S15E13 - Daniel Levy Resigns

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1:48Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Fighting Cock. Look, for the first time in 15 years since we started recording The Fighting Cock, I've never been, I've never known not what to do. And I've always felt like whenever we start the podcast, I've got an idea about how this show might go. And, you know, 45 minutes ago, I was in my garden. I had my first glass of wine and the news came through. Daniel Levy has left the football club and inverted commas. he's still a shareholder, but he's left his role as a chairman, which means his decision making and the impact that he has in the direction of the football club seemingly is diminished in a way that means that his role really is insignificant.

2:40John Bass is going to join us for a short while and Alex from Bristol is also going to join us, but we've got Cal. How are you feeling, Cal? It was weird. it was really weird to to to see the news because for the for the first time in 15 years daniel levy has been the epicenter of every 25 years 25 years there's i'm gonna be a right nerd here people will talk about fucking franklin roosevelt and he was the president for like 20 years and then he died and people could only remember a time when he was president that for people like ben bowman they could only remember a time when daniel levy was the chairman of tottenham hotspur and as long as this as this podcast has existed daniel levy has been the chairman of tottenham hotspur and for the we're now it's so it was a weird feeling i didn't feel elation i didn't feel gutted i didn't feel and it was just oh this feels strange he's not gonna be our chairman anymore yeah i got um i I immediately got a phone call from someone, some producer who works for Five Live, and they were asking me, but they did a build-up, and they asked this sort of journalist about what Daniel Levy had done, and some might argue the incredible work that he'd done for the football club, and I was waiting to speak, and I didn't even really want to do it, but I feel like you have to do it, and as soon as they asked me a question about how do you feel about Daniel Levy, I didn't have an answer.

4:14I didn't know what to say. Because there's been 25 years of failure, but there's also been 25 years of substantial growth. So we're in a situation where we haven't won trophies, but we have definitely put ourselves in a situation where we can and we should. And that is down to Daniel Evie. We've only got John for 10 minutes. So I'm going to go for you, John. How are you feeling? How did you feel when you heard the news? What did you make of it all? like very similar to what you boys are saying I've got this weird feeling of dread I guess it's the best way to describe it dread I just feel yeah like unsettled like something's not right like things are out of place and I guess the only way I can any way I can put it rationalize it is it's a bit like you got a stepdad right who on the surface he's you know you're living under his roof he's always taking care of the bills you know you haven't had homeless you've been on a decent holiday every year you never went to florida you never went to disney you know you didn't get playstation 5 the day it came out you got a second and one refurbished from game like a couple of months later still a patient and yeah so when you tell other people oh he's shit dad they'll go well you put a roof over your head you've you're fed you're what you're complaining about be careful what you wish for because your next stepdad could be a real horrible bastard and it could be really bad and so there is part of me that's like this conflicted thing of i can sit here and reel off loads of stuff that he's done that was really good right i could easily do that but the conversation doesn't end with that right it's a complex part of a complex person and so my feelings towards him are kind of complex i didn't think they would be i've been loathing him for the last couple of years especially so i thought this would be the day when i'd be cheering and celebrating and I've just got to be honest.

6:12My honest reaction was like, oh shit, this is like weird. Usually we do this analogy about the stepdad being good or the husband being good but he beats the wife and that sort of thing. Are we now the wife that wants the big dick? That's what it feels like a little bit. We've had 25 years of a stable, good man who's treated us well but hasn't really lavished us with expensive presents, you know, Mercedes and all that kind of things and trips to Vegas but now we're like all right well i've seen what you've got now i want derek with the dick down the road i feel like dangerously that's in the because it might hurt that dick might hurt um i thought i genuinely thought this was gonna be a sensible podcast and not you know just normal conversation not about being dicked down by derek um alex how you doing mate i'm good i'm good sorry my um mic has decided not to work so it's fine it's fine it's fine yeah yeah so how you feeling i'm fucking over the moon are you like i'll just walk in i was sat in the kitchen just about to get up a lovely piece of peppered smoked mackerel for my tea oh nice uh yeah lovely good work uh and and then it just it came up uh on on Twitter just as I was scrolling and I just went oh shit but like in quite a high like shit in quite a whole pitch voice and the message was like well god what's the matter like someone's died and I was like and I kind of must have just gone oh Levy's gone assuming that she'd even know what that even means ran upstairs I don't know why ran upstairs and was then just on the group like I didn't know what to do you are happy you're what what yeah I mean this is what we wanted for ages but I appreciate that there's good stuff and bad stuff as ever, but my initial feeling was like we've just scored a goal.

