The Not-So-Difficult Second Movie (ft. guests Guy Pearce and Benedict Wong)

22:16I mean, I've got this thing as well, which I'll show you, which is a which is a synthy which was famously sort of used by pink floyd you know back in the very late 60s and it's it's really random i mean i don't even i can't even profess to say that i know how to use it but i just use it and it's one of those things where if i get a patch going on and a kind of a random loopy pattern going on, I better record it because if I turn the machine off and turn the machine back on again, I'm never getting the same thing again. So it's so random and kind of like just you grab something out, you know, and that's sort of a lot easier to use than the bookless system because you don't have to do that much patching.

23:04There's just little pins that you can sort of place into different spots. But again, it gives me such great random stuff that it's worth recording just a 10 minute section of it yeah that i can perhaps implement into another song or or it gives me song ideas anyway so so yeah i just love these sort of random you know instruments whereas a guitar i sit down at a guitar and i immediately go okay what are the 12 chords i know which one of the 12 chords will i start with you know what i mean yeah it's fascinating because uh in inside there is a a thread in that movie where vincent miller's character mel has a keyboard and he has a he has a musical bent and that maybe potentially is something that could offer him salvation it could offer him a way out and your character warren strikes me as not musical at all or he's someone who's buried the music down deep inside so you know you're a very musical guy do you think about the musical lives of your characters is that a way saying to them?

24:07Well, I do. I mean, there are definitely elements, I think, that just sort of broad brushstrokes that you look at with a character, like, does he have a sense of humour? How insecure is he? Does he feel confident with women or men? What's he scared of? What's he good at? Is he physical? Is he sporty? Is he musical? Is he artistic? So there are those sorts of questions that I just sort of tick off to a degree and then delve into them further, especially if in fact they are pertinent to the character, you know, if a character is musical or if a character has an interest in something but is no good at it and is, you know, irritated by that or, you know, has an insecurity about that.

24:56So, and it's funny actually because there was a scene in Inside that got cut out of the film where I pick up his keyboard and I'm sitting in my cell on my own, listening to all the noise around me. And I pick up his keyboard and just sort of start hitting some notes. And Charles said to me, it's too musical. It's what you're playing, Stevie. It's got to be, it's got to really be, I mean, no, no, you're right. You're absolutely right. Whereas I kind of went to where I knew I could go and he went don't go there maybe that's why i cut it out in the end maybe what i played in the end was still too musical i don't think so i think the film was just it just didn't require it you know so that's that's amazing it's it's a terrific film i mean it's an incredibly powerful film um and we were talking earlier on for the magazine you said that charles you know has has knows people has family members who've been in the the prison system in australia yeah was that yeah was Was that the fact that he had such a personal connection, was that one of the lures for you?

25:55Was this a story you felt was important to tell? Well, I felt that the script first and foremost, I think I read the script before I met with Charles. Yes, I read the script first and just went, oh, wow, this is, yeah, it's so evocative and I really can see these characters and feel for, you know, and feel for these guys and on all sorts of levels, you know, on the level of just being a man and trying to relate to other men, feeling trapped. You know, not that I could ever understand what it's like to be in prison, but the idea of being trapped emotionally and at certain ages, I know that I'm trapped in ways and I'm constantly trying to break free of those sort of emotional shackles that I've found myself stuck in and, you know, where you sort of repeat patterns in your life or whatever.

26:47So through that and then, of course, I got to meet with Charles and talk with him. And he's a very intellectual guy or just very articulate and very insightful and really sharp. And I was quite surprised to hear that he, in fact, has family members. And I'm forgetting whether it was both an uncle, a brother, another cousin. I can't remember exactly and I don't want to get that wrong. But a couple of members of his family had been in prison, in and out of prison. So he has a very personal connection to it and a very personal connection in a way that I think isn't often expressed in films. And I suppose that is just the way in which, and funnily enough, not that we see that so much in our film, but the way in which family members outside deal with and deal with their family members that are inside.

27:54So it was, I mean, I was already in, I was already wanting to do the film, even just on reading the script. And so getting to sit with Charles and hear about his personal connection to it only made it sort of more interesting, really. and I think because he is so, he's got a great ability to assess a situation and he's got, you know, he can really understand sort of the prison system and the things that work and the things that don't work and all the bureaucracy and all the kind of the politics and the, you know, on that sort of governmental level as well as the emotional stuff of family members literally turning up and hearing other prisoners scream from other rooms.

28:35So he's really across it on all sorts of levels. So you just felt like you were in great hands being on set with him because he was venturing into a world that he, as I say, knows very well. So, yeah, it just really struck me, his realising of these characters and this young boy at the centre of it, sort of surrounded by. And having my own son now, I have an eight-year-old son who's actually nearly nine. You know, I'm even more attuned to the vulnerability of young folk and the influences around them, whether they're good or bad or, you know, from other people's parents or just other friends or whatever it is.

29:24You know, my radar for that stuff is more on high alert these days. Yeah, I can imagine why. Absolutely. and Cosmo Jarvis is in this movie as well and he's terrific and we've spoken in the past with this podcast guy about your amazing facility with accents no accent seems to be insurmountable for you I wouldn't agree with that completely okay thank you I'll take the compliment to our ears that certainly seems to be the case but has there been one that you've really come up against and not been able to do? Well, it's funny, the film that I met Carice on, so I did a Dutch movie, but we shot it in Germany, but it was a Dutch director, and every day he would say, and I was playing a Dutch character, but who was speaking English, so I had a Dutch accent, and every day he'd come up to me and go, yeah, today you sound a little Swedish.

30:21Then the next day he'd come and go, you're sounding a bit Scottish today. It was like, right. No, it's a tricky accent. The Dutch accent is a tricky one, And I actually reckon a Scottish accent would be really hard. I've never attempted it and I don't know that I should. I'm not going to fight you to do so right now. No. I do a remake of Rob Roy and you hear that I'm on board just so this is – either this is really bad or I've got to get up on set and watch this guy. Well, let me ask you this. Everyone's got a Sean Connery impression. Do you have a Sean Connery impression? No, I don't. I don't.

30:53I mean I can say like one word I think. I can't even think. I'm not going to do it for you now. It was funny because I worked with Bobby Carlyle, who I just think is so great and wonderful and such a great guy. But, man, what a strong accent that he has. And there were times when he'd be sort of talking to me slightly under his breath. And I can't do what it was he said, but I can do an impersonation of what I didn't understand, which was him going, I said, he's never going to see.

31:26And I think I didn't get one word of what he just said then. And I have to say, I'm sorry, what? And he'd sort of slow down and say, I've got it now. So it's even an accent that I, you know, that I, that I've struggled to even understand, let alone impersonate. That was, that was pretty good. I understood that. That was, yeah. I hope I didn't offend anyone in Scotland with what I just said then. Oh no, no. They're made of hardy stuff up in Scotland. Yeah, they are. Yeah, made of girders. But the Australian accent for non-Australian actors, I think, is like one of those white whales, I imagine, because the Australian accent is really tricky, and Cosmo absolutely nails it.

32:03What was your... Well, absolutely. No, I completely agree. And I think, funnily enough, it's a bit of a generational thing. People who grew up being able to watch Neighbours are far more capable of doing it because they grew up hearing it. And that's the only reason. And, well, it's not the only reason, but it's the main reason why most of us can do American accents because we grew up watching American films or English films or European films, whatever. But most people around the world aren't growing up watching Australian stuff. And I worked with a girl, Ruth, on an Australian film, and she came out from Ireland and did the best Australian accent I've ever heard in my life.

32:40And I said, how? And she was 24 or something when she did the movie. I said, how on earth are you doing this? She said, well, I watch Neighbours every day. I was like well of course okay that makes sense absolutely now not to suggest that Cosmo was watching Neighbours but I reckon just the exposure to Australians and for anyone under 40 now is far more than for people prior to that I mean funnily enough I didn't get to talk with Cosmo at all on set at all he was so buried in his character as he should have been and well you know good on him but it was funny because at the Golden Globe Awards earlier this year, he was there with another TV show and we sort of saw each other from across tables and he ran over and said, oh, Guy, mate, how are you?

