S15E41 - To Talk Is To Do

10:30Trevor Bygate:Much more people say they call quite regularly.

10:32Josh James:I would imagine COVID had a massive impact on mental health. We were living through a period of... Yeah. Well, nothing was normal. No one knew when it was coming to an end. And it was scary at times. so I would imagine if you were sort of that way inclined, it could have a massive impact on your mental health.

10:56Micky Hazard:Yeah, I mean, it's incredible. I mean, it's a strange thing. Think back of COVID and what everyone sort of went through was a very odd and strange time, and, you know, let's hope we never have to go for anything like that again. It actually went football return after COVID. What an incredible thing that was. What a joy.

11:13Josh James:It was, wasn't it? It's interesting that we lived through this, And then this joyous thing came back. And it was like everybody appreciated it so much more. Yeah. Because we'd been without it. And then as time progressed, we're back to normal again. Yeah, yeah. Taking it for granted. Yeah.

11:32Emma Adjei:Indeed, indeed. It was like someone switched the light bulb back on, wasn't it? Yeah. And football came back for me.

11:37Micky Hazard:Yeah, no. It was, the amount of respite that it gives people is insane. And through this episode of the podcast, we're going to be talking to, we've got three callers that are going to come and share their story who responded to our request for people to write in and and tell us what about their experiences and how they managed to to get through them and recover through the the means of communication but before we do that before we talk to our first one I think we're talking to Bobby first I want to ask you Mickey to talk a little bit about your nephew Jay and the legend on the bench charity that you set up yeah

12:16Josh James:so back in 2019 my nephew Jay he's a wonderful human being he was as happy go lucky as you could ever imagine he would get excited to buy him a cheesecake he was on top of the not a cheesecake, a cheeseburger he was on top of the world he was such a great kid so when the phone call came to me from my sister's next door neighbour informing me of what had gone on driving from where I live to my sister's house was probably the most distressing drive that I think I'd ever had I didn't believe I was going to get there and it seemed to take days instead of half an hour I haven't got there the chaos the devastation to see all my family

13:18Josh James:so utterly shot was not good and I don't think I reacted in the best way either I got angry obviously was part of the process in sorting everything out I'd called my sons informed them what happened could they get round as quickly as they could they arrived

13:46Josh James:facing up to that chaos was absolutely horrific but interestingly throughout the chaos while I was sort of stomping around full of anger fuller of no understanding of what's gone on what's happened why my sister saw this this sort of went on throughout the night the call came at five o 'clock in the evening, early evening, and throughout the night, and it was now about 12 o 'clock in the evening, my sister was so in complete devastation, she took herself out of the room. My sister was very scared of the dark, but she took herself out of the room, and she walked through Sawbridge's to the churchyard.

14:30Josh James:It was pretty dark in the churchyard at night, and no lighting, and somehow, maybe by fate, Whatever it was, something led her to a bench. And she sat on a bench and she sat there, her thoughts running wild, totally devastated. But even in the midst of the thoughts and the devastation, she was thinking, I'm scared of the dark. What am I doing here? This bench needs a light. It needs a light. It needs a light to show people the way. and ultimately you know when I look back on Legend of the Bench that was when Legend of the Bench was born that was when the idea of the bench lit up for the night that was when it was born um and while um we were addressing the problems of the devastation the funeral etc um nothing was disgust nobody nobody could even talk we were we were all in completely shock um but as time passed my sister um and something that i sort of feel such incredible admiration for her because of this was that even in her darkest deepest sadness and uh and devastation she came up with this idea she approached me mickey i've got this idea i want to do to leave a legacy for jay yeah tell me about it so she came up this idea bench she designed the bench herself um exactly she painted a picture of exactly how she wanted this bench she wanted it lit up throughout the all of the darkness the message being at the end at the end of the darkness comes the light of day um so but also for the bench to act as an attraction for someone coming into a park walking through the park late at night pitch black and sees this light in the distance and they make the way to this light and as they approach this light that they see the message lit up someone is always listening and then as they sit down they see um the plaques on there with the telephone numbers of people like the samaritans and mind etc people that are closely working with Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.

16:54Josh James:They weren't then, so it was quite a shrewd choice from my sister, really, that no Samaritans of mine are involved heavily with Spurs. And, of course, in the middle of the two plaques with all the telephone numbers, we fitted a QR code, a QR code with a direct link to our website. If you clicked on that, that took you directly to the website and it took you directly to press this button if you need help. That button would then take you to even more numbers and everything. And the legend of the bench was born. And just touching back to the lighting, my sister would not allow any bench to be installed till we'd found, and remember this was in memory of her son, the first bench.

17:43Josh James:they wouldn't allow any bench to be installed until she'd found a company that would install the lighting that would keep it alight from um six six quarter night till six in the morning so um now that was difficult because we had uh solar panels at the top of the bench which would attract sunlight but it would only stay alight till about three in the morning so finding the the how we were going to do this so we had to go to a company in germany who sort of found a battery operated solar panel which would attach itself to the solar panel so that would attract the light into here and when this one ran out it would then feed the light back into the solar panel so it was lit up throughout the throughout the all of the evening which which was um absolutely amazing i thought and uh imagine walking through a park you see a light in the distance what's your foot what's that light you make your way to the light message someone always listen what you're going to do you're going to you're going to know someone cares yeah um i i think that's one of the key things for me is that if you make your way to that bench and you sit on the bench it's impossible not to think someone cares they care enough to have made this bench to put these numbers on it And that means that I matter.

