In short
Podcast Notes: The Ezra Klein Show - "This Is How the Democratic Party Beats Trump"
Episode Overview In this episode, Ezra Klein discusses the strategies the Democratic Party must adopt to be successful against Donald Trump and the Republican Party. He emphasizes the necessity of not just winning more voters but winning in more places, proposing a multifaceted approach to representation that goes beyond traditional political identities.
Key Themes and Concepts
- Diversity of Representation:
- The Democratic Party should embrace a range of ideologies, including populism, moderation, and socialist perspectives.
- Winning over diverse demographics requires a broader representation rather than a singular ideology.
- Current Political Landscape:
- Democrats are leading in upcoming elections, yet historical polling suggests they need to adapt to changing voter sentiments.
- Power dynamics in American politics are influenced by geography, not just popular vote. Democrats must rethink their strategy to reflect this reality.
- Cultural Alienation:
- There is a pervasive feeling among former Democratic voters of being alienated from the party, stemming from a cultural disconnect.
- Many voters believe that the Democratic Party does not understand or respect them.
- Local vs. National Politics:
- The impact of national media and social media has led to a loss of local political character, intensifying national divisions.
- Politicians now struggle with overwhelming and often misleading information due to social media dynamics.
- Coalition Building:
- Democrats need to build coalitions that include a wide range of views, especially in districts where they traditionally struggle.
- Flexibility in political ideology can lead to successful policy-making and representation.
- Challenges of Populism:
- Simply adopting a populist stance may not resonate with voters who feel marginalized by the current political discourse.
- There’s a need to connect with voters on issues they care about, rather than projecting an agenda deemed popular in more progressive circles.
- Democratic Party Dynamics:
- The party has become larger and more inclusive on the left but has also closed itself off from moderates and conservatives.
- Embracing internal disagreement and promoting respectful dialogue is crucial for the party’s growth and success.
Key Arguments
- Need for Genuine Relationships:
- Klein emphasizes the importance of genuine relationships in politics, arguing that understanding and respecting differing opinions is vital for building effective coalitions.
- The Role of Media and Attention:
- The podcast highlights the challenge of navigating a political atmosphere dominated by social media algorithms favoring conflict and sensationalism over substantive discussion.
- Historical Context:
- Klein refers to past Democratic successes when the party was able to encompass a variety of viewpoints and still enact significant legislation (e.g., the Affordable Care Act).
Conclusion The episode underscores the importance of adaptability and understanding in the Democratic Party's approach to politics. By embracing a diverse range of viewpoints and fostering genuine relationships with constituents, the party can better position itself to win over voters and compete effectively in future elections.
Key Takeaways
- The Democratic Party must not limit itself to a single ideology but must expand its representation.
- Local engagement and understanding voters' cultural contexts are crucial for success.
- Building coalitions that bring together different perspectives is essential for effective governance and political power.
- Embracing dialogue and tackling internal disagreements can strengthen the party and enhance its appeal across a wider electorate.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:15Инстаграм
0:22Субтитры сделал DimaTorzok
0:47Do they need to become more populist, more moderate, more socialist? Do they need to embrace the abundance agenda? Do they need to produce more vertical video? The answer is, yes, they do. All of them. But none of them in particular. The Democratic Party does not need to choose to be one thing. It needs to choose to be more things. In a few days, there will be elections for governor of New Jersey, for mayor of New York City and for governor of Virginia. Democrats are leading in all these races. As of now, polling averages show the Democrat up by about seven points in Virginia and about four in New Jersey.
1:28But these aren't unusual leads in what have become reliably Democratic states. You can imagine a world where the violence and corruption of Donald Trump's first nine months in office had led to a collapse in support for him and his party. We'll see what Election Day actually brings, but we do not look to be in that world. Donald Trump is not beating himself. That's all the more true if you look a year out to the midterms. In the Real Clear Politics polling average, Democrats are leading by about 2.5 points when you ask Americans which party they want to see control Congress. At about this time in 2017, Democrats were up by about 10 points in that very same average.
