Voorhees, A Jolly Good Fellow? (ft. guest Tim Roth)

3:59Chris Hewitt:All right. Well, okay. So this one comes from Sanatos. If you don't know, if you're listening to the show for the first time, thank you for making it through the first five minutes. I nearly didn't. and James used to have a nickname and that nickname is now Passe we're asking people to contribute nicknames for James we're trying to find one that sticks he's rejected violently like Jason Furry's level of violence every single week people's suggestions for nicknames this week is going to be no different it's from Sanatos on Blue Sky after James turned down another nickname last week I have a suggestion since the Kamino kid came from Star Wars Episode 2, Attack of the Clones, five stars, says Empire Magazine.

4:43Chris Hewitt:I wanted to stay with the theme of planets from that movie. How about... And I'm not happy about this one either, so I don't know what you're going to feel. The Geonosis Jesus.

4:57Ben Travis:I mean...

4:57Chris Hewitt:It needs work. It needs work. It needs work. I think there have been others, but that's the first one my eyes alighted on.

5:04Ben Travis:Geonosis Jamesus would be more acceptable. No.

5:09Chris Hewitt:I don't know. maybe get your thinking caps on folks and think about you know what do we know that James likes? Swords he likes judging things he likes swords he likes walking around camps with a mask on killing people he likes dune Taylor Swift he likes potatoes he likes what is it? cheese he likes cheese so get these are all the things we know about James

5:33Ben Travis:my favourite I think I might have said this before my favourite nickname that came organically out of this podcast was from Ben when we were doing when we were doing Loki and you referred to me as he who explains which I thought I thought that was that was a good one but I don't I don't wish to adopt that as my nom de guerre I'm simply saying it was pretty good all right

5:54Chris Hewitt:well okay keep them coming keep them coming because we haven't found it yet but the Geonosis Jesus has been finally rejected I think by everybody here yeah all right

6:02Tim Roth:that's just terrible the Geonosis bit great it's then the Jesus element I think needs a rethink

6:07James Dyer:he's not sufficiently her suit.

6:09Tim Roth:That's true.

6:10Ben Travis:I don't have messianic hair.

6:12Chris Hewitt:Shall we have a question? Why not?

6:14Ben Travis:Alright.

6:16Chris Hewitt:This week I asked our Discord channel. We have an official Discord channel for questions. We have one. Here it is. It is from Neil Parks. My eyes have alighted on this one. With Project Hail Mary out next week. I'm afraid to say he's used the words Mount Rushmore. I didn't ask for this. this is something that has happened. This is independent of me. Mount Rushmore of movie astronauts. Now, this is interesting. We did the Mother's Day question a week early. We're doing the movie astronauts question a week early. We're getting ahead of ourselves. All right. You know how Mount Rushmore works. We do one every now and again.

6:58Chris Hewitt:We do, genuinely. We haven't done one in weeks. We've done two weeks running on the Pilot TV podcast. Have you? Yes. I mean, I know you have.

7:06Ben Travis:and the subjects were remind me again we did the Mount Rushmore of TV composers Barry McCreary yes indeed that was my thing

7:16Chris Hewitt:so I know you I know eight things about you you like cheese you like tune and you are incredibly specific about your tastes in television so you will not have gone for Ronnie Hazelhurst and you should have gone for Ronnie Hazelhurst no but that didn't come up alright Boyd

7:34Ben Travis:did Boyd bring that up did Boyd bring up Ronnie Hazlehurst it was either Boyd or it was one of the one of the listeners I can't remember

7:38Chris Hewitt:Tony Hatch did Tony Hatch get mentioned possibly oh my god you guys I went

7:44Ben Travis:I went Bear McCreary

7:45Chris Hewitt:apologies to Ramin Djawadi Pilot TV was bringing a knife to a gunfight the other one was the other one was the other topic the other subject

7:52Ben Travis:we did a Mount Rushmore of it was an International Women's Day thing and it was connected to TV female leading roles so iconic female TV leading roles

8:04James Dyer:That's a bit broad. That's very broad.

8:06Ben Travis:I mean, it was very broad. I mean, literally. But, yeah, I did not feel as a man I should be naming the iconic female performers. All right, Helen, go right now.

8:16Chris Hewitt:Four, your best for Mount Rushmore of female leading roles on television. Yeah. What did you say? Mariska Hargitay as Captain Olivia Benson in SVU. Okay, all right, that's one.

8:28James Dyer:Lorelai Gilmore, Buffy.

8:30Ben Travis:Buffy was my choice.

8:31James Dyer:Yeah, Buffy is the correct answer, actually.

8:33Ben Travis:although I would say Kate Mulgrew Captain Catherine Janeway and I forgot to say that when we discussed it and it upset me afterwards because I'd forgotten

8:40James Dyer:Resident Roslyn Laura Roslyn Laura Roslyn oh no Starbuck yeah and although is that a lead I mean it's an ensemble it is it is an ensemble it's a toughie which is why he was disqualified her from Happy Valley

8:53Ben Travis:her from Happy Valley do you know what

8:55James Dyer:that would have been a good question

8:55Ben Travis:Sarah Lancashire didn't come up

8:57Chris Hewitt:and she should have done

8:58James Dyer:it's a great great character there's some

8:59Chris Hewitt:there's some British erasure going on in the Pilot TV podcast not even mentioning Ronnie Hazlehurst how dare you shame on you shame on you

9:06James Dyer:I mean why are we re-litigating pilot instead of answering our own question

9:08Ben Travis:I'm enjoying this extended plug for the pilot TV podcast thank you Chris

9:10Chris Hewitt:it's good damn it

9:13Ben Travis:Chris you know what's happening because Chris was on the pilot TV podcast last week sort of pilot mega fan Chris Heuer I've warmed to it yeah he's now a fan there was a real

9:22Chris Hewitt:upturn in quality last week for about 15 to 20 minutes

9:25James Dyer:okay

9:26Chris Hewitt:and then it plummeted again but but yeah I think it could be it shows promise it shows promise and this is of course This is the ninth thing I know about James Dyer. He will never stop banging on about the fucking Pilot TV podcast. Anyway, back to this podcast. 20 years, you've learned so much.

9:40James Dyer:How long have I known you? No, 25.

9:43Chris Hewitt:It's been 84 years. All right, so let's go back to this podcast and this week's Mount Rushmore question, which is movie astronauts. He also said we could do Ryan Gosling characters, but I prefer movie astronauts.

9:57James Dyer:Mark Watney.

9:58Chris Hewitt:Mark Watney. Mark Watney. Shall we define what an astronaut is?

10:02Ben Travis:What, for the purposes, is Luke Skywalker an astronaut? No, obviously not.

10:06Chris Hewitt:No, don't be silly.

10:07Ben Travis:He's in space. Shall we look up, what's the definition of an astronaut? Do they have to have a helmet? I'm going to look it up. Is that what we're saying? Well, hang on, steady.

10:12James Dyer:Whoa, steady. I think there should probably be, ideally, a NASA patch involved, or...

10:19Ben Travis:You're so America-centric.

10:20James Dyer:Yeah, but they're cosmonauts if they're from the USSR.

10:23Ben Travis:They would have a NASA patch, surely.

10:25James Dyer:No, they'd have a, like, what do you call it? Space night.

10:29Chris Hewitt:A Russian patch is a patch ski.

10:32James Dyer:Oh, good Lord.

10:33Chris Hewitt:Wow.

10:34James Dyer:The point is, they are called something else. They're called cosmonauts or astronauts.

10:37Ben Travis:And the European astronauts are called? Well, astronauts. Euronauts. Wait, no.

10:42James Dyer:No, they are. Really? Oh, that's terrible. It is. I'm going to disqualify them just on that basis. That's just awful. But international, like, you know, sort of co-productions are allowed, I feel like, as long as it's sort of, you know, vaguely grounded in reality.

10:57Chris Hewitt:If they're in space and they've got a helmet and they're floating around a little bit, I'm going to allow it. If they're in something like a Dune or a Star War, I'm not going to allow it.

11:06James Dyer:So more grounded sci-fi we're talking about here. So like Sandra Bullock in Gravity, yes. Have a helmet. Yes.

11:14Chris Hewitt:Grounded is maybe not the right word, actually. Captain Picard, no.

11:18James Dyer:Captain Picard, no. No, he's not an astronaut.

11:20Chris Hewitt:Although the definition of an astronaut, according to Google, is a person trained, equipped, and deployed to command, pilot, or serve as a crew member of a spacecraft. Fucking hell. Derived from Greek words for star sailor. Working for agencies like NASA or ESA. They perform scientific research, maintenance, and spacewalks in microgravity, enduring high risk and physically demanding conditions. That doesn't really help.

11:50Tim Roth:They have to, at some point, be floating in zero-g in the ship or externally from the ship in a suit. Because if it's like we've got the anti-grav on all the time and we're kind of just living in this ship that happens to be in space, that's giving astronaut less than, to get through this corridor I have to float and fly like I'm swimming. I reject your gravitational bias.

12:14Ben Travis:I would say Ripley has an excellent space suit, therefore is an astronaut. She does some floating, though.

12:20James Dyer:So you're saying space suits are the difference? But then they have space suits? I'm all about the space suits. But they have suits in Star Trek.

12:27Chris Hewitt:They do, yeah. They don't use them often, but they do have them. She does wear a space suit.

12:31Tim Roth:When does Ripley float? Ripley? Isn't there a little bit of floating at the end when she battles the alien in the world? I don't think she floats. No, she doesn't float. There's no floating.

12:38Chris Hewitt:No, we don't float in space. Not in these movies.

12:41Tim Roth:They probably do a little bit of bouncy walking

12:44Ben Travis:on the planet. where the LV-426 has quite dense gravity so there's not a lot of bouncing. Sorry. God damn it. Yeah.

12:52Tim Roth:Well, they're not astronauts.

12:53Chris Hewitt:And also Ripley doesn't actually, she doesn't take part in that expedition. No, but she does. She rocks the spacesuit at the end. She does rock the spacesuit but does that make her an astronaut? Yes.

13:05James Dyer:Look, you cannot answer every single freaking question with aliens.