19:04Josh James:I matter. This is my story. This is my life. And I matter. And I'm not alone. There's someone there with me because someone's ready to listen. And I think that's the key thing about it all is, you know, we talk about talking being something that's a necessity and one million percent it is. but listening is equally as important because if someone's ready to talk and there's nobody to listen to and then the talking becomes pointless so having these telephone numbers and access to them at the click of a switch sort of meant that at the moment that they needed that support and that help it was right there by their side as they walked through that part they sat on that bench they looked at the light they saw the numbers that's the moment that they're contemplating um and in a dark place that's the moment they need the support that's the moment they need the

20:02Micky Hazard:help and it's right there before them lovely um sort of symbol of lighting up a dark place and it sounds like a lovely way to honor uh jay and um thanks so much mickey for sharing my pleasure thank you um well sometimes it's difficult when for the people hearing the news right or hearing if someone comes to you and saying I feel bad I have a problem I feel like I shouldn't be here whatever it might be Emma like how how what what should you do what's the best thing to do if you're receiving that information like say if I one of my brothers came to me and said that or a friend of mine saying I'm feeling really low what what's what's is there a correct way to approach that or is can you give any advice because people will be listening to this and it will be put in that

20:47Trevor Bygate:situation it's it's probably it's actually easier as a samaritan lesson and i guess if somebody was come up to me in real life who i who i knew and cared about yeah because i can't see the person on the other end of the phone but um if you're the fact that they're talking in the first place i think it's important to let them know that you also may have struggled um just emotionally because a lot of people's issues are common day issues um and they may think that somebody else is handling it but actually you don't have to say what the issue is but to say you know i've struggled to um to not judge i think is important but when it's a loved one it is hard not to give advice so we're samaritans are trained we don't give advice we can support you and explore your

21:33Micky Hazard:feelings and emotions but we don't give you advice it's like an opportunity to get something off your chest yeah you you part of your work is through um is is working and talking with people yeah

21:46Emma Adjei:difficult situation yeah so when I lost my daughter I sort of looked into how I could sort of change and support other people and I became a papyrus champion which is prevention of young suicide so you know I travel around giving presentations for them but then after I went through the whole recovery process of being a veteran and bereavement uh my joint cruise as a cruise bereavement support worker for adults then i did children and i did my level five diploma in grief and bereavement counseling so now i currently sit with children and active listening paraphrasing you know um and it's not the easiest thing to do when you've got children who can ask you a question

22:30Josh James:yeah yeah do you feel because you've lived it i mean real life lived through it and still here to talk about it today do you think that it gives you more power to talk about it more knowledge to talk about it because you've lived through the emotion of it all because if i can't imagine if i hadn't lived through what i've lived through if i was talking about it could i talk about it with the same passion do you feel that when you're giving your speeches that having lived through it it enables you to talk with more passion and more knowledge i think for me personally living through

23:06Emma Adjei:it has given me a great bravery to to to speak about it um i never want another family to go through what i've been through especially as a serving soldier and having to beat a soldier

23:20Josh James:first not a grieving father uh you lost you lost your daughter while you were serving yeah so i

23:25Emma Adjei:was actually in arizona on a military exercise prepping for afghanistan when chloe took her own life and it was just so happened that i got time to facetime my wife uh and the house phone rang and that was my parents telling me that my daughter had been found so uh you know to be a long long way from home was difficult i had to get an emergency flight back from phoenix straight to where she was to see her in the chapel of rest um and that trauma will always live with me but you learn to sort of i've had a lot of therapy sessions with emdr and great charities like the book and with the wounded so it helps you realize that uh and the warrior program as well it really helped me realize that the trauma is there but i can control it uh i can control control all that because it's it's not my burden to carry if you know what I mean yeah and to get involved for I mean I did a lot of charity work as well so when Chloe died I was cycling across the country in September afterwards to just get some focus and try and help other people and then over the four years of serving I did eight marathons and ultra marathon and uh cycle around London and stuff it just kept me focused kept me focused and I was using it some people I'd say it was a distraction method to distract away from the pain.

24:49Emma Adjei:And I still served as well. I still had to go on intelligence officers' courses and exercises. But it was difficult being a soldier. And eventually, after 20 years and six months, I was medically discharged with complex PTSD, which was hard because I lost my house and my job and my uniform and my friends and stuff. But, you know, I really worked hard on reframing my thoughts. and when I sit with the kids as well I talk about reframing and make it really simple for them and I'll say to them I don't like lemons but I like lemonade so it's a lemon and it makes me a like out of it and that's you know how I've lived and to be a papyrus champion and travel around the country giving presentations to police paramedics social workers coroners Ipswich football club I do my own presentation called trauma to recovery my Invictus journey because I went to the Invictus games in February and uh you know to do that and stand up and talk about I can talk about suicide because I know it could save a life and that's what drives you on and you know to go to the Suicide Breedbook UK conference the last couple years in Manchester and then that teaches you we have a purpose and if your why is big enough you will achieve what you want to achieve um and we said earlier that the I've run marathons and ultra marathons but that longest journey I ever made was making from here to here and getting it to make sense but when it makes sense it works and for me now to sit with children and take them through their lost journey and I've got a young guy young lad he's eight for the minute whose dad took his own life and I'm sitting with him and trying to help him work it out and yeah I don't know what you would say to an eight-year-old

26:36Micky Hazard:who that's happened to?

26:38Emma Adjei:Well, he asks why his dad, Josie, didn't want to be here. But we all remember that. What do you say? Well, with mental health and suicide and stuff, I am a big believer that the people I take around don't get the choice. It's the illness. It's the darkness inside that pushes them to do that. And just because we haven't got a broken leg and we can't see it, we haven't got a plaster on or a bandage, doesn't mean that it isn't a traumatic illness, a traumatic injury. Yeah. And something's happened inside to trigger that. Nobody, you know, I used to sit in sob sessions, which is survivors of bereavement by suicide, and people would say, do you not hold your daughter guilty for what she did?

27:19Emma Adjei:I was like, no, I'll never do that because, you know, it wasn't her choice.

27:27Micky Hazard:Thank you so much, Trevor.

