Is packaging broken? A simple solution to reduce waste

0:11Hello and welcome to The Entrepreneurs on Monocle Radio, the show all about inspiring people, innovative companies and fresh ideas in global business. In this week's programme, we hear from a serial entrepreneur and co-founder of an innovative business aiming to deliver sustainable packaging for fast-moving consumer goods with the help of the humble drinks can. Linear packaging, meaning non-recyclable, will end up at landfill or incineration. We realised that aluminium is a better material, it's infinitely recyclable, so we looked at what is the most recycled container on the market, which is the aluminum beverage can.

0:46It's beautiful. So we've just transformed it. And a little later, we'll meet a man serving the wealth management needs of the entrepreneur segment and hearing why this demographic see the world and their wealth a little differently. Business owners increasingly, we're seeing the demographic changes as well. And there's increasingly a younger, growing entrepreneurial client base who also expect things differently. This is The Entrepreneurs with me, Tom Edwards.

1:22You're listening to The Entrepreneurs. Victor Lindbergh is a serial entrepreneur with a track record of success in digital media who's now setting his sights on an even more challenging field, making the world more sustainable. His means for this pursuit is as the co-founder and CEO of Meadow, a radically different packaging solutions business that's using the aluminium can to transform the FMC goods segment. Meadow's proprietary capsule tech has already seen wide adoption, and there's more. The business has partnered with the world's largest supplier of aluminium, Ball Corporation to Guarantee Scale, and they're also strategic partners with Novellis, the world leader in aluminium rolling and recycling, meaning Meadow are less vulnerable to changing tariffs and market price disruption.

2:09Clever, right? Well, armed with examples of the smart products and tech for me to play with, Victor stopped by at Monaco HQ to tell me more about the business. Meadow is a new circular packaging standard. So imagine that you're a consumer and you go into a retail shop and you're going to buy your products. You see a shampoo, you pick that up, a hand soap, a condiment, a surface cleaner. you reach the cashier, you pay for the products, you look down in your bag and you see fantastic products, but you also see a lot of items where 90 % of them are linear packaging, meaning non-recyclable, and they will end up at landfill or incineration.

2:48And that is what we wanted to shift. So we realized that aluminum is a better material, it's infinitely recyclable, you know, 75 % that's been ever extracted is still in use, in circulation. But even though we love aluminum or think that is a great material, it is the infrastructure that is important. So we looked at what is the most recycled container on the market, which is the aluminum beverage can. It's beautiful. You know, it's 400 billion units being produced every year. And it comes with a perfect value chain from production to collection. And we said, OK, how can we nudge this infrastructure or this product into new categories?

3:27So we just transformed it from a beverage can into a capsule, as we call it, the Meadow Capsule System. And then, well, you're a consumer, how would you use it? Well, you already have probably a dispenser at home. You maybe bought a nice one at a product store or H &M Home or something similar. But nowadays, you refill them. And it's quite messy. So instead, you take this cartridge, you pop it inside to our proprietary dispensing system. Mess-free refill. PC open, clean, etc. And there's kind of a playful smile on your face because it is that amazing thing where, you know, I'm sure it was far from simple to deliver the proprietary tech and to, as you say, to sort of adapt the thinking of the beverage can to this different unit.

4:14But there's something so pleasingly, elegantly simple about it. And we've got some of the bits. Let's talk about them because I have here. So this is a kind of the top of a traditional can with the integrated ring pull, which people imagine this is the meadow top the little kind of flower tell me a little bit about how it works because it it basically it just looks like a drinks can without the ring pull which i mean that is what it is it is what it is exactly but tell me how because it's too simple but it can't have been so how did you refine it what was that process like so maybe first talk about why even changing it i mean if you put soap in a normal beverage can which would actually be a good thing because you put then FMCD products in something that is circular but it's not a great user experience and it's not safe.

5:02Starting with the safety part actually, if you have soap in a can and you have something that billions of people are used to consume in a certain way, someone will mistake it from beverage and someone will probably drink it. They probably smell well in the mouth, however it's not a good idea. Bubbles coming out. But instead, we have to make it tamper-free and safe. And we need to make it also different. So create a differentiation so people understand, okay, this is something else. The other aspect, as I mentioned, is the user experience. This is a key element. We have actually created a reuse and a refill system, but we call it pre-fill.

