The Psychopomps Are Flying Again (ft. guests Aaron Taylor-Johnson and David Mackenzie)

25:19Chris Hewitt:Empirespoilerspecials.com This is a better word. Hey! Look at that. Yeah, it works. Look at that. And this week, our Project Hail Mary spoiler special with Lord Miller went up. Our Ready or Not, Here I Come spoiler special with Tyler Gillette and Matt Bettinelli open went up. Another Daredevil spoiler special went up. Next week, I've got Peaky Blinders. Oh my God. Our spoiler cup overflowing. £3.49 a month. Can't say fairer than that. All right. Shall we delve deep into the world of movie news? Now, we should say we're recording this on a Wednesday because of Good Friday. so has anything happened?

26:01There was a Supergirl trailer another Supergirl trailer but a more full one a more fully rounded Supergirl trailer with a plot with an idea of the plot right yeah and with a lot of Lobo a medium amount of Lobo enough Lobo that I want to see Jason Momoa's Lobo I am cautiously optimistic about this film wow And I hated Superman with the fire of a thousand yellow suns. Really? You've never mentioned this? But this, like I say, Superman was both silly and stupid. But this film, I think, embraces the silliness in a way that I think is going to work better. And I think maybe that tonality lends itself to this story better.

26:46And it has a Guardians vibe to it. There's something about this that I genuinely want to see it. So I'm feeling, as I say, cautiously optimistic. Wow, this has really turned you around.

26:57Chris Hewitt:Okay, what is our story, Helen? Yeah, so this is actually based on one of the comics, the Supergirl Women of Tomorrow, and it's kind of true grit with Supergirl as the Rooster Cogburn character. So, you know, you look at Millie Alcock, who plays Supergirl, of course, and you think John Wayne. You do. You know, you think Jeff Bridges. It's a natural sort of follow-on from that. So basically, a younger girl asks her for help in avenging her family, and it so happens that the person who killed her family, which is kind of not really dealt with in this trailer, is also the person who poisoned Supergirl's beloved dog, Crypto, which we do see in this trailer.

27:36We do. So she has to go after this person, who is Krem of the Yellow Hills, played by Matthias Schoenert, to get the antidote to save Crypto and generally put things right that once went wrong. Yeah. And along the way, Yes meets Lobo. I still find crypto a bit upsetting. But you see puppy crypto in this one. I'm very anti-CG dogs. I know. Real dogs, yes. CG dogs, no. No to CG dogs and the causes of CG dogs.

28:07Chris Hewitt:James cheered whenever the dog was poisoned at the beginning of the trailer. He was like, yes. So this is all directed by Craig Gillespie. And it's got a little bit of a Guardians vibe. I absolutely agree on that. I think it has a little bit almost of a red dwarf vibe at times, weirdly. What? Yeah, just a bit of that kind of grungy space weirdness. I think it's grungier. I did not get that at all because the effects were good. Because the effects didn't largely look made of cardboard. I'm not saying that the effects are made of cardboard. I'm just saying that there's something about the color scheme, really.

28:39If it is, if it does have a bit of red dwarf DNA, I'm going to like it even more. So, you know. But yeah, I'm hopeful for it. I'm really, really optimistic that it's going to be good. The comic is actually a really good comic. Highly recommend picking up Women for Tomorrow if you haven't already. Cast all look really good here. We get a little bit this time of David Krumholtz as her dad. So, yeah, I'm excited.

29:04Chris Hewitt:There was another trailer out this week from Masters of the Universe, Travis Knight's adaptation of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe, of course. The first trailer was interesting. It had a kind of Thor Ragnarok-y vibe to it. It was quite glib, quite knowing, quite witty. This one seems to have jettisoned that tone, which I hope isn't an indication for the film. Yeah, no, it's still there in the almost, you know the way they're almost doing a post-credit sting on trailers now? Like, it's still there in that bit, but the rest of the trailer is very much emphasizing, you know, Prince Adams, Nikolaus Galitsyn, obviously taking that role, his kind of disillusionment or his feelings of alienation having been exiled from his home and growing up on earth and always knowing that something is wrong and not being able to sort of quite express why always, certainly not openly because then people thought he was cuckoo.

30:02So I think they're leaning more into the kind of there is an emotional heart to this film. There is the nub of something real here. It's not just a dude with improbable muscles waving a sword around at a skeleton. And we get to hear Skeletor's English accent here, which is a thing that's also happening, and see a little bit more of the supporting cast, a little bit more of Idris Elba's man-at-arms. Man-at-arms, yeah. And Evil Lynn gets a little... She doesn't get much to do. Spoiler, she's not a goodie. What? Yeah. I mean, nominative determinism strikes again for Alison Brie, my goodness. So, it looks like a...

30:42I don't know for He-Man movies this is I think I'm not going to say wrong headed it's a more it has less personality than the teaser I think the teaser felt poppy and zippy and full of fun this one takes itself a little more seriously than I would like because I feel like the film is going to be fun yeah and this feels like they're leaning into the kind of action adventure aspects rather than the fun aspects and the nostalgia aspects which I personally wouldn't have done but you know what cover your bases it's all good as long as the film's fine I don't mind. Yeah. Well, let's hope for some, a bit of everything, a bit of the, a bit more than just nostalgia though.

31:18Like everything doesn't need to be based in the 80s. I'm just saying. Anyway, moving on. Whatever. Hey, there was also a trailer for Back Rooms. There was. The weirdy, freaky, you know. Creepypasta type-y thing. Creepypasta, A24, Chiwetel Ejiofor. It's weird and cool and creepy and scary and I like it. Do you know what it reminds me of? and you're going to laugh at me or think I've gone mad, but it actually reminds me of some of the Terry Pratchett ideas of things that are, you know, weird and bizarre and prey on, like, dimensions that prey on our dimension. You remember in that Terry Pratchett book where there's, like, little snow globes and then, like, shopping carts and it's all sort of part of a weird other dimensional takeover that will turn our city, you know, Ankhmerpork into, like, a weird metropolis city.