27:28Josh James:The manager of the bench, you're actually working quite closely with subs. they are installing some of our benches throughout the UK which is incredible really Samaritans also believe it or not we're working closely with them as well and they're installing some of our benches as well so the great thing for me about the old picture it's not just about my picture or your picture the old picture is that the old of mental elf charities work together because together together we can make a difference and the beauty of the difference the difference means that we get to hear someone say i'm still here yes yes and for me the connection with mickey

28:16Emma Adjei:and michelle's sister was like a life-changing for me in a way because when i don't have a grave are ashes. So when I connected with Michelle and we got two, the benches installed in our local town in Ipswich and Hadley, you know, one of them I dedicated to Chloe with her name on so you've got the QR code that is Timeless Tribute and it takes you to her page with the photographs. See, I forgot to mention the music. I put a song on there of hers. It's amazing.

28:44Josh James:That is an amazing...

28:45Micky Hazard:So anybody can scan that on their phone and...

28:48Josh James:Yeah, so what it is, Flav, it's an amazing piece and it was donated to the charity by one of Jay's school teachers who set that up as a business. So it's called Timeless Tribute. And what it is is a QR code. And when we are installing a bench, like we did with Trevor's for Chloe, we sent a Timeless Tribute QR code to Trevor and Trevor would upload videos and pictures of his daughter on there and then it would be installed on the bench so anybody who went there could click the QR code and then share magical moments of Chloe's life. We did it with Jay. We went and Jay clicked on the QR code and we were spending magical moments with my nephew and my sister's son and my sister goes there regularly and spends time with her son.

29:39Josh James:So it's not just about the people that's gone. It's also about the people that has the alia because they need support and help too and the timeless tribute as Trevor's talking about is is absolutely an incredible incredible thing and just recently we've been dealing with the Jimmy Greaves Foundation they donated two benches uh for they paid for two benches um and we sent the q the qr code the timeless tribute to Jimmy's daughter um and we'd actually made it up by himself not not us the guy who does it and they said they wouldn't change a thing. It was just absolutely perfect. That's amazing.

30:21Micky Hazard:I tell you what, as a kind of response to this podcast, I bet we could probably fundraise enough to at least donate one bench. So I'm putting that on the listeners, right? If they don't do that, that's on them.

30:32Emma Adjei:And you can put music on the Timers Tribute. Amazing. I put Bournemouth.

30:39Josh James:Also, you can update it throughout the year. So like now it's Christmas, I've got no doubt. Trevor will go along to the Timeless Tribute and say Merry Christmas Chloe I hope you have a fantastic time at the early end so you can add to it all of the time and I'd miss it it's a constant birthday amazing so I've promised they will deliver

31:00Micky Hazard:I've got not a doubt they will absolutely Josh we are going to come on to you you haven't had really the opportunity to speak yet and not like that mate I've been enjoying listening so we're joined by Bobby one of our callers on the show today thanks so much for taking the time to share your story with us. As important as your story is the fact that you have a massive contribution to the atmosphere at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. Is that fair?

31:26Trevor Bygate:Yeah, I'll take that. It is fair, yeah. And it's linked into my story. It's been a very surreal two years plus, really. It's been a mad in a good way and also a bad way a few years. But the best bits about it is the fact that replying to a tweet asking for a backup drummer two years ago because I used to drum at non-league Tunbridge Angels who were linked into my story to do football as well meant that within a year I was the drummer of Tottenham and my first year was this last season. So I ended up front row in Bilbao drumming away as we won European glory.

32:06Micky Hazard:And people, sorry to cut you there, Bob. A lot of people will remember an iconic image of Bobby with his hands up and in front of him is Richarlison who's now playing his drum in celebration of Spurs winning the cup in Bilbao. Now, what's mental about this is I was speaking to Bobby a couple of days ago and I looked at his WhatsApp picture, his profile, I've clicked on it and my nephew is just behind Bobby. His name is also Bobby. Wow. Which is a wonderful thing. That's incredible. It is. I was like, there's Bobby. with Bobby and Richarlison. And we've won the Europa League. Insane. So go on, go on then.

32:47Micky Hazard:Take the floor's yours, Bobby. Tell us your story.

32:50Trevor Bygate:Well, what it is really is as condensed as possible is that I'm a, I like to see myself as a normal guy as I can be and I've grown up, you know, not a rich family, not a poor family. I've got a very, done well. I've got a house and season ticket Spurs now and drummer and, and and and I had a lot of pressures a lot of things happen in my life one by one that that built up it's the first time other than within my own support group and therapy that I've talked about it so it's it's quite emotional really um to do it and the whole purpose of me saying this is is that it's linked the good parts of of of my life over the last two years have been in football and then it got to the point where the only thing that I looked forward to was football and I had some really emotional moments at football whilst social media was growing.

33:42Trevor Bygate:Paul Bell happened. I was getting praise for drumming. I was getting lots of Spurs fans starting to know me and lots of love. And yet, personally, outside of Tottenham, I was slowly more and more getting what I would say mental health was deteriorating and starting to not see a way out. And if saying sort of briefly what happened to me and that I'm here and on a very good path to being back to how I was before everything started to happen. If anyone could listen to this and talk, I had so many regrets over the last 10 years, little things that had gone wrong and that I put down to my own doing and that all built up.

34:28Trevor Bygate:And yet now my only regret is that after I have talked and I got forced to talk through something that happened, And I only wish that I talked sooner. And I had so many opportunities to. I just didn't think my problem was worth hearing or I didn't think it was a big enough problem. I didn't realize, I know it sounds silly, I didn't realize that the Samaritans was anonymous. And I know that sounds silly because I know it and I used to know it. But in that moment, when you got there, I just didn't think of that. And I had this fear of not being able to talk because then it would become public that I then, you know, I had these thoughts and these issues and I might get, you know, doctors might suddenly go on record and suddenly think that I'm, what I would say, a real reason of mental health, but, you know, it's got stigma, isn't it?

