The Interviews (ft. Jon Favreau, Joe Dante, Mike Figgis)

27:52It's all fake.

27:56Chris Hewitt:Were you using sort of pioneering VFX techniques on this? Were you refining what had happened before in, say, Fantastic Voyage? picture this this picture was made essentially once before it was made as uh as fantastic voyage which interestingly uh the two the two main producers had never heard fantastic voyage so they thought this was a brand new idea uh and uh but but that picture was done in 1967 or something like that and and the the effects that were available then were uh we had got we had come quite a ways from that and uh so we were a use of completely different techniques uh and um and also a franchise voyage was i'm a big richard fleischer fan but it's one of the few pictures that richard fleischer did that i didn't it didn't land right for me just i'm just didn't quite didn't quite get the combination of making fun of it and trying to be serious and so this is another case where you're making fun of something and trying to be serious but i i think i learned from the stakes that I saw at Fantastic Forage to try to do this a little bit more.

29:05Chris Hewitt:What was your technique? What was your secret to doing that with the inner space? In my opinion, I think one of the keys to the film succeeding is that there are real stakes. So you have the scientists at the beginning being killed and that brings a real emotional impact to the movie and makes the stakes real. So when Jack's being chased, we know that things can go horribly wrong. uh that that's true and uh and ozzy the scientist is played by my usual dp john horror who shot my a lot of my other pictures but didn't shoot this one because he's in it uh and he's he's not an actor i'm talking to steven about what who should play this part and i said you know i should be kind of scientist who he's really absent-minded and he's holding a glass of water and you ask what time it is he turns it over looking for his watch and i said you know who does that john horror and and steven said well why don't you have him do it let's see if he can act and if he and he sure enough and he was perfect for it it's exactly what i envisioned because it was him casting dennis quaid you said at the time he wasn't a big star well he was he was he was a leading man uh he was a leading star i mean he was paul no no it wasn't tom cruise people don't go to the movie just because you know but uh he was the perfect guy for it well he's funny and he has a certain arrogance in real life that you brought to the part to make this guy a sort of a because when he's when he's sashaying into the past the scientists to get into the pod he's he's really um strutting you know he's this he's he's he's quite full of himself and uh and then he is quite a comeuppance when he realizes that he's not inside a rat but he's inside a person The idea that Tuck is in the pod for pretty much the entire movie.

30:54Chris Hewitt:Did Dennis ever push back on that? Because I can imagine a certain type of leading man not wanting to do that. No, I think he knew the job was dangerous when he took it. I mean, he read the script. He knew he was going to be stuck inside that capsule for a while. And all that stuff was, we shot the Marty Short stuff first. and then we shot the dentist so we could play back the marty schmidt stuff in his his monitor uh and uh but but they were always together they even all the time we were up to ilm with shooting dennis marty was there you know sometimes sometimes he wasn't on camera but uh it was it was it was kind of a club you know and and all the actors really were pretty committed to it uh and you know and Meg Ryan, of course, this was like, I think the only picture she had done before this was dangerous.

31:47And Stephen had seen her on a soap opera. Because Stephen used to watch soap operas all the time at this point, because he thought there were a lot of really interesting actors that were just getting their starts on soap operas. And so, he would have them taped, and he would just go through them. And I think that's where he saw her.

32:08Chris Hewitt:There are moments as well where it's just tuck in the pod. So, how did you and he, navigate those sequences those scenes? Well those when he's in the pod we had this slab of sort of body part that was we called it the river of loop and it was outside his window and we would just and it was our roll and so we would roll it to make it look like it was like shooting a car scene but it was an inside body scene and he also a lot of stuff he has to do is to play to the TV because he's watching Marty on the TV. And his reactions are, he knew he wasn't going to always be on camera. It would very often just cut to him during a scene to see what his reaction is to what's going on in the scene.

32:55Like the scene where Bob Picardo is playing Marty Short in Kevin McCarthy's greenhouse. That scene is not about them. But you have to have him in it because he's the one who has to respond to the fact that it isn't working. And it's, I just, editorially, I think it's just a very interesting, because it's so much of fun is juxtaposing what's going on in the different locales. That's a hell of a challenge for you, Joe. Well, I told you it was challenging.