13:10Chris Hewitt:Watch me! That's the tenth thing I know about James. He's only seen two movies Aliens and Die Hard. Aliens and Aliens, the extended edition. Correct. So, yeah. Okay. Hellspell, so you immediately went straight in with Mark Watney

13:28James Dyer:from The Martian.

13:30Chris Hewitt:Matt Damon

13:31James Dyer:as Mark Watney.

13:34Chris Hewitt:Yes, Mars Colonist,

13:35James Dyer:Mars Space Pirate, Mars Survivor, Mars Pooper. Yeah. He is an inspiration and I love him a lot.

13:44Chris Hewitt:And is that your choice? Are you happy with that choice?

13:46James Dyer:I think I am. Yeah, I think I am.

13:48Chris Hewitt:What about Sandra Bullock?

13:50James Dyer:Love Sandra Bullock. I think she's fantastic.

13:53Chris Hewitt:I really like Sandy in that one. And of course, George Clooney.

13:58James Dyer:George Clooney, who would rather float away into space and die than spend five more minutes with a woman his own age. Ouch.

14:04Chris Hewitt:What's that from?

14:05James Dyer:That is Golden Globes when Tina Fey and Amy Poehler hosted.

14:11Chris Hewitt:Genuinely funny.

14:12James Dyer:Amazing joke.

14:14Chris Hewitt:Very, very good. All right, Ben.

14:16Tim Roth:I was going to ask, am I allowed Wall-E? But instead, I am simply going to demand Wall-E.

14:22Ben Travis:Absolutely not. He's not an astronaut. He floats around.

14:26Chris Hewitt:He's not an astronaut. He's not an astronaut.

14:28Ben Travis:He's a robot. Okay, so in Ben's defense, you're saying that the fire extinguisher sequence qualifies him as an astronaut because he does an EVA.

14:35Tim Roth:And the fact that he begins on Earth, blasts off with a spaceship. He might have you on a technicality.

14:41Ben Travis:He doesn't. in Ben's defense

14:44Chris Hewitt:he's only seen three movies Aliens Aliens The Special Edition and WALL-E and WALL-E so yeah I sort of completed it by that point cinema done yeah it's like Michael Owen he saw eight films he was like I'm done but he is fundamentally

14:58James Dyer:a robot like I love him I love him a lot but he is a robot he prefers the term

15:02Ben Travis:artificial person himself okay

15:03James Dyer:either way does he he is not a human being which astronauts traditionally are yeah you know with the astronaut thing fine

15:12Tim Roth:I'm sorry I'm rejecting

15:14Chris Hewitt:I'm rejecting Wally

15:15Tim Roth:we're rejecting Wally and you shall all be cursed

15:18Chris Hewitt:for that forevermore

15:19Tim Roth:fair enough

15:20Chris Hewitt:I have Cooper from Interstellar oh you're just you're just you're just saying names now you're so you're so angry about the Wally thing I'm upset

15:29Tim Roth:and the only thing that will give me solace is the fifth dimensional bookcase of love yeah and no other astronaut has been there it's a good choice that is a good choice Brandt would also

15:38Chris Hewitt:have been a good choice

15:38Tim Roth:which one was Brandt?

15:40Chris Hewitt:that would be Anne Hathaway but she doesn't hide behind the Ikea bookcase of luck so I think that's a good choice in fact I think that choice is alright alright alright alright good so two down one more to go

16:00Ben Travis:Brad Astra is sad Astra about his dad Astra in Ad Astra except that film is really fucking boring I like that film a lot I know you did and that's lovely no we're not having him instead I'm going to pick Cillian Murphy from Sunshine on account of him having the raddest space suit of them all

16:17Tim Roth:that is pretty bad sunshine that's right

16:20Chris Hewitt:okay that's it that's your choice that's my choice Dr. William Capper Capper is it William Capper I don't know we're not on a first name Robert Capper Robert Capper no that's a photographer

16:32Ben Travis:does he does he have a first name he has a name it's a bit like Beyonce or Wong you know

16:37Chris Hewitt:he's just Capper Kappa Sunshine. Sunshine. Robert Kappa. Amazing. Bobby K. Bobby C. Yeah, as he's known. Oh, is it Kappa with a C? Yeah, it is. C-A-P-A. Yeah, Cillian Murphy. Yeah. By order of the Peaky Blinders. Indeed. Thomas Shelby.

16:58Tim Roth:And what is the CERN, if not the blindingest Peaky Blinder there is?

17:01Ben Travis:It is Peaky Blinding. That's why you can't look at it through the window. Wow.

17:04Tim Roth:That's true. Otherwise you become scary Mark Strong. Yes.

17:07Chris Hewitt:Oh, yeah. Pinback. The chicken backer. Yeah. This raises a very interesting question. Jason Voorhees has been to space. Yes, he has. Is he an astronaut? Yes.

17:17Tim Roth:If I'm not allowed Wally, you're not allowed fucking Jason Voorhees.

17:20Ben Travis:Does the mask count as a helmet?

17:22Chris Hewitt:I'm saying yes.

17:23James Dyer:I don't know that he's still human, so I think we can get him on a technical basis. What's wrong with you?

17:28Chris Hewitt:What do you mean? Of course he's human. He loved, he had a mum.

17:32James Dyer:If he died a bunch and came back to life, without assistance of CPR, or other medical intervention. I'm saying he's maybe like some kind of malignant spirit or something.

17:44Ben Travis:I love the way that you're like gatekeeping space from robots and now the dead. No, no.

17:48James Dyer:I'm just saying we don't call them astronauts. He's a zombie. Oh, actually, he doesn't breathe.

17:55Chris Hewitt:So therefore, I'm sure that's not a qualification for being an astronaut, by the way.

18:01James Dyer:I feel like it is. Yeah? I think all of them. Neither did George Clooney

18:03Chris Hewitt:at the end of Gravity. Oh. Well, we don't know that. We don't know that. Gravity's real time. Gravity's real time. Spoilers, by the way, for gravity. Gravity is shot in real time pretty much, right? By the time Sandrick is down to Earth, he is still going to be floating around in space. Unless he ran out of air.

18:23James Dyer:Yeah.

18:24Chris Hewitt:If you were in that situation, right? So a Clooney situation or Favs in Deep Impact where you're just being shunted off into space, floating until your air runs out, would you just take the helmet off and end it quickly? Serious question. I want to ask you that.

18:44Ben Travis:I'm not sure decompression would be a delightful way to die.

18:48James Dyer:I think suffocation might be preferable. Really?

18:52Ben Travis:Than like exploding. Did you not watch Event Horizon? Would you explode? Well, not literally explode, but you know the scene from Event Horizon, especially like expel all the air from your lungs, like cover your eyes and orifices, and then it all goes a bit... Oh, not the orifices.

19:06Tim Roth:You don't want anything happening there. Also, I feel like you'd go all cold and crispy and then if a bit of debris hit you, you'd shatter into many places. Which, again, not a fan.

19:19Chris Hewitt:You know what? Yeah, but loads of people have died from suffocation. You'd be the only person in the history of civilization to have died that way, and that would be fucking cool. You could high-five yourself with your own severed hands. I mean, they'd shatter.

19:32James Dyer:Yeah. making it worse no I don't I think you haven't thought this

19:36Chris Hewitt:I haven't thought it through but anyway let's get back to my choice and I'm not going to go for Jason Voorhees I'm not going to go for Dr. William Weir even though he has an excellent space suit you have all because you were Philistines forced me to choose Dave Bowman from 2001 A Space Odyssey unfortunately

19:57James Dyer:I was hoping somebody would but I wasn't

19:59Ben Travis:disqualified on Ben's point that it's you know obviously because they used the rotational centrifugal force to create artificial gravity, therefore walking around, not floating around, therefore disqualify.

20:08James Dyer:No, but only like one tiny bit of the ship.

20:10Ben Travis:I'm just saying, if you can jog, then you're not.

20:12James Dyer:Well, there was also gravity and sunshine.

20:15Ben Travis:Yeah. Shut up, Helen.

20:19Tim Roth:I disagree mainly just because I'm Team Hal. Like, you're allowed to. You love a robot in space, don't you? I just think he had everybody's best interests.

20:29Chris Hewitt:Except for them killing them. Well, they had it coming. It was a mercy. They had it coming. They had it coming. They only had themselves to blame. Oh, my God, we don't have a PRS license. If you would have seen it, I bet you would have done the same.

20:46Ben Travis:I mean, we would be sued if that sounded anything like the actual song, but luckily it didn't, so we're safe. Lipschnitz.

20:53Chris Hewitt:Bowman. Daisy. Sandra Bullock.

20:57Ben Travis:I now know why I didn't go to the theatre with you. Chicago, except it's just called

21:02Tim Roth:Space Excellent stuff

21:04Chris Hewitt:Alright, so I think our Mount Rushmore of astronauts unfortunately they're all wearing their helmets so we can't see their faces so it's just four helmets up there Stop it! It is Mark Watney from The Martian Cooper from Interstellar Dr. Robert Capa from Sunshine and Dave Bowman My god, this Mount Rushmore is full of stars from 2001, A Space Odyssey. That's solid.

21:33James Dyer:Quite male.

21:34Tim Roth:Congratulations to men.

21:35James Dyer:So is the history of space. We discussed Sandra Bullock at length.

21:38Chris Hewitt:We did. As I am wont to do. But that's what we've gone for. That's what we've done. I hope you're happy with yourselves.

21:46James Dyer:And that list might change, I don't know, next week, but it hasn't changed yet.

21:51Chris Hewitt:Yeah. All right. Let's move on, shall we? Let's move on to movie news.

21:56James Dyer:Can we talk about some theatre news first?

21:58Chris Hewitt:Oh my God, what is this? The Empire Theatre Podcast?

22:02James Dyer:I mean, it really could be. We're extremely cultured here.

22:04Chris Hewitt:We are extremely cultured. Me and Helen could be the theatre correspondents. James could be outside, gaze in through a little window, trying to sneak a little peek.

22:14Tim Roth:Your new catchphrase could be, razzly dazzle. Oh my God.

