The Life Of Custard (ft. guests Joaquin Phoenix; Tom Hiddleston & Chiwetel Ejiofor; Samara Weaving & Karl Glusman)

33:11I wanted to care about Joe, and I wanted to understand that he was motivated oftentimes by these very simple human things that we all are motivated by. um and so i hope that that that came uh across and i certainly didn't i certainly wanted to challenge uh what an audience's preconceptions of a sheriff um a conservative sheriff in a small town might be like has this experience been you know it was a traumatic year 2020 you know it is something that we've all found challenging in different ways. But has the process of making this film been sort of clarifying or even healing for you, to use a grand term?

34:06I don't know about healing.

34:13I don't know. I suppose, again, it was just a reminder to not be so fucking reactionary and emotional when things happen that i don't fully understand or beyond my control and to have a little bit of uh empathy for people who seem to express different opinions in my own um to have like a little bit of understanding and that felt important because I think that more than anything, what's obvious is that we became so separated, or maybe that separation that already existed was exacerbated, but it just became these wildly divergent ideas of what was important and what was safe and what was wrong in the world.

35:09and I think that we fail to see how often we probably were aligned and those kind of what fundamentally makes us safe and happy and so maybe that hopefully this film allows people to do that to both be to laugh at themselves and those kind of absurd moments and also maybe just yeah, as I said, afford each other some grace and kindness and understanding. Yeah. Yeah, that's really nice. Joaquin, I could speak to you about this film for hours, but it's been a real pleasure chatting to you for this brief time. Yeah, you as well. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, I appreciate it. You too. Take care.

35:59Chris Hewitt:All right. That was Joaquin Phoenix talking about Eddington, and we'll be talking about Eddington, or rather Helen will, and maybe Harry? I've seen it. Helen and Harry will both be talking about Eddington later in the show. Thank God, some are professionals on this panel this week. Now it's time to talk about the week's moving news. What has been happening, folks? And where has it been happening? Why has it been happening? How has it been happening? And who has it been happening to? We have some Spider-Man brand new day casting news. Over the last few weeks, we've been hearing of various people joining the cast.

36:30And the latest is Severance's Trammell Tillman, who has joined the cast in an undisclosed role. I'm liking all the oohs from this I'm excited about it, he's cool, he's very cool in Severance Yeah, it's interesting because we've actually not got a big part of the cast it's like we don't know who the villain is we've heard lots of stuff online I think when this got announced a lot of people were like, oh, maybe he's the villain but it's like when Donald Glover got announced for Homecoming and everyone thought he'd have this massive role and it was obviously a very small role so you just don't know with these MCU films but as probably the standout of Severance and then also Mission Impossible recently as well I think he's an actor to be watched and has a presence that is really great so I actually really like the idea of him being in a Spider-Man film Are we in a different kind of universe at this point?

37:17Like could he be a J. Jonah Jameson?

37:19Chris Hewitt:I don't think we are no I don't think we're not we're not there yet are we? We're not like reality has been changed but it's not a fully it's not a full shift The J. Jonah Jameson of this world would be there is J.K. Simmons Yeah okay just checking I just wanted to check What about kind of like a Norman Osborn, potentially, is what I... Because we've not had that in this version of Spider-Man yet. Interesting. There have been rumors. People are trying to figure out who the bad guy or bad guys are, is slash are, in Spider-Man Brand New Day, which, in case you don't know, is directed by Destin Daniel Cretton, who, of course, last directed Shang-Chi in A Legend of the Ten Rings.

37:54The first of many Shang-Chi films, right? I feel like there must have been...

37:58Chris Hewitt:Yeah, there's been like five. There should have been at least three. Well, he was so bored with directing all those Shang-Chi movies. that he jumped over to Spider-Man. And he was announced also as a director of what was then Avengers, the Kang Dynasty. So Marvel clearly like him. And production is happening right now. This movie is filming right now. And the cast that has been announced is very intriguing. My birthday buddy, my birthday bro. Oh, yeah. Jon Bernthal is in it. Yeah, as the Punisher. So that's interesting. Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner slash the Hulk. I'll be interested to see which iteration, maybe both.

38:35Chris Hewitt:So he'll be the big kind of Marvel heavy hitter that they usually station. You know, obviously in Homecoming, it was Tony Stark. In Far From Home, it was Nick Fury, or was it? And in No Way Home, it was Doctor Strange. So I guess Mark Ruffler will be that big MCU heavy hitter sitting alongside Tom Holland, because as we know, Spider-Man is not an MCU heavy hitter. I don't know. But I was really excited to see this casting news because Tramiel Tillman's fantastic. Lisa Collins-Saias from The Bear is also in it. We're getting the return of Michael Mando as Scorpion who was seen right at the end of Homecoming meeting Michael Keaton's fulcher in prison.

39:17Chris Hewitt:I'm particularly pleased to see that Sandia and Jacob Batalon are in this as MJ and Ned because the end of No Way Home was quite sad for Peter Parker. his friends did not know who he was and so how is this film going to address that? Is he going to stalk MJ, spider stalker throughout the course of the movie? I hope not. But I hope that those kids reconnect organically. Absolutely. Anything else? Yeah, a couple of other big people involved in big things. Zack Snyder is back, not launching his snack cider, Chris, sorry. Oh, God damn it. That day still awaits us. but he is apparently finally directing his war drama The Last Photograph and this is another thing that has been kind of talked about mooted for a very long time yes indeed now and it won't be quite as epic as most of his films are in terms of you know just budget and scale and scope but it is going to shoot like in I think they mentioned three countries around the world Colombia, Iceland and LA and it's about a former DEA operative who has to return to South America looking for his missing niece and nephew after their parents are brutally murdered.

40:34And he has to have a washed-up junkie war photographer help him out because he's the only person who has seen the faces of the killers.

40:43Chris Hewitt:Okay, this is a feel-good fare? It doesn't sound like super feel-good fare. No. Apparently it's going to star Stuart Martin and Fraffy, who were both in Rebel Moon. Fraffy doesn't work for free. One would hope not. If you can do something well, never do it for free. Absolutely. So, yeah, they obviously both have forum with Snyder, but I think it's kind of interesting to see him trying something very different tonally from his last few films and moving on from Rebel Moon. Yes. And as you say, this is something he's been trying to make for years. It's a very, very personal movie to him. I'm excited.

41:19Chris Hewitt:I say more power to his elbow. Stuart Martin was not only in Rebel Moon, but it was also in Army of Thieves, which was the Army of the Dead spinoff, which was on Netflix. And Fraffy, doesn't work for free, was in Rebel Moon as well. Yes. We're off to Rebel Moon. We've followed Mr. Rebel, Rebel Moon. Oh, boy. Yeah. Anyway, good times. Good times. Well done. Well done, Zack Snyder. Hey, speaking of visionary directors. Sure. Guillermo del Toro. Love him. Frankenstein. Love it. Has finally had a release date confirmed. So it's going to be on Netflix in November, which is exciting, of course. Of course.

42:08But you're thinking to yourself, hey, Chris, this is Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein.

42:12Chris Hewitt:I want to see that motherfucker on the big screen. You're reading my mind. Yes, I have. Good news for you, because it is one of those rare Netflix movies that is getting a cinematic release. The Thirsty Murder Club is one that's getting a theatrical release this week and it's on Netflix next week. But anyway, so Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein, you'll be able to see The Majesty unfurl on the big screen. Jacob Elordi, Gouda Elordi, Oscar Isaac, Mia Goth, Christoph Waltz, all of them on the big screen, 17th of October. I can feel myself getting gothier at the prospect. Mia gothier? Yeah, sure.

42:48I'm just like, I'm so in for this. just the aesthetic the vibes oh immaculate

42:54Chris Hewitt:can't wait me? a goth? okay that's how she just said that's exciting so it is very exciting I mean Halloween season I think there's nothing more perfect for it and also can we just bully Netflix into releasing more of their films in the cinemas because the idea that this wouldn't have been in the cinema is like bonkers to me it's upsetting yeah a big Guillermo del Toro Frankenstein is exactly the kind of film that deserves to be seen on the big screen so I'm just like is there a way we can like be more mean to them so they do it more often. I don't think that's I don't think they folded because people were mean to them.

