Can Stoke-on-Trent’s pottery industry be saved?

0:11Hello and welcome to The Entrepreneurs on Monocle Radio, the show all about inspiring people, innovative companies and fresh ideas in global business. On today's programme, we're highlighting entrepreneurs seeing opportunity in the face of challenge. First, we'll meet an Australian founder who's investing in a sector that many have left behind, the UK ceramics industry. You know, I did think this is not my fight to be had. And I sort of was waiting for someone else to step up. And then eventually I looked around, I'm like, no one else is going to step up. It's going to have to be me. And later, meet the CEO of a company growing some of the world's finest coffee in a country where it's long been considered impossible, Japan.

0:50The coffee harvested this year has a sugar content of 26 degrees, which is higher than the world's finest coffee beans in terms of sugar content at all. This is The Entrepreneurs with me, Tom Edwards.

1:12you're listening to the entrepreneurs sarah watson is the founder of balinaeum a british company specializing in decorative bathroom accessories especially handcrafted tiles created with interior designers and architects in mind in 2023 when the future of her main tile supplier was thrown into question, Sarah made a somewhat surprising decision. She took over the factory herself. What followed was something of a crash course in ceramics manufacturing, a deeper connection to Stoke-on-Trent and a renewed commitment to small-scale, high-quality production. Sarah stopped by Midori House to talk about heritage preservation, local manufacturing and thinking long-term in business.

1:55She began by telling me how an Australian ended up in the potteries. I'm Australian by birth. My husband is also Australian and he worked for Christie's, the art auctioneers. And he got moved to New York. So we had five years in New York. I had a year in San Francisco and then I've been in London for almost 20 years. But my Australian accent is very firmly wedged at the back of my nose. It hasn't softened at all. So neither Stoke nor London has beaten it out of me. In 2007, I started a company called Ballinaeum. Ballinaeum's a Latin word meaning bathhouse. And the idea is that we would sell decorative things for the bathroom.

2:28And I think we started with shower curtains and then we added mirrors and tiles and washstands. And then in 2013, we added tiles. Balliname's a retail brand. We design and sell products. We primarily sell to interior designers and architects. The bulk of our customers are here in the UK. It's about 60 % in the UK and then 40 % in the rest of the world. And 30 % is the United States. We almost entirely sell to interior designers and architects. We do sell to the general public, but I have to say they don't often come to us. The reason people will come to us, and interior designers in particular, is because we work with small manufacturers and have a lot of flexibility in the way that we, what we design and produce.

3:06So interior designers often come to us and say, oh, I really like that, but dot, dot, dot. Could I have it in this shape or this colour or this size? And because we work very closely with our manufacturers, you know, we usually know if it can be done and how it can be done. Saloname is a very traditional retail company selling to interior designers and architects. We have six core manufacturers, three in the UK and three in Italy. In October 2023, we bought our primary tile manufacturer in Stoke-on-Trent, Phoenix Tile Studio. I started working with Phoenix in 2013. They were the first people who made tiles from us.

3:40We've since launched tiles made by other people as well. Phoenix make about 40 % of what Ballinaeum sells. And when I first started working with them in 2013, we probably bought£10 ,000 worth of tiles. And then in 2023, when we purchased the business, we were buying more like sort of£300 ,000 or£350 ,000 worth of tiles. And we'd become Phoenix's largest customer. And this was pretty soon after the pandemic and COVID, which for luxury interiors was boom times. And at that time, I was saying to Paul and Jeff who have run the business, you know, guys, you know, I need to decrease the lead times. You know, we need to hire more people.

4:16We need to buy the kiln, you know, we need to invest in this business. You know, we need to be training up more people. And Paul and Jeff quite rightly said to me, look, Sarah, you know, we're about to turn 60. This is the time of our life. You know, we're winding down. This is not the time for us to, you know, be taking a financial risk. And then I sort of said to them, well, what happens when you retire? And they sort of said, well, you know, in truth, we'll be shut the door. And, you know, and I'm like, what happens to the people who work here? And there was 10 people working at Phoenix at the time.

