In short
Empire Magazine’s “Shameless Plug #6” focuses on Avatar: Fire and Ash cover story plus other issue highlights. Nick de Semlyen and Chris Hewitt discuss Nick’s two-day, behind-the-scenes shadowing of director James Cameron in Wellington at Park Road Post, including post-production VFX reviews and Cameron’s virtual camera “Brain Bar” rig.
Key claims
Cameron is unusually forensic in VFX feedback (e.g., helicopter movement, machine-gun strafing timing) and the film’s scale involves about 2,500 VFX shots; the trailer music problem was resolved between Monday and Tuesday.
Notable examples
Cameron demoing virtual camera moves (he can “turn himself into a helicopter” and do ultra close-ups); VFX review sessions with Weta and ILM; cover choice of villain Farang.
Guests
Nick de Semlyen (Empire editor) and Chris Hewitt (host). Featured interviewees mentioned: James Cameron; co-writers of Avatar; Una Chaplin; Sam Worthington; John Landau’s son Jamie Landau; Sam Toy; Peter Jackson; Glenn Powell; Jordan Peele; Justin Tipping; Tyrae Gwethers; Marlon Wayans; David Johnson; Colin Farrell; Margot Robbie; Kogonada; Jeremy Renner; Joe Carnahan; Jason Patrick; Lloyd Kaufman; Macon Blair; Peter Dinklage; Kevin Bacon; Dan Jolin; Robert Altman’s son Stephen.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOPress Day Excitement
0:15 to 1:24
Hosts discuss their press day experiences and the issue at hand.
“Forensic, mind-numbing detail, delete as applicable.”
Avatar: Fire and Ash Cover Story
1:24 to 2:14
Introduction to the main topic focusing on the cover story about Avatar.
“This shirt is made for podcast discussion.”
Two Days with James Cameron
2:14 to 3:23
Nick shares his experience shadowing James Cameron in New Zealand.
“I mean, I did kind of play the editor card this month, I've got to say.”
Access to Avatar Production
3:23 to 4:34
Nick discusses the unique access he had during the Avatar production process.
“That was the very first story back in December.”
Insights on VFX Reviews
4:34 to 6:39
Nick describes participating in VFX reviews with James Cameron.
“And they're incredible just sitting there.”
The Innovation of Virtual Camera
6:39 to 8:20
Nick explains the virtual camera technology used by James Cameron.
“He had a scene that had already been shot.”
The Detail of Film Making
8:20 to 10:17
Discussion on the meticulous details in film production, particularly by Cameron.
“Did you shake hands and walk off at the distance?”
Decisions on Cover Features
10:17 to 11:49
Hosts discuss the decision-making process for cover features in the magazine.
“Obviously, difficult to get all that stuff in and a lot of it is technical, but we are going to put a lot of that online near a release.”
Future of Avatar and Box Office Competition
11:49 to 13:19
Discussion on the anticipated success of Avatar and its competition in the box office.
“It's interesting because we kind of made that decision before we'd seen even what she looked like, and I'd only kind of had James Cameron talk about her in interviews.”
Listener Questions and Wrap-up
13:19 to 14:01
Hosts tease a future episode for listener questions and wrap up the discussion.
“But they're just releasing it now in America and a bunch of other places.”
Show all 20 chapters
Listener Questions Special Announcement
14:01 to 14:21
The hosts discuss plans for a special listener questions episode.
“We will do a listener question special, Nick.”
Nick's Experience With James Cameron
14:22 to 15:27
Nick shares his incredible experience hanging out with James Cameron in New Zealand.
“It's not all about Nick's incredible two-day journey down to New Zealand to hang out with James Cameron.”
New Features in This Issue
15:28 to 17:04
The hosts introduce new features in the magazine including interviews and themes.
“I won't say what mine was maybe I'll say it on another show but it was an interesting one I also got to meet Richard Taylor Richard Taylor?”
Spinal Tap 2 and Its Joyous Return
17:05 to 21:39
Discussion on the excitement surrounding Spinal Tap 2 and its unique interviews.
“There's a lot of great stuff beside the issue.”
The Toxic Avenger Reimagined
21:40 to 23:06
Exploration of the new Toxic Avenger film and its background.
“Nick, Toxic Avenger is the feature, but not the old Toxic Avenger, not the trauma movie.”
Interview with Rising Star David Johnson
23:07 to 27:20
Insights from Eleni Jones's interview with rising star David Johnson.
“gives some interesting insights into some of his his gruey masterpieces, including hashtag Shakespeare shitstorm and Citizen Toxie, colon, the Toxic Avenger 4.”
Exploring Robert Altman's Popeye
27:21 to 30:00
The hosts discuss the peculiarities of Robert Altman's film Popeye and its place in film history.
“And he does that smile on the very same page.”
Discussion of Film Highlights and Interviews
30:00 to 34:50
Hear insights from various film sections, including interviews and previews.
“especially since one of them is my section, Final Cut, the best section.”
Jeremy Renner's Resilience and Interview
34:50 to 37:20
Discover Jeremy Renner's journey and insights shared during his interview.
“One is I got to spend some time with Jeremy Renner, who has a book out called My Next Breath, which details not his career.”
Closing Thoughts and Listener Engagement
37:20 to 42:00
Wrap-up discussion with listener engagement and upcoming segments.