32:06It feels like that kind of an idea. it feels like there's another dimension prying on ours. And it's sort of like mimicking our dimension, but imperfectly in a way that is deeply disturbing. So we should say, so the plot of this is in, so Chiwetel Ejiofor works in a, is it a furniture showroom? Looks like, yeah. Like one of those slightly weird ones where you don't know why it's still open. And somewhere at the back in the storeroom, there's a wall and you walk through the wall and it takes you into almost like a weird labyrinthine hinterland of like forgotten rooms. which seem to go on ad infinitum and never ever end.

32:41Do you know what it put to mind for me? The Langoliers. You know the Stephen King story of The Langoliers? This idea that there's like a forgotten reality that's left behind to kind of just sort of fester and then these little Langoliers come and eat it all up. But this feels like a sub-reality that almost is like a storam for the leftover bits of our reality. Like it's weird and surreal. People get trapped there. Nothing is quite what it seems. There's things hanging off the ceiling. Like it's all a bit odd. and it comes from this internet meme which being young and hip I definitely know really well.

33:13Very much so, as do I. Anyhoo. All right.

33:20Chris Hewitt:Looks good, sounds good. Hopefully good. Yeah, I think it'll be freaking unsettling at least. Yes, it looks probably creepy. All right. Did either of you see, it's all teasers this week so far, but the teaser trailer for David Robert Mitchell's new film, the guy behind It Follows, who has made a new film that was at one point called Flowerfell Avenue and has now been renamed to the end of Oak Street. And it is about a family led by Anne Hathaway and Ewan McGregor who's speaking of another dimension, another dimension, another dimension, another dimension whose house in Oak Street and in fact Oak Street itself seems to somehow get transported to another world.

34:04Chris Hewitt:Yeah. A world in which dinosaurs run rife. Yeah. Sounds Twilight Sony and weird and creepy, but also pretty epic also. It felt to me like it had a very, not quite young skewing, but young friendly tone to it. Do you know what I mean? Like it didn't feel like it was, this was, this was going to be like a horror scary film. It felt like this was going to be a kind of an action adventure family-ish film. Did you get that vibe from the trailer? A little bit, but I'm still a bit unsettled by it. I do feel like there's a bit of a mini trend for family homes becoming, you know, being put somewhere or families being in peril by that.

34:44There's, I think, a Netflix film coming up where a family are sort of trapped in their home and don't know why, but then, you know, they only have so much water and food and what happens next and what do you do? And blah, blah, blah. Do you think these are all scripts that were conceived during COVID by any chance? I mean, possibly, yeah. But I don't know. There may be a mini sort of a renaissance of such one location kind of horrors coming up. I mean, Undertone even in a few weeks, the podcast horror has a similar sort of one location vibe. Podcast horror? I know, it seems so far-fetched. Nothing bad could happen in a podcast.

35:22Chris Hewitt:Ow, my finger. Helen is now mostly dead. She may graduate to be all the way dead by the end of the episode. We will keep you updated, of course, on that. But this looks good. I thought it looked good very much so yeah controversial opinion alright so here's interesting news Scream 7 of course has been huge at the box office it is going to be the biggest film in the Scream franchise and by no little distance as well so naturally they decided to end the franchise there they said we're done we've hit the heights we don't want more money leave them wanting more we don't want to give them anymore no of course not they're doing Scream 8 Scream 8 is on its way even as we speak they do turn these things around pretty damn quickly and Lilla and Nora Suckerman who were showrunners on Poker Face are going to write this they're going to write this movie I don't know yet who's directing it whether Kevin Williamson will return to direct is I guess they're going to wait and see what happens, right?

36:37Yeah, I would assume so. The Zuckermans also wrote the Buffy pilot that was cruelly cancelled before we could see where it was going to lead recently. So they're obviously so hot right now, frankly. And fingers crossed that this will be a good scream, I guess.

36:52Chris Hewitt:I believe they will be the first women to write a scream. Now that might shake things up. That might make things interesting. Who knows? perhaps I shall catch up on the last five or so films before it comes out oh boy did we also see that Ryan Gosling is going to be starring in the Daniels new film yes we did see that oh but we didn't say it oh okay hey Ryan Gosling is going to be starring in the new film from the Daniels is he? tell us more well I don't really have very much more but I'm excited about that do we know what it's called? it's going to start shooting in LA later this summer it's still wrapped in secrecy the plot is under lock and key it may be according to a Collider interview with Daniel Kwan a fun sci-fi action comedy with a big heart very existential right Project Hail Mary 2 that's what I'm saying I'm just sticking to that amaze amaze amaze well this is interesting because they have talked there's been rumors and rumblings because Project Hail Mary is doing incredibly well at the box office it had a bigger than expected opening, stop it.

38:03Chris Hewitt:And it's done really, really well. It's got a lovely hold in the second weekend. And there have been rumblings that there might be a sequel, that there could be potential for a sequel. I really, really hope there isn't. So do I. Yeah, me too. That's a terrible idea. I wouldn't say terrible. It's fairly terrible. I mean, you know, in an infinite universe, all things are possible. It could be that there is a great sequel to be had, but at the moment it feels perfect just as it is. take a leaf out of Spyglass's book and just leave it alone they scream seven we're stopping there that's what you need to do Chris no you need to stop there unless of course you have a resurrection eh oh oh eh yeah I don't want another Project Hail Mary because I don't what could the story be but let's not speculate in case we spoil the film for people who haven't seen the first one yet but I just don't know what the story could be but then again I'm not paid to come up with a story I guess as Andy Weir and Drew Goddard and Lorda Miller that's on them but it's really interesting how that's done so well the box office and the Scream thing as well Scream 7 becoming the biggest installment in the franchise I honestly don't know because it's not as good as Scream 5 and 6 now they've been going up so there's a lot of interest clearly in this franchise but it's interesting to me that Radio Silence Matt Bettinelli, Olpin and Tyler Gillette didn't direct Scream 7 and then the movie they directed instead of Scream 7, Ready or Not 2 comes out a couple weeks after Scream 7 and doesn't do remotely as well.

