We've Started So We'll Finish (ft. guests Bradley Cooper & Will Arnett)

25:07But that's an interesting point, isn't it, with this question? Why would you put yourself through some of this trauma if you're re-watching? If you know a film is going to absolutely trigger you emotionally and have you blubbing. Oh, I like that, though. Would you like that? Yes, please. No, I do. I do go back to be honest for me cinema is all about how it makes me feel you know above all and everything and people ask me on my favourite films they're not necessarily what I think are the best films ever made they're what films push my buttons mostly emotionally and I will go back to films just so I can feel something just so I can feel alive and I don't care if it's to make me laugh or to make me happy or to make me sad you know it's just I like it you know there's a safety in it as well there's a safety in it you know yeah And there can be a catharsis, like you're saying.

25:57I think I've talked about this on the podcast before, but there was one time when I was really, really stressed out. I came home from a day at work. I literally put on Dead Poets Society to make me cry because I felt like I needed to cry. Which bit? At the end, when they all stand on the desks. Come on. I'm counting my cow. It's just, oh, I can't even. Yeah, I just knew it would make me cry and that that would help me kind of release all the pent-up stress of the day. I mean, having a good cry is quite nice sometimes. Like I say, within the safety of these things. I think, so horror films do that thing where they're contained fear, isn't it?

26:33Where the kind of executive part of your brain is in control still, but the emotional part of your brain feels the fear. So it's fear in a safe space. Whereas I often think like films that make you cry, the grief actually can be quite like, the sadness can be all-consuming, but it's just short-lived. Because when the film finishes, it disappears very, very quickly. but I find cinematic grief harder to deal with than cinematic scares so I genuinely do struggle to put myself through films after some which I know is going to get me the first 15 minutes of Up for example that actually I can rewatch because I think once you're attuned to that you can ride it out a little bit but ones that really upset me I don't tend to rewatch them that much weirdly once in a while horror films have made me cry there's something like when I get scared in a certain way you just start crying slightly sobbing I remember years ago I watched Paranormal Activity which I'd never seen before at home whether it was my girlfriend at the time and we were both watching and I was getting very scared it's a scary film Paranormal Activity it's really unsettling and I didn't want her to know that I was scared because I was trying to be cool and I sat there and I just very very silently and quietly started crying I could film myself let's say a single tear went down that's what it was like and I was just sitting there trying to look normal but slightly crying did she notice?

27:58are you crying Alex? this is why she was your girlfriend I don't know why you cry but it is something I could never do do you cry at that? I bet you do I cry when James does that no it kills me the end of Terminator 2 absolutely kills me thumbs up the thumbs up oh the thumbs up weirdly I'm thinking of Big Fish when you said that because it was one of the first films I saw with the Empire team and I was trying to be professional. And we were all just like No, no. I was like sitting there and I said Catherine who was the editor of the website at the time and trying not to cry and shaking silently in my seat with the effort of trying not to solve out loud.

28:37It's really Do you know the bit that really, really gets me and I've choked up even thinking about it because I really, really like Big Fish. I do not think it's a perfect film but I think it works And I think what it's saying, what it's doing ultimately is effective. And the scene at the end, spoiler for Big Fish, when Billy Crudup, the son, is at his dad's funeral and he's heard all these tall tales and all these bizarre stories that he takes with a massive, massive pinch of salt. And then at the end, he sees all the people he's been talking about turn up and they're like regular versions of the people he's told stories about and they've all come to support him and he's like, I don't know why.

29:12Yeah, it's really moving. Yeah, but that's the magic of it. It's like you don't quite know why it's affecting you so much. It's just... I think that was Tim Burton channeling his own grief over his own father's death. Similarly, actually, I mean, we just did The Princess Bride, but the Inigo Montoya scene gets me every single time. Which one? There's lots of Inigo Montoya scenes. When he says, I want my father back, you son of a bitch, and kills Count Rogan. Oh, that was not one of my questions. It is, and it wasn't, but it should... But like, that was... And Mandy Padinkin has talked about this.

29:41This was him, like, channeling his own grief about his father's death and metaphorically like stabbing the cancer that killed his dad in that scene. And now it still gets me. I feel like you, you know, some of that comes through. Some of that real life comes through. That's interesting. I'm a one-time crier. I'm very, I don't know I've ever been a two-time crier. I think once I know that a movie, what it has in store for me, I can laugh at comedies again, and I get sad at moments when people, you know, in sad bits of movies. Of course, I get sad, but I don't recall ever squirting a few. No film that made you cry.

30:18What about Wonder Woman 1984? That made you cry. Every time. I loved it. It was tremendous. I mean, God, let me count the ways. One more for me. Life Aquatic, an underrated film for me. I love that film. And do you all know it? With Steve Zissou. Yeah. The scene, again, at the end, where Bill Murray, at the end of his epic journey to go and find the Jaguar shark, goes down in a little sub, and he sees the Jaguar shark, which killed his friend years earlier, and he sees it and he just goes, I wonder if it will remember me. And all the friends and family, this found family in the submarine, just sort of put their hands on his shoulder and it absolutely destroys me.

31:04So these films are guaranteed to make me cry every single time. All right, thank you so much to Figo, No, the... What's the sorrow of Moldavia? Scourge of Capaccio. Scourge? Sorrow of Moldavia. Yes, it's Moldavia. I said Moldavia. Yes. There were some other questions that were sent in after I saw that question. We may get them next week or another time. Only one guest this week, so we're not going to do it right now. We're going to blunder straight into the movie news section. And this should be a short one because there ain't a lot, right? Yeah, that's right, Helen. so I'm going to allot the next 30 minutes into this bit as we discuss fantasy novels in an extended segment we like to call James and Helen bore Chris's tits off.

31:50Don Logan over there. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yes. No, yes. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Apple have optioned the works of fantasy author Brandon Sanderson, who is the most prolific writer, I think, in all of Christendom. Since we started this podcast, he's written five books. yeah 100 % insanely but crucially he's written a lot of fantasy series but they are I won't say all but they are generally largely mostly connected in a shared mythology which he calls the Cosmere so while they are different mythologies with different magic systems different ideas whether it be the Stormlight Archive Mistborn series Atlantis whatnot they are connected as part of a larger reality and there are moments to cross over Apple have options the whole of the Cosmere which is all of his stuff very very exciting yes Mistborn apparently is looking to go towards the big screen it's a trilogy maybe three films I'm not really sure it's three films right but and the Stormlight Archive which is his magnum opus that's going to streaming so that's something that's going to be a series probably the right choice for for that I mean again if they didn't I mean this is Amazon Amazon didn't finish Wheel of Time when they tried to do this epic fantasy on TV I wonder if Apple will be more successful in getting to you know the end Mistborn is a bit more manageable in that it is three stories but what's interesting about that is there is a massive time jump between each of the three.

33:11So one is kind of traditional medieval-ish fantasy, and then the next one is like cowboys. That's actually not the case. The first trilogy is fantasy, and then the subsequent novels that followed on from the trilogy, those are the Wax and Wayne books. But you know what I mean. Yeah, that's right. But they're all part of the Mistborn-iverse. They're all part of the Mistborn series, but that could be interesting and different. So I don't know. I mean, some people hate... The emphasis is heavily on good. Good. He sold a lot of books, not even counting the Wheel of Times that he finished. Yeah, which he did a great job with.

33:45He did a good job. Better. He did a good job. Well, yeah. I mean, hey, hey. Just because it was faster doesn't mean better, all right? But it was faster and more intense. And at least he can finish stuff, unlike certain... Very, very true. I mean, can he finish stuff? Absolutely. His gold-plated series, I believe, is generally held to be the Stormlight Archive which I have read there's going to be ten in that series he's written five of them there's going to be a break and then he's going to continue To say they are doorstops is if anything an understatement They're massive They're closer to breeze blocks Yeah They're extraordinary and the whole thing is it's gods and kings and great big manga swords and stuff It's a great series I love it It starts with The Way of Kings definitely worth reading Anyway guys Have I got time to go to the toilet?