35:15Trevor Bygate:And so, as I say, my only regret now is I didn't talk sooner. And so if anyone's listened to this and feels how I feel with the little bits that I'll say, please talk because people do want to listen. And something you asked, someone asked earlier, I can't remember which one of you asked, but Emma, you answered. I ended up having to speak to a loved one and I say having to speak to it's because I effectively went missing for an evening because I wanted I got to the point where I wanted my life to end I just didn't know what to do and I didn't I didn't know how and it ended up being a bit of call for help um and and what my best one of my best friends she was really worried about me and she she called the police um and they found me and I was just walking around that happening forced me to talk and I sat down and said everything to her and she knew some things and she didn't know everything I by coincidence had been texting my sister who I've always been really close with but through things in her life happening over the last few years we we she's got kids that have got real illnesses and I didn't see my problems as big compared to the fact that she's got children that have got these illnesses right so I didn't think that I didn't think that she'd almost be worried you know not worried but I didn't want to be a burden on her um and so when I was talking to my sister she said a few things when I got back home and once the police knew that I was like really you know they'd asked me and they could see I was like okay it was almost just like a call for help I presumed that my sister had been told and so I then mentioned the police in a text and she was like what what's happened and so then I realized that she didn't know so I asked my friend I said can you tell my sister and and and I'd already told my friend everything so I didn't want to go and then she told my sister everything and my sister then who was the loved one close to me and my friend as well they I no judgment like just wanted to give me a big hug wanted to give me love and just everything's going to be okay and from someone that has very recently in the last year spoken to a loved friend and a loved one in my sister and they've been the ones that I've been able to tell the fact that they responded just naturally and just with care and with love was what I was fearful of when I was in that moment and and I feel almost guilty now because I've got loved ones I've got family and especially being in a room with people that love just happened to loved ones like like you you just in that moment you you don't no matter how much you feel loved you you just you almost don't want to be a burden you don't want to speak about it and you can't see any any way out of it if that makes sense and and I appreciate mine was almost a call for help rather than I actually did something and I feel very lucky but it is such a such a it's hard to explain really but i just i just hope that people don't have to to just just talk basically talk because i didn't talk soon enough i'm still here so i i i'm so lucky that i ended up being able to often people don't think that there is a an opportunity

38:27Micky Hazard:or see the value of that open communication, that minute where you start to open up and talk to someone, whether it be a loved one or someone who works in the industry, like the Samaritans, where they're able to listen and you're able to start to get it off your chest and start that process to heal. And luckily, how long was this period? Is it over a couple of years? or it built up so there was things that were deteriorating that i then

39:00Trevor Bygate:like i was slowly sort of building up more and more and i didn't realize and then it was i'd say probably about i know nine months to then got to the point where i was in a real low price really depressed and that would have been february march this year and then And then I talked for a bit because I go to the Tunbridge Angels when I can as well. And the Tunbridge Angels has got a club chaplain and he is very good at reaching out to people. And he reached out to me because he could tell something was up. And so I had the opportunities to talk. But I just, I told little bits. I didn't just sit down and say, everything's happened and I can't see a way out.

39:46Trevor Bygate:and the only thought process that I had at the time that sounds really, I actually always feel guilty saying it with people sat in the room that obviously the family and what's happened, but the only thought process that I had that almost brought happiness was just everything stopping. And that I just, if had I said that sooner, and and I just think it I just I know that there's people out there that will feel the same that I didn't and just once you do talk it's amazing how quickly things can change and then you've got to go on the path of recovery but it you don't look back and you look you get the help and the help is there um and so yeah that's that's that I'd say I'd say about two years but about six months where I was in that real depression where I had any point I talked in that six months, then I think it would have helped me sooner.

40:47Micky Hazard:Bob, thank you so much for sharing this story, mate. Thank you very much. Josh, are you the same?

40:51Trevor Bygate:Yeah, I was just going to say, I can relate a lot to that, actually. Listening to so many things there, especially when you mentioned when you said, I suppose from the outset, you're talking about drumming over spurs and from the outset, things looked good, didn't they? But internally, they weren't right. I can definitely relate to that in terms of the periods in my life where things look like they're going well. But if my head's not right, then things are just, those things are, you know, materialistic things or success in work. It sort of doesn't matter, you know what I mean? And yeah, talking does take the power out of things.

41:26Trevor Bygate:I don't think, you know, what you said there, I know you said obviously there's people in the room that have had people that have, you know, lost loved ones. but I was in a similar situation to you, really, probably about eight years ago. I can totally...

41:42Josh James:Have you ever spoke about them before?

41:44Trevor Bygate:Have I ever spoke? Or is this the first time? Have I ever spoke about them? Yeah. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, it's probably one of the reasons why I'm doing this today, really, is because to give us that back to Samaritans, you know, because I had a period in my life in my 20s where I couldn't see any way out. You know, I couldn't get a break. Financially, I found things really difficult. I just resigned myself. I was a failure, really. That was a loser. That was going nowhere in life, you know. And I thought probably the best thing to do would be to end it all, really. But it's thanks to calling up Samaritans on probably two or three occasions, them not wanting anything from me, no money, no commitment, nothing, and just listening to it was a bit of a turning point.

42:32Trevor Bygate:And, yeah, if you talk, it does take the power out of things. And back then, like you, Bobby, back in probably like February, March time, I thought it was the end. But I'm so glad that it wasn't. I'm so glad I did reach out to people. I seeked help. I believed that maybe I could have a better life, you know, that one day I could get rid of this darkness in my head. I'm really glad that it didn't end there because actually looking back now, where I'm at at the moment. I've got an amazing family, got a beautiful wife, two beautiful kids. I'm working in a job that I absolutely love doing. And I'm a Spurs' training ground, you know, so I suppose...

