matching, you know, mimicking our lens. We shoot that on 35. we marry that with vfx with our image and then i work with a vfx artist as well to animate few little bits and pieces of it like birds like birds that i bring in for example like i bring real birds from another shot maybe put that in and have they fly across the screen or that has blown my mind i'll have little you know one little person you should have had a cow flying i do have i did bring a cow a flying my own cow that i put in and made smaller and put in so it's a combination of old filmmaker techniques like the matte paintings combined with you know the use of modern vfx and to me the combination of the two is really beautiful and special amazing

1:02:14Chris Hewitt:amanda you're i watched your brain get blown in real time there that was that was that was amazing you looked troubled for a while it's just a lot of work it's amazing i love i just love something that's tedious yes i think it's it's so it's so amazing to watch it kind of grow and become

1:02:29Helen O'Hara:something everything in this film is is inspired by the that sort of idea of shakerism where where it's all handcrafted yeah it's made in a sustainable way it's made with thought around sort of um you know very um it's dedicate you know thousands of hours to hand making something and making it special.

1:02:50Chris Hewitt:Okay, that was Mona Fastfold and Amanda Seyfried and if you're looking for more interviews our new spin-off show The Interviews the latest episode of that is up and it features in-depth conversations with Rose Byrne the aforementioned Rose Byrne her incredible turn in If I Had Legs I'd Kick You Nev Campbell talking about Scream 7 hey if you want to hear more Nev Campbell she's on Mike's podcast. Yeah, you can watch it

1:03:14Amanda Seyfried:on the Evolution of Horror YouTube channel. Yes.

1:03:17Chris Hewitt:That's exciting. Good stuff indeed. Is that the Hello Sydney podcast?

1:03:21Amanda Seyfried:And it is also on the Hello Sydney podcast, yes.

1:03:24Chris Hewitt:God, Mike, I'm plugging stuff for you. I know. Honestly. Chris, thank you. I get nothing.

1:03:29Mona Fastvold:Mike, do you regularly plug the Pilot TV podcast on Evolution of Fire? If not, I really should. Can you please give that up for Lent? Absolutely not. I think Jesus would want me to do it. I think Jesus would fucking hate the Pilot TV podcast. I mean...

1:03:47Chris Hewitt:I respectfully disagree. I think he wrote a review, right? On the comment section. Father, forgive them. They know not what they do. Wow. Anyway. Shall we talk about movies now? There's only one place to start. And that is Scream 7. Obviously. Mike. Yes. Horror is evolving. Oh my God. That Scream is still going. 30 years.

1:04:13Amanda Seyfried:30 years since Scream 1996. I know, it's wild. It's crazy, isn't it? So obviously this is... Thank you. No, no, no. Thank you. This is the seventh entry in the franchise. Obviously, the last movie we got a few years back, Scream 6, was missing Nev Campbell, Sidney Prescott. But she's back in a big way in this movie. So it very much kind of focuses on Sidney and what she's been up to. This movie is directed by Kevin Williamson, who obviously kind of conceived the story for the original. he wrote the original movie he wrote the first two I think he wrote Scream 4 he wrote

1:04:50Chris Hewitt:some of Scream 3

1:04:51Amanda Seyfried:Scream 3

1:04:52Chris Hewitt:a little bit but there was

1:04:53Amanda Seyfried:Aaron Kruger kind of rewrote it really and then he was not really involved in 5 and 6 so I think for a lot of the fans particularly of the original films this is very much kind of bringing the series back to its roots because we've got Kevin Williamson at the helm and we've got Nev Campbell very much in a starring role again really kind of the biggest role she's had in a Scream movie probably since about Scream 2, I think. You know, because I think in a lot of the other sequels she's kind of come and gone almost as sort of like extended cameos almost. She sort of turns up in the final act. So yeah, we meet Sydney Prescott.