39:41Yeah.

39:41Chris Hewitt:And there's like a sliding doors moment maybe going on here but it's just fascinating to me in terms of horror at the box office right now because something like Scream 7 hits really big comparatively and yet other films like Ready or Not and they will kill you are kind of just, yeah, they're absolutely stumbling. Scream had a clearer run at cinemas, I think, and there was less maybe happening right then apart from, you know, awards-y films that were a very different proposition for a Friday night. I think, you know, the two more recent horrors have had to fight against, like, Project Hail Mary having unexpectedly brilliant success and really kind of sucking up a lot of the online energy and online excitement, maybe.

40:26Chris Hewitt:Usually a rising tide lifts all boats. Usually if something like a Project Hail Mary gets people into the cinemas and droves, they go, oh, okay, that screening is sold out. What should we see while we're here? Let's go see this Ready or Not film that's been getting pretty decent reviews. You know, not amazing reviews, but pretty good reviews, and it's a fun film. It's interesting to me. It's just such a lottery at the moment. Scream 7 is not that good, and yet it has really hit in a way that other films are just struggling to do so. For me, it's a complete lottery. Nobody knows anything. Nobody does know anything, yeah.

40:59But, you know, all the more reason to take risks, I guess.

41:03Chris Hewitt:Yes. Try new things. Although. I know. The lesson's not born out, but the fact that the risks are not doing well. Damn it. And the second kind of series. But then Project Hail Mary is an original, big-budget sci-fi. And its success surprises me. Not because it's not brilliant, because it is brilliant, but because it's a quite long, quite thinky, quite deliberately paced film. And, you know, I'm thrilled to bits that it's done so well. Me too. Yeah, absolutely. Anything else you want to talk about? They've confirmed that John Hanna's back for The Mummy. Yes! Not Lee Cronin's The Mummy. Speaking of radio silence.

41:39Very different. Speaking of radio silence, indeed. I thought this was already confirmed, so I'll be honest. I was surprised it was news, but I'm delighted because it would be the lesser without him. It would. Jonathan, heaven forfend that the film be in any way disappointing or boring. Don't you come for the mummy, all right? I know it's like off your face. No, look, it's rule of averages. They will make a good one at some point, and this could be it. You are on thin ice.

42:07Chris Hewitt:Inside hell and there are two wolves. One wolf asks for original content every week, and the other wolf goes, you come for the mummy reboot, and I will tear your eyes out. Is it going to be good? Probably not. Do I care right now? No. And also in this house, we do not disrespect the 1999 film because it's really fun. Is it? Yes, it is really, really lovely and wonderful. All right. So shall we have two lovely guests? Sure. Yes. Yeah. Silence. Shall we have Aaron Taylor-Johnson and David McKenzie? Fantastic. Fantastic. Let's do it. So one is the star and one is the director of a brand new thriller, which is in cinemas from this week and will be on Sky Cinema in a couple of months time.

42:54Chris Hewitt:I'm guessing it is called Fuse, F-U-Z-E. That's unusual spelling. It is explained in the film. And what is the film? The film is a heist thriller in which an old unexploded World War Two bomb is discovered at a London building site. They dispatch Aaron Taylor Johnson to defuse the bomb. Meanwhile, as this is all happening, the local area is being evacuated, all except for a group of ne 'er-do-wells. No. Led by Theo James and Sam Worthington, who use this distraction to break into a bank and do a bank job. Will they be discovered? Will the bomb explode? what is happening what is reality all of these questions and more are explored and some are answered in David McKenzie's fuse which we'll be discussing in a few minutes in the review section but first I went along and spoke to McKenzie and Taylor Johnson who worked together before on The Outlaw King which also starred Chris Pine and we had a good old natter enjoy David Aaron welcome to the Emperor podcast how are you both amazing yeah thanks for having us yeah yeah this is a tough film to talk about guys uh because I can't talk about anything past the first five minutes there are so many twists and turns I don't want to give anything away yeah so we'll tiptoe carefully don't worry but I understand this is like a 15 year passion project for you David yeah it is actually to be honest yeah it it it it was generated as an idea about that long ago.

44:40And then Ben Hopkins is a friend and a great filmmaker in his own right. And I were sort of going to various film festivals and I kind of pitched the idea to him and said, what about doing this mashup of a bomb disposal movie and a heist movie? And it was kind of pretty much as basic as that. and then Ben ran with the ball and wrote the script and then I got busy and made some films and the script evolved a bit bit by bit he got busy until eventually the time was right and then we sent it to Aaron

45:21Chris Hewitt:and the rest is history because this beautiful friendship had begun already on the Outlaw King that's right so you guys first met what nine years ago or so? no that's going to be longer longer than that ten? nine to ten? Outlaw King comes out looking yeah no absolutely i mean it's always wonderful to get that call from a director you work before and had a wonderful experience like outlaw king you know was really informative and i had a lot of growth on that as in terms of like acting and learning i learned so much under under mckenzie because he allowed and he does this this is his process his style is to kind of create this wild chaotic environment and then just use an actor if you you feel comfortable in your character like you know you just let you run and go and and it is an immersive experience and feeling and i think it really filters out some actors who who don't feel comfortable you know And it really means that you got to go do your prep, you do your work so that you, you know, there's not a moment where you can get lost because he might not cut for a while, you know, and just see what happens, you know.

46:35And there's, but that exciting thing of like feeling like going beyond what was on the page is always like, there's this exciting area, you know, there's this gray area that can go. It's spontaneity happens.