8:12I think it's an incredible love of death. So you don't like, I think I'm with John in that there's a moment's hesitation in this situation we find ourselves in where we don't know what comes next. And I think that's perfectly acceptable. And I'm not, I think I said in the group, like, you know, it's not rabid celebration. I'm happy. don't forget it's a I think it's a fantastic thing but um but it doesn't mean that you can't stop and reflect on you know on some of the stuff that has been delivered because there has been stuff that's been 100 % are going to do that but but Alex how do you how do you what what do you think happens next I think that well from what we've heard that there's been some kind of not happy families in the background with Joe Lewis's family and Daniel Levy my my feeling is probably that that is look we're going to give you the opportunity to walk this summer you won a trophy last year you know here's your chance to kind of walk away from that keep all your shares all the rest of it um so i think now that it will probably move into a direction where uh where someone who is running it is not quite as invested within the company of e-nick necessarily as as as levy is and is maybe a bit more you know football ambitious and And especially if there is investment on the way in, they need someone out of the way, Levy out of the way, so that there isn't this kind of parachute attached to their back while they're trying to sprint and slow them down slightly.

9:39Someone with a bit of fresh air and maybe not quite as much baggage around the club. John, I think Daniel Levy was football ambitious. I think he was football ambitious with Tottenham. I think that his idea of what that means is very different from the match they go in fan who has to spend massive amounts of money to go and watch Spurs play. I think that he did genuinely and I maintain that he has the right idea and he genuinely wanted the betterment of the football club to be paramount in every decision he made. It just differs in how we think a football club should be run and how he thinks. But he has run a football club for 25 years and we eat Pringles on a Thursday afternoon.

10:25yeah or really nice smoked mackerel or whatever yeah of course yeah um no yeah i i i think basically again we always have to put it into context of time in 25 years loads of things will shift and change including the dynamic of what is uh what is our football club and what is success and what are the metrics for for that when he came into the club the first 10 years that the club's growth and size and stature and position and lead in the league table was extremely ambitious right like it was like any and we saw that development where now now we're considered part of the big six like that's just standard we're regularly in the champions league like getting to champions league that first time was fucking mental now it's like if we're not in the champions league like we're failing and the manager needs to go and everyone needs to go that is success that was ambition that got us there in the same way as like he used to do deals remember we used to have the thing about levy nomics right where we used to fucking mug other clubs off and get the best deals for our players that was successful that was a certain level of ambition that was a certain level of stature but in that time he's got us to his ceiling i think he took us as far as he could take us and what i think is the real shame and i think the reason that most people have grown tired and frustrated and wanted change is that we've seen that for a long time he reached that ceiling six seven years ago maybe and I think people have been frustrated that this this sort of scenario hasn't reared its head and gone well there's an opportunity here to go thanks Daniel let's move on and change direction and it seems like that's maybe now what is happening and I think that there's been a ton of stuff that's happened in the background and some of the stuff we've also seen like it can't go unnoticed what happened in this window it cannot go unnoticed this is a on two occasions big pr disasters that are very much at his feet and there's rumors about do you think that's what got him done look i don't think it's one thing right i think we've been all probably i've said seven years i've pulled out my ass but like a period of time we've all been unhappy that like wave of uh disenchantment unhappiness the protest change for tottenham podcast talking about it the public talking about press talking about it this like wave of stuff it's taken longer to hit the people that matter that can actually make those decisions than it has the rest of us but i think that this was probably the last straw like they're probably just a bit frustrated by what's happened and ultimately he makes the decisions and i think they've just gone okay cool like this hasn't quite work the way we wanted to it's been brilliant and to our point i think they probably just laid out from said like look this can end in a really nice way you can keep all your shares you can go with your head held high with a trophy in the cabinet like you've done enough like thank you it's tight it's time to go this is churchill after the second world war it's peacetime now like you've been alleged thanks very much but time to move yeah i wonder if people would be tearing down his statue in about eight years time um about eight minutes time do you reckon Do you reckon it was that tweet from that bloke who said that he'd rather shoot Daniel Levy twice than hit him if he was in a room?

