Pullman Voices: Amelia Christie-Miller

0:02What does disrupting an industry look like? Is tearing things up and starting from scratch the most effective way? Or is it in fact the quieter revolutions, the subtle rewiring of assumptions that can cause the biggest impact? This is Pullman Voices, the podcast by Monocle Radio that offers fresh perspectives from cultural pioneers, business leaders and creative minds, challenging how we see and engage with the world. I'm your host, Tom Edwards. Today's episode is all about productive disruption and our guest is Amelia Christie Miller, the founder of Bold Bean Co. I mean, they're just so delicious and people just didn't see them that way and that's what I really wanted to change and I do believe that brands have the power to change how people consume and behave.

0:49I've always found that really inspiring because I wanted to do the same for beans. A former private chef and food sustainability consultant, Amelia has long been obsessed with brands that have the power to shape consumer behaviour. After a magical taste experience with a Spanish butter bean, she became increasingly convinced that the humble legume had the power to do just that. And in 2021, Bold Bean Co. and its curated selection of high-quality chickpeas and bean variations was born. In order to make a dusty pantry filler take centre stage, Amelia had a number of challenges. How do you shift age-old narratives?

1:24If consumers are growing bored of sustainability credentials and targeted ads, how do you cunningly convert them into loyal customers? And is it possible to marry an ambition for growth with a strong commitment to work-life balance? In today's conversation, I meet Amelia Christie Miller to find out that at Bold Bean Co., disruption goes far deeper than just the product.

1:49Amelia, a warm welcome to Monocle. Good to have you with us. Thanks for having me. And I should say it's funny, we have so many amazing entrepreneurs, business founders who pass through these buildings. But when I told some colleagues that Bold Bean Co was in and Amelia was here, people were so excited. And I think that speaks to a degree of enthusiasm and real passion for the brand you've created. Was that part of the, I don't know, the objective right at the start of the journey? I suppose that like the conception of Bold Bean came from my work in food sustainability. So the why I launched the business comes from, you know, a sustainable background from health, like all of these things which actually just deeply resonate with people full stop.

2:31So I think what underpins beans is just like brilliance. They are the world's best food. I'm so confident to say that. So as soon as people dig more, they really connect with the why behind what we're doing. So I'd say that's purposeful. But I think the reason why people really get excited about it, I think, is because it's kind of silly to be obsessed with beans because they've had this kind of sad, dusty, dull, hippie fodder sort of preconception. So then suddenly if someone's excited about beans, it's kind of a bit weird. So it's a bit more funny to talk about. You know, if you're obsessed with chocolate, that's boring.

3:05But if you're obsessed with beans, you're like, what? You're obsessed with beans? I mean, that's what I had when I, you know, first thought of the idea. People were so disappointed that after years of working with sexy restaurants, I was launching a bean business, not like a truffle butter business. But I kind of loved that tension point because I think it's where it becomes funny and playful and our brand speaks to that as well. And obviously healthy debate is part of the agenda and it's disruptive. I don't know whether it annoys you if people say, well, you've disrupted this sector or the products themselves are disruptive.

3:38Do you agree with that label? Do you wear it lightly? And what do you understand by being a disruptive player? I love that label because it's innovative. It's showing kind of that change that we're trying to make. I would say that one thing that we are trying to do, which is different to disruptive brands, is we're trying to really grow the category and be incremental to the category instead of stealing from the market leader. Whereas actually we want to bring people into beans who have previously kind of been ambivalent. How do you then continue to be disruptive once you become mainstream? It is a name now.

4:12People know it. And so it's, I guess, harder to surprise because there's that healthy familiarity that comes as you begin to build your sort of brand. Is it important to retain some of that, whether it's playfulness, a bit of disruptiveness? How do you continue to be the innovator once you've kind of put down your roots a bit and you've got some presence in the marketplace? Yeah, it's so funny. I still feel we're so early in our journey. And like whilst kind of in certain, like particularly in London, there's far more awareness around what we do. You know, we've still got the whole of the UK to conquer and bring so many people into beans.

4:48We've got a very loyal customer, which is sort of driving our sales, but actually we want to make it a broad customer. So I sort of still feel there's so much more to disrupt around how people think about beans. And that's why our kind of cookbooks are really important, because it's not just having an exceptional product. It's also creating that space in people's minds for, oh, I'm going to have butter bean puttanesca for dinner rather than chicken stir fry. It's like we're actually quite simple beings. People have very repetitive meals in the UK. And like, how do we enter into that kind of repertoire of repetitive meals?

