S15E30 - Keeping Quiet

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1:32FIFA World Cup meal. At participating McDonald's for a limited time. While supplies last. All rights reserved. 2026 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 2026. It's the fighting.

1:43It's the fighting. Cock. It's the fighting.

1:51It's the fighting. Cock. Oh, come on, son. No. You can have a sip of your coffee, Rick. Yeah, no, I just No one's going to see it. I saw the countdown time ago and I was like, oh, hello. Here he is. Yeah, but he was about to put the coffee cup to your mouth and then just put it down and just smiled at me. How are you, Rick? Yeah, good one. Now you say, how are you, Rick? After I've taken a sip, you twat. No, I'm good, mate. I'm good. Yeah, it's Sunday morning. I'm up, not hungover, sprightly. What, you're not having a few beers at the football, I suppose, in the morning, innit? Yeah, exactly. so i was able to have a few beers before and a few beers after and come out unscathed so well on the right on the train home was you all right was with your dad he kept me awake yeah yeah yeah oh yeah i was fine i i always have um you know when you just have uh traditions and there's a corner shop uh on the high road always go to that corner shop always get a couple of uh red stripe for the journey home so i had those and then yeah it was just it's a lovely kind of like buzz that you're not like uber pissed but you're kind of like you you could you could be a bit leery if you wanted to you know yeah you free sheets to the wind yeah you're all right yeah i went so good we had a few guinnesses the old man i watched the game and um I mean, how have you processed it?

3:25Like, how do you feel about it? I mean... It was so fucking close. So we went from being nowhere near to having it all to then having it taken away in the space of 10 minutes. It was... So I think that's a key reason of how I've processed it, exactly that, is that we were coming out of that game with nothing and it felt like there was nothing that was going to come out of it. and then when we had those two saves Romero and Paulina and I was just like it's just maybe it's just one of those days maybe it's just one of those days and then I was thinking is that the first shot that we've had on target is that the first time we've made the keeper work and I was like okay this is this is what's happening and then we went to one up I was like we are fucking we've stolen this we don't really deserve it but I'll take it all day long like much like your mum i'll gobble it up all day long my mum yeah your mum it's only me and you here boy

4:27i was just processing what i was gonna say but then you've just and then yeah then they scored and i was just like do you know what okay i can't really um yeah fair's fair i yeah it was a fair result don't get me wrong but you get into a position where you've you feel like you've won it all and uh and then obviously for it to be taken away is is tough i'll just really kind of gutted because it just we've had so many opportunities not just this season before it but we to build on something like we could have gone second i think if we would have won that game yeah not i mean temporarily obviously but yeah we could have gone second but there was opportunities i just i can't really work this out i can't work the league out i can't work who's good and who isn't um like even yesterday like the arsenal game like Sunderland they easily deserved a draw could have could have won and I'm like so I don't know where it's we're in a strange place with the Premier League where it's just like with the there's no there's no sort of it's hard to define what good is like it doesn't feel good watching Spurs at the moment necessarily no certainly the last 20 minutes was fine actually we grew into the game for sure but it doesn't necessarily feel good but then then you know united could have gone second if they won and and and so you're looking at these performances in isolation hoping for a different style of football a different brand of football or a bit more bit more exciting take more shots on and then you could also look at it like well we had we kept man united at bay yeah they didn't in that second half they didn't have a sniff no and that's control that's game control that's an important part of it and And in previous iterations of what Tottenham is, we've had dreadful first halves and come back better the second half.

6:21I wonder how much of this narrative around Franken has been built up and so people are looking for it. What did Man United register in terms of XG in that second half or chances created? None, like we did in the first half. Yeah, yeah. um and then in the second half you know we had two really good opportunities scored two goals and yet people are still really well not say people i mean you go on twitter and you'll find people that are unhappy we can win four nil when you find people that are unhappy yeah so it isn't reflective like what were the conversations like you had at the game um i think well the conversations that I had at the game, I think people would just kind of...