33:26And we had this chat. It was the most I'd spoken to him the entire time that I'd met him. And I thought, oh, how funny. I'm now seeing the big, warm-hearted, lovely guy that he is, that he kind of kept hidden when we were shooting. And our characters clearly have no connection other than a very suspicious one in the movie. So it wasn't relevant for us to, you know, be having sort of banter offset, but, but he had to focus, you know, he had to really focus on what he was doing as I did, but I didn't, I didn't have to focus on an accent. No, it was just like, you know, second nature to you or one of the, one of the things with accents, that's the toughest to deal with is if you're doing an accent from a place, but you're making the movie somewhere else and all the crew.

34:13So, for example, I did an American film with Katie Holmes, but in Australia back in 2009. Now, it wasn't so tough because I'd done lots of American accents before, but I'm completely surrounded by 100 Australians going, you know, going, wow, this is really hard. I had to kind of walk away from people at times because it's like trying to sing a song when you can hear 50 other songs on 50 radio stations at the same time. You just can't do it. And I did a film in Austin, Texas that was set in North Carolina back in 1998. And the North Carolina droll is kind of soft like that. It's very soft. It's like Savannah.

34:52It's sort of sweet and the R's are kind of soft. So I'm trying to do that in the middle of all these people talking like that, twangy sort of Southern Texan people like, hey, God, what's going on? And I was like, wow, I'm trying to do a Southern thing, but I've got to steer it away from. So you can be really put off by the hundred crew that are around you, not to be disparaging towards the crew. They're just doing their job. But it's a sound that you're dealing with all the time when you're trying to maintain this new sound that you're sort of only just, this little tightrope wire that you're sort of walking along, you know.

35:26And you're thinking to yourself, okay, but if I fuck it up, there's always ADR. There's always ADR, that's right. Yeah, there's always ADR, yeah. So if you do a Scottish accent one day, that's entirely an ADR. Yeah. Or I only make the film in Scotland and I spend three months there beforehand. Surrounded by people being incomprehensible. Yeah. All right. I've got to let you go, Guy. But congratulations on the Oscar nomination for the debut. Thank you very much. Yeah. Amazing. What sort of impact has it had on you? I mean, is it one of those things that now it's already in the rear view mirror?

35:56Or what did it be? Well, I don't know, really. I mean, you know, a lot of people were really lovely about it and, you know, just gave me congratulations and sort of a lot of people said, oh, long overdue. There was a lot of that sort of talk, which I didn't necessarily agree with. But I was really pleased with my performance in the film and really pleased with the film. I can kind of make sense of why it possibly happened. So, yeah, it was a real, yeah, beautiful pat on the back. And I don't know if it means anything as far as kind of therefore getting more work or, you know, anything like that.

36:29I'm not really sure. But, yeah, who knows? We'll just wait and see. But certainly it was a nice thing to happen. And, of course, you know, it wasn't just that. It was all through that awards season. We were getting nominations for Critics Awards and Golden Globes. And, you know, so there was a ton that the film – I was a little disappointed for the film, to be honest, at the Oscars. You know, I felt that something slightly went awry towards the end there. I was really glad, obviously, that Adrian won. But I certainly think that Brady should have either won Best Film or Best Director, if I'm to be really blunt about it.

37:09But, you know, it is what it is. And the film got great attention and everyone seemed to love it. So, yeah, happy to be part of it. Well, Guy, it's been a pleasure talking to you. You're going to record anything today? You're looking through demos? Are you actually going to write anything today? Well, yeah, I'll bring up a couple of songs. And there's one I've been sort of mucking around with, see if it's any good or not. and so I'll have a little play with that and see what I need to do. There's always lyrics that need to be improved. All right. Well, if and when that comes out, come back on the show and we'll talk about it because it all began here.

37:41Okay. Beautiful. Brilliant. All right. Well, thank you. Good to talk to you. Cheers. That was great. Thanks, Guy. Great. Excellent. Thank you. Bye-bye, man. Cheers. All right. That was Guy Pearce talking about Inside, which is out next week, I believe, on streaming. Shall we have some movie news? In fact, no, I'm not going to phrase it that way, Alex. Let's have some movie news. The big takeaway from me this week, looking at the news, looking at what's out there, is that there are a huge number of trailers that make it look like we as a society are having a total nervo. Would you agree? Is that your impression?

38:19What trailers have you guys seen? Because that's how I'm feeling, having had a look at the news. yeah it's a stressful stressful time and that is reflected maybe in the movies that are being made uh should we talk about shelby oaks yes that's one of my prime examples of this so this is a new horror movie about a woman looking for her missing sister in a sort of ghost town of the title right yes and it's uh written and directed by chris stuckman who i'll be honest I'm not that aware of this guy, but he is a fairly prominent online movie critic, rose up through YouTube, another part of this generation of incoming filmmakers who sort of cut their teeth making online content.

39:03Ah yes, like James. Like James's Bessie mates from Thailand and now are making big features. And so this is part of Neon's slate. They are really kind of moving into the horror space in a similar way to the sort of brand of A24 horror. Neon have had all of the recent Osgood Perkins films. They're doing Together, aren't they? Together is a Neon film. And Shelby Oaks is not only a Neon film, but it's got an executive producer credit for Mike Flanagan. Neon also releasing The Life of Chuck later this year. And yeah, this looks creepy. It looks a little bit Blair Witch, a little bit The Ring. There is an element of like a videotape that sparks this quest for this woman's missing sister in a spooky town that also looks a bit Silent Hill.

39:51It's a nice like eerie evocative first trailer. Neon's horror movie marketing of recent years has been outstanding. All of those crazy long legs teasers that for months and months didn't actually reveal the name of the film, but it was just like really unsettling images. They are kind of masters at hyping up incoming horror films and they're putting a lot of weight behind Shelby Oaks. And I think that's a promising first trailer. Absolutely. Which other ones did everybody else watch? Rental Family. Yes, so this is the new Brendan Fraser film. This is his follow-up to, I guess, winning an Oscar.

40:26He's gone to Japan. To play a fake dad. To play a fake dad. Yeah, so this is, I mean, this is a thing that exists, which is, you know, people can kind of rent a fake family, you know, to show up at funerals and save face or to show up at, you know, family gatherings, social functions, things like this. And sometimes they have the need in this scenario, in this film, for a westerner, which is where this out-of-work actor played by Brendan Fraser comes into it. It looks quite kind of... This one, actually, I would not put in the making it look like we're all having a collective nervous breakdown category.

40:58No, I've gone off-paced. Yeah, this is quite sweet, I think. It does look sweet. Look, it reminded me a bit of the trailer for Big Bold Beautiful Journey, which we had a few weeks ago. Looks maybe a little sugary, but very sweet. And if it's done well, then maybe a bit tear-jerky. But I love Brendan Fraser. I mean, is this... And it's not a follow-up... Is it his follow-up to The Whale? Was Killers of the Flower Moon after that, which he was in for a little bit. But, you know, as a lead performance, you know, The Whale was a big deal for him. I like him a lot. And he looks like perfect casting for this.

41:32I'd like to spend another couple of hours with him and this looks like a good one. Yeah, it does. It looks very, very charming. He's also got pressure coming up where he plays Eisenhower in the lead-up to D-Day with Andrew Scott as the weatherman who has to predict what date is going to be safest to launch the attack. So that's going to be interesting as well. But yeah, it's good to see him kind of back in action a little bit. If that was a less stressful one, I can't imagine a trailer this week being more stressful than the trailer for the new Rose Byrne film called If I Had Legs, I'd Kick You.

42:05This is an A24 film that looks extraordinarily stressful and people I think who have already seen this at festivals are likening it to the anxiety attack levels of something like Uncut Gems. Bring it on. It's from director Mary Bronstein, writer-director, and Rose Byrne plays Linda who is a mother having a very, very, very, very, very stressful time. There's not actually a huge amount of plot in this trailer, but it's just like, look at Rose Byrne act her fucking socks off while looking like she's having the worst week of her life. And it looks very, yeah, engrossing, but stressful. And I kind of want to see it.