46:47Chris Hewitt:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Happy accidents happen. but just jump back to like the um how this kind of story came about like i mean that was one of the other things what drew me to true drew me to it was that that you had this passion this idea you and ben like been thinking about hurt locker was inspiration then it was like french 70s like heist movies like alan delon movies like robbie can i get away with it what what kind of what goes into that and like and then shooting it in London sort of putting it in London and then just the idea though that this this concept I mean this is really weird this came straight out out uh came to me after the writer's strike right and I was just you know we were all very in a place of like where's you know we need our writers we need creativity we need originality and I think something like this came from an idea of a film a director and a writer um and it wasn't an ip it wasn't meaning it wasn't from a book right it wasn't from a book it wasn't from a graphic novel or anything it's just like it's really original and kind of going to see if we can do this mash up and kind of see how that happens does it keep the stakes going and then and then the characters around that how do they kind of come about so it's that's an exciting way of just like movie making and i was just really involved in in inspired by like that and drawn to that as well you know it's an exercise in genre david i mean i was talking to theo about this yesterday because i talked in for the podcast as well and we're talking about the fact that we know very little about the characters for the first 30 to 40 minutes we sometimes don't even know character names and so it feels like an exercise in how much an audience can imprint upon characters and become infested in characters, having been given very little information other than this life and death situation that they're dealing with.

48:39What's interesting is you try and feather in little bits of detail. For example, the scene where he prepares the drinks and you have to infer there's a whole bunch of history behind his eyes. And you get the challenge of having a kind of real-time narrative where you really don't have time to throw some big backstory in there or whatever. So you're living in the moment and then with your cast trying to build those characters up and get a sense of who they are with that very limited material. And there's something really interesting about that. And actually, it's always easier than you think because i think audiences do kind of like you know it sort of try and work work their way through and imprint you know things on on those characters when that when they're when you're kind of engaged in action based stuff you know yeah also things you know like reading something like this we were like and it was a page turner like you know david sent it to me and i was like mate this is like it's super exciting and and also like but you're like if you know it's such a kind of high concept in itself like this kind of idea that this could be is could it be possible or does that happen a lot you know and then and then we went well we're going to get in touch with some military experts and police and and eod specialists and kind of dig a little bit deeper and kind of see how much we can like how far you know does this all flop and they've really helped us because they they affirm that that these things are i mean that you know that's a global bomb is discovered almost every years in London you know what I mean yeah the police have particular protocols and they only have protocols you know wasn't it like a year just we read it and then like a few months six months later like there were there was one that was found in like Exmouth Exeter it was an Exeter well I mean there's one found in Belfast several found in London there's one found on the road who tracks outside Paris you know um Ben lives in Berlin they phone in Berlin you know yeah yeah sort of it it's the sort of shadows of the second yeah no it was this kind of interesting kind of thing and then you know and then it just kind of informed like oh that's kind of wild that this you know and then and then what would be the protocols then we'd have evacuation then we'd have this this would happen and that would go and then and then kind of crazy details like you know and then we'd ask the police it's like right we want 20 pizzas and you go you'd want 20 so how does that help the and they go because we're hungry you go oh right yeah so you get the police to go get your visas and you're like yeah yeah yeah concierge be like yeah and i just remind them that you know we're the military and like we've got we've got something big to do you know yeah and yeah and he's got some

51:23Chris Hewitt:booze with him as well right so he's he's bringing he's he's come prepared he comes prepared to this yeah i mean there's an element of irregularity to those guys you know they're incredibly brave and put themselves in harm's way and so maybe the normal rules don't fully apply. Yeah, no, I think it's interesting. You pull, you know, you do these things. I think it comes out of an idea, right, an artist's idea and then you kind of go, you know, how plausible are these things? And you start exploring and go, well, this is what we're doing. By the way, I found one not too long ago and my mate got called out to do it and this is what he did.

51:59And you're like, this is mad. Wait, what? you know what i mean and then like you know our guy nick nick or who's our eod specialist who's in the military and now he's in privatized you know uh organizations and going over there in the front lines at the moment so i mean so he would like he's seeing so many other things that happening you know what i mean and you take your expertise and all these other stuff so it's it's really extraordinary it really informs certain ideas and characters anyway we get into it and you know and then at the end of the day we want to make an insane heist movie but absolutely the point is is that we goo goo you know me sat you know we all have to go it deep in and do our do our homework and do our work and then you know you get and then and then let it flow yeah did you

52:44Chris Hewitt:base them on anyone uh iron in particular because again yeah you're you're very good with the accents yeah another accent for you to your collection yeah nick yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's our consultant guys there's a lot like you know and then you know but then also just kind wanted yeah oh yeah i wanted to be i can't remember where i place it up north i think it was i can't remember if it was leeds or sheffield or something i can't remember where it was kind of a specific he's a he's a real shapeshifter so you know it's and it's really interesting watching i think it's you're like i just don't want him to be based in london i just wanted to you know it was kind of interesting because i came on and then the had already come in and he was like well he's got he's south african in it and he was like oh wow it's kind of but then it's like that's the think that's the brilliance of london and and the you know the world is just it's not doesn't have to it has to feel like you know you know diverse and you know international and and feels like what's you know when was the last time you used your own accent i won't because the first time i met you was on kick-ass and you were already doing accents then i would never feel i'm a person who doesn't feel ultimately i feel i don't feel comfortable in my own skin on camera like this is like i find this just there's a whole new thing i have to learn you know yeah you could do an accent for this and just know it yeah i could and but like yeah and back in the day i used to actually wouldn't i know i think you know it's just that um yeah i the fact the joy of being able to do what i do is like you you want to it it starts with it's so many things it's the what the physicality it's the voice it's like the hobby the you know habits and everything you start to find and you gotta you know I like to be immersed in a character and sort of feel it otherwise I don't know how to switch in a bit okay you know but your voice is really important to you that you know I I remember on High Look King yeah because you know he's playing James Douglas he had a battle cry which is to to you know to remind his enemies of his name and so he'd go Douglas and and and I you know i hear aaron in the distant of the sets you know like you know shouting that that out and kind of which is you know a combination of voice and character you know and and that you know so you channel that and and turn that into your advantage and the funny thing is like it's nice to be told those things because i totally forget as well like i'm so like um you know i i go into a space and then i and then and then the moment the thing's finished it like i have to shed it and go away from it and then you kind of go wow I was absolutely mental and then two years later someone asked you questions about it you know or like you know yeah that was kind of difficult whoever that person was that was weird I would never do that so tell me about the specific days you spent shooting because I think we can say that there's quite a lot of film is spent in that building site trying to defuse this World War 2 bomb and what was that like for you both filming those things were you desperate to get out at that site at the end of it all?