2:09Субтитры создавал DimaTorzok
2:47Девушки отдыхают...
3:10Доброе утро!
3:40В 2010, когда Афгария Акады, Демократы held Senate seats в Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Louisiana, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Dakota, and West Virginia. Какие из этих страны остались в reach для демократов сегодня? В американской политике, power не решается по popular vote. В Демократе, в Которе, в Которе, в Которе, of representatives, and particularly in the Senate. It is apportioned by place. This is the problem for Democrats. They don't just need to win more people. They need to win more places. And that requires a different kind of thinking. If Zoran Mamdani wins the New York City mayor's race, running as a Democratic Socialist...
4:28I am both a Democratic Socialist and I'm also a Democrat. One is a description of my political ideology. The other is a description of the party И Роб Санд Винс the Iowa governor's race Next year, running as a moderate Who hates political parties The Democratic and Republican parties Don't solve enough problems To deserve their little shared monopoly We aren't Doing our country A service by forcing people To choose between two candidates When they're not excited about either Talking about that Is the first piece of getting down the road To fixing it Did the Democratic Party just move left or right?
5:10Neither. It got bigger. It found a way to represent more kinds of people in more kinds of places. That is a spirit it needs to embrace. Not moderation. Not progressivism. But in the classic political sense of the term. Representation.
5:36Продолжение следует...
5:57That fact of difference he is pointing out, the reality of difference, is not always accepted. There are other forms of social order, like tyranny or oligarchy, that actively suppress it. But to practice politics, as Crick defines it, is to accept the reality of difference. That is to say, it is to accept the reality of other people. Of how different other people are from you. of how they are no less complex and contradictory than you are. In my favorite line of his book, Crick writes, Politics involves genuine relationships with people who are genuinely other people, not tasks set for our redemption or objects for our philanthropy.
6:42Genuine relationships with people who are genuinely other people. I love that line. Я думаю, что это путь к более политике, я думаю, что это путь к политике, влезут в это. Потому что в последний фантазий в политике есть персуази без представления. Вы elect нас к representанию, и где мы не согласны, мы расскажем вам почему вы не верну. В результате этого политика не может быть ни персуази, ни репрессия. Люди знают, когда вы не слушаете. И они знают, как они отвечают. Они не слушают. They vote for people who they feel do listen to them. I'm not a pessimist on the possibility of persuasion, but I believe it is rare outside of context of mutual respect.
7:30And if I were to say where the Democratic Party went most wrong over the last decade, it's there. In too many places, Democrats sought persuasion without representation. And so they got neither. А демократик стратегист, который проводил countless focus groups, told me that when he asked people to describe the two parties, they often described Republicans as crazy and Democrats as preachy. One woman said to him, I'll take crazy over preachy. At least crazy doesn't look down on me. That echoes the conversations that I've been having. I've spent much of the last year talking to the kinds of voters Democrats lament losing.
8:11I feel I end up having the same conversation over and over again. They sometimes tell me about issues where the Democratic Party departed from them. But first they describe a more fundamental feeling of alienation. The Democratic Party, they came to believe, doesn't like them. Many of these people voted for Democrats until a few years ago. They didn't feel their fundamental beliefs had changed. But they began to feel like deplorables. They began to feel unwanted. When I'd push on the experiences they had, Когда я спросил, что демократы они были говорить о? Что именно произошло? Я often found they were reacting to a cultural vibe.
8:50As much or more than a flesh-and-blood party. Они felt something change. И я знал, что они были правы. Потому что что -то изменилось. Это изменилось на лево. Это изменилось на лево. Но это не было не только один человек, или не только один момент, или не только один policy. Продолжение следует...
9:46Продолжение следует...
10:03В этом т�улирме мы увидим виноградrespции. В этом видео мы расскажем, что confidential. И еще и политически -инклайн -код, как я, будет слушать под видео, или The Daily, или ПОДСАВЕРКА, или Бен Шапиро. В этом видео мы поговорим о Дональд Трумпе с последствия о том, что он делает в Конституционный и в Конституционный президент для жизни. Дональд Трумпу. Дональд Трумпу. Президент Трумпу. Трумпу. Трумпу. Трумпу. Эволюционный. Трумпу.