4:44and he's like well they'll probably have to go and get another job and I'm like oh man and I obviously commercially I don't want to lose my you know what is my number one product and and it is the most interesting product that we sell I think and the most unique but I was very scared and very reluctant to running a second business and learning about manufacturing and actually in coming here today I was thinking about entrepreneurship and running a business and I would not describe myself as a natural entrepreneur. I don't particularly enjoy running a business. I don't find it particularly enjoyable.

5:18I find it actually pretty stressful and pretty uncomfortable most of the time. And I didn't enjoy the first sort of eight years of Ballinae. You know, it was really hard work. You know, I didn't enjoy having to do the early stages of a business where you have to do everything yourself, you know, where it's chaotic and you're thinly stretched and you've got to be the person who designs the products and contacts the manufacturer and deals with the customers and sets up the IT system and fixes the printer, you know, and do the job descriptions and do the interviews. Like I just, it was miserable.

5:47And, you know, I enjoy Ballinaeum a lot more now, but I've got, you know, a bigger team to help me. So to potentially go back to that was pretty terrifying. So I ragged. And yet you did it, which is interesting for someone who's avowedly doesn't enjoy that. And I think the other thing which is probably worth interrogating in a bit more detail is the state of that business. And you mentioned that these guys were saying, look, maybe the business closes its doors and that your business was responsible for so much of their growth. Just take a step back and tell us a little bit about the state of that ceramics industry in this market.

6:20Obviously, storied, incredible history, but incredibly reduced and diminished, not completely denuded, but well, no, it is. I mean, it's a landscape that's really tough. So not only were you taking on another business, but you were entering a geographic as well as a sector marketplace with so many attendant problems. Why not just walk away? You must be crazy. Yes, I did seriously think about walking away, actually. I did think this is not my fight to be had. Why do I have to be the person to step up? Surely someone else will step up. And I sort of was waiting for someone else to step up. And then eventually I looked around, I'm like, oh, fuck, no one else is going to step up.

6:57It's going to have to be me. And I care so much about the people in Stoke-on-Trent and the factory that I work with in particular. So Paul and Jeff, who I just love and adore, they're just two of the kindest, funniest, wonderfulest human being I've worked with. And then the team that they've built around them is just, you know, they're really special human beings. And I couldn't sort of stand by and sort of let it fall apart. And Stoke-on-Trent is a hard city to love. You know, it is not an attractive city. It is grey, it is miserable. I can leave London, it'll be sunny and shiny, and I will get up to Stoke and it will be grey.

7:27It's six towns rather than one central town, so it's very spread out. There's not a lot of, you know, it's a really good example of town planning done badly. Like there aren't really parks and communal spaces and a shared centre. You know, the food options, there's not a great thriving food industry. A lot of the buildings are pretty ugly. There's a lot of boarded up shops. You know, the industry, Stoke was really built on coal and ceramics and both of those industries have been completely decimated over the last 40 years. And I don't know what the exact statistics would be for ceramics production, but I did hear the statistic that, say 15 years ago or even 20 years ago, there were 30 ,000 jobs in ceramics and now there's 3 ,000.

8:03And I wouldn't die on a post for that exact figure, but certainly the gist of it is true. There's only a handful of people still manufacturing ceramics in Stoke-on-Trent. And that's something that I think about a lot now. And I really was hesitant about taking on the businesses. I can take on this business and I can hire people and I can train them and I can invest in machinery and I can invest in systems and processes, but I also need a supporting infrastructure around me. So we buy clay from local suppliers. We have glazes that we buy from other glaze companies. We need people to service and repair our kilns.

8:37We need people to provide the kiln furniture. And I need all of that infrastructure around me as well. And the reason it all existed in Stoke is because we all had that shared infrastructure. So even when someone like Johnson's, who's the biggest tile manufacturer in the UK, who ceased production in the UK last year, They believe it's no longer sustainable to manufacture in the UK. Even when they go down, they're not a direct competitor of mine in any stretch of the imagination. They would be producing 100 square metres a week, whereas we do 10 square metres a week or something. But I did worry about the impact that has on my supporting infrastructure.