“Arguably worth the price of the issue itself.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:14Chris Hewitt:Hello pod, I'm Chris Hewitt and welcome to the latest episode of the Shameless Plug, the show in which I sit down each month with the editor of Empire, Nick de Semlyen, to go through that month's issue in... What would you say, Nick? Forensic, mind-numbing detail, delete as applicable. Vague, waffly, vaporous. Approximate detail. Approximate detail. Very excited. Hello, Nick, how are you? Hey, Chris. I'm very good. Happy to be here. It's press day. It's always press day when we do these things. It's press day. Perfect time to sit and chat. How are your press day stress levels?
0:52Nick de Semlyen:Pretty fairly low level, I would say. We're okay. It's a banger of an issue, I've got to say. and it's under control. You do have to say that now. Yeah, it's not on fire. Things are not on fire, unlike our fire and ash issue.
1:05Chris Hewitt:Hello. Hello. It's exciting. Fingers crossed. We'll be talking about that issue in the next Shameless Plug, right? Or are we two issues yet? I'm so confused about where our press days are. Anyway, let's talk about the one that is on sale right now. We're two weeks into the life cycle on shelves, digital and otherwise good and evil news agents all that jazz and on the cover is something we hinted at heavily in last month's shameless plug which is Avatar Fire and Ash a true world exclusive story on the cover of Empire Magazine this month written by none other than the man sitting across from me wearing a lovely shirt he got from Reese and I'm waiting to come down to sale so I can buy one and we can turn up at the office, we're in the exact same shirt.
1:57Chris Hewitt:It is Nick DeSimlion. Hey, Chris. This shirt is made for podcast discussion. It is such a nice shirt. Basically, I've realized why I like it so much. It's like a Fantastic Four shirt without having any. Oh, yeah, yeah, it is a little bit. It's got that sort of blue and white vibe going on. Let's not plug my shirt. It's a very nice shirt. Sorry.
2:17Nick de Semlyen:It's a lovely shirt. But, yeah, let's talk about Avatar. I mean, I did kind of play the editor card this month, I've got to say. I took there was a trip to New Zealand and I took it a trip to New Zealand and and you bloody well took it it was a very long way and it was worthwhile because you flew to New Zealand and you spent two days with James Cameron two days with Big Jim so I previously big to his house when he lived in Malibu in 2018 has he ever been to your house? not that I know of not that I know of he did have a virtual simulation of it there that was a bit odd yeah But no, he's always good value.
2:56Nick de Semlyen:And yeah, this is part of our path to Pandora, doing something on Avatar every single month this year, up to the release of Fire and Ash in December. And yeah, we were kind of like, because we've been doing something every single month, we were wondering, like, what can we do for the cover story? Because we've already done so much. I mean, once you've done mixed course beat, there's nowhere to go. Well, we haven't done him yet. Oh, that's exciting. That we know of. That is exciting. But yes, we'd spoken to James Cameron twice already, once solo. That was the very first story back in December. And then we talked to him and his two co-writers for the film.
3:30Nick de Semlyen:So we thought, how can we push the boat out? Yeah. And the answer was two days shadowing him.
3:37Chris Hewitt:Well, I love that you arrived with that. The answer was two days because this was your idea, wasn't it? Yeah. So why don't you ask for two days with James Cameron? and this is something that you must have thought that they were going to say no what are you doing you idiot we're making one of the most expensive movies ever made go away
3:55Nick de Semlyen:he's always been very open we've never done anything like this with him but he's been very open and had kind of previously said yes to stuff so I hoped that he would say yes but we had kind of floated it as one or two days and I definitely didn't expect it to come back as yes you have two days because that's just amazing and it was incredible It's like the perfect way to kind of, yeah, like one up what we've done already. But I think it was just the perfect timing because he talked to me out there about the first two Avatar films. He wanted to kind of let them speak for themselves and kind of keep it all a mystery, how he makes these films.
4:30Nick de Semlyen:And with this one, he wants to pull back the curtain. He decided he wants to share how they're made. And they're incredible just sitting there. My head was spinning for 48 hours. How did this get made? Pretty much, yeah. And so, yeah, it was kind of lucky timing. But yeah, and it was incredibly unfiltered as well. It was amazing. It was like almost immediately, it sort of started off, I watched about 25 minutes of the film, in the same room where we once reunited the cast of Bad Taste, including Peter Jackson. I think that was in like 2014. We had given Peter Jackson a chainsaw in that same room.
5:05Nick de Semlyen:So it was quite surreal being back there. That's amazing. And we did that photo shoot. So yeah, so I watched a chunk of the film and then straight away literally followed him. And he's quite hard to keep up with. He walks very fast down this corridor and into a room where the trailer was being locked. And immediately there was a problem. He didn't like the music. And he was very frank about his thoughts on the music. And I put some of that in the piece. But it was incredible. It was really like kind of being there by his side as he's problem solving. And this was a full two days, right? This is like you went home with him and you stayed in the same house as him.
5:41Chris Hewitt:Luckily, I didn't have to get up at the same time.
5:43Nick de Semlyen:I did find out that he gets up at like 4.35 a.m. and kickboxes and does Thai martial arts every morning. Kickboxes with Stephen Lang when they're filming. But he had even done that during press production the day I was there. So I was relieved not to have to partake of that. This is more of it.
6:04Chris Hewitt:by him. But this is more of a nine-to-five thing where you would turn up at, where was the, don't give the address, obviously, but I'm sure people, this is Wellington, right? Yeah, this is Wellington. This is Wellington. Park Road Post. Park Road Post. Which is where they're hunkered down. I'm assuming it's on Park Road. I think it, yeah, you might. Don't give the address away, but it's Park Road Post. Sherlock Hewitt.