13:43But it's a point, though. Like, you know, I joked earlier, like, you know, it's all dank to the protests. But, you know, that's the fact is that those protests, whether they were small, big, infrequent, happening all the time, whatever, you know, they were getting into positions where he's asked about it by Gary Neville. you know yeah so you cannot deny that those things would have been there and we always said is that if people felt that strongly that they get off their ass and go and do something and people did it and they continue to do it so i i put a lot of uh it won't be the reason why he's gone because of change for tournament but as john said it's another it's another grain of sand that has ticked through the hourglass that's got to the point where where it's too much and just to your point flower in terms of the football ambition i i was a long-standing supporter of of of daniel levy and enic you know up until probably kind of mid pop years where i would regularly say on here that look what we are doing at the minute in terms of the commercial revenue stuff we are punching above our weight we are kind of spinning plates all the time to be at this at this level but there was a certain period of time where i think his ambition changed and it wasn't the football it got to a point where the infrastructure delivery and the package of Tottenham Hotspur was more important than the football and that might be it might turn out that in 10-15 years time we look back and actually that was the right decision because it allowed this Saudi investment to come in or whatever and now we're winning the league every year maybe but there was a point of time where it changed and I was one of the ardent ones for Levy until mid-Poch years and now I'm at a point where I it was such good news that breaks where I don't know what to do with myself um Cal what do you how much do you think the protests the change for Tottenham movement when it become mobilized it became sensible when it became significant where you know mainstream news reporting on these protests and as John said or I think it was Alex maybe that when uh interview him the protest came up how much how much impact do you think that had i think it must have definitely i don't think it was a deciding factor or even a but it's a factor it matters and the fact that you know on a on a it's such a rare thing for daniel leap to speak and to do an interview and then he does one with gary neville and that's one of the topics that comes up it's clearly a factor people are clearly talking about it um so i think it it it definitely was a factor Can I just get around the table, boys?

16:21Do you think that this is going to be a positive, I know Alex is going to say yes, but a positive moment for Tottenham Hotspur's future? Will we middle or will we go backwards, do you think? So forward, middle or backwards, John? Well, as you know, Fav, I'm an internal optimist, so I'm going to say forward. There's a huge opportunity. We are a huge club in the best city in the world with a decent squad of young, talented players. And we are a historically big club as well with Pedigree. We've just won our third European trophy in our history. So there is loads of stuff here for an investment group to go, fuck, let's just make this absolutely massive.

17:08Let's just make this an absolute monster, mega sports brand. basically what levy wanted to do but they've got the ambition to do it and understand that it needs to be done on the pitch i the more i'm talking literally the more i'm getting excited because i'm thinking if you just if you just pump the money in like i've always said like just spend fucking loads um you can get whatever you want in football every single example of people doing that chelsea psg etc they just get what they want by spending money if you can't beat them we tried to do it organically and it got us so far now we're at a point where we've been going to the gym we've been eating healthy now it's time for some fucking steroids let's get on the fucking juice it's like it's like two years of losing weight getting shredded and then suddenly you're attractive and then you get on the gear and you want to visit brasses on a saturday night yeah and they're gonna fancy you this time uh alex you know all about that what um it's true he is he's a no-neck no-neck cunt why is it forward Alex because I think it's in a position where it's almost it's impossible to go back now this isn't team finishing alright we finished 17th last year but what I mean is this isn't a mid-table to lower mid-table team that has been taken over as an opportunistic takeover by someone you know because Enoch are still there so the only reason for him to be going is because they want to do things that they feel that is either beyond his remit or it needs fresh blood to do and that naturally makes you think about doing more trying to do more stuff not doing less and if investment does come into the club where it means he didn't move away then these clubs this size and for the amount of money that it will take to buy Tottenham are bought at such an extortionate amount of money is that it's there to make more money not to stay as it is or to go backwards it's fair to make more money and the nature of the premier league now is that to make more money you have to be successful there's no other way of doing it because top of them are the only other club that make the profit that they make in the way that's happening now and what's happening now hasn't bought us success you know last year aside the name when these clubs get bought now they are bought for because the economics are such a powerhouse that the opportunity is there to make exorbitant amounts of money not just bits and pieces like an Ashley taking over Newcastle or a takeover of Stoke or takeover of Burnley that isn't what happens in the top six of the Premier League so it's almost impossible not to go forward will it be forward rocket ship forward maybe not but it's it's it's a it's a really positive step and it could be a positive step without necessarily having to hate him and think that he's been a cancer to the club because he hasn't been.

19:59Of course not. How does a cancer grow and make better? Look, we need to be really clear about this. You can look at Daniel Levy and think he's the reason why we haven't won trophies. You cannot deny what he has done and what he's brought to the football club. If you look back in the history of Tottenham Hotspur, Daniel Levy would be up with the most important figures in the football club in terms of progressing it. You can't deny it. I get people who are obsessed with success, and I am as well. And I've said on this podcast over and over again that Daniel Levy cannot get us to this next step and cannot make us compete on a legitimate level with the clubs that we believe and should believe by rights that we can compete with.