9:10Well, tell me a bit about that, because I know that you're, and as you said, with the caveat, maybe those figures, they give you the general direction of travel. It's clearly a challenge. But you remain optimistic despite this kind of sea change that's happened in the sector. Is that because the business more broadly, not just your business, but these corollary businesses need to embrace the idea of not doing volume and not being about mass production, but about being specialised and being premium and being unafraid of saying, look, we can be small, but we will be the best. Is that the part of the kind of mindset shift which will drive the survival of not just your businesses and these others you've mentioned, but this whole sector in this part of the world?

9:49I have seen that in my own very real experience and just generally across over the last 17 years of running Ballinaeum. There has just been an increasing polarisation between cheap mass-produced volume, usually made in the Far East, and expensive handmade crafted. And there's nothing in between. And it's from things like brass components to lighting to our glaze suppliers and our faces. So that, and I think there was a point probably about 10 years ago where I had to make a decision. I think when I started Ballinaim, I was quite, I wanted to be a retail company. I wanted to be accessible. I've never wanted, I knew that we would be expensive because I liked making things by hand, but I never wanted to be exclusive.

10:29I never wanted anyone to feel uncomfortable about coming in and buying from us. Like if you want to save up and buy a tile, yes, it'll be expensive, but we will treat you exactly the same as we would treat, you know, a member of the royal family. It makes no difference to us. But there was a point, it became pretty apparent that if I wanted to stay in being a retail-focused company, it then becomes about volume and price and customer acquisition. It's how much does it cost to get that customer and how much money can you make from them? How many different ways can you get to buy from you? And then you have to work with manufacturers with a huge amount of waste, which becomes landfill and you hold stock.

11:04And I remember just looking at that. And this is my job. Or certainly when I was doing by the name, all I'd do was go to manufacturers, see manufacturers and see how things were made. And I've seen big manufacturing and I've seen small handcrafted manufacturing. And whilst I can appreciate the engineering and the intellectual challenge that's involved in large scale manufacturing, I personally can't be involved in it. I can't put my time and energy in it. I don't believe in the soul of it. I don't believe in the consequences of it. I do think there's really serious consequences to landfill and waste that consumers are not paying for and those manufacturers are not paying for.

11:38So if I have to pick a side, I pick the side of small manufacturing. But it does mean I've now got, you know, people think Ballinae is an incredibly expensive brand. I mean, in truth, we're not. So I now know because I own the manufacturing and the retail, I know exactly how much every single person is paid and how much every single component costs. And I can tell you that Phoenix last year lost £100 ,000. I can tell you that Ballinae runs a pretty lean shop and we made about a 5 % profit last year. So when people look at the cost of our product and say, gosh, that's expensive, the truth is that is how much that product should cost to be made.

12:09The team in Stoke are sort of paid minimum wage or minimum wage to plus 20%. So no one's being paid fat salaries. And we run a very lean team in Stoke-on-Trent. And then equally in Ballinaeum, we have a small studio showroom in Hampstead, which costs us£40 ,000 a year. If I was on the Pimlico Road, that same space would cost me£120 ,000. You know, we do not spend lots of money on marketing and advertising. We're very system and streamlined in the way that we operate. And that's how much it should cost. These things cost. Well, I was going to ask you about, you know, because you mentioned the attitude of your consumers and your customers.

12:42Has it got a little bit easier not to do what you do, but to have those conversations? Because now the consumer's preoccupations, their concerns, their interests, their values, are they catching up with the values that you've described, your own personal ones in terms of they want to know that something is sustainable. They're not going to ask you. They just expect that if you're a brand they like, you're going to look after your staff and do your CSR properly. Do you think that that discourse has caught up with where you wanted to be almost, if you see what I mean? I mean, I wish it was true.

13:13I don't think so. I think the decision making... Are we getting there even? No, I would say the decision... This is what I think. This is my current working theory. So maybe ask me in a year and I'll tell you if it's different. But my current working theory with people who buy design-led products and luxury design, I think the first question is, do you love it? Then the second question is, can you afford it? And then the third question or the third thing is, oh, is it made well? Is there craftsmanship? Is there a nice story around it that then validates and makes the previous two decisions much more enriched?