43:28Chris Hewitt:I think they're pretty much inured to that. I've been sending really horrible messages to them. Oh, have you? Okay. Yeah. From your Empire email address? Yeah. Okay. Way to crack that code. They did it. That's definitely the thought process that happened. Yeah, I think you're right. Ah, dear. This could be the best Frankenstein movie, of course, since I, Franken-Ranken, starring Aaron Eckhart. do you remember that bus I remember what was the other one the the Daniel Radcliffe oh yes Victor Frankenstein was his name Victor Frankenstein began life as Igor and then got massively changed yeah this is this is going to be good I'm going to I'm going to go out there on a limb and say that this is going to be one of those rare modern Frankenstein movies that are good I am I am 100 % confident of that I'm 99 % confident of that I don't want to Assume I'm not going in with an open mind.

44:22My mind is 1 % open. But Guillermo del Toro makes Frankenstein. Come on, who doesn't want to see that?

44:28Chris Hewitt:Come on. Who doesn't want to see that? Absolutely. What a monster. Yeah. Guy Pearce is starring as Rupert Murdoch in Ink. You know, I'm used to them casting better looking people in biopics. Yeah. This is a glow up. I'm looking at pictures of a young Rupert Murdoch right now, which was a really long time ago, just FYI. Let me see that. there's someone he looks there's a little bit of Ernest Borgnine something like that I don't know but yes not Guy Pearce you don't think of Guy Pearce I don't think but I guess you know Australian you know I don't know I'm he'll have the accent he'll have the accent down pat will Guy Pearce he will yeah but this is this is a new Danny Boyle film it is a new Danny Boyle film yes and in Danny Boyle we trust very much like Guillermo del Toro and Visionary Danny Boyle.

45:19Visionary Danny Boyle. It's based on the play that did run in London back in the 2010s, late 2010s. And it's about Murdoch acquiring the son and hiring Larry Lamb to run it, who the rumor has it might be Jack O 'Connell.

45:37Chris Hewitt:Jack O 'Connell is Larry Lamb. Maybe he's handling his carrots from 28 years later in the reunion. Yes, yes, of course. Danny Boyle just worked with Jack O 'Connell. On 28 Years Later. That's interesting and exciting. I will say, though, this is apparently going to be starting filming in October. So where does this leave the third film in the 28 Years Later trilogy? Now, the next film in that supposed trilogy, The Bone Temple, directed by Nia DaCosta, that's going to be out in January, which I discovered this week is coming out 28 weeks after 28 Years Later. Oh, that's nice. I had not put that together.

46:19Chris Hewitt:Oh, that's very nice. I appreciate that. Had you put that together, Harry? No, but good marketing. Very, very good marketing. It's hard to tell people. It is, yeah. Someone else told me. But anyway, it's not like I sat down with a calendar and went, oh, yeah. But that's coming out in January. Now, they haven't announced the third and final part of that Muda trilogy yet. I hope that this doesn't mean that it's unlikely. That it moves 28 years later. I don't think it should be. I mean, that 28 years later did very well at the box office. It did well. I think it did very well for an R-rated film.

46:54Sequelizing a film, you know, really.

46:56Chris Hewitt:It may not have done well enough for the bean counters, those infernal bean counters. I think if it had done well enough to get the third movie greenlit, we would have had it greenlit already. But hopefully... Unless, just to like, you know, not devil's advocate, but advocate, maybe honestly I can see Danny Boyle just having shot it over the summer on his iPhone I mean I don't believe I don't believe he has shot it over the summer do you reckon they're waiting to see how the bone temple performs I think it might be as much as that film has been really critically well received I do know that like even like talking to people that I know have seen it some people do love it more than others and it is like quite a strange it's divisive it's a divisive film and maybe that might be making the studio feel a little bit hesitant possibly to do a third one without seeing how the response of the second one is.

47:49That's like what my gut says. But from everything we're seeing and hearing about the Bone Temple, it does seem like more of a traditional follow-up. I know they've not used iPhones for this one. It was just mentioned the other day. Oh, they used actual cameras. They used actual cameras. So yeah, I think I'd be interested to see how that one turns out and also I think we may be waiting on that one to see if a third 28 years.

48:12Chris Hewitt:I think that's probable, but if that means... I mean, I can't even remember. I did a Q &A with Danny Boyle. Is this written? I think it might be written. So Alex Garland has written it and now they're just waiting to see. I think he said he's got like a... A treatment. A treatment for it. So he knows what happens, but he hasn't written it yet. That's right, yes. Okay, but I hope that it happens. We will say that Danny Boyle is incredibly speedy. he's very prolific so there's a chance that he might shoot ink in October be finished in December have it out in March then Bone Temple's done gangbusters the third movie gets announced he starts filming it by April it's in cinemas by that Wednesday well what's 28 what's 28 weeks from January I don't know I don't know either but maybe why am I sweating it's six months it's six months six months so July August July August you're suggesting that he will film this movie yeah and have it in cinemas yeah 28 weeks later I believe in Danny Boyle I believe in Harvey Dent I believe in all sorts of things I believe in an iPhone 10's camera I think filmmakers should impose those restrictions on themselves more often you know I think I mean look I mean you know what Jesse Armstrong did Mountainhead in One Weekend I mean yes that's how long it took a weekend I'm only slightly exaggerating.

49:37And what would have made Mountainhead better? Infected. Oh my, genuinely, that's kind of where I thought the film was going. I thought it was going to be much more riot-y than it was. Yes. But yeah, I think he could do it. I believe in him.

49:51Chris Hewitt:I believe, I believe in Danny Boyle. Very sad news to finish off the movie news section. We lost the great Terrence Stamp this week. He passed away at the age of 87. one of the greats I would say certainly one of the giants of British acting over the last Jesus started off in the 60s he did yeah what a man what a legend Terrence Stab was Billy Budd far from the madding crowd worked with Pasolini worked with Fellini worked with them all the hit Stephen Freer's the hit Stephen Soderbergh's the limey there's a staircase in the Toucan pub in London which bears a quote that he said on the set of Last Night in Soho which was his last movie last movie also Diana Riggs last movie interestingly enough and of course General Sod General Sod in Superman and Superman 2 he was a wonderful wonderful actor inspiration partially at least he is name checked along with Julie Christie in the Kinks Waterloo Sunset.

51:07Chris Hewitt:I'm saying you have lived a hell of a life if you were name-checked in a Kinks song. I think he was one of the embodiments of the swinging 60s, wasn't he? I mean, his first film, you mentioned Billy Budd, 1962, got an Oscar nomination for that and kind of seemed to just take off running for the rest of that decade. And along the way, yes, it was romantically linked. Poor Cow. Poor Cow as well, yeah. Was linked with Julie Christie and Jean Shrimpton, like arguably the two hottest women in the world of the 1960s. And, you know, and just seemed to be kind of unstoppable as a filmmaker or as a film star.

51:49I love the story. I was obviously reading a lot about him this week and I came across a couple of things I hadn't heard before. One of them was the reason that he semi-dropped out for much of the 70s was that he heard from his agent that people were asking around for a young Terran stamp type. And he was like, I'm like 30, guys. He was being told he was over the hill already. And I think that kind of caused a bit of a crisis of confidence along with his breakup with Shrimpton. And he essentially went off to India to study. To find himself. Yeah, to study with Krishnamurti and live in an ashram and so on.

52:25And was sort of lured back almost directly onto the set of Superman. which must have been they left breadcrumbs

52:32Chris Hewitt:I mean like not far off they left there was he got back he checked in like every six months or something at a hotel in case there was a message from him and there was one from his agent and he calls up to reply to the message and they're like they want you for Superman Superman he said he was also I think you know Priscilla Queen of the Desert is one that a lot of people have been going back to this week as well I watched it this weekend literally just gone yeah he's weirdly like one of them people that's similar to Gene Hackman, who you can't picture him not on your screens. So the idea that he's gone is very weird.

53:06But yeah, watching Priscilla Quinn in the desert, I was like, he is just a powerhouse in that film. And yeah, I have just really fond memories of that film in general. So yeah, I think I'll be very sad not to see him on our screens because he's been such a constant present for the last, what, 80 odd years? Yeah, certainly 60. I think, I mean, Last Night in Soho was kind of a lovely swan song in some way. because it played directly into that reputation he had in the 60s and that status that he had that was smart at the time, but now feels just full circle.