34:28Absolutely We're wrapping it up What we're saying is Apple has this Apple tend to do good shows They are the best possible home for this. They are the best possible home for this. I hope they are as inventive with this as they were with Foundation, with Silo, with Severance, even. Obviously, that's not an adaptation, but you know what I mean. I'm excited. And I love that they're playing now in the kind of fantasy arena. And I think that's good. And yeah, you mentioned Wheel of Time. That was a travesty. But again, that was partly because Amazon turned their eye of Sauron towards the Rune of Power a little bit.

35:00Kill me. You're trying to wrap it up. You said that a minute ago. Yeah, and then we did. You didn't. You're still talking. The whole time you were talking, Chris looked like Jack Nicholson at the end of The Shining. Chris, if anything, you are odium in this particular conversation. That all sounds terrific. I can't wait for Santa Branderson's magnum opus to come to the small screen. Guys, what you have done is that you have mistaken your passion and interest in something for the larger listeners' passionate interest in the same thing. Chris would never do that. I would never, ever do that. How dare you?

35:41Treader dropped this week for Daredevil Born Again Season 2, which got me very, very excited, of course. We all love the MCU, so I was very, very excited about that. This, of course, is the sequel to the first season of Daredevil Born Again, which was the sequel to the previous three seasons of Daredevil. Okay, thank you. Yes, I think we can all follow that. In the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which began in 2008 with Iron Man. So anyway, I quite enjoyed this trailer. I liked seeing Jessica Jones again. Interesting to see the mayor of New York, question mark, if he still is, in a boxing ring. That's something that Mamdani hasn't tried yet, but we welcome it when he does.

36:15This is Wilson Fisk, Vanessa! Yes, of course. And I don't know, this looks fun. I'm intrigued. I still feel like the quote-unquote first season of this show was really a half a season. Yes. So hopefully this will give me the payoff that I deserve. This is the creative team who took over that first season and now they're fully unfettered. They have their druthers. Benson and Moorhead are the lead directors. And so therefore I think it'll be a more focused season of television than the last one. We still had lots of good moments. I'm a bit of an outlier. I thought that was a brilliant drama. I didn't feel the push and pull of the old stuff and the new stuff as much.

36:53I thought it was pretty meaty political drama. I can't wait to see what happens. I don't even need a trailer. I'm just all in. All in on Daredevil Season 2. Yes, good to see Jessica Jones. Kristen Ritter back as Jessica Jones. Jessica Jones, no John Bernthal as the Punisher there. She must be very upset about that. I am upset. I mean, like, what did I do? Do you know what I mean? Okay, I made a couple of tiny criticisms and they punished me like this. It seems unfair, quite frankly. How does that work? Now, my memory, again, as we've discussed, is slightly patchy. didn't this end on a Punisher note?

37:29It did kind of so how does so how do we not pick that up again? That feels weird. We will but not necessarily in this season of Daredevil I'm sure I mean I don't know if you know about the MCU but there's a whole massive connective fluid and there are lots of different shows and movies and they all connect to each other and you'll probably see Punisher again in another The Punisher will return in a interesting day. Well we will see him in Spider-Man brand new day but I thought he was still going to be in this. I thought he was going to be in this. bringing his fun R-rated killing ways to a PG-13 super friendly neighborhood web spinner man so fun that is an odd proposition isn't it it's very strange in the comics they do butt heads quite a lot and it works but whether does Bernthal have to temper the angle of attack so to speak because he's very committed to that performance and he's a very gruff guy in that and he'll snap Tom Holland like a fucking twig if he wants to.

38:26Yeah, I can't imagine he'll show up in that film smashing people's heads repeatedly against the wall and yelling the F word. Yeah. He might yell at once. I don't think Spider-Man will stand for that sort of thing. No, probably. I think he'd web his potty mouth shut. Probably. Yeah. That's exciting. It's coming out in March. Disney Plus only eight episodes as opposed to the 431 of the previous season as well. So that's good. Looking forward to that. Anything else you want to talk about that isn't from the fantasy shelves of your local... Oh, I don't know. It's definitely not a book, but there has been a picture, a couple of pictures, in fact.

39:02Only one, though. Oh, no. Oh, yes, it's a shame. There can be only one. Yes, Highlander. His Spanish peacock. His Spanish peacock. Henry Cavill as Connor McLeod of the Clown McLeod with a bunch of lanterns and a sword in Highlander, Jas de Halski's Highlander. Jas de Halski's Highlander. A film that I'm very excited about. When I interviewed Henry Cavill for the Pilot TV podcast, I asked him what type of sword his Connor McLeod would have, and he would not tell me, but it does appear to be in keeping with the original Highlander. Why would they tell you that? That's a stupid thing to tell someone.

39:34It felt like a small piece of information that I might be able to wheedle out of him. Yeah, that feels like a not-spoiler to me. What kind of sword do you have? That's not a spoiler. I feel that he could have just said a sharp one. Yeah, like if he said a Gladius, it would be a small change from the original, for example. I know people don't want plot spoilers, but I think it's okay to say the type of sword you would use to chop people's heads off. I'm not asking you whose head you're going to chop off in the third act, although that would be nice information as well. But, you know, they get so head up, don't they, about people taking their words and turning them into stories.

40:07There's an amazing running gag kind of on Comedy Bang Bang, which is an amazing podcast I listen to, where Tatiana Maslany goes on it as a regular guest and they just make up shit about She-Hulk and about how she's passed on She-Hulk and she's decided, you know, she's no longer part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe because she's had it up to here. And just bullshitting. Just, you know, a fucking comedy show. They closed the title. And websites are picking this up as if it's actual truth and putting it out there. Tatiana Maslany says she's done with the Marvel Cinematic Universe. And it's like, oh, come on.

40:43But because actors are so afraid to say anything interesting about their upcoming projects, I don't even bother anymore, pretty much. Because what's the point? We can't all be Woodward and Bernsteins like James asking about swords. Anyway, Highlander, this is a first sweaty looking picture and I'm all here for it. I've only seen the pictures very, very low res. So I don't really know. If you zoom in, he looks sweaty. Alex, you must be excited about this. Jan Stahelski's first non-John Wick movie. No, I don't care. Wow. I never liked Highlander at all. What's wrong with you? It's not very good.

41:20It's wonderful. Is it though? Yes. You're both right.

41:26Is it a guilty pleasure situation? Oh, it's great. I love it. I never feel guilt about pleasure, darling. But yes, it's not good, but it is fun. It's loads of fun. It's not not good. It's very much a product of its era. In a week when The Wrecking Crew is out, we can talk about films that are fun without being necessarily quote-unquote good. That's true. I just never got it. Loved the soundtrack. Didn't get that film. which just doesn't do anything for me. See, I don't like the soundtrack, but I love the film. So you think it's more of a kind of tragic... Does it make you cry? Does Highlander make you cry?

41:57No. When the Kurgan gets his head cut off? I don't know what you're talking about. That's the bit that makes you cry.

42:05All right, anything else? The BAFTA nominations. Oh, yes. All right, anything else? Okay, go for it, Hell's Bells. Well, it's similar to, but slightly distinct from the Oscars. So One Battle After Another is... Unlike other award ceremonies, I can speak with an English accent. Ah, Carrie Elwes coming back in again. This time, One Battle After Another is in the lead with 14, just ahead of Sinners with 13 nominations, and then followed by Hamnet and Marty Supreme with 11 each. Also, you know, some sort of local films doing better than, obviously, they did at the Oscars because they didn't go anywhere.

42:40But, like, I Swear has, I think, five nominations. Our Beloved Ballad of Wallace Island has three, as does Pillion. and even 28 years later is up for outstanding British film. So I thought this was a pretty respectable bunch of nominees, actually. I don't see any massive oversights. I think they're helped by having six nominees. So in many categories, they've been able to take all of the Oscars nominees and add somebody in. I'm not suggesting that that was their methodology, but that's pretty much the result in many categories. Yeah, I think for the most part, all the big ones are just aping what's going on in the Oscars and the Golden Globe.

43:17I don't think it's an aping because the Oscars went up by the time voting closed for this. But it's just, it's a similar approach. It's a similar bunch of voters. Yeah, and I swear, I swear, hasn't come out in America yet. So, I mean, technically, it could be up for the Oscars next year. We'll see what happens when I swear is released there. But yeah, it's up for six if you count the Rising Star Award, which I think you kind of can for Robert Aramaya. Yeah, well, that's what they're saying. but I'm you know I'm all for that film and it is very deserved of all of these nominations certainly at the BAFTAs and I hope it gets a few because it's amazing yeah good to see Ballad of Wallace Island although it should have been in every single category best VFX best VFX I do not know how people can look at that film and not nominate Tim Key for best supporting actor for that scene at the kitchen table alone.