20:48I don't think he was the man that can do it. And now that he's gone, perhaps we can go on to achieve the things I think we can as a football club. but it's down to his work in the large majority, in the large portion. It's down to his good work. And so now that he's gone, how you feel about him should be nothing but positive because we're in a situation where we can compete. Because I tell you, there are two football clubs that are desperate, comparable sized football clubs that are desperate to be able to be in the position that we are in. And that's Newcastle and Aston Villa. And all they're doing is complaining about PSR, complaining about the rules that are preventing them from competing.

21:28And what Daniel Levy did over 25 years was put us in a position without winning, put us in a position where we can compete with these other teams. You can't deny that. And I'm not... That's true. But what I would say is that that hasn't been done for free. There's been a charge to that. And that has come to us in terms of what you paid to go to Tottenham for now, even before the new stadium was coming in. What you're paying for matches, what you're paying for Merch, what you're paying in general and how, and how the club generally approach fans and fandom. There has been a cost to that, which the fans have paid.

22:03So it's not like this is, we've just sat there and he's just kind of fed us with a bottle with all this nice stuff. And it's just taken 25 years for us to get on off the tip. This is, you know, we've, we've, we've paid for this in a, in an essence. Some people feel it more than others. The match going fans that go every week and some maybe that aren't, and it's not quite as close to the boat. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. so you know no you're right you're right this is what i mean that's why saying that you can only look back up you know with positive i think is a little bit because there has been a cost to what he's built and we have paid some of that charge i do have a habit of going 10 toes into my emotional feelings in this moment yeah you get that quiet yeah so perhaps Alex you you i'm being without doubt you're right to to bring that up um but i do i do think he had a massive role in yeah I think he's the reason isn't he that we can finish seven because I was talking to an Aston Villa fan yesterday at work and he was talking about their wage bill and he wasn't bleating and moaning like a lot of Villa vans do about Tottenham but you're right Alex is right in a way we've paid the price in terms of money and having to pay so much money to go to watch games and no success by the way and no success and we've had to pay the price of being the runt of the big six of being in this group this big six thing because we are the sixth biggest uh club in the country for me we're the biggest club in the country because we're the straw that stirs a drink and everybody wants to fucking talk about us but we've had to pay that price as well where we've had to be mugged off by other supporters because and i think for me the turning point was when we got into the new stadium and we started seeing beyonce and all these concerts and everything else, Formula One, NFL.

23:47And he's like, right, now go, now go, now go. And he just wouldn't, and he just wouldn't. And like you've said, Flav, he got us here. He couldn't get us to that next level. We needed someone to take us to that next level. And to answer the question, is it forwards, is it backwards? I think it's forwards. I think it's investment now. The noise has been too loud for too long that Qatar wanted to buy a piece of us. They wanted to buy a piece of us. And I think that's next. I just want to read out a tweet here from Swapfire and he says, Daniel Levy's 24 years at Spurs. Club value 80 million when they bought it in 2001.

24:23I think it was 55 million. But 3 billion plus in 2025. Infrastructure is new training centre and 1.2 billion pound stadium. On pitches, a one league cup and a Europa League. And revenue is 550 million pounds plus a year and Spurs are now a top 10 richest club, which again creates a platform, regardless of what you think about Daniel Levy and how much it costs to get in the stadium, but we're in this situation where we are without achieving anything compared to the other clubs that are in this top 10 richest club list. Nothing like what they've achieved on the pitch. We're still in that conversation.

25:04Now, the point is that we haven't won what these other teams have won. And what might come next is, and the actual duties and expectations of what comes next is winning trophies. Now I wonder who comes in whose agenda might be purely winning trophies rather than financial gain. And we have to acknowledge and accept that it's probably coming from a petro state or a American consortium similar to that of Bluko. I think it's going to be Vince McMahon. That'd be great. That would be amazing. How good would that be? It just becomes part of TKO. You've got UFC, UFC, WWE and Tottenham Hotspur. We don't know what you're talking about.

25:58We have no idea what you're talking about because we're grown men with willies and women. You watch UFC all the time. You watch UFC all the time. the only thing I would say on that also by the way is that the club has grown in value hugely and that is that's 60-70 % down to him but there's a huge part of that the money in football when did he take over? 2001? they took a share in 2001 but as far as I understand become a controlling owner in 2005-06 yeah so the last 20 years has been you know the amount of money that is in football from TV same for Newcastle same for Estavilla yeah yeah but that's grown in there but if you tried to buy it still there was an element on there but it's still something it's not all down to him I'm just I just want it to be balanced I want it to to know that that he's done a wonderful job mate but also on the other side but then saying that if he'd have got his way Flav Stratford you know that that's a big thing like if that had happened all of that discussion changes everything and that is what he wanted i'd be dead i'd be dead i wouldn't know my wife i wouldn't have married and had a happy relationship i wouldn't know you boys john wasn't even around when stratford conversation was happening the podcast wasn't around i'd be dead i'd have i'd have i'd have i'd have run in front of the fastest of echo i could see i'd have waited for it i'd have waited for it i'd have hide behind a bin on tottenham white road and i'd have waited for go a bit faster a bit faster so i'm obliterated yeah and it's called a naveco exit it's the only way out of line uh how do you feel that well i mean like if if i'm right in in assuming that there is a petro state or a massive it definitely won't be an english owner or a british owner it won't be a local owner like what if your business runs on five different apps 12 browser tabs and one spreadsheet that everyone's afraid to touch, it's probably time for Odoo.

