The Interviews (ft. Rose Byrne, Neve Campbell, Corin Hardy)

16:00Chris Hewitt:Yeah. It's long been a soapbox subject of mine on this podcast.

16:04Neve Campbell:Yeah. Oh, look, I could talk about it all day. I'm a nerd about that stuff. and I still, you know, I learnt on these sets from these extraordinary comedic actors from Melissa and Kristen and Seth. And so I feel I'm a student of theirs and I feel like, and that would be like, I would say that to Kristen and she would like laugh at me or, you know, but it's true. I was schooled in this incredible school of comedic actors, you know, I was so lucky.

16:38Chris Hewitt:But with Linda then, for example, because Mary obviously knows his character inside and out, so were you able to play within the lines that she had conjured up?

16:47Neve Campbell:That's a great question. So, there were some scenes that we discovered moments of improv, but very little. It was very true to the screenplay. But there were some scenes where to move it along, we needed to push things in a certain way. and I would think one scene at the motel and the tension sort of rising and it was back and forth and we needed to drive it a little more so we started to improv through the end of the scene and that I think helped in the pace. So there were moments but I really leaned on her. I was like I would ask a thousand questions and, you know, and I became a little bit paranoid like the character.

17:25Neve Campbell:At the end of the day I'd ask her a thousand more questions. Did we get this? Did we get this? I was so wary of making sure I was doing my job. I just was, yeah, I was on the edge of my seat the whole time, much like Linda a little bit. I'm very church and state, but I think it does seep in a little bit when you're doing it.

17:43Chris Hewitt:And, of course, you're not playing Mary. It's inspired and influenced by her own experiences. But did you bring any of your own experiences to bear on Linda as well?

17:56Neve Campbell:I feel you, you know, I've, God, knock on wood, I've not had this experience and most parents won't with their child, but, but any time, but any, the nature of the, the relentless nature, I think of parenting is inherent and universal. And that is something I, I feel any parent can relate to. And also, you know, we talk, I've talked so much about the harder aspects of parenting, but it's also like, so empowering being a parent. And so it's the greatest role of my life and it's a gift, you know, all those wonderful things. but this film is about, you know, it's really about the experience of the mother and also I think the fact you don't see the daughter, which we've talked about, is a big conceit, you know, because when a child comes on screen, your empathy, as it should, goes with the child.

18:42Neve Campbell:And so to be focused entirely on the mother, it's a big conceit, big swing, but it lends itself so much to this claustrophobic nature that the film is employing to tell the story.

18:58Chris Hewitt:Absolutely. You say, of course, Rose, that being a mother is the greatest role of your life, but that role is entirely improv, right?

19:06Neve Campbell:Yeah. And it's the most confront - it confronts all your limitations, all of your limitations as a person. It's very - it's wild how that and how it changes to and evolves and all the corny, all the cliches, all of it, it's all true. It's all true how much you have to reflect back your you know what you need to work on as a person to to to try to fulfill the role you know and do the best you know version of yourself you can yeah it would be nice to have

19:37Chris Hewitt:a script though i'm guessing this one for someone just to go i'm constantly looking for a script i'm

19:41Neve Campbell:constantly asking other parents how do you do this and what happens when you do this and what do you guys do it like i'm always asking and searching and i have yeah i couldn't believe it when you become apparent it's like you've gone you've gone to the moon and nobody told you oh no you're going to go to the moon it's a it's a no no one told you it's a piece of piss come on what are

20:01Chris Hewitt:you doing um i want to ask about working with conan and brian on this oh yeah so how well known

20:07Neve Campbell:is he can i ask you to audiences here in the uk well i don't know that his show was necessarily

20:13Chris Hewitt:ever on here but I think for comedy nerds like me, yes.

20:17Neve Campbell:Yeah, so for anyone in comedy, he is a legend. And he was, he's just, he's wonderful. He's the opposite of his character. It genuinely is. He's a very empathic guy. He's very personable. He's wildly supportive. He's become sort of a life coach for me and Mary Bronstein. He's so glass half full. and he's just so wildly bright. He's just got that mind. He's so quick. He's so bright. And his gift for comedy is this, he's a national treasure, you know, and I think he had fun. I know he was very nervous and he's spoken to this. He said no at first and was like, are you crazy? And she convinced him and he decided to do something like wildly radical and we had such, you know, we had a really, really fun time And he also drove me crazy in those scenes because he's not helping her.

21:15Neve Campbell:He's not helping her. He's actively kind of, there's so much contempt between them at the end. And to Mary and I, it's really the love story of the film. It's obviously never transgressive, but they are at the bitter end of this relationship. and when he breaks up with her effectively and ends this patient-client-doctor relationship, the movie's over. Ten minutes later, that's when she goes completely off the rails and ends up throwing herself in the ocean. He's her last reflection of reality. He's the last one that she's allowed into her life.

21:53Chris Hewitt:There is a moment between Linda and Conan's character that really, to be by surprise I've seen the movie a couple of times now and the second time I got to see it on a

22:03Neve Campbell:on my computer so I had subtitles yeah yeah and I went back and I re-watched it it's a moment when

22:10Chris Hewitt:he they're in a room together and he leaves and Linda says something under her breath and it sounds like I love you and I went back and I checked with the the subtitles and it is I love you yeah what I mean that's astonishing that scene what what's what's going on there it's so um

22:26Neve Campbell:well I just thought it's I mean it's so comically tragic like tragically comic rather um and it just allows a window into her delusion as well I mean the whole film is windowed her but really in that moment you see how far she's gone in her mind with this relationship um that she's let that slip out this slip out, this tiny, this thing that you just feel so uncomfortable and you're like, oh no, oh no, honey, don't, don't, don't.