44:16But these people are going to have to live with their decisions and live with their choices and try to find some way to sleep at night. That's it. An honorary Oscar next year, probably. Yes. For me? No, well, I mean, sure, but mostly for the film, I was thinking. Oh, I see. Okay, that would be good. There's not a lot of movie news out there at the moment, folks. But I do want to very, very quickly discuss Box Office. because you guys, you know, I know how much you love that. So I want to talk about two films and their performances at the US box office and worldwide, of course, and whether this throws the future of these franchises into doubt.

45:00I want to get your take on it. One is 28 Years Later. The Bone Temple has come out and has not done remotely as well as 28 Years Later. They had announced that work was beginning on the third movie. Alex Garland was going to write it. Killian Murphy was going to star in it. And Danny Boyle, we were presuming, was going to direct it. I am wondering if that is now in jeopardy. And I also want to get your take on the future of the Avatar franchise. Because Avatar, Farrah, and Ash, I mean, it is not a flop or a failure. But I think by the standards of this franchise, it could be seen as a disappointment.

45:42it is going to end unless it gets a very unlikely second wind with less than 1.5 billion dollars at the global box office that is significantly down on the second movie which was fairly significantly down on the first movie. Do you think that is going to jeopardize Avatars 4 and 5 as well? Have at it. Can we call something that's made nearly 1.4 billion to date a failure? No, that's why I said it wasn't a failure. Not a failure but it Chris is right. It is a sliding scale and also it's about profit, isn't it? I mean, we don't know how much these films cost and I think it's hard because he makes them all together.

46:20All he has said on the record recently is that... This is James Cameron, of course. James Cameron, sorry. ...is that they cost a metric fuckton of money. Now, I am assuming that is... We're talking hundreds and hundreds of millions for each one. Don't know. I don't know how they're quantifying it. I think you can absolutely be confident that this cost over$100 million. No, hundreds and hundreds but I mean... Yeah. they could each be the most expensive film of all time each time yeah they've denied that about Way of Water and Fire and Ash have they yeah but I don't know that I 100 % believe them so I mean it's a bit more of a grey area in terms of how they I would believe a little bit on this one just because there's an economies of scale aspect to these two films because they were made together a bit but they were filmed together but then they had their two plus years of post separately and that's really where the money goes with respect to the actors who I hope were compensated well.

47:16But I think that the... Yeah, I mean, I think the official number is something like 250 and I would be a little bit surprised. Yeah, plus marketing. I wonder if maybe the future is one more film instead of two. I think the fact that he said there are two to go might be the concerning thing because if it keeps going down... I mean, look, if this film ends up being 1.4 billion or whatever it's going to be, you know, you can... It's going to get there but I don't think it's going to get 1.4 billion. Yeah, but that's probably enough to make another one if they want to back him on that. And if he wants to do it, but maybe they'll change plans and that will be the final film and they'll give it a few more years and it'll be more of an event movie.

47:54I think that was one of the biggest problems with this one. It wasn't an event movie because it was just a sequel to the last one, which came out two or three years ago. There wasn't such a massive, massive excitement and anticipation behind it. It was just a sequel. And when you saw it, it was also pretty much just a sequel. I think they might still do it, but tighten the purse strings. I think it might actually cost$250 million next time. Because, Hadi, was his plan to do the next two together again, like he did with Wet Water Pirates? I believe so. Right. So it may be that they'll say, exactly as you said, rather than saying, all right, go ahead, make your two films, they might say, well, let's make one and see.

48:27But then again, you then are theoretically increasing the overall cost of doing it. I would shoot both with the actors, because again, that is not the most expensive part. This is pretty cheap. So I think you could shoot both, maybe. I think there'll be pressure put on to maybe say, can you do it in one? I think there'll definitely be pressure on to say, can you do it for 250 max absolute limit? And then I don't know if you want to lie to or not. That's a different conversation to me. I feel we'll definitely get another one. I feel like it's made enough money to very much wash its face. So I don't see them saying, no, that's it.

49:04This is the end of Avatar. The question will be, if he thinks that there's not so much of an audience for this stuff, how much does that incentivize Cameron to maybe step back from directing and just, you know, produce? Because obviously he's more hands-off with this than he has been previously. You know, he's not writing at all himself. He's not absolute control freaking it. And he has said, you know, there's a possibility that he might, you know, will he direct the next one? He hasn't 100 % committed to it. I think he's gone bouts and forwards on that. Yeah, he walked it back because he originally said he won't be, but then I can't see him giving these films to someone else.

49:37I just don't think he wants to. They're very close to his heart. It's a very personal project for him. So yeah, I agree with you, but then there possibly is a point where he's like, do I really want to trap myself for the next five years? Given his age as well, do I want to spend the next five years making two more Avatar films? Or do I want to do other things? I think we will see another one, because I think it's very clearly unfinished business for him. But that's always something like Ghost of Hiroshima, which he really wants to make. We haven't even talked about Bone Temple or 28 Years Later 3, but do you think there will be a 28 years later 3 James what's the what's the final box office for Bound Temple we don't know it's not final well final as in what's the current now it's currently on just under it's currently on 46.7 it'll be around half of what the first one did yeah but then it's half as good as the first one so that's fair oh whoa sorry better Jesus Christ sorry I'm gonna say they are gonna make it and I really really hope they I didn't enjoy the second film so much for all the reasons I've said because it was upsetting but I I really do want to see this third installment.

50:41We shall see. All right, James is maybe. Alex, yes or no? I think yes with caveats. First of all, 28 years later made 150 million, which I think was very good. I think it was very good. So this one at the moment is heading towards 50 million. It does seem like people are still going to see it. And I actually think for what this film is, which is a weird, gnarly, gruesome horror film, a very odd one, I don't think 50 million really is that bad I think it's pretty good for an odd little nasty little horror film my thoughts are actually because we all want to see this third film, I certainly do it was a great little ending little Killian tag at the end of Bone Temple my thought is Alex Garland is apparently on the case writing away, do they just conceive it a little differently do they make it a slight lower budget we don't know the scope of it, I don't think it has to maybe be as epic as certainly the first one was they could make it a smaller scale.

51:38They could do it for less. I think everyone involved probably wants to wrap up this trilogy. I think it deserves to be finished. And I just wonder if it becomes a slightly different cinematic proposition and they do it for less money. Yeah. I think they would be foolish to can it, if I'm honest. Because I think... We talk about box office because that's where we see the figures but also these things have tails and they can still make money on the long tail. going on TV, going on streaming, going on... It still exists, people. Physical media. And I think if you have all three of these planned films, that is a different proposition and that is a more valuable proposition for that long tail.

52:18Both of the previous films have been really well-reviewed. Anecdotally, people are watching them. People are seeking them out. People are still getting involved in this new trilogy. So I think it would be dumb as hell, if I'm honest to stop it now it would be a shame alright that's it for movie news shall we have our guests hurrah as you know we have pivoted to we're bringing out a new regular every week where we have other interviews but I am trying to go for a one guest policy on the Emperor podcast going forward and right now you are going to hear from Bradley Cooper and Will Arnett who are the director and co-writers and stars of a new film called Is This Thing On?

53:09which stars Will Arnett as a New York guy called Alex Novak who is going through a painful separation from his wife Tess played by Laura Dern and he's a bit lost a bit aimless and he's separated from his kids as well and he's hurting and one night he walks past a new york comedy club and decides to go in to sample the five but in order to avoid paying the cover charge at the door he is told that he can do so if he puts his name down to perform on an open mic night he's not a comedian he's never thought about being a comedian and he just does it to go in and have a drink but his name is called he steps up to the stage he is blinded by the light and he starts to say i think i'm getting in a divorce and starts talking about his life and is mildly funny and people seem to like him and he discovers that he has a knack and a burgeoning love of becoming a stand-up and as he begins to work on that he begins to heal himself and it maybe even leads to interesting and positive developments in his relationship with his wife as well now interestingly this is This obviously is a tale about a guy called Alex Novak, but this is a story that echoes very, very closely the real-life story of the very, very famous British comedian John Bishop.