13:44But I think ultimately people will make the decision to purchase something because they love the design and then they can or cannot afford it. So I would like people to care. In a way, I'm just trying to think about, you know, looking at this through the monocle lens. That's an OK hierarchy, right? Have beautiful things. I don't want to bastardise that William Morris quote about things that have utility or beauty, affordability. However, that could be a premium, super luxury item or more of an entry level product. But it's still got to be affordable. And then you make the consideration about those other attendant values.

14:16Just on that last point, though, you've kind of, I was going to say, painted yourself into a corner. you've you've whatever whatever the expression be you've tiled yourself into a corner where you're now sort of a bit of a custodian of some of these values and someone who's very tapped into this the heritage of this scene in this part of the world you seem to kind of wear that quite lightly but are you are you okay with that you know as you said you didn't even really it seems you didn't quite know what you're getting into and now you are bearing these other responsibilities is that is that fine Sarah that's the question for my therapist really let's be honest I mean I just love factories.

14:51I love them. I've always loved them. My parents had owned a roller shutter manufacturing when I was growing up and maybe that's in my DNA maybe. But, you know, I love, and it doesn't matter what the factory makes, you know, I love the dust. I love the noise. I love the pattern. I love the repetition. I love the ebb. I love the flow. You know, I love the light. I love the smells. You know, I think they're wonderful places to be. And I love people who make stuff. Like people who make things are the best people. Because also, And when you make things and you make them by hand, things go wrong all the time.

15:23And I think it gives you a humbleness and an honesty and an integrity that you don't get from working in Excel spreadsheets. I love it. You know, and I've lived, you know, as I said to you, I've lived in Melbourne, San Francisco, New York and London. And honestly, the happiest I've ever been is working on a dip line in Stoke-on-Trent. So, you know. There you go. And what about when you get other validation? Now, that could come in the form of, you know, the right compliment you need just when, you know, you're a bit exhausted and a customer tells you that this is beyond their expectations or winning awards, whether it's at Salone or being recognised for a contribution to a sort of a heritage part of British manufacturing.

16:02That must be incredible to get that validation. Because as you said, sometimes you must feel like you've embarked on a crazy journey. But to get those moments, I don't know, what's that like? I mean, I know I meant to say yes. in truth, I find it all a bit fake and a bit insincere. Like I'm being awarded, I got some awards from some journalists who have seen - Terrible people. Don't listen to what they say. Not to be trusted. But they don't work alongside me. They don't see how I treat my staff on a day-to-day basis. They have no idea if my business is profitable. They have no idea if I actually treat people kindly and fairly.

16:34So I sort of take it all with a grain of salt. Like it's all very nice. But actually I would be, I'm far more pleased when someone who really knows me and who actually works alongside me, when they say, hey, Sarah, I thought that was really great, that's when I actually... Because they know. They know me and they know what I've actually done to get to this point. So, yeah, I'm pretty selective. Impervious. Impervious to compliments even. Okay, so what happens next? Exciting growth, whether or not you like it, Sarah. Recognition from your contemporaries and peers and even some of those grizzled hacks.

17:04But what comes next? What should we look out for? What are you most excited about? Oh, the next few years is all about stabilising Stoke-on-Trent. So Paul and Jeff have just turned 60, so hopefully they've got eight more years before they leave. So really the next eight years is about getting all that, because all that information which is in their brain, written down into systems and processes and standardisation and start training up the next generation to come up who can replace them so they hopefully can retire at 68 and we will be able to carry on without them because at the moment we wouldn't be able to do it.

17:33It doesn't exist without Paul and Jeff. And so one of the things I'm working on right now is I'm setting up an MRP system, like a manufacturing resource planning system, like to schedule. At the moment, I've been doing it in an Excel spreadsheet and it's now got to the point it's too difficult and complicated and beyond my Excel skills. So, yeah, it's about systems and processes in Stoke and then hiring more people. Like one of the biggest problems in ceramics, and I think almost every single ceramics company will tell you this, is that we have an ageing workforce. Like often the average age is sort of 55 and, you know, we need the 20-year-olds, the 30-year-olds and the 40-year-olds to be coming through.