22:18James Dyer:No, this is the news that Quentin Tarantino is going to write and direct a play set to debut in the West End in 2027. and it's called The Poppin' J Cavalier, which is... Okay. That's a title, isn't it? That's a title. It's certainly a title. This is meant to be inspired by swashbuckling epics of stage and screen. It's a rambunctious comedy. It's also been described as a classic farce.

22:50Chris Hewitt:By Quentin Tarantino.

22:52James Dyer:I mean, pretty much, yes. a sweeping celebration of theatre and its heightened romance told with Tarantino's signature style and unmistakable wit. So, you know, that's a thing that's happening. Obviously, as the author of Quentin Tarantino Dictionary on sale now in all good and evil news agents and bookshops, I'm extraordinarily excited.

23:14Chris Hewitt:What was your P? Because this would be P now, right? I guess Pulp Fiction.

23:20James Dyer:There's more than one per letter. I don't have to choose just one you know because yeah this is exciting

23:26Tim Roth:it's interesting I'm truly terrified at the prospect of who Quentin Tarantino will cast as himself in this play because you know that's going to happen there's going to be like a 15 minute segment that's like Tarantino doing a crazy accent and you're like well

23:42James Dyer:he was on stage in Broadway in the 90s and got very bad reviews

23:47Chris Hewitt:didn't he do Wait Until Dark

23:48James Dyer:yeah

23:48Chris Hewitt:and he wasn't

23:50James Dyer:to be fair I did read like a good review going you'll just hate him. You'll are hateraders drinking the haterade.

23:56Chris Hewitt:I do think that if Quentin Tarantino delivered a genuinely Oscar-worthy performance, a lot of people would just dismiss it anyway.

24:02James Dyer:But I think, and it was that period where he was turning up a lot in different things, acting a lot. But at the same time, I don't know that he's planning to act in this. I would be very surprised if he was. I think what's more interesting in terms of casting is going to be, does he go for the sort of young, fairly unknown theater actors or does he go like big stars that he can attract and either way the scrum for tickets is going to be insane.

24:29Tim Roth:I really do respect his commitment to doing anything but making that 10th film like the level of side quest

24:37Ben Travis:that he is on at the moment. this is not technically a film so I can now do loads of these.

24:41James Dyer:If he was serious about that I think he should make Kill Bill Volume 3 because according to his own logic that wouldn't count as one of the 10.

24:49Ben Travis:I mean, that's true. But then you'd have to called the whole bloody affair just part of the bloody affair. Two thirds of the bloody affair. Yeah.

24:56Tim Roth:I am excited about this though because I have come around on The Hateful Eight. I did not like The Hateful Eight when I first saw it. Love The Hateful Eight. And I've really come around on it but that is the closest thing we've got to like a Tarantino play. It is a bunch of characters

25:09Ben Travis:all in one room that really could be staged. Or Reservoir Dogs as well could easily be staged.

25:16Tim Roth:Yeah, I think Hateful Eight even more so though.

25:18Chris Hewitt:And has been staged. Michael Fassbender did a version of it when he was a student.

25:22James Dyer:But I do wonder about the specific genre here. This is not a sort of Tarantino core kind of a genre. That's going to be very interesting.

25:33Chris Hewitt:This feels more like one of his Four Rooms episode, almost in a way. That kind of farce, broad comedy.

25:42James Dyer:Even that was more crimey than this sounds like it's going to be, right? I mean, Poppenjay and Cavalier, that's... To hint, sir...

25:52Chris Hewitt:I'm sure there'll be a dreadful murder in it somewhere.

25:54James Dyer:I'm sure there will be, but like, I don't know, those words to me say 17, 1800s. You know, they do not necessarily say modern-day setting. I know not all of his films, of course, have been, but neither do they scream crime, which most of his films, to one degree or another, have been.

26:12Ben Travis:It could just be a very non-literal thing, like Reservoir Doctrine, It could just be an abstract title that could apply to anything. Because you don't really know with him, do you? Because a lot of his titles are quite plucked from the ether. So I wonder if it is quite as literal. It might just be him wanting to explore a different space, which I would applaud.

26:28James Dyer:Yeah, absolutely. I just think they're quite specific words, though. Do you know what I mean?

26:33Ben Travis:I love the word Poppin' J.

26:34Tim Roth:We should bring back the word Poppin' J. If we seed it now, then through the Tarantino play, by 2027, Poppin' J is everywhere. it'll be everywhere absolutely

26:44James Dyer:if I see Cavalier it just reminds me of the dancing Cavalier in Singing in the Rain

26:50Ben Travis:oh I see I went Vauxhall Cavalier but you know you do you

26:52James Dyer:wow I mean maybe that's what they're talking about it's a car that thinks highly of itself

26:59Ben Travis:it's like a pimp my ride type yeah I get it I'm there for that you uncultured swine

27:03James Dyer:if it is a pimp my ride farce by Quentin Tarantino I am so there I'm so there

27:10Chris Hewitt:maybe James is a Poppins J Cavalier my new nickname yeah the Poppin' J Cavalier no no better than the Geonosis Jesus yeah probably I think I'm excited about this I think it's going to be great I'm looking forward Helen to you and I going to see it and tell you James all about it afterwards no you can come Jimbo thank you I'll get three tickets oh what oh god Ben I'll get four tickets yay okay four tickets we can group out in let's go four for the Poppin' J Cavalier please yes Unfortunately, I can only afford the cheap seats right at the top, the god seats. But still, we'll be able to make out vaguely what's going on on stage.

27:50Chris Hewitt:Anything else? Any actual movie news?

27:52James Dyer:Yeah, there is some. Kate Winslet is apparently, they reckon now, pretty firmly the female lead, whatever that is, in the hunt for Gollum.

28:02Ben Travis:Using your vast Tolkienite lore knowledge.

28:05James Dyer:There is no lore for this. Who do you think she's going to be?

28:09Tim Roth:Lady Gollum. Do we think an elf? A golem with a little pink bow and the wispy hairs. Yes.

28:15James Dyer:Looking at her face, my inclination is elf. However, I have no reason to think that and it wouldn't make maybe a huge amount of sense. So I don't know. Like, woman out in the wilds doing stuff? I just think it's probably part of that, you know, desperate attempt to, you know, add some female characters occasionally to to J.R.R. Tolkien's stories because, you know, look, his only experience really of action in his life and most of his working life had, of course, been surrounded entirely by men. Like, he loved his wife very much. He was wildly romantic about her. That's where you get all that love poetry and everything from and all the sort of mad star-crossed lovers in the stories.

28:57Chris Hewitt:All the Tom Bombadil love poetry.

28:57James Dyer:Well, actually, genuinely, yes, because Tom Bombadil is a wife guy. He's a wife guy. He's a big wife guy, Tom Bombadil. Middle Earth's biggest wife guy. Well, I mean,

29:06Tim Roth:he's quite small physically, but yes.

29:09James Dyer:and you know they tried I mean for Lord of the Rings you know if people read the magazine recently you know Liv Tyler was talking about it about the fact that they really tried to get Arwen more of an action role and it just didn't work they just couldn't make it feel like Lord of the Rings and also have her at Helm's Deep but they literally she shot scenes in that battle she was there on set she was doing it so yeah so this could be a new character and it almost certainly is a new character unless she's going to take over Galadriel or something or A.N. other Rivendell

29:45Chris Hewitt:I don't think she'll be doing that I don't think so I can't imagine they'd recast in that way

29:49James Dyer:Cable and Chet still looks exactly the same let's be honest

29:51Chris Hewitt:yes yes

29:52Tim Roth:I'm confused about this film though because I was asking John Nugent who is a big rings head in the office I was like so I thought this film takes place within the time scale of Fellowship of the Ring of that little A squidge of time when Gandalf hotfoots it to a big library, ruffles through a bunch of papers to try and figure out what happened to the ring. Yes, but. Yeah, Jon was like, oh yeah, well that's like 20 years. 17, yeah. I said, I'm sorry. It looked like a weekend in the Peter Jackson film.

30:26James Dyer:They squished it in the Peter Jackson film.

30:28Tim Roth:Turns out it's a big squidge of time and not a tiny squidge of time.

30:31James Dyer:So basically, the birthday party at the start of Lord of the Rings is Bilbo's 11th but also Frodo's 33rd. And then Gandalf basically goes away until Frodo turns 50, which is kind of like going from, in Hobbit terms, going from like 18 to like, I don't know, 25 or 28. Like dog years. They live longer than us, so kind of yes. So their equivalent of becoming an adult is 33. which is you can probably get some like Christian metaphors there but anyway

31:06Chris Hewitt:yeah and then like at 50 they're kind of like a proper growing like fully formed

31:11James Dyer:adult so that's that's Frodo's age when he goes on the adventure which is about Bilbo's age and The Hobbit

31:18Tim Roth:I still think in human years if my mate was like I'll be right back and then came back in seven years I'd be like

31:25James Dyer:where the hell have you been 17 but at the same time he doesn't say it's about like sevenish But he doesn't say, I'll be right back. He just says, oh, look after it and keep it secret, keep it safe. Like, that's a line. But then he spends a lot of time researching and trying to reconstruct that narrative and also find Gollum. So there is a chunk of time there. Peter Jackson has made a rod for his own back by suggesting that, yes, it's essentially a week or two, but it is longer than that.

31:55Tim Roth:Also, I feel like Gandalf doesn't find Gollum. Gollum gets captured by... the baddies and

32:06Tim Roth:I'm so confused about this it's almost like they're really trying to make the hunt for Gollum happen they are it's happening it's happening there's nothing

32:15Chris Hewitt:we can do to stop it should it be happening I mean

32:18James Dyer:it's so true of so many things nowadays like do we need another one of these or should we do something else you're talking about

32:24Chris Hewitt:this podcast right

32:25James Dyer:pretty much yes

32:26Chris Hewitt:oh for god's sake but you know every day is Christmas Eve every day is Christmas Eve Every day is Christmas Eve, Ben. I think it could be good. It could be good. Let's give it the benefit of the doubt.

32:35James Dyer:100%. Absolutely, it could be.