43:17Trevor Bygate:And now? And now I've realised back then my life hadn't even begun, you know, so I'm so glad that I didn't make that decision. But it's interesting what you say there, Bobby, about you didn't want to burden people. I find this is a big thing as well when I talk to other blokes about this I don't want to burden people around them and I can't speak highly enough about Samaritans because okay I think really if you share with someone close how you're feeling they'll always care, they'll always have time and actually they'll always have time for you but there are neutral people like people at Samaritans that are there to help

43:53Josh James:So just to go back a bit and touch on what he said So the last text message that my nephew sent to his mum and dad and his brother, it said, Mum, Dad, Lewis, I know you're going to be broken hearted. But when you get over this, you realise that life is so much better without me. Now, the message that we need to get out to people, life will never be better without you. you are loved more than you will ever know and while we might not always say it because that's just simply life um you don't feel the need to have to say it every day maybe we should um but life will never ever ever be better without them and that's the message we need to portray to the people who are in this um mental health um problems we need to portray that to them yeah i

44:54Micky Hazard:In my previous job, I worked for a youth media organisation and we did a lot of work in prevention of male suicide specifically because there was an issue with how young men and their inability to communicate leads to big problems. And often a piece of the work that I did was to go and visit families of people who were grieving families who have lost their children like Jay. And often that would come through. They felt like they were a burden on other people or their problems weren't worth hearing. And when you were just talking there, Josh, I think when you're, you know, as a man, sometimes, you think your role is to take care of and provide.

45:38Trevor Bygate:Provide, yeah, and to, exactly that. Don't add problem. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's the thing of all this sort of rubbish around masculinity and what it means and all that. And I suppose if you're brought up in, Especially if you come from maybe a family that's into the football and stuff like that. You might have had the upbringing of, okay, what a man provides. He's the rock, you know. I mean, growing up, I love my dad. I can't ever imagine. I couldn't, I'd never seen him upset. The only two emotions was happy or probably, you know, being irate, really. there was is not you know i think i think men have struggled for years to to really show any other two

46:25Josh James:two two emotions you know upbringing though from day one what brought up to be leaders uh to the breadwinners or such changing today of course but but throughout our young lives certainly in my time i'm a lot older than you guys um in my time i was brought up to be the sort of breadwinner the the tough guy of the family you know i was the the man's man i was the eldest man and so it's support partly responsible for the way men think of course is our upbringing yeah and i guess it's

46:57Micky Hazard:like three and four suicides i don't know if the statistic is still correct is it are men so that berries probably hang over from this uh josh you i just want to talk to you about your comedy right because you're two things i wanted to say actually i had no idea that you contacted samarins yeah so you popped into my head when I was talking about doing this show and I think for some reason I think Joshua because we've spoken twice maybe in our entire lives once on the phone yeah it was a good guess and a podger and when you said that I was like I had no idea that you were going to say yeah which is amazing

47:26Trevor Bygate:yeah I mean back in my that's why I was so keen to do it to be honest I mean I've been a lifelong Spurs fan yeah and it's nice to come and see the big shiny training ground and whatever but I owe so much to places like Samaritans I also owe a great deal to support networks out there like AA and CA and places like that. They've really helped me on my journey. You know, my 20s was a real, yeah, it was, you know, people go, 20s, some people say 20s are the best years of your life. For me, it was really hard. It was really hard. And it was just, yeah, I was just in a real hole that I couldn't really get out of, you know.

48:19Micky Hazard:20s were my difficult. I found 20s really difficult. You're sort of transcending between adolescence into adulthood, not knowing where you're going to go. And my biggest struggles with anxiety came in those periods. I remember once going over Spurs with my old man and my brothers, which was like my favourite thing to do in the world. We'd go in the pub, have a few beers, talk about the game, hopefully it goes well. And I remember just being gripped by this fear. I just couldn't explain having a massive panic attack in this pub that should have been the safest place on earth. And I just had to...

48:52Josh James:So now that you're older and wiser and more aware of what's going on, what do you link it to? That happening then, what do you link it to now?

49:01Micky Hazard:I think it was something, I don't know because I didn't talk. I just dealt with it, shoved it down. And only as a four-year-old man now I can easily just talk about it. But I was ashamed. I felt weak that I was in that pub and I couldn't hold myself together. That's what I felt for a long time. And so I never did the proper work to figure out what it was. I just felt very uncomfortable in my 20s. I didn't really know what to do or what my role was. and I struggled and that was a moment that I remember that was especially difficult that didn't actually happen again and I don't even know where it came from just now actually

49:43Emma Adjei:I think for me though because I joined the army at 19 so you have to be when we talk about masculinity you have to be masculine you have to have resilience you have to be able to push on crack on they say and stuff you know when we talk about resilience it's about when it gets hard you push that bit harder and now I will encourage people that you can be too resilient there is times in life where you have to turn around and say oh I don't mean I need to take a step back yeah and we need to encourage that in in all walks of life that you know if you're struggling you know it's all right I think I

50:23Trevor Bygate:I think that's when things turned around for me, really, when I used this word surrender, but I sort of surrendered to my car. I can't do this on my own. Yeah. And these, you know, these bad thoughts that are at the door, I can't manage them on my own, you know what I mean?

50:38Micky Hazard:Josh, your career's, you know, you're doing well at the moment. Everything you seem to be doing, you watch the tour that sold out. You managed to go back home and play a gig that you always wanted to play at.

50:49Trevor Bygate:Queen's Theatre in Aung Chur, West Ham, Patriot, unfortunately.

50:54Micky Hazard:And everything's, you know, it seems like you're doing fantastically well. But as always, yeah, you are. I mean, that's very humble of you, but it is going more than a riot. But how closely is sort of comedy linked to sort of trauma? And how does the process of writing as a comedian help to process that? Is there any link at all, is it?

51:14Trevor Bygate:Yeah, it's probably not the healthiest thing. But when something goes a little bit wrong in my life, I think, oh, this is eventually going to be quite fun. No. because I find a lot of my comedy in the tough times, you know, because humour and laughter is, for me anyway, and I would recommend it to other people, but it's a great coping mechanism. I like that.