53:39Chris Hewitt:Yeah, very much so. As did Delimy, of course, which is great. Tell him I'm coming! Tell him I'm fucking coming! So good. And, you know, yes, it's us, so we're going to talk about S.O.D. S.O.D. is just one of the greatest fill-in performances of all time. He is mesmerizing in Superman 2 in particular. There are so many S.O.D. lines that I quote on a virtually daily basis. More than daily, some would be. Sometimes hourly, sometimes minutely. But he was just absolutely incredible. One of the things I love about his performance as General S.O.D. is how he can go from a very, very posh received pronunciation.

54:24Chris Hewitt:Who is this Superman? to full-on Cockney, sometimes in the same sentence, Superman! You know, it's so, so much fun. Who are you to say what a Kryptonian accent sounds like? Precisely, right? Precisely. But what I love about him is that sense that he's kind of watching and assessing and weighing up and strategizing for so much of the movie. Like he's figuring out what his and the group's abilities are and figuring out what the hell everyone's talking about. He has no context for Australia. Lex Luthor, ruler of Australia. Yeah. Like, what the hell is Australia? Do I want to give that up? I don't know.

55:04Do I care? Probably not, but maybe.

55:06Chris Hewitt:I mean, he's not giving it up for a second. He's double-crossing Luther. Of course he is. I mean, come on. No, but he's thinking things through, is what I'm saying. He's deciphering as he goes. It's that sense of intelligence and, like, planning that I freaking love about him. He's so cool. He is so cool. And let's be honest, he does it all whilst wearing a leather onesie. and was split to the navel. This is a man, General Saud, I would posit, who fucks with custard. I bet he does. He was one of our first guests on the Empire podcast. He came in years ago. Do you remember when the podcast first started and we were all terrified?

55:44Chris Hewitt:I mean, we still are, existentially. But we were terrified of doing interviews on mic. And so the way we would get around it is that we would interview people en masse, so to speak. So we would have guests come into the studio, and it wouldn't be me interviewing Terence Stamp. It was three of us. Yeah. Three of us were sat around the table interviewing Terence Stamp. I quite enjoyed that. So that sounds way less intimidating than what we have to do now. Yeah, well, what it meant was if you dried up, which, you know, because we were very nervous back then, if you dried up with a question, you could just kind of look at...

56:16Chris Hewitt:I can't remember who was in... I know Phil DeSemley was in the room. I don't know, were you there for that one? I don't remember. I'm looking up right now. And you would kind of nod. Okay, you take the next question because I've got nothing. But he was so lovely and so warm. And you're just slightly intimidated by the fact that it's Terrence Stamp. You know, it's the Limey. It's General fucking Zod coming into the room. But he was so lovely. I remember walking him out of the building afterwards. And Phil asked him in the lift on the way down, is it true that it was you whose name checked in Waterloo Sunset?

56:49Chris Hewitt:And he was like, yeah, that's me. That's me. Me and Julie. yeah oh he was so great he was so fucking great and I was so so happy to have met him and yes I chickened out of asking him to go to do a little eye dent for the show going this is Terrence Stamp kneel before pod I wish I'd done it Terrence Stamp the legendary Terrence Stamp who passed away this week at the age of 87 Okay, shall we have a second guest? Let's. Or shall I say a second tranche of guests? There are more guests, by the way. I'm going to be doing interview specials with Ava Fichter, who is the director of this week's excellent Sorry Baby.

57:29Chris Hewitt:I think I'm going to put that up as a separate interview, so keep an appeal for that. And also MJ Bassett, who is the director of Red Sonja, which came out this week on digital and which will be out on Shiny Discs on September 8th, I believe. And MJ came into this studio last week and we had a cracking chat. Very wide ranging, a whole lot of areas covered. And that'll be going up as his own special as well at some point in between, I think, the digital and Shiny Disc releases. but this week alone we have many many guests Tom Hiddleston, should we tell Edge over? Absolutely Should we do that? Alright, so they are the stars of The Life of Chuck which is the latest Mike Flanagan Stephen King adaptation but don't worry folks, this one won't terrify you in the way that Gerald's Game or Doctor Sleep did this is a much more philosophical joyous-ish question mark?

58:29Chris Hewitt:Positive? Question mark? Life-affirming? Question mark? Life-affirming tick. Yeah. Adaptation of a recent Stephen King novella, which is very difficult to talk about. So good luck when we're reviewing it. What can we say? This is about someone called Charles Krantz. Charles Krantz in this movie is played by a number of actors, but he is played in his middle age by Tom Hiddleston. All right, we can say that. We can say there's a big old scene where Tom Hiddleston does a dance in public. We can say that. We can also say, I think, because this is fundamental to the film, that it plays out backwards.

59:15Chris Hewitt:So we get Act 3 first, Act 2 second, as is tradition, and Act 1 last. All right? I think we can say that Chiwetel Ejiofor plays Marty Anderson, who is a high school teacher who is facing what seems like the end of the world. Always have a great time talking to Tom Hiddleston and Chiwetel Ejiofor. And here they are. Enjoy. Tom Chiwetel, welcome to the Emperor Podcast. How are you both? We're well. Good, good, good. Funnily to be here. What can we say about the life of Chuck? what can we say about the life of Chuck? We can say any number of things about the life of Chuck. Okay, all right. Hit me with one.

1:00:01Chris Hewitt:Because I'm worried about, I'm tiptoeing around spoilers a lot here. I think this is an extraordinary film, but it's tough to talk about. But there's a wider conversation about life and the joy of life and acceptance. I think we can maybe start with that. I would say, maybe I could say this. Okay. It's called The Life of Chuck. Yes. Spoiler. But there's one. And I play Chuck. I'm one of four versions of Chuck at different ages of his life. But I think it is the story as it has arrived from the mind of Stephen King, and I think really magnificently adapted by Mike Flanagan, is ostensibly about Chuck's life, but it's about all of our lives.

1:00:50Yes. And I think Chuck is a sort of mirror for each of us in whatever way you connect to it, which is why I would hate to prescribe how any individual person connects to the film because I think actually the connections are personal. but Chuck is seemingly in the external world a very ordinary man and he might seem if you saw him on the street unremarkable it might be easy to reduce him to the job he does or the clothes he's wearing and say I'm pretty sure I know who that guy is and the film suggests that we all have an internal world of infinite possibility.

1:01:36Chris Hewitt:Yeah. That we contain multitudes. We are all many things. And it's that the richness of our internal worlds, the love we shared with the people who raised us, the joy we carry from the memories we treasure, becomes the courage we need when it feels like the world is falling apart. and that maybe that those things, those seemingly small moments in life, our specific connections to people, our specific memories, our relationships, our people, they are the things that will remain. Actually, that's the whole point of life. I think it's really, it's only sort of occurred to me very recently that it's the word life in the title.

1:02:29and the film of course contemplates that all lives come to an end but actually life is the thing it lands on the side of life um and you know it worth saying it's by the great Stephen King and who also wrote the Shawshank Redemption yes indeed and Chewis and I have often discussed um the other great um or many of course many great adaptations but when we love in the Shawshank Redemption with that famous line, get busy living, get busy dying. And I think the film perhaps suggests it's a sort of restatement of get busy living. Yeah, very much so.

1:03:04Chris Hewitt:Do you want to tell? How did I do? I think we're done. I don't know how to follow that. Yeah, you do. It's almost like you read that off an autocue. I don't know. It's one set of fire in my shoulder. I was in a completely different movie. I don't know.

1:03:21Follow that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, no, I agree. I agree. It's, you know, there's a lot going on in this film. Yeah. And I think that it's, one of the things that Thomas was saying was about, you know, just how everybody can bring their own experiences to it, you know, and they can read into it a lot of, you know, a lot of what they've seen, you know, and there are kind of like three different films going on for a while in the story. And one of those films is quite an apocalyptic tale. And in some ways, the story kind of ends up being a life-affirming apocalyptic tale. And people find connections.