32:36Chris Hewitt:Yeah, Kate Winslet doesn't sign up for shit. Absolutely. What else has been happening? Oh, this is exciting news. James, you must be excited about this.

32:44Ben Travis:This is the King Conan news, isn't it?

32:46Chris Hewitt:King Conan.

32:47Ben Travis:Yes. Arnold spoke, as he has a tendency to do sometimes, and basically just dropped a number of truth bombs, one of which was that he's going to be doing King Conan with Chris McQuarrie. and the other thing is that he's been working with Dan Trachtenberg on A New Predator and he's got a script for Commando 2 and you're like I'm sorry what I Parmy thinks he's had a dream like I'm not I'm not 100 % convinced any of these things are real but and I'm not 100 % sure I want some like nobody needs Arnold at the age he is doing Commando 2 let's be honest but King Conan I think is something that could work

33:19James Dyer:that could be interesting

33:20Ben Travis:as he wears his crown upon a troubled brow

33:22James Dyer:it could be quite Cohen the Barbarian as well if you know the Terry Pratchett character of Cohen, I would be quite up for seeing that. Which is basically a bunch of really old barbarians who decide to go and conquer a kingdom. And they just do because they're the ones who survived so they're real good at fighting despite all having various ailments. I think that would be quite a funny angle for him to play.

33:48Ben Travis:But I'm sure that's not the focus of people. Always be wary of an old man in a young man's

33:52Chris Hewitt:profession. This is interesting. I don't know how official this is. I'll be honest with you. I didn't realize that this came from Arnold Brunning.

33:59Ben Travis:He had a chat with someone and said, oh, by the way, I'm going to be doing this. All right, brilliant. Thanks, Arnie.

34:05Chris Hewitt:I thought this was announced to the trades as Chris McQuarrie's next movie. And he was making it with Arnold Schwarzenegger. But I didn't realize that, no. There's a very real chance this is news to Chris McQuarrie. Well, hey, why not? If you can send it out into the universe and the universe might manifest it. You never know. You never know. Let's hope.

34:27Tim Roth:I feel like a lot of Hollywood is obsessed with Conan, the idea of Conan, though. It's come up in various interviews I've done. People bring up, is it the Frazzetti, is that the name of the artist? Yeah. Like iconic Conan artwork. It's come up in Star Wars interviews I've done. I'm sure it's come up in a few other bits as well where they always reference that as like a sort of core totem to work towards. There's something like really, well, yeah, mythological literally but also the stance and the power of those characters and the sort of mythological status that they hold for Hollywood storytellers so maybe I think there's a whole bunch of people out there in LA who would love to do something Conan-wise

35:11Chris Hewitt:it could be cool I don't know that it's going to happen I really don't but who knows who knows maybe let's start

35:20Ben Travis:filming next week he may yet crush his enemies see them driven before him

35:23Chris Hewitt:and hear the lamentations of the women. Indeed. Yes.

35:27James Dyer:Billie Eilish might be starring in The Bell Jar for Sarah Polly. Sarah Polly directing The Bell Jar. Yeah, that makes 100 % sense to me. She's the director of Women Talking. Her tackling the Sylvia Plath novel makes a certain amount of sense. It's a difficult one to put on screen. A bunch of people have tried because everybody loves this book, but it is effectively a story about being really depressed. So it's hard to kind of give it a really...

35:55Ben Travis:Comedy then.

35:56James Dyer:Yeah, yeah. But, you know, Billie Eilish can maybe bring some soulful music to it at least. I don't know.

36:03Tim Roth:I'm really intrigued if we get an episode of The Studio that is about Sarah Polly trying to make a film of The Bell Jar with Billie Eilish and Seth Rogen. It does feel like one, doesn't it? An interesting pivot for Billie Eilish though. Obviously, she's been around movies. She's done the Big Bond song and Barbie song. I have not known her as somebody who's tended to dabble in acting. And so I think she's done an episode of a TV show, and that's about it. She's incredibly talented. Genuinely an unknown quantity as a star. And this is like a big... She's the lead of a film, Sarah Polley, very respected director.

36:42Tim Roth:There's got to be something there. It's interesting. There's a big pivot for her.

36:47James Dyer:It's a pretty interesting sort of track record for pop stars turning actor recently. I honestly think the Jonas Christmas movie was good, right? But leaving that aside, even just talking about the female superstars, Lady Gaga, good actor. Beyonce has done good work, you know.

37:03Tim Roth:I mean, the big year for this year is Charlie XCX doing a bunch of acting stuff.

37:07James Dyer:But also, she and her own faux documentary film is bloody fantastic. I thought she was absolutely great in that. so if Billy Eilish can keep up that standard we're in for a real treat

37:18Tim Roth:and we're about to get a Billy Eilish movie because we've got the James Cameron 3D Billy Eilish concert movie maybe James Cameron comes in and does a 3D conversion on the bell jar I swear to god

37:30Ben Travis:someone must have said how can we get James Dyer to go to a Billy Eilish concert movie and they're all

37:34Chris Hewitt:let's get James Cameron to direct it and that's why I'm on board yeah as a Swifty how do you feel about Billy Eilish is it like Natural Predator of Tater Swift No, I do not believe there is bad blood there particularly.

37:47Ben Travis:So I think we can. They coexist within the same ecosystem. I think so.

37:50James Dyer:The bad blood was with someone else.

37:51Ben Travis:Yeah, that was with someone else.

37:53Chris Hewitt:But no, I quite like Billy Irish. All right, good stuff. All right, well, something exciting happened while we were talking about movie news. Movie news dropped. For once, Hollywood didn't wait for us to have finished recording the podcast before dropping some stuff. They dropped a second trailer for Steven Spielberg's Disclosure Day. We took a little break to watch it. and what did we make of it? What does it look like it's about? A bit more clarity now, I would say, than the first teaser.

38:21James Dyer:Fractionally more, yes. But the idea, it's basically, it's still going into a little bit of creepiness. It's still leaning into a little bit of what is going on exactly? But giving us a bit more understanding of, okay, the government or the governments have been covering up the existence of aliens since it sounds like Roswell, Coleman Domingo references 79 years, so putting it in the near future, I guess, but Roswell sort of a thing. And saying that basically Joshua O 'Connor seems to be trying to bring it all to light with the question mark help of Emily Blunt, who seems to be unaware of what's going on, but seems to be definitely involved in it.

39:03James Dyer:And Colin Firth is definitely trying to cover it up.

39:06Ben Travis:That I'm clear on. It's exciting. Just Spielberg doing science fiction. It's been, what, 21 years since War of the Worlds? And I am incredibly psyched about this.

39:16James Dyer:You have obviously forgotten Ready Player One, but that's okay. Let's just continue to do so.

39:20Ben Travis:No, no, 21 years. I'm saying 21 years since this last...

39:23Tim Roth:As the Ready Player One defender, I will say it's becoming increasingly real. What is Fortnite if not the Oasis? Does it still just make it good?

39:31Ben Travis:Look, this is exciting. And I think as far as atonement for West Side Story goes, this is coming a long way. So, you know...

39:37Tim Roth:Boo on you.

39:38Chris Hewitt:Boo on you.

39:39Ben Travis:that's the 11th thing I know about James

39:41Tim Roth:it's so pretty there's some real like classic sci-fi Spielberg stuff here of the proximity of awe and terror the magnitude of the alien shit happening here looks both kind of thrilling but also very unsettling in a kind of close encounters way rather than a friendly E.T. kind of way and some of the because the imagery looks quite cold and quite stark. There's a bit of AI about this as well, and I am a big AI the movie fan. AI the thing.

40:18James Dyer:Yeah.

40:18Tim Roth:Thumbs down for me, personally.

40:20James Dyer:I have long been an AI defender. The movie, not the thing. Wow. For me, the tone of this seems like really balanced halfway between Close Encounters and War of the Worlds. Yeah. And that's really interesting. That's an exciting place to be.

40:34Ben Travis:It's like it's a proper, the sort of weather sequence where she starts speaking the alien tongue. That's a proper kind of hairs on the back of your neck. I'm assuming you can already do a degree in that language at some university in America, but I love it. I think it's brilliant because it's really creepy. It's really unnerving. It's very disturbing. There's something almost atavistic about it. It's horrifying.

40:54Tim Roth:I think it's interesting as well. There seems to be an emphasis on this with the Josh O 'Connor character of wanting to reveal this information of the need for truth. and if we're talking about AI, the thing, not the movie, we are in a time when it's going to become increasingly difficult to know what is true and what is not in terms of what we're seeing and what is known. And we already have been through years away from AI of just manipulation of truth and fake news in quotations and twisting of the truth. And so I think it's an interesting time for a big sci-fi movie that is doing alien shenanigans that at the same time seems to be about the need for truth.

41:35Chris Hewitt:Fun fact, by the way, Ben didn't say any of that. That was all AI. Secondly, there's a bit in this where Colin Firth appears, because he seems to be a baddie, and this appears to Eve Hewson, a.k.a. Flora, from Flora and Son. She's in this as well, and he appears to her in her kitchen, but apparently by some sort of hologram or something like that. I don't think it's a hologram.

42:00Ben Travis:it feels like it's some kind of like mental sort of psychic projection thing with the aid of technology. It seems to be she's receiving it somehow.

42:07Tim Roth:Do you think this is going to be like the gesture control in Minority Report, which was total science fiction at the time and then became the basis of how we interact with screens these days? And in 20 years, we're all going to have neural implants that mean we too, if we choose to, can see Colin Firth in our kitchens.

42:25Ben Travis:I don't want Chris beamed into my kitchen on a whim. That's just too upsetting. I might be in your kitchen this weekend oh no but you'll be literally in my kitchen this weekend yeah this is true

42:34Chris Hewitt:anyway anyway looks good the movie will be out later on in the year pick a month June July one of those

42:45James Dyer:feels like a

42:45Chris Hewitt:summer movie there's a big action sequence with a car and a train

42:48James Dyer:two trains

42:49Chris Hewitt:two trains two trains and two cars what's better than one train two trains what's better than one car two cars fantastic alright that's a disclosure maths with Chris Hewitt

43:00James Dyer:I guess it depends on your definition of better. Anyway.