5:21I don't think we're there yet. I think we've got so much more to do to get beans on everyone's meal plans. Let's go back. You mentioned this idea about surprising people when they saw that you'd gone from these conversations with chefs and you talk about food sustainability into this sort of quite specific area. What were some of the narratives? If we just roll the clock back around food sustainability, climate friendly cookery generally, that prompted you to say, I'm not just going to talk about it. I'm not going to do advisory. I'm going to make the thing that makes the difference. What were some of those conversations and why did they trigger your entrepreneurial journey?

5:57Yeah, so in food sustainability, people will know, you know, there's a huge soil health challenge that we've got. And luckily, there's more and more awareness around this. But beans are kind of fundamental crop in regenerating the soil because they naturally fertilize the soil with nitrate fixes. They take nitrogen from the air, put it into the soil, which, you know, we're often using kind of chemical based fertilizers. So it's a natural way. It's actually history's kind of longer standing fertilizer that people just forgot about. And I think when I was learning about the soil health thing, you know, as someone who loves food and loves nature, it really upset me and scared me, to be honest.

6:36So finding a solution in beans was that was a really big, pivotal point. And then on the flip side, I was working with these chefs who were in their kind of move towards more climate conscious cooking. they weren't celebrating the sort of fake ultra processed meats that were all the rage at the time all VC backed kind of booming at the time they were celebrating just like really good quality plants and legumes because legumes are really hearty they've got protein and I was seeing them cook quality legumes and I think as you know I used to be a private chef I love food I love cooking it's my passion I found that in my move towards kind of reducing meat and eating more plant-based.

7:18I didn't want a fake bit of bacon. I wanted just like an incidentally delicious meal and beans were at the heart of that. So these things came together. And then on top of that, I went into the British Library, got all the data, which I recommend anyone starting a business go there. And I saw, you know, early signs of the backlash against ultra processed foods, also gut health and all of these kind of health trends. Health wasn't a major motivator for me, but I think it was pivotal in kind of proving the opportunity for the business as well, which you need. And then the final thing is actually food security, which is something which, you know, global food security, we need to rely on a multitude of crops.

7:55And beans have thousands of varieties. There's a bean that can grow in a desert. And it's like, actually, with climate change, we need to kind of build up demand for these kind of crops that really connected with me as well. And I became bean mad. I mean, they're just so delicious. And people were just didn't see them that way. And that's what I really wanted to change. And I do believe that brands have the power to change how people consume and behave. And I've always found that really inspiring. So I wanted to do the same for Beans. Do you think there are lessons, I mean, that are relevant then to whole other sectors about not just that sort of fearlessness and the sort of bravura that you need, but in this idea of, I don't know, reframing the narrative?

8:37Do you think, you know, that businesses in other whole sectors could learn from the Bold Bean story or is it is it kind of a play that works because it's about food because it's about sustainability because it's about health those narratives meet together i like to think that actually because the intent and the purpose was built from the get-go it kind of the conception of the brand came from that purpose and my my passion for food sustainability that there was like in a very authentic cell and i think that a lot of brands see a gap in the market from a commercial standpoint and then build purpose retrospectively with a commercial agenda whereas I think that our superpower has been that it is it's so genuine kind of what we stand for and why we believe in beans we're not trying to hoodwink anyone into you know just buying our product commercializing I think that's been really helpful so I would say you know in other sectors if there's authenticity behind their purpose and belief in what they're doing it helps every single you know part of business.

9:37It helps your partnerships. It helps motivating your team because it's real. And I think that a lot of particularly established brands trying to retrospectively build in purpose, you can tell it's not real. And people are so attuned to that nowadays. And consumers, you're right, their expectations are pegged a lot higher. But interestingly, you haven't built the marketing strategy around all of these positive stories. You mentioned food security and all the rest of it was that a conscious decision not to lean into that too much obviously the information is there and it does check those boxes but as a brand it's been built on other parts of the messaging was that quite a conscious decision not to just sort of put your eggs in that basket so initially i was so torn i was like well we're vegan so i should talk about that i mean you know we're good for the soul so we should talk about that and and all of these different messaging i was just kind of a mess and kind of so in love and excited that i I wanted to share everything.

10:32And then I began a relationship with a brand strategist who was kind of helping us. And he just really helped simplify. He was like, you need to be around this uncompromising experience of eating. And actually, if you start selling the fact that you're vegan or you start selling the fact that, you know, you're really good for the soil, it implies a compromise on taste. And it was the best advice ever. He was just like, just stick to that one message. And I really took on board that advice. And it has really shaped the strategy. And also people like talking about brands, but if they're always worthy with a worthy kind of undertone, people also don't like being perceived as worthy.