18:06So for us in Stoke, it's really, you know, I'd like to, when I took over the business, we were 10. We're currently 15. Ideally, if growth and sales allow, we would double again. You know, I basically want every single person needs to have someone 10 years younger than them training up to do what they do. Because you can probably learn the basics of how to do a job in maybe three to six months, but you don't get really good until you've been doing it for years. The craft. Well, I was going to ask you about that because where you have a sector like this in a geography where, you know, it was the work that generations of families did, almost without question.

18:38You said, you know, mining and ceramics on this scale. Once that business, once that sector changes, diminishes, it's not a well-worn path. It's almost an unknown path. What's the attitude amongst the young people in that area? And is it this slightly perverse situation where you have to go out and win these people around? You have to educate them about what this sector means because it's alien to them now because it's been so diminished over such a long period of time. Yeah, yeah. Because you can go and get a job in an Amazon warehouse or at Bet365 in Stoke-on-Trent probably that pays better than a ceramics factory.

19:14So, yeah, and also I think, and you're right, ceramics has been a multi-generational industry. And so even in our own companies, so Deborah, who's our most experienced decorator, who's worked with Paul and Jeff for 37 years, her mother was a ceramics decorator for 40 years. And now Deborah's daughter, Becky, has joined us and she's 26 and we're training her in how to do ceramics. So that's just three generations just in that one family. And then another guy, Andy, in the decoration team, he's with us for 30 years. His college-age daughter works part-time with us. And she turns out she's really good.

19:44So ceramics is in the blood. And apparently there's an even younger daughter who hasn't hit working age yet, who I'm eyeing off as well. Give her a second. Yeah, 14 and nine months, I think. Sarah, that's amazing, isn't it? And I know you talked about where you find your validation. And it's if it's a colleague or a team member thanks you or someone who knows better. that must give you a lift to be one of the few people who is helping to continue to power a generational industry. I mean, that must give you some stuff. You still look somewhat sanguine, but I'm telling you that's good. That's amazing, isn't it?

20:19Yeah, it is. It's really rewarding and fulfilling in a way that, you know, selling tiles to billionaires is not like, you know, that's, you know, working alongside. And then we have a real finding spirit. There is because there are so few jobs left in Stoke. It's been decimated for so many years that we do have a real, we have a chip on our shoulder. We have a real fighting spirit, like we're the last men on the dance floor, you know, and in fact we're starting to really try and build in Stoke, you know, reaching out to other people. So historically in Stoke the worlds of tiles and tabletops did not cross over.

20:49Even though we used the same raw materials, the same kilns, you know, never do the two touch or meet. But before I took over Phoenix, you know, I did go and talk to Emma Bridgewater and she was fantastic. There's a small company called 1882 who are a bit like us, but for tableware. We've had sports days with them. We're just trying to build just a greater sense of community and pride for those of us who are still left working in ceramics. And I think Emma Bridgewater has spoken about this at length, but I think we did lose a lot of people in ceramics. Why would you work if you're a 30 or 40-year-old?

21:17You've watched your grandparents and your parents lose their jobs. Why would you go do it? So, yeah, I think we're going to have a real campaign to get people back into the industry. Okay, Sarah, what should we look out for? Or where do you pop up where, I don't know, listeners who are interested in what you do, if they want to come and see you, if they just want to see the wares, if they want to, I don't know, get their hands on these products. Can they come and see you in Stoke here in London? Tell us what should they do. So we have a home office studio in Hampstead. And they can come there.

21:47And actually, you'll get to see more tiles in Hampstead than you will in Stoke-on-Trent because we've got lots out on display. So yes, the customers are welcome to come and see us at the studio in London. And then if you happen to be in Stoke-on-Trent, yes, you can come see the factory, actually. So we would ask that you call us in advance, not just turn up because we're not, you know, we are a working factory and there's not a huge amount of room. And in fact, actually, for a lot of our interior designers' clients, we've just recently put together like a Visit Stoke guide where, you know, if you're going to come, we want them to come and see, you know, how we make and, you know, why we charge what we charge.