7:11Obviously, people have their players that they like. People have their players that they dislike. People were talking about the game as in we got the draw. It's a shame that it came so late on. It's a shame that United had 10 players at that time, and it's a shame that no one picked up the fucking tallest centre-back on the pitch probably who nodded it in but I think where people are it wasn't like we played United and played them off the park and we deserved more so people weren't too down in the dumps about it I think people realized the game for what it was and like you were saying like United could have gone second as well.

7:59And watching the actual quality of football being played, it didn't look like two teams that were challenging for second in the league. Well, that's what I'm saying.

8:12It's like you almost don't have to be great in order to put points on the board. Chelsea had opportunities yesterday against Wolves, I don't know if you saw that game, but up until 50 minutes, half chances. against the worst team in the league. Obviously, they went on maybe in 3-0 in the end, but it's just like, it's so hard to understand what was going on in the Premier League, I think. And there's also the kind of division of quality is significant enough to mean that it's difficult to break teams down or beat anybody. Like, Sunderland have come up and looked one of the most organised best teams in the league, but there will be an expectation and an understanding when you play Sunderland at home that we absolutely should be beating them.

8:59And that isn't based in reality. It really isn't. This idea that playing at home and expecting to win and winning 80 % of your games just isn't a reality for most people in this league apart from Arsenal. And I think a lot of how we feel about our football club is being dominated by them a little bit. I don't want to admit it. I don't want it to be true. but when they're seemingly running away with the league and then you look at us and you think it's a little bit stunted, but I think it's stunted everywhere. I think the style of football was changed to become so direct that the kind of free-flowing nature that we're used to in the Premier League is almost secondary, even from the league leaders.

9:43Man United looked like, to me, we both really looked like a mid-table team, but I think everybody seems to look like a mid-table team. Do you know what I'm getting at? Yeah, I do. It feels like, to tell you what it feels like, for me anyway, that you've got a lot of fans that have grown up with the Premier League and watching Tottenham and stuff like that. And then once you get past a certain age, your brain kind of stops learning new information. And we're so used to having this kind of a thought process of, We've got Wolves, we've got Sunderland, we've got Burnley at home. Three points. It's a day out on the piss, isn't it?

10:28Just fucking get the game over with and let's celebrate the three points. But teams are so close. There's like a paper kind of thin gap between what actually is like a great functioning team versus a free-flowing attacking team. And at the moment, teams just want points. and you have to exhaust every type of method, whether it's long throw-ins or set pieces and corners and when you kick off, kicking the ball at the corner flag, whatever it might be, it's all these kind of 1 % that everyone's trying to capitalize on because they know the opposition are going to do it. So it's more like, it's a bit more like a chess match.

11:15It's a bit more boring and you're waiting for other people's mistakes rather than trying to create your own and i think it's hard for us as well because i was thinking about this last night um like why are we because i didn't want to because i felt like i was going to be coming on the pod right and i was like i don't want to go on there and be negative and being like fucking this person shit that person's and like and just been like really unhappy because if you think about it like Kulisevsky, Madders and Solanke are all missing and they're really hugely uh important to us and they've been missing all season.

12:02Kudus has been our you know our outlet he's been our driving force he's been like like yesterday when um we are inviting the press it's gone back to the defenders it goes to vicario two or three times yesterday he waited and waited was about to be pressed booted the ball and it went out but it went out on the right and he's looking for kudos and and it's hitting johnson there is no way johnson is going to challenge for the ball or even win the fucking ball and it went out anyway and it just made me so frustrated but if kudas was there maybe a different story yeah so it's trying to factor in and being balanced enough to know that the players that we have in at the moment are covering for our starting 11 players right i mean yeah but then also it's trying to kind of like deal with frank and who's our best attacker who's our best person on the left how are we gonna even if he does feel like he knows our best team he has to rotate we had chelsea saturday we had champions league on tuesday we had another game on saturday you know what i mean it's like he has to manage that so i think there is i think this is like that's a that sort of tired cliche from yesterday year that doesn't know his best team no one has a best team the last squad that needs to be rotated yeah you know what i mean like and even if he did know his best team we've got 11 first team players out so it's it it doesn't matter does it like it's not relevant at this point like he might know his best team you can't put it out kudis isn't available madison isn't available kielicevsky's not available all those three 100 start for Tottenham or yeah I would say though if like Udogi and Odebeir why didn't they start because for me that would have been our best team and I get probably why Spence was there instead maybe to you know Udogi is coming back from an injury so you don't want to rush him and play too many games but also uh what's the chap diallo diallo that he is fast as fuck he's going to be cutting in spencer needs to lock him up and so it's not going to be like our attacking outlet it'd probably be more like poro so i understand that but like i just don't understand what Idlebeer didn't play.