10:38Трумпу. The same is true for someone in Montana or Kentucky or Texas or Illinois. For decades, we have been losing local media and migrating to national media. And that has meant politics everywhere is losing its local character and reflecting national divisions. Then there is the astonishing amount of money politicians need and the places they go to find it. In the 1970s, the Supreme Court decided money was speech. Пр ламп Christina buldствоäre не бラд Innovation побольшеよろしく выбор с выбор с
11:37Это было все верно, когда я moved в Washington cover politics в 2005. Уже политики были более поларизированы, более nationalизированы, более expensive. Но два года назад, iPhone был released. В 2013, более половины американцев были в Америке. В 2016, Twitter был algorithmic. Мы все знаем, что это изменилось в политике. Но для всех слов, что было сплит на это, I think we still miss how fundamentally it has altered the day-to-day work of politics. The work of political representation has always been bedeviled by an information problem. How do you know what the people you're representing think? How do you tell the people you're representing what you've done?
12:22Everyone working in politics had too little information. Now they have too much information, but it is the wrong information. I cannot overstate how much this next dynamic has changed everyone in politics at every level. Prior to social media, everyone in politics was not talking to everyone else in politics all of the time. It just wasn't possible. People who worked in politics in different places had their own local political communities. If you did campaigns in Kentucky, it was not easy to be in contact with political operatives in California. Субтитры создавал DimaTorzok
13:28Мы всегда знаем о том, что нашу больше опыта на это. Они приходят к себе на культуру, и есть ничего не в том, что мы не в этом. Как как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то, как -то.
13:44There's been a lot of talk on the Democratic side about the power of the so-called groups. These interest groups, right? Nonprofit interest groups who have these maximalist strategies. There are a lot of advocacy groups, a lot of parts of the Democratic Party that really thought things were fine. They're more extreme than many of their constituents, right? That's not how normal people think. It's not common sense. And we need to start being the party of common sense again. I've used that term before. I've talked about the groups. But I think it is imprecise. The real thing we're talking about here is what might be called the professional political classes.
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14:50It's a professional community that exists largely online. And so that professional community's culture and its attention is governed not by its own values or goals, but by the decisions of the corporations and oligarchs who own the social media platforms, who design them to further their own profits or their own politics. The conversations pulsing across these platforms are shaped not by civic values, но и хак, что люди скролли. Нюансed opinions get compressed into viral slogans. Attention collects around the loudest and most controversial voices. And the algorithms, they love conflict and inspiration and outrage and anger.
15:35Everything is always turned up to 11. This is, of course, true on the right, where many of the president's most consequential statements are delivered on the social media platform he personally owns. Это тоже неудобно literal, но это тоже верно. В 2012-2024, Democrats moved sharply left на почти every issue. Они often did so believing they were finally representing communities that had long suffered from too little representation. This was what they were told by the online voices and by the professional groups that claimed to represent those communities. But it went wrong. Democrats became more uncompromising on immigration and lost support among Hispanic voters.
16:19They moved left on guns and student loans and climate and lost ground with young voters. They moved left on race and lost ground with Black voters. They moved left on education and lost ground with Asian American voters. They moved left on economics and lost ground with working class voters. The only major group where Democrats saw improvement across that whole 12-year period was college-educated white voters.
17:12Основной, you need to win elections. И « Winning elections» means « winning over» «Voters who have no voice in the professional political world, who don't think the way the people in it think». « Passing policy» means building coalitions that include views and members who are held in very low esteem in the more ideologically pure world of online politics. I'm Joe Manchin. I approve this ad because I'll always defend West Virginia. In 2010, Joe Manchin ran for Senate in West Virginia с этим сейчас -фамым ад. Я убил федерал spending и я убил the bad parts of Obamacare. Я суд EPA и я убил dead aim at the cap-and-trade bill.