55:52I was definitely desperate to get out at that site it was also it was very very noisy it was it was sort of it was a parking lot in Wembley and we built an amazing set it was very three dimensional but it was not the most pleasant of places to be um and i think it was really intense i mean we were what do we speak spend one week or two weeks almost i think it was 10 days 10 days i think okay i was on i had 14 days on this shooting days and um and uh for whatever you know it was all back to back but then that was almost in the middle of the movie almost because you had shot theo stuff at the beginning and goo goo and and then was near the end or the middle it was the second half yeah and so it's interesting because like you said it kind of in the the tension the speed of it and the and the um informed quite a lot of what else was going on and you know you're speaking into comms to people that you've already shot and things like that and i think it's it's that in itself is a challenge coming to something and kind of going almost shooting it back to front and not like you know and you're i think and also you've got another energy because of what was beautiful about each character is in their what you're immersed in their world like you're in google's world you're in the theater's are you in my world and then and uh and uh and then it's like how these all mash up and collide and uh so it is interesting and it became a bit like i would say that construction site became a bit of our stage because of what that how the choreography and the blocking of what needs to happen the protocol of like this now needs to happen and this goes off and then that happens and this would you know there's a lot a lot of sort of practicalities around what would really happen in a situation like that and and also how to keep the tension and going and so it's a challenge it was difficult but yeah it also but i mean it was very concentrated which is good you know and we were mostly sequentially we were sequenced we shot our construction in sequence didn't we because of like continuity on stuff we'd come back to the next day and if a building was down or this or you know so we worked with that and that was quite great i think and and also like does this jacket come off and then that thing your sleeves get rolled you know continuity city stuff like that but you know you've got to get back in the mindset and how dirty you are whatever's going on you know what I mean it's

58:28Chris Hewitt:yeah on that note guys always a pleasure Aaron, David thanks so much thank you thanks for having us on man appreciate it okay that was Aaron Taylor-Johnson and David McKenzie talking about Fuse with a said and now it's time for the Reviews with a said section of the show talking about the films that are out in the multiplexes this week and on your sofa plex as well Jimbo hello let's start with Fuse shall we what are your fuse on Fuse? I refuse to talk about Fuse. Thank God. There we go. Helen, what are your fuse on Fuse? No, Jimbo, you go. Yes, you've already heard from Aaron Taylor-Johnson and David McKenzie, but this is a heist movie in which a construction site in the middle of London all grinds to a halt when they discover an unexploded World War II bomb, a 500-pound bomb, which is big, big bomb, big bomb.

59:19Big bada boom. Big bada boom. Little Dennis Bader. And of course that, they have to evacuate, you know, loads of streets around the... Something like 900 metres, whatever it is. 800 metres in every direction. 800 metres, there we go. 800 metres in every direction has to be evacuated. But of course, there is a gang waiting to do a robbery. And they use this distraction. So under the cover of bomb disposal, they burrow into a bank vault to steal shit that isn't theirs. Because that's how robberies work. If it was stuff that was theirs, then frankly, this would have been overkill. Dishonest misappropriation of property belonging to another with intention permanently to deprive.

59:56Look at that, the legal definition. It's almost like you were trained as a barrister. There you go. Anyway, yes, so this is a team led by Theo James, and you can tell it's Theo James because he's South African, and he speaks with a South African accent, or a close approximation of one. No, I think it's a pretty good South African accent. Diplomatic immunity. Yes, while they're trying to stop the bomb from going off, the heist is going on and things happen. It's a heist movie, but I think the main thing I took away from this is that it is no Den of Thieves 2 Pantera.

1:00:29Chris Hewitt:Oh, good Lord. Well, very few films are. Very few films are. Including Rafiki. Indeed. It's kind of fun. It's got a propulsive kind of tension to it early on when you are waiting to see what's going to happen with the big badaboom. There is a framing of some of the characters that doesn't come until the third act, which I found a very odd turn, a very odd way of structuring a film that is not based on a true story. Because it had the hint of something that was based on fact, and because it wasn't, I don't know why you would structure it that way. I don't want to spoil it, but that, I mean, yeah, it threw me.

1:01:06It's an exercise in genre.

1:01:08Chris Hewitt:I talked about this with David McKenzie. It's an idea of, you have very little information about any of these characters for the longest time, and can you as an audience member become involved in their stories despite not even knowing their names sometimes. And I think that's fine, but it expects you to do a kind of, I guess, a sympathetic contortion in the final act of the movie, which just felt a little bit weird to me. So when it ended, I was just like, huh. I mean, I had fun watching it, but it is very silly. It's very, very silly. It starts off quite serious and then gets very, very silly.

1:01:43And that was okay by me because I just watched Super Mario and I, you know, that was all right. But it is, and it's silly to the point where over the credits, they do a sort of where are they now for some of these fictional characters. With gags. And I was just like, what is happening? Why do we care? This is so weird. Why do we have this and why are there random gags in it? It's a really odd choice. It was, but like at that point, I was just like, oh, you're just being silly. You're having, bless you. You're having fun. Well done, everybody. I quite enjoyed the heist. You know, we talked about competence porn the other week.