54:34This isn't a John Bishop biopic, obviously, but there are a lot of similarities, a lot of parallels, and Bishop was involved to an extent with this movie. He's certainly been out there doing the promotional rounds with Bradley Cooper and with Will Arnett over the last few weeks and months, including the new issue of Empire Magazine, where I sat down and talked to him and Will Arnett together. And so when you know that, and you know a lot of the stuff, literally the opening line of Will Arnett's first ever gig, I think getting a divorce, was the opening line of John Bishop's first ever stand-up gig at a comedy club in Manchester.

55:09And there are various events throughout the film that have direct echoes, which makes it really, really fascinating in my eyes. And I was delighted when Bradley Cooper, for whom this is his third film as director, obviously after A Star is Born and Maestro. And Will Arnett, who is really taking a swing here, co-writing this and starring in this, came into London recently, and I was delighted to sit down and have a long natter with them, about 20, 23 minutes or so. And you're going to get the whole thing right now. That's the luxury of having one guest policy. Here we are, except these are two guests, so we probably fucked it.

55:46Here we are, Will Arnett and Bradley Cooper, to please enjoy. Bradley Cooper, Will Arnett, welcome to The Emperor Podcast. How are you both? Thanks for having us. Really good. Good, good, good. Excellent stuff. Let's start at the origin story of this movie. So the moment, I mean, Will, I started for you a little bit earlier, but I'm fascinated by that moment when you asked Bradley to take a look at the script. Not expecting that Bradley would say, I want to direct this. And I imagine you didn't expect that either. Oh, not even for a second. Yeah, I was just, I really don't know what happened. It was a very odd thing.

56:23You were making Maestro. Yeah. You were in that break. Yeah. You guys had like a - Six weeks. Six week break. And we were traveling back to the East Coast around Christmas time. Right? Something like that. And - Yeah, I remember I was upstairs in the top. And you asked, but you asked me what I was working on. I said, I'm working on this thing. We're kind of an impasse. It was more of a romantic comedy almost at that point. Yeah, yeah. And I said, I just don't worry. And you said, send it to me. I'll take a look. And I mean, you know, who wouldn't send it to him to try to get thoughts? You know what I mean?

56:53If you're making a movie, like who else would you send it to? And yeah, you FaceTimed me from the top of the real room there. Yeah. And said. I think it was him just describing it like, yeah, it's about a guy named John, who was based on John Bishop. And he walks into a bar. He sort of told that plot point. Yeah. And then he starts doing stand-up comedy. I think it was just that that's that's what piqued my interest him the idea of Will doing that oh wow that's interesting can I read it and then and then like just images started pouring into my head and I started talking to him about it and then I just couldn't couldn't shake it and and I thought well maybe is there a world where maybe I you would be open to like doing this together that's interesting and and because it was a searchlight in UK not even in America and uh but I just done Nightmare alley with searchlight so i knew all those guys really well and it just all that i mean that's really also why i was able to come together so fast is that uh the relationship that i had yes and have and it just it was really a weird thing it felt like we were just on a ride honestly like even the fact of me asking him what he's working on that's not really the nature of our conversation you've never really had that conversation before we don't really show each other stuff we don't really talk shop in that in that way yeah um because for people who don't know you've known each other for her for how like over 27 years yeah you were your friends you were neighbors yeah we're neighbors at one point and then and then i forgot but like yeah we've worked together twice before yeah yeah i know well you clearly made an impact i know on each other we both forgot yeah yeah because somebody asked like early on i'm like no and i'm like wait what am i talking about the rocker the comebacks yeah let me show you pictures of the freak yet in this it's Certainly not in this dynamic and not this intensely.

58:43Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah. But yeah, as young actors, yeah, we were lucky enough to work together. Amazing. Because I imagine as friends as well, you have that dynamic of, do I want to ask a friend to look at my script? Because that's something, you know, I've done things like that in the past. I asked him. Well, he said, let me take a look at it. Yeah, yeah. There was no like, it all came from me. But I think you could tell that I described what it was, But I was also at this point, Mark Chaplin, at that point, there were a lot of, there were people who wanted us to make it more of a romantic comedy.

59:17Yeah. And we weren't sure. We just weren't, it just, it ended up this place. It was kind of neither here nor there. It still had the underpinnings of John Bishop's sort of origin story. Yeah. But the rest of it, we hadn't honed in on what that was. And it was Bradley that really, really identified that we needed to understand who these people are, what the relationship is, get into all that stuff and see this transformation and see this. All that stuff was Bradley saw that early on. And the first thing he said is, I see your face on stage filling the screen. That was like the first thing you said.

59:59Yeah, yeah. That was the first image. Yeah. And then he but then all this other stuff and they just had all this other stuff. I think we need to do it like this, and I want to rewrite it and do it like this and go here. And Mark and I were like, freaking great. Yeah. And as you can imagine, as Bradley said, we were at Searchlight UK, and we were just kind of there, and let's see what happens. And we thought maybe one day we'll go out to directors once everybody agrees on the script, and nobody was agreeing on the script or anything. And once Bradley says they want to do it, and he ended up calling the guys at Searchlight in the U.S.

1:00:34who he'd just done Nightmare Alley with. And all of a sudden, I've got Dave Greenbaum, Matthew Greenfield calling me like, all right, let's get together. This thing's happening. And we're like, oh, this thing's on like that. And so we were the beneficiaries of that, of Bradley's interest, because of everybody's excitement around him as a filmmaker, which, of course, is incredible. John talked about that yesterday. John Bishop had mentioned it. just that idea of when somebody, at risk of embarrassing you, dude, of somebody of, you know, a filmmaker like Bradley comes in and it changes everything.

1:01:11The lights go green very quickly. The lights go green and they go green because the quality goes up. The script became something else. It became what it ended up being. Every aspect of it just, you know, all boats rise with a high tide. Bradley, when you read that script for the first time, you're taking this six-week break from Maestro, Star is Born, a couple of years before that as well, of course. Both of those are about the creative process, about artists and about relationships, artists in interesting, troubled relationships as well. And as you're reading this piece, you're thinking, oh no, I'm being dragged in again.

1:01:52They've got me. They've got me again. Were you almost reluctant initially to explore another part of the process? You know, it's so funny, like, I never even thought of that. It never even occurred to me that there was a connection about that. Because I didn't see, I never saw, I mean, yeah, like, there was no idea of performance. It was more about the way we started talking about it. It was more of his just doing something that made him feel uncomfortable, but there was a yearning for it and doing something that pushed him out of his comfort zone. And then if he keeps doing it and working at it and then becoming more comfortable, that was the idea.

1:02:35And that's when we really shifted away from John Bishop, who, you know, sells out the O2 Arena. And it was much more about just the process. You know, it could have been him joining a chess club or a swim team or, you know, in my mind. I didn't consciously really even think about that there's a connection. Yeah. Well, what's funny is, you know, if you think about your film, if you look at Bradley's films that he has made. The through line is human connection and relationships. And romantic or not, people, right? These characters who are living, who have these great stories. But what is that? And for me, I think, and I'm guessing for you, the stories that really resonate the most, the things that stick with you are, that's all we have on this earth are relationships with other people.

1:03:28And those are the things that draw us in. And those are the things that we can identify with in a way. And I know that you've made other films and told other stories that have these really compelling, rich characters who are having these very intricate and really genuine relationships that people can relate to because that's what we all have. If I were to ask you to describe your relationship with your family or your wife or your kids or whatever, you couldn't do it in a sentence because it's very nuanced. It's very nuanced. you know and and that's the interesting part and and and i think that you've got a it's got a really you know a very open mind and a keen eye and on on really getting in there and telling that documenting that and paying attention to that stuff it's those are the things that draw us i think also maybe i did the real just thinking about right now the reason why i never really connected because right away i thought oh the comedy scene like like like that culture which Which is so different from the symphonic world and then the rock world.

1:04:32And it's not music per se in the same way. But really, it was like that excited me. I was like, I'd love to explore this world that I feel like I have a handle on from just my love of it and how many years I've spent immersing myself in that world. So that was the draw, too. I was like, oh, to be able to like put that on screen the way I've experienced it, the way I think that, you know, hopefully I could cinematically convey it in a way that an audience can feel what it's like to be in those places and that culture, those people. Because it's such a specific, unique thing. I mean, the whole thing of like, you know, comedians, then congregating, like all that is what I've experienced for all of the, you know, the 20 years I've gone to the cellar.