17:56Да, that was Manchin shooting the cap-and-trade bill that Democrats have been trying to pass with a rifle. But Manchin, 12 years later, was the key vote to pass the Inflation Reduction Act, the single largest green energy Субтитры regres役 several problème в Scorpion !ав palms
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19:11Но сегодняшний Пантин, который неıl вновь ,าย засOnline culturewise ,ul варов Водской амб window ideology. Услуж meisten вала в с existem на себе. И 더 bullying matом. Р כל myös. Много Kyltовиistic muchу, нес Sexя, В свои победы .au Богом среди. Böyle как откlı. Ката «К cast out». Но пар из молодки завис it again. Выд Southie tengavin скромисс troisième, же одни пухарь как оказал eBay McDonaldской. not as a necessary part of building power. In 2010, when the Affordable Care Act was passing, the crucial vote in the Senate came from Ben Nelson, a pro-life Democrat from Nebraska. There were then 40 pro-life Democrats serving in the House.
19:57Crafting compromises across these disagreements was hard. But Democrats were able to pass Obamacare, which expanded reproductive health coverage and remains the greatest Democratic policy accomplishment of the 21st century. That same Democratic Party, with all of its internal disagreements, it had the votes to confirm Supreme Court justices who would, and did, in their time, protect Roe. That Democratic Party was less lockstep in its values, but was more able to turn those values into policy. I've been in a debate recently about whether Democrats should run pro-life candidates in red states in much the way that Republicans run pro-choice candidates, like Susan Collins and Larry Hogan in blue states.
20:42And I think I was taken aback to hear people say in response to this argument that I just wanted to throw reproductive rights overboard. So I want to say this clearly. No, I don't. I thought past episodes I've done on abortion, episodes I've done in the context of what my own family has been through, should have shown that. But what I want is Is the Democratic Party big enough and strong enough to protect reproductive rights? And I feel our politics on this have failed. Because they have failed. We cannot protect or restore reproductive freedom if the coalition that cares about that cannot compete in more places.
21:27But this point is not about any one issue. It's about a broader approach to politics.
21:37ДИНАМИЧНАЯ МУЗЫКА
22:04despite being pro-life, voted to put Ketanji Brown-Jackson on the Supreme Court. But one worry I have about Democrats right now is that they do not want to confront how much of the country truly, deeply disagrees with them. Polls show that the percentage of voters saying the Democratic Party is too liberal increased sharply between 2012 and 2024. The percentage of voters saying the Republican Party is too conservative fell during that same period. Even now, after the aggression and the outrages and the violations of Trump's second administration, that gap has not fully closed. A September poll from the Washington Post and Ipsos found that 54 % of voters thought the Democratic Party was too liberal, and 49 % thought the Republican Party was too conservative.
22:57I would like to believe that all Democrats need to do to win back these voters is embrace an agenda I'm already comfortable with. Economic populism or abundance or both. But I don't think it's true. A study by the Center for Working Class Politics found that in key Rust Belt states, when you attached the Democratic label to a candidate running on an economic populist platform, that candidate lost 11 to 16 points in support. That's how Sherrod Brown, once one of the strongest economic populists in the party, lost his Ohio Senate seat to a Republican car dealer who had to settle more than a dozen lawsuits for wage theft.
23:38The problem with seeing either populism or abundance as the sole answer for Democrats is that both of them are working across the idea of agreement, that the voters just want Democrats to be more of something they already are. In many places, it's true. And so that is enough in those places. Но в других местах, это просто не так. Возвращаясь в стране, не согласны с демократикой, как они понимают. И более основной, они не согласны с демократикой, не согласны с демократикой, или respect, их. В Нью -Йорк -Таймс -эдитториал -борд recently смотрел на чрезвычайные members of Congress representing districts that the opposite party carried in the presidential election.
24:22So, Democrats in districts that went for Trump. The sea off the coast of Maine is constantly turning, like our lives the past few years. They all emphasize their disagreement with and their independence from the Democratic Party in various ways. But I do know Maine does better when we have independent leaders, no matter the weather. And that's why I do this job for you, not for any political party. Jared Golden is a Democrat from Maine. In 2024, he edged out a victory in a district Donald Trump won by nearly 10 points. Голдин won running ads like this one. I was the only Democrat to vote against trillions of dollars of President Biden's spending because I knew it would make inflation worse.