1:02:16Like, they are pretty competent thieves. There's some moments where they could have, like, thought things through better, but there's, you know, there are moments of real, we have a plan, and here we are doing it, and I quite enjoyed that. But it's not Ocean's-level heist porn. No. Like, it's quite, you know, they're not bumbling. Like, they're journeyman thieves. But they managed to stay ahead of, you know, Gugu and Bathur Ra is the sort of head of the police who's, you know, in control of this whole evacuation, trying to contain this whole problem. so you know I enjoyed it do I think it's good I'm not sure if it's good but I had fun yeah you don't get bored no it's like 90ish yeah it's an easy-ish kind of fun watch that you will instantly forget about and never revisit

1:03:00Chris Hewitt:I thought it was a good thriller I could watch it again lots of twists and turns lots of stuff going on and character reversals and unexpected developments and some developments that might be expected but you know they're pulled off with a little bit of panache and I enjoyed I enjoyed all the performances I like Aaron Taylor Johnson's ongoing commitment to doing every accent in the British Isles and some outside as well I like Theo James' commitment just randomly to be in South African we talk about it in the interview yes that's right James thank you we talk about it in the interview I did with him why he decided to go South African it was a very late in the day development I think for him I think he's South African so that's good I think Gugu's a bit wasted yes very much so she's better than that role yeah I do wonder if there's a lot of stuff cut from this movie it's structurally it's really interesting I'm trying to set up an interview with David McKenzie so we can talk about this film unfettered by fear of spoiler and because there are questions I would like to have answered answer them god damn it but I enjoyed it I thought it was a good time at the movies.

1:04:13Chris Hewitt:And once upon a time, of course, the most terrifying four words in the English language were a Sky Cinema original. No longer, I think, is that the case. They're getting their act together slowly but surely, and this is another step in the right direction. I enjoyed it, but I very much felt that it was a Sky Cinema original. I very much feel you're a Sky Cinema original. Look, hey, look, if you love a heist movie, if you enjoy a heist, then Den of Thieves 2 Pantera is streaming and available now. And if you like a heist, then Den of Thieves is also streaming. And even better. Yeah, can I recommend just watching no other movies except those two?

1:04:47There are so many other movies, guys.

1:04:50Chris Hewitt:Well, yes. Like so many. Like The Princess Bride and Aliens and Evil Dead 2. I'm begging us, see more movies, for the love of God. See more. See more. Little Shop of Horrors. Yes. Suddenly, see more. But even Ocean's Eleven, we've just mentioned it. Like, just out of heist movies. Yeah, but I've already read the Wikipedia entry. Oh, boy. I don't know anything about the actual film. Here, there's a great, great sequel, Ocean's 12. But there we go. We gave this one three stars. Three stars then for Fuse with a said. Next up, Helen, the drama. Drama. So, yeah, this is the new film from Christopher Borgley, who made Sick of Myself back in 2022, Dream Scenario, the one with Nicolas Cage.

1:05:36Chris Hewitt:Yeah, good film. the following year and now this so this is zendaya and robert pattinson as a couple who are about to get married you know everything looks perfect on the outside um they are very much in love they're crazy about each other and then they go out with their besties mamadou athi and alana heim uh about a week before the wedding and they talk about how they uh shared the worst thing they'd ever done before they got married and how this was very freeing and sort of, you know, helped them come closer. So they all decide to do this. Oh, no. And... Don't do that. Zendaya's Emma says something that basically shocks them all and puts her entire relationship with Charlie, the Robert Pattinson character, into a new light.

1:06:22And he has to kind of... Well, he basically begins to spiral and starts wondering, you know, do I know this person at all? What am I marrying into? You know, what does this mean? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Wow. So it's essentially, and she also is somewhat spinning out because, you know, now these people close to her know about this great secret that she had and she's trying to deal with the aftermath of that as well and also kind of process it maybe in a way that she hasn't maybe before. This is a very hard one to talk about because you can find out the spoiler if you want. Don't. It's out there.

1:06:56Don't. I would very much recommend against it. It has been controversial. Some people see it as making light of something you shouldn't make light of. I don't think the film is doing that, but I do think it's not as funny a thing as I thought this was going to be. I thought it was going to be shocking and weird, but not quite as upsetting as it is. And that did make this a sort of a harder watch than I had anticipated, you know, because I'd just seen the trailer and I knew she was going to say something that everybody was shocked by, but I didn't know what. So I just kind of assumed it was going to be a different kind of shock than it in fact is and i think that some people are going to and some people in fact already have hated the film for the revelation no stars in the boston globe right there no star no star no stars well that's drama and i don't think it is making light of the thing and i think it is kind of engaging with that in a sort of interesting way sounds dismissive but it is engaging that in a thoughtful way um but at the same time it's a really hard thing for your even black comedy to get past that is a is a big ask and i'm not sure that for me it 100 did i think tonally it was a very weird film as a result but look it is an independent film this is not going through this is not trying to be my best friend's wedding you know it is trying to be a very sort of stranger film than that this is another a24 so it's yeah it's definitely playing in that sort of space ari aster is one of the producers so that should have you on alert for weird shit.

1:08:31What's the worst thing you've ever done?

1:08:32Chris Hewitt:Bo is afraid. I mean, you're not wrong. Anyway. We love him. We love him. We don't maybe love Bo is afraid. The point is, I think it is a very difficult sort of thing to balance, and I'm not 100 % sure that this film 100 % does. Having said that, I thought the performances by these two were off the charts. Oh, career best. Both of them. Particularly Robert Pattinson, who I thought was absolutely stunning. I think he, I expected it to be Zendaya's film and I actually think it's his film um I think he's really really brilliant in this and it's if you're uh if you're a fan or even if you're not a fan I mean it's time to I think get over not being a fan and and you know yes he was in Twilight and I'm sure you don't like it but you I'm also sure you haven't seen it I don't think he was wild about it either and I don't think he's wild about it either and he is genuinely I think a great actor I yeah I love them in this but as a film I'm a little bit more hesitant I love this film absolutely love it and I think the discomfort you talk of I mean it is deliberate right that particular revelation is chosen specifically for the discomfort because this whole film is built on a foundation of discomfort it's about making you feel as uncomfortable as possible I have a personal sensitivity to cringe humour and cringe sequences and any kind of fremdsheim or vicarious embarrassment.