1:05:28Amanda Seyfried:She's now living in a new town. She's got a teenage daughter who is called Tatum, named after the Rose McGowan character from Scream 1. She's played by Isabel May. And wouldn't you know it, there's a ghost face killer on the loose. Oh my god. Dabbing and slashing his way through various different teen characters and people in Sydney's life. This movie kind of, again, very much plays on the sort of nostalgia and harking back to kind of the ghosts of Sydney's past as well. There are some, and I won't spoil anything about this, obviously, because I think so much of it is about the mystery and not giving too much away.

1:06:03Amanda Seyfried:But I think it has been revealed in a lot of the marketing that various actors from previous movies who have played characters that are dead also make appearances in this movie as well.

1:06:14Chris Hewitt:So David Arquette, who had played Deputy Dewey Riley, is in this movie, as is Matthew Lillard, who played Stu in Scream 1 back in 1996.

1:06:25Amanda Seyfried:So it's having a lot of fun playing on nostalgia. It feels like it's very much made for the fans, this one. generally I really enjoyed it I think it's got some great sort of tense horror set pieces there's a great scene that again you kind of get hinted at in the trailer involving Sydney and her daughter kind of being stalked within the walls of their house which I think is a great little scream set piece it's very stabby it's got some pretty gnarly gore in it as well and I think if you're a scream fan you're generally going to probably have fun with this movie it never reaches the heights of the early films of Scream and Scream 2 but I kind of don't feel like any of the movies since then have done that I think Six has Six is a lot of fun but I would say they're all kind of they're all kind of three star movies post Scream 2 and I think this one is very much the same I think it is like solid fun Kevin Williamson I think is better at the character stuff than he is at the horror and I think this is a great movie it's a great vehicle for Neve Campbell it's a great Sidney Prescott movie I don't think maybe it's as good a horror film

1:07:37Chris Hewitt:as Scream 6 Sidney Prescott or should we say Sidney Evans lovely Welsh surname there

1:07:43James Dyer:yes because she's married to Joel McHale's Mark Evans so the Mark wasn't the Mark from Scream 3 that she was married to

1:07:51Chris Hewitt:now it's Mark Kincaid

1:07:52James Dyer:I feel cheated but anyway whatever anyway I pretty much agree with Mike I am a wimp, so I was scared through a lot of this. I found some of the kills quite gory. I mean, Scream's always been very bloody, but not always very visceral in the literal sense. I feel like you get quite a lot of viscera here. But I did find the set pieces pretty effective. What I find a bit less effective was just the plotting, which we won't get into until we get into the spoiler for the most part. But I will say that there's just some moments of, you know, Obviously, the traditional scream elements of who done it, who can we trust, you know, the sort of...

1:08:32James Dyer:Everyone's a suspect. Everyone's a suspect, getting them in the room and having those conversations. There was none of the really, like, let's discuss the rules of a horror movie kind of stuff this time. And I get maybe why you have to move away from that because it's been done and done and done. But at the same time... That's kind of what it's thing is. It's a part of screaming.

1:08:49Mona Fastvold:Can I ask a question about that? When did they move away from the Metanus?

1:08:54Helen O'Hara:With this movie, essentially. With this movie, essentially, yeah. because hilariously,

1:08:57Mona Fastvold:not only have I not seen this, I have not seen any Scream since Scream 3. We did a movie marathon. We were going to do Scream 1, Scream 2, Scream 3, and I think it was the week before the Scream 4 press screening. And we did the movie marathon and I never saw 4, I never saw 5, I never saw 6, and I haven't seen 7. Wow. I'm not going to break this streak. I'm never watching another Scream film. So I genuinely don't know the answer to that, but that's an interesting thing. So you've given up for Lent. Yeah, I've given up Scream for all Lents from now until the end of time.

1:09:22James Dyer:It's not that it's bad. I just felt like it wasn't quite as sharp or as crisp as I like my screen movies to be. I thought there were some moments of sentimentality which felt unscream. I mean, obviously, there's always been friendships. There's always been people who care about each other. There's been love stories. But actual sentiment, I find a bit out of place.

