S14E90 - They All Want to Join Tottenham

0:00Before the season even kicks off, soccer fans are already making predictions. Who wins the league? Who qualifies for Europe? And who's lifting the trophy at season's end? On Calci, America's number one prediction market platform, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the Calci app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10. K-A-L-S-H-I, Calci. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors.

0:32Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calsheet.com slash regulatory. Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Whether it's hot yoga, over 100 degree weather, or too much sun. GatorLite, with a specialized blend of five electrolytes, was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration. Shop now at retailers nationwide. GatorLite hydrates faster than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist. This episode is brought to you by Facebook.

1:11So you were scrolling on Marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for. From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook.

1:58He's locked up, we won't let him out What's that song? Acon What are the words? I'm locked up, won't let me out That's Morgan Gibbs, isn't it? Yeah Bless him He's apparently not turned up for training today If you believe what everything is coming out I ain't coming One of his teammates, what's his name? Oh, I know Yeah Could you decide, do you understand what that meant? Because I looked at it and I was like, I don't understand. It's just, he's taken a picture of a pair of shoes, which I presume are Morgan Gibbs white. And he's just said two piece merchant. What does it, do you know, anyone know what that means?

2:40No, he's not there anyway. But is he not there on purpose or is he trying to force a move here? I mean, you'd feel from his perspective that he's agreed that he's, you know, in written contract release clause has been met and he hasn't been allowed to lead the football club. So is he within his rights to just not turn up? I thought it was quite nice. He turned up in white and blue to train in yesterday. I noticed that. A nice subtle, subtle little dig there. It's just like, yeah, I'm not going to wear the team tracksuit and I'll turn up in white and blue. Everything's short of a Spurs tracksuit.

3:21To some degree, I'm surprised how badly he wants to come to Spurs.

3:28they just had like their best ever Premier League season we just finished 17th he's like wanna go Tottenham playing the most exciting football that that fan base has ever seen he's like oh no Spurs sounds great yeah 17th brilliant it is remarkable how we managed to keep attracting players and yet letting them all down consistently like look at our look at our Premier League era of any I mean you'd imagine that Gibbs White could sign for almost anybody in the top he could definitely play for Liverpool or Man City probably Chelsea, anywhere he would get first team minutes, for sure. But he's gone, nah.

4:04And the same with James Madison. He goes, I just wanted to come to Spurs. I just felt like it was the right fit for me. And I'm all for it. I just don't understand it. It's like that mate who just pulls weldies and you're like, how is he doing this? And it's just like, we don't know. No one knows ever. We had a geezer I went to university with, Adam he's named. anymore every friday night he would come back with what he i mean we all considered world-class talent wow can you say that anymore i don't know i don't know what's on it anymore but it probably is a little bit anyway just for the you know to get color to the story uh just some lovely lovely he had a knack but he came across like he like one of the campiest people i've ever met if you met him you'd think 100 % homosexual right you would but and you know sort of average looking he's not listening to this and then about 3 in the morning you'd hear him play counting crows on the

5:103am on a Saturday morning was that his sex song was it afterwards he would serenade him with that because I was next door and you'd hear the sex and then you'd, and then, and then, and then the guitar would come out. And I remember I came up with my missus at the time and she brought one of her mates up from London, from Tottenham, no less, actually. And we heard all that, all the sex happened. Nice. He pulled the guitar out and all we heard was, you don't have to do that. From London, it was different, isn't it? Yeah. You don't have to do that. She's not a university student. She was pretty ghetto herself.

5:49no I don't need you to serename your guitar we're essentially Adam from university just keep just keep keep lining them up and knocking them down yeah suddenly these like top footballers like Kudis and Gould Gives White sat there in the medical room and then involves Daniel Levy with a guitar over his shoulder going are you ready boys but Kudis is another one is I only want to come to Tottenham why you could go anywhere Mohamed go anywhere we're stuck we're stuck here you don't have to you don't have to stay you're looking at Sonny he's like you could have left at any time you stayed that means you're probably one of us Kudus you know before five years ago probably never even thought of playing for Tottenham now he's just like yep only club for me Tottenham Hotspur and it does it does make you think that despite what's going on outside the football club and the way we think about it internally that from a footballist perspective and an agent's perspective there is a lot There's a lot of very attractive things about Tottenham Hotspur.

