Laurent Kleitman, CEO of Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group

0:11Hello and welcome to the Entrepreneurs on Monocle Radio, the show all about inspiring people, innovative companies and fresh ideas in global business. On today's programme, we meet the CEO of the Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group to hear about the future growth of the brand and what's next in the world of luxury hospitality. We've been present for centuries. Travel has always been a desire of human beings to discover, to engage, to relate. And I don't see that it's coming soon to an end. And travelling is the most important activity of human beings. This is The Entrepreneurs with me, Tom Edwards.

0:55You're listening to The Entrepreneurs. For more than six decades, Mandarin Oriental has been synonymous with luxury and exceptional hospitality. What began with the opening of its flagship hotel in Hong Kong in 1963 has grown into a portfolio that now spans 44 four hotels, 12 residences, and 26 exclusive homes across 27 countries. The group has built a reputation for elegance, service, and innovation, all while remaining proudly anchored in its Asian heritage. Today, as Mandarin Oriental writes its next chapter, it is led by group CEO Laurent Kleinman. A seasoned leader in the world of luxury brands, Laurent has spent 30 years in senior leadership roles with corporations from Unilever to LVMH.

1:39Most recently, he served as president and CEO of Parfum Christian Dior, where he guided the brand's transformation and global expansion across fragrance, beauty and wellness. Monocle's Simon Bouvier sat down with Laurent in our Paris studio to discuss where the luxury hospitality industry stands today, Mandarin Oriental's recent purchase of the Lutetia in Paris, and the brand's starring role in season three of The White Lotus. Laurent Kleitman, CEO of Mandarin Oriental Group, thank you so much for joining us in our Paris studio. Thank you. You were in Paris for a few days. You were based in Hong Kong.

2:16What did you get up to during your visit here? Well, maybe it won't be a surprise, but I'm based in Hong Kong, but I'm French as well. So Paris is also a place I visit quite often for family reasons, but also for business. Paris is a fabulous place for high-end luxury tourism. And the market in general in Europe is very important for us. So I'm quite often in Europe and in Paris in particular. And the group just took over the legendary Lutetia Hotel. Can you tell us a little bit about how that came to be and how you're thinking about this hotel's positioning in this luxury hospitality landscape here, which, as you just said, is really incredibly abundant.

2:59There are so many options. Yeah, there are many options, you're right, in Paris and in France, in Paris in particular. And as I like to say, Lutetia is not a hotel. It's part of the history. And this is what we really love, because being part of history, I mean, there's so many things that you can tell and that people visit, not just for a good stay, but also to be part of a history. And the history of Paris, of course, very much so. Lutetia means Paris in Latin. But also history of the world. The 115 years of history of Lutetia, in fact, is a short for even hospitality. If you remember how it started, it started by Boussico, who was also the founder of the Bon Marché.

3:46And he built a hotel in front of the Bon Marché to host not only clients, but suppliers coming from province and clients visiting and shopping. Therefore, at the very beginning of the history of Lutetia was already experience, which is all what it is hospitality and luxury about today. creating an experience. You come to shop, but also you enjoy Paris lifestyle with great restaurants and great rooms and amenities and so on. So at the very beginning, that hotel has been thought as part of an experience. And this is really what hospitality is today. It's really moved forward to be creating moments.

4:23And therefore, Le Tessier is that kind of property unique in the world. You have a few of those around the world that really have created and are still creating the history of hospitality today and for the future. And I think the kind of legacy aspect of this hotel is very interesting given the history of your own group. You know, your flagship hotels are the Oriental in Bangkok and the Mandarin in Hong Kong, which both have been around, I think, the Oriental for 150 years or something and the Mandarin for 60 or decades at least. How does this kind of heritage fit into your business strategy when you're thinking about the group as a whole?