1:05:15I've always loved that whole thing that you're up here talking about what just happened and people are shuffling down. and you can see they come back up and they're talking about what they just did and then the other person shuffles down it's such a crazy thing yeah and then you all then two of you peel off and go around the corner to the next one and then the next one then you migrate back to that place at the end of the night it's a really crazy uh world that that if you're not there you don't really know you're like at least i wouldn't know you know just watching you know rodney danger fields like new year's eve special every year on a television as a kid i didn't realize what that culture was like.

1:05:50No respect.

1:05:54By the way, it's funny. His first two films are about artists who are really at the top of their game, and he decided to make one about a comedian, an artist who's not very good. Thanks, man. Will. I got the guy. I got the guy. Will, I know what we can do with this. We're going to make him suck. You are perfect for this. And he gets a little better, but not brilliant. Not much. And every character keeps reminding him. Alex is available for weddings. It's my favorite thing. Oh, yeah. Then a single on Jordan. You're not very good. You wish you would. Oh, no, I know. He crushes it. He's available for weddings.

1:06:38And, of course, you had to replicate that in your prep for this because you were doing so many gigs. You were doing so many open mic spots. And first of all, people had to get past the disconnect of, that's clearly Will Arnett, not Alex Novak. But sometimes you had to deliberately suck, right? I mean, that must have been tough. Not by choice. That was true bombing. There were times it was not by choice. I was telling you, do you remember, there were a couple of things. A, yeah, one night, for us famously, went killed. We thought we were on top of the world. We'd come upstairs. We're at the Olive Garden.

1:07:13i mean we were so drunk with the with the joy of how much he killed him i mean you would have thought sure prior just did just five minutes and we're talking about like we're going to direct the madison square garden special we're going to go to netflix you know they're going to give us the world for this 10 minutes later we're just down walking down the opposite way down the same street having done a second set laughing our asses off at the ridiculous conversation we had going to the second set. Because I bombed. The exact same material. The exact same material. Tim was there, and it's only Bradley and our friend Bob at the back laughing.

1:07:47And they're the only ones. And the other ones, not even like, and just, just no reaction from the audience, which eventually becomes funny when you're up there because it's so fucking crazy. But, so that would happen. And I was reminded of there was a night where we did one of the sets of, well, to answer your question, yeah, whenever we would go out and depending on the set we were doing, oftentimes especially if you're doing working on the first set it's awkward you know you're saying i'm getting a divorce you know and people would kind of chuckle and we would always sort of like the five minutes would be like a composite of all the sets yeah and sometimes a lot of different jokes from different sets yeah it was all together like a mashup each time but we'd had that one there was a one saturday night and it was around the corner at the uh fat black pussycat.

1:08:34Fat black pussycat. And I remember we did some stuff and we had some jokes. Remember, we had a bunch of those sort of side jokes that were too good for Alex or it wouldn't work. And so it was kind of dry and the audience, and I was standing there and I was kind of standing in front of the mic and they're sort of like chuckling, whatever. And I had this moment, I just decided like, I'm going to try some stuff. It was kind of the first time to end up using of that shift of when Alex has more confidence. And I got the mic off to stand it. I moved the microphone and i just started going into some other material just to try and the feeling of winning the crowd back was so exhilarating was that at the one uh where she there's the balcony yeah that's right i remember that yeah so the scene where jill's up top that's yeah it was there that when yeah i remember that and that's where then will because will was hosting it and will was hosting it and it just felt like a yeah it was awesome shift happened yeah and then you guys riffed together he went up and that's why i was like we got to put that in the movie and in the film that's where Alex dries up for the first time really no that's where he when he leaves the birthday party oh right yeah yeah yeah yeah how you doing tonight yeah I'm good and he takes the mic off and he's talking you're like whoa and then he gets lost in the moment of talking about the radiologist coming to pick up his wife and he tries that material he was working on at home about the dad bod yeah so he veered away from his set and then he got lost yeah and that's when he goes up to her.

1:09:56Yeah. Oh my God. Bradley, did you want to, you know, become a method director and try this, this stuff out? The, the exhilaration of the crowd winning him over. I mean, I just stand up for a second. I love being the, the man, the person in the shadows. Just watching. Yeah. But it's interesting because, you know, one of the things that, that, that permeates through all your films, uh, stars, born Meister, and obviously now this is an absolute commitment to, uh, fidelity, like the concerts in Star is Born feel like, the soundscape feels like you've actually been to a concert, which isn't always the case with a lot of movies about concerts.

1:10:36Obviously, the incredible sound work you've done on Maestro as well. And here as well, I mean, it feels like you're at a comedy club. The audio, the way you're cut away from Alex to a wide shot, the audio will be slightly different, but it'll still have that sort of echoey vibe going on. That must have been incredibly important to you. I mean, I love the mixing process and I've been lucky enough to work with the same team for the most part for all those movies, even dating back to American Sniper and Joker, Dean and Tom and Dane. And we had a new guy, Jason, who was incredible this year. um but no i mean it's like painstaking because you know the the mechanics of it is you you know steve moore who's the sound mixer on set is wonderful and he he mics everything and that's where we're able to have overlapping dialogue because we he's so many channels but you know you have to honestly recreate it you know uh in a huge way and it's very delicate but we have that template that we've had you know that we we captured and it's all and this movie was all about like not having such clean dialogue you know having it be so it was almost like having to unlearn what it is to sort of in a very sort of classic way mix a movie you must unlearn what you have learned you know it really was like that and we and because i we know each other so well the mixers and i we were able to talk about it before i even started shooting the movie like this is what it's going to be like this is to for us to all get our heads around uh and that process was very much like the shooting and the writing.

1:12:09You know, we tried so many different things. And James Newberry, the composer, was incredible. And working with him on that, you know, yeah. But we spent a lot of time with an incredible crew on the mixing of all those movies. And it must have felt for you as well, Will, like you were literally really there doing stand-up. Yeah, what's incredible, I never worked on anything before where usually anytime you shoot something that's like a big crowd scene, for instance, You know, how many times I've worked on TV shows or something where they said there's going to be a wedding scene. You're like, that's going to take forever.

1:12:43It's going to be a nightmare. B, or a club or something. You're going to have everybody's in the background miming. And then they start the music and then they cut it out. Or you have to shout or whatever. In this, Bradley creates the environment there. And everything happens in real time. And there's no faking it at any point. So everything is real. and the audience that's brought in that's in the they're sag actors but they're they're there to react in any whatever way they want and and they can react and talk and do this and not react or not react the thing was just to behave the way that you would and coming in the club upstairs at the olive tree all of it happening the band really playing as we're coming in they're walking through having to shout i have bad hearing having to say what can't hear whatever it is all of that happening at every point was just amazing.

1:13:38So there's no faking going on in that way. It gives you that reality at all times. Bradley, one of the first things you said to Will was, I see your face fill in the frame. Yeah. When he walks on stage and says, you know, I think I'm getting a divorce. And then you actually, what was it like filming that moment? Was that the first thing you did in terms of the standup? It was one of the first, the first week of shooting it was a 33 day shoot and the first seven days were all at the cellar and outside so that's we did all of the stand-up within that first week that was the first and that was probably yeah yeah the first set was started up at the olive tree and it's because it's one shot and then all the way down to that set yeah um for me it was so gratifying because you know some things you know some things don't last from your very first idea visually and that was the first idea and it's exactly what we wound up doing for the film.

1:14:32And we had the benefit of testing a lot. Well, I was going to say that. So that first day, we had tested a lot. Oh, yeah. We'd rented a camera with Matty LeBoutique and AC, and we would just go around the streets. And Liz, the manager, allowed us to go and just try stuff out down in the cellar. This is before production. Because we'd extend the stage a little bit so that we could stand and actually be able to have the 40-millimeter lens. And also, he's so tall, like just finding exactly how to make all that work. It was really helpful to have that time. Oh, my God. There's no way we could have done the movie in 33 days.