6:50What do you... I haven't spoken to either of you yet about the Kudu signing. What did you make of it? Are you excited? Yeah, yeah. I'm massively excited. I think he's super exciting. I've always liked him at West Ham. I had a heads up from one of my herdy mates when he came to the Premier League because he came through a Danish club called FC Norshada and an organisation that one of my friends... He went to Ajax first though. Sorry? You're talking about Kudus, yeah? Yeah, Kudus. So he came from Ajax but he went from a Danish club, okay. Yeah, he was in Denmark. He came from a Right to Dream organisation, an academy that works with African players.

7:32So he's... Yeah, he's unreal. I mean, I think he's exactly the kind of player that I think we need right now. He's a man, you know, one-week-one specialist, good dribbler, a really strong physical profile. I think he's got a little bit of that edge as well that we do need. Like we've got a really lovely squad, don't we? But we need a bit of a cunt. And like we've got Romero. You know, Madison has edge and has that to him. But we need someone who goes out there and, you know, stands up and has that aura that he wants to take people on. And, you know, he has that fight in him. not that our players don't want to fight, but like, you know, just, just, we need a bit of a street, that street baller, which is what we get with him.

8:22Like I, you know, and, and someone who just wants to attack, wants to play football, wants the ball at his feet. Like I'm, I'm really, I'm really looking forward to it. It gives us a few other options on the left. And, you know, I know everyone's, you know, saying, oh, you know, where does he play? We've got Tell and Odderbear and Mikey Moore, and he's going to be in front of these guys. and the first answer to that question is we need depth. We've needed depth for two or three years now. We still haven't really gotten to that point. We keep buying young players. This is a guy who can come in and start or can rotate for a starting position.

8:57But he's not just a winger. He can also play through the middle. But I think he brings a lot of everything that we need, both in terms of football and in terms of just his character and his kind of personality. And if he has a few scraps on the pitch, that's fine. it can't be Romero every time. No, it's great that last season he like punched up half of our team, sparked out three or four of our players and signs for us. I was kind of thinking Mark, he was going to play on the right. I was kind of expecting him to be playing on the right, really. That's his main position, isn't it? I think... Registered, you said lefty.

9:32It is right, shouldn't it? Yeah. I mean, yeah, well, so he's played both sides. He can play all three. I don't know why. I just I see him play more on the left if I'm honest with you but again I don't know we've got we've got better options on the right you know I think Kulisevsky and Johnson are nailed on out there so but yeah I mean could be right yeah I don't I don't see it of Kulisevsky in the middle I've just never quite quite seen it no I'm not sure either and I think if we you know going from going for Gibbs White as well I think that's even more signs that we're going to see Kulisevsky on the right And like in Frank's system, he's not going to be asked to be as much of a sort of, you know, a line hugging winger and out and out winger as he was under Ange.

10:19So I think he's more suited for Frank's system where he can, you know, and he will be able to overlap then with whoever plays at the 10 who can then go out there. I mean, Madison can go out there if we play, if we play Kudas through the middle, if we play Gibbs White through the middle, they can all overlap with Kulisevsky, which suits Kulisevsky a lot more. so Tom Parkley has just reported that Gibbs White is at Forest and is training today I knew that was coming I knew that was coming so stupid I don't understand though so we're in a situation right now right where the Premier League has said according to the Times the Premier League has not given a timeline for when the Morgan Gibbs White case will be concluded but Thomas Frank will hope that he can have the playmaker in his squad for the club's pre-season tour.

11:07Gibbs White is understood to be ready to embark on a fresh challenge at Tottenham and that was 12 hours ago. What do you make of the whole situation? I think it's scandalous. I really do. This idea that we've somehow tapped him up in a way that hasn't happened consistently. Agents are talking to other agents. Things will get through. There's absolutely no way that you can keep something like this under wraps. However, it may be, though, that within the contract, there is a sort of NDA where that release course cannot be discussed and you can only be released should someone bid over that amount and then we'll have to allow you to talk to them.