11:09So they don't want to say, oh, I'm really good because I'm eating beans because they're good for the soil environment. They want to be like, this is really delicious. And then those kind of things sit in the background and I think really help support the whole story. I wanted to ask you a bit about more about marketing, the marketing story, because, well, you explain this to me. You don't necessarily do sort of paid ads, but there's a lot of storytelling. telling. And I think if people are on certain social media, they will see how devout your followers are. Tell me a bit about that approach. And again, what were some of the principles that shaped the early decision making in that respect?

11:41Yeah, I mean, I came from a food tech startup that was very underfunded. And then I brought on a co-founder who worked with me at that startup. And both of us had had this approach of constantly living in frugality. So kind of really wanting to be really lean in how we approach things. And that was actually a gift because it helped think creatively in terms of our marketing approach to not just run a load of paid ads and see how that goes, but actually how do we earn people's time and earn people's interest? And I think that kind of shaped the content strategy. And I've also, you know, I've been very interested in the creator kind of economy and how that's grown.

12:19And we've tried to kind of position ourselves as a creator. and a year before launching I was sharing you know bean recipes I recognized that was a fundamental part of it and I think that has really helped and then this has all been done off instinct and I kind of I do think we're going to reach a point where we need to change that and explore paid media angles because that's how you scale that's how you can create a playbook to launch a new markets etc but today it's been really helpful at kind of guiding us because we've had this kind of small brand energy. And I suppose because I'm quite attuned to brands who are like mass targeting me on Instagram, I really don't like it.

12:57I feel like I'm reminded that I'm a consumer. And I feel like consumers nowadays don't want to be reminded that they're consumers. They want to feel part of something in a community. And I think that our approach of actually just giving to our community, giving them lots of recipes, giving them a sense of like fun and excitement rather than constantly trying to convert them means that actually word of mouth has been one of our biggest drivers. And actually nowadays, because there's such a lack of trust in brand marketing and everyone's kind of trying to convert me and make me a customer, that is the most powerful way of being recommended is not through, you know, an affiliate code or an ad, but actually meeting someone for dinner and then obsessively talking about beans.

13:39That's gold, really. And just to come back to that point you made about not just being sort of a brand evangelist, but trying to get people to look at a whole food group and a sector a bit differently. In a way, that's kind of a, well, it's a sort of a more inclusive approach. There's a generosity of spirit. It's not just about building this business and then floating over the web. It's about trying to change mass behaviour. Do you think that you can do that and still run a successful business? Because again, I imagine some potential partners might say, well, well, Or, you know, you don't want to big up the rest of the marketplace.

14:11It's got to be all you, all you, all you. But actually, is it very important that it is more inclusive and sort of holistic about the whole space? Definitely. And I mean, if we're suddenly damning on canned beans, which are a really affordable, you know, amazing product that people can cook with, then suddenly we're very inauthentic with actually what we stand for. And like our goal is to make people obsessed with beans. And our approach right now is giving people really delicious beans they can eat straight from the jar and baked beans, which are kind of gourmet, bringing people back into that.

14:43But, you know, if everyone was eating canned beans, then we wouldn't have a need. And I think that we definitely see our role as growing the whole category. and what's actually quite special is if you think about most food groups and most, you know, consumer brands in the supermarket, they're often challenging a brand that's already existing and being the kind of challenger to that brand. But that brand that they're challenging is often they own that food group. But no one actually owns beans. Obviously, Heinz owns baked beans, but there's no brand that really owns beans. So we have this amazing opportunity to kind of take up that vacuum and be the leader for Beans, which is what, you know, other kind of mega brands do.

15:29You know, Kellogg's for cereal, like they're kind of championing cereal. We can do that for Beans as a challenger, which is actually very unusual. And I think it's been really amazing for us. I've read some interesting stuff you said before about your team and how you try a bit like founders who try to encourage ownership of mistakes, right? Because of the power of learning. You talk about this need to nurture a feeling, a sense of vulnerability in your team. Can you tell me a bit about that? Because I think lots of people would imagine like founders, kick ass, like no room for emotion, no room for vulnerability.

16:01But you have made that explicit. Why is that important? I think it starts from, you know, who also I am. And I do not know everything. And I have not known everything. And actually, I've seen vulnerability as a superpower. because as soon as you kind of admit that you can get amazing advice and kind of take it on and so I think that's an important part of it I also we're a fully remote business we've got five team members in Spain we've got someone in Edinburgh we've got someone in Sheffield I'm really passionate about making that work and I see it as like a really exciting opportunity for us but it also means that actually if you are working from home alone and you're feeling a bit worried about something that's happened or something you did or something you don't know So if you've got a guard up, you're never going to be able to connect, be able to kind of feel better about the situation, but also be able to improve the situation.