5:10You're right. We need both. We need iconic, as we call them very often, Grand Damme. Those hotels have been always there, part of the landscape, part of the city fabric. Like in Bangkok, the Oriental, 150 years next year, stunning property, always kept up to date. and with a lot of innovation coming, we can even comment on that in a few minutes if you want. Same with the Mandarin in Hong Kong, 60 odd years at the time, the tallest building in the region and has invented so many things that we take for granted today, like running water and bathtubs in old rooms. So interestingly, we have these Grand Ames that has been there, but they have been always at the beginning very inventive and innovative.

5:56And at the same time, we need to build new. We need to build what will be hospitality in the next decades. We are opening our second hotel in Dubai in just a few weeks. It's the most sustainably built high-rise tower in the Middle East, which is incredibly stimulating, seeing that we have those old properties around the world, like the Ritz in Madrid, the Lutetia in Paris, or the Oriental in Bangkok, and at the same time continue to innovate with new build. And I believe this is what gives the impetus that build what a brand like Mandarin or Antle is capable of doing. And having those properties part of our portfolio is incredibly stimulating for our teams and for our clients.

6:38So how do you think about that balance between making these historic properties current and inventing something that carries your name and everything that it means to your customers, but to build something that's completely new? Do you see some kind of tension there or not at all? The common thread is the Mandarin rental brand DNA and the service that we deliver everywhere. That's what clients are looking for when they travel from one property to another. They know there we're synonymous of outstanding service, but a service with a certain style. We're born in Asia, so we're born from the delicacy of Thai culture mixed with the vibrancy of the Chinese culture from our early days in Hong Kong.

7:22So we're bringing a service which is very different from what I think others are offering. And maybe one example is my own first encounter with what Mandarin Oriental service is. A few years ago, I mean, a decade or more ago, when I was with my kids for the first time ever in the Oriental in Bangkok, not staying, just having dinner for the first time on the terrace of the Cha Pra River, having a meal and, of course, a young kid at the time staining their shirt with sauce and tomato sauce and and really the shirt was absolutely red everywhere and very delicately my my wife was we're a bit shocked because we didn't want that to happen in such a place took the shirt off and and put a t-shirt and we put the shirt aside and really didn't pay attention too much and at the end of the meal the team came back with the shirt clean and pressed and folded and say, well, at least you won't have a stain as a souvenir for your first day at the Oriental in Bangkok.

8:23So we want you to have an experience which is completely free of any worries. And they give us a shirt pressed. I found that quite outstanding because, you know, there's nothing in a book or in any kind of guidelines that says when there is a stain, take the shirt and press it and give it back. And this is what our service is our service is extremely personal, very personalized to the guest needs and to the situation. And we're empowering our colleagues to deliver what matters for you when you're with us. And I believe this is what modern hospitality is today, is making you feeling unique, making you feeling as if you were the only client at the time in the restaurant or in the hotel.

9:07So I think this is a small anecdote that has really hooked me onto that brand for many, many, many years. And when I rejoined, by the way, the maître d 'hôtel who's done that was still there and remember that anecdote. And I reminded him and said, I think on that day, he recruited the CEO of Mandarin Rentals. That's incredible. I think that a lot of people who are fiercely loyal to a specific brand and who seek out their properties wherever they travel, whether it's for work or leisure, they all have these stories about what makes this brand go you know above the competition for them and i'm curious how you know since you just said there's no playbook for it i'm curious how you think about the framework uh that these colleagues are operating and are there new kind of experiences and expectations that are the baseline that you have to put this level of service on top of?

10:09Or is it really all about just creating this spark through exceptional service and then all of the rest doesn't really matter as much? It is exceptional service delivered for people. So that notion of a very human to human service is very, very dear to my heart and to all of us at Mandarin Rental. There are guidelines and there's a lot of training that we, of course have. But what is most important is that everyone is empowered to deliver what matters. And we give a lot of freedom to our colleagues to do that. That empowerment is also very stimulating and very rewarding for teams, for talent. You know, there is a war of talent on talent in hospitality industry.