11:53I mean, what is the market value of Morgan Gibbs-White? Around 60, 60 million, 65 million maybe, maybe a bit more, right? So a club is going to come in at around 60 million. the fact that he came on the nose isn't, it's not like this. It ain't like it's 600, 6 million, 258 ,000 and 50 pence, whatever it might be. It's 60 million pounds. Those are the sort of big, the whole, whole number of bids that come in. So I just, I don't understand it. If we would have gone in for 55 million, they rejected it and gone to 60. Would they still be talking about this as, as, as a, as a tapping up case? So they just have no case that, I mean, I rate Marianakis because, He's a fucking maniac.

12:36And he's just mental, right? But this isn't how you do business. I'm 99.9 % sure that he'll sign for Spurs soon. What do you make of it all, Kyle? Yeah, it's really, like, I agree with you. I do rate the Forest owner because he sticks up for his club, right? And they're not one of the big six clubs, so you have to kind of respect him for that, for always sticking up for them. And he has a, you know, he has a history himself of, you know, kind of shady behavior, we'll say. And so I suppose people like that, sometimes if you've been involved in those circles, you suspect everybody else of being like that as well.

13:18But it's like all you ever hear from like the Fabrizio Romanos is personal terms are already done. So it's like we already know that the agents are talking to other agents and agents are talking to players and clubs, in essence, are talking to players. the green things before they get a bid accepted it's not done in order anymore all this stuff is all done in the background like and so i just kind of look at things make grow up like take the money replace him and everyone will move on but now what he's doing is he's just longing it out for what a bit of fucking maybe a little bit of positive pr but i think even forest fans will be like mate just take the money and move on he wants to go once the player wants to go that's it many of them are yeah we we had we had an episode of the lab in the bank because he was joined and managed to speak to gizel greg who i think is some some forest channel he works on and um so obviously haven't released it because it's just kind of redundant so i'm gonna have to have another conversation with him about what happened but he he's like a big fan of marianakis and what he does and he's seen under their ownership them come from the bottom of the championship to you know with a Rizzo paper from being in the Champions League next year.

14:32It was from his sort of, I don't know what you'd call it, what do you call it, like legislate? No, what do you call it, like a legal action? It was his legal action, whatever it is, that really piled the pressure on UEFA with Crystal Palace. I've now seen Nottingham Forest in the Europa League, a team that they, again, a cup competition that they could probably win or have a chance at winning at least. It's definitely getting to the quarterfinals to that level. And if you're in there, then it's like, as we know, a two-game shoot-off, three-game shoot-off. And then there is the kind of opportunity to finish in the Champions League as we did.

15:10So I strongly believe that Nottingham Forest shouldn't be in that competition. You shouldn't be able to qualify for a competition through administration. You just shouldn't. In the same way that boxers shouldn't be notified that they're just a champion because someone had to give up the belt because of injury or something other. You have to fight for those belts, right? You have to earn your right. So for Forrest to be in that competition, but he's doing the right thing for their football club. It's just all a bit weird. I bet you... Yeah, he's... I don't know. I mean, I'll be honest. I think he's quite an oldies character, if I'm honest.

15:49The way he treated Nuno and ran onto the pitch and berated him, I thought it was just scandalous. It was a complete, I mean, it was hilarious as a non-Forest fan, but not even Forest, sorry, Flav, fan. But yeah, he's, I think he's a bit of a tool. But I mean, look, he, and the weird, not the weirdest, one of the weirder things as well is that he, this guy's not even meant to be in control of anything. Like he's put all of his shares into a blind trust. He's not supposed to be involved in the club. He's still the owner of it, but he hasn't, he's not supposed to have any controlling stake in it.

16:24Yet clearly he's behind all of this and is just, like you said, something to make him not, you know, kind of lose face. But to who even? I mean, you know, the fans, like you say, don't really give a shit. They just want this over with so it's not longed out and they're embarrassed by it. So, you know, is it because he doesn't want to lose face in front of his fellow owners? or I mean, he's just a proud guy and he's just letting his pride get in the way of his business sense. And I guess it's kind of the opposite to Levy in that sense, isn't he? Yeah, just on that, do you think that he felt kind of foolish the fact that Morgan White insisted on having, Gibbs White insisted on having that release clause in his contract?