43:03Chris Hewitt:Yes. There you go. Disclosure date. Trailer hath dropped. Shall we have a guest?

43:08James Dyer:Let's.

43:08Chris Hewitt:Let's do it. We only have one guest this week. Overall, usually we have a spin-off show, the interviews, if I've overbooked. But that is not the case this week. We only have one guest. Next week, not the case. This week, one guest. And that guest is Tim Roth. and he is one of the stars of Peaky Blinders, The Immortal Man, which is the continuation, the big screen, continuation slash small screen if you're watching it on Netflix, of Peaky Blinders, the very, very successful BBC show starring, of course, Cillian Murphy as Tommy Shelby. James? Tommy Shelby. There you go, thanks. No fighting. No fucking fighting.

43:50Chris Hewitt:That's, yeah. It's good. It's better than mine. It is better than mine. So, Tim Roth is in this. It's set in World War II. And Tim Roth is a rotter. He is a rotter in this. He is having all sorts of fun. He plays a guy called Beckett, who is an English guy, but he is a Nazi agent who is working against the Shelbys. And in fact, the King of the Crown. And we won't, we will not stand for that kind of thing. We will not stand for that. He has, if you've seen the movie, it's been out in cinemas for about a week or so. It's going to be on Netflix next week. If you've seen the movie, he has an incredible opening line, which we talk about, but we don't actually say the line for obvious reasons in this interview.

44:36Chris Hewitt:I had a lot of fun talking to Tim Roth. Do please enjoy it. This character is a hell of a character. The movie will be out in cinemas by the time this is going out. Some people will have seen it. You have an amazing character introduction in this film.

44:53Helen O'Hara:I didn't see it because I was in the loo having a piss with Steve Knight.

44:59Chris Hewitt:Do you schedule your piss breaks? No.

45:02Helen O'Hara:I never watch anything that I'm in. Right. I very rarely do. I have a couple of exceptions. But Killian and Tom, director, threatened me. So I was like, all right, I've got to watch it. So I thought, I'll watch it. And my wife was really pleased that I was going to sit in and do that. So I did it. But I missed the beginning. and I know what you're talking about and that was a line that I improvised when we were shooting the train stuff it wasn't in the script and we were mucking about me and Tom, it was just me getting on and off a train, I was so happy I was like a child around the steam trains in Digka it was so lovely and they were doing an incredible job there was none of the shaky camera acting stuff that was going on they were really just doing classical stuff.

45:52Helen O'Hara:They wanted to make it like a period movie and filmed in that time in a sense. And so we were having a fantastic time doing all the station work and then I just threw that line back at it was actually aimed at Tom. Should we say what the line is for people who maybe... I can see why. Let's let him find it. And then I, of course, that was actually I could not believe they kept that as the first line of the film.

46:19Chris Hewitt:It's the first line of the film. And it sums it up. It's a mission statement. It's a statement of intent for the whole thing. So I missed it because of Steve.

46:27Helen O'Hara:I think he did it intentionally because he hadn't written that line. He's furious. He's absolutely furious. You should get co-writing credit on this. He's from Birmingham. What are you going to do? But it is. It's such an amazing way. I'm so glad it's improvised. That is hilarious. And Tom's laughing as ourself. And he said, do it again, do it again, do it again. I was all right. And then so every time we were doing ADR and stuff, you know, Transatlantic, I said, he brought it up. He said, you know, that's the first line in the movie. And I thought they'd cut it. I really did. I didn't think it would survive, but kept it in.

47:02Chris Hewitt:So you don't watch your own movies? No. At all? No. Is that something you've had since day one?

47:08Helen O'Hara:No, not at all. I stopped doing it, God, I don't know how many years ago, a long time ago. So the exceptions were, have been, if it's a Quentin thing, I like to see what he's up to. I'd love to see what the actors are up to too cinematically. And then there's this Mexican filmmaker that I work with, Michel Franco, and he's always doing something intriguing cinematically. So I watched those two and that's it. And then I broke my law for this one.

47:38Chris Hewitt:It came about really because when you're doing a crap movie,

47:41Helen O'Hara:sometimes you have to do a crap movie and it's fair play and sometimes they're the most fun to do yeah just to make sure no student loans keep the roof on yeah do that stuff so you got to do them yeah and um but then you do the ones that they in a way pay for which are the ones for love you do all that stuff but i still there were a couple of films that i did which were where um the ego of the director and and the power of the money behind the film um it felt like they got in the way of the actual of what the film could have been having been on set you know and it being an extraordinary experience and fantastic script and all of that and then outside sort of forces can just corrupt

48:32Chris Hewitt:that so i stopped watching so you watched those films and then you were disappointed you know i

48:37Helen O'Hara:I'll stop because the experience of making it is what's important to me in that respect. Those days on set with those actors, I don't want that to be broken.

48:49Chris Hewitt:So obviously your experience of making films is very, very different to people's experience when they watch the films. But does that mean then because you haven't watched these movies, years later when someone comes up to you and maybe quotes a line from something you haven't seen. Yeah, it's nice. Does it ring a bell for you or do you keep those experiences in here and up here?

49:06Helen O'Hara:Yeah, I find it interesting. The things that people like, they come up and want to talk about. I like that it's so varied. And quite often they come up and they tell me about a film I haven't seen, which, again, is really fun. I like that.

49:24Chris Hewitt:That's amazing. I was thinking about some of your character introductions over the years, and obviously you kick off Pulp Fiction as well, which is nice. Yeah, beginning and end.

49:33Helen O'Hara:Yeah, beginning and end. Yeah. Yeah. We had a lot of fun making that.

49:37Chris Hewitt:I can imagine that you did.

49:39Helen O'Hara:Yeah, we did. And he shot it as almost a separate film. So he shot those scenes. It was the beginning of the shooting schedule, and he just did the pumpkin honey bunny scenes. I think we shot them over two weeks or something like that. It was a lot of fun.

50:01Chris Hewitt:It was amazing because you get to be on the end of the Ringo speech as well.

50:04Helen O'Hara:Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. With Mandy P. I love Mandy P. She's amazing. Is that your nickname for her? I did this thing. I used to do this thing where I was over here when I was first starting acting where I would go to like theatre design colleges like Central and stuff and just put my name up on the board saying actor available, you know, because they would want to do plays so they could do that if they were in costume design or anything. So I ended up going to the Edinburgh Festival and stuff like that, doing plays up there. So I did it. So when I got to America, I would make sure that they – and I already had 10 years on me at that point, but I made sure that students knew that they could approach me.

50:53Helen O'Hara:And so I would do student films. and I met Amanda on – I'd met her in London sort of briefly when I was doing a play. But, yeah, I met her over there. We did a student film together. Wow. And then I introduced her to Quentin. The rest is history.

51:16Chris Hewitt:So is that something you still do? Are you still approachable in that way? We do.

51:20Helen O'Hara:I'm going off to do independent film next with Timmy Spall. Wow. One of my heroes.

51:27Chris Hewitt:The old Mike Lee fan diagram in full effect there again.

51:30Helen O'Hara:Oh mate, we've done a couple of moody films together, but we had so much fun. Yeah. And so, yeah, I was doing, again, Little Indy in Wales and he happened to be there, so I said, do you want to do this thing? So yeah, so off we go.

51:48Chris Hewitt:So if someone wants to cast Tim Roth in a student film, how do they go about doing that? make the call it is out there that I am approachable about that stuff yeah

51:57Helen O'Hara:independent film especially is important to me I love it yeah

52:01Chris Hewitt:it's in your bones so you yeah and I feel

52:04Helen O'Hara:the fragility of it as well I mean I love working with first time film directors and I've got a good record for that Quentin being one of them yeah and so yeah it's always always that's first time out is not an off put to me at all amazing

52:21Chris Hewitt:So how did you get approached to be in this? Was it a clandestine? Yeah, clandestine.

52:27Helen O'Hara:I texted Killian, who I worked with before, again on a little film. And then we'd met over the years and we get on well. So I texted him after he won his Oscar and I said, keep your head down and get running, you know. And we were laughing. And then he texted me back and said, want to do a film? I was like, yeah. and then this came up so that was it that simple he just yeah and he got he gave Rebecca the job and Barry too on this wow he wanted he helped he's got a pretty good

53:05Chris Hewitt:instinct for casting this guy well he wanted to put

53:07Helen O'Hara:those people around for this particular sort of world part of that of the peaky world I suppose we were very lucky it was fun

53:13Chris Hewitt:were you a peaky fan peaky flan a flan

53:16Helen O'Hara:a fan a fan a fan I was more of a flan I no I hadn't I'd not seen it. Okay. I bumped into him over the years when he was filming it, which is fun. And I knew some of the actors that went through it, and they were always good. Benjamin Zeff and I I worked with at the very beginnings, and I was just a fan of his anyway. Yeah. And people like Stephen Graham and, you know, good mobbing. And so, yeah, it had always been one of those things that are sitting there and then i when killian asked me to do it i had to make a decision on whether i was going to watch it or not okay and i decided not to so i just came into it brand new and and which i thought the cat was right for the character he's walking into that world and he doesn't know he doesn't know these people yeah he hasn't seen picky blasters no he hasn't he hasn't And also they have a question on the kind of fashion front too.

54:18Chris Hewitt:So he, yeah, so I did that. And now I'm going to watch it.

54:22Helen O'Hara:I'm going to watch it after this is all over.

54:24Chris Hewitt:Because you come in, Beckett's a great disruptor. He's a good guy. Yeah, he's a peacekeeper and he wants to try and stop a war. And he's just asking for some help. It's a very flexible reading of your character's actions here, Tim. Don't you think? Yeah, I think so. Is this one of those classic actors who are playing the bad guy, the character doesn't want to be the bad guy? No, he's a bad guy.

54:48Helen O'Hara:He's a good guy.