1:09:40Amanda Seyfried:Yes. It goes a bit Dawson's Creek almost or something, doesn't it? Yeah. Now I'm in. You've got my dental now.

1:09:47James Dyer:And, you know, nothing against any of the cast. I thought they're all good. they're all you know there's not all of them have very much to work with but i thought isabel may as sydney's daughter was actually pretty good and they have a quite nice sort of spiky relationship and i enjoyed lots of that i just felt like there were really good actors in here especially among the young cast who got nothing to do and i would have liked maybe a little bit more room to breathe for some of them so yeah i think like three yeah i think for a lot of fans particularly fans of the

1:10:17Amanda Seyfried:original who were quite upset that they didn't get Sidney Prescott in six and didn't get much for in five i think there's a lot they'll really enjoy about this movie it really kind of it is really um reverent towards that character and you know um she's the star it's good to have her back

1:10:32Chris Hewitt:and obviously the the making of this movie was beset on all sides by all kinds of fuckery fuckery and i'd love to have an alternate universe ticket to christopher landon scream seven that stars as Melissa Barrera and Jenna Ortega. But the aforementioned fuckery means we were deprived of that. And you can maybe see that this movie was put together fairly quickly and they were moving around some parts and maybe as a result, it doesn't quite hang together as well as some of the previous installments. But, you know, I love Scream 6. For me, this is a step down from that movie. But, you know, gore hounds will be satisfied and then some.

1:11:12Chris Hewitt:So we've given this one three stars, I believe. Three stars for Scream 7. Next up, Helen O 'Hara. I would say Amanda Seyfried is a strange choice to play Stan Lee, but...

1:11:24James Dyer:It's Anne Lee. Oh, don't. But it is about true believers. Hey, hey, hey. Enough said, true believers. Yes, so this is the story of Anne Lee, who was a mother of the Shaker movement. So she is born in Manchester, part of a huge family of kids. It's she witnesses her parents having sex at a young age and is kind of scarred for life by it. Yeah. And has some complicated relationship of her own with her husband, who's played here by Christopher Abbott, and loses her four children. I mean, you can imagine the trauma of that. Oh, my God. And turns...

1:12:00Chris Hewitt:That sequence.

1:12:01James Dyer:That sequence is so upsetting. But she turns to religion, obviously. She's always been religious. She's always felt herself called to God. But she particularly turns to religion after that. and she's experimented with some of the sects and the groups that were kind of springing up in England at that time. This is in the 1740s, 50s. And she finds the Quakers, essentially, and their offshoot, the Shakers, and becomes central to that movement and is instrumental in taking them across the Atlantic to find their church in America. That's the kind of bare bones. There's a lot more to it than that about, you know, the kind of the business, I guess, of religion.

1:12:36James Dyer:In some ways, this is a film that digs into, hey, who funded this religious sect across the sea and why? This is a film that gets into, hey, what is persecution like for a religion? You know, it gets into some of those kind of big questions around the founding of this movement. But it is also about a woman who is very sincere in her faith and is able to carry huge numbers of people with her in that belief and in that faith because she is so evidently sincere in everything that she does. And it's carried through in this film that um that feels very rooted in nature almost like hamnet was um and almost like the brutalist was until it went concrete focused you know um and and it feels uh very very closely observed and then also has this breaking into song and i think i think it's a really clever device because it does sort of take you into the sense of religious ecstasy that they all experience because it is the only ecstasy they allow themselves because the other kind is sinful, guys.

1:13:40James Dyer:But it's kind of trying to communicate that sense of fervor and that sense of almost magical realism that they felt and that powered them to basically set up in the wilderness and try and tame it. So I thought it was really effective that way. I'm not saying these are all pop bangers. These are not going to be breakout hits.