42:48And I also got to the end of the trailer and was like, oh my God, I don't know if I have the mental capacity for this right now. My God, that's over it. Yeah, no, in the sense that it looks amazing, but geez it looks stressful as well. There's a lot of that around. So another one is Eden which is the new Anna de Armas film where she leads this, sorry yes, Ron Howard directing Anna de Armas among those starring also like Jude Law is in there, Vanessa Kirby, who else am I forgetting? Just like half the cast of everybody and this is about sort of a bunch of idealists, rich, pampered maybe idealists trying to set up their own utopian society on a remote island and almost immediately falling prey to violence and jealousy and one another, essentially.

43:34So, yes, breakdown of society, not so much a metaphor there as a straight-up plot. So that should be fun. And then even something like Jay Kelly, which is George Clooney playing a movie star with Adam Sandler as his manager. I thought this was going to be a charming flip through movie stardom, but it looks like he's kind of having an existential crisis. Well, it is a Noah Baumbach film. I should have known, really, yes. But here we are, and I had not quite grasped that. I also had the impression somehow, I think because he's wearing a light blue sports coat in the pictures that I had previously seen from this, that it was maybe a little bit like 1960s, kind of a bit of a period piece.

44:16Is it not? No, it seems to be modern day. He's just stylish. He's just styling, anyway.

44:23Ben Travis:I dress like that all the time. I mean, I would describe to the listener what you're wearing now, but it would be too boring, James. They'd all fall asleep. Wow. I mean, it's jeans and a shirt. I mean, it is jeans and a shirt. I mean, it's very nice. It's fine. It's okay. But it's not a blue sports coat, is it? I feel attacked. Wow. Anyway. Should we throw highest to lowest in that mix as well? Yes. We finally have a proper trailer for Spike Lee's new film, which is out incredibly soon. How soon? It's out this month, like two weeks away. September 5th, I think. August, I think. Oh, September 5th, maybe streaming.

44:57Yeah. Right. And this is Spike Lee re-teaming with Denzel Washington for the first time since Inside Man. One of the best direct-to-actor partnerships of all time. Yeah, I mean, I was surprised when I found out it had been nearly 20 years since they worked together. Me too, yeah, 18 years. Because in my head, they've collaborated, like, all through their careers together. So that's exciting enough. It's also a remake of a Kurosawa film, a non-samurai Kurosawa film. high and low and in this version Denzel Washington plays like a music mogul his son is kidnapped and held to ransom for Denzel to shell up a bunch of cash and it looks great I've missed Spike Lee I am excited for Spike Lee to come back and be on the interview trail again because his gloriously impish sense of humor is just one of my favorite things and yeah it's just a bit of a relief that we finally have some marketing for this film that is incredibly close to coming out it's going to be on apple tv in the states it's getting some kind of cinematic release shortly before it goes to streaming as far as we're aware it doesn't have any cinematic release in the uk which is a shame that's hopefully they squeeze one in i think that's true no no no i think it does i think it is coming out here on the same day that it's going to streaming Believe it or not.

46:20I hope so. I'm very excited, let's say. It's Spike Lee and Denzel. It needs the big screen. I'm, yeah, hyped. I have reason to think this is looking really good. So, woo-hoo. Yay for them. But, yeah, again, kidnapping plot. Man's whole life and legacy on the line, you know? Stressful. Are we okay? Are we okay? Is this all okay? No one's okay. Nothing's okay. There was also, and I'm going to try and get the naming right, Emma Mackey as Ella McKay. Yeah. Which is going to fuck me up if I don't concentrate on getting the names right. So this is Emma Mackey playing Ella McKay, who is the youngest governor in her state's history.

47:07She's married to Jack Loudon. She seems to be on top of the world. Everything seems to be going well. until maybe it isn't, and her family are kind of causing her grief. Her sort of estranged dad, Woody Harrelson, is a bit of a thorn in her side. Her supportive aunt is Jamie Lee Curtis, but maybe that isn't enough to kind of hold her together and get her through. This is James L. Brooks' return to film after, I think, 15 years. Do you remember that rather box office disaster with Owen Wilson and Reese Witherspoon? I don't think he's made a film since then. so um it's exciting to have him back for this i'm i'm this looks really fun from the trailer but it is also someone having a bit of a nervo so that's in the like maybe we are okay column i i think it might be yeah maybe we will be okay or mckay hey ella mckay mma mckay i have another one for that we are deeply not okay which is the surprise return of ben wheatley yes you know he's barely been gone he made meg two and then he did the generation zed zombie series for channel four we've known for a while that he's making like an action film with bob odenkirk called not nobody that's the other one but it's from the writer of nobody it's normal normal it's another very similar word he's making that but he's also made something called bulk which is debuting very soon I think the Edinburgh International Film Festival.

48:38And it looks like proper a field in England, in the earth, but even more lo-fi, crazy sci-fi, psychological headfuck Ben Wheatley. It looks like some of that really twisted 1960s British sci-fi that kind of Kim Newman would have like six shelves of in his house. Do you know what I mean? Like this is some really messed up weird stuff, but it's also kind of messing with like big machines and doing stuff to people's minds and perception and kind of, yeah, craziness and not knowing who to trust and paranoia and government interference and a man running around looking extremely sweaty, that man, of course, being Sam Riley.

49:25I think it looks great. Sam Riley. I mean, I think we might all need a Valium before we watch that one. My favourite Ben Wheatley is Ben Wheatley with lower budgets or no budgets left to his own devices doing something to not have to please anyone or any finances. Just saying, I've got a fucked up idea. Give me£10. Yeah. And a few couple of weeks. £10 and a dream. That kind of looks what this one is. Like there's a bit of model work. There's a bit of sort of almost scribbled animation. like it looks lo-fi is probably putting it at the high end of the spectrum again it looks cool looks different looks exciting but it definitely looks like we as a world are on the edge I feel like Ben Wheatley has always felt that he has he has but again it's everywhere him also new trailer this week for the the latest Jordan Peele again fucked up shit happening about a there's a trend here isn't there I feel like it's

50:26Ben Travis:almost like the world is on fire and everything seems a bit bleak and depressing. Do you know what we can do with... Unless you're staying in the White Lotus Hotel. I mean, that's true. Everything could seem a lot better from the massage table. But anyway, I digress. Carry on. What we need is a hero very possibly swinging through the streets of Glasgow whilst onlookers go, it's fucking Spider-Man! Which I did see in a video of somebody having turned up at... Because there's loads of people, there's huge crowds of people who have all turned up to watch them shooting Spider-Man Brand New Day. Tom Holland out in the streets in the costume.

51:00They are very, very intently shooting the start of this film in public, getting crowds of people along, welcoming people, knowing and interacting. There's lovely photos of Tom Holland taking pictures with little kids in Spider-Man costumes and all of that. So sweet. But yeah, there are some incredible, extremely Glaswegian videos of people swearing about Spider-Man in the streets. Can you imagine? And there's tanks driving through the streets of Glasgow, and the Punisher is there. Yeah, it's looking great.

51:31Ben Travis:No one asked him, he's turned up. My question for you, when was the last time in Spider-Man film did we have actual physical, practical web slinging? Because that's not a common thing. Yeah, and John Watts, I think, famously went unquoted to say, like, don't try and do practical web slinging because it never looks great, and, you know, the technology is there to do it. I mean, I love those John Watts Spider-Man films. I think they're incredibly well done. Agreed. But seeing, yeah, this physical footage of like acrobats on a bunch of wires swinging through the streets of Glasgow, that makes me so happy.

52:05The swinging sequences in the Raimi films are so spine-tingling to me. And I know I like quite a bit of that as CG, but they definitely did some practical swinging through the streets stuff on the Raimi films as well. And so it feels like there's a little bit of, you know, old-school superhero movie magic happening. on this one. Did you see as well that the Spider-Punk film is now properly in development? Yeah, that's right. Daniel Kaluuya is going to be on a writing capacity for this one. Exciting, yeah. And it's going to be animated in the same style as Spider-Verse because we've got the Spider-Man Noir series coming up but that's a live action Spider-Man Noir but with Nicolas Cage still in the role.

52:45Naturally. That's a thing that's on the way. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I think this one's animated and I'm excited. I just can't wait to see what fucked up animation they come up with for Spider-Punk. It should be good. In like 10 years from now. Finish Beyond the Spider-Verse first. Finish that first, then give it Spider-Punk. We've got like two more years before Beyond the Spider-Verse is coming out. No, really? It's a long way away. It can still be two years. I think as it currently stands, we will see Secret Wars before we see Beyond the Spider-Verse. I mean, as previously discussed, like, I need it.