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28:47Learn more at odoo.com. That's O-D-O-O dot com. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required, compatibility and availability varies 18+. Hey, Chicago. Class it up with Crocs. You know back to school is coming in fast.

29:25so why wait to find your new fave footwear step into a local croc store and step into your new look try it style it make it yours because the right pair doesn't just show up it shows off first day fits handled walk out ready for whatever's next visit your nearest croc store today If you think about Daniel Levy, he was and is Tottenham. And whether you agree with his decision making and his ability to get players over the line, he's a Spurs fan. You can't take that away from him. You can't. The people coming in won't be. They'll have a different agenda, whether it be profit or whether it'll be political, soft power, whatever it might be their motives will be completely different.

30:17Does it matter to you as a football fan as a fan of Tottenham that the motives of the owner will be perhaps situated in an area that's outside of North London? They really don't give a shit about the betterment of football clubs. They only give a shit about the betterment of the football club if it suits their own political agenda. does that bother you at all and it's fine if it doesn't because for a lot of fans out there it doesn't bother them well yeah from my side of things i'm like would it be great if it was someone from north london who became a billionaire and went oh yeah great i've got an opportunity to buy us but yeah of course i'd love that like that that's the perfect scenario but it's not going to happen and it's it's not going to happen in football generally forget spurs uh very often it's going to be super rare now so that basically leaves you with people who've got the financial your might to do it and they've all really got the same motivation more money more power right they've got different sort of details as to why those things are important whether it's sports washing or they want political power in the us or whatever it is but it's ultimately it's the same it's the same kind of motivations and you can get into the specifics of well these lot are involved with you know a nation that's got human rights issues or these lot are involved with mining and child labor these lot are involved in a company that's to do with arms and all sorts of shit if you go in far enough nobody is a is a good choice if you're taking the view from a moral perspective so in other words if they're all bad then it's sort of irrelevant right it's it's basically what from my perspective what you are looking for is is how they're going to treat and act with the club and with the fans and what happens on the pitch because the rest of it we can't control and to a certain extent we don't have much control over the football side of things either so I just want them to be like the city owners who go okay we want to get like good we want to get good reputation with sports washing the best way to do that is to be really good owners of a club and maximise what we do on the pitch win loads of shit do stuff for our fans be really engaged pump loads of money in and we'll also start growing and building the club which will give us more money and it gives us political sway that's the perfect scenario for me it's not perfect from a moral perspective because there is no perfect moral outcome in this scenario so all i want is them to pump loads of money and try and make us win loads of shit that's good for them and it's really good for us that's all i care about yeah i couldn't agree more city was the example i was going to do you know the the new council ownership have tried to do stuff around the area as well you know done stuff that is curry favours with fans like if anyone that is buying that you know the days of jack walker and peter coates and people like that that it's impossible it can't happen now because the money in the game is is too much we just end up in exactly the same situation so you know i understand in terms of petro states and all the rest of it but there are so many other things in our life that we hold dear and all the rest of it that that are involved with if you go far enough up the chain it's not something that you like but it's john's absolutely right the way to curry favor is by being brilliant owners you know and i i believe that the man you know sport is one of those things that once you are involved in it you want to win it becomes a percentage of what you want anyway regardless of just the power and daniel levy's responsibility has always has been to enic not to Tottenham you read I think I've said this before but we he I found the first program from the first program notes that Levy ever meant wrote and you read it and he sounds nothing like what he sounds like now like in terms of the tone and how he was describing about being a fan and it was just the way it was written and that's what happens after 20 years of living yeah yeah I appreciate what he wrote in that in that I know exactly what you're talking about in terms of talking about Rangers and, you know, how he operates and it's unemotional, it's like a business.