14:36Why didn't he start? Like he would, he's easily, I think now, our best left wing option that we have at the club. Yeah, when he came on, I think that shift, that he was the shift. When we started to get control of the ball, you know, from basically kickoff more or less in the second half through to about 70 minutes, it was just, we just dictated play completely. And then Man Utd I'd had a little bit and then we had the rest of the play barring the league's header at the end. And a lot of that was down to Odebeir and Simmons working until he came off. It was his best game in the Premier League, probably bar the Leeds game, which is a different conversation.

15:20What I found he was doing actually was just finding, he was dropping into space. He was finding his own space much better than he had done previously. Whereas we were trying to find him in the ball in situations where he was kind of crowded out by the Chelsea defenders, for example, who did a good job, and don't get me wrong, in playing up against Caicedo, I think you're playing against the best six in the world. Yeah. And I think he'll be, I've said this previously, he will retire from the Premier League as maybe the best six we've ever seen, right? Up there with Makaleli, in my opinion. So it isn't too damning an indictment on Xavi Simmonds to struggle against that Chelsea midfield, right?

16:04But what he did differently against these, and you've got less of an issue with Casemiro, who's a little bit leggy, who had a decent game yesterday. But you've got Fernandes, who's moving around. So there's more space for Simmonds to operate in. And I just thought, barring slips and things that are frustrating to watch, but I guess these things happen, it was a better performance. and I was a little bit frustrated when he came off but I didn't think it was that big of a deal and actually we scored two goals after he came off the pitch one from Mattis Tell and the other one, well, Odebev and Richarlison so both subs made a massive difference and I get you can criticise Frank for the way of him playing necessarily or whatever it is, but you've got to give him praise when he literally changes the game, scores two goals from subs that he's brought on and made difficult decision with Simmons and it works.

17:04It doesn't matter whether you booed or you didn't like the idea, it worked. So he needs to be given credit for that. Yeah, I think I wanted Odebeer to start. I want a front line until Madison comes back to be Odebeer, Simmons, Kudus and Mwani up top. Yeah. But we'll see. Is there any news on Mwani? Was it tactical? I have seen reports that he had a problem with his jaw and he's gone for scans after the game. Oh, good. Yeah, so I don't know what happened there. What happened was Maguire, when he was challenging, they clashed heads. Do you remember the bit where he went down and Maguire sort of helped him up or called for a...

17:58Do you remember that? Yeah, I do actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was that incident in the first half and he was down for a while, but they didn't mention it on the commentary. Because it would have been surprising if he would have been taken off and Richarlison was left on. I'm not going to criticise Richarlison. I'm not going to say. And actually, do you know what? He wasn't horrible yesterday. That's all I'll say. There was an opportunity for him to... I mean, he should have scored that header, free header from, I think it was Poros Cross or was it Simmons? Yeah. He should have done that. I thought he'd linked up play pretty well in that period of dominance in the second half to 20 minutes we had.

18:35I thought he was fine. He was okay. Honestly, yesterday, that first half, because I'm in the standing bit and I have the rails in front of me, I was gripping that rail so hard in frustration. I thought I was going to cry at one point. I was looking down the left-hand side, right, and Richarlison, he's just shifting. He's a striker. Of course he's just going to go there. And he was just shifting along, and he's like, right, you need to be out there. There's no one there. That's where you're playing today, mate. And he's like, okay, okay, right. And then within seconds, he's just standing next to Marani.