6:22Nick de Semlyen:Yes. I'll have to do some research, but you might be right. And I think Peter, I believe Peter Jackson owns that and then went across to Stone Street where I got to be. Where's that? Yeah. Really imagine it with their names in New Zealand. Yeah, maybe it's misleading. Anyway, he did a demo for me of the virtual camera setup that he has, which was pretty insane. He had a scene that had already been shot. So you see all the Avatar characters, but then he's holding this virtual camera rig, and he can do anything with it. He's got these guys called the Brain Bar, and he shouts out like a ratio, a number, and then he can turn himself into a helicopter and do a long shot down, looking down, or he can do an ultra close-up.
7:04Nick de Semlyen:He can make it look handheld, but he has a certain way of walking, so he makes the camera feel hard. So he gets in there and he can shoot it any number of ways that he wants and then go with the final one.
7:14Chris Hewitt:But the film is pretty much done, right? So you weren't actually seeing actors on the volume. That stuff was done a long time ago.
7:21Nick de Semlyen:This was all post-production stuff. This is all post-production. But he can go out there and essentially reshoot. He shoots these films twice, so he does it once with the actors, probably more than twice, but with the actors and then now in post-production he can do anything he likes, basically. He has all the scenes, he can go inside them, he can shoot them from whatever angle he wants. So it's quite mind-blowing. And he was showing me kind of an illustration of how different directors would have shot the scene, so he did like a Ridley Scott one with a lens. I tried to shoot the UV ball version.
7:52Nick de Semlyen:I did get to hold this camera and it was terrifying. So I'm like, James Cameron's standing there and I'm like, I don't want to drop his camera. And I just look like an idiot. I didn't know what it's pretty amazing it's like a big Xbox controller and he's just designed it and built it and the whole thing was nuts I gotta say check out the big brain on Jim but yeah two days with him
8:11Chris Hewitt:that's amazing I think I did an hour and a half of them last year for the Terminator for that cover feature and he's just incredible the most interesting
8:21Nick de Semlyen:bit of it was the VFX reviews so I got to sit in for like maybe four or five hours of VFX reviews and he had a guy from Weta and a guy from ILM in two different offices and he goes in and they show him the latest version of a vfx shot and his feedback is so forensic i mean even more forensic than this podcast yeah whether it's like uh machine gunfire like strafing across and he would be no no that needs to dip at a certain point or it's the way that a helicopter moves and he's just said i fly helicopters i know this shit at one point and it's just every single like the most tiny tiny element of a shot he'll zero in on and then talk And it's really like getting a science seminar.
9:01Nick de Semlyen:It's incredible. His brain is quite unbelievable. So yeah, that was wild. The whole thing.
9:07Chris Hewitt:Wow, amazing. So how did you leave it? Did you shake hands and walk off at the distance? Or were you flying a great Lear Noctrix? I accidentally locked myself in a cupboard.
9:18Nick de Semlyen:No, I managed to leave with some dignity. It worked out quite well because the Monday morning there was that problem with the trailer music. and then I left on Tuesday afternoon and they had just nailed the music and if you've seen the trailer, the music's pretty damn good. So that was kind of the challenge that was going on there. But there's so many things going on and he's looking at all these shots completely out of order and there's something like 2 ,500 VFX shots in this film. And so, yeah, I've got to see quite a few of them. I have no idea what the plot is still because they were all out of order and I don't know, you know, they're all kind of disconnected.
9:51Nick de Semlyen:But it's a pretty huge film. I don't think that's a spoiler. The scale of it is pretty bonkers. But it's just really kind of cemented that even though it's such a vast canvas these films are being made on, every detail is agonized over and precise.
10:08Chris Hewitt:And it's a pretty huge feature as well. I think it's probably bigger than most cover features, longer certainly. It starts off, James Cameron's ears are burning. So that's your opening line. and you know how did you decide because you could have done the entire feature section with this you had so much access you had so much Jim Cameron and you spoke to everyone else you spoke to Sam Wortham to Nuna Chaplin John Landau's son John Landau's past of course who's now producer Jamie Landau you spoke to loads and loads of people who were involved with the movie you could have done a 30 ,000 word piece you did what in the end 5 ,000 something like that
10:47Nick de Semlyen:yeah something like that yeah I mean it could have been a lot bigger for sure. I mean, I did a two-hour James, I mean, again, he gave me a two-hour masterclass where we just sat down and he went through clips of stuff and behind-the-scenes stuff and he gave me what he said at the time was the most detailed talk through of how they make these films that anyone's had. So, I mean, that was incredible. Obviously, difficult to get all that stuff in and a lot of it is technical, but we are going to put a lot of that online near a release. I think the feeling was that because we're doing Avatar every month we don't want to overwhelm an issue with Abitroth stuff so it's 14 pages which is almost double the size of a regular one but yeah 14 we didn't want to make the whole issue blue but hopefully it's still a great substantial read and there'll definitely be more stuff to come if you enjoyed that
11:35Chris Hewitt:yeah if you can't get out of it get into it get into it did you interview Pyke, Han? no
11:41Nick de Semlyen:he was being difficult it's too painful his publicist is a squid it is too painful I've did talk to Una Chaplin it's the first interview with Una Chaplin the best chaplain arguably the best chaplain who was absolutely lovely I don't think it's arguable and she was in Switzerland sitting in a park when I spoke to her there you go that was lovely and she's really really nice and I think it was her first interview anywhere on the film and Varang is kind of very much the the big kind of element of this film that they are front loading in all the marketing and she's on our cover obviously and I think she's going to be pretty amazing character
12:16Chris Hewitt:Yeah, Farang is the cover star, not Nate Thierry, not Jake Zooli. I see you, Nick DeSemlian. Why did we go with Farang on the cover?