53:19I do need it. But take your time. Get it right. Yes, okay, but also do it now.

53:24Ben Travis:Get it right, take your time, but also deliver it immediately. Yes, exactly. Okay, have we got any other good news? How about Star Wars Starfighter? We already knew that we have Ryan Gosling, Baby Goose, appropriately enough is presumably going to be in the cockpit. Hopefully nothing horrible happens to him. But we now have a bad guy as well. We do, and it's Matt Smith. He gives good bad guy. Yeah, he has good Star Wars villain energy. He plays it really well as Damon Targaryen in House of the Dragon. I think he's great because he has that distinct ambiguity. Because he has, like, obviously a very handsome man, but he has quite unusual bone structure.

53:58Ben Travis:And so I think he lends himself to kind of an alien vibe. I don't know what, I don't know, he may not be an alien. He might be just a Corellian smuggler, who knows. But I think some kind of, you know, inquisitorial domed headpiece, something like that could work well for him. Nothing could be more sinister than a domed head, James. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. But also interesting, right, because there were so many reports during the production of The Rise of Skywalker that Matt Smith is in the film. It's episode nine. It's real. It is this good movie. And all these reports while they were making it of Matt Smith has been cast in the film.

54:31There were, I think, strong rumors that he would have been Palpatine in some capacity or a younger Palpatine. Somehow. Matt Smith has returned. He was revolving around in orbit of that production. Obviously, he's not in the finished film. So it's interesting that he seemingly got very, very close to being in a Star War, then wasn't in a Star War, and now should be in a Star War again. Yeah. He's great, though.

54:57Ben Travis:He is great. He is great, yeah. This is good casting. We're very happy. Yeah. We're cautiously optimistic. Cautiously. I still feel weird about Gosling leading, having like... Why? An A-lister-led Star Wars movie feels weird to me. Yeah, it's unusual, but I don't dislike it. I don't dislike it. I'm ready to be, not proven wrong, but it just you? Wrong about Star Wars don't be silly I've never been wrong about Star Wars and I never will be and yeah it's just a different we expect a new Star Wars film especially a new Star Wars film that is introducing whole new things to not come with any baggage of the people cast in it I don't mind it though and I'm very excited that this film is coming though I'm still I think my concern is I want the Daisy Ridley film and I don't know what's happening with that.

55:47Ben Travis:Nobody knows what's happening with that. Yeah, I do. I really do. That's the one I'm excited about most. This for me is the amuse-bouche and that's the main course and I'm just not sure when the main is coming. Well, you'd know all about that because of your luxury hotel stay recently, yes. What's interesting, this has not been reported by the usual trusted sources. So we take everything with a pinch of salt but there have been bits of reports slash rumours floating around this week of what the post-Episode 9, yes, James, there's an Episode 9, universe is going to be, and that it, that seemed to claim that there would be almost a Mandoverse-style approach, whereas rather than, like, a straight trilogy, it is just an era that they're exploring with various characters and storylines.

56:34We know Starfighter is set, I believe, five years after The Rise of Skywalker, so already this film is going to take us further into the timeline than we've ever been before and that part of what is happening with Daisy Ridley's return seems to be that it is not just like, hey, here's one film that Ray's going to be in. It's like we are mapping out the next chapter of the story and that Ray may appear across various projects because of the stature that character holds at this point in the timeline.

57:05Ben Travis:But it's so that they're sort of tying it all together for sort of interconnected, consistent storytelling. So it's nice that they're trying that. So that's good. First time for everything. You're being facetious. I love that trilogy with my whole heart. But maybe they are taking on board the criticism of, like, you should have had a plan. And so what they're doing now is making a plan. Taking the time to make a plan. Maybe she shows up in this film in a smaller capacity. It doesn't seem to be, like, her film, her story. But she is going to be a prominent figure in the galaxy at that point. So stay tuned.

57:35Stay tuned. Yeah. I mean, I feel like, weirdly, I've been watching Star Trek, Strange New Worlds, which is back on TV recently. And is glorious. And is glorious. But it's kind of, I think, showing that you can kind of restabilise yourself and find your own little niche, even in a previously explored timeline of the universe. And it has really been having some fun recently. And I think maybe that's a model for Star Wars. And a reminder also that you can reset, because I think Discovery started strong, went off the rails, came back a bit. But Strange New Worlds, having been spun off Discovery has now ended up, if anything, better than that.

58:14Oh, very much so, yeah. So I think, you know, hopefully Star Wars can also get back on track and remind us why we love it in the first place.

58:21Ben Travis:It's difficult, though, because I think Star Trek has been quite elastic, especially with Strange New Worlds, enabling it to explore different eras, but also different tones and different palettes and different ideas. Star Wars is historically, I think, slightly more consistent in tone. But look, that's not the only good piece of Star Wars news we have had this week. It isn't? No. because Tamora Morrison did an interview at a panel and they said to him, is Boba Fett going to be back? And he said, no. So come on. Oh, no, that's lovely. Whoa. We're all thinking it. Boba Fett sucks. Not because of his work.

58:53Helen, last week, you and I, James, you weren't here last week. I wasn't, no. I'm sure you listened to the podcast while you were in the White Lotus Hotel. We were discussing the next film by your favourite person, Aaron Sorkin. Indeed. The Social Network 2. Yeah. Helen, we were talking about the fact that they had been looking at Mikey Madison and Jeremy Allen White to play a couple of big roles and neither of them were Mark Zuckerberg. And we were speculating that, oh, maybe it's not a direct sequel about Mark Zuckerberg, but it's about, you know, whistleblowers and anti-Facebook, blah, blah, blah.

59:24Since then, they say that Jeremy Strong is potentially up for playing Mark Zuckerberg in that film. That's fascinating. Which I think is casting to die for because nobody on the planet does. I am a lost, confused, empty, soulless abyss of a human being. Better than Jeremy Strong does. Yeah, I mean, between Kendall Roy and Roy Korn. In The Apprentice. In The Apprentice, that's basically Mark Zuckerberg, right? I mean, who can say? but no but i mean clearly physically spiritually he has got what it takes to pull off an incredible mark zuckerberg not in that way yeah yeah thank you for so much for clarifying wow uh speaking by the way of um of kind of prestige drama just for a minute james mangold is reteaming apparently with timothy chalamet uh so they obviously worked on a complete unknown they're talking about re-teaming for a film called High Side, which is, and I quote, a motocross heist movie.

1:00:27Wow. Now, this comes on after Marty Supreme, which will be Chalamet's film at the end of the year, where he will be playing table tennis. So I'm wondering how many, you know, stupid niche sports can he exploit for high drama? You could get a lot of angry letters for just calling table tennis a stupid niche. But a niche sport nonetheless. Is it niche? I think it's niche. The Knights That Say Nish. I am stressed by this news because I really want James Mangold to make his Dawn of the Jedi movie. That is one of the most interesting things I think they've announced as a possible Star Wars project of a biblical Jedi epic directed by James Mangold.

1:01:07I want that. Is it going to happen? Stop faffing around with Timothy. Maybe this is that. Maybe this is the working title. This is the cover story for that. Could be. Because, I mean, Timothee Chalamet, as the, like, progenitor of a religion, he has form. It could work. Timothee Chalamet in a sci-fi, I feel like we could be onto something here. So let's have another guest. No. No, we are having another guest. And it is Benedict Wongers Wong. He can do it all. He's fought aliens and Prometheus. He kind of fought aliens again in The Three-Body Problem. He is the Sorcerer Supreme as Wong or Wongers in the MCU.

1:01:47And this week, he is a school principal facing a crisis after a class full of primary school children disappear from their homes in weapons, which may be his biggest challenge yet. So we sent Ben along to talk to him and find out a bit more. Please enjoy Benedict Wong. Benedict Wong, how are you doing? Hello. Hi, how are you? I'm good. You're in sort of a camouflage get-up at the moment. Where are you? Yeah, I'm in disguise. I'm in an undisclosed address. I'm just sort of decompressing, really, from what's been a magical sort of four days, really, in LA. You know, the preamble of having a few parties before the premiere.