19:09I'm like, fucking hell, get back over there. But then Spence, obviously, as a left-back, he's naturally drifting in as well. There were times I was looking down my left. There was no one there. literally no one and spence couldn't pass out to anyone couldn't move it forward and i was just like fucking hell this is so frustrating but um yeah i uh i can't i i can't agree with you with um richard he got the goal fair play to him he got the goal but there was a time there was a bit where um i haven't watched it back and i didn't actually see it in the highlights where i believe was it Johnson put a ball across the box in the first half and he was, it felt like he was open.

19:51He didn't get to it, stopped his run, something like that. I feel like he should have put it. He should have been there or put it in another point in the second half where we're on a break and he had the ball and Simmons is running on his outside to the right. And he needs to play into space because Xavi is there and he plays it behind him. And I'm like, I mean, look, I think by his standards, it was an okay performance. I'm not in any way defending Richarlison, right? Everybody knows. It's boring for anyone who listens to the podcast regularly knows how I feel about him. So I'm not going to have anything.

20:32Yeah, but I mean, looking at his natural position, Rick, I've got this sofa score up. And as you were talking now, I was wondering what his average position was. And you're right. He's tucked in. He's tucked in right close to Mawani. Yeah. Too close. The width isn't there. I know that might be tactical, but it probably was more about his inclination to get into that nine position as much as possible. Yeah, because I didn't know if it was like, oh, okay, let's not jump on his back. Is it 4-4-2? And he's told them to go up there. But then I see him drifting out. You also write about Jed Spence as well.

21:12looking at his average positions, his average position was pretty much on the edge of the center circle. Fuck. That's how that's how tucked in. There's elements to that you could believe that are beneficial defensively. You're compact in the midfield. In terms of natural whip it was all coming from Brennan Johnson and that's the thing you think of like it's going to be it's going to be stunted if you've got three players that never played together right I know they trained together but you got you got Richarlison playing out of position or arguably out of position or being on the pitch but on on the left hand side you got Brennan Johnson as we know his limitations and then you got Moana you I think he had nine touches in the first half so he's kind of being starved of um of of of what was it would you call it service the ball starved the service ricky yeah yeah what i was looking for yeah yeah yeah and um yeah it was only when when the change is made that it kind of things shifted so after that like just saying about uh richie and spence drifting in on that left-hand side that's when i was and a lot of the talk um when i was chatting to my dad i was just like like why didn't we start adogie and why didn't we start a bit and they balance was so much better wasn't it yeah it was just giving us that natural wit from linking up with javi and then when tell came on as well um it just felt a bit more um attacking like they wanted to do those one twos and balls around the corner and stuff like that fourth of july savings are happening now at the home depot with select appliances starting at$398.

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24:01New summer arrivals are at Nordstrom Rack stores now. Get ready to save big with up to 60 % off brands like Rag & Bone, Levi's, Adidas and Free People. Join the Nordic Club to unlock exclusive discounts, shop new arrivals first and more. Plus, buy online and pick up at your favourite rack store for free. Great brands, great prices. That's why you rack. So I was like, well, why did we not start that way? And I get, so this is where I am like, why didn't we start that way? Fucking hell, look at that left-hand side. And then me trying to kind of process the game yesterday of if Dogi's coming back from injury, we've got a lot of injuries.