1:09:56And there is a speech in this where I honestly think I folded in upon myself and became a singularity. I was so, I cringed so hard. It was so excruciating. My mind just stopped being able to process it. I literally, at several points in this film, had to close my eyes and pretend to be somewhere else because I couldn't deal with it. But I really, really enjoyed this film regardless. And that's saying quite a lot because I really, really hate cringe stuff. but I thought the performances were fantastic I love that it makes you so uncomfortable and actually I think it's so perfectly pitched as something that doesn't sound ridiculous but makes you squirm in your seat because you don't know quite how you're supposed to feel or how you're supposed to deal with it and the fallout of everything that comes afterwards feels incredibly real because like other characters don't know how to deal with it either and the way that scene is delivered and the way she's so offhand about it you're just like you're almost the characters look at each other for a moment and they're like and they laugh nervously and you as the audience feel very much the same way and

1:10:59Chris Hewitt:I cannot wait to see this movie now because I was excited anyway but I want to know what the fuck this is and you know you won't ruin the film if you do know what it is but I would suggest not because you want to be in that moment with those characters yeah very much so and it's beautiful I'm not surprised it's very controversial I'm not surprised that it has pushed a lot of people's buttons and people have reacted violently against it but personally I think it's great Alright, exciting stuff we gave this one four stars four stars in for the drama Speaking of the worst thing that people have ever done brings us neatly to the Super Mario Galaxy movie the first movie was so bad flames in the side of my face just a kind of insulting mindless dreck that people usually assume is served up to kids and kids movies and most animated movies are many, many levels beyond that.

1:11:51Chris Hewitt:I assume, James, that for the Super Mario Galaxy movie, which obviously the first one made, the Super Mario Brothers movie, made over a billion dollars, and people, just kids and families, just devoured it. But I'm sure that lessons have been learned, and this movie is a course-correcting steer towards pure cinema. That is exactly what has happened. Directors Aaron Horvath and Michael Jelenic have created, I think, Masterpiece. The singularity. It's a word you could use. But let's talk about language for a little bit and the meanings of words. So let's take, for example, the word hateful. Hateful is a word that you could use and you could apply it to something like this.

1:12:32Because the problem with this film is it is so creatively bankrupt. It is so cynical. It is so life force sappingly tedious that I honestly, there were parts where I felt like I was going out of my... I was sitting next to Helen. I think we both had this. I felt like I was having an out-of-body experience. And I am someone for whom this film should be appealing because I like Mario. I play the games. I know the stories. I've played Super Mario Galaxy many, many times because it's loosely based on that. We should say from a story point of view, this is... We don't need to know. I mean... You're sure?

1:13:09Brie Larson plays another princess, Rosalina, and she is abducted by Bowser Jr. Benny Safdie. Right. And they team up with... Yoshi. Yeah. Donald Glover. Played by Donald Glover. And then, oh my God, Glenn Powell turns up as Fox McCloud from the Star Fox games. So there's a lot of Nintendo IP farming going on here. Are there Pikmin in it? Pikmin, I was going to say. I don't know who they are, but somebody told me. There are a few other, which I won't spoil, little Nintendo nods in there. There are lots of lovely little musical cues. there are sort of 8-bit and 16-bit graphical sequences to kind of nod to the original Super Mario Bros.

1:13:50game. That sounds good. And the Super Nintendo version. There's lots of... So if you play the games, there are a lot of things you'll recognise. And so like I say, I recognised all that stuff. My nostalgia bones were tickled and I still wanted to set my own face on fire while watching this because I'm not even kidding. And I'm not... You know, genuinely, this film made me so angry because it has no ideas. It has no real jokes. The dialogue is non-existent. I mean, there's very little dialogue in it. It's just, I think you said this in your review, Helen, this is just stuff happening for no particular reason, and you almost certainly won't remember why or what happened.

1:14:26It's just things, colorful things going around the screen. And if someone had told me this had been created entirely by AI, I would believe them. There's no feeling of human creativity to this. It's 100 % cynical IP farming by the numbers. And so it made me cross. very very cross

1:14:44Chris Hewitt:the first movie made me cross as well because those directors directed Teen Titans go to the movies which is delightful fun and delightful and subversive and inventive and IP farms in a really really interesting way and the first movie was inert and unfunny and looked great I have to say I understand why parents would bring their kids to this it's a very easy thing to do to go along and here's the bright shiny film but the fact that this movie is going to make in one weekend what Hopper's has made in its totality is really really depressing I say that of course I haven't seen this movie and I'll be honest I never will but there are so many great animated movies out there there are so many great inventive animated movies out there that this one was so huge was really dismaying to me Helen talk me off the ledge please honestly I don't know that I can I thought I was going to be the you know negative one and then James came in with even bigger boots.

1:15:45I freely admit I am not a hardcore Mario fan. I have been in the room while people have played it. I myself am not a gamer, right? So even the little nostalgia buzz, I recognize that those are little musical cues from the games, but I don't have any particular emotional connection to that. So I wasn't even getting those tiny little serotonin bumps, you know? I was just sitting there just going, why? What is, why is this? There are so many bits in this film where they will just stop and look at something or stop and strike a pose. And again, the poses may well be from games or covers of games or something.

1:16:24But like there was just, there's all these sort of pauses that I guess you're meant to feel something, but you don't feel anything. And I really cannot stress enough that this is not funny. No, at all. There's nothing in this movie, even as good as Peaches, the song in the first movie, there's nothing as weird or as human as that. It's just there on the screen. And look, you're going to have to take your kids to see it because they're going to want to go see it. If you have kids, I know my small niece and nephew are going to be going to see it because they're excited about it.