25:05Worked with the Trump administration to build a treatment center in Maine for my fellow veterans. Now I'm fighting against Biden's electric car mandate while voting to increase domestic oil and gas production. Working with Republicans to secure the border and standing with law enforcement against defunding the police. Ялет Markt, и я! !
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25:53That's why I'm running for Congress. Instead of learning from Democrats like Golden, Democrats who are successfully representing voters, who are otherwise moving towards Donald Trump, some progressives want to purge him. Again, I want to be clear that I'm making something different than an argument for pure moderation. I don't think the Democratic Party should just move right. It is good, in my view, that AOC and Zoran Mamdani run as Democrats, and that Bernie Sanders has become a leader in the Democratic Party. It is good that you can be an out-and-out Democratic Socialist in today's Democratic Party.
26:31When I got into politics, none of that was true. Back then, I used to fight with the Democratic establishment for how much it feared its own left. Today, you can run as a Democratic Socialist. Then you can barely call yourself a liberal. But what has happened over the past 15 years is the Democratic Party has made room on its left и закрытся на ее праве. Для всех о том, что о том, что о Сантере или Мамдани, в том, что о том, что о том, что о том, что о том, что о том, что о том, что о том, что Joe Manchin или Jared Голдин или Мария Глусенкомп -Перез. Это almost disempowering для людей to say our entire world is based on one vote.
27:13No, like, democracy persists in all of these small and all of these microscopic things. It is how well you know your neighbors. your house. It's who is teaching shop class. Those are all the things that build a strong nation. Or Sarah McBride. You can't foster social change if you don't have a conversation. You can't change people if you exclude them. And I will just say, you can't have absolutism on the left or the right without authoritarianism. The fact that we have real disagreements, the fact that we have difficult conversations, The fact that we have painful conversations is not a bug of democracy.
27:57It's a feature of democracy. And yes, that is hard and difficult. But again, how can we expect that the process of overcoming marginalization is going to be fair? The Democratic Party should be seeking more, not less, internal disagreement. It should treat that disagreement as more welcome. Но changing a culture is harder than changing a policy. Moderating on this or that issue is more straightforward than finding ways to radiate respect and interest in people who disagree with you, in people you've come to feel far away from. It is the building of genuine relationships in politics, not the taking of positions, that is truly hard.
28:46but it is also the part that is beautiful it is a privilege to do that work not a concession we are quicker to find complexity and extend generosity when we are able to see others as part of our community working to widen that circle of empathy to widen our circle of belonging is both morally and politically good whatever the problems are on the left there is something truly frightening brewing on the right Tucker Carlson had a sit-down interview with Nick Fuentes, who's obviously a very controversial figure. And what you're saying about putting aside the tribal interest for the corporate interest, that's absolutely the case.
29:28And that's the only way the country's going to stay together. Exactly. That's my concern. And I absolutely agree with you. I would say, though, that the main challenge to that, a big challenge to that, is organized Jewry in America. Валерий Курас, президент Дональд Трумс, номиней -то -литейд, офисов специал -соу -соу, не ваше -смал -жоб, садят на текст -фред, leaked -то Плитико, что он had, что -то, «Нази -стрик». А separate -текст -фред of young Republican leaders leaked -то Плитико had messages about sending enemies to the gas chambers and one saying, «I love Hitler». Валерий Курас, что -то, что -то, что -то, Он сказал, There is no rule of civic generosity or political practice that Trumpism has not broken.
30:46And for many I know on the left, it's created a sense that there is no sense in trying to appeal to the median voter. No sense in moderation. No sense in any of the old rules of politics. Look at how extreme the right has become. Yet they have thrived. In this telling, Trump understands what the Democrats don't. Nothing matters anymore except attention. Но некоторые вещи будут wrong with that. Trump did moderate the Republican Party in crucial areas. Medicare, Social Security, trade. And the simple truth is, Democrats can't win the way Trump and the Republicans do. This goes back to the problem of place.