1:04:05They find love. They find reconnection. Certainly my character does. And that's part of what the story is talking about. It's about the connection between people, which can be very immediate or can be in memory. It can be in experiences that you hold that you think some of them you've forgotten, you know, that you don't consciously think about certain people or certain things. And then in a moment of crisis, maybe they pop up and how they've shaped and influenced you. And these might be people you've met fleetly or these might be people who play a specific part. They may have been educators. They may have been, you know, just, you know, first loves.

1:04:47They might have been all of these kinds of people that maybe later in life you don't think of that often. And that's one of the things that I really love about this story, that it refocuses on that. The people that are held in our memories that maybe we don't consciously think of all that much, but are there.

1:05:05Chris Hewitt:Tom, over the years, we've spoken about your approach to acting and how you break down roles. I've seen, I think it was High Rise, I saw your High Rise screenplay where you scrolled in the margins of it and you're very meticulous in your preparations. Juatel, I imagine you're much the same in how you approach a character and how you break it down. Are you? I don't know. How do you go about it? I mean, it depends. I always think of it as a kind of meta exercise, that you spend a lot of time as an actor, or at least I do, thinking about how to start thinking about it. you know, because you can, I found in the past that you can, if you try to have a sort of template that it doesn't, it's not, it's not for me one size fits all, you know?

1:05:48So if you try and sort of apply something that you just sort of apply to a character, you can find that you go off in a direction that hasn't really helped you for a while. And then you discover that actually, you know, I can understand this character better if I can lift a heavy weight or if I can run a few miles or if I can, you know, or and there's some characters where I have to do a lot of research and that's the only way I can get into the psychology of this character onto the part. It just, it depends on what the, what the, what the character is sort of speaking to, I think. What was the way in with Marty?

1:06:21With Marty, I think it's, it's, it's Stephen King, you know, I think it's, it's realizing that what's, what Stephen King does so beautifully in, in his work and a lot of the great adaptations of his work is that even from reading it, images start to pop up and an emotion. You know, I think also it's what Mike Flanagan is after in this. There's a tonality to the work that I think if you sit in the tonality, then you kind of, then it clicks together. You know, I think for Marty, there was just this sort of, there was an, you know, he's, these are people who are going through this apocalyptic moment, but they're not in terror.

1:07:00You know, they are, there's a kind of, they've allowed themselves. There's an acceptance there. Yeah, they've allowed themselves acceptance, but beyond that, they've allowed themselves a certain, and Marty has a certain gratitude for what has been. Yeah. And I think that that creates a certain kind of state. And it felt true. And that was the thing, I think. It's trying to go after, why does this, when I was reading it, why does this feel true to me? What is the tonality? What is the emotion of this that feels accurate to the way that we all experience some of the traumas that we've had? And we had a collective trauma in COVID, you know, where there wasn't a one of us who wasn't worried about something or someone, you know, that was close to us.

1:07:43And, you know, so we know some of that, the ideas of that acceptance, the ideas of that gratitude. And so there's something that needs that I felt was sitting into that. and I think Mike did a great job as well, Mike Flanagan, with creating an overall atmosphere on set, cast, crew, every head of department, where everybody was sitting in this tone. The conversations were always sitting in this tone and I think that that all translated into the film. So that was the kind of weigh-in for me.

1:08:13Chris Hewitt:Amazing. Now, Tom, follow that. There we go, yeah. In terms of your approach, it isn't a one-size-fits-all thing for you. Never, no. I mean, you mentioned High Rise, I think, because that was an adaptation of a novel. I just wanted to be so respectful of the depth and complexity of the novel. And so it was almost using aspects of what J.G. Ballard had written. Because also novelists give you interiority. And as an actor, that can be so rich. For Chuck, it was completely different in a way. I had such an immediate instinctive response to the screenplay. I found it very moving and thrilling, and I could see it.

1:08:59And I was so grateful to Mike for asking me to play him. And, you know, the apocalyptic element really had nothing to do with me and all the things that Chiwetel has to do in the film and all the things that Mark Hamill has to do in the film and Mia Sarah and Samantha Sloyan and Kate Siegel. That was all another, Carl Lumley, another department. But the thing I knew I had to do and the thing was just very, very clear to me was I had to seem like a very ordinary middle-aged accountant who, I think no spoilers here, puts his briefcase down on the way to work one day and starts listening to the beat of the drums played by a busking drummer and dances.

1:09:48And that suddenly this explosion of freedom and spontaneity and joy expresses all these other elements of who he is. So those things were working in a kind of magical tension for me, that he was very still, very contained, very moderate, mild-mannered, and otherwise unremarkable, and suddenly this explosion of freedom. But it's free and precise and joyful and generous and wanting to make sure those things were there. And so, you know, working a lot with Terry Anderson, and our costume designer on, you know, on the clothing and the look of it. So he was quite a sort of mild manner contained person.

1:10:43And then working with our choreographers, Mandy Moore and Stephanie Powell, on this dance sequence, which was such a thrill and a challenge. It's new for me in terms of the precision and the technique of the styles that contain within it.

1:10:58Chris Hewitt:Yeah, it goes back to that word life again. Yeah. You know, Chuck burst into life at the moment. It's extraordinary. How long did it take to shoot? The dance sequence? Four days. Well, four days. Must be exhausted. It requires some stamina. Yeah. But we decided to do it because Mike and Eben, his cinematographer, had, I think, had never done a dance sequence like this, and they wanted it to contain, as a piece of cinema, references to the great, you know, old musicals of the golden age of Hollywood. So that there were references to Fred and Ginger Numbers from Swing Time or Fred Astaire and Rita Hayworth from You'll Never Get Rich or Rita Hayworth and Gene Kelly in Cover Girl.

1:11:46Gene Kelly, maybe the greatest to ever do it in Singing in the Rain. That there were ways of covering this moment that felt like it was spontaneous, but it was also cinematic and had it in its DNA. So to cut a long story short, we filmed it between around sort of just after 10 o 'clock in the morning to 3.30 in the afternoon across four days. So we had consistent overhead outdoor light so that Mike in the edit could use anything he wanted. And the camera was in completely different positions on those four days. You know, an old-fashioned way and by the third day it was on a steadicam or on a crane the camera was dancing with us and around us and behind us and below us and above us and among us was almost another character so but I can't explain it we never we never chopped it up we did it start to finish every time because we realized it just had to be if something happened it had to be that way and so we did it it's a seven minute sequence and we must have done I don't know 20 takes, 15 takes a day.

1:13:00It was really fun. Yeah. Amazing. It's exhausting just thinking. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to have my light down for a second.

1:13:08Chris Hewitt:But you were telling us you're in a slightly different part of the movie. Yeah. I think it's safe to say that. But you're reading the screenplay and you read that. I don't know if you've read the novella before that. No, not before the screenplay, yeah. And this extraordinary sequence. What did that read like on the page? What did the whole thing read like on the page? Well, I just thought it was, I mean, by that point, you know i was deep down the rabbit hole which you know because i because there's a mystery in this story and uh and part of the mystery is you know for marty uh you know it's who is chuck who is what is the life of chuck who is this guy and um and so and i think that that was my experience reading it you know that i was uh by that point i was just very much involved in i was very entertained by it and I was very involved in where is this going and who is this guy and what is it all what does it all mean uh and I found myself moved by it and then I think when I was reading this I was like you know when I was reading this moment in the script and this dance I was like

1:14:18oh they got the right guy for it yeah it feels like tom just improvise

1:14:23Chris Hewitt:it was in the script it was like chuck doesn't dance and tom was like no

1:14:32Chris Hewitt:do you improvise dancing in all your films let's get that rumor started and then they just cut the cut off i don't know if i've ever danced in a film before I did dance in high rise, but I've never, ever danced like this, truly. And it was, because it had to be this almost tribute to all the things he loved as a child, that he was taught to dance by his grandmother in their kitchen at home. And that's a precious memory, a treasured memory for him, of his grandmother, of someone who loved him and raised him. and then dancing became something he did at school and he got taken through all the styles, you know, jazz and swing and cha-cha and the polka and the Charleston.

1:15:20And, yeah, so the sequence had to be a tribute to all of that, I suppose. But it's funny because I also, when I read it, just hearing you talk, Chiwetel, in the Marty section, I felt, when I read it, of course, I had the same feeling. Who's Chuck? Mike's house, we play Chuck. Who is this guy? Because I don't want to spoil things, but of course there's a mystery. But then when you start talking about, I hope this isn't a spoiler either, but you start talking about Carl Sagan and the cosmic calendar, which is really a kind of a theory of the history of the universe and what a short time the human race has occupied on that scale.