23:02Chris Hewitt:And we don't know whether he hears her, but there's this…

23:05Neve Campbell:Yeah, and it's even more awkward because you're like, did he hear her? Did he not hear her? But capturing this moment of just absolute when those moments in your life, when you say in the deep reveal of what you actually think is the reality of this relationship and it's just not. And it

23:22Rose Byrne:Like, so, and also the humour in that moment too, I think is really, for me, I took that away as well.

23:34Chris Hewitt:You mentioned throwing yourself into the ocean. Now, I'm guessing September, October 2023, it was fucking freezing?

23:44Neve Campbell:So, you would, that's a fair estimate, it was actually warm. Oh, okay. Yeah, the water, we were in Montauk in Long Island and it was the end of the summer, like the very, very end. And it was so much like basically the whole schedule was around that. Like when can we get there? Because if we don't get there by this time, we won't be able to shoot it. And the water was gorgeous. It was so warm, but it was rough. It was very rough. And that was scary. It was scary. We had a great team though and a lot of, you know, there for safety and I had an extraordinary stunt double, but I did 80 % of it. So I think being an Australian, we have great respect for the ocean and you walk and swim at the same time.

24:24Neve Campbell:You really do. You have to learn to swim and walk. It's the same thing. So I think that lent itself subconsciously to the whole experience is that I knew how to, I knew where, you know what I mean? I just knew when the rip was coming or where it was coming and when to get out and when I didn't feel comfortable with it. Like in that sense of I'm not going to do something dangerous because I know I've been in a rip before in Australia and I've grown up there. So, I think that lent itself to my willingness to throw myself at my ability to do it. I was like, I know what to look out for.

24:54Chris Hewitt:Bloody hell, you should get extra pay as a stunt person at this point as well.

25:01Neve Campbell:It was such a beautiful sequence, though. So, it felt there was such anticipation around shooting that sequence because it was just stunning. And I think it plays so beautifully at the end of the movie. It's quite breathtaking, that sequence.

25:14Chris Hewitt:It's amazing. Absolutely amazing. And the last thing I want to ask you is you're in town because you've been nominated for a BAFTA, which is taking place tomorrow night. Congratulations on that. And all the awards that you've won for this role as well. And, of course, the Oscars coming up also. Conan is hosting the Oscars.

25:35Neve Campbell:I know, he's the host. Isn't that magic? It is magic. We were going, we've got to find out who's done that before. Because I'm sure it's happened before where there's been a host who's also been in a film. But it's highly unlikely too because Conan's never done a feature film before in a dramatic role. Definitely not. So I'm thrilled. I couldn't be more thrilled. I feel like I'm hosting because he's hosting.

26:01Chris Hewitt:Have you asked him to, I don't know, have a word? I mean, I don't know. Maybe he should recuse himself because he's in the pocket of… I know.

26:11Neve Campbell:I just hope that, what do I hope for? I hope to get some extra, maybe the film, maybe he can do some shout outs for us on this. I hope he does a little, some roasting of us would be fun. I just hope he refers to himself as a therapist. I hope there's some kind of referential note in him because it is, he's so funny in it and so wonderful. And I think it's really cool.

26:31Chris Hewitt:Well, on that note, I'm going to let you go. I wish you all the best tomorrow night at the BAFTAs and at the Oscars as well.

26:38Neve Campbell:Thank you. I appreciate it thank you take care

26:40Chris Hewitt:thanks Rose okay that was Rose Byrne talking about If I Had Legs I'd Kick You which is in cinemas now and is well worth your time folks and next up

26:49Rose Byrne:hello Sydney that was my attempt to be ghost face terrible sorry anyway

26:54Chris Hewitt:yes it's Nev Campbell who returns to the Scream series in this week's Scream 7 as the final girl to end all final girls Sydney Prescott Campbell of course was not in Scream 6 the first film in the franchise that she gave a swerve to. But she's back, back, back now, anchoring a new chapter, which, after a false start that saw stars Melissa Barrera and Jenna Ortega and director Christopher Landon leave the project under less than ideal circumstances, brings Kevin Williamson, who wrote the original Scream all the way back in 1996 for director Wes Craven, into the director's chair for the first time.

27:30Chris Hewitt:I went along and spoke to Nev just last week in a London hotel room and wanted to ask her about the legacy of this character and this franchise, about asking Kevin Williamson to direct it, about the great Wes Craven, of course, and much, much more. She was on great form. Hope you enjoy. We are delighted to be joined on the Emperor Podcast by the star of Scream 7, Nev Campbell. How are you?

27:50Rose Byrne:I'm great. Thank you. How are you?

27:51Chris Hewitt:I'm very, very good indeed, I have to say. And I spoke to Kevin, Kevin Williamson, about a month ago or so for Empire Magazine. And he was telling me about the time that you essentially asked him to direct this movie. and he said it was very emotional for him. He wasn't expecting it. He was blindsided a little bit. So talk me through your perspective on that.