1:02:36So you're in the weapons whirlwind at the moment. What have the last four days been for you? Well, it's been slightly more relaxed. I mean, with whatever. However, you can sort of use a tomato counter, at least like, and the studio's execs seem really, really pleased. Everyone seems really kind of confidently pleased for the outcome. As am I, I'm thrilled to be a part of this before accepting it whilst filming it. And now I'm just sort of kind of in the eye of the storm and enjoying about what's about to be sprung to the cinema audience. Yeah, audiences are in for a title ride with this one. I loved the film.

1:03:26When did you first come across Weapons? Because this was a bit of a legendary script. I think there was a bit of a bidding war for that script. Was it on your radar at all? When did you first come across the project? Yeah, a friend of mine approached me and said there might be something in here for you. And, you know, I read the script and, you know, as you know, I must confess that I probably sort of had nightmares watching Clive Barker's Hellraiser, you know, Pinhead. Yeah. And I suffered a lot from that. And then I kind of guess I thought horror is probably not the genre for me, you know, but when when when this came out and, you know, people involved in this and I was I thought, OK, well, I better do some research.

1:04:18and, you know, I sat through with gritted teeth of watching Barbarians. And, you know, what was the real lifeline was that the, I don't know, the old guy that's in the basement is a friend of mine, Richie Brake. So we kind of softened the blow a little bit. Right. I mean, but a little bit too long in terms of breastfeeding, I must admit. But watching that film, I was just blown away. You just didn't know which direction it was going to go and where it led to. And that's very much the same of how I feel about weapons and how it's cleverly told in each seven segments that kind of interweave this story.

1:05:12And yeah, so I just thought, OK, I'm up for the challenge. Yeah. So you braved Barbarian, which is that Craig's first film, which, again, full of huge twists and turns. Yeah, I'm trying to think I want to come back to this. But my experience watching Barbarian in the cinema and a couple of years ago when that came out, I felt so chucked around by that film in the best possible way. And weapons definitely has some of that to it, too. just so from Hellraiser then to having to watch Warbarian for this have you had any relationship with horror along the way? I've watched Get Out you know I've watched I've seen Presence recently with my pal Kalina Liang who's absolutely fantastic in that but other than that I mean the premiere was the very first time I've actually seen a horror in the cinema.

1:06:12Really? Wow. So that was, and it was at this beautiful, I think it's the Ace Hotel, Ace Cinema, I think it is. And it was a thousand people. Amazing. And, you know, I just sat down and I kind of, you know, I was all right about my bits, but I'd just forgotten about everyone else's. I was jumping around and just kind of contorting and uh it it was a real thrill to kind of hear it's a real collective experience to to hear an audience laughing and screaming at exactly the same point so yeah you know it's uh it was a great experience yeah did that slightly sell you on horror as a genre because the communal horror experience is one of the best things again seeing barbarian with a crowd you just felt the room totally enthralled to where that film was taking them and and the release you get from the screams and the laughs is so intoxicating to me uh did you feel that watching weapons and does that make you think hey maybe i should go down to the cinema more often for a spook fest no no i'm i'm kind of one and done i think uh you know that that's uh that's my go at it i'm i'm just sort thrilled to be a part of this story really you know well as you say barbarian is full of huge twists weapons is full of huge twists and turns and you have uh this story of the disappearance of all these children in a town and all these different characters perspectives and interweaving stories around that central thread what's it like reading a zach crager script because his films are such a visceral experience is it that way on the page how are you feeling as you're reading the weapons script um i you know i was fascinated at uh the stuff before how there was like seven segments to each uh and uh every character's view of what actually happened and um you know there's the kind of like the sort of it joins together piece by piece and you know you really get this full picture further down the end of the film and um you know i i i i was just kind of a bit sort of uh balled over of like the the the shots in the end of how how we actually filmed filmed it all really to be honest yeah were there uh any moments or sequences that really stood out to you i guess we don't want to spoil it for people um but how did what was it like seeing some of those moments you know in the script on the page and then seeing what zach had done with them cinematically i mean you know i i uh to be honest i sort of just kind of i read through it and I just thought, okay, this has got such a great template for something amazing.

1:09:17It's really hard when you kind of get a script. Sometimes you can have a script and you kind of go, this is going to be amazing. It doesn't quite turn out that way, but I always sort of just gently give it enough. I give it less expectation, you know, so there's room for us to kind of breathe into it, really, for me. I just sat down because it had been about a year and I tend to sort of if I'm honest I have a bit of a fishbowl memory, it kind of dissipates a bit and I sort of just see it for what is there that leaves from the page and then what is there on the screen Yeah, and so for you then as Principal Marcus in the story, you're the principal of the school from which all these kids have disappeared overnight.

1:10:09The film explores how all these different characters get pulled into that central story. What was your read on that character? What did you get from Principal Marcus? You know, he's very much the kind of firm but fair, you know, pillar of the community. And when something like this happens about stabilising and kind of quelling the kind of overall anger as well within the community. And just, you know, there's Justine Gandy, who he's kind of got to, he doesn't quite know what is going on, but he's really got to, you know, separate this lightning rod and move it away and just kind of just take a back seat and just stay in your lane very much and allow the authorities to do what they do.

1:11:01And he's just very much by the book, I think as this character yeah what was it like having a chapter of this told sort of from his perspective or in his part of the story and then having these other intersecting other characters views on him and his role in the story did that give you an interesting like perspective both being inside the character and seeing outside the character at the same time yeah you kind of sort of you know you seem as the principal I mean and I'm sure people have ever seen the the trailer You know, he's running with very much a bloody face. And at that point, I sort of questioned whether or not, isn't this a reveal?

1:11:49But yet, it's very much like it's not the destination, is it? this all about what is the journey between from from the a to z and um and with everyone else as well and how that kind of weaves through i think so i i think they've crafted this really really beautifully what was it like coming to this you say you know you don't come from the most horror background but it struck me that for audiences um this is one of your first films uh that people will have seen you in since uh doctor strange in the multiverse of madness working with sam ramey absolute horror legend one of my favorite filmmakers i think there's a direct line you can draw from sam ramey's work to zach's work in how they approach horror uh what was your experience working with sam did you absorb some like horror mastery from him on your uh doctor a strange experience uh i didn't but i just absolutely love sam raimi he's just you just kind of want to jump through so many hoops of fire and i'd love to work with sam again i mean obviously that would be horrible but uh yeah yeah he's he's you know he's just like one of the masters isn't he you know i've been very lucky in terms of in uh of of who i've you know work with uh over my career and uh just a just a really great guy that you just kind of want to um deliver for yeah definitely yeah i mean in terms of filmmakers who you've worked with again and again you are back working with ridley scott on the dog stars what can you tell me about working with ridley because you've worked with him on several projects now yeah we've done I did four.

1:13:41I survived three. I turned up in three in the end. Yeah, you just kind of know how he works in terms of his storyboarding. You know, he sits down for about four or five weeks storyboarding everything. So he knows exactly how he's going to shoot. He's normally in his box, in his booth with so many different screens because there's multi-cameras everywhere. and there's about two or three takes and he's got it and you can just sort of envision him just sort of sitting there like David Bowie, you know, the man who's just watching that and he's watching the take and he's just editing straight away in his head.

1:14:27Right. And it was just, yeah, it was wonderful working with Ridley again. And where were we? We were in Italy, yeah. And in Georgia as well, yeah. so I got to see Josh as well on our second gig. What can you tell me about The Dog Stars? What can we expect from that film? What can I say? I hate revealing anything really these days. I'm just so... It's a post-apocalyptic vibe. It's something, again, where, you know, us as an audience have felt that when we're during the COVID years, you know, and join the blip and um yeah we'll see we'll we'll see what happens from there yeah i can't say too much again sure i mean another thing you can't really talk about is the mcu but where are you in the wong cycle right now because phase four was huge for wong wong was everywhere uh but we haven't seen him in a while are you are you back in the wong zone i don't really know i don't know know what's happened there um i uh i i'm i'm probably not the person to ask anymore um but uh yeah i've still got i've still got my swords around which i uh borrowed from the multiverse of madness so i'm practicing every now and then uh but we'll we'll we'll see um where are they now it's in uh it's doomsday avengers doomsday i think there's secret wars but there's like a little mini phone that rings occasionally that I'll pick up and answer but at the moment you know things are quite busy anyway so I'm currently doing Three Body Problem the second season now in Budapest so I'm quite busy with that at the moment.