34:20But who he was then isn't what he is now. No, no, that's not what I'm talking. That's not what I'm talking. There's been a program where he talks about wanting to be in the stands and he talks about being a fan. And the majority of it is about being a fan. And I think he's become bitter over that time because of the criticism and stuff he got. But let's not get twisted. He might be a Spurs fan, but his responsibility and his delivery outcomes were to enic first and foremost if the success came afterwards that brilliant fantastic yeah but whilst the the project that they wanted that the english national investment group is was there to get from the position they are today to the position we're in now which he's done a fantastic job but that isn't necessarily to do with success on the football pitch because it was an after four i'm just in this position now I agree with everything that you're saying and there will be like a seismic outpouring of support of Daniel Levy's leaving the football club and I agree with it I really do but I think right now it's like I don't know man I just feel like it's uncouth I think we've done both I think we've stayed both sides I don't think there's anyone really who is sensible that looked at the position like you said flab where tottenham were 20 years ago you know 15 years ago to to where we are now you know my my some of my earliest my earliest i was born in 86 so some of my earliest memories of going to games at like 10 8 9 10 years old you know is us having to beat wimbledon two games before the end of the season to stay up and you know this this type of stuff but yeah you know in in the 90s where we were sort of looking at the fair play league and trying to get in that way yes so there's no there is no denying that he's done a brilliant job and i said that for the first two-thirds of his tenure and i was a big supporter of the fact that we are punching above our weight and you know we will get there but as time's gone on i'm just like actually you know i think the attitude has changed now where i think they think we're already here.

36:32Boys. Go on, John. I've got to go. So I'm just going to leave you with this. Obviously, we're losing the... We're losing Enoch. We're losing English owners. So to celebrate, I'm going to have sausage, beans and mash and raise the St. George's flag out of my kitchen window. As if it's not already. How many St. George's flags are hanging around your house currently? Oh, mate. I can see one in the background. Yeah, there's one. He's hung that one. There's one there. yeah next to my spurs have you painted any roundabouts John no we just painted the front of the house just kept it subtle completely rendered it white and red looks amazing and then we've done the union jack on the roof just so in case any helicopters are going past so I'll leave you boys in peace big day mad stuff we'll see what happens but onwards and upwards come on you spurs yeah thank you John I yeah this has been the most mental and weird podcast I've ever had to record because Daniel Levy has been a part of Tottenham and a part of our lives and the thing that we can blame for so long and and now he's gone and it's bizarre he came out on did it come out of nowhere?

37:44Do you think? Carl? No, I was listening to his foot on the way He hasn't said a fucking word in about an hour Sorry There's been noises all summer, hasn't there? After Donna Cullen left we you know the whatsapp group lit up a bit and it was peter charrington's name is it carrington or charrington i want to say charring sorry charrington thank you his name was mentioned there was talk about you know daniel levy going but it didn't happen and maybe they thought let's get through the transfer window and then daniel levy can move on and that seems to be it that we've got through this transfer window and i tweeted a couple of weeks ago after the airs i think fucking leavey out time to go and I think you can I get your point Flav mate it's you can thank him for his service you can acknowledge what he's done but it was time it was a long time for him to go he had taken us as far as he could and I'm just glad he's gone before I think 17th in the league was probably a factor like a club our size can't finish 17th in the league and he made the decision didn't he he made the decision to bring in Pochettino He made that decision.

38:50And Pochettino's... Posta Coglu. Posta Coglu. Sorry, Pochettino was the only fucking decent thing he did. Posta Coglu, he brought him in. He brought in Mourinho. He brought in Conte. He brought in Nuno. Regardless if it was the decision of Pratici or whoever was the director of football before that or if it was just Daniel Levy's decision, he made the decisions that meant that they were fundamentally failures. and he has to take accountability. And we just, it must have been three podcasts ago saying like, if Daniel Levy had hired Daniel Levy, how long ago would he have sacked him? And it would have been 20 years ago.

39:31Yeah. This message is brought to you by Apple Card, shave ice by the beach, a trip to the state fair and a throwback flick at the local drive-in. They're more than just items to check off the summer bucket list. There are also opportunities to earn 2 % daily cash back when you use your Apple Card with Apple Pay. Apply for Apple Card now and use in minutes with Apple Pay. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at AppleCard.com. Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink?