24:45We don't want any more injuries. We, you know, Frank's, how he plays is more pragmatic. Maybe change up in the second half to be more attacking with a homesteader. All these different things. And then obviously Kudus is out. and he's our outlet and he's been our main attacking force and so I didn't want to go fucking ten toes on Brennan bless him but then when the balls popped over to him and he kind of there's space in front of him I'm like just go just go just go and then he looks back and the ball comes back into Poro and I'm like fuck's sake he can't do it he can't beat players you know go where it's not and and and the and this is about profile yeah this is about the level of the player and look if being honest right if the injuries weren't a problem if Kulosevsky and Kudus were fit Johnson wouldn't get a sniff exactly so we're playing we're having to play a third string we're playing Richarlison who shouldn't be on the pitch but what else can we do yeah that or Dane Scarlett who you know he's I know people are calling for him but who is it yesterday he said no it's Ben Ben Bowman yesterday he goes players get better the less they play do you know what I mean when they're on the bench everyone's like hankering around hankering for something that's just different not better yeah necessarily better it might be um but it's interesting like what you were saying about so when when odabare and the doggy came in suddenly there was balance yeah and their average positions are wide yeah both of them yeah in fact the doggy played in terms of his average position with the ball effectively as a as a in the left wing position uh because he was getting forward so much when he come on so um not that he was playing left back obviously but yeah those positions yeah that's interesting what did you um what do you make of a charlinson's celebration i mean like uh first of all i was like fucking hell man like like the bare bones of it right he is probably feeling under pressure that he's not scoring or he's not doing as well as he wants to be he's human so he's reading comments online right he's going to be doing that so he he knows about that equally the boos that rung around when tell came on and xavi came off was telling because i don't know if he knew he obviously heard the boos maybe didn't know why we were booing so much but everyone was booing because richarlison shouldn't have been on the pitch, in my view.

27:23And it's like, that's the wrong sub. At half time? When was it? When did Xavi come off? 70... Oh, right, right. 76 minutes or... No, no. Sorry, sorry. 70 minutes. Yeah, so the booing of... So the booing of Xavi being taken off and he's having a good game. Why was you booing? What was your reason for booing? Mate, I was just booing the whole game. From kickoff, it was just... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even like the, you know, the Remembrance Sunday, the trumpets, just me just booing all along, just getting started early. I didn't do that. So do you think that the frustration then was that Richarlison was left on the pitch?

28:09Yeah, I do. I really do. I thought my interpretation was it was because Simmons is coming off. It was because, I feel like it was because Simmons was coming off and he was having a great game. But equally, it's like how, from the noise around me and from overhearing everyone, it's like, have you chosen to take Simmons off and not Richarlison? What is your thought process? You can see how he's playing. Right. They were all wrong though, weren't they? But you've left him on. Everyone was wrong. He scored. And he, at that time, when he was wheeled in a way, whether it's he felt the booze whether it's he has been reading the comments online whether he knows within himself he can do better and score more he's just scored a last minute winner so he thought so obviously he's going to be taking his top off and it's against man united it's on tv the you know the world is watching this game yeah there's going to be a lot of kind of um energy that he needs to release and the shirt coming off knee slides just did i didn't see but i could have sworn someone said he was crying i don't know i don't know people are just putting more like lies on top of it yeah punch a fan in the face he was so fucking pumped up did he yeah oh i don't think he cried um i think it was excessive um every time he thinks he scored a winner, we end up fucking conceding.

29:43The Liverpool game was the same thing when he threw it up. No, he was clearly emotional. I didn't see him cry though. Right, okay. Just one of them. Was the ball going in anyway, do you think? It's a hard one, isn't it? I don't. I probably, I need to have a look at a different angle but from what I've seen I don't think it was so when you see it first it looks like it's going in anyway and then there's another angle and it looks like it's going just wide yeah so I mean it's great death flick yeah um we didn't have to think about it it was just in in the corner and uh mate I was buzzing I was absolutely buzzing and kind of like you want the underdog to win sometimes even if like I don't think that Richarlison is good enough I was happy for him that he had that moment and I was buzzing that he scored but it just you know obviously we knew what would come next so it's hard to enjoy it now Odebeer though he's really grown into that left hand role and he's really suddenly we know we've been promised a lot about him I've done podcasts with people Harry Brooks for example thought that it was an incredible signing when we brought him for Burnley way back, you know, it must have been 18 months ago now, I don't remember where it was.