1:16:58Chris Hewitt:No, just lie to them. Tell them Hopper is a Super Mario Galaxy movie and take them to see Hopper's instead. Or better still, Scream 7. I mean, Project Hail Mary is almost okay for small children. Yeah, almost. Almost, you know? It feels like they just thought, what is the absolute bare minimum we can do to hoover up all the money connected to this IP? And that's the film. Yeah. I don't know why... Like, Nintendo seem to be... They've always been very careful about protecting their IP, certainly from anybody trying to, you know, rip off their copyright. I don't know why they would sign off on this either because I don't see how it helps people love Super Mario anymore.

1:17:44It has a stacked cast as well. Presumably they're all fans. But like you can't, if we hadn't told you that that was Donald Glover and Benny Safdie, you'd have no idea. I would challenge you to recognize who was who. I genuinely think, I don't think you can tell And I'm not sure of the point of celebrity stunt casting, if you're then processing their voices to sound more like the video games, I guess, or something. Why? What are you allowing them to bring to the table? Donald Glover is an incredibly charismatic, musically gifted, acting gifted person. What have you allowed him to bring to Yoshi here?

1:18:24I genuinely could not answer that.

1:18:27Chris Hewitt:Use the Stanislavski method. you know and look if this funds like 16 art projects that he has going on God bless him but I don't I don't know what I don't know even what's in it for the studio what are we doing here anyway we're reviewing films and we're giving this one two stars yeah I thought I'd flirted with one yeah it's one of these it's probably a two you want to give it a one just to be punitive because it's so cynical and so infuriating but it probably scratched you it probably scrapped you for the simple reason that depressingly young kids are probably just going to lap this up and have a really good time oh dearie me two stars then for some that's a more depressing review than I expected two stars then for the Super Mario Galaxy movie last but not least this week Hell's Bells we have an original movie woohoo it can be done I mean we did also have fuse and the drama.

1:19:29Chris Hewitt:Oh, we've had three original movies. And this one is called Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice. Correct. It's on Disney Plus right now. Tell us about it. Helen O 'Hara. So this is directed by Ben David Grabinski, who worked on Coyote vs. Acme, which we sadly still haven't seen here. among other things obviously but this is a time travel gangster comedy I guess is the best way to sum it up so yeah so Mike is a disillusioned hitman whose best friend is Nick Mike is played by James Marsden Nick is Vince Vaughn and Mike is also having an affair with Nick's wife Alice he's stooping he's stooping isaac gonzalez yes um and then other nick from the future comes back to tell them that basically things are afoot and essentially it becomes clear that mike is maybe gonna die tonight and nick's future nick well yes both nicks are gonna have to try and keep him alive says future nick Future Nick.

1:20:49Chris Hewitt:And then present Nick is not meant to be a part of this. No. But he comes into it and complications and all sorts of stuff. And so it's about both Nick's and Alice and Mike trying to keep Mike alive. Yes. And it has, I mean, the title is kind of the movie. Like it is very much about these four people. You also do have good supporting roles, little sort of comedy supporting roles for like Keith David, Jimmy Tatro, Stephen Root, all these people turn up. Ben Schwartz Ben Schwartz Tiny little roles for like Arturo Castro and Louis Tan who are sort of to the upcoming like you know comedy guys you see in stuff who are good in stuff you know I just had a really nice time with this I think the less we tell you about the plot the better and the shifting kind of dynamics between these three people who all have very complicated feelings for one another they all love each other very much but also maybe have cause for some anger with each other at times I think is great.

1:21:51I just really liked how weird and different and unexpected it was and I had a lovely time.

1:21:56Chris Hewitt:Yeah, yeah, very much so. I echo that entirely. This is, you know, there's lots of different bits of movies floating around in here but they are fused with an S together winningly, I would say, by Grabinski. There's one little weird stylistic choice he makes where he has kind of very blurry slow-mo going on in quite a lot of the action scenes, which is a slightly odd choice that took me out of some of the action scenes. But otherwise, they're staged really, really well and shot very inventively. And that chief quartet, if you will, of James Marston and Isaac Gonzalez and Vince Vaughn and Vince Vaughn are just having an absolute blast.

1:22:37Chris Hewitt:And the scenes with Vaughn and Vaughn are unexpected and even touching in ways that I think you won't expect. Yeah, this is really good. I really enjoyed it. It's one of those little movies that sneaks on to Disney +, with very little fanfare, despite having a pretty starry cast. And reminded me a little bit, although I didn't flip for it as much as I flipped for last year's Eeny Meeny. But I did really, really like this one. So check it out, Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice, if you have a Disney Plus subscription, or if you're listening to this in the United States of America, hello, thank you for joining us across the Atlantic.

1:23:17Chris Hewitt:Hulu. Hulu is the place that you can watch this movie and there are lots of surprises. Wouldn't mind doing a spoiler special on this one, but we shall see how that one goes. I don't think we've got an Empire Review yet. Not yet. I think it's like high three, low four for me somewhere in there. Yeah, I would say that. High three, low four. A good time will be had by all is what I'm saying about Mike and Nick and Nick and Alice. And on that note, that is it for this week's Empire Podcast. Join us next week for more film-related fun when we'll be joined by James McAvoy, who is stepping into the director's chair for the first time with California Schemen.

1:24:02Chris Hewitt:And he came into the studio and we had a good old natter about that and a great many things. So that was exciting. Very exciting indeed. But until then, until we meet again, until that auspicious occasion, it is goodbye from my two colleagues of such lethal cunning. Goodbye, James. Bye, Chris. Yeah, goodbye. Goodbye to you, Helen O 'Hara. Toodaloo. Toodaloo. And it is goodbye from me. I am off to fulfill the ancient prophecy to make something happen that I promised would happen at the beginning of the episode. They said it couldn't be done, but it shall be done. James, Helen, hug hug they're not moving hug don't touch me hug never touch me you just keep saying it I'm trying to move you with the force it turns out the force doesn't exist oh fuck it thanks for listening see you next time bye