40:07Or a sweet vanilla? Smooth caramel, maybe. Or a white chocolate mocha. whichever you choose delicious coffee awaits find starbucks frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries hear that that's now crispier mccrispy strips meeting creamy caesar sauce sounds extra crispy caesar sauce at mcdonald's for a limited time and i think the other thing as well thinking about transfer windows what's kind of a bit noticeable to me for the last couple of years is we don't really do business with other clubs always doing business I think he's just fucked everybody off over the years even fucking on the last day with Manil Solomon like Palace doing playing city buggers on the last day I think and Bardi said something a couple of weeks ago about people want to outdo Levy now they want to out Levy Levy now they just want to fuck him over because he's been there so long that he's made enough enemies now and it was time it was time it's such a good point when you look at the lack of the business that we do with with other Premier League clubs yeah like it's it's mental really uh and that and like I said there will have just been too much water under the bridge from Premier League meetings where you know Spurs haven't backed other stuff and other clubs have or whatever it just it just festers and it just needs that window open and just to blow that those cobwebs out oh do you think that um do you think that again we've done another podcast about this but the overriding message from that podcast on the lab was that potentially the game has left Daniel Levy like the in the same way that footballers get too old and they can't compete at the top level that the the intricacies of running a football club in this modern era are so significant that he probably isn't equipped to do it anymore and so he should be he should go because if you look at the way arsenal liverpool chelsea even man united um man city they operate in a different world to the way we do i'm not talking about the quality of players come in but how we operate yeah no uh funnily enough no i don't think that because i think you know football is still is still a business and at that level it's about having the right people in the right positions and letting them get on with it that that you know that's the same for any business in there.

42:28I think his issue has been that it hasn't been the right people or he hasn't let them do the job that they've been to do. And I think that's a management style and it might have got to a point where Tottenham and football has become too big for him to be able to micromanage now because it's not possible. And I think where there's still an element of micromanagement in there, and we've even heard it in this transfer window, but there are still elements of where he is involved with it. that it's just not that game anymore so when you say left him behind i think it yes in a sense that where football has grown in there i just think it's probably his style of of ceo-ness and management however you want to describe it has been left behind just by the size of the industry now rather than rather than how other clubs operate but sorry well i was going to ask Carol, how do you think other fans of other football clubs see this?

43:25Because I've heard... I think they see it as a win. I think other fans will be buzzing. Maybe not buzzing, but happy that he's gone. Because I think... Sorry, they're worried about Tottenham now that he's gone or they think it's going to hold us back? I think there's a grudge and respect for Daniel Levy amongst the Premier League owners and Premier League fans to be a chairman of a big club for that long. They're desperate for Daniel Levy to stay because we'll never compete with them. Yeah, because that's where we've been. We've stagnated. We've been, like I said, the runt of the big six for the last whatever so many years since the big six thing has existed.

44:05We've always been the sixth biggest club with no ambition to be fifth. We've got the three red clubs and two oil clubs that we're competing with, and that's really hard. But I think with other fans, other fans will be there's a grudge and respect for Daniel Levy number one but number two they're going to know they're going to think are they getting sold? Are they getting Qatari owners? Are they getting big investment? I think they're going to be worried. I think other teams fans are going to be worried. If this was Villa or you know whatever or not Villa because obviously they haven't got the revenue to do it but let's you know let's say they did let's say suddenly you know the new stadium was on the cards and all the rest of it and then suddenly eBay were sold and it looked like someone that all the sounds were that was new yeah I'd be nervous I'd be thinking blind you know Tottenham are in a position now where we're producing this revenue and it needs someone to be able to harness it and then to put stuff on top of it to then to manipulate the PSR stuff like it's all very you know I look at things like Chelsea selling a women's team and by selling them a hotel and Villa doing the same and all of these other bits and pieces of things to do PSR and I'm a bit like I am kind of glad that we don't do that stuff but also i'm just like well am i just i don't know fucking dinosaur now i think there's so many people that feel exactly the same way yeah i'm just like well fucking me going yeah we don't do i don't know what i mean i'm sat here eating smoked mackerel out of a packet i ain't got a plate i'm just sat here eating it like this it's got me nothing like i want a plate give me a plate yeah how long do you just take the moral high ground before you go i just want and i yeah and i i and you know you know his facebook memories come up and sometimes every time where we've lost to Chelsea or Chelsea and I would call it when I was younger, I'd call it Chelsea and all of this stuff and I'm like, fucking hell, I'd love that now.

45:50I would bite your hand off. There's too much stuff going on in the world for us. Look, like I said, I'm sat there eating mackerel. Cal's got a picture of fucking wrestlers and Blonix Lewis behind him. You're sat there in some little office now where you do a podcast about football as a job in real life. It makes no difference what we think about any of this shit. So we just need to be able to enjoy it. it does make a difference it does why what will change nothing nothing I think it's no I know what you mean give me a play it's important how you feel about your football club like yeah but that will change that will go trophies like that will fucking make you love it I promise you let me take you to what something sorry Cal to cut you and I want to come back to you mate because Carl Walker said that he would give up a league title to win the Europa League with Tottenham for us to do it in the proper way and we still have the opportunity to do that if we don't sell to the Qataris or we don't sell to the you know a petro state you can it's palatable if you do it to America and then maybe there's some racial undertones there maybe that the money coming from the Middle East comes with it a political agenda and with America it comes with it an ability or a desire to make profit if you have the option we can make the right decision here where it could still feel organic.