28:12Rose Byrne:Oh, gosh. Yeah, no, it was an honour to be able to ask him. I had had discussions with the studio. They had, you know, come to me and told me that they wanted to make a Sidney Prescott story this time round. And I was obviously intrigued and excited at the idea of that. And when we started having conversations about who the director should be, there was one person on the list. I mean, it didn't make sense to ask anybody else. and Kevin's always wanted to direct one of these. So I said, can I please be the one to ask him? I want to make that call. So we set up a Zoom and he didn't know what it was about.

28:44Rose Byrne:I think he probably thought it was going to be about script.

28:46Corin Hardy:Yeah.

28:47Rose Byrne:And I got to ask him. And yeah, and he was blindsided and he was very quick to answer yes and was in tears and then I was in tears and we're both crying. It was great. It was a really lovely moment.

29:01Chris Hewitt:What were your exact words? How did you do it? Did you get down on one knee but then you would disappear from the scene cameras? I'm going to work on a Zoom. Will you do me the honor of directing Screen 7?

29:10Rose Byrne:Basically, I just said, you know, Kevin, we've all been having a discussion and it doesn't make sense for anyone else to direct. Would you want to do that?

29:17Chris Hewitt:Amazing. Yeah. I mean, he will think about it. I'll get back to you. My people will call your people.

29:22Rose Byrne:No. We'll see if we can make this happen. It was quick.

29:24Chris Hewitt:I have not, at the time that we were talking, seen this movie.

29:28Rose Byrne:No.

29:29Chris Hewitt:So I'm sure there are a lot of surprises in store. Kevin did say that when the two of you first started talking about this movie and what you wanted this movie to do, that drawing back on the blood and gore was one of the things that you wanted to do. And then as time went on, you went. Yeah. Pretty much.

29:48Rose Byrne:So it's funny because I did talk to him about that. And I was like, I feel like we've gone too far in one direction. I really, if we're going to do this together, can we make sure it's not as violent and not as gory? And he's like, yeah. and then I saw it two weeks ago and it's just as gory and bloody how did that happen Kevin?

30:04Neve Campbell:no

30:05Rose Byrne:you know what it's all the things we want from a Scream movie it's got I mean it's intelligent and it's we're back to Sydney which is great you know to a character that we care deeply about and I think we might be curious about now and now we get to see her as a mom in a way that we've never seen her before which is lovely and we get to see Isabel May who plays Tatum who is astounding. She's just such a strong actor. She's got a lot of depth to her. And this character needs gravitas. So they did such a good job casting her. And then you get the humor and the witty and all the things we want. It's fun.

30:47Rose Byrne:I had a moment of, okay, I've asked Kevin, and yeah, he's the best choice. And then I was like, oh, God, I really hope he's the best choice. Fingers crossed, everything crossed. and then I saw it a couple of weeks. I had been in the edit quite a bit with him.

30:58Chris Hewitt:Yeah, yeah.

30:59Rose Byrne:But I saw the final cut a couple of weeks ago and I was in tears at the end. Oh, wow.

31:04Neve Campbell:I was sitting next to him and I was like, I'm not crying.

31:09Rose Byrne:I'm not crying over a scream movie. That's the thing, I think. Yeah, it just reminded me so much of the first.

31:17Chris Hewitt:Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's interesting. That was really nice.

31:21Rose Byrne:I feel like we finally got back to what we love about that.

31:24Chris Hewitt:Well, because I'm a big fan of the franchise. And I think one of the things that sets Scream aside from most other quote unquote slasher franchises is that you care about the characters. So, you know, when in Scream 2, Randy, spoiler for Scream 2, Randy gets killed. It really hits home when my boy Dewey got killed in Scream. That was painful.

31:50Rose Byrne:That hurt. That really hurt. It still hurts.

31:53Chris Hewitt:It still hurts. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, I think that's one of the things that sets this franchise aside. For you, you've been involved with this from the beginning. What's the scream death that's most hurt you? You can't talk about this movie, obviously.

32:06Rose Byrne:Yeah, I think it's got to be Dewey. I just, you know, there was only three of us who'd gotten that far. And, you know, to do that many films together, you really, you come to love these characters. and he's just such an adorable, wonderful, kind, funny character. And David himself as well is all of those things and his quirkiness. And he's just, he's got a bit of something that everybody can relate to.

32:32Chris Hewitt:Yeah.

32:33Rose Byrne:I think. And so it was painful. I'm still pissed off about it.

32:37Chris Hewitt:Yeah. I spoke to David afterwards. I know he wasn't.

32:40Neve Campbell:I bet he was too.

32:42Rose Byrne:Well, it's like a death. I mean, it is a death as an actor when you have to say goodbye to a character.

32:46Chris Hewitt:Yeah.

32:47Rose Byrne:You thought you might get to play it again, and then suddenly you're like, oh, I'm never going to see them again. They're actually gone. It's hard.

32:53Chris Hewitt:Obviously, I know movies are shot out of chronology. But in a way, when someone dies on a Scream movie, are they gone? Does everyone come around and watch the death scene and give them a big death gift at the end?

33:08Rose Byrne:No, not necessarily. I think if you're around, if you're shooting that day, you would go witness that for sure.

33:14Chris Hewitt:Yeah. No. Okay.