1:16:12It made me feel this very reassuring feeling that I sometimes feel, you know, on an enormous eternal mountain range or when you're swimming in the sea or, you know, you sometimes find yourself in life feeling very, very small in a good way, in a way that's like, oh, my time here is really short. And there are these forces in the universe that are enormous and eternal. And that section, I was like, oh, this is so... I had this reassuring feeling of time is... The idea of time is bigger than I can conceive. And my life is a dot on the diagram. And it's a sort of... It makes you feel humble and sort of...

1:17:00I don't know, it makes me feel very calm. Because how can you... You can't possibly take account of the history of the universe. And yet all we have is now and we have our lives and they're short, but they're precious.

1:17:16Chris Hewitt:Yeah. It's extraordinary. And the pale blue dot just makes you feel so insignificant. But as you said, get busy living, get busy dying. Yeah. It is about that. It's embracing it. And I think many people will feel galvanized by this movie in a way. They may change their lives in this way. I watched it. I loved it but I got up at four this morning and I'm still going through the grind but maybe you're going to go and dance tomorrow yeah when I leave this place maybe I will dance maybe that's the lesson of the life of Chuck yeah but it doesn't have to be dancing well yes but if you see some newspaper headlines someone arrested in Leicester Square for dancing that might be me I'll come and join you it sounds like it's going to go viral I think about to go viral amazing Joe Tom it's been a pleasure thanks for having to leave okay that was Tom Hiddleston and Chiwetel Ejiofor and now let's get straight into it shall we?

1:18:13Chris Hewitt:The reviews section of the show, there's a lot to talk about this week, a lot of good movies are out this week Life of Chuck is one of them, Hell's Bells yes, can you tell us about the life of the Chuck? I'm going to try I will say that so yes, this is obviously a Mike Flanagan Stephen King joint as you've said already it plays out kind of in reverse across three acts the first act I find very scary and disturbing the second act I find very lovable and the third act was maybe a mix of the two in some ways and sort of reveals what's going on obviously but can't be say much more than that about it I think it's been quite divisive in the sense that most people I know of have really enjoyed this and I really enjoyed this for the most part after getting over the upset of the first third.

1:19:09I think some people have found it a little bit simplistic maybe in some of the stuff that it says, but I think it's simple things that also happen to be mostly true things. So I kind of wasn't mad about it.

1:19:21Chris Hewitt:This is a tough one to talk about. You are really tiptoeing around this. I don't know. It's a difficult one to talk about. But yes, I think it deals with some sort of universal things that happen and does so in a way that I thought was, I don't think it's like clever, clever. I don't think this is like a sort of, you know, going to expand your mind, sort of Christopher Nolan, whoa, what the heck is going on kind of a thing. But I do think it's an interesting approach to its subject matter, an interesting approach to what it's trying to do. And I think that first really quite eerie, very, very, very, I find it really unsettling first section is a very interesting way to approach the subject matter, basically.

1:20:08So I thought that was clever. But I don't think it's a clever, clever film. I think it's much more kind of emotional and…

1:20:14Chris Hewitt:This is a change of pace for Mike Flanagan, big time. Very much so. And there's always been emotion in his work, in his films, and especially in his TV shows. something like The Haunting of Hill House is as much about that family and overcoming trauma and like shared love and connection as it is about the really freaky lady with a broken neck. But I think that this, you know, this does something similar in that it uses the horror maybe to kind of open up your emotions a bit and maybe access them and sort of, I don't want to say get you when you're vulnerable because that sounds a little bit mean, but like, you know, open you up to sort of maybe then feeling some other emotions that aren't just fear.

1:20:56And I thought that was really an interesting way of approaching it. And yeah, I get the people who think it's sentimental. I don't necessarily disagree, but it didn't upset me in the way that it did some people. I think that this has some nice things to say. And even if there are bits that didn't 100 % work for me, which there were in the third act, I was by that point already sufficiently on board that I didn't really care so I had a very nice time basically watching this we should mention as well you know Jacob Tremblay and Benjamin Pajak play the younger versions of Chuck who appear in the story we also people like Karen Gillan in there Mia Sara is in there which is cool Carl Lumbly yeah Mark Hamill it's a David Doesmaltian in a really very small role Harvey Gulen really really stacked very good cast and then lots of Mike Flanagan's regular kind of ensemble crop up in tiny roles as well so it's it's a real you just have a good time with this going oh it's that guy I like him Matthew Lillard yes great great scene for him um in one in particular that I'm thinking of but um but yeah I I liked it and I thought it had a good heart and a good head on its shoulders and um and I was very unsettled by the first section and somewhat upset by some of the others but in a good way, if that makes sense.

1:22:16Oh God, it's hard to talk about.

1:22:18Chris Hewitt:It's a tough one to talk about, it really is, because to say much more about it would be to delve into spoiler fill, and I'm not sure that we wanted to do that, lest an army come at us with pitchforks and torches. It's a film to be discovered, is what I would say, but each section I thought was really interesting and at times really quite emotionally affecting and profound I said joyous and life affirming and I think it is it's a film about seizing the day and living in the moment and not worrying shall we say about not worrying too much about the end so the end is coming it'll come for us all as we all know that but it's a film that says you know okay that's gonna happen at some point live your life in the moment live your life right now.

1:23:14Chris Hewitt:Take solace and joy in things that give you solace and joy, no matter how unconventional those seem to be. Whether it's dancing in the street to a drummer, which is what happens in this movie, or fucking with custard. Who knows? Harry, what did you make of this? Just jumping off what you said, Helen, in terms of I feel like it's not the first time Mike Flanagan has maybe been accused of being quite sentimental. Take, for example, some of the scenes in Midnight Mass, especially I know people go on about the monologue, the big monologue scene in that show. I think with something like this, if you are on that wavelength and you enjoy that kind of sentimental side of Mike Flanagan, I think you've just got to let this wash over you.

1:23:58And if you accept that and enjoy this film for what it is, which is a film that is quite twee and quite sweet and sentimental, I just feel like you're going to have a really lovely time. I don't think it's sentimental. I think it's quite sentimental. I think twee is a bit strong, just because there's scary bits even in the sentimental. I just fought with the second act. I found certain parts of that a little bit riding the line. For me, that was maybe my least favorite act of the film. But even then, I just was like, I'm going to let this wash over me. And by the end, I was sold on it and I had a really good time.

1:24:30And I think if you go in with that mindset, I think this is just a very enjoyable, optimistic, if at points a little bit depressing, Stephen King adaptation. I also do agree. I think its first act might be its strongest, but just watching it all unfold is a very fun ride to be on. So yeah, this ended up kind of winning me over by the end of it.

1:24:54Chris Hewitt:Yeah, I really like it. I think this is a really solid, really strong Stephen King adaptation that if we were to do a Stephen King ranking again, I think would have a big shot of being in the top ten. Yeah, I think so too. So yeah, four stars we gave this one. Four stars down for the life of Chuck. Well worth your time. Harry. Hello. Tell us about Eddington, Ari Aster's latest mindfuck? Yeah, maybe. I mean, it's definitely... In fact, I'll go into this because I think it's probably his most accessible film that he's made so far. This is from Ari Aster, and it is a COVID-set Western comedy, which is a mouthful.

1:25:35But it follows a sheriff played by Joaquin Phoenix during the 2020 COVID pandemic. and he comes to head with the local town mayor played by pedro pascal pedro pascal um and uh what it kind of goes to explore in this conflict between them is everything from um the like anti-maskers to the black lives matter movement to religious cults uh and if that all sounds like a lot it's because it is a lot of film um there's a lot going on here and i think that is kind of by design i listened to ari talk and he talked about he's the fact that he started writing this during covid and so it was less about being retrospective of covid and more about kind of capturing the chaotic nature of what that whole period was like and i think if that's the goal that he set himself for this i think he's he's achieved it and then some and i do think some people are gonna enjoy the weirdness of this and how chaotic it is more than others but for me it really worked I think it's a very funny film and I think it's a very dark film but I do think it's a very watchable film which can't be said of all of Ari Aster's films as much as we all love Bo is Afraid Do we?