12:28Nick de Semlyen:It's interesting because we kind of made that decision before we'd seen even what she looked like, and I'd only kind of had James Cameron talk about her in interviews. But I think the new element of the film is kind of, you know, you want something that looks familiar but is new. And I think, you know, as the big kind of villainous new character, she just seemed the obvious one. But that very much kind of came from us. And yeah, we looked at a whole bunch of different art and just loved this image.
12:56Chris Hewitt:It is a striking image from a film that I am sure is going to be very, very striking indeed. Almost certainly going to be the biggest film of the year. Certainly biggest American film, because there is a Chinese film called Nisa 2, which at the moment is top of the box office pops this year with 1.9 billion worldwide. Most of that domestically, as in they're domestically, as in China. But they're just releasing it now in America and a bunch of other places.
13:25Nick de Semlyen:Not here, which is a shame because I would go see it. But yeah, it's pretty huge. But it is Will Payakan take it down? We shall see. We shall see.
13:37Chris Hewitt:Will nobody too take it down? We shall see. It could happen. All right. So we don't have a lot of time because of the aforementioned press day and Nick has to run off to a meeting. So I did say last time, and in fact, I put out a shout out on Twitter and Blue Sky for people's questions. We were going to make this a listener question special. I don't think we have time for that, but we will do. I've just literally made this decision in the last 35 seconds. We will do a listener question special, Nick. So we'll do a... Bring it on. Yeah. So we'll come in maybe next week and we'll sit down and we'll do a shameless plug listener questions special.
14:11How does that sound? Can I ask the listeners questions? Guys, I need help, please. Seriously, there's some good questions in there. Good. Yeah, let's do that. Yeah.
14:20Chris Hewitt:So let's move on. Let's move on and race through the issue as best as we can. It's not all Avatar. It's not all about Nick's incredible two-day journey down to New Zealand to hang out with James Cameron. Is that the best access you've ever had personally? have you had more time with a director or on a production
14:41Nick de Semlyen:I mean just in terms of a film Skull Island was hard to beat that was one where I got to go to Vietnam, Hawaii and Australia you forgot Australia is disgraceful and I saw Sam Toy formerly of Empire while I was out there because he was doing Mo Capricorn they were like he's too angry tone it down a bit guys so yeah that was that was pretty nuts I mean in terms of and during that I spoke to Tom Hiddleston the lovely Tom Hiddleston many times but yeah I think for a director this was this was pretty unbeatable and yeah anyway we've talked enough we've talked enough about that but it was it was it was pretty cool that's pretty cool
15:29Chris Hewitt:I won't say what mine was maybe I'll say it on another show but it was an interesting one I also got to meet Richard Taylor Richard Taylor? you got to meet Richard Taylor was he holding a massive big year show? he had something which I'm not allowed to talk about
15:43Nick de Semlyen:I saw something in his basement this is going to sound much more sinister it wasn't sinister but he had something very cool that he demoed that I can't talk about but maybe soon we can talk about it you've said too much I'll have to have you killed
15:58Chris Hewitt:also in the features section we have all sorts of goodies. My word, do we have goodies. We have a feature on him, which is, sounds like a Michael Bluth. Like a Michael Bluth. Him? What's him? Him, and why do we have a feature on it? Much like the opening of The Last Boy Scout,
Read the full transcript
16:20Nick de Semlyen:it combines American football and horror. Jordan Peele produces it. And Justin Tipping directs it. Yes, the tipping point. Yeah, well, we'll see. Yet to be seen. But it looks really kind of cool and creepy. Our headline for it is Bad Sports. And it's basically a psychological horror, crazy thing set in the world of American football. Oh, that's exciting. Yeah, we talked to Jordan Peele. We talked to the actors. Tyrae Gwethers and Marlon Wayans. Yeah, yeah. About how this film came to be. Justin Tipping has background in American football himself. And yeah, it's a good read. It looks freaky. There's a shot that we have of a sort of strange goat creature.
17:07Chris Hewitt:Yeah.
17:08Nick de Semlyen:Which intrigues me. There's a lot of cool stuff.
17:10Chris Hewitt:There's a lot of great stuff beside the issue. That is very, very good. All right, I've got to do the opening sentence. I've made this commitment. The feature was written by Amon Warman. Amon's opening sentence is, How much are you willing to sacrifice to be great? How much are you willing to sacrifice to be great, Chris? None. I don't have much to sacrifice. if I'm completely honest. But if you're interested in making a Faustian pact, then please do get in touch with me. You know his address. He's open to infernal offers. ChrisDeboraMagazine.com I will sell myself a surprisingly little. I mean, just a set of new Callaway clubs, I think, and maybe a season ticket to Liverpool.
17:49Chris Hewitt:I don't know. I would sell myself
17:50Nick de Semlyen:for a cup of coffee at this point in press day.
17:52Chris Hewitt:Oh, a Shure SM7 podcast microphone. Those things are... Yeah, very good. They sell us. That is a good feature. This is a great feature. The next feature is great. This next feature is great. The headline is back for Elevances, and it is a feature about Spinal Tap 2. The end continues. I hope the rest of the film has jokes as good as the title. And this is the return of Spinal Tap to the big screen. All of them. All of them back. Chris Gass, Michael McKean, who I can't decide whether he's Michael McKean or Michael McKean because I saw an interview with Ray Shehorn last week where she said McKean, but I've also heard of McKean.