33:17Rose Byrne:That would be kind of weird and creepy. Yeah, I was going to say. A lot of pressure for the actor too.

33:23Chris Hewitt:Yeah, that would be very, very strange. It has, of course, been well documented. You weren't in the last movie. You weren't in Scream 6. It's been well documented. Exactly what happened there. But not being part of it as it came out, was looking at it from the outside in, was that tough for you? And is this something that if Scream 7 happens, I'd like to be back in that? It was tough.

33:47Rose Byrne:uh when i knew they'd started shooting yeah um it was not when it came out at that point i was it was i'd let it go um but it was tough knowing that these people were going into this playground that i love yeah you know and that i wasn't there um but it still felt like the right choice i really i knew that i couldn't walk onto that set and like myself very much or how or respect myself very much for what I'd been offered at the time.

34:18Chris Hewitt:Yeah, absolutely. I've heard played to you, indeed. And you're talking here about, you know, loving this playground and loving Sydney. And, of course, this could have been, this was beyond your wildest dreams, I'm guessing, when you first stepped onto the set of the first movie with Wes, you know, all those years ago. At what point, you know, you didn't even know there was going to be a Scream 2, which obviously happened very, very quickly. but at what point did you really fall in love with not just Sydney but Scream?

34:50Rose Byrne:The whole, I mean, the script, reading the script for the first time, you know, it's so rare. Not that I'd read that many scripts at that age. I had on Party of Five and stuff, but, you know, but I still knew that it was special. I still knew there was something really special and new and exciting about this project. And then getting there to Santa Rosa and being with these really interesting actors, you know, who all were kind of crazy and energetic and fun and funny and talented. and then Wes, this gazelle walking around. It was a surreal experience in this beautiful town and it really was like summer camp.

35:42Rose Byrne:We were all really new in our careers. Nobody was famous yet. Drew was, but the rest of us, Courtney.

35:47Chris Hewitt:She was gone by that point anyway.

35:49Rose Byrne:Yeah, exactly. First year of Friends, first year of Party of Five, it was all very new for us. you know courtney was a bit more famous than any of us um but yeah so just special yeah yeah so i don't know did i know i didn't know there was no way to know um you couldn't know until it came out and then suddenly it was this huge film and even when it came out i was so clueless at the time i remember my i remember seeing the numbers at the first and i didn't know what numbers were and the second weekend my agents called me and they were like they all called me as a team and I'd never had my my team call me and I thought oh shoot what have I done what did I do am I in trouble are they letting me go and they're like never we have to talk to you I was like okay they're like it did this number and I was like oh no is that bad and they're like no it's really good like these numbers are really good I just was clueless kind of probably a good thing that I was clueless to be honest um and then yeah it's just kept going and going and going

36:49Chris Hewitt:You barreled straight into, again, talking to Kevin about this. I mean, Scream 2 came out a year later, and he said he doesn't really remember writing it. Oh, really?

36:59Rose Byrne:Wow.

37:00Chris Hewitt:He could have fooled me because I love that movie, and it is absolutely brilliant. But barreling straight into that, was there a sense of the momentum carrying you a little bit into that film as well? Yeah.

37:13Rose Byrne:Gosh, that time was such a crazy time. I was shooting 10 months on Party of Five every year on film, 15 to 16 hour days, and then trying and then having two weeks off at Christmas. And for that other month and a half left or whatever, for two months trying to make a movie, you know, so that I could establish myself as something other than Julia on Party of Five. That was important to me. But I had, you know, done Party of Five, gone straight into Wild Things and then straight into Scream. And so it was, I think that's right. Yeah, that's right. On the timing. So it was overwhelming. But at that time, when you're that young and these things are happening to you, you don't know what's normal and not normal, you know?

37:54Rose Byrne:But I was excited. I liked Sydney, and I was excited to explore her again. And, you know, I was barely making anything on that film because they negotiated me on the first. Courtney hadn't. She was getting paid, but I was not. You know, that number. Because I was a nobody, you know? I was still, even though I was in this movie, they'd done so well. I was sort of still a nobody.

38:16Chris Hewitt:But you point at the poster, but that's me on the front of the poster.

38:18Rose Byrne:That's weird.

38:20Chris Hewitt:Cough up.

38:21Rose Byrne:Doesn't work that way. Doesn't work that way, sadly. Not a few parties, I'm thinking.

38:25Chris Hewitt:Unbelievable. Unbelievable. But yeah, this has been, you know, just an amazing journey for you over the last, what, 30 years now, I guess, with this character. We've talked about, you know, some of the great actors that you've interacted with. Do you remember your first interaction with Ghostface? The first time you were chased by him? or, and I guess it wasn't Matthew or Skeet always in the costume. No, not always. Because I know on the last couple for Radio Silence, for those guys, Tyler and Matt, it was important for them for a lot of the times, the actors who were Ghostface to actually be in the costume.

39:00Chris Hewitt:But it wasn't necessarily the case for Wes, I'm guessing.

39:03Rose Byrne:No, we've had different stunt guys. There's those who want the speed and you want the fighting ability and you also don't want your actors to get hurt. And people trip in that thing a lot.

39:13Chris Hewitt:I'm surprised that Ghostface gets so much done. I know. Because that's a big old cloak.

39:18Rose Byrne:It's difficult.