51:40Josh James:That's good.

51:41Trevor Bygate:And it is, you know, and it's not to say that, it's not about trivialising, I can never say that word properly, trivialising, like the situation that you're going through, but I've found that if you can find humour in dark times it gives you a little lift and it won't necessarily uh sort out the situation but if you can get enough of those little lifts and you can keep finding the laughter and the humour in certain situations when you know things are against you then eventually time's the healer isn't it you find enough of those little lifts and it gets you through and then you look back and you go oh I've through that now you know um really good it's

52:18Josh James:really really good i like that one of the best quotes that i ever heard or or read um was whether you're you're up there or whether you're down now is to just think this too shall pass yeah because when you're riding high exactly that it passes by when you're riding low it passes and

52:40Trevor Bygate:an emotion motions are temporary unfortunately good and bad exactly you know the trouble is is when you're feeling down you can't really see the wood from the trees so even if it's a day or if it's been multiple months even if you're having a year of it you know it you if you do the right things it it can you know you can it is temporary you can move on from them you know i think laughter

53:03Emma Adjei:is and comedy and everything is one of the best things because when you for me when i when you lose a child, you think you will never laugh again. You can never smile again. And now I speak to people and I'll say, when was the last time you laughed out loud? What made you laugh out loud? And how did that? That's true, but that's a big guy's boy.

53:25Trevor Bygate:Don't come watch one of my shows, did you?

53:30Emma Adjei:Am I allowed to say I'm on Middlesbrough Farm? Yes, on here. So I'm on Middlesbrough Farm.

53:37Trevor Bygate:I know I shouldn't take this to the Spurs training ground, but as Tottenham fans, you've got to have a good sense of your life.

53:45Micky Hazard:I still think you're the best, the most well-rounded the end beings on earth, are you?

53:50Trevor Bygate:Absolutely. Well, listen, that's where I went to school in Hornchurch in the big West Ham area. And I think that's a lot where my sense of humour come from. We're one of the only Spurs fans in the school.

53:59Josh James:At least you've got to laugh at them.

54:00Micky Hazard:We've got to move on to our second caller. Tom and Lauren. Tom and Lauren. Hello, guys. How are you doing?

54:09Emma Adjei:hi guys uh lovely to be here thanks for having us no no thanks for messaging in and making

54:15Micky Hazard:contact it was uh it was it was important um and i really like your top both tops actually um so how do you want to start who wants to talk who tell us your story um well yeah i i sent in

54:31Emma Adjei:the initial email so um i'll take it so um my story our story um sadly something that's very far from unique uh we lost our dad very stubborn to cancer in the slumber of 2024 um he was 59 fit as a fiddle um planning on the time and a couple of months time spend time with his grandson my little boy who was born about six months earlier um and one day just started to feel a little pain in the side um as he was laying the patio uh he thought nothing of it assumed he'd overstretched for a slab or something like that and then a couple of weeks later the pain was still there and he was getting a little bit sharper he struggled with kidney stones in the past and thought the pain was a bit similar to that so before he'd get to the doctor just to see what they said.

55:31Emma Adjei:They said, yeah, it sounds like a cool stone. We'll run some checks and come up with a plan to get rid of them. While they were waiting for the results, the pain was getting a little bit harsh up to the point that we took him up to the hospital just to try and find out what was going on. And they escalated the checks. and we found out sadly when they when they looked at the results that far from being gallstones uh i'm not i'm not medically trained uh but basically the the bottom half of his top half was just full of cancer and uh there was no time left to do anything about it sadly they said you know best case scenario you might have months worst case you could be looking at days and we got about three weeks and then sadly he left us and it's just the memory of that day seeking our room where the doctor's selling us it's time stands still it's just a strange feeling the you know I think when when you see it on film or TV shows that they sort of hang to that camera angle of the camera staring up at her face and you know everything there's just a hum in the air and you're not taking stuff in it's odd how true that is you just genuinely the leaky body and five minutes takes ten hours and you just nothing will ever

57:30Emma Adjei:take that memory away you're being told your best man's leaving you and such a keen part of my relationship with Lauren than with Dad was mid football and Spurs. And one of the things that Dad made us promise before we've asked was that come what may, you've got to carry on following Spurs. And so thanks for that, Dad.

58:07Emma Adjei:And initially, you know, we still tried to do everything that we used to do before bed. The patio I was talking about a couple of minutes ago was the patio he was building in front of his home pub that he'd set up for the three of us to be able to watch the game. He told my mates for hosting some of the barbecues and stuff, but it was really for the three of us for the football. So we'd carry on getting together, it, watch the matches, we'd send the Twitter news to each other. The things we'd always done, but you know, it was, things weren't the same. There was still this gaping void in the experience from not having him there as part of it.

58:59Emma Adjei:And so we carry on doing it. We try and trip back to the grounds in the start of December I think it was the Fulham game. and that was all a bit too much for both of us, I think, and we took a step back from that for a little while. That was too difficult to go through. And sort of as the season went on, my memory went back to a week before that day at the Dobs. Me and my old man went to Wembley. We went to a Seabree Springs swim. and as we were walking up from the box park up Wembley Way, the whole way out there talking about all the quarter cup finals it's in Spurs play at Wembley. And he uttered the line that stuck with me, which was, we're going to win something this year.