18:31Chris Hewitt:Anyway, Harry Shearer, Rob Reiner, they're all back. Marty DeBerge is back and they've made another, if you will, mockumentary. And Alex, Jesus Christ, this is a hell of a thing.
18:43Nick de Semlyen:More exciting even than the fact they're back with a new film is the fact that we managed to, Alex managed to wrangle them all together. The members of the band, not the actors who claim that they are the band members, but the actual Nigel Tufnell, David St. Hubbins and Derek Smalls plus Marty DeBerge the director of Kramer vs. Kramer vs. Godzilla and other works and this is a joyous this is a thing of joy that Alex says this is a joyous thing of joy just just madness just glorious glorious nonsense and at one point they accuse Alex of being a muckraker but as one of them says somebody's got to rake the muck.
19:29Nick de Semlyen:It's just tortured analogies. It's just spinal tap glorious gobbledygook. I loved reading this. It's a miracle that this exists. I'm so happy.
19:40Chris Hewitt:This was a one hour conversation between Alex and the four guys who were all on Zoom. With the cameras off. Just the voices. To maintain the illusion. What illusion? Of course, yes, you're right. This is incredible. I mean, you, Nick, you have interviewed comedians in character before. It's a very disconcerting thing.
20:03Nick de Semlyen:Yeah, we did Gough Marenghi. We did the Gough Marenghi guys.
20:07Chris Hewitt:Yeah, you did Richard Iowady and Matt Holness in character. And they were in costume. In character and costume as Dean Lerner and Garth Marenghi. And they didn't break once. They were just saying some of the funniest shit you will ever hear. Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah. I haven't, I don't think I've had that experience.
20:25Nick de Semlyen:Yeah, it's joyous. And I mean, these guys are like, it was so just, well, read the article because it's just great. I mean, it's so funny. It's all off the top of their heads and they're just riffing with each other. And it's so dumb and so funny. I loved it. So, yeah, if you love Spinal Tap, if you haven't seen Spinal Tap, it's getting re-released. Is it? Go see it. For the 41st anniversary. On the smallest screen possible. It's an amazing film. And one of my favorite DVD extras of all time is the commentary on the DVD, where it's, again, like them doing commentary. Even over the menu screen, they go play.
21:06Nick de Semlyen:They're going through all the things on the menu screen. They go play. We haven't brought our guitars. Scene selection. From which movie? They're getting more and more confused. And then they do a great commentary and character where they're accusing Marty DeBerge of having a false beard. But this feels like a sequel to that, and it's so funny. I loved it. Can't say enough good about it. Alex's first line,
21:28Chris Hewitt:before it's a Q &A piece, but he writes a little intro. When we first met them, Spinal Tap was suffering implosion, and in the case of one of their drummers, explosion. That's good. That's good. Laying waste is the headline. Nick, Toxic Avenger is the feature, but not the old Toxic Avenger, not the trauma movie. This is the new one, directed by Macon Blair, and starring Peter Dinklage. Yes. We've called Fool Slime Lords.
21:54Nick de Semlyen:Yeah.
21:54Chris Hewitt:This fool's been on the shelf for a while, hasn't it?
21:56Nick de Semlyen:Very slimy headline treatment. I've got to say, props to our design guys for that because it looks authentically gross. They slimed it. It looks brilliant. Yeah, this is the, I think, quite delayed. I think this was shot a while ago, right? Three or four years. Yeah. It's Peter Dinklage. They didn't think this movie was going to be released. It's a light one. It is. It's Kevin Bacon. And Dan Jolin has done a... Dan Jolin's in it as well. Dan Jolin is not the Toxic Avenger. I mean, in many ways he is. No matter what you hear. That's not true. But yeah, he's gone straight to the source. And this piece is great.
22:30Nick de Semlyen:Super interesting. Very strange film. I'm not massively a trauma guy myself, but I'm intrigued to check this out. Have you seen the original?
22:37Chris Hewitt:Many, many moons ago. Yeah. I wasn't taken by it, if I'm completely honest. But this has got actual production values, and Megyn Blair has got this weird skewed sensibility that is exciting and interesting. and, you know, at the very least, it's going to be a curious oddity, I would say. So, you know, I'm glad it's not lingering on the shelf like a number of other films I could name. It's been unleashed. It's laying waste.
23:03Nick de Semlyen:And there's a really fun sidebar titled True Tromance where Lloyd Kaufman, the one and only Lloyd Kaufman, gives some interesting insights into some of his his gruey masterpieces, including hashtag Shakespeare shitstorm and Citizen Toxie, colon, the Toxic Avenger 4. And it's short but sweet. That may be the best get
23:26Chris Hewitt:in this issue and you spend two days with James Cameron. Dan's opening line, a gang of cackling miscreants tear down the street in a car. Right away, you got them by the Jaffers. Right away, you got them by the rig Jaffers. There's a street. Tell me more. Yeah, I mean, so exciting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Next feature, I'm sorry we're racing through this, but I want to get to Beth's section. John's section and my section, the best section. Open up is the headline. The film is a big, bold, beautiful journey. Colin Farrell, Margot Robbie, Coco Nadal, the director. Ianna Murray writes. Nick speaks. Do I?
24:05Chris Hewitt:Yeah.