31:27Trump and the Republicans lead a coalition built on overwhelming strength in rural counties. America's place-based politics gives rural places disproportionate political power. Trump and the Republicans can hold power. с маленькой коллитой чем Democrats. И тогда здесь. Democrats не должны чтобы победить как Republicans это. Это could break. Это обез dark и deep и America like other countries has fallen into it before and can again. I see the simple fact of a free and fair politics as much more of an achievement something much more precious и трудоуточный и трудоуторожный, сегодня, чем я делал 20 лет назад.
32:13Я не могу больше принимать или обучение или политики или преследовать это для granted. Мы не можем верить что провидение или some innate American exceptionalism protects нас from calamity. It doesn't. Over the past year, I have found myself obsessively reading histories of liberalism, looking for something, even though I didn't know exactly what. illiberalism is winning right now but there's nothing unusual about that by modern standards virtually every past society was illiberal that we now call them illiberal that exclusion and domination and state suppression have been made strange enough to demand a label that is the unlikely achievement but how did liberalism do it because liberalism today feels exhausted to me it does not feel up to this challenge did it fail us Or did we fail it?
33:10For most of my life, when I called myself a liberal, I meant basically someone who believed in universal health care and the right to form a union and racial equality and social security. But in her book, The Lost History of Liberalism, Helena Rosenblatt shows that in its oldest forms, liberalism was built on a virtue that we rarely talk about today. To the ancient Romans, Rosenblatt writes, Being free required more than a Republican constitution. It also required citizens who practice liberalitas, which referred to a noble and generous way of thinking and acting towards one's fellow citizens.
33:48The word liberalitas became liberality, and it was discussed and debated for 2 ,000 years before liberalism became a part of anyone's political vocabulary. Liberality came to mean something like demonstrating the virtues of a citizen, Showing devotion to the common good And respecting the importance of mutual connectedness It flowered into religious tolerance When that idea was truly radical When mainstream thought Held that the violent persecution of heretics Was an act of charity Because it would keep others in the church Liberality proposed It demanded A different way of relating across disagreement and division It built towards liberalism's great insight What Edmund Fawcett в его книге «Либераллитм, the Life of an Idea» он называется «Либераллитм's первая идея».
34:37«Conflict of interests and beliefs was, to the liberal mind, inescapable. If tamed and turned to competition in a stable political order, conflict could nevertheless bear fruit as argument, experiment, and exchange». Today, I think political tolerance is harder for many of us than religious tolerance. Finding ways to turn our disagreements into Продолжение следует...
35:31или демократия, или климат -чейдж, или даже Donald Trump. Это политика division. И на самом деле, 64 % of the country said they think we're too divided to solve our problems anymore. They're not wrong. Right now, the project of America feels, to many, impossible. And not just on the left. I hear it every time J.D. Vance or Stephen Miller speaks. I hear it when Trump says, I hate my opponent, and I don't want the best for them. Когда я слышу подобное. Но я слышу. sach any 예배, maybe an opportunity. В конце концов, все Americans想 America is a part Они делаютAcony They disagree They don't want to hate each other These divisions exist not just in the country but in our communities and our families They're painful Everybody wanted People want politicians They want be Половые People want Capables of making That problem Better, not worse Better, not worse Я продолжаю.
36:58for all our sins and injustices and tragedies and oppression. A freer state emerged through the practice of politics. It did not do so painlessly. It did not do so bloodlessly. But it did happen. And for a time, it gave us confidence in ourselves and in our system. It showed what could emerge from genuine relationships between people who are genuinely other people. И я думаю, что это еще может снова.
From the publisher
Democrats don’t just need to win more people; they also need to win more places. And that requires a different kind of thinking.
Mentioned:
"How Liberalism Wins" by Ezra Klein
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You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Claire Gordon, Marie Cascione and Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Emma Kehlbeck, Jack McCordick, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Isaac Jones.
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