1:26:48So yeah, I think this largely succeeds overall and is a very good time at the cinema I am a bit less up on it I was very with this for the first two thirds maybe even three quarters and I think it makes a false equivalent at that point that really undermined it for me from then on. And I really struggled with the rest of it. I think it finishes on a, I mean, we're talking about Life of Chuck not always being subtle. Eddington's sort of finale is the least subtle metaphor I've ever seen in my entire life. I mean, it's very, very on the nose. It is the nose. It's so on the nose.

1:27:27Chris Hewitt:It's about as subtle as hitting your head on a telegraph pole on the way home. Oh no, too soon. What? But I was really with it for the first section. I think it's, first of all, great performances. I think, you know, I don't always love every Joaquin Phoenix film, as we know, but I thought he was absolutely terrific in this. I thought his character and his story were great. Again, up until that last sort of tiny bit. I thought, you know, Pedro Pascal, great again. Much, much less demanding role, but he does it fine. I thought Emma Stone was horrifically, maybe unforgivably underused. Everybody else around them, pretty strong.

1:28:08Austin Butler just drops in for a bit to be cool and weird and is very cool and weird, so well done him. And we'll be talking about him, I guess, more next week after having two consecutive weeks of Peter Pascal films. We're now in two consecutive weeks of Austin Butler films.

1:28:20Chris Hewitt:Oh, for goodness sake, Butler, give other people a chance. I know, right? So I just feel like there's being provocative, which has a value, and I'm not saying don't be provocative don't like challenge people's beliefs I think there's a lot of the behavior I think there's there's obviously political metaphors going on here right you've got Joe Cross Joaquin's character the anti-masker you think he'd be an anti-vaxxer he's kind of right-wingy coded right you've got the much more liberal mayor but he's you know wildly hypocritical and I think that's 100 % legitimate and you know the way that Pedro Pascal's character is also like gung-ho for this new data center that is going to solve all the town's problems instead of actually looking at what the problems are again i think there's a real point to be made there about the way that liberal governments are failing people all of this 100 i think the problem this film has is when it tries to get into black lives matter and antifa and some of that stuff where it just it isn't saying anything as clever or provocative as it has been about everything else and I think it just really then it just starts sort of going oh everybody's shit and that's like well are they though or do some people have more of a point and are just maybe expressing it in bad ways I mean there's a great So saying there's very bad people on both sides It kind of is and I think there's definitely again points to be made about you know some of these activists getting into it for the wrong reasons and being faintly ridiculous in the way that they talk.

1:29:54I think we can all agree with that stuff. But then it goes a little bit further than that into some pure right-wing fantasy that I really struggled with. And I was like, what are we talking about now? I don't recognize this anymore as reality. And I also don't recognize it as a fantasy that is challenging my reality and making me think about things. It's just some weird shit that's happening.

1:30:19Chris Hewitt:All right. Both films this week that we've discussed so far are very difficult to talk about it would seem but both films we have also given four stars we gave this one four stars four stars four four stars then for Eddington next up is Ava Fichter's debut as writer, director and also star Sorry Baby now did anyone follow Ava Fichter on Twitter? no very funny lots of little comedic sketches brought them to the attention of I think Brian Koppelman and David Lafine on Billions but then kind of disappeared off the radar a little bit and I was like oh whatever happened to Ava Victor and then at Sundance last year boom along comes Sorry Baby and it's the toast of the town.

1:31:09Chris Hewitt:Rightly so? Rightly so yes produced also by Barry Jenkins we should say. But yeah this is very much the Eva Victor show because they wrote as well as directing and starring. So Eva plays Agnes, who is a English literature professor at a small arts college in New England. And we meet her living alone in basically in our house, in a forest with a cat. So her friend Liddy, who's Naomi Aki's character, visits from New York and announces that she's pregnant. And they are basically kind of celebrating that and talking about the past and meeting up with some other friends and then we sort of like start to go a bit back and forward through time and you learn like the life of chuck actually i mean not 100 dissimilar yeah there's a it's not quite as linear as that when we we jump backwards and forwards but um but yeah we basically see why ava is a little bit cut off from most people and why she is she's not in total isolation she's not a shut-in she is still working, she's still going about her life, but she's clearly holding herself back, cut off from something, something has gone wrong.

1:32:21And it gradually becomes clear that she was basically assaulted by her advisor, by her advisor in college, and that this is what has sort of, you know, stymied her and basically kept her sort of stopped in the world. And it's really about her working through that and coming to terms with that and facing that really in a way that she has been avoiding when we first meet her for a couple of years um that sounds probably like oh god another one of these films about trauma i don't know if i have it in me trauma but i think this one trauma trauma but i do think actually this one probably genuinely is life-affirming i mean if we're talking about those kind of films because it is about her going through this and starting to face it and starting to face up to what's happened but doing so with an enormous amount of humor and strength and a very very little self-pity at all and very very little melancholy it's you know some anger understandably but it's kind of about her really successfully working through it and I think that's what Victor has done brilliantly with the writing I mean this is this walks the line between comedy and tragedy so so well there is one scene where John Carroll Lynch just drops in and it's kind of just a one scene bit and it's one of the moments of the year for me on screen so far like it's just an incredibly written brilliantly performed piece of drama and I just loved it.

1:33:46Chris Hewitt:You talked about that a lot in the interview I did with Eva Victor. Rightly so I mean it's just fantastic so yeah I really really like this I was kind of braced for a slog I was braced for oh god it's another film about trauma and assault and I'm not sure I have it in me to watch this again but I think it's a really great example of turning tragedy into something really powerful absolutely um yeah not much more to add to that this is a movie that you should go and see folks this is what i will say uh ava victor is just brilliant and we give this one four stars four stars then for sorry baby go check it out we're on a roll guys we should probably have a quick chat about the thursday murder club i'm sure that's another four star masterpiece uh yes uh so the thursday Murder Club we'll say this this is the latest film from Chris Columbus he took some time off after discovering America or did he let's not relitigate that one shall we and you know he went away for several hundred years came back as a filmmaker Gremlins Goonies Harry Potter etc etc Home Alone and his latest movie is Thursday Murder Club which is based on the phenomenally successful series of books by Richard Osman, who is, of course, the man who created and co-hosted Pointless for many, many years, Richard Osman's House of Games.

1:35:09Chris Hewitt:He's giant. He's 6 '7". I believe he's 6 '7". Maybe even 6 '8". He's massive. He's huge. His intellect is huge. And I don't know if he hosts any pop culture podcasts. No, I don't think he does. And... Never. I certainly think that you shouldn't investigate that. Don't look into it. You should listen to this podcast. Just listen to us. Nothing else. But he wrote those books, The Thursday Murder Club, which is about a group of retirees in a very well-to-do retirement village called Cooper's Chase, who form, you know, you have knitting clubs, you have sewing clubs, you have life model decoy clubs, you have all sorts of stuff.

1:35:48Life drawing, maybe?

1:35:48Chris Hewitt:Life drawing, that's one. But these four have a Thursday Murder Club where they try and delve into old, unsolved, cold cases. but wouldn't you know it just as they start investigating an old cold case a red hot murder case no lands on their doorstep and the four are played by Helen Mirren Pierce Braunholm Sir Ben Kingsley and Dame Celia Imry should be a Dame god damn it because she's fucking amazing is Helen Mirren not a Dame she is a Dame but I was you know I just I want to accentuate the fact that Celia Imry who like Terrence Stamp was in Star Wars Episode I, the Phantom Menace has not received, to my knowledge, a damehood.

1:36:34Chris Hewitt:And this is a disgrace and an oversight for which the UK government must atone immediately. Anyway, they're the Thursday Murder Club and they investigate some shenanigans. Shenanigans shenanigans abound in this movie. And this is out next week on Netflix, but it's getting a theatrical release this week. Yes. we've given it two stars. I think that's a little harsh. I agree. I don't think it's a four star. I was joking about that, but I do think it's a bit hard. I would probably go a three, personally. I think this is very well cast with maybe one exception, which we'll maybe talk about next week.