10:53So having the possibility to tell people, yeah, you come, you're part of a brand called Mandarin Oriental, but you're more importantly, a human being delivering service for clients, and then you're free to deliver it the way you believe is right, is very, very engaging for talent. So having said that, we have a brand and the brand Mandarin Rental has to stand for what you call it exceptional. Giving that exceptional everyday everywhere is our reserve mission. This is what we're encouraging everyone to do. And in that context, we are very lucky to be based on exceptional properties. So the destination is also important.

11:32You don't deliver the same service. You deliver the same kind of service, but in a different manner when you're in New York, in Madrid, in London, or in Bangkok or Hong Kong, when you're in an urban property or when you're in a resort. So there are a lot of adaptation to the service that we are doing. And what we call delivering the essence of the destination, to all of our guests is incredibly important for modern travelers. And one thing I wanted to ask you is also, you know, before taking the reins at Mandarin Oriental, you worked for Dior Cosmetics. And as part of that job, you oversaw this activity related to spas, right?

12:15And I was just curious how you see the crossover between the worlds of beauty and hospitality. and if there was something that when you took this job a few years ago now, I think, you thought, oh, if we implement this, we can really get ahead of the competition. Yeah, there's a lot of crossover between luxury goods and hospitality. Although I really believe hospitality delivering experience as opposed to delivering a physical product is very well placed to catch the trend and the growth wave of luxury for the future. We know that the current market for goods is a little tense at the moment. There are a bit of a shift of how consumers and clients are looking at luxury goods in general.

13:04And it's a phenomenon around the world. When you have already 15 handbags, the 16s you buy is probably less exciting. Same with cosmetics. However, I haven't heard anyone saying, I don't want to take a few days off or reconnect with my family or visiting a place, discovering a museum, and going and try culinary experience somewhere I always wanted to. So the way we deliver experience as opposed to goods is what I really believe is the future of luxury as a whole. And therefore, yes, moving from cosmetic to hospitality is interesting because you still have this attention to details, this incredible narrative that you need to deliver on a brand like Dior.

13:48but at the same time a lot more complex way more complex because if you're buying a lipstick you may spend between 30 seconds and maybe 30 minutes if you buy a handbag you may spend between maybe 30 minutes and three hours and and so on with us you are you know with us for a meal at the least and for up to a few few weeks or months and we take care of you during your sleep which is the most precious things that you have. So the trust that you put in brand like Mandarin or Antle to take care of the time you spend with us has given us a lot more responsibility to deliver that experience. And the touch points you have with the brand are so many.

14:30And therefore, the attention to every single touch points for us as a brand is extremely high. I believe there is a level of complexity, which is probably the most in any of industry I've been working in. But at the same time, and to connect back to your question about cosmetic, the notion of well-being and self-care is one of the key trends we see in hospitality. Of course, you can relax and do many things for your personal beauty at home, but many people coming to a resort, for example, is to spend a week with us, they like to benefit from well-being experiences. So that's why we have developed over the years many techniques on relaxation, well-being, recharge and energy and managing sleep and so on and so forth.

15:19We invented the first spa hotel in the world in the 90s in Bangkok. So we are the one who've created the trend of wellness and well-being in hospitality. That's a key trend we see in this. That's not the only one, but that's a key trend, which is now well developed. So yes, absolutely a deep connection with my previous job. How have you seen this trend evolve and where do you see it going? Specifically the spas and the well-being, the wellness aspect of what it means to be staying at a luxury hotel today? You know, it's moving really from what probably many people still do and know, it's a nice relaxation, massage, and so on, to really taking care of you holistically, making sure that everything in the property speaks to your well-being.

16:08And it's including nutrition, for example, the way we present food to you, the way we present your amenity, the way we, for example, we are curating a completely new service. You know, in luxury hotels, you have what we call a turned-on service when people prepare your room for the night. We call it the sleep ritual. So we have really studied that carefully and are now placing amenities which are in line with what is so crucial nowadays is your restoration, your recover time and your nighttime and your sleep. And we really believe this is one of the essential moments of restoration of your energy that we need to curate for you.