24:06Nick de Semlyen:Yeah, no, this looks interesting. It's got magical portals. It's got Margot Robbie doing, I think, her first role since Barbie. Yes, I believe it is. And so, yeah, we talked to her, to Colin Farrell. That's a great pairing. Lovely pairing. Lovely pairing. And Koganada, who is really, he did after Yang, right? He did. Yeah, and he's a really interesting kind of up-and-coming director. This is his biggest movie yet. And Ayanna Murray does a really nice job of explaining where this film came from. And it kind of, during pandemic, I believe Koganada kind of started watching a lot of anime and especially some Miyazaki stuff.
24:45Nick de Semlyen:and the film kind of came out of that. Almost like a live-action Miyazaki. Yeah, it's almost like a live-action Miyazaki. So I'm excited and it's got lots of magical portals and stuff like that.
24:54Chris Hewitt:That's amazing. I'm up for it. Ayanna Murray's opening line, Like everyone else, Kokunada had been stuck indoors. There you go. I think that voice enhances people's opening lines. I don't know about you. Next up, You'd be delighted to know I didn't write a single feature of this issue. Nick, why was that? Yeah. Why was that, Nick? We mistook you for the Toxic Avenger? I don't know. I don't know, Chris. There must have been a good reason. I mean, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I wouldn't give me the writer feature to be able to see it there. So, there you go. Anyway, here is a cracking interview with one of my favorite British actors.
25:35Chris Hewitt:And it is a Q &A with David Johnson, the star of Rye Lane and Alien Romulus, and the winner of the EE Rising Star Award at this year's BAFTAs. And he is on the way up. He's in the Long Walk, the Stephen King adaptation, which is coming out in September. Very good. And this is Eleni Jones who interviewed him.
25:56Nick de Semlyen:So this is a digital cover as well. Usually when we do a big shoot and a big interview, Q &A interview like this, we do somebody who's very established with a big body of work behind them. But sometimes there's someone who is up and coming, who is so exciting that we're all just kind of like, we need to do this person. And David Johnson, very much that guy. I mean, everything he's done has been really interesting and also really varied. You know, Rylean is so different from what he did in Alien Romulus. I thought he was the best thing about Romulus. And yeah, he's got The Long Walk coming up. He's doing a film with Frank Ocean, or is he?
26:31Nick de Semlyen:Or is he? And yeah, he's just super interesting guy. And it's a great interview that Ellen did with him. He gets very, you know, he kind of talks about being an introvert and, and how he sees life and, you know, I love him in industry as well. And his character in that is so different to, to all the others. So he, yeah, we did a, we did a great shoot with him here in London and he was really up for it. And if you see the opening image, he just got up on a big steel garter and hung off it. And fortunately didn't explode or anything, but no the shoot is amazing as well I gotta say it's really really cool and relaxed but kind of really has his spirit yeah
27:18Chris Hewitt:so yeah it's terrific alright Ellen's opening sentence there's a specific smile that David Johnson has in his repertoire head slightly bowed eyes looking upwards mouth lopsided at the corners I'm gonna just put it out there I don't think that voice helps anything I think it enhances I think I should do the entire magazine in the audio book. I think I should do it in that voice. I love that opening line.
27:47Nick de Semlyen:I think it's spot on. It's a spot on opening line. And he does that smile on the very same page.
27:53Chris Hewitt:What? It's his smile. Who else's smile is he going to do? Last feature is one of our deep dives, and it is into Robert Altman's Popeye, which if you've never seen it, I'm not sure I would recommend you do, but it's certainly interesting. It's a curious oddity, right? As I just described, a toxic offender. And this is the movie he made, the pop-out adaptation he made with Robin Williams and Shelley DeValle back in what, 1980? I think it was.
28:21Nick de Semlyen:Yeah.
28:22Chris Hewitt:And this was a famous disaster. This one.
28:27Nick de Semlyen:Yeah, I mean, this was such a fun thing. Jamie Graeme brought this one to us and pitched it and he is an enthusiast of this film. I think it's fair to say. I mean, even though it's not a classic, it's certainly interesting. I think Ben Travis is also very interested in Popeye. Specifically, the sets are still up in Malta. They've just left some of the sets there and they've become like a big tourist attraction. And I know Ben is interested in that and wants to visit them at some point. Interesting. We've talked about it. But yeah, Jamie brought this idea to us and he did a great job of tracking down people to talk about this film.
29:02Nick de Semlyen:He's talked to Robert Altman's son, Stephen. if you talked to Robert Altman I would have been very impressed yeah that would be a coup he talked to a couple of the crew and I believe he talked to the guy who designed the Popeye's biceps so Robin Williams put on these weird sort of fake arms big and muscly and we spoke to that guy so that's a deep dive the stories are amazing and it was a famously cocaine ridden set Yes.
29:34Chris Hewitt:Sadly, none of the principles are still with us. But yeah, it is a cracking, cracking feature. Big old deep dive into that. Opening line, Robert Altman is battling an unruly octopus. Are there any ruly octopuses or octopi? I don't know. I've never really heard of a ruly octopus. Just a very tidy octopus.
29:53Nick de Semlyen:The one in My Octopus Teacher was quite well behaved.
29:57Chris Hewitt:All right. Sadly, we are running out of time. And I don't want to diminish the other sections, especially since one of them is my section, Final Cut, the best section. But we should probably pick out highlights, I'd say, from those sections rather than go through them page by page as we have previously. So Nick, let's go to Beth Webb's section, which is at the front of the magazine. It is First Word. It is the News section. Let's pick three things from it that you think people will gravitate towards. What do you like? Nick is frantically turning the pages.
