Pullman Voices: Dumi Oburota

0:03What does it mean to be truly present? Is it getting everyone in the same room? Is it the way you engage in a conversation? How can you harness these skills to make meaningful? progress. This is Pullman Voices, the podcast by Monocle Radio that offers fresh perspectives from cultural pioneers, business leaders and creative minds, challenging how we see and engage with the world. I'm your host, Tom Edwards. Today we're talking about the power of being present and our guest is Dumio Barota. You have to have a level of professionalism down to just even timekeeping. When you go into the room, make sure you're present, make sure you talk to everybody, make sure you look into everyone's eyes and greet them and make sure your presence is felt, you know, like just the foundations.

0:54Dumi's the founder of Disturbing London, a multifaceted entertainment company that's home to a record label, a brand consultancy and events organiser, among other things. However, when it started out in 2006, it was just Dumi and the first artist he managed, the British rapper Tiny Temper, who quickly rose to fame. Today, Dumi also owns the drinks brand Severin, on which he collaborates with a South African vineyard to create high-end sparkling wines. Whether he's signing a record deal or starting a new business, Dumi knows the power of being present. Today, he talks through some of the significant moments in his life and career where his ability to connect with other people has pushed things forward.

1:43Tell me a little bit about what the power of being present means to you. Generally, you've had such a successful career in music where it's fundamental. Why is it important to be present, to be in the moment, to be with people? The power of presence is all about connection. And there's a magical kind of beautiful thing that happens between people once you engage on a common ground. And I think it's the most natural state for humans to connect in a sense where you let your ego down, everything just drops and you're just connecting on a human level. And I think especially in industries that there's so much ego, especially in my industry and probably in your industry interviewing people.

2:28Once you can have a real connection, a soulful connection between two people, that's where you get the pure magic. When did you sort of first realize, Demi, that you understood and could almost harness the power of that connection to do interesting things? It all starts fundamentally from emotional intelligence. I remember the first time when I started actually knowing that I had a high level of emotional intelligence and I started using it to my benefit is maybe when I was in school, primary school really. I wasn't the most academic and I wasn't really flourishing in school, but I had strong connections with my teachers.

3:06So even if I wasn't actually doing really well in school, they always would give me encouragement or I would have a deeper relationship with my teachers. There was even I had a head teacher. She was Polish and I wasn't like a teacher's pet. But I remember I used to go into her office when I was younger in primary school, like when we're meant to be at playtime. And we used to just talk. And she used to tell me about her parents were in the concentration camps. and I used to talk to her about my life and my parents being from Nigeria and we just had a really deep connection. I always had an interest in communicating with people and I enjoyed that and that was the thing that I thought amongst my peers I could identify that I was much more advanced in that space.

3:49So I flourished in that way, you know, and then I remember you get to 11 and you're starting to apply for schools. There was a school that I went to, I tried to go to school, It was a grammar school, but I knew I wasn't going to do the best in my exam. But I knew if I had an interview, I'm going to get it. I knew when I got into the interview, I just thought, you know what, I can put myself forward. I can connect to the people. And then I got into all the schools. So I would definitely say in primary school and when I was younger, having deeper relationships with people that were older than me, I realized that being present in those spaces and giving people time and just listening and communicating, and I feel people could, like they were talking to me on a level.

4:32It was on the same level as them. It wasn't, they weren't talking to me like I was a little kid. So I realised, okay, cool, if you could level up your communication, even if you're not communicating like an adult, you're communicating on a spiritual level, just as people, there's a deeper connection. And so I wouldn't say I knew exactly what that was, but I knew that if I communicated to people in an honest, authentic way, it had an impact. And that's really interesting because I guess there are echoes with how artists, performers can also do that, connect with people on a human level. They can command a space.

5:07They can hold a room. This is like that, but I guess it's slightly different if you think of the way artists in your stable manage to capture people's attentions. There's a different dynamic going on, but it taps into the same values. Do you think that's one of the reasons why you have fostered these strong relationships with your artists? Because you understand what it means to them to have those moments, those powerful personal moments. Tom, that's 110%. You know, like I always said, creativity and being an artist is a very intimate process. And it's a process that they hold so close to their hearts.

5:42and so I always didn't take lightly the process of them allowing me into their their world or their most vulnerable state you know I would always say within my company you're a person with talent you're not a product and when I would say your person is because before your talent I want to know who you are and what drives you you know I mean and so I always definitely have had very close relationships with the artist I would call myself like a creative whisperer because sometimes they're not able to articulate themselves sometimes when all the thoughts are going through their head creatively it can come out in art or it comes out in the record or it comes out in the way they dress but when you're trying to articulate it to the business or you'd say you know to the major labels or the people that are investing in them their partners they're not able to articulate exactly what they want but I'm able to communicate to them in an intimate way where they tell me what they want and I can protect their values and go and talk to the labels and get what they want it has served me well let's go back a little bit to the start of building some of those relationships and I think am I right in saying to me that you sort of did you drop out of uni to look after uh tiny temper that's a gamble yeah but I sense and we spoke a little bit before about this you had this deep conviction it was the right thing to do how did you know was that built again on the strength of that interpersonal relationship.