1:00:02Emma Adjei:And it's sort of almost a cruel irony, cruelly flunny looking back you know somehow or some way we wrote and

1:00:18Emma Adjei:because I was born in 91 you were 94 so you know in a nice way that's been a pretty barren patch for trophy success so we'd had a couple of league cups we'd had a Champions League run we'd had a tilt with a title but we'd never got to experience that big one with dad so from that day I just knew we were going to be winning it that year and so while all you lot were panicking and stressing on your sofas in March April, May you know, in some ways we had it better because we knew we were winning it so

1:01:10Emma Adjei:so yeah and you know, over time we've started to enjoy the football experience again it's not the same it's different but we're navigating our way through it still and you know I think if I can give any message to people out there, the reason I'm contacted is that I know there's going to be thousands of people out there who are far earlier in the journey than we are. And, you know, I'd be lying if I said it gets easier. Easy is a funny concept. It gets different. you you the black cloud's still there but the initially and it goes back to what you guys was named a little while ago you have to you have to remember how to laugh you have to remember how to smile and initially you almost feel guilty and feel angry yourself for being happy or you know having that thing that makes you laugh and over time you start to remember the good times that you spent with them and that they're not they're not negative memories it's you know god i miss but they're positive memories of god on the seats they the things that used to make you laugh make you laugh again the things that make you smile make you smile again and the if i've learned anything you know i've been very fortunate that i've got a good family support network around me smoking is so important you know you have to that the strongest thing you can do is admit that you need to talk to someone it's not weak it's so far from weak it's the strongest thing you can do um and yeah i think that's that's our that's our story thank you so much for sharing and it's when

1:03:30Micky Hazard:you're talking about this obviously i've got an old man and and you know he's we're going to the West Ham game together in a couple of weeks and I can't imagine what it might be like not to go to the Spurs stadium without him because he's been the one that's taken me since I was four years old was my first game Jamie you might have played in actually Mickey. Thanks Flav It was a League Cup game in 1954 85 it was so you definitely not always play so thank you so much for sharing and I know this is to be a fact because I've spent so much time talking to people through the last 14-15 years of doing the podcast is the amount of people that contact us in your exact same situation um who found it difficult to go back but they did go back and they did they did they were able to rekindle the

1:04:24Trevor Bygate:relationship with the stadium and and all the I think it becomes a point of where it first it's so painfully and you think you're never going to be able to enjoy that again it actually brings you that connection back with them so where it feels like it's like wading through something that's treacle and you're never going to get there it does get to that point where you can actually find that real connection again so that there is that hope that comes back and it goes into that enjoyment again of of looking at actually you know the songs when you first hear them it's painful but then it becomes a point of actually it makes you smile and then the same with the games I mean not that they always make you smile but being there is something that that can make you feel really connected again.

1:05:06Micky Hazard:The club did an amazing bit of work last year. It featured your father, didn't they?

1:05:10Emma Adjei:They did. The In Memoriam video, it was a fantastic project. They've set up and I do hope they're planning on continuing it. Don't get me wrong, when I saw my old man up, I bawled my eyes out. It wasn't a happy, happy moment, but now it's a very happy moment. see you know having that demory of you know seeing my i was gonna say guys i read your story on the

1:05:37Micky Hazard:way on the train and down here and i i can't i can categorically say that i had a tear in my eye and i'm so glad i had read it before listening to your story then because i'm not sure i've been able to keep it together thank you so much for sharing your story with us we're gonna move on to the third call if that's okay just in hello jamie how you doing Hello mate, how are you doing? All right? Yeah, not too bad. Where are you in the world? Are you in London? Where are we?

1:06:07Emma Adjei:No, I live in Newport in South Wales, so I have a nice two-hour jaunt over to the Tottenham Oxford Stadium every Sunday.

1:06:13Micky Hazard:I know someone who lives in Cornwall, who has a season ticket at Spurs. I complain about getting in from Wiltshire, and he goes home and away from Cornwall.

1:06:23Trevor Bygate:He should move. Just in Edinburgh. Just Edinburgh used to manage Newport County. Did he really? Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did. Did you know Justin? I knew Justin. Yeah, on his birthday today, actually. Wow. Yeah. Okay, he would have been 56 today. 56, yeah. Yeah, 56 today. But yeah, he had some, I think he had some, I think he won something with Newport County, or promotion, something like that. How well did you know?

1:06:44Micky Hazard:Yeah, very well, I'm your friend, you know. Good lad. Good lad. And what shirt that is?

1:06:49Emma Adjei:I'm at bottom of League Two now, so. Not necessarily. What shirt that is as well? I always wear a different Spurs shirt to work every day. Do you really? Yeah.

1:07:01Micky Hazard:I remember the worst. It's such a sort of Tottenham thing because when I look at that shirt I remember being 4-1 down to Villa and then singing happy birthday to you. So it was... Didn't we? Yeah, we did pull it back. Yeah, 4-1. So it's all good. Yeah, correct. Okay, mate. So tell us your story.

1:07:19Emma Adjei:Yeah, thanks, mate. So, yeah, about 9-1. Yeah, it was 8 years ago. Now, my wife was pregnant. We were expecting our firstborn son and yeah, everything was going relatively well. And then one day we went to the zoo with a couple of friends and she didn't feel any sort of movements or anything like that. So we went to the hospital after a while because we were a little bit obviously concerned. and then we went in and the first person did the scans, couldn't find a heartbeat, and the way that they have to confirm things is then a sort of second opinion. So then we had to wait, I think it was like two, three hours for another doctor to come along and do the scan and tell us at that point what we'd obviously already concluded, that he was gone.