1:15:04Just as an actor, understanding the relationship that Bradley wanted to have with the camera and me in that camera testing process helped so that when we started to get into that, it was really seamless. It wasn't like I had to get used to on the day. We were already, you know, in the camera testing, we did stand up there, you remember, on those days. Yeah, of course. And where the looks are, you know, how close it is and blah, blah, blah. And in a lot of ways, he did me a favor because he got me used to what the language of the filming was going to be. But watching him be able to be that free and such confine, we were talking about this the other day, you know, because the whole idea is you see Alex for the first time totally despondent head on where we find him at the beginning of the movie.

1:15:45And then you don't see him head on again until he says, I'm getting a divorce. You know, so from that for the next 15 minutes, it's all profile and three quarter, mainly profile. Yeah. And even when he got on there, I didn't want him to look until he said divorce. So he's on stage for quite a while and just watching Will as Alex organically do that. Because if you see it again, you'll see he's like looking here and here and then he landed. I'm getting a divorce. And it's like, boom. And to be that was something I really wanted to try to achieve with a lot of fear from the studio. that you're your lead character you're not going to really see them until 12 minutes in but but the hope was like you're not aware of it as an audience member cerebrally but emotionally once he's looking at you you you feel like he's being more vulnerable but it's just by the sheer nature of we can actually see his face also jesus and but to watch him be able to do that within that the composition was really so thrilling for me on the day because he knew it we didn't really talk about that but he knew because we talked about it for so much and we're hurt but just and that was you know that's all from the top of the bar down you know there's no cutting and will you got this yeah it's a narrow target yeah yeah it was a narrow target there's a lot it was a lot to it was a lot going on and and yet again the i think that i obviously i trusted bradley and i understood we had talked a lot about you know we had the benefit of talking through the script process and through the development of and through rehearsal and all this stuff of what that is.

1:17:18And even in the dinner scene before that, prior to that with Balls and Christine and all that, you know, always encouraging him, you know, don't, you know, be three quarter. Like, so he had to be conscious of that, you know, knowing the composition and making sure not to turn full, you know, a very technical thing to make organic. I'm just intrigued, Will, by the comparisons between yourself and Alex in terms of pushing yourself in the way that other people regard you as well. I know you've talked about this in other interviews, but being seen as a largely comedic actor. The parallel for me, which I realized that Bradley knows, is that it dawned on me when we were making it that this experience that Alex was having as a stand-up, I was having as a person making the film.

1:18:03Yeah. And it was really profound. I was living on Sullivan Street, and I just remember coming back and being there, and I was alone. And I was in New York, and we were doing this thing. I felt quite vulnerable. I didn't have, I was there by myself. I didn't have my kids. I didn't have anybody we were making. And it was a vulnerable experience doing these really tough, vulnerable scenes, but doing with this guy who I love and it felt very different and very raw. And then I just, I remember sitting and I had this couch sort of in the, this like little two seater in the back of behind the kitchen.

1:18:36And I just remember sitting down after going and dawn on me, like I'm having the same kind of experience in my own life. that alex is having through this thing and it was really profound we talked about it yeah i mean we knew we were doing we were doing something something was happening just because this year like at the end of every day man like it was like getting off of a athletic field after like a long game you know we were just spent spent you know but then you go home and you can't shut the the engine off so then we would talk when we got home about the whole day and then tomorrow and then But it really was like, it was wonderful.

1:19:11And then Bradley would text me at 7.30 and go, I'm coming over for coffee right now. Yes, that's right. So we'd have six-hour breaks from each other. But, you know, I remember saying to Bradley once, more than once, doing like a really intense scene or like an emotional scene or a vulnerable scene. And Bradley would come up and we'd talk about what that is. And he'd say, just breathe. And he'd just breathe. Get through it. And we'd sort of talk away and we'd do the scene. And then he'd look at me and they'd sort of say, God, Bradley, we'd take the camera off. and he'd look at me and he'd kind of go like, yeah.

1:19:41And then I go, and he comes over, do you remember what I said? And I go, it's hard, right? And I go, yeah, is it always like this? And he goes, always. Always. It's always hard all the time. Yeah. And I was like, wow. Because I'd never done anything like this. Wow. Yeah. You got the bit between your teeth. Do it again. Immediately. It's hard, right? Let's go again. Let's go again. Precisely. Yeah, absolutely. Guys, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thanks, man. Thanks, Bradley. Thanks for taking the time. That was great. Thank you. Okay, that was Will Arnett and Bradley Cooper talking about Is This Thing On?

1:20:19Jimbo. Hello. It's time to review this film in the review section. Well, I am the comedy expert. Why have I come to you? Why have I come to you? Okay, Jimbo, tell us as best as you can your reaction to the film Is This Thing On? That tries to make me laugh. Except it doesn't really, does it? No, it doesn't actually. And I think that's one of the most surprising things about this film because it's maybe not what you think because the logline of it, like guy going through a divorce, stumbles onto the stand-up circuit and finds he enjoys it, paints a picture of a very different type of film, like an overtly funny film, one that's very rooted on the stage and stand-up comedy and the evolution of his act perhaps.

1:20:59That's not what this is. This is a relationship journey, it's an emotional journey and it begins with their marriage having reached its end point after 20 years, where it simply becomes stale and unworkable. And Alex Novak, obviously played by Will Arnett, and his wife, Tess, played by Laura Dern, just decide to go their separate ways, split custody of their two sons, but still maintain their friendships and be cordial. There's no great rift. And he, as you say, stumbles into the stand-up comedy club, gets up on stage, and doesn't tell any jokes. I think what he does is he has this raw, relatable honesty that he's going through this shit and he's just working it out on stage with quite a funny turn of phrase.

1:21:39And to be fair, it's a very, very friendly crowd. But they laugh because they understand. It's relatable. They feel the truth to it. I think that's what resonates with them. That's what makes it act so good. And it's why he becomes a good comic the more he kind of does it because of the honesty, I think, of his... Because it's almost confessional. Every new thing that happens to him in this journey of divorce, he just goes up and talks about. And he feels like he's freewheeling it. and then he starts taking notes and then he kind of works into a, you know, some semblance of a routine. But those sequences, those stand-up sequences for me aren't really the spine of this.

1:22:11It's the interactions with Dern and the kind of amorphous evolution of their kind of post-marriage relationship is the crux of this film. And it rings so true. It's so nutty and emotionally complex and constantly in flux because you've got two characters who know each other so well but don't really understand who they individually are. She in particular is having a real, she was a professional volleyball player, and now she's in a situation where she no longer does that, and she feels like she's totally lost her identity. And his attachment to her previous self almost becomes a point of contention between them.

1:22:47And so she's discovering who she is, and he, through this stand-up routine, starts to discover who he is. They rediscover the light and the joy inside themselves, and then that shapes who they become to each other. and there is a wonderful, wonderful scene in this where she witnesses his stand-up for the first time and it is raw and it is funny and it is painful and it is heartbreaking and the face acting that she does emotionally in that scene is wonderful. And that really happened. Yeah. I mean, even if you take out the fact that this is based on a kind of a, like certainly inspired by this true story, it's just so beautifully raw and real and just the two of them discussing what they mean to each other that and discussing where they've come, where they've been and where they could go, it's riveting.

1:23:32And so even though you don't actually spend that much time, really, relative to the runtime, on stage with the comedy, just watching them feel out what their future relationship could be is glorious. I thought this film was wonderful. I really, really, really enjoyed it. Bradley Cooper, I would say, is the most overtly comedic thing in here. He steals this kind of very humorous role for himself, which is a lot of fun. But yeah, I thought, I mean, it's done and on out, and he's just He gives spectacular sad sack and he's so good. He's so good in that role. He's brilliant here. So I thought he had a real sincerity to it and I loved it.

1:24:05It's not gag funny, but it's honest and it's relatable and it's very amusing as well. Bradley Cooper is playing, if I remember rightly, a character called Balls. Yeah. Which is never explained. Never explained. It is never explained. Never explained. We all have that one friend, right? We all have that one friend. Sometimes I host a podcast. Hi. I like this. maybe a bit less than James did, but I liked it. It feels a little bit shaggy and unformed at times. Oh, soids! Yeah, but I guess that's going for the sort of reality, slice of life kind of stuff about it. I quite enjoyed Kieran Hines as his dad as well.