7:05As we always say, it's like sometimes there's a zeitgeist and serendipity puts two people together, you know? And obviously I wanted to get into music. Tiny was an aspiring artist and we met each other through our family. I just was in university at the time. He was 16, first year in college. So at the time, when we met each other, he's very talented but he's the oldest in his family and I'm the oldest boy in my family and he needed like an older brother to kind of teach him the ways you know and just really like it was more of a mentorship it was a mentorship really I always thought to myself if he was around somebody that could mentor him you know sharpen his tools giving the experience everything I had learned at the time some of the interests that I was in that if he absorbed that and understood that he could be a mega superstar and that was the point of our relationship for like six years before he was signed he would come around my house stay around my house I built a studio for him and so he was my little brother I looked after him we sharpened each other's tools at the time because i needed him he needed me and it just worked you know and there's obviously an almost indescribable chemistry where you have that thing but even though it's indescribable i'm going to ask you to try and describe it a little bit if you're in a room like that you said you look you build a studio there so i don't know how the creative cooperation or tensions express themselves can you describe what what went on in those moments look it started just when tiny was younger okay if you if you want to be successful you have to have a level of professionalism down to just even timekeeping down to you know when you go into the room make sure you're present make sure you talk to everybody make sure you look into everyone's eyes and greet them and make sure your presence is felt you know like there's the foundations down to your craft if you're in the studio you have to be in the studio i always used to say to you can't leave your destiny in a third party's hand.

9:21So if he ever was recording, I would really be like, have you finished the record? And he'll be like, oh no, this person said they were going to do it. And I'll be like, you can't do that. You have to finish the record. You have to chase them because you can't blame anybody if you're not successful. You know, just some fundamentals like that. And then he's taking that on. And then creativity, there's always, you could say, disagreements with creativity. If art, if there's no disagreements with art, then I would always say it's not real art. And there's a trust in the process. You should have a team that you trust.

9:55Yeah, he drives the art, but you should have people around you that you trust their opinion. And they're very clear with what your objective is and where you want to go to. And if you're going off course, those people around you should be able to say, that's not where you want to go. You wanted to do this and you have to trust that process. How do you bring those people together? Because part of it is bringing in people that are going to disagree with you. And that's tough, especially if you've got a clear vision. You don't want to foster dissent and people to disagree. But at the same time, you know that you might get better outcomes if people bring a diversity of views.

10:30so as the management business the label grows you just said the other t-word trust you've got to trust people and yet you want to make sure everything is on point and how you would see it so how do you go about finding those people let alone then making sure they're schooled in the same values that that you have was that was that difficult or was it yeah did you find finding those people easy or yeah do me in 2010 is a different do me that's 2025 you know i'm wiser i'm much more open for people's opinions but when you're so you've got laser focus and you're almost got you're like a racehorse you've got your blinkers and you just see the destination you need to get there at that time sometimes you can have people around you that you trust are more i would say they maintain your vision because you may not want anybody to come in and overly like have influence on your vision and sway it to that way you know so you've got people that believe in what you're doing and they're helping you with your vision so at the time I had people that around me that I really respected were really hard workers and people that actually believed that I could take them to the destination that they wanted to get to and they believed in that and we believed in each other after a while and i experienced more success i realized actually i don't want to be the smartest person in the room i want people that are actually better than me and actually now i want people that are going to tell me no d that's not a good idea this is where we should go and i can listen and i can be like okay cool you talk about that journey of the business the evolution 2010 to 25 as we are now yeah another thing that's changed so much in that time frame is the digital realm the tools at your disposal the sort of crazy growth in social media and so on yeah um and we're talking about being in the room these relationships it's superhuman it's so personal it's very intimate often what's digital communications done to some of those dynamics well has that had an effect it's had a massive effect on people's interpersonal skills how they interact with each other you could be in a room and have a whole room with people even an office space no one's actually talking you started seeing it happen in like 2012 2014 you know you could be in the room when I was in the office I hated that people would just send emails to each other and you could be in the same room and I would almost be like come and talk to me why don't you guys talk to each other it's almost like hot I call it hot potato business it's almost like here you take it and then no one knows I'm like but why didn't you just talk because talking is you get quicker answers you understand you know you could get feeling even in the music industry now how many new talents are breaking every year is diminishing especially in the west because that comes from maybe a lack of interaction a lack of people going into the studio actually finding things just relying on ai to do things or relying on data or relying on tiktok to find things you should be in the flow if you're just living breathing connecting that's how creativity is formed and i feel like because everybody somebody done it this way then everybody forgets the old way and there is some great things that technology a massive great things that technology has done for the world, but there's some just natural connections, things that we just have to do as humans.