33:26Chris Hewitt:Yeah, yeah. And, you know, there are obviously moments as well later on where you're doing a lot of stuff with forced perspective, which tickles me immensely. that was dennis muran who uh when when they when the bad guys get turned small and have to get in this car chase in the back seat um we used a technique uh that was used in darby ogill little people uh it's called the shafton process and it involves putting the camera on a certain point where if you don't move it uh it will fool itself into thinking that things in the far distance, which are bigger than the things in the front, will photograph as the same size, but then the people will photograph smaller.

34:08So everything that's coordinated between the people in the backseat and the people in the frontseat, they're many, many, many feet apart, but in order to

34:21coalesce the movements, you have to rehearse it a lot. So it becomes like a ballet that every time somebody moves in the backseat, somebody moves in the front seat. And at one point, Meg Ryan slaps Fiona Lewis and knocks her into the backseat. But Fiona was like, you know, nowhere near her. And also there are puppets in that scene. There's some puppets that we do. There's a lot of different techniques.

34:48Chris Hewitt:There's another shot that I wanted to talk to you about. there's a car slash truck chase in which Martin Short appears to do pretty much all of his own stunts there's a shot where he is balancing on a moving car and I can't for the life of me see any wires Joe what happened? Did you come close to killing Marty Short? What happened? No no we did not kill Marty Short Marty's no dummy he wouldn't have done it if she was going to kill him But it strikes me like he's a great comedian. Maybe he was thinking, well, if Buster Keaton could do this, I could do this. I think Buster Keaton definitely came to mind.

35:29Our stunt abrancher was a guy named Glenn Randall, and he had this facility for doing that kind of thing. He worked on Raiders of the Lost Ark. And Marty is, when he's standing on the top of the windshield, he's obviously got a rod up his pants so that he can't fall. uh but then at a at another point he has to he has to he has to go fall off and into the seat and that's so he has to really do that uh and also he's hanging from the truck and the motorcycle comes by and that's really is mark short hang truck uh i mean there there are a couple of shots where it's a double but for the most part it's him because he whenever whenever doubles are used that's when you don't see their face and yes that's that's that's why it's very important to get doubles who actually have the same hair as the person in doubling.

36:19In Westerns, it's so obvious when people are in fight scenes that aren't the same guys and they have different hair. It's like, wait a minute, that's not the same guy.

36:28Chris Hewitt:I'm just fascinated by Marty Short. We talked about what you had seen of his and he had just done Three Amigos. That was his first movie. Did he audition for this? Was this something that you... I don't remember him auditioning. I think it was silly. Mike Fenn, who cast this picture, cast most of my pictures, and was a great casting director. And he was really good at choosing or putting up people that he thought could play the part without having to come in. And we didn't have scenes where Marty and Dennis came in and worked together because why bother? They're hardly in the movie in one scene.

37:09So it was just basically we knew who he was, we knew what he could do, and he wanted to do it. And then, of course, since then, his career has been a very good dramatic act. I've seen him on a bunch of really good stuff where he's dramatic. And, of course, his new show with Steve Martin, I think it's a wonderful program. And I work with Steve, too, and it's just so much fun watching the two of them together.

37:36Chris Hewitt:The movie ends in a very open-ended way. Was there a thought of a sequel at that point? I don't know that it was actually a thought of a sequel. I think it was like, well, it's a possibility. Maybe we could have a sequel. But that wasn't a plan. It wasn't like, let's make a whole bunch of other space. I don't think that was on anybody's mind. But in fact, the ending does leave it open. It's an open ending. And considering the fact that Kevin and Fiona are in a suitcase in the car, I'm sure there's lots of possibilities for what could have happened. On that note, Joe Dante, it's been an absolute pleasure.

38:12Chris Hewitt:I'm going to let you go, sir. thanks Chris thanks for your time okay that was Joe Dante talking about Inner Space wonderful movie from a wonderful director if you haven't seen it check it out if you have seen it before it's time to check it out again it's available now in limited edition 4K UHD in stores both physical and online oh and one size fits all last but not least we walk down another memory lane with another director 31 years ago the English filmmaker Mike Fegas wrote and directed and composed a score for leaving Las Vegas a dark love story that garnered Oscar nominations for Figgis and his stars Elizabeth Shue and Nicolas Cage with Cage ultimately winning Best Actor for his incredible portrayal of an alcoholic screenwriter determined to drink himself to death in Las Vegas.