1:24:41I actually thought their relationship was really nicely portrayed. But yeah, I liked it. I just maybe wasn't quite as invested. I liked it a lot. I mean, I don't disagree with you. It is shaggy here and there. I think Bradley Cooper is really fun in it, and he's very good in that role. But the supporting characters in this film, played by him and Andra Day, I think, are really... John Hayes as well. John Hayes, yeah. They're a little stretched. I mean, they should be there because it's about the inner lives of these characters and their relationships more than it's about stand-up comedy. But I think they try a bit too hard to turn them into, you know, flesh and bone characters, supporting characters.

1:25:21don't really care about them so much. And I don't think that is completely successful. But it doesn't really matter because that's not what's really important. What's important in this film is Will Arnett and Laura Dernot and they are magical in it. I think, by far for me, the film of Bradley Cooper is that I've most enjoyed after Star is Born and Maestro, which were both, you know, going for epic in their own way. You know, big, broad, sweeping films with big, meaty themes. This is an about turn. You know, it's a smaller thing. It's, I don't want to say slight because it feels like it's not a slight film to watch.

1:25:52It's actually quite a lot going on and a lot to chew on. But he directs it really beautifully, I think. There's a real sort of on-the-go breezyness to it and an intimacy. I don't know if it was filmed all single camera handheld, but it certainly feels like it. You're really in people's faces. Really? And you feel like you're in these clubs. I think not just about the relationship, it's about the community of stand-up comedy and these friends he suddenly forms around him who are really encouraging and really welcoming. and you really get a sense of what that little subculture is like. And there's almost a fly-in-the-wall quality to the film and it does work emotionally.

1:26:31It's very touching. It is funny in a sort of gentle way and I just thought it was quite delightful, really. You're right. It doesn't feel as kind of try-hard as Bradley Cooper's previous films and I don't mean that as insultingly as it probably sounds but there was a sense of we are going for big in the last two films and to be honest, we are going for Oscars. And this doesn't actually feel that way. It just feels more like, oh, here's an interesting story. Let's play with this. Yeah. I think what's great about the fact that the John Bishop of it all is it's not the John Bishop story. It's a very small part of the John Bishop story.

1:27:02It's the beginning of his career and it's about his relationship with his wife. It certainly doesn't, you know, show him playing arenas and it's not like his ascent as a stand-up comedian, which is great. It's a very focused story. Well, we gave this one four stars. It's four stars then for Is This Thing On? How's bells? Hi. It's time to shelter with Jason Statham. Gosh. Yeah, this is his film. So this one is directed by Rick Roman Waugh. Well said. Thank you. I usually stumble over that. Okay, is that right though? Yeah, Rick Roman Waugh, but sometimes I say Rick Woman Waugh. Oh, right. Like I'm in Life of Brian.

1:27:42Fair enough. This is, oh my goodness. Jason Statham is once again a retired killer, this time someone who worked for the government. He's highly trained. He was on the SBS and all sorts of things. And he is now living on a remote Scottish island, we are told, keeping a lighthouse. The only contact with the outside world is the man and little girl who deliver his groceries weekly. And wouldn't you know it, she gets stuck there after a storm and that's just when his enemies decide to attack. So he has to go on a run with this little girl, Jesse, who's played by Bodhi Ray Brethnack from Hamnet. And he's up against all the forces of a, you know, evil government agency who are after him.

1:28:25This film also stars Bill Nighy. Daniel Mays is in it as an old confederate of his. Naomi Aki is wildly underserved as one of the people in the sort of operations room who's trying to track him down. In a completely different film. I mean, just could not be more wasted, if I'm honest. not in terms of she's drunk, in terms of like she is not well used by the film. But this is really just about Jason Statham being a big old hard man once again and wearing a fishing jumper very similar to James's current jumper. Thank you very much. You're welcome. And being on the run with this little girl and trying to keep them both alive.

1:29:01I had fun. Kicks a lot of people. But it's in no way good. I mean, it's not... Whoa, it's in no way bad. Yeah, like Highlander. Come on. No, but like it's not like the script is kind of defaults to the dumbest possible reading of many, many things at many, many points. There are so many scenes where he could absolutely put this little girl at ease by saying one simple thing and he just doesn't. You know, there are so many... He's too stoic. You don't understand the pain that he is suffering. Oh my God, it's so annoying. It's so annoying. I just... Like, I have fun because I just was laughing at it.

1:29:38I think I was not laughing with it enough. so I just I find it a little bit frustrating in the end what did you give it? I gave it two two? it was look it was a high two it was two three borders but I just couldn't I couldn't see my way clear to three you have a problem with the geography of this film don't you? I did have a little bit of a problem so they have this there's an all powerful kind of algorithm that can like basically find you anywhere in the world at any point you'll never guess who the bad guy is but if you're in a car driving from Scotland to London Scotland You will be completely invisible.

1:30:11And I don't think that's the case at the moment, never mind if there's an all-powerful algorithm, blah, blah, blah. So I just... Takes the back roads. I don't think he does. He's not a back roads kind of guy. He's like a motorway dude. I don't see Philip's guy's car. Shh, shh, shh. We don't need to know about that. That's the kind of question I had. And this is small issues. This shouldn't be a big thing, but just... Does he kick people in the face? Yes. He does have a really good... Does he shoot people in the arm? Yeah. Yes. He does have some good fight scenes. And in one of them, he's wearing an exceptionally great cardigan.

1:30:47So, like, I do give him bonus points for that. Great, great cardigan. It's the Stathes film again. It's the Stathes film again. And if you like the Stathes film, then this is for you. But Helen gave it two stars. Two stars then for Shelter. Alex. Yeah. Tell us about Nouvelle Vague. Nouvelle Vague is so far my favorite film of this year. I know it's only January still, just about, but I've seen quite a few films already this year. And this, for me, is so charming. It's as charming as cinema gets, I think. It was absolutely joyous. So this is Richard Linklater's film about the making of A Bout de Souffle, a.k.a.

1:31:28Breathless, in Paris in 1959. The Goop one or the Sean LeCardard one? The Richard Gere one, yes. This is Richard Linklater doing the making of Richard Gere's Breathless. Phew, thank God. except it's not so it's black and white it's French it's subtitled he is going for it I mean it's not much more plot it's just about how this this prima donna genius who'd not made a film before right he was a film critic and he's been busting to make he's been busting to make a film for a while he's seen his contemporaries do it to great success and he's like alright I'm going to do it and I'm going to do it my way and everything you've told me about how to make a film, forget about it.

1:32:10And I'm just going to sort of do what I do from day to day. And what the film does so well is really convey the spirit of the man, the spirit of, you know, this cast and crew, this sort of gonzo guerrilla movement. It's such a fun, mischievous, playful, like I say, utterly charming film. I was just like, I think I must have been like grinning for the whole. I sat with you and it was just absolutely delightful. And Goddard in it is who played by Guillaume Marbeck. Guillaume Marbeck. Guillaume Malbec, thank you very much. He is so perfectly impish. He is like charmingly and annoyingly exuberant.

1:32:46He's such a dickhead and you just love him. You love him. You love him. He is lovably dickish. But he's clearly a brilliant maverick. And some of the cast, including Zoe Deutsch's Gene Seaboe, do not necessarily sanction his tomfoolery. They won't have it. But he tries everyone's patience. but they're like, he's mad, this is all going to be awful, but actually maybe he's a genius and this feels quite exciting. The film feels real. It's so authentic feeling. It's like you're watching an artifact. This is supposed to be 1959 France, right, Paris, and it looks exactly like it. When I saw it, I assumed a lot of it was stock footage or he's just bought some wide shots of Cannes in 1959.

1:33:33but no it's all film for real and you would never know but a lot of cgi was involved to make it look like because they filmed it you know whatever 2024 25 but it looks like 1959 it's it's an absolute tour de force by richard linklater but it's a small film it's a small film about this gang of people it's so naturalistic it's so natural and he is in for all to goddard but without it ever feeling reverential and i heard an interview with him and he said how he treated it when he was shooting was to tell the cast and crew of this film to not treat it like they were making a legendary you know treating these people like legends making it they were just people making this goddard was not famous at that time unless you were you know read kai de cinema and that's what it's a really freewheeling um naturalistic little film is i would say above all it's a because it's really, really funny.