54:49Chris Hewitt:No. That opening line would beg to differ, but okay. When they sent me the script,

54:58Helen O'Hara:that's what I was really looking forward to because it's Stephen Knight. He was not written that way. He was written aristocratic, kind of up-classy, militaristic, very formal and all of that. and I hadn't met them. So I did the Zoom thing with Tom, director, and Stephen, and I said, quick question, what about if? And my take on it was, could we make him a lot more like a working class kind of geography teacher? Yeah. And so there he's got a job to do. He's quite pragmatic, but he is less alien to the Peakeys than that would have been. So there is a level where he can communicate, he can meet with them, he can be in the same room, and it's not that class system at play as much.

55:56Helen O'Hara:And so, yeah, they were up for it completely, and we just flipped and went down that road.

56:01Chris Hewitt:I was really struck by him. I thought he was a really compelling character, despite his affiliations.

56:10Chris Hewitt:and he's the smartest guy in the room I think at all times in this movie and there's a real joy to be taken as a viewer watching someone like yourself play the smartest guy in the room because you have a smile playing on your lips I think throughout

56:24Helen O'Hara:well there's that but that would depend on what the other actors were up to and it was that you know we had we had a lot of room for manoeuvre Tom was very good with that so we would just play out the scene see where they went and then gradually they would hone themselves and fine but yeah he's yeah sitting there having a chat trying to get the job done you know

56:51Chris Hewitt:and most of your scenes are with Barry and with Baz yeah

56:55Helen O'Hara:which was great and again he is

56:59Ben Travis:he likes to play yeah

57:01Helen O'Hara:And so we would find our way and then I'd kind of watch him and see where he's going with stuff. It's just a very amenable character to play, as in he can go in any direction. You've got to watch him. More you've got to watch your back, really.

57:19Chris Hewitt:Well, actually, your front. But again, you're the smartest guy in the room, so you think you can handle him? No spoilers.

57:25Helen O'Hara:No spoilers. We could get into spoilers, but we won't get into spoilers. Don't do that. no it's fun to play for sure yeah but he felt like he belonged in that world that's for sure yeah very much so on one level or another uh with killian though i don't think

57:38Chris Hewitt:it's saying a huge spoiler to say you don't have a lot of scenes with him despite the fact he texted you and said you want to do a film together and then you're barely in it with him

57:46Helen O'Hara:no we have a moment you have moments yes key yeah um no the idea is always with those you have to give them a really good mountain to climb over and that was what we were why i was there for i I think, you know. And so when we do have our scenes together, they are fun. Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

58:05Chris Hewitt:You get to shoot at each other in this sort of classic 1920s gangster style. There's an action scene involving horses and Tommy guns and all sorts of stuff.

58:14Helen O'Hara:Those horses were extraordinary. Yeah. And the machine guns were going off. Yeah. And the horses were better trained than the actors. Let me just say that. No, we had some extraordinary.

58:27Chris Hewitt:Beautiful too. Hurling dialogue at each other through Doing it across the backs

58:31Helen O'Hara:But it was very Again it felt like an old movie In a way It felt like an old 30s movie Of its time It was kind of nice to be a part of that

58:43Chris Hewitt:But then there's always this lovely Punk aesthetic as well To the film and it feels very very classical It's a World War 2 movie That has obviously the Peaky Blinders aesthetic applied to it as well So you get these But it gives a nod to the show.

58:59Helen O'Hara:I mean, it's part of the show from what I hear. They really wanted to do that.

59:06Helen O'Hara:It's a cinema version or episode of a long-running show, and I think that's a good thing to do. So it's consistency is there, and the characters are there, even the new ones. They feel they should be in that world.

59:20Chris Hewitt:So you haven't seen Piggy Blinders, but what shows do you watch?

59:23Helen O'Hara:I don't really watch. to be honest with you I'm more a sort of movie buff guy I'll tell you what I have been watching which has been really helpful is we had a difficult time with our family we had some illness in the family and stuff I'm going through a really really difficult time and I remember coming down in the kitchen one I don't know if this is what you want in your interview but I come down in the kitchen and my wife had found that television show Would I Lie to You? Oh my god Right? And you've got Lee Mack and David Mitchell doing their thing. And I was like, what is this? Sharpest guys.

1:00:02Helen O'Hara:The sharpest guys. Absolutely brilliant. Yeah. And then we started sort of watching this, and it would just give us a break from everything. And there was James Acaster on it and, you know, all of these different comedians. And then we started looking at the comedians that are around in Britain, which I think is some of the best in the world, if not the best in the world.

1:00:23Chris Hewitt:Yeah.

1:00:23Helen O'Hara:And, you know, Greg Davies and Taskmaster stuff, and you find them again, and then Ramesh. And I'm going on a TV thing about this with Sarah Pascoe. Oh, really? She's phenomenal. And then Luz Sanders. I mean, just honestly, it keeps going. We went on a comedy binge rather than anything else. We went on a comedy binge. Oh, man.

1:00:44Chris Hewitt:And I love that.

1:00:45Helen O'Hara:And that gives you a break in absolutely the best way, I think. Yeah, half hour, 45 minutes. Yeah, I'll take a bit of that. I need a bit of that. Especially now with everything that's happening in the world, you can really use them. They're brilliant, I think.

1:00:58Chris Hewitt:I love those shows. By the way, I know on Would I Lie to You, over the years they do tend to have actors on. Samantha Morton's been on, Tom Courtney's been on.

1:01:07Helen O'Hara:I don't know if I'd survive. You'd survive. I'd like to have a go, though, for sure. I could take on Lee Mack. Or be on his team, and then you wouldn't have to worry about that. I'd be fine.

1:01:18Chris Hewitt:He is so sharp.

1:01:19Helen O'Hara:It's ridiculous. not going out is his show

1:01:22Chris Hewitt:it's absolutely brilliant

1:01:24Helen O'Hara:yeah incredible they're so quick

1:01:29Chris Hewitt:I'm going to campaign Tim I want you to be on that we're actually doing a whole campaign

1:01:34Helen O'Hara:to get as much as possible to get over here and make films and work over here just across Europe so good, so interesting good stuff coming Tim Roth it's been a pleasure cheers pal, thanks a lot

1:01:50Chris Hewitt:Okay, that was Tim Roth talking about Peaky Blinders, Peaky Blinders, The Immortal Man, which is out in cinemas right now, I think for another week or so, and then it'll hit in Netflix. Yes. And then we'll be doing a supporter special about it, Jimbo. Yes, I've now seen it. Which I'm very excited about because I haven't seen a single second of Peaky Blinders. And this could be fun. This could be a good one. Yeah. It could be a good one. But what an opening line. My God. Talk about a statement of intent and then moving on from there. But let's talk about movies that are out this week. In the multiplexes, or indeed on your sofa plexes, it is the reviews section of the show.

1:02:29Chris Hewitt:Actually, let's start with a movie that was out on Netflix last week, but we didn't get round to it in the reviews section. And this is Jack Reacher starring as Alan Richston in War Machine.

1:02:41Ben Travis:Yes. Jimbo. Hello. This is the second War Machine film on Netflix. It is. Yes, indeed. because David Michaud's film was it 2017 with Brad Pitt? The satire? The anti-war satire? Yes. This is significantly more fun than that. So are you saying

1:02:56James Dyer:War Machine rocks with an X?

1:02:57Ben Travis:You know what? I wish if this film had been four stars when I wrote the review that was the verdict that I had pre-packaged for it. Unfortunately, spoiler, I gave it three stars so it doesn't rock

1:03:06Chris Hewitt:but it kind of wobbles. James came out of retirement to write the review of War Machine for the magazine and I have to say, James, it was very good.

1:03:13Ben Travis:Thank you very much. I was tricked. Do you remember we had that? we were in the office we were talking to John we were like John have you got someone on a war machine you should really review war machine and John said to me thank you 600 words I was like fuck mind games yeah that's right mind games I was tricked I was tricked into writing this review anyway anyway anyway this does star Jack Reacher as 81 for he is numerically named that is the name he is given when he joins the army rangers the sort of like training program to join the elite recon division of the army rangers so we get a prologue where he and his bro Jai Courtney who for whatever reason doesn't make it out of the prologue.

1:03:46Ben Travis:I knew that because Jai Courtney is my specialist subject. Yes, that's right. I don't know, Chris, how long does Jai Courtney last in War Machine in minutes? Go on. Tell me immediately. Two and a half. Roughly accurate, yes.

1:03:58Tim Roth:It must be the easiest payday he's ever had.

1:04:00Chris Hewitt:Yeah, turn up, get blown up, leave. I'm going to cash out bloody chick, mate. I thought that was

1:04:06James Dyer:a spoiler, but all right. Well, I mean, it's the prologue.

1:04:10Chris Hewitt:It's fine. I mean, he practically has Dead Meat Thompson written on his face. He does. The second he appears.

1:04:15Ben Travis:He gets blown up. Jack Reacher carries him like 300 miles on his back, but he still dies. And Jack Reacher... Because he's only got the top half. Jesus. Jack Reacher, as a tribute to his dear departed Jai Courtney, decides to join the army ranching because that's something they'd always planned to do together. So it's like a big bro bonding thing. But of course, he's very, very surly and PTSD'd and he's sad about his dead brother. Sad butcher. So he punches people and he runs a lot with a backpack on and he's like the ultimate soldier, but he has a gammy knee. Gammy knee. So you're actually wondering if he will become an army ranger.

1:04:45Ben Travis:But, and so it's like a boot camp movie. And then about halfway through, they are told that they have the final challenge in their trial to become army rangers. And it's called the Death March, which obviously doesn't bode well. And the idea is that they go out in the field and they have to find a kind of a, like a fake, a fake thing. They have to find a MacGuffin and take a picture of it and then blow it up, whatever it is. They go out there and what they actually stumble across is basically an alien killing machine, which has just landed. Because all the way through the film, we're hearing about, oh, there's an asteroid coming.