16:47So whether it's about the beverage that we're going to curate for you, whether it's the music we're going to put, whether it's where we place the slippers, where we redesign the environment to prepare for your restoration time, is the way we see, for example, well-being moving really beyond spa. And this is an example, but we have plenty of those that we are currently inventing across the portfolio. I wanted to ask you a question about the HBO show, The White Lotus, in which the Oriental is featured in the third season. To ask a broader question about kind of pop culture and how people perceive luxury hotels.

17:29Do you think it's important for you and your position setting the kind of strategic path for your group to create these opportunities to attract attention from maybe an audience that doesn't know about the history of the Oriental, etc.? Or is it the case that it's more about those who know, know, and we need to kind of focus on our loyal customer base? It's an interesting and complex topic that you're raising, which is how do you communicate about a luxury hotel brand like Mandarin Oriental? Very happy to be featured in season three of White Lotus. It's a funny program. It's great storytelling.

18:10I don't believe this is the only way a brand should be, of course, marketed. Big brands, especially big luxury brands, large luxury brands, have a role to play in pop culture. That I agree. We are cultural icons for a certain target audience, and by no means we are a mass brand. But for those who know us, yeah, we need to belong to the culture. But the way to belong to the culture may be different. The way we collaborate with artists, the way we display arts in our properties, the way we design even properties with the collaboration with artists. For example, we have a project in Mexico on the River Maya in the south of Cancun that we are currently developing and building with the support of a Mexican artist, Bosco Sodi, who is a sculpture and who is helping us to integrate art in a meaningful and relevant manner across the property.

19:05I believe this is really a way to display purpose, which is another big trend of why people travel. People travel to connect to a culture, to connect with a community. Equally, when it comes to shows like White Lotus, I want to also say that we also curate our own assets ourselves. We recently launched a program called Inside the Dream, which you can find on platforms at the moment, which is showing the coulis and all the backstage of Mandarin Oriental across three properties. I'm saying we have now the power as a big luxury brand to create our own programs as well. So we started with Inside the Dream, and there'll be a lot more programs and many more assets that will come in the next few months and you'll see that we'll showcase Mandarin Rental in a very different manner.

19:55Everywhere there is a good narrative when it comes to Mandarin Rental and the narrative is always at the crossroad of the property and the destination. You cannot take a destination and a property out of context. So there is, I think you'll see a new series coming where we're going to feature the property and the history of the property and how that property blends with the community and the history of the place and the destination itself. We call that really, as I said, for clients who really want that, delivering the essence of the destination. This is why you travel. Of course, I'd like to think they travel to go to a Mandarin rental, and they do, but they do travel.

20:37You travel to a location first. That's the destination that matters. And besides this kind of very innovative, I think, approach to communicating about your group. You mentioned earlier in the interview other innovations that are upcoming for your business. Can you tell us more about them? Yeah, we have a very recent innovation just launched, which is our new mobile app. Well, that might sound a bit trivial now after having spoken about art and artists and so on. But the reality is that technology plays a key role in traveling today. and taking off the hassle of traveling, taking off from you all the problems of pre-travel and booking and so on.

21:20So we came up with a mobile app, which is being just rolled out across all our properties, where you can engage with us in a very seamless manner. And we're doing that. Very often I heard that luxury and technology doesn't work together. We need to remain human. And I said, that's exactly why we need technology, is to really release more time for human beings to interact with you as a client, as a human being. If we can take as many things out of the equation and make the technology work harder, then you have a good quality time with the concierge who will advise you what place to visit, with the chef who will help you to curate the meal you want.

22:00But the conversation around why my car was not at the airport or will my car be there to pick me up, I don't think they're adding much value. And therefore, this is what we are going to put through the technology, which is there today. As an example of experience, I'd rather you have time to engage with the chef in our resort in Greece, in Costa Navarino, to pick your fish in the morning with the fisherman that comes to the jetty. And that will curate for you a meal just for you, rather than worrying about mundane things, about booking and travel programs. So this is where I see innovation coming to release even more time for you to enjoy the destination and the experience of Mandarin Oriental.