39:00Chris Hewitt:Now the film has been released in remastered 4K UHD which once again provided me with a perfect opportunity to jump onto Zoom with Figgis to do a deep dive into the movie and it was a deep dive. We ended up speaking for nearly an hour about the film. And so what you're about to hear is an extended excerpt of that interview. Be warned, this is not a spoiler special interview per se, but we do get into plot details of this three decades old movie from the off. And we also discuss certain aspects of the movie that some may find disturbing. So forewarned is forearmed. But Figgis is on cracking, candid, chatty form here.

39:39Chris Hewitt:so I hope you enjoy. We are delighted to be joined on The Emperor Podcast by the director of Leaving Las Vegas, Mike Figgis. How are you, sir? I'm extremely well, Chris, and it's a pleasure to be here. Yeah, we're pretending, Mike, we haven't just spoken for an hour for the magazine, but we have.

40:00Chris Hewitt:But what a pleasure to talk to you about Leaving Las Vegas. And I know that this is a movie that you did revisit fairly recently. What was your big takeaway from that experience? Well, what's happening in the last six months or a year or so is that, you know, not prompted by me, but a couple of films, three films have been digitally remastered, right? And it started with Internal Affairs and then Leaving Las Vegas, then also Lieberstraum, you know, And they've gone back to the negative and like frame by frame, they have, you know, actually not just restored, that would be the wrong word. They look better than they ever did before because of the technology now of, you know, of digitizing and then, you know, balancing and all of that.

40:53So number one, from a visual point of view, it's just like quite stunning, you know. And you see the difference, say, between, let's say, Internal Affairs or Lieberstrand, 35 millimeter. and then to see Leaving Las Vegas, going back to Super 16 negative, and seeing stuff that was in the negative that didn't necessarily come out in quite the same way in the transfer process of 16 to 35, which was not digital. So the joy of just saying like, wow, the realization that all this information, I know as a photographer, if you digitize an old negative, you find things that you never saw before. because it retains all this information.

41:36So visually stunning, you know, that's number one. And then the experience of actually, I had the great fortune to see the film properly for the first time in Berlin with 500 people, you know, in a beautiful venue, the Halimiter Kunst, audience predominantly young, you know, as in for them, a first-time experience of seeing the film. So I was like, okay, how is this going to play, you know? And also, I haven't seen the film properly like that. I've seen bits of it, you know, but I haven't seen it as a long piece of narrative. And I was kind of immensely moved by the film. I'd forgotten how sad it is, how dark it is, how emotional it is.

42:23And then all the memories that came with that, which is, you know, the circumstance of making the film, the fact that the writer killed himself when we were about to make the film before I even met him I was about to meet him

42:36Chris Hewitt:oh wow I didn't know you hadn't met him no my friend Stuart had met him so Stuart Reagan who sadly died of you know like quite advanced cancer but you know and was also already ill when he I think he found a book in a second hand bookstore in Santa Monica. Loved it. Gave me the book. He bought the rights, which were, you know, totally available. And then he gave it to me and I carried it around in my bag for ages as a kind of favor because it's like people give you books and they don't normally work, right? And then out of guilt, because I really like Stuart, you know, Stuart was a, he ran an art gallery.

43:21He had nothing to do with the film business, right?

43:23Chris Hewitt:Stuart's into film, right? Yeah. Yeah. So finally, out of guilt, one weekend I read it, and I think within, I'd just done Mr. Jones, and I was so beaten up that I think within like 15 pages, I went, this is incredible. It's so dark, and it's so well written. I have no idea how this, you know, I feel this can be a film, but reading it, it's a challenge. It's just all internal thoughts, and, you know, it's what's going on in his head. but I said yeah to Stuart I think it's really really good let me have a crack at it so that was the genesis of it through Stuart and then watching the film as a finished thing all these years later you are reminded at certain points but the film is so engrossing that you're not distracted but at the same time in a much more wider sense the the bigger picture of the film is very much part of the experience for me of watching it.