1:13:58Chris Hewitt:These are original Shaker songs from the time. Oh, wow. As well. Oh, I didn't know that. Well done, me. Okay.

1:14:05James Dyer:But I think they're really haunting. And I find myself haunted by this film after seeing it and kind of thinking about it and thinking about it for days after. So it's kind of stuck with me more than I thought it would. I don't know that it always gets into her fundamental psyche. Maybe it's hard to do that because religious ecstasy and sort of a sense of mission is a very alien thing to most people. but it is so maybe you could have gone harder into that but I think I still thought it was really good and I thought it was an incredible Amanda Seyfried performance

1:14:43Chris Hewitt:I'm a bit disappointed that Amanda Seyfried wasn't in the Oscar conversation a bit longer than she probably should have been because she's really really terrific in this we gave it four stars four stars then for the testament of Anne Lee alright next up is a film that we have absolutely unequivocally given five stars to Sirat James. Yes, indeed.

1:15:06Mona Fastvold:That lover of art house. Hey, hey, hey. I am a profound lover of Spanish cinema, as we all know. This is Oliver Lax's film, and it stars Sergi Lopez as Luis. And this film begins, as all good film should, with a rave. Bang in tunes, fat beats, the whole nine yards. Like Blade. Much like Blade, yes. New order, indeed. Confusion, the pump panel reconstruction mix. So it starts with an extended rave sequence. Luis turns up with his son Esteban, and he's handing out flyers. He's looking for his missing daughter. She has been missing for quite some time. He speaks to a number of ravers to try and locate her until he finds someone who says, there's another rave that's going to be in the desert, because this is the Moroccan desert.

1:15:49Mona Fastvold:It's the Sahara, essentially, isn't it? And he said that it's deeper in the desert. There's another rave, another mystical rave. She might be at that one. So when the army come to disperse this illegal rave in the desert, he tags along with a sort of convoy of other ravers to find this other rave where his daughter might be. All of which is kind of narrative set up for a story. Now, that is a story that never actually arrives. And this film genuinely made me feel like an idiot. So I came into the office and I literally said, could someone explain to me Sirat? And the reason why I asked for it to be explained is, one, we've given it five stars.

1:16:23Mona Fastvold:Two, it's been nominated for two Oscars, including Best International Film. It won the jury prize at Cannes. It won the palm dog, for fuck's sake. One of the Palm dogs? Yeah, exactly. Such a good boy. It is Luis and Esteban and their little dog too. And they head off on this sort of, I guess it's like a road to perdition. It really is. But, so surat is an Arabic word and it's for the kind of Islamic concept of this sort of bridge between heaven and hell. And I guess that is as close as a metaphor for this film as you can get. Because as I said, it sets up a story that never really comes.

1:16:58Chris Hewitt:Right.

1:16:58Mona Fastvold:because it is 100 % pure vibes from that moment on. They're just in this weird purgatory of the desert, and it kind of plays out, and the sound is actually incredible. Not just the music, which is all composed by Kang Ding Ray, who is, as I understand it, a purveyor of Fat Beats. Oh, boy. Right. It's on his business card. It is on his business card. But it's literally just the ravers sort of talking and dancing and listening to music, and never really going anywhere and never really doing anything. Like, from a narrative point of view, there is, I mean, it takes a turn. Not so much from a narrative point of view, there is an event, and then there are some other events, which I obviously can't talk about.

1:17:39Mona Fastvold:So from a mood point of view, it goes from, now this is weirdly hypnotic and trance-like and extremely techno, to, oh my God, this is bleak and horrific. But it still doesn't go anywhere. And I had this discussion with Empire's Reviews editor, John Nugent, and he was saying that what this film did more than anything is it made him want to go to a rave. because we should say Oliver Lacks is a, you know, he's really into techno music. He loves raves. He's been to many, many raves. And I think part of it was his attempt to capture the feeling of being at these events. And the music is hypnotic. I have never been off my tits on Disco Biscuits, so I've never really experienced this myself.