1:16:23Yeah how is Three Body Problem going? Are you understanding everything that's happening in season two because that first season was such a trip i haven't read the book so i was just experiencing it raw and it was an incredible ride but yeah it was a real brain workout at the same time in a very satisfying way it is it's a dense watch isn't it and um yeah it requires you to kind of sit up and you know put down the drill plate and uh i think uh season two's uh shaping up really nicely. I mean, obviously, the setup of a 400-year imminent invasion and what we do as humankind, you know, have had our response to that.

1:17:03And so I've just done the first batch of filming in Budapest and it's going really well. Amazing. Well, I can't wait to see that. I can't wait to hopefully see the return of Wong down the line. Congratulations on Weapons. It's an amazing film and you're excellent in it. And I guess we just got to get you in the cinema for a horror movie, man. You've got to do it. You've got to get that audience experience. The collective experience, honestly. I haven't felt like this since Flash Gordon at Monson Cinema in Eccles and the Golden Child ABC Deansgate. And obviously, you know, just get all your friends.

1:17:44Go see it on the biggest screen and scream loud. and yeah, you'll love it. You'll really love it. Thanks so much for your time. Thank you. Cheers. Thank you. Bye. All right. That was Benedict Wong and he was, of course, talking to Ben about weapons. So let's start with weapons for our reviews. This is, as we discussed, the second film from Zack Kreger after Barbarian, which was one of the most gonzo, hilarious, horrifying horror films of the last few years. So how does this compare, Ben? incredibly well because i think it takes a lot of the things that were really successful about barbarian which were those real hairpin turns those wild shifts in perspective that you're in one crazy part of the story burrowing down a rabbit hole and suddenly you're somebody somewhere else and you kind of catch up in the narrative to where you were before weapons is a very different film it has a different tone it is almost a bit of a horror epic in that you explore the aftermath of this horrific incident in a small town, which is that one day, it's a normal day, and Justine Gandhi, a teacher played by Julia Garner, turns up to teach her class of kids, and none of the kids are there apart from one.

1:19:06Every other child in that class at 17 minutes past two in the morning got up out of bed left their house ran down the street with their arms kind of flowing behind them a weird run disappeared a weird run they all just ran out into the night and disappeared and it's a horrible creepy thing that happened and so we explore really the aftermath of that event through several perspectives in the town and so like barbarian shifting you around from like one character to another this takes that to the next level there are maybe six or seven chapters here and we start with julia garner's character a teacher along the way we catch up with alden erenreich plays a cop called paul who is having a very bad personal time and then that kind of intersects with the case there is uh josh brolin as archer who is a dad of one of the kids who's gone missing he personally really blames julia garner's teacher character he's like why is it just her class there's something going on with the teacher austin abrams plays a junkie who is just running away from the cop but he becomes a big part of this story benedict wong as i spoke to uh the other day and had a lovely time he plays uh andrew marcus he's the head teacher of the school and so you have all of these different perspectives within the town you get a real sense of the sprawl of this story of this crazy incident and how it impacts all of these different people and how they become embroiled in picking apart what actually happened.

1:20:41And so you get this multi-layered approach, but also each chapter will end with some kind of crazy twist or some kind of crazy moment. And you're like, whoa, what did I just see? And then it snaps you into a different person's perspective. And you're like, you sort of reorient yourself in the story every time based on like, oh, I've just seen this happen, which I knew happened in that chapter and so it's a brilliant piece of screenwriting by zach craig himself because it takes such an interesting like multi-lensed approach on this one story it's full of incredible horror imagery i don't know about you guys there is a jump scare towards the end of this film that i think is the best jump scare i've seen in years it has the creeping dread factor it's so funny at points as well because barbarian was also like schlocky and hilarious and disgusting and this has that element to it as well so i think it's tonally incredible the way it walks all these lines it has a real soulful quality as well there's an incredible use early on of a george harrison song that soundtracks like a really key sequence in the film that just gives you a sense of like what you're in for in terms of how you're going to feel watching the film it gave me big Mike Flanagan vibes which for me is a huge compliment I think it has massive massive Stephen King vibes as well yeah I agree sort of needful things kind of shifting perspectives life of a small town something horrible in their mids honestly Doctor Sleep which I risk the wrath of Alex here because I think Alex does not like the film I love that film but the novelistic approach and the multi chapters and the almost is kind of like cozy and engrossing to be in this story as much as it's really fucked up and scary at times and i just got lost in this story and this town as it all

1:22:37Ben Travis:unfolded yeah it's just it's bold because it's it's all aftermath like the actual film takes place a month after the inciting incident and i think that's actually quite a bold way of doing this because when i saw the trailer for this you remember the trailer for weapons it's fantastic I mean, if people have seen Barbarian, I guess they kind of knew what they were expecting, but it doesn't mis-sell this, but it markets it in a very specific way, and it makes it seem like a very powerful, edgy, and effective horror, but it doesn't fully translate what this is, either tonally or structurally, because this is genuinely laugh-out-loud funny, but also incredibly upsetting and traumatic and terrifying and all of those things.

1:23:15Ben Travis:And look, comedy and horror have been bedfellows for a long time, and I think great comedy is always, because you're emotionally primed for comedy when you're watching something that's incredibly tense, but the comedy here is occasionally absolutely absurd and yet it doesn't feel out of place. And I think there's a deftness of touch here which is quite extraordinary. It doesn't really come until later. I've got to say for the first 45 minutes, an hour of this film, it is pretty traditionally just fucking sinister, spooky, disturbing. Sad. Sad, upsetting horror. it got me almost as much as James's muck banging.

1:23:52It was on a deep, horrible, elemental level. And also there are jump scares, but they're kind of not because they're not jump scares in like a cheap, obvious, cheesy, cynical way. They're almost like just these horrible shocks and these visual stings. And you really, I don't know, really got the shivers watching it. But then it sort of morphs into more of an idiosyncratic, almost kooky drama where you're watching different characters and it's not just the teachers it's the kids you know there's all sorts of people on the periphery um and then and i just don't want to spoil where it really goes tonally but it just gets fucking outrageous the film goes nuts and although it is this tonal roller coaster that sort of keeps morphing it all feels of a piece because of the way it's written, because of the way it's structured.

1:24:44And it has an integrity that keeps it all together from start to finish. And by the end, even though it's gone in a completely different direction, it delivers on the setup. It knows exactly what it's doing for the whole time. And I would implore people listening to this to go and watch it in a cinema. Because when I came out of this, I thought that is what cinemas are made for. Watching this with a big crowd and everything that it does to you physically and mentally i just like i'd love to watch this again with a few hundred people i need to see this with a crowd because i saw it in a screening room with literally one other person but the last like 10 15 minutes of this film i just wanted to stand up and applaud because it was so thrilling and joyful in how well it was executing both its horror elements and, as you say, this absurd comedy, it was so cathartic.

1:25:39And I was like, is it insane if I stand up and cheer? Which it would have been, so I didn't. But that is truly how the film... But you thought about it. Yeah, it is. There were a lot of... I mean, I saw it in a screening, I don't know, James, maybe 20, 30 people, but there was a lot of... One of the most vocal and more audible screen has been for a long time. There was clearly cathartic laughing going on because you are really tense and stressed and spooked out. And then you are given these moments of madness which give you permission to just go, oh my God, and just have fun with it. Yeah, and I think almost at the end or in the second half, the Rashomon structure of the thing with its shifting perspectives, it almost comes as a release and a relief when you've switched to a new person because you're like, okay, for a couple of minutes, it probably won't be scary.

1:26:29I'll probably just be learning more about this person. And so I can a little bit relax for a couple of minutes until it gets scary again. And something about that rhythm really, really actually helped me enjoy it. Because I could kind of have fun for a minute before kind of girding myself for another scare, which there are plentiful. And there are some kind of some of the same kind of motifs maybe as in Barbarian. There is a moment where somebody is standing at the top of a staircase and you're like, don't, no, no, don't go down those stairs. Why would you? They're so scary. Don't go down the scary stairs.