44:26You know, the experience of shooting it, the experience, because it was the first film where I went, I want to shoot the next film myself. Yeah. I mean, so Declan's the DP, lovely DP, did a fantastic job and he, bless him, allowed me to shoot the other camera. You know, I already owned a 16 millimeter Art on camera. And which I believe was the camera that shot the draft. contract you know really okay i bought it second hand you know um and so armed with these two lovely beautiful cameras the artons um uh and french money rather than hollywood money you know so it's a freedom of shooting for the first time what i want how i wanted to make films first time it happened um so the joy of that shoot of that freedom and the creativity and you know don't realize that at the time but you've by sheer luck you have you have combined the right people you know you've you've got the right cast you've sorted out the script you know finally you know which was a real challenge um and the location is is containable uh you've got a really great line producer who knows how to make low-budget movies.

45:50So he's, you know, a fascist when you need him to be one and a schedule that you had to stick to and all of that within those confines and also decisions to make, don't carry lots of equipment, don't carry cranes, don't carry tracking. We're going to shoot this either handheld or on a tripod or something like that, you know for the most part um minimal lighting you know um free lighting in vegas um all that sort of stuff so you know now you're watching it and then you're just like and then you're aware of the fact that it's working at a certain point people did not go for a pee you know it was silent and then at the end as soon as it finished and the first credit started to come up they started clapping and you know and then they they they clapped for a while and then they stopped and they just watched all the credits and then when the credits finished they started clapping again and you know unfortunately they hadn't set up a q a which would have been perfect but i couldn't you know it was really difficult to leave the cinema because people were just wanted to ask questions and you know talk about it and and i couldn't speak at first i was actually I'm a tough guy, but I was actually very emotional.

47:04Chris Hewitt:What bit got you in particular? Just the crescendo of emotion at the end? Ben's death? It's so sad. Yeah. So beautifully sad. I was like a beautiful sadness. Elizabeth Shue is incredible. I mean, Nick is phenomenal. I mean, the two of them. But wow, what a pairing. That's like perfect. you know all those elements and the fact that you know i got to know vivian westwood i'd made a documentary with her she gave me all the clothes you know for for elizabeth you know um and just things like that you know just like oh this is how filmmaking can be you know it can be a joyous emotional wonderful experience there's no guarantee of course but But when it works, it can be like that, you know.

47:57And you read about other directors talking about their films, and they say the same thing.

48:03Chris Hewitt:And because you were an independent production, because you were running and gunning it in Vegas, and I know not always in Vegas, because you were backed by French money, not Hollywood money, I imagine you didn't have a lot of pressure brought to bear on things like the ending. You know, a movie about alcoholism tends, you know, But most studios would go, hey, you can't have the guy die at the end. You can't have him commit to this decision. I mean, obviously, I acquired a new agent in the run-up to this. And I was in Cannes with the Browning version. And they wanted me to do three days of press, like wall-to-wall press.

48:44And I said to them, if I can squeeze – I won't have lunch. If I can squeeze all the press into two days, can I use the third day? And they said yes. So on the third day, Robert Newman, my new agent, who was incredible, and I, we did the circuit. I mean, the soft porn circuit, everything, you know, the low end of Cannes. And the final meeting was with the Cazette's couple who said yes, you know, literally the last thing. Prior to that, prior to Cannes, we'd gone to everybody, Fox Searchlight, all the obvious places, you know. Weinstein, and they'd all said, no, it's too dark, too dark. The same in post-production when I started screening the film.

49:30They all said, it's really good, but it's too dark, too dark, too dark, until John Calley saw it, and he said, I love it. I'll take it. He'd just taken over MGM. So, again, you can never underplay the hand of fate, you know, because there's so many things could go wrong, but for some reason, at the last minute, everything clicked, you know. So, a part of that is that it was a charmed film, you know.

49:59Chris Hewitt:Well, that's fascinating to me because, you know, watching the film again, it is really interesting how the movie, it never sits in judgment. It never sits in judgment of Ben. It never sits in judgment of Sarah. It's focused a lot more on Sarah than I remembered as well. I hadn't seen it in a number of years. Can you talk about that? I mean, that sort of freedom to not sit in judgment of these characters. and the choices they make? Well, you could choose to kind of just say it's non-judgmental. In the script, in the book, and I no longer know what I wrote or what was in the book because, you know, I Xeroxed the book and I made these piles and the pile that was filming was very small and that was my sequence.

50:43And I started to write connecting scenes that didn't exist in the book. And then I started to go back into the book and go, oh, actually, I could take that. That would work there. I could incorporate that into this and so on, you know. So I found enough looking at the film this time. Although it's nonjudgmental, there are attempts, humanistic attempts. She does say to him, I want you to see a doctor. And that finishes their relationship at that moment. And then he says, maybe I should follow you around and see what it's like to, you know, have sex with you. Any time, you know, just say the word, you know.