39:19Chris Hewitt:Yeah. Very quiet as well for someone who wears DMs.

39:22Rose Byrne:I know. Totally.

39:24Chris Hewitt:Plumping around. But yeah. So do you remember your first experience?

39:28Rose Byrne:Honestly, I'm not, to be honest, I'm not sure I remember. I think it was probably a chase sequence out the house.

39:34Chris Hewitt:Okay.

39:34Rose Byrne:Possibly jumping over a fence.

39:36Chris Hewitt:Had you any idea what he was going to look like at that point?

39:39Rose Byrne:I remember seeing Wes decide on the mask. They had a mask that they had found in a shop, and it was inspired by that. But then they decided to hone it. And so I remember him sitting with three different masks that all look similar, but not exactly the same. And he and the props guys and the designers making a decision. Yeah. And Ghostface was born, which is crazy. And it really is an amazing mask. It is haunting, isn't it?

40:05Chris Hewitt:Psychotic. Absolutely iconic. When was the first time you heard Roger's voice? Was that unsaid at all? Yeah, unsaid.

40:11Rose Byrne:I never met Roger, not until Scream 3. Oh, wow. Wes made sure that I didn't meet him. So he hid him behind one of these black tarps somewhere off set with a phone. And so I would only act with him through the phone. That voice is iconic and incredible. And Roger Jackson. He's just such a sweet little old man and wonderful and so playful. with that character. And yeah, I remember being quite daunted, which is exactly what you want.

40:47Chris Hewitt:Absolutely. Have you ever, in your various phone conversations with the many ghostbaces that Sidney has bested over the years, have you ever just improv'd with him

40:56Rose Byrne:and just go off script?

40:58Chris Hewitt:And just started riffing?

41:02Rose Byrne:Those lines are pretty tight. But sometimes, prior to a scene nowadays, because I'm a little more relaxed about it, I might have a little conversation prior to action.

41:11Chris Hewitt:A little loosener.

41:12Rose Byrne:How you doing? What'd you have for lunch?

41:13Chris Hewitt:Yeah, absolutely. Because, you know, I think if Sydney just talked at Ghostbates...

41:17Rose Byrne:It might be okay. They might get along.

41:19Chris Hewitt:They might find things in common.

41:20Rose Byrne:They might. They've never actually asked much more than what your favorite story movie.

41:25Chris Hewitt:And fuck you.

41:26Rose Byrne:Yeah, absolutely.

41:27Chris Hewitt:Yeah, yeah. You know, what do you like? I like chasing people with a knife. Well, I like not being chased with a knife. I like running, though.

41:33Rose Byrne:We could run together. Let's go for a joke.

41:35Chris Hewitt:Yeah, great cardio. It'd be fantastic. I just want to ask very, very quickly, because I've got to let you go, but about working with Wes. I mean, he directed the first four movies. Yeah. I had the pleasure of talking to him on a number of occasions, obviously before he passed. And he was just a wonderful, wonderful guy. So, so smart. What was your experience like with him?

41:53Rose Byrne:Exactly that. I mean, he was so, so smart. I mean, he was a professor prior to being a director. And just, I don't know. He did. He did walk like a gazelle on set. He was so graceful. this tall, lean, bearded man, and had such a twisted sense of humor, but was really gentle and astute and cared a lot about his crew. I think it's so important, the person at the top. I mean, it really is that trickle down. If they're being kind and they're being generous and they're being conscious and they care about the work, then everyone else will do the same.

42:31Chris Hewitt:And did you see in Kevin a little bit of Wes, or was Kevin very much his own person? Oh, completely.

42:35Rose Byrne:No. I mean, Kevin was on set, the first set, almost every day. And I don't think he realized it as a 32-year-old baby writer that the writer's not supposed to be on set. And, you know, most directors are like, off you go. I'm not interested. You know, you're done. It's my job now. But Wes was so gracious with him. Like, gave him all kinds, you know, Kevin was there, what are you going to do with that? Why are you doing that? And he listened. And he shared his wisdom. And so Kevin took all of that. That's why, you know, look at his career now for the last 30 years has just been amazing. And a lot of that is what he's taken from what he learned.

43:11Chris Hewitt:Absolutely. Including buckets of blood.

43:14Rose Byrne:Buckets of blood.

43:15Chris Hewitt:Buckets of blood.

43:15Rose Byrne:He told me the other day that he actually just randomly, whenever he thinks of a death, he takes notes. He writes them down. Well, that'd be a fun way to die. That's a creative way to die. And he has notes in his phone, or maybe it's a book. But he definitely has a list of just interesting ways to die. If that doesn't say something about Kevin Williamson.

43:36Chris Hewitt:No, yeah. I can see that. I can see a sort of creepy serial killers wall charts with lots of red string knocking around. I can see that. Isn't that weird? I was like, Kevin, what? Have you seen this notebook? No, but maybe I should. Maybe you shouldn't.

43:50Rose Byrne:Maybe you shouldn't. Maybe you shouldn't.

43:52Chris Hewitt:And on that note, Nev Campbell, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you.

43:55Rose Byrne:Thank you.