1:08:16Emma Adjei:so it was a bit it was a bit of a bit of a weird time being in the hospital but usually they sort of kickstart the progress of the baby being born but because my wife's blood pressure spiked we stayed in hospital for the next couple of days and then eventually Jay was sort of born but then my my wife's placenta over the days had sort of broken down so when when the when jay was born placenta didn't really come with it so then all of a sudden she was whisked off and i'm left holding uh jay was obviously you know still born at 26 weeks with my wife not around potentially not coming back which was a pretty uh position i never expected to be in the sort of past 24 weeks and thought baby survival now all good um and yeah obviously it's loads of people in sort of similar situation that uh unfortunately isn't isn't the case that i naively thought it would be um but yeah luckily my wife you know came back around she was okay um and then we got to spend a couple of days in the hospital they have like in in certain hospitals i have uh working with various charities uh what they call like a butterfly suite so it's like a bed it's designed probably not quite as nicely as you are there at the top and hospital training ground but it was decorated quite nicely for a hospital room it was like you know purple butterflies proper bedding all of that kind of stuff so we got to actually spend a couple of days um with jay and his uh sort of cold cot and we could you know bring things in i could take some photos and things like that which i've got and can still hold on to uh to this day um which was yeah which is great and i'm so happy that i can you know look back on those moments now uh and be happy but after we sort of you know got through all of the process got back to work and um my wife and i were by each other's sides but we process things really differently like she internalizes quite a lot whereas I can be quite an outgoing kind of person, extrovert, and try and, you know, I have to talk everything through.

1:10:33Emma Adjei:And so I was conscious of the fact that she wanted to internalize and write a lot of stuff, so I didn't, I think has been expressed, I didn't really want to burden her with needing to speak. So I, yeah, as I guess a lot of men do, try and quash it down and be the strong alpha male and not worry about vocalizing my thoughts and how I was able to process it. And so, yeah, I was getting loads of those dark thoughts as people were mentioning earlier, but not to the point where I thought I wanted to end it all, but more everything was gray and dull and I couldn't really feel anything. Everything was all sort of numb.

1:11:16Emma Adjei:and it was through talking with charities like Samaritans and I was using Calm's web chat quite a bit so I could just sit there think about it type my thoughts down as well which was really useful and they sort of helped me work through all of that and process that kind of stuff so they were really helpful in yeah allowing me the space as I think they mentioned to talk and give me that outlet to talk to you know people that would listen to me and help me process the emotions that I was feeling because there was you know a lot sort of going on and then it enabled me to sort of put yardsticks in place throughout throughout that time to to get through the process and uh we I was you know with it being a son I was very excited for him to you know me to burdened him with the love of Spurs like my dad did to me and so we then had the Champions League game I can remember it was at Wembley PSV and Luke De Jong scored a header two minutes in and I was just like a typical Spurs of you know come here it's supposed to be a great night I cried when the Champions League music came on I'm like and we were 1-0 down luckily Harry Kane got the double to sort of save the night and then yeah the season was amazing until that final which yeah just felt like the most surreal kind of year being in a Turkish bar watching the Ajax comeback and all sorts of amazing things which got me through but then we had my we got pregnant pretty quickly afterwards in the December straight after we were pregnant again so that whole time it's just I was like fracked with having to you know now worry about every little you know possible thing that could go wrong and yeah until until Alfie was then um born it was just yeah wholly stressful and then it was it was weird because then I was so happy that we had Alfie but then uh it was like I was like doing things and I was like I should have already done this with Jay like I should already be I've changed nappies and so like all of those milestones come up and you think we should you know we should have already done a nursery photo and all those kind of things and weirdly enough at that point it was Frozen 2 came out a couple of months after he was born and Anna and it sings do the next right thing and so that's how I just got around to like all I can do is the next right thing in this moment I can't help how I feel and it's okay to feel upset but the next right thing i need to do is is this and help give me like a focal point to move forward uh throughout throughout you know days even then when i was feeling dark about you know being happy about having alfie but then still sad and you know trying to balance all of those kind of things and yeah again i could reach out and talk to the charities they've sort of already been mentioned and then yeah helping process all of these new kind of feelings and like yeah as i think there's a previous caller mentioned like the dark clouds are still there but like there's you get a lot more light and you can laugh again and you can enjoy various different things that in those moments you don't really feel like you can ever ever get back to like how you know i've been through this horrible thing how can i ever how can i ever laugh or enjoy anything ever again and and a lot of these things we're talking about like you know big losses really traumatic events but even like all problems are relative to everybody's situation so it could be even a lot of small things that you think is nothing like everybody else will think is you're being silly and there's nothing but actually like loads of people are experiencing those things and it's like really important to talk to people around you even yeah talk anonymously if you don't want uh to you know burden those closest to you but there are people there that will listen and help you through.

1:15:22Emma Adjei:And now, yeah, what am I? So you saw my eight years on and Tottenham still put me through the same stress.

1:15:31Micky Hazard:I thought what was incredible there is you found a mechanism for a Frozen song to apply to your own life and actually put it into practice and really help. And that is an amazing...

1:15:40Emma Adjei:Yeah, I know, right? It's probably, again, not the manliest thing I can refer back. It's one of the greatest things I've ever heard. I've enjoyed Frozen.

1:15:47Micky Hazard:That is incredible. so thank you so much for sending in or applying to come in and taking the time to speak to us, there's an amazing story and lots to be taken from so thank you mate and I wish you all the happiness in the future and every Spurs win should be celebrated and enjoyed by all of us guys I want to say thank you to all of you, Mickey Hazard Emma from the Samaritans Trevor thank you so much for sharing with us and Josh you've been legends, this has been a very special episode of the podcast and um i just want to say thank you to tottenham for allowing us to come in and do it and remember if you're going through anything the samaritans helpline is 116123 and if you're going to the spurs on match days minding harringay staff or in attendance in every home game you can whatsapp them on 07 399 928 274 and you can meet with them on the day thank you very much good energy in good energy out

1:16:52Micky Hazard:storm zero sugar 200 milligrams of caffeine and immunity support storm energy for life

1:17:00Josh James:by all lorenzo the pitch looked good yeah so green usa keeper was decent enough didn't have much to do. Ugh, 99 minutes.

1:17:11Trevor Bygate:Not a single goal. Well, Bet365 sure came through, though. I bet$10 and got$150 in bonus bets just for signing up. At least someone scored. Bet365. Winning is everything. Gambling problem?

1:17:24Micky Hazard:Call 1-800-GAMBLER. 21 plus only. Must be physically located in Illinois. T's and C's apply. In-app only.