51:21And then he does become judgmental. He does this horrible scene where he gives her the earring. And he says, you'll feel it as your face is being pushed into the pillow by one of the brothers. And it's horrible. And then a charming moment where Bob Rafelson sort of says, maybe you shouldn't. Maybe she seems to be whatever. And it's a humanizing thing. So there is this – it's very important if you're writing something like this that you don't lose sight of the fact that human feelings do come in at a certain point. Of course. He just doesn't want him to die, you know. And at a certain point, he's not so comfortable, as he says, with the idea of her going off as a prostitute every night, you know.

52:03He's jealous, you know. He's not comfortable with it, despite his, you know, apparent, you know, like total acceptance. So those moments then I think are vital to the balance of the film because it's not just, you know, we're just going to go in this direction of non-judgmentalism, you know.

52:24Chris Hewitt:And Sarah is so crucial to the film as well in that she's basically our way into seeing Ben because the audience doesn't want him to die either. And he can, at times, Mike, be a difficult watch in the film. And I think it's really, really important that we see that Sarah does connect to him and brings out moments of levity moments of lightness and kindness in him as well. Yeah. And this is an important story now because, you know, I worked really hard on the script. I did three drafts probably over like two years or something like that. I thought I'd nailed it, right? We got the money. We were in pre-production and I woke up one morning just like, oh my God, there's something missing from the script.

53:10You know, at the end of the day, I read the script again. He's a drunk. He's not very nice. is a pain in the ass. I've known alcoholics, and they're not fun to be with, right? Why would she fall in love with him? And then I went back into the book, and I found all these streams of consciousness from her internal thoughts about how she loved him, and she found herself looking for him again. And I thought, I've got to find a way of getting that into the film. So I went to the producer, Lila Kazas, and I said, oh, thank God, I woke up this morning. and I realized something really important. And I told her, we've got to put this in.

53:47And she said, no. She said, no, I signed off on the script. I'm happy with the script. I don't want anything else. And she refused. And she was the producer, right? So I thought, okay, I've got to be really clever now. So I cheated. And so we did a camera test before we were shooting, a couple of days before we were shooting. She dressed up in her Vivian Westwood stuff and all of that. And I said to her quietly, so Elizabeth, we're going to do some improvisation. You're in therapy. I'm going to be your therapist. Here are the pages from the book. Don't memorize them. Just read them. Absorb them.

54:26And I'm going to ask you some questions, right? Very influenced by the film Clute. Make no bones about it. And so in pre-production, in this camera test, we set up the shot, dressed it a little bit, some flowers or whatever, and made a little therapy room and didn't tell Leela. When she found out, she was furious. And to the very end, I struggled with getting it into the film because she resisted to the final moment. you know but i think if i hadn't done that the film wouldn't have worked because she allows the audience to like him yes and that that's the genius of what she does you know oh my god that's

55:16Chris Hewitt:amazing because i i was going to ask about the therapy scenes and about who her therapist was who she was looking at because we never see she was looking at you being sure i just i have to keep like you know because i talk i don't talk don't talk you know just ask the question and shut up. Don't say or anything. So it was the very last minute that you were putting these scenes into the film and the producer was just going, this isn't working? Or did she, once she saw it, she realised, okay, this has to go in. Not quite. No, I had to fight. She also didn't like the music at all and she wanted to replace the music at the end.

55:55Chris Hewitt:Including the Sting songs? She hated the Sting songs. So I did a really, again, this is a Like, this is a joke, but it's true. So we had this thing. I had learned my lesson with people by now, with Ridley and with various people, right? Don't argue, you know, over time. So we had this conversation. I said, why don't you like the music? It's not just me, she said. My mother doesn't like it either. She doesn't like Sting. And I went, but, you know, he's given us like a million dollars worth of music for nothing. We have no budget for music, you know. And it's just still hell underpouring. So I said, well, you know, let's think about it.

56:36I'll call you back. So I kind of like, calm down, calm down, calm down. Strategy, strategy. So I rang her back and I said, look, okay, I hear your point. You know, it's a personal thing. I've come up with a better idea. So I said, when I had my own theater company, I did this opera in German. It was all about death and everything. And all the songs are in German, but they're kind of perfect for this film. And I think we should use those songs, you know, Ich wein um meine Mutter, you know, Unendlich Schwarzhöhle. It's a really dark, you know, this is perfect for the film. And she said, well, but who would sing them?