5:42Because with this tamper-free end, which is, as you said, it doesn't have a ring pull. You cannot open it. You need to open it with an external mechanism. it pushes you to another use experience. So you take the can, you pop it inside of a dispenser. We have some here. Let's have a look at these as well. So there could be a dispenser where you have a pump applicator for soap or hand cream, but it could also be the spray applicator for a surface cleaner. And you pop it inside, and in order to open it... I'm going to do the... Yes. There it goes in. Yes. And then you would need to take away the safety cupboard things.

6:19So, exactly. There you go. There you go. Now, listen, I guess, so this is one of those ideas where, listen, the execution is perfect. The idea is beautifully simple. You've proved your smarts before, right? You've already exited other businesses. So that makes it presumably easier when you're talking to partners and backers and so forth to a degree. But to move the needle with something like this, and the numbers were astonishing, 400 billion beverage cans, you said, a year. you've got to get people on board relatively swiftly and at a certain scale right to start to kind of do the things we need to do for that circularity that is not easy because people are cynical they're set in their ways they are conservative small c conservative generally about making big strategic pivots so what toolkit victor do you have to kind of dig into to try and move that narrative forwards yes great question i mean maybe go back to how we met me and my two co-founders, Nick and Peter.

7:14We met, I think, because of three reasons. It was time that we were at the same co-working space without knowing each other from before. A bit of serendipity, a bit of luck. For sure. The second part was that we all were in love in the same problem without knowing it. I think that is important. And then a very strong intuition after we have shared our ideas and seen what we wanted to do, that we felt that we do it now immediately. No break, just full throttle. So, you know, I've been spending some time already, as you mentioned. I was a CEO in another company. We have now already sold it once and we were about to sell it the second time to a new owner.

7:55I also realized I want to work within sustainability. I want to work with a specific problem, which was the waste crisis that we're extracting and we'll continue to extract. You should say, you know, the previous business, it wasn't in this sector. No, no, it was a totally different sector. So I come from marketing. I was actually helping global FM cities to sell their products on digital platforms. But now I want to help them take responsibility of the products. So that was kind of the shift. And the theme was the waste crisis. How can we reduce the waste mountain that exists on this planet? Because only on the last five years since we started this business, the amount of waste on this planet has increased with 20%.

8:3520%. I mean, again, you've got to let, a bit like that for a hundred billion, you've got to let that stat sink in. Yeah. 20 % more waste on this planet. And we talk about certain waste mountains in areas on this planet that are bigger cities. You know, there's traffic on these waste mountains. And then you also have the invisible waste mountains, like in Sweden. We incinerate it. We have a very sophisticated infrastructure to create waste to warmth, to create energy from it. Also fantastic. But it doesn't really help us the fact that we are continuing to extract resources from this planet. And we have planetary boundaries.

9:09We just need to admit that, that we are consuming more than what exists. We talk about this overshoot day. So currently, I think that we are at 1.8 planets a year and it's going in the wrong direction. And just to bombard you with another stat. I'm loving the stats there, Victor. Don't you worry about that. Okay. No, but then, you know, until, you know, 2050 is a quite important target for countries and companies, et cetera. We need to be net zero. By then, we probably have extracted 60 % more resources than today from this planet. Imagine. It's just... Well, we talk about sustainability. Yeah.

9:47That's not sustainable. So tell me, one of the other kind of, I think, things that strikes me as very intuitive, the word you use, but also smart about the business is you can collaborate with different stakeholders throughout the kind of supply chain across the piece. You have your sort of co-packing partners. again was that always part of the plan that you had to make it easy to integrate these other partners throughout the whole chain in order to drive yeah change at the scale which the numbers tell us i mean it's very urgent yeah i think getting the partners on board is is key and i should also come back to you know answer your actual first question is like what does it take what's the driver to make this happen and as i said when we three met and we are aligned on this problem we said okay we probably have a brief now and the brief is do not try to recycle the existing waste mountain.