1:18:15Mona Fastvold:But a couple of people in the office were like, it really, really got them and made them feel like they were in their early 20s again. So perhaps that's why I didn't understand it. But I found this experience of watching this film Mesmerizing, yes, but also quite hollow because I felt like it was setting up, don't do it, I felt like it was setting up something. I wanted to know, are you going to find your daughter? Does she want to be found? She's an adult, maybe she's missing for a reason. But it's like vapor, it just evaporates. The plot disappears into the air to be replaced with techno.

1:18:47James Dyer:It's like way existential, man.

1:18:49Mona Fastvold:It is extremely existential, and I kind of almost get what they're going for, but I felt robbed of, you know, a story. And I mean, look, it's not going to be for everyone and it definitely wasn't for me. And for some people, it's been transcendental. Like the most magical film they've seen, this incredible experience that stirs the soul and is a joy for the senses. And I think there is definitely an element of that that I can see, but also, no.

1:19:13James Dyer:I don't know about joy. I feel like there's quite a lot of darkness in here.

1:19:17Mona Fastvold:Like the first half. The first half, there's some joy.

1:19:19James Dyer:Yeah, no, the first half. Yeah, but the second half then follows. So the second half is much darker and absurdist, I think, and borderline surreal at times. And really, I genuinely think this is a sort of story of existence and essentially what is the point of struggling on when life is bleak and meaningless at times and bad things happen to good people.

1:19:44Mona Fastvold:I felt exactly like that watching this film. Yeah, but I think that's what it was trying to say.

1:19:48James Dyer:And I think the point is you keep going on anyway because life is the point. And I think that's what the film is telling us. And as such, there were times where I was like, oh my God, turn back. What are you doing? You're stupid people. Stop it. You clearly do not have enough water and oil to cross the desert. There are no convenient supermarkets. Go back. Find a convenient supermarket. But that's not the point of the film, is it? It genuinely becomes an internal journey at a certain point. And I thought it was really powerful that has stayed with me in a month or two since I saw it.

1:20:24Mona Fastvold:It's the first film I've seen in which a dog gets off its tits on LSD. Oh, God, that is so stressful. Yes, it is. It was so stressful.

1:20:32Amanda Seyfried:I thought it was such a stressful experience, particularly the second half. And I mean that in the best possible way. I loved it. I think this is like the first proper five-star movie I've seen this year, I think. You're just rubbing it in now, aren't you?

1:20:44Mona Fastvold:Yes, I didn't understand it, Mike.

1:20:45Amanda Seyfried:But no, I sort of agree with what you mean. It does abandon the story that's set up, and it becomes something very different. I just loved what it became in the second half. I was so tense. I was covering my eyes in places. It becomes this kind of survival horror movie, almost, in its second half. It reminds me of things like William Friedkin's Sorcerer and stuff as well. It's the wages of fear, doesn't it?

1:21:10Mona Fastvold:You talked about the fact that it was like, inspirations for this were as varied as Mad Max Fury Road and The Wacky Races. Right. It was this idea of just trucks going endlessly through the desert. so it almost is like a twisted fever dream that's just been shot there is a bit of Mad Max to it too because it almost feels like we're in some sort of

1:21:28Amanda Seyfried:post-apocalyptic world or something mid-apocalyptic right so there is a world war

1:21:33Mona Fastvold:you get the impression going on something is happening

1:21:35Amanda Seyfried:beyond the sort of realms of what this film shows yeah and so yeah I was very much here for the kind of existential spiritual journey that it took us on but you're absolutely right it's not for everyone it's very much not for everyone

1:21:47Mona Fastvold:it is very much an LSD trip in and of itself so yeah

1:21:51Amanda Seyfried:five stars there

1:21:54Chris Hewitt:and we'll probably win an Oscar not many five star movies defied our panel as much as that one did but it sounds exciting although frankly techno no thanks no I went to Fatboy Slim last week actually as well so this was

1:22:10Amanda Seyfried:very well timed you know it was with a bunch of

1:22:12Chris Hewitt:Gen Xers

1:22:13Amanda Seyfried:how was he

1:22:14Chris Hewitt:was he alright

1:22:14Amanda Seyfried:he was amazing

1:22:15Chris Hewitt:did he do a song he did some songs. He did some songs.