1:37:16Ooh, I'm intrigued. Not the central foursome, but outside that, I think there's a couple of people I would maybe question. One person I would really question. But otherwise, I think it's really warm hearted I think it's very if you like the book it's very faithful to the book apart from like one thing I think one pretty major thing one pretty major thing yes but they all die but I think it's interesting at least an interesting thing to get Chris Columbus in for this because it feels a bit like those early Harry Potters in that he's being asked to establish this world and establish the sort of visual grammar and the look of the place and the way that the people interact.

1:37:59And then, you know, if I were them, I'd be making the sequels pretty much immediately. Why is that, Helen? Once the cast have had a sit down. Because we don't want to wait three years between installments, do we? No, we don't.

1:38:13Chris Hewitt:We don't. Exactly. No other reason. No other reason. Good, good, good. Anyway, but I think it's warm-hearted and fun. I find it a little bit slow at times, a little bit safe at times. And some of the jokes I find a little tiny bit repetitive. But it also, I think, gets what people love about the books really well and will be very popular with people who enjoyed them. I think so. I think this is aimed at a very specific demographic. And obviously the people who read the Richard Osmond books are not all of that demographic. These books are phenomenons. I can't even begin to tell you, in an era where it's very difficult for books to sell more than 100 copies, these things are selling hundreds of thousands of copies if not millions of copies around the world so they've done Richard Osman very nicely indeed and the rest is entertainment as they say but this is a nice Sunday afternoon sleepy Sunday afternoon nap kind of a movie and I think that too is a little harsh but I can also see that maybe the feeling was that the filmmaking is a little safe, a little prosaic and there's not a lot in here that will surprise or shock or get the blood pumping but I would say that that's not necessarily what this movie is intended to do.

1:39:30Chris Hewitt:Anyway, this was meant to be a brief chat about the movie. We will talk about it in detail next week. But there you go. Just to let you know, you probably are going to go to the cinema. You're taking your Auntie Doris or your Uncle Neville along to see this movie and there you go. So they'll think it's ever so nice. I'm going to wrap up the review section now by talking about a film only I have seen. And that is a film called Eenie Meenie, which is on Disney Plus as of today. Friday, August 22nd in the year of our Lord, 2025. And it is written and directed by a man called Sean Simmons. That's right.

1:40:11Chris Hewitt:Sean Simmons and the star is Samara Weaving and Carl Glussman and Andy Garcia. And other good people are in this movie as well. Jermaine Fowler. people like that okay and I know what you're thinking Chris this is a movie called Eeny Meeny it's on Disney Plus therefore it is some sort of cutesy little teen comedy no this is a hard edged relentless comedy thriller that doesn't let up from the moment it begins until the moment it ends and is very funny and has great action sequences and shocked the hell out of me because I knew very little about this when I sat down to watch it the other day on a link.

1:40:50Chris Hewitt:And every five minutes in this movie, there is a reversal or a surprise or an introduction of a character or a plot wrinkle that will throw you off. And so basically, trying to give you a brief... Do Miney and Mo show up? No, they don't. I'll try and give you a brief glimpse of the plot without giving away too much. So Samara Weaving is a young woman called Edie who is trying to live her life. She, for a few years, was dabbling in the criminal fraternity of, I believe, Pittsburgh, which is where the movie's set. I believe it is. And she's going straight and she's trying to get her life on track.

1:41:35Chris Hewitt:And one day she has recourse to go to her old ex-boyfriend, John, played by Carl Glissman, and finds that he's in the middle of a predicament. and she extricates him from that predicament in an unexpected and amusing way and then the two of them find themselves in a larger predicament. That's all I can say. And then the movie plays out from there. And it's about great many things. It's about the two of them trying to find common ground. It's about them trying to get out of the predicament in which they're in. Who can they trust? Can they trust themselves? John is a real wild card of a character, very unpredictable, very capricious, and someone who tends to shoot himself in the foot at the worst moments.

1:42:26Chris Hewitt:Whether it's literal or not, I will leave to you to find out. And I just love this movie. The first 45 minutes in particular, I was like, oh, wow, this is really bold and thrilling and unexpected. And I hope it lands the plane. And it does. And there's some great action in it as well, as I mentioned earlier on. Some really, really great car chase also. and I hope that people feel about it the same way that I do when they discover it on Disney Plus, and they won't just dismiss it because of the fact that it's just shown up on Disney Plus without so much as a buy or leave, and very, very little in the way of promotion, and it's called Eenie Meenie.

1:43:04Okay, I'm in.

1:43:05Chris Hewitt:You might discount it from the title alone, Eenie Meenie. Do not. This movie is joyous. Life affirming. Hey, we brought it back. Just like the life of Chuck. I don't know what we've given it yet. I know John Nugent has seen it. He's writing a review. I don't know. I would go four. I mean, it feels like that's the vibe, right? I'd go four. I'd go very, very strong four on this one for me. So yeah, check it out. Eeny meeny. And I was thus moved, moved, I tell you, to sit down with the cast of the movie, the stars of the film, Samara Weaving, who, by the way, I don't think I've given enough credit.

1:43:41Chris Hewitt:Samara Weaving's incredible. She's awesome. So she's an Australian actress. She gets often dismissed as one of the many Margot Robbie clones that that country has produced since the advent of Margot Robbie. She's much more than that. She's an incredible actress who's been great in things like The Babysitter and, of course, Ready or Not, which is just great. And I can't wait for her to star in Ready or Not, Here I Come, which is an actual movie that has been shot and is coming out next year. But she's God-level in this because Edie is a really complex character who has to deal with a lot of shit in this movie, and she doesn't take shit lightly.

1:44:17Chris Hewitt:She gives as good as she gets. She's great in this, really, really great. And so I was delighted to sit down with her on Zoom and Carl Glissman, who plays John as well. Now, I will say that they were in completely different rooms, Zoom rooms, they were completely different locations in the same city, but there you go. And as such, the sound quality isn't great. Sometimes they talk over each other and then the sound cuts out. Zoom still hasn't solved that. We're only, what, five or six years into the Zoom supremacy. you'd think they'd have sorted that out by now but they haven't Bourne's privacy was better yes it really was so there may be the odd sound glitch here but hopefully you can get past that but I had a good time talking to them and yes we did talk about the fact that Samara Weaving has starred in films called Eenie Meenie, Ready or Not and Ready or Not, Here I Come and yes my Nemo might be on the menu at some point here we go, Carl Glissman Samara Weaving, do please enjoy guys I love the film it's one of those movies where 30 minutes in I was like I think I might be evangelical about this movie I think I might need to shout this from the rooftops oh yes please do shout so do you shout then I haven't shouted yet because I've got a fear of heights but the minute I will see a roof that I feel I can clamber onto I will tell people about it but this is kind of a metaphorical rooftop this podcast right now Yes, right.

1:45:41Chris Hewitt:So I'm going to use it to shout about Eeny Meeny. Because honestly, it surprised me. Every five minutes, there was something that happened that I didn't see coming. And I wondered if you felt the same reading the script for the first time. Samara, let's start with you. Yeah, definitely. I think Sean is like one of the best writers I've read. I was blown away. And then I did everything I could to be involved. It's like, I will kill, I will steal, I will whatever you want. Yeah, it's exactly what you said. It's kind of everything. It's like every genre in one movie. It's so funny. It's so thrilling.

1:46:26It's like a real action movie but has such a heart to it. And the cast was incredible. Yeah, it was just one of the best experiences and it all came from that marvellous, marvellous script.

1:46:40Chris Hewitt:I want to come back to the idea of you killing or stealing to be in this. But while you think of an answer that doesn't implicate you in the eyes of the law, Carl, what about you? Did you have the same experience? Yeah, I mean, just to echo what Sam said. I mean, Sean often would say on set, you know, he says, who says he can't have it all? in regards to his movie. I mean, we have the funny, we have the action, we have the sweet, we have the romance, we have the slapstick. There really is a lot of movies in this movie. And when I read the script the first time, there was definitely a lot of moments, yes, where I thought I knew what was going to happen next and then just the opposite thing would happen and that would just send the characters down.

1:47:34on an even worse path along the rabbit hole. And yeah, I mean, it's like working with a guy like Sean and getting to play parts like this, you know, the characters of John and Edie, I mean, it's like a gift from the stars. It's the kind of thing that you long for as an actor. And I just feel like the luckiest guy ever that I got to be a part of this movie. And I think that a lot of people are going to empathize with the characters, even though they are exaggerated versions of ourselves. Or not of people, I should say.