30:30Nick de Semlyen:let's talk about you let's talk about running man you spoke to Glenn Powell I did and we have a shot of him running man so what was Glenn Powell like that's how we opened the first word section
30:46Chris Hewitt:he's very very lovely I've had occasion to speak to him a number of times recently make of that what you will and yeah he is very very sharp he is a man who I think is really really refreshing because he is a man who I remember speaking to him for Top Gun Maverick and he was talking about how he wanted to be Tom Cruise when he grew up essentially and he wants Tom Cruise's career and he's not ashamed of saying he wants to be a giant massive movie star because that doesn't happen a lot these days you don't get people who will nakedly express their ambitions but that said as well he is so smart so sharp about making it happen and it's sharp in the choices that he makes and the things he turns down turn down Jurassic World Rebirth which I think would have been a Jonathan Bailey role and that's a smart decision I think he would you know I don't think anyone's coming out of that movie raving about Jonathan Bailey's performance and that's all due respect to Jonathan Bailey but maybe he gets lost a little bit amongst the dinosaurs and I think Glenn Powell knew that that could happen to him as well and so he decided to go for The Running Man instead and this is very much his big solo breakout star vehicle.
32:03He's got three things in his favor.
32:05Nick de Semlyen:He's extremely good looking, I've got to say. He's extremely likable and he has a very cool dog called Brisket. Ah, you're talking about Glenn Powell, not me. This is awkward now. I met Brisket. You met Brisket on the set of Running Man? On the set of Running Man, yeah.
32:20Chris Hewitt:Can I say that? I have now. I met Brisket and yeah for five minutes he lived on my lap and it was it was it was very very cool yeah amazing stuff
32:33Nick de Semlyen:good stuff maybe we'll do maybe we'll do a brisket brisket profile at one point so I'm just gonna just yeah we only got time for a couple of things there's lots of previews in the section there's Frankenstein yeah that's me again there's Roofman we get into the whole bond Denis Villeneuve-ness I want to just give a shout out though to John Nugent for his platform piece one baffling character posters and the platform is a kind of newish regular franchise we call it where we basically just people just vent if you've got something on your mind you can just you can just put it here and john john has been getting increasingly bothered by uh weird character posters highlighting characters so yeah so maybe unfairly we've picked on beck bennett um for superman and his character who, can you tell me his character name?
33:19Nick de Semlyen:Steve. Steve. Steve. Steve. Old. Steve Old. But I mean, Steve is just a symptom. He's not the problem. He's just, he's just, we also, you know, have the goats from For Love and Thunder. They got their own poster. I mean, they're many examples of like, why does this poster exist? Who has put this on their wall? So John has a very entertaining rant about that. Lombardi. Steve Lombardi. Lombardi. and then I want to give a shout out to Beth Webb herself section editor for a great piece on new kind of technology new types of cameras and jumping off of 28 years later and Danny Boyle's use of iPhones to do what he calls I believe he said something like a poor man's bullet time and then but also what was the stuff that was used in Sinners the fact that Christopher Nolan is shooting the whole of the Odyssey and IMAX, so he's developing that tech, and it's super interesting, given that it's, you know, quite techie.
34:20Nick de Semlyen:Blimey. Subject, but it's changing the way that films are being used, and films are being made.
34:26Chris Hewitt:John's section, the review section, as ever, has all the film reviews and all the TV show reviews and all the book reviews, and even a game review or two, I think, that you could possibly wish to read. It'll set you up for the month of moviegoing. It is absolutely belting. And then real quick, is my section, the best section, the final cut section. And I'm going to pick out my 75 highlights from this. No, the three highlights from this. One is I got to spend some time with Jeremy Renner, who has a book out called My Next Breath, which details not his career. If you are looking for Avengers anecdotes or stories of what it's like to be on the set of Mission Impossible, Ghost Protocol, you are not going to get them from this book.
35:13Chris Hewitt:If you want to know what it's like to be in the Hurt Locker, go somewhere else, my friend. If you want to know what it's like to be trapped under a 14 ,000-pound snowcat that has inadvertently run you over on New Year's Day on a property and effectively killed you, then this is a book for you. Because Jeremy Renner, a bit like Alan Partridge, needless to say, he bounced back, and he's alive and kicking. And I don't recall, really, we met someone with so much energy um for a long long time he bounced into the room he uh he sat down he had a a cookie that was on the table said he shouldn't be eating it but he wanted the sugar anyway uh since he nearly died three years ago because he you know he's as he chronicles in the book and discusses in the interview i did with him he did die for a short period um he has you know he has a newfound lease of life.
36:11Chris Hewitt:He has a newfound respect for life and he seems to have channeled that into an incredible amount of positive energy. That's certainly what I encountered when I sat down with him for this interview. And it is kind of humbling, quite frankly.
36:22Nick de Semlyen:It's a really interesting interview. I love that you end by spitballing alternate titles for his book, which is called My Next Breath. You suggested it be called The Hurt Locker. Yeah, yeah. I'm surprised he didn't go with that. No, no. My Next Breath, I think he wanted something a little bit more positive and optimistic.
36:40Chris Hewitt:The Hurt Locker is just a cheesy pun. It's a cheesy pun. Well, there's still time to change it for the favorite. He was trapped in the Hurt Locker for a long, long time. I mean, the recovery from this thing was horrific. But my next breath is about his sole thought process as he was crushed under the snowcat and as he was bleeding out with the air ambulance coming. He was literally bleeding out. He did die for a few minutes, was just focusing on his next breath. Just trying to do the next breath. And can I do this? All right, I've done one. All right, now I'm going to do the next one. And just the process and the energy that that took.