1:05:14Ben Travis:It's like, oh, I wonder if this asteroid could be important. Anyway, Alien Lands, they wake up the alien, the alien follows them, and this enables the writer-director of this film, who is, in fact, Patrick Hughes, who did both Hitman's Wife's Bodyguards, Dogs films. Yes, Hitman's Wife's Bodyguards. And Expendables 3? Expendables 3, yes. I'm going to say it, the only good Expendables movie. Expendables 3, right. So he did those, and he basically sat down one day in front of the word processor and thought, what if Predator but Transformers? and that's basically what this film is they are hunted through jungles quarries rivers you know it the great American wilderness by a giant steroidal ED-209 type alien killing machine yes which for whatever reason thinks that the best way to invade Earth is by randomly hunting student soldiers fine whatever

1:06:04James Dyer:I think to be fair the aliens have landed like all over and this one is just targeting the only people who are around

1:06:11Ben Travis:I mean it feels a bit low stakes except there have got to be more important people to kill than these guys. Anyway, it sort of goes around, follows them around, killing them all until eventually it comes up against Jack Reacher. And I will not spoil what happens next. Oh my God. R.I.P. Jack Reacher. Jack Reacher is horribly eviscerated by a Transformer.

1:06:30Chris Hewitt:The top half of Jack Reacher forms with the bottom half of Jai Courtney. And they come together as some sort of massive Voltron of muscles. Jai Reacher. Yeah. Jai Courtney. Yeah. That's what happens.

1:06:42Ben Travis:Oh my God. Basically, that's what happened. This is so fucking stupid. Like, it is stupid with a capital S. It is the most stupid thing ever devised, and I had a really good time watching it. I really... What have we seen? What was the other film last week that we saw that was really boring? I mean, I don't... That doesn't really narrow it down, does it? Anyway, we saw something last week. I can't remember what it was. It was very boring. And so when I came to see this, this was like a glass of cool water in the desert. Like, it was exactly what I needed. brainless utterly stupid deeply ridiculous fun and I had a whale of a time with it it's quite it's quite repetitive if I'm honest like really like a lot of the action sequences are quite rote but it's still enjoyable and even though I don't know what the budget for this film is but the CGI is very very convincing I actually really enjoyed the big you know monster on on soldier action and they shot on location as well and they shoot on location you feel that there's not an LED volume in sight which is lovely it's not Predator obviously but it's still a good time and also bearing in mind this is a straight to Netflix movie I feel like this is the absolute definition of oh I've got nothing to do on Friday night let's turn on with Netflix I wonder what War Machine is should I spend two hours watching it and the answer is fuck yes

1:07:53Tim Roth:that was my main issue was that it felt so Netflix it does and it has that like grey digital sheen it's written and directed by Netflix basically the algorithm Alan G Rhythm

1:08:06Chris Hewitt:is the producer on this one yes

1:08:09Tim Roth:so when you think of Predator it's not just that the characters pop and the alien is incredible it's got that sense of texture and the sweat and you feel that in the celluloid of that whereas this is so cold, digital sheen Netflix to the max and actually I think the film itself is actually a bit better than that and is slightly underserved by being compressed and greyed out for a Netflix release. And I thought it got more and more fun and exciting as it went along. They do a really good job of making it convincing that this giant alien robot is going to absolutely eviscerate you. There's quite a lot of gooey gore in this because people get exploded in bits by the war machine.

1:09:00Tim Roth:And so you do feel that panic. They have nice little devices of, oh, when its compass starts going nuts, that means the war machine's nearby and imminently the shit's going to hit the fan and when those things happen you feel that kind of spike of oh you've really got to hightail it out of there there were a few points where I got annoyed with the rangers who they'd all start to see the war machine is coming and they'd sort of stand there for five seconds going oh no the war machine's coming you're like no

1:09:29Ben Travis:you should have started running five seconds ago

1:09:32Tim Roth:and then they die because they get exploded into bits

1:09:36James Dyer:I did think there's a bit of a tension in this film between, on one hand, you know, his personal journey involves, you know, getting past his own trauma to become a leader, to accept the help and companionship and support of others. And also, they really kind of want him to be the last man standing and do it all on his own. And they couldn't quite, for me, balance those two in a way that felt really sort of narratively character satisfying. I know I may be silly asking for character work in this film, but, you know, it would have been nice.

1:10:07Ben Travis:We know he can do it. Honestly, I think that's a film's, one of its biggest problems is the lack of characterization. And it's not just because he is, as I said in my review, basically Jack Reacher with a gammy knee. Like, there's no real distinction between these two characters. But also, I think, you know, Aliens and Predator are two films that show you that it is possible to have completely rounded characters within a squadron of troops. You don't have to spend a lot of time with them to make them feel distinct. And they're all a bit homogenous here. It's just, you're just cannon fodder. they're just some guys I think Stephen James is probably the only one that stands out but I would have liked to have known the soldiers before they got splatted

1:10:38James Dyer:that's a big thing for me I also the ending is sequel Beatty

1:10:43Ben Travis:yeah to the max yeah it really is I don't

1:10:45James Dyer:I didn't we don't need more War Machine

1:10:48Chris Hewitt:when Trang Courtney comes back he's putting a team together I should say in the Trang Courtney thing that was just an elaborate joke by the way because some people you know will go oh it's just the first two and a half minutes of the movie and we're going it's not a spoiler but it absolutely is a spoiler except it's not because Jai Courtney doesn't die in the first two and a half minutes of the movie it was just a joke and he is very alive throughout the rest of the movie but just off screen where you can't see him he goes off to live on a farm he does where he's happy for the rest of his days but yes because I know some people do get annoyed about things like that and honestly if it was something that happened at the 30 minute mark I don't think it's fair game but I think two and a half minutes into a movie like this where he is fairly heavily telegraphed as dead meat, I think it's okay to say that.

1:11:36Chris Hewitt:But if you feel otherwise, then I'm sorry that Ben annoyed you. What? I said nothing. Like Reacher.

1:11:44Tim Roth:Like Reacher. Ben said nothing. I like that they've made this, though, and not just tried to remake Predator. But in that realm of, like, let's remix and reinvigorate these types of films rather than just remaking them, I think it's a step below Upgrade and The Guest, which I think are the upper tier of let's channel that 80s vibe.

1:12:07Ben Travis:In the same way, this is bottom shelf of blockbuster fodder. In the best possible way, it's the kind of stuff that you would rent when something like Poltergeist 2 was already rented. Oh, I'll get this instead. Sorry. When Poltergeist 2 was already rented. It's possible that I'm minding my own experience there because that literally happened to me. Why didn't they call it Poltergeist? Poltergeist! I went to rent it out. Unfortunately, somebody had moved it. You know, didn't know who. This is a Poltergeist joke?

1:12:38Chris Hewitt:Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it was. Three stars for War Machine. One star if you're a Jai Courtney fan. Right. Hellspells. Hello. Stifling a yawn. Please, just long enough to tell us about... This is a film whose title I forget, even though I've literally just written it down. Reminders of him. Paging Atlantis for a set. Of him. Some serious irony going on there. Reminders of him.

1:13:06James Dyer:Yes. So this is an adaptation of a Colleen Hoover novel, the woman who wrote It Ends With Us. Came out with Blake Lively, Justin Baldoni, A Million Lawsuits.

1:13:16Ben Travis:I've never heard of it, Helen. Was it in any way controversial or reported upon?

1:13:20James Dyer:No, no, it's fine. It's fine. But yeah, this is the latest adaptation of her work. and it stars Micah Munro as a woman who comes back to town after a while away. We learn pretty swiftly that she was in prison. It takes us a little bit longer to realize why she was there and she's trying to reestablish contact with her daughter who she has basically never met. She was taken away as soon as she gave birth and she has been raised by her paternal grandparents who are played by Lauren Graham and Bradley Whitford.

1:13:47Chris Hewitt:Oh, you like Lauren Graham.

1:13:47James Dyer:I do and I like Bradley Whitford, Lemon Lyman from Westwood. So this is all great. But she gets back to town and wouldn't you know it, there's a local hottie played by, interestingly, the star of him. It really is Reminders of Him. It's Tyreek Withers. Oh, yeah.

1:14:04Chris Hewitt:Him from him in Reminders of Him.

1:14:06James Dyer:Him from him in Reminders of Him. Yeah.

1:14:08Chris Hewitt:Hey, Siri, set Reminder.

1:14:10James Dyer:Anyway, he has a role in the life of her child. He's basically a surrogate dad slash uncle. he's basically the dead father's best friend. The father has died, you don't really realize for a little while exactly how. Sure, yes. And they totally fancy each other immediately because they're the best looking people in the film of appropriate age.

1:14:35Chris Hewitt:I hope that's a line.

1:14:37James Dyer:Hey, we're the best looking people around. Want to get together?

1:14:40Chris Hewitt:Of appropriate age.

1:14:41James Dyer:And then it's like, no, no, we cannot because circumstances divide us. Oh, no. So it's basically them sort of you know trying to work things out look this is this is an entire film which could have been solved by one sort of 15 minute conversation with everybody involved just sitting down and talking and you kind of just wish that they had sometimes they're both

1:15:02Chris Hewitt:I'm very confused about the plot so what the plot is she comes back

1:15:06James Dyer:she has been in prison because her boyfriend slash baby daddy died and everyone blames her I mean not without reason actually but anyway everyone blames her and has and she's trying to kind of re-establish herself and get into her daughter's life and nobody wants her near the daughter because she can't be trusted or whatever.

1:15:26Chris Hewitt:Gotcha.

1:15:26James Dyer:Yeah. So it's kind of a nothing though. Like it's just like, it's just, there's no there there except for the two of them being very beautiful and flirting a bit. It's for a different demographic to War Machine, but the effect is similar. You know, the effect is it's Friday night. I don't want to think. I just want to look at pictures appearing on a screen.

1:15:49Tim Roth:This'll do. This'll do.

1:15:51James Dyer:It's part of the this'll do cinematic universe. That's the energy. Like, it's not, it's not, I don't know. Look, there are a lot of romantic films that don't have a lot of plot, but this to me is one of the ones with the least plot that I've seen. And I just, I just didn't really care very much. I do think Micah Monroe, She's great. She's great generally. I don't think she's at her best in this film. Because she just doesn't really have anything to glom on to. This character is basically just really likable, but doesn't have any particular thing. Would it have improved things and zhushed things up

1:16:30Tim Roth:if he's constantly getting calls from the NFL and she is being relentlessly pursued by a terrifying entity that will stop at nothing to eviscerate her?