47:12My worry is that if you get, and maybe it isn't even possible, regardless of who takes us over, because of PSR, Man City and Chelsea can't happen again. And that's a good thing. That's a really important thing. So if that is the case, let's take the more palatable route, and I think that is what it is, and just let some fucking... What's the more palatable route, though? I don't understand. It's an American prick to buy us and just put the money in. But what's the difference? I don't understand what the difference is. Genuinely, genuinely. The difference is that we don't have to have a conversation about blood money coming and funding success.

47:44If it comes from Blue Co. or White Co., or it might be now, then you don't have to have that conversation. And maybe we can just skirt around it. But if it's from, if it is, I just don't. Yeah, but that's a nonsense. You're kidding yourself. No, I'm not. It's not a nonsense because it's how I feel about the situation. I understand the practicalities of it and I understand that things may shift but I want to be able to talk about a football club without having to go yeah but there were fucking thousands of migrant workers that are dead because of football I just don't want to have to do that but they'll find that no matter what happens they'll find it because any investment coming in now and if there's a shift in the success level that Tottenham have from now to what it is there will be a reason for it and there'll be criticism off the back of whoever it brings it in you know if it's an american uh consortium that is anything to do with defense for argument say like you know that stuff will all maybe will all come maybe the lewis family will just take it over and will be massively successful because vivian lewis is like a you know understands what could do i yeah look i think you know we've also got to remember that actually nothing's changed in terms of ownership yet.

48:59So, you know, really the question is, is the, is the direction of the club in terms of the, the way it's managed and the way it is allowed to, to, to work under Enoch, is that going to change? That's, that's the biggest question now. And that's the bit where I'm, you know, probably not at the beginning, but. Cal, what do you, what do you want to say? Cause I feel like you need some room to breathe here. Is there anything you want to say about it at all? at all couple of things I think I actually think the medium term future isn't a full takeover I think it's someone buying 20-30 % and investing a billion pound into the club and then we just pump a billion pound on players and then we have a parade on the high road for the Champions League win and I've got I've got a belt over Eva's shoulder and we're just fucking bowling around giving it beans I like dressing belts for people that don't understand yeah it was yeah Yeah, I think that's the medium-term future.

49:57I think short-term, nothing's really going to change. I think that Lewis is going to be more involved. I think medium-term, though, I think it's a 20%, 30 % thing. No, other than that, other than that, I think I've said it all, really. Yeah, I'm happy. I'm happy with where we are. I just keep thinking about Xavi Simmonds right now and how gutted he is.

50:20Hold on a minute. The reason why I signed is because Daniel Levy, I've respected his growth of Tottenham Hotspur over these years and now he's gone. I didn't wonder if... I didn't mean to be against Bournemouth and now Daniel Levy's gone. For fuck's sake. The players, yeah. What are the players thinking? It's a good question. I wonder if, you know, in all seriousness, whether that would have been part of discussions that have been had with Frank and maybe, you know, with particularly Simmons, maybe not some of the, you know, Kota Kai, I'm sure, you know, they didn't tell him anything. But, you know, with Thomas Frank, say, look, this is this is the what the side of things is going to happen over the next three four years there is investment coming you'll see yeah this is what it is i'd be surprised if that wasn't uh if they had no idea about any of it yeah like you said we've been hearing things haven't we all summer you know there was after the donald like i said after the donald cullen thing it was like yep levy's next and then and and then it didn't happen and and like i said maybe they just thought let's just get through this transfer window let's do this and then and then we go and you know those noises and this the stuff about Qatar has been there forever and that Levy was in the way and the family were pissed off and the Lewis family were pissed off at him that's come from somewhere that's been around forever that noise can I ask a question who's had the worst day Angela Rayner or Daniel Levy I think it's God Ange hasn't had a good day yeah she ain't had a good day at all she's had a good day don't worry she'll be fine you've got three houses I fucking hope so I'm sure she'll be fine she'll be fine bless her alright nice one Alex nice one Cal and thank you John for joining us earlier it's been the Fighting Cup podcast I literally I haven't eaten my dinner was on the table and I've rushed to come here and you boys have rushed to come here to talk about something that no doubt the hundred other Spurs fans will also talk about Spurs podcast will also talk about but anyway we'll be back soon cheers lads alright

52:19Cock Cock