1:22:24Chris Hewitt:Good stuff. Five stars then for Sirat. And last but not least, last but least

1:22:29James Dyer:this week is

1:22:32Chris Hewitt:the bluff.

1:22:33James Dyer:Yeah.

1:22:33Chris Hewitt:You can bluff it, Helen.

1:22:34James Dyer:Oh, I've seen it. I don't need to. Oh, good. Yeah. This is a pirate movie. Swashbuckles.

1:22:39Chris Hewitt:Arr.

1:22:40Amanda Seyfried:Is it R-rated? It is R-rated. That's normally R-rated. When's the last time we saw an R-rated pirate film?

1:22:45James Dyer:So anyway, this comes from Frank E. Flowers, who is a Caymanian director and this was set on Cayman Brack, which is one of the islands, and the Cayman island, obviously. And I just enjoyed that because I've been to the Cayman Islands. I haven't been very many tropical places, but I've been there. Yes, I Cayman, yeah. No, just Grand Cayman, actually. From Star Wars. Anyway, so this stars Priyanka Chopra Jonas, I believe we're calling her these days.

1:23:12Chris Hewitt:I believe we are, yes.

1:23:13James Dyer:As a retired pirate who is living peacefully with her family on Cayman Brack. Her husband is played by Ismael Cruz Cordova. We've had Elrond today. Now here we have another elf from Rings of Power.

1:23:26Mona Fastvold:Whose name we absolutely remember.

1:23:27James Dyer:Definitely remember, but we're just giving listeners the chance to think about it. Elf-rond, I think you'll find. Oh, boy. Anyway, but he gets captured by an evil pirate who I think is meant to be Northern Irish. I think he might be. It's not clear. Who's played by Carl Urban. And he's looking for his lost treasure, which it turns out, wouldn't you know it, Priyanka might have stolen. And his sidekick is Temeraire Morrison. So it's a really good cast. You've also got Sophia Oakley-Green as her sister-in-law, actually, not her daughter. But these good, you know, seafaring folks have to now defend their island and their home against bad pirates.

1:24:08James Dyer:I mean, honestly, some nights that's all I need from a film. And that's good because that's pretty much all this film is. There are some pretty good fight scenes. Yeah. Chopra has been doing her workouts and she is really, really impressive. Chopra Jonas to you. Chopra Jonas, sorry. She's been doing her workouts. She's really, really impressive and though she's very good, she's very committed. I actually thought that, accent wobbles aside, Carl Urban was having quite a lot of fun and I enjoyed him. I didn't think it was bad. I just, like, it's not great. It's not going to revive the pirate movie.

1:24:40Mona Fastvold:It's not.

1:24:41James Dyer:But, like, if it's just Friday night and you've had enough and your brain has already switched itself off, this is the film to watch.

1:24:47Mona Fastvold:It wants to be kind of Jane Wick with cutlasses, doesn't it, really? Like, yeah, I'm thinking she's back.

1:24:53James Dyer:It's a little bit Cutthroat Island-y.

1:24:56Mona Fastvold:It turns out she's like, I mean, it's in the trailer. She's a badass former pirate herself, and she kills the shit out of a whole bunch of people. But it is, I mean, Sirat is obviously very plot-like, but not even funny. This doesn't have that much more in terms of narrative than that did. It's a very, very simple setup, and then there's lots and lots of people getting killed. I mean, the trailer pretty much spells out exactly what this is. Some of the dialogue in this film is actively toe-curling. She's like, you're a criminal. This criminal is your only hope. And then they came looking for Bloody Mary, and bloody is what they're going to get.