43:56Chris Hewitt:Okay. That was Nev Campbell talking about Scream 7, which is in cinemas from tomorrow, Thursday, February 26th. And let's stay in that horror film vibe, shall we folks? Corin Hardy's whistle, in which a group of teenagers are picked off one by one, not by a masked, ghost-faced killer, but by death itself, after they blow an ancient death whistle that summons their future deaths to track them down, has been in cinemas a couple of weeks now. And Corin was kind enough to come into the pod booth on two separate occasions to record an absolute beast of a spoiler special interview with me, clocking in at around 90 minutes or so.

44:32Chris Hewitt:That is up now on our spoiler special subscription feed, but if you don't subscribe and are on the fence about doing so, well, here's 20 minutes or so of that interview that may tip you over the edge. In a nice direction, hopefully. Remember, this is a spoiler special interview, so do not listen to it unless you've seen Whistle. We spoil shit from Lee Off. Enjoy. We are delighted to be joined on this spoiler special for Whistle by the film's director, Coren Hardy. How are you, sir?

45:00Corin Hardy:I'm here. I'm happy.

45:01Chris Hewitt:nice to see you you've made it yeah a little bit hairy on the way but yeah your future death hasn't tracked you down yet it was trying that we know of

45:09Corin Hardy:yeah we took a detour cheated it

45:14Chris Hewitt:there's so much to talk about with this movie before we get into it properly Karn is drinking what is it an Earl Grey tea you're drinking at the moment

45:21Corin Hardy:Earl Grey tea no sugar tiny little bit of milk

45:23Chris Hewitt:alright okay is that okay

45:25Corin Hardy:no it's totally fine

45:26Chris Hewitt:should I stop slurping no it's fine well yeah maybe that maybe stop doing that particular noise I'll stop doing that but so before oh Jesus Christ he's just placed in Choka itself Louis the Aztec death whistle from the movie staring directly at me I have to bring it everywhere

45:46Corin Hardy:since making a film

45:47Chris Hewitt:it feels like my co-pilot of this movie if you listen to our live show the car it was on episode 700 from a couple of months ago now you'll know that you bring this everywhere with you like the like the nuclear football in America. You have it chained to your wrist at all times because this thing's too dangerous to let out.

46:07Corin Hardy:Exactly. Can't be, you know, put in some unfortunate person's hands. You had a hand in design in this, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. I had a hand in it. I worked a lot with brilliant Spanish concept artist Daniel Carrusco. And we went back and forth on about 50 different looks. to get to where it got to, which is something that could hold up to extreme close-ups and be like the lead character opposite Daphne and Sophie and the gang.

46:40Chris Hewitt:Yeah.

46:41Corin Hardy:And as well as I want it to feel really sacred and historical and ancient and like it had been passed through hundreds if not thousands of pairs of hands and being responsible for lots of perishment.

46:55Chris Hewitt:which is a brand new word that Cornhardy has coined for this movie and rightly so because there are a lot of perishments in this movie did you want it to exude a sense of evil or did you want it to be neutral

47:07Corin Hardy:well if you if I had a way of controlling the light in here then you can change that and what I wanted was to exactly balance that sort of flat light and Chris had just turned the lights on very bright and then if you turned them all out and you had a little light underneath it it can look very malign. It can look vacant. I want it to look almost like something that was ignoring you at some times and something that was extremely powerful and domineering over, you know, presiding over the unfolding carnage. And visually, did you want it to be, how much of a presence did you want it to be in the movie?

47:43Corin Hardy:It had to be a presence in the movie, yeah. It had to be, it had to feel like it could hold up. I mean... It's not there for every death, though. It's not that necessarily. It doesn't appear when people No, it doesn't appear, but it needs to both be something that lures you in and makes you need to blow it in order to get you to carry out this sort of encroaching death. And anyone that hears it, their deaths are going to come as well. So, yeah, it was trying to capture something which I wanted it to feel iconic, like a new sort of horror, iconic horror character in its own right. and hold up on a poster, and we'll cut to it.

48:27Corin Hardy:I mean, it's a bit like, I guess, the doll in Annabelle. It never moves, it's static. But just by pushing in on it, you get this sense that it's aware of everything that's going on around it. So whilst it can't change its expression, there was an early idea that I wanted to make five or six different expressions, very subtly different. But we sort of achieved that with lighting.

48:48Chris Hewitt:Yeah, yeah. As well. It's interesting, because it does whisper to people. so we hear it whisper to Chris we hear it whisper to the girl at the end of the movie as well and Craven and it doesn't spell out the T's and C's so it does it

49:05Corin Hardy:it basically says fast American at the bottom maybe it does

49:11Chris Hewitt:by the way, Perishment will continue Perishment will result as a result of this we recorded

49:18Corin Hardy:every actor recorded their own whispers screams backwards um that the the whispers that are all mixed into different layers in the film are even kind of meaningful in what they're saying so chris is hearing her dad's voice calling out to her right yeah like almost anything that would seduce you um into into it getting you to to to blow into it um so yeah we we recorded everyone as well doing uh dialogue um what i did is they learnt the line, then we recorded it, played it back backwards, got them to record it backwards, and then played it back forwards. So you'd get this really odd tone of voice of each of those actors whispering to themselves in reverse, just to kind of create this strange unnerving.

50:09Corin Hardy:So there's lots of different layers in the sound of it.