1:27:02go somewhere else anywhere else uh and and there was a lot of that kind of moment there's there's somebody with scary hair again like there was a barbarian um i just you know i i just had a great time but those things about barbarian of how it knows how to play with the audience how it knows when to give you a laugh how it knows when to give you a laugh but then give you something really scary so you kind of relaxed for a second but then you're thrown in something really shocking. Zach Kregor is very aware of the audience watching this film and he knows exactly how to play with you. And as scary as this film can be, as you know, it's a very dark premise, there's some sadness in this film.

1:27:42It also is sort of speaking to you as an audience member and saying, we're going to have some fun. And that's such a lovely place to be as an audience member, to have a film that you know is holding you in its hands and taking you on this ride. Yeah. Good movie. Good movie. So we gave this five stars. That is five stars. That is a very big recommendation for weapons, which is out this week. Okay, and probably the second big film of the week is Freakier Friday, which is, as the name maybe suggests to some of you, a sequel to 2003's Freaky Friday, which was itself a remake of the 1970-something Jodie Foster film.

1:28:21so this sees the return of Lindsay Lohan once again she is now playing a single mother her character from the first film Anna who was then a teenager is now 30 something single mother to a daughter Harper who's played by Julia Butters who was so good in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood and Anna is about to get married she's about to marry and well done her Manny Jacinto's Eric and his arms and his arms no way Yes, and he does wear a tight black T-shirt in this, so he shows them off. Anyway, he also has a daughter who's in her teens. That's Lily, played by Sophia Hammons. The girls don't like each other.

1:29:01This is important. But meanwhile, Jamie Lee Curtis' Tess, who is Lindsay Lohan's character's mother, they're the ones who body swapped in the first film, she's, you know, all delighted about the wedding, but less delighted that Lindsay and her daughter are proposing to move back to Eric's native London. So everybody's a little bit tense with each other in the run-up to the wedding weekend, which, as you may remember, provided the flashpoint last time, then wouldn't you know it, they all go out for the bachelorette party and the four women swap bodies. So basically, Lindsay and Jamie Lee Curtis's characters end up in the bodies of the two teenagers and the two teenagers' consciousnesses end up in the mother and grandmother.

1:29:46Okay? So there's a lot more to keep track of. I will be honest, at the risk of making myself sound extremely stupid, I sometimes struggle to remember who was who in various scenes. Having said that, this is very silly and way more fun than I expected to have. I thought this was going to be bad. I thought this, my expectations were rock bottom. And I actually had a very fun time watching this. It's so stupid. There are some really cringey scenes. Intentionally stupid. I think so, yeah. Yeah, it's very kind of broad, traditional kind of studio comedy, body swap kind of stuff. But like there's a scene where Julia Butters, attempting to break up her mother's wedding so she doesn't have to stop surfing and move to London, decides to try and seduce Chad Michael Murray's character, who, if you remember, was Lindsay Lohan's teenage boyfriend.

1:30:41The sheer embodiment of 2003 in that film. He rocks up in a Von Dutch t-shirt on a motorbike with flames on the side and his fringe in his eyes. Still got the fringe. He's now updated to like a fancy sports car, which does play a role in the film. But yeah, so you've got Harper, Julia Butter's character in her mother's body kind of trying to seduce him. And it's one of the most cringy flirting scenes I've ever seen in my entire life. and to his credit, he keeps a straight face and just looks at her like, what the fuck is going on? But I honestly had trouble watching it. I was trying to crawl out of my own skin and out of my seat and out of the cinema at that moment.

1:31:24It was really, oh God, so awkward. So much awkwardness. How is the Pink Slip reunion? Because I haven't seen this yet. I'm very excited to see it. That 2003 film is very big for younger millennials. Very big, yes. And those songs, Lindsay Lohan's band in the first film, The Band is Back. The Band is Back. She's playing guitar again. Pink Slip is back together, man. The biggest musical reunion of 2025. I'm going to say there's nothing happening in the UK right now that is as big a musical reunion as Pink Slip. I mean, I feel like Bucket Hats would also be welcome at a Pink Slip concert, so I think that works.

1:32:00Yeah, no, honestly, the music is pretty decent. I mean, it's not K-pop Demon Hunters in terms of catchy tunes of the year, but there's a couple of decent songs here. And it's just, look, it's a fun, silly studio comedy. I had a nice time watching it. I really didn't expect to. So this, we should say, was directed by Nisha Ganatra, who did Late Night a couple of years ago, if you remember that. Anyway, we gave it three stars, far more fun than it deserves to be. And if you are a younger millennial, let's be honest, you're probably mentally adding another star to that already. Although perhaps you are not, James.

1:32:37Probably not, no. Probably not. No, but tell me about the other kind of girl-led film of the week, which is My Oxford Year. Now, this came out last week on Netflix, but they didn't make it available to critics at that point. How is it?

1:32:49Ben Travis:How is it indeed? Is this film of the week, Helen? That's the question we have to answer now. This is My Oxford Year. It is a university-set comedy directed by Ian Morris, co-creator of The Inbetweeners. But if you're expecting, yeah, the look on Helen's face on these fixed volumes. I had not clocked that. Wow. If you're expecting this to be along that same sort of, you know, clunge everywhere or whatever it is from the in-betweeners, you will be disappointed. It is not that. This is set at Oxford University. It basically sees Sophia Carson, who plays Anna de la Vega, and she is a grad student from New York, and she has come to study a sort of postgrad, I guess it's a master's, isn't it, or a doctoral fellowship or some ridiculous postgraduate qualification in poetry.

1:33:33Yeah, but it's like she's doing a master's at Oxford in incredibly easy American poetry.

1:33:39Ben Travis:Right. Yeah, I'm just saying. Helen has questions about the syllabus, and I suspect a great many other things, but we'll get on to that in a second. But she goes there, she's very excited to be in England, she's very excited to be in Oxford, and then she goes out to get some fish and chips, because this is an English film made entirely for Americans. It fetishises England, it fetishises Britishness, everything about it fish and chips pubs you name it the oxford cambridge boat race it's all in here but she goes out to get some fish and chips and then there is a meet cute a meet cute in which there is superb deployment of the word bellend that might actually be my favorite part of this film but she meets uh cory milkreast's jamie davenport and he is a kind of oxford posho fuck boy uh who actually turns out to be shall we say connected to her poetry course and a whirlwind sort of romance ensues.

1:34:29Ben Travis:Now, it's exactly what you think it is. It's comedic, it's light, it's fluffy, it's kind of like diet, diet, diet Richard Curtis. And that's what this film is until it isn't. And then it kind of takes a little genre pivot into another area that we maybe know just as well as very English romantic comedies. And that's a little bit, I'm not going to go into the details of it because you don't want to give that part away, but it's disappointing. I really enjoy the kind of build up the romance, the comedy of it. I'm not saying it's good, but I really enjoyed it. Like I had fun with it because I kind of accept it for what it is, which is a very silly, very kind of cutesy, very twee sort of British romance.

1:35:06Ben Travis:Posh boy meets American girl. The cultural differences. Oh, the fun we can have with that. You know, they go out for kebabs and she's delighted by Dimitri's kebab van. But then it does go into very mawkish territory. You know, there's some tear jerky bits. It gets a little bit silly, but... It gets silly. Everything you said is silly. Oh, it gets much more silly than that. like it gets exceptionally silly I have so many logistical questions about aspects here but again I can't go into it without ruining it but and I will say this all the way through this at no point did I feel myself wanting to turn it off like it's one of these things where it's a poster quote right you're watching a film you're like this film is not good and to be fair it is largely I would say the script that is a problem here because the dialogue apart from the Ben End line is quite weak sourced like there's nothing really crisp like if Richard Curtis had done a pass on this it would be funny, witty, like it would propel you a little bit.