1:25:30Mona Fastvold:I mean, that's the level here. It is super cheesy. It is super silly. Some of the kills are quite inventive, with booby traps and whatnot. But ultimately, it's incredibly obvious where this goes.

1:25:43James Dyer:it's incredibly obvious where it ends

1:25:45Mona Fastvold:and it's two hours long so it outstays its welcome it really does there's a couple of really great scenes in it but I was very bored after about the hour mark and it was still going and then you're like oh thank god I'm at the end and they're like no no there's half an hour left because they're going to draw this out still further and it's just like this didn't need that run time a tight 75 and this would have been spot on you best start believing in pirate stories Miss Swan you're in one

1:26:10James Dyer:you're in one

1:26:11Chris Hewitt:I was literally about to do that

1:26:12James Dyer:I was literally about

1:26:13Chris Hewitt:Instead of doing that, I was going to go, you best start believing in shit pirate movies, Miss Chopra Jonas.

1:26:19James Dyer:That's hard. You're in one. That's hard.

1:26:24Chris Hewitt:Two, three, four, five?

1:26:26James Dyer:Fuck it, five stars.

1:26:28Mona Fastvold:I think you got a very generous three stars. A very generous three stars.

1:26:32James Dyer:It's there around the two, three borders, let's be honest. Sounds like a treasure. Perhaps raiding across the border occasionally.

1:26:38Mona Fastvold:Yeah, yeah. It's...

1:26:40Chris Hewitt:All right. three stars in for the bluff and on that note that is it for this week's Empire podcast join us next week for more film related fun we'll be joined by another director star combo Chris what that's right only this time the director is Maggie Gyllenhaal writer director of The Bride exclamation mark and her star the Oscar bound surely surely Jessie Buckley but in the meantime all that remains is for me to say goodbye to my three colleagues of such lethal cunning goodbye Mike Munster goodbye goodbye thanks for coming in thanks for having me I've loved it excellent where can people find you?

1:27:26Chris Hewitt:oh on postcodes

1:27:26Amanda Seyfried:come and find my podcast if you like horror movies Evolution of Horror

1:27:30Chris Hewitt:give people your assassination coordinates Mike

1:27:34Amanda Seyfried:no just come and find my podcast instead Evolution of Horror Evolution of Horror

1:27:38Chris Hewitt:and hey we're doing something aren't we on Friday the 13th? We are!

1:27:42Amanda Seyfried:If you happen to be in London or within reach of London, it's Friday the 13th in March, Friday the 13th of March. Me and Chris and Becky Dark will be on stage talking about the Friday the 13th movies and screening part six, I believe, Jason Lives, as that's its 40th anniversary as well.

1:28:01Chris Hewitt:Second best? Best one? Maybe the best one.

1:28:04Amanda Seyfried:It's top three. It's a fucking low bar. Yeah.

1:28:10Chris Hewitt:so that's very exciting goodbye to the cheesy gobbler himself Tim Jim goodbye James Dyer

1:28:18Mona Fastvold:goodbye Chris I'm of course giving up all mainstream movies I'll be watching Surat exclusively for the next 40 days oh god

1:28:26James Dyer:goodbye Helen O 'Hara toodaloo toodaloo I'm off to see Dracula again

1:28:30Chris Hewitt:you are off to see Dracula are you in fighting James? mmhmm

1:28:32James Dyer:no no she's going with Mike

1:28:35Chris Hewitt:apparently that's alright we're off we're off oh you know

1:28:38James Dyer:he seemed keen

1:28:43Chris Hewitt:James the uninvited cheesy gobbler Dyer Oh such a shame Anyway listen hey All this talk of Dracula Reminds me that I haven't yet finished My story about how I nearly stepped On Florence Pugh's dress

1:28:58James Dyer:Oh and it was a scintillating one Well come closer

1:29:01Chris Hewitt:The thing is you see