1:16:40James Dyer:I mean, metaphorically, that's kind of what's happening because he's a former NFL star. So if you want this to be part of the him universe, it genuinely could be. But he doesn't mention any sort of demonic killing sprees or whatever in his past.

1:16:53Chris Hewitt:But she is pursued by her past demons.

1:16:55James Dyer:Exactly, you see?

1:16:57Chris Hewitt:So he's going to star next in Him Follows.

1:17:00James Dyer:Yes. I do think he's good. I just don't think he's good in this film.

1:17:04Chris Hewitt:Oh, she giveth and she taketh away.

1:17:07James Dyer:No, it's not that he's bad, but there's nothing. Sounds like he's bad. No, his character is just like a blank, pleasant looking space who is very nice to everybody. Like there's no real conflict.

1:17:18Chris Hewitt:Anyway, we agreed with Helen and we have given us two official Empire stars. From reminders of him to How to Make a Killing, starring Glenn Powell. Glenn Powell and Margaret Qualley. Hell's bells.

1:17:35James Dyer:So this was described by the director at the screening I saw as a, quote-unquote, loose remake of Kind Hearts and Coronets, one of the great dark comedies of all time, an Ealing Studios masterpiece. It is actually, in my opinion, quite a, quote-unquote, tight remake of Kind Hearts and Coronets. So Glenn Powell...

1:17:56Ben Travis:What do you mean, tight?

1:17:56James Dyer:As in, it's quite faithful to the original.

1:17:59Ben Travis:Glenn Powell plays eight different people in this particular film.

1:18:01James Dyer:No, of course, he's in the other role, James, as I think you know. Obviously, he's in the Dennis Price role. James, come on.

1:18:08Chris Hewitt:Be serious.

1:18:09Ben Travis:The rookie era. The rookie era.

1:18:12James Dyer:Anyway, so this is, yes, Glenn Powell starring as a young man who was disowned at birth by his family because his mother got pregnant as a teenager, basically, and the rich family have cast her and, by extension, him out on their ear. I cast you out. I cast you out.

1:18:28Tim Roth:You're a clean, feedy, cruel boy.

1:18:30James Dyer:And he grows up and, through a series of unfortunate events, decides that his way to become prosperous and happy in life is to knock them all off one by one until he is the sole heir to the estate. Because there is an irrevocable will that means that a blood heir will inherit. So he just has to knock off eight other people and then they can't stop it.

1:18:52Tim Roth:Is that a spree or is that cereal?

1:18:57Ben Travis:That's cereal. I would say cereal, yeah. It just has an unconventional motive.

1:19:02James Dyer:Yeah. So this is written and directed by John Patton Ford, who has taken the unusual step, I think, of not casting one person as every single person in the family. So this is, I guess, the big point of difference between this and Count Hearts and Coronets. Plus, it's a modern day thing set in the US rather than the sort of Edwardian thing set in upper class London. You also have the wild card of Margaret Qualley's Julia, who is a sort of childhood friend of Glenn's Beckett. who has grown up to be very seductive, but to marry someone she thought was rich and is now on the hunt for someone actually rich.

1:19:41James Dyer:And then you have a whole laundry list, basically, of family members to be killed, led by Ed Harris as the patriarch of the bunch. This really is quite beat for beat, Kind Hearts and Coronets. Not all the kills are the same, but they're often very similar. So, you know, in Kind Hearts and Coronets, when the first murders happens in a rowing boat, basically going over weir, and so somebody is drowned that way, on this, it's a yacht. So they've obviously slightly updated the financial wealth available to the top 1%, but it's the same idea, you know, and it's the same kind of person in the family.

1:20:22James Dyer:it's very very similar in terms of the beats up until there's a couple of murders that are very different but really the the vibe is similar the the big mistake and i think the big point of difference here is that they've tried to make beckett more likable and i don't think that was the right decision i think you need a certain amount of cynicism for this story in this film to work and he is cynical and he does have these moments of trying to lean into it but uh they've They just don't want to get away from the fact that he's, you know, he's Glenn Powell. He's a very likable guy.

1:20:56Ben Travis:I was about to say, do you think it's a casting issue?

1:20:57James Dyer:I don't. I think he could do it. And I think the moments where they lean into it are really, really effective. But I think it's maybe that American thing of not wanting a full-on baddie as their protagonist. Like, you really need to go full, like, house of cards or something with this. You know, you need him to be pretty bad.

1:21:17Ben Travis:But I think these things work really well when you have, clearly, I mean, antihero is perhaps generous. You have a villainous protagonist, but they're made sympathetic because the people around them are so much worse. So it's all positional, isn't it?

1:21:34James Dyer:It is, and that can work. And that, I think, is what they're trying to do here. But I think that's a mistake for this particular story because I think it's much more interesting if he's a bit of a rotter and they're just clueless.

1:21:46Ben Travis:see I see this this weirdly the thing that kind of jarred with me on this is because he narrates this it's kind of very much from his perspective I found the narration to be quite prosaic and expository and a bit dull and I always think if you're going to have this kind of character who's inherently quite fun because he's villainous he's doing these things you know have a little bit of

1:22:06James Dyer:humor in the voiceover but that's kind of some of the cynicism that I mean is missing so like there's the great like a great line which I'm going to slightly misquote in the original is you know him going it's so hard to make a neat job of killing people with whom one is not on friendly terms you know and it's that kind of sort of coldness or just glibness that i think is kind of missing here like they're trying for it but i just don't think they can i don't think they can balance that with with the kind of character they're trying to create i always think that like for me the

1:22:38Ben Travis:gold stand for this is pen badgley in you on netflix who is it's just the most wrong and of wrong-uns, like he's a serial killing, stalking sex offender, but he's very self-effacing and very funny in the voiceover, and also the people around him are just dreadful, so you find yourself being carried along, whereas I think something was lost for me, and for me the voiceover honestly was the thing that kind of pulled me out of the movie, because I just found it, it just became quite grinding like some of the kills are quite good but I thought it's quite I don't know, it's quite boring it's honestly quite boring, and I think Glenn Powell is inherently charismatic and you do inherently sort of gravitate towards him because he's Glenn Powell.

1:23:14Ben Travis:And he has a little bit of a twinkle in his eye, which I think actually kind of works. But broadly speaking, I was just like, I don't dislike this character, but I'm also not entertained by him. He's not funny. He's not amusing. So I felt like I was just kind of almost being forced to sit through these events rather than enjoying them.

1:23:29James Dyer:I think that's not unfair. Look, I didn't hate this. I didn't have a bad time watching it. No, it was fine. I was just sitting there going, this is a lesser reflection of a better film. And I thought they were going to do something really interesting by the time they got to Ed Harris, actually. And I thought there was a nub of an idea there that I think John Patton Ford has tried to add in and do something very different to the original. And then they just didn't really go there.

1:23:54Ben Travis:I quite enjoyed, however brief it was, the Ed Harris sequence. Because that comes out of left field a little bit.

1:23:59James Dyer:Yeah, but everything else was just a bit sort of by the numbers. But I think that it is kind of what you're saying. They've made him more sincere. And he's not fun. He's not fun. And actually, it's weirdly less transgressive than the original, in which he was very, very clearly shagging two different women and torn between them. And in this, they have him be, again, a little bit more sincere in how he feels, and I don't know if that works.

1:24:21Ben Travis:I think the person having the most fun in this film is Margaret Qualley, without a doubt, and she's a delight when she's on screen. Who could have played all eight roles? Who could have pulled a Guinness?

1:24:30Chris Hewitt:Eddie Murphy. Yeah.

1:24:32Tim Roth:You say, who in this cast could play a character who takes on many personas and wears lots of disguises? that's that's Glenn Powell hit man

1:24:44Chris Hewitt:that would be honestly that would have been more fun the other answer of course is Pistachio Disguisey because he is the master of disguise okay so what did we give us one three stars three stars then for how to make a killing I think on that note that is it for this week's Empire podcast join us next week for more film related fun when we'll be joined by well it's project Hail Mary time folks so we'll be joined by Lord and Miller it's only Lord and Miller Phil Lord and Chris Miller talking about their new movie in which Ryan Gosling plays an astronaut but not a serial or spree killer I just want to clear that up beforehand anyway until then until we meet again until that suspicious occasion it is time to say goodbye to my three colleagues of such lethal cunning goodbye to the Geonosis Jesus himself no the Pop and Jay no absolutely not the spree killing Jew lover I mean okay it's James Dyer goodbye goodbye on the pilot TV podcast

1:25:52Ben Travis:on the pilot TV podcast yeah what's on what's on oh so many great things is it the Russells this week or was that last week no the Russells were last week oh you should listen to it again it was a good interview they were rustling

1:26:02Chris Hewitt:I was too busy being furious about the lack of Ronnie Hazlehurst oh That makes sense. Threw my phone at the Thames. Regretted it. Then drained the Thames with one mighty gulp. It's goodbye from Ben Travis. Goodbye.

1:26:15Tim Roth:I'm going to go and do my own Mount Rushmore of Wally characters so that I'm allowed Wally on my Mount Rushmore.

1:26:21James Dyer:Wally, Bernie, Eve.

1:26:24Tim Roth:The Cockroach. The Cockroach, yeah. Does the Cockroach have a name? I think it does. I'm going to look it up.

1:26:30Chris Hewitt:Hal. Hal? Big fan of Hal's this week. You love your Hal's, don't you? It's goodbye from Helen O 'Hara.

1:26:38James Dyer:Oh, boy. Hello. Toodaloo. Bye-bye. Hi, Helen.

1:26:43Chris Hewitt:We finished the podcast now. We finished the podcast again. Hello, Helen. Welcome to the Empire Podcast. How are you? It's nothing there. That would be the worst Groundhog Day ever. This week's question comes from our Discord channel, and it is a cracking question. It is about the Mount Rushmore of movie astronauts. First of all, what is an astronaut? how would you define oh good lord

1:27:05James Dyer:we're not doing it thank you okay

1:27:10Chris Hewitt:and it's goodbye from me I'm off to lock the doors and make these motherfuckers record this podcast again word for word we're gonna get it right thanks for listening see you next time bye bye