31:08And he said it was an amazing signing, but we hadn't seen any, even glimpses really in a Spurs shirt. Yeah. And he's starting to look comfortable, like he comes out there, which is really good for us. I don't know if you've ever seen him and Tell play in any of the Under-21s games. Go ahead and look at some highlights, mate. He looks, I mean, they both look great. Yeah. But Odebeer looks like a different level. And obviously, he is a different level. Yeah. He looks like he shouldn't be playing at that level. That's how easy it looks for him. And he often takes the ball away and he'll push it into space, find space by driving.

31:44Yeah. And that kind of player pulls defenses all over the place. Yeah. A nightmare to deal with. A bit like Ahmad yesterday. It was a big problem for us. And we kind of did all right with shutting him down. But he's a similar sort of profile to Odebeer. and you know when you're playing against stubborn defenses or very excellent defenses probably is a better way to describe it he um he can he can uh he can cause problems just by by by being difficult to track but the the amount of distance he covers and how quick he is makes it a big problem and you can feed off that and yeah i mean like i know you were frustrated i think i was i We were all frustrated he didn't start the game.

32:28Frank actually said it was a tactical decision. Different oppositions mean that different profiler players are needed. That's why he didn't start. It wasn't a fitness thing. Oh, I hadn't seen that. So it was tactical for why Odebeer didn't start. Yeah. He said, so Thomas Frank confirms that dropping Odebeer and Odebeer was down to different personnel for a different type of match. so he might be worried about Ahmad on that left-hand side and thought that Spence would be able to lock him up right I don't know how he's looking at Richarlison and think that's a tactical advantage over he's obviously seen something he's always yeah it's like I don't know he's like when after he's sorry tell me about Odabel before I've got another question about Frank yeah he um like just you know everything that you've said and watching him for the France under 21s and linking up with Tell.

33:28Obviously, it is a different level than the Premier League. I get that. But still, to do it on that stage, you have to have something. Do you know what I mean? You have to have that talent and that in your locker, that mentality. And he's a young kid, man. He is still really young. Premier League, a lot of pressure on him to do well. And he's had a huge injury and he's been out for ages. So it's going to take a lot of time. And I think sometimes it's really hard. And like, even for myself, right. And I'm saying this now, even for myself, it's hard to get my head around how long it takes players to acclimatize to the Premier League.

34:06And like you, when we have bought these players, Bergvall, you just like, even though they're young and you've seen the, you know, you've seen the YouTube clips and you think, right, pick them up, drop them in. They'll do exactly what they were doing in their league. Done, done and dusted. It just doesn't work like that. And we are so wanting the now, the right now of players to be, you know, bought off the shelf, stick it in, away we go. And previously, we haven't done that. We're investing in talent, young talent, great talent. And when we have 10 injuries to senior players, these players are going to be playing, but they're going to be on the cusp of being ready or showing glimpses of what they've got.

34:49and then other times they're not going to be at the races and that's when you kind of have to um try and be a bit more balanced even though i find it hard and i just end up going into my front room and just punching those cushions uh you know just about thomas frank and he does it every week but he just he just talks about how good your position is all the time like he did Spurs like when we played him like he it was oh like what on midfield Bentancourt Paulini sorry Bentancourt Kulisevsky and Madison like an incredible midfield like he it's kind of like it's you know that's who he is he wants to acknowledge the qualities of the team but sometimes it's like just stop talking about them yeah United have improved a big threat going forward is what he said and I'm like were they because I didn't really feel like they did anything going forward, really.

35:49And I'm like, is Thomas Frank saying that because, you know, look how well we nullified them. They've improved. Is he actually boosting his players? Yeah. Or does he just like sucking off other teams? Well, I mean, I think just because he's a nice guy and professionally you need to acknowledge. but I would like to see him metaphorically get his dick out, like at the table, the presser, just pulls his trousers and boxes down to his ankles, gets his dick out, and he's like, we're going to attack them. This is what we're going to do. How are they going to cope with this? I want to hear fucking Amorim talking about what we're going to do rather than worrying about anything else.