17:12Because according to Greg, who is well-connected in the Forest community, that there was one of the provisos that he would sign from Wolves was that he needed that release clause in there. And a lot of the question marks are about, okay, we'll have a release clause, but not at 60 million, especially when they've paid all in. Now bonuses have been paid on that deal to Wolves around 47 million pounds. It means there's a profit of, where is that, 13? 13, yeah. But some of that will be, there's percentage clause for Wolves as well. To Wolves, yeah. So it's even less than that. so I think he's just trying to save face to some degree I mean I don't know but there's no conceivable way that we are found guilty of tapping up given what because then every single deal would have to be investigated like literally Ferguson put Berbatov in the back of his boot yeah was it yeah Liverpool did it with Keane didn't they I mean it's it happens all the time and like I the thing I guess that the the elephant in the room is we don't know what's in this contract it could be incredibly detailed on how we are supposed to approach the player or a buying club is supposed to approach the player and like there could be a ton of clauses in there that you know we might have have broken but to be honest it's less about whether we can whether we broke them and more about whether Maranac is in forest can prove that we broke them because if it if and and i trust our backroom staff enough to have not done anything stupid in terms of their approaches so something that wouldn't be able to come out in court um uh because ultimately that's where this might be headed but they'll you know there'll be a hearing before and the lawyers will talk and see if there's even this is even worth taking to court but um and i i suspect the pfa will be involved as well from a player point of view because the player wants to move so if the you know and there'll be clauses certainly there'll be clauses in the contract around that saying if Gibbs White wants to sign for this club and they activate the release clause, then he will be in a strong position to take that to CAS or whatever would be the call for that.

19:35So yeah, I think it's in Nighting Forest's interest to let this go through eventually. but we just it's just the details isn't it that's that's do you like do you like the transfer yeah I love it I think I think it's spot on I think it's another one of those that people are scratching their heads about like where's he going to play but we have to get away from this this way of thinking of us as just having a first 11 and then just you know some people on the bench we have to we can't go into a season with just a first 11 and that's who we're going to play for 60 games we have to have rotation constantly.

20:12You have three or four players with the goalkeeper involved that probably plays the majority of matches. You know, your Romero's, your Vendorvins, your Vicarios, Solanke. Everyone else needs to rotate and they really, really do because otherwise we'll run into issues like we have with Injuice again. But also like we need everyone fit for every competition if we want to push forward in every competition, which we do. Yeah, like I love Morgan Gibbs-White as a player. I think, again, character-wise, it's huge amounts there. And he'll slot into that midfield, which needs some steel. It needs someone that can come in and take some of that work off the shoulders of everyone else.

20:51The system will help everyone in our midfield. We won't be as exposed as we have been for the past two years, but I think he'll slot right in. I love the guy. Before the season even kicks off, soccer fans are already making predictions. Who wins the league? Who qualifies for Europe? And who's lifting the trophy at season's end? On Calci, America's number one prediction market platform, you're trading against peers in a live market, meaning there's no house. And as the probability changes, you can buy in and out of your position. For a limited time, download the Calci app and use code CUP26 to get$10 when you trade 10.

21:23K-A-L-S-H-I. Calci. Trade the beautiful game. 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply. Event contract trading involves risk and may not be suitable for all investors. Prices, values, and available markets may differ from those mentioned. For more information, see calci.com slash regulatory. Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration no matter where you're going.

21:57Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist. This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on Marketplace, and there it was, the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message, and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny, and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook, you might find more than what you're looking for.

22:33From a browse to a bike ride, this summer, find more on Facebook. Oh, I love him. He's great. I remember seeing him play against us when he was at Wolves in our first season. I think we might have won 1-0 up at Molyneux. And I remember seeing him thinking, fuck, that kid's good. He's just so fucking brave and he just wants the ball all the time, carries it, really good passer. He's just a great player. And when I saw that, that we potentially get him, I was like, yes, yes, that's the guy. And I think this summer, all I really wanted was our midfield to be better because a lot of our midfielders are just kind of the same.

23:09They're all kind of samey, all kind of ball carriers, all kind of runners. There's no one there that's, other than James Madison, that's great at using the ball or, you know, in an attacking sense, really good in an attacking sense from midfield. And so he's a player that is going to add a lot to our midfield. And I think hopefully we get, you know, little whispers about Adam Watt and I don't see it, but a player like that in that ilk, would really take us to the next level. And Mark's right. With Champions League football this season, it's a whole other level from Europa League. In those early stages of the Europa League, you can kind of rotate.