50:12Chris Hewitt:It's really interesting because I've seen the movie twice now, and second time around, I kind of something occurred to me that hadn't occurred to me first time around which is if I'm wrong here Corin is everybody who gets killed in this movie they all play the specter who's hunting them down or are you using doubles? Grace for example when Grace is being chased through the maze is she

50:36Corin Hardy:chasing herself or is that a double? So in terms of the concept obviously they are being hunted down by themselves but in a different guise, the guise of their own fate, however they end up. And that required, it's funny, on paper, on script, you just go, okay, that would be them hunting themselves down in some visual way. But actually, each death required a lot of different techniques, both with practical effects and puppetry and prosthetics and animatronics and visual effects. But the actual deaths of themselves, frequently, they would play themselves in some shots for some, for whatever the reason.

51:15Corin Hardy:Their future selves. But they would always, their future deaths, like being visited and, because they also get sort of visitations ahead of their actual facing their own death. I think it's like when death is, Ivy Ramos is when your death is close and it's like, you'll see it afar, it will be down the end of the corridor or it will be outside your window on a tree or it will be down the end of the sort of, on the other side of the swimming pool, but then gradually come the time, it's when it actually physically connects with you that it gives you its death. At that point, depending on how you end up, we're on a spoiler special so we can talk about.

51:53Corin Hardy:Of course we are, yeah. So, you know, beginning with Mason Raymore, whose probable death happens in, I think they say he died when he was 40 or mid-40s and of some kind of gas leak. so this guy probably perished in a house fire so his burnt self is what comes to pass its death onto him at the beginning of the movie but a lot of the time their death would have to be played by a double either a creature performer double because of certain movements or contortion movements or make-up requirements because a lot of creature performers have an incredible physicality to them. They have very long and slender necks and much slimmer faces or longer arms because when you're putting prosthetics on them, you end up building that out a little bit.

52:49Corin Hardy:And if you have someone who's already a regular build, they can look like a bulky... You want them to look like a burnt man or a cancerous character who's lost a lot of weight. It's harder to do that. So yeah, for the burnt man, We had a creature performer called Matt who actually played Mason's double as the burnt man, and he also played Percy Hines White's Noah Haggerty's death at the end. So he played two. We also had two performers playing Grace as the crone. So we had Kaylee and Toria. Kaylee was a dancer and Toria was a contortion artist. So for different shots in the maze and for Grace's crone self hunting herself down, the ancient sort of aged and very senile death, who's kind of like the crazy old lady version of Grace.

53:46Corin Hardy:For different shots, it was two different actresses in full body prosthetics with contact lenses and everything else. Because Toria could do these incredible contortions and she could hang upside down and drop down on her. She could stand up backwards. But it's also incredibly demanding, so it's helpful to have two.

54:13Corin Hardy:Daphne, as Chris, she played her own death, particularly for close-ups. But then we also had another two actresses playing her death as well. Naomi who was a stunt performer who could do Naomi and Jen I think were two stunt performers and again it sort of breaks down and we look at the storyboards for like the exact requirements so if you look at the end sequence when Daphne Keane is playing Chris grappling with her death in the in between zone as it was called, sort of in between life and death she's on wires she's suspended in a space that we were shooting in a studio, making it look like it was underwater.

54:56Corin Hardy:Oh, wow. Which was a big challenge to kind of create a sense of being underwater when we weren't in any tank. Honestly, you could have fooled me. I thought you were.

55:06Chris Hewitt:I was about to ask about this.

55:07Corin Hardy:Massive, yeah, I mean, we're jumping around. But yeah, huge, huge tribute to Bjorn Sharpentier, the DOP, who spent a long time figuring out how to make the most, you know, successful looking. Although we're not actually, we're in an in-between zone between life and death as opposed to in a real swimming pool or something but we wanted to go for that underwater feel so that was a case of using lots of high-powered fans um shooting in in you know fast um frame rate so it looks slow motion um using controlled different lights that are pulsing and changing and and yeah going back to the actress then um yeah you'd have Daphne Keane in the close-ups and and in the wide shots against a made-up double of herself playing Chris's death and then when you'd swap the angle Daphne Keane is done up as her death grappling against her double um so yeah so basically if you look at the credits you'll see a lot of stunts and creature performers because there's two to three playing each one of these characters in their deaths for different reasons.

56:16Chris Hewitt:That's amazing.

56:17Corin Hardy:That started to scramble my head just trying to remember. But it became quite daunting when you were like, which death is it? What stage is it? Which character is it? Do they have contact lenses or not contact lenses? Do they need to be on Ys or do they need to be... And actually Matt who played the burnt man also played Dean's death in the Dean's death bedroom scene. Oh really? Okay. As well as Twisty Troy who played Dean's contortion death double oh my Twisty Troy Twisty Troy who's incredible and he's been in a lot of great movies he's in Andre Overdahl's scary stories to tell in the dark you'll see him in that as the jingly jangly man I think he's cool wow his name's Twisty or Twisty Twisty Twisty Troy wow very condominative determinism and he can he can as well as Toria they can you know it's like their bones are made of rubber almost they can just get into some insane positions.

57:14Chris Hewitt:You talked about the opening death there. And you and I had spoken about this movie for the magazine. But I obviously knew that I knew the basic concept. Yeah. But I didn't know how the deaths were going to manifest themselves. And I was going in, I was wondering, is this going to be Final Destination-y in a way? I was waiting for an elaborate omen-style accident to befall Mason in that opening scene. And then when he burst into flames out of nowhere, I was stunned. I did not know what the hell was going on. And then, of course, you explain it later on. Can you talk about establishing the rules of N 'Choka and parsing it out through the film, leaving that air of mystery, I guess, as well?