22:44And kind of an adjacent question that overlaps with technology and with this human contact and enjoying yourself and being in the moment. What do you think about these policies of some hotels that say in this area, you're not allowed to have your cell phone, you're not allowed to have your laptop? that's a good one you know a big trend in hospitality in general is about privacy if you really travel to one of our property and and spend the money that goes with it you really want to be in the moment in the moment i believe there's there are places where yes having your your phone with you might not be the best way to be in the moment and enjoying the space although i don't think we can prescribe to people what they do or don't but don't i mean we We are very much for freedom.

23:33People do what they want to do on our property and if they enjoy their phone. As long as they understand that the real luxury is being with others. The real luxury is the connection with their loved ones if they travel with other people or even learning something about the place and the community they're in at the moment. But there are some of these places where, yes, I mean, if you're really enjoying a great recharge moment in our spa, I would not recommend you to be bothered by your emails and phones notifications for sure. And the privacy aspect of it, of course, you have clients who are high profile and who don't want to be harassed by people who are chasing them around to take their photo and so on and so forth.

24:13How tricky is that for you to balance when you're thinking up of a policy for that? It's a way we are designing our hotels and our results and having more and more places which are potentially hidden from the rest. It's very important when we design the architecture of our hotels. Prided villas are very much on demand within hotel, within results. So, yeah, we're very used to that. And maintaining the privacy of our client is our number one criteria when it comes to delivering the service. One final question I wanted to ask you after this tour d 'horizon is we're obviously in a geopolitical context that makes long-term decision-making for business a bit complicated because we don't know about tariffs.

25:00We don't know about so many things that we took for granted that are now up in the air. As a brand that has operated these properties that have been around for over a century, obviously, you know how to navigate the kind of fluctuations in context. How much is what is going on right now weighing on your business decisions? and how do you balance the long-term and the kind of short-term? We've been here, we've been present for centuries and some of our properties are more than 150 years old. Travel has always been a desire of human being to discover, to engage, to relate. And I don't see that coming soon to an end.

25:50And to the contrary, I believe. Traveling is probably the most important activity of human beings. Discovering others, engaging with different culture, looking at different landscapes and discovering the world and the people around the world, will not fade soon. Of course, short term, there might be issues here and there. And we all, at any economic activity, we see, of course, ups and downs. But our hotels are usually thought for several decades when we come to a place. So on one side, of course, we're managing shorter performances. But we haven't seen, for example, a big shift in the way our clients are traveling this year compared to last year.

26:29To the contrary, we see a very good growth of our business. But even more important, there are many destinations that still need to be discovered. Creating destinations, respecting communities and nature when we come somewhere is, of course, primary importance. But having more destination around the world for discovery is definitely going to happen. I'm very optimistic about the growth of the hospitality industry because people want experiences. You want to discover things you haven't seen. And more importantly, you want time. And the real luxury is time with your loved ones, time with yourself to reconnect with yourself, time to discover something that is worth of discovery.

27:07And our job is to curate that for you, making it for you an exceptional moment. So I am very optimistic about the future of Mandarin Rental. We'll double the size of the company in the next 10 years. And I'm sure we'll be there for the decades to come. A lot of work to do, but certainly very optimistic about the future of the industry. That was Lauren Kleinman, CEO of the Mandarin Oriental Hotel Group. You can find out more by heading to mandarinoriental.com.

27:44And that's all for this episode of The Entrepreneurs. We'll be back at the same time next week. The programme's produced by Laura Kramer with audio editing by Jack Dewars. Listen again and find out more about the show at monocle.com or follow us and browse the archive wherever you get your podcasts. If you'd like to get in touch with the team, email Laura on lrk at monocle.com. I'm Tom Edwards. Goodbye, and thanks for listening to The Entrepreneurs.