1:48:16Chris Hewitt:Yeah, because that's a terrifying thing to say, Carl, because John is unpredictable. He is capricious. he is he makes some shall we say foolish decisions in the course of this movie you know but you're with him all the way I guess yeah I define him as dog brain um like the sort of it's like very much living in the moment you know not really thinking two steps ahead um which is gonna create issues for uh you know anyone that's tagging along with him Sam is stuck with him for 90 minutes. True. But Samara, Edie is not. She's about 57 steps ahead of everybody. Before we get into the character, I want to go back to the idea of you stealing, killing, doing whatever to get this role.

1:49:08Chris Hewitt:What did you actually do in the end? Yeah, there's a trail of blood. People are looking for me. Which is why you're not in the same room as Carl. Exactly. But yeah, worth it, I think, for the role. Yeah. Did you just snap some necks? Oh, anything you imagine is, yeah, what I did. You did learn, like, you learned how to drive. I learned how to drive for it. I fully lied to them. I was like, they were like, yeah, so you can drive right. And I went, yeah, of course. Never been behind the wheel of a car. Panicked. Quickly went to Melrose Driving School. Shout out to Soldier Adam, who taught me how to drive.

1:49:53and then six months later they're like putting me behind the wheel of these like insane cars and I'm doing donuts and like controlled slides and stuff uh but I still didn't really know how to parallel park or like hit a mark so that was interesting on set um and then being around all these like very professional stunt drivers who have done this for their whole lives and being very humbled around them. A lot of acting. The only acting I really did was pretending to know how to drive like that.

1:50:29Chris Hewitt:So, you had never ever even had like a single lesson before? When I was about 16, when all my friends were learning how to drive, one of them was trying to teach me and i sat in the car and we were like going five miles an hour and then i ran out of the car um it's the only experience i opened the door and i ran but she never did on set so she got better i mean i was i i learned to drive when i was 30 myself Okay, good. I'm not alone. You're not alone. It doesn't really make any sense to me that we're, like, behind these weapons. And the only thing from, like, keeping us from hitting the other weapons is, like, paint on the ground and flashing lights.

1:51:24That just doesn't seem correct to me.

1:51:27Chris Hewitt:See, I am fully on board now with your way of thinking. Carl, were you an early adopter of driving? He's a maniac. Yeah, so I actually, I didn't get my license until I was 18. But one time, my mother went on a vacation when I was 15. And I found the keys to the Chevy Blazer. And I spent about a week driving around without a license, picking up my friends, going from town to town until I hit another car with my mom's car. And I was so scared and it was raining and I didn't hit it really hard. I just kind of dinged the car and the pickup truck that I bumped pulled over with his lights flashing and I didn't know what to do.

1:52:20And I was so scared. I tried to drive away and this pickup truck actually chased me down. And I mean, I was not a good driver, so I gave up pretty quickly. but I got out of the car and this huge man got out and he was like, what are you doing? And I said, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I don't know. I don't know. And he was like, you don't hit and run. I go, I know, I know. I don't know what I'm doing. And he, and then he, he stopped and he, and he noticed the bumper sticker on, on my mom's car. And it said the, uh, the veterans hospital in Portland. And he goes, why do you have that sticker on your car?

1:52:55I go, that's where my mom works. And he goes, that's where I work. And then I was like, And he's like, who's your mom? And I was like, Dr. Burke. And then he took mercy on me. I thought he was going to destroy me. And then he's just like, you don't hit and run. And I go, I know. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And then anyway, then I didn't drive again for three years. And then I'm doing very well. It really are, John. That is such a John thing to do. I know. I know. And now, anyway, now I'm much more responsible. And I tried to bump nobody on the road. Prove my earlier point. This is why they keep us in separate rooms.

1:53:32Chris Hewitt:Are you behind the wheel of a car right now, Carl, just in case? I have a little, like, suction cup one they let me play with. You know, because earlier on I was talking about, you know, Samara maybe confessing to a crime. I didn't expect you to actually literally confess to a crime. I will confess to my crime. Well, some of them. Samara, you must have been told this or asked this question a number of times during this junket alone. but you are in Eenie Meenie and Ready or Not and Ready or Not Here I Come. So, you know, is this a way to get you interested in a script? You know, were you a big fan of playing tag when you were a kid?

1:54:13Chris Hewitt:And if someone comes to you with a script called Miney Moe, are you in? Oh my God, I hadn't even made that connection before. Really? Oh my God, good one. Really good joke. I didn't put two or two together. Yeah, I only do films that are children's nursery rhymes from now on. That's my brand and I'm sticking to it. That's amazing. Yeah. Oh, my God. So I'm the first person to bring this up to you. Yeah, really good. Really good crack.

1:54:47Chris Hewitt:We are very excited about Ready or Not, Here I Come. And Carl, I know we're going to be seeing you in The Running Man soon. Yeah. What I want to do is I want to get each of you to talk about the other's movie so you don't have to worry about spoilers. So, Samara, what can you tell us about The Running Man? The look of panic on your face would indicate not very much. Yeah, yeah. No, no, I got this. I got this. Listen, it's self-explanatory. It's in the title. There's like a man and he runs so much that he just – it's Forrest Gump. It's just that one scene. He said no spoilers.

1:55:28Chris Hewitt:yeah the movie starts off with him going eeny meeny miny moe ready or not here i come and then he just runs for a solid two hours it's a documentary you want to hear about ready or not here i come of course i do carl you like blood i love blood you're gonna love this movie okay i prefer blood when it stays inside my body but i suspect that there's gonna be a lot of blood outside the body in this one. All kinds of blood. Your blood, their blood, blood on screen, everywhere. All right, guys, on that bloody bombshell. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you. All right, that was Samara Weavian and Carl Glissman and Eeny Meeny is on Disney Plus right now.

1:56:09Chris Hewitt:And on that note, that is it for this week's Empire podcast. We'll say live show coming up Saturday, September 13th, King's Place London. Very, very exciting indeed. Our good friends at King's Place London have put the balcony seats on sale. We've still got a couple of seats in the stalls to sell. So if you fancy coming along, it's going to be an amazing, amazing night of film-related fun. We're going to be doing all sorts. It won't just simply be this week's show. We're not going to simply get a printout and read that out. It's going to be other stuff in there as well. It's going to be in Mount Rushmore.

1:56:40Chris Hewitt:There may even be a three-fact structure, Hells Bells. That's right. The two things you love the most in this world. There may be a bit where we fuck with custard. I don't know. There won't be a bit where we fuck with custard. I'll be there and I'll make sure it happens. Harry's there. He's got a can of birds custard. He's got to throw it on stage. I'll stand at the side of the stage waiting. It's going to be amazing. Kingspace.co.uk if you haven't picked up your tickets yet already. It's going to be awesome. We confirmed the guests just this afternoon. Very good guests. Very excited about the guests.

1:57:12Chris Hewitt:All good stuff. But never mind September 13th. I'm more worried about next week's show. So join us then for more film-related fun. We'll be joined by Sir Ben Kingsley, star of the Thursday Murder Club, and Olivia Colman, National Treasure, and star of The Roses, the new kind of reboot of The War of the Roses, and her director, Jay Roach. That's exciting. So there we go. to Bastions of British Acting and Jay Roach. Amazing. He's a lovely man who directed all the Austin Powers movies. Amazing. There we go. And of course, the Ava Victor interview will be up. That will be up at some point as well.

1:57:58Chris Hewitt:And who knows? Some other stuff also. But anyway, until then, until we meet again, until that auspicious occasion, it is goodbye from my two colleagues of such lethal cunning, both of whom were told this would be a short record. Jesus Christ. Goodbye, Helen O 'Hara. Toodaloo. Toodaloo. Goodbye, Harry Stainer if that is your name that is my name goodbye let's go for custard Chris let's go for custard oh I'm busy you don't want to miss this I'm pretty sure I do it's goodbye from me I am off to fuck with custard not like that that would be disgusting I'm off to a well known supermarket to do so let's see if you can really taste the difference no thanks for listening see you next time you don't get out on the rest is entertainment bye

1:58:50You