14:13We can't forget about that because that's just not how we're built. Let's talk a little bit about your wine brand, Severin, because I think one thing that's really interesting in the context of this exchange, it's in F &B, it's about hospitality, it's wine, drinking together, breaking bread. Again, a very fundamental human thing. Do you think, Dimi, that's one of the reasons, not only why Severin was interesting to you, but why it's become successful. It's because, again, it involves something that's, okay, you can have a great business plan or whatever, but ultimately people are going to enjoy this experience.

14:46They're going to sit together, drink together. It's a human thing. Is that on some level what appealed to you at the beginning? Sparkling wine or champagne has always been the thing that we use to celebrate and connect, you know? And so that was a fundamental, or maybe my life has always, not always, but in these recent years, we've drank a lot of champagne, you know, like to celebrate. And we've had some like really special moments with lots of bubbles. So I did do it for that reason first. But then once we started developing Severin and then you realised why making was and what sparkling wine does and how, you know, natural that process is in terms of whoever, whatever level, if I give you a bottle of sparkling wine, you're going to be happy and you're going to actually remember it.

15:37You're going to use it in a special moment, but you're going to remember every time you open that bottle, you're going to be like, D gave me that bottle. I definitely think in terms of, it has been about connection. It's about storytelling. It's about the story of the wine. It's things you remember, what you spoke about when you opened that bottle of wine. So yeah, it's great. The connections are great. The whole process of winemaking is a deep connection. you know even from our partners at the winery the family it's a deep thing it's a very intimate process it was exactly like dealing with artists because it was very intimate to them well let me ask you a bit more about that because i sort of know that you had to i don't know if it's convincing is the right word but there was some skepticism and there was some complexities but once again when you sat with people and like you said earlier looked eye to eye you could get them to understand your your vision so it's lovely that even the creation of the literal product itself was the consequence of one of those moments you know when you go around and you're trying to develop a wine you have to go to lots of the wineries and a lot of them they've been doing it for a long time this was a family business so they got on the phone to us we were like we really like your product and we'd like to do a deal with you create a brand and start selling the product and I remember when we were on the phone, you know where they're going back and forth, it was a Zoom.

16:57They were in South Africa. They were talking about the process and what we're going to do and on the call, it was me, Dan, our CEO at the time and my founder, Matt Ellick and it was almost like us closing a deal. It was reminiscent to me of like closing a record deal and when they were talking about things, it was so intimate to them. Their dad had passed and it was two brothers and sisters they're carrying on their family legacy and there were certain things that maybe one of us said and I just saw their attention go and it's almost like nah this is not for us and I just had to say to the guys listen just don't say anything so I just really focused in and spoke to him and told him why I was trying to do it and where the idea came from and how much I was going to respect their process and respect them as a family and everything they had done was important and if they didn't do what they did we wouldn't be in the position of trying to talk to them and it was always about me respecting their process and having that intimate connection you know and that happened at the time and I remember Nikki who's the she's the founder now she does the whole process and she was just like at the end of it she was like I'm in you can do it and I was like and then all the guys were like D you're the best at that how did you do that and I was just like I've been in those situations so many times I could just see that you know it's so sensitive when you're dealing with creatives there's one thing that you could say and they're just like that's not the thing that's not for me you know and I'm the same too you know so we were able to connect again and presence was there and me talking to their soul allowed us to do the deal that's beautiful that kind of brings us back to where we started which was about these fundamentals in the end it's we all have a soul where we're engaging as humans as a sort of a business leader, as a benchmark of someone who's delivered excellence in lots of different fields.

18:54What are some of the things that enable you to keep true to those values and to ensure that your own kind of personal brand always shines through on all the different things that you do? Yeah, I really just try to stick to my core beliefs. If your intimate team knows who you are, what you are, what you represent, that's very important because these are the people that are going to go out and tell people who you are. That truth has served me well. And so I feel if the majority of people that have had interaction with you know your core beliefs and what you stand for, I think that's really important.

19:33In the process of life, success, money, it changes people's perspective or what they felt they should have happened or what did happen. And, you know, as they say, like people rewrite history with success. And I've learned that. But all I can do is just stay true to my core beliefs and the reasons why I did it, you know. And that's what I try to do.

20:07Our thanks to Dumi Oberota for joining us on the podcast today. This is Pullman Voices, a Monocle Radio production for Pullman Hotels. This episode was produced by Holly Fisher and researched by Paige Reynolds. I'm Tom Edwards. Next time, we speak to the founder of The Do Lectures, David Hyatt, about how being open to continual learning has shaped his career. It was the first moment where I suddenly realised that writing something to really connect with another human being was really powerful. even on like a post office door. I used writing to stand out and it got me out of a hole. For more on Pullman Voices, head to Pullman's Instagram page at Pullman Hotels.

20:50And for more information and hotel bookings, you can visit pullman.accord.com. If you enjoyed listening to this episode, head to monocle.com forward slash radio or wherever you get your podcasts to follow and subscribe.

21:08Thank you.