37:18Chris Hewitt:It's a great emotional read. Yeah.
37:20Nick de Semlyen:Arguably worth the price of the issue itself.
37:22Chris Hewitt:Oh, come on, man. You spent two days in James Cameron's thrall. This is, I had 40 minutes with Jeremy Renner. It's not quite the same, but I'll do the voice.
37:32Nick de Semlyen:But I mean, when you have an interview that's not really, I know it's promoting the book, but when you have a really heartfelt, emotional, heart-to-heart with someone, that's special, because that doesn't happen every day.
37:44Chris Hewitt:Yeah, it's one of those interviews where, sometimes I wing my questions, sometimes I wing my interviews, and this one I had a bunch of stuff written down, a bunch of stuff that I wanted to talk about with them. My opening gambit was, as I say in the piece, my first question isn't even a question, is simply Jesus Christ, Jeremy Renner, Jesus Christ. And he went, yeah, I know. That's how I started my James Cameron interview as well. Because it's astonishing when you read this book, because we all had an idea of what he went through, but when you read the book, you have no idea what he went through.
38:19Chris Hewitt:It's incredible. And I had some things I wanted to hit, some touchstones I wanted to hit, and then he's just such an ebullient ball of energy that a lot of that stuff fell by the wayside. but you know we talked about some movie stuff but by and large it is about you know just recovering from near death anyway the voice says that Jeremy Renner bounds into the room and greets Empire with the enthusiasm of a man who knows that he really shouldn't be bounding into any room at all so there you go
38:49Nick de Semlyen:there we go
38:49Chris Hewitt:what else is in this one there's a good ranking we did the best animated feature Oscar winners Ollie Richards did a brilliant masterpiece about Brokeback Mountain and oh this is one of my other favorite things from the issue I got to speak to Joe Carnahan and Jason Patrick about their classic cop thriller NARC which hasn't turned 25 but is being re-released and I got to sit down with them both not both not together but separately and they were both terrific absolutely terrific that's a really great film it's one of the great
39:24Nick de Semlyen:Ray Liotta performances yeah
39:26Chris Hewitt:really really
39:27Nick de Semlyen:amazing performance in that yeah I want to also shout out, I don't know if we've talked about special thanks to you, specifically, but I think it's such a fun read every month. This is your idea, right? Where when you stay long enough, if you sit all the way through the credits, you get rewarded with a list of people who the director is thanking. Yep. And sometimes you get an unusual name, and you're like, what? Why? Yeah. You know, for instance, people are talking recently about David Fincher being thanked at the end of Weapons. But you spotted that David Lowery gets thanked in all kinds of films.
40:00Nick de Semlyen:And so you kind of got the stories behind those. And I thought that was really cool. This feature has made me start sitting through films every time now. I know. To make a little note of who's thanked and why.
40:12Chris Hewitt:Because I've done this, I'm a credit sitter. I always have been. And not just because I'm waiting for a post-credit sting. And the special thanks to section, my eye has always been drawn to that. And I've always, there'll be a great story behind why that person and a particular husband thanked. And more often than not, there is a great story behind that. But the David Lowery thing is interesting because I noticed he pops up. And I spoke to David Lowery about this very, very briefly. And he basically was just like, oh, no, it's just, yeah, I just, people ask me for advice. I give him advice. He's a helpful looking man.
40:44Chris Hewitt:He is a very, very helpful looking man. David Lowery, listen to your friend David Lowery. And, you know, I spoke to Jared Johnstone, the director of Megan and Megan 2.0. And I spoke to, who else did I speak to? God, I can't remember who else. Ty West. I spoke to Ty West. so yeah it was a yeah good feature there's a good one next month as well anyway Nick press day calls
41:06Nick de Semlyen:we may have sold our souls but I think it was worth it for this this episode of Shameless Plug we have struck a fast year what have we done Satan himself has just turned up and he's he's opening a briefcase which can only mean the time has come to fulfill our pact anyway it's been fun it has been fun
41:24Chris Hewitt:thank you for this it's been good now you have to go back and finish another issue which we'll be talking about in two weeks' time. And we'll do the listener questions next week. Yes. Next week. All right, but thank you. And keep them coming. If you listen to this episode and you have a question that you want me or Nick to talk about in terms of how the sausage gets made, send them in. I'm on Twitter. Anything you want to know. Chris Hewitt on Twitter, Chris Hewitt on Blue Sky, send in those questions and we will tackle the best ones in that special. All right. Bye, Nick. Bye, Chris. I'm off to spend three days with James Cameron.
41:52Chris Hewitt:Fuck you. Hey. Thanks for listening. See you next time. Bye.
42:00You
From the publisher
Or 42 minutes with Chris Hewitt and Nick de Semlyen. Which would you prefer? Don't answer that. Anyway, that's what you've got with the latest episode of The Shameless Plug, as Chris and Nick sit down to talk about Nick's extraordinary adventures in New Zealand, shadowing James Cameron for two days as he put the finishing touches to this month's cover movie, Avatar: Fire & Ash. Elsewhere, our friends and neighbours talk about some of the other highlights from the September 2025 issue, including Chris' interview with Jeremy Renner, and Alex Godfrey's epic Zoom sit-down with Spinal Tap. Yes, actual Spinal Tap. It's all happening. For those tales, and more from behind the scenes of the world's biggest movie magazine, press play. And if you haven't picked up your copy yet, there's still time in good, evil and virtual newsagents wherever you are. Enjoy.