58:00Corin Hardy:I think, first of all, the thing which both struck me about the idea in the mythology of when you hear the whistle scream, your future death will hunt you down, which was a really exciting, simple, elegant, scary mythology concept. But it's different to something like Final Destination in a subtle but important way, I think. In Final Destination, they cheat death, and a form of death will find its way to get them in a really elaborate, exciting way, depending on where they are in the environment. it's almost like the environment is part of that it's not tied into their personal fate that is sort of in Whistle it's very specific as as Ivy Ramos says when you are born so is your death and this was something that Owen explained early on that made me get a little chill down my spine Owen Edgerton was the sort of deeper conversation about mortality and this idea that you know, we are all going to die, we don't know when, and it could be in a week's time, it could be in 90 years' time, but the idea that your death is out there waiting for you, and if you blow on in choker and you hear it scream, it pulls that death to come to face you in the next couple of days or tomorrow or tonight.

59:29Corin Hardy:That was kind of chilling, and then it sort of, that determines the specificity of what your death is and how it's then going to materialise, which is great. But what is harder in a movie like this is you don't do the final destination thing where you show the situation that they all nearly died in. Yeah. And then they suddenly cheated it and then, you know, death comes for them in a different way. So we had to effectively sort of set up this concept where you don't know exactly how these people die and then sort of drip feed in through these visitations visually that these characters start to see almost like premonitions of what their future death will be.

1:00:13Corin Hardy:But we don't want to give it away. Yeah. We don't want to give it away, but we want to set it up. So my main concern was that we'd never be in a death sequence and not know what the hell's going on. Except maybe the first one, which is fine, because, you know, you don't know. And then they talk later. It's like, oh, they do some research and say, or he found out he was killed in a gas leak. So Mr. Craven, he died of stage four cancer, but they're sort of like, yeah, but like 10 or 15 years, but not yesterday, you know, like when it was fine. But he's obviously, so they all have hints, you know, Craven.

1:00:45Chris Hewitt:I like the air of mystery, and I like that it wasn't what I was expecting it to be, which was a series of unfortunate accidents befalling these poor souls. And of course, each death scene as well, is accompanied by, and I really got this yesterday because I saw it on the big screen, by this crunching whistle, almost musical motif that accompanies it. Can you talk us through that?

1:01:13Corin Hardy:Yeah, I'd love to. I mean, again, tribute to Doomphonic, the composer, who's very classically trained in the John Williams school of thematic scoring and characters having themes. And we knew early on, inspired by the likes of Michael Myers' Halloween theme or Jaws theme or character themes within movies, that we definitely wanted the whistle itself to have its own. It's kind of almost like a victory theme of when it finally gets you, it takes your life, it gives you its death. and there is a repeating kind of motif in that, which is a bit like a ticking clock catching up to get you and then kind of like being...

1:01:59Corin Hardy:And it actually changed because in early cuts, we had a slower kind of quite bold. It was like a kind of boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, like the whistle did it. And now it's got this kind of like...

1:02:21Corin Hardy:So it's a sort of an earworm. I mean, it's not quite as sort of musical that it's a jingle.

1:02:27Chris Hewitt:Yeah, no, no.

1:02:28Corin Hardy:But it is a death jingle, I guess. And I suppose I wanted to inject a certain energy into the overall movie that ties in with the sort of soundtrack of bands a bit and the influences on there and you hear some prodigy in there and some of the electronic stuff that gives you, helps sort of the kinetic momentum of the experience of the movie in the cinema. So it kind of, it isn't a sort of slow paced, it has tension and mood and everything, but it's almost like there's a slight kind of celebration when the whistle achieves its next victim.

1:03:06Chris Hewitt:And that was Corin Hardy spoiling the shit out of Whistle, which is in cinemas right now, folks. And if you want to hear the rest of that interview, there's well over an hour left. And if you want to subscribe to the Empire Podcast spoiler specials, it is just£3.49 a month. And that gives you access to every single spoiler special we've done. And that number is growing all the time and by the week. We're at about 500 now with hundreds, if not thousands of hours of content, including interviews with some of the greatest directors on the planet just waiting to be discovered. Go to empire.supportingcast.fm for more details and, of course, to sign up.

1:03:50Chris Hewitt:And with that very shameless plug, that is it for this episode of The Interviews. Well, bar two more very shameless plugs, one of which is for The Shameless Plug, another spin-off show in which I sit down with Empire editor Nick DeSimlian and do a deep dive into the new issue of Empire Magazine. That's going up tomorrow, Thursday, and then on Friday, in fact every Friday, we have the regular Empire podcast featuring myself, Helen O 'Hara, James Dyer, and Mike Munser making his full Empire debut this week. We'll also have an interview on that with the testament of Anne Lee's star-director combo Amanda Seyfried and Mona Fastfold.

1:04:27Chris Hewitt:Available wherever you cast your pods. Right, that is enough from me. We'll be back next week with another cracking episode of The Interviews. In the meantime, thanks so much for listening. See you next time. Bye-bye.