1:34:25But it's exhilarating because it's an ode to these people changing filmmaking history and it's done with such love. And I loved all of it. I 100 % agree. It was actually incredibly painstakingly made. They labored over making it as exact as possible, but it feels so breezy and so light and it's so in love with creativity and it's so in love with film and cinema. It is absolutely glorious. I adored it. I absolutely adore it it's one of my favourite films of the year as well I also saw Hamnet and I love it more than you do so I can't I don't know if I can say favourite film of the year but this is absolutely up there for me it's fantastic that's a big talk on Thursday January 29th I know I know but it sounds great four stars then for Nouvelle Fague should be five should be five yeah oh my god a film about a dickhead who you cannot help but love James hello hi tell us about Tell us about The Wrecking Crew, please.

1:35:24Oh, I'd love to tell you about The Wrecking Crew. The Wrecking Crew stars Dave Bautista and Jason Momoa as two estranged brothers. This is... I think you've just told us about this movie. Five stars. Five stars for this. No, but more importantly, for those of us who listen to the Baila TV podcast, this is the long-awaited return of Baba and Ido Voss from season two of My Beloved Sea. The wank worshiper has spoken. All hail the wank worshiper. Absolutely. And crucially, this is written by Jonathan Tropper, who was at that point the showrunner of C so it's a reunion all round plus it has Bobby Draper from The Expanse in it honestly this is just it's like this has been this is like porn for you it is it is my porn I'm very excited about it at a time when Pornhub are apparently being banned in the UK I don't need it because I have this it's absolutely fine not that I know anything about that of course not of course not but anyway Jason Moa plays Johnny Halley and Dave Bautista plays James Halley and they are two one of them so So Momoa is a cop and Batista is a Navy SEAL.

1:36:24They are both hard as fucking nails and their dad gets killed in the cold open. Yes! Who is he? Well, he's the dad. Okay, Chris. His name's Walter. That's all you really need to know. He dies under mysterious circumstances and they don't quite believe it's on the up and up, mainly because the Yakuts have turned up and tried to kill them. But anyway, thus they journey back, or I should say Momoa goes back to his native Hawaii and they try to unravel the mystery while fighting with each other and on the way, for they are estranged and they do not get along. And look, this is exactly what the trailer essentially sets it out to be, which is deeply fucking stupid.

1:37:01But what it's not, so it is, I guess, kind of an action comedy, but it's more action, less comedy, except it is genuinely funny at times. And some of the games are properly good. It's incredibly violent. Like, I was astonished by how violent it is, even early on. I probably shouldn't be Jonathan Tropper made Banshee he made Warrior like he loves this shit and who directed this film this is directed by Angel Manuel Zotto who did Blue Beetle indeed but that notwithstanding this is it's actually a lot of fun the action's pretty well staged I think it's not subtle of all the things this film is subtle is not one of them Clay Spang who gives such extraordinary bellend not literally in Bad Sisters is the villain here and he has a man bun and he is I mean, is quite extraordinary.

1:37:49And the last half an hour of this, which is almost action, wall-to-wall action, is a little generic and a little bit disappointing. I enjoyed the build-up a lot more. But I think the chemistry between these two guys, which is very different, obviously, to see, which is very much not a comedy, but they're really fun bouncing off each other. Literally. Bouncing each other off things, you know, punching each other in the face. It's really, really fun. And I really did sit down to watch this last night feeling like I was, like, doing sort of the last walk to the crucifixion. I was a bit like, I've got to watch another film for the podcast.

1:38:20I'm going in, guys. Pray for me. And I honestly had a really good time. I was on my phone for the first five minutes, put it down, didn't pick it up again. I genuinely had a blast with it. I laughed out loud more than once. Jacob Batalon has an action scene, for God's sake. It's extraordinary. I just was so amused. I mean, does the plot have any surprises at all? No. No, 100 % not. You can see the bad guys a million miles away. There is no surprise there whatsoever. When it starts to rain, are the brothers about to start punching each other? Yes, of course they are. Because of course they're going to have a beatdown in the rain.

1:39:00You know it. I don't care. I just like big, stupid, burly men working out their feelings by punching each other. I mean, it's fair. Helen's upset about Pornhub as well. I just had I had so much more fun than I expected to have with this and yeah it was great has a touch of latter stage Fast and Furious about it in that it's but like maybe mid stage Fast and Furious so before they're in space for example but when they realise it's just very stupid like everyone except Vin Diesel realises it's just very stupid but it's a lot of fun it's a lot of fun alright we gave it two two stars that's harsh I'd give it a three yeah I think this is a three and I'm the person who just was harsh on mercy and shelter but I would give this one three I don't know what that says about me but there we are and it's on Prime Video so you know alright okay two stars then for The Wrecking Crew which is on Prime Video Hellspells last but not least it's the killer monkey movie Primate yes this I have to say I really enjoyed again went in with very low expectations it's directed by Johannes Roberts who has made a bunch of films, most of which I haven't seen, but like 47 Meters Down, for example, a couple of the, a Strangers sequel, a Resident Evil sequel.

1:40:20But this is a very simple story. It is basically, there is a pet chimpanzee. His name is Ben. He lives with a family because the now deceased mother was a researcher who, you know, worked with him and taught him sign language and so on. He's very much a part of this family, which is headed by Troy Kotsur. the great actor from Koda, who is an author in this story. And he has two teenage daughters and they have friends. And they all come for a visit just as the monkey gets bitten and goes rabid. No! Things go a bit freaking gory. It's Kuja with monkeys. It's Kuja with a chimpanzee, yeah. And I had no expectations here.

1:41:02I just thought it was going to be bad. But I'll tell you what is really helpful about this. For the most part, apart from a couple of scenes, the monkey is a person in a suit and the person is Miguel Torres Umba for the most part and does a fantastic job of giving a performance as this rabid animal, but that one who has been a beloved member of the family for years and years. So there is a physical monkey or physical chimpanzee there for everybody to interact with for almost all scenes. There's a couple of very fast moving ones where they've obviously done a bit of CG. But generally speaking, that gives it a sense of, you know, physicality that you don't always have.

1:41:38It's a very contained story. It mostly takes place in this one house and garden in Hawaii. And yeah, I just had a blast. It's not reinventing the wheel. It's just a bunch of people are stalked by a dangerous thing. I was, I mean, look, I'm a wimp. I'm the only one here who's seen it. So I don't know if I can calibrate that, but I find it really genuinely quite chilling because, you know, it's just one big animal who's kind of gone cuckoo and is now out to get you. Yeah. So, yeah, there's a fun Rob Delaney cameo as well, just by the way. Oh, we like him. But otherwise, I mean, I didn't know anybody else in the cast.

1:42:15You may know them better. Johnny Sequoia, Jessica Alexander, people like that. But young up-and-comers, but not household names. Brutally killed? Some are. Yeah. All right. Well, you'd be delighted to know he gave this one. Trois. Très bien. Je suis d 'accord. three stars then for primate sounds right up my chimpanzee street I hate every A by C from chimpanzee to chimpanzee you'll never make a monkey out of me you'll never make a monkey out of me there we go three stars then for primate and on that note folks that is it for this week's Empire podcast hurrah the torture is over the evil is defeated I'm still here sorry I know I've been quiet I thought you were getting your Pornhub steps in quickly before before it shuts down just downloading a VPN it's okay visiting porn now that's what VPN stands for alright so join us next week for more film related fun we will be joined by Rachel McAdams and Dylan O 'Brien stars of the new Sam Raimi joint send help you may have to send help for me because I will be in a state of delirium.

1:43:34And when we're talking about that movie, that is for sure. But anyway, until then, until we meet again, until that auspicious occasion, it is goodbye from my three colleagues of such lethal cunning. Goodbye, James Dyer. Goodbye, Chris Hewitt. Listen to the Pilot TV podcast, because it's great. Every Monday. Why was that your special subject? The Pilot TV podcast? I don't know anything about that.

1:43:58It's goodbye from Helen O 'Hara. Toodaloo. And it's goodbye from Alex Godfrey. au revoir oh I see oh très bien yeah oui oui oui oui oui chouette chouette what owl owl and it is goodbye from me I'm off to prepare a two minute quiz on good fellas for Alex Godfrey on the poster who's standing on the far left Joe Pesci probably thanks for listening see you next time bye bye

1:44:33Okay. He's on the right!