23:43You can play Mikey more. You can play kind of young players and rotate a lot and use players that perhaps aren't up to the level of the guys in the first 11. But with Champions League football, as well as the Premier League, you've got to have a good squad. You've got to have strength. You've got to be able to... And if you want to compete in that competition, I don't want to go into Champions League and finish 19th of that 2014 group or whatever the fuck it is. I don't want that. I want to compete. We've been in the Champions League plenty of times. I'm not saying we're going to win it or even get to a semi-final, but I want us to at least get through that group stage because we're a team with a recent Champions League pedigree and we've just won the Europa League.

24:19So I don't want to go into that competition and make mugs of ourselves. I want to go in there and have a go at it at least. Yeah, I agree. Where do you think he will play though? It would be him and Maddison competing for the same spot. right? That's what I feel. Could you play him deeper as well? He could definitely play deeper. I feel like he'll be more of a central, but slightly more further back. He'll be the 8, right? Talking about numbers on a pitch is a most game, but I think he'll be more of a traditional 8 where Madison will sit in the 10 and be more expansive. But this is the beauty of them.

24:56If you play both at the same time, they can dovetail because they can both fit in there. Gibbs-White is slightly more, again, in my opinion, it's the eyes of the hole. But he's a bit more aggressive, a bit more physical, will get a bit more involved in the duels and the battles, but has a really, really high footballing IQ off the ball. So he's very good at positioning. Breaks higher for things like recoveries and interceptions than Madison does. Both like to drop deep. Madison likes to drop deep to receive and then build up. But Gibbs-White will drop deep to try and regain the ball. So he won't sit and be our sort of furthest back DM or CM.

25:39But I think he'll sit in there. I could easily see him, Benton Kaur and Madison in our midfield three with Gibbs-White and Benton Kaur as a double pivot. I could even see Gibbs-White and a Berryville in a double pivot with Madison in front of them. That would be quite exciting. Maybe not up against a super physical sort of team playing nine at the back. But yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of options in there. Don't forget with this system, with Frank's system, we don't need or we're not as reliable on having a super, super effective six sitting in there because your other midfielders will be around to support more.

26:23Your fullbacks will be around to support more. Everyone's not going to be in the final third. at all times. There'll always be a man there for support. But I want one, Mark. I know you want one. I want a bastard in midfield. Just fucking bang. Smash into people. Yeah. Yes, that guy. That'd be fun. Do you need work? Just a destroyer in midfield? I know these people. Mark's favourite thing to do is oh, we're talking about a player. Let's get that FB ref and let's show a graph of two players and compare each other. That's the deal and end all. It's literally just made up. It's all over the internet.

27:00It could be made up and people would look at it and go, yeah, some people could draw them themselves. And everyone would go, wow, look. Look at this graph. Expected presses. Loner. How many expected presses? Expected presses isn't a thing, is it? It's just made up. I've just made that up. But this is how ridiculous it is, Cal. It could definitely be a thing. Yes. I'm sitting here going, that's a really good, someone should do this. It's expected prices. And then what happens is people look at these graphs, right? And then you can form some narrative around it and you sound very intelligent and very clever and like you know everything about football, right?

27:41But my understanding of Pauline and why he's fouled at Bayern Munich is that he's brilliant at destroying play, but he isn't so good at the distribution element of it. Is that fair? Yes. Okay. So if we need a kind of deep line playmaker for Frank, would Paulina work as that sort of six? No. So what we would just... This is the thing. If you need a creative pass, if you need a, you know, let's take Rodri because he's the best player in the world and plays in that position. He excels in all of those things that you've just mentioned. So he ranks very highly for things like duels and recoveries and interceptions and possession one and all that sort of stuff.

28:20But he also ranks really highly for progressive passes, key passes, forward pass, completion percentages, things like that. And I think he even does quite a bit of carrying. He does all those things that you want. He sits across two or three positions at any one point. Pelinia is good at duels and physicality and winning the ball back, but he's not very good at everything else. So you need him in a midfield where you have a lot of people around him. I'll win him too. I'll win him now. You've got to have variety, right? Because Thomas Frank's all about variety of tactics. He can do different things.