10:36If you see, you know, imagine that you have a bathtub filled with litter and it's just constantly being refilled. Try to turn off the tap. I think it's probably the most common analogy. And we said, okay, that is what we need to do. But that was in 2019, 2020. So the refills, we need to look at a new solution. It is obviously a design problem. We need to find a passion that is designed for a circular economy for the future. Nick, co-founder, is the one with engineering background. myself with business background and so is with Peter who just exited a tech startup he said what if we take the aluminum beverage can into new industries by doing a modification to it and he drew it on a napkin it's true it's a proper one of those stories it's a proper at the lunch restaurant you know April is it actually somewhere is it framed it should be I mean it's somewhere in Nick's in the documents yeah yeah love that but we were sitting at lunch restaurants the day before it was Earth Day So, you know, stars align in a very beautiful way.

11:34And I said, if we do this, I quit my job. What did we have to do? We have to prove that we have something that could scale. We need to prove that something that also is more sustainable. And we want to prove that we have something that could really make a difference on shelf for FMCGs. So that was kind of the first step. We recruited our first employee, Ross, mathematician from Oxford. let's try to understand the first step is this better from a sustainability perspective nick focused on can we protect it me and peter focused on the commercial part of it and then we went to our first fundrais so back then also 2020 2021 we were mid-covid everyone loved the fact of talking about a green transition everyone wanted to talk about sustainability and one wanted to address their problems.

12:27So I wouldn't say it was easy. We had a lot of warm welcomes into investor environments. That was very important to give us and fuel us with energy. And then it leads us to your second question. What did we have to focus on? So for us, it was the first step of saying, okay, we have something unique. As I said, can we protect it? So the first third of the development of the company for the last five years was about developing IP. Developing something that is simple enough. It needs to be simple. That is the only way we can implement it in the existing infrastructure. The second part was to develop a product.

13:08So we have the can. We know it's infinitely recyclable and we can nudge it from the infrastructure. And our modification to the can is so simple so we do not disturb the existing production lines. That is key. Now, as you said, how do I open it? Well, we need to create a user experience around it. What is it that people use? They use normal dispenser, pump dispenser, spray dispenser, mist, roll-ons, etc. But how do we put a can inside? And I don't want to do any marketing for an espresso. But you can imagine that, you know, that comes to mind. That's like a cartridge, you pop it inside to a reusable dispenser.

13:43And you use things exactly how you've done it before. We meet people, meet consumers where they are. but we just tried to eliminate some of the most painful parts. We knew that refill is messy, inconvenient. So when you pop it inside and with this twist to open technology, okay, that's check. Then the second part was premiumness. People invest more and more in their homes. We know that they don't want to pay more for sustainability. People want to do good, but necessarily there's no ESG premium. But they do potentially want to pay more to make their home more beautiful. We talk about an element called house proudness.

14:19And that's important, what happens in the guest bathroom. So that was the second phase to really come close to the consumer, working with consumers actually here in UK a lot, where we also have an office. And then thirdly, to build a supply chain. And now we talk about the co-packers and everyone. So with that base of having strong IP, a strong product, we needed a supply chain that also can help us with the scalability. and the first we got on board was Dayton Reliable Tooling. DRT is a company who invented the easy open end with its normal pull tap in the beginning. So they know a great simple idea when they see one, right?

14:57Yes, yeah. And you know, they looked at us and said, have you done this in your garage? Really? Like they have very sophisticated tooling. But we also needed them to help us industrialize this to really make the industrial tooling, to make this in scale. Because a normal beverage hand, I mean, in a high-speed line, is producing at 6 ,000 per minute. Okay. Another quite large number. It's just a sound of metal. It's nothing else. And then the second one was, of course, the relationship we have also built with Ball Corporation, world's largest can maker. And for us, it's about to continue to build these alliances.

15:37Recently, we announced our partnership with Stephen Gould, fantastic dispenser manufacturer, and then multiple fantastic co-packers across the planet that then can fill the product. What they need to do is they need to do a minor investment in equipment because everything is quite modular, but need to see my can. I need to create this differentiation pattern on the cartridge, and they're good to go. And then they could offer a new circular packaging solution. So what do you need to see in 2026 to really reassure you to deliver? Is it that you see a specific collaboration on certain shelves in a certain place?