16:52Whereas if we can kind of really champion vulnerability, then it's kind of encouraged to be open in those environments. And I think in a remote culture, it's even more important. So, yeah, I see it as a real superpower and, you know, also a way of reducing ego in startups, which is very important. I've heard that can be a problem. Look, we started about being disruptive, this fresh insight, but having this absolute conviction about something. Once you're starting to run a ship that becomes, it takes on, you know, momentum of its own. It's got a team. It's got fans. It's got advocates. How do you ensure, Amelia, that you're continuing yourself to challenge your own expectations, continuing to innovate not doing things the way you do them because it works that's presumably as you get more successful becomes more difficult because why why rock the boat so how do you make sure that you're personally professionally and as a member of the team encouraging that quest innovation to keep happening i think it's about curiosity and speaking to a lot of people who've done it before and i think you know we kind of have this idea about bringing the outside in and And the more you speak to people, the more you learn.

18:08And for example, with our marketing strategy, which has worked really well, I don't think it's going to be able to work like this forever. And I think that also I'm not going to be the right leader for that department forever. So we're hiring for a marketing director at the moment, which is going to be a huge role and kind of a scary role, but also quite scary for me. And it's something I'm very passionate about. But I also think it's, you know, bringing in people who are better than you, who've got experience. that is when you kind of are really kind of building for the next phase of growth and that's what we need to do and you know i'm aware of what my strengths have got us to here but we're going to need very different set of strengths as we as we move forward okay so easy question then what is success what does that look like so i see it as you know the uk eating you know average household eating beans three days a week three meals a week it's actually not that much but it's a lot more than what's happening now.

19:04But that, for me, reflects the kind of cultural impact that we could have. I want us to be the brand that made people love beans. Like Oatly was the brand that put oat milk on the map, you know, but I want to be, that's what I want us to be known for. And I kind of see that as synonymous with us being obviously in like full distribution, in different markets. You know, we want to continue our recipe kind of function of the business or kind of part media company because I think it's such a great way of getting people excited about the food group. So that for me is success, is that if we are kind of a cultural norm rather than novelty.

19:41What about personal success? Is it inextricably bound up together? Or do you have to, I don't know, almost try to untangle those things so that you have your own sort of fulfillment and life and needs, and then that of Amelia, the founder, or are they just too tangled up? That's a really great question. I think they're beginning to become untangled. I mean, the success of Bold Bean, I have to put way above the success of me, because actually, if I start wanting all that, that will stop me from doing what's best for the business. So I have to see them as synonymous. But sometimes it is going to be hard because I know my role is going to transition as the business scales and my skill set becomes better suited to a smaller part of the business and less overseeing the whole thing.

20:25like that's going to be hard for me but I am trying to also reframe that with you know I really want to also create a life where you know I've always said this and both me and my co-founder you know we don't work till 11 at night we don't glamorize overworking we live good lives we work really hard and we care so much but we are not kind of compromising sleep and the people we love and that I feel is something I want to continue with I want my team to continue with and that that is success, isn't it? But, you know, who knows? Who knows for me? I think I'll wait to feel really redundant in the business and then probably have an identity crisis.

21:04But hopefully I'll get over that and find something else to be passionate about if, you know, if for some reason we've completed beans. Really, look, it's been great fun hearing about Bold Bean Co. A brilliant journey. And fab to have you unpack it all for us. Thanks for coming to speak to us today. Thanks for having me.

21:28Our thanks to Amelia Christie Miller for an inspiring look at what young brands can achieve. This is Pullman Voices, a Monocle Radio production for Pullman Hotels. This episode was produced by Paige Reynolds and executive produced by Holly Fisher. I'm Tom Edwards. Next time, we're in New Delhi, where we speak to think tank leader Shalini Goyalpala about the circular economy and its power to drive innovation. It's a huge opportunity. It's an opportunity not only for the companies who are manufacturing, already manufacturing plastic, but also for the new startups to think of solutions that could bring back this plastic to circulation.

22:06For more on Pullman Voices, head to Pullman's Instagram page at Pullman Hotels. And for more information and hotel bookings, you can visit pullman.accor.com. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, head to monocle.com forward slash radio or wherever you get your podcasts. to follow and subscribe.