57:16I said, oh, I can sing them, you know. I may be making this up, but she sort of said, I'll call you back. She called me back and she said, we're going to go with Sting. And I went, I don't know, I'm kind of insulted, Lila, you know. but I dodged another bullet, right? You know, it's like it was charmed, but there was a kind of certain specific kind of charm to it.

57:42Chris Hewitt:Oh my God, that's amazing. Because those sting songs and the score, which you wrote, is so, again, so important to the film and to the feeling of the film. And again, watching it again, I was struck by, yes, how dark and bleak the last half hour is or so. But the Sting songs have this wistful quality which is really interesting and you have this almost it's not quite this of course but almost rom-com-y nature to the early meetings between Ben and Sarah. They have a meet-cute for God's sake where he nearly runs her over in the car. All of that is so important. The lightness of the first hour or so of the movie is so important.

58:27Plus, you know, I'm like a massive, you know, we could talk for hours about music, but I was thinking the other day, what's wrong with music now is that, you know, ever since, you know, everybody decided you don't need to do a chord change, you can repeat the same phrase 400 times, and that's a song, right? And I was thinking, oh, what a shame that they're missing out on the great American songbook style of writing, which is actually genius. It's like contemporary opera. and you analyze the words of angel eyes but you analyze my one and only love or lonesome old town and they are narrative this is operatic narrative the words are amazing and i'm such a huge fan of that that period of songwriting you know so um the end of that story is so mgm show interest in buying the film right and they're in london and they they say let's have lunch so they're gonna have lunch at somewhere like, you know, the Savoy or somewhere really fancy, right?

59:28And it's Frank Mancuso Sr. So, you know, back from the days of Paramount. But with him is the new head of the studio, John Calley. And Robert Newman rings me up and he says, here's what you should know about John Calley. He's really quite a character, you know. He retired from the film business. He's come back to save MGM. He's a really interesting guy. And I'm sitting next to John Calley. We start talking and I quickly discover he's an ex-jazz musician, right? He's a book player back in the day, right? He was in New York and he was really good friends with Charlie Parker's widow, Chan Parker.

1:00:06So we start talking about, and he loves this music, right? So we just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah about music, about jazz. And then I say to him, look, I've got a funny question. I said, my favorite drummer of all time, no one's ever heard of, is a guy called Dave Tuff. You know, he's the drummer's drummer. He's Charlie Watts' favorite drummer, right? Wow. Yeah. And he is a kind of, he's the guy that made the transition from, let's say, Dixieland, traditional jazz, into modern jazz as a drummer. He's unsung, but drummers know who he is. John Kelly sort of tears up, and he goes, he was my godfather.

1:00:43Chris Hewitt:Get out of town. Yeah. he said i've got his musician's union card you know um and i went good god you know um and so we bonded and at a certain point i remember mancuso senior saying you know john we should go we have this other appointment he goes i'm talking to mike you know so he bought the film right so lila kazez then rings him up now mgm have got distribution in america and she says, John, we need to have a talk about the music because I don't think the music's right. Now, Mike's got vinyl cut, but you're the distributor. So if you put pressure on him and say, we've got to change the music, in other words, do a Harvey, he's going to have to give in.

1:01:30And he says, Leela, one of the reasons I bought the movie is because I love the score so much and I wouldn't change a note. right so again a fairy godmother um you know in and i didn't find this out till a year or so later when we became friends because i then you know got a deal at mgm and at sony through john calley you know um but it was john calley who just said no i'm not going to change

1:01:59Chris Hewitt:it mike figures has been an absolute pleasure thanks so much for your time chris been a pleasure too thank you all right that was mike figures talking about leaving las vegas which is available right now on 4K UHD, again, in all physical and online stores. And the full Mike Ficus interview can also be found over on our Spoiler Special feed and as well worth your time. Again, the URL EmpireSpoilerSpecials.com And that is it for this bumper episode of the interviews. Hope you enjoyed it. Another one will be hurtling into your feeds very, very soon. So keep an eye out for that. In the meantime, thank you for listening.

1:02:36Chris Hewitt:See you next time. Bye bye.