16:17Is it a certain other product modification? What will make 26 successful for you? For us, it's, I mean, why we even exist is to help the brands that exist today that are producing a majority of the products that we find in consumers' home. we need to help them shift, but it takes a long time. So the question is, how do we make them move faster? We are here in the UK. You can find the products. I cannot tell the brands, but you can find the products at Waitrose. So you can buy them there. But we need to also show that our supply chain that we're building up or our partners that we're building up across the globe could deliver with quality.

16:57I know they can, but currently we have launched in the EU. The next step is also therefore US to show the scalability of the solution. But you need to start also with other entrepreneurs. So for us, it's been partnering with brands that are entrepreneurial, that take risk, that are bold and daring. I'm so thankful that this market even exists. I mean, 10 years ago, there were fewer product goods companies run by entrepreneurs that grew as fast as they were growing right now. So they're also a super important part of our friendship. But to deliver with that, and then we are also happy to see that we will constantly continue to do some cool development.

17:35We're hoping to see hospitality scene open up soon. So that I also wanted to see happening because that is another environment where we can push other benefits of this solution. You know, imagine being a hotel staff and you're going to replace the products in the dispenser on the wall. When you just take a can, pop it inside, twist it open and leave the room. Efficient and hygienic. So that is also another aspect. Now we understand our kind of split vision of things. Getting good penetration where we need to focus, but also evolving, showcasing, opening up new opportunities. That was Victor Ljungberg, the co-founder of Meadow.

18:11And you can find out more about this clever business by heading to meadow.global.

18:26you're listening to the entrepreneurs mark goddard is the uk ceo of lombard odia group a business he joined late in 2024 with more than two decades of experience under his belt serving wealthy uk clients including the entrepreneurial segment for the likes of coots and since 2005 ubs that background makes Mark a great fit at Lombard Odia, adding to the bank's ability to support entrepreneurial clients with tailored advice and strategic insight. With nearly 230 years of experience indeed, Lombard Odia is arguably uniquely well positioned to understand the complex needs of entrepreneurs. I welcomed Mark to Midori House to hear more about the particular dynamics of the entrepreneurial segment and the kind of challenge and opportunity their often changing needs provide.

19:14Mark began by telling me what he loves about working with entrepreneurs. It's a real privilege, actually, because taking away the business side, these are just really interesting people. Businesses are often started, not deliberately, it can be a spark, it's just an idea, something that has triggered some inspiration of some sense. And the way that that then sort of leads through to the creation of something that develops economic value and builds and you hire and bring people into that and ultimately you achieve something of value through it. I mean, that's pretty inspiring. And I mean, I've been very fortunate over the last 25 years or so.

19:55It doesn't look young enough, old enough, ladies and gentlemen. Very kind. But over that sort of time period in the industry, and I've been very fortunate to work with some really fascinating people from all types of backgrounds as well. And I think that's the other part that really fascinates me. I love people, love talking to people, understanding people's journeys, motivations, and ultimately helping them through the different stages of both their business requirements, but importantly then how that transpires into what they do with their wealth and their finances. Well, yeah, I was going to ask you a bit about how the demands or the expectations from working with these kind of clients has changed over the years.

20:30You worked UBS for many years, you know this sector and these kinds of opportunities and challenges implicit in it very well. Is a lot of it, Mark, these days about what you said, it's about kind of leaning into people's lives, understanding them more deeply, offering a more personalized service. I know that's a very important foundational value in terms of how Lombard Audio works generally. Is that the kind of the difference maker between the clients that come back, the clients that recommend their friends and so on, that you can deliver something that is more personal, I guess. Yes, definitely.

20:58I think that over, as I say, over 20 odd years, I think it has changed a lot, actually. And I would say in the last 10 years or so, that personalization, that ability to really deeply understand what it is that drives and motivates, you know, people, their families, the interaction between their business life and their personal life, and how you when you make decisions, often you're impacting both sides of that equation. I think that is really important. I would also say that business owners increasingly, we're seeing the demographic changes as well. And there's increasingly a younger, growing entrepreneurial client base who also expect things differently.