1:35:58Ben Travis:It doesn't. I think the direction is actually pretty solid. I think it makes very good use of location shooting rather than, you know, doing stuff on sound stages. So it does seduce you a little bit with the Oxford geography because Oxford is a beautiful city and the university is stunning. And, you know, let's not even get started on the fucking library, Helen. Oh my God. Right? So, you know, so there's lots to get on there, but the script just doesn't really do it justice. And I think, honestly, if it wasn't for Sophia Carson and Corey Milcreas, who do have great chemistry and really are very, very charming, he's doing his very best young Hugh Grant she's doing a kind of not quite so good Andy McDowell they have that like the core really works and so you kind of you go through it despite yourself and I felt there's a little bit of self-loathing in having enjoyed it maybe as much as I did because it isn't good but Helen I was thinking of you all the way through this because I was like they're going around Oxford and every time they said something about Oxford or went somewhere in Oxford I was like I can't wait to hear Helen's notes on what they have been doing wrong do you know what?

1:36:54Fair play so this is actually based on a book by a woman called Julia Whelan, who spent a year doing a master's at my old college. So she has actually been to Oxford, and to the film's credit, because that doesn't necessarily translate always to film, to this film's credit, they also went to Oxford to film it, and actually, I think, took on board some facts about it. So, like, she does, they have zhuzhed up her room. I don't know many Oxford rooms, even, I think she's meant to be at Maudlin, and Maudlin's very fancy, but I don't think they have a lot of hand-painted murals on the walls of their student accommodation, if I'm honest.

1:37:30So that's maybe, there's been a little flight of fancy there. But a lot of it is kind of recognisable student life. She dresses in the black and white sub-fusk that people have to wear to do exams and sort of ceremonies and stuff at the beginning of the college year. Like, there's some stuff that's all right. There's also some stuff that's fucking ridiculous. Like, apart from anything else, the tutorial system is mostly, like, one tutor and, like, two students. So you would think they would lean into that as a way to give her lots of one-on-one time with her improbably dishy aristocrat tutor, which is, I don't think, a thing that exists.

1:38:04But instead they have like a giant sort of seminar system where there's like 10 of them. Because that's what they've seen in other films. I get, but like genuinely that's a bit weird because that seems wrong unless it's very different at master's level that I didn't bother with. And then there are stuff like they are, so they literally say we're going to Duke Humphrey's library, which is a library within the Bodleian, but it's specifically a library that was, like, donated in the 1400s. So it's specifically a medieval library. So why are you going there to then study 19th century easy poems? You know, there were some nits to be picked before you get into the mawkish stuff.

1:38:40Ben Travis:And everyone watching this will have those exact same complaints, Helen. I'm sure they will. Helen's like, not my Oxford year. I mean, yeah, like, I'm just like, come on. but as depictions of Oxford go, this is a lot less offensive than, like, that Taj, Van Wilder 2, The Rise of Taj, do you know what I mean? Which, of course, was Oxbridge, not Oxford, so that's totally different. Yeah, it could have been a lot worse. It could have been a lot worse. I mean, in many ways, it is a lot worse. It is quite worse. It's also enjoyable. It's that weird Netflix thing where it's not good, you know it's not good, you kind of hate yourself for watching it, but you kind of don't want to turn it off either.

1:39:15Ben Travis:Yeah. Dugray Scott's in it as well, Catherine McCormack's in it as well. Is it bad that I think Doug Ray Scott looks like Michael Palin now? I mean, that's not a bad thing, is it? I mean, I don't think so. Michael Palin's a fine-looking gentleman. He's a fine-looking... Like, I had never put the two together before, but now I feel like they're twins. And Catherine McCormack as well. And props to Harry Trevaldwin, who plays one of the best friends. He's kind of a bit of an MVP scene-stealer as well. He's funny. He is. He's very funny if you follow him on, like, you know... He's getting a few film roles now.

1:39:40Yeah, he is, yeah. So, yeah, it's better than it could have been. Yeah. But still, that kind of Netflix romance.

1:39:48Ben Travis:Now, we have not got an official Empire review for this. You'll be shocked to hear. But I think we can agree it's probably two stars. I think it's probably a two star. It's probably three stars of entertainment and a two star. It sounds like a very guilty pleasure for you. It is. I really enjoyed it. I do. I mean, I like a Richard Curtis-esque rom-com type thing. So, yeah, I was primed for it. No, Prime is a different channel. You're absolutely right, Helen. I was Netflixed for it. Yes, Prime actually does bring us to one of the other films this week, which is The Pickup, which is, I mean, this is directly going to Prime, right?

1:40:21This is the new Tim Story film. Yeah. Oh, wow. Starring Eddie Murphy with Pete Davidson and Eve Longoria and Kiki Palmer. And you would think that that would be a big deal. And sadly, The Pickup is not that. So basically, Pete Davidson and Eddie Murphy are security guards. they have to drive a big armoured truck to pick up and drop off expensive things. And wouldn't you know it, they get hit upon by robbers led by Kiki Palmer and have to protect their cargo and indeed their lives to get through the day and especially get Eddie Murphy's character Randall back to his wife Eve Longoria for their 25th wedding anniversary dinner that evening.

1:41:02I guess everything will go fine and nothing will be a problem. the problem with this one and I know you've been watching it as well Ben it's a lot of up and down roads, car chases like explodey things and vehicles careening into other vehicles and not really very much comedy it's weirdly non-funny especially because it's led by Eddie Murphy and also I love Kiki Palmer Kiki Palmer is such a hilarious person I feel like nobody except for Jordan Peele has yet truly captured the incredible comedic potential of Kiki Palmer. But they are both playing characters who are moderately funny, but they're not playing outright funny characters.

1:41:46So it's a weird action comedy where it's not even really trying to be that funny. I actually found some of the action stuff better than I expected. Some of the heist chase the truck and chuck the things between the truck and exploding die packs. and you can tell they did quite a lot of that stuff practically and we see so little of that done practically these days that there was some kind of like, hey, Tim Story knows what he's doing with an action sequence. And so that was the part of the film that kind of livened up for me. But yeah, weird to hinge this around Eddie Murphy and have him play a largely serious role in what is an action comedy.

1:42:26Very strange. Also, Pete Davidson's really annoying. I try and like, I've got some time for Pete Davidson, but his character is like, hey, I'm the annoying, obnoxious one. And it's like, you are just kind of annoying and obnoxious. Yeah, he is annoying. Yeah, it's not great. And there are roles as well for Andrew Dice Clay. Marshawn Lynch, who was great in Bottoms. Ismael Cruz Cordova from My Beloved Rings of Power. You know, good people. Just, I don't know. It didn't add up for me. So yeah, I don't know if we have an Empire review up yet, but I would be in the probably two-star camp on this one.

1:42:58as well I'm afraid. High too low three. Okay so that is it for this week's reviews and that is it for this week's Empire podcast. Join us next week as I said on about Monday we should have that Alien Earth interview special up with the leads with Sidney Chandler with Timothy Olyphant and I think a bit of Noah Hawley as well if it all goes to plan. And then join us next week for more film related fun when we'll be joined by Celine Song to talk about her new film materialists that oh so ugly film starring dakota johnson pedro pascal and chris evans and we're also going to have dave franco and allison brie here to discuss their new film together together i mean they're going to be discussing together together they're going to be together together so yeah that's good and chris will be back then so i don't have to do that again um and i think james you're also swanning off i'm basically off for august now

1:43:56Ben Travis:I'm not going to be back until September. Absolute part time. We have a live Pilot TV podcast tonight as this episode goes out. And frankly, that's going to wipe me out for the rest of the month. Yeah, so you will be having a fit of the vapors. I'm doing on a tour of the various white lotuses around the world. Of course, of course. So you'll just be having a series of... You'll just be having a series of like spa days to try and recover from... Basically, yes. The rigors of tonight's live show. And making sure that Murray Bartlett hasn't done a poo in my suitcase. Wow, okay. You've always got to check.

1:44:26Those damn influences. All right. Well, till then, I guess. It's goodbye from Alex. Bangalore mukbang? Oh, no. Okay. It's goodbye from Ben.

1:44:39Ben Travis:Goodbye. Goodbye from James. Enjoy August. See you in September. Oh, my God. Part-timer. And it's goodbye from me. I'm off to write a strongly worded letter to Netflix about its depiction of the proper toppings for kebabs for Oxford students. have a good week we'll see you again bye bye