21:38I think they really look to an institution like ours to be able to support them through their networks that we have access to, particularly into the advisory community for their business. You know, we work extensively with corporate finance and private equity and venture capital. And it's a pretty lonely journey, actually, when you're a business owner. You're not necessarily surrounded by lots of other business owners who are your friends. Coming back to my point about people coming from all sorts of walks of life and backgrounds. And I think that it can be difficult to navigate that journey. And so where I think we play an important role, and I think this has evolved over time, is in being able to support people, create those connections and those networks, but also obviously to be able to help them think through some of those key topics and issues that are going to impact them through that business and personal journey.

22:29I find this kind of moment we're in with an unprecedented transfer of wealth on a sort of global scale. And we're seeing it sort of, I guess, a bit kind of sideways by gender as women typically tend to outlive men. But then we're seeing this huge intergenerational shift and all sorts of attendant, again, challenges and opportunities that are implicit in that. If we zoom out and look at the wealth management industry more broadly, Mark, is the business, the sector, is it keeping pace with those shifting demands? I guess certain operators are. I think Elo is a good example. More work to be done, though.

23:02The value sets are very different. It's not just the demographic profile. What they want and what they want their wealth to do and how they consider the decisions they make are changing very quickly. Is the industry keeping pace? Yeah, look, I think that's a good observation, Tom. From my perspective, I think that you do see expectations changing. I think areas like technology are playing an increasing role in the relationship that clients want to have with their wealth managers and with their banks. In time gone by, I think wealth managers slightly shunned or looked down on technology and apps and things, and it was all about the personal service.

23:40And of course, that is still relevant, and clients of scale do require personal service. But the way in which they access information, the way in which they want to communicate, the way they want to interpret it and look at research and things like this, actually the technology is playing an increasingly important role. And I think that the industry as a whole, to your point, is probably been a little bit slow at times in really addressing this and bringing it through, certainly relative to perhaps our retail peers, who through necessity of scale have had to develop the technology more effectively.

24:12So I think that is definitely a key trend that we see. I think the other thing I would point to, which is social value, social conscience, wanting to have social impact. Particularly, as I say, in younger generations, we see that sustainability and the way in which we invest money is really important to them. And yes, of course, returns are key. But at the same time, it's actually how do you generate those returns is becoming more and more of a conversation that we're having. And I think, again, there have been developments in the industry. Is there more to do there? I would say yes, there is.

24:46And Lombardier has been at the forefront, I think, of that, you know, addressing the importance of having a strong social and sustainable approach to its investments and supporting clients that really value that. Now, Mark, you mentioned the importance of being a network where perhaps there isn't one established for many clients. And I know Lombardier is kind of building a more of a sort of formalized entrepreneurial network, if you will. I don't know exactly what phase this program is at, but it strikes me as really interesting. And I think it speaks to what you said about going that extra bit further to deliver on your undertakings.

25:19Tell us what stage that is at and explain how that kind of fits in and responds actually to lots of the themes that we've been talking about. Yeah, it's at a stage where we are looking to take steps into next year around it. So I will talk a bit about it. I guess maybe taking a quick step back, which is why are we doing it? And why do we think some form of entrepreneur network or ecosystem is important? this really stems from a number of interactions and relationships I've had over the years with business owners and I think about some of the challenges that they have faced through those business and those personal journeys and we alluded to it a little bit earlier in terms of the fact that you don't always as an entrepreneur have a whole host of entrepreneurs sitting around you day to day your family may provide good moral support and you may have friends that will have a beer with you about stuff.

26:08But actually, when it comes to the ins and outs of the challenges you're facing with your business at different stages, and when it comes to thinking about actually exiting of a business, the emotional impact of selling your baby, and then actually what does life look like beyond that? Very, very difficult topics to be able to really, you know, discuss with people that haven't gone through it before themselves. That was the inspiration really for wanting to create a support network for business owners in the UK that don't have that opportunity to sit around